June 10, 2025 • 20 mins
Meet Professor Tze Min Wah, who performed the world’s first non-invasive procedure to destroy kidney tumours using sound waves, and Michael Wright, whose life was changed by it. Discover the science of histotripsy—and the story of a patient who came close to losing a kidney, only to walk away healthy and full of hope.
This podcast was recorded and produced by Under the Mast– creative audio productions and was presented by Caroline Verdon
*
Professor Wah has been appointed at the Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust (LTHT) as Consultant in Diagnostic and Interventional Radiology since 2003 with sub-speciality interest in Interventional Oncology. She is passionate about practising evidence-based medicine and committed to the highest standards of research methodology. Since 2004, she has established, developed and leads an internationally recognised, clinical and research programme in Interventional Oncology (IO).
IO is an underrepresented clinical discipline and Professor Wah was inspired by the stories of patients that she had treated, in 2015, she led the formation of Interventional Oncology United Kingdom (IOUK) within British Society of Interventional Radiology (BSIR) to address this gap and was the founding chair for IOUK(BSIR) from 2015-2018. Subsequently, she led a cross-sectional study highlighting the lack of equity for patients to access IO services in the UK (BMJ open,2017-doi:10.1136/bmjopen-2017-016631).
Her research IO career highlights to date are- Chief Investigator to translate image-guided histotripsy in liver cancer for #Hope4Liver-trial (2021-2023) and featured in NHS-Executive, This innovative cancer treatment is using focused ultrasound technology and the procedure is ‘scalpel-less’, without radiation and offers faster convalescence time for patients.
*
Views and experiences shared in this podcast belong to the individuals and do not constitute medical advice. For medical advice please contact your pharmacist, GP or dial 111. In an emergency please dial 999.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Medical breakthroughs,the research journey.
Hello and welcome.
I'm your host, Caroline Burden,and you are about to join me on
a journey into the fascinatingworld of medical breakthroughs,
but not just any breakthroughs.
We are diving into thepersonal stories, the setbacks.
(00:30):
That you will not believe.
This moment behind the cutting edgeresearch happening right here at
Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust.
Coming up in this episode,
I, I come so close to losing a kidney.
You're going from something that'sincredibly, deeply invasive to
something that's non-invasive.
(00:50):
Whether I weren't actually goingto come into my body at all, it was
difficult to process that somethinghas been removed by sound waves.
I feel so grateful and so.
Okay.
That's Michael who had kidney cancer,and yes, you did hear him correctly.
The cancer was removed fromhis body by sound waves.
No scalpels, no stitches, no staples.
(01:12):
Just an ultrasound.
Now it does sound like something fromscience fiction, but I promise you it's.
Not it is a reality.
We're gonna hear Michael's full story,but first we're gonna speak to Professor
Wa who can explain this research project.
Now she's a consultant in Diagnosticand interventional radiology at
Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust.
She's passionate about practicingevidence-based medicine, and
(01:35):
since 2004, she's established,developed and led an internationally
recognized clinical and researchprogram in interventional oncology.
Most cancers are removed by open surgery,and in fact, the surgeon themselves
have changed the way they practice overthe last couple of decades by making
(01:55):
it more minimally invasive because theyknow that it's better for the patient.
They recover better, they canresume their daily activity and
get better quality of lives.
In fact, smaller tumorthat things found in the.
In fact, more recently,in the last decade, they.
(02:20):
Tumor know that patients have lessinvasive treatment, they get hospital
quicker, patient better, they're happierand some of younger patient can go
back to work and it's better overall.
It's a really win-win situation.
So alongside the surgeon, weare a group of work because
as intervention radiologist.
(02:48):
Minimally invasive treatments.
We are the group of, uh, doctors thatactually trained to put needle into
the body cavity, and then we can accesstumor from anywhere so long it can be
seen on the scan, and then we can put aneedle in the tumor and we can use heat.
(03:08):
Energy to are minimally invasively.
So in the last decade, this clinicaldiscipline has now been known
as interventional oncology andis considered as one four pillar
alongside surgery, medical, and.
(03:30):
And so we have been doing this for over 20years now, and because we have been very
well known, not just locally, nationally,internationally, for this particular
technology, which is a ultrasound basethat become available, we'll ask to take
part in the research in Liver First, whichis just this technology is noninvasive.
(03:53):
Actually safer than other conventionalheat, ice technology because it doesn't
damage any structure close to the cancer.
And it allowed treatment to be deliveredwithout really needing to cut through the
skin, not even in a certain tumor, and ifthere's no radiation associated with it.
So you can think of it.
This treatment is very similar toradiotherapy without the radiation.
(04:17):
However, currently the treatment doesrequire patient to have anesthesia.
Um, that may change thefuture, but for now, all the
patients do require anesthesia.
Very similar, our procedure, apartfrom the fact that you don't have to
put needle into the tumor, and theinteresting thing for us is whenever
we offer this treatment to patient.
(04:45):
Couldn't.
How come they have their treatment forthe cancer without actually having scan?
There's no needle, nothing.
And then because of experience, we werethen subsequently after the trial being
awarded to do the the kidney cancer trial.
So we then became the first.
In the world to actually lead thefirst trial to, to treat kidney cancer.
(05:09):
So we completed the triallast year in December.
So the trial is now closed, butwe're still collecting data for
follow up, and then we're hoping topresent the data in September one
conference, uh, in and, and present.
Well,
and how did you, um, selectpatients for the trial?
(05:30):
How did.
So for all the patient that, uh,we, we usually review cases in what
we call the multidisciplinary teammeeting in our cancer, uh, for, for
the kidney or be kidney cancer, mdt,and all the pictures review and if the
patients are suitable for what we call.
(05:52):
Ablation, which is putting needlein and suitable to, uh, treat
this with either the ice energy,we'll see them in our clinic.
That is our standards of clinical care.
When they come to clinic, we'llassess them and see that whether
they're suitable for the trial.
So in order to be suitablewith trial, uh, the trial.
(06:21):
And
technology, an ultrasound technology.
The ultrasound.
Technology we use to scan our pregnantpatients to see the baby scan and
that the kind of technology we use.
And then we scan the patient checkthat we can see the kidney tumor.
(06:42):
Maybe we can see it because not allthe tumor are really well seen, the
ultrasound, but we can see then wecan actually potentially offer patient
treatment and then we have to check.
Uh, things that the patienthas certain level of the kidney
function, kidney be working well.
The patient has to haveno kidney infection.
And then to, we'll do various blood teststo make sure all the blood tests and okay.
(07:06):
And we do another scan before thetreatment to make sure that the
cancer is still three centimeter, not.
A new technology and we don't havelong term follow up, so we don't
know how well patient's gonna do.
(07:27):
But that's an interesting thing.
All the patient that we approach havesaid yes, and some of them actually have
to be away because they're not suitable.
They're, they're very, very disappointed.
And those that havebeen offered really, um.
I'd be happy to be involved in thetrial, which is very interesting from
my perspective as a clinician, becauseI have to tell patient, honestly, I
(07:50):
don't really know what the long termresult will be because this is new.
We're the global first.
We don't really know the longterm outcome, which I cannot
promise patient that I, I'm now.
So that's the part I.
(08:10):
Uh, so trusting in us, you know, todo all the right thing for them, and
they really wanted to help science and.
So what does the actualprocedure look like?
Kidney tumor.
We need to use a water bath becauseultrasound, normally when we do
(08:32):
a baby, put jelly on so we don't.
Transmit the sound.
So the newer version, the firstgeneration, the water is indirect
contact the skin in the liver trial.
But in the kidney trial, the secondcore patient address this new
system that it has special membrane.
(08:54):
And with the water bath is thenyou have it, uh, over the patient.
You fill the water bar and thenyou scanning with the scanning
pro to check where the tumor is.
Then you drop the treatment head ontouh, where the position is gonna be.
And then once you can seewhere a tumor is, you target,
(09:17):
it's almost like playing game.
To provide good at this, you actuallyjust move the target onto your tumor
target, actually on the, once youget onto tumor and then you check.
Make sure you, you actuallytargeting tumor and, um, you
can then start the treatment.
(09:38):
The whole treatment automated.
So the treatments involvinga very short, high pressure
focus, like ultrasound bubble.
They actually precisely treating thetumor and during treatments automated.
So the count tends to start at the bottom.
The tumor tumor and it circulateoutwards and then it circulate to the
(10:00):
top and then it cover the whole tumor.
And once you start the software andthe, the therapy system will just
circulate through to cover whole tumor.
And what's the recoverytime like for the patients?
Most of our patients actually, uh, go homethe next day, so they have a treatment.
(10:24):
I remember when I did my first liver,I the, I said to patient, please can
have, look at your, and then she at meThere no wound though, you know, so yeah.
You don't even see anything apart.
We a window or the, wecan put a above you.
Yeah, no, whatsoever.
When you do go home,some patients say, don't.
(10:51):
Anything to me.
And in fact, when my research was tellingme, um, yesterday, she said some, one
of the things that we're just trying tomaybe understand better, because some
patients still couldn't quite process,how can they have the tumor treated
without actually having any cuts?
You can't even prove it to other people.
You something done.
(11:12):
Yeah.
At all externally.
And I suppose you can feel life fraud.
You know, people may not
believe that.
Well, it must be so strange becauseobviously you could never see your
tumor in the first place, and then youalso can't see when it's been treated.
That must be a really strange mentalpositioning to get yourself into, to
(11:35):
understand that and comprehend it.
That's why I think there are acouple patients that my research
say maybe it's this area we haveto understand or research is some
patients find really difficult process.
You know, the whole, whole situation.
It felt so surreal that it's almostnot real that we're entering this era.
(11:57):
You know?
I never thought that the day Igonna medical school and one day
I'll be doing what I'm doing.
Even the putting needle in and be is.
It's really quite, it'svery amazing already.
It's like, you know, it really transformedthe way we deliver cancer care.
So the fact that we now, we don'teven have to have needle going in.
(12:18):
We are actually doing, youknow, this, it's non-invasive.
It's almost like it's a scalpel.
It's aless surgery.
Well, we're in the.
It exciting.
I feel really privileged to have theopportunity to be part of this research
and, you know, to after my using thisinnovative technology that I never one my
(12:43):
career, I will be able to see this happen.
It really is mind blowing when you hearabout it in theory, but as we said, this
isn't just a theory, this is a reality,so it's time to properly meet Michael.
He was diagnosed with kidney cancerand initially told his only option
was to have his kidney removed.
So there he was in his gown, nilby mouth, ready to go down to the
(13:06):
operating theater when he was told hedid actually have some other options.
One of which turned out to bebecoming a patient of professor was
I, I'd come so close to losing a kidney.
You're going from something that'sincredibly, deeply invasive to
something that's non-invasive.
(13:27):
It was difficult to processhow close I had caught to how
far away I was going from it.
Whether weren't actually gonna cutinto my body at all, you almost
felt like divine intervention, itdoes affect all parts of your mind.
You, you feel so blessed and lucky.
Really, I've used that term a lot,um, over the last few months, like
(13:49):
how lucky I've been in, in that term.
Normally moving away from moving thekidney, but that the size of fell
within the parameters of the sizes.
The parameters of size are quitespecific, and I felt right in
between those, those parameters.
(14:11):
So I, again, I felt so lucky about it,so blessed with it, really on the day
itself, I was like, I can't explain this.
Actually, I was so relaxed.
It may sound bizarre to gobefore that kind of experimental.
The trial therapy, but I, I didactually feel very, very relaxed.
(14:36):
The whole atmosphere of it felt right andI actually took myself to the hospital.
I walked all the way through the hospital.
I walked down to the surgerysouth, into the pre-operation
area, sat onto the trolley myself.
I felt totally confident.
(14:57):
For just short of four hoursand then it came round.
It's all been completed and thenext thing I'm being wheeled
back to the ward and that's it.
You, at that point I was told that theywere confident that they got rid of the
next morning I went down to have, I.
(15:23):
Showed them showed that showedthere were no signs of the tumor
that they gone, he said with actualsting really's so far in advance.
I spoke to people since and toldthem about the procedure and
then they find it hard to digest.
Same as I did when, when Ifirst read about him, when
I first ever, um, which was
(15:44):
the biggest discomfort Ihad after the process was
getting, moving again, passing.
Because regardless of which wayyou look at it, these sound bites
have blasted it into your kidney,and so there's an ablation.
The side, which is on mine was quitelarge, and so at that point then
(16:08):
the kidney's trying to heal itselfand pass all the ablative material.
So that.
If I'd have had my kidney remove howmuch time I would've been outta action
(16:32):
shall say, you know, could have been,I was told it would've been weeks,
maybe months before I could go backto living a normal lifestyle again.
As with I had this process, Iwent in for the, uh, the process
at midday on the Thursday and.
(16:55):
Sunday morning, I wasout walking the dock.
Within two weeks I was back inside the gymdoing mild stuff while, while training.
I've not con convinced stufffully processed it yet.
Each time I go for anMRI scan and disabled.
There's nothing there.
There's nothing there.
There's nothing there.
It's, it's just difficult toprocess actually, even though I.
(17:23):
Professor and the process itself andthe team, it, it's very difficult,
the process that something hasbeen removed by sound waves.
I feel so grateful and so, okay,that I've gone through this process
(17:43):
and I've been accepted into it,and at this point it seems to have
been a hundred percent success.
Kidney and kidney cancers, kidney.
And I said, well, if this happenedto been found by through screening
or whichever, what would've happened?
I asked them, I said, what would, andthey said, well, this is one of the most
(18:07):
dangerous thing about kidney cancersis you don't actually feel anything.
You don't feel any pain.
You don't.
You either feel the lump becauseit moves somewhere else, the moves
somewhere else, and then that'swhere you know that it's there.
(18:27):
But by that time, too late, I probablywouldn't have even realized for maybe four
years that I actually had it, and thatby that time it would've been too late.
And the fact that I had thisprocess and accepting to.
I was in the hospital within two weeks,and then within hours this tumor's gone.
(18:57):
It's, it's miraculous.
It's science, but it's miraculousand I, I, I feel so, so grateful.
I can't underestimate, professorWise, I can understate it.
This is a level changer.
Professor and her team justseemed to be like, it's a
(19:20):
different level to anything else.
I, I've never experiencedanything like this within the nhs.
When people say the NHS is in troubleand this, that other, I, I, I haven't
seen that at all, to be honest.
You know that the team that shehas under her are so, so good.
So efficient, so professional.
That seemed to be on a differentlevel than anything else that I've
(19:42):
ever experienced within the NHS, it'sexchanged my outlook on the NAHS.
Definitely I, if this is the wayforward, then would a in a good place.
And I think that if this isthe future for treating tumors.
Then this is a big, big leap forward
and you can find out more aboutthe treatments in our show notes
coming up on our next episode.
(20:04):
It's Susan's experience of not knowing shehad a cancer, finding it early, finding
two, in fact, taking them out, and thenshe's over five years now since her
operation, we would class that as a cure.
That is exactly why wedo the screening program.
The day I came out of hospitaland my grandson was born.
I've seen him get to nearly 6-year-oldnow and another little grandson, so
(20:26):
maybe wouldn't have seen the second one,
and that there is the bottomline of these research projects.
They really are saving lives.
You can find out more from consultantrespiratory physician Professor
Matt Callister, as well as our leadnurse for research and innovation.
Suzanne Rogerson.
In our next episode, alongsidepatient Susan Medical Breakthroughs,
(20:46):
the research journey is anunder the mask audio production.
Medical breakthroughs,the research journey.
Hello and welcome.
I'm your host, Caroline Burden,and you are about to join me on
a journey into the fascinatingworld of medical breakthroughs,
but not just any breakthroughs.
We are diving into thepersonal stories, the setbacks.
(00:30):
That you will not believe.
This moment behind the cutting edgeresearch happening right here at
Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust.
Coming up in this episode,
I, I come so close to losing a kidney.
You're going from something that'sincredibly, deeply invasive to
something that's non-invasive.
(00:50):
Whether I weren't actually goingto come into my body at all, it was
difficult to process that somethinghas been removed by sound waves.
I feel so grateful and so.
Okay.
That's Michael who had kidney cancer,and yes, you did hear him correctly.
The cancer was removed fromhis body by sound waves.
No scalpels, no stitches, no staples.
(01:12):
Just an ultrasound.
Now it does sound like something fromscience fiction, but I promise you it's.
Not it is a reality.
We're gonna hear Michael's full story,but first we're gonna speak to Professor
Wa who can explain this research project.
Now she's a consultant in Diagnosticand interventional radiology at
Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust.
She's passionate about practicingevidence-based medicine, and
(01:35):
since 2004, she's established,developed and led an internationally
recognized clinical and researchprogram in interventional oncology.
Most cancers are removed by open surgery,and in fact, the surgeon themselves
have changed the way they practice overthe last couple of decades by making
(01:55):
it more minimally invasive because theyknow that it's better for the patient.
They recover better, they canresume their daily activity and
get better quality of lives.
In fact, smaller tumorthat things found in the.
In fact, more recently,in the last decade, they.
(02:20):
Tumor know that patients have lessinvasive treatment, they get hospital
quicker, patient better, they're happierand some of younger patient can go
back to work and it's better overall.
It's a really win-win situation.
So alongside the surgeon, weare a group of work because
as intervention radiologist.
(02:48):
Minimally invasive treatments.
We are the group of, uh, doctors thatactually trained to put needle into
the body cavity, and then we can accesstumor from anywhere so long it can be
seen on the scan, and then we can put aneedle in the tumor and we can use heat.
(03:08):
Energy to are minimally invasively.
So in the last decade, this clinicaldiscipline has now been known
as interventional oncology andis considered as one four pillar
alongside surgery, medical, and.
(03:30):
And so we have been doing this for over 20years now, and because we have been very
well known, not just locally, nationally,internationally, for this particular
technology, which is a ultrasound basethat become available, we'll ask to take
part in the research in Liver First, whichis just this technology is noninvasive.
(03:53):
Actually safer than other conventionalheat, ice technology because it doesn't
damage any structure close to the cancer.
And it allowed treatment to be deliveredwithout really needing to cut through the
skin, not even in a certain tumor, and ifthere's no radiation associated with it.
So you can think of it.
This treatment is very similar toradiotherapy without the radiation.
(04:17):
However, currently the treatment doesrequire patient to have anesthesia.
Um, that may change thefuture, but for now, all the
patients do require anesthesia.
Very similar, our procedure, apartfrom the fact that you don't have to
put needle into the tumor, and theinteresting thing for us is whenever
we offer this treatment to patient.
(04:45):
Couldn't.
How come they have their treatment forthe cancer without actually having scan?
There's no needle, nothing.
And then because of experience, we werethen subsequently after the trial being
awarded to do the the kidney cancer trial.
So we then became the first.
In the world to actually lead thefirst trial to, to treat kidney cancer.
(05:09):
So we completed the triallast year in December.
So the trial is now closed, butwe're still collecting data for
follow up, and then we're hoping topresent the data in September one
conference, uh, in and, and present.
Well,
and how did you, um, selectpatients for the trial?
(05:30):
How did.
So for all the patient that, uh,we, we usually review cases in what
we call the multidisciplinary teammeeting in our cancer, uh, for, for
the kidney or be kidney cancer, mdt,and all the pictures review and if the
patients are suitable for what we call.
(05:52):
Ablation, which is putting needlein and suitable to, uh, treat
this with either the ice energy,we'll see them in our clinic.
That is our standards of clinical care.
When they come to clinic, we'llassess them and see that whether
they're suitable for the trial.
So in order to be suitablewith trial, uh, the trial.
(06:21):
And
technology, an ultrasound technology.
The ultrasound.
Technology we use to scan our pregnantpatients to see the baby scan and
that the kind of technology we use.
And then we scan the patient checkthat we can see the kidney tumor.
(06:42):
Maybe we can see it because not allthe tumor are really well seen, the
ultrasound, but we can see then wecan actually potentially offer patient
treatment and then we have to check.
Uh, things that the patienthas certain level of the kidney
function, kidney be working well.
The patient has to haveno kidney infection.
And then to, we'll do various blood teststo make sure all the blood tests and okay.
(07:06):
And we do another scan before thetreatment to make sure that the
cancer is still three centimeter, not.
A new technology and we don't havelong term follow up, so we don't
know how well patient's gonna do.
(07:27):
But that's an interesting thing.
All the patient that we approach havesaid yes, and some of them actually have
to be away because they're not suitable.
They're, they're very, very disappointed.
And those that havebeen offered really, um.
I'd be happy to be involved in thetrial, which is very interesting from
my perspective as a clinician, becauseI have to tell patient, honestly, I
(07:50):
don't really know what the long termresult will be because this is new.
We're the global first.
We don't really know the longterm outcome, which I cannot
promise patient that I, I'm now.
So that's the part I.
(08:10):
Uh, so trusting in us, you know, todo all the right thing for them, and
they really wanted to help science and.
So what does the actualprocedure look like?
Kidney tumor.
We need to use a water bath becauseultrasound, normally when we do
(08:32):
a baby, put jelly on so we don't.
Transmit the sound.
So the newer version, the firstgeneration, the water is indirect
contact the skin in the liver trial.
But in the kidney trial, the secondcore patient address this new
system that it has special membrane.
(08:54):
And with the water bath is thenyou have it, uh, over the patient.
You fill the water bar and thenyou scanning with the scanning
pro to check where the tumor is.
Then you drop the treatment head ontouh, where the position is gonna be.
And then once you can seewhere a tumor is, you target,
(09:17):
it's almost like playing game.
To provide good at this, you actuallyjust move the target onto your tumor
target, actually on the, once youget onto tumor and then you check.
Make sure you, you actuallytargeting tumor and, um, you
can then start the treatment.
(09:38):
The whole treatment automated.
So the treatments involvinga very short, high pressure
focus, like ultrasound bubble.
They actually precisely treating thetumor and during treatments automated.
So the count tends to start at the bottom.
The tumor tumor and it circulateoutwards and then it circulate to the
(10:00):
top and then it cover the whole tumor.
And once you start the software andthe, the therapy system will just
circulate through to cover whole tumor.
And what's the recoverytime like for the patients?
Most of our patients actually, uh, go homethe next day, so they have a treatment.
(10:24):
I remember when I did my first liver,I the, I said to patient, please can
have, look at your, and then she at meThere no wound though, you know, so yeah.
You don't even see anything apart.
We a window or the, wecan put a above you.
Yeah, no, whatsoever.
When you do go home,some patients say, don't.
(10:51):
Anything to me.
And in fact, when my research was tellingme, um, yesterday, she said some, one
of the things that we're just trying tomaybe understand better, because some
patients still couldn't quite process,how can they have the tumor treated
without actually having any cuts?
You can't even prove it to other people.
You something done.
(11:12):
Yeah.
At all externally.
And I suppose you can feel life fraud.
You know, people may not
believe that.
Well, it must be so strange becauseobviously you could never see your
tumor in the first place, and then youalso can't see when it's been treated.
That must be a really strange mentalpositioning to get yourself into, to
(11:35):
understand that and comprehend it.
That's why I think there are acouple patients that my research
say maybe it's this area we haveto understand or research is some
patients find really difficult process.
You know, the whole, whole situation.
It felt so surreal that it's almostnot real that we're entering this era.
(11:57):
You know?
I never thought that the day Igonna medical school and one day
I'll be doing what I'm doing.
Even the putting needle in and be is.
It's really quite, it'svery amazing already.
It's like, you know, it really transformedthe way we deliver cancer care.
So the fact that we now, we don'teven have to have needle going in.
(12:18):
We are actually doing, youknow, this, it's non-invasive.
It's almost like it's a scalpel.
It's aless surgery.
Well, we're in the.
It exciting.
I feel really privileged to have theopportunity to be part of this research
and, you know, to after my using thisinnovative technology that I never one my
(12:43):
career, I will be able to see this happen.
It really is mind blowing when you hearabout it in theory, but as we said, this
isn't just a theory, this is a reality,so it's time to properly meet Michael.
He was diagnosed with kidney cancerand initially told his only option
was to have his kidney removed.
So there he was in his gown, nilby mouth, ready to go down to the
(13:06):
operating theater when he was told hedid actually have some other options.
One of which turned out to bebecoming a patient of professor was
I, I'd come so close to losing a kidney.
You're going from something that'sincredibly, deeply invasive to
something that's non-invasive.
(13:27):
It was difficult to processhow close I had caught to how
far away I was going from it.
Whether weren't actually gonna cutinto my body at all, you almost
felt like divine intervention, itdoes affect all parts of your mind.
You, you feel so blessed and lucky.
Really, I've used that term a lot,um, over the last few months, like
(13:49):
how lucky I've been in, in that term.
Normally moving away from moving thekidney, but that the size of fell
within the parameters of the sizes.
The parameters of size are quitespecific, and I felt right in
between those, those parameters.
(14:11):
So I, again, I felt so lucky about it,so blessed with it, really on the day
itself, I was like, I can't explain this.
Actually, I was so relaxed.
It may sound bizarre to gobefore that kind of experimental.
The trial therapy, but I, I didactually feel very, very relaxed.
(14:36):
The whole atmosphere of it felt right andI actually took myself to the hospital.
I walked all the way through the hospital.
I walked down to the surgerysouth, into the pre-operation
area, sat onto the trolley myself.
I felt totally confident.
(14:57):
For just short of four hoursand then it came round.
It's all been completed and thenext thing I'm being wheeled
back to the ward and that's it.
You, at that point I was told that theywere confident that they got rid of the
next morning I went down to have, I.
(15:23):
Showed them showed that showedthere were no signs of the tumor
that they gone, he said with actualsting really's so far in advance.
I spoke to people since and toldthem about the procedure and
then they find it hard to digest.
Same as I did when, when Ifirst read about him, when
I first ever, um, which was
(15:44):
the biggest discomfort Ihad after the process was
getting, moving again, passing.
Because regardless of which wayyou look at it, these sound bites
have blasted it into your kidney,and so there's an ablation.
The side, which is on mine was quitelarge, and so at that point then
(16:08):
the kidney's trying to heal itselfand pass all the ablative material.
So that.
If I'd have had my kidney remove howmuch time I would've been outta action
(16:32):
shall say, you know, could have been,I was told it would've been weeks,
maybe months before I could go backto living a normal lifestyle again.
As with I had this process, Iwent in for the, uh, the process
at midday on the Thursday and.
(16:55):
Sunday morning, I wasout walking the dock.
Within two weeks I was back inside the gymdoing mild stuff while, while training.
I've not con convinced stufffully processed it yet.
Each time I go for anMRI scan and disabled.
There's nothing there.
There's nothing there.
There's nothing there.
It's, it's just difficult toprocess actually, even though I.
(17:23):
Professor and the process itself andthe team, it, it's very difficult,
the process that something hasbeen removed by sound waves.
I feel so grateful and so, okay,that I've gone through this process
(17:43):
and I've been accepted into it,and at this point it seems to have
been a hundred percent success.
Kidney and kidney cancers, kidney.
And I said, well, if this happenedto been found by through screening
or whichever, what would've happened?
I asked them, I said, what would, andthey said, well, this is one of the most
(18:07):
dangerous thing about kidney cancersis you don't actually feel anything.
You don't feel any pain.
You don't.
You either feel the lump becauseit moves somewhere else, the moves
somewhere else, and then that'swhere you know that it's there.
(18:27):
But by that time, too late, I probablywouldn't have even realized for maybe four
years that I actually had it, and thatby that time it would've been too late.
And the fact that I had thisprocess and accepting to.
I was in the hospital within two weeks,and then within hours this tumor's gone.
(18:57):
It's, it's miraculous.
It's science, but it's miraculousand I, I, I feel so, so grateful.
I can't underestimate, professorWise, I can understate it.
This is a level changer.
Professor and her team justseemed to be like, it's a
(19:20):
different level to anything else.
I, I've never experiencedanything like this within the nhs.
When people say the NHS is in troubleand this, that other, I, I, I haven't
seen that at all, to be honest.
You know that the team that shehas under her are so, so good.
So efficient, so professional.
That seemed to be on a differentlevel than anything else that I've
(19:42):
ever experienced within the NHS, it'sexchanged my outlook on the NAHS.
Definitely I, if this is the wayforward, then would a in a good place.
And I think that if this isthe future for treating tumors.
Then this is a big, big leap forward
and you can find out more aboutthe treatments in our show notes
coming up on our next episode.
(20:04):
It's Susan's experience of not knowing shehad a cancer, finding it early, finding
two, in fact, taking them out, and thenshe's over five years now since her
operation, we would class that as a cure.
That is exactly why wedo the screening program.
The day I came out of hospitaland my grandson was born.
I've seen him get to nearly 6-year-oldnow and another little grandson, so
(20:26):
maybe wouldn't have seen the second one,
and that there is the bottomline of these research projects.
They really are saving lives.
You can find out more from consultantrespiratory physician Professor
Matt Callister, as well as our leadnurse for research and innovation.
Suzanne Rogerson.
In our next episode, alongsidepatient Susan Medical Breakthroughs,
(20:46):
the research journey is anunder the mask audio production.
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