September 16, 2025 • 74 mins
What if your menstrual cycle wasn't meant to be painful? What if the wisdom of your womb could guide you toward more pleasure, joy, and ease in your life? These questions form the foundation of my profound conversation with Nicole Pemberton, womb priestess and creatrix of The Goddess Moves.
If you’ve ever felt the whisper of your womb calling you back home, this episode is for you. In midlife, so many of us realize we’ve been living disconnected from our bodies, moving through cycles of doing, pushing, and surviving. But what if your body, your womb, your sacred center—held the keys to ease, sovereignty, and joy?
In this soulful conversation with my sister and womb priestess, Nicole Pemberton of The Goddess Moves, we unravel the mystery of cyclical living, womb wisdom, and how honouring your body’s rhythms can set you free. This episode is a remembrance, an invitation to reclaim the beauty, power, and alignment of your feminine body so you can rise fully as the woman you came here to be.
✨ In This Episode, You’ll Hear:
- The powerful story that awakened Nicole to the sovereignty of her womb—and how it changed her life forever.
- Why painful cycles and PMS are not your destiny, and the revolutionary truth about your moon cycles.
- Ancient practices to reconnect with your womb.
- The hidden intergenerational wounds carried in our bodies, and how reclaiming womb sovereignty heals you and your lineage.
- How midlife women can embody pleasure, vitality, and sovereignty by honouring their cycles or the cycles of the moon post-menopause.
🦋Soulful Reflection Questions
- How do you currently honour or ignore the natural cycles of your body?
- What would shift if you allowed yourself to fully rest during your “winter” phase?
- What practice from today’s episode are you curious to explore as a pathway to deeper connection with your womb and your power?
Ready to transform your relationship with your body? Visit Nicole at https://www.thegoddessmoves.space and begin your journey to womb sovereignty today.
Follow her on Instagram @thegoddessmoves
Interested in working with Kena? Let's have a conversation. Book your call now!
- - - - -
Learn more about RESET, the Intimate Women's Retreat to pause, play & connect. From October 23-26 in the Laurentians, close to Montreal, Qc, Canada. Check the details and reserve your spot: https://midlifebutterfly.ca/resetretreat - Over 30% discount. DM for details!
If this story touched your heart, share it with another woman who’s navigating her own transition.
And if you’re ready to reconnect with yourself and create your next chapter with more freedom, joy, and alignment, join me on Instagram @midlifebutterfly
or explore The Butterfly Path coaching journey.
Download the Midlife Butterfly Guide with 5 Radical Practices to Heal, Take Your Power Back & Rise
Song: Reborn by Alexander Nakarada
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kena Siu (00:00):
Are you ready to reconnect with your womb and
your body, to live with moreease and flow?
Nicole Pemberton from theGoddess Moves is here to share
her wisdom.
Midlife butterfly, a woman inthe sacred, in between.
She's not who she once was andnot quite who she's becoming.
(00:21):
Yet she's unraveling, awakening, remembering.
She's navigating lifetransitions divorce, loss,
reinvasion moves with a burningdesire for freedom, joy and
solid living.
She feels the pull to rise, tofly.
She's no longer afraid of herown wings.
(00:44):
Hello everyone, welcome back tothe Midlife Butterfly podcast.
This is your host, Kena Siu,and we have a super goddess in
here with us today.
She's a sister and also amentor from Temple Body Arts.
We met actually there and I amso glad to bring her here today
(01:06):
to share about all her wisdom.
She has so many trainings andcertifications, nicole Pemberton
, and we're going to talk mainlyabout the womb and femininity
and whatever else it flows.
So, nicole, welcome.
(01:29):
And Nicole is the creatrix ofthe Goddess Moves.
She supports multidimensionalwomen to cultivate deep
self-awareness, inner harmonyand develop a loving
relationship with their womb,space and body so that they can
break free from overwhelm,burnout and embody more
(01:50):
luxurious vitality, clarity,healing, joy and peace.
And among the whole list ofcertifications and wisdom that
she has gained, it comes she's awomb priestess, sacred activist
, a master, alchemical movementand ritual facilitator.
(02:10):
She's a writer, mentor, speaker, mystic channel, a certified
Akashic records reader, reikiand crystal energy practitioners
, certified trauma-informedpractitioner, as I mentioned
before, a temple buddy priestessand mentor, and the list goes
on and I'm going to share herdetails in the show notes so you
(02:34):
can, you know, dig in more incase you're interested after
this wonderful conversation thatis coming through.
So, nicole, welcome, welcome,it's a pleasure to have you here
, sister.
Nicole Pemberton (02:49):
It's awesome to be here and just be in this
sacred temple space.
Kena Siu (02:55):
Yes, thank you.
Well, I would like you to startwith where your story starts
and how the Goddess Moves bornoh goodness where my story
starts well, when?
Well, you know what I mean Imean whatever is more you know
(03:16):
relevant to where you are andthe wisdom that you share, to
helping women to reconnect totheir womb and their bodies.
Nicole Pemberton (03:27):
Yeah, it's really interesting to you know,
just be present with what is nowand then also to recognize the
journey, because, I mean, I'vebeen presently, I think, you
know, held space and facilitatedmovement journeys for over
(03:54):
250,000 humans children, adults,being a professional dancer at
a time and, you know, holdingspace for hundreds of women to
really be in their liberationand create their own path to
power and know the resources andhave hope to bring balance and
(04:18):
nourishment and sovereignty tothe womb space.
Um, and sovereignty to the wombspace, um, it's quite, it's,
it's like it's quite a somethingto say that this is what.
(04:39):
This is what I'm doing.
Yeah, um, because it it wasn'tto be in a space of leadership.
I never, you know, at one pointI never wanted to be in front
and I never wanted to be theleader.
And this work really brought meliterally on a steel sheet.
(05:02):
It brought me on a steel tablesheet and it was.
There's fluorescent lightseverywhere and you know, I'm
looking around and there'speople just moving about and you
(05:25):
know, and just being busy, andthen I'm seeing steel
instruments and then I see aperson with a mask saying hi,
nicole, this is so-and-so, I'myour anesthesiologist.
I'm going to count from 10 to 1and we're going to support you
(05:45):
know, and we're going to do whatwe need to do.
And so in that moment they weresaying, okay, we're going to
(06:12):
count down from 10 to one.
I was just praying that myuterus was going to be intact
and there was a possibility thatI could wake up without one.
And I was in that moment withlike this is just like surrender
, this is told us, I can't goanywhere again, like there's no
(06:34):
backing out, it's here it is.
And they say 10, nine, eightand a seven, six, five, four,
three and a seven, six, five,four, three.
And I'm out.
And I made a prayer before I wasout to just like, please, let
(07:05):
me just wake up, let everythinggo well, let them do what they
need to do and let me keep myuterus.
And so, when I woke up, I washearing babies.
I was hearing, I was literallyhearing cries of babies and I
realized later they told me thatI was in the cesarean ward, on
another side.
They had run out of room andI'm on the one far side and then
on the other side, babies werebeing born.
(07:27):
And as I'm waking up, and Irealized, okay, yes.
And then they told me yes, theygot everything out.
Took a little longer than theythought, but it got everything
out.
And in that moment I realizedthat you know this, I was
forever changed.
This process of, of, of reallyunder tuning into my, my womb,
(07:54):
my belly, like what?
The belly button below theuterus and all the processes it
does, and all the, the, theexperiences that I went through
to get to that landed me in thatspace.
I realized in that moment thatmy womb was going to be one of
my greatest teachers and it'sand it inspired to, to um, share
(08:22):
about the, the, but alsoadvocate for the womb, wellness
and also the cycles of ourbodies, and offer hope of other
(08:42):
resources that can help to bringharmony, bring easeful
menstrual cycles to, you know,release energy, like, create a
nourished environment for ourbodies so that we can, for our
(09:05):
bodies, so that we can be in athriving state.
When somebody told me that mymenstrual cycle was not, I was
not supposed to have pain.
I thought he was a unicorn.
I was like, yeah, get out ofhere.
That doesn't exist.
And little did I know thatthere are.
So there's so much that that,in this rite of passage of the,
the feminine, and being a womanand and really advocating and
(09:30):
and and standing for our bodies.
Um, a lot wasn't told and itwasn't, you know, to the fault
of anyone.
It's just that our societyreally does it does it's like
(09:50):
put it away, fold it neatly,keep it clean and don't tell
anybody.
Kena Siu (09:57):
Oh my God, so true.
Nicole Pemberton (09:58):
You know, and it's such a disservice for a
body that is responsible forhumanity, for creation of our
human existence, why wouldn't wewant to protect, nourish and
keep the center space of ourbodies um, sacred and uh uh,
(10:27):
with vitality, but also withrespect as well, you know?
Yeah.
Kena Siu (10:34):
so when you ask, when did it start this womb
advocation, it started from myown journey of my own wound
clearing wow, what a potentstory, and I mean, just when you
(10:55):
were telling me the prayer thatyou said I just hope that I'm
gonna wake up still with myuterus on and just gave me
chills like that's all sopowerful because I think we're
so disconnected from our bodiesand we take them for granted
most of the time and I guess,probably when we get to those
(11:17):
situations is when we reallyrealize that they are working
for us 24-7 and most likely wedon't have anything to do.
Right, and then realizing that,yeah, they are there for a
reason and they need respect andthey need to be honored and
there are better ways for us tolive.
(11:38):
We are not unicorns.
That's supposed to be the waythe body should between quotes
work if we will know how totreat it properly and we will
have, and if we will have theknowledge on how to do it.
And I think one of the thingsthat we missed in our society is
(12:00):
having that knowledge about ourmenstrual cycles that you said,
because when I was working withthe mentorship with you and
Sophia in Temple Body Arts,learning about our menstrual
cycles and how women operate ina complete different way of the
(12:25):
masculine, it just changed mylife literally.
So I would like you to talkabout the menstrual cycles and
how we can actually live withmore ease when we connect and
honor and respect our body whilegoing through these processes.
Nicole Pemberton (12:47):
Yeah, I mean it is, it is a, it's like it's
not even a trifecta, it's like a, it's a quadrifecta, if that's
even a word.
If it's not, I'm breaking it up.
Sounds good, but it's becauseit involves, like I like to call
(13:09):
it, our moon cycles, because weare connected to the moon.
The feminine is connected tothe moon, the masculine is
connected to the sun, sort oflike when you see Superman,
right goes up and he goes to thesun and gets rejuvenated and
he's like boom, he's ready tostart.
Well, our feminine bodies, weget rejuvenated by the moon,
right by the night sky.
(13:31):
Um, and and like every like,you know, in the year, 13 moons,
well, we have our 13.
You know, every year we have a13 moon cycle right.
So when we're looking at ourmoon cycles and I'm going to
call that from now on when we'relooking at our moon cycles and
(13:54):
how we flow, this is where theterm cyclical living comes
through, because if we honor theenergy of our you know the
different parts of our cycle wemove in a more harmonious rhythm
within our bodies, and so partof the problem that we have with
(14:17):
, for example, pms and you know,and how we can feel completely
depleted or we try to movethrough our bleeding time, is
because we're going against ourcycle.
Our society very much loves itand we see it everywhere when we
(14:43):
are in our ovulation phase,because this part of the cycle
is when our pheromones are like,hey, we're kicking.
Our body is just like we'reready.
We're just like we have ourpartners.
It's like come here, we'rejuicy, we're fertile and we're
(15:03):
expressive and we're like, yeah,woo, it's good.
Right, this is the images wemost likely will see of a woman
commercially, whatever that typeof energy of a woman is in the
ovulation phase.
Now I'm going to back up alittle bit, but that's what we
(15:26):
see, that is what we're expectedto be in all the time, and our
body's rhythms are not designedthat way, to be, in that
expressiveness all the time.
And here's where we run intoresistance, you know, with our
(15:47):
rhythms and with life, becauselife is life.
If we've got, you know, we'veall got things going on work,
family, kids, you know all thethings, right, right.
And so here's where we get tobe a bit radical and
revolutionary in this advocationof like, ok, really
(16:12):
understanding those rhythms.
So when we bleed, when we gointo the bleeding time, which is
referred to as wintertime or inthe scientific, you know,
scientifically, that's yourmenstrual, that's your bleed,
right, our body in that space,this is where we have the least
(16:36):
energy, this is where our bodyis shedding.
We have a natural detox thathappens every month.
So we have cleanses, we haveall these things and whatnot,
right, which they have theirplace.
But our bodies, naturally andbiologically, have a detox every
(16:58):
month, which is pretty cool,right?
So this is our time, wherewe're designed to go in, we're
designed to go internal andwe're designed to rest.
Now, and if we follow that andwe say to our job or wherever
(17:18):
our families and say mommy isbleeding, this is her time off,
we are going to encounterresistance.
What do you mean?
You understand.
Our bodies are designed to restat least a couple days so the
body can to shed the tissue,shed the lining, shed the blood,
(17:44):
so our bodies can naturallyflush itself out.
If we're not getting pregnant,this is what is happening, right
, and so that is our time toreally slow down, eat warm foods
, nourishing foods, lots ofminerals, and really and and and
(18:04):
notice the dreams, because ourcycles will um affect us.
Their cycles affect us on theemotional, physical, spiritual,
um and mental, right, and so wehave to honor all of them.
We can't just honor one or theother.
So the, the, the, the bleedingtime, that's when we want to
(18:26):
take as much rest as we can,right, then?
So this is where we want to putyour feet up, lie down, watch
some movies, get takeout, dowhat you need to do right, tell,
put people on notice, right,I'm working for.
Tell, put people on notice,right, I'm working for, even if
(18:49):
you have to work from home orjust tell, tell your spouse or
whatnot, I'm not doing anything.
I need my body's resting, okay,and this is one of the hardest
things to do in our.
This was, this is the hardestthing for me to do.
Right Is to like, notice and belike what's happening.
Oh, what am I doing?
Okay, how am I going to makethis fit?
It's, it's challenging in oursociety.
(19:11):
Yeah, most it is.
It's the most supportive toallow the rest of the cycle to
flow smoothly, right and lesspain, because we're in an
epidemic where pain is accepted.
Oh, that's so true, right.
(19:33):
Take a couple Advil and get onwith it.
Kena Siu (19:37):
Why?
Yeah, if it would take thattime to pause, take a little nap
, yeah, then you don't need apill.
Nicole Pemberton (19:45):
Yeah, right, the time to pause.
Take a little nap, yeah, thenyou don't need a pill.
Yeah right, we're in this.
We have this epidemic of likeokay, well, there's no time to
rest, there's no time to, we'vegot stuff to do, but and then we
pay for it later.
Kena Siu (19:58):
Yeah, and it's so true .
It's just not making the time.
The time is there.
It's about prioritizing what wewant to do.
I mean, of course.
I mean, if we have a nine tofive or something, yes, you said
probably try to work from homeor another way to sneak in, to
take it a bit slower duringthose days, that the body really
(20:20):
needs the rest and I think, asyou said, it has a lot to do
with how society works and youknow we are so into the doing.
Nicole Pemberton (20:29):
Doing all the time and the productivity,
whatever you know, mentalitythat is like no, like I'm at
full fault of of this, of doingthe opposite of what I just said
(20:52):
we need to do.
You know, and I've been, I'vebeen, I've, I've it's been a
hard lesson, it's been a hardpractice to really integrate
because, you know, there therewas no, there was no um, there
was no example of like to toslow down.
(21:15):
There, just every it was like,um, okay, life doesn't stop, so
I don't.
So so, mom, dad, don't stop.
I got to, you know, from when Ifirst got my period, I still
got to go to school.
There was no stopping.
You would have a tea, I'd havea tea at night and maybe rest or
(21:38):
get go to bed a little early,but you, but you still still
went, went, went, you stillstill got, did the things that
needed to do.
I was an athlete.
I remember having to run atrack meet and my period was
full on on day like day two, andI had wicked cramps and I put
on everything under the sun so Ididn't have to feel the pain,
(22:00):
so I could go and run.
You know that that was thementality that I was in.
So then, you know, later, andgoing deeper into this work and
then getting the guidance reallyclear.
The hardest thing you're goingto have to do is to, when you
bleed or on certain days of yourcycle, sit down and lie down
(22:25):
and don't do anything.
So this is so vital during ourmoon time, during the bleeding
time, and that's why the energyis low, because our hormones,
everything is shifting in thebody, everything is emptying out
.
Now, when we move on to what wecall the follicular phase, or
(22:50):
we say connecting to nature,it's spring, right.
This is when the energy nowstarts to rise.
This is when, okay, we've shedeverything.
Now we need energy to buildback up, build the lining in our
, in our vaginal walls, buildthe getting ready because
there's a possibility of makinga baby, right.
(23:13):
So all the resources are nowstarting to, you know, churn and
the hormones are starting topercolate and and get, and and
start to rise again, and thenwe're starting to get more
energy right, and so,spiritually and mentally, we're
starting to cook with ideas,Some of the things that came
(23:33):
through during the bleeding time.
Now it's like, okay, I got someenergy, now let's go.
We're starting to rev up andthe body is in that spring phase
, freshness, like ready to goout.
You're not at the peak of like,but it's starting to right.
So that rest period is now theenergy is elevated right.
(23:57):
So spring and summer are thebest times.
Like I said, summer is, likeyou know, ovulation juicy.
We're fertile, we're just likeyou know, we're very.
We have more energy to beexpressive external right.
So, spring and summer, if we'relooking at cyclically, this is
(24:20):
where you want to be out, thisis where you want to make plans,
this is where you want toschedule out.
This is where you want to makeplans, this is where you want to
schedule things.
This is where you really wantto amp up that creativity.
If you've got these ideas thatare like ba-bang, ba-bang,
ba-bang, get it down, because Ipromise you, once you start to
get into the luteal phase, it'sall gone.
And then you're like I had thisgreat idea.
I was like cooking the otherday and now I was like cooking
(25:06):
the other day and now I was likeyeah, yeah later.
And then you go back to it andyou're like wait, why am I not
so I should have?
You know, I should have.
This is your, this is yourspace.
This is your space becauseyou've got that energy right.
You can take more fresh fruitsand and raw and smoothies.
You know you can the, the, the,you can, you can have the food
that that you, that you have atthis time, your, your body can,
can, body can take more becauseit's that fresh summer energy,
(25:28):
it's that energy and your bodyis more can adapt to that, right
.
Once the ovulation phase startsto the summer phase, transition
into the luteal phase, right.
(25:48):
So let's say, okay, summer,you're all cooking and
everything it's great.
But no, you know you didn'tconceive, right, mm-hmm, um, the
follicle, the egg, starts to,uh, you know, disintegrate,
starts to, um, you know, uh, gointo the lining and we're
(26:20):
getting ready to shed, right.
So in that luteal phase, here'swhere, um, here's where the
body is now starting to go inagain, right.
So you may notice you want toto go in again, right.
So you may notice you want tohave a little bit more sleep in
the mornings.
Emotions may start to come up,because this is a time where
anything that needs mentally,physically, that needs to be
(26:40):
processed to really look at,here's the time where it's
really good to do that.
So by the time you get to thebleeding time again, your body
is flushing that out right, andso this is when we want to start
to slow down.
This is crucial for us to startto slow down, to not be as
(27:04):
active as we were in the springand summer, because the body is
now preparing to bleed right.
Conception didn't happen.
The body's now slowing down.
It's a little less energy.
Start to integrating those wornfoods again.
Um, castor oil pack on thebelly is so beautiful to help
(27:24):
prepare the womb to the, theuterine lining, to start to shed
right and honor the cravingsyeah, yeah, yeah.
See, here's the thing if we dothis right, those cravings will
lessen.
But if we're not in harmonywith our bodies, this is where
(27:47):
all the stuff starts to happenthe swelling in the breast, the
sugar cravings, the, the like,like, sometimes lashing out if
we're not properly processingour emotions.
You know, this is where, likethe wild can sometimes, if they,
if the, if those emotions don'tget addressed, then it's like,
unfiltered on, burnout,exhausted, like there is that,
(28:11):
that messy side to the wild, youknow, um, and so, yeah, it
means that.
Kena Siu (28:19):
That's why, when they said that we're in a pms, when
we know it's it wild you knowthe wild women coming out it's
really because we're nothonoring the whole cycle.
If we would really followaccordingly, those symptoms
between quotes will not be thatexplosive or that evident.
Nicole Pemberton (28:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kena Siu (28:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Nicole Pemberton (28:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, because we're more inharmony with our body yeah right
, you know, like, just thatalone.
Like there's, there's a there's,you know more to it of.
Like, you know what we eat andour environment, the stress
(29:06):
levels and, um, you know justhow we eat and our environment,
the stress levels, and you knowjust how we are community, you
know things that we clean ourhouse with and all that stuff.
But if we're just looking inaction, right, of how to move
more into cyclical living, if wejust have those principles of
(29:29):
like, okay, when we're bleeding,we're going to start to really
just take time to rest and gointernal, save the outdoor, save
the gatherings and the gettogethers and whatever.
Just tell people I'm notavailable and that's okay,
they'll get over it.
You're not available?
Yeah, right, you're notavailable, right, uh, cause this
(29:51):
.
This is one of the ways, likewhat it doesn't mean to truly
take care of our bodies.
Um, there's many factors tothat, but as a feminine body, um
, this is how we can start.
If we understand just thoseenergetics alone, right, we
start to move more intoharmonious balance and this,
(30:12):
this, this, um, this paradigm ofhaving painful of, of the
acceptance of debilitating painin our womb and then being
brushed aside and saying oh, ohwell, that's common for X, y and
Z.
Or just take this and hopefullyit'll go away.
(30:33):
That's the acceptance of well,this is what women go through.
Yeah, we go through it, butwe're not supposed to be in so
much pain.
It's funny.
I see some Instagram videos andpeople.
(30:57):
There's like a simulator.
I don't know who made this, butit's a simulator that mimics
the contraction or the pain thatwomen have either in their
cycle when they bleed or, youknow, contractions while giving
(31:18):
birth.
Kena Siu (31:19):
Oh, the men are putting sound devices or
something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nicole Pemberton (31:23):
Yeah, and you know, and I find it really, you
know it was, I think it was justa demonstrate, like yo, you
think this is easy.
Oh, you think you just get overit.
You need to really experienceand feel what women are
experiencing.
And then, once they do, they'relike oh wow, you know, yeah,
(31:46):
you know, they go level one.
Oh my gosh, what is this?
Okay.
Then they're like that's notthere yet we go into level 10.
What?
And by level two, three, takeit off, take it off, take it off
.
Oh my God, oh my God.
You know it's a real thing, butat the same time, we're not
(32:12):
meant to have.
You know, labor is labor laboris labor but during our cycles
are not to be in.
We're not supposed to be in somuch pain.
And when we have that pain,there is underlying.
There's underlying physical,emotional, mental, um mental
components to that that we canaddress.
Kena Siu (32:33):
Can you mention some of them, or the more common ones
with the clients that you workwith?
Nicole Pemberton (32:43):
There's ancestral, there's a lot of
ancestral wounds.
Um, there's mother wounds.
It's so big, the mother, thefather, the father relationship,
it's, it's, it's a thing, butthe mother relationship it is a
big one.
(33:03):
Um, people pleasing andmartyrdom, like the exhaustion
and burnout, uh, the survivalmode, where you know there are
some, there are people, peoplehave no choice but to do x, y
and z.
You know, like, if you'reworking 10, 12 hours a day, like
um you, you know it's reallychallenging, you know, and so,
(33:30):
working with that, so you knowthe martyrdom of having to do
the it's almost like a badge ofhonor that we celebrate, of,
like, oh, she can do it all, oryou did all of that and get
support and it's like the nosupporters.
(33:53):
It's like, wow, you did all thatall by yourself, look at you,
right, but that's not really abadge of honor.
It's like the person neededsupport, yes, and they had to
step up and do it because therewas no other choice.
You had to make the money tofeed your family, you had to do
X, y and Z right, and so stress,huge Stress is a huge thing and
(34:22):
self-love like really what itis to really um, honor yourself
and put yourself first as apriority you know, it's not, not
in a like.
We're not talking narcissisticway, we're talking in a way that
you know, you again, what doesit mean to truly take care of
yourself, saying yes when it'sjust like you really shouldn't
(34:45):
have, because now you'reoverextending yourself and
you're burnt out?
Kena Siu (34:49):
yeah, but yeah, filling up our own cups first
yeah, yeah, yeah, um.
Nicole Pemberton (34:57):
there's a lot that has to do with um
intergenerational trauma.
I mentioned ancestral,ancestral, um lineage, um,
because there are things, thereare energy, stories, experiences
in our bodies that aren't ours.
They are ours but at the sametime, it's things that have been
(35:19):
unknowingly passed on, so, forexample.
So, for example, I got reallycurious and also frustrated with
(35:41):
when I was initially diagnosedwith having fibroids.
I kept hearing that, oh, thisis really common, for you know
black and brown and people ofcolor, and I kept asking well,
why is that?
Nobody could give me an answer,right?
Nobody in the medicalprofession could give me an
answer, and that bothered mebecause I'm like well, what's
(36:03):
the difference between me and aCaucasian person?
And they're like, we don't know.
Kena Siu (36:11):
And I'm like, why don't you?
Nicole Pemberton (36:13):
know why isn't there something you know?
And like, when I was lookingabout fibroids, it was like,
okay, had to do with.
They were saying hormones,estrogen dominance.
That was a big thing, a bigtalk, or it's just common.
(36:35):
You only had a couple ofauctions of hysterectomy or like
a surgery where they take theuterus out, or there's certain
procedures where they take itout by cutting it out, um, or
you just wait it out untilmenopause, right, uh.
(36:56):
But if you're wanting to haveif, if it, uh, if you want to be
conceived, and the if, the ifthe fibroids are there, that it
can hamper conception, um, andit can also, depending on when
they where, that it can hamperconception.
And it can also, depending onwhere they are, it can interfere
with the processes of thekidneys, the liver, the bladder,
you know.
So I was really curious aboutwhy.
(37:21):
Why does it affect more Blackand brown, indigenous people of
color, more than our Caucasiancounterparts?
So I thought about it andhere's my take on this the way
(37:46):
our environments are, becauseone of the things that we that,
uh, that is a factor is ourcultural upbringing and our
environment and what you know,what are?
We personally go through whatour parent, what our mother,
grandmother, great-grandmotherand so forth and so on.
What is the environments thatthey were in?
What was the culture?
(38:06):
What was you know?
How did they work, how did theylive?
How did they go through there?
What was their relationshipwith their womb?
What was you know, sex,whatever, the relationships and
all that, yeah, and and and youknow.
And if we look at that fromthat perspective, we can start
to see that, even with thescience of epigenetics, things
(38:30):
live in the body until they arecleared.
But we can also influence thatwithin ourselves.
If I look at, okay, what wasthe environment like, what was
the like, the, the, the culture?
Right, I'm a brown skin woman,right?
(38:53):
History has shown that our liveswere highly, were extremely
devalued, right, and we weresuppressed to the 18th degree.
And so life was survival do ordie, comply or die, right, you
(39:18):
do what you could for yourfamily so they could eat and
survive.
You have a little laugh hereand there, but life, life was
highly stressful.
So here we are in this societywhere we're like follow your
bliss, follow your dreams, goself-care Mondays and all of
these things, right, there wasnone of that, right, our
ancestors would be laughing atit be like, okay, great, that's
(39:41):
not how we lived, right.
So there was a huge amount ofstress.
There's a huge amount ofemotional, physical and mental
violence.
There was a huge amount oftrauma on the body, right when
(40:10):
we look at also how the practice, the intimate practice, of
gynecology came about, thefoundation of gynecology was
based on the extreme, grosstrauma and violation of young
Black and Indigenous girls.
Young Black and Indigenousgirls I don't say women, girls,
because these girls were justunder 18 years old, between 16,
(40:36):
17, and 18, the ones that weknow of, right.
And so their bodies were putthrough experiments without
anesthesia there was noanesthesia, whatever you know
and procedures where they cutinto the womb and multiple times
to figure out, to do how to dothese procedures.
(40:59):
And then they did theseprocedures on Caucasian women
with an anesthetic, withwhatever pain relieving medicine
, right.
So you have that imprint in thebody, right?
You have that imprint in thebody.
You have that imprint of manyof generations of women having
(41:23):
to give birth or having to birthor having gross mispractices on
their bodies, just based on thecolor of their skin and the
inferiority conditioning thatwas placed upon them.
So when you have all of that inthe cells, in the DNA, right.
(41:49):
You can now start to see thepattern.
We are still in a space of yes,we've evolved a bit, but we're
still in this space where blackand brown bodies are still
(42:09):
having to deal with huge amountsof stress, survival in a
different way.
You know, it's evolved.
We're in a space now that wecan unpack this.
We can unpack this and reallystart to look at okay, you know,
(42:32):
what are we doing right now?
Right, what are we doing rightnow?
How are we living?
How are we repeating what ourancestor, what our lineage was
doing, what they were surroundedwith, you know, are we getting
(42:54):
the care that we have access to,you know?
And so those are some of thefactors that I that's my theory,
it's not, it's not the be alland end all, that's my
investigation.
I'm like, huh, you know, wehave, we have, these are, these,
(43:17):
are these factors that havecontributed, you know, to X, y
and Z, right.
And so how can we giveourselves the safety?
Now, somebody else givingourselves the safety, how can we
give ourselves the safety ofreally nourishing and honoring
(43:39):
our bodies and moving in aharmonious rhythm that supports
our bodies, that supports ourwounds.
That supports our you know ourcreativity like blah, blah, blah
boom and also supports ourexistence.
Right, this is what it means tocreate your path to power.
Because when we understand andknow these resources that are
(44:01):
there, you know there is moreempowerment there.
So when we ask, there is moreempowerment there.
So when we ask when we can tuneinto our bodies and be like,
okay, things are happening,what's going on?
All right, I need this tea.
Oh, I need to take a couple ofdays off here.
Oh, I know my period's coming.
Okay, I'm going to get somemore castor oil.
(44:22):
Oh, this is happening.
Okay, what's the date?
Okay, yes, I'm.
You know, I'm in this phase,right, this part of my moon
cycle, perfect, yeah, let's goout on that date, you know, then
it happens.
Kind of subtle, but thingsstart to move in a more cohesive
(44:43):
way.
Kena Siu (44:44):
Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, oh, it makes the difference.
Because then we give us I mean,you know, the inner critic is
so harsh in our heads that whenwe realize, okay, this is
happening in my body, it's like,okay, I'm in this part of my
moon cycle.
And then when we get to honorit and say, oh, okay, I'm about
(45:06):
to bleed, you know, and thengiving ourselves that permission
, that grace to, okay, I amfeeling this way and I want to
do this or that because of whereI am at this moment in my moon,
as you said, there is more flowand ease and life gets better
(45:31):
because we change therelationship with ourselves, we
change the relationship with ourbodies.
Nicole Pemberton (45:46):
Yeah, bleeding .
What I've been taught is thatwhen we're not bleeding and
we're in that wise woman season,is that you follow it by the
seasons of the moon.
So the new darkest time, that'sthat's, you know.
One can follow that, you know,and acclimatize to that we can.
(46:10):
We can acclimatize and shiftour cycle to the seasons, to the
, to the, to the light anddarkness of the moon.
But if there's a marker,especially those who are in
menopause or just not bleedinganymore, that is where you can
like tune.
One can tune into is likereally paying attention to the
(46:34):
seasons of the moon.
Kena Siu (46:37):
Okay, so what do you mean?
Like when it's full moon, thenwe're going to relate to the
summertime.
Nicole Pemberton (46:45):
Okay, yeah, yeah, because it's light.
It's yeah, it's light, yeah,it's bright.
We're celebrating, we're likethere's more energy.
You can you notice that thefull moon is just like full moon
, let's go.
Yeah, so much energy and alsoare you know, there's a lot
that's going on energetically.
Kids are just wired up, youknow, on the on the full moon
(47:06):
and you know there's a lot ofenergy, right?
And then, when it starts todescend, it's just like all
right, here we go.
Well, not descend, but thelight starts to gently start to
transition to the new moon.
Kena Siu (47:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I would like to ask you youtalk about this at the very
beginning how can we gain thesovereignty of our own space?
Nicole Pemberton (47:39):
I think it's the expression.
It's the expression, it'sreally just standing our ground
(48:08):
and not being afraid to talkabout certain things, especially
our, for example, the time thatwe bleed.
It's very hidden, right, it'sheld in judgment.
Well, not judgment, it's heldin like you don't talk about it.
It's held in shame.
Or it's like don't let peopleknow about it, like hide your
tampon, hide your pad or whatnot.
(48:28):
Don't tell anybody that you'rebleeding.
You know, keep yourself clean.
You know it's like the shame oflike oh, you're messy, now I'm
not touching you.
I was like, who said I wantedyou to touch me?
No, but you know, it's like.
It's like, all of a sudden it'slike, oh, you're bleeding, okay
(48:50):
, get away from me.
And it's like, you know, like,like, just even shifting the
conversation of like this issuch a, this is such a potent
time for a girl, for a woman,that should be able to.
Our girls should be able totalk about it freely, you know,
(49:10):
with their friends or theirmother, or even with their
father, you know, and not belike oh, you're a guy, I can't
talk to you about this.
Yeah, you know, we should beable to have that support court,
(49:37):
you know, and that sovereigntyas well of like.
Let's say, a person wants toconceive or not to conceive,
they under once, when someoneunderstands, okay, the processes
of their bodies, you know as tolike, okay, this is the biology
, this is the science of likeyou know the temperature of the
body when we're so attuned toour cycles, like, you know when
(50:00):
you're going to ovulate, or youcan feel it or you can track it
right, that is power.
That is it right.
That is power, that issovereignty, right, because you
know.
You know, okay, I know when I'mfertile, juiced up, yeah, let's
get it right.
And then you know that on theother times, you're not Just
(50:23):
biologically, you won't beconceiving a child.
So you know, for like, forthose that are, you won't be
conceiving a child.
So you know, for like, forthose that are, you know that
are really concerned about like,okay, I don't want to get
pregnant, Okay, great, then youknow, know the cycles of your
know your body, right, that isautonomy, that is power for
yourself.
You know, then somebody elsetelling um what is going on in
(50:48):
your own body.
Yes, we need we owe what weneed that allopathic support you
know, for tests and things likethat.
But also it's really powerful toknow intimately, you know, um,
where you are in your cycle anduh, where um like, knowing even
(51:09):
the, the nectar from our, fromour yonis, like, even
understanding, like, okay, um,the, the smell, the consistency,
the, um, uh, that that you knowwhere you are.
You know, yeah, that's power.
You know To understand, justeven understanding one's energy,
(51:35):
right, and knowing when you arethe most creative, knowing
where you know you need to taketime to rest, you just know it.
You're not as productive, soyou know X, y and Z, right,
(51:57):
knowing what like, what turnsyou on, what makes you juicy,
what makes you like, um, justvery plumping and just like.
Yes, you know um, understandingand harnessing the energetics
of, of, of, of your connectionto the, to the land, to the
plants, to the herbs, to, to, um, to, to, to to the, the
feminine system, femininemasculine systems of the earth.
(52:20):
You know, um, this is, this isknowledge that was taken, that
was systematically taken awayfrom us, or they tried to take
it away from us, yeah, but thisis systematic knowledge that has
been reduced to certain ways oftalking and expressing about
(52:40):
the feminine body.
There is still so much in themedical field that has not been
researched or done properly onthe feminine body, but yet we
have so much on our malecounterparts.
Yeah, you know so, the morethat we know and we understand
(53:00):
our bodies.
This is body sovereignty.
This is really, it is.
It is really, um, revolutionaryin itself.
When you see people with thefeminist way, you know, like
women we're awesome andeverything.
Yeah, I mean it is.
It is radical to to, to keep to.
(53:23):
I'm taking a day off becauseI'm bleeding.
I know my head is.
I'm taking the day off and youwant to see how much ridicule I
already saw it in I think Idon't know where in the world,
but they put it in a corporatepolicy that women can have flex
day when they bleed, and theamount of just disgusting
(53:47):
comments from people rejectingthe idea, you know, is just
baffling.
Kena Siu (53:59):
And I guess that includes women, because if we
don't have that culture, if wedon't have the knowledge, we're
going to keep rejecting it untilwe don't know and we don't
experiment it.
Nicole Pemberton (54:11):
Yeah, so we are being revolutionary in
advocating for change, the careof our bodies and of our womb
space.
It is revolutionary and it islife changing.
Kena Siu (54:26):
Yeah, what are some of the of the practices that you
offer to women to connect backto our womb?
Nicole Pemberton (54:38):
My practice is largely movement based Cause I,
just because of my dancebackground um, you know, I was a
professional dancer for a goodwhile.
Good chunk of my you knowprofessional career and dance
has always been there, so, um,so, the embodiment piece the
(54:59):
dance piece is is huge, becausethis is where we really get to
connect and move the energy,move our bodies and unearth
traumas or emotional responsesusing the voice, really like,
letting the voice, the vocalactivation is really powerful
(55:21):
because a lot of the timesthings are, you know, energy is
stuck here and when they'restuck, they're stuck in our, in
our, in our yonis.
They are connected, right, yeah, vocal or activation being able
to say the things that maybeweren't able to say, or
restricted.
Or then we all feel it thatcontraction on our throat and
(55:41):
we're like, okay, and it's likeif you're contracted here,
you're contracted there, right.
Or then we all feel it thatcontraction on our throat and
we're like, okay, and it's likeif you're contracted here,
you're contracted there, right,there's no safety.
No safety to say what we wantto say, and so you know that
practice of like, okay, this isa space that we are creating
together what needs to be said,what sound that needs to come
(56:02):
out.
And so there's dance's dance,there's breath, there's, um,
sorry, vocal activation, uh,breath work, um, just that
breath.
Because, again, we're movingenergy right, yes, the body is
not, is not designed to hold instuff.
This is, this is part of whatthis ease comes from, because
(56:24):
but, but, yes, there's thephysical, but we're holding
emotional, right.
So we've got to get that energyto flow right, and so we got to
move the body right.
We notice that when we go tothe gym or we run, or we're in
one stage and you know, and thenwe run and we go, and then, all
of a sudden, we're just emptiedout.
We're just like, okay, we flushit out, we're sweating, we're
(56:46):
like, oh my gosh, but the mindis clear, right.
So dance does that right.
Dance allows us to access thoseemotions, to let it go to say
fuck you to whatever, to let itgo to say fuck you to whoever
(57:09):
you know, to allow, to allowthat to get unleashed.
So we can, we can, we can cry,we can get angry, we can get,
you know, sacred rage and bang apillow and get those emotions
out.
Right, we can lie down, yes,absolutely, it's great, but the
energy needs to move, and sothat's a big part of my resource
(57:30):
tool, val, is movement, breath,work, breathing, really getting
, just helping to process andalchemize that energy and sound
Also.
So that's on the embodimentside.
(57:58):
We do medicine, spirit journeyswhere we really go into the
ancestral line and really lookat, okay, where did the root of
these things, root patterns comefrom?
Right, and it's aninvestigative process and so we
get the lineage and thespiritual component to really
(58:20):
work with and harness thatfaculty.
We also look at the tangibleresources that can help to
support the womb yoni steaming,or what is also called vaginal
steaming, where you usemedicinal herbs, medicinal herbs
(58:42):
from the earth, specific plantsthat help to nourish, tonify
and and give um harmony andbalance to the womb with with
beautiful warming steam to helpreally bring back uh balance to
the, to the womb space.
So it really supports, itsupports uh the processes of the
(59:04):
of the womb and of the yoni inthe uterus, um.
So yoni steaming, um.
I mentioned castor oil pack.
Castor oil during the lutealphase is fabulous.
It like I, I, I, I'm mystifiedat how on how this oil works,
but it really does help theliver, it helps to detoxify?
Kena Siu (59:28):
Is it the one that is put in the belly button?
Nicole Pemberton (59:33):
Well, you can put it on your organs, your
kidneys, your liver, your spleen, and that oil just gets in and
it helps to detoxify, it helpsto flush things out.
So you know, you get up in themorning the next day, you have a
good elimination and you knowthe, the, the custard oil really
helps that.
So it really helps to detoxify.
(59:54):
So when there's extra excesshormones, you know it really
helps to.
You know, flush that out, out.
And we need the kidneys, weneed the, the liver to be
optimal to help to bring thingsto.
So to give it support so it cancome, bring more harmony into
the body.
Um, so castor oil is great forthat johnny eggs I.
Kena Siu (01:00:17):
I used the johnny egg for a long time, uh, when I
started my process of healing,and that definitely helped me.
Nicole Pemberton (01:00:26):
Yeah, it was a rose quartz, yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's, it's, it's really,it's really powerful.
It's not really my areaexpertise.
Our dear sister, uh, sabrinavedetti, is like um queen, oh
yeah, she's the queen of it.
She's actually been my teacherand also in yoni steaming, and
(01:00:48):
her sister Ariel is veryknowledgeable and she's a
clinical herbalist and reallyhelped to bring the knowledge of
herbs and just like even tolike understanding how they
support the body, and so theother resource that we have is
medicinal herbs teas.
Right, like if you were to havethree herbs to have a relation,
(01:01:15):
to start a relationship withstinging nettle.
Um, stinging nettle, stingingnettle is a is a mineral
powerhouse for the entire body,but it is so supportive to the
womb space.
Kena Siu (01:01:33):
Okay.
Nicole Pemberton (01:01:33):
Red raspberry.
It helps the flow, it helps toto nourish the blood and helps
to tonify the yoni, the uterus,it is so.
And also it's also mineral rich.
It's very, very potent.
Oh gosh, what was the other one?
(01:01:56):
Now I was saying to a sister Isaid my herbs are taking over my
pantry.
You know, I'm building such a,such a, such a, uh, um, a
library of herbs, um, oh,hibiscus, oh, okay, oh okay.
(01:02:28):
Hibiscus is so such a beautiful, nourishing herb, um, for the
body, and I and you know it'sfunny, I remember, I like if, if
, if, you're in the caribbean,um, there's a plant we call
sorrel and it's anothervariation of hibiscus, right,
and we would.
And hibiscus is red, right,plants have signatures.
So here's this red plant.
Red is associated with the blood, right, so we would drink this
(01:02:51):
all the time you know,especially when we go visit, you
know, go because I was born inCanada but my background is in
the Caribbean.
But when every time we visitthere and we go, we'd, you know
we'd have.
I couldn't wait to have sorrel,you know, and it was with sugar
and cinnamon and orange andwhatever.
Sometimes it was carbonate,it's just like yum, you know, I
(01:03:14):
never knew that it was avariation of hibiscus.
Okay, you know, we drink thisthing all the time.
I'm like, wow, this is part,this is like, this is part of
the medicine that we get fromfrom our families, from our,
from our lineage.
Right, this is, this is theplant medicine, right?
So hibiscus is beautiful forthe blood, right, red clover is
(01:03:48):
beautiful for the blood as well,to really help.
But I said three and I, I'mgonna, I'm gonna just highlight
nettles and red raspberry.
Okay, if even just these arebeautiful herbs to start with.
There are so many other herbsthat really support the body.
Um, but these are like like youcan't go wrong unless you know
a person is taking medicationand things and you know is
always want to be aware of.
(01:04:08):
Like any contradictions withwith herbs started with, you
know, with the discernment ofmaking sure it doesn't interfere
(01:04:29):
with person is takingprescription meds or anything
like that.
Kena Siu (01:04:31):
Thank you, wow.
Well, that's a whole package ofpractices that we can do.
Thank you so much for sharing.
I mean, I was taking notes, andI'm sure whoever is listening
is also taking notes becausethis is very, very powerful and
it is needed.
It is needed for women toconnect back to our wombs.
(01:04:52):
It is needed to come back tothat energy of our womb, that is
part of our body, because wehave been fragmented.
You know, the womb and theheart is there and the mind is
there.
No, we are one.
Our body, it's it.
It has all these elements.
That it's about putting thatwholeness together and by
(01:05:15):
honoring our wombs.
Yeah, it's a, it's a lifechanger, that's for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
Nicole Pemberton (01:05:21):
Yeah, it's, it's life changer that's for
sure.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I meanit is it completely, is it's a
game changer.
When we really honor that, whenwe honor it because you really
get to tune into your body, andwhen you do that, like I noticed
(01:05:45):
in myself, I do feel it.
I feel it when I know I'm aboutto bleed, I feel my energy
going.
Whoa.
And I feel that rise whenspring and summer season comes
through.
And you know like it, just likeeven just being able to, when,
(01:06:06):
like, like intimacy just becomeseven more, like woohoo.
You know, it's really likethings start to it's subtle, but
you start to really notice,like how your body, energies
respond.
You know when you're in certainparts of your cycle.
Kena Siu (01:06:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's so beautiful, yeah, so yummy.
So yeah to our listeners.
If you're a man, now you knowmore.
Nicole Pemberton (01:06:39):
And if you're a woman, please start.
Kena Siu (01:06:43):
Yeah, I mean, don't take this information for
granted, because it can.
It can change your life.
I mean, I'm a witness of that,and yeah.
So, nicole, before you canshare, what can people find you?
Would you like to add somethingelse to this conversation?
Nicole Pemberton (01:06:59):
Oh yeah, and just just to just to piggyback
on the men piece and like theseare healthy conversations that
we need to have with our men,with our boys, our sons, oh yes,
others, you know, likeespecially young girls, um, that
are just having their cycles.
They need to be comfortablewith talking to dad about this
(01:07:21):
and dad, even though you and ourfathers, fathers need to be it
may not be the most comfortablething for them to talk about,
but at the same time, it's likethey need that support just as
much.
You know, that nourishingsupport I keep saying nourish,
(01:07:41):
but it is that loving supportwhere they don't feel shame,
they don't feel that judgment ofbeing like, just ask, I'm not a
girl, but you know I'm here foryou.
That is gold, you know.
It really is gold for them tofeel comfortable to say, daddy,
(01:08:02):
I need a tampon or I need a padright now.
You know that that just justthose little things is just
really really, really valuable.
Um, so, yeah, that's uh, mendon't sleep on this conversation
either.
Um, because it's good for youto get comfortable with it.
Um, especially if, like youknow, a guy is brought up with
(01:08:24):
like like four or five sisters.
Kena Siu (01:08:27):
They're like well, you know, yes, you know Exactly.
Yeah, no.
But then also for women tounderstand yeah, this is your
cycle, there's nothing wrongwith you, nothing, just get the
knowledge.
Know yourself, connect to yourbody, because the truth is, the
(01:08:47):
wisdom of the body is infinite.
Nicole Pemberton (01:08:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I just wanted to just
bring that out there before Iforgot.
But, yeah, you can find me, um,on my website,
wwwthegoddessmovesspace.
Yes, space, okay, like that.
And yeah, I'm on socialsInstagram and Facebook is where
(01:09:16):
I'm most frequent, and so youcan just direct message me or
send, uh, send me an email, um,if you'd like to connect, um,
and so, yeah, those are theplaces you can find me.
Kena Siu (01:09:31):
Okay, I will put them on the show notes so people can
just click directly in there.
And two last questions.
How would you call this stageof your life, in of your midlife
, ripe?
Nicole Pemberton (01:09:54):
like like a good um, oh gosh, like a good
mango good mango, I love that.
Yeah, like a good mango.
I'm just I'm ripe, I'm not, youknow, and it's not like oh,
ripe, and then you're going togo down.
No, and just like, it's just,it's just, it's like it's that
(01:10:24):
that perfect state of a mangowhere it's just it's just the
right about a sweetness.
You dig into it and it's justlike juicy, it's yeah, perfect.
You just sit down on a, on a,uh, you sit down outside on a on
the front porch and you justyou got your napkin and whatever
and you dig in and it's likeyes, oh my God, my mouth is
watering.
(01:10:47):
Oh good, it's just like.
You know, michael, I rememberMichael Jackson saying I'm just
getting started Like let's go.
Yeah, it's just yeah, it's thattype of energy.
Kena Siu (01:11:03):
Awesome, oh, I love it , I love it.
Nicole Pemberton (01:11:09):
And what's a pleasure you enjoy the most?
Kena Siu (01:11:12):
Oh, the same thing I was thinking.
Nicole Pemberton (01:11:15):
actually, I thought about that.
It's probably going to be thesame thing.
Oh gosh.
Kena Siu (01:11:22):
One thing I enjoy the most Besides dancing because of
course you're the goddess moves.
Nicole Pemberton (01:11:42):
Yeah, I just I think you know those moments
where it's just like, oh, it'sgood.
Like you know, life is goodright now, like in this one was
like you're just looking aroundand like is life is good right
now.
Like in this one was likeyou're just looking around and
like is this my life right now?
Oh, you know, um, we, uh, Ihave the gamers of life.
They call them like when you butI I noticed those happens like
when I'm with you know, knowwhen I'm with other women and
(01:12:03):
we're just doing stuff, or youknow, with a group of people or
having food, music is on, oroutside at a concert, like
outdoor music festival orsomething, or it's just simple
things, sitting on a patiohaving, you know, just having a
nice drink and some good foodand just having good
(01:12:23):
conversation.
You know it's just those, thosemoments and like, let's say,
the weather is just like, theweather is perfect, and you know
it's just the perfect amount ofheat, the sun is setting, and
you know it's just a good nightor a good day and you're just
like man or a good day andyou're just like man, this life
(01:12:48):
is good right now.
I love those moments you know.
Kena Siu (01:12:51):
Yeah, yeah, I love those moments Beautiful.
Thank you so much for thisamazing conversation, nicole,
for sharing your wisdom, yourpresence, your beauty, your
energy.
I am so grateful to have youhere and, yes, much love to you.
Nicole Pemberton (01:13:11):
Thank you, kenna, blessings on all that
you're doing and all that peopleare receiving in this podcast.
I hope you all that arelistening and watching really
enjoyed it.
Yeah, thank you.
Kena Siu (01:13:24):
Thank you, I hope you all that are listening and
watching really enjoyed it.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for tuning intoMidlife Butterfly.
If this episode lead a spark inyou, hit that subscribe or
follow button on Apple Podcasts,spotify or whatever you love to
listen, so you'll never missthe magic.
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It helps this empoweringcontent reach more souls ready
(01:13:46):
to transform their lives.
And don't forget to take aphoto of you while listening and
share it on your socials.
You can tag me at Ken as you,so I can celebrate you and your
expansion.
Until next time, keep spreadingthose wings and living in joy,
growth and pleasure.
Are you ready to reconnect with your womb and
your body, to live with moreease and flow?
Nicole Pemberton from theGoddess Moves is here to share
her wisdom.
Midlife butterfly, a woman inthe sacred, in between.
She's not who she once was andnot quite who she's becoming.
(00:21):
Yet she's unraveling, awakening, remembering.
She's navigating lifetransitions divorce, loss,
reinvasion moves with a burningdesire for freedom, joy and
solid living.
She feels the pull to rise, tofly.
She's no longer afraid of herown wings.
(00:44):
Hello everyone, welcome back tothe Midlife Butterfly podcast.
This is your host, Kena Siu,and we have a super goddess in
here with us today.
She's a sister and also amentor from Temple Body Arts.
We met actually there and I amso glad to bring her here today
(01:06):
to share about all her wisdom.
She has so many trainings andcertifications, nicole Pemberton
, and we're going to talk mainlyabout the womb and femininity
and whatever else it flows.
So, nicole, welcome.
(01:29):
And Nicole is the creatrix ofthe Goddess Moves.
She supports multidimensionalwomen to cultivate deep
self-awareness, inner harmonyand develop a loving
relationship with their womb,space and body so that they can
break free from overwhelm,burnout and embody more
(01:50):
luxurious vitality, clarity,healing, joy and peace.
And among the whole list ofcertifications and wisdom that
she has gained, it comes she's awomb priestess, sacred activist
, a master, alchemical movementand ritual facilitator.
(02:10):
She's a writer, mentor, speaker, mystic channel, a certified
Akashic records reader, reikiand crystal energy practitioners
, certified trauma-informedpractitioner, as I mentioned
before, a temple buddy priestessand mentor, and the list goes
on and I'm going to share herdetails in the show notes so you
(02:34):
can, you know, dig in more incase you're interested after
this wonderful conversation thatis coming through.
So, nicole, welcome, welcome,it's a pleasure to have you here
, sister.
Nicole Pemberton (02:49):
It's awesome to be here and just be in this
sacred temple space.
Kena Siu (02:55):
Yes, thank you.
Well, I would like you to startwith where your story starts
and how the Goddess Moves bornoh goodness where my story
starts well, when?
Well, you know what I mean Imean whatever is more you know
(03:16):
relevant to where you are andthe wisdom that you share, to
helping women to reconnect totheir womb and their bodies.
Nicole Pemberton (03:27):
Yeah, it's really interesting to you know,
just be present with what is nowand then also to recognize the
journey, because, I mean, I'vebeen presently, I think, you
know, held space and facilitatedmovement journeys for over
(03:54):
250,000 humans children, adults,being a professional dancer at
a time and, you know, holdingspace for hundreds of women to
really be in their liberationand create their own path to
power and know the resources andhave hope to bring balance and
(04:18):
nourishment and sovereignty tothe womb space.
Um, and sovereignty to the wombspace, um, it's quite, it's,
it's like it's quite a somethingto say that this is what.
(04:39):
This is what I'm doing.
Yeah, um, because it it wasn'tto be in a space of leadership.
I never, you know, at one pointI never wanted to be in front
and I never wanted to be theleader.
And this work really brought meliterally on a steel sheet.
(05:02):
It brought me on a steel tablesheet and it was.
There's fluorescent lightseverywhere and you know, I'm
looking around and there'speople just moving about and you
(05:25):
know, and just being busy, andthen I'm seeing steel
instruments and then I see aperson with a mask saying hi,
nicole, this is so-and-so, I'myour anesthesiologist.
I'm going to count from 10 to 1and we're going to support you
(05:45):
know, and we're going to do whatwe need to do.
And so in that moment they weresaying, okay, we're going to
(06:12):
count down from 10 to one.
I was just praying that myuterus was going to be intact
and there was a possibility thatI could wake up without one.
And I was in that moment withlike this is just like surrender
, this is told us, I can't goanywhere again, like there's no
(06:34):
backing out, it's here it is.
And they say 10, nine, eightand a seven, six, five, four,
three and a seven, six, five,four, three.
And I'm out.
And I made a prayer before I wasout to just like, please, let
(07:05):
me just wake up, let everythinggo well, let them do what they
need to do and let me keep myuterus.
And so, when I woke up, I washearing babies.
I was hearing, I was literallyhearing cries of babies and I
realized later they told me thatI was in the cesarean ward, on
another side.
They had run out of room andI'm on the one far side and then
on the other side, babies werebeing born.
(07:27):
And as I'm waking up, and Irealized, okay, yes.
And then they told me yes, theygot everything out.
Took a little longer than theythought, but it got everything
out.
And in that moment I realizedthat you know this, I was
forever changed.
This process of, of, of reallyunder tuning into my, my womb,
(07:54):
my belly, like what?
The belly button below theuterus and all the processes it
does, and all the, the, theexperiences that I went through
to get to that landed me in thatspace.
I realized in that moment thatmy womb was going to be one of
my greatest teachers and it'sand it inspired to, to um, share
(08:22):
about the, the, but alsoadvocate for the womb, wellness
and also the cycles of ourbodies, and offer hope of other
(08:42):
resources that can help to bringharmony, bring easeful
menstrual cycles to, you know,release energy, like, create a
nourished environment for ourbodies so that we can, for our
(09:05):
bodies, so that we can be in athriving state.
When somebody told me that mymenstrual cycle was not, I was
not supposed to have pain.
I thought he was a unicorn.
I was like, yeah, get out ofhere.
That doesn't exist.
And little did I know thatthere are.
So there's so much that that,in this rite of passage of the,
the feminine, and being a womanand and really advocating and
(09:30):
and and standing for our bodies.
Um, a lot wasn't told and itwasn't, you know, to the fault
of anyone.
It's just that our societyreally does it does it's like
(09:50):
put it away, fold it neatly,keep it clean and don't tell
anybody.
Kena Siu (09:57):
Oh my God, so true.
Nicole Pemberton (09:58):
You know, and it's such a disservice for a
body that is responsible forhumanity, for creation of our
human existence, why wouldn't wewant to protect, nourish and
keep the center space of ourbodies um, sacred and uh uh,
(10:27):
with vitality, but also withrespect as well, you know?
Yeah.
Kena Siu (10:34):
so when you ask, when did it start this womb
advocation, it started from myown journey of my own wound
clearing wow, what a potentstory, and I mean, just when you
(10:55):
were telling me the prayer thatyou said I just hope that I'm
gonna wake up still with myuterus on and just gave me
chills like that's all sopowerful because I think we're
so disconnected from our bodiesand we take them for granted
most of the time and I guess,probably when we get to those
(11:17):
situations is when we reallyrealize that they are working
for us 24-7 and most likely wedon't have anything to do.
Right, and then realizing that,yeah, they are there for a
reason and they need respect andthey need to be honored and
there are better ways for us tolive.
(11:38):
We are not unicorns.
That's supposed to be the waythe body should between quotes
work if we will know how totreat it properly and we will
have, and if we will have theknowledge on how to do it.
And I think one of the thingsthat we missed in our society is
(12:00):
having that knowledge about ourmenstrual cycles that you said,
because when I was working withthe mentorship with you and
Sophia in Temple Body Arts,learning about our menstrual
cycles and how women operate ina complete different way of the
(12:25):
masculine, it just changed mylife literally.
So I would like you to talkabout the menstrual cycles and
how we can actually live withmore ease when we connect and
honor and respect our body whilegoing through these processes.
Nicole Pemberton (12:47):
Yeah, I mean it is, it is a, it's like it's
not even a trifecta, it's like a, it's a quadrifecta, if that's
even a word.
If it's not, I'm breaking it up.
Sounds good, but it's becauseit involves, like I like to call
(13:09):
it, our moon cycles, because weare connected to the moon.
The feminine is connected tothe moon, the masculine is
connected to the sun, sort oflike when you see Superman,
right goes up and he goes to thesun and gets rejuvenated and
he's like boom, he's ready tostart.
Well, our feminine bodies, weget rejuvenated by the moon,
right by the night sky.
(13:31):
Um, and and like every like,you know, in the year, 13 moons,
well, we have our 13.
You know, every year we have a13 moon cycle right.
So when we're looking at ourmoon cycles and I'm going to
call that from now on when we'relooking at our moon cycles and
(13:54):
how we flow, this is where theterm cyclical living comes
through, because if we honor theenergy of our you know the
different parts of our cycle wemove in a more harmonious rhythm
within our bodies, and so partof the problem that we have with
(14:17):
, for example, pms and you know,and how we can feel completely
depleted or we try to movethrough our bleeding time, is
because we're going against ourcycle.
Our society very much loves itand we see it everywhere when we
(14:43):
are in our ovulation phase,because this part of the cycle
is when our pheromones are like,hey, we're kicking.
Our body is just like we'reready.
We're just like we have ourpartners.
It's like come here, we'rejuicy, we're fertile and we're
(15:03):
expressive and we're like, yeah,woo, it's good.
Right, this is the images wemost likely will see of a woman
commercially, whatever that typeof energy of a woman is in the
ovulation phase.
Now I'm going to back up alittle bit, but that's what we
(15:26):
see, that is what we're expectedto be in all the time, and our
body's rhythms are not designedthat way, to be, in that
expressiveness all the time.
And here's where we run intoresistance, you know, with our
(15:47):
rhythms and with life, becauselife is life.
If we've got, you know, we'veall got things going on work,
family, kids, you know all thethings, right, right.
And so here's where we get tobe a bit radical and
revolutionary in this advocationof like, ok, really
(16:12):
understanding those rhythms.
So when we bleed, when we gointo the bleeding time, which is
referred to as wintertime or inthe scientific, you know,
scientifically, that's yourmenstrual, that's your bleed,
right, our body in that space,this is where we have the least
(16:36):
energy, this is where our bodyis shedding.
We have a natural detox thathappens every month.
So we have cleanses, we haveall these things and whatnot,
right, which they have theirplace.
But our bodies, naturally andbiologically, have a detox every
(16:58):
month, which is pretty cool,right?
So this is our time, wherewe're designed to go in, we're
designed to go internal andwe're designed to rest.
Now, and if we follow that andwe say to our job or wherever
(17:18):
our families and say mommy isbleeding, this is her time off,
we are going to encounterresistance.
What do you mean?
You understand.
Our bodies are designed to restat least a couple days so the
body can to shed the tissue,shed the lining, shed the blood,
(17:44):
so our bodies can naturallyflush itself out.
If we're not getting pregnant,this is what is happening, right
, and so that is our time toreally slow down, eat warm foods
, nourishing foods, lots ofminerals, and really and and and
(18:04):
notice the dreams, because ourcycles will um affect us.
Their cycles affect us on theemotional, physical, spiritual,
um and mental, right, and so wehave to honor all of them.
We can't just honor one or theother.
So the, the, the, the bleedingtime, that's when we want to
(18:26):
take as much rest as we can,right, then?
So this is where we want to putyour feet up, lie down, watch
some movies, get takeout, dowhat you need to do right, tell,
put people on notice, right,I'm working for.
Tell, put people on notice,right, I'm working for, even if
(18:49):
you have to work from home orjust tell, tell your spouse or
whatnot, I'm not doing anything.
I need my body's resting, okay,and this is one of the hardest
things to do in our.
This was, this is the hardestthing for me to do.
Right Is to like, notice and belike what's happening.
Oh, what am I doing?
Okay, how am I going to makethis fit?
It's, it's challenging in oursociety.
(19:11):
Yeah, most it is.
It's the most supportive toallow the rest of the cycle to
flow smoothly, right and lesspain, because we're in an
epidemic where pain is accepted.
Oh, that's so true, right.
(19:33):
Take a couple Advil and get onwith it.
Kena Siu (19:37):
Why?
Yeah, if it would take thattime to pause, take a little nap
, yeah, then you don't need apill.
Nicole Pemberton (19:45):
Yeah, right, the time to pause.
Take a little nap, yeah, thenyou don't need a pill.
Yeah right, we're in this.
We have this epidemic of likeokay, well, there's no time to
rest, there's no time to, we'vegot stuff to do, but and then we
pay for it later.
Kena Siu (19:58):
Yeah, and it's so true .
It's just not making the time.
The time is there.
It's about prioritizing what wewant to do.
I mean, of course.
I mean, if we have a nine tofive or something, yes, you said
probably try to work from homeor another way to sneak in, to
take it a bit slower duringthose days, that the body really
(20:20):
needs the rest and I think, asyou said, it has a lot to do
with how society works and youknow we are so into the doing.
Nicole Pemberton (20:29):
Doing all the time and the productivity,
whatever you know, mentalitythat is like no, like I'm at
full fault of of this, of doingthe opposite of what I just said
(20:52):
we need to do.
You know, and I've been, I'vebeen, I've, I've it's been a
hard lesson, it's been a hardpractice to really integrate
because, you know, there therewas no, there was no um, there
was no example of like to toslow down.
(21:15):
There, just every it was like,um, okay, life doesn't stop, so
I don't.
So so, mom, dad, don't stop.
I got to, you know, from when Ifirst got my period, I still
got to go to school.
There was no stopping.
You would have a tea, I'd havea tea at night and maybe rest or
(21:38):
get go to bed a little early,but you, but you still still
went, went, went, you stillstill got, did the things that
needed to do.
I was an athlete.
I remember having to run atrack meet and my period was
full on on day like day two, andI had wicked cramps and I put
on everything under the sun so Ididn't have to feel the pain,
(22:00):
so I could go and run.
You know that that was thementality that I was in.
So then, you know, later, andgoing deeper into this work and
then getting the guidance reallyclear.
The hardest thing you're goingto have to do is to, when you
bleed or on certain days of yourcycle, sit down and lie down
(22:25):
and don't do anything.
So this is so vital during ourmoon time, during the bleeding
time, and that's why the energyis low, because our hormones,
everything is shifting in thebody, everything is emptying out
.
Now, when we move on to what wecall the follicular phase, or
(22:50):
we say connecting to nature,it's spring, right.
This is when the energy nowstarts to rise.
This is when, okay, we've shedeverything.
Now we need energy to buildback up, build the lining in our
, in our vaginal walls, buildthe getting ready because
there's a possibility of makinga baby, right.
(23:13):
So all the resources are nowstarting to, you know, churn and
the hormones are starting topercolate and and get, and and
start to rise again, and thenwe're starting to get more
energy right, and so,spiritually and mentally, we're
starting to cook with ideas,Some of the things that came
(23:33):
through during the bleeding time.
Now it's like, okay, I got someenergy, now let's go.
We're starting to rev up andthe body is in that spring phase
, freshness, like ready to goout.
You're not at the peak of like,but it's starting to right.
So that rest period is now theenergy is elevated right.
(23:57):
So spring and summer are thebest times.
Like I said, summer is, likeyou know, ovulation juicy.
We're fertile, we're just likeyou know, we're very.
We have more energy to beexpressive external right.
So, spring and summer, if we'relooking at cyclically, this is
(24:20):
where you want to be out, thisis where you want to make plans,
this is where you want toschedule out.
This is where you want to makeplans, this is where you want to
schedule things.
This is where you really wantto amp up that creativity.
If you've got these ideas thatare like ba-bang, ba-bang,
ba-bang, get it down, because Ipromise you, once you start to
get into the luteal phase, it'sall gone.
And then you're like I had thisgreat idea.
I was like cooking the otherday and now I was like cooking
(25:06):
the other day and now I was likeyeah, yeah later.
And then you go back to it andyou're like wait, why am I not
so I should have?
You know, I should have.
This is your, this is yourspace.
This is your space becauseyou've got that energy right.
You can take more fresh fruitsand and raw and smoothies.
You know you can the, the, the,you can, you can have the food
that that you, that you have atthis time, your, your body can,
can, body can take more becauseit's that fresh summer energy,
(25:28):
it's that energy and your bodyis more can adapt to that, right
.
Once the ovulation phase startsto the summer phase, transition
into the luteal phase, right.
(25:48):
So let's say, okay, summer,you're all cooking and
everything it's great.
But no, you know you didn'tconceive, right, mm-hmm, um, the
follicle, the egg, starts to,uh, you know, disintegrate,
starts to, um, you know, uh, gointo the lining and we're
(26:20):
getting ready to shed, right.
So in that luteal phase, here'swhere, um, here's where the
body is now starting to go inagain, right.
So you may notice you want toto go in again, right.
So you may notice you want tohave a little bit more sleep in
the mornings.
Emotions may start to come up,because this is a time where
anything that needs mentally,physically, that needs to be
(26:40):
processed to really look at,here's the time where it's
really good to do that.
So by the time you get to thebleeding time again, your body
is flushing that out right, andso this is when we want to start
to slow down.
This is crucial for us to startto slow down, to not be as
(27:04):
active as we were in the springand summer, because the body is
now preparing to bleed right.
Conception didn't happen.
The body's now slowing down.
It's a little less energy.
Start to integrating those wornfoods again.
Um, castor oil pack on thebelly is so beautiful to help
(27:24):
prepare the womb to the, theuterine lining, to start to shed
right and honor the cravingsyeah, yeah, yeah.
See, here's the thing if we dothis right, those cravings will
lessen.
But if we're not in harmonywith our bodies, this is where
(27:47):
all the stuff starts to happenthe swelling in the breast, the
sugar cravings, the, the like,like, sometimes lashing out if
we're not properly processingour emotions.
You know, this is where, likethe wild can sometimes, if they,
if the, if those emotions don'tget addressed, then it's like,
unfiltered on, burnout,exhausted, like there is that,
(28:11):
that messy side to the wild, youknow, um, and so, yeah, it
means that.
Kena Siu (28:19):
That's why, when they said that we're in a pms, when
we know it's it wild you knowthe wild women coming out it's
really because we're nothonoring the whole cycle.
If we would really followaccordingly, those symptoms
between quotes will not be thatexplosive or that evident.
Nicole Pemberton (28:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kena Siu (28:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Nicole Pemberton (28:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, because we're more inharmony with our body yeah right
, you know, like, just thatalone.
Like there's, there's a there's,you know more to it of.
Like, you know what we eat andour environment, the stress
(29:06):
levels and, um, you know justhow we eat and our environment,
the stress levels, and you knowjust how we are community, you
know things that we clean ourhouse with and all that stuff.
But if we're just looking inaction, right, of how to move
more into cyclical living, if wejust have those principles of
(29:29):
like, okay, when we're bleeding,we're going to start to really
just take time to rest and gointernal, save the outdoor, save
the gatherings and the gettogethers and whatever.
Just tell people I'm notavailable and that's okay,
they'll get over it.
You're not available?
Yeah, right, you're notavailable, right, uh, cause this
(29:51):
.
This is one of the ways, likewhat it doesn't mean to truly
take care of our bodies.
Um, there's many factors tothat, but as a feminine body, um
, this is how we can start.
If we understand just thoseenergetics alone, right, we
start to move more intoharmonious balance and this,
(30:12):
this, this, um, this paradigm ofhaving painful of, of the
acceptance of debilitating painin our womb and then being
brushed aside and saying oh, ohwell, that's common for X, y and
Z.
Or just take this and hopefullyit'll go away.
(30:33):
That's the acceptance of well,this is what women go through.
Yeah, we go through it, butwe're not supposed to be in so
much pain.
It's funny.
I see some Instagram videos andpeople.
(30:57):
There's like a simulator.
I don't know who made this, butit's a simulator that mimics
the contraction or the pain thatwomen have either in their
cycle when they bleed or, youknow, contractions while giving
(31:18):
birth.
Kena Siu (31:19):
Oh, the men are putting sound devices or
something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nicole Pemberton (31:23):
Yeah, and you know, and I find it really, you
know it was, I think it was justa demonstrate, like yo, you
think this is easy.
Oh, you think you just get overit.
You need to really experienceand feel what women are
experiencing.
And then, once they do, they'relike oh wow, you know, yeah,
(31:46):
you know, they go level one.
Oh my gosh, what is this?
Okay.
Then they're like that's notthere yet we go into level 10.
What?
And by level two, three, takeit off, take it off, take it off
.
Oh my God, oh my God.
You know it's a real thing, butat the same time, we're not
(32:12):
meant to have.
You know, labor is labor laboris labor but during our cycles
are not to be in.
We're not supposed to be in somuch pain.
And when we have that pain,there is underlying.
There's underlying physical,emotional, mental, um mental
components to that that we canaddress.
Kena Siu (32:33):
Can you mention some of them, or the more common ones
with the clients that you workwith?
Nicole Pemberton (32:43):
There's ancestral, there's a lot of
ancestral wounds.
Um, there's mother wounds.
It's so big, the mother, thefather, the father relationship,
it's, it's, it's a thing, butthe mother relationship it is a
big one.
(33:03):
Um, people pleasing andmartyrdom, like the exhaustion
and burnout, uh, the survivalmode, where you know there are
some, there are people, peoplehave no choice but to do x, y
and z.
You know, like, if you'reworking 10, 12 hours a day, like
um you, you know it's reallychallenging, you know, and so,
(33:30):
working with that, so you knowthe martyrdom of having to do
the it's almost like a badge ofhonor that we celebrate, of,
like, oh, she can do it all, oryou did all of that and get
support and it's like the nosupporters.
(33:53):
It's like, wow, you did all thatall by yourself, look at you,
right, but that's not really abadge of honor.
It's like the person neededsupport, yes, and they had to
step up and do it because therewas no other choice.
You had to make the money tofeed your family, you had to do
X, y and Z right, and so stress,huge Stress is a huge thing and
(34:22):
self-love like really what itis to really um, honor yourself
and put yourself first as apriority you know, it's not, not
in a like.
We're not talking narcissisticway, we're talking in a way that
you know, you again, what doesit mean to truly take care of
yourself, saying yes when it'sjust like you really shouldn't
(34:45):
have, because now you'reoverextending yourself and
you're burnt out?
Kena Siu (34:49):
yeah, but yeah, filling up our own cups first
yeah, yeah, yeah, um.
Nicole Pemberton (34:57):
there's a lot that has to do with um
intergenerational trauma.
I mentioned ancestral,ancestral, um lineage, um,
because there are things, thereare energy, stories, experiences
in our bodies that aren't ours.
They are ours but at the sametime, it's things that have been
(35:19):
unknowingly passed on, so, forexample.
So, for example, I got reallycurious and also frustrated with
(35:41):
when I was initially diagnosedwith having fibroids.
I kept hearing that, oh, thisis really common, for you know
black and brown and people ofcolor, and I kept asking well,
why is that?
Nobody could give me an answer,right?
Nobody in the medicalprofession could give me an
answer, and that bothered mebecause I'm like well, what's
(36:03):
the difference between me and aCaucasian person?
And they're like, we don't know.
Kena Siu (36:11):
And I'm like, why don't you?
Nicole Pemberton (36:13):
know why isn't there something you know?
And like, when I was lookingabout fibroids, it was like,
okay, had to do with.
They were saying hormones,estrogen dominance.
That was a big thing, a bigtalk, or it's just common.
(36:35):
You only had a couple ofauctions of hysterectomy or like
a surgery where they take theuterus out, or there's certain
procedures where they take itout by cutting it out, um, or
you just wait it out untilmenopause, right, uh.
(36:56):
But if you're wanting to haveif, if it, uh, if you want to be
conceived, and the if, the ifthe fibroids are there, that it
can hamper conception, um, andit can also, depending on when
they where, that it can hamperconception.
And it can also, depending onwhere they are, it can interfere
with the processes of thekidneys, the liver, the bladder,
you know.
So I was really curious aboutwhy.
(37:21):
Why does it affect more Blackand brown, indigenous people of
color, more than our Caucasiancounterparts?
So I thought about it andhere's my take on this the way
(37:46):
our environments are, becauseone of the things that we that,
uh, that is a factor is ourcultural upbringing and our
environment and what you know,what are?
We personally go through whatour parent, what our mother,
grandmother, great-grandmotherand so forth and so on.
What is the environments thatthey were in?
What was the culture?
(38:06):
What was you know?
How did they work, how did theylive?
How did they go through there?
What was their relationshipwith their womb?
What was you know, sex,whatever, the relationships and
all that, yeah, and and and youknow.
And if we look at that fromthat perspective, we can start
to see that, even with thescience of epigenetics, things
(38:30):
live in the body until they arecleared.
But we can also influence thatwithin ourselves.
If I look at, okay, what wasthe environment like, what was
the like, the, the, the culture?
Right, I'm a brown skin woman,right?
(38:53):
History has shown that our liveswere highly, were extremely
devalued, right, and we weresuppressed to the 18th degree.
And so life was survival do ordie, comply or die, right, you
(39:18):
do what you could for yourfamily so they could eat and
survive.
You have a little laugh hereand there, but life, life was
highly stressful.
So here we are in this societywhere we're like follow your
bliss, follow your dreams, goself-care Mondays and all of
these things, right, there wasnone of that, right, our
ancestors would be laughing atit be like, okay, great, that's
(39:41):
not how we lived, right.
So there was a huge amount ofstress.
There's a huge amount ofemotional, physical and mental
violence.
There was a huge amount oftrauma on the body, right when
(40:10):
we look at also how the practice, the intimate practice, of
gynecology came about, thefoundation of gynecology was
based on the extreme, grosstrauma and violation of young
Black and Indigenous girls.
Young Black and Indigenousgirls I don't say women, girls,
because these girls were justunder 18 years old, between 16,
(40:36):
17, and 18, the ones that weknow of, right.
And so their bodies were putthrough experiments without
anesthesia there was noanesthesia, whatever you know
and procedures where they cutinto the womb and multiple times
to figure out, to do how to dothese procedures.
(40:59):
And then they did theseprocedures on Caucasian women
with an anesthetic, withwhatever pain relieving medicine
, right.
So you have that imprint in thebody, right?
You have that imprint in thebody.
You have that imprint of manyof generations of women having
(41:23):
to give birth or having to birthor having gross mispractices on
their bodies, just based on thecolor of their skin and the
inferiority conditioning thatwas placed upon them.
So when you have all of that inthe cells, in the DNA, right.
(41:49):
You can now start to see thepattern.
We are still in a space of yes,we've evolved a bit, but we're
still in this space where blackand brown bodies are still
(42:09):
having to deal with huge amountsof stress, survival in a
different way.
You know, it's evolved.
We're in a space now that wecan unpack this.
We can unpack this and reallystart to look at okay, you know,
(42:32):
what are we doing right now?
Right, what are we doing rightnow?
How are we living?
How are we repeating what ourancestor, what our lineage was
doing, what they were surroundedwith, you know, are we getting
(42:54):
the care that we have access to,you know?
And so those are some of thefactors that I that's my theory,
it's not, it's not the be alland end all, that's my
investigation.
I'm like, huh, you know, wehave, we have, these are, these,
(43:17):
are these factors that havecontributed, you know, to X, y
and Z, right.
And so how can we giveourselves the safety?
Now, somebody else givingourselves the safety, how can we
give ourselves the safety ofreally nourishing and honoring
(43:39):
our bodies and moving in aharmonious rhythm that supports
our bodies, that supports ourwounds.
That supports our you know ourcreativity like blah, blah, blah
boom and also supports ourexistence.
Right, this is what it means tocreate your path to power.
Because when we understand andknow these resources that are
(44:01):
there, you know there is moreempowerment there.
So when we ask, there is moreempowerment there.
So when we ask when we can tuneinto our bodies and be like,
okay, things are happening,what's going on?
All right, I need this tea.
Oh, I need to take a couple ofdays off here.
Oh, I know my period's coming.
Okay, I'm going to get somemore castor oil.
(44:22):
Oh, this is happening.
Okay, what's the date?
Okay, yes, I'm.
You know, I'm in this phase,right, this part of my moon
cycle, perfect, yeah, let's goout on that date, you know, then
it happens.
Kind of subtle, but thingsstart to move in a more cohesive
(44:43):
way.
Kena Siu (44:44):
Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, oh, it makes the difference.
Because then we give us I mean,you know, the inner critic is
so harsh in our heads that whenwe realize, okay, this is
happening in my body, it's like,okay, I'm in this part of my
moon cycle.
And then when we get to honorit and say, oh, okay, I'm about
(45:06):
to bleed, you know, and thengiving ourselves that permission
, that grace to, okay, I amfeeling this way and I want to
do this or that because of whereI am at this moment in my moon,
as you said, there is more flowand ease and life gets better
(45:31):
because we change therelationship with ourselves, we
change the relationship with ourbodies.
Nicole Pemberton (45:46):
Yeah, bleeding .
What I've been taught is thatwhen we're not bleeding and
we're in that wise woman season,is that you follow it by the
seasons of the moon.
So the new darkest time, that'sthat's, you know.
One can follow that, you know,and acclimatize to that we can.
(46:10):
We can acclimatize and shiftour cycle to the seasons, to the
, to the, to the light anddarkness of the moon.
But if there's a marker,especially those who are in
menopause or just not bleedinganymore, that is where you can
like tune.
One can tune into is likereally paying attention to the
(46:34):
seasons of the moon.
Kena Siu (46:37):
Okay, so what do you mean?
Like when it's full moon, thenwe're going to relate to the
summertime.
Nicole Pemberton (46:45):
Okay, yeah, yeah, because it's light.
It's yeah, it's light, yeah,it's bright.
We're celebrating, we're likethere's more energy.
You can you notice that thefull moon is just like full moon
, let's go.
Yeah, so much energy and alsoare you know, there's a lot
that's going on energetically.
Kids are just wired up, youknow, on the on the full moon
(47:06):
and you know there's a lot ofenergy, right?
And then, when it starts todescend, it's just like all
right, here we go.
Well, not descend, but thelight starts to gently start to
transition to the new moon.
Kena Siu (47:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I would like to ask you youtalk about this at the very
beginning how can we gain thesovereignty of our own space?
Nicole Pemberton (47:39):
I think it's the expression.
It's the expression, it'sreally just standing our ground
(48:08):
and not being afraid to talkabout certain things, especially
our, for example, the time thatwe bleed.
It's very hidden, right, it'sheld in judgment.
Well, not judgment, it's heldin like you don't talk about it.
It's held in shame.
Or it's like don't let peopleknow about it, like hide your
tampon, hide your pad or whatnot.
(48:28):
Don't tell anybody that you'rebleeding.
You know, keep yourself clean.
You know it's like the shame oflike oh, you're messy, now I'm
not touching you.
I was like, who said I wantedyou to touch me?
No, but you know, it's like.
It's like, all of a sudden it'slike, oh, you're bleeding, okay
(48:50):
, get away from me.
And it's like, you know, like,like, just even shifting the
conversation of like this issuch a, this is such a potent
time for a girl, for a woman,that should be able to.
Our girls should be able totalk about it freely, you know,
(49:10):
with their friends or theirmother, or even with their
father, you know, and not belike oh, you're a guy, I can't
talk to you about this.
Yeah, you know, we should beable to have that support court,
(49:37):
you know, and that sovereigntyas well of like.
Let's say, a person wants toconceive or not to conceive,
they under once, when someoneunderstands, okay, the processes
of their bodies, you know as tolike, okay, this is the biology
, this is the science of likeyou know the temperature of the
body when we're so attuned toour cycles, like, you know when
(50:00):
you're going to ovulate, or youcan feel it or you can track it
right, that is power.
That is it right.
That is power, that issovereignty, right, because you
know.
You know, okay, I know when I'mfertile, juiced up, yeah, let's
get it right.
And then you know that on theother times, you're not Just
(50:23):
biologically, you won't beconceiving a child.
So you know, for like, forthose that are, you won't be
conceiving a child.
So you know, for like, forthose that are, you know that
are really concerned about like,okay, I don't want to get
pregnant, Okay, great, then youknow, know the cycles of your
know your body, right, that isautonomy, that is power for
yourself.
You know, then somebody elsetelling um what is going on in
(50:48):
your own body.
Yes, we need we owe what weneed that allopathic support you
know, for tests and things likethat.
But also it's really powerful toknow intimately, you know, um,
where you are in your cycle anduh, where um like, knowing even
(51:09):
the, the nectar from our, fromour yonis, like, even
understanding, like, okay, um,the, the smell, the consistency,
the, um, uh, that that you knowwhere you are.
You know, yeah, that's power.
You know To understand, justeven understanding one's energy,
(51:35):
right, and knowing when you arethe most creative, knowing
where you know you need to taketime to rest, you just know it.
You're not as productive, soyou know X, y and Z, right,
(51:57):
knowing what like, what turnsyou on, what makes you juicy,
what makes you like, um, justvery plumping and just like.
Yes, you know um, understandingand harnessing the energetics
of, of, of, of your connectionto the, to the land, to the
plants, to the herbs, to, to, um, to, to, to to the, the
feminine system, femininemasculine systems of the earth.
(52:20):
You know, um, this is, this isknowledge that was taken, that
was systematically taken awayfrom us, or they tried to take
it away from us, yeah, but thisis systematic knowledge that has
been reduced to certain ways oftalking and expressing about
(52:40):
the feminine body.
There is still so much in themedical field that has not been
researched or done properly onthe feminine body, but yet we
have so much on our malecounterparts.
Yeah, you know so, the morethat we know and we understand
(53:00):
our bodies.
This is body sovereignty.
This is really, it is.
It is really, um, revolutionaryin itself.
When you see people with thefeminist way, you know, like
women we're awesome andeverything.
Yeah, I mean it is.
It is radical to to, to keep to.
(53:23):
I'm taking a day off becauseI'm bleeding.
I know my head is.
I'm taking the day off and youwant to see how much ridicule I
already saw it in I think Idon't know where in the world,
but they put it in a corporatepolicy that women can have flex
day when they bleed, and theamount of just disgusting
(53:47):
comments from people rejectingthe idea, you know, is just
baffling.
Kena Siu (53:59):
And I guess that includes women, because if we
don't have that culture, if wedon't have the knowledge, we're
going to keep rejecting it untilwe don't know and we don't
experiment it.
Nicole Pemberton (54:11):
Yeah, so we are being revolutionary in
advocating for change, the careof our bodies and of our womb
space.
It is revolutionary and it islife changing.
Kena Siu (54:26):
Yeah, what are some of the of the practices that you
offer to women to connect backto our womb?
Nicole Pemberton (54:38):
My practice is largely movement based Cause I,
just because of my dancebackground um, you know, I was a
professional dancer for a goodwhile.
Good chunk of my you knowprofessional career and dance
has always been there, so, um,so, the embodiment piece the
(54:59):
dance piece is is huge, becausethis is where we really get to
connect and move the energy,move our bodies and unearth
traumas or emotional responsesusing the voice, really like,
letting the voice, the vocalactivation is really powerful
(55:21):
because a lot of the timesthings are, you know, energy is
stuck here and when they'restuck, they're stuck in our, in
our, in our yonis.
They are connected, right, yeah, vocal or activation being able
to say the things that maybeweren't able to say, or
restricted.
Or then we all feel it thatcontraction on our throat and
(55:41):
we're like, okay, and it's likeif you're contracted here,
you're contracted there, right.
Or then we all feel it thatcontraction on our throat and
we're like, okay, and it's likeif you're contracted here,
you're contracted there, right,there's no safety.
No safety to say what we wantto say, and so you know that
practice of like, okay, this isa space that we are creating
together what needs to be said,what sound that needs to come
(56:02):
out.
And so there's dance's dance,there's breath, there's, um,
sorry, vocal activation, uh,breath work, um, just that
breath.
Because, again, we're movingenergy right, yes, the body is
not, is not designed to hold instuff.
This is, this is part of whatthis ease comes from, because
(56:24):
but, but, yes, there's thephysical, but we're holding
emotional, right.
So we've got to get that energyto flow right, and so we got to
move the body right.
We notice that when we go tothe gym or we run, or we're in
one stage and you know, and thenwe run and we go, and then, all
of a sudden, we're just emptiedout.
We're just like, okay, we flushit out, we're sweating, we're
(56:46):
like, oh my gosh, but the mindis clear, right.
So dance does that right.
Dance allows us to access thoseemotions, to let it go to say
fuck you to whatever, to let itgo to say fuck you to whoever
(57:09):
you know, to allow, to allowthat to get unleashed.
So we can, we can, we can cry,we can get angry, we can get,
you know, sacred rage and bang apillow and get those emotions
out.
Right, we can lie down, yes,absolutely, it's great, but the
energy needs to move, and sothat's a big part of my resource
(57:30):
tool, val, is movement, breath,work, breathing, really getting
, just helping to process andalchemize that energy and sound
Also.
So that's on the embodimentside.
(57:58):
We do medicine, spirit journeyswhere we really go into the
ancestral line and really lookat, okay, where did the root of
these things, root patterns comefrom?
Right, and it's aninvestigative process and so we
get the lineage and thespiritual component to really
(58:20):
work with and harness thatfaculty.
We also look at the tangibleresources that can help to
support the womb yoni steaming,or what is also called vaginal
steaming, where you usemedicinal herbs, medicinal herbs
(58:42):
from the earth, specific plantsthat help to nourish, tonify
and and give um harmony andbalance to the womb with with
beautiful warming steam to helpreally bring back uh balance to
the, to the womb space.
So it really supports, itsupports uh the processes of the
(59:04):
of the womb and of the yoni inthe uterus, um.
So yoni steaming, um.
I mentioned castor oil pack.
Castor oil during the lutealphase is fabulous.
It like I, I, I, I'm mystifiedat how on how this oil works,
but it really does help theliver, it helps to detoxify?
Kena Siu (59:28):
Is it the one that is put in the belly button?
Nicole Pemberton (59:33):
Well, you can put it on your organs, your
kidneys, your liver, your spleen, and that oil just gets in and
it helps to detoxify, it helpsto flush things out.
So you know, you get up in themorning the next day, you have a
good elimination and you knowthe, the, the custard oil really
helps that.
So it really helps to detoxify.
(59:54):
So when there's extra excesshormones, you know it really
helps to.
You know, flush that out, out.
And we need the kidneys, weneed the, the liver to be
optimal to help to bring thingsto.
So to give it support so it cancome, bring more harmony into
the body.
Um, so castor oil is great forthat johnny eggs I.
Kena Siu (01:00:17):
I used the johnny egg for a long time, uh, when I
started my process of healing,and that definitely helped me.
Nicole Pemberton (01:00:26):
Yeah, it was a rose quartz, yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's, it's, it's really,it's really powerful.
It's not really my areaexpertise.
Our dear sister, uh, sabrinavedetti, is like um queen, oh
yeah, she's the queen of it.
She's actually been my teacherand also in yoni steaming, and
(01:00:48):
her sister Ariel is veryknowledgeable and she's a
clinical herbalist and reallyhelped to bring the knowledge of
herbs and just like even tolike understanding how they
support the body, and so theother resource that we have is
medicinal herbs teas.
Right, like if you were to havethree herbs to have a relation,
(01:01:15):
to start a relationship withstinging nettle.
Um, stinging nettle, stingingnettle is a is a mineral
powerhouse for the entire body,but it is so supportive to the
womb space.
Kena Siu (01:01:33):
Okay.
Nicole Pemberton (01:01:33):
Red raspberry.
It helps the flow, it helps toto nourish the blood and helps
to tonify the yoni, the uterus,it is so.
And also it's also mineral rich.
It's very, very potent.
Oh gosh, what was the other one?
(01:01:56):
Now I was saying to a sister Isaid my herbs are taking over my
pantry.
You know, I'm building such a,such a, such a, uh, um, a
library of herbs, um, oh,hibiscus, oh, okay, oh okay.
(01:02:28):
Hibiscus is so such a beautiful, nourishing herb, um, for the
body, and I and you know it'sfunny, I remember, I like if, if
, if, you're in the caribbean,um, there's a plant we call
sorrel and it's anothervariation of hibiscus, right,
and we would.
And hibiscus is red, right,plants have signatures.
So here's this red plant.
Red is associated with the blood, right, so we would drink this
(01:02:51):
all the time you know,especially when we go visit, you
know, go because I was born inCanada but my background is in
the Caribbean.
But when every time we visitthere and we go, we'd, you know
we'd have.
I couldn't wait to have sorrel,you know, and it was with sugar
and cinnamon and orange andwhatever.
Sometimes it was carbonate,it's just like yum, you know, I
(01:03:14):
never knew that it was avariation of hibiscus.
Okay, you know, we drink thisthing all the time.
I'm like, wow, this is part,this is like, this is part of
the medicine that we get fromfrom our families, from our,
from our lineage.
Right, this is, this is theplant medicine, right?
So hibiscus is beautiful forthe blood, right, red clover is
(01:03:48):
beautiful for the blood as well,to really help.
But I said three and I, I'mgonna, I'm gonna just highlight
nettles and red raspberry.
Okay, if even just these arebeautiful herbs to start with.
There are so many other herbsthat really support the body.
Um, but these are like like youcan't go wrong unless you know
a person is taking medicationand things and you know is
always want to be aware of.
(01:04:08):
Like any contradictions withwith herbs started with, you
know, with the discernment ofmaking sure it doesn't interfere
(01:04:29):
with person is takingprescription meds or anything
like that.
Kena Siu (01:04:31):
Thank you, wow.
Well, that's a whole package ofpractices that we can do.
Thank you so much for sharing.
I mean, I was taking notes, andI'm sure whoever is listening
is also taking notes becausethis is very, very powerful and
it is needed.
It is needed for women toconnect back to our wombs.
(01:04:52):
It is needed to come back tothat energy of our womb, that is
part of our body, because wehave been fragmented.
You know, the womb and theheart is there and the mind is
there.
No, we are one.
Our body, it's it.
It has all these elements.
That it's about putting thatwholeness together and by
(01:05:15):
honoring our wombs.
Yeah, it's a, it's a lifechanger, that's for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
Nicole Pemberton (01:05:21):
Yeah, it's, it's life changer that's for
sure.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I meanit is it completely, is it's a
game changer.
When we really honor that, whenwe honor it because you really
get to tune into your body, andwhen you do that, like I noticed
(01:05:45):
in myself, I do feel it.
I feel it when I know I'm aboutto bleed, I feel my energy
going.
Whoa.
And I feel that rise whenspring and summer season comes
through.
And you know like it, just likeeven just being able to, when,
(01:06:06):
like, like intimacy just becomeseven more, like woohoo.
You know, it's really likethings start to it's subtle, but
you start to really notice,like how your body, energies
respond.
You know when you're in certainparts of your cycle.
Kena Siu (01:06:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's so beautiful, yeah, so yummy.
So yeah to our listeners.
If you're a man, now you knowmore.
Nicole Pemberton (01:06:39):
And if you're a woman, please start.
Kena Siu (01:06:43):
Yeah, I mean, don't take this information for
granted, because it can.
It can change your life.
I mean, I'm a witness of that,and yeah.
So, nicole, before you canshare, what can people find you?
Would you like to add somethingelse to this conversation?
Nicole Pemberton (01:06:59):
Oh yeah, and just just to just to piggyback
on the men piece and like theseare healthy conversations that
we need to have with our men,with our boys, our sons, oh yes,
others, you know, likeespecially young girls, um, that
are just having their cycles.
They need to be comfortablewith talking to dad about this
(01:07:21):
and dad, even though you and ourfathers, fathers need to be it
may not be the most comfortablething for them to talk about,
but at the same time, it's likethey need that support just as
much.
You know, that nourishingsupport I keep saying nourish,
(01:07:41):
but it is that loving supportwhere they don't feel shame,
they don't feel that judgment ofbeing like, just ask, I'm not a
girl, but you know I'm here foryou.
That is gold, you know.
It really is gold for them tofeel comfortable to say, daddy,
(01:08:02):
I need a tampon or I need a padright now.
You know that that just justthose little things is just
really really, really valuable.
Um, so, yeah, that's uh, mendon't sleep on this conversation
either.
Um, because it's good for youto get comfortable with it.
Um, especially if, like youknow, a guy is brought up with
(01:08:24):
like like four or five sisters.
Kena Siu (01:08:27):
They're like well, you know, yes, you know Exactly.
Yeah, no.
But then also for women tounderstand yeah, this is your
cycle, there's nothing wrongwith you, nothing, just get the
knowledge.
Know yourself, connect to yourbody, because the truth is, the
(01:08:47):
wisdom of the body is infinite.
Nicole Pemberton (01:08:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I just wanted to just
bring that out there before Iforgot.
But, yeah, you can find me, um,on my website,
wwwthegoddessmovesspace.
Yes, space, okay, like that.
And yeah, I'm on socialsInstagram and Facebook is where
(01:09:16):
I'm most frequent, and so youcan just direct message me or
send, uh, send me an email, um,if you'd like to connect, um,
and so, yeah, those are theplaces you can find me.
Kena Siu (01:09:31):
Okay, I will put them on the show notes so people can
just click directly in there.
And two last questions.
How would you call this stageof your life, in of your midlife
, ripe?
Nicole Pemberton (01:09:54):
like like a good um, oh gosh, like a good
mango good mango, I love that.
Yeah, like a good mango.
I'm just I'm ripe, I'm not, youknow, and it's not like oh,
ripe, and then you're going togo down.
No, and just like, it's just,it's just, it's like it's that
(01:10:24):
that perfect state of a mangowhere it's just it's just the
right about a sweetness.
You dig into it and it's justlike juicy, it's yeah, perfect.
You just sit down on a, on a,uh, you sit down outside on a on
the front porch and you justyou got your napkin and whatever
and you dig in and it's likeyes, oh my God, my mouth is
watering.
(01:10:47):
Oh good, it's just like.
You know, michael, I rememberMichael Jackson saying I'm just
getting started Like let's go.
Yeah, it's just yeah, it's thattype of energy.
Kena Siu (01:11:03):
Awesome, oh, I love it , I love it.
Nicole Pemberton (01:11:09):
And what's a pleasure you enjoy the most?
Kena Siu (01:11:12):
Oh, the same thing I was thinking.
Nicole Pemberton (01:11:15):
actually, I thought about that.
It's probably going to be thesame thing.
Oh gosh.
Kena Siu (01:11:22):
One thing I enjoy the most Besides dancing because of
course you're the goddess moves.
Nicole Pemberton (01:11:42):
Yeah, I just I think you know those moments
where it's just like, oh, it'sgood.
Like you know, life is goodright now, like in this one was
like you're just looking aroundand like is life is good right
now.
Like in this one was likeyou're just looking around and
like is this my life right now?
Oh, you know, um, we, uh, Ihave the gamers of life.
They call them like when you butI I noticed those happens like
when I'm with you know, knowwhen I'm with other women and
(01:12:03):
we're just doing stuff, or youknow, with a group of people or
having food, music is on, oroutside at a concert, like
outdoor music festival orsomething, or it's just simple
things, sitting on a patiohaving, you know, just having a
nice drink and some good foodand just having good
(01:12:23):
conversation.
You know it's just those, thosemoments and like, let's say,
the weather is just like, theweather is perfect, and you know
it's just the perfect amount ofheat, the sun is setting, and
you know it's just a good nightor a good day and you're just
like man or a good day andyou're just like man, this life
(01:12:48):
is good right now.
I love those moments you know.
Kena Siu (01:12:51):
Yeah, yeah, I love those moments Beautiful.
Thank you so much for thisamazing conversation, nicole,
for sharing your wisdom, yourpresence, your beauty, your
energy.
I am so grateful to have youhere and, yes, much love to you.
Nicole Pemberton (01:13:11):
Thank you, kenna, blessings on all that
you're doing and all that peopleare receiving in this podcast.
I hope you all that arelistening and watching really
enjoyed it.
Yeah, thank you.
Kena Siu (01:13:24):
Thank you, I hope you all that are listening and
watching really enjoyed it.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for tuning intoMidlife Butterfly.
If this episode lead a spark inyou, hit that subscribe or
follow button on Apple Podcasts,spotify or whatever you love to
listen, so you'll never missthe magic.
If you're feeling generous,drop a review on Apple Podcasts.
It helps this empoweringcontent reach more souls ready
(01:13:46):
to transform their lives.
And don't forget to take aphoto of you while listening and
share it on your socials.
You can tag me at Ken as you,so I can celebrate you and your
expansion.
Until next time, keep spreadingthose wings and living in joy,
growth and pleasure.
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