Episode 3

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
What's up guys?
Welcome to another episode ofMental Mentality.
I'm Patrick Murakami.

SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
Brandon Hickman.

SPEAKER_02 (00:08):
Week three, man.
Um well I guess episode threerather.
Yeah.
How you feeling?

SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
The f for the about the podcast or about in life?
Both.
I'm fucking exhausted.
But the podcast is great, dude.
I love it, man.
I love doing it with you.
And Aaron back there is killingit too.
Yeah.
But uh yeah, man, I'm excited tobe here.

SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Took us a minute, but here we are.

SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
Yeah, well, it seems like it takes a minute every
week, but that's alright.
Um no, I'm excited.
You know, I feel like that thisis a good safe haven for me.
And uh even when I'm tired,coming to be able to do this
because we know the mission isbigger than that, you know,
bigger than us.

SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, it feels like for me, man,just uh even like even like
beating all the stigmas andshit, right?
Like I just feel like talkingwith you guys just makes me feel
just makes me feel better.
You know what I mean?
Like I just feel good after Ileave, I feel energized.
Um I you know, haven't you know,I haven't slept well for a

(01:06):
couple days because of you knowwhat I was talking about
earlier, but you know, I justfeel like I come here and I just
feel like like a weight's beenlifted off my shoulders, you
know what I mean?
I don't know what that is,whether I'm just getting my
getting stuff off my chest orjust the the the act of uh the
act of service type thing, youknow.
So yeah, man, happy to be herealways.
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
And we officially launched our Facebook page and
uh other socials are coming.
Uh we've got two episodesuploaded, but just not uh
available to the public yet.
So uh by the time that you guyshear this, obviously it will be
available.
But I'm excited for that.
And you know, just kind oftalking about the premise of
what we're doing.
I've had so many other guys turnaround and say, you know, that's

(01:50):
much needed.
Even women say, you know what,this is a great platform.
We need this.
Um, you know, uh I know a lot ofveterans who could benefit from
something like that, or ifyou're looking for guests, you
know, we have some people.
So I'm really excited from thataspect as well to know that it's
not just men who are supportingthis, it's families, it's women,
um, it's mothers, it's uhsisters, you know, um and

(02:13):
daughters who are turning aroundand say, My father um really
needs to listen to this.
So as soon as you get that out,please let us know.
So I'm really excited that toknow that there is genuinely a
want for this type of podcast.

SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
Yeah, for sure.
I'm super excited, man.
I think it's gonna help a lot ofpeople.
I think we're gonna grow really,really fast.
Um, not just because of thepeople that we know, but um, you
know, I think because you grewup here, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, we both grew up here, weboth know a lot of people, and I
think it'll be uh um just not itwon't I don't I don't foresee
this just being like in ColoradoSprings, right?

(02:47):
I feel this being worldwide, umnationwide, whatever.
I feel it growing reallyquickly.

SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
I think there's well, and maybe this is we just
get right into it, like there'sso many stigmas around men's
mental health.
Um, in one of our local Facebookgroups, somebody had uh posted
saying, I feel like that men'smental health month got bypassed
this year.
There was you know no talksabout it.

(03:14):
And of course the immediaterebuttal was why do men need a
month for mental health?
We as women and single women gothrough all this stuff, and
somebody was like, you know,it's the same month as uh the
LGBT community and all thesethings.
And so it's like even just tohave a presence, there's always
maybe a battle already there,right?
And I'm again, I'm not sayingthat it's maybe more deserving

(03:37):
than the other one, but wedefinitely there's not a single
comment.
I didn't see anybody anything onmy timeline at all from anybody
saying anything.
So it's kind of weird that umthat even though we have all of
these materials that we've neverhad before, that we still don't
have any awareness as m youknow, and that's a weird place

(03:58):
to be because people still don'twant to come forward, people
still don't want to talk aboutit.
It's still considered to betaboo.

SPEAKER_01 (04:05):
Yeah, for sure.
You know, I think it comes downto like a state of even like
feeling guilty because they'retrying to put themselves first
when they have a family toprovide for or bills to pay or
whatever, or it comes down toshame where they feel shameful
because of what they wentthrough or some addiction that
they came out of, right?
Because you know, some addictionleads to some type of mental
health disorder or whatever.

(04:25):
But um, you know, even for guysin the military, dude, like they
saw, and I've never been, you'venever been, so I don't I can't
speak for what they've seen overthere, but I can't even imagine
like seeing my best friend getblown up next to me.
But like also after it's done,like it's done, and we're just
told to again pick ourselves upby the bootstraps and keep

(04:46):
going.
And we never really especiallyas men, we don't ever really
like take the time to processand handle it.
So then what does that do?
It's an energy, it's an emotionthat gets stored in our body
that tends to try and likevenom, right?
Like tries to work itself out,and the way it works itself out

(05:06):
is PTSD, depression, anxiety,addiction, things like that.
And then going talking about theawareness part.
You know, I've said this before,so excuse me if I sound like a
broken record, but most peopleare walking around this earth
not aware of anything.
They just think that who theyare and what they feel is what
it is, and there's nothing thatanybody can do about it.
Here's a bunch of medication,deal with it.

(05:29):
Yeah, sure, that puts a band-aidon it, but let's get down to the
root cause and figure out whyyou're having these feelings,
why you feel the way that youfeel, and you know, how do we
how do we make you feel betterso you can lead a life worth
living to where you don't haveto feel like you have to commit
suicide or be alone or you know,whatever that whatever that

(05:49):
looks like for that specificperson.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
And I can't recall if we talked about this live uh
in a recording, but there's uhalso an identity loss that
happens, right?
Uh especially in married men.
So we I don't know if we talkedabout this or not, but married
men who go through divorce, Ithink it was um what I say, one
in twenty or something likethat.

(06:13):
Um high percentage thatbasically end up dead because
they have no identity, becausethey think their life is over.
And you know, uh I was once toldthat women think kind of like
spaghetti.
You can mix all kinds of stuffand they just kind of like they
can process, they can knock outall the tasks all at once, and
they they can kind of do it alltogether.

(06:36):
But for us guys, we kind ofthink one square at a time, like
a waffle.
Yeah, exactly.
And so, you know, we can't thinkof everything, and the minute
you start pouring other stuff ontop of it, it's like overload.
Yeah.
But you know, when you are inlike as a business owner, we
wear many different hats, right?
You've got your marketing,you've got your sales, you've
got the business, you've got,you know, your accounting,

(06:57):
you're responsible for employeesand training, customer service,
right?
All those different aspects.
And then you go home and youthink it'd be easy to just turn
that off and then just have thethe couple of hats for being a
dad or being a husband orwhatever, but it's weird because
it's almost easier to wear allthose other hats than come home
and just have the one or twohats.

SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (07:19):
And that like blows my mind because I'm like, how?
How is that harder?

SPEAKER_01 (07:23):
Yeah.
Yeah, dude, I mean you're right,dude.
I mean, I I really have a hardtime thinking about everything
all at one time.
And um I don't I don't reallyknow how to like explain to a
man how not to do that.
I just think that's like goesback to like tribal days, right?

(07:45):
Where we were just ourresponsibility was to hunt and
gather, and that's what we did,and then protect.
Yeah, and protect, yeah,absolutely, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (07:53):
Yeah, it's it's an interesting uh concept of all
that, you know, and they talk alot about chemical imbalance,
right?
And so of course we've heard thethe terms toxic masculinity and
and all these things.
But what's interesting to me isthat why is it okay for women to
be unbalanced, for them to playthe dual role, right?

(08:17):
But then they expect guys towell, I guess guys expect guys
to just be okay with theunbalanced piece.

SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
Yeah, I mean that is a little weird.
I mean you go back to and that'sjust something that you and I
have both heard from Oh man, I'mjust and and don't take don't
take offense to this, but youknow, oh I'm on my period, I
just you know, like it is whatit is, and that's just an that's
just an expectation that likeokay, my wife is it's her time
of the month and she's herhormones are all over the place,

(08:48):
and she's having a chemicalimbalance and in her dopamine,
her serotonin, and and her umher uh what is it uh tryptophan
or the uh not tryptophan, thelove hormone.
What is that?
Oh I don't know.
Do you do you know anywho?
Um and that's just expect it,right?

(09:10):
Like it's just okay, like giveher some time, get her some
food, like whatever, you know?
Like why like why is it like itwas always funny, like I just
need some chocolate.
Well that raises dopamine andserotonin, you know what I mean?
So but like as a man, dude, Imean, yeah, why why is it why I
feel like sometimes I have myown time of the month, you know

(09:31):
what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 (09:31):
Where I'm like my wife swears guys have their time
of the month too.

SPEAKER_01 (09:35):
Oh, dude, I'm super irritable, I'm pissed off, I'm
tired, I got a headache, I wantto sleep, I want to eat a bunch
of shit, I want to sit on thecouch and smoke weed and binge
watch some shows and eat somejunk food, you know.
And um, you know, I think that'swhat's most important though, is
like even if you don't want tospeak out about it, you gotta
take the time to kind of letyourself unwind and heal, right?

(09:57):
Because I feel like as men, andmaybe that's the reason is that
we're always expected to go, go,go, go, and we never really take
the time to just right and justbreathe through it, you know.
So I don't know, dude.
I don't know the answer to that,and I'm sure you don't either,
but I don't know why the reasonthat that stigma is based off of
one gender and not the other,and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (10:17):
It's just interesting, you know, when you
look at those things, and youknow, I feel like for me, like
the whole reason why I have anoffice is just so I can have
quiet time.
Sure.
Right?
Like, yeah, I'm more productivehere than I am working from
home.
Right.

(10:37):
And and when I first started, itwas worse because I think my
wife just assumed because I washome I could run her errands for
her business.
Yeah.
Hey, can you go get this?
Hey, can you do that?
I once had a a mentor who alsotold me that our relationships,
especially with the ones that welove, change very drastically.
And so when you first start out,everything is oh, like like your

(11:01):
your girlfriend calls you.
Hey baby, can you go to thestore and pick up this?
I I'm gonna make you yourfavorite dinner or whatever,
right?
To then your wife calling, hey,I need you to go to the store
and pick up this, this, andthis, your kids need it for
school tomorrow, right?
And so we go from like this umthis honeymood phase of asking
to this command and demand typecommunication style.

(11:23):
And then people wonder whathappened to the romance.
People are like, Well, well, youknow, you don't buy me flowers
anymore.
I'm like, Yeah, because all wehear is just the demands.
We don't hear the requestsanymore, and it changes the
dynamic, you know what I mean?
Like, I get it, people are busy.
Um, but when you look at that,you know, like there's so many

(11:44):
people where they're so used tobeing told what to do.
And I think there's a lot of menalso that are basically
comfortable, they getcomfortable hearing all those
things.
So it's definitely a huge shift,I think, when we go into the
business when we're tellingpeople what to do, to then going
home and maybe a man isbasically being told what to do,
being bossed around because youknow, when he's at the shop, he

(12:05):
gets in control.
When he's not maybe at home,maybe he's not, and there's
automatically a huge shift.

SPEAKER_01 (12:11):
Yeah, sure.
I mean, I will say, dude, me andmy wife are pretty good about
like that part of ourrelationship is really good.
I do get like I feel guiltysometimes when I'm when she
calls, because we'll likeFaceTime each other during the
day, and usually usually I'm onmy couch of my shop with my

(12:32):
computer in front of me, doingsales calls, running numbers,
trying to get more business inthe door, whatever.
And some in my and she's neversaid this, but in my own head,
I'm like, let me go walk aroundthe shop while I'm on FaceTime
so she thinks I'm like doingstuff, you know, and just
because like you're right, dude,at home, man, it's hard with the
kids, like in my face, trying tomake sales calls and trying to

(12:53):
concentrate, and wife wanting meto do stuff because like
naturally I think when I amhome, she does expect me to
change diapers and make cloth ormake food and things like that,
and just when I'm at the shop, Idon't have to do any of that.
I'm just I'm I'm dialed intowhat I need to be doing as a
business owner, and that's whatI'm doing.
But as far as like being bossedaround and stuff, I mean I

(13:15):
definitely see that in otherrelationships.
But for me, dude, I think thecommunication part is the
biggest thing too, like,especially with men's mental
health, man, just talk to her.
Like if and it doesn't, if itdoesn't, if you guys can't have
that conversation as a coupleand really being like, hey, I
really don't like how you talkto me that way.
I prefer you to like I'll alwayssay yes, but like also just ask

(13:37):
me, don't demand me.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, can you please do this?
Can you please do that?
And I I feel like me and my wifeare very, very strong in that.
I mean, we've been together for10 years, dude.
We have to find the the themiddle ground somewhere as far
as like you know, but I mean Ido get like I've seen other
couples where they're likebarking orders at each other and
they bicker all the time.

(13:58):
And um but then is the man justsupposed to just cower down and
just ex ac ac you know acceptthat?
Right.
I mean I don't think so, but youknow, that comes down to the
communication part of things ofbeing in a relationship and
having but I also think it goesboth ways.
Like if I if you expect me to ifI expect if you expect me to

(14:19):
give you flowers every Tuesday,then I'm gonna get fucking so
much hate for this.
If I'm gonna give you flowersevery Tuesday, then I expect to
have sex every week.
And that's just not somethingthat is you know, that's a very
like it's a teeter-totter, andusually it's lying one way where
like wife expects you to do onething and then it's not expected

(14:43):
on the other side of thingsbecause they don't really that
may be your need and that's myneed.
Right.
And I don't feel like it's evenright.
And that's why I really tryreally hard.
Like when I am home, I want tocook, I'll take care of my kids,
I'll take over so my wife can gohave her me time and and things
like that.
And I just I try and make it Imean my wife both try and make

(15:05):
it as even as we can so we cangrow in our relationship, right?

SPEAKER_02 (15:10):
So yeah, the communication I think is the
missing component for so manyrelationships.
And it social media doesn't makeit easy either, right?
Because everyone's playing acomparison game, everybody's
always like, Oh, well, see, herhusband did this.
I'm like, you're seeing the bestparts, right, of social media,

(15:30):
because that's what social mediateaches you.
Right?
My wife in her salon, she hearsall these stories of uh all of
the you know, the husbands, thegood, the bad, and the ugly.
Yeah.
And I'm like, you know, I'm nothim.
Yeah, right?
Which is comparison, dude.

SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
Yeah, you shouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_02 (15:43):
Yeah, yeah.
But it what's also nice thoughis that you kind of hear some of
the worst things and you'relike, man, I'm glad that we
don't have that.
I'm glad that we can we'vetalked about that.
We we align and those things.
But that's really like thebiggest thing is that you find
that most couples stop talking.
And they stopped talking a longtime ago.

SPEAKER_01 (16:03):
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (16:04):
You know, and then they became tolerating.

SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
Right.
I mean, what does that come downto?
I mean, as a as kids, and I doit as a parent, I really try not
to, but like my four-year-old'sin her why stage, and it fucking
drives me nuts.
Everything I ask her, it's awhy, and it's my response is
always because I told you to,right?
So, I mean, does that do youthink that has anything to do
with as we grow up?

(16:26):
Like, that's just what like whatsince we were born to the day we
were in grade school to middleschool to high school.
Uh huh.
Do what you're told.
Right.
I mean, how much of that doesbut that's not necessarily
supposed to transform intorelationship, right?
But we carry those things into arelationship of like, oh, I'm
supposed to be told, I'msupposed to do what I'm told on
both ends of the spectrum, notjust men listening to women, but

(16:49):
women listening to men.
Right.
But like, you know, off tan, Imean not really off tangent, but
speaking about women, realquick, why do women stay with
men that beat them?
Right.
You know, it's because theythink they can change them.
Yeah, for sure.
Think they think they can changethem, and also like, oh, he
loves me.
I'm just you know, I'm justsupposed to be doing what I'm
told, and that goes both ways.

SPEAKER_02 (17:09):
Yeah, you know, well and they're they're used to the
abuse in some way, shape, orform, right?
Oftentimes.
But it's funny because you werebringing that up, and this
there's an old I guess it youknow, it's probably still pre
prominent today when people say,Oh, couples are supposed to
fight, right?
It's healthy for people tofight.
And and I would agree to acertain extent, uh, arguments,

(17:33):
you know, from time to timeblowing off steam, but a lot of
people cross that line wherethey say things that they're not
supposed to, they say thingsthat are hard to recover from.
That is definitely far fromhealthy, right?
But how many of us grew up withparents covering that up to say,
no, it's healthy for us to beable to do that and get this
out?

(17:53):
But I'm like, you're literallylike punching dad in the face,
you told two seconds ago, how isthat healthy?
Yeah, you know, or you know,you're you're throwing things
and and you're breaking thingsaround the house, that's not
healthy.
But you know, there's this oldstigma that parents have
basically said to kind of sweepit under the rug for the kids.
You know.
But um anyway, I w I want tohighlight on something that uh

(18:17):
is actually when we first talkedabout doing this podcast.
Uh you had posted, I remember, Ibelieve it was a Facebook post
where you talked about basicallywith your daughter and how
sometimes like, you know, weoftentimes just kind of sweep
what they're saying under therug instead of just answering

(18:37):
the question.
So yeah, I I get it, the whypiece, right, in that phase.
But you had also talked abouthow it was important to take
that time to maybe answer thosequestions, right?
And so walk us through that alittle bit because I know we all
go through that as parents whereit's like we spend, I think the
saying, right, is you spend thefirst couple of years trying to

(18:58):
get them to talk, and you spendthe rest of their life trying to
get them to shut up.
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Um I don't remember that post, but I'm sure I don't
I don't doubt it.
Definitely something I I feellike I should have said, but or
I I would have said.
But um I guess what I meant bythat is you know, even like
because I have all ages, right?
I have two-year-old,four-year-old, and a
twelve-year-old.
And my four-year-old's in herwhy stage, my two-year-old

(19:23):
doesn't say much still.
Um, and then my twelve-year-oldum is just and she's just a
twelve-year-old, you know, andand a twelve-year-old female.
And um, as far as answeringquestions and just taking the
time to answer the whyquestions, other than you know,
because I told you so, likethey're trying like especially

(19:44):
for the four-year-old, likeshe's just trying to figure out
her place in the world, right?
She's trying to figure out whyhow stuff works, why it is the
way that it is, and I'm reallytrying to make sure that she
doesn't grow up with a the samementality that I grew up in,
right?
Like, I'm really trying to makesure that she is like
free-spirited, she'sfree-minded, she has her own

(20:04):
thoughts, she has her ownfeelings, she has her own, you
know, I don't want her to bebased off of that, you know, but
like after the a millionth whyfor the day, I'm like, just
fucking do it, dude, because Itold you to, that's why.
You know, and then as far as my12-year-old, I just, you know,
she is starting to like boys,she's starting to um, you know,
find her place in the world asyou know, as she's transforming

(20:28):
from a little girl to a teenagerand then to a woman, right?
And it for me to take the timeas a father to make her
understand or help her throughwhy things happen the way that
they happen, right?
And um, you know, like you know,not uh last week my wife had my

(20:50):
wife had surgery and she had apartial hysterectomy, and it
wasn't a big deal.
I mean, women have it all thetime and survival rate is very
high, and you know, my my my12-year-old was just super
irritable, super mean to hersisters, and like just like just
not really acting herself.
So I kind of you know I took thetime to go and ask her, like,
hey, like what is going on?
Well, she has this likementality that like every time

(21:14):
something is gonna happen, likea surgery, or we leave on a long
road trip, or that we're gonnadie, right?
We're not gonna come back home.
And um, just really I'm nottrying to get off tangent here,
but or off topic here, but justreally taking the time to
explain like one death is a partof life, but two, like, also
like and I've said this before,but like you are just having in

(21:36):
truth uh intrusive thoughts thatare making you feel some type of
way in your body because that'sthat's the way the mind and the
wine-body connection works,right?
So um, I mean, I guess that'sreally it, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
I don't I don't really remember why I posted
that or what you know what, butI think it was just uh if I rem
recall correctly, it wasbasically just uh I think it was
your probably your four-year-oldwhere you basically realized
that she was just um likeoftentimes parents try to hurry,
right?
Because they're on theirtimeline, that they're on their
schedule.
Yeah, sure, sure.

(22:10):
And then you're saying that howyou felt a little bit guilty,
but you also, you know, asparents, we should pause, right?
And remember that like itthey're not on a timeline, and
so to be rushed suddenly, right?
And all those types of things.
So it was important to basicallytry and pause in the moment.
Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
You know, to me, man, kids are very um,
especially between that age oflike two and six, I would feel
like they're very um they'revery uh they're very conscious,
they're very aware, they're verythey're they're taking
everything in, right?
That's their time where theirbrain is is taking as much in as

(22:47):
they possible as possible.
And you know, us as adults, wesee this busy world and we're
always go, go, go.
And you know, it just really I'mreading the book.
Have you ever read the book ThePower of Now?
Um no, I think it's okay.
Great book, and it's talkingabout presence right now and
just being present.
Okay, and um a lot of us justaren't present.

(23:08):
We're always thinking about shitthat happened in the past or
what's gonna happen next, or youknow, how am I gonna get my
bills paid or how am I gonnaraise my kids or whatever?
And um, I think a big thing,especially just as a man that
owns his own business, has has acouple jobs to provide for his
family, and just something thatkeeps me sane is like when I am

(23:28):
I just feel the most free when Iam present, and that's just in
in general, but especially withmy kids, you know, whether
they're playing at the park orplaying um, you know, or whether
it's coloring or just taking thetime really just to spend time
with them outside of the busylives we have, but also being
present in that moment, right?

(23:49):
Like, how many how many timeshave I even like I'm doing
something with my kids, but inthe back of my head, I'm not
there, right?
You know, like being a presentfather isn't just about showing
up, right?
It's about being present whenyou do show up, yeah.
Right?
And so that's my biggest thing,dude.
And I I I just you know, therewas one time where my kids, my

(24:13):
kid wanted, and it was just meand her.
She I want she wantedChick-fil-A, and she wanted to
go eat inside.
And I was like, no, we gotta, wegotta go do this, we gotta go do
that, we gotta do that.
And she kind of like lost hershit a little bit, and just like
as a four-year-old, she threw alittle tantrum.
It was like, well, why can't wejust go inside and eat?
I just and I had to like take astep back and just be like, she
just wants to spend time withme.
Because that's her like I'm herpride and joy, and that's like I

(24:37):
I am what she looks up to, andshe just wants to spend time
with me.
So instead of I got out of thedrive-thru, and I think that's
actually when I posted that.
We went inside, and we just tookthe time and it just made her
world, dude.
Right, and all I had to do wasput something on pause that
really didn't need to happenright away.
Sure.
And in the grand scheme ofthings, nothing really needs to

(24:59):
happen right away, right?
Right?
I mean, does that meeting haveto happen right now?
Yeah, I mean, sure, we want tomeet we want to be professional
and make sure that we're we'rethere on time or whatever, but
um, I don't know where I wasgoing or what I was doing.
I think honestly, there was atimeline in my head that we had
to be somewhere, and it wasn'tnecessarily somewhere that we
had to be.

(25:20):
We went to Air 360 or something,you know what I mean?
In my head, we had to be thereat this time.
But if we went, if we went andgot Chick-fil-A and sat there,
we're not gonna get there on theand it's just gonna screw up my
whole day because of my own OCD,right?
Well, she doesn't have OCD, shedoesn't know I have OCD, like
she's just and in my head I hada plan, but in her head, she

(25:40):
just wanted to spend time withdad.
Right.
You know, so I think that wasthe whole thing with that, and
just just not just showing up,but also being present when you
are there.

SPEAKER_02 (25:49):
Yeah.
Well, what what I took away fromthat post is you know,
oftentimes we forget becausewe're adults now, right?
But these kids are unlockingcore memories.
And so I remember we're probablyabout Maddox is about four or
five, and uh we used to go todrifters to get burgers, and he
never really ate burgers, hejust but the the first time that

(26:11):
he did, we just popped the theback of the trunk and just kind
of sat in the back and eatingit.
And so every time that he wantedto eat a burger, he was like,
Can we, you know, open up thetrunk?
And it was like I just keptsaying no for some reason
because like we were again, wewere going home, we're doing
something, it's getting dark,whatever.
And then one time, like I saidyes, and he was like, So every

(26:32):
single time he's like, he'slike, Yes, look like you know,
it and for him it was likeassociating the burger meant
that we were gonna have thattime in in the back, and I I
didn't understand that time whyit was so important.
And so now he's like, he's like,Oh dad, let's go to Culver's,
right?
And so now he loves burgers, youknow.
But it's um you know, it's oneof those things where it's like
it started off as that corememory, and how many times did I

(26:53):
say no, not knowing that thatwas a core memory for him, and
that was something that heassociated with that, and it
took me years, right?
So I'm like, dang, how manymissed opportunities did I have
in regards to that?
Now, you know, he wants to goand he's like he's like, Oh
yeah, he's like there there's aculverse there, remember that,
so we're if we're on this sideof town or whatever, right?
But now, like, you know, momdoesn't care for the burgers as

(27:16):
much, so that's kind of ourthing.
But it's cool that it's evolvedfrom that core memory that he
had that again I didn't know,but now that I do know, you
know, it's something that we canshare.
Um, but it's that uh post thatyou had actually had kind of
taken me in introspect to beable to look at all that.

SPEAKER_01 (27:35):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, dude, I just think it'sit's important to spend time
with not just your kids, butlike your wife, going back to
the you know, spending time withyour wife and how people don't
communicate anymore.
And um just in general, dude, Ijust really think if people were
more present, they wouldn't haveso much anxiety or so much
depression.
Now, I will say that I wentthrough a time in my life where
no matter what I did, I feltlike shit.

(27:57):
Like no matter what I did, Ifelt like I was dying every day.
Right.
Not because I wanted to die, butbecause I like what was
happening inside my body, I Iwasn't in control of.
And um there was a long timewhere I wasn't present in my
kids' life, you know, and when Iwent through what I went through
as far as like my nervousbreakdown, we only had one kid
at the time, and she was five.
And I don't really remember amuch between her being five and

(28:21):
her being eight, you know,because those were the three
years where I was like in it,and I just felt like shit every
day.
And so I'm not saying thatagain, I'm not saying like pick
yourself up and just figure itout because that's not the case,
but my whole my whole reasoningaround healing was to make sure

(28:41):
that I could be present in thefuture, even though I missed out
on a couple years of my kids'life, and then even like when I
had when I had Kaya a second, Iremember holding her in the
hospital, and it was a fuckingtraumatic experience.
My wife had pre-eclampsia.
They all the my you know, mythey we had emergency C-section,
Kaya's heart rate dropped downto 40, like everything was cool,

(29:04):
calm, and collective, and thenall of a sudden there's 40
people in the in the in theroom, like we gotta get this
baby out now, or we're we mightlose both of you.
So, like, already what I'mfeeling.
Right.
And then on top of that, like,holy shit, like I'm about to
lose my kid and my wife, andthen I'm gonna be a single dad
to our older kid.
Like, you know, so trying tojuggle all that, but I remember

(29:24):
holding my kid in the nick inthe NICU, and I just didn't feel
good, right?
Like sweaty palms, racing hand,a racing mind, my body felt like
it was buzzing, like I felt likeI was just like, I just felt
sick.
And I just remember looking ather, and I just didn't I wasn't
enjoying the experience like Ifeel like I should have enjoyed

(29:45):
it.
Right?
Like having a newborn kid issupposed to be like one of the
best experiences ever.
And it ended up being that waydown the road, but at the time,
I just remember looking at herand just wishing that I could
feel good to be able to.
Enjoy the present moment, whichI wasn't able to.

(30:05):
You know, so um I just thinkthat whole the whole reasoning
behind that post was just toslow the fuck down.
Because we're always go, go, go,we're running a business, and
we're tired when we get home andwe don't want to play or we
don't want to do this, and justyou know, even I I had a I had a
life coach that said, you know,even if you took ten minutes

(30:28):
just to call her with her orjust to do whatever she wanted
to do, ten minutes and make adeal with her and say, hey,
okay, okay, like hey, let's havea long I've had a long day, but
um we're gonna get ready for bedsoon, but tell you what, I'll
I'll call her with you for tenminutes.
Well, is she gonna remember thatwhat is she gonna remember more?
Is that I came home every dayand said I have a headache and

(30:49):
I'm tired, or is she gonna comehome or is she gonna remember
that you know what, even thoughdad was tired every day, he
always made a little bit of timefor me.
And that's after after afterwork, right?
After I've had a long day orafter I leave here or whatever,
like um, you know, and I felthorrible last night.
Just a quick example is shewants I have to download this
new fishing game on my um phone.

(31:13):
Well, at night time I usuallyspend about an hour stretching
and mobility stuff, and I godownstairs and drink some tea
and just kind of just decompressand spend some time by myself
because that's I think that'svery important for men,
especially like just take sometime and just process the day or
just uh be present, you knowwhat I mean, in in being alone.

(31:36):
Well, uh she had told my wife,she said, Hey, I'm just gonna
take a little bit of a nap.
It was 10 o'clock at night,dude.
It's she's just cranky, it'stime for go to go to bed anyway.
But I n I knew she was waitingfor me.
And it wasn't like necessarilythat I didn't want to go
upstairs and play with her toplay this video game, but also I
wanted some time by myself.
And you know, she had told mywife that I'm just gonna take a

(31:56):
little bit of nap.
I'm just gonna take a small napwhile I wait for dad to come
play the game.
Well, I went upstairs and she'salready sleeping.
I just felt really you know whatI mean?
Like I just felt bad and um thatbut also I feel like I shouldn't
have felt bad, but like she'sjust like I just could have
taken ten minutes just to justto hang out with her and play
the game that she wanted toplay, right?

(32:17):
So um but yeah, dude, just goingback to just taking the time
just to slow down a little bit,yeah.
You know, touch your feet on thegrass, smell the air, smell some
roses.
I mean, yeah, you know, justshit like that.

SPEAKER_02 (32:32):
So I wanna maybe implement kind of a challenge
for people who are listening.
Um and this is just coming fromkind of this experience.
So, you know, my son was in themusical, right?
It was a high school musical,uh, you know, getting an
opportunity, and it was reallycrazy because I had no idea the

(32:53):
schedule that a show choirparent goes through or a kid in
a musical uh the practice.
And so these kids, some of thesekids, they were going to school,
they were in ROTC honorsclasses, uh, some of them were
getting ready to take some somelarge psychology test um as well
that they have to have so manyhours for.

(33:16):
And then they were doing theplay and choir and talent show
and graduation all at the sametime.
And I was like, damn, I don'tremember high school being like
that.

SPEAKER_01 (33:25):
Yeah, bro, it's a shit ton of stimulation just all
the time.

SPEAKER_02 (33:28):
Yeah, it's crazy.
Um, and so when my son got intothis, I was like, okay, you
know, I'll I'll get him in theirpractice and you know,
everything he's done golfing,boxing, football, I've never
missed a practice, right?
And that's a blessing in itselfto be able to say that.
But I thought, oh, I'll be ableto just drop him off to school
and I'll come back and I'll workfor a couple of hours and come

(33:49):
back.
And my wife's like, no, shegoes, he's too young.
I don't think that you can leavehim there.
And I think it would have beenfine, but I think really she was
like, Don't break your streak.
And so almost three and a half,four months, we went every
single day, Monday throughFriday.
Uh we had a couple of Saturdays,I think.
And so I'm working throughphone, lost a lot of production,

(34:12):
right, uh, in my business.
But I look back on it, and dude,there's certain days when I'm
just like, dang, to be able towatch this show go from nothing,
these kids didn't know thelines, they didn't know how to
dance, they didn't know anythingabout the show, to opening
night.

(34:32):
And again, it was like apre-show they had for all the
high school kids.
And I remember like crying inthe crowd, like watching all the
punchlines, watching the kidslike deliver the hear the crowd
reactions, and then openingnight, you know, to then them
getting nominated to go to thebasically it's like the Tony
Awards for high school kids andbeing able to perform on a stage

(34:53):
at the Ellie Copkins operatheater.

SPEAKER_04 (34:55):
Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_02 (34:55):
You know, it's like a s a thing that some kids in
their lifetime will never beable to see that.
And my son at 10 years old wasable to do that, right?
But I look back and I'm like,when am I gonna miss the
production that I missed out on?
Like, it doesn't matter, butthat memory is there.
Yeah, and so I thought that waslike as I look back on it, my

(35:17):
wife's like, I'm jealous thatyou were in position to be able
to go to all of those.
She goes, Because I had to work.
And when I think back and I'mlike, dang, this is exactly why
I started this in the firstplace, is to be able to have
that.
So anyway, that all that beingto say is that um I kind of have
put this challenge together, andI was thinking about this before

(35:40):
we even came, and I didn't knowif I was gonna talk about it or
not.
But I think that especially forparents, fathers out there, and
if you have to start withsomething small, three days,
five days, um, that's fine.
But my challenge is basicallysay yes to your kids, right?
For 30 days, 10 days, whateveryou can.
And it's just basically if theycome and ask you something, hey

(36:02):
dad, you want to come play this?
Hey dad, can I show yousomething?
Hey, do you you know, do youwant to check out this new
character on this new game?
Even if you don't want to, justsay yes and watch what happens.
And you're gonna see that you'realmost have like a whole
different kid because theconfidence that they have
because they know they're gonnacome to you and you're gonna say
yes.
Even if you can't mentally checkin and still be there, just by

(36:24):
saying yes, you're gonna see awhole different reaction.
Yeah, and you're gonna see awhole different kid.

SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
Golly.
I mean, to like I can thinkabout some of the questions my
kid's gonna ask me and I'm gonnasay yes to, but like be
reasonable about it, right?
Yeah, of course.
You can't paint the walls, youknow what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, but that's game.
I definitely get that for sure.
That's a great challenge, andthat's that's gonna be that's
hard, bro.

(36:50):
Yeah.
That's really hard to do.
Because I know you do that fordidn't don't you do that for oh
no, that's my buddy Tim.
He has a yes day for his kids'birthdays.

SPEAKER_02 (36:59):
Yeah, that's that's that's tough.
I guess.

SPEAKER_01 (37:01):
Yeah, for sure.
Um but that's interesting, dude.
That is a very um that is agreat challenge.
I I would love to see.

SPEAKER_02 (37:09):
Yeah, so Justin, again, I've only been doing it
for about two weeks.
But my son will say, Hey dad,can we uh can we hang out in the
Marvel room tonight, right?
So we have a whole roomdedicated to action figures,
right?
You know, buys, sells, flips,collects, whatever.
And so even if I'm don't wantto, I'm like, yes, and I drag
myself in there, right?
And sometimes I'm just sittingthere and he's just talking, and

(37:32):
I said, Yeah, like that's agreat idea.
But I'm like mentally drainedand I'm just sitting there,
right?
And then he's like, Dad, are youtired?
And I said, Yeah, a little bit,but you know, uh we still got a
couple minutes or whatever, andand again, with school starting
now, I have a little bit of aexcuse to be like, Hey, we gotta
get to get to bed, buddy.
Um, but like today, last nightwe had some friends over, you

(37:54):
know, my birthday, uh, we did adinner, and then we had uh some
friends from out of town thatwere in town, and so we were
playing uh this card game calledSwoop.
And so we always kind of playthat.
We play Parcheesy, and my sonwas like, Can we play Uno?
And we're like, Yeah, we'replaying Uno, so it's like 10
o'clock, uh nine, it's 9.30, youknow, normally he's in bed, and

(38:15):
he's like, Hey, we didn't get achance to play Uno, and I said,
Pull out the cards, we'replaying right now.
And the round went, you know,it's way past his bedtime, it's
like 10.15, and we're stillplaying the game.
And rather than just cutting itoff, I just let's just finish
the game, right?
So, you know, like letting himwin, or I'm giving him stuff and
I'm intentionally trying to liketake all the cards or whatever.

(38:37):
But for him to go to bed, andthen today we went to Target,
and he was like, Oh, look,here's the new new Uno game.
Can we buy this?
And in my mind, I'm like, Idon't want to buy this new Uno
game.
I didn't like the one that weplayed last night.
I was like, but yes.
And he's like, Can we play ittonight?
And I was like, we'll see, butif it's not tonight, this
weekend.
And so right now he's playingthis new Uno game, and he's so

(38:57):
excited to have everybody playit because our f uh friends from
out of town are still there, sothey're all playing it right
now.
And he's like, Do you reallyhave to go do this podcast?
And I said, Yes.
I was like, but I will play withyou when I get back, right?
And so I don't care to play thisUno game, right?
But I care about me committingto basically saying yes, because
I know that when I get home,he's gonna be so excited to be

(39:21):
able to do that.
You know, and somebody hadposted this the other day, it
said, you know, we think that wehave 18 summers with our kids.
He said, but the reality of itis that we maybe have 13, 14
because they at that age wherethey get to the age where they
don't really want to startspending time with us.
And if that's the case, I onlyhave like maybe three summers

(39:42):
left.
Yeah.
That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
Yeah, it goes by fairly fast, man.
Yeah.
It's really hard to own abusiness and be a husband and be
a present father and uh stillwork while we're tired and play
while we're tired and be afather while we're tired and
show up while we're tired and umbut yeah, dude, it's hard, man.
It's hard just to to live thelife that we live, and I I I

(40:08):
feel like that's why a lot ofmen need this outlet into just
because they got we have so muchshit going on all the time,
dude.
And it's like where can we goand feel like somebody else
understands what we're goingthrough?
Correct.
Right?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
So yeah, I tell people all the time, and then
this is not a knock on thosethat work a nine to five, right?
I tell people all the time Iwish I could just go be content
working a nine to five and comehome and just enjoy family time.
Yeah.
Right?
Because it's hard to shut itoff.
It's hard to leave work at work,it's hard to leave you know
family life at the um at home wand and go to work knowing that

(40:47):
you have stuff that's happening,right?
Um not that it's maybe anyharder, but there's just so many
more hats that you have to wearand deal with.
You know what I mean?
Um, but with that being said, Ialso wouldn't change anything
for the world.
I would go through all the painpoints, all the struggles to be
able to have and pick and chooseto get to do things the way that
I do.

SPEAKER_01 (41:06):
Yeah, dude, and it's really owning a business is I
always make a joke to my guysthat I want to sell Lux and just
have somebody else run it, andthen I'll just work for you from
nine to five.
Yeah.
But then also I wouldn't havethe freedom to go do to be at
practices, to, to, to leaveearly to go to um uh dance
practice or volleyball, or likethis past week has kind of been

(41:28):
like a week from hell for mebecause my wife just had
surgery, so she hasn't been ableto drive.
But then my 12-year-old startsschool at 7:15, or I'm sorry,
745, and then I gotta go openthe shop, and then I gotta come
back home, which I live I'm livelike 25 minutes from from from
my shop out in Peyton, pick upmy kid, my four-year-old,

(41:50):
because she starts preschool at1215.
So I'm only at the shop for likethree or four hours, and then I
go back to the shop, or drop mydrop my kid off of preschool, go
back to the shop, and then my12-year-old gets out at three,
and then my preschooler gets outat 3 15.

(42:10):
So I gotta run, I've been havingto run back and forth.
Um But if I worked in 9 to 5,there's no way my boss would be
like, What the fuck are youdoing, dude?
What do you mean you gotta leaveagain?
You've been here for two hours.
Right, right.
But then, you know, obviouslylike the freedom of owning a
business, you know, has itscurses and has its blessing.
Yeah, it's we have a lot, wehave to wear a lot of hats, and

(42:34):
we have to worry about the moneycoming in.
If we don't sell, who else isgonna sell for us?
If we're not bringingbusinesses, is there anybody
else bringing business in?
And but like also like I havethe freedom to pretty much go do
whatever I want to do whenever Iwant to do it.
And um But do you that's thequestion?
I definitely wouldn't change.
No, actually I do.
I I feel like I really havetransformed my business to where

(42:58):
it doesn't necessarily itdoesn't necessarily have have to
have me there for it to run.
Um and I'm really trying to takesteps away from it to not have
to be there at all.
Um just because I I don't Idon't know, I kind of want to go
do something else, you know whatI mean?
Like I love cars, I love what Ido, I love running a business, I

(43:19):
love managing people, and umthat was a big thing about
opening my business is I justwanted to affect a group a s a
group of special young men thatjust needed not to feel like
there had a toxic environment,you know what I mean, a toxic
workplace or where they feellike and all my guys, you know,
I have a couple 1099 guys thatum work at other different
shops, but they always call Luxtheir home.

(43:41):
Yeah, and that makes me feelreally good that I built a
business that can that makespeople feel good enough to like
sometimes sometimes my tinterTim, and I'll I will have him on
here eventually because um he'sgot um he's he's gone he's he's
been through a lot of stuff too,and um but I can he'll come from

(44:02):
other shops and he's just in ashitty mood, he's grouchy or
whatever, and just after 15minutes, no one can no one has
to say anything.
And just after 15 minutes, hisspirits lift.
And you know, it's really it'sreally gratifying to know that
like I did that.
Like I built that.
That culture.
I built that culture, I builtthat that camaraderie, I you

(44:25):
know, that vibe that's in there.
And um, and it took me a longtime to get there, dude.
I wasn't I wasn't always thebest business owner.
I would blow up and cuss and anduh fire people on the spot
because of whatever, you knowwhat I mean?
And it really took me a lot ofhealing in within myself to
understand like I don't have tobe like that, you know what I

(44:46):
mean?
It doesn't have to be a toxic,and it wasn't a toxic
environment, but I didn'tnecessarily have to react the
way I reacted.
Right.
Right.
So um sorry we kind of switchedgears there, but no, that's
okay.

SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
Yeah, you know, it's important.
So when you do take that R and Ror that time for yourself, you
know, what are some of thethings that you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 (45:08):
You know, I I think I've I think I mentioned this
before, but I was a I was a yesman for a long time, people
pleasing, um really focused onhow other people looked at me
rather than how I looked atmyself.
So um really to start healingfrom a lot of the things that I
was going through, and I'll goover some symptoms here in a

(45:29):
minute if if we have some time,but um just little things like
just taking the time to go outto eat and sit by myself, right?
And just not think aboutanything and just be there, you
know, be and just live, right?
Um getting massages, going toand um um taking the time to

(45:54):
reflect and meditate and stretchat night time and just taking,
you know, listen to some somemusic or some Alan Watts, some
philosophy shit or whatever, orreading a book or taking the
time just to sit in the darkwith a cup of tea and just
digress.
Digress and just but like alsojust what I've learned is just
to be there.
Yeah, you know what I mean?

(46:14):
Don't I I I didn't try and fixanything.
I wasn't trying to processanything, I wasn't trying, I was
just being, yeah, you know, andI think that's really important
to anybody that's strugglingwith anxiety or depression,
because what do most people do?
They fight it.
Why do I feel like this?
How do I get out of it?

(46:35):
How do what do I what can I doto fix it?
Right.
This sounds really likecounterintuitive, but just
embrace it.
You know, and and but embrace itas the observer, not the and and
try not to identify with it.
And that that's something that Ithat's something that I focused
on a lot was just trying to notidentify myself with anything

(46:56):
that was going on, but just totry and observe as the observer,
right?
Like, because that's what weare.
We're just observing theemotions and the thoughts that
are happening.
We're not we're not thosethings, yeah.
So um, but I mean, like, thissounds silly as a guy, probably,
but like taking a bath, dude.
Like, let me just take a bath,warm bath, let me throw some

(47:17):
Epsom salts in there and justfucking chill out, you know what
I mean?
So um that's a low-key tacticfor real.
Yeah, for sure, dude.
It is.
I mean, just just taking a bathand just um breathing and just
being present, dude, you knowwhat I mean?
And that really has helped me umheal.

(47:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (47:39):
Before we get to these symptoms, yeah, I I want
to put this out there.
A lot of people when they'regoing through depression, they
try to absorb it and own italmost as if it's a part of
them.
Yeah.
But I tell people, treat it likea cold, treat it like a virus.
Know that it's gonna come out ofyour system, but how long it

(48:00):
stays in your system is basedupon you.
Right?
But if you treat it almost thatit's an illness that if you
treat it correctly, it can goaway.
Right.
And I'm not saying it, you know,that you can't get sick again,
right?
For sure.
You know, people catch coldsevery year.
But if you treat it as such andyou think about it as such, then
you know that it's temporary.

(48:20):
Yeah.
You know that you can overcomeit.
It takes maybe more work than ageneral cold.
It takes more work because it'smental.
But when you think of it thatway, then it becomes a little
easier to overcome.

SPEAKER_01 (48:32):
Yeah, uh definitely, dude.
I I it's very hard for people tobecause we're never taught that,
right?
We're never no one ever taughtus that we're not our thinking.
Uh those random thoughts thatcome in our head that are like
horrific, right?
Like we all have them.
Um but most people identify withit because they think that most

(48:55):
people think that their thoughtsand their being and everything
is the identity of who we are,right?
This is just who I am, and thisis just how I feel.
This is the disease that I have.
Um, you know, I don't want toget too crazy and I'm freak
people out, but you know, Ithink that goes with anything,
man, from from cancer tofibromyalgia to depression,

(49:16):
anxiety.
I mean, if it's the right withthe right mentality, I mean the
mind-body connection's crazy,dude.
I mean, it can heal anything.
Yes.
And it can.
Yeah.
But what is what is what doeseverything tell us that we that
we can't do?
We can't heal.
We have to remain sick, we haveto continue to take in these
drugs to make us feel better.
Um, we have to do this, this,and this.

(49:37):
We have to go to therapy, wegotta talk about it.
Sure, all those things areimportant, sure.
But what comes down to it isthis.
I mean, there's a reason why theplacebo effect works.
Yes.
There's a reason why a sugarpill is better than the actual
ingredient that's gonna make yousupposed to feel better, but
this one's gonna come along witha bunch of symptoms, and this
one's just gonna make you feelbetter, even though you're just

(49:57):
taking a sugar pill.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (50:00):
Thinking of all those commercials, man.

SPEAKER_01 (50:01):
Yeah, dude, the mind over matter is so crazy.
But then, like, what do mostcommercials for drugs do is
people playing and they're happyand and they're throwing the
football outside and they'regoing down the water slide, and
they make it seem like, oh, if Itake this drug, it's gonna make
me feel better.
Well, sure, it's gonna make youfeel better, but what happens

(50:22):
when you stop taking that drug?
You're right just back where youwere.

SPEAKER_02 (50:25):
Side effects may include nausea, heartburn,
death.
Yeah, they just throw death likein the suicide stuff, like it's
nothing like, oh yeah, you know,by the way, some people
experience this.
Um yeah, it's really crazy umwhen we think about that.
Um Aaron, I want to talk aboutthis real quickly, and then

(50:48):
we'll have Brandon kind of gothrough some of these symptoms
that we talked about.
Um you remember the first Jokermovie that came out with Joaquin
Phoenix a couple years ago?

SPEAKER_01 (50:57):
Yeah, I did.
Um great men's mental healthmovie, by the way.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (51:02):
I mean, and so this was something that Aaron and I
had talked about, and I waslike, I feel like that this was
better than the Heath LedgerJoker.
And I said that not in terms oflike him playing the Joker
better, I just thought that somany more people resonated.

SPEAKER_01 (51:18):
Yeah, it was more realistic of an actual men's how
men's thinking works.

SPEAKER_02 (51:23):
And I remember Aaron replying to me saying, Isn't it
sad though?
Yeah.
That that's why he was such agood joker, is because so many
people resonated with it.
Do you remember thatconversation?
And it kind of took me back bysurprise because I was like,
dang, why?
Like, why do we have to resonateto be a villain to feel like

(51:47):
that we're understood?
And that part was like the partthat really hurt me, I think, as
a guy, to realize that we don'tembrace the people that are
willing to teach us.
Nobody teaches us to be great.
People only teach us how torecover from failure, people
only teach us how to bounceback, right?
How to be maybe resilient whenyou're going through some shit.

(52:10):
But nobody actually teaches youwhat it's like to actually go
through and be great from thevery beginning or to take that
feeling and realize that you cansustain that.
Right.
And to me, that blew my mindwith everything is like, so when
you asked me to do this, I'mlike, absolutely, because we
need to change that and shiftthat, you know, for especially
for our kids, but businessowners, right?

(52:30):
You have a social responsibilityto take care of your employees.
And whether it's temporary thatthey're gonna be there, whether
they're gonna be there for along time, I tell my team,
however long I have you, my goalis to help shape you for
whatever comes next, right?
You may be a business ownersomeday, you may use this skill
set for something else.
You you you could go off and andbe go home and be the greatest a

(52:53):
stay-at-home mom, right?
Whatever it is.
But my goal is that for when Ihave you, is to prepare you for
success for whatever may comenext.
And because of that, I thinkthat it changes the culture,
like you said, it it introducespeople.
Never thought in a million yearsthat somebody would ever say,
Man, I love the way your brainworks.

(53:15):
Like, I grew up hating my brainforever.
And for somebody to say that'sso crazy, you know what I mean?
So, anyway, um, just as we'retalking about that, these are
some of the things that justkind of pop into my head, man.

SPEAKER_01 (53:26):
So yeah, I mean, what is that that that saying in
the in the Batman that youeither die a hero or you or you
live long enough to become tosee yourself become the villain?
I mean, I think that goes for alot of people, dude, like and
like men especially.
We we grow up and we're really,really good people, and we got
our hearts broken, we get dis weget uh people get disappointed

(53:47):
by the by the actions that we domistakenly or on purpose or
whatever.
Um we don't necessarily live upto the ex expectations of other
people.
And um, you know, we get for me,man, it was really I got my
heart broke a lot.
You know, I wore my s I wore myheart on my sleeve, and
especially with women, dude, I Iwas very um I was very emotional

(54:10):
when it came to like getting myheart broken.
Because I just I gave it my all,and then when they didn't want
it or they cheated on me, or orI mean you know the heartbreak,
bro.
That shit fucking sucks, dude.
And it's like someone died,yeah.
Right?
But then like I I suffered, I Ididn't suffer, but I uh I
experienced death at a reallyyoung age.
Um the first the first person Iever lost was that was like I

(54:33):
really really remember was umwas in fourth grade and I lost
my lost my friend JJ to a housefire that um supposedly was set
on fire by his family by hisparents to get insurance money.
Yeah.
Um and that was and then foundhis sound found his sisters in
the hallway and uh just likejust shit like that, dude, that

(54:54):
like really just broke me as akid.
But like super super goodperson, and then fucking one
day, dude.
I just was like, why do I feelso hard?
Like I just feel like I'm likeI'm creating this shell over me,
right?
Like this wall.
Yeah, and I saw myself becomethe villain, like that because

(55:19):
that's like going back to women,like what I was always like the
nice guy.
I was always too nice, and I wasalways, oh, you're just friend
personality or whatever.
And I was like, well, fuck,dude.
Like the door that's what I wassupposed to do.
I thought like that, that's whatI thought girls liked.
Yeah, the door.
They like the bad boy, they likethe guy that doesn't text back
right away, and I was always theguy, like, I gotta text back

(55:40):
right away.
Yeah, and my 12-year-old's likethat, and I'm like, dude, you
you gotta stop that because it'sgonna lead into something else.
But you know, it's just like Isaw myself become this hardened
version of me and this egotist,this egotistical guy that was
like, okay, I got a handle on itnow because then I just started
getting them, dude.
You know what I mean?
Like I was like taking girlshome, and I was like able to um

(56:02):
I was able to to create morerelationships that way because
of how I acted.
I wasn't it's like this wholenew identity transformed of the
from from the kid that I wasraised to be, right?
Like respectful to women and andI still was, I wasn't like not
respectful to women, but I alsolike knew how to play the game
better, right?
Like and I created this egowithin myself that eventually I

(56:27):
think the universe or God,however, how whatever however
you want to look at it, waslike, nah, dude, like this is
not who we are, this is not whoI think you're supposed to
become.
I'm gonna give you an ego death,and you're gonna suffer for a
lot of years, and then you'regonna come out the other end,
the person that you were alwaysmeant to be.
Right.
And um, so yeah, dude, I sawmyself be the hero, become the

(56:54):
villain, and then kind of backto the hero again.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (56:57):
Well, I I think it's important to realize too,
sometimes you have to go fromone side to the other to
understand, right?
But you also then it's kind oflike that yin-yang thing where
you truly understand where yousit in who you are.
100%.
Um, because like I look at Iyeah, I study I try to apply and

(57:21):
and learn something fromeverything, but I can only
imagine having to take on thatrole and play that villain for
so long.
Like I watched Floyd Mayweather,arguably the best defensive
boxer of all time, right?
A lot of people hate the way heboxes.
I hate watching him box, it's soboring, right?
But man, how many times has heactually been hit in his career?

(57:43):
Yeah, for sure.
Right?
And but he embraced that, right?
He embraced to be able to playthat villain, you know.
Even the Las Vegas residents,one guy was like, I hate that
guy.
And I was like, what happened?
He was like, he's like, I almostgot fired because I was trying
to pick up a client.
He's like, and he went andstopped traffic.
He literally went to thefour-way um, like a f uh a

(58:05):
light, had his limousine blockoff all four sections, and just
was just dancing on top of hiscar for like 45 minutes.
He said the police couldn't getit.

SPEAKER_01 (58:18):
Floyd Mayweather was?

SPEAKER_02 (58:19):
Yeah, in Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 (58:20):
That's more strange.

SPEAKER_02 (58:22):
Because he had the money, because he could, you
know.
And um, you know, so but I lookat that and I'm like, what kind
of toll does that take on him,you know?
But you also notice then likelater on, he stopped being the
bad guy because he couldn't doit anymore.
Yeah, he basically he stoppedcaring also, yeah.
And it was just like I'm justgonna do me, and if you like me,

(58:44):
you you you know, and there's sothere's like a whole identity
thing got that goes through it.
And it's a weird process becausewe have to figure this out, but
we also go through this path tofigure out like, am I good?
Am I bad?
Um, do I enjoy doing the badthings?
Right?
Do I enjoy being a good person?
Like, you know, because that's alot of work too, trying to
upkeep that, you know.

(59:04):
I I was once told that thatpeople who are the most positive
all the time have the biggestdownfalls, and then I
experienced that, right?
So it's a weird aspect, butthere's you almost have to go
through a lot of that to figureout who you are, right?
And battling and figuring outand uncovering yourself, the

(59:25):
real version of you, is noteasy.
It's like the hardest shit thatI've ever had to go through.
Yeah.
But it is the most rewardingbecause now I know where I never
want to go back to.

SPEAKER_01 (59:35):
Yeah, for sure.
And it's it it takes a lot ofwork that most people aren't
willing to put in.

SPEAKER_02 (59:41):
Right.
Right.
So it's uh you have to kill thepride and ego.

SPEAKER_01 (59:45):
You have to, bro.

SPEAKER_02 (59:46):
And as a male, that is so hard.

SPEAKER_01 (59:48):
Yeah, it is.
And it's painful.
Yes.
Um, you know, there's a lot ofsuffering that comes involved
with that.
And uh, you know, I'll jump I'lljump into some of these symptoms
that I had before and um youknow.
When I went down with this egodeath or nervous breakdown or
whatever, I think it's I thinkit was something called the dark

(01:00:08):
night of the soul at the end ofthe day.
And it was essentially an egodeath, something that was
stripping away everything that Ithought I was, everything that I
learned who I was, and anythingthat as a child was was
traumatizing or or um uhanything that I identified

(01:00:30):
myself with before the age of 25was just like literally in one
day stripped.
Like I was no longer that personand I became this really like
fearful, I'll cower down andlike in the fetal position type
guy.
Like I was terrified ofeverything.
Um there was a and I touched onthis before, but you know, when

(01:00:55):
we were in that restaurant, Ihad I was having panic attacks
long before that.
And when we were in thisrestaurant and I had that that
last panic attack that justnever went away, basically my
brand my brain just broke.
And I didn't know why.
I didn't know what happened.
I just know that I just did notI no longer felt like myself.

(01:01:18):
And I looked in the mirror and Ijust remember thinking, like,
what the fuck just happened andwhy is it happening to me?
And um, you know, along with thepanic attacks and then like
going to bed thinking that likethe next day, like, okay, it's
just gonna go away the next day.
And when it didn't, and I wokeup day after day after day after

(01:01:40):
day, and it just didn't go away,and it just kept it just kept
getting worse and worse andworse.
Uh for two years, dude.
I just every day I thought I wasdying, but it came along with a
lot of symptoms, and I know thatlike especially like TikTok, I
have a lot of like anxietyrecover people and people that
went through what I wentthrough, but when I was 25,

(01:02:02):
there wasn't there wasn't I meanthere might have been a TikTok
almost 10, 12 years or eightyears ago, but there wasn't it
was just all like it was likevine shit, right?
It wasn't people trying to healother people, it wasn't people
trying to I think it was bitedance, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:18):
And then I remember the videos it was like somebody
would walk on and then theywould start dancing with the
rain and stuff like that.
That's what TikTok used to be.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:26):
It just was never like, and there was nothing
about like what I was goingthrough.
Like every doctor, I did everytest out there.
I got card, I got um EKGs done,I was in the emergency room
multiple times, um and bloodtests multiple times, and they
can always they would always umcome back normal.

(01:02:46):
But dude, I was like treating mybody like shit.
I was I was uh working multiplehours a day, you know, 18, 20
hours a day, getting very littlesleep, smoking cigarettes, um,
you know, a pack a day, um,drinking booze and all that
stuff, dude.
I was just trying to notnecessarily mask what I was
feeling, that's just thelifestyle that I was living,

(01:03:07):
right?
I worked at a bar during atnighttime.
Right.
And well, what do you do whenyou get off work?
You go out with your friends andyour employees and you go drink.
Right.
And um, you know, um maybe someother recreational drugs here
and there to keep me up, youknow.
So, but um, you know, some ofthe symptoms I went through that
I feel like a lot of people haveand they don't know it's

(01:03:29):
anxiety, um, was like uhdepersonalization,
derealization.
Basically, feel like you'rewatching yourself live life or
like you're in a dream, right?
Um, that was one that I felt.
Uh daily headaches, um muscletension.

(01:03:50):
Like even now, like seven yearslater, I definitely feel a lot
better than I do, I do now thanI did, and it's taken a lot of
work to get here.
But um, I really like what doesyour body do when it's in fight
or flight?
It it rounds your shoulders, itrounds your back, it puts you in
this fetal position to kind ofprotect your vital organs,
right?
And so like now I have like umtrigger points all throughout my

(01:04:16):
body that I have to constantlywork out, and I still think it's
like a mind-body connectionthing that I'm working out.
But my back always hurt, like myback tightened up, like all my
core muscles tightened up andlengthened and got weakened
because my body just thought itwas trying to protect me, right?
Um racing thoughts.
Um, there was one day, dude, Iwas super like, I don't know

(01:04:37):
what happened.
I went, I went from like extremepanic and anxiety to one day
like super, super depressed,bawling.
I remember sitting at my mom'stable and I was just fucking
just bawling my eyes out, likelost it, dude.
I don't know why.
I was questioning everything inmy life, was questioning my
relationship and and and my joband my life in general, and just

(01:05:04):
and now I feel like maybe thatwas my my hormones trying to
balance themselves, and theycouldn't, like my fight or
flight response versus myparasymp parasympathetic
response was off, and it waslike trying to you know do these
things, but like heartpalpitations.
I remember one day, dude, I wasf I freaked the fuck out because
I ate like some spicy greenchili and then I went and smoked

(01:05:27):
a cigarette, and then like every30 seconds my heart would skip a
beat and I would feel this bigthump in my chest.
Oh jeez.
So I'm sitting on my couch andlike my eyes just feel like I
just did like like I'm like I'mrolling balls, right?
Like I just took a bunch ofmolly and I didn't.
I just felt like my serotoninwas just like out the roof.
Um my pupils were really big, umheart like pounding, but then

(01:05:50):
like every 30 seconds it wouldjust stop.
And I would like, yeah, and likestill even today, dude, like
I'll catch myself like trying tolike pretend like I'm just
resting my hand and I'm likereally trying to feel my
heartbeat because that'ssomething like I created in my
mind, dude.
That's something's wrong with myheart.
Right.
And um, you know, the humming inmy body, that's something I that

(01:06:11):
I kind of still deal with.
It's like feels like my wholebody's kind of vibrating.
Um, but I remember one time,dude.
I was having a I was having likethis weird, like I just didn't
feel good.
And I went and like looked in mymirror and to try and like
splash some cold water on myface, and my pupils were huge.
It's like I just did a bunch ofdrugs, right?
And I I just like what the fuck?

(01:06:32):
Right.
Um and then what are some otherthings that I had, like sweaty
palms, like there was timeswhere I felt really like you
mentioned being really coldearlier, but like there was
times where I feel really,really cold.
So I'd go and take a hot shower,and then I'd feel really, really
hot.
Um, and then uh like I wouldhave these brain zaps, like I

(01:06:53):
would feel like like somethingshocked me in my head.
Yeah.
I had those for a while, and Ithought I was like gonna have I
was gonna start like I convincedmyself that I was gonna start
having seizures, and I I neverhad one, but like what a crazy
thought.
Like my mind would feel sostimulated that I felt like it
was gonna like explode and gointo like a seizure like

(01:07:15):
episode.
Right.
Um muscle tension I alreadysaid.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:20):
Um did you ever like for me?
I never had like an onslaught ofthings where I felt like it was
coming, it just kind of crept upon me.
You know, nothing was ever kindof like a telltale sign, but it
just kept piling up.
And I remember one day my wifewas like rubbing my back a
little bit, and I was like, thathurts.
And she's like, I'm barelytouching you, and I'm like, No,

(01:07:42):
it feels like you're likesmacking me in the back, like
you know, or or or or you know,like doing this with your
knuckles, like going down andpressing as hard as you can.
And she was like, She's like,You have something seriously
wrong because she was itshouldn't have hurt like this.
And um, you know, it was all thecortisol buildup.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:59):
Oh yeah, dude, cortisol, adrenaline, I mean,
all that stuff plays in a partwhen you're when your body is in
fight or flight response.
And um, you know, I don't knowif there was definitely some,
you know, for me it would belike I would have symptoms for
months and then they would goaway and they would jump to
another part of my body.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:18):
And then like like one, like my side would hurt
really bad for like you know, amonth or so.
I'd go get it checked out by thedoctor.
I got EKG and and I can'timagine how much fucking
radiation I fucking sent throughmy body trying to figure out
what was wrong with me whenthere was nothing wrong with me.
And it was just it was just thefight or flight response in my
body.

(01:08:38):
Yeah, and but then my side wouldhurt, so I felt like I would
have like I convinced myselfthat I had stomach cancer,
right?
And then my shoulder would hurt,and then I would feel like I had
some type of like degenerative,dude.
I would come up with so muchshit, and there was no like chat
GPT back then.
WebMD didn't get it.
Dude, WebMD, Google, I wasalways on Google, and my wife

(01:09:01):
was like, dude, you gotta stopsearching your symptoms.
Yeah.
But the way my brain was becausewhat happens when something goes
wrong?
Your brain tries to figure outwhy it's happening so it can fix
it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:12):
Yeah, finding logic, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:13):
Finding logic, and it just was and so I would
convince myself that I had adifferent disease every day.
So I created this likehypochondriac health anxiety
thing based off of everythingthat I was feeling, right?
And I just um man, I just Ithink back now and I'm like, how
did I like how did I livethrough that?
Right, you know, how did I andreally at the end of the day,

(01:09:37):
what I think was happening, man,was it was just God just
stripping everything from me,but there was no way that I was
gonna move unless I was moved.
Right, right, right, likebasically I just felt like God
just picked me up and like threwme in this torment for me to
come out the other side moreempathetic, more compassionate,

(01:10:02):
more understanding of why peopleare the way that they are, that
usually how they treat me, ifit's bad, usually has little to
or nothing to do with me, right?
Right?
Everything to do with theirtrauma and their life
experience.
And um man, people sure do makeit hard to love them sometimes,

(01:10:22):
but I really do try my best justto fucking love everybody,
right?
And that's not something I everwould have said 10 years ago.
Right.
Um, you know, if you evertreated me badly and I cut you
off, that's it, bro.
Like you were like, I'm done.
And now I feel like I'm a littlebit more like compassionate, I'm
a little bit more gentle with mykids, a little bit more gentle
with my wife.

(01:10:42):
And um, you know, just lookingback at all everything that I
felt and some of the stuff thatI still I still have like I
still have muscle tension thatI'm working out, and I'm still
um have um daily headaches andthings like that that I'm
working out, but now I just knowthat it's anxiety and I try not
to identify with it, and that'sthat's really hard to do.

(01:11:04):
That's really hard to like havea symptom in your in your body,
think that it's killing you, andthen try not to identify with
it.
Like, that's a lot harder thanit than it seems.
But um, you know, I I if youever get a chance, there's two
books you should read.

(01:11:24):
The Body Keep Score.
Yeah, we talked about that one.
Okay.
I've I've never read it likeentirely, but I've read glimpses
and I'm like, oh, that makessense.
And then the power of now.
The power of now really talksabout like really separating
yourself from being being likeeverything that you feel and

(01:11:47):
think to just being the observerof everything because that's all
we are.
What is our body?
We're just a vessel, right?
Of a soul that's living.
And that soul is the observer,and we're just you know, our our
bodies are just these thingsthat are that are um containing
this energy of our soul to justlive, right?

(01:12:08):
I mean, um, you know, peoplealways ask, like, well, what's
what's what's your purpose ofliving?
Well, to me, I think it's justto live.
Like, I don't think we're youknow, I don't think it goes back
to Alan Watts, you know, bigphilosopher, even Bruce Lee, if
you know you're into that, butum just really just dialing in
and just understanding thatwe're not necessarily here for

(01:12:29):
like well, what's your life'spurpose, you know, like well, to
to love and to just live andjust be and just be a light in
the world.
You know, like oh, I think mypurpose in the world is to
become the president of theUnited States.
I mean, that's all great anddandy, but that's just an
identity that you've createdthat is outside of anything

(01:12:49):
outside of like loving and beinglove and being a light in this
world is just it's part of theyin and yang that you just
mentioned, right?
It's like we have to have theblack to have the white, we have
to have the anger to have thehappy and the joy, because
otherwise we wouldn't know howto experience anything, right?
Right?
We have to have the heaven tohave the hell, yeah, right.

(01:13:10):
And I think that's somethingthat you know when it says
create heaven on earth, I thinkthat's really something that we
do up here mentally, because wecan live in hell while we're
here, and you and I both did.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:20):
Yeah, I was gonna say I've done that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:22):
And then now we're on the other side and we've
created we've basically createdthis this heaven per se, right?
Or at least we're trying to,we're trying to get there.
Um, but um yeah, dude.
I mean, those are some of thesymptoms I had.
I mean, I can go down it, but ifyou know anyone out there has
had anything that I've had andthey're like wondering what's

(01:13:43):
wrong, and they've gone to anydoctor, and they'd like, you
know, they've all their bloodtests have come back normal and
all their tests have come backnormal.
And I even got down to likeeverything would come back
normal, and then I'd be cool fora couple hours, and then I'd be
laying in bed and be like, nope,they fucking missed something.
Something is being missed on mycharts that this doctor is not

(01:14:03):
seeing.
And I've been there so manytimes that they are, dude, I
would go sit, I would go sit inthe parking lot of the emergency
room just in case.
Um, there was times where like Iwouldn't want to go anywhere,
but like we would have familygatherings, like my wife's
sister would have stuff, or we'dgo to mom's dinner uh uh uh uh

(01:14:24):
for uh Christmas or Thanksgivingor whatever, and I wanted to do
nothing but stay home, but Ididn't want to be home alone
just in case something happenedand no one was there to save me.
But then when I went to thesefamily functions, I couldn't be
present because I was sointernal, and what really what I
think was happening was it wasforcing me to isolate myself so

(01:14:47):
I can shed something to becomesomething else.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:51):
And you know what's crazy, and this is not something
that a lot of people would thinkabout all of that was really
teaching you skill sets of whatyou can now do on the business
world.
And not many people would thinkthat going through all of that

(01:15:13):
experience they to them theythink that it's illness, it's
it's weakness.
But the reality of it is thatall of that taught you all the
skills that we you use today inyour business.
And so it was actually thegreatest blessing that you could
have ever experienced.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:27):
Yeah, totally.
I told my wife the other day, Isaid, you know, I about going
back thinking how everything,everything that I went through,
that was definitely the worstthing that has ever happened to
me.
And I don't know if I had amagic wand and if I can go back
to seven years if I would changeit.

(01:15:47):
And I say that because that shitwas fucking hard to get through,
dude.
And I feel like a lot of peoplehave gone through that and
didn't make it.
Correct.
And that is such a big thingwith suicide for me, is that I
decided not to do that.

(01:16:09):
And I decided to I decided toplay it out and wait until
tomorrow or next week.
And in this case it was sevenyears, and it was a fucking hard
thing to get through.
And I got through it and I madeit, and I'm so much better, and
life is so much more beautifulon the other side.

(01:16:30):
And um I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:34):
This isn't this is why we did this.
This is why we decided to dothis, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:38):
You know, it's um it made me so much more like it
made me realize how much howstrong I am because of how
resilient I was and howresilient it made me, and it
made me it made me become such abetter man on the other side
that I just think that's whatjust most people don't

(01:17:02):
understand, man, is I did theresearch, I did the work, I I I
was still able to own abusiness, I was still able to be
a father, I was still able to bea husband.
And it was hard to do all thosethings, but but uh now that I
feel better and I feel bettermentally, physically,
spiritually, I grew in all thosethings.

(01:17:26):
And I I just look at life now,dude, like it like I get to just
live life the rest of my lifenow.
Yes, you know what I mean?
Yeah, and then like maintainingthat, because it would just be
so much e it would be easy to goback to an old me, but then like
I'm sure you think about thistoo.
I never want to go back, I neverever want to feel the way that I

(01:17:47):
felt ever again.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:48):
Yes.
I describe it as basically likesomebody who's never known that
they're blind, right?
Like maybe partially blind,maybe their vision is off.
And then you give them that 2020vision, you put glasses on and
you give them context, andthey're like, Whoa, I haven't
seen this clearly ever.
I haven't seen I haven't beenable to read people's faces or

(01:18:09):
see their eye colors or seeacross the room, right?
And I feel like that that whenyou come out on the other side,
that's what life feels like.
And now because you can seeeverything, you're so much more
aware, you're so much morealert, like a higher version of
yourself, right?
But then you also like you allyou want everyone to feel that.
And so you you know, you try,you try to implore and help

(01:18:29):
people to get there.
Unfortunately, it's just noteverybody's ready, at least not
at this time.
So you just hope that the wisdomthat you impart in them, like I
said, sometimes it's hard tolove people, and for me, I find
it's hard to love people who arestuck and stay stuck.
And you know, may it's not Ihope it's not gonna be like that
forever.
I hope that they come outthrough it, and you can only do

(01:18:50):
so much, but it that's thehardest thing is to watch people
who just constantly, you know,um put themselves in similar or
worse situations, or people, youknow, and that part is the part
that that's what brings me down,and so I have to kind of like
step away from from that, youknow.
I I I can help you and I canhave a conversation with you,

(01:19:10):
but there's a certain cutoffpoint where like I can't watch
you go through that because thatbreaks my heart.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:14):
Yeah, for sure.
And it doesn't just break yourheart, dude.
You kind of, at least for me,like I have a really hard time
being so empathetic that I bringon other people's energies.
And um, you know, some peoplethink that's like witchcraft or
whatever, but everything isenergy, and all that is is just
energy getting swapped from meand you.
That's why, like, you know, Ithink we vibe so well because we

(01:19:38):
have a really we're we'revibrating at uh at a um certain
frequency that is similar, yeah.
Right?
Yeah, so then like when people,dude, are just like even like
social media isn't makinganybody, but there's all like
someone could post the mostbeautiful post in the world, and
there's always that percent ofpeople that are just fucking

(01:20:00):
just destroying it, right?
Right, like their lives are somiserable and they're stuck and
they stay stuck and they theyjust think that's who they are,
right?
And it just like, dude, like Idon't know, man.
Like it could be like I've seenposts about people kids with
cancer, and there's some guytalking shit.

(01:20:20):
Like it's like, dude, like isyour life that yeah, like what
happened to you?
Who hurt you?
What like you know, and likelike how do you how do we make
it how do we make men's mentalhealth make men understand that

(01:20:42):
it's like that's not how we'resupposed to be living, and how
do we fix it?

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:48):
Well, I guess that's the question we're gonna try to
figure out and and you know,with the guests that we have
planned on coming on and allthose things, you know.
So um man, there's so manydifferent topics that I know
we're gonna have just coming infrom this, you know, whether
it's the resiliency, you know,um the grit, you know.
But I think the biggest thingthat you just people just have

(01:21:11):
to know, and that why we'redoing this is be we want guys
specifically to know that you'renot on an island.
You know, you're not unique forstaying in your ego, you're not
you know, one of a kind fordealing with this.
In fact, you know, as hard as itis, um killing your ego as as

(01:21:33):
hard as that may be, is it worthlosing your family over?
Is it worth losing friendships,you know?
Um, and I think that those arethe topics that we're gonna get
really gritty about and talkabout because people aren't
talking about those things,right?
Um, like I said, it's not gonnabe easy.
But I think that these are thethings that we need to start

(01:21:55):
normalizing and havingconversations and and talking
about it because um again, itdoesn't make you stand out in a
crowd of people to be able tobasically hold that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:06):
Yeah, dude, you know, it's just reminds me of I
we went to the zoo a littlewhile ago, and I found there was
this guy that we saw, he waspushing his two girls, and his
wife and his wife was walkingbehind him, and we saw him
multiple times, and every timewe saw him, he was yelling at
his kids.
You know, like four or six yearsold, maybe.
Yeah, and just like shut thefuck down, like yeah, like every

(01:22:26):
time.
And I we saw him like seven oreight times, and every time he
was just yelling at his kids,and all they were doing were
just like being kids, beingkids, man.
Like, and I'm not saying thatI'm not guilty of that because I
definitely am, but like just tome, like that was a little
excessive, and like seeing thatwas like, man, someone someone

(01:22:46):
hurt you, or you saw somethingthat hurt you so bad that you
haven't dealt with, and that'sjust energy escaping you, and
that you know, your kids are aneasy target, and he may not even
be aware of that, you know.
And but how do we you know, howdo we make people more aware of

(01:23:07):
that?
What is something that peoplecan do that is they don't they
don't um what am I I don't thewords I'm trying to say are
coming out, but you know, howinstead of instead of just
reacting all the time, how do welike as men, how do we process

(01:23:28):
stuff and just understand thatthat's something we gotta work
through and that's something wegotta heal?

SPEAKER_02 (01:23:32):
I think it starts just like this dialoguing it
out, so um man, like I said,it's therapeutic, sometimes a
little bit heavy, but I'm I'm uhI appreciate you being able to
be honest, right, abouteverything.
That's why I love doing this andwhy it was uh an easy yes for us

(01:23:53):
to commit to this, I think, onboth sides.
Um so I want to remind you guysif you're listening to this, um
if you're a parent, I want wewant to hear about your
accepting of maybe the challengethat we offered, right?
Saying yes, and again, make itreasonable.
And you know, if the kid says,Oh, I want to go out for like
you know, ice cream at midnightor something like that, maybe a

(01:24:13):
little bit unreasonable, or orif the kid just wants to go in
and spend a bunch of money orwhatever, but you know, find
something that is easy to committo, right?
And just kind of watch, maybedocument what happens.
Um I Aaron, I know we've talkedabout how one of the things for
you has always kind of been andwhy you're on this project is
because you said sometimes itwas hard to listen and not be

(01:24:34):
able to get a chance to respond.
So is there anything that camethrough in today's episode that
you wanted to maybe chime in on?

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:42):
Yeah, um, so actually there was a couple of
things, funny enough, is I kindof actually want to go back and
just touch base on some of thethings that you guys talked
about.
Um when you were talking aboutrelationships, right?
And like spousal relationships,things like that.
It doesn't need to be likespousal necessarily.
But uh oh, hold on.

(01:25:03):
Alright, I think we're good now.
I was like, my mic's not workingfor some reason.
Like, and I'm wearingheadphones.
I'm like, how is this a problem?
And that camera shut off.
It sure did.
Things are going great.
Um anyways, so going back tothat, I I had a thought process
and I was gonna put it this way.
I think men have an obvioustendency to be problem solvers.

(01:25:25):
And what can happen is your wifethen begins to treat you like a
problem solver and no longerlike a partner, right?
Because you were talking abouthow why those relationships
start and they kind of maneuverto this, I'm being told what to
do, being told what to do,right?
You kind of pigeonholed yourselfinto being that kind of
individual in that relationship,and you don't understand why,

(01:25:48):
right?
You don't get that perspective.

SPEAKER_02 (01:25:50):
That goes to that communication piece that we
talked about, right?
If you talked about to just say,hey, can you solve some of my
problems sometimes, right?
Yep.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:57):
And if men don't understand when they need to be
a problem solver and when theyneed to be a listener, that's
gonna end up causing animosity.

SPEAKER_05 (01:26:06):
Oof.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:06):
And then that animosity is gonna end up being
the difference between havingarguments and having dialogue.
I think that's where those someof those things are coming from,
you know, down the road.
Um and then when you guys aretalking about children, I said
this to one of my uh cousins onetime, and I just saw a click,
and because I saw it click inhis mind, I'm like, I better

(01:26:28):
remember that because I wastelling them, right?
And I told him, I said, childrenare not learning how to talk,
they're learning how tocommunicate.
And that is so much moreimportant when you really
understand you're you'reteaching them how they should be
talking to you, how they're howthey're how they're supposed to
be communicating with you,right?
Because Gabo Romate said, andhe's a um he's a child

(01:26:51):
psychologist, he said there's nosuch thing as an anxious child,
there's only anxious parents,right?
Because what they're doing isthey're just they're they're
just doing what you're doing,right?
So so when you're seeing all umall those things, like for
example, that father at the zoo,right?
That guy is just riddled withanxiety.
Everything that that those kidsare doing is a reflection of how

(01:27:13):
he's feeling, and everythingthat those kids are doing is a
reflection of that.
It it becomes just this feedbackloop, yes, right?
Yeah, he yells at them, they dothis, they act up more, he yells
at them more, and then you justsee this, you know, in in
perpetuity.
Yeah, it's the loop.
It's just chaos, man.
It's just chaos.
And um and you guys had a prettydeep, you know, question right

(01:27:35):
there at the end.
And I was just gonna say, Ithink that the value of the
world is in direct relationshipto the perspective of the value
of yourself.
So when people get on there andthey drop these nasty comms and
say these hurtful, that's theperspective of themselves,
right?
So you don't need to sit thereand ask and wonder why or how
this person is.
You already know that youalready know that person's

(01:27:56):
perspective of themselves basedon how they're responding to the
world.
Because they think everything isin correlation, because most
people will value themselvesmore than others.
And if that's already how poorlythat they reflect on themselves,
that shows a pretty negativeperspective of the world.
So those are all my notes forthe show.
Yeah, I gotta figure out whathappened to that camera.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:15):
Yeah, all good.
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
You know, as far as going backto having, you know, that's I
guess that's one thing I wastrying to say was you know, how
do we or how do how does anybodytry and fix the perspective of
what of themselves if they don'tknow how?
You know what I mean?
Like what like obviously itstarts with this, but like also

(01:28:40):
like check on your homies, dude.
Like like have like spend timeto listen and and really take
the time to understand whythey're feeling the way that
they're feeling, but like thingsthat happen to me and you feel
like I was spiritually awakened,right?
And I don't mean like religiousstuff, I mean more like

(01:29:02):
something inside of me nowunderstands that I have to be
one of the people, a lightworker, right?
Like I have to be one of thepeople that that meets somebody
because you know now, yeah.
I meet somebody that's goingthrough something, and they are
an angry person or a depressedperson or an angry person,

(01:29:22):
right?
And I have to walk with themthrough it because I've been
through it.
Yeah, right.
But like there aren't I feellike there's a lot of us in the
world, but like also who's doingthe work.
Yes, you know what I mean.
We get so caught up in ourregular lives and our jobs and
our marriages and everythingelse, and I'm not saying that

(01:29:43):
this is more important thanthose things, but it's just as
important, right?
Right?
That we need to continue to makesure that we are taking the time
to be like, hey man, like I'vebeen through this because that's
not something that I had.
I didn't have anybody to belike, hey man, this is what
you're going through, there'snothing that I can.
Say or do that's gonna help youright now, but I promise you,

(01:30:04):
you're gonna come on the otherside of this, right?
And if you take that as if youtake all of this as a lesson
rather than a punishment, right?
You're gonna see the world a lotbrighter on the other side, and
you're gonna hear colors, andyou're gonna wanna hug trees and
put your feet on the ground toground yourself and drink tea
and go to bed early and wake upearly and meditate, and you're

(01:30:27):
gonna do all these things,they're gonna help help you
heal, but then you gottacontinue to do those things to
maintain your healing so you cango out and do exactly what I did
for you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:35):
Yeah, because you're gonna you're gonna nourish your
body, your soul, yeah, right?
All of those things instead ofjust um nourishing that
sentiment, right?
The that darkness or whatever itis that you're going through.
And like I said, you know, treatit like an illness.
Find what you need to do totreat those symptoms.
For sure.
So yeah.
Thank you.

(01:30:56):
Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:56):
Yeah, man, absolutely thank you.
I think that's it.
I think probably the nextepisode.
I know we promised you thatwe're gonna be recording next
time or doing video, but itlooks like one of our cameras
cut out again, so it'll probablybe episode number four when we
start uh start uh doing uh somesome videography.
But we appreciate all you guyslistening, and then um again let

(01:31:17):
us know about the acceptancechallenge as far as saying yes
um to your kids, um, you know,even if you're tired and it's
been a long day or whatever, andthen um just taking the time for
yourself, man.
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 (01:31:28):
Yeah, and let us know how it went.
We'd love to be able to shareback those stories um to you
know to others, and I'm sure youguys have great ideas of how it
went.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:37):
Hell yeah.
Right on, guys.
We'll see you next time.
Bye, everybody.
See ya.