January 19, 2025 • 51 mins
Uncover the transformative journey of Charlotte Brielle, the visionary founder and executive director of Wombs of the World. Charlotte's unique blend of anthropology, sociology, and passion for birth practices has sparked a global movement in maternal health. Her path from a curious child fascinated by birth to a full-spectrum doula has taken her across diverse cultural landscapes, from the vibrant communities in Costa Rica to the collaborative birth spaces of Asheville, North Carolina. By engaging with Charlotte's experiences, listeners will gain insights into the blend of traditional and modern birthing practices that empower women worldwide.
Experience the contrast between birthing practices in Tanzania and the United States as Charlotte shares compelling stories of resilience and community support in Tanzanian clinics. In these shared spaces, despite limited resources, the communal nature of childbirth shines through, offering a different perspective from the often-anxious environments seen in the U.S. Charlotte's work with Wombs of the World highlights how bridging cultural narratives can reshape maternal health experiences and outcomes, emphasizing the necessity for cultural competence and collaboration in this field.
Explore the systemic challenges and triumphs of revolutionizing global birth experiences with programs in Tanzania, Mexico, Ecuador, and South Africa. Charlotte discusses the critical issue of systemic racism and health disparities, particularly for Black American mothers, urging the birth work community to advocate for social justice. Wombs of the World not only connects birth workers with transformative experiences but also champions the preservation of traditional practices by linking passionate doulas with local experts. Join us in understanding how these immersive journeys cultivate a universal appreciation of birth that transcends cultural and linguistic barriers.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to the Maternal Wealth Podcast, a space
for all things related tomaternal health, pregnancy and
beyond.
I'm your host, stephanie Terrio.
I am a labor and delivery nurseand a mother to three beautiful
boys.
Each week, we dive intoinspiring stories and expert
insights to remind us of thepower that you hold in
childbirth and motherhood.
We're here to explore the joys,the challenges and the
(00:36):
complexities of maternal health.
Every mother's journey isunique and every story deserves
to be told.
Please note that this podcastis for entertainment purposes
only.
It is not intended to replaceprofessional medical advice,
diagnosis or treatment.
Always consult with yourhealthcare provider for medical
guidance that is tailored toyour specific needs.
(00:57):
Are you ready?
Let's get into it.
Good morning and welcome to theMaternal Wealth Podcast.
Today, we are excited to welcomeCharlotte Brielle.
She is the founder andexecutive director of Wombs of
(01:21):
the World.
This is a global initiativethat is dedicated to
transforming maternal health byintegrating modern birth
practices with the preservationand the celebration of
traditional birth cultures.
Since 2018, wombs of the Worldhas empowered birth workers
across the globe throughimmersive programs in Tanzania,
(01:43):
ecuador, south Africa and Mexico.
Charlotte is a full-spectrumdoula, a childbirth educator
with a master's degree inmaternal health, social work, as
well as an undergraduate degreein anthropology and sociology.
I'm excited for our listenersto hear more of this amazing
movement created by Charlotte tointertwine the sanctity of
(02:06):
birth across the globe.
Let's welcome Charlotte.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Brielle, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here withyou, and what a great
introduction.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Charlotte, that introduction is so well deserved
.
I'm so excited to chat with youtoday.
I would love to start bylearning more about who was
Charlotte before the wombs ofthe world.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I love that.
What a great starting question.
Well, charlotte has been.
I have been really obsessedwith babies since I was a baby.
My family did not know where Icame from.
I was that kid that would besix years old and go to the park
and end up coming home with abunch of toddlers and wanting to
feed them snacks and my momwould be like, do their parents
know where they are?
You know, so I've always had anaffinity for, specifically,
(02:51):
babies and you mentioned I gotmy undergrad in anthropology and
sociology, was super interestedin women's health, maternal
health, and when I was 19, Iwent to Costa Rica and I was
living on this organic farm.
I was woofing I don't know iffor your listeners it's
worldwide opportunities onorganic farms.
(03:13):
And so when I was 19, I waslike, what if the world ends?
I need to learn how topermaculture.
So I was at this farm in CostaRica and this woman was telling
me her birth story and Iremember being there like
sitting on the floor eating mybanana ice cream.
And she is telling me her birthstory via slam poetry and in
her birth she had a drum circleand she had this amazing home
birth and I just remembersitting on the floor and just
(03:34):
having my mind blown of, like,wait, birth can be like this.
And in her poem she talkedabout a doula.
And after her poem I was like,what's a doula?
And she told me and I knewright then.
And there I was like, oh, Iwant to do that someday.
But I think, like a lot ofdoulas, I was under the
impression that I needed toexperience motherhood first,
experience birth myself, beforeI would be able to share that
(03:54):
space.
And so I was patiently waiting,carolina in Asheville
specifically, and I was workingwith my dad in the antique space
.
My dad is an antique dealer andI was working with him and I
met this pregnant woman.
She came into the store and mydad was like my daughter loves
pregnant people and I was like,maybe we don't say that to
people, dad, but she had justmoved to Asheville from Berkeley
(04:19):
, california, and she had been adoula out there and I was like,
oh, I've always wanted to dothat.
And she's like, well, go do it.
Go do it, because do it now,before you have kids, because
once you have kids it's a wholelot harder to be on call.
So that was my journey intobirth work in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
What did the transition look like for you
into becoming a doula?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, luckily, I was at the time and this was in 2017
.
I was living in Asheville,north Carolina, and it is such a
hub for birth workers.
It's also a hub for any kind ofhealer.
You know, I kind of joke of you.
You throw a rock and you hit ayoga instructor, a Reiki master,
a chiropractor and a doula allwith the same stone, you know,
and probably an astrologistmixed in there too.
(04:59):
It's a great place and Ienrolled in a training and I
remember sitting there myamazing instructor at the time,
kama Wadak, was my instructorand I was just so mind blown in
the way of like how is this notcommon knowledge?
How is this not commonknowledge?
(05:19):
And I remember sitting there soexcited about launching into my
career as a doula and then alsofeeling in myself like I want
to do what she's doing.
I want to inspire this room,this room, about like, what is
possible and what birth can belike and how birth can be
healing, birth can be empowering, and not this depiction of you
know what we've seen in themedia for decades now of this
emergency situation and you'rerushed into the hospital and
(05:41):
everybody's screaming and bam, ababy.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So you're a doula working in the United States.
How did this transition into aglobal project?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Well, it actually started.
The wombs of the world startedcreated itself.
It happened very quickly.
So I did my training inSeptember, in September of 2017.
And there was another woman inmy training who, like me, was a
very avid traveler, had livedinternationally and we were both
seeking experience.
And you can't just kind of showup at a hospital in the States
(06:11):
and be like, hi, can I volunteeras a doula just to get some of
that hands-on experience.
And so she had connected with aCanadian midwife that was
living in Tanzania through arandom Google search so you know
, shooting our shot.
And this midwife in Tanzaniawas like come over here and I'll
get you set up.
And she and her husband at thetime had this tourism company,
so they were used to hostingpeople, not so much doulas
(06:34):
wanting to work in a clinicalsetting, but they kind of held
our hand in getting there andgetting us set up with a
homestay experience.
So between my training andbeing in Tanzania, I had only
attended one birth in the US.
So I was a brand new baby doulaand I do.
For the audience listening, Ijust want to be very intentional
(06:55):
by saying that before going toTanzania that first time, as I
call myself a brand new babydoula.
I was so aware of my scope ofpractice and I was also so aware
of the privilege of being aWestern woman traveling to
Tanzania and having theseclinical doors open for me, like
that's not something that weget to experience in the Western
world.
(07:15):
And so I went into it with thistremendous amount of mindfulness
of wanting to to just reallyrespect my scope of practice, to
support birth, to witness birth, to not overstep, to not
pretend that I was anything thatI wasn't.
And I say that now because whenwe created Wombs of the World,
those are also very intentional,because the clinics there don't
know what doulas do.
(07:36):
They don't know our scope ofpractice and so regularly when
we're there and I know I'mjumping ahead, but when we're
there we are the ones that haveto respect our scope.
So I ended up in Tanzania onlya few months after that initial
training and within 10 days,witnessed over 30 births and all
kinds of birth breech birth,twin birth, stillbirth, cesarean
birth I mean all kinds of birth.
And I came home from that and Iwas like cool, I'm ready to get
(07:57):
to work, let's do this.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
We pause this episode for a quick message from our
sponsor.
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plus inclusivity, languageoptions, access to vaginal
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In this course, I discuss thevariations that exist in
(09:21):
hospital practices based onpolicies, staffing and budgets,
all of which can directly affectyour birth experience and
outcome.
What does birth look like forthe woman of Tanzania?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
So the clinic at the time that I was volunteering in
is a local government fundedhospital, and so it had no bells
or whistles to it, and one ofmy takeaways at the time and I
always have to kind of travelback in time because now I've
been so many times I have a hardtime remembering that initial
(09:55):
feeling.
So okay, so the layout of theclinics, and so this doesn't
just apply to this one All theclinics I've ever visited there
all have this similar setupwhere there's one big communal
room that's the labor room andalso the postpartum room, and
oftentimes these clinics kind ofhave their postpartum rooms
divvied up between cesareanrecovery and vaginal recovery,
(10:16):
but the people that are in thevaginal recovery area they also
are laboring in that room.
So there's one big room and inthat that room there are usually
like maybe 15 beds, and so thatmeans that there's 15 moms and
15 babies in that room at alltimes, unless it's slow, and
then there's less, or if there'smore, they sometimes will put
two moms in one bed.
So there's very, very littleresources, and then when a mom
(10:40):
is like feeling like she's maybeready to push, or if she gets
checked and she's and she's pastthe eight centimeter mark, they
keep her in a different roomand that's the pushing room, and
that room does not have thecommunity feel that the other
room does.
And so the labor room in thepostpartum room is full of
family members and it's mostlywomen and I love that, I love
this sense of community and youdon't know like which
(11:01):
grandmother belongs to whichbaby, because they're all
helping everybody out.
And there's, you know, thegrandmothers outside that are
trading chickens for the soupthat they're making in the
communal kitchen, which isessentially just like a room
that has a fire pit in it andthey bring their own pots and
pans and it just has this reallyamazing community feel.
And also there's no resources.
This particular clinic doesn'teven have running water.
(11:23):
You know you want to take thatpostpartum shower.
You can't, you have to waituntil you're home.
So really just stripping awayany of the resources that we
would be used to in birth andyou get these women and they
show up with so much courage andstrength and they have such a
different approach to the mentalheadspace of birth because,
(11:43):
just because the narrativearound birth is so different.
So I feel like in the US, frommy observation as a birth worker
there's.
We have so much mental anxietybefore giving birth, there's so
much, and pregnant people get somuch unsolicited advice all the
time and then these women likethey show up in the birth.
So once they go back to thatpushing room and in the
backspace they are very muchalone.
(12:05):
Sometimes, if someone's neededa mom can be back there with
them, but most of the timethey're alone and the nursing
staff is firm and sometimesthat's really hard for us to
witness just how harsh thingscan be and also how outdated
things can be.
So there's also routineprotocol in those clinics that
(12:27):
we would consider outdated.
For instance, they are allbirthing on their backs, knees
bent, holding on to their ankles.
That is the position that theyare to birth in and routine
episiotomies another example ofjust things that are routine
protocol.
So when we're there asparticipants with Wombs of the
World, we're really good atbeing like oh no, no, she's
doing great.
How about we just put her onher side?
(12:48):
You know, we've like learnedways of communicating really
effective strategies for birthand that's like the magic of
what doulas do we get to do that?
I'm getting ahead of myself andwanting to tell you more about
the programs, but did thatanswer your question?
Yes, you did, thank you.
(13:28):
Who is generally attending thetwo days to go back to Tanzania?
And there are a few nurses thatare amazing, like labor and
delivery nurse midwives, andthey hold it down.
But besides that, there's thisreally healthy rotation that
comes through, which is a goodand a bad thing because, as we
know, some people are sopassionate about birth and some
labor and delivery nurses areamazing and others are not, and
(13:48):
they lack patients, likeeverywhere, or they're burnt out
or they're traumatized, likeeverywhere.
And then there are also OBs,because these clinics do offer
cesareans and they have, I wouldsay, comparable cesarean rates
to the US.
Oh, wow, really.
That surprises me.
Yeah, like a 30, 40% cesareanrates to the US.
Oh, wow, really.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That surprises me.
Yeah, like a 30, 40 percentcesarean rate.
All right, so you go toTanzania.
You have an amazing experience.
You get back to the US.
What's next?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah.
So at the time you were askingme like, who was Charlotte
before all this got started, atthe time I knew I was actually
really deep into my Peace Corpsapplication.
I think it was my like seventhtime applying, not just backing
out.
Always I'm like I'll probablydo this, I'll probably do this.
And I was deep in that processbecause I was really not
(14:36):
passionate about the antiqueworld that my father is super
passionate about.
No-transcript.
(15:09):
I didn't want to just give thecontact information of the
clinic because I didn't know whothose strangers off of
Instagram were and I didn't knowif they would show up in a
respectful way in the space, ifthey would respect their scope
of practice, if they would beculturally competent.
I didn't know who they were.
I didn't want to just blindlyconnect them to the clinic and
my experience.
(15:29):
That first time those 10 daysthat I was there in 2018, I was
so traumatized I had no one todecompress it with.
I didn't know who to askquestions to.
There was so much I saw that Ididn't understand yet.
And still, every time I'm there, I see things and I'm like I
bet that there is a reason as towhy this is happening and I
just don't know it yet.
So that was the initial idea ofwell, okay, I don't want to
(15:51):
send them there and not, and forthem not to feel supported, and
I also don't want to send themthere like and not know who or
how they're going to show up.
So let's, let's curate it.
And the first iteration of itwas in the following year.
A year later we went back andit.
Over the course of that year ofprepping, it blew up so much
online, which was veryunexpected.
Initially it was just going tobe like a project and I bring
(16:13):
some friends there, but theexecutive director at the time
of Doula Canada, shaughnessyKing, got wind of us and she
posted about it in a privatedoula group and overnight we had
dozens of Canadian applicantsand all of a sudden it was like,
oh, this is a thing, okay,let's create an LLC, let's open
a bank account, let's get awebsite.
(16:33):
Like it all unfolded really,really naturally.
And so that first year Januaryof 2019, I was there for seven
weeks and hosted three differentgroups of doulas and it was
such a mistake.
It was way too much, way toofast.
But it was also amazing.
And so many of those birthworkers from that initial trip
in 2019 are core team membersfor us, so it was definitely the
(16:56):
right call.
But that's how it started.
And then once, once Wombs ofthe World, like once the name
had stuck and once I had thedomain name and once everything
was rolling I was like OK, well,where else?
You know it's called Wombs ofthe World, where else can I go?
I did a semester abroad in highschool, in Ecuador, and I
reached back out to my Spanishteacher and I was like hey, juan
, I'm doing this maternal healthproject.
(17:16):
Do you have any connections?
And he was like I sure do.
My cousin works at the hospitalin Otavalo where I used to live
as a, as a 16 year old, and Iwas likewife, and that's how our
Ecuador program got started.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So it all unfolded very naturally For the doulas
for the birth workers who signup with Wombs of the World to
have an experience with you inthe hosting countries Ecuador,
south Africa, mexico, tanzania.
What kind of experience shouldthey expect to have?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I can give you a little bit of the overview.
We currently have these fourdifferent programs Our Tanzania
program, mexico and Ecuadorprograms are all 10 nights, 11
days, and we're groups ofbetween like 8 and 12.
8 is our max for Tanzania and12 is our max for Ecuador, and
(18:13):
the trips each one is verydifferent.
So the Tanzania program is theonly program where we offer the
hands-on clinical experience,and so it's a really really
great opportunity for either newdoulas like at the time myself,
you know just really eager towitness birth, really eager to
support birth.
That's a great energy to bringto the space, and it's also an
(18:35):
amazing opportunity for superexperienced birth workers that
want to shake up their journeyin this field and really want to
step out of their comfort zoneand witness birth in a totally
different context.
Additionally to the actualclinical days, we're staying in
a beautiful house, we spend aday with a group of Maasai women
learning about theirtraditional home birthing
(18:56):
techniques and like herbalmedicine, and then, because
we're flying all the way toTanzania, we have to go on an
amazing safari.
It's like you can't go all theway there and not go on a safari
.
So there's those elements oftravel and tourism that are
weaved in Versus our Mexico andour Ecuador program do not have
that hands-on clinical work andthose trips are much more
(19:18):
focused on shadowing indigenousmidwives and learning about
traditional birth practices,exactly how you were introducing
me at the beginning, of kind ofblending this super ancient yet
seemingly cutting-edgetechnology into modern birth.
So those trips are verydifferent, because Ecuador and
Mexico are very different, butthey both have a lot of
(19:38):
workshops, a lot of time withthese indigenous traditional
midwives and learning thesetechniques, like learning rebozo
techniques, learning bellybinding, like learning you know
how to feel for a fetus in utero, learning those things directly
from these sources.
And those trips involve a lotof ceremony and homestays.
Our Ecuador program is veryimmersive in the community.
(19:59):
We all stay within a communityand our Mexico experience we
stay like in the heart of Oaxacaat a hotel altogether.
So they definitely have adifferent flavor to them, but
there is no hands-on birth work,it's all workshop oriented.
And then, of course, anywherethat we go, it's a group of
doulas from around the worldcoming together and so, in terms
(20:19):
of like, what can you expectand what are my participants
experiencing?
They're experiencing 10 days ofbeing able to just geek out
about these things that we areso passionate about.
And it's truly introspectivetoo, because I'm sure, as you
know and if any of you listening, are connected to your womb,
womb work is deep andintrospective and generational,
and so when we have theopportunity to connect to our
(20:41):
wombs, to feel our wombs, tohave a friend feel our womb, to
have it then adjusted, to thenbe wrapped up and experience
what that feels like, it'sreally powerful medicine that we
then get to take home and sharewith our respective communities
.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
This concept of womb work resonates so deeply with me
.
Thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, my pleasure.
And because we often get laborand delivery nurses on our trip
and that's your background,right?
Yes, it is, and the feedbackthat I get from them is like
they're just so burnt out by thesystem especially.
I love labor and deliverynurses because thank you first
of all, thank you no-transcriptdelivery nurses get to come on
(21:54):
our trips.
They get to reconnect with thepurpose of why?
Because the hospitalbureaucracy can just beat that
out of you.
And then you get to connectwith doulas, who are just so
excited about birth, you know.
And so then you get to go homeand go back to work with a
little bit of a different lens.
Whether you come to Tanzania oryou're hanging out with the
midwives in Ecuador, you get togo home and see your hospital
(22:16):
system differently.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
You wrote culture is dynamic, yet birth is universal,
and that speaks to what you'resaying right now, which is so
deep.
For example, when I'm at workand I have a patient and we are
from two different cultures, twodifferent countries, we speak
two different languages, andthis patient may have another
woman with her at bedside.
Myself, as a labor and deliverynurse, as a mother, I feel that
(22:41):
we can communicate by lookingat each other.
There is this universalunderstanding, communication
between women post-birth, andthat is the universal
understanding of birth.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I mean, we've all been born, every single
person.
I feel like it's the mostuniting thing that there is.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I agree with you a hundred percent and it's so nice
to hear that you're doing thiswork to really take us women who
are in birth work andintegrating different cultural
practices, and just getting backto the core of what birth is.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Birth is powerful, birth is transcending and
everyone deserves to experiencethat, regardless of who you are,
where you come from, whatlanguage you speak absolutely,
and I feel like if you follow meon instagram, I use the word
revolutionize a lot because Itruly feel as though I I mean I
feel it all the time on ourtrips that these birth workers
(23:47):
from around the world get tocome together and, first of all,
like I think that this is thefirst time, I mean for the last
couple of decades but wherewomen can travel like this,
where we get together, we'refrom all these different walks
of life, I mean the diversity ofthe Wombs of the World.
Participants.
People ask me that all the time, like who is your traveler?
We've had as young as 19,.
As old as 72.
(24:07):
We have over 15 countriesrepresented in our travelers.
I'm leaving in two days.
We're a group of eight fromfive different countries.
I mean it's super, super diverseand we get to come together and
we get to have these superprofound conversations about
these systems and how theydiffer in different places and
the narratives around birth inthese different countries and
(24:27):
not just countries, but acrossthe span of the United States
there's so many differences andthere's so much generational
trauma that is tied into birthand we get to have these
conversations where we dreamabout what birth could be about
the importance of our work andwhen we come together in that
capacity, I sit there all thetime and I have these
(24:47):
out-of-body experiences similarto when I'm in a birth room, and
I have this out-of-bodyexperience of like, oh my gosh,
birth is so cool.
But I have this in thoseconversations of like this is
revolutionary.
This is how revolutions happen,when passionate people come
together and have these superconstructive conversations that
are uncomfortable and that getto the root of things and that
(25:08):
dismantle and deconstruct andthen, from that understanding,
we can build a new.
But we can't do that on our ownand we can't do that if we
don't see the whole picture.
So I'm really a big fan.
Thank you to all of thetravelers that have been on our
trips.
I love you.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
What would you say to the woman in the United States
if they've been pregnant, arepregnant, if they presented to
you the question why therevolution?
What's going on?
Why do we need a revolutionwhen it comes to birth?
Speaker 2 (25:40):
That is a beautiful question.
Well, first of all I'd say hi,congratulations, hope you're
feeling okay.
I feel as though birth has thepower of being so healing, and
that is never the word that'sassociated with birth, and I see
a lot of birth workers now thatare using the language of
(26:02):
empowered birth or, you know,language of like your body is
built to do this, things likethat.
The truth that I seeconsistently when I have the
opportunity, especially toconnect with indigenous
communities that have preservedbirth outside of the Western
medicalized system, is thatbirth is a ceremony and birth is
(26:23):
the journey from maiden tomother.
And we need this revolutionbecause if mothers all over the
world were honored and notforgotten, because so often in
our systems we like, we reverethe pregnant goddess and we
revere the maiden and then, like, the mother is born and she is
(26:43):
forgotten, she is irrelevant inthe you know, the social
discourse but if we honor themother and we bring that
reverence to this transition, tothis super, super fragile time,
and if she can then fully showup for her family, like we know
and this is where my you know,like my little clinical brain
turns on the importance ofnurturing kids in those first
(27:05):
few years of life impacts theirlifelong social, emotional
health, and if we can nurturethese moms and care for these
moms so that they can care foreverybody else like, that is the
revolution, and that is why mymission is to improve global
maternal health outcomes byuplifting, educating, connecting
birth workers, because birthworkers are the foot soldiers in
(27:27):
this revolution.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
A few years ago I was in midwifery school and I can
remember learning.
There was a statistic comingout from the UN saying Black
American women are more likelyto survive their birth if they
give birth in Rwanda.
I know Tanzania, south Africa,rwanda are three different
(27:49):
countries.
But with your experience as anAmerican woman going over to
Africa and witnessing birth andyour experience of witnessing
birth in the United States, whatis the difference?
Why is this disparity happeningto women of color in the United
States?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Well, that is a very loaded question and one that I
would love to fully geek out on,and to understand the racial
disparity in birth in the US, wehave to zoom back outa couple
hundred years to look at thesystems in place and part of
that study that you werementioning.
In terms of the chances ofsurviving are higher if you
birth in Rwanda.
(28:29):
It's a similar study of, ifyou're with the Times, rwanda,
it's a similar study of, ifyou're with the Times.
It's a pretty well-knownstatistic that Black American
women are three to four timesmore likely of dying due to
childbirth-related complicationsthan their white counterparts.
However, african immigrantwomen so women who have been
born and raised in Africa andmoved to the US, they have the
(28:50):
same birth rates and outcomes aswhite women.
And so the bigger picture there, I think, is the long-term
impact of racism, not only onthe actual body of women that
have been raised in the UnitedStates with constant
microaggression, with constantlyraised cortisol levels, and
(29:10):
then they go into a medicalsystem that has been designed on
their backs.
You know, like the so-calledlike father of gynecology.
He experimented on enslavedBlack women, on Arnica, lucy and
Betsy, and that's thefoundation of modern day
obstetrics.
And then you fast forward fromthere to the turn of the 20th
century when birth went frombeing a home event to a hospital
(29:33):
event and all of these blackgranny midwives that had been
caring for all of the familieseverywhere were all of a sudden
told you bring nothing to thefor African-American women like
died so quickly with with thischange from home to hospital
medical information and like westill have these super outdated
beliefs in the medical systems.
(30:18):
You know these like completelyfalse, ungrounded things.
But that route back to thoseearly studies that were so, so,
so racist and things like, forinstance, black women don't feel
pain the same way as whitewomen, like that is absolute BS.
But there are so many studiesthat show, and even like
interviewing, like currentenrolled students, medical
students who have that belief,like that is such a deeply
rooted belief.
(30:38):
And so if you combine theseoutdated medical beliefs with
the mistrust of the medicalsystem, with Black women often
not being believed and then witha lifetime of like weathering
and racism on their bodies, youknow how that impacts their
hormone, their cortisol, theiradrenaline in the birth room.
Then I think that all of thosedifferent systems in place is
(30:59):
what's contributing to the deathof African-American women in
birth compared to if you look atthe maternal morbidity rates in
, say, africa, it's way morelinked to lack of resource
versus like the whole biggersystem at play.
That was a very social workanswer for you.
Clearly, I have thought I'vewritten a lot of papers about
this.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
As a birth worker, speaking as a white woman
working in birth work.
How can we help, how can wemake a positive change?
How can we change thesestatistics, change these numbers
so that our sisters and ourcounterparts are not dying in
childbirth here in the UnitedStates?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Mm, I wish that I did have a very straightforward
answer.
Obviously, it's a much biggersystem at play.
But back to the revolution.
I think that, as white women inbirth work, it's so important
that we understand this biggerpicture.
It's so important that you knowwhen I'm constantly talking
(32:04):
about how birth is political.
Birth is political, birth workis social justice work, and I
have you know.
And then I'll meet a fellowwhite doula who's just like but
no, it's not like I don't wantto get political, and I have you
know.
And then I'll meet a fellowwhite doula who's just like, but
no, it's not like I don't wantto get political.
And it's like you're, you're inthe space and the birth has
been made political.
And so like, first and foremost,just educating yourself on
these systems, like learningabout the foundation of
(32:26):
obstetrics, learning about thegranny midwives, learning about
these, these huge systemicchanges that happened and why
you know.
Like reading the articles youread, the headline of Black
women are dying at three to fourtimes the rate of white women.
Like understanding, reallybreaking down why that is
happening.
And then, any time you have theopportunity to advocate, do it
(32:48):
and whether that's advocatingwhere you're correcting someone
who's making some kind of likeyou know, like you hear somebody
say, well, black women don'tfeel pain.
It's like, no, you correct them.
Like you don't stand for thatkind of ignorance.
And that is part of our missionand that's why we're advocates
and that's why, by being a birthworker, you just default into
being a social justice advocate,because it's like we share the
(33:10):
same goal.
We want healthier birthoutcomes for everybody, for
everybody.
But when systems have beenbuilt on the back of enslaved
Black women and that's thefoundation of obstetrics oof,
there's a whole lot we need todeconstruct.
And then that ties back into somuch of the work of Whom's of
the World is that so much ofthis traditional Indigenous
knowledge in the US has beenlost and in other places it's
(33:31):
dying out so quickly.
And so we're traveling to thesecountries and handing the mic
over to these midwives that havebeen so consistently pushed
aside and like this overallglobal hierarchy of knowledge of
like the West knows best andyou have nothing to teach us.
It's like no, no, no, when itcomes to birth, y'all have been
preserving these practices forso many generations.
(33:52):
And an example in Ecuador, theregion that we travel to, they
have a 90% vaginal birth rateand it's because these midwives
especially in this particularcommunity that's supported by
traditional midwives thesemidwives are accustomed to
adjusting babies in utero fromthe get-go, like from the first
trimester they've got hands onbaby and they're making sure
that baby is head down.
I was listening to your previousepisode about vaginal breech
(34:15):
birth and they wait until 36weeks to get hands on baby and
it's so painful to try to movebaby.
Versus in that particularculture, they have hands on baby
from the get-go and they have.
It's beautiful.
And I have videos on theInstagram showing how these
traditional midwives areadjusting.
You know a baby at 20 weeks anda baby at 26 weeks and a baby
at 31 weeks, but all of thosebabies are head down.
(34:36):
It's brilliant.
So that was a very long way ofsaying please be educated and be
an advocate and speak up whenyou see injustice in Ecuador are
(35:09):
they caring for women withintheir community or for the
larger population of Ecuador.
They are mostly communitymidwives, so supporting the
women in their respectivecommunities.
The region that we go to withour groups is Northern Ecuador.
It's called Inmambura that'slike the province that it's in
and we go to a particular smalltown within that province.
But there are a lot oftraditional midwives in this
community, in this province, andthese traditional midwives have
(35:32):
never been paid for their workand they are just supporting.
You know, it's generationalknowledge and so you know.
Maybe a daughter wasaccompanying her mom at birth
when she was a kid and that'show she started learning.
But we were recently talking toone of the elders, who's in her
80s now and she's oh, mamaanita, she's so lovely and she
(35:54):
said that it was her own healingjourney that made her a midwife
, that it was her birthexperiences that gave her the
curiosity to learn about her ownwomb and her own birth, and
then she's been sharing thatwith women in her community ever
since and for many generations.
All of the births took placewith these women in homes, and
similar to what happened in theUS 120-ish years ago when it
(36:17):
went from home to hospital.
There's a whole lot of thathappening all over the world and
, like, in some instances,western medicine is amazing
Thank you for saving lives butin other instances, home birth
can be a very, very safe option,and so what I see from the
midwives that we work with isthat they do offer home births,
they do work with women and dohome births, but they also have
(36:40):
built relationships with theclinics in the community and so
if they do need to have atransfer situation, or if a mom
is more comfortable birthing atthe hospital, she still has all
of her follow-up with thecommunity midwife, like with one
of our midwives, and then herpostpartum support with the
community midwife that goes toher house, but she might birth
at the hospital.
And then these hospitals innorthern Ecuador, the one I
(37:03):
again, if you go on Instagram, Ihave a video of this, but
there's a birth room at thehospital in Otavalo.
So I was telling you how I waswalking around looking for my
friend's cousin and we ended upgetting a tour and then we ended
up going back there.
So I've been there.
I spent quite to the clinicbecause there's a huge mistrust,
of course, between, like theindigenous people and and like
Western, what they calloccidental medicine.
(37:30):
So they're not so keen on goingto the hospital.
So they designed this birth roomthat's supposed to kind of
mimic an indigenous home andit's a big room and it's low
lighting and they've gotpainting on the wall and they've
got squat bars on the wall witha mattress, and then in the
middle of the room they have abig rope hanging and a birthing
stool underneath it, on top ofthe mattress, and they've got
birthing balls and they've gotmusic and it's just like.
(37:52):
It's a vibe Like this is, thisis where to birth, this is how
to birth, no extreme overheadlighting.
I love seeing OBs catchingbabies on their stomach, like
you know, because these womenare on like deep, deep squats on
the floor, and so the entiretyof the region, I think, has done
a whole lot to support theindigenous women, because it's a
mostly indigenous populationand just creating safer birth
(38:14):
outcomes.
And so they that particularhospital has blended like they
have a resident traditionalmidwife that works there
full-time, and then they alsoallow traditional midwives to
accompany moms essentially astheir doula, like what we would
consider the scope of practiceof a doula?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Do you find that many of the women who come and
experience Wombs of the Worldtake the ancestral wisdom that
they're learning and bring itback into their birth work in
their home countries?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
It's a conversation that we have regularly on our
trips is the difference betweencultural appreciation and
cultural appropriation, and so Ithink that, off the bat, the
fact that they're investing andtraveling all the way there and
spending the time and learningdirectly from the source and
having it be shared with so muchblessing is great permission to
(39:04):
use it.
But the thing that we mostlytalk about is like, okay, you're
going to take this home because, yes, my intention for them is
like add more tools to yourtoolbox.
You know, be really pumpedabout what you're learning and
you want to share it.
So, whether that's a postpartumclosing of the bones or a
rebozo adjustment in like latepregnancy to ease pain, you know
(39:25):
things along those lines, Iwant for them to go home and be
able to practice that, and partof that practice is sharing
where the knowledge comes fromand honoring our teachers and
honoring their teachers and likethe entire lineage of this
knowledge.
So that is, yeah, that's like acore theme of Wounds of the
World.
Is that conversation?
And there's an elder there thatwe meet with in Ecuador.
(39:48):
His name is Taitai Oscar andhe's like an amazing healer in
the community, very, verypowerful man, and he told us
this story about how, for manygenerations, they had to hide
all of their seeds of knowledgebecause, as you know, colonizers
were coming in and changingtheir way of life.
They had to hide all of theirseeds of knowledge because, as
colonizers were coming in andchanging their way of life, they
had to protect this knowledge,this traditional generational
(40:10):
wisdom that had been passed down, and they took all of those
seeds and they hid them away.
And now, in the era ofglobalization, where kids are no
longer learning the mothertongues of their grandparents
for instance, like the region inEcuador, they speak Quechua
they're no longer learningQuechua, they're speaking
Spanish and they're learningEnglish because of how the world
is changing, that Tai Tai Oscartold us that now, in order to
(40:33):
protect those seeds, we have toshare them and they have to be
planted and flourish in othercountries and other places, and
that's how we're going to keepthe knowledge alive.
And I just thought that thatwas such a beautiful way of
looking at it, and also I feltlike it was him granting us
permission and granting me, forinstance, in this moment,
(40:56):
permission to share that storywith you, like nowadays, in 2025
, in order to preserve thesetraditional teachings that are
dying out with this generationof elder healers around the
world.
We have to learn it and we haveto preserve it.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Hearing that provokes so much emotion.
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah, I get really excited talking about this and
then I talk really fast and mymom's always like breathe,
breathe when you talk and I'mlike, no, please, there's so
much more.
And I was mentioning thisearlier too.
I say this jokingly and also soseriously to all of my
participants my goal for themwhen they come on a trip is I
(41:30):
want for them to be on thatplane going home feeling so
fired up to get to work.
They have so many new tools andnot only are we learning from
the midwives and the workshops,but we're learning from each
other, because you get 10 daysjust geeking out and so you're
hearing stories and you'reswapping.
I mean, I love it on day nineof a trip when I watch them
swapping their breastfeedingPowerPoints, Like that's.
You know, that's so magical forme.
(41:52):
So I want them on that planehome feeling so pumped to get to
work and to support moms and tochange their system and to
revolutionize maternal health.
And then I also want them to becompletely heartbroken that the
trip is over and that they haveto come on the next one.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
All right.
So we've talked about Ecuador,we talked about Tanzania.
I want to hear more aboutMexico.
For those who might beinterested in going to Mexico,
what would an experience withWombs of the World look like for
them?
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Our Mexico program is our newest program.
We do have a few spots left forthe trip that's going in May
this year.
So if you are a birth workerlistening or just a super
maternal health enthusiast,check it out.
Wombsoftheworldcom slash Mexico.
The program starts in MexicoCity and we spend the first
three nights in Mexico City andthen we all travel to Oaxaca
together and a differencebetween the I was mentioning
earlier like a huge differencebetween the Ecuador and the
Mexico program is that it'sMexico Like.
(42:59):
Mexico is just like.
I feel as though when I thinkback to the last trip I was on
there there's just so muchdancing and joy and laughter and
Mexico is huge and it has sucha diverse population and so many
like flavors and cultures anddifferent indigenous populations
all weaved into one country.
So we go specifically to Oaxacato learn from that particular
(43:25):
lineage and we have a fewdifferent.
So in Ecuador we are workingwith the same mother-daughter
like midwife duo and in Mexicowe have, I think, about four
different sets of teachers.
One of them is anothermother-daughter, but the mother
is renowned.
She's almost I mean she mightbe 87 by now.
(43:46):
She was 86 last time I saw her.
I don't know when her birthdayis, but she's 86.
Her name is Doña Keta.
She's had books published abouther.
She's just amazing.
She has been to so many birthsand she has trained so many
generations of midwives afterher, and her daughter
specializes in healing traumaeither before or after birth.
(44:09):
So she mostly focuses on onlike victims of sexual trauma
and how birth can exacerbatethat, the that trauma for them
in motherhood.
So really amazing duo there.
But since Doña Keta is in her80s, she's not the one that's
teaching us our hands-onpractices, and so for that we
have another traditionalindigenous midwife named
Paterayu, and Yu is spelled Y-Uand she is younger, she's like
(44:34):
in her 40s, she's a young momand like her.
You know, one of my takeawaysfrom her is that before you find
your womb you have to dance,like you have to dance to
release the womb, and so we'redoing these like 30 minute,
essentially like twerk workshops, just like getting our womb in
a nice central place andloosening up the ligaments.
And that is not the vibe inEcuador Very different, very
(44:55):
different vibes.
And so Partera Yu is one of ourteachers and she's the one that
teaches us about bravotechniques and abdominal massage
and closing of the bones andshe's also a healer.
They're all amazing healers.
And then we have another set ofwomen that are traditional
midwives as well and they kindof bring the ceremonial
component to the trip.
So we do sweat lodges with themand we have cow ceremony and we
(45:15):
learn about the like Masticoastrology.
So we get like our astrologicalcharts read but it's a totally
different kind of astrology fromwhat we might be used to and we
stay in the heart of OaxacaCity and so we have these
workshops during the day andthen in the evening we have on
every single Wombs of the Worldtrip.
We eat amazing food, so we havelike an amazing dinner, but
(45:44):
then if you as the participantwant to go out and experience
Oaxaca with the music and therooftops and the mezcal, this is
the only trip that gives youthat kind of opportunity,
because all of our otherprograms were staying kind of in
the middle of nowhere andthere's definitely nothing to do
at the end of the day.
So Mexico's fun.
I can't leave out South Africanow that the other three have
been so painted.
The South Africa program is thefirst trip that's in
collaboration with someone elsewho has designed the entire trip
.
Her name is Matsila Monseyi andshe is talk about revolutionary
(46:09):
.
She is, wow, a powerhouse.
Her background she's like amother of grown children and
when she was young she startedas a nurse midwife in South
Africa and over the years hasdone tremendous work against
violence.
And in more recent years shegot her PhD in indigenous
midwifery of South Africa, andso she traveled all over South
(46:31):
Africa documenting indigenousbirth practices and at the end
of it, when she was getting herdoctorate, she was like I don't
want this information to justsit on a shelf, I should create
something and bring people here.
Echoing that exact sentiment Iwas sharing about TyTy Oscar
like.
The way to preserve this now isto share it.
You know, at a different timethe way to preserve it was to
hide it.
Now the way to preserve it isto share it.
(46:53):
And so she has put togetherthis incredible 12-day itinerary
where we travel all over aparticular like we start in
Johannesburg and then we'retraveling almost the entire time
and we end back up inJohannesburg.
So we meet with a variety ofdifferent midwives, a variety of
different schools of thought,and then also are blending in
the beauty of South Africa and,again, similar to Tanzania, we
(47:16):
can't go all the way therewithout going on a game drive or
a safari and experiencing thelocal food, the local markets.
There's just the local culture.
And so Mozilla is my partner inthis and we have our first trip
.
I haven't been before, but wehave our first trip coming up in
April and I think it's going tobe really amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
What's next for Charlotte, brielle and Wombs of
the World?
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Oh, there's so many things I've been jokingly
talking about, how I have somany different pots cooking and
I'm doing everything to avoid akitchen fire.
What I'm currently working onis essentially a full spectrum
doula training.
I feel as though wombs of theworld is very uniquely
positioned to bring a globalnarrative to the conversation
(48:00):
around birth, and also, reallyone of my biggest passions about
doula work is howentrepreneurial it is, and so
really just wanting to get likeI was saying earlier, like just
getting more foot soldiers inthis revolution, getting more
like the goal is to get morebirth workers actually
supporting moms, and so that issomething I'm currently working
on.
I recently released two courses.
(48:22):
One is a childbirth educationcourse.
It's called Preparing forParenthood and it's essentially
my like love letter as a doulato all the expectant parents,
and it weaves in wisdom from theparticipants on our trips, like
from the doulas I've had theopportunity to spend time with.
It has insights from the over100 births I've attended insight
as, like the social worker thatI am, you know.
(48:43):
So it's full of insight.
And then the other program Irecently launched is called the
Doula Launchpad and the idea forthat is like okay, you finish
your three-day doula training.
Now what are you supposed to do?
So?
The Doula Launchpad has all ofthe essentials that you need to
get started, from contracts tochildbirth education,
powerpoints to how to build yourwebsite, how to hack AI to help
(49:05):
you as a doula.
You know there's all kinds oftutorials in there, so those
essentially audience.
If those sell, we can do so muchwe can we can.
The proceeds from that aregoing directly to our foundation
, and our foundation, the Wombsof the World Foundation, is
buying neonatal equipment forthe clinics in Tanzania.
It is supporting a traditionalmidwifery school in Ecuador.
(49:26):
It is providing scholarships toglobal birth workers.
For instance, recently wesupported a woman in Tanzania to
become trained in sonography sothat she can operate the
portable ultrasound machine forthe mobile clinic that we're
working on so that more women inrural villages can get better
health care.
And we can't do any of thiswithout more engagement and
(49:47):
people buying the courses andsigning up for trips and, you
know, becoming sponsors.
So I'm just trying to trying todo a lot, lots of pots cooking,
but it's happening because Iget the opportunity every single
day to connect with reallypassionate birth workers all
over the place.
And again, I know, when we cometogether, magic happens, so I'm
just trusting the ride.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
And I think the ride for you has just begun.
What you're doing is amazing.
I'm honored that you have takenthe time to sit and chat with
me and share your stories, shareyour truth.
Thank you so much.
Any of the listeners who wantto learn more about Charlotte
Brielle and the wombs of theworld, I will leave all the
(50:38):
information with the release ofthis podcast episode.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
I just want to thank you, stephanie.
I want to thank you forcreating this kind of space to
have these conversations, forwanting to contribute to the
story so that your listeners,whether they're pregnant people
or they're birth workers, feellike they have more tools to do
this.
Thank you so much for creatingthis kind of opportunity and
platform.
And if you're a birth worker,praise you, keep it up.
And if you're a birth worker,praise you keep it up.
(51:02):
And if you're a mom, listeningpraise you.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
keep it up.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to check out our socialmedia.
All links are provided in theepisode description.
We're excited to have you here.
Please give us a follow If youor someone you know would like
to be a guest on the show.
Reach out to us via email atinfo at maternalwealthcom.
(51:35):
And remember stay healthy,embrace your power, and you got
this.
Welcome to the Maternal Wealth Podcast, a space
for all things related tomaternal health, pregnancy and
beyond.
I'm your host, stephanie Terrio.
I am a labor and delivery nurseand a mother to three beautiful
boys.
Each week, we dive intoinspiring stories and expert
insights to remind us of thepower that you hold in
childbirth and motherhood.
We're here to explore the joys,the challenges and the
(00:36):
complexities of maternal health.
Every mother's journey isunique and every story deserves
to be told.
Please note that this podcastis for entertainment purposes
only.
It is not intended to replaceprofessional medical advice,
diagnosis or treatment.
Always consult with yourhealthcare provider for medical
guidance that is tailored toyour specific needs.
(00:57):
Are you ready?
Let's get into it.
Good morning and welcome to theMaternal Wealth Podcast.
Today, we are excited to welcomeCharlotte Brielle.
She is the founder andexecutive director of Wombs of
(01:21):
the World.
This is a global initiativethat is dedicated to
transforming maternal health byintegrating modern birth
practices with the preservationand the celebration of
traditional birth cultures.
Since 2018, wombs of the Worldhas empowered birth workers
across the globe throughimmersive programs in Tanzania,
(01:43):
ecuador, south Africa and Mexico.
Charlotte is a full-spectrumdoula, a childbirth educator
with a master's degree inmaternal health, social work, as
well as an undergraduate degreein anthropology and sociology.
I'm excited for our listenersto hear more of this amazing
movement created by Charlotte tointertwine the sanctity of
(02:06):
birth across the globe.
Let's welcome Charlotte.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Brielle, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here withyou, and what a great
introduction.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Charlotte, that introduction is so well deserved
.
I'm so excited to chat with youtoday.
I would love to start bylearning more about who was
Charlotte before the wombs ofthe world.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I love that.
What a great starting question.
Well, charlotte has been.
I have been really obsessedwith babies since I was a baby.
My family did not know where Icame from.
I was that kid that would besix years old and go to the park
and end up coming home with abunch of toddlers and wanting to
feed them snacks and my momwould be like, do their parents
know where they are?
You know, so I've always had anaffinity for, specifically,
(02:51):
babies and you mentioned I gotmy undergrad in anthropology and
sociology, was super interestedin women's health, maternal
health, and when I was 19, Iwent to Costa Rica and I was
living on this organic farm.
I was woofing I don't know iffor your listeners it's
worldwide opportunities onorganic farms.
(03:13):
And so when I was 19, I waslike, what if the world ends?
I need to learn how topermaculture.
So I was at this farm in CostaRica and this woman was telling
me her birth story and Iremember being there like
sitting on the floor eating mybanana ice cream.
And she is telling me her birthstory via slam poetry and in
her birth she had a drum circleand she had this amazing home
birth and I just remembersitting on the floor and just
(03:34):
having my mind blown of, like,wait, birth can be like this.
And in her poem she talkedabout a doula.
And after her poem I was like,what's a doula?
And she told me and I knewright then.
And there I was like, oh, Iwant to do that someday.
But I think, like a lot ofdoulas, I was under the
impression that I needed toexperience motherhood first,
experience birth myself, beforeI would be able to share that
(03:54):
space.
And so I was patiently waiting,carolina in Asheville
specifically, and I was workingwith my dad in the antique space
.
My dad is an antique dealer andI was working with him and I
met this pregnant woman.
She came into the store and mydad was like my daughter loves
pregnant people and I was like,maybe we don't say that to
people, dad, but she had justmoved to Asheville from Berkeley
(04:19):
, california, and she had been adoula out there and I was like,
oh, I've always wanted to dothat.
And she's like, well, go do it.
Go do it, because do it now,before you have kids, because
once you have kids it's a wholelot harder to be on call.
So that was my journey intobirth work in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
What did the transition look like for you
into becoming a doula?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, luckily, I was at the time and this was in 2017
.
I was living in Asheville,north Carolina, and it is such a
hub for birth workers.
It's also a hub for any kind ofhealer.
You know, I kind of joke of you.
You throw a rock and you hit ayoga instructor, a Reiki master,
a chiropractor and a doula allwith the same stone, you know,
and probably an astrologistmixed in there too.
(04:59):
It's a great place and Ienrolled in a training and I
remember sitting there myamazing instructor at the time,
kama Wadak, was my instructorand I was just so mind blown in
the way of like how is this notcommon knowledge?
How is this not commonknowledge?
(05:19):
And I remember sitting there soexcited about launching into my
career as a doula and then alsofeeling in myself like I want
to do what she's doing.
I want to inspire this room,this room, about like, what is
possible and what birth can belike and how birth can be
healing, birth can be empowering, and not this depiction of you
know what we've seen in themedia for decades now of this
emergency situation and you'rerushed into the hospital and
(05:41):
everybody's screaming and bam, ababy.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So you're a doula working in the United States.
How did this transition into aglobal project?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Well, it actually started.
The wombs of the world startedcreated itself.
It happened very quickly.
So I did my training inSeptember, in September of 2017.
And there was another woman inmy training who, like me, was a
very avid traveler, had livedinternationally and we were both
seeking experience.
And you can't just kind of showup at a hospital in the States
(06:11):
and be like, hi, can I volunteeras a doula just to get some of
that hands-on experience.
And so she had connected with aCanadian midwife that was
living in Tanzania through arandom Google search so you know
, shooting our shot.
And this midwife in Tanzaniawas like come over here and I'll
get you set up.
And she and her husband at thetime had this tourism company,
so they were used to hostingpeople, not so much doulas
(06:34):
wanting to work in a clinicalsetting, but they kind of held
our hand in getting there andgetting us set up with a
homestay experience.
So between my training andbeing in Tanzania, I had only
attended one birth in the US.
So I was a brand new baby doulaand I do.
For the audience listening, Ijust want to be very intentional
(06:55):
by saying that before going toTanzania that first time, as I
call myself a brand new babydoula.
I was so aware of my scope ofpractice and I was also so aware
of the privilege of being aWestern woman traveling to
Tanzania and having theseclinical doors open for me, like
that's not something that weget to experience in the Western
world.
(07:15):
And so I went into it with thistremendous amount of mindfulness
of wanting to to just reallyrespect my scope of practice, to
support birth, to witness birth, to not overstep, to not
pretend that I was anything thatI wasn't.
And I say that now because whenwe created Wombs of the World,
those are also very intentional,because the clinics there don't
know what doulas do.
(07:36):
They don't know our scope ofpractice and so regularly when
we're there and I know I'mjumping ahead, but when we're
there we are the ones that haveto respect our scope.
So I ended up in Tanzania onlya few months after that initial
training and within 10 days,witnessed over 30 births and all
kinds of birth breech birth,twin birth, stillbirth, cesarean
birth I mean all kinds of birth.
And I came home from that and Iwas like cool, I'm ready to get
(07:57):
to work, let's do this.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
We pause this episode for a quick message from our
sponsor.
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That's why we created amaternal healthcare provider
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(08:29):
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Profiles feature badges thathighlight various services, such
as TODAC-friendly practices,all-female practices, lgbtqai
(08:52):
plus inclusivity, languageoptions, access to vaginal
breach services and, moreAdditionally, be sure to check
out our Not your Average Birthcourse.
In this course, I discuss thevariations that exist in
(09:21):
hospital practices based onpolicies, staffing and budgets,
all of which can directly affectyour birth experience and
outcome.
What does birth look like forthe woman of Tanzania?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
So the clinic at the time that I was volunteering in
is a local government fundedhospital, and so it had no bells
or whistles to it, and one ofmy takeaways at the time and I
always have to kind of travelback in time because now I've
been so many times I have a hardtime remembering that initial
(09:55):
feeling.
So okay, so the layout of theclinics, and so this doesn't
just apply to this one All theclinics I've ever visited there
all have this similar setupwhere there's one big communal
room that's the labor room andalso the postpartum room, and
oftentimes these clinics kind ofhave their postpartum rooms
divvied up between cesareanrecovery and vaginal recovery,
(10:16):
but the people that are in thevaginal recovery area they also
are laboring in that room.
So there's one big room and inthat that room there are usually
like maybe 15 beds, and so thatmeans that there's 15 moms and
15 babies in that room at alltimes, unless it's slow, and
then there's less, or if there'smore, they sometimes will put
two moms in one bed.
So there's very, very littleresources, and then when a mom
(10:40):
is like feeling like she's maybeready to push, or if she gets
checked and she's and she's pastthe eight centimeter mark, they
keep her in a different roomand that's the pushing room, and
that room does not have thecommunity feel that the other
room does.
And so the labor room in thepostpartum room is full of
family members and it's mostlywomen and I love that, I love
this sense of community and youdon't know like which
(11:01):
grandmother belongs to whichbaby, because they're all
helping everybody out.
And there's, you know, thegrandmothers outside that are
trading chickens for the soupthat they're making in the
communal kitchen, which isessentially just like a room
that has a fire pit in it andthey bring their own pots and
pans and it just has this reallyamazing community feel.
And also there's no resources.
This particular clinic doesn'teven have running water.
(11:23):
You know you want to take thatpostpartum shower.
You can't, you have to waituntil you're home.
So really just stripping awayany of the resources that we
would be used to in birth andyou get these women and they
show up with so much courage andstrength and they have such a
different approach to the mentalheadspace of birth because,
(11:43):
just because the narrativearound birth is so different.
So I feel like in the US, frommy observation as a birth worker
there's.
We have so much mental anxietybefore giving birth, there's so
much, and pregnant people get somuch unsolicited advice all the
time and then these women likethey show up in the birth.
So once they go back to thatpushing room and in the
backspace they are very muchalone.
(12:05):
Sometimes, if someone's neededa mom can be back there with
them, but most of the timethey're alone and the nursing
staff is firm and sometimesthat's really hard for us to
witness just how harsh thingscan be and also how outdated
things can be.
So there's also routineprotocol in those clinics that
(12:27):
we would consider outdated.
For instance, they are allbirthing on their backs, knees
bent, holding on to their ankles.
That is the position that theyare to birth in and routine
episiotomies another example ofjust things that are routine
protocol.
So when we're there asparticipants with Wombs of the
World, we're really good atbeing like oh no, no, she's
doing great.
How about we just put her onher side?
(12:48):
You know, we've like learnedways of communicating really
effective strategies for birthand that's like the magic of
what doulas do we get to do that?
I'm getting ahead of myself andwanting to tell you more about
the programs, but did thatanswer your question?
Yes, you did, thank you.
(13:28):
Who is generally attending thetwo days to go back to Tanzania?
And there are a few nurses thatare amazing, like labor and
delivery nurse midwives, andthey hold it down.
But besides that, there's thisreally healthy rotation that
comes through, which is a goodand a bad thing because, as we
know, some people are sopassionate about birth and some
labor and delivery nurses areamazing and others are not, and
(13:48):
they lack patients, likeeverywhere, or they're burnt out
or they're traumatized, likeeverywhere.
And then there are also OBs,because these clinics do offer
cesareans and they have, I wouldsay, comparable cesarean rates
to the US.
Oh, wow, really.
That surprises me.
Yeah, like a 30, 40% cesareanrates to the US.
Oh, wow, really.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That surprises me.
Yeah, like a 30, 40 percentcesarean rate.
All right, so you go toTanzania.
You have an amazing experience.
You get back to the US.
What's next?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah.
So at the time you were askingme like, who was Charlotte
before all this got started, atthe time I knew I was actually
really deep into my Peace Corpsapplication.
I think it was my like seventhtime applying, not just backing
out.
Always I'm like I'll probablydo this, I'll probably do this.
And I was deep in that processbecause I was really not
(14:36):
passionate about the antiqueworld that my father is super
passionate about.
No-transcript.
(15:09):
I didn't want to just give thecontact information of the
clinic because I didn't know whothose strangers off of
Instagram were and I didn't knowif they would show up in a
respectful way in the space, ifthey would respect their scope
of practice, if they would beculturally competent.
I didn't know who they were.
I didn't want to just blindlyconnect them to the clinic and
my experience.
(15:29):
That first time those 10 daysthat I was there in 2018, I was
so traumatized I had no one todecompress it with.
I didn't know who to askquestions to.
There was so much I saw that Ididn't understand yet.
And still, every time I'm there, I see things and I'm like I
bet that there is a reason as towhy this is happening and I
just don't know it yet.
So that was the initial idea ofwell, okay, I don't want to
(15:51):
send them there and not, and forthem not to feel supported, and
I also don't want to send themthere like and not know who or
how they're going to show up.
So let's, let's curate it.
And the first iteration of itwas in the following year.
A year later we went back andit.
Over the course of that year ofprepping, it blew up so much
online, which was veryunexpected.
Initially it was just going tobe like a project and I bring
(16:13):
some friends there, but theexecutive director at the time
of Doula Canada, shaughnessyKing, got wind of us and she
posted about it in a privatedoula group and overnight we had
dozens of Canadian applicantsand all of a sudden it was like,
oh, this is a thing, okay,let's create an LLC, let's open
a bank account, let's get awebsite.
(16:33):
Like it all unfolded really,really naturally.
And so that first year Januaryof 2019, I was there for seven
weeks and hosted three differentgroups of doulas and it was
such a mistake.
It was way too much, way toofast.
But it was also amazing.
And so many of those birthworkers from that initial trip
in 2019 are core team membersfor us, so it was definitely the
(16:56):
right call.
But that's how it started.
And then once, once Wombs ofthe World, like once the name
had stuck and once I had thedomain name and once everything
was rolling I was like OK, well,where else?
You know it's called Wombs ofthe World, where else can I go?
I did a semester abroad in highschool, in Ecuador, and I
reached back out to my Spanishteacher and I was like hey, juan
, I'm doing this maternal healthproject.
(17:16):
Do you have any connections?
And he was like I sure do.
My cousin works at the hospitalin Otavalo where I used to live
as a, as a 16 year old, and Iwas likewife, and that's how our
Ecuador program got started.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So it all unfolded very naturally For the doulas
for the birth workers who signup with Wombs of the World to
have an experience with you inthe hosting countries Ecuador,
south Africa, mexico, tanzania.
What kind of experience shouldthey expect to have?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I can give you a little bit of the overview.
We currently have these fourdifferent programs Our Tanzania
program, mexico and Ecuadorprograms are all 10 nights, 11
days, and we're groups ofbetween like 8 and 12.
8 is our max for Tanzania and12 is our max for Ecuador, and
(18:13):
the trips each one is verydifferent.
So the Tanzania program is theonly program where we offer the
hands-on clinical experience,and so it's a really really
great opportunity for either newdoulas like at the time myself,
you know just really eager towitness birth, really eager to
support birth.
That's a great energy to bringto the space, and it's also an
(18:35):
amazing opportunity for superexperienced birth workers that
want to shake up their journeyin this field and really want to
step out of their comfort zoneand witness birth in a totally
different context.
Additionally to the actualclinical days, we're staying in
a beautiful house, we spend aday with a group of Maasai women
learning about theirtraditional home birthing
(18:56):
techniques and like herbalmedicine, and then, because
we're flying all the way toTanzania, we have to go on an
amazing safari.
It's like you can't go all theway there and not go on a safari
.
So there's those elements oftravel and tourism that are
weaved in Versus our Mexico andour Ecuador program do not have
that hands-on clinical work andthose trips are much more
(19:18):
focused on shadowing indigenousmidwives and learning about
traditional birth practices,exactly how you were introducing
me at the beginning, of kind ofblending this super ancient yet
seemingly cutting-edgetechnology into modern birth.
So those trips are verydifferent, because Ecuador and
Mexico are very different, butthey both have a lot of
(19:38):
workshops, a lot of time withthese indigenous traditional
midwives and learning thesetechniques, like learning rebozo
techniques, learning bellybinding, like learning you know
how to feel for a fetus in utero, learning those things directly
from these sources.
And those trips involve a lotof ceremony and homestays.
Our Ecuador program is veryimmersive in the community.
(19:59):
We all stay within a communityand our Mexico experience we
stay like in the heart of Oaxacaat a hotel altogether.
So they definitely have adifferent flavor to them, but
there is no hands-on birth work,it's all workshop oriented.
And then, of course, anywherethat we go, it's a group of
doulas from around the worldcoming together and so, in terms
(20:19):
of like, what can you expectand what are my participants
experiencing?
They're experiencing 10 days ofbeing able to just geek out
about these things that we areso passionate about.
And it's truly introspectivetoo, because I'm sure, as you
know and if any of you listening, are connected to your womb,
womb work is deep andintrospective and generational,
and so when we have theopportunity to connect to our
(20:41):
wombs, to feel our wombs, tohave a friend feel our womb, to
have it then adjusted, to thenbe wrapped up and experience
what that feels like, it'sreally powerful medicine that we
then get to take home and sharewith our respective communities
.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
This concept of womb work resonates so deeply with me
.
Thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, my pleasure.
And because we often get laborand delivery nurses on our trip
and that's your background,right?
Yes, it is, and the feedbackthat I get from them is like
they're just so burnt out by thesystem especially.
I love labor and deliverynurses because thank you first
of all, thank you no-transcriptdelivery nurses get to come on
(21:54):
our trips.
They get to reconnect with thepurpose of why?
Because the hospitalbureaucracy can just beat that
out of you.
And then you get to connectwith doulas, who are just so
excited about birth, you know.
And so then you get to go homeand go back to work with a
little bit of a different lens.
Whether you come to Tanzania oryou're hanging out with the
midwives in Ecuador, you get togo home and see your hospital
(22:16):
system differently.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
You wrote culture is dynamic, yet birth is universal,
and that speaks to what you'resaying right now, which is so
deep.
For example, when I'm at workand I have a patient and we are
from two different cultures, twodifferent countries, we speak
two different languages, andthis patient may have another
woman with her at bedside.
Myself, as a labor and deliverynurse, as a mother, I feel that
(22:41):
we can communicate by lookingat each other.
There is this universalunderstanding, communication
between women post-birth, andthat is the universal
understanding of birth.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I mean, we've all been born, every single
person.
I feel like it's the mostuniting thing that there is.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I agree with you a hundred percent and it's so nice
to hear that you're doing thiswork to really take us women who
are in birth work andintegrating different cultural
practices, and just getting backto the core of what birth is.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Birth is powerful, birth is transcending and
everyone deserves to experiencethat, regardless of who you are,
where you come from, whatlanguage you speak absolutely,
and I feel like if you follow meon instagram, I use the word
revolutionize a lot because Itruly feel as though I I mean I
feel it all the time on ourtrips that these birth workers
(23:47):
from around the world get tocome together and, first of all,
like I think that this is thefirst time, I mean for the last
couple of decades but wherewomen can travel like this,
where we get together, we'refrom all these different walks
of life, I mean the diversity ofthe Wombs of the World.
Participants.
People ask me that all the time, like who is your traveler?
We've had as young as 19,.
As old as 72.
(24:07):
We have over 15 countriesrepresented in our travelers.
I'm leaving in two days.
We're a group of eight fromfive different countries.
I mean it's super, super diverseand we get to come together and
we get to have these superprofound conversations about
these systems and how theydiffer in different places and
the narratives around birth inthese different countries and
(24:27):
not just countries, but acrossthe span of the United States
there's so many differences andthere's so much generational
trauma that is tied into birthand we get to have these
conversations where we dreamabout what birth could be about
the importance of our work andwhen we come together in that
capacity, I sit there all thetime and I have these
(24:47):
out-of-body experiences similarto when I'm in a birth room, and
I have this out-of-bodyexperience of like, oh my gosh,
birth is so cool.
But I have this in thoseconversations of like this is
revolutionary.
This is how revolutions happen,when passionate people come
together and have these superconstructive conversations that
are uncomfortable and that getto the root of things and that
(25:08):
dismantle and deconstruct andthen, from that understanding,
we can build a new.
But we can't do that on our ownand we can't do that if we
don't see the whole picture.
So I'm really a big fan.
Thank you to all of thetravelers that have been on our
trips.
I love you.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
What would you say to the woman in the United States
if they've been pregnant, arepregnant, if they presented to
you the question why therevolution?
What's going on?
Why do we need a revolutionwhen it comes to birth?
Speaker 2 (25:40):
That is a beautiful question.
Well, first of all I'd say hi,congratulations, hope you're
feeling okay.
I feel as though birth has thepower of being so healing, and
that is never the word that'sassociated with birth, and I see
a lot of birth workers now thatare using the language of
(26:02):
empowered birth or, you know,language of like your body is
built to do this, things likethat.
The truth that I seeconsistently when I have the
opportunity, especially toconnect with indigenous
communities that have preservedbirth outside of the Western
medicalized system, is thatbirth is a ceremony and birth is
(26:23):
the journey from maiden tomother.
And we need this revolutionbecause if mothers all over the
world were honored and notforgotten, because so often in
our systems we like, we reverethe pregnant goddess and we
revere the maiden and then, like, the mother is born and she is
(26:43):
forgotten, she is irrelevant inthe you know, the social
discourse but if we honor themother and we bring that
reverence to this transition, tothis super, super fragile time,
and if she can then fully showup for her family, like we know
and this is where my you know,like my little clinical brain
turns on the importance ofnurturing kids in those first
(27:05):
few years of life impacts theirlifelong social, emotional
health, and if we can nurturethese moms and care for these
moms so that they can care foreverybody else like, that is the
revolution, and that is why mymission is to improve global
maternal health outcomes byuplifting, educating, connecting
birth workers, because birthworkers are the foot soldiers in
(27:27):
this revolution.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
A few years ago I was in midwifery school and I can
remember learning.
There was a statistic comingout from the UN saying Black
American women are more likelyto survive their birth if they
give birth in Rwanda.
I know Tanzania, south Africa,rwanda are three different
(27:49):
countries.
But with your experience as anAmerican woman going over to
Africa and witnessing birth andyour experience of witnessing
birth in the United States, whatis the difference?
Why is this disparity happeningto women of color in the United
States?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Well, that is a very loaded question and one that I
would love to fully geek out on,and to understand the racial
disparity in birth in the US, wehave to zoom back outa couple
hundred years to look at thesystems in place and part of
that study that you werementioning.
In terms of the chances ofsurviving are higher if you
birth in Rwanda.
(28:29):
It's a similar study of, ifyou're with the Times, rwanda,
it's a similar study of, ifyou're with the Times.
It's a pretty well-knownstatistic that Black American
women are three to four timesmore likely of dying due to
childbirth-related complicationsthan their white counterparts.
However, african immigrantwomen so women who have been
born and raised in Africa andmoved to the US, they have the
(28:50):
same birth rates and outcomes aswhite women.
And so the bigger picture there, I think, is the long-term
impact of racism, not only onthe actual body of women that
have been raised in the UnitedStates with constant
microaggression, with constantlyraised cortisol levels, and
(29:10):
then they go into a medicalsystem that has been designed on
their backs.
You know, like the so-calledlike father of gynecology.
He experimented on enslavedBlack women, on Arnica, lucy and
Betsy, and that's thefoundation of modern day
obstetrics.
And then you fast forward fromthere to the turn of the 20th
century when birth went frombeing a home event to a hospital
(29:33):
event and all of these blackgranny midwives that had been
caring for all of the familieseverywhere were all of a sudden
told you bring nothing to thefor African-American women like
died so quickly with with thischange from home to hospital
medical information and like westill have these super outdated
beliefs in the medical systems.
(30:18):
You know these like completelyfalse, ungrounded things.
But that route back to thoseearly studies that were so, so,
so racist and things like, forinstance, black women don't feel
pain the same way as whitewomen, like that is absolute BS.
But there are so many studiesthat show, and even like
interviewing, like currentenrolled students, medical
students who have that belief,like that is such a deeply
rooted belief.
(30:38):
And so if you combine theseoutdated medical beliefs with
the mistrust of the medicalsystem, with Black women often
not being believed and then witha lifetime of like weathering
and racism on their bodies, youknow how that impacts their
hormone, their cortisol, theiradrenaline in the birth room.
Then I think that all of thosedifferent systems in place is
(30:59):
what's contributing to the deathof African-American women in
birth compared to if you look atthe maternal morbidity rates in
, say, africa, it's way morelinked to lack of resource
versus like the whole biggersystem at play.
That was a very social workanswer for you.
Clearly, I have thought I'vewritten a lot of papers about
this.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
As a birth worker, speaking as a white woman
working in birth work.
How can we help, how can wemake a positive change?
How can we change thesestatistics, change these numbers
so that our sisters and ourcounterparts are not dying in
childbirth here in the UnitedStates?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Mm, I wish that I did have a very straightforward
answer.
Obviously, it's a much biggersystem at play.
But back to the revolution.
I think that, as white women inbirth work, it's so important
that we understand this biggerpicture.
It's so important that you knowwhen I'm constantly talking
(32:04):
about how birth is political.
Birth is political, birth workis social justice work, and I
have you know.
And then I'll meet a fellowwhite doula who's just like but
no, it's not like I don't wantto get political, and I have you
know.
And then I'll meet a fellowwhite doula who's just like, but
no, it's not like I don't wantto get political.
And it's like you're, you're inthe space and the birth has
been made political.
And so like, first and foremost,just educating yourself on
these systems, like learningabout the foundation of
(32:26):
obstetrics, learning about thegranny midwives, learning about
these, these huge systemicchanges that happened and why
you know.
Like reading the articles youread, the headline of Black
women are dying at three to fourtimes the rate of white women.
Like understanding, reallybreaking down why that is
happening.
And then, any time you have theopportunity to advocate, do it
(32:48):
and whether that's advocatingwhere you're correcting someone
who's making some kind of likeyou know, like you hear somebody
say, well, black women don'tfeel pain.
It's like, no, you correct them.
Like you don't stand for thatkind of ignorance.
And that is part of our missionand that's why we're advocates
and that's why, by being a birthworker, you just default into
being a social justice advocate,because it's like we share the
(33:10):
same goal.
We want healthier birthoutcomes for everybody, for
everybody.
But when systems have beenbuilt on the back of enslaved
Black women and that's thefoundation of obstetrics oof,
there's a whole lot we need todeconstruct.
And then that ties back into somuch of the work of Whom's of
the World is that so much ofthis traditional Indigenous
knowledge in the US has beenlost and in other places it's
(33:31):
dying out so quickly.
And so we're traveling to thesecountries and handing the mic
over to these midwives that havebeen so consistently pushed
aside and like this overallglobal hierarchy of knowledge of
like the West knows best andyou have nothing to teach us.
It's like no, no, no, when itcomes to birth, y'all have been
preserving these practices forso many generations.
(33:52):
And an example in Ecuador, theregion that we travel to, they
have a 90% vaginal birth rateand it's because these midwives
especially in this particularcommunity that's supported by
traditional midwives thesemidwives are accustomed to
adjusting babies in utero fromthe get-go, like from the first
trimester they've got hands onbaby and they're making sure
that baby is head down.
I was listening to your previousepisode about vaginal breech
(34:15):
birth and they wait until 36weeks to get hands on baby and
it's so painful to try to movebaby.
Versus in that particularculture, they have hands on baby
from the get-go and they have.
It's beautiful.
And I have videos on theInstagram showing how these
traditional midwives areadjusting.
You know a baby at 20 weeks anda baby at 26 weeks and a baby
at 31 weeks, but all of thosebabies are head down.
(34:36):
It's brilliant.
So that was a very long way ofsaying please be educated and be
an advocate and speak up whenyou see injustice in Ecuador are
(35:09):
they caring for women withintheir community or for the
larger population of Ecuador.
They are mostly communitymidwives, so supporting the
women in their respectivecommunities.
The region that we go to withour groups is Northern Ecuador.
It's called Inmambura that'slike the province that it's in
and we go to a particular smalltown within that province.
But there are a lot oftraditional midwives in this
community, in this province, andthese traditional midwives have
(35:32):
never been paid for their workand they are just supporting.
You know, it's generationalknowledge and so you know.
Maybe a daughter wasaccompanying her mom at birth
when she was a kid and that'show she started learning.
But we were recently talking toone of the elders, who's in her
80s now and she's oh, mamaanita, she's so lovely and she
(35:54):
said that it was her own healingjourney that made her a midwife
, that it was her birthexperiences that gave her the
curiosity to learn about her ownwomb and her own birth, and
then she's been sharing thatwith women in her community ever
since and for many generations.
All of the births took placewith these women in homes, and
similar to what happened in theUS 120-ish years ago when it
(36:17):
went from home to hospital.
There's a whole lot of thathappening all over the world and
, like, in some instances,western medicine is amazing
Thank you for saving lives butin other instances, home birth
can be a very, very safe option,and so what I see from the
midwives that we work with isthat they do offer home births,
they do work with women and dohome births, but they also have
(36:40):
built relationships with theclinics in the community and so
if they do need to have atransfer situation, or if a mom
is more comfortable birthing atthe hospital, she still has all
of her follow-up with thecommunity midwife, like with one
of our midwives, and then herpostpartum support with the
community midwife that goes toher house, but she might birth
at the hospital.
And then these hospitals innorthern Ecuador, the one I
(37:03):
again, if you go on Instagram, Ihave a video of this, but
there's a birth room at thehospital in Otavalo.
So I was telling you how I waswalking around looking for my
friend's cousin and we ended upgetting a tour and then we ended
up going back there.
So I've been there.
I spent quite to the clinicbecause there's a huge mistrust,
of course, between, like theindigenous people and and like
Western, what they calloccidental medicine.
(37:30):
So they're not so keen on goingto the hospital.
So they designed this birth roomthat's supposed to kind of
mimic an indigenous home andit's a big room and it's low
lighting and they've gotpainting on the wall and they've
got squat bars on the wall witha mattress, and then in the
middle of the room they have abig rope hanging and a birthing
stool underneath it, on top ofthe mattress, and they've got
birthing balls and they've gotmusic and it's just like.
(37:52):
It's a vibe Like this is, thisis where to birth, this is how
to birth, no extreme overheadlighting.
I love seeing OBs catchingbabies on their stomach, like
you know, because these womenare on like deep, deep squats on
the floor, and so the entiretyof the region, I think, has done
a whole lot to support theindigenous women, because it's a
mostly indigenous populationand just creating safer birth
(38:14):
outcomes.
And so they that particularhospital has blended like they
have a resident traditionalmidwife that works there
full-time, and then they alsoallow traditional midwives to
accompany moms essentially astheir doula, like what we would
consider the scope of practiceof a doula?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Do you find that many of the women who come and
experience Wombs of the Worldtake the ancestral wisdom that
they're learning and bring itback into their birth work in
their home countries?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
It's a conversation that we have regularly on our
trips is the difference betweencultural appreciation and
cultural appropriation, and so Ithink that, off the bat, the
fact that they're investing andtraveling all the way there and
spending the time and learningdirectly from the source and
having it be shared with so muchblessing is great permission to
(39:04):
use it.
But the thing that we mostlytalk about is like, okay, you're
going to take this home because, yes, my intention for them is
like add more tools to yourtoolbox.
You know, be really pumpedabout what you're learning and
you want to share it.
So, whether that's a postpartumclosing of the bones or a
rebozo adjustment in like latepregnancy to ease pain, you know
(39:25):
things along those lines, Iwant for them to go home and be
able to practice that, and partof that practice is sharing
where the knowledge comes fromand honoring our teachers and
honoring their teachers and likethe entire lineage of this
knowledge.
So that is, yeah, that's like acore theme of Wounds of the
World.
Is that conversation?
And there's an elder there thatwe meet with in Ecuador.
(39:48):
His name is Taitai Oscar andhe's like an amazing healer in
the community, very, verypowerful man, and he told us
this story about how, for manygenerations, they had to hide
all of their seeds of knowledgebecause, as you know, colonizers
were coming in and changingtheir way of life.
They had to hide all of theirseeds of knowledge because, as
colonizers were coming in andchanging their way of life, they
had to protect this knowledge,this traditional generational
(40:10):
wisdom that had been passed down, and they took all of those
seeds and they hid them away.
And now, in the era ofglobalization, where kids are no
longer learning the mothertongues of their grandparents
for instance, like the region inEcuador, they speak Quechua
they're no longer learningQuechua, they're speaking
Spanish and they're learningEnglish because of how the world
is changing, that Tai Tai Oscartold us that now, in order to
(40:33):
protect those seeds, we have toshare them and they have to be
planted and flourish in othercountries and other places, and
that's how we're going to keepthe knowledge alive.
And I just thought that thatwas such a beautiful way of
looking at it, and also I feltlike it was him granting us
permission and granting me, forinstance, in this moment,
(40:56):
permission to share that storywith you, like nowadays, in 2025
, in order to preserve thesetraditional teachings that are
dying out with this generationof elder healers around the
world.
We have to learn it and we haveto preserve it.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Hearing that provokes so much emotion.
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah, I get really excited talking about this and
then I talk really fast and mymom's always like breathe,
breathe when you talk and I'mlike, no, please, there's so
much more.
And I was mentioning thisearlier too.
I say this jokingly and also soseriously to all of my
participants my goal for themwhen they come on a trip is I
(41:30):
want for them to be on thatplane going home feeling so
fired up to get to work.
They have so many new tools andnot only are we learning from
the midwives and the workshops,but we're learning from each
other, because you get 10 daysjust geeking out and so you're
hearing stories and you'reswapping.
I mean, I love it on day nineof a trip when I watch them
swapping their breastfeedingPowerPoints, Like that's.
You know, that's so magical forme.
(41:52):
So I want them on that planehome feeling so pumped to get to
work and to support moms and tochange their system and to
revolutionize maternal health.
And then I also want them to becompletely heartbroken that the
trip is over and that they haveto come on the next one.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
All right.
So we've talked about Ecuador,we talked about Tanzania.
I want to hear more aboutMexico.
For those who might beinterested in going to Mexico,
what would an experience withWombs of the World look like for
them?
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Our Mexico program is our newest program.
We do have a few spots left forthe trip that's going in May
this year.
So if you are a birth workerlistening or just a super
maternal health enthusiast,check it out.
Wombsoftheworldcom slash Mexico.
The program starts in MexicoCity and we spend the first
three nights in Mexico City andthen we all travel to Oaxaca
together and a differencebetween the I was mentioning
earlier like a huge differencebetween the Ecuador and the
Mexico program is that it'sMexico Like.
(42:59):
Mexico is just like.
I feel as though when I thinkback to the last trip I was on
there there's just so muchdancing and joy and laughter and
Mexico is huge and it has sucha diverse population and so many
like flavors and cultures anddifferent indigenous populations
all weaved into one country.
So we go specifically to Oaxacato learn from that particular
(43:25):
lineage and we have a fewdifferent.
So in Ecuador we are workingwith the same mother-daughter
like midwife duo and in Mexicowe have, I think, about four
different sets of teachers.
One of them is anothermother-daughter, but the mother
is renowned.
She's almost I mean she mightbe 87 by now.
(43:46):
She was 86 last time I saw her.
I don't know when her birthdayis, but she's 86.
Her name is Doña Keta.
She's had books published abouther.
She's just amazing.
She has been to so many birthsand she has trained so many
generations of midwives afterher, and her daughter
specializes in healing traumaeither before or after birth.
(44:09):
So she mostly focuses on onlike victims of sexual trauma
and how birth can exacerbatethat, the that trauma for them
in motherhood.
So really amazing duo there.
But since Doña Keta is in her80s, she's not the one that's
teaching us our hands-onpractices, and so for that we
have another traditionalindigenous midwife named
Paterayu, and Yu is spelled Y-Uand she is younger, she's like
(44:34):
in her 40s, she's a young momand like her.
You know, one of my takeawaysfrom her is that before you find
your womb you have to dance,like you have to dance to
release the womb, and so we'redoing these like 30 minute,
essentially like twerk workshops, just like getting our womb in
a nice central place andloosening up the ligaments.
And that is not the vibe inEcuador Very different, very
(44:55):
different vibes.
And so Partera Yu is one of ourteachers and she's the one that
teaches us about bravotechniques and abdominal massage
and closing of the bones andshe's also a healer.
They're all amazing healers.
And then we have another set ofwomen that are traditional
midwives as well and they kindof bring the ceremonial
component to the trip.
So we do sweat lodges with themand we have cow ceremony and we
(45:15):
learn about the like Masticoastrology.
So we get like our astrologicalcharts read but it's a totally
different kind of astrology fromwhat we might be used to and we
stay in the heart of OaxacaCity and so we have these
workshops during the day andthen in the evening we have on
every single Wombs of the Worldtrip.
We eat amazing food, so we havelike an amazing dinner, but
(45:44):
then if you as the participantwant to go out and experience
Oaxaca with the music and therooftops and the mezcal, this is
the only trip that gives youthat kind of opportunity,
because all of our otherprograms were staying kind of in
the middle of nowhere andthere's definitely nothing to do
at the end of the day.
So Mexico's fun.
I can't leave out South Africanow that the other three have
been so painted.
The South Africa program is thefirst trip that's in
collaboration with someone elsewho has designed the entire trip
.
Her name is Matsila Monseyi andshe is talk about revolutionary
(46:09):
.
She is, wow, a powerhouse.
Her background she's like amother of grown children and
when she was young she startedas a nurse midwife in South
Africa and over the years hasdone tremendous work against
violence.
And in more recent years shegot her PhD in indigenous
midwifery of South Africa, andso she traveled all over South
(46:31):
Africa documenting indigenousbirth practices and at the end
of it, when she was getting herdoctorate, she was like I don't
want this information to justsit on a shelf, I should create
something and bring people here.
Echoing that exact sentiment Iwas sharing about TyTy Oscar
like.
The way to preserve this now isto share it.
You know, at a different timethe way to preserve it was to
hide it.
Now the way to preserve it isto share it.
(46:53):
And so she has put togetherthis incredible 12-day itinerary
where we travel all over aparticular like we start in
Johannesburg and then we'retraveling almost the entire time
and we end back up inJohannesburg.
So we meet with a variety ofdifferent midwives, a variety of
different schools of thought,and then also are blending in
the beauty of South Africa and,again, similar to Tanzania, we
(47:16):
can't go all the way therewithout going on a game drive or
a safari and experiencing thelocal food, the local markets.
There's just the local culture.
And so Mozilla is my partner inthis and we have our first trip
.
I haven't been before, but wehave our first trip coming up in
April and I think it's going tobe really amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
What's next for Charlotte, brielle and Wombs of
the World?
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Oh, there's so many things I've been jokingly
talking about, how I have somany different pots cooking and
I'm doing everything to avoid akitchen fire.
What I'm currently working onis essentially a full spectrum
doula training.
I feel as though wombs of theworld is very uniquely
positioned to bring a globalnarrative to the conversation
(48:00):
around birth, and also, reallyone of my biggest passions about
doula work is howentrepreneurial it is, and so
really just wanting to get likeI was saying earlier, like just
getting more foot soldiers inthis revolution, getting more
like the goal is to get morebirth workers actually
supporting moms, and so that issomething I'm currently working
on.
I recently released two courses.
(48:22):
One is a childbirth educationcourse.
It's called Preparing forParenthood and it's essentially
my like love letter as a doulato all the expectant parents,
and it weaves in wisdom from theparticipants on our trips, like
from the doulas I've had theopportunity to spend time with.
It has insights from the over100 births I've attended insight
as, like the social worker thatI am, you know.
(48:43):
So it's full of insight.
And then the other program Irecently launched is called the
Doula Launchpad and the idea forthat is like okay, you finish
your three-day doula training.
Now what are you supposed to do?
So?
The Doula Launchpad has all ofthe essentials that you need to
get started, from contracts tochildbirth education,
powerpoints to how to build yourwebsite, how to hack AI to help
(49:05):
you as a doula.
You know there's all kinds oftutorials in there, so those
essentially audience.
If those sell, we can do so muchwe can we can.
The proceeds from that aregoing directly to our foundation
, and our foundation, the Wombsof the World Foundation, is
buying neonatal equipment forthe clinics in Tanzania.
It is supporting a traditionalmidwifery school in Ecuador.
(49:26):
It is providing scholarships toglobal birth workers.
For instance, recently wesupported a woman in Tanzania to
become trained in sonography sothat she can operate the
portable ultrasound machine forthe mobile clinic that we're
working on so that more women inrural villages can get better
health care.
And we can't do any of thiswithout more engagement and
(49:47):
people buying the courses andsigning up for trips and, you
know, becoming sponsors.
So I'm just trying to trying todo a lot, lots of pots cooking,
but it's happening because Iget the opportunity every single
day to connect with reallypassionate birth workers all
over the place.
And again, I know, when we cometogether, magic happens, so I'm
just trusting the ride.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
And I think the ride for you has just begun.
What you're doing is amazing.
I'm honored that you have takenthe time to sit and chat with
me and share your stories, shareyour truth.
Thank you so much.
Any of the listeners who wantto learn more about Charlotte
Brielle and the wombs of theworld, I will leave all the
(50:38):
information with the release ofthis podcast episode.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
I just want to thank you, stephanie.
I want to thank you forcreating this kind of space to
have these conversations, forwanting to contribute to the
story so that your listeners,whether they're pregnant people
or they're birth workers, feellike they have more tools to do
this.
Thank you so much for creatingthis kind of opportunity and
platform.
And if you're a birth worker,praise you, keep it up.
And if you're a birth worker,praise you keep it up.
(51:02):
And if you're a mom, listeningpraise you.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
keep it up.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to check out our socialmedia.
All links are provided in theepisode description.
We're excited to have you here.
Please give us a follow If youor someone you know would like
to be a guest on the show.
Reach out to us via email atinfo at maternalwealthcom.
(51:35):
And remember stay healthy,embrace your power, and you got
this.
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