Episode 2

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
What's up, brother?

SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
Hey man, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Good, dude.
How was the week?

SPEAKER_04 (00:03):
You know, it was uh it was a tough week overall,
which is fine.
You have those, but I had itsuch a great weekend.
First of all, I got to see MannyPacquiao fight, and honestly, he
got robbed.
I think he should have won.
But and then yesterday, uh wecelebrated my son's baptism.

SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Hell yeah, I saw that on Facebook, dude.
That's awesome.
Yeah, do you saw the fight inperson or just on no no no just
on TV.

SPEAKER_04 (00:24):
But I have been to a Pacquiao fight.
I would have loved to be able togo and see it, but I'm sure
tickets were like for nosebleedslike 800 bucks.

SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Oh yeah, bro.
I saw it on uh Prime Video, itwas like 79 bucks or something.
I was gonna get it, but Idecided to watch that the new
karate kid movie.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (00:42):
We already talked about that a little bit offline.
So too funny.

SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
Well, right on, dude.
Well, last time, man, I kind ofran through my story, and I
think we talked about raisingkids in a little bit today, but
I kind of wanted to see if youwanted to jump in with your
story and what you went throughand and how you got out of it or
how as much as you want to,dude, and go from there.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02):
You know, it's always um I always try to figure
a good starting point, right?
And I heard this on uh from aguest on a on a like podcast I
used to run, and he said, Ididn't know that rock bottom had
an ocean floor.
And for me, like I I kind of seethings visibly, right?

(01:25):
And so to hear that I resonatewith that so much because just
to get back to normal C, just toget back to what most people
struggle with, like, and again,it's not a comparison game, but
for me, to be able to get tothat was such a blessing, and so
you know, I tell people all thetime that I went from unpurposed

(01:48):
to unfinished, and so I rememberthis was after my second attempt
uh at suicide, and it's such alow feeling when you don't
complete the one thing that youthought was going to fix
everything, sure, and so Iremember sitting there like
beyond low.

(02:08):
I was like, man, I couldn't evendo this right.
And I remember I think I hadtaken like 30 or 40 Advil or
Tylenol or something like that,and I woke up three days later
in the hospital.
Um, and so I remember waking up.

(02:29):
Uh, I do remember parts wherethey're like pumping my stomach,
you know, throwing up, but itwas just fragments.
And I remember laying there justfeeling so low, and the doctors
would come in, the nurses wouldcome in, you know, they're like,
you gotta get up, you gotta gopee, and all this stuff, and I
just didn't want to do anything.
And I remember I think it wasthe fourth day.

(02:53):
Um, by the way, like when you gothrough that stuff, they
restrain you because they don'twant you to go, and and they're
trying to check you into youknow uh psych and rehab and all
that stuff.
But I remember sitting there andI was like, why?
Why couldn't I finish this?
And it was kind of like in thatmoment that I remember that I

(03:15):
heard like God's voice where hejust said, I'm not done with you
yet.
And while most people use thatas kind of like a refresher,
right?
And it was kind of like thiswhole spirit pouring over you,
like, oh, you know, thisovercoming sensation.
For a brief moment, I got reallymad because I was like,

(03:36):
everything else I've gonethrough has not been great.
What else is in store?
Right.
And of course, like I said that,and there was like almost like
some immediate regret, and Istarted thinking of like all the
stories, you know, of the Biblethat I grew up with, you know.
But specifically, it was likeSaul turned Paul, and you know,
that moment when he'spersecuting, killing all these

(03:57):
Christians, and then he turnsaround, he's blinded for three
days, and then all of a suddenhe's like, you know, he's a
changed person.
And so I wouldn't say likeovernight that I was changed,
but you know, I rememberspecifically being like really
angry, thinking like, what elsedo you have in store for me?
Almost kind of like it can't getworse, like, or maybe it can,
and you're gonna make it worsefor me.
So it was almost like blaming,you know, God in that moment.

(04:20):
But you know, after kind ofgoing through, you know, the
psychaval and all this stuff,you know, I just I just
basically played dumb.
Like, oh, I don't remember whathappened.
I just knew that I took someTylenol, I was really tired, I
was really, you know, whatever.
And they're like, you had somuch in there, like, how did
this happen?
I just kept playing dumb, right?
And not answering all thequestions.
And how old were you?

(04:42):
Um 20 at this point, 23 yearsold.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so I was going through allthis, and I was just checking
off the boxes, right?
And I remember I got home, andyou'd know this.
We talked about this last time.
Being alone with yourself is theworst, right?

(05:03):
Your mind plays tricks on you,you run through the worst case
scenarios.
And again, this is the secondattempt I had, right?
The first time I tried to cutmyself, and actually it hurt.
So to go through a second time,I was like, well, maybe I'll
just, you know, this will put meuh away in my sleep or whatever.
And so, first of all, this islike one of the worst ways that

(05:25):
you can go because it messes upyour kidneys.
And so like I'm always worriedthat you know that one incident
may come back to haunt me oneday.

SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
Sure.

SPEAKER_04 (05:34):
But as I I look back, I remember just sitting
there alone late at night.
I think it was like 2 30 in themorning or something like that.
And I used to go take thesewalks.
Um, and I remember I went for awalk, and it was kind of rainy,
and out of nowhere, it's likethis lightning strike hit.

(05:55):
It was no thunder, but it wasvery, very visible for me for
that lightning.
And then I kind of turned aroundbecause I was like, Oh, I'm
gonna head back to uh head backhome.
Another lightning struck thatside, complete opposite sides,
and I was like, oh man, it'slike storms getting ready to
come down really, really bad.
No rain in every direction thatI was walking, every turn, a

(06:19):
lightning struck.
And then by the time that I gotinto my house, then I started
hearing all the thunder.
So I went to the the deck uh ofthe house that I was renting at
that point in time.
As soon as I went out there, thethe lightning struck again, and
then I finally heard this loudthunder.
And I basically just startedcrying my eyes out, man.

(06:41):
And I was like, What do you wantfrom me?
Right?
I was basically pleading.
I was like, okay, you've got myattention.
Like, what do you want?
And he said, I told you I'm notdone with you.
And so, like, I'm crying, andyou know, like how you catch
yourself sometimes in themirror, like that ugly cry, and
you just realize how ugly you'recapable of being.
Like, first you're like, Man, Ididn't think I could be even
uglier than what I am right now.

(07:02):
So I caught myself, right?
Because I went to go wash myface, and then you know, you do
one of those things, and I thinkDane Cook brought it up like
years ago.
He's like, You're crying, andyou're just kind of staring at
yourself, and you can't stopcrying, but you can't stop
staring at yourself as one ofthose moments, right?
But I remember like washing myface, trying not to like cry
anymore, seeing like all of thisjust mess.

(07:25):
And then he basically said,You're meant for more.
And that like really hurt mebecause I realized then that
maybe there was a purpose,right?
And again, I'd been talkingthinking about again, Saul
turned Paul, right?
How Noah um or I'm sorry, Mosesrejected, you know, his calling,

(07:48):
you know, all these things, andI started thinking about that,
and he said, He said, I had tobring you through this hardship
for you to realize that I'vebeen calling you and you haven't
been listening.
And it killed me for a momentthat one I would first question,
right, in that moment when I wasreally angry.
And then for me to basicallyliterally walk in every single

(08:10):
direction and for him to throwthat lightning, you know,
whatever, to basically say,like, I'm trying to get your
attention, and then finally,just like that one, it like
literally scared the shit out ofme, but then it brought me to my
knees, you know, and it was thecraziest thing.
And so ever since then, itdoesn't happen like all the
time, but there have beenpivotal moments in my life when

(08:33):
I need to make a decision, whenum I'm really lost, and I would
drive down Powers Corridor, andthis lightning would chase me,
basically saying I'm here, andit's the weirdest thing because
it's only happened probablyabout four or five times in my
entire life.
And but every major decisionthat I've had, basically, when

(08:53):
I'm driving down PowersCorridor, that lightning is
hitting, and there's no rain togo with it.
It's the craziest thing.

SPEAKER_01 (08:59):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 (09:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
What uh what was going through your mind when you
took those pills?
Do you remember?

SPEAKER_04 (09:09):
Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of things,
right?
You it's weird because somepeople just do it, some people
just go for it, they don't thinkabout it.
Um, because like you said, likewe said, the worst thing is when
you think too much.
And so when you start thinkingtoo much, I started
pre-planning.
I was like, I'm gonna write someletters.

(09:30):
Uh, because in my mind, I'mlike, well, it's gonna be a
while, so whoever finds it,they're gonna reach out to my
dad, they're gonna reach out tothis, they're gonna go through
my friends list, somebody'sgonna find out, and then like
I'll leave a little will so thatway certain things go to certain
people, so that way they can youknow, but you're not thinking of
like the hurt that you're gonnacause anybody, right?
You're just thinking of whatyou're going through and how

(09:50):
that's going to end, but youdon't think about like the
impact that it's going to have.
So I think in that moment when Iswallowed all those things, that
the idea was like it would justit would just end.
I wouldn't have to worry, Iwouldn't wake up, and um, you
know, like I just I guess hopedthat it would be over.

SPEAKER_01 (10:14):
What did you think would happen afterwards?

SPEAKER_04 (10:18):
Like when I woke up?

SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
No, like if you were to if you were to successfully
commit suicide, what what wouldwhat was gonna happen after?

SPEAKER_04 (10:24):
You know, I I thought that a couple people
would mourn me, a couple peoplewould basically be like, Man,
this sucks, you know, this isyou know, somebody that I care
for.
And I guess it's weird becauselike you hold on to this hope
and idea that you've made impacton people.

SPEAKER_00 (10:37):
Sure.

SPEAKER_04 (10:38):
And it's weird because you're like, I'm
literally the problem, but Ihope that somebody, at least one
person, would care.
And so you start to think ofeven people that you haven't
talked to in years, and you'relike, Oh, that's funny.
I remember this moment, youknow, this memory that we
create.
I wonder if they ever thinkabout that.
And then you're like, Well, it'snot enough.

SPEAKER_01 (10:54):
Yeah.
Were you were you like spiritualyet?
What did you have?
I mean, obviously, because youhad an encounter with God, but
like spiritually, what what didyou think the outcome was gonna
be on the other side?

SPEAKER_04 (11:09):
I was scared shitless, man.
Like the idea of and it and Idon't know if I was so scared at
that point, like, you know,because I grew up in the church
and you know, in this belief,you know, of heaven and hell,
but it also got to the pointwhere I'm like, I'm already in
hell.

SPEAKER_00 (11:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (11:27):
So if I go and and I have to deal with eternal pain,
like I already feel like I'mgoing through eternal pain.
And obviously it's not the same,but at the same time, like this
this hurt, this heart that can'tbe mended, you know, like what
is wrong with me, the peoplethat I'm around, everybody's
gone, everybody's abandoning me.

(11:47):
Um, am I made to be mediocre?
Right?
Like, how can if I'm made inyour image, then why do I suffer
like this?
You know, like all these allthese things came up.
And so, you know, but it's weirdbecause you're like, you don't
know truly what's on the otherside, you know, until and I
guess that's where like thefaith comes in for a lot of
people, where some people justknow.

(12:08):
But I think for me, it was likeit was so hard, even though this
was the second attempt, right?
That first attempt was basicallylike me cutting the the back of
my leg, you know, and hopingthat I'd bleed out.
And um, it was just like all itdid was just basically feed
adrenaline.
Sure.
You know, and it was like yourbody goes into that fight or

(12:31):
flight mode, you know, when thatadrenaline kicks in, so it's
like it makes it even harder.
Um, but it gets painful, youknow, the more places you try.
So it's it's weird, you know, tothink about that.

SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
So what what made you think that you weren't
enough?
Like, is it is it stemming froma dad that never said he loved
you or from not growing up withthe mom?
Or I mean, how does how does allthat come into play?
Do you think?
I mean, 23 years old, man,you're I say it's pretty young,
but kids are committing suicideat 12, 13, 14, 15 years old now.

SPEAKER_04 (13:02):
So yeah, you know, I mean I think there's a lot of
contributing factors.
I think again, we've talkedabout this the way that we grew
up, right?
We grew up and your dad saidthrow some dirt on it, right?
But did you die?
Yeah, for sure.
Right.
And again, it's women wentthrough the same thing, right?
They were told to be a lady,don't show anger, you know, all
this stuff.
So it's like both sides alreadydon't have balance because we

(13:25):
were told to hide certainthings, right?
And you know, for the most part,like I never realized how much
of an impact having two fan uhtwo parents meant, even if it
was a broken household.
But as long as you had twoparents, you could still kind of
get what you needed.
But my mom left when I was nine,maybe eight and a half, and just

(13:46):
haven't talked to her since?
So she's around, but we've neverhad like a really close
relationship, you know.
And at nine years old, you don'tknow.
So, like, my dad was raisingthree of us by himself.
My brother at the time, I thinkhe was 13, and my my brother
told my dad he was like, Hey, Ineed you to step up and I need

(14:06):
you to help with your brotherand sister.
And so I can't imagine what thatlooks like at 13 years old to be
basically be thrust into a dadrole because he was basically
cooking, he was cleaning, he wasthe one making sure that we were
doing chores because my dad'snow working side jobs, he's
taking classes to teach in theevenings, you know.
But I think part of that wasalso his escape, right?

(14:27):
Where he could just stay atwork, plug into work, you know.
But, you know, at nine, and mysister was eight years old or
seven years old at the time, youknow, we just basically all my
dad hears is that we miss mom.
We have no idea why she's gone,right?
And there were signs.
I mean, we we we heard themfight often, you know.

(14:48):
I remember one time my mom likeslammed this TV down and it cut
my dad.
You know, uh they would go onthese trips to try my dad would
take her on these trips to tryand make it work or whatever.
But I mean we heard all thefighting, but again, we had no
idea.
And but for me, I think thething is that like I carry this
blame.
I remember one time my mom camein, she was out, and again, they
weren't really like together,but she was still kind of living

(15:10):
at the house, and she crawledinto my bed at like four o'clock
in the morning just to basicallynot have to go and and you know
sneak in to let my father knowthat she was there.
And I remember she was like herfeet were like ice cold, and so
I told my dad, I was like, Oh, Icouldn't sleep.
Mom came in at like four o'clockin the morning.
Well, next thing I know, likethe following week they divorced
where they started that process.

(15:30):
So I always assumed that it wasmy fault.

SPEAKER_00 (15:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (15:33):
Right.
But not once did I ever haveeither side tell me it's not
your fault, right?
And so I carried that forprobably up through I was like
15 years old, thinking that itwas all me.
And that one incident was thething that caused everything.
So not having that motherfigure, right?
My and and again, kudos to a lotof the moms because they fulfill

(15:56):
both roles.
But it's hard for a father tofulfill both roles because a dad
knows tough love, a dad knows tobe a provider.
Not all dads maybe have thatsoft side, unless maybe you're a
girl dad.

SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (16:09):
But I know that my sister had a lot of that
affection, but I certainlydidn't get it.
And I can't imagine that mybrother feels like he did
either.
But there's a respect, right?
Because my dad turned around andraised three of us by himself,
and this was in the 90s.
You know, that's unheard of.

SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (16:27):
So, you know, I th I I feel like that when I go back
now, I realize that there was alot of that, and you know, I
remember being in third gradeand basically just coming home
before it got dark, right?
Because I didn't have my dad tothere to be like, hey, make sure
you're home, right?
It was just like, well, if Ibeat him home or if I'm home
before dark, I'm good.

(16:48):
And so, you know, I spent a lotof time isolated, I spent a lot
of time sneaking out to go anddo whatever I wanted.
Um, and I didn't have like thatdiscipline that maybe a father
usually has, you know.
Um, I call it the dad voice.
Yeah, you know, sometimes youhave to be like, what are you
doing?
Right.
Um, like I only got that when Igot in trouble at home.

(17:10):
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So it was like I learned how todo the sneaky stuff, right?
I remember one time I stole mydad's credit card to sign up for
America Online, and I forgot itwas a 30-day trial.
So I'd been using America Onlinefor 30 days plus.
And then finally, on like the40th day, my dad was like, What
the hell is this?
Right?
And he's like, This is thischarge for 40 bucks.

(17:32):
I didn't sign up for it, and I'mhearing him yell at these guys
on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 (17:35):
I'm like, that was me.
What's America Online?

SPEAKER_04 (17:37):
Oh man, America Online was the first internet,
bro.
I mean, I know I've I've I'venever used it.
Oh, so AOL.
America Online, yeah, so we usedto have the dial up and the
phone like that.

SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
I didn't realize, I guess that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 (17:55):
It was like a disc that you had to install.
Um, but yeah, dude, I stole mydad's credit card to sign up for
America Online.
And um man, I got the whooping.
I had a stick that had that Ihad to write my name on it
because my dad would whoop mewith that thing.

SPEAKER_01 (18:10):
Oh my god, too crazy.

SPEAKER_04 (18:13):
So like it was a whole different time frame,
right?
Yeah, for sure.
And again, don't come after myfather, he's a good dude.
Like it was just a differenttime frame.

SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
It was a different time, man.
I feel like you know, a lot ofmen don't have that feminine
side to them, right?
Even though we all do, it just alot of us store it away.
Yeah, you know, I grew up withjust a single mom, so you know,
I was always told it's okay tocry, it's okay to be in your
feelings, it's okay, buteverything in society always

(18:41):
told me not to, right?
So it's not like I grew up in ahome where it was like, no, you
can't.
I grew up in a home was yeah,you can, but I also I feel like
as a child we take in a lot morethan what we get from the
society than we do in our ownhome.
Right.
Um, you know, growing up withouta mom, dude, I just I feel like

(19:02):
is I don't know, dude.
I feel like it's equivalent, orit's not equivalent.
I think it's more destructive togrow up without a mom than it is
without a father.
But I don't know because youknow, Mark, my stepdad came into
my life when I was four, and youknow, he's a big reason why I am

(19:22):
the person that I am.
So I still had a father figure,right?
But I also resented my stepdaduntil I was 18 and then figured
out like, oh, this guy's justtrying to love me.
Right.
Right.
Right.
But I still felt like I had asafe haven with my mom.

SPEAKER_04 (19:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
And she always had my back, and you know, I was all
always her little boy.
So I always had that likefeminine side to me, which that
softer side of virtuality,right?
But also feel like I I lost andwon a lot in life because of
that.
Like I was always a little bitmore softer in relationships
than I should have been.
I was always the too nice guy.
I was always, you know what Imean?

(20:02):
So I feel like I had thefeminine side, but someone
growing up without with a dad,without of like pull yourselves
up by the bootstraps mentality,no feminine side.
I mean, that is I feel likethat's crucial to uh to a little
boy, you know.
And then the guilt and the shamethat comes along with your mom
leaving.
I mean, I'm sure that just ledinto and and eventually uh over

(20:28):
overran itself in your body orin your mind, and then it just
led from one thing to another.

SPEAKER_04 (20:33):
Yeah, so you know what's really crazy is that like
when all of this happened, mysister and I were basically like
the the school knew, and I hadno idea how they knew, but you
know, obviously looking back, myfather had conversations or
whatever with the school, and sothey provided like some
counseling services.
Sure.
And it wasn't like all the time.

(20:54):
I guess maybe they had somebodywho would come in every once in
a while, maybe it was just likea quarterly check-in or
something like that.
But I remember like every oncein a while we'd have to go after
school.
Um, and nobody like imposed thison me, but I remember
specifically trying to protectmy sister, and when people would
ask if we were okay, I justinstinctively lied and would

(21:15):
say, Yeah, we're fine.

SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (21:17):
Right.
And my sister had I don't thinkshe ever answered for herself.

SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (21:21):
Because my job, I guess, in my in my in my mind
was that I need to protect her.

SPEAKER_01 (21:26):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (21:27):
And so if I admit that we don't that we're not
okay, then it makes it real tous that we're, you know, that
we're not okay.
So if I say that we're fine.

SPEAKER_02 (21:37):
Sure.

SPEAKER_04 (21:38):
And so it's crazy that even at third in third
grade at nine years old, that Ipick that up.

SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (21:44):
Right.
And so, you know, it's it's it'sweird because statistically, I
think I just read not too longago that girls basically they
need and they're really attachedto their fathers up until about
age nine.
And ten and above, they reallyneed mom's influence, right?
And they need that's when theystart to learn like a lot of

(22:06):
things that mom does, whetherit's cooking or cleaning or you
know, managing household, theystart to pick up on all those
things.
And vice versa for for boys,right?
They're kind of mama's boys, um,you know, obviously for life,
but I mean up to usually 10years old.
But then that's really when theyneed the father to start taking
over and to start imparting, youknow, things like working hard,

(22:28):
um, you know, uh being a familyman, you know, all those things.
And so oftentimes what happensis that in a lot of marriages,
the wife is kind of ahead offinances, the wife is kind of
looked at as the matriarch ofthe family, and she's ultimately
kind of the main decision maker.
And a lot of times it's becausethe the husband doesn't make any

(22:49):
of those decisions.
And so, even like statistically,going to church, families that
have the father that lead themgoing to church, the kids uh
tend to go to church 80% of thetime.
They also have a highergraduation rate, they read
better.

SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 (23:05):
Versus when the mom leads them, a lot of times it's
not a necessity, it's a lot oftimes the father dragging the
feet.
Sure.
And so the kids only have like a20 to 30 percent rate where they
stay within the church.

SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
That's interesting.
Yeah.
I hated getting waken up to goto church by anybody.

SPEAKER_04 (23:20):
Yeah, and it's it's uh, and again, I mean, you know,
a lot of people are gonna turnaround and probably arguing the
stats and all that stuff, andthat's okay.
Like, you know, uh there's areason why this research gets
done, but you know, it isimportant to basically have
equals, right?
That a mom and dad are equallyimportant at different times,
especially more so than theother.

(23:42):
And that's okay, but that's alsoa hard pill for a lot of parents
to swallow in today's world.
And I know it's especiallyharder for those who are single
parents that may be listening tothis because you're forced to do
it all.
And again, kudos to you forhaving the ability to pick that

(24:02):
up.
But you know, our generationgrew up at that point with the
highest divorce rates.
Yeah.
Now obviously they're throughthe roof, but there's a reason
why all those things matter.
There's a reason why this mentalhealth stuff has picked up so
drastically.
That's the reason why we'resitting here today having this
conversation.

SPEAKER_01 (24:19):
For sure.
So, what do you think?
I mean, obviously you weredepressed when you were 23,
right?

SPEAKER_02 (24:24):
Dude, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (24:25):
So, what was like a typical day in Patrick's mind of
being depressed and likesuicidal ideology and like
wondering when this is gonna endand how I was gonna get through
it, or how you know, whatever.
Like, what is run me through it,run me through a day?

SPEAKER_04 (24:37):
So, how it got there was basically I had a loss of
identity.
Okay, I had uh basically marriedthe girl, uh, my high school
sweetheart.
Oh, you were married, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
I did not know that.

SPEAKER_04 (24:46):
Okay, and then um basically, like I thought in my
mind, I was like, I'm not gonnabe a statistic, right?
We're gonna do this and we'regonna be married.
And um, well, you know, I wentfrom thinking that we had only
slept with each other to findingout that I had slept with half a
restaurant.

unknown (25:04):
Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 (25:05):
You know, and it was like years of piecing it all
together.
But at that time, I was like,I'm not gonna be a statistic,
right?
That was my whole thing.
It was like my parents weredivorced, your parents have been
divorced, your mom's beendivorced like three times.
Like, you know, we're gonna bethe ones to break through this.
It starts with us.
Nope.

SPEAKER_00 (25:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (25:24):
Um, and you know, again, because I had not had
that feminine love, right?
I had not had that feministtouch, and you know, and I had
several like mother figures thatkind of um, you know, my
friends, different momsbasically were treated me like
their own, you know, for thetimes that I was there, and I'm
so thankful for that.

(25:44):
But it's not the same, right?

SPEAKER_01 (25:46):
You didn't know what it looked like.

SPEAKER_04 (25:47):
No, I remember going to my friend's house, and um, my
best friend Tim, his mom, eventhough he was in ninth grade,
would tuck him in the bed.
And his younger brother, who waslike in eighth grade, she would
go to his room, tuck him in, andtheir sister Kat, she was in
sixth grade, and she would gotuck each one of them in.

(26:07):
And I remember her for the firsttime like ever in my life that
she would actually tuck theblanket under me and tuck me in,
she's like, Good night, son.
And I like I'd never experiencedthat.
Yeah, sure, you know, and so tohave some of those experiences
meant the world to me.
But when my ex and I startedhaving all of this, I had put

(26:31):
everything into this.
I mean, I thought I tried tobreak up with her when I
graduated high school becauseshe was a year or two behind me.
And you know, I basically said Iwas gonna leave for college, and
then I ended up staying becauseI thought, where else am I gonna
find somebody that understandsall of my faults?

(26:51):
Right.
And so I stayed for the wrongreasons.

SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_04 (26:55):
Right.
And it was should have been ared flag then.
And there was a time when I likecaught her talking to somebody
that was in her grade level,like when I was like working,
and so it was just kind of likea repeat process, and that you
know, and I'm not gonna say it'sall her, right?
There's a lot of things I wastrying to figure out going
through all this stuff too.
But there was a point when I wasgoing to school, working full

(27:19):
time, right, 40 hours a week, uhworking the late shift.
I'd go from 1 p.m.
to midnight four days a week,going to school three days a
week, and then working part-timeuh as a uh as a youth minister
to help out you know these kidsat church.

SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
It's grinded, dude.

SPEAKER_04 (27:35):
Yeah.
And the idea was like, you don'thave to work unless you
absolutely want to.
Well, she wanted to, which wasfine, but I was like, okay, I'm
I'm trying to get through allthis.
And I remember I came homeearly, got approved to go home
early, and uh surprised her.
I was like, oh, let's go todinner.
And she's like, Okay, I forgotsomething in the house, I'll be

(27:57):
right back, and her phone rings.
I was like, Oh, that's weird.
So I pick it up, no answer.
And I said, Hey, your phonerang.
I was like, Do you know who thatis?
And her look on her face waslike, mm-mm.
And I was like, Oh, okay.
I was like, Well, why don't youcall it back?
You know, I I didn't knowanything of it.

SPEAKER_00 (28:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (28:15):
And she was like, Oh, she goes, I'll worry about
it later.
Go to dinner, come back home.
She was like, I gotta be honestwith you.
And I said, What?
She said, Yeah, that number ismy boss.
I said, Why the hell is hecalling you at seven o'clock at
night?
And she was like, I don't wantyou to freak out.
I need you to promise me.
I said, I can't promiseanything.

(28:36):
I was like, This is crazy.
And she's like, Yeah, she goes,We've been seeing each other.
And I just felt sick.
Yeah, you know, but like like Iwhen I say felt sick, man, like
I felt like that my entirespirit came out of my body, like

(28:56):
for sure, you know, just allthrough my stomach, and I was
like, I didn't know what to do.
But that if eventually led tokind of going down this road of
depression, again, loss ofidentity, because everything
that I knew, uh like everythingI did, I thought was for us, you
know, working multiple jobs, youknow, going to school to further

(29:17):
my career, you know, um, all ofthese things, and you know, for
what?
And so after that, like Iliterally tried everything I
could to try and avoid beingalone.
So I feel so bad for so manypeople that are like on my

(29:39):
Facebook uh friends list becauselike if they were on, I'd
message them and they had tohear like the worst stories,
they'd have to hear me talkingcrap about her, talking crap
about probably like just thingsin general.
Um, such a negative person,like, even just some of the old
poetry that I was writing.
I wrote one that basically said,you know, like um.

(30:00):
You know, angels dying, and andlike, you know, I'll have to
pull it up one of these days.
But it was like such a darkmoment, and it's like everybody
I talked to, I'm sure I wastoxic.

SPEAKER_02 (30:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (30:09):
And nobody probably wanted to hang out with me, but
for some reason, some peopledid.
And I had a couple of friends.
I had one guy at work where Icouldn't afford to eat.
You know, once we started kindof like separation and all that
stuff, I was stuck in this housethat I couldn't afford by
myself.
So I was paying rent in twochecks.

(30:30):
I was bouncing lights to keepthe light on.
I learned that if you had adollar in your uh checking
account, you could get a fulltank of gas because it just
registers you know that firstinitial dollar.
Um I don't know how I gotthrough it, right?
But um just some of the crazieststuff.
And I had a uh a guy who wouldjust basically, you know, we'd

(30:52):
be hanging out and he would justpush over a meal, you know, he'd
buy extra meal and just slide itover, or he'd turn around and
he's like, Oh man, I got anextra one.
They gave me one, right?
And and you know, he was theonly person that could kind of
see the signs, but he never madea big deal about it.
And then later I had somefriends when I was out on leave
at work, they would just dropstuff off at the desk at the
porch.
Hey man, we we didn't know ifyou eat eat had eaten, nobody's

(31:14):
heard from you in a week or two,but here's something, you know.
And it's like those things it'sso easy to take for granted.
And you look back now and I'mlike, man, those people saved my
life.
But I had no identity, I had noidea who I was, and so
therefore, what am I made for?

(31:35):
What purpose do I serve?
Because if everything that Iplaced in my entire world was in
this and that didn't work, thenwhat else can what else am I
good for?

SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
Sure.
Well, I feel like you associatedI feel like you associated love
from a female of just someonethat was just gonna leave, you
know, or someone that was goingto disappoint you, or you know.
I mean, am I wrong?
Am I right?

SPEAKER_04 (32:03):
Yeah, I mean, well, you think about it, like I never
had any of that affection,right?
So for me, that was the ultimateprize.
That was the thing, the onething that was missing, quote
unquote.

SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (32:12):
And so when I finally got it, I fell really
hard and I thought, you knowwhat?
God, if I don't leave, or if Ido leave, then maybe I'm letting
go of the one person that trulygets me.
And so again, it stayed for allthe wrong reasons, right?
And if I I look back on it, I'mlike, that's really crazy that
you could put all of yourhappiness into somebody else.
And it's a common mistake that alot of young people do and who

(32:34):
are in love, right?
But also at the same time, likeI'm so thankful for the path of
where it went because my wifenow, my family, like my son,
like man, it's mind-blowing liketo think that I had to go
through that to get to this.
But if I knew that I had to gothrough all that, like all that
heartache, all that heartbreakall over again, in a second, I

(32:57):
would do it.

SPEAKER_01 (32:58):
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (32:59):
But that's only comes with overtime.
Yeah, you know, for sure.
For sure.

SPEAKER_01 (33:02):
Well, we talked about that last week, man, with
my story too.
I felt like I wouldn't Iwouldn't take back the worst
thing that ever happened to mebecause it made me who I who I
am.
A thousand percent.
It made me a lot moreempathetic, it made more more a
lot more loving, it made me alot more understanding of why
people are going through whatthey're going through and why
they treat me the way that theydo, you know, and a lot of

(33:24):
times, dude, it has nothing todo with you, even as a
nine-year-old boy, bro.
Like your mom leaving probablyhad very little or nothing to do
with you at all.

SPEAKER_02 (33:32):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (33:32):
You know, but when we're growing up, dude, that's
all it's fed to us, you know,through through um intrusive
thinking or negative thinking orum, you know, what is talked
about around the house orwhatever the case is, you know,
I feel like that is somethingthat gets instilled in us that

(33:54):
it's our fault.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (33:55):
Well, and I think that you're just searching for
answers.
Yeah, right.
And so when when somethingdoesn't make sense or when you
can't do that, I think your bodyhas one of two options to either
cognitively file it away so youdon't think about it, or you try
to legitimize and find somethingthat makes sense.

(34:15):
Sure.
And so I think for me, the onlyexplanation that I could come up
with of leaving was because mymom snuck into the house and and
came and slept with me at fouro'clock in the morning.
Because, you know, that to methat was the only logical thing
that made sense.
That's like what caused thedivorce was because my dad was
so upset that he decided tofinally file papers.

(34:37):
You know, it's not the fact thatyou know my mom was out gambling
uh late at night, the fact thatshe wasn't there physically as a
mother for us, that she would,you know, intentionally like do
all these things like you know,what nine-year-old can
understand all those things?

SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Yeah, man.
I think it's it's hard for a kidbecause you know I think you're
right, dude.
We're just searching for thingsto make sense, and when they
don't, we just go into theabsolute worst case scenario,
and that usually comes back onus one way or another.

(35:11):
Right.
You know?
Yeah.
So crazy, dude.
So when did you think when wasthe moment where you were like
your aha moment of like, oh thisis why I went through what I
went through, or did it happenright away?
Did it happen all at once?
Did it happen over time?

SPEAKER_04 (35:27):
You know, I think a lot of it is that uh time really
does heal.
Yeah, sure.
And I know it sounds cliche, butlike hindsight's always 2020,
right?
But you know, a lot of it isalso just kind of facing things
head on, right?
We oftentimes we deflect.
And so um love the book thatsays the body keeps score,

(35:49):
right?
And so one way or another thepain will basically try to
reveal itself, but the problemis that we subside it, we
basically we take some medicineand hope it goes away.
Well then it all eventuallyoverflows, yes, yeah, yes, and
so I think that one of the fewthings that was super
instrumental is I had a friendnamed Matt, and Matt was uh a

(36:12):
filmmaker.
Now, when I first met Matt, Mattwas uh overweight, right?
And we both had basically werekind of in the the arcade scene
for fighting games, you know,competitive, and so it's how I
got connected with him.
But Matt was always a little bitdifferent, and it's because he
was an artist, and it had beenseveral years since I had seen

(36:33):
him, and he had kind of seensome of my Facebook posts, and I
think maybe he recognized someof the patterns or some of the
things that I was stating.
And I remember he's like, hey,let's grab a coffee or something
like that.
And this is kind of funnybecause I I think I was probably
21 at the time, and I rememberlike distinctly that I don't

(36:54):
think I'd ever gone out toactually have a cup of coffee
with somebody.
Yeah, I'd been through toStarbucks, you know, or
whatever, but I don't think Ilike actually went and sat down
to have a cup of coffee withsomebody.
I just I wasn't drinking it.
And I remember Matt sitting downwith me and he just said, Look,
I know you're probably hurtinglike hell.
And I said, Oh, is that obvious?

(37:14):
Because I hadn't seen this guyin years, right?
And he said, Look, he's like,just embrace it.
And that was the weirdest thingto me.
I said, What do you mean,embrace it?
He said, The best part aboutbeing human is being human.
And it was such a foreignconcept to me, but I went home
that night and I just could notstop thinking about that.
And I remember like I messagedhim and I was like, What does

(37:38):
that mean for for you?
And he said, I was in a darkspace.
He's like, I was hu grosslyoverweight.
He's like, I couldn't even walkdown the street without you know
having an asthma attack.
And he's like, and and my wholeidentity, my entire life was
being fat.
He's like, but it's the littlethings, right?
He's like, every time I go downthe street and I start wheezing,

(38:00):
I think of all the people thatbasically make fun of me.
I think of all the things that Icouldn't do.
He's like, and then I would justone step further, one foot in
front of the other every singletime.
And by the way, when I met uhreconnected with Matt, he was
not fat at all.
No, uh super fit, right?
And um and he was like, Whydon't you come out and jump on a

(38:23):
film set?
He's like, I can't pay you.
He's like, I can buy you lunch.
He's like, just come on the filmset and be and learn all these
things.
And you know, I remember heshared his poetry with me, a
manuscript, something that hedidn't really care for, but he
saw that I was writing.
And I'll never forget, he waslike, I uh I started writing,
and he's like, I see you'rewriting some poetry, and I sent

(38:44):
some stuff to him, and you know,I don't think he even read it
now that I look back on it, buthe was like, Man, he's like,
just keep writing.
And it was basically the ideathat just keep going, no matter
what, just keep going.
If it doesn't matter if itsucks, doesn't matter if it's
good.
I like I said, I I swear I don'tthink he even read it, but he
just said, keep going.

(39:06):
And for that was basically whatinspired me to keep writing, and
I would just send him stuff, andI'm sure he didn't read any of
it, but he was like, Man, yeah,like just keep writing.
Like I'll just be in a light inyour life, yeah, yeah.
But all he said was keepwriting.
He never once said it was good,it was horrible.
He just said keep writing.
Yeah, and the idea was just keepgoing, yeah, no matter what.
It doesn't matter if it's good,it doesn't matter if it's bad,

(39:28):
just keep going.
Yeah, and I look back on thattoday and I'm like, damn, what
kind of Zen master are you tojust sit there and be like, just
keep going, like not giving anypraise, not giving any
criticism, but to encouragesomebody to just know that if
you keep going, you'll figure itout.

SPEAKER_01 (39:45):
Yeah, well, it's he gave you it's like
subconsciously he gave you asense of purpose without
actually saying hundred percentbecause that's what you were
looking for, right?
Was a purpose.
Why are you here?
Why are you still living, eventhough you tried to commit
suicide multiple times, youknow?

SPEAKER_04 (40:00):
And to just not to just say keep going, you know,
because a lot of people willblow smoke up your ass.

SPEAKER_00 (40:05):
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (40:05):
And a lot of people turn around and maybe be there
for just a moment.
That's okay, right?
You know, some people areseasonal, some people come in
and out of your lives as youneed them to.
But to be able to take that andyou know, I spent years in the
slam poetry scene.
I spent years um, you know,trying to learn about poetry.

(40:26):
I had a a mentor when I firstwas live streaming on Twitch,
and this guy's a five-time worldhaiku master champion.
And like, have you ever seen ahaiku battle?
No.
Okay.
So, you know, haiku is limitedto traditionally five, seven,
five syllables, right?
So the first line, fivesyllables, second.

(40:47):
So think of like a rap battle,but limited to those types of
syllables, and you have to comeup on the fly or have a
punchline to deliver in thosehaikus, and this guy could do it
on the fly just like that.

SPEAKER_00 (41:00):
Wow.

SPEAKER_04 (41:00):
And so it's almost like I'm trying to, you know, a
lot of people are like, What?
I've never heard of this, but gowatch some of these haiku
battles.
It's really crazy because theyhave to think on the fly and
they have they're limited on howmany sentences or how many
syllables they get.
And uh, this is the guy thattaught me how to live stream.
This is the guy that took mypoetry to a whole nother level.

(41:21):
Because he was like, What youwrite is so raw.
He's like, but he's like, whathappens when I listen to your
poetry is you get to this pointwhere I'm like so ready to go.
He's like, and then you cut itoff.
First poem I ever heard fromthis guy was like a seven-minute
long poem.
And I was like, What?

(41:41):
I've never heard of anythingthat long before.
And he was like, Yeah, he'slike, I'm gonna teach you how to
get poetry stamina, I'm gonnateach you how to go to that next
level, that deeper level.
And he did.
And um writing just to keepgoing to save my life.

SPEAKER_01 (41:59):
Yeah, hell yeah, dude.
You said something, um I justlost my train of thought here.
I don't remember.
That's alright.
But um so when you met Sharon,bro, so you were 23 when all

(42:20):
this happened, right?

SPEAKER_04 (42:22):
Yeah, uh probably tail end of 22, almost 23.
So when you met and then you metSharon when?
So Sharon actually grew up goingto the same church as kids.
Okay.
And so uh she actually came overwhen she was about four years
old.
So I tell everybody she's myimport wife.
Um, but yeah, she came over, herparents came over on a visa, and

(42:43):
we actually went to the samechurch growing up.

SPEAKER_00 (42:44):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (42:45):
And um, you know, as kids, you don't know um what
you're doing, or you don't knowlike if you like somebody, but
she'd be swinging and I'd takeher shoe and I'd chuck it across
the yard, you know, things likethat.
So hell yeah.
Yeah, but you know, as a kid,you don't know that.
Yeah, for sure.
You know, and and to her, I'mjust being an ass.
Um, but yeah, I was like shortlyafter that stuff, I was in the

(43:07):
poetry scene.
I'd been single for a couple ofyears and I swore off never get
married again, you know.
And um just you know, for me itwas like I'm going to work, I'm
doing poetry, and then um I'mgetting involved in some film
stuff, right?
So during that time I'd workedon a YouTube channel that got
unofficially sponsored by Nerf.

(43:28):
And uh what I mean by that isthat they sent us everything,
they sent us all their toys,like Nerf guns?

SPEAKER_01 (43:33):
Yeah.
Oh, that's dope.

SPEAKER_04 (43:34):
Yeah, and um they did they basically said they
they wanted us to be unofficialbecause they wanted real life
reactions, so we weren't paid,but they would send us
everything to review.
And um that's cool.
Yeah, some of the guys that I Imet on set that I was uh working
on, uh some of the stuff setwith with uh Matt, um they

(43:54):
turned around and invited me tosome of their projects, and so
that's how I started gettingconnected.
Uh during that time, I also didsome acting for Spike TV.
So I actually have IMDB creditsfor a YouTube channel and Spike
TV and stuff like that.
Yeah.
But like I said, I went andtried everything.
But you know, um, I think it wasFacebook, Sharon's sister had
found me.

(44:16):
And um again, during this time,I'm like still late at night,
still up for days at a timesometimes.
So if somebody's online at twoo'clock in the morning, I'm
shooting them a message, right?
It was just kind of one of thosethings again, I hated being by
myself at during that time.
And Sharon's sister hadconnected me, I think, while I
was at work, and so I wastalking with her, and I totally
forgot that she had a sister.

(44:37):
And then when when wereconnected, I saw her Facebook
profile picture and I was like,this is gonna be my wife.
And it was the weirdest thingbecause we hadn't talked yet.
Finally, she messaged me,responded, and uh, we started
chatting.
And then um, I her parents stilllive down here, so she was
coming down, and I was like,Well, why don't you come to one
of my poetry shows?

(44:57):
And um, we just kind of took offfrom there.
And ever since then, man, we'vejust kind of been you know, two
peas in a pot.

SPEAKER_01 (45:03):
That's so funny, dude.
I called out my wife before weeven talked to her.
Did you really?
We were I was we worked atBubba's together.
She didn't know what I existedyet.
And um I told my buddy Todd, whohad worked, he still works
there, but at the time, Bubba's.
Um I was like, hey, you see thatgirl right there?
And he's like, Yeah, what abouther?
And I said, one day she's gonnabe my wife.

(45:24):
And sure as shit, dude, here weare 10 years later, you know.
But uh that's too funny.
I remember what I was gonna say.
I I uh you touched on somethingsaying that your friend said to
embrace just embrace it.
I think that's something that alot of like anxiety suffers and
a lot of depression, like whatit what like what's the
automatic response in thosethings that's to fight it,

(45:49):
right?
Right, right.
And the more we fight it, theworse it gets.
And that was something that Igot with my anxiety.
I mean, I had depression at attimes, but I think just because
my hormones were so up and downthat whatever was depleted, my
serotonin or dopamine orwhatever the case is.
But the day I decided just to belike, I know what this is, I'm

(46:12):
not having a heart attack, Idon't have a crazy disease, I'm
not depri I mean, I am I'm I'mdepressed, but like why instead
of like searching forreasonings, just it is what it
is.
Let's see if we can kind of justget over the hump, just one foot
in front of the other, day byday, inch by inch.
Right.

(46:32):
You know what I mean?
So I think that's somethingthat's important for everyone to
know is that stop trying tofight it so much because I think
the more we dwell on it, themore we think about it, it's
just feeding the fire.
Yes, right?
Yes.
So I think that's a really goodpoint that your friend Matt made
was just embrace it, man.
And I and now that's a loteasier said than done because
the last thing we want to feelis anxious or depressed, or just

(46:56):
out of our mental state ingeneral, right?
Right, 100%.
Um, you know, I never like Itouched on last episode, we I
never really had I never had adesire to kill myself, but I
understood why.
Yeah.
But you know, just being in painfor that long, man, whether it's
being inside your own head orbeing isolated, or which I think

(47:20):
I was isolated on purpose.
Um, but you know, I just thinkif we embrace what's happening
to us and just understand it iswhat it is, and there's there's
a way to heal from this, right,instead of thinking like, oh
man, I'm gonna be like thisforever, right?
How am I gonna get out of this?
But that's a really hardmentality to have when you're in

(47:43):
it.
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (47:44):
Well, and I think that I don't know why, but a lot
of times we're sold that theseideas are and that these things
that we go through arepermanent.

SPEAKER_00 (47:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (47:54):
Right.
Well, at the time it feels thatway.
Right.
No, absolutely.
It feels like, you know,forever.
But it's like every singleparent teaches you these things
as if it's a permanentsituation, right?
Um, like we we talk about theidea of marriage, being till
death do you part, but how manypeople actually make that
statistically?

SPEAKER_01 (48:14):
Yeah, what is it, 50% of marriages end in divorce
right now?

SPEAKER_04 (48:18):
I think it's a little bit more, yeah.
Right.
Um, you know, and and peoplethink that they're married to
maybe the business that theystart and and treat it as if it
is going to be a marriage ortheir child, right?
And I get it, like it's yourbaby, but also at the same time,
do you know how many people turnaround and are part of the
building phase and they move onto the next thing because they
just love being a part of thatbuilding phase?

(48:40):
And so so many of these things,this idea of you know that it's
permanently standing, right?
That all of these things arekind of like tattoos.
But the idea really is that ifwe taught our kids to learn how
to pivot, if we taught kidsthat, you know what, like you
will recover from this,sometimes it just takes time,

(49:01):
and uh to be able to embrace it.
And then that's a a concept thatis very foreign even now.
Because I tell people a lot, youknow, I call it the beautiful
struggle.
Yeah, and a lot of people when Isay that, they're like their
mind twists, right?
Because they're like, what doesthat mean?
And again, it's the same thing,you just have to embrace what
you're going through.
And it's like we talked aboutearlier um before the show

(49:23):
started, right?
Being in high frequency, liferewards you when you're going in
the right direction.
But the more resistance youhave, maybe the more that you're
gonna suffer until you figure itout.

SPEAKER_01 (49:32):
Yeah, for sure.
I think Aaron said it great,man.
I think you know, he said, ifit's if it's hard, it if it's
too hard, it's probably what'dyou say?
Yeah, for sure.
Doing the right thing is notsupposed to be difficult, right?
Right.
And, you know, I think a lot ofI mean you think about what you
just said, dude.
If we instill in our in our kidsto pivot, they'll grow up more

(49:55):
resilient, mindful kids asadults, right?
But how many kids, or how manyadults now that are like, oh
man, I've had depression since Iwas six, or I've had anxiety
since I was five, or whateverthe, you know, whatever the
mental struggle is, right?
Well, someone told you that thiswas a lifelong commitment and
that you had to take medicationfor it to be, and I'm not I'm

(50:15):
not knocking medication, right?
I just decided to do it withoutit because that was what I felt
was beneficial for me.
Sure.
Right.
But how many parents are tellingtheir kids that this is a life
sentence?
More than more than not.

unknown (50:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (50:30):
And then, you know, these kids are four, five, six,
seven, eight, nine years oldthinking that they're gonna have
this mental crisis for the restof their life and then they're
committing suicide at 13 yearsold.
Right.
Not saying it's directly theparents' fault, but is there
something that we can instill inour kids that allow them to
think more resiliently, to thinkgreater than how they feel?
Right, right.

(50:51):
Right?
Because yeah, sure.
With hormones, dude, and likethe shit they're putting in our
food and the stuff we'redrinking and like whatever else
is happening that's making orsociety or Facebook or social
media or whatever the case is,there's something that is
getting instilled in ourchildren that is allowing them
to feel the way that they feel,which is okay, but they don't

(51:13):
have to know or they don't haveto think that they're gonna feel
like this forever.
Right, right.
And and the other thing is thatlike they have time, totally,
dude.
Right.
But what does social media tellyou?

SPEAKER_04 (51:25):
You don't have to yeah, you haven't you have to
buy it now, right?
And and so like that's somethingthat I notice is like I'm an
impulse shopper.
So if like if I if there'ssomething there, like, and I
used to be really bad about likethe candy aisle, man.
Like, we'd be there at theregister, and I'm like, oh, let
me grab this, right?
And so I noticed that my son isalso an impulse buyer, and so

(51:46):
he's like, Oh, dad, what aboutthis joy ride?
What about this kind of joy,whatever, like all this stuff?
And I'm like, I have to stopbecause if I don't, he's going
to think it's okay every time.
And so it's interesting to seeeven like the little things that
they pick up on, right?
For sure, and then they turnaround, they're like, Well, dad
did it, well, mom did it, right?

(52:07):
It's okay for you, but it's notokay for me.
And then, you know, and I'mlike, it's a blessing and a
curse to have a smart child,man.
Like for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (52:15):
It's a blessing and a curse, too, to have our
children be raised better thanwhen we were raised.
Yes, you know what I mean.
Double parent households, moremoney on the table than there's
ever been, you know, more shitin the house than there's ever
been, toys out the ass, youknow, it just I I totally agree
with you.
But we have to be able to teachthem how to pivot.

SPEAKER_04 (52:37):
Yeah.
Well, and and I think that'salso something that, and and
again, this is um, I think thisis coming from that that Dennis
Rodman tweet that I sent you.
Oh, yeah.
Um it's a lifetime of trying.
And, you know, so for those ofyou who don't know, Dennis
Rodman's daughter is basicallyuh ghosting him.

(52:59):
She's in the WNBA, I believe,and he's not allowed to go to
her games uh because of hiscurrent uh significant other.
But you know, there's all thesestories about how he abandoned
her and how he's not there, buthe's making amends publicly,
even.
And he's trying, and he saidthat he'll spend the rest of his
life trying, and you know, it'sit's crazy because moms don't

(53:23):
stay shunned for very long, notat least not too often, usually,
but fathers can get shunned fora lifetime, and that's crazy for
sure.

SPEAKER_01 (53:33):
Yeah, dude, I just think that you know, going back
to what I said, dude, it's justas adults me and you now, I
mean, how I was 25 years oldwhen my like it wasn't it wasn't
out of my own willpower that Iwas like, okay, I'm gonna deal

(53:55):
with all my childhood traumaright now and it's gonna end in
an ego death and I'm gonna havestruggles and I'm gonna for the
next seven years you're gonnafeel like your life's in the in
the shitter because it was.
Right.
Obviously, I didn't decide thatfor myself, it just you know,
going back to your book, TheBody Keep Score, which I've
never read, I've heard a lotabout it, which I I'd love to
read it, but there's a point inyour life that you're gonna have

(54:16):
to deal with it whether you wantto or not.
100%.
And um how many of us I'm kindof contradicting myself because
I said that I wouldn't take backthe worst thing that ever
happened to me, but would I havebeen able to deal with it sooner
if I was taught to pivot?

(54:37):
If I was taught to understand,like, hey, this isn't something
you're gonna go through forever.
I know it may seem like it rightnow, but let's deal with it now
so you don't have to deal withit when you're an adult.
And that's something I'm tryingto teach in my kids now, you
know, my 12-year-oldspecifically, especially, is
that like, dude, like it's okay,dude.
Like it's it's gonna get betteron the other side of things, but

(54:58):
you gotta deal with it now.
Yeah.
You know, so I mean, was there apoint where you were like, oh,
this is all stemming from mychildhood, or oh, this is all
stemming from from from my earlymarriage, or you know, was there
a point where you were like, oh,like this is what I have to deal
with?
Because if I don't deal with it,and I'm just gonna be stuck here

(55:19):
forever.

SPEAKER_04 (55:20):
Let me give you a phrase that I learned, and uh
this is it was so monumentalwhen I heard it.
What you don't forgive, youbecome.
And I remember like I had somuch anger like after the
divorce and dealing with allthis stuff, and you know, it was

(55:43):
crazy because I like I thoughtbeing free of her would free me.
And all it did was actuallytorment me for a little bit
longer because I didn't know howto let it go.
And so even uh after the fact,right, we were uh dealing with
issues financially, and Iremember I was dating Sharon um

(56:06):
you know after the divorce andall this stuff, and I remember
she heard me arguing and shejust took my phone and hung up
on her.
And I said, What the hell didyou just do?
And she's like, Why would youlet her talk to you like that?
You were arguing with yourex-wife?
Yes.
And Sharon took my phone andhung up on her.

SPEAKER_01 (56:22):
That's crazy.
That takes a str that that takesa strong woman to do that, bro.

SPEAKER_04 (56:26):
And I said, Why?
And she said, She goes, Youdon't she goes, you're not
married to her.
She can't tell you what to do.
She goes, You don't need tolisten to that.
And so she would call back andSharon would block them uh block
the call and she would she'dsend it to voicemail.
She goes, I don't care if shecalls 30 times, I'll block her
30 times.
When she learns to respect you,she can talk to you.

SPEAKER_01 (56:45):
For sure, dude.
Well, some pe some people feedtheir own fuel by having control
over other people.
100%, and I think that's a prolike the big problem in our
society, actually.
You know, it's just like as longas I have control over this
certain person or these group ofpeople, or that's why a lot of
people fucking hate theirbosses, dude.
Because they're just assholes incontrol of everything, including

(57:07):
you and your paycheck.
But the same thing, dude.
I mean, she felt like she was incontrol of you and she fed her
own ego off of that.
Correct, correct.

SPEAKER_04 (57:17):
Yeah, and so you know, it's in the trenches,
right?
Like all those things, butthat's also where you learn a
lot because you're like, How didI ever let somebody get to this
point like you, right?
Even though you grew up with amom and you had kind of that
softer side and you were thenice guy, I grew up with a
father who was all about kind oflike being respectful and

(57:38):
humble.
So, I mean, like, I couldn'tleave the door when somebody
left the house until their carwas completely invisible, right?
So we're sitting there wavinglike the stepfords at the at the
door until they were gone.
And that was like when we had toclose the door, you know?
And so, like, even with completeopposite spectrums, I still
became the door mad, stillbecame the nice guy.

(58:00):
And so, you know, it's just kindof how you're built.
I mean, a lot of that isnatural, but a lot of it is the
circumstances, but kind of thesame thing, like, you know, as
you're saying that, I'm like,how did I let somebody get to
that point where I let them dothis and it became okay?
But that was my identity.
Like, man, how much abuse did Iactually take?

(58:20):
And I remember my friends comeup to me and said, It pissed me
off the way that she I said, Whydidn't you tell me?
Like, would you have listened?

SPEAKER_01 (58:26):
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (58:27):
Probably not.
Yeah, but if you recognize it,you know, and and I had some
friends where they're like, Oh,they're still friends with her,
you know, because of they didn'twant it to be awkward.
And I had one friend who waslike, screw that.
He's like, I'm not gonna talkwith her.
He's like, and if you go backwith her, I'm not talking to you
either, you know, because that'sstupid.
And it's it's kind ofinteresting to see like how the

(58:48):
dynamic happens.

SPEAKER_01 (58:49):
Yeah, for sure, man.
I think some of therelationships I've had, you
know, before I got married, Ijust I just allowed them to kind
of because I was so addicted tothe feeling of love, right?
But it's not just a feeling,it's like it's not that's and
that's what I always thought.
Like, ooh, that like giddy, thatthat like heart flutter or that,

(59:12):
you know, whatever.
Yeah, sure, that's all fine anddandy, but how long does that
last?
Usually not that long.
As soon as people not feel itanymore, they're like, Oh, I
don't, I don't, I don't lovethis person anymore.
Bro, love is work.
I'm gonna go on to the next.
It is work, dude, and it'sfucking hard, man.
It's hard to show love all thetime, and it's hard to love your

(59:33):
significant person.
I mean, I say that, and I lovemy wife very dearly, and I know
you love your wife very dearlytoo, but there I dude that we
are we are constantly changingas humans, and it's like almost
we have to like fall in and outof love with our significant
love, uh our significant otherover and over and over again as

(59:53):
a choice.

SPEAKER_04 (59:54):
Yes, yes, well, that's absolutely what it is,
right?
And so I love this term.
There's a poet that I heard thatwrote a poem, but it says love
is a verb.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:06):
It's a song by Toby Mack, too, actually.
Oh, is it?

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:09):
Okay.
Yeah.
And so obviously, you know, verbis uh an action, right?
But damn, some days, man, likelove is stagnant too.
Totally, bro.
Like, there's some days when I'mlike, I need time to miss you.
Yeah, for sure.
Right.
Yeah.
And unless you have some shit todo.
Yeah.
But I remember like my wife usedto hate that.

(01:00:31):
Yeah.
You know, and she and I used totell her, like, hey, I just need
today, I just need time to missyou.
And she'd be like, what doesthat mean?
Are you out of falling out oflove with me?
And I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:43):
But the thing is, is that like you ever been so close
to something for so long, andthen it's like, then, you know,
like I don't know.
I like to use a differentanalogy.
So I think of like amarshmallow, right?
And how it's sticky, and that'skind of like the best part
because it's all gooey.
But then, like, if it sits therefor too long, then it loses its
luster, you know, it gets allhard, it's all gross, you know,

(01:01:06):
all that stuff.
And so I I try to equate it'sjust like, look, I'm not saying
I don't love you.
I'm not saying that this impactsanything.
Like, I just need a break.
You got to remember, I grew upliterally fending for myself
since I've been in third grade.
You know, I didn't have somebodyto hug me at the end of the day,
say you're gonna be fine.
Like, I had to do that myself.
There was a period of time whenI went almost eight years

(01:01:26):
without crying, and I know thatfucked me up too.
So, you know, if there's a daywhere I just need to miss you
for a couple of hours, come backat the end of the day and I'll
hug you.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:37):
Well, it's like hanging out.
You know, I grew up in a Mexicanhousehold, so I had cousins
coming out of every corner.
But I uh even hanging out withmy cousins, dude, like more than
like a couple days, and then wewould start fighting.
Even my mom or my parents wouldbe like, dude, you guys gotta
fuck that's time.
Yeah, it's time to stop becauseyou know you want to hang out
and then spend the night, andthen hang out all the next day
and spend the night, and then bythe third or fourth day you're

(01:01:58):
fighting and punching eachother, and you just need, I
mean, I think we strive forconnection, but I think we also
strive to be alone sometimestoo, so we can kind of process
everything and reflect andreflect and miss and things like
that.
But yeah, man, I um yeah, dude,I think that's a big issue with

(01:02:22):
the divorce rate, right?
Is that people just think loveis a feeling and it's not, dude.
I mean, yeah, it is sure, butlike at the beginning, yeah.
But I mean, I at the end of theday, dude, I think it's more of
a choice than it is a feeling ofanything.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:35):
Yeah, you know, everyone sells the fairy tale.
Yeah.
Right?
Oh, till you know, forever.
Um, this is my my person.
Um, you know, now you hear allthis situation chips, right?
Yeah, for sure.
And the the drastic change.
But you know, I think um it'sit's really hard, especially

(01:02:55):
right now.
I think I would almost like thethought of being single and
trying to figure out whatsomebody's about, because now
you gotta match not only on aphysical aspect to be an
attraction, then you gotta matchon the emotional aspect.
Now like people can't even keepfriends because of political
differences.
Um, and then your your thoughtson you know, having kids and and

(01:03:19):
vaccinations, and you know, thelist just keeps getting like
bigger and bigger and bigger,and all these people seem to
like they can't even match onone thing, much less be
compatible on several otherthings, you know, and so like um
a lot of business owners thatyou know, somebody asked me the
other day, why is there such anexplosion of AI right now?

(01:03:39):
And I said, because 70% ofbusiness owners can't offer what
they once used to, right?
Because of lack of work, becauseof people not being able to keep
up, because their reputationsuffers, because they can't keep
up with demand.
So a lot of AI was released tohelp people to get a fraction of
their time back to be able toexecute some of the things that
they once used to be able to do.

(01:04:01):
But now we're getting to thispoint where you got people in AI
relationships, and it's like youknow, I joke sometimes that AI
is my best employee because itdoesn't roll its eyes, it
doesn't get mad at me, justsays, yes, let me go ahead and
complete the task.
So I can only imagine if you'rein a toxic relationship and you
go to AI, man, that's gotta feellike a night and day difference.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:20):
Well, I think a lot of people have these
relationships with AIs becauseAIs don't have any flaws, right?
They don't have any baggage thatcomes along with the
relationship.
And I think when it'shuman-to-human interaction,
especially today's generation,they expect that other person
not to have any baggage, eventhough they do.
But how much baggage is being ofof themselves that's being

(01:04:44):
worked through, that's beingprocessed, that's bringing none
of it.
None of it.
And they're just they expect theother side, you know, when they
meet somebody else, that they'rethey don't come with any
baggage.
And every it reality is we alldo.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:59):
And what was that trend that the women were going
through?
They wanted a guy that was sixfoot tall, made six figures,
didn't have any kids.
Meanwhile, like all the all theretaliatory jokes were like that
these women have two or threekids from two or three baby
daddies.
Oh, yeah, they're on welfare andthat they're like, you know,
five foot and overweight, like,you know, um it's it's crazy.

(01:05:22):
Um, and again, like what youwant, whatever, right?
Uh, but what I'm saying thoughis like like you said, nobody's
working through this, nobody'sacknowledging, and it's almost
like um I don't know if placebois the right word, but it's like
an effect to basically put aband-aid to make you feel like
that you're you're you'reworthwhile.

(01:05:44):
And again, I'm not saying thatyou're not, but what I'm saying
is that you're not fixing andyou're not addressing the issues
or the pain.
And so that's this uh AIrelationship or this chat bot
that you're using to maybe helpovercome some of that stuff, a
lot of it is just trained tobasically be helpful in and
respond to whatever you'regiving it.
And so if you're not, you know,maybe you're not at that point

(01:06:06):
where you can be honest, andeven if you did, it's still
going to tell you the thingsthat you want to hear.
You know, so it's like we're insome ways, how is that going to
impact mental health?
Like you're giving maybe somepeople some confidence, but is
it a false confidence?
Sure.
Or are you helping people copethrough things, but maybe it's a
false cope because they've neverthey haven't done the real deep

(01:06:26):
dive work to be able to getthrough that.
So it is going to be aninteresting time frame.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:32):
Yeah, but it's moving fast too, man.
You know, I think I think AI,because I use Chat GPT quite a
quite a quite a bit, and Iactually think it helped me in
my recovery of anxiety a lot,and I'll explain here in a
second, but it's you know, Ithink it has a lot to do with
the questions that we ask it.

(01:06:53):
Just like it's the same as thethoughts that we feed our mind.
100%.
So when I'm asking chat, like,hey, like, why, like, for
example, like I wouldn't belike, hey, why do I feel this
way?
Or because it's gonna give me ageneric question, like, right?
So, you know, a lot of thethings that I started asking it
was like, hey, this is how Ifeel, this is what I ate today,

(01:07:16):
these are the supplements I'vetaken today, or these are the
supplement that like this is thethings I haven't taken today.
What are some things that I caneat or feed myself that will
help me feel better?
Because a lot of the stuff thatwe put in our body physically
comes out.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:33):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:34):
You know what I mean?
So, you know, it'd be like, oh,have a high high have something
in high protein with a littlebit of carbs and make sure you
take your vitamin D and yourvitamin C and your K2 today,
something to feed the serotoninand the dopamine inside your
body versus you know, so I thinkit's the same thing, dude, as
far as what we ask it.

(01:07:55):
That's gonna help or not help.
Yeah, right.
Something under the driver ofthe vehicle.
Yeah, for sure.
Same thing with your thoughts.
Are you feeding it negativity orare you just feeding it
positively?
Yeah, your intentions.
Yeah, for sure.
And like, like I said before, ifpeople can figure out to think
greater than they feel, becausedude, I there's so many people

(01:08:16):
out here that just feel likeshit.
Right.
And they feed it and they feedit and they feed it and they
feed it.
Yeah.
And I get it.
It's hard to think like you'vecreated an identity within
yourself that this thing is apart of you, this anxiety, this
depression, this mental illness,this OCD.
I mean, whatever, right?
How many people walk aroundsaying they have ADHD or OCD or

(01:08:39):
anxiety when it's really like,dude, just go like take the
right stuff, feed your bodynutrition.
And I'm not saying that's allthat's everything.
It's just a part of the puzzlethat's gonna help you feel
better, right?
Yeah, yeah.
And it's the same thing withyour thoughts, dude.
Are you like, what are youfeeding it?
Right.
Like, are you are you continuingto flee feed the negative

(01:09:00):
frequencies or the positivefrequencies?
You know, something you saidearlier that you know, I was
already living in hell.
Yeah, you know, that and thatsomething I've learned on my
spiritual journey in this past,you know, few years is that
biblically, I think, you know, Iand I think we touched on this

(01:09:20):
uh either last time or when wetalked afterwards, so we should
have recorded, but um was thatyou know, I think the Bible was
written to be taught parables,just like Jesus.
I don't think it was ever taken,I don't think it was ever
written to be taken literal.
Maybe some things, but I thinkfor the most part, dude, you

(01:09:42):
know, I grew up in a strongChristian household just like
you were, but I was alwaystaught to fear God, right?
That God was an angry God and Hewas a jealous God and He needed
to be worshipped and He neededall these things in order for
Him to love you.
And this is the this is one ofthe biggest things that
resonated with me during my rockbottom time was that God is not

(01:10:07):
an angry God, He's an all-lovingGod, He's not out to get you,
He's not up, He's not up therewriting down all your wrongs and
keeping track of everything.
And that was something that andyou know, you gotta fear this
devil, you have to fear thisthing.
But I think, you know, scripturewhen it said, you know, choose
life or choose death, I thinkthat means now.

(01:10:29):
I don't think it meant afterdeath, like do we choose to go
to hell or go to heaven?
Right.
I think we have a choice to haveheaven on earth here, or we can
have our hell on earth here,which you and I have both went
through.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:42):
Yeah, that was the most mind-blowing thing for me.
And I know that this is gonna belike some people are gonna be
like, duh, but you know, we'vealways had this idea that God
gives us a choice, free will,right?
And for some reason, for megrowing up, and in in my mind,
it was always like you make achoice, you deal with the action
or the consequence.
But when I first launched thisentrepreneurial journey, just

(01:11:03):
like many people do when theyleave the corporate workforce,
there's a bit of a guilt processbecause you have no idea what's
coming next, right?
And so there's guilt that, like,can I take care of my family?
Is this really the right thing?
You know, because I know Ishould, I could be working nine
to five to do all this stuff toprovide, right?
I'm losing the benefits, allthese things.

(01:11:23):
But I remember uh my firstoffice, this guy turned around
and he wrote this book on youknow law of attraction, and he's
like, you know that God givesyou a choice, right?
And I said, Yeah, free will.
And he's like, So why don't theywhy don't you think that you
have free will in terms ofchoosing how you make your
income, how you pursue life, orhow much you make, yes, and he
said it, you know, most peopleare just limited because they've

(01:11:45):
been trained to be limited.
He's like, but imagine yourselfwith endless income.
And he's like, You think thatpeople just come up with these
ideas overnight?
He's like, Some.
He's like, but most people theyhave this imagination that
they're limitless.
Yeah, he's like, that's whereall the successful people are.
They they all everybody has abad story.
But where do they end up?

(01:12:07):
And in that moment, it madesense to him, like, yeah, we do
have a free, you know, freewill.
We have a choice to make thesedecisions every single day.
And uh that blew my mind at thattime, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:19):
Yeah, for sure, man.
It's definitely, I mean, it goesback to the same thing I just
said, you know, as far asthinking greater than how you
feel.
Yeah, you're broke and you'repoor right now, and maybe that's
not your fault.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:29):
Right.
Not how you started.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:32):
But how are you gonna exactly how do you pull
yourself out of it up herefirst?
Yes, yeah.
Up here and in here.
Yeah, for sure.
You're you're your mind, bodyconnection, and your heart
coherent, right?
And it's you know, it's reallyeasy, and something I've been
working on is it's really easyto picture the worst case
scenario.

(01:12:53):
But if we can picture the worstcase scenario, we can picture
the most the best case scenario,right?
But our mind's so trained toautomatically go to the negative
part of things that it's hard,it's that that's a hard thing to
unlearn and then relearn.
Right, right, you know, and evenstill, dude, I'm like, I catch
myself, but that's the thing isthat I catch myself.

(01:13:14):
Yeah, I'm aware of it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:15):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:17):
Most people aren't aware of anything, they're just
going around reacting toeverything.
Yeah, they're they're living ina um, what was that thing I saw
the other day?
It was perspective versusperception, right?
And um it it just it it just itit creates a light that like, oh

(01:13:39):
okay, like I can I can think myway out of this.
You know, like the movie Lucy,have you seen Lucy with Shark
Scarlett Johansson?
Um or Limitless with uh whetherthey take the pill or whatever,
kind of the same thing.
It's kind of honestly the samemovie, just different.
But you know, like what can howcan we just like how can we

(01:14:02):
remove the negative ideology andreplace it with positive with
positive fault just by beingaware of it and then just
flipping the script when you'rethinking a negative thought,
just be like, oh, I don't needto be thinking about that, let's
do this instead.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:19):
Well, and I think something that's really crazy,
um, and I I I never believedthis during this time, but you
know, I've told you I used tolive stream for years, and then
my whole community kind of mademe to be this positive person.
At one point they were saying,Oh, this is the most positive
person on Twitch.
And uh I remember somebody hadtold me, they're like, you know,
it's hard to carry that burdenfor such a long period of time,

(01:14:41):
and oftentimes the people whoare the most positive have the
hardest crashes or the hardestdownfalls.
I never thought that wouldhappen to me.
And the whole reason why I don'tstream today is be basically
because I had a hard crash and Icould never face uh myself to to
turn the mic uh and the cameraback on to do it all over again.

(01:15:01):
And um, you know, so it'sinteresting because also on the
flip side of that, people thatgo through some of the worst
things, right?
We've heard this over and overagain, turn out to be the most
successful because when yourback is against the wall, you
have to figure out what thatlooks like.
How many businesses didn't havea dime left, how many p people

(01:15:22):
were, you know, uh getting readyto be kicked out, and then the
one thing happens or you know,they failed all their life and
all of a sudden the one thingwas successful.
So you know, there is no scriptfor how life can go.
But you know, if you don't havea plan, if you don't have the

(01:15:43):
ability to, like you said, thinkfor yourself and and be
conscious, then it's almost likeyou're letting it auto play, and
who knows what the outcome isgonna look like.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:52):
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:02):
I know we're not the same people we were yesterday,
much less 10 years ago, 15 yearsago, right?
But it's when you look back onkind of where you've been to
where you're at, you know, Ithink the most important thing
is you want your past to beproud of its future.
You know, that concept and thatimage in my mind has always kind

(01:16:23):
of been like, you know,obviously you don't want to
stare too far ahead, you don'twant to stare in the back, you
want to kind of be have your youknow be where your feet are.
But I think when you look backon some of those things to see
what you've gone through, wouldit would you be would your old
self be able to turn around andlook at you and give you a hug
and be like, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:42):
You know what I mean?
I think that's an importantthing about mental mental
illness.
I hate say I hate saying that.
Every time I say it, I'm like,what like why why am I saying
mental illness?
But is I remember this one dude,I was in the shower, dude.
I was still kind of in the inthe in the deep like the bottom
depths of my, you know,whatever.

(01:17:03):
And I just remember having aconversation with little me and
just being like, hey dude, it'sgonna be okay.
Like we're, you know, like Ithink that's really important to
do as far as a healing a part ofyour healing journey is talk to
that little boy or that littlegirl that was in that fight or
flight mode, and just be like,hey, and just comfort and you

(01:17:26):
know, be that safe place forthat person.
It's weird how like what isthat?
You know what I mean?
Like, what is that like usreflecting on us as little
children and saying, hey, likeit's gonna be okay.
Like what like what do you thinkthat is?

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:45):
You know, I think it's uh closing the doors,
closure.
You know, I remember uh goingthrough that where I had to hug
my inner child through a therapysession one time, and it was
crazy because the concept neverhad no idea it was coming, had
no idea that that was a thing.
But I remember almostimmediately after hugging that

(01:18:06):
inner child, you know, through atherapy session, closing the
door to be able to say it's okayto move on, for that inner child
of me to say I'm good, to knowthat I was that that portion of
me was safe, that I could moveforward.
Oh man, felt like boulderscoming off of my body.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:22):
Yeah, but what do you think that is in your brain
that's that's like holding on tothat hurt and it needs you to
comfort it?

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:28):
I think it's holding on to that deepness, right?
That the thing that's so heavythat we like I said, you either
tuck it away or you try to makelogical sense of it.
And I think it's basically justgiving you a closure to say, you
know what, this part of youryour life is good.
You're you can move forward now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:42):
Yeah, I feel like there should be some type of
machine, which I'm sure it'scoming.
That's like, hey, this is whatyou're dealing with, and this is
in your subconscious mind, andthis is what's this is what's
causing the struggle in youright now.
Yeah, let's let's fix it thisway or let's imagine it this way
or whatever, you know.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:02):
Well, and and who knows, right?
I mean, a lot of people wouldargue that maybe psilocybin is
that or ayahuasca, you know.
Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:09):
I was gonna touch on mushrooms for sure.
I think that definitely opensthe doorway to dealing with
stuff that you never realizedyou had to deal with.
Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:19):
You know, and we talked about mushrooms for quite
a while last time, but uh Ithink it's interesting just to
kind of see you know thedifferent processes and the
different stories, you know, andagain, um, you know, I can't
remember if it was you or Aaronthat basically said, you know,
maybe there's a reason why it'sbeen safeguarded, you know, um,
and and been uh not open to thepublic personally for a long

(01:19:41):
time, you know.
Control.
Yeah, yeah.
So who knows?
You know, at some point, youknow, I mean, we know where
we're at now, and you know,people are getting more and more
useful idea of a lot of naturalmedicines.
And so it'll be interesting tokind of see where all that
happens.
And you know, we live in thisweird space right now where
we're getting more and moretechnologically advanced to an

(01:20:04):
you know an unprecedented levelthat we've never experienced
before, right?
Before we used to go to Googleor YouTube University and we had
to watch somebody.
Now it's like in real time,here's the stuff.
But then also at the same time,we're getting more and more away
from some of the stuff thatwe've been reliant on, these
chemicals, the all the things inour foods now that are coming
out, you know.
Um, so it's a weird time framebecause we're getting more

(01:20:27):
natural, but we're getting moretechnology heavy.
Um, and what is that going tolook like in the next couple of
years?

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:33):
Yeah, that is weird.
I think I heard it on Rogan orsomething that kids are more now
conscious about what they'reputting in their body than they
were 10 years ago.
Right.
You know, when I was a teenageror whatever, you know, we were
just eating everything andanything all the time.
And yeah, um, but kids are goingto the gym more.
I don't know what that is, butyou're absolutely right, dude.

(01:20:54):
It's like we're our ourtechnological is our technology
is getting more and moreadvanced, and then I don't know,
maybe that has to do withsomething with each other,
right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:04):
Yeah, I I have a thing, you know, maybe maybe
it's the education.
So um, yeah, there's there's somany things that are happening
right now, and man, I know likeit's crazy because our time goes
so fast every every week, everyepisode.
And uh the good news is that uhwe'll be able to keep doing
this, but you know, I think thatfor today that's gonna be our

(01:21:25):
time.
And um, man, this has been Iknow we're only two episodes in,
but this has been so refreshing.
And I think that if we go backto our mission of why we started
this, is so that way we couldhave deep and honest thoughts,
but also paint that awarenessfor other men to know that they
can have outlets just like this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:46):
Absolutely, dude.
I I couldn't agree more, man.
And I I love this for us.
Um, you know, Aaron, thanks,man, for everything that you do.
And thank you.
Um I just think it's gonnacontinue continue to grow, dude.
And I think it's gonna be agreat um outlet for men, women,
kids.
I mean, maybe not, I don't know,maybe not kids.
I'll talk about some stuff.

(01:22:08):
But I don't know, dude.
Who knows?
I mean, the way the the world'sgoing, man, it's like we got to
treat 12-year-olds like18-year-olds now, you know.
So yeah, um, but just know thatthere's a there's a place to be
safe, dude.
And I think this is gonna be itfor a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:21):
Yeah, and uh guys, if you are tuning in, um if
there's anything that resonatedwith you, please reach out.
We'll have our contact info inthe show notes.
And um, you know, I think uhafter this episode, we're gonna
start going to video as well.
So really excited uh about that.
And um we'll also have anewsletter for you guys to sign

(01:22:42):
up uh and an email list as well,so that way you can ask
questions and we can get thoseinto the show.
But uh again, this has beenanother great episode of mental
mentality.
And uh, you know, signing offtoday, uh, I'm Patrick Marikami.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:55):
Hell yeah, Brandon Hickman.
See you later.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:58):
Catch you guys on the next one.