April 2, 2025 • 46 mins
Parenthood's invisible work begins long before birth. In this eye-opening conversation with Paige Connell (SheIsAPaigeTurner), we explore how the mental load of motherhood silently shapes women's experiences from conception through pregnancy, birth, and beyond.
Paige reveals how women carry unseen responsibilities even before pregnancy—tracking ovulation, researching prenatal care, planning for conception—while these tasks rarely fall to their partners. Once pregnancy begins, the disparity widens as women download apps, research birth options, investigate childcare, and make countless preparations while simultaneously growing a human. This invisible labor continues through labor and birth, where partners often lack the knowledge to properly advocate for birthing women without specific preparation.
We examine the societal conditioning that creates this imbalance, where girls are groomed for caregiving from childhood while boys receive minimal guidance about future fatherhood. Paige shares candid insights leading to her advocacy work helping couples communicate more effectively about sharing responsibilities.
The conversation also tackles systemic barriers facing working parents, from inadequate childcare to inflexible workplaces and insufficient family leave policies that force impossible choices, particularly for mothers. Paige offers practical strategies for couples to recognize invisible labor, redistribute responsibilities more equitably, and create healthier partnership models for themselves and their children.
Ready to transform your relationship and create more balance in your home? Learn how to understand how making the invisible visible is the first step toward authentic partnership in parenthood. Follow Paige for more resources, and watch her upcoming audio course, "How to Talk to Your Partner about the Mental Load," on having productive conversations about sharing the mental load.
Music Credit
https://uppbeat.io/t/ra/cupcake
https://uppbeat.io/t/bosnow/lucky-day
https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/that-groove
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie Theriault (00:11):
Welcome to the Maternal Wealth Podcast, a
space for all things related tomaternal health, pregnancy and
beyond.
I'm your host, stephanie Terrio.
I'm a labor and delivery nurseand a mother to three beautiful
boys.
Each week, we dive intoinspiring stories and expert
insights to remind us of thepower that you hold in
childbirth and motherhood.
We're here to explore the joys,the challenges and the
(00:34):
complexities of maternal health.
Every mother's journey isunique and every story deserves
to be told.
Please note that this podcastis for entertainment purposes
only.
It is not intended to replaceprofessional medical advice,
diagnosis or treatment.
Always consult with yourhealthcare provider for medical
guidance that is tailored toyour specific needs.
(00:55):
Are you ready?
Let's get into it.
Today we are doing something alittle different.
(01:19):
I have my sister, rachelMenendez, who is my partner here
at Maternal Wealth, to welcomeand chat with Paige Connell.
I'm going to turn over the micto Rachel to introduce our guest
.
Paige Connell (01:38):
Today we welcome Paige Connell, a working mom of
four, who is known asSheIsAPaigeTurner on TikTok,
facebook and Instagram, whereshe shares relatable viral
content about the mental load ofmotherhood and advocates for
childcare, paid family leave andequity in the household.
She has been featured on scarymommy, the today's show, good
morning America, and has workedclosely with organizations like
(02:01):
carecom, moms first, fair playcare and across generations, and
mother forward page has createdseveral with organizations like
Carecom, moms First, fair Play,caring, across Generations and
Mother Forward.
Paige has created severalresources to help parents and
their partners navigateconversations and learn how to
take actions to help manage andalleviate the mental load of
motherhood.
Today, we plan to focus on howpregnancy, labor, birth and
(02:21):
caring for a newborn pertain tothe mental load and what it's
like to carry the invisible work, constant planning and
childcare that often falls onwomen, emphasizing the need for
equal responsibility andpartnership.
Let's welcome Paige to the show.
Stephanie Theriault (02:37):
Thank you so much for having me.
We are so excited to have youhere.
Paige Connell (02:41):
We would love for you to share with our listeners
what the mental load is, andwhen did you have that aha
moment realizing this mentalload inherently or
systematically affects women inour society more than men.
Sure.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So I didn't know the word mental load probably until
my fourth child was born and Ithink I heard it on a podcast.
So to be honest, I wasn'tfamiliar with it and didn't
recognize how it was showing upin my own life for quite a while
.
But once I did, once I becamefamiliar with the term, I
started to kind of see how itshows up in everyday life,
(03:15):
whether it's in just ourrelationships with our siblings
or our friends, our parents, butmost specifically our
relationships with our partners.
And I think the mental load inparticular is a buzzword.
Right now.
Everybody is talking about themental load, but I think most
people think about it as itrelates to their relationship
with their partner and parenting, specifically Because I think
(03:39):
parenting has a unique way ofreally increasing the mental
load that women in particularfeel, and I say that because
women do a disproportionateamount of work when they have
children, whether it's childcareor domestic labor, and along
with that comes the mental load.
Stephanie Theriault (03:56):
Considering the mental load regarding women
getting pregnant, whetherthrough choice, meaning welcome
intercourse, ivf or IUI.
How does the mental load affectwomen in the moment that they
find out that they're pregnant?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I actually think the mental load affects women before
they find out they're pregnant.
Obviously, again, talking aboutwhen it is intentional and as
planned as possible, I would saymost women are in charge of
things like monitoring theirovulation right.
They're the person talking totheir OB about when is it
appropriate to get off birthcontrol and if I'm off birth
(04:32):
control, should I be taking aprenatal.
These are things that women aredoing typically even before
they're trying to conceive, tomake sure that they can set
themselves and their partner upfor success in that journey.
And so I think oftentimes wethink about the mental load as
being something that happenspost birth.
I actually think it happenswell before pregnancy.
I think women tend to be theones responsible for navigating
(04:54):
what that journey trying toconceive looks like, and so I
think it starts there.
But obviously, again, whenyou're pregnant, I think,
especially if you're a birthingperson and even if not I adopted
my two older children I thinkit tends to fall
disproportionately to women.
Because there's this assumptionthat women inherently know and
(05:16):
because it's our bodies,oftentimes we assume that we
should take on theresponsibility, right, so we're
the person going to the doctor'sappointments and taking the
medications, we're the personwith the app on our phone
telling us how big our baby isand what we should be doing.
We're the person askingquestions and doing research on
doulas or midwives.
Typically, women are doing that,and it's not that men are not
(05:38):
capable of participating in that, but oftentimes I think we've
positioned it as something thatwomen inherently know how to do,
that we're just good at it, andthat our bodies know what to do
.
So, therefore, we must know whatto do too.
And what I know to be true frommy own experiences is the
second I became pregnant.
I was asking everyone I knewwho had been pregnant before me
(05:59):
a million questions, and I wasresearching online and I was
downloading the apps and I wastalking to my doctor and even
towards the end of pregnancy, Iwas checking my blood pressure.
I was doing all of these things, and this work is not nothing
right.
It adds up and a lot of it isinvisible.
It's that researching, it'sthat behind the scenes work that
tends to happen, and I thinkit's really important that we
(06:22):
acknowledge that and address howour partners can participate in
that work, because I actuallythink this is a huge part of
preparing our partners for whatparenting is like, because so
much of parenting is gatheringknowledge and information and
building community, and so oftenthat falls to women.
Stephanie Theriault (06:39):
So much of what you're saying resonates
with me and when I'minterviewing other women for the
podcast, I also have threechildren and in my work with the
patients and seeing all thepreparation that goes into just
getting to the point ofdelivering a child showing up at
the hospital, there's so muchthat goes into it that I think
even when I'm in the room withmy patients, the partner doesn't
(07:03):
even realize all the work thatwomen have done to get to that
point to be where they are readyto birth their children.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, 100%.
I think so often our partnersare sometimes clueless, right
Even going into the hospital.
They don't know what's in ourbaby bag.
They know what's in theirs, butthey don't know what's in ours.
They don't know why we'repacking diapers and ice packs.
They don't know that.
But that is stuff that womenspend so much time learning and
(07:31):
trying to understand.
And I think if you're in arelationship where you have a
partner and they'reparticipating, they're going to
be at the hospital with you orwherever you're birthing.
It's important for them tounderstand that and to know and
to be a participant.
And my husband didn't know anyof that going into the hospital.
He knew it coming out, that'sfor sure, and was super helpful
and hands-on when we were there.
But wouldn't it have been niceif he also was researching what
(07:55):
will my wife need in thehospital after birth?
Wouldn't it have been nice ifhe had been researching what
happens if she ultimately endsup with a C-section?
What will she need?
What will her care look like?
I was doing that work right?
And I think so often again, weplace this burden on women and
birthing people because we say,hey, you're the person with the
baby in your belly, you have todo this right and it falls to
(08:17):
you when, in reality, we canboth be doing this work and we
can be having conversationsabout it and talking about how
to support one another.
And that is the mental load,that invisible work that we're
doing to prepare.
And it's not nothing.
It can be a lot and it can beincredibly stressful, I think,
especially when you're havingyour first, it's stressful, but
even with the second, third, Ithink about things you know you
(08:38):
were talking about preparing toget to the hospital.
It's like who's watching ourkids?
What do we need to tell daycare?
Does daycare have the rightperson listed for pickup?
How do we make sure that iftomorrow I go into labor,
everything is good for our otherchildren?
That is a lot of work, and so Ithink oftentimes we just don't
(08:58):
recognize how much these littlethings truly add up.
Stephanie Theriault (09:03):
Coming from the perspective of a labor and
delivery nurse, I feel likeeverything that we're talking
about about the invisible mentalload also contributes to what
I'm seeing as an uptick of womenwho are choosing pregnancy and
parenthood without a partner.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you also believe that thiscould be attributed to the
(09:23):
invisible mental load?
Doing it alone specificallyyeah, so women who are choosing
IVF, they're choosing IUI,they're choosing to be a parent,
to be a mother and havechildren without a partner.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I like to say this Everyone has the mental load,
right.
It just looks differentdepending on your situation
Whether you have kids, you don'thave kids.
How many kids do you have?
Do you have a partner?
Don't you have a partner?
What kind of support system doyou have?
Right?
In some instances this mightsound crazy, but a woman with a
husband might have more mentalload than a solo parent, because
not only are they preparing fora child, they're doing the work
for another person, andsometimes, when you talk to
women, they.
And sometimes, when you talk towomen, they say, honestly, the
(10:02):
most exhausting thing is myhusband, not the kids, not all
that stuff, it's him and theamount of work that he adds to
my plate.
And now, that's a somewhatcynical view and I don't think
that's the case of most men,right, but I think that is
aversion, right.
But when you're a solo parent,I've definitely heard from a lot
of single moms in particularwho say you know, yes, I have
this same mental load, I havethese same problems, but it
(10:24):
really depends on your village,right?
Do you have support?
What does that support looklike?
Both paid, outsourced support,but also a village that maybe
you've created, and sometimesthat can alleviate the mental
load.
Sometimes it doesn't.
I think it's really just adifferent version.
I think in both scenariosthere's a lot of work involved
(10:44):
and a lot of mental load, but Ido think there, systemically and
logistically, it's a lot ofwork to be a single parent.
It is a ton of work and youdon't have that secondary person
to fall back on if you get theflu and say, hey, you've got the
kids tonight.
You don't have that, or maybeyou do in the form of a village.
I think it just really depends.
(11:05):
And I imagine that most peoplewho go into solo parenting or
choosing to parent on their ownhave these conversations with
themselves about okay, what do Ineed?
And I think the hard part is Idon't know how you all feel.
But I think the hardest part iswe don't know what we don't
know.
So so much of this happens andwe go oh my gosh, I wish I'd
known this before.
(11:25):
You know, I had kids and Iwould have prepared differently,
I would have had differentconversations.
And that's the tricky partabout all of this, especially as
parents.
There's just some things youwill never know until you are a
parent.
You just can't possiblyunderstand it.
Stephanie Theriault (11:39):
I agree a hundred percent.
Paige Connell (11:41):
And just related to what you were just saying, I
think it's great that we havethis access to like social media
and accounts like yours, wherepeople who have kind of gone
through this already and you'resharing this information with
people.
Like you say, we're doing theresearch, but we have I feel
like we have so much moreinformation now than we used to,
where we know these terms likethe mental load and visible
(12:02):
labor, so we want to find outhow that's going to affect our
lives, and so they find pageslike yours, talk about it and
break it down Like this is whatto expect, this is what I'm
going through, and I thinkthat's really helpful for people
where, even when they get tothat point, they're going to be
going through their own you knowissues and things that they
have to get through, but atleast they have these resources
that can they can be like okay,this is what I can do, this is
(12:25):
what I can rely on, this is whatI can do moving forward.
So I think it's really helpfulfor people to have that
information available.
So thank you for sharing thatinformation.
I know you've had a lot goingon, so it's great that you've
been able to get that out there.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I think it's.
You know, a lot of times whenyou talk to women in particular
about their experience ofparenthood, they will say you
know, I was really angry, I feltlike nobody told me the truth,
nobody told me the reality.
And there's often this ideathat like we can't really tell
expecting parents the truthbecause we'll scare them, right
(12:57):
Like we'll scare them.
And I think I even saw a comedybit once from a comedian.
It was a man who was like ohyeah, parents are always like
come on, do it, it'll be so fun.
And then when you do, they'relike ha ha ha, we tricked you,
you're in it now with us.
And it's like we kind ofsugarcoat it sometimes to new
expecting parents.
And I don't think that's fair.
I don't think we should scareanyone or give worst case
(13:20):
scenarios, but I think bysugarcoating the experience
specifically I think aboutpostpartum and what that can
feel like and all the emotionstied to it and also the impact
on your marriage orrelationships by sugarcoating
those things, we set people upto fail and we set people up to
feel like individually they didsomething wrong or they didn't
(13:41):
do enough research or theydidn't pick the right partner.
And so often most of ourstruggles are a result of
systemic issues, societalconditioning and expectations
and the fact that we just don'ttalk about it.
And we don't talk about itbecause we're afraid and we have
shame and we don't want to.
It can be embarrassing Tellingyour friend like hey, fyi, a
(14:04):
week after you have a baby, youmight wake up soaking wet and
need to change your whole outfitand your sheets.
Nobody said that to me and Iwish they had.
I wish somebody had said hey,this is some of the crazy stuff
that might happen and if it does, it's okay.
So often we keep that toourselves and we wonder am I
normal?
Is this normal?
And I think it can create justthis cycle where we continue to
(14:27):
encounter pregnancy andpostpartum and relationships
without all the information,which can be really difficult to
navigate.
Paige Connell (14:33):
Yeah, absolutely For sure.
A lot of people that I workwith they haven't had children
yet.
I'm just like, if they dodecide to go down that path, I'm
always thinking about if theycome to me and they're like,
tell me what it's like abouthaving kids, and I'm like, okay,
how can I present this to themin a way that's like realistic,
but also I don't want to scarethem either.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's the thing.
I don't think we should scareanyone, but I think you know
everyone I know who's had achild or given birth.
When we get together I don'tknow if you guys experienced
this like I will meet a mom atthe park for the first time and
she'll be telling me about herhemorrhoids and we're just like
talking because it's like, onceyou've done it, you're like,
okay, we need, and you'retalking to someone else who's
(15:13):
done it.
You're like, okay, let's talkabout it, cause that was crazy.
And I feel like I find thatpeople on the other side of
birth tend to share informationwith each other, but they don't
tend to share it with people whoare expecting, necessarily, and
so it's like, behind the smokeand mirrors of it, all right and
yeah, I don't think we want toscare anyone and I would never
(15:34):
want anybody to feel like that,but I do want people to feel
prepared and I wish I had beenmore prepared for certain
aspects of pregnancy and birthand postpartum, and I'm not
blaming anyone.
I just think that nobody reallytold me and I didn't see it
online and I tried to stay awayfrom the scary baby boards and
(15:56):
so it was really eye-opening toactually walk through it myself,
and I think it's just importantthat we have that perspective
as we proceed together.
Paige Connell (16:05):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I definitely agree on that.
Stephanie Theriault (16:16):
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Paige Connell (17:14):
How does the invisible mental load affect
women during their pregnancy?
So we can even break it down bytrimesters.
Do you think that the invisiblemental load during the first
trimester looks different fromthe second trimester or even the
third?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, so I think it's important to say what the
mental load is.
So the mental load is ofteninvisible, and so you might call
it invisible labor, but it alsohas things involved like
cognitive labor or emotionallabor, and so those are the
things we've talked about, right, the researching, the managing
and monitoring, right, like, doI feel a kick?
Do I not feel a kick?
(17:47):
Am I kick counting or not kickcounting?
Right, like all of these thingsthat we have to be thinking
about throughout our days doingresearch, whether it's like on
the best hospital, or what kindof methods you want to use after
, are you breastfeeding or notbreastfeeding.
All of these things tend tofall to women.
But I think also anotherportion that often doesn't get
acknowledged as often is theemotional labor involved and the
(18:09):
work of managing your emotionsand your partner's emotions, and
that's a big part of pregnancy,I think, is that there's a lot
of unknowns, and, especially foranyone who's experienced any
kind of pregnancy loss, I thinkthere's a huge amount of
emotional labor that goes intothe mental load during pregnancy
(18:32):
.
As a person myself, I had twopregnancy losses and then
ultimately did IVF, my firstsuccessful pregnancy.
I remember feeling crazyanxious, yes, pretty much the
entire time.
I never felt like I felt quoteunquote what I used to tell my
therapist I don't feel safe, Idon't feel like she's safe and I
(18:52):
don't feel like I'm safe.
And I felt that way the entiretime, and so I was constantly
trying to manage my emotions,too, where it was like, don't be
stressed, you'll hurt the baby,but then being stressed because
I was worried about the baby,and it was this whole experience
that I think oftentimes, unlessyou've kind of gone through
that experience, it can bereally hard to recognize how
(19:12):
much work that is right thattook a mental toll on me, and so
not only was I constantlyresearching and learning and
building out plans, but I wasalso managing all of these big
emotions and also planning forwhat our future was going to
look like.
Looking into daycares, right.
So every trimester obviouslybrings something different, but
I think there's also real work,right.
(19:34):
It's like who's buying orplanning the registry, who's
getting on a daycare waitlist orinterviewing nannies, who's
doing this work, who'sconsulting with the state to
make sure we're going to be ableto get paid leave.
All of that is also a ton ofwork that tends to come along
with being a pregnant person, orjust an expecting parent, and
so that work, too, cannot bediscounted.
(19:55):
That is a ton of work and addsa layer of stress and complexity
to an already really busy timeof life.
Stephanie Theriault (20:05):
I want to talk about the mental load, the
invisible mental load, when wego into labor, wherever we
choose to deliver, whether it'sin the hospital, in a birth
center, at home.
Often I see this hands-offapproach when it comes to the
partner at the bedside.
When the woman is in labor andI think about how the mental
load is for laboring right, shehas to be in the zone, she has
(20:27):
to be in a safe space, and menare asking me, or partners, male
partners, are asking how can Isupport her, what can I do?
And for me I can guide and help.
But it's also a little bitfrustrating because I think that
this question should have beenasked before the moment of labor
has begun.
What kind of advice do you havefor partners to help prepare
(20:52):
outside of, like a birthingclass or a mom's class for male
partners to prepare to supportwomen in the act of labor and
birth?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
So I'm definitely not an expert on this, but I think
you know, at least not in birth.
I've only done it twice.
So I will say from myexperience to your point I think
I wish more men were readingthe books.
I wish more men were followingaccounts.
I wish more men were askingquestions and coming to
appointments.
I wish more men were havingconversations with their partner
about what they want and whatthey don't want.
(21:22):
Right, at what point are youcomfortable with an epidural
versus not right?
What do you need from me whenit comes to advocacy?
How do I advocate for yourneeds when you can't right?
Because I think I jokingly tellpeople like I pushed for like
four and a half hours.
I blacked that out.
I don't remember it.
I don't In the moment.
I remember opening my eyes atone point and being like how
(21:43):
long has it been?
And my husband's like a wow,but I don't remember physically
being present.
I was really in it becausethere's so much happening and I
knew that I could trust myhusband to advocate for me.
And my husband was actuallyincredibly hands-on the entire
birth.
But I think, knowing that ifI'm not capable of answering a
(22:04):
question, he is and he canadvocate for me and tell them
what I want and what I don'twant and I think that is a huge
part of it too, andunderstanding like, okay, a lot
of women know, depending on thehospital, like some hospitals
are going to tell you you can'teat, but you can talk to them
about when you do want to eatand why you want to eat or what
that looks like, right.
And so I don't think as manymen are knowledgeable on that
(22:26):
part of it, right, about kind ofwhat a patient's rights are.
And I even learned, like youcan request a different nurse.
You can be like no, this isn'tworking, I need a different
nurse.
And I don't think men are doingthe work to prepare for those
situations beforehand.
And I really wish couples inparticular would kind of sit
down and hash out this plan andsay, okay, if this happens, we
(22:49):
do this, if this happens, we dothis, and if the unexpected
happens, which it often does,let's talk about how we want to
think about the end goal.
So I really just think it'sreally just about working
together.
I think, again, we reallyassume that women are just going
to lead the charge on this andthat birthing people are just
going to lead the charge and menare going to take a backseat,
(23:09):
and I don't think they have to.
I don't think they have to takea backseat.
I think they can come to thetable and say, hey, I've been
doing some research and what doyou think about this?
And having them know like, yeah, nope, she doesn't want to push
on her back, she wants to pushthis way.
Being able to have thoseconversations and have men be
just as knowledgeable as womenare, would be hugely impactful
in supporting a partner.
Stephanie Theriault (23:30):
These conversations are also so
important to have to discusswhat is wanted for the baby once
the baby's born.
So knowing what the mom wants.
Does the mom want a breastfeed?
Does the mom want a bottle feed?
What medications are you okaywith or not okay with?
So, if the mom is not in astate where she can really make
those decisions, knowing aheadof time what, as a couple, you
(23:51):
want for the baby, yeah for sure.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
I mean, I had a really complicated first birth
and I ended up in the ORimmediately after my daughter
was born and so my husband wasleft alone with the baby and he
was like, first off, that waslike the scariest moment of my
life.
And I was with this baby and Iwas like, uh, and they're like,
well, what is she trying to do?
Is she trying to breastfeed?
Is she doing formula?
And he we had talked about itso he knew, um, but he was like,
(24:16):
yeah, the nurses were allasking me, right, and so I think
it is important for them toknow do you want the medication
on their eyes or not?
Right, do you want to do thosethings?
I think a lot of people maybedon't have those in-depth
conversations with theirpartners and sometimes you know,
we don't know.
Again, we don't know what wedon't know.
But a lot of people are doingthat research beforehand and a
(24:38):
lot of women know the answers tothose questions and a lot of
men don't.
And I think that's the missingpiece and this continues often
into, you know, parenting thesenewborn babies.
I even think in the hospital, alot of times women will tell
you like every time the nursecomes into the room, they say
mom, how's the baby?
But they don't say dad, how'sthe baby?
Right, like again, thisresponsibility is placed on mom,
(24:59):
even though mom is alsorecovering.
And so why aren't we saying tothe dad oh, when's the last time
the baby ate?
And letting mom rest, forexample, like let her take a
beat and ask dad that question?
All of these things with themental load and these kind of
disparities between men andwomen, I think happened so very
early on.
Paige Connell (25:16):
I saw on your site that next month April 2025,
you are releasing an audiocourse about how to have
productive conversations withyour partner, about sharing the
mental load.
You've talked about theimbalance of the mental load
with your husband, especiallywhen it reached the point where
you are considering divorce,which I'm sure was a very
difficult time.
Could you share with us how thenew course will help guide
(25:37):
women who find themselves in asimilar situation to have a
healthy and productiveconversation with their partner,
particularly during the newbornand postpartum phase, or any
other phase that you would liketo talk about?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah.
So I think this is actually acourse you can take really at
any point in a relationship, andmy goal here I like to be clear
about this I'm not this magictool that will save every
marriage, but what I want it tobe is a tool to help you have
these conversations, to haveproductive conversations with
your partner about the mentalload, because I think what often
happens is the mental load iskind of like a snowball right
(26:12):
it's rolling down a hill and asit does it picks up snow and it
gets bigger and bigger andfaster and faster, and one day
you look and the snowball is nowa snowman or a massive boulder
right of snow.
And that is how I think aboutthe mental load.
It is typically not somethingthat feels heavy overnight.
It adds up over time and Ithink kids in particular really
(26:33):
tip the scales when it comes tothe mental load.
And, like we said earlier inthis conversation, I think
oftentimes we're told that thisis kind of an individual issue
that we have to solve and thatignores the reality is that
there are so many things, youknow, from societal conditioning
and expectations to systemicbarriers like the lack of paid
parental leave and the lack ofaffordable childcare.
All of these things, I think,play into how the mental load
(26:57):
works in a relationshipspecifically between a man and a
woman, but just in general.
And so having theseconversations can bring up a lot
of emotions, and I think thenumber one thing you'll hear
from women in particular is thatthey feel resentful of their
partner and you often hear thistoo in having a newborn.
And women will say it's like mywhole life changed and his
didn't at all.
(27:17):
And they'll say because it'slike my body changed, everything
about my life has changed andit feels like his life is mostly
unchanged.
And I think that is something alot of women feel when it comes
to the mental load too.
And sometimes when we bring upthese conversations, we want to
really address it with ourpartner and ultimately what
happens is we just end upfighting about the laundry, for
(27:38):
example, and we don't get to theroot cause of the issue, and
oftentimes it can feel like anus against them problem when it
comes to the mental load.
You're not doing enough, I'mdoing everything, and then what
men hear is you're awful, andthen they get defensive, and
then there's a lot of shame andthen it just becomes this fight
and we don't actually getanywhere.
(27:58):
And so the goal with the courseis that we build the tools and
understanding to be able toarticulate the mental load, to
be able to make the mental loadvisible, because that's a big
part of this conversation.
It's mostly invisible, and sothe person who's not responsible
for it truly doesn't see it andor acknowledge it, and so it
can be incredibly hard to get onthe same page about what
(28:20):
sharing that looks like.
But also tools to have thisconversation, ways to address
common roadblocks right, likethe idea that there's this
common narrative that women arenagged.
That is actually something thatis much more complex than I
think people realize, and so inthe course we really do a deep
dive into all the things thatare at play as it pertains to
(28:42):
the mental load.
So that way we are bestequipped to have a conversation
with our partner that willactually be productive and will
hopefully result in meaningfulchange.
And I think one thing I will sayis I think this course is
helpful for anyone who wants tounderstand the mental load
better and have conversationsabout it.
But in order to actually changethis dynamic in our
(29:02):
relationships, we do have tohave willing and able partners
who are open to engaging inthese conversations, because
these conversations are very,very layered and there's a lot
of deeply rooted ideas aboutourselves and our value that we
have to unpack when we havethese conversations, and it can
be really tricky.
And so, one, I like to givepeople grace.
(29:22):
But, two, I think it's reallyimportant to note that your
partner can't really be draggedalong through this process, but
it doesn't mean it's notpossible.
I know a lot of men who want tobe amazing dads.
They want to be amazingpartners, and truly, I think
we've all been done a very hugedisservice by the way that we've
been raised and theexpectations that have been
(29:44):
placed on men and women, andspecifically with parenting, I
think the bar is incredibly highfor moms and very low for dads.
And why is that?
There's so many reasons whythat is, and I think it's really
important that we have theseconversations to unpack all of
that.
Paige Connell (29:59):
Well, that sounds amazing.
Yeah, I think that will bereally helpful for a lot of
people who want to have theseconversations but haven't done
it in a productive way that theyactually get results that they
need to make their lives betterand more sustainable.
It reminds me a lot.
I saw on your website you hadtalked about Fair Play.
It reminds me of when that bookcame out I think it was five or
(30:20):
six years ago.
What a big deal it was, becauseit talked about this mental
load and also tried to givetools and resources for people
to use, about having thoseconversations, but also having
it broken down in a way thattheir partner could actually see
all the work that they weredoing and how it needed to be
(30:41):
distributed more evenly and totry and come up with ways to
make that happen and I saw onyour website that you were
associated with thatorganization as well, or you
worked with them, I believe andcome up with ways to make that
happen and I saw on your websitethat you were associated with
that organization as well, oryou worked with them, I believe.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, I'm a Fair Play facilitator, so I've kind of
gone through their training andI'm able to talk about the
training and go into kind of howcouples can navigate Fair Play.
That is where I started myjourney with this whole thing
was Fair Play.
I heard Eve Rodsky on a podcastand it really just opened my
eyes to what I was experiencing,because prior to that I really
couldn't articulate it, andhaving the words to articulate
(31:13):
what was happening to me madeall the difference.
It really was such a gamechanger, and so I think what Eve
has done with Fair Play and nowthe Fair Play Institute is
absolutely amazing.
I think it's a great jumping offpoint for couples and I think
the game in particular is really, really helpful for navigating
a way to hold ourselvesaccountable to this work and
(31:34):
sharing it in a way that feelsequitable, because oftentimes I
think we have the bestintentions and our partners will
say like, yes, I'll do more,but it's too vague, it doesn't
really give us tools to moveforward in a way that holds both
of us accountable and hasstructure, and I really do think
we need that.
Our homes are kind of like abusiness and Eve says as much
and relationships aren't abusiness our partnerships with
(31:55):
our partners and ourrelationships with our kids but
the actual home laundry, cooking, cleaning bills, buying food,
all these things it is kind oflike a business and so it's
important that we work togetherto manage it.
And my goal for all couples whokind of either go through Fair
Play or any of my tools is tohave a marriage where things are
(32:17):
thriving, where your home runslike a well-oiled machine or
company, because when it does,it gives you more time to enjoy
your life.
You're no longer worried aboutwhether or not you have
groceries or clean dishes.
You just know that things areworking.
Yeah.
Paige Connell (32:32):
I think that's the dream for a lot of people to
have a happy, healthy home andit's nice that there's tools out
there that people can utilizeto get to that point.
You did talk about how the baris so high for moms, but I also
see on your social media youtalk a lot about how society is
just not set up for workingmothers, which I think you also
touched on earlier as well, andyou're a working parent.
(32:55):
Stephanie and I are workingparents too, so we understand
what it's like being in thethick of it.
Do you want to talk a littlebit more about why the society
is just not set up for workingparents at this time?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah, sure, I mean I think overall.
You know our society was builtwith the idea that there would
be somebody at home doing theunpaid labor to manage a home
and to raise kids, and eventhough that's not rooted in any
kind of reality, I like to callthat out.
Women have always worked, mostwomen have always worked, but
there's this narrative that youknow historically they didn't.
(33:26):
But our workplaces inparticular are not set up in a
way that is conducive to raisingchildren in this current world.
School days typically my kidsgo to school from 9 to 3.
Most work days go from 9 to 5.
So what does that mean?
I either need after-school careor a nanny, or I need to adjust
my work hours or cut back atthe office.
(33:47):
A lot of people only get 5 sickdays.
My kids have been sick probably25 days so far this year, and
so there's not enough sick timefor parents to recover if they
get sick, but to care for theirown children.
Our daycares, and childcare inparticular in this country, are
incredibly expensive.
It is a privatized industry asopposed to social infrastructure
(34:10):
, like many of our peercountries, and so families are
paying astronomical amounts ofmoney for childcare, and not
only is it unaffordable?
It's inaccessible.
You often can't find safechildcare that you can afford,
and so this disproportionatelyimpacts women, who end up
leaving the workforce.
Women are twice as likely toleave the workforce or adjust
their careers to accommodate forthe lack of childcare or
childcare gaps than men.
(34:31):
We also just don't have thingslike paid leave as simple as
that.
It makes it incrediblydifficult for people to have
children and maintain a careerbecause they can't afford to
take unpaid time and they alsocan't go back with a
two-week-old baby becausethere's no childcare for a
two-week-old baby, and nor dothey want to, nor should they
(34:52):
Systemically.
The lack of paid leave, thelack of affordable childcare,
disproportionately impacts women.
But even when our kids getolder, the public school
calendar or school age calendarsare not conducive to having two
working parents.
You almost need somebody with aflexible job or arrangement or
enough money to be able tooutsource childcare at that age.
I'm even thinking about my liferight now.
(35:13):
My kids next week have two halfdays in a row Wednesday and
Thursday for parent-teacherconferences, and then the
following week they have Mondayoff.
So in one week, basicallywithin seven days there are
three days where I need toaccommodate additional childcare
, which would mean I need toeither take half days from work
or work from home with my kidsor find childcare for them, and
so a lot of working mothers inparticular are really burned out
(35:36):
and stressed because they arenavigating all of this work and
because of the societalconditioning that has basically
said like this is mom's job,they are the ones doing this
work or they tend to be the onesdoing this work, and so I think
it's really important that, aswe have these conversations, we
kind of look at the systems inplace, look at these workplaces
that really lack flexibility inorder to be able to raise kids.
(35:56):
These days, families do needmore in way of flexible
workplaces, in way of support,in way of sick time and paid
leave.
All of these things areincredibly important.
Stephanie Theriault (36:16):
Earlier you mentioned, society has done a
disservice to men and Iappreciate taking the moment to
acknowledge that there are menwho want to be equitable
partners, help in a moreequitable way, to decrease the
mental load, to share thatmental load, and thinking about
(36:36):
women who want to have theconversation, women who want to
go to your course and learn moreabout how to have the
conversation with their partners.
What advice would you give tomen who are listening to your
message, who are listening tothe podcast about breaking down
that wall?
I think there's this wall upthat they're guarded and they're
(36:57):
offended that we're evenbringing it up.
What message would you give tothem to take a step back and
listen and kind of startbreaking down that wall so they
can be the partner that theywant to be and that their wife
wants them to be.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah.
So I think it's reallyimportant that, again, we look
at all the expectations andconditioning at play.
I think a lot of men have beentaught that in order to be a
good man, a good husband, a goodfather, you have to be a
provider, you have to be aprotector.
And what does it mean to be agood provider?
I think most men associate thatwith having a good income right
(37:34):
, having a good job.
What's it mean to be a good dad?
It means to be the fun guy.
Right, like your kids, like you, they enjoy spending time with
you.
You're at dinner time with them, you show up at the soccer game
.
But I really encourage men tolook at the double standards
that exist between men and womenand really analyze them.
Right, most women these daysare working, so they are also
providing financially.
Yet women are expected to dothe daily grind of cooking and
(37:59):
cleaning and laundry and all ofthese things that make the home
function and are essentiallykind of like a symptom of having
children.
Right, like laundry is notparenting, right, it's not
really a part of parenting.
It's a symptom of havingchildren, for sure, and it's
chores, but it really doesn'thave anything to do with our
relationship with our kids, andso I encourage men to one view
(38:21):
themselves as more than apaycheck, more than a protector,
and to expand on what thosethings mean.
You can provide emotionalsupport for your family, right.
You can provide care for yourfamily, and I think a lot of men
believe that women are justinherently better at this stuff,
right.
A lot of women will hear that,like you're just better at
(38:41):
getting the baby to sleep,you're just better at getting
the baby to stop crying.
Well, oftentimes women aren'tjust better at that.
They've worked really hard atfiguring that out, and I think
it's also important to know andto acknowledge that as women in
particular, right, I don't knowabout you all, but I was
babysitting at a very young age.
I had been kind of taught thatit was normal for me to engage
(39:03):
in care work, to take care of mylittle brother, to babysit
neighborhood kids, to take childdevelopment courses in high
school.
I worked in a daycare in highschool and all the way through
college I had spent a lot oftime with kids before I even had
kids, and still that did notprepare me for parenthood in any
way, shape or form, but I hadan idea of what it looked like
to take care of children, and aswomen, we do often talk to each
(39:29):
other but also have been toldfrom a very young age that part
of our life is being a good wifeand a good mother.
When you're little, they'relike how many kids do you want?
When you're older, paige, andit's like I don't know.
I'm six, I don't know how manykids I want, but those are
questions little girls get.
They read the Babysitter's Club.
These are all ways that we'reconditioned to be mothers from a
(39:52):
very young age.
And I think men, when you askthem because I have asked this
on my platform before I've saidmen, what did people tell you
about being a dad?
Like, what did people tell you?
And a lot of them say nothing.
Nobody told me anything.
They're like I learned bywatching my dad or watching my
uncle, or I saw some of myfriends, but nobody really told
me anything.
Like nobody sat me down and wedidn't like over beers, talk
about fatherhood, and I thinkwomen have a very different
(40:13):
experience of that Right and Ithink it's the way it's
positioned too.
We often tell women like yourgreatest accomplishment is going
to be being a mother, right,and your children, and we don't
tell men that we're like you aregoing to.
Your accomplishments are yourcareer and how much money you
earn and the life you providefor your family, and I think it
(40:34):
just really puts men in a boxthat is harmful to them, and so
I think, if they're in aposition where their partner is
coming to them, I think it'simportant not to take it so
personally and to think like,actually, this problem is bigger
than me and, yeah, I've falleninto this box, but I don't have
to stay in it and I can get outof this box and I can change and
I can be different, and I thinkthat is really freeing to be
(40:55):
like I can be a good dad, I canbe the person to make their
lunch, I can know where theirfavorite stuffy is right, all of
these things have value, and Ithink it's so important that men
participate in this work,because it's not just important
for your partner, for you toshare in this work, but it's
important for your kids, right?
A lot of men will say I don'tneed to know the teacher's name,
but my pushback on that is whywouldn't you want to know?
(41:17):
Because if you don't know yourteacher's name, that means
you're probably not talking toyour kid, right?
Because if you talk to your kid, you know who their teacher is
and they're going to talk abouttheir day at school and what
they liked, what they didn'tlike.
They're going to tell you Ihate when Mrs So-and-so gives me
math homework.
You're going to have theseconversations with your kid, and
so I think it's so important todo this work and to view it not
(41:38):
only as important for yourmarriage, but also important for
your kids and the relationshipyou build with them, because I
think of chores like the laundry.
I learned so much about my kidsfrom doing their laundry.
I learned what their favoriteclothes are because they picked
them out themselves now, and soI can see dude is wearing this
orange jumpsuit twice a week.
He loves this thing.
(41:58):
I know that my daughter'sgrowing out of her leggings.
I know all of this stuffbecause I do their laundry, and
I think all of that has value,and for too, too long, we have
told men that they don't providevalue in caregiving and they
can, and caregiving is not justa job for women.
It's a job that we can all do,and it has so much value and
(42:18):
importance great.
Paige Connell (42:19):
Thank you so much for that answer.
That was amazing.
Was there anything else youwanted to share for the podcast
that you wanted us to add tothis episode that you wanted to
get out there?
Speaker 3 (42:30):
We've touched on it, but I think if you found
yourself in a position whereyou're carrying the mental load
or you're struggling within yourrelationship with the mental
load, I really like to remindpeople that it's not your fault,
that if you ended up in thisposition.
Obviously, we all have some sortof accountabilities in our
lives and our relationships.
But so much of this happensoutside of us and I think once
you understand that and yourealize that it's really freeing
(42:52):
and you can start to work on itand address it in your
relationship, in your homes andeventually we can address it
outside of them too.
You know, that's my hope.
But I think knowing that you'renot alone in this is so
empowering, because when youfeel like you're alone in these
struggles and that you're alonein these struggles and that
you're alone in your experienceswhether it's through pregnancy
(43:13):
and childbirth, raising childrenit can be really isolating and
it can feel very hard to changethings.
When you recognize that you'reactually not alone, it gives you
power.
Right Power is so important andplays a vital role here, and so
I hope, if nothing else, peoplecan walk away knowing that they
are not alone in thisexperience and that, yeah, they
have the power to navigate thisin a different way if they want
(43:34):
to.
Stephanie Theriault (43:35):
I love how you're saying power, because
this is a recurring word.
This is a recurring theme inthe podcast.
I talk about how conception,pregnancy, labor, postpartum
period it's transformative andit transforms us in so many ways
.
I talk about the highs and herewe're talking about difficult
times and with your content,with your message, you're
(43:55):
opening the door for couples whofind themselves in the
difficult postpartum period tohave that conversation, to
transform together as newparents and have a healthy
marriage, have a healthy familyin a way that we all deserve to
be.
So thank you for coming on theshow, Thank you for sharing your
message and I'm so excited forour listeners to hear this
(44:18):
episode and to hear your story.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Thank you, it was great being here.
Stephanie Theriault (44:33):
Hey there, amazing listeners.
If you love what we do and wantto see our podcast grow, we
need your help.
By making a donation, you'll besupporting us and bringing you
even more great content.
I truly believe creating thisspace for women all across the
globe to share their story willallow us to collectively heal,
grow and become more empoweredin the space that we deserve to
(44:57):
be.
Motherhood, womanhood andhowever that looks and feels for
each and every one of us, Everycontribution, big or small,
will make a huge difference.
If you can head over to supportus today, there's a link in the
bio to support the podcast.
From the bottom of my heart,thank you for being a part of
this journey.
Thank you for listening.
(45:19):
Be sure to check out our socialmedia.
All links are provided in theepisode description.
Please give us a follow.
If you or someone you knowwould like to be a guest on the
show, reach out to us via emailat info at maternalwealthcom.
And remember stay healthy,embrace your power and you got
(45:40):
this Bye.
Welcome to the Maternal Wealth Podcast, a
space for all things related tomaternal health, pregnancy and
beyond.
I'm your host, stephanie Terrio.
I'm a labor and delivery nurseand a mother to three beautiful
boys.
Each week, we dive intoinspiring stories and expert
insights to remind us of thepower that you hold in
childbirth and motherhood.
We're here to explore the joys,the challenges and the
(00:34):
complexities of maternal health.
Every mother's journey isunique and every story deserves
to be told.
Please note that this podcastis for entertainment purposes
only.
It is not intended to replaceprofessional medical advice,
diagnosis or treatment.
Always consult with yourhealthcare provider for medical
guidance that is tailored toyour specific needs.
(00:55):
Are you ready?
Let's get into it.
Today we are doing something alittle different.
(01:19):
I have my sister, rachelMenendez, who is my partner here
at Maternal Wealth, to welcomeand chat with Paige Connell.
I'm going to turn over the micto Rachel to introduce our guest
.
Paige Connell (01:38):
Today we welcome Paige Connell, a working mom of
four, who is known asSheIsAPaigeTurner on TikTok,
facebook and Instagram, whereshe shares relatable viral
content about the mental load ofmotherhood and advocates for
childcare, paid family leave andequity in the household.
She has been featured on scarymommy, the today's show, good
morning America, and has workedclosely with organizations like
(02:01):
carecom, moms first, fair playcare and across generations, and
mother forward page has createdseveral with organizations like
Carecom, moms First, fair Play,caring, across Generations and
Mother Forward.
Paige has created severalresources to help parents and
their partners navigateconversations and learn how to
take actions to help manage andalleviate the mental load of
motherhood.
Today, we plan to focus on howpregnancy, labor, birth and
(02:21):
caring for a newborn pertain tothe mental load and what it's
like to carry the invisible work, constant planning and
childcare that often falls onwomen, emphasizing the need for
equal responsibility andpartnership.
Let's welcome Paige to the show.
Stephanie Theriault (02:37):
Thank you so much for having me.
We are so excited to have youhere.
Paige Connell (02:41):
We would love for you to share with our listeners
what the mental load is, andwhen did you have that aha
moment realizing this mentalload inherently or
systematically affects women inour society more than men.
Sure.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So I didn't know the word mental load probably until
my fourth child was born and Ithink I heard it on a podcast.
So to be honest, I wasn'tfamiliar with it and didn't
recognize how it was showing upin my own life for quite a while
.
But once I did, once I becamefamiliar with the term, I
started to kind of see how itshows up in everyday life,
(03:15):
whether it's in just ourrelationships with our siblings
or our friends, our parents, butmost specifically our
relationships with our partners.
And I think the mental load inparticular is a buzzword.
Right now.
Everybody is talking about themental load, but I think most
people think about it as itrelates to their relationship
with their partner and parenting, specifically Because I think
(03:39):
parenting has a unique way ofreally increasing the mental
load that women in particularfeel, and I say that because
women do a disproportionateamount of work when they have
children, whether it's childcareor domestic labor, and along
with that comes the mental load.
Stephanie Theriault (03:56):
Considering the mental load regarding women
getting pregnant, whetherthrough choice, meaning welcome
intercourse, ivf or IUI.
How does the mental load affectwomen in the moment that they
find out that they're pregnant?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I actually think the mental load affects women before
they find out they're pregnant.
Obviously, again, talking aboutwhen it is intentional and as
planned as possible, I would saymost women are in charge of
things like monitoring theirovulation right.
They're the person talking totheir OB about when is it
appropriate to get off birthcontrol and if I'm off birth
(04:32):
control, should I be taking aprenatal.
These are things that women aredoing typically even before
they're trying to conceive, tomake sure that they can set
themselves and their partner upfor success in that journey.
And so I think oftentimes wethink about the mental load as
being something that happenspost birth.
I actually think it happenswell before pregnancy.
I think women tend to be theones responsible for navigating
(04:54):
what that journey trying toconceive looks like, and so I
think it starts there.
But obviously, again, whenyou're pregnant, I think,
especially if you're a birthingperson and even if not I adopted
my two older children I thinkit tends to fall
disproportionately to women.
Because there's this assumptionthat women inherently know and
(05:16):
because it's our bodies,oftentimes we assume that we
should take on theresponsibility, right, so we're
the person going to the doctor'sappointments and taking the
medications, we're the personwith the app on our phone
telling us how big our baby isand what we should be doing.
We're the person askingquestions and doing research on
doulas or midwives.
Typically, women are doing that,and it's not that men are not
(05:38):
capable of participating in that, but oftentimes I think we've
positioned it as something thatwomen inherently know how to do,
that we're just good at it, andthat our bodies know what to do
.
So, therefore, we must know whatto do too.
And what I know to be true frommy own experiences is the
second I became pregnant.
I was asking everyone I knewwho had been pregnant before me
(05:59):
a million questions, and I wasresearching online and I was
downloading the apps and I wastalking to my doctor and even
towards the end of pregnancy, Iwas checking my blood pressure.
I was doing all of these things, and this work is not nothing
right.
It adds up and a lot of it isinvisible.
It's that researching, it'sthat behind the scenes work that
tends to happen, and I thinkit's really important that we
(06:22):
acknowledge that and address howour partners can participate in
that work, because I actuallythink this is a huge part of
preparing our partners for whatparenting is like, because so
much of parenting is gatheringknowledge and information and
building community, and so oftenthat falls to women.
Stephanie Theriault (06:39):
So much of what you're saying resonates
with me and when I'minterviewing other women for the
podcast, I also have threechildren and in my work with the
patients and seeing all thepreparation that goes into just
getting to the point ofdelivering a child showing up at
the hospital, there's so muchthat goes into it that I think
even when I'm in the room withmy patients, the partner doesn't
(07:03):
even realize all the work thatwomen have done to get to that
point to be where they are readyto birth their children.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, 100%.
I think so often our partnersare sometimes clueless, right
Even going into the hospital.
They don't know what's in ourbaby bag.
They know what's in theirs, butthey don't know what's in ours.
They don't know why we'repacking diapers and ice packs.
They don't know that.
But that is stuff that womenspend so much time learning and
(07:31):
trying to understand.
And I think if you're in arelationship where you have a
partner and they'reparticipating, they're going to
be at the hospital with you orwherever you're birthing.
It's important for them tounderstand that and to know and
to be a participant.
And my husband didn't know anyof that going into the hospital.
He knew it coming out, that'sfor sure, and was super helpful
and hands-on when we were there.
But wouldn't it have been niceif he also was researching what
(07:55):
will my wife need in thehospital after birth?
Wouldn't it have been nice ifhe had been researching what
happens if she ultimately endsup with a C-section?
What will she need?
What will her care look like?
I was doing that work right?
And I think so often again, weplace this burden on women and
birthing people because we say,hey, you're the person with the
baby in your belly, you have todo this right and it falls to
(08:17):
you when, in reality, we canboth be doing this work and we
can be having conversationsabout it and talking about how
to support one another.
And that is the mental load,that invisible work that we're
doing to prepare.
And it's not nothing.
It can be a lot and it can beincredibly stressful, I think,
especially when you're havingyour first, it's stressful, but
even with the second, third, Ithink about things you know you
(08:38):
were talking about preparing toget to the hospital.
It's like who's watching ourkids?
What do we need to tell daycare?
Does daycare have the rightperson listed for pickup?
How do we make sure that iftomorrow I go into labor,
everything is good for our otherchildren?
That is a lot of work, and so Ithink oftentimes we just don't
(08:58):
recognize how much these littlethings truly add up.
Stephanie Theriault (09:03):
Coming from the perspective of a labor and
delivery nurse, I feel likeeverything that we're talking
about about the invisible mentalload also contributes to what
I'm seeing as an uptick of womenwho are choosing pregnancy and
parenthood without a partner.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you also believe that thiscould be attributed to the
(09:23):
invisible mental load?
Doing it alone specificallyyeah, so women who are choosing
IVF, they're choosing IUI,they're choosing to be a parent,
to be a mother and havechildren without a partner.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I like to say this Everyone has the mental load,
right.
It just looks differentdepending on your situation
Whether you have kids, you don'thave kids.
How many kids do you have?
Do you have a partner?
Don't you have a partner?
What kind of support system doyou have?
Right?
In some instances this mightsound crazy, but a woman with a
husband might have more mentalload than a solo parent, because
not only are they preparing fora child, they're doing the work
for another person, andsometimes, when you talk to
women, they.
And sometimes, when you talk towomen, they say, honestly, the
(10:02):
most exhausting thing is myhusband, not the kids, not all
that stuff, it's him and theamount of work that he adds to
my plate.
And now, that's a somewhatcynical view and I don't think
that's the case of most men,right, but I think that is
aversion, right.
But when you're a solo parent,I've definitely heard from a lot
of single moms in particularwho say you know, yes, I have
this same mental load, I havethese same problems, but it
(10:24):
really depends on your village,right?
Do you have support?
What does that support looklike?
Both paid, outsourced support,but also a village that maybe
you've created, and sometimesthat can alleviate the mental
load.
Sometimes it doesn't.
I think it's really just adifferent version.
I think in both scenariosthere's a lot of work involved
(10:44):
and a lot of mental load, but Ido think there, systemically and
logistically, it's a lot ofwork to be a single parent.
It is a ton of work and youdon't have that secondary person
to fall back on if you get theflu and say, hey, you've got the
kids tonight.
You don't have that, or maybeyou do in the form of a village.
I think it just really depends.
(11:05):
And I imagine that most peoplewho go into solo parenting or
choosing to parent on their ownhave these conversations with
themselves about okay, what do Ineed?
And I think the hard part is Idon't know how you all feel.
But I think the hardest part iswe don't know what we don't
know.
So so much of this happens andwe go oh my gosh, I wish I'd
known this before.
(11:25):
You know, I had kids and Iwould have prepared differently,
I would have had differentconversations.
And that's the tricky partabout all of this, especially as
parents.
There's just some things youwill never know until you are a
parent.
You just can't possiblyunderstand it.
Stephanie Theriault (11:39):
I agree a hundred percent.
Paige Connell (11:41):
And just related to what you were just saying, I
think it's great that we havethis access to like social media
and accounts like yours, wherepeople who have kind of gone
through this already and you'resharing this information with
people.
Like you say, we're doing theresearch, but we have I feel
like we have so much moreinformation now than we used to,
where we know these terms likethe mental load and visible
(12:02):
labor, so we want to find outhow that's going to affect our
lives, and so they find pageslike yours, talk about it and
break it down Like this is whatto expect, this is what I'm
going through, and I thinkthat's really helpful for people
where, even when they get tothat point, they're going to be
going through their own you knowissues and things that they
have to get through, but atleast they have these resources
that can they can be like okay,this is what I can do, this is
(12:25):
what I can rely on, this is whatI can do moving forward.
So I think it's really helpfulfor people to have that
information available.
So thank you for sharing thatinformation.
I know you've had a lot goingon, so it's great that you've
been able to get that out there.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I think it's.
You know, a lot of times whenyou talk to women in particular
about their experience ofparenthood, they will say you
know, I was really angry, I feltlike nobody told me the truth,
nobody told me the reality.
And there's often this ideathat like we can't really tell
expecting parents the truthbecause we'll scare them, right
(12:57):
Like we'll scare them.
And I think I even saw a comedybit once from a comedian.
It was a man who was like ohyeah, parents are always like
come on, do it, it'll be so fun.
And then when you do, they'relike ha ha ha, we tricked you,
you're in it now with us.
And it's like we kind ofsugarcoat it sometimes to new
expecting parents.
And I don't think that's fair.
I don't think we should scareanyone or give worst case
(13:20):
scenarios, but I think bysugarcoating the experience
specifically I think aboutpostpartum and what that can
feel like and all the emotionstied to it and also the impact
on your marriage orrelationships by sugarcoating
those things, we set people upto fail and we set people up to
feel like individually they didsomething wrong or they didn't
(13:41):
do enough research or theydidn't pick the right partner.
And so often most of ourstruggles are a result of
systemic issues, societalconditioning and expectations
and the fact that we just don'ttalk about it.
And we don't talk about itbecause we're afraid and we have
shame and we don't want to.
It can be embarrassing Tellingyour friend like hey, fyi, a
(14:04):
week after you have a baby, youmight wake up soaking wet and
need to change your whole outfitand your sheets.
Nobody said that to me and Iwish they had.
I wish somebody had said hey,this is some of the crazy stuff
that might happen and if it does, it's okay.
So often we keep that toourselves and we wonder am I
normal?
Is this normal?
And I think it can create justthis cycle where we continue to
(14:27):
encounter pregnancy andpostpartum and relationships
without all the information,which can be really difficult to
navigate.
Paige Connell (14:33):
Yeah, absolutely For sure.
A lot of people that I workwith they haven't had children
yet.
I'm just like, if they dodecide to go down that path, I'm
always thinking about if theycome to me and they're like,
tell me what it's like abouthaving kids, and I'm like, okay,
how can I present this to themin a way that's like realistic,
but also I don't want to scarethem either.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's the thing.
I don't think we should scareanyone, but I think you know
everyone I know who's had achild or given birth.
When we get together I don'tknow if you guys experienced
this like I will meet a mom atthe park for the first time and
she'll be telling me about herhemorrhoids and we're just like
talking because it's like, onceyou've done it, you're like,
okay, we need, and you'retalking to someone else who's
(15:13):
done it.
You're like, okay, let's talkabout it, cause that was crazy.
And I feel like I find thatpeople on the other side of
birth tend to share informationwith each other, but they don't
tend to share it with people whoare expecting, necessarily, and
so it's like, behind the smokeand mirrors of it, all right and
yeah, I don't think we want toscare anyone and I would never
(15:34):
want anybody to feel like that,but I do want people to feel
prepared and I wish I had beenmore prepared for certain
aspects of pregnancy and birthand postpartum, and I'm not
blaming anyone.
I just think that nobody reallytold me and I didn't see it
online and I tried to stay awayfrom the scary baby boards and
(15:56):
so it was really eye-opening toactually walk through it myself,
and I think it's just importantthat we have that perspective
as we proceed together.
Paige Connell (16:05):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I definitely agree on that.
Stephanie Theriault (16:16):
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Paige Connell (17:14):
How does the invisible mental load affect
women during their pregnancy?
So we can even break it down bytrimesters.
Do you think that the invisiblemental load during the first
trimester looks different fromthe second trimester or even the
third?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, so I think it's important to say what the
mental load is.
So the mental load is ofteninvisible, and so you might call
it invisible labor, but it alsohas things involved like
cognitive labor or emotionallabor, and so those are the
things we've talked about, right, the researching, the managing
and monitoring, right, like, doI feel a kick?
Do I not feel a kick?
(17:47):
Am I kick counting or not kickcounting?
Right, like all of these thingsthat we have to be thinking
about throughout our days doingresearch, whether it's like on
the best hospital, or what kindof methods you want to use after
, are you breastfeeding or notbreastfeeding.
All of these things tend tofall to women.
But I think also anotherportion that often doesn't get
acknowledged as often is theemotional labor involved and the
(18:09):
work of managing your emotionsand your partner's emotions, and
that's a big part of pregnancy,I think, is that there's a lot
of unknowns, and, especially foranyone who's experienced any
kind of pregnancy loss, I thinkthere's a huge amount of
emotional labor that goes intothe mental load during pregnancy
(18:32):
.
As a person myself, I had twopregnancy losses and then
ultimately did IVF, my firstsuccessful pregnancy.
I remember feeling crazyanxious, yes, pretty much the
entire time.
I never felt like I felt quoteunquote what I used to tell my
therapist I don't feel safe, Idon't feel like she's safe and I
(18:52):
don't feel like I'm safe.
And I felt that way the entiretime, and so I was constantly
trying to manage my emotions,too, where it was like, don't be
stressed, you'll hurt the baby,but then being stressed because
I was worried about the baby,and it was this whole experience
that I think oftentimes, unlessyou've kind of gone through
that experience, it can bereally hard to recognize how
(19:12):
much work that is right thattook a mental toll on me, and so
not only was I constantlyresearching and learning and
building out plans, but I wasalso managing all of these big
emotions and also planning forwhat our future was going to
look like.
Looking into daycares, right.
So every trimester obviouslybrings something different, but
I think there's also real work,right.
(19:34):
It's like who's buying orplanning the registry, who's
getting on a daycare waitlist orinterviewing nannies, who's
doing this work, who'sconsulting with the state to
make sure we're going to be ableto get paid leave.
All of that is also a ton ofwork that tends to come along
with being a pregnant person, orjust an expecting parent, and
so that work, too, cannot bediscounted.
(19:55):
That is a ton of work and addsa layer of stress and complexity
to an already really busy timeof life.
Stephanie Theriault (20:05):
I want to talk about the mental load, the
invisible mental load, when wego into labor, wherever we
choose to deliver, whether it'sin the hospital, in a birth
center, at home.
Often I see this hands-offapproach when it comes to the
partner at the bedside.
When the woman is in labor andI think about how the mental
load is for laboring right, shehas to be in the zone, she has
(20:27):
to be in a safe space, and menare asking me, or partners, male
partners, are asking how can Isupport her, what can I do?
And for me I can guide and help.
But it's also a little bitfrustrating because I think that
this question should have beenasked before the moment of labor
has begun.
What kind of advice do you havefor partners to help prepare
(20:52):
outside of, like a birthingclass or a mom's class for male
partners to prepare to supportwomen in the act of labor and
birth?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
So I'm definitely not an expert on this, but I think
you know, at least not in birth.
I've only done it twice.
So I will say from myexperience to your point I think
I wish more men were readingthe books.
I wish more men were followingaccounts.
I wish more men were askingquestions and coming to
appointments.
I wish more men were havingconversations with their partner
about what they want and whatthey don't want.
(21:22):
Right, at what point are youcomfortable with an epidural
versus not right?
What do you need from me whenit comes to advocacy?
How do I advocate for yourneeds when you can't right?
Because I think I jokingly tellpeople like I pushed for like
four and a half hours.
I blacked that out.
I don't remember it.
I don't In the moment.
I remember opening my eyes atone point and being like how
(21:43):
long has it been?
And my husband's like a wow,but I don't remember physically
being present.
I was really in it becausethere's so much happening and I
knew that I could trust myhusband to advocate for me.
And my husband was actuallyincredibly hands-on the entire
birth.
But I think, knowing that ifI'm not capable of answering a
(22:04):
question, he is and he canadvocate for me and tell them
what I want and what I don'twant and I think that is a huge
part of it too, andunderstanding like, okay, a lot
of women know, depending on thehospital, like some hospitals
are going to tell you you can'teat, but you can talk to them
about when you do want to eatand why you want to eat or what
that looks like, right.
And so I don't think as manymen are knowledgeable on that
(22:26):
part of it, right, about kind ofwhat a patient's rights are.
And I even learned, like youcan request a different nurse.
You can be like no, this isn'tworking, I need a different
nurse.
And I don't think men are doingthe work to prepare for those
situations beforehand.
And I really wish couples inparticular would kind of sit
down and hash out this plan andsay, okay, if this happens, we
(22:49):
do this, if this happens, we dothis, and if the unexpected
happens, which it often does,let's talk about how we want to
think about the end goal.
So I really just think it'sreally just about working
together.
I think, again, we reallyassume that women are just going
to lead the charge on this andthat birthing people are just
going to lead the charge and menare going to take a backseat,
(23:09):
and I don't think they have to.
I don't think they have to takea backseat.
I think they can come to thetable and say, hey, I've been
doing some research and what doyou think about this?
And having them know like, yeah, nope, she doesn't want to push
on her back, she wants to pushthis way.
Being able to have thoseconversations and have men be
just as knowledgeable as womenare, would be hugely impactful
in supporting a partner.
Stephanie Theriault (23:30):
These conversations are also so
important to have to discusswhat is wanted for the baby once
the baby's born.
So knowing what the mom wants.
Does the mom want a breastfeed?
Does the mom want a bottle feed?
What medications are you okaywith or not okay with?
So, if the mom is not in astate where she can really make
those decisions, knowing aheadof time what, as a couple, you
(23:51):
want for the baby, yeah for sure.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
I mean, I had a really complicated first birth
and I ended up in the ORimmediately after my daughter
was born and so my husband wasleft alone with the baby and he
was like, first off, that waslike the scariest moment of my
life.
And I was with this baby and Iwas like, uh, and they're like,
well, what is she trying to do?
Is she trying to breastfeed?
Is she doing formula?
And he we had talked about itso he knew, um, but he was like,
(24:16):
yeah, the nurses were allasking me, right, and so I think
it is important for them toknow do you want the medication
on their eyes or not?
Right, do you want to do thosethings?
I think a lot of people maybedon't have those in-depth
conversations with theirpartners and sometimes you know,
we don't know.
Again, we don't know what wedon't know.
But a lot of people are doingthat research beforehand and a
(24:38):
lot of women know the answers tothose questions and a lot of
men don't.
And I think that's the missingpiece and this continues often
into, you know, parenting thesenewborn babies.
I even think in the hospital, alot of times women will tell
you like every time the nursecomes into the room, they say
mom, how's the baby?
But they don't say dad, how'sthe baby?
Right, like again, thisresponsibility is placed on mom,
(24:59):
even though mom is alsorecovering.
And so why aren't we saying tothe dad oh, when's the last time
the baby ate?
And letting mom rest, forexample, like let her take a
beat and ask dad that question?
All of these things with themental load and these kind of
disparities between men andwomen, I think happened so very
early on.
Paige Connell (25:16):
I saw on your site that next month April 2025,
you are releasing an audiocourse about how to have
productive conversations withyour partner, about sharing the
mental load.
You've talked about theimbalance of the mental load
with your husband, especiallywhen it reached the point where
you are considering divorce,which I'm sure was a very
difficult time.
Could you share with us how thenew course will help guide
(25:37):
women who find themselves in asimilar situation to have a
healthy and productiveconversation with their partner,
particularly during the newbornand postpartum phase, or any
other phase that you would liketo talk about?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah.
So I think this is actually acourse you can take really at
any point in a relationship, andmy goal here I like to be clear
about this I'm not this magictool that will save every
marriage, but what I want it tobe is a tool to help you have
these conversations, to haveproductive conversations with
your partner about the mentalload, because I think what often
happens is the mental load iskind of like a snowball right
(26:12):
it's rolling down a hill and asit does it picks up snow and it
gets bigger and bigger andfaster and faster, and one day
you look and the snowball is nowa snowman or a massive boulder
right of snow.
And that is how I think aboutthe mental load.
It is typically not somethingthat feels heavy overnight.
It adds up over time and Ithink kids in particular really
(26:33):
tip the scales when it comes tothe mental load.
And, like we said earlier inthis conversation, I think
oftentimes we're told that thisis kind of an individual issue
that we have to solve and thatignores the reality is that
there are so many things, youknow, from societal conditioning
and expectations to systemicbarriers like the lack of paid
parental leave and the lack ofaffordable childcare.
All of these things, I think,play into how the mental load
(26:57):
works in a relationshipspecifically between a man and a
woman, but just in general.
And so having theseconversations can bring up a lot
of emotions, and I think thenumber one thing you'll hear
from women in particular is thatthey feel resentful of their
partner and you often hear thistoo in having a newborn.
And women will say it's like mywhole life changed and his
didn't at all.
(27:17):
And they'll say because it'slike my body changed, everything
about my life has changed andit feels like his life is mostly
unchanged.
And I think that is something alot of women feel when it comes
to the mental load too.
And sometimes when we bring upthese conversations, we want to
really address it with ourpartner and ultimately what
happens is we just end upfighting about the laundry, for
(27:38):
example, and we don't get to theroot cause of the issue, and
oftentimes it can feel like anus against them problem when it
comes to the mental load.
You're not doing enough, I'mdoing everything, and then what
men hear is you're awful, andthen they get defensive, and
then there's a lot of shame andthen it just becomes this fight
and we don't actually getanywhere.
(27:58):
And so the goal with the courseis that we build the tools and
understanding to be able toarticulate the mental load, to
be able to make the mental loadvisible, because that's a big
part of this conversation.
It's mostly invisible, and sothe person who's not responsible
for it truly doesn't see it andor acknowledge it, and so it
can be incredibly hard to get onthe same page about what
(28:20):
sharing that looks like.
But also tools to have thisconversation, ways to address
common roadblocks right, likethe idea that there's this
common narrative that women arenagged.
That is actually something thatis much more complex than I
think people realize, and so inthe course we really do a deep
dive into all the things thatare at play as it pertains to
(28:42):
the mental load.
So that way we are bestequipped to have a conversation
with our partner that willactually be productive and will
hopefully result in meaningfulchange.
And I think one thing I will sayis I think this course is
helpful for anyone who wants tounderstand the mental load
better and have conversationsabout it.
But in order to actually changethis dynamic in our
(29:02):
relationships, we do have tohave willing and able partners
who are open to engaging inthese conversations, because
these conversations are very,very layered and there's a lot
of deeply rooted ideas aboutourselves and our value that we
have to unpack when we havethese conversations, and it can
be really tricky.
And so, one, I like to givepeople grace.
(29:22):
But, two, I think it's reallyimportant to note that your
partner can't really be draggedalong through this process, but
it doesn't mean it's notpossible.
I know a lot of men who want tobe amazing dads.
They want to be amazingpartners, and truly, I think
we've all been done a very hugedisservice by the way that we've
been raised and theexpectations that have been
(29:44):
placed on men and women, andspecifically with parenting, I
think the bar is incredibly highfor moms and very low for dads.
And why is that?
There's so many reasons whythat is, and I think it's really
important that we have theseconversations to unpack all of
that.
Paige Connell (29:59):
Well, that sounds amazing.
Yeah, I think that will bereally helpful for a lot of
people who want to have theseconversations but haven't done
it in a productive way that theyactually get results that they
need to make their lives betterand more sustainable.
It reminds me a lot.
I saw on your website you hadtalked about Fair Play.
It reminds me of when that bookcame out I think it was five or
(30:20):
six years ago.
What a big deal it was, becauseit talked about this mental
load and also tried to givetools and resources for people
to use, about having thoseconversations, but also having
it broken down in a way thattheir partner could actually see
all the work that they weredoing and how it needed to be
(30:41):
distributed more evenly and totry and come up with ways to
make that happen and I saw onyour website that you were
associated with thatorganization as well, or you
worked with them, I believe andcome up with ways to make that
happen and I saw on your websitethat you were associated with
that organization as well, oryou worked with them, I believe.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, I'm a Fair Play facilitator, so I've kind of
gone through their training andI'm able to talk about the
training and go into kind of howcouples can navigate Fair Play.
That is where I started myjourney with this whole thing
was Fair Play.
I heard Eve Rodsky on a podcastand it really just opened my
eyes to what I was experiencing,because prior to that I really
couldn't articulate it, andhaving the words to articulate
(31:13):
what was happening to me madeall the difference.
It really was such a gamechanger, and so I think what Eve
has done with Fair Play and nowthe Fair Play Institute is
absolutely amazing.
I think it's a great jumping offpoint for couples and I think
the game in particular is really, really helpful for navigating
a way to hold ourselvesaccountable to this work and
(31:34):
sharing it in a way that feelsequitable, because oftentimes I
think we have the bestintentions and our partners will
say like, yes, I'll do more,but it's too vague, it doesn't
really give us tools to moveforward in a way that holds both
of us accountable and hasstructure, and I really do think
we need that.
Our homes are kind of like abusiness and Eve says as much
and relationships aren't abusiness our partnerships with
(31:55):
our partners and ourrelationships with our kids but
the actual home laundry, cooking, cleaning bills, buying food,
all these things it is kind oflike a business and so it's
important that we work togetherto manage it.
And my goal for all couples whokind of either go through Fair
Play or any of my tools is tohave a marriage where things are
(32:17):
thriving, where your home runslike a well-oiled machine or
company, because when it does,it gives you more time to enjoy
your life.
You're no longer worried aboutwhether or not you have
groceries or clean dishes.
You just know that things areworking.
Yeah.
Paige Connell (32:32):
I think that's the dream for a lot of people to
have a happy, healthy home andit's nice that there's tools out
there that people can utilizeto get to that point.
You did talk about how the baris so high for moms, but I also
see on your social media youtalk a lot about how society is
just not set up for workingmothers, which I think you also
touched on earlier as well, andyou're a working parent.
(32:55):
Stephanie and I are workingparents too, so we understand
what it's like being in thethick of it.
Do you want to talk a littlebit more about why the society
is just not set up for workingparents at this time?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah, sure, I mean I think overall.
You know our society was builtwith the idea that there would
be somebody at home doing theunpaid labor to manage a home
and to raise kids, and eventhough that's not rooted in any
kind of reality, I like to callthat out.
Women have always worked, mostwomen have always worked, but
there's this narrative that youknow historically they didn't.
(33:26):
But our workplaces inparticular are not set up in a
way that is conducive to raisingchildren in this current world.
School days typically my kidsgo to school from 9 to 3.
Most work days go from 9 to 5.
So what does that mean?
I either need after-school careor a nanny, or I need to adjust
my work hours or cut back atthe office.
(33:47):
A lot of people only get 5 sickdays.
My kids have been sick probably25 days so far this year, and
so there's not enough sick timefor parents to recover if they
get sick, but to care for theirown children.
Our daycares, and childcare inparticular in this country, are
incredibly expensive.
It is a privatized industry asopposed to social infrastructure
(34:10):
, like many of our peercountries, and so families are
paying astronomical amounts ofmoney for childcare, and not
only is it unaffordable?
It's inaccessible.
You often can't find safechildcare that you can afford,
and so this disproportionatelyimpacts women, who end up
leaving the workforce.
Women are twice as likely toleave the workforce or adjust
their careers to accommodate forthe lack of childcare or
childcare gaps than men.
(34:31):
We also just don't have thingslike paid leave as simple as
that.
It makes it incrediblydifficult for people to have
children and maintain a careerbecause they can't afford to
take unpaid time and they alsocan't go back with a
two-week-old baby becausethere's no childcare for a
two-week-old baby, and nor dothey want to, nor should they
(34:52):
Systemically.
The lack of paid leave, thelack of affordable childcare,
disproportionately impacts women.
But even when our kids getolder, the public school
calendar or school age calendarsare not conducive to having two
working parents.
You almost need somebody with aflexible job or arrangement or
enough money to be able tooutsource childcare at that age.
I'm even thinking about my liferight now.
(35:13):
My kids next week have two halfdays in a row Wednesday and
Thursday for parent-teacherconferences, and then the
following week they have Mondayoff.
So in one week, basicallywithin seven days there are
three days where I need toaccommodate additional childcare
, which would mean I need toeither take half days from work
or work from home with my kidsor find childcare for them, and
so a lot of working mothers inparticular are really burned out
(35:36):
and stressed because they arenavigating all of this work and
because of the societalconditioning that has basically
said like this is mom's job,they are the ones doing this
work or they tend to be the onesdoing this work, and so I think
it's really important that, aswe have these conversations, we
kind of look at the systems inplace, look at these workplaces
that really lack flexibility inorder to be able to raise kids.
(35:56):
These days, families do needmore in way of flexible
workplaces, in way of support,in way of sick time and paid
leave.
All of these things areincredibly important.
Stephanie Theriault (36:16):
Earlier you mentioned, society has done a
disservice to men and Iappreciate taking the moment to
acknowledge that there are menwho want to be equitable
partners, help in a moreequitable way, to decrease the
mental load, to share thatmental load, and thinking about
(36:36):
women who want to have theconversation, women who want to
go to your course and learn moreabout how to have the
conversation with their partners.
What advice would you give tomen who are listening to your
message, who are listening tothe podcast about breaking down
that wall?
I think there's this wall upthat they're guarded and they're
(36:57):
offended that we're evenbringing it up.
What message would you give tothem to take a step back and
listen and kind of startbreaking down that wall so they
can be the partner that theywant to be and that their wife
wants them to be.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah.
So I think it's reallyimportant that, again, we look
at all the expectations andconditioning at play.
I think a lot of men have beentaught that in order to be a
good man, a good husband, a goodfather, you have to be a
provider, you have to be aprotector.
And what does it mean to be agood provider?
I think most men associate thatwith having a good income right
(37:34):
, having a good job.
What's it mean to be a good dad?
It means to be the fun guy.
Right, like your kids, like you, they enjoy spending time with
you.
You're at dinner time with them, you show up at the soccer game
.
But I really encourage men tolook at the double standards
that exist between men and womenand really analyze them.
Right, most women these daysare working, so they are also
providing financially.
Yet women are expected to dothe daily grind of cooking and
(37:59):
cleaning and laundry and all ofthese things that make the home
function and are essentiallykind of like a symptom of having
children.
Right, like laundry is notparenting, right, it's not
really a part of parenting.
It's a symptom of havingchildren, for sure, and it's
chores, but it really doesn'thave anything to do with our
relationship with our kids, andso I encourage men to one view
(38:21):
themselves as more than apaycheck, more than a protector,
and to expand on what thosethings mean.
You can provide emotionalsupport for your family, right.
You can provide care for yourfamily, and I think a lot of men
believe that women are justinherently better at this stuff,
right.
A lot of women will hear that,like you're just better at
(38:41):
getting the baby to sleep,you're just better at getting
the baby to stop crying.
Well, oftentimes women aren'tjust better at that.
They've worked really hard atfiguring that out, and I think
it's also important to know andto acknowledge that as women in
particular, right, I don't knowabout you all, but I was
babysitting at a very young age.
I had been kind of taught thatit was normal for me to engage
(39:03):
in care work, to take care of mylittle brother, to babysit
neighborhood kids, to take childdevelopment courses in high
school.
I worked in a daycare in highschool and all the way through
college I had spent a lot oftime with kids before I even had
kids, and still that did notprepare me for parenthood in any
way, shape or form, but I hadan idea of what it looked like
to take care of children, and aswomen, we do often talk to each
(39:29):
other but also have been toldfrom a very young age that part
of our life is being a good wifeand a good mother.
When you're little, they'relike how many kids do you want?
When you're older, paige, andit's like I don't know.
I'm six, I don't know how manykids I want, but those are
questions little girls get.
They read the Babysitter's Club.
These are all ways that we'reconditioned to be mothers from a
(39:52):
very young age.
And I think men, when you askthem because I have asked this
on my platform before I've saidmen, what did people tell you
about being a dad?
Like, what did people tell you?
And a lot of them say nothing.
Nobody told me anything.
They're like I learned bywatching my dad or watching my
uncle, or I saw some of myfriends, but nobody really told
me anything.
Like nobody sat me down and wedidn't like over beers, talk
about fatherhood, and I thinkwomen have a very different
(40:13):
experience of that Right and Ithink it's the way it's
positioned too.
We often tell women like yourgreatest accomplishment is going
to be being a mother, right,and your children, and we don't
tell men that we're like you aregoing to.
Your accomplishments are yourcareer and how much money you
earn and the life you providefor your family, and I think it
(40:34):
just really puts men in a boxthat is harmful to them, and so
I think, if they're in aposition where their partner is
coming to them, I think it'simportant not to take it so
personally and to think like,actually, this problem is bigger
than me and, yeah, I've falleninto this box, but I don't have
to stay in it and I can get outof this box and I can change and
I can be different, and I thinkthat is really freeing to be
(40:55):
like I can be a good dad, I canbe the person to make their
lunch, I can know where theirfavorite stuffy is right, all of
these things have value, and Ithink it's so important that men
participate in this work,because it's not just important
for your partner, for you toshare in this work, but it's
important for your kids, right?
A lot of men will say I don'tneed to know the teacher's name,
but my pushback on that is whywouldn't you want to know?
(41:17):
Because if you don't know yourteacher's name, that means
you're probably not talking toyour kid, right?
Because if you talk to your kid, you know who their teacher is
and they're going to talk abouttheir day at school and what
they liked, what they didn'tlike.
They're going to tell you Ihate when Mrs So-and-so gives me
math homework.
You're going to have theseconversations with your kid, and
so I think it's so important todo this work and to view it not
(41:38):
only as important for yourmarriage, but also important for
your kids and the relationshipyou build with them, because I
think of chores like the laundry.
I learned so much about my kidsfrom doing their laundry.
I learned what their favoriteclothes are because they picked
them out themselves now, and soI can see dude is wearing this
orange jumpsuit twice a week.
He loves this thing.
(41:58):
I know that my daughter'sgrowing out of her leggings.
I know all of this stuffbecause I do their laundry, and
I think all of that has value,and for too, too long, we have
told men that they don't providevalue in caregiving and they
can, and caregiving is not justa job for women.
It's a job that we can all do,and it has so much value and
(42:18):
importance great.
Paige Connell (42:19):
Thank you so much for that answer.
That was amazing.
Was there anything else youwanted to share for the podcast
that you wanted us to add tothis episode that you wanted to
get out there?
Speaker 3 (42:30):
We've touched on it, but I think if you found
yourself in a position whereyou're carrying the mental load
or you're struggling within yourrelationship with the mental
load, I really like to remindpeople that it's not your fault,
that if you ended up in thisposition.
Obviously, we all have some sortof accountabilities in our
lives and our relationships.
But so much of this happensoutside of us and I think once
you understand that and yourealize that it's really freeing
(42:52):
and you can start to work on itand address it in your
relationship, in your homes andeventually we can address it
outside of them too.
You know, that's my hope.
But I think knowing that you'renot alone in this is so
empowering, because when youfeel like you're alone in these
struggles and that you're alonein these struggles and that
you're alone in your experienceswhether it's through pregnancy
(43:13):
and childbirth, raising childrenit can be really isolating and
it can feel very hard to changethings.
When you recognize that you'reactually not alone, it gives you
power.
Right Power is so important andplays a vital role here, and so
I hope, if nothing else, peoplecan walk away knowing that they
are not alone in thisexperience and that, yeah, they
have the power to navigate thisin a different way if they want
(43:34):
to.
Stephanie Theriault (43:35):
I love how you're saying power, because
this is a recurring word.
This is a recurring theme inthe podcast.
I talk about how conception,pregnancy, labor, postpartum
period it's transformative andit transforms us in so many ways
.
I talk about the highs and herewe're talking about difficult
times and with your content,with your message, you're
(43:55):
opening the door for couples whofind themselves in the
difficult postpartum period tohave that conversation, to
transform together as newparents and have a healthy
marriage, have a healthy familyin a way that we all deserve to
be.
So thank you for coming on theshow, Thank you for sharing your
message and I'm so excited forour listeners to hear this
(44:18):
episode and to hear your story.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Thank you, it was great being here.
Stephanie Theriault (44:33):
Hey there, amazing listeners.
If you love what we do and wantto see our podcast grow, we
need your help.
By making a donation, you'll besupporting us and bringing you
even more great content.
I truly believe creating thisspace for women all across the
globe to share their story willallow us to collectively heal,
grow and become more empoweredin the space that we deserve to
(44:57):
be.
Motherhood, womanhood andhowever that looks and feels for
each and every one of us, Everycontribution, big or small,
will make a huge difference.
If you can head over to supportus today, there's a link in the
bio to support the podcast.
From the bottom of my heart,thank you for being a part of
this journey.
Thank you for listening.
(45:19):
Be sure to check out our socialmedia.
All links are provided in theepisode description.
Please give us a follow.
If you or someone you knowwould like to be a guest on the
show, reach out to us via emailat info at maternalwealthcom.
And remember stay healthy,embrace your power and you got
(45:40):
this Bye.
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