Dante Bowe: The Break is Over

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
How many nominations did you have that year at the
Grammys?
Thank you, welcome to anotherepisode of Mavericks.

(01:39):
On the Mic, I'm JJ.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
I'm Norman, and we have a very special guest with
us here today, and it's no otherthan the legendary Dante Bo.
Oh yes, what's up, man?
What up man?
What's up, bro?
Good to see y'all.
Good to see you, man For sure.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
How you been this your house too, you done blew up
on us, got money now, oh man,you know.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
God does what God does.
I like it, I'm just his conduit.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
I like it, man.
Thanks for inviting me to be onthis podcast, of course.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Man, we excited to have you.
Man, you were the topic of ourfirst podcast at Moments.
We sat down with Ruslan, youknow, we kind of walked through
the genealogy of Maverick Citymusic.
So I think that'll be a goodstarting point for us.

(02:39):
You know what I'm saying.
So for those of you, for thosethat don't know who you are,
let's tell them who is Dante Bo.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
That's a good question.
I mean, I'm a friend, I'm abrother, I'm a son, but I think,
as it pertains to Maverick City, I mean I started out just as a
songwriter and always loved tosongwrite, and we ended up
blowing up and then I wassinging some of the records.
Actually, you know what's crazy?

(03:08):
I actually sang the first everMaverick City song.
Real thing, you did.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Isn't that the?

Speaker 3 (03:14):
first ever camp.
Yeah, the first ever camp.
So I mean, as far as who I amin Maverick City, I'm a
songwriter primarily, and thenI'm an artist second to that.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, and you and Brandon were the first.
You were there before Chandlerand Naomi were.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, I showed JJ Chandler on TV because I used to
watch Chandler at All Nations.
This is also true.
So we was at Bethel and I wasshowing him Chandler videos on
TV.
That's very true.
I didn't know he would take myspot, wow.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
You feel like Chandler took your spot yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
I'm just joking.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
I'm just joking.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
You know, all jokes aside, but like Chan was like
that's like my teammate, like Ifelt like we were like teammates
for sure.
Jordan and Pippen, or Shaq andCol, teammates for sure Jordan
and Pippen, or Shaq and KobeExactly Jordan and Pippen.
They used to call us that.
People used to have signs andlike call us that and I feel
like everything we did we won.
You know, obviously we just did.

(04:18):
You know, voice of God, we didWait On you, but both nominated
for Grammys.
Both are like really successfulrecords and I want to work with
Chandler again at some point,but yeah, he didn't take my spot
.
We different, we've got thesame kind of heart when it comes
to worship, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Absolutely.
Well, let's go back there.
I mean, let's start at thebeginning.
Let's talk about like thebeginning of Maverick City.
We record that first album atthat house, out in Redding, the
first volume of that small EPcomes out and then it just seems
like the world got set on fire.
Like what do you remember backfrom those days?

Speaker 3 (04:56):
I remember like not knowing what was going on and
just being so zealous to havepeople hear my voice.
You know, I was with EddieJames prior to Maverick City and
he never wanted to recordnothing in 4K.
Everything was on iPhones andstuff.
So nothing ever went viral.

(05:17):
And I would be having thesegreat worship moments but nobody
would ever see them.
And then I remember when I cameto the camp, y'all had real
cameras.
So I was like, oh yeah, peopleabout to see me finally lead
worship, so I was excited toactually be caught on camera,
like you know.
You know, leading worship issomething I was passionate about
doing, you know, letting peoplesee me actually do it, like

(05:40):
with quality, not just know.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, but it wasn't just leading worship, right, I
think there was an edge that youguys had that was other than it
was special.
It stood out and I think peoplefelt that from the first song
we ever dropped, even from a lotof the videos that we put on IG
Like what is that?
What was that?
What do you think people feltwhen they saw and interacted

(06:05):
with some of the songs that wereleased at the very beginning?

Speaker 3 (06:08):
I mean we black kids.
So we struggled.
You know we had struggles andstuff like that.
We had been through a lot, someof them.
You know Naomi was alreadymarried.
You know Chandler had his ownlike church history.
You know dad had been a pastorhe was Travis Green, all this
stuff history.
You know dad been a pastor, hewas travis green, all this stuff
I, my, my grandmother andgrandfather pastors and then I

(06:28):
was eddie james.
Like we, we didn't start inthat room in maverick city.
We had already built thissecret like relationship with
god, like this privaterelationship with god, and we
were already leading to thatlevel.
It was just we were given aplatform and all together which
would make, which made it evenmore powerful.
I feel like we all comingtogether as black kids and, uh,

(06:49):
leading in a genre that didn'thave any black kids in it, yeah,
and so that made it special too.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, that we look different, yeah, act different
yeah, I, I remember very vividlythe, the, when we started doing
stuff.
I mean, I remember when Istarted, like when I became a
songwriter and I kind of workedmy way into industry, I remember
always being the only blackperson In every room I went in.
It didn't matter if it was awriting room.

(07:16):
Jd, are you black?
I'm just joking.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
I'm just joking.
I'm just joking.
We ain't one of these.
I'm just joking.
I'm just joking.
I'm just joking.
I'm just joking.
We ain't want to be.
I'm just joking.
I'm just joking.
We joke about this all the time.
Yes, I am black, I know.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yes, I am black, no, but I think yeah to that point.
I just think there wassomething that I think the fact
that we were able to sing songsin a way that people weren't

(07:50):
able to pigeonhole us as agospel brand, but we were doing
worship, it felt so other thanit felt so different, it felt so
inspired.
Yeah, and I think I love whatyou said about we struggle,
we're black, like, talk a littlebit more about that.
What does that mean to you?
The black experience?

Speaker 3 (08:02):
is.
You know, especially when youain't got no money and when
you're raised in the church.
First of all, you, like our,our, we were raised under strict
guidelines and strict laws,like you know, we had to really
abide by.
We was in church monday throughsunday.
You know I'm saying tentrevivals and choir rehearsals
and sleeping on the floors atshut-ins and all kind of stuff.

(08:23):
Like you, you had to be loyalto your church.
It's just a culture, it's a wayof being.
When you're raised as a blackkid in a church, you know what
I'm saying.
And so you go through strugglesand even though we hadn't
talked about them, when we allcame together for the first
recording, it was when we ledworship together.
We knew what it was Like.
Like, like.
Like we lead with heart, welead with passion and zeal, like

(08:44):
we don't sing from a place ofprivilege.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
We sing from a place of like,having to figure out you know
how we're going to make it Like.
We're trying to make it.
Like we need opportunities inorder to get out of our
situations or whatever the casemay be.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
And so we sang a little harder than the rest of
the worship teams out there.
I think that's a good point.
I think oftentimes what oftengets conflated in worship or
Christian music is that nodifferent than a pastor, an
evangelist, prophet, ceo,cashier at McDonald's, that you

(09:27):
guys are using your talent forGod.
But it's also a pathway tofreedom and prosperity.
That's a great one, and so Iwouldn't even use the word
prosperity because it has such aconnotation, but I would use
the word financial blessing.
That changes the landscape ofmany of our families Absolutely,

(09:49):
and JJ and I we often have thisdialogue.
It's something I've alwaysstruggled with and it's that I'm
not big on making excuses thatare centered solely on race
Right.
It's just, it's difficult forme.
I've worked really hard, alsopartially because I'm half
African, so I think that has alot to do with it.

(10:10):
But as I've matriculatedthrough life and I've come to
find this appreciation andempathy for just the overall
difficulty that exists being aminority in America, and I don't
think that, I think that of allthe spaces in the United States

(10:31):
culture and institutions thatthe institution of Christianity
struggles with that more thananybody.
And it's not that I placed myblack identity above my
Christian identity?
I don't I'm.
I'm a Christian before I'manything else.
However, just as we can have anappreciation just as I'm uh,

(10:57):
just as I follow God before I'ma husband I have an appreciation
for the needs of my wife.
Yeah, I have an appreciationfor the needs of my kids and how
they're disproportionate frommy needs as the breadwinner in
the home right, and I think thatone of the things that I
noticed because I was on theoutside looking in at Maverick

(11:19):
City for a time was thateveryone was so afraid that you
guys were going to take theirspot.
Everyone, like there wasn't whenthe Mavericks anything happened
.
There wasn't some internal ohmy God, we finally got something
that's exciting and new.
There was more of thiscondescending who is that?

(11:42):
What are they doing?
Why do videos look like that?
Why it sound like that?
Instead of people rallyingaround you guys and kind of
holding your hands and saying,yo man, this is really different
.
This is, this is reallysomething new that we can we can
embrace, it was almost likeeveryone looked for every excuse
not to embrace it.
Did you guys feel that?

(12:03):
Did you?
Did you sense that?
Like, how did that?
How did that?
How did that it?
Did you guys feel?

Speaker 3 (12:08):
that.
Did you sense that?
Like, how did that come acrossto you guys?
Yeah, for sure, we felt thatand I feel like I could have
been more of a help and a teamplayer, because I did feel like
the trailblazer of the group,because I was socially accepted
into circles that they weren'tyet, even though they had
popping videos, like when itcomes to k love and the doves
and bethel music and jesusculture and hill song, like I

(12:28):
had already worked with allthese people prior to volume one
or after volume one actually,and I feel like, instead of even
though I did contribute and Iwas there for my team, I feel
like, um, I could have been moreof an advocate.
But, yeah, I not only did Ifeel that I was around the
people who's saying it, I wasaround gatekeepers, that was

(12:51):
saying it, but they wouldexclude me from it at the time
and um, I think, too, there'sanother dynamic.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
There's two very clear things that are happening.
Right.
There's, uh, you guys are likethe former, like I know Chandler
started with Travis and haddone some stuff with Ty and you
had done some stuff with Eddie,had done some stuff with Travis,
so you guys kind of come out oflike, oh man, these are these.

(13:19):
Guys were like helping some ofthese gospel artists lose
worship, and now they'reeverywhere.
Like who are these people?
The other side of it was likewho me and tony were at the time
, like we were.
It was a little people didn'treally know us, um, especially
in the gospel community, likepeople didn't have context for
us.
There was even, uh, one of theways I met you was, uh, there

(13:43):
were these rumors that weregoing around saying that that we
were white, that the people whoowned Maverick City were white,
and I thought that was reallyinteresting.
Close, if you ask me, oh mygosh.
But yeah.
So I think those are thedynamics that are at play at the
very beginning, that kind ofyou feel, this opposition, and

(14:04):
honestly, we also kind of hadthis attitude to us where we
kind of didn't play by the rules, like I remember a few moments,
through key moments, throughour kind of beginning, where we
kind of pushed away from thosepeople that wanted to kind of
maybe bring us closer or have usdo some things that they
thought were more industrystandard, and we just were very

(14:24):
other than we were very maverickin that.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
So I think those Until we did play by the rules.
And then I feel like it startedgetting sticky.
Like what Expound on that?
Like if Joel or Aaron I'm noteven going to advocate for Joel,
but like if Aaron had a song,it would be like Tori or not
Tori Kelly.
If Katie Trawalk came in townshe would get the record on the

(14:47):
stage and then our own teammatewouldn't.
Or like if you know, we startedswapping out our real team for,
like famous Christian peoplethat didn't even really they
loved us and they were with us,but I'm saying they weren't
really on the team, like that.
But I feel like that's when youknow, know, sometimes like that
can bring the vision, just withthe group.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Do you feel like that was a misstep on our part?

Speaker 3 (15:11):
too.
Yeah, like it was a misstepwith keeping the morale really
high because, like, everybodyplayed their little part.
Like you had like four mainpeople right, and then you had
people that played their part tomake it this iconic group.
You know what I'm saying, thatyou know we couldn't do it
without Lizzy, even though, likeLizzy necessarily didn't have
like the biggest record withMaverick City, but it was her

(15:31):
style.
It looked like it.
Just we created this Lizzyperson.
It was team, yeah, and so Ifeel like we just should have
just kept it a team, like wedidn't need that many people to

(15:51):
come in and do all this stufflike, but at the same time,
everything happens for a reason.
You know I'm saying so.
You got to give thanks in allthings, but I do feel like that
was one of the one of the thingsthat we did that made people
feel unworthy I want to staythere for a minute, I think.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
I think one of the things of this conversation that
is going to be super importantis that so many people have so
many opinions of so many thingssurrounding you, Mal us.
Who are these overarchingforces and all of these things,
and I think that this is goingto be a real humanization,

(16:21):
personification of what actuallythis journey has been.
I think one of the beautifulthings of this moment is we
brothers, we're talkingbasically every day.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
You know we're back in fellowship.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
And we've already talked about this stuff.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, we've talked about it.
You know what I mean.
We've definitely already talkedabout it, but we've never sat
and let people know that, likethis is what family is.
Yeah, family, you go a season,you don't talk to your cousin
for a year and a half you knowwhat I mean.
Then you get back to the familyreunion.
He got on some dope shoes.
You're like, bro, what you beenup to, you know what I mean and

(17:00):
so like that's good, becauseyou know, when I came around,
one of the things that was bigwas that if you wrote the song,
you sang the song.
Right, that's kind of how thisthing, that's kind of how it
kicked off, like if you writethe song, you sing the song.
I guess that's a littledifferent because Naomi did sing
Promises, but the point thatI'm getting at was that was the

(17:20):
original ethos, and so you feellike when Maverick began to
bring in feature artists to kindof commercialize what was
happening in the raw, genuineworship room, it began to
fracture the morale and theunity of the group.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
I mean it wasn't commercialized because we were
already huge, we were already ina stadium.
I mean it wasn't commercializedbecause we were already huge,
like we were already in astadium.
But we were already likeselling records in stadiums,
getting nominated for all theawards, but that's not even
important.
I know people are like oh, it'snot about that, I get it Like,
but I'm saying we were alreadycommercial.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
No, you're giving context.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Yeah, I'm giving context, and so while we were at
that level, I feel like somepeople felt forgotten about.
You know what I mean the peoplethat helped us get to that
level.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
What could have like I want to press it, like what
could have been like all right,cool, we here, we get ready to
go on tour.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
I can give you what happened.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
I can give you a situation.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
All right.
One time we was backstage right, everybody know Amos is my best
friend, right, he be riding forme.
I ride for him.
Like, sometimes, to a fault, Iget in trouble.
Like I think sometimes, like Ireally forfeit my career.
I forfeited my career for myfriend.
Like, literally I did, I couldstill have my career.
I could have never been at oddswith anybody if he didn't have

(18:47):
issues.
Okay, like, that's where mythat's the origin story of like,
where I started feeling like oh, I'm a backtalk, I ain't coming
to soundcheck because I'm Dante.
They might treat him like that.
They can't get rid of me.
I never knew this and so Iwould just be sassy because I
didn't like how they wastreating my best friend and um,

(19:10):
but one time we was backstageand um, they were like, hey, we
got to get rid of one songbecause we got so-and-so coming
in and I could see his face.
Man, he was just like I knowthey're gonna get rid of my son.
You know he already putting hishead down and and we had a
bunch of stars.
Granted, we did have a bunch ofstars on the road.
So you got to figure out whatthe it's really about our

(19:32):
followers too.
Like we're trying to like makesure the room is like feeling
like the presence of God andlike that the songs make sense.
And sometimes you got to get ridof the song that people don't
know that often.
And sometimes you got to getrid of the song that don't
people don't know that often,you know I'm saying I get that,
but uh, so yeah, they got, theygot rid of his song and I was
just like, hey, ain't nobody getrid of, no, I'm just fussing.

(19:54):
And I can see the team facelike, oh, here we go, like and I
feel like that's when itstarted with me doing all that,
like you know, and people likewhat did you used to do?
I would get attitudes likethroughout the tour just because
, like he couldn't, like he'sgonna get fired, he can get
fired like that, like it wouldtake a long time for me to get
fired you were putting them on,you were, you were fighting for

(20:15):
him I was fighting for him, likeI I knew he was a star I mean,
he's still growing and learningbut like I just felt like dang,
like take my song off.
And that's what I was tellinghim Take my record off.
No, we can't take your recordoff.
I'm like, well, let him sing.
I Thank God With Me.
And that's how that happened.
That's how Aaron startedclosing the show out with me,
because I just started feelingbad for him and Joel.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
I'm glad you brought that up.
This is one of the things aboutwe talk about this all the time
, cle.
I'm glad you brought that up.
This is one of the things aboutwe talk about this all the time
collaborating.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
Oh wait, wait, wait.
Last thing no, go ahead.
And the reason why I didn'tfight for everybody is because,
like, he's a part of theoriginal story, yeah, for sure,
from beginning to the end.
Like that's why, like, listen,we added people here and there
that contributed, but like thenyou had they're from the start,
they're from the beginning.
When you hear the records, youhear them.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
So anyway, yeah, no, I mean, we talk about
collaboration all the time andcollaboration's beautiful when
it works and when it's in theshiny lights and you get to tour
it and you get to sell therecords.
But this is kind of theunderbelly of collaboration,
right For real, when you are andwe saw this every single,
whether it was brandon orchandler or naomi or you it's

(21:28):
like the artists.
You guys have your own edge,you have your.
You have clarity of what you dowhen you get on a stage.
And a lot of times not a lot oftimes, all the time that you
guys were together and didmaverick city, y'all had to pull
that back and sort of bemindful of how everybody else
fit into the story.

(21:48):
And for a lot of people who areout there who don't maybe know
that, that's really difficult.
That's really really hard tofeel like you have a gift and
calling purpose, clarity of whatyou're supposed to be doing
with your life, and to feel likeyou have to share that but then
also have to learn how to sharethat.
And I think that's somethingthat at first we were really

(22:10):
really, really good at, but Ithink as we started to tour, we
started to right, I think a lotof things just kind of had to
come into a certain place and Ithink one of my regrets is and I
wish we were a lot more clearabout how we were going to move
into that season and set upeveryone's expectations better

(22:30):
but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
I think this is one of the conversations where it's
like really easy for me todiagnose, because I wasn't
writing the music, I wasn'tproducing the music.
I wasn't writing the music, Iwasn't producing the music.
I was just there to basicallyexecute on larger vision and
what I would see a lot to befair, you weren't really even a

(22:54):
part of that like that westarted getting mad at each
other.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
You came after we already didn't like each other
like that.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
But he also came at an inflection point.
We had just finished OCB and wemade the decision within a week
.
He came after we already didn'tlike each other like that, but
he also came at an inflectionpoint.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we had justfinished OCB and we made a
decision within a week that wewere going to go do this tour,
and it was.
We were already late to put thetour out.
So there's all these outsideforces that are like we're doing
the tour.
We just dropped the biggestrecord of Christian music in the

(23:22):
past X.
Whatever.
There's pressure for things tobe answered.
There's photos that need to betaken, billboards that need to
be made.
Well, whose face?
Like?
Hey, we can only put five faceson the billboard.
How many?
Whose faces are we putting up?
Hey, we can only put threefaces on the billboard.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Like those are the things.
Whose decision was it to takemy face off the billboard,
jonathan?

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Those are the things Whose decision was it to take my
face off the billboard?
Jonathan Jay, Can you answerthe question please?

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah, I mean I don't, because I wrote Old Church
Basement yeah, and I sang it too.
That's one of the only songs onthe album with no features.
It's only Dante Bo.
I sang the whole song, from topto bottom, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
I think it's funny and I've never said this out
loud and I hope I'm not.
I don't I don't mean to say thisto be offensive, but I think,
in the spirit of trying to becollaborative, I think we let
some things slide that, lookingback on them, they hurt people
and they had implications.
And I mean I'll just tell youthis right now like our

(24:22):
leadership in that moment washorrible, like we should have
had a conversation, we shouldhave advocated for you to be on
that photo, and I know we'vetalked about this off off camera
.
But yeah, I mean, I think theseare the things that I think
when I look back and I go.
Those are more of the story ofwhy things felt so fractured,
right, because we were trying tofigure this thing out.

(24:43):
We're fractured right becausewe were trying to figure this
thing out.
We're getting asked questions,we're having to put names, and
it's just like, well, wait asecond, let's huddle here, let's
figure out, like, what thepriority is, let's figure out,
like, whose face should be, andI think, because we didn't do
that, it left things open-endedand yeah, I mean there was.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
It made it worse I think the reality that we don't
speak to a lot um is that we'rea lot of out.
Look, you're talking about youhave, so it was Furtick.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
LOL, I'm just kidding .

Speaker 2 (25:17):
We're talking about.
Hey, I wasn't a part of thedecision making.
I don't know a part of thedecision making I don't know.
But you're talking about atthis time you have Chandler,
naomi, brandon, dante, joelleBarnes, lizzie Morgan, rhino,
faye, aaron, moses, mj and MaryAnn George, right, you have nine

(25:44):
artists.
None of them got deals, right?
You guys you and Brandon arefinishing up y'all Belter deals
and getting out of them.
Y'all publishing deals is allup.
We just released this oldchurch basement.
Our first show is a sold outshow in Sacramento.
You know y'all people tellingy'all Maverick making all of

(26:08):
this money.
People telling y'all y'allgetting robbed.
People telling y'all that ifyou come over here it'll be like
this.
And I think the reality of itis imagine taking the best
player off of every NBA team.
There's still going to be ahierarchy, like at the All-Star
game.

(26:28):
Lebron's still going to get thelast shot, although KD take the
last shot when he on the Suns.
In the All-Star game, lebron,like if you watch the Olympics,
there's a deference that waspaid.
The difference amongst y'all wasthere wasn't much difference
outside of existing friendgroups when they came in right.
So you had Dante, Aaron andJoel that kind of knew each

(26:53):
other prior.
Naomi was y'all knew ofChandler, but he wasn't in y'all
friend group.
You know what I mean?
Brandon as well, he was solodolo.
Lizzie solo dolo.
Her and Chandler knew eachother, but she was solo dolo and
Marianne was solo dolo.
And so what you see happening iseverybody evaluating the

(27:16):
experience of Maverick Citythrough their own lens.
There is no overarching man ofGod that y'all all got to bow
down to, that y'all all got toanswer to.
It's this egalitarian approachthat, or the democratic approach
that, whatever the groupdecides, it is.
And in that moment, like ithappens in all democracies,
people want to fight for theiridentity, politics right, for

(27:40):
the things that matter to them,for the things that matter to
them.
And the outside forces, what Ibelieve, were able to pick apart
and fracture the very cohesiveunit that they never wanted to
exist in the first place.
That's how I see that time,that when you look back on the

(28:05):
time and the season, the resultof what ended up taking place is
what they always wanted, right.
And when I say they, I mean youget what I'm saying.
When I say they, I mean theindustry, the places that are
inviting people one-on-one now,the places that say, hey, I only
want these two, because thereality is, the entire unit was

(28:31):
something.
It was the Avengers, it wassomething that couldn't be
rivaled, and the way that youknock that down or you knock
that off is to play into thethings that matter to each
person more than what matters tothe group.
And, over time, what happened is, because we're not a church and

(28:53):
the ultimate decision is eachindividual person, you lose this
sense of well, why I'm going todo what's in Chandler's best
interest I don't trust him to dowhat's in my best interest why
I'm going to do what's in mybest interest.
I don't know what they're doingwhat's in my best interest, but
now I bet if we could all lookback and we see the results of

(29:15):
what it is.
That man, all those people thatsaid they was going to be where
they at now you know what Imean.
All those people that said youcan't where they at now.
You know, yeah, they'll cally'all in right, here and there,
but as soon as something happens, oh, you can't come to my
church, no more.
Oh, you know, we excommunicatedhim for woo-da-woo-da-woo and

(29:35):
all of that's even fluff.
That's all used to leverage youand your talent into what they
want to use it for.
And what I'll say and I alwayssaid it and I tell all the
artists this is that JJ and Tony, to their own detriment, only
wanted what was best for y'all.
What they didn't know was howto do it.

(29:58):
They're not business guys,they're not businessmen, they're
artists.
They didn't know from day onethat this thing was going to
blow up and become this giganticworship group.
They just wanted to write somesongs with some black kids in
white spaces and break down theglass ceiling and bury that.
It always existed.

(30:19):
And so I wanted to add thiscontext, because I think it's
super important when people arelooking at what this is today,
and because it was about six,seven, eight.
It was a hundred different fakemaverick cities that rose up.
The reason they never becameanything is because one was
called by God to do this, andthe reason why we always can

(30:41):
find common ground is becausewithin us there's a purpose that
doesn't go away.
There's a purpose, aunification that, no matter what
we went through, I can alwaysfind it in myself to say you
know, dante said, you know weneed to reach out to Aaron.
Well, let's reach out to Aaron,let's reach out to MJ, let's

(31:01):
call Joel, let's see what's up,because the will of God is more
important than any pride, anyart, any offense that we hold in
today.
Yeah, for sure, that's justwhat I wanted to make sure we
hit Like man.
This is bigger than us, forsure.
It's bigger than the money,it's bigger than the fame, it's
bigger than a big song.
There's something about theunity that we held together that

(31:25):
was special, unique and it waslife transformative for a lot of
people.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
It's kind of weird to even be in the middle of that,
because, I mean, we felt allthose things, we sensed all
those things, but we also hadthose other realities that were
fighting us.
So it was this weird, like itwas.
Disorienting is what I'm tryingto say, because you feel the
power of what we're doingtogether, you see the effect of
it, you see God's hand oneverything, but you also feel

(31:55):
these other realities that arecompeting against that, and
sometimes it's really hard toeven voice that, because is this
a safe place to talk about that?
I'm just thinking about howartists might've felt like is
this a safe place for me to evenvoice this?
And how do I do that?
Well, so, yeah, I, I mean Iecho what you said 100, yeah we.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
We were young too, you know, I mean, and there was
nothing pulling us together.
I wish I prayed like I do nowthen, but like there was nothing
like keeping us together, likeeverything was pulling us apart,
like even when we startedtalking to, like execs, it would
be private meetings, like westopped having team meetings
unless it was like to get rid ofDante.

(32:39):
No, I'm just kidding but yeah, Imean, we here I feel like I
feel like there's a lot ofthings was pulling us apart, and
I mean, even on my end, youknow, I'm saying like I had my
own little thing happening and Iwas, you know, definitely
operating as an individual, andother people might feel that
they did the same thing, youknow, at some points, but I

(33:00):
think, more so for me, I reallywas, you know yeah, we felt that
, but I felt I remember feelinglike, oh he's, and I don't know
that it was a bad thing per se.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
It just was, oh, he's focused on dante bow.
Yeah, I was just doing whatbrandon lake doing now, like I
like I was doing that den, and Idon't know that it was a bad
thing per se, it just was oh,he's focused on Dante Bowe.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
Yeah, I was just doing what Brandon Lake doing
now.
I was doing that then and Ifeel like if I can go back in
time which I can't I wouldprobably bring people along my
journey and make all my winstheir wins.
And when I'm performing at theaward show, like make it about
my team and pay homage to thepeers that I really respected.

(33:41):
Like you know, I reallyrespected my team.
It was just hard for me to givemyself to it 100% after just
feeling like, oh man and thatand it was more so just about my
best friend, like I neverreally got left out of anything
until Old Church Basement.
I never felt like out of theloop until then.

(34:02):
You know what I'm saying and Iget why I was like out of the
loop what I was going to say.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
We can hit that.
We can expand on that in asecond as we continue through, I
think 30 minutes in.
I think the questioneverybody's waiting on is did
you leave Maverick City andwhat's the story behind the?

Speaker 3 (34:27):
statement.
I did leave Maverick City so wedidn't kick you out.
No, they did not kick me out,they just asked me to sit down
for six months and I can't, Ican't, I gotta make another
album.
I'm hot, like I made a mistake,like with the photo that

(34:52):
everybody at this point is like100 interviews, but even the
Tamra Hall interview, you knowwhat I mean.
But like, yes, it was.
We know now it was a photo forsure.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
So we didn't kick you out for bad buddy.
Did we ever even mention badbuddy to you?
No, no, no.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
We never even talked about that stuff.
No, no, no, like, never Like,like, never like.
It was never anything besidesthat one incident, necessarily,
you know, obviously, like beingyoung people in a group, like we
had plenty of stuff pop upthroughout our lives.
We were spending years of ourtime together and growing at the
same time, but I'm talkingabout like as far as kicking out

(35:31):
or like sitting down.
It was this instance only thatit was ever brought up, and at
the time we didn't know whatwould come of the photo like.
So it could have been huge, itcould have been what it was, but
it was like nothing, you know,I mean.
But at the same time it stillhappened, and so that's the
reason why I was asked to, um,like step away for six months
that I could come back and likewe'll figure it out from there.

(35:52):
But I was just so mad at themlike I really was mad at these
people like, because it was justI know they didn't like me,
like that you know what I'msaying?

Speaker 1 (36:02):
what do you say them?
Who do you mean?

Speaker 3 (36:07):
who do I mean?

Speaker 1 (36:08):
you mean me yeah, you like.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
You Like Brandon Lake .
Yeah, like Tony, notnecessarily you.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
It's funny because the three of us were the only
people that were really talkingduring that whole, when we were
trying to figure out what wewere going to do next after the
photo drop.
Like it was the three of us andI felt like I'm talking to a
crisis team, y'all.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Yeah.
No, it photo drop Like it wasthe three of us and I felt like
I'm talking to a crisis team,y'all yeah no it was crazy.
Yeah, it was a lot.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, I mean, one of the things that you know goes
unsaid is like we were strapped.
I mean, I had a heart.
I've known Dante prior to himbeing in Maverick City.
You know he, I think he was.
I did the first song.
You hired me, yeah, I did, butyou didn't show up one time.
So you know me, he hired me too.
Oh wait.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Normie hired me to sing Beachy Beans for Travis
Green when I was young and thenI looked on the planning center
cause I got bro, I had the flu,I couldn't come to sing.
It was a big conference and soI looked on the planning center.
I was nowhere, like he justfired me straight up and when I
blew up I was so happy youremoved people from the planning

(37:20):
center before or after youfired them, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
I was in the BGV at the time.
You gotta ask.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Blair Rand that stuff but yeah, there's a lot of.
There's a lot of old TravisBGVs that are like now in the
worship world.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, for sure, aaron played keys for us.
Zeke, yeah, zeke.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Dante Chandler.
We love Travis.
We looked up to.
Travis, yeah, travis, we lovedhim Like for real, Everybody
loved.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Travis.
Travis is the OG.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
But yeah, bro, I feel like you know, I'm like, okay,
they are offering me, you know,they said they'll pay me like to
even sit down for six.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
We wanted to cover your salary.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
We wanted to cover your team salary.
They could have bored me mylifestyle crazy.
They could probably, but I wasstill just mad at them, man, and
I think, my, I don't regret it,I don't regret, I don't regret
leaving.
Wow, I don't regret leaving, Idon't regret.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
I don't regret leaving.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Wow, I don't regret leaving.
I think it was right for me,and I also don't regret being
friends.
Now you know what I'm saying,like coming back, talking and
like like building ourbrotherhood.
Now you know what I'm saying.
I feel like I needed to go awayand I needed to build something
from the ground up, even ifit's not as prolific as the

(38:34):
group I was in before.
I needed humility.
I needed to be by myself,isolated.
I moved to a different cityalone, without my friends,
without Aaron, without Joey.
I needed all that you know whatI'm saying To be who I am right
now, even though it sucked, bro, looking at Jackie putting me
in the side of the stage whereI'm nominated for Songwriter of

(38:56):
the Year and stuff, she didn'tgive me that middle seat, no
more.
That hurt my feelings.
Jackie Patilla, gma, that's mygirl.
That's my girl Like she.
Yeah, you know I was hostingthe pre-show right before that,
right before Maverick postedthat on Instagram.
Do you know why we had to postthat?
They took me off the pre-show.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
You said what?
Do you know why we had to postthat?
Oh, Do you understand why wehad to post that?

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Yeah, I just told them, like because we didn't
know what would come of thisphoto, like it could have been
what I mean, gave me favor andgraced me, or it could have been
some crazy moment like you knowwhat I'm saying that would
affect every single personthat's a part of my team, so I

(39:42):
think that's why y'all had tosay something.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Got it?
Do you feel like it was?
And I'm asking these questions.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
They were mean to me.
We was mean to you, not y'all,like my team, my peers was mean
to me, like they didn't text meor call me or say nothing to me.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, I want to talk about that.
What did that mean to you, Likewhen you heard radio silence,
Like what does that?

Speaker 3 (40:07):
I didn't hear complete radio silence.
It's Naomi, chandler, lizzy andMJ called me.
Let that sit, and they said wedidn't want this to happen but
we were under pressure to do it,and you know it is something

(40:28):
that you know.
It is my own consequence I haveto deal with.
However, like they did hit meup and you and Norman, that's it
.
And so then I knew who did itLike, I knew who was really like
, really wanted me like to sitdown, and I get it.
I get it Like I'm just I'm awild card.

(40:51):
You know, like I think peoplelike what I do.
I'm just I'm a wild card.
You know, like I think peoplelike what I do.
I'm the fastest rider, I'm thelike, I'm the fastest rider, I'm
the hardest worker, like I goharder than anybody Like, and I
feel like that just comes withsome struggles here and there.
Like, even though that wasn't aparticular struggle, that was

(41:11):
really an accident, Thank God.
But at the same time, I feellike people want me to be like
this, this perfect person, butthe reason why they love me or
like me is because of of my edgeand how I'm still growing in
front of them and likeprocessing my life in front of
them, in front of them, and likeprocessing my life in front of
them, like I really don't lie orhide on the internet as much as

(41:34):
you know people in my genrehide and lie, you know what I'm
saying like I will be honest,like oh, lil Nas X, or I will
dance to Bad Bunny.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
I posted all this like no one ever out of me no
one ever out of me for anything.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
I just I posted all of this on the internet like no
one's ever done that to me doyou regret being on the red
carpet saying that you wasexcited like what describe that
moment?

Speaker 2 (42:02):
you you the most nominated gospel artist ever and
won Grammy Awards.
They ask you who you excitedabout that's how God works, bro.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
No, I don't regret that because that was real.
I just talked a little niceLike, so I was telling him like
bro, I'll see you, man, I wantto work with you one day.
Yeah, like I could see like theheart of the guy.
Like I don't necessarily likepeople try to make it seem like
I was thinking about himtwerking on the devil, like I

(42:34):
don't even think about it.
I never even seen the video forreal.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Besides, the clips that Christians keep posting all
over the internet.
You know what I'm saying?
Someone asked me about it and Iwas like no, no, no, he's
talking strictly from like amusic lover.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
They just like to pick on me because I'm just
talkative, like I just say stuff, but like I obviously wasn't
talking about this specificvideo.
I really think he's a creativegenius and I feel like I wanted
to do it at the time.
I wanted to do a Christianrecord with him, a real one.
I really did want to do onewith him, and so when I got to

(43:07):
the interview, I had just talkedto him.
When I got to the interview,that's the first name that came
to my head, because I wasliterally just talking to him
and my ex-girlfriend loved LilNas and so she was always
playing him.
So it was just in my head atthe time Like it was no, like of
course there's other people Iwanted to see Like they just
couldn't come to my head fastenough and I didn't know who all

(43:27):
was performing and so it justcame out.
I don't it.
I don't regret that, I onlyregret that photo.
By the way, in my entire careerI only regret one thing, and
it's that photo.
I could have still been dantesaying that what I said on the
carpet and I, because I know myheart, you know what I'm saying
it was pure.

(43:47):
It had nothing to do with anysalaciousness or any sexual.
You know what I mean?
It was just straight up lovefor his music and Dancing.
The Bad Bunny, I wasn't in aparty bus, I was in a Sprinter
and it was my best friend'sbirthday.
You know what I'm saying andwhoever playing, we love Chanoia

(44:11):
, chanoia, no, no, no, we lovethat song.
I'm not ashamed of that.
Your favorites love that song,like everybody love that song.
So they just not telling y'allthat you know what I'm saying,
yeah, and so I'm like, why wouldI hide?
You know I get it, but that didnot end my career, that did not
.
That did not.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
I remember and this was a very poignant moment for
us.
I think it was like kind of thelast time we spoke for a while,
but it was that night thateverything came out and I
remember one of the things Ifelt like you were communicating
to me in the moment was likejust that, exactly, like dude,
all these people do X, y and Zand they get to whatever.
And I'm the one and do youremember any of that

(44:49):
conversation?
Do you remember?
Yeah, and I'm the one and doyou remember?
Do you remember any of thatconversation?
Do you remember?
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Yeah, I felt uncovered but, at the same time,
like I wasn't uncovered.
I was covered.
It was just my time.
I had to face the smoke.
Like you know what I'm saying,like it was just my time, just
like a lot of other of yourfavorite preachers and these
people that have a moment, youknow, in the public eye that
could really like it's justdetrimental to you know a season

(45:18):
of their career.
It was just.
I was one of those people.
I never thought I would be oneof those people.
None of us do.
We all have regular flaws, likeeverybody, from your favorites
to your least favorites.
They all have a lot of thesimilar flaws.
Some people get uncovered Idon't know how to say it not
uncovered, but sometimes it'sjust people's time to deal with

(45:41):
the public scrutiny and I don'tknow why I felt like I wasn't
going to be one of those people.
But it was my time.
It was hard, bro.
It was hard and I could havebeen really depressed about it.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Yeah, I mean, you know one of the questions we
have is that, like yourdeparture man, you know it
stirred a lot of speculation.
You know what I mean and I meanhow have you handled it?
You know what I'm saying thepublic reaction, what lessons
did you take away from theexperience?

Speaker 3 (46:08):
I was like should I just tell the world everything I
know about every single personI ever met?
And I was like that's gross,like I don't know.
That was my first thing thatcame to my head.
Like do some Dante stuff?
Like you know some Dante stuff?

(46:29):
I was like that's actually gross, that's not my character and I
maintain that throughout myrollout, whatever any interviews
, I would just tell the story asnatural as possible and I
really don't think it's mybusiness.
Like other people's falls arelike failures and stuff like
that, and I would never wantwhat happened to me to happen to
anybody at the hands of my likeby my hands.

(46:52):
You know I'm saying.
And so I just chose to take thehigh road as much as possible
and talk crap about everybodywith my friends.
So that's what I did.
I just that kept me from beingdepressed.
It's just talk shit with myfriends and and in public, just
keep safe face and be nice andhug brandon, like at the dove

(47:14):
awards.
Like do do you know?
Do your due diligence?
Like be a good person and don'tallow this situation to ruin it
.
Like ruin your life for real.
You know I'm saying becauseit's always a comeback.
You know I'm saying and Iactually started to love
everybody that was a part ofMaverick slowly, without talking

(47:35):
to everybody, like I startedactually being able to cheerlead
and be cool.
The more my life got better youknow I'm saying the more I felt
comfortable, like showing up toa Chandler thing or like me and
Naomi ate dinner in New York atthe Tori Kelly concert.
I actually went and I didn'twant, like I was like you know,
I'm gonna go like little stuff,like coming to write with y'all,
like a few weeks ago, and likejust healing.

(47:57):
That's all.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
It took some therapy and some healing and I mean I
forgave y'all without talking,like without talking to you yeah
, that was very interestingbecause I remember the first
time that we spoke, it was likeyou were very clear, like, like
hey, that's good, man, we'regood.
Because I wanted to be like heyman, you know, we said this and
you were very clear from thebeginning.

(48:19):
Like no man, like we're good.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
Yeah, I feel that and that's how I felt when I first
saw everybody.
I'm just like, I don't have nomalice in my heart.
I did what I did, you know.
I mean, I have to face themusic like it was still my
decision and you can't put it onanother man to, like, you know,
do what you would do in asituation.

(48:42):
I had to, you know, deal withmy own consequences and I and
I've come to terms with that.
That's the in, like I guess,say in general, that's my
takeaway.
It's like I did it and it'sstill my consequence.
You know I'm saying and um,whether or not my brother's
covered me or not, it's notreally the point of it.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
It was my lesson to learn so I know, one night you
and brandon was on tiktok andyou said you was never coming
back to Maverick.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
I probably had some Sir Davis, some Sir Davis.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
You know what Sir Davis is.
I'm assuming it's some alcohol.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
I'm just kidding, I didn't.
I don't know why.
I mean, I can't remember what Isaid.
I said I was never coming backyou said you was.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
I'm never coming back to Maverick, oh well.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
I guess that's what I said.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
I don't know how do you feel today?
Like where's your head in thatperspective as you sit here
right now?

Speaker 3 (49:47):
um, that's a big, big , big question, like, obviously,
like we just started writingand I wrote with Chandler on me
the other day in Nashville, Iloved it, I missed it.
Um, like, I don't have no beeffor nobody.
So I guess it would be like if,if the chips fail, like that,

(50:11):
that way, then I would go withwhatever God wanted for my life.
And if everybody was happy,like my friends, my family, then
I would be more open to it.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
What would that mean for your current transition into
R&B?

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Oh, it's just what it is.
I'm an artist, I just be makingmusic.
I don't take it as serious aspeople think I do.
I really love creating music.
I make it in my sleep, and sowhen it comes to me being R&B, I
just make R&B music now fromtime to time, but I make

(50:52):
Christian music too.
If Sabrina Carpenter wanted asong, I would write one for her
too.
I just like making music.
I want to be successful, but Idon't know where I'll end up.
I might do a worship album.
I love Jesus first, beforeanything anybody.

(51:13):
So I might do a worship album.
Or if something mixed andmastered in there everybody's
like ooh, it's a hit, I mightdrop it.
It might be an R&B record.
I don't know.
I don't know, bro.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
I think, yeah, I mean I definitely.
I mean kind of going back tothe genius of I look back at
some of the first you know fewalbums and projects we did and I
just I see you all over it.
I remember just so vividly yourgenius and your creativity just
shines through, even the otherday just having you back around

(51:49):
and just I don't know, I don'tknow where you are in that
journey or where your headspaceis.
But I mean, I definitely thinkthere's calling and purpose.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
I'm called to lead worship.
I'm one of the best worshipleaders in the world.
Like I watch my videos, Likewhen I want to get a
breakthrough, I watch me leadworship on YouTube Wow, For real
, for real.
And then, second to that, Iwatch my Maverick City family
Like they lead better thananybody in the whole entire
world.
Let's talk about that.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Because I remember when you guys— there's no better
worship leaders.
Yeah, why is that?

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Because it's just so real.
Yeah, like I know I'm beingreal up there because I know me,
so I can lead myself intoworship like I trust me leading
me into worship.
And then I know what Chandlerbeen through, I know what Aaron
and Naomi have been through.
Like they real worship leaders,like they really serious about
this like I've, like they lovedoing it for God, like they

(52:47):
really are legit worshipers.
And I think sometimes peoplethink, because people got
struggles, that they make somefake worship leaders or
something like that.
Like nah, like I can't takeaway that they are real worship
leaders.
Like these people really dohave a heart to you, know to do
what you see them do on stage,like they really have that heart
.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
What do you say to people who you know to your
point?
What do you say to people whoare critical of maybe lifestyles
or even things they're haters?

Speaker 3 (53:16):
They don't want you to be better than like no one
wants.
It's like they love you whenyou're coming up and then when
you blow up, they hate youbecause you got money or they
hate you because you don't looksad.
I'm not going to cap.
I would say who told me to saythis?
But I I have a lot of respectfor her and she's everybody's
favorite worship leader.

(53:36):
She told me why don't you justpost some of your struggles
sometimes on the internet,instead of posting you wearing
Louis or posting you at thisfabulous dinner or like just
post sometimes that you're goingthrough it?
I'm like why the hell would Ipost?
Well, what encouragement isthat to my fans?
To be bleeding all over them,like with my personal issues?
No, I need to go to therapy,like if it when it comes to my

(53:58):
personal issues, or see mypastor, but like it's not for me
to be posting and crying on theinternet.
You know what I'm saying and Iremember a famous contemporary
Christian worship leader told meI think we just don't like that
you just posted your life is soperfect.
And so I feel like withMaverick, we have encouraged the

(54:20):
younger generation to reallychase after their dreams.
Like, just because you're aChristian don't mean you can't
sell out an arena.
We ain't never seen that beforeuntil us.
Like, just because you're aChristian don't mean you can't
know Justin Bieber, you can'tmeet Normani normani follow me,
victoria monae follow me,everybody follow me.

(54:41):
And it was maverick was popstars and they just was mad
because they weren't pop stars.
And it sucks because they'vemade this illusion to where,
like, oh no, god's not in that.
Like you can't be doingsomething for Jesus and have all
that?
Yes, you can.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
It's like that's what we talked about on another
podcast.
Yes, you can.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Christian nihilism.
Christian nihilism Just becauseit's big, it's bad Just because
it's big.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
It's bad Just because there's love.
It's bad Just because and oneof the things that I often, one
of the things that I don't say,and you're being very real,
authentic, right now, I lovethat.
One of the things I oftennoticed is that the criticism as

(55:26):
you grow seemingly come fromone sect.
Yes, of this space.
Yes, it's cultural, it's verycultural.
It's very cultural, it's verycultural.
What we're talking about, whatwe're talking, it's like,
instead of posting your Louieand Dante going with his
business partners on a privatejet, but you know, a game of
golf will run you.

(55:47):
A game of golf with 10 brotherswill run you by five figures.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
I think in some ways it's even more insidious than
that, right, because I think Imean we know, right like the
white guys spend their money,just like we do.
Have you seen fill in the blankperson's house, their car?

Speaker 3 (56:11):
they just don't post it, they just don't the whatever
you told me to do, it haseverything, exactly.
You know what?

Speaker 1 (56:19):
I'm saying I think and I think that was one of the
things that I that it was sointeresting when maverick kind
of burst on the scene, it wasthis very oh my gosh, if you
know, if you're doing me, ifyou're successful and you're a
worship leader, you definitelyshouldn't act like and it was.
I think that's cultural,because I think the churches

(56:39):
that we probably all grew up inat some point in our lives
that's normal for a pastor tohave a nice car or a nice suit
or a nice house, whereas like inyou know, maybe on the other
side of things it's maybe not asnormal.
And I just think, I think forus, what we were trying to be
was just ourselves.
We're just trying to beauthentic, like, yes, we're

(57:00):
trying to do.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
we're trying to even do more than that, and I talked
about this Inspire people?
Yeah, exactly I was talkingabout it and I want you to hit
on that too.
It's like one thing, one thingthat gets lost and it's the
nuance of this space, it's thenuance of what we do and it's
why, like in collaboration, yougot to sit down and have dinner
with somebody and we got toreally begin to stop judging

(57:26):
things on the surface, like ifyou grew up in, respectfully,
omaha, nebraska, and all youknow is your local Baptist
church and how your pastor movesaround and how your mom and dad
moved around.
I respect that.
I respect and understand thatyou may not understand what it's
like to grow up as a black manin the deep south and get your

(57:47):
head slammed against the carjust for driving down the road
too fast.
That happened to me, and mygrandmother has a degree, my
mother to me, and my grandmotherhas a degree.
My mother has a degree.
My father has a degree, mysister has a degree.
We owned more land in myhometown than anybody.
When I was growing up and, yes,yeah, like I was a straight-A

(58:08):
student, nearly perfect SATscore went to college.
Didn't matter in that momentand I didn't me, norman.
I didn't know what an engineerwas when I graduated.
I never heard of an engineerwhen I was graduating high
school, simply due to lack ofexposure.
Right, and I'm talking about mydad.

(58:31):
My mom's a pharmacist.
My dad has a doctorate inpharmacy.
My grandmother is anentrepreneur, has been owning
businesses since the 1940 godrest her soul I had never heard
of an engineer, you know, nevereven heard of it, and that's
solely based on my lack ofexposure to thing, and I and I'm

(58:52):
I'm using me as an examplebecause I wasn't some.
I didn't grow up in the hood,you know.
No disrespect to that, I didn't.
No, I grew up very privilegedrelative to many of my peers and
there's a lack of justrepresentation.
The person I looked up to withDr Parents, straight A's was TI,

(59:15):
ti and then LeBron and thenDrake.
No, no, no.

Speaker 3 (59:25):

Speaker 2 (59:26):
Those were the people I saw as successful, because
back then there was no RobertSmith, there was no Kenneth
Chennault.
Robert Smith being the privateequity owner the richest black
Oprah became the richest, butanother television star.
I knew I wasn't going to theNBA.
I knew I wasn't going to rap.
I didn't know.

(59:47):
So when I went to college thefirst time I sucked because I
didn't have a pathway or Ididn't have an example of what
success looked like.
I knew TI.
He had the candy, painted cars,he wore the chains.
I'm a, at the end of the day,culturally I'm a black man from
the South and just because I'msaved doesn't mean there's an

(01:00:08):
erasure of everything that Igrew up culturally going through
, and it doesn't make me a badguy or got it.
But I remember we was at theGrammys and because I had my
chains on, they said I didn'tlove the Lord.
Like that's asinine.
It's somewhere in the SaintLaurent suit.
Don't love God.
A guy with a 50,000 dollar golfclubs don't love God.

(01:00:32):
It's like it's such.
It's what they call micro.
What is it called?
It's microaggressions and biasbased upon cultural differences.
And these are the moments where, when you look at the Mav kids
and y'all make these silly jokesabout oh, we're flashy or we're

(01:00:53):
this, we're just not like you.
You know y'all shoes dirty, youlook like you stink.
Like I don't mean, it's justdifferent culturally and nobody
has to.
I'm not saying this to say, oh,woe is us.
Like you know.
Oh, we the little black boys.
Nah, I'm not saying this to say, oh, woe is us, like you know.

(01:01:13):
Oh, we the little black boysget beat.
No, I'm not doing that.
I'm saying this to likeappreciate that we're giving.
We're men that love the Lord,love our wives, love our
families, entrepreneurs in our30s.
We came together, we pulledeach other up, we found a way to
work together, not be crabs inthe barrel, collaborate.

(01:01:34):
We don't make content that isdegrading to our community.
We don't make content that putspeople down.
We don't make content that isself-deprecating, any of that
content that uplifts the Lordevery single day.
Put out a song today, you knowwe got a song today with

(01:01:56):
Glorilla on it, right, and soit's like oh, I knew they
worship the devil BecauseGlorilla's talking about how
much you love the Lord.
We worship the devil, she ain'tcussing on it.
And the question is why do youknow Glorilla put an album out.
If you don't, if you, ifanything right, if we're going
to keep it a buck, the onlypeople that should be listening

(01:02:18):
to the Glorilla album isGlorilla fans.
Christians shouldn't even belistening to it.
We didn't make that song.
We made Mav House forChristians.
That's already well.
We made the song with Glorillafor the people in the hospital.
We made the song with Glorillafor the people in the hospital,
absolutely, after they getthrough Hold On and TGIF,
they're going to roll into RainOn Me and they're going whoa,

(01:02:40):
what's this Glorilla BrandTalking about her baby?
Daddy hate her, but God, pleasehelp him.
Oh, and Kirk said no matterwhere you are, I ain't too far
from God.
It's for her fans.
There's a plethora of music,plethora of content for people

(01:03:00):
that are already well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Becoming all things to win some.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
We become all things to all people to win some.
And as Jesus said, the welldon't need a doctor.
I came to be a physician to thesick.
Our job, our mandate, ain'teverybody mandate.
Not everybody can sit andcollab with Glorilla because you
can't relate culturally, justas we may not be able to relate

(01:03:25):
culturally with Morgan Wallen.
He gonna have to do that collabwith somebody.
There is a cultural distinction.
She grew up Kojic, going tolock-ins.
Her middle name is Hallelujah.
Get context on a person beforeyou judge it on the surface.
And I feel like when it comesto Maverick, when it comes to
the artists in Maverick, when itcomes to our experiences and

(01:03:45):
why Dante may feel the way hefeels and the need to pop out.
Sometimes you got to pop outand show the famous.
That comes from the culturalway that we grow up.
That comes from the way that weare ingratiated in America,
because you got to be two timesas good to get half as much.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
And understand like a lot of these people in the
contemporary Christian spacecan't do anything else vocally
or visually.
So sometimes it's a burden onus when we look a certain way
and we know like Tasha can go tothe BET Awards and smash.
You can't send just any oldcontemporary artist at the MTV

(01:04:31):
Awards and they can smash, youknow what I'm saying.
She look a certain way.
She got swag Like she.
You know, it's the way wepresent ourselves as black
people, I think.
Now I don't want us to make ita race thing because they're
probably.
You got Natalie Grant, you gotpeople that can really blow and
stuff like that.
But I'm saying sometimes Trysomething else or we will get
asked to do things that you arenot going to get.

(01:04:52):
Your favorite artist will notget asked to do, absolutely you
know what I'm saying, justbecause of how we've positioned
ourselves and presentedourselves to the world.
And it has nothing to do withour faith in Jesus.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
I like to say it like this it's purpose, it's calling
yeah, it's what we have beenput on this earth to do.
Yes, and what we do is betweenus and God, yes, and the people
that he's trying to reach.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Yes, and how you feel about it is how you feel about
it Absolutely, Because we don'tdo this for a platform, we don't
do this for fans, we don't dothis for we do this to save
souls.
We'll leave the 99 for the one,like he would for the one, like
he would If it's only oneperson left and they say, and
they do the prayer of salvation,that's what we did this for man

(01:05:38):
.
Like I think people get it bitthat we're here to maintain some
platform for people that arealready.
Well, we're not.
We after the Great Commission,we not after the check that
y'all think we after and that'sanother thing people keep
mentioning about like I knowwhat it was like for you to go
R&B.
It ain't about chasing.

(01:05:58):
It's harder, it's much harder.
Dante would have made way moremoney staying as a worship
leader writing some of thebiggest songs of our generation.
We don't get like when we didthe y'all that fabric.
They chase it.
We didn't get paid to do theWill Smith thing, man.
We don't get paid to be on GlowRoller's album.

(01:06:20):
We don't get paid to do thatstuff.
We do that stuff because it'san opportunity to take the
gospel somewhere it wouldn'totherwise go.
When these shows are decidingthat, when these shows fill with
other type of content, decidethat they want to have a moment
honoring God, the Father, wherewe're proclaiming the name of

(01:06:41):
Jesus, we should all becollectively celebrating, Not
talking about.
You shouldn't go there.
Like what Do y'all read theBible?
Yeah, Jesus in the pub.
Like what Do y'all read theBible?
Yeah, Jesus in the pub.
Like he goes through Samaritanto meet the woman at the well.
Do y'all read the Bible?
Yeah, Like it's in there.

(01:07:02):
So I guess the prodigal son'sfather shouldn't have took him
back because he left.
You know what I'm like.
What Bible are we reading?
Yeah, for sure.
And then it's always this useof oh, you're not supposed to
mix light and dark.
Y'all are misusing thatscripture so horribly.
That is talking about bringingpagan gods into the temple.
That's what it's about.
It's about idolatry.

(01:07:23):
It has nothing to do aboutspending time with sinners.
Read the entire passage.
It literally goes right fromthat into talking about the
other guys not to bring intoGod's temple.
It has absolutely nothing to dowith you sitting next to your
sinning, non-believing co-workerat your job or your sinning,
non-believing boss at your job.
You fellowship with them everysingle day.

(01:07:45):
You eat lunch with them everysingle day and you have no
problem with it.
You have no problem with it.
Someone's lifestyle isn't foryou to judge, 's not?
No, now let me take that back.
We should have righteousjudgment on the way people live,
but we do it in relationshipand we do it with grace and
truth.
Yeah, we do it with grace andtruth.

(01:08:06):
If I'm with my brother, dante,and he tells me what he going
through, I'm not not going tosit with Dutch and say, hey, bro
, let's go.
Sin, sin, sin, sin, sin.
Right, he got his struggles, Igot my struggles, JJ has his
struggles.
We're not going to sit here andenable each other's struggles.
We know what's up, we know theword.
We're going to walk with eachother together.
I ain't got to beat him overthe top of the head with the

(01:08:28):
Bible.
Say the Bible, say this.
He knows what's up, and in myquiet time, in my private time,
I'm going to pray for him.
I pray to God.
He prays for me.
I pray for JJ.
I'm going to drop hints hereand there.
That's what relationship lookslike.
That's what Jesus did.
Jesus walked with Judas everyday.
Every day, Judas was castingout demons, laying hands on

(01:08:50):
people, they getting healed, andhe, the same negro that was
robbing jesus, turnt on him,kissed him on the cheek.
For what?
50 silvers, peter.
Walking with him.
Every day.
They walking with a perfect manthat's full of it all, that's
god in flesh, and and even himteaching them every day.

(01:09:10):
They fell short.
More or less the people thatmore or less us.
So I just like for me thereason why this is so important,
with you here.
It's like our goal when we gottogether to do this was it's to
save souls.
Man Right, it's to get afterthe thing God want us after.

(01:09:34):
And like we get caught up onall these nuances and fake
controversies and like findsomething that we like.
Find something real.
Like you got an issue withMaverick.
Find a real issue.
Go pick out a song that got badtheology and send it to us so
we can correct it.
Don't be talking about at theBET Awards.

(01:09:57):
We doing a satanic ritual.
With what content?
With what content?
Using scripture from Job?
Like how can?
What did you say?
How can Beelzebub be againstBeelzebub?
Like how the devil going to usethe?
Like that's a kingdom divided.

(01:10:19):
You're not going to use theword of God against the word of
God.
It just doesn't make any sense.
Like those are the things whereit's like it really grinds my
gears and I get on these.
Like I get on these about thisbecause, man, it's not that it's
not fair, it's disingenuous,yeah, it's disingenuous, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
All the way.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
It's disingenuous man .
I just I'm going to stay out ofthe award show thing because I
know what I did.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
What about that, though you know, you went and
did the Dance at the Soul TrainAward.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
I ate it up, I ate it up.
I just wanted to be a star fora little while.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
Do you, and so we've talked about that privately.
I want the people to understand, like, what is your reflection
on that season?
Because we've talked about thatprivately and I think this will
help some young artists, like,as you reflect back on that
season and I know we kind of gotoff.
But this is important, likethis conversation is super
important, because I do believeDante has gone through some

(01:11:29):
unnecessary strife, just being a20 year old man finding his
journey in life.
Just as I believe that therewas unnecessary criticism toward
what the entire group and theindividuals in Maverick City
have done and not enoughappreciation for what, what, the

(01:11:51):
what these guys really broughtto the table and instead of
coalescing around and mentoringand that's how I feel- that is
how I feel, man, like we shouldbe honored at some point in some

(01:12:12):
ways.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
Like I felt like it was always criticism and trying
to prove ourselves to peoplethat you know went before us or
just trying to like fit in, youknow, trying to make us fit in,
and all these.
It was a horrible, horribleseason of our lives.

(01:12:33):
Being as big as we were becauseof our own people, our own
industry.
It was really like hard for us.
I'm talking even while we werefriends oh, I know we were close
friends.
We would struggle, because itwas always some older person in
our world trying to beat us downor say this or spread this room

(01:12:55):
, like really trying to hurt.
And I think they didn't look atus as kids because we were so
popular, so big and so anointed.
They saw us as like their ageor older.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
They saw you as competition.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
Yeah, they did, but we were young man, we were like
kids trying to figure this out,and there was some crazy stuff
being said about us, and so itwill always distract us.
So that caused a lot of strife.
But as far as the season I wentthrough with my last album and
with Wind Me Up, it's justsomething I felt like was

(01:13:34):
appropriate for where I was.
That's what I was doing, likethat's what I was on.
So I wanted to have a party onthe beach.
I did a video partying on thebeach with some of them A lot of
them was my friends, you knowwhat I'm saying.
And so I've always tried to behonest in my art and honest with
my fans about where I am.

(01:13:55):
I mean with discretion, ofcourse, but like that was just
honestly where I was.
I was having fun, and not funlike recklessness, but I was
outside.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Do you understand why people had an issue with it?
Yeah, I was outside.

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
Do you understand why people had an issue with it?
Yeah, I made it knowing likesome people wouldn't be fond of
it, but a lot of people liked it, a lot of people loved it and
it opened doors for me thatweren't open before.
And I don't know what my nextthing is.
You know what I'm saying, but Idon't regret doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
I got a different question.
I'm saying, but I'm not, Idon't regret doing that.
I got a different question andin a different podcast we talked
about the supporters saw youguys as their worship pastors.
Did you feel like you were theworship pastor to people
following you To support us, thefans, the supporters Like did
you see yourself as the personguiding them through their

(01:14:53):
journey of Christianity?

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Mm-hmm.
I always felt like the voice ofthe young.
I always felt like I was therefor young people, though.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Do you think that that I'm going to press here?
You don't feel like that gaveyou a larger responsibility than
just what you felt?
Yeah, I feel like I carried youa larger responsibility than
what, than just what you felt.
Yeah, I feel I carried theresponsibility really yeah so
when you made a decision fromyou so you recognize, we admit
that you were you felt like youwere their worship pastor.

(01:15:25):
You don't think that then,going to do something I didn't?

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
fight their worship pastor.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
I felt like I was a voice for the young people.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
That's what I'm saying.
I felt like a voice into theirlives, like I was their big
brother.
I was always on Instagram livegoofing off, being honest, like
my fans done heard me say morethan Bad Bunny.
Like, you know what I'm saying.
Like they, if you follow me,you know what I'm saying.
Like, if you follow me, youknow me.
Like, that's just like I'm cool, like and I'm really.
I'm as honest as I can bewithout you know too much.

(01:15:59):
You know what I'm saying and Ifeel like that's always been my
spiel, like Chandler going toget on the internet and preach.
They ain't never heard me dothat.
Like Naomi's a preacher.
They ain't never heard me dothat like Naomi's a preacher.
They ain't never heard me dothat.
That's never been I do.
I do preach because I love theword, I love Jesus.
But I'm saying I I've alwayscarried my brand as an artist,

(01:16:21):
always, even when I signed withBethel.
I'm the first one to not put outa worship record.
Joyful was the first ForrestFrank like, like I'm going.
I mean they was mad at me.
I mean they didn't think itwould be a hit and it was, but
at the time, like it was likewhy are you not doing Champion?
Why can't that be your firstsingle?
And so I just did it with thecollective.

(01:16:43):
But my point is I never boxedinto this like worship pastor to
the nations type of idea.
I always felt like I was just avoice to young people.
I always posted my fashion,what I was wearing.
I mean, even if you go back tothe beginning, like, I met

(01:17:04):
Maverick City and Gucci, like,and so I always was into that
stuff.
I always was into art, likepaintings and stuff like that.
I always been that person inthe group you know what I'm
saying To bring everybodyforward culturally.
I was culturally cooler thaneverybody they churchy for real,
I was never as churchy as theywere.
They would all say that youtaught Norman how to dress.

(01:17:26):
No, norman was after that.
Norman already had his stuff on.
But Norman now he dressed nice.
Norman used to dress like arapper for real.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
Now he dressed real nice.
I always told you he dressedreal nice.
Now I'm a Negro from the South,I'm a country country.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
But what I meant, chandler and the rest of them,
bruh, yeah, it's like I put themon game everybody cool in the
group because I really was likethe person, like hey, tony man,
we got, we got a couple morepink hair on the videos.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
Man tony had pink hair.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
Nah, oh, somebody had pink hair yeah, I want to say
this real quick.
I I was just thinking about eventhe way that he kind of said it
earlier, but I wanted to kindof give it more of a voice the
way that the industry kind ofthere were a select few worship

(01:18:23):
leaders and influential peoplein the worship industry and
space that really kind of tookto you guys and affirmed you
publicly and then it just seemslike they kind of just turned
their backs on you when therewas a little bit of a difference
or maybe even disagreementabout how you guys did certain
things.
And I just don't, I agree withyou and I wanted just to say

(01:18:46):
that back to you when you weretalking earlier about how you
went through some things thatjust were painful trying to feel
like being accepted by peoplewho had gone before you and not
really getting that and alwaysfeeling like you had to try to
prove yourself.
And yeah, I mean, I think thatwas something that I noticed.
Again, I think it goes back tojust what we talked about
earlier with being cultural andsome of those differences.

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
They loved it.
In the beginning I was like ashiny toy because of how I act.
Like this personality got meinto a lot of doors.
Like I remember getting offstage at K-Love and getting
offered a tour from 4 KingCountry, the biggest worship
group in the world, like justlike that.
Like I remember getting offered, like I was getting so many
tours I was the first one toever get offered a real tour on

(01:19:27):
their own $3 million tour tour,like, and it was just because I
was a shiny, like they love thispersonality in that context.
And I think once, once Istarted, you know, with the bad
bunny and the little, once Istarted being too honest and
stuff.
That's when it got really badfor me.

(01:19:49):
But I'm, I'm like, I, I, me,but I want to end with this with
me.
I'm just going to end with this.
I feel like we should have, Ifeel like me.
Chan Nay, aaron Brandon yeah,joel.

Speaker 1 (01:20:07):
Why do you hesitate with Brandon?

Speaker 3 (01:20:09):
Because Brandon's doing what he wants to do, what
he always wanted to do.
What do you mean by that?
He's doing what he alwayswanted to do, and that's do what
he's doing right now.
I'm not even mad that I didn'tperform Gratitude on Doves.
I used to be mad about that,him and Benjamin, and I was a
third rider.
I wasn't even mad about it.
I just feel like these are thepeople that I've absence of him,

(01:20:34):
the rest of the group.
I feel like we could have stucktogether and changed this is
another reason I don't put himin this because I feel like we
could have changed a whole genreif we stuck together.
There would have been a hundredof us.
We could have raised a hundredof us.
We could have raised a hundredof us.
These kids that get trying tobe us don't know what it's like

(01:20:55):
to be close to us.
They're doing it Like we madeeach other great.
Like writing a song with meyou're going to learn how to
write a song.
Like leading worship withChandler you're going to learn
how to lead worship For real.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
It was a bunch like you started.
Everybody starts getting good.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, like everybody, just
starts, like hearing Aaronarrange a record with keys, like
you're going to learn how toplay the Maverick way, like
that's when y'all came up withthe Maverick way.
I'm like, I know the Maverickway, like you know what I'm
saying.
Like, and I feel like these weI hate this.
I hate I'm about to say thisbut us versus them.

(01:21:31):
We would have been like, stoplistening to all these people
telling us what to do.
We fighting against them.
These are our opposers.
We really had some crazywarfare going on, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
I'm saying we would listen to little pockets that
mattered to us Maybe I'm closerto this crew and then maybe
Brandon's closer to this crew.
We would listen to littlepockets that mattered to us,
like maybe I'm closer to thiscrew and then maybe Brandon's
closer to this crew.
So we would all be talking topeople trying to come together.
I wish we would have just satdown and been like y'all.
I wish we had wisdom.
I wish we was praying and wehad wisdom to know like no,
they're trying to tear us apart.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
I told my pastor that .
I told my pastor that I saidman, the one thing I regret is
that we didn't recognize thedevil.
Doesn't take kindly to youputting 10,000 people in an
arena, in a territory.
In a principality we don'twrestle against flesh and blood,
you know what I'm saying.

(01:22:27):
In a principality, lifting upthe name of Jesus, young kids,
18 to 35, all races, colors,creeds, sexual orientations,
they all in there lifting up thename of Jesus and the spiritual
warfare that we were going tocome up against.
I think the one, my biggestregret, you know, we put passes

(01:22:50):
on the road, we did all of thesethings, but the level of
preparation necessary for us tobe ready for those moments, I
just don't think we did the worknecessary to be ready?

Speaker 3 (01:23:02):
Heck, no, bro you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
I just, I really don't think we did the work
necessary to be ready for thosemoments, and that is my biggest
regret.
Like the fast thing, it's notthat we didn't fast, it's not
that we didn't pray, you knowwhat I'm saying, it's that we
needed to be 40 days, 40 nightsguarding the Gethsemane.
Gethsemane I can't evenpronounce it Gethsemane,
gethsemane.
Like we need to be sweatingthick as blood, like his blood,

(01:23:36):
like that's the type of stuff wewas up against and we allow our
um optimism and and negligencealmost to to to lead us to where
we are today.
But the beauty, the beauty isall things work together for the
good of those that love thelord and are called according to
his purpose, you know, I mean.
So.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
That's why you see this book, this, this
reconnection taking place,because it's necessary yeah, and
then everybody just like overit, like I feel, like everybody
that was in the group that knowswhat happened, like I remember,
pulling up to the first date wehad never done a show for real.
We did a juneteenth thing,right, it was like it for

(01:24:11):
multiple worship leaders andstuff.
It wasn't necessarily our show,but we did see a lot of people
come up, but we were fromAtlanta, we built it in Atlanta,
so it wasn't that crazy.
I remember getting to our firstshow Sacramento we had never
toured before and we're like, ohokay, we don't know what's
going to be there, but we'regoing to still give it our best.

(01:24:36):
Like all the stuff we heard itwas sold out, right, it, yeah,
it was sold out, but we heardthere's gonna be a lot of people
there.
We ain't know what was gonnahappen, bro, like it was like
what you would see on a justinbieber documentary.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
I'm so glad that you said like the bands, like boom,
boom, boom boom hitting the band, like like I'm so glad you said
that.
I remember being in that room.
I've traveled all over theworld, I've, you know, like I've
been in rooms.
I have never in my life feltthat much faith in a room.
When we got it was like Iremember sitting on the side of

(01:25:03):
the stage film like, oh man,anything could happen.
So like if you, if someone has,if someone came in here dead,
they would be be raised.
It was that much faith.
I could feel it.
I remember you.
I don't think Tony was there.
I think you were there.
I was there, but it was.
I remember talking after theshow and feeling like I think I

(01:25:26):
said this.
I was like this is unstoppable.

Speaker 3 (01:25:29):
If we ever did it again, it would have to be like
that.
I don't want to do choreo.
I'm glad you said that.
I always say that I want it tobe like that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Just lead and worship baby, but we had to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:25:42):
We had to go to the next little light.
It got so crazy.
And then y'all did the Kirkcollab and it was just getting
crazy and crazy and crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
I mean that was I mean you're talking about.
That's the biggest Christiantour of all time.

Speaker 3 (01:25:52):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
All time Was it Kingdom.
There's never been a tourbigger, wow, never in the
history of Christian music.
The eight of the biggest showsever were on that tour.
The biggest ever was DC.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:26:07):
Some reason.

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
I thought Elevation out towards you, but maybe not.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
You're trying to be funny.
Elevation, they do a good job.
They do well.
They bring Pastor out, theyhave church, but Kingdom was a
little different.

Speaker 3 (01:26:20):
Respectfully, you still the CEO of True Music
Group.
Yeah, I love True man.
They my family.
I have freedom to make what Iwant to make, work with who I
want to work with, and that'ssomething I didn't even get when
I was with my Christian label.

(01:26:41):
It's no shade, but yeah, I likethat.
I get to like decide where Iwant to go.
Like you know, I'm flying towork with Taylor Hill soon.
I've done Jerry Wanda thisrecord.
I've worked with Chaz thisrecord.
I've worked with Kemper thisrecord, brandon Bailey, just

(01:27:04):
whoever I want to.
I'm working with y'all writingsongs for y'all.
They just they chill.
You know what?
Know, I mean, for the most part, they, they just I feel like I
I really needed, uh, help, likebig brother, big sister.
You know I'm saying I feel likethey helped me and I needed
people that didn't need my moneyor my fame.
You know, it wasn't contingentupon that.

(01:27:26):
Like it really is all lovebecause like they don't really
need my, they don't need me tobe to pop off.
You know I'm saying, eventhough that's what we want, it's
different when you work withpeople that don't necessarily
need it.
They're just doing it becausethey think you're a star.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
Yeah, so what would you say was your maverick moment
?

Speaker 3 (01:27:45):
my what moment?

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
your maverick moment.
You know a maverick, you know,you know what a maverick is.
What do you?
What do you think is yourmoment, your breakaway,
independent?

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
unconventional.
I think my maverick moment ofall time was when I dropped a
record with.
When I dropped Champion withBethel and it was like one of
the most popular songs CCLI hadone time.
And then I dropped it's all.

(01:28:19):
The same year I dropped arecord with you guys, maverick.
It was super popular.
My songs were like selling andI was really happy.
My songs were selling.
And in the same year I was likeI want Chandler and Stephanie
Gray singing on Voice of Godone-off.
And then we did the Old ChurchBasement record and when I got
to the Grammys on Doves andStellars I was like dang, I

(01:28:44):
could do it.
I really felt like that was amaverick moment because no one's
ever done that, like nocollective member.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
How many nominations did you have that year seven at
the grammys, seven I remember Iremember and I got a tattoo.

Speaker 3 (01:29:00):
I had three in one category.
It was like dante bow, voice ofgod.
Dante bow, joyful dante bowfeaturing chandler wait on you.
Actually two was me andChandler.
And then they said CeCe andAnthony Brown, and my grandma
looked at me and was like youalready won, you don't need to
worry, you already won.
But that was just with oneyears of work and I feel like

(01:29:21):
that's a maverick, somebody thatdoes it different, that changes
the game and don't go with thestatus quo.
And if I had not ever beenblackballed, I would be one of
the biggest Christian stars.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
You feel like you was blackballed.
Yeah, who blackballed?

Speaker 3 (01:29:36):
you A ton of people, really, yeah, a ton of people
blackballed me.
A ton of people talk about me.
It's good content, like I feellike I gave them good content
and they took it and ran with it.
And then also privately, likehigher-ups, yeah, talking about
me.
Like I said, I was hosting theDubs, like I was doing some

(01:29:58):
crazy stuff, like I was on ahuge tour with 4K country, about
to get off and go on my ownjoyful tour, but at that point,
my reputation was going left.
Not just because of me, though,because just people dogging me,
talking about me privately,thinking it's funny what's
happening to me, includingBrandon, just thinking it's

(01:30:21):
funny to talk about me withpeople and stuff like that, and
so it's all love.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
I want to hit something because you've hit
this point a few times and so,just for clarity's sake, I don't
want someone to watch this andfeel like we were beating.
I mean, we were beating up onsomeone, but this is Mavericks
on the mic and Brandon iswelcome to come and say his
piece whenever he likes.
But what is the sensitivityaround the Brandon thing for you

(01:30:49):
Like?
Just put it on the table.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
Because that's my brother, that's the person I
love the most, that's the personI roomed with.
Gave him wisdom.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
I mean I would even say it this way Like y'all.
I mean y'all were the firstpeople there.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
Yeah, that too.
But also we were friends, likewe were real friends, like we
helped each other become who weare today, writing styles like
Brandon was gonna be on my albumbefore, like he did my album
that I trashed like before hewas even signed.

(01:31:29):
So, like I, I, I guess for me Iwould.
I have some kind of commoditywhen I have commodity when it
comes to branding.
I have respect when it comes tohim, even if I found out
something devastating like orsomething tragic about his
character or whatever.
Like I never talked about himto this day, you know I'm saying

(01:31:52):
, but he was the one person Itext and I said I will never
talk to you again.
And he has to live with hisfirst ever huge song number one
record, gold, probably about togo, platinum record was with me
like right after he did that sowhy won't you ever text him

(01:32:14):
again?

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
I did, I told him that?

Speaker 3 (01:32:19):
why did I tell him that?
Cause I was hurt.
He's my best friend, but whatdid he do?
He pretty much was the oneadvocating to get me out.
The members told me that andyou felt like that it hurt my
feelings.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
he could text me, call me one advocating to get me
out, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:32:34):
The members told me that and you felt like that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
It hurt my feelings.
He could text me call me.

Speaker 3 (01:32:37):
He tried to after the fact.
But you know, I saw him at JenJohnson's dove party and we
talked and it's all love.
It's just that I'm here tellingmy story, yeah, and you're part
of that.
Yeah, We've're part of that.
Yeah, I'm, I'm we forgivingeach other?
You know what I'm trying to say.
Like we've talked since then,we hugged, we like texting, like

(01:32:57):
we DM here and there.
You know what I mean, but Ithink what.

Speaker 2 (01:33:02):
What makes and I'm sorry I'll just.
I think that good and nuancedis that what you guys are
getting the insight into is likewhat real family looks like.
You know, I've worked with myfamily.
My family's fired me before andwe've reconciled.
A year later we came backtogether and I would do anything

(01:33:22):
for them.
But the opportunity to be rawin your emotion in a process
like this allows for people thatmay have existing church hurt,
gone through things in the past,to look at that situation and
say, hey, man, like Dante wasreally hurt by that, you know
what I'm saying and to hear himsay that they're good now maybe

(01:33:44):
I should Be straight yeah youknow what I'm saying.
Maybe I should make a call toso-and-so yeah, because I know
what, I know that and becausewe're going to keep it.
We're going to keep it a buck,with Mavericks on the mic, and
so when this comes out, there'sgoing to be a lot of oh, they
didn't have to say that, theydidn't have to.
It's life.

Speaker 3 (01:34:01):
And it's love now.
Yeah, that's the thing too.
Like it ain, we're pretty muchgiving y'all what the questions
that you were asking back thenthat we all stayed quiet on.
I feel like you're just gettinginsight on the what, when, why,
how.
You know what I mean, and ithas nothing to do with where we
stand Today, today, yeah, rightnow.

(01:34:24):
Like he could come and sitbeside me, I would hug him Like
I miss him, like I miss him, Ilove him.
Like we made history together.
I wrote everybody's biggestsongs, like from Joel to
Chandler Not even reallyChandler, yeah, I did.
But Chandler wrote a bigger one, jyra.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
But everybody else.
Nobody else did, Nobody elsedid.
That's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:34:47):
Chandler did write a bigger one, and I feel like when
you do that with people, youlearn from them, you really get
close to them and you becomebrothers.
You know what I'm saying, andso that's why I was hurt you
know, what I mean.
We wrote a lot of recordstogether and, yeah, hopefully
this interview is heard withgrace too, and respect, because

(01:35:08):
that's all it is right now.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
You know it, man.
You know we're gonna.
That's that's what we do, man.
Listen, we sat down with thegoat man, dante bow, thank you
bro, it's been a, it's been anamazing pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
Man, I think this is probably one of the rawest,
realest yeah conversations yeahit's ever ever been had in the
space I told, told him thisthat's what gave me a voice too,
For sure.
I told you I'd do this, but Ijust want to publicly give you
your flowers, man, and just tellyou that I mean you created a

(01:35:43):
sound that was anointed and ittouched the world and you were
the spearhead of that, andthere's no Maverick City if
there's not Dante Bo, and I justI want to publicly say that so
people can, and I mean we allknow that, but I just want you
to know that, man, I love you,thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
That's what this is all about, man.
Y'all gonna see.
Y'all gonna see a lot more ofthis man, because you know, we
spent the half the day peoplesaying how y'all going to kick
Dante Bo out and then go collabwith Glorilla.

Speaker 3 (01:36:16):
Y'all never had a problem with me talking about
bad money.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
You know it's so much misinformation surrounding who
we are, how decisions were made.
I hope that so much of thisstuff is cleared up and this is
going to open us up.
And I like Glorilla yeah, welove her.
I hope that so much of thisstuff is cleared up and this is
going to open up and I likeGlorilla yeah, we love her.
I love Glorilla.
Her middle name is Hallelujahman.
She's nice, it don't get muchbetter than that.
So listen, this has beenMavericks on the Mic.

(01:36:44):
We had an amazing conversationwith our brother, dante Bo.
Look man Like, share andsubscribe.
This is going to be one of thelegendary pods, so can't wait

(01:37:04):
Signing off, baby.

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