June 13, 2025 • 43 mins
We explore the crisis of male friendships and how it affects men's mental health and relationships, particularly in midlife. The episode unpacks why men are increasingly isolated and offers practical solutions for rebuilding meaningful connections.
• Only 26% of men report having six or more close friends, down from 55% in 1990
• 17% of men report having zero close friends
• Many married men mistakenly count their wives' friends' husbands as their own friends
• Competition, vulnerability fears, and the "man box" prevent men from forming deep friendships
• Male loneliness often manifests as addiction, overwork, irritability, or withdrawal
• Men are taught to project being "alright" even when struggling
• The TCS model (Text weekly, Call monthly, See quarterly) offers a framework for maintaining friendships
• Younger generations are showing more openness to vulnerability in male friendships
• Women can support by modeling connection, inviting dialogue, and being "soft landing places"
• Men benefit from joining organizations and participating in shared activities with other men
Men, you don't have to be alone. If you're in any kind of pain or anguish, remember you are worthy. You deserve to be here for your friends, family, and most importantly, for yourself. Reach out and get help if you need it.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Wayne (00:05):
you've just stepped into the midlife revolution,
unleashed your space to ignitepossibility, redefine purpose
and embrace the power that comeswith age and experience,
co-hosted by yours truly, coachand I'm coach stacy m lewis.
Stacy (00:21):
We are-season coaches focused on the midlife community
of color.
This isn't just a podcast.
It's a movement In a world thatsometimes forgets the power and
the wisdom that comes with age.
We are here to ignite arevolution and rewrite the
narrative of this incrediblejourney.
Wayne (00:42):
So, whether you're navigating your career, growing
your business, rediscoveringpassions or challenging the
status quo, this is your space.
So buckle up, let's dive intothe Midlife Revolution Unleashed
.
We made it.
(01:04):
We made it.
Hello, we are here anotherTuesday with you as our friends,
listening to Midlife RevolutionUnleashed.
We welcome you.
Stacy (01:22):
Stacy, what do you have to say about this new week?
What I have to say is I havebeen dealing with some vertigo,
so it's been quite the spinnyweek.
But welcome to our MidlifeRevolution Unleashed listening
audience.
It is indeed our honor to haveyou here, and if you are
catching us, live, hey, hey now.
(01:43):
If not.
And if you are catching us,live, hey, hey now.
If not, enjoy the replay.
My name is Stacy M Lewis.
I am a nonprofit executive, Iam a lover of God and his people
and I am a coach with anemphasis on midlife women, and
it is always a joy to be hererecording going live with
(02:07):
Midlife Revolution Unleashed andmy beautiful, handsome,
wonderful co-host, coach Wayne.
Wayne (02:15):
She's talking about me y'all.
Yeah, thank you, ms Stace.
It is wonderful always everyTuesday when we get together and
the energy is great.
We throw it out there with thepublic.
As you know, I'm Coach Wayne,the VIP coach.
I help men 40 and up or what wecall midlife typically kind of
saunter through, so that theyland their best half of their
(02:37):
life, the second half, Stacy,that brings us to an interesting
show today, and you've beengraceful to allow me really to
feel this topic, and it's aboutmen and their friendships.
In fact, from a New York Timesarticle that you shared with me,
called when have All my DeepMale Friendships Gone, by Sam
(03:00):
Graham Felsen, we got some ideasand I said, Stace, this is
going to make quite a show.
So today, you know, there's athing happening A lot of men,
even with people around them allthe time, are going through
(03:22):
loneliness, are going throughloneliness and we want to talk
about that because it's afeeling of not measuring up,
being unworthy oftentimes andjust not allowing themselves to
let go and release from that manbox.
And today I'm going to betalking about stuff that the
(03:45):
literature all over the place isalluding to, and that is men
are afraid today, especially menof color, black men, of being
vulnerable for some reasonbecause it makes them look soft.
And so here's one book, the manBox Breaking Out of the man box
, and Tony Porter talks about it.
But he's not the only oneBrother.
(04:08):
We have a habit of not allowingourselves to get closer to
another brother because we thinkit makes us look soft, or
effeminate and
Stacy (04:23):
Stacy
Wayne (04:23):
I'll shut up after I say this or effeminate and Stacy
I'll shut up after I say this.
But one of the things that wehave noted is that men,
especially as they get older,they typically don't make
friends as readily as they didin the college years.
And so, like I can speak formyself, I have, maybe, on one
hand, brothers that I can callbrethrens, like autical, as we
(04:44):
say in Jamaica, friends, andthese are men that I've known,
for the most part at least 15years, one or two recently, but
the majority of them are olderthan that, and it's just easier
to run like that Stacy.
Stacy (05:01):
Yeah, I think that there's such richness here and,
if I could take a half a stepback, I find the subject matter
fascinating because A it'ssomething we don't talk about a
lot the value of friendships inthe male gender, the what
(05:27):
happens to their friendshipsover time and how that impacts
us as women, as people, right,dealing with men.
And I found the article sofascinating in that one thing
that I never really consideredwas that many men say they have
(05:55):
friends.
Many grown married, maybe weremarried, maybe have children,
maybe not.
But really in the season oflife where they say they have
friends but it turns out thatthey really don't, they have a
spouse or a partner and herfriends have spouses and those
(06:23):
are his friends.
And so I thought that that wassuch a profound thought, because
I'd never really looked at itthat way and for some of our
listening audience, they mayhear that and be like yeah, we
all know that.
Well, sorry, I didn't know.
I was quite taken aback by thatreality.
(06:47):
We see it at our familycookouts and we go to an event
with couples and you see thatthe gentlemen seem like they're
cool or they're friends, butthey're not really friends.
And so I think that this is areally great opportunity to have
(07:09):
a meaningful, rich conversation.
We definitely want to welcomeDia and welcome Delane and
everyone else in the listeningroom tonight as we talk about
this idea of the male friendshipgap and why it matters to women
.
Wayne (07:28):
Thank you, that's true, Stacy.
I'm going to steal a glance andlook over my other screen where
the stats are, and it says only26% of men have six plus close
friends, and which number wentdown since 1990 when it was 55%,
(07:48):
right, so men are findingthemselves less let me use this
word loosely endeared tofriendships with other men, and
17% of us report having zeroclose friends.
Stacy (08:04):
That's a lot.
Wayne (08:07):
That's a lot.
Stacy (08:08):
That's a lot.
That's a lot of men, a lot ofpeople that don't have one close
friend.
Yeah, that's a lot.
Wayne (08:22):
You know, stace, one of the things I and here is
conjecture, but one thing that Iknow we're built oftentimes to
compete and a lot of times thatneed to compete gets in the way
of men getting together tocollaborate.
Getting together to collaborate, and you know, when you have a
(08:53):
friendship, the idea is, yes,there was going to be a lot of
competition, but typically youwant to make sure that those
rivalries are friendly.
I think part of the and nothaving friends as we get older
is that whole competition arenathat we are raised to belong to
and believe in so you can trust,because it's about you know,
(09:13):
getting to know, like and trustpeople and in terms of longevity
and duration, when you havefriends over a period of time,
they're tested and proven.
Then you know there is nocompetition about that friend.
They secure their space.
When you meet someone else, astime is going on, you may be
(09:34):
working in business or aneighbor, or just you know
someone that shows up on theradar, another male.
It's kind of like if you'veseen most animals in the wild.
When you have two males thatare in the same pride or pot,
there's usually going to beconflict, right?
(09:56):
Because of that need to push upthe chest and compete, and I
kind of feel like we still havesome of that with us by way of
our training and culture.
Stacy (10:07):
Yeah, it's interesting because one of the things we
talked about we had a full showeverybody in the green room
before this episode went live,so I will refer to one of the
things we talked about Listeningto you.
It just reminds me of that ideaof the slow fade, right, that
(10:28):
some of these male social normsthat you're talking about, like
competition, the roasting eachother, throwing jabs at each
other, don't necessarily fosterbonding and that it happens over
time.
Right?
The article talked about theslow fade of the male friendship
(10:53):
.
That happens, you know, throughthe college years, if that's
your route or through thoseearly working years into
marriage or a partnership, intofatherhood, into career or
business building, and all ofthose processes or those steps
(11:15):
add to this loss or the shift inthe friendships going down.
Hopefully we don't go down tozero.
Wayne, I know you're not aszero, but I'm still stuck at the
17% report, having zero closefriends.
Wayne (11:32):
Yeah, part of it too.
I think Stacy speaks to men notwanting to appear needed, and I
know for a fact that women willcall each other and say, hey,
girl, such is happening, youknow, get some advice and ask
for support, advice and help.
Brothers typically don't feelcomfortable doing that.
(11:54):
One is the vulnerability.
The other thing, it makes usfeel needy.
So to call on a brother,especially if it's not typically
we don't call each other everyweek, every you know.
So when you do call a brother,and as you get older too, what
takes on is the form of anotherfamily that you're formed.
So your friends that you hadyears ago are now focused,
(12:16):
probably more so, on buildingtheir families or being in
another role, as a father and aspouse, and so the idea that you
hanging out and calling yourboy it kind of goes down.
You know, you get together,maybe have some brewski and
watch the game and a barbecueonce in a while, but that's not
an every night thing.
There are women who haverelationships where they check
(12:38):
in on a weekly basis or they goshopping and they do things
together and that's kind of coolin that culture.
But when men do that, it looksa little off and if you're
calling your boy to say, hey,man, I'm feeling some kind of
way, you're like that's too raw,it looks needy and nobody wants
to hang out with a guy who isgoing to say I'm bleeding, you
(13:01):
know.
And there's another book that Iwant to talk about, and an
author, real briefly, and thisis Jason Wilson.
This is one of his books.
I have a second one too, battleCry, and he talks about the
comprehensive man, and thecomprehensive man I call it the
holistic man is a man who iswell-rounded, so you know, he
has what I spoke on recently ina podcast with somebody else.
(13:25):
He has a divine you and I spokeabout Stacy, the divine
masculine and the divinefeminine.
You know you have to sort ofintermarry both of those parts
of self to be comprehensive andwhole parts of self.
To be comprehensive and whole,you have to be wholesome, to be
(13:45):
healthy, right, and again, I'mjust popping all the books.
My good brother here just wrotethis book, brother Paul
Randolph Newell Heal Thy man,healthy man, and that's what
it's all about.
It's really all about findingyour true self.
But we don't want to feelexposed and naked as men, so we
(14:07):
typically don't make friendsthat get too close and can see
the authentic self, thehalf-filled self, not the whole
self self, not the whole self.
Stacy (14:24):
Well, I think that the challenge, and really the
premise of the article and partof the discussion right, is that
that often leads to isolation.
Whether it's behind the mask orshifting priorities, the
cultural norm, all of that leadsto isolation.
And so my first question forthe women is as a woman, what
signs have I missed that the menin my life were disconnected or
(14:50):
lonely?
And for women we have to makesure we're not always taking
this personally right you may belonely even if you're there.
Hi Curtis, it's good to see youin the house this evening.
So what signs might we bemissing?
(15:12):
Or even, as we reflect, whenmay we have seen a sign and not
necessarily acknowledged it orattributed it to his feeling
disconnected or lonely?
Wayne (15:31):
Yeah, that's a good question.
You know this is a verycontroversial book, but the dude
is well known.
We talked about it in the greenroom, David Dita, we talked
about it in the green room.
Stacy (15:41):
David, dita, and that was a controversy.
Wayne (15:44):
Yeah, I'm just saying controversy and he posits a
theory.
He says that men who spend toomuch time with their women and
women who with their men spendtoo much time I was there Very
few outside friendships andrelationships.
You know Audrey, always my bestfriend, but uh, and to be
(16:05):
honest, these days I've beenspending a lot more time alone
because I work from home and sheworks out.
But when she's home we hang out, we do things together.
I rather go to the gym with herthan alone and that stuff.
But there is an extreme men whospend too much time with their
women, he says.
According to this guy, thisauthor, they take on some of the
(16:27):
woman's femininity.
Let me explain.
And the women take on themasculinity, that is to say the
nurturing aspect, the so-calledfeminine divine of the male,
which is, let's say, the womanlikes to cuddle or just curl up
and watch a movie and read.
Or when you pass, you got togive her a kiss and you got to
(16:48):
tell her a hundred times I loveyou.
You mean a lot.
That's Audrey.
Then men start taking on thatbecause they have to appease and
you know, they say happy wife,happy life, so to speak.
So men start taking on thoseattributes and lose out.
He says for men to regain theirmasculinity, they got to be
(17:12):
more around men.
Now, that's not to say that themen are effeminate in any way.
I'm talking about the divinemasculine and the divine
feminine in us.
So what he says is when menalso, and women, spend time in
isolation, especially when menare not taking on friends, you
(17:35):
have to get more time inisolation and say no to a lot of
the things that would allow youto be distracted from finding
your inner wholesome self, yourmasculine energy, masculine self
, if that makes sense.
So I have a buddy.
Every year he goes on a silentretreat in the woods, and he
(18:01):
finds his purpose renewed whenhe does that.
So I guess to some extentthat's what this is saying, that
for us to be in tap with ourfullest masculinity, we either
have to surround ourself withmore of the male energy or we
got to be in solitude off themale energy or we got to be in
(18:26):
solitude.
Stacy (18:31):
Hmm, yes, so sorry that my face was so contorted during
that one.
That was one that Wayne and Iwe were bantering back and forth
a little bit, and I believe Idon't necessarily have to agree,
I did not read the book.
Let me be clear about that,because I think that there's an
interesting dynamic there whenyou talk about that.
The masculine energy can berenewed, either amongst other
(18:55):
men or in solitude, was.
It's interesting to me thatconcept and one that we'll have
to, we'll have to talk moreabout, we'll have to deep dive.
Let's talk about Wayne, how,maybe how loneliness shows up or
(19:17):
how some of this experience oflack of those types of
connections, those importantconnections, show up.
Wayne (19:26):
Yeah so, and one may say but that's what happened when
you're with the guys.
But a lot of time theloneliness shows up when a man
is out there and he's notconnecting.
Because connection,irrespective of how great chat,
gpt and AI is, the one thingthat it doesn't do for us is
(19:48):
give us a soul to soulconnection.
It does connect.
I was up one night, I remember,and I told Audrey and I tapped
in to do some research and itsaid hello, wayne, why are you
up so late?
I was like I'm out of here,that was too much for you.
(20:10):
But one of the things that ismissing and we need to have that
, to be honest is trueconnection at the heart level,
at the soul level.
And so sometimes, you knowagain, going back to that whole
competitive sharing with menwhen, typically when, when your
(20:34):
wife comes in and speaks to youabout an issue we talked about
this before the nurturing aspectof women allows them to process
the thing they want, to justtalk it through.
You know, men typically want toset a goal and accomplish it.
We have to find an end to it.
(20:55):
That's the whole conquer andconquest and compete.
We got to fix it.
And so sometimes, when men gettogether, they're able to just
get to the point and fix it all.
They don't want to talk itthrough and all that, and they
need each other for that.
And so when they don't havethat, the process of loneliness
(21:17):
sets in and they will sit down,sometimes we and stew which
invites, drinking which invites,you know, addictions in some
other ways.
Right, I didn't know this, butand this may not be around the
(21:38):
male to male connection.
This may be obviously aboutintimacy, but a large portion of
men are addicted to porn and Imean, like you know, I've had a
few clients who spoke to me atdifferent age levels about that,
and that's another thingaltogether.
(22:01):
That's happening there a needto express, a need to rule over,
need to conquer, because,listen, in an intimate sexual
relationship with yoursignificant other, you get
feedback, right.
So if you are doing somethingthat she's not in for, she's
going to tell you no.
Well, in pornography, men areconquering.
(22:25):
Oftentimes Men are doing whatthey want to do and there's no
feedback.
It's just what it is.
Sometimes, when you have thatsort of energy and I don't mean
sexual energy to your friend,but with all that energy of
being broken off and having trueconnections.
Those things are more likely tohappen than I think when you
(22:50):
surround yourself with genuinefriends and you can speak
through your issues, if thatmakes sense.
Stacy (22:58):
I think it's a great example that you use, because
we're talking about how theloneliness, how the
disconnection, how not havingmale friends, can show up.
And what you really justhighlighted was the possibility
(23:18):
of addiction or acting out inways really clinging to a
productivity or clinging to abad habit, identifying or
over-identifying with workthings that cause them to be
disengaged even from the othersin their life.
(23:41):
Right, it shows up in thatdisconnection with not just men
that you may not have afriendship with, but it could
show up with a disconnection oras a disconnection or
irritability with the women orthe people in your life.
(24:02):
Right that you're really actingout this experience of
loneliness in ways that areunhealthy.
And I can certainly reflect onan experience when in a
relationship, an intimaterelationship, where that
(24:27):
disconnection, know, and thatthere was no real friend that he
had I guess he was in that 17%that we referred to earlier,
right, so there's no one toreally talk about with, even the
(24:50):
issues he might be having inthe relationship, because he's
in that 17% with with the zerofriends.
So I just really think thatthis idea of understanding for
women in particular,understanding how loneliness can
show up in men, is a valuablelesson, even if you don't need
(25:16):
it right now.
Wayne (25:17):
Yeah, another book and this is the last one I promised
that I'd refer to tonight isthis book Be the man by Garrett
White, and he says that men arealways lying.
Oops, I shouldn't have donethat.
But he says men are alwayslying, and let me get into how
he explains that.
Because we wear a mask.
(25:40):
Curtis will appreciate this.
He speaks on that on hispodcast.
By the way, curtis and his wife.
They're celebrating theiranniversary tomorrow.
Congrats, curtis.
Stacy (25:50):
Happy anniversary Curtis and bride.
Wayne (25:54):
And he says Garrett White .
He says, because men are sobusy wearing the mask and not
being true to themselves and tothe rest of the world, they are
lying to themselves.
If you tell a lie long enough,you start believing it.
And so you know, typically,when us men, when we meet each
other and we say yo, what's up,dude, everything cool, yeah, how
(26:17):
you doing, I'm all right, I'mall right, is what we say to
each other, very seldomly do weget to the truth and say well,
you know, things are not lookingso good, can't meet the
mortgage this month.
I need you to spot me alone,I'm having some problem in the
house sexually.
(26:38):
What do you think?
Men don't share those kinds ofthings.
We are all right.
And because we walk aroundtelling ourselves that story, we
got to believe it.
That's what happens when youlie to yourself.
It just, it's a cycle.
And when we do this Stacy, it'sa lonely road.
(27:00):
Because you can't share the lie, you got to hold on to it.
And it gets us into a placewhere not only is there denial
but there is harm.
And because we're not comingout fully, we wind up oftentimes
with self-harm.
And I think it speaks to therise of suicide in men.
I don't have the numbers, butsuicide for men has shot up, and
(27:25):
for black men too, because wefeel like we got to carry it
alone and we don't.
If only we would trust enoughand open up enough to tell
someone.
Because guess what?
The men who oftentimes do theseacts of self-harm and suicide
typically don't look likethey're about to do it.
(27:45):
They show up and they're incharge.
They're running corporations,they're doing things with their
family and you think they'regoing to show up.
They take a ride somewherequietly and they blow them their
brains out.
You never knew.
But the lie eventually becomessuch a web that they, they weave
(28:05):
it.
They can't get out of it.
And um, um, just a shout out Ifanybody knows anyone who is
crying out for help or is too,too strong in a way that they
probably have a fissure and theyneed some help, Check in on
your boy, check in on them andmake sure that you're there for
(28:27):
them.
Stacy (28:28):
Well said.
There are definitely resourcesthat we should all be accessing,
if not for ourselves, for thosethat we care about and, as
Curtis said, no, men don't sharethose things with each other
and certainly that is somethingthat I believe we can all
(28:49):
encourage a sense of change.
Wayne, you and I also talkedabout in the green room some of
the nuances in generations andhow some of the men in younger
generations and they have swunga pendulum.
(29:27):
So, from that isolationism orthe sense of masculinity, the
masculine armor of not beingable to be their authentic,
vulnerable selves, I've seenable to be their authentic,
vulnerable selves.
I've seen, at least within someof my son's cohort, them swing
that pendulum to the point wherethey are.
They have a few of thosetrusted friends where they can
(29:48):
be their real, authentic self,where they can say that they're
hurting, where they can sharewhat they're afraid of, and I
think it's such a greatopportunity.
You and I had a conversation anumber of episodes ago about
multi-generationalism right andhow there's so much to learn
(30:13):
from different generations, andI'm hoping that even as we age,
we can still utilizeopportunities to look at other
generations and see how they mayhave been able to swing this
pendulum and really rebuild orestablish from a point of
(30:36):
reconnection, not from a pointof isolation.
Wayne (30:40):
That's powerful and thanks for sharing and bringing
that up again, Stacy.
There is truly a difference.
Notice of a difference acrossgenerations.
Uh, I think I belong to thelast of the baby boomers, just
at the end, the cusp, and thegeneration after me has a more
liberated sense.
Stacy (31:02):
Yes.
Wayne (31:05):
And then the millennials as well, and certainly the Zs,
are totally open, you know, evento the point where gender
identification is sometimes tous, the older generation, a
little bit confusing.
But what has happened isbecause of so much of the trauma
that the older we are, thecloser we were to it
(31:25):
generationally, the more lockedin and protective we are of that
space.
And so when it comes to peoplein our space, there is this
distrust.
Oftentimes the walls have beenleveled a lot more with time and
you know, listen, I growing upI didn't know how brothers in
(31:45):
Africa were living, but todayit's easy to have great
friendship with folks,friendships with folks across
the pond and across the water,because those barriers are down
and you can build more enduringrelationship.
You can with more transparency,more understanding, more trust
and so forth, and it's easierfor men to then the younger
(32:10):
generation to share in a moreauthentic way their feelings and
connections across the boardwith each other and oftentimes
don't feel as threatened as ifit's taken away their manhood.
So that happens, I think.
Stacy (32:29):
So, wayne, talk about your TCS model, this, this idea
of reconnection.
Right, we talked a lot aboutthe downsides of being isolated,
of men lacking friendships, yetwe certainly would never want
to depart an episode on adownside note or as if there is
(32:53):
no hope.
We are all on a growthtrajectory, so let's talk about
that a little bit, wayne whatreconnection can look like.
Wayne (33:02):
Stacy, you're just the perfect co-pilot.
I keep drifting off.
We're supposed to be going toBarbados but, if you allow me,
we land up somewhere in HongKong.
So you keep redirecting theroad.
Teamwork teamwork, babe,teamwork, okay, I love it.
So, tcs model, here's arecommendation, and it's not
mine wholly, but the idea isthat if you're building
(33:28):
friendships and you can you'renot too late, too old to have it
and it's important.
Nobody wants to spend theirlast years alone.
Trust me, t is talk or callonce a week.
I think that's the yeah, weekly.
I'm sorry, I thought your T wastexting.
Stacy (33:49):
It is text, it is text.
I'm always trying to keep upwith Wayne it is text.
Wayne (33:53):
I'm always trying to keep up with Wayne, always trying to
keep up, keep redirecting thenavigating.
It is texting, t for textingText, at least once a week, and
then C is call, call is at leastonce a month and S is see, or
connect visually, once everyquarter.
(34:13):
It's a model that helps tosustain and even refresh a
relationship, helps to build afriendship.
You got to feed it.
I have friends, like I said, for30 years, and we talk maybe on
Father's Day which reminds me Igot to call them this Sunday and
we talk maybe Christmas or NewYear's.
(34:37):
We forget birthdays, but when weget it, we get it.
Man, nobody really gets madabout that, you know, and it's
cool, you know, because we knowwe bona fide friends.
But I could do a better job andI trust, trust me, when I
haven't heard from my boys in along, long time, I don't call
them necessarily to say yo, man,what's up, I missed you.
But I do, you know, and it'simportant, I think if you have a
(35:04):
system like we just talkedabout, you know, send a text
just to say what's up, you sawthe game once a week, you know,
make that call.
Hey, how's the family?
Congratulations.
See your kid graduated once amonth and uh right, or the end
of a quarter, you know.
Connect with your boy.
Now that may mean Zoom for alot of people, but listen, you
(35:28):
can probably take the drive orfly if that's necessary and do
something together too.
Stacy (35:34):
Well, I think, in this age of technology, right, we at
least do have Zoom to your pointwhere we can do that quarterly,
face-to-face, even if it's notin person.
What I'd like about thepresentation of the model is
that friendships requireintention, and, you know,
(35:56):
texting, calling and seeing onsome type of consistent basis
requires intention, and it'sjust one way we want to really
support and encourage thenormalization of friendships in
men, of true, heartfelt,vulnerable friendships in men.
(36:22):
As a woman, all I can do isencourage it.
Thus why we're having thisconversation.
Right, we really want to.
We are not meant to do thisalone.
I don't have a scripture, butI'm sure that there's one
brewing in the back of my mind,but we really are not meant to
(36:43):
do this alone.
And this idea of so many men,such value that they add to
families, to communities, tojobs, to the business sector, of
this population, of peoplesuffering because of lack of
(37:06):
friendship, suffering inisolation, does not have to be.
And so you know, we can look ator frame friendship as fitness,
and it requires some reps,right that you were talking
about the texting, the calling,the seeing.
And it requires intention, andour hope here is that you've
(37:31):
gleaned a little something andeven as women, we can support
when we see the approach or theattempt even at rekindling
friendships or reconnecting withmen, the men in your life,
reconnecting with men in a waythat is healthy and
(37:55):
strengthening and empowering.
Wayne (37:58):
Yeah, and Stacy, if you're a guy, get an
organization that you can belongto participate in.
Do an activity.
It doesn't have to be vigoroussports or whatever, but just
something where you have othermen around you to keep your
testosterone up.
But, seriously speaking, it'sjust important, I think, that
(38:22):
men recognize that you don'thave to do this alone.
I think that men recognize thatyou don't have to do this alone
, and sometimes it's a littlebit uncomfortable if it's only
your significant other that youcan share with, because
sometimes guys just don't wantto be taken for granted, and
that happens when you have along lasting relationship or an
intimate relationship.
Sometimes you just want to getinput from someone that has
(38:45):
proper.
Sometimes you just want to getinput from someone that has
proper discernment, not awayward man who's going to take
you off the path Right, but justto have that encouragement and
somebody else, especiallybrothers who are in pain and are
alone.
Brothers, listen, seriously,I'm going to look straight in
the camera.
You don't have to be alone.
I'm going to look straight inthe camera.
(39:09):
You don't have to be alone.
If you're in any kind of painor anguish, you are worthy.
You deserve to be here for yourfriends, family or, more
importantly, for yourself.
So reach out and get help ifyou need that.
Stacy (39:18):
Absolutely, absolutely.
My words of encouragement tothe women of the midlife
Revolution Unleashed audienceare twofold One, we want to be a
model, but not apply pressure.
It doesn't have to be our way.
We want to invite dialogue butrespect the space.
(39:40):
And, as importantly, we want tobe a soft landing place for men
, not just our intimate partners.
I have a brother, and itreminds me that even in my
conversation with him as anolder sister, I still have the
(40:03):
opportunity to be a soft landingspace, somewhere where he can
just be, and it doesn't meanthat I'm expecting him to fix
anything or make anything better, but he's just allowed to be
present.
And so I encourage women tomake sure that they are
(40:27):
bolstering themselves up in wayswhether it be with their
friendships, their closefriendships, but in ways that
support them being a softlanding space for the men in
their lives.
Wayne (40:38):
That's it.
And Stacy, as always, I'mavailable.
If there is a brother out therewho needs some kind of support,
who needs support in terms of,uh, hold on to afford you know,
I'm happy to refer them out.
And if they need some coachingup just to figure out to get to
(40:59):
the next level, I'm there forthat Stacy.
How can the sisters reach outto you?
Stacy (41:05):
Stacy, how can the sisters reach out to you?
Oh, I'm always available.
Wayne (41:24):
If you are here on Facebook or LinkedIn, you know
how to reach me through DM, butI can always reach through my
website at thestacymlewiscom.
What's going on with you, sirWayne?
Hey, Stace, I would say goahead and hit the site
VIPTransformativeLivingcom.
You'll see all of my handlesthere, my link tree and all my
handles.
Just DM me or send me an emailand I'll be getting right back
at you so that we can be betterwhen I see you at the top.
Stacy (41:43):
Yes, yes, yes, I'm just going to give a moment of
accountability when I see you atthe top.
Yes, yes, yes, I'm just goingto give a moment of
accountability.
So, as Wayne builds hiscommunity of men of support, of
encouragement, of empowerment,he'll keep you posted.
Wayne (41:59):
Thank you, Stacy.
Let's say bye to the folks fornow.
Stacy (42:02):
God bless.
Wayne (42:04):
See you next week.
Have a good night.
Thank you for joining us.
And there you have it, folks,this week's episode of the
Midlife Revolution Unleashed.
Hey, we truly appreciate yourspending this time In this space
with us.
Join us next week At the sametime as we dive into relevant
(42:26):
topics and present solutions tospark new thinking and empower
your midlife journey.
Stacy (42:34):
And don't forget if you enjoyed today's episode, let us
know in the comments and shareit with others.
And, of course, remember tosubscribe, share like.
Hit that notification bell.
You are the midlife revolutionunleashed.
I'm Coach Stacy and I'mcheering you on.
Wayne (42:54):
And I'm Coach Wayne and I'll see you at the top.
you've just stepped into the midlife revolution,
unleashed your space to ignitepossibility, redefine purpose
and embrace the power that comeswith age and experience,
co-hosted by yours truly, coachand I'm coach stacy m lewis.
Stacy (00:21):
We are-season coaches focused on the midlife community
of color.
This isn't just a podcast.
It's a movement In a world thatsometimes forgets the power and
the wisdom that comes with age.
We are here to ignite arevolution and rewrite the
narrative of this incrediblejourney.
Wayne (00:42):
So, whether you're navigating your career, growing
your business, rediscoveringpassions or challenging the
status quo, this is your space.
So buckle up, let's dive intothe Midlife Revolution Unleashed
.
We made it.
(01:04):
We made it.
Hello, we are here anotherTuesday with you as our friends,
listening to Midlife RevolutionUnleashed.
We welcome you.
Stacy (01:22):
Stacy, what do you have to say about this new week?
What I have to say is I havebeen dealing with some vertigo,
so it's been quite the spinnyweek.
But welcome to our MidlifeRevolution Unleashed listening
audience.
It is indeed our honor to haveyou here, and if you are
catching us, live, hey, hey now.
(01:43):
If not.
And if you are catching us,live, hey, hey now.
If not, enjoy the replay.
My name is Stacy M Lewis.
I am a nonprofit executive, Iam a lover of God and his people
and I am a coach with anemphasis on midlife women, and
it is always a joy to be hererecording going live with
(02:07):
Midlife Revolution Unleashed andmy beautiful, handsome,
wonderful co-host, coach Wayne.
Wayne (02:15):
She's talking about me y'all.
Yeah, thank you, ms Stace.
It is wonderful always everyTuesday when we get together and
the energy is great.
We throw it out there with thepublic.
As you know, I'm Coach Wayne,the VIP coach.
I help men 40 and up or what wecall midlife typically kind of
saunter through, so that theyland their best half of their
(02:37):
life, the second half, Stacy,that brings us to an interesting
show today, and you've beengraceful to allow me really to
feel this topic, and it's aboutmen and their friendships.
In fact, from a New York Timesarticle that you shared with me,
called when have All my DeepMale Friendships Gone, by Sam
(03:00):
Graham Felsen, we got some ideasand I said, Stace, this is
going to make quite a show.
So today, you know, there's athing happening A lot of men,
even with people around them allthe time, are going through
(03:22):
loneliness, are going throughloneliness and we want to talk
about that because it's afeeling of not measuring up,
being unworthy oftentimes andjust not allowing themselves to
let go and release from that manbox.
And today I'm going to betalking about stuff that the
(03:45):
literature all over the place isalluding to, and that is men
are afraid today, especially menof color, black men, of being
vulnerable for some reasonbecause it makes them look soft.
And so here's one book, the manBox Breaking Out of the man box
, and Tony Porter talks about it.
But he's not the only oneBrother.
(04:08):
We have a habit of not allowingourselves to get closer to
another brother because we thinkit makes us look soft, or
effeminate and
Stacy (04:23):
Stacy
Wayne (04:23):
I'll shut up after I say this or effeminate and Stacy
I'll shut up after I say this.
But one of the things that wehave noted is that men,
especially as they get older,they typically don't make
friends as readily as they didin the college years.
And so, like I can speak formyself, I have, maybe, on one
hand, brothers that I can callbrethrens, like autical, as we
(04:44):
say in Jamaica, friends, andthese are men that I've known,
for the most part at least 15years, one or two recently, but
the majority of them are olderthan that, and it's just easier
to run like that Stacy.
Stacy (05:01):
Yeah, I think that there's such richness here and,
if I could take a half a stepback, I find the subject matter
fascinating because A it'ssomething we don't talk about a
lot the value of friendships inthe male gender, the what
(05:27):
happens to their friendshipsover time and how that impacts
us as women, as people, right,dealing with men.
And I found the article sofascinating in that one thing
that I never really consideredwas that many men say they have
(05:55):
friends.
Many grown married, maybe weremarried, maybe have children,
maybe not.
But really in the season oflife where they say they have
friends but it turns out thatthey really don't, they have a
spouse or a partner and herfriends have spouses and those
(06:23):
are his friends.
And so I thought that that wassuch a profound thought, because
I'd never really looked at itthat way and for some of our
listening audience, they mayhear that and be like yeah, we
all know that.
Well, sorry, I didn't know.
I was quite taken aback by thatreality.
(06:47):
We see it at our familycookouts and we go to an event
with couples and you see thatthe gentlemen seem like they're
cool or they're friends, butthey're not really friends.
And so I think that this is areally great opportunity to have
(07:09):
a meaningful, rich conversation.
We definitely want to welcomeDia and welcome Delane and
everyone else in the listeningroom tonight as we talk about
this idea of the male friendshipgap and why it matters to women
.
Wayne (07:28):
Thank you, that's true, Stacy.
I'm going to steal a glance andlook over my other screen where
the stats are, and it says only26% of men have six plus close
friends, and which number wentdown since 1990 when it was 55%,
(07:48):
right, so men are findingthemselves less let me use this
word loosely endeared tofriendships with other men, and
17% of us report having zeroclose friends.
Stacy (08:04):
That's a lot.
Wayne (08:07):
That's a lot.
Stacy (08:08):
That's a lot.
That's a lot of men, a lot ofpeople that don't have one close
friend.
Yeah, that's a lot.
Wayne (08:22):
You know, stace, one of the things I and here is
conjecture, but one thing that Iknow we're built oftentimes to
compete and a lot of times thatneed to compete gets in the way
of men getting together tocollaborate.
Getting together to collaborate, and you know, when you have a
(08:53):
friendship, the idea is, yes,there was going to be a lot of
competition, but typically youwant to make sure that those
rivalries are friendly.
I think part of the and nothaving friends as we get older
is that whole competition arenathat we are raised to belong to
and believe in so you can trust,because it's about you know,
(09:13):
getting to know, like and trustpeople and in terms of longevity
and duration, when you havefriends over a period of time,
they're tested and proven.
Then you know there is nocompetition about that friend.
They secure their space.
When you meet someone else, astime is going on, you may be
(09:34):
working in business or aneighbor, or just you know
someone that shows up on theradar, another male.
It's kind of like if you'veseen most animals in the wild.
When you have two males thatare in the same pride or pot,
there's usually going to beconflict, right?
(09:56):
Because of that need to push upthe chest and compete, and I
kind of feel like we still havesome of that with us by way of
our training and culture.
Stacy (10:07):
Yeah, it's interesting because one of the things we
talked about we had a full showeverybody in the green room
before this episode went live,so I will refer to one of the
things we talked about Listeningto you.
It just reminds me of that ideaof the slow fade, right, that
(10:28):
some of these male social normsthat you're talking about, like
competition, the roasting eachother, throwing jabs at each
other, don't necessarily fosterbonding and that it happens over
time.
Right?
The article talked about theslow fade of the male friendship
(10:53):
.
That happens, you know, throughthe college years, if that's
your route or through thoseearly working years into
marriage or a partnership, intofatherhood, into career or
business building, and all ofthose processes or those steps
(11:15):
add to this loss or the shift inthe friendships going down.
Hopefully we don't go down tozero.
Wayne, I know you're not aszero, but I'm still stuck at the
17% report, having zero closefriends.
Wayne (11:32):
Yeah, part of it too.
I think Stacy speaks to men notwanting to appear needed, and I
know for a fact that women willcall each other and say, hey,
girl, such is happening, youknow, get some advice and ask
for support, advice and help.
Brothers typically don't feelcomfortable doing that.
(11:54):
One is the vulnerability.
The other thing, it makes usfeel needy.
So to call on a brother,especially if it's not typically
we don't call each other everyweek, every you know.
So when you do call a brother,and as you get older too, what
takes on is the form of anotherfamily that you're formed.
So your friends that you hadyears ago are now focused,
(12:16):
probably more so, on buildingtheir families or being in
another role, as a father and aspouse, and so the idea that you
hanging out and calling yourboy it kind of goes down.
You know, you get together,maybe have some brewski and
watch the game and a barbecueonce in a while, but that's not
an every night thing.
There are women who haverelationships where they check
(12:38):
in on a weekly basis or they goshopping and they do things
together and that's kind of coolin that culture.
But when men do that, it looksa little off and if you're
calling your boy to say, hey,man, I'm feeling some kind of
way, you're like that's too raw,it looks needy and nobody wants
to hang out with a guy who isgoing to say I'm bleeding, you
(13:01):
know.
And there's another book that Iwant to talk about, and an
author, real briefly, and thisis Jason Wilson.
This is one of his books.
I have a second one too, battleCry, and he talks about the
comprehensive man, and thecomprehensive man I call it the
holistic man is a man who iswell-rounded, so you know, he
has what I spoke on recently ina podcast with somebody else.
(13:25):
He has a divine you and I spokeabout Stacy, the divine
masculine and the divinefeminine.
You know you have to sort ofintermarry both of those parts
of self to be comprehensive andwhole parts of self.
To be comprehensive and whole,you have to be wholesome, to be
(13:45):
healthy, right, and again, I'mjust popping all the books.
My good brother here just wrotethis book, brother Paul
Randolph Newell Heal Thy man,healthy man, and that's what
it's all about.
It's really all about findingyour true self.
But we don't want to feelexposed and naked as men, so we
(14:07):
typically don't make friendsthat get too close and can see
the authentic self, thehalf-filled self, not the whole
self self, not the whole self.
Stacy (14:24):
Well, I think that the challenge, and really the
premise of the article and partof the discussion right, is that
that often leads to isolation.
Whether it's behind the mask orshifting priorities, the
cultural norm, all of that leadsto isolation.
And so my first question forthe women is as a woman, what
signs have I missed that the menin my life were disconnected or
(14:50):
lonely?
And for women we have to makesure we're not always taking
this personally right you may belonely even if you're there.
Hi Curtis, it's good to see youin the house this evening.
So what signs might we bemissing?
(15:12):
Or even, as we reflect, whenmay we have seen a sign and not
necessarily acknowledged it orattributed it to his feeling
disconnected or lonely?
Wayne (15:31):
Yeah, that's a good question.
You know this is a verycontroversial book, but the dude
is well known.
We talked about it in the greenroom, David Dita, we talked
about it in the green room.
Stacy (15:41):
David, dita, and that was a controversy.
Wayne (15:44):
Yeah, I'm just saying controversy and he posits a
theory.
He says that men who spend toomuch time with their women and
women who with their men spendtoo much time I was there Very
few outside friendships andrelationships.
You know Audrey, always my bestfriend, but uh, and to be
(16:05):
honest, these days I've beenspending a lot more time alone
because I work from home and sheworks out.
But when she's home we hang out, we do things together.
I rather go to the gym with herthan alone and that stuff.
But there is an extreme men whospend too much time with their
women, he says.
According to this guy, thisauthor, they take on some of the
(16:27):
woman's femininity.
Let me explain.
And the women take on themasculinity, that is to say the
nurturing aspect, the so-calledfeminine divine of the male,
which is, let's say, the womanlikes to cuddle or just curl up
and watch a movie and read.
Or when you pass, you got togive her a kiss and you got to
(16:48):
tell her a hundred times I loveyou.
You mean a lot.
That's Audrey.
Then men start taking on thatbecause they have to appease and
you know, they say happy wife,happy life, so to speak.
So men start taking on thoseattributes and lose out.
He says for men to regain theirmasculinity, they got to be
(17:12):
more around men.
Now, that's not to say that themen are effeminate in any way.
I'm talking about the divinemasculine and the divine
feminine in us.
So what he says is when menalso, and women, spend time in
isolation, especially when menare not taking on friends, you
(17:35):
have to get more time inisolation and say no to a lot of
the things that would allow youto be distracted from finding
your inner wholesome self, yourmasculine energy, masculine self
, if that makes sense.
So I have a buddy.
Every year he goes on a silentretreat in the woods, and he
(18:01):
finds his purpose renewed whenhe does that.
So I guess to some extentthat's what this is saying, that
for us to be in tap with ourfullest masculinity, we either
have to surround ourself withmore of the male energy or we
got to be in solitude off themale energy or we got to be in
(18:26):
solitude.
Stacy (18:31):
Hmm, yes, so sorry that my face was so contorted during
that one.
That was one that Wayne and Iwe were bantering back and forth
a little bit, and I believe Idon't necessarily have to agree,
I did not read the book.
Let me be clear about that,because I think that there's an
interesting dynamic there whenyou talk about that.
The masculine energy can berenewed, either amongst other
(18:55):
men or in solitude, was.
It's interesting to me thatconcept and one that we'll have
to, we'll have to talk moreabout, we'll have to deep dive.
Let's talk about Wayne, how,maybe how loneliness shows up or
(19:17):
how some of this experience oflack of those types of
connections, those importantconnections, show up.
Wayne (19:26):
Yeah so, and one may say but that's what happened when
you're with the guys.
But a lot of time theloneliness shows up when a man
is out there and he's notconnecting.
Because connection,irrespective of how great chat,
gpt and AI is, the one thingthat it doesn't do for us is
(19:48):
give us a soul to soulconnection.
It does connect.
I was up one night, I remember,and I told Audrey and I tapped
in to do some research and itsaid hello, wayne, why are you
up so late?
I was like I'm out of here,that was too much for you.
(20:10):
But one of the things that ismissing and we need to have that
, to be honest is trueconnection at the heart level,
at the soul level.
And so sometimes, you knowagain, going back to that whole
competitive sharing with menwhen, typically when, when your
(20:34):
wife comes in and speaks to youabout an issue we talked about
this before the nurturing aspectof women allows them to process
the thing they want, to justtalk it through.
You know, men typically want toset a goal and accomplish it.
We have to find an end to it.
(20:55):
That's the whole conquer andconquest and compete.
We got to fix it.
And so sometimes, when men gettogether, they're able to just
get to the point and fix it all.
They don't want to talk itthrough and all that, and they
need each other for that.
And so when they don't havethat, the process of loneliness
(21:17):
sets in and they will sit down,sometimes we and stew which
invites, drinking which invites,you know, addictions in some
other ways.
Right, I didn't know this, butand this may not be around the
(21:38):
male to male connection.
This may be obviously aboutintimacy, but a large portion of
men are addicted to porn and Imean, like you know, I've had a
few clients who spoke to me atdifferent age levels about that,
and that's another thingaltogether.
(22:01):
That's happening there a needto express, a need to rule over,
need to conquer, because,listen, in an intimate sexual
relationship with yoursignificant other, you get
feedback, right.
So if you are doing somethingthat she's not in for, she's
going to tell you no.
Well, in pornography, men areconquering.
(22:25):
Oftentimes Men are doing whatthey want to do and there's no
feedback.
It's just what it is.
Sometimes, when you have thatsort of energy and I don't mean
sexual energy to your friend,but with all that energy of
being broken off and having trueconnections.
Those things are more likely tohappen than I think when you
(22:50):
surround yourself with genuinefriends and you can speak
through your issues, if thatmakes sense.
Stacy (22:58):
I think it's a great example that you use, because
we're talking about how theloneliness, how the
disconnection, how not havingmale friends, can show up.
And what you really justhighlighted was the possibility
(23:18):
of addiction or acting out inways really clinging to a
productivity or clinging to abad habit, identifying or
over-identifying with workthings that cause them to be
disengaged even from the othersin their life.
(23:41):
Right, it shows up in thatdisconnection with not just men
that you may not have afriendship with, but it could
show up with a disconnection oras a disconnection or
irritability with the women orthe people in your life.
(24:02):
Right that you're really actingout this experience of
loneliness in ways that areunhealthy.
And I can certainly reflect onan experience when in a
relationship, an intimaterelationship, where that
(24:27):
disconnection, know, and thatthere was no real friend that he
had I guess he was in that 17%that we referred to earlier,
right, so there's no one toreally talk about with, even the
(24:50):
issues he might be having inthe relationship, because he's
in that 17% with with the zerofriends.
So I just really think thatthis idea of understanding for
women in particular,understanding how loneliness can
show up in men, is a valuablelesson, even if you don't need
(25:16):
it right now.
Wayne (25:17):
Yeah, another book and this is the last one I promised
that I'd refer to tonight isthis book Be the man by Garrett
White, and he says that men arealways lying.
Oops, I shouldn't have donethat.
But he says men are alwayslying, and let me get into how
he explains that.
Because we wear a mask.
(25:40):
Curtis will appreciate this.
He speaks on that on hispodcast.
By the way, curtis and his wife.
They're celebrating theiranniversary tomorrow.
Congrats, curtis.
Stacy (25:50):
Happy anniversary Curtis and bride.
Wayne (25:54):
And he says Garrett White .
He says, because men are sobusy wearing the mask and not
being true to themselves and tothe rest of the world, they are
lying to themselves.
If you tell a lie long enough,you start believing it.
And so you know, typically,when us men, when we meet each
other and we say yo, what's up,dude, everything cool, yeah, how
(26:17):
you doing, I'm all right, I'mall right, is what we say to
each other, very seldomly do weget to the truth and say well,
you know, things are not lookingso good, can't meet the
mortgage this month.
I need you to spot me alone,I'm having some problem in the
house sexually.
(26:38):
What do you think?
Men don't share those kinds ofthings.
We are all right.
And because we walk aroundtelling ourselves that story, we
got to believe it.
That's what happens when youlie to yourself.
It just, it's a cycle.
And when we do this Stacy, it'sa lonely road.
(27:00):
Because you can't share the lie, you got to hold on to it.
And it gets us into a placewhere not only is there denial
but there is harm.
And because we're not comingout fully, we wind up oftentimes
with self-harm.
And I think it speaks to therise of suicide in men.
I don't have the numbers, butsuicide for men has shot up, and
(27:25):
for black men too, because wefeel like we got to carry it
alone and we don't.
If only we would trust enoughand open up enough to tell
someone.
Because guess what?
The men who oftentimes do theseacts of self-harm and suicide
typically don't look likethey're about to do it.
(27:45):
They show up and they're incharge.
They're running corporations,they're doing things with their
family and you think they'regoing to show up.
They take a ride somewherequietly and they blow them their
brains out.
You never knew.
But the lie eventually becomessuch a web that they, they weave
(28:05):
it.
They can't get out of it.
And um, um, just a shout out Ifanybody knows anyone who is
crying out for help or is too,too strong in a way that they
probably have a fissure and theyneed some help, Check in on
your boy, check in on them andmake sure that you're there for
(28:27):
them.
Stacy (28:28):
Well said.
There are definitely resourcesthat we should all be accessing,
if not for ourselves, for thosethat we care about and, as
Curtis said, no, men don't sharethose things with each other
and certainly that is somethingthat I believe we can all
(28:49):
encourage a sense of change.
Wayne, you and I also talkedabout in the green room some of
the nuances in generations andhow some of the men in younger
generations and they have swunga pendulum.
(29:27):
So, from that isolationism orthe sense of masculinity, the
masculine armor of not beingable to be their authentic,
vulnerable selves, I've seenable to be their authentic,
vulnerable selves.
I've seen, at least within someof my son's cohort, them swing
that pendulum to the point wherethey are.
They have a few of thosetrusted friends where they can
(29:48):
be their real, authentic self,where they can say that they're
hurting, where they can sharewhat they're afraid of, and I
think it's such a greatopportunity.
You and I had a conversation anumber of episodes ago about
multi-generationalism right andhow there's so much to learn
(30:13):
from different generations, andI'm hoping that even as we age,
we can still utilizeopportunities to look at other
generations and see how they mayhave been able to swing this
pendulum and really rebuild orestablish from a point of
(30:36):
reconnection, not from a pointof isolation.
Wayne (30:40):
That's powerful and thanks for sharing and bringing
that up again, Stacy.
There is truly a difference.
Notice of a difference acrossgenerations.
Uh, I think I belong to thelast of the baby boomers, just
at the end, the cusp, and thegeneration after me has a more
liberated sense.
Stacy (31:02):
Yes.
Wayne (31:05):
And then the millennials as well, and certainly the Zs,
are totally open, you know, evento the point where gender
identification is sometimes tous, the older generation, a
little bit confusing.
But what has happened isbecause of so much of the trauma
that the older we are, thecloser we were to it
(31:25):
generationally, the more lockedin and protective we are of that
space.
And so when it comes to peoplein our space, there is this
distrust.
Oftentimes the walls have beenleveled a lot more with time and
you know, listen, I growing upI didn't know how brothers in
(31:45):
Africa were living, but todayit's easy to have great
friendship with folks,friendships with folks across
the pond and across the water,because those barriers are down
and you can build more enduringrelationship.
You can with more transparency,more understanding, more trust
and so forth, and it's easierfor men to then the younger
(32:10):
generation to share in a moreauthentic way their feelings and
connections across the boardwith each other and oftentimes
don't feel as threatened as ifit's taken away their manhood.
So that happens, I think.
Stacy (32:29):
So, wayne, talk about your TCS model, this, this idea
of reconnection.
Right, we talked a lot aboutthe downsides of being isolated,
of men lacking friendships, yetwe certainly would never want
to depart an episode on adownside note or as if there is
(32:53):
no hope.
We are all on a growthtrajectory, so let's talk about
that a little bit, wayne whatreconnection can look like.
Wayne (33:02):
Stacy, you're just the perfect co-pilot.
I keep drifting off.
We're supposed to be going toBarbados but, if you allow me,
we land up somewhere in HongKong.
So you keep redirecting theroad.
Teamwork teamwork, babe,teamwork, okay, I love it.
So, tcs model, here's arecommendation, and it's not
mine wholly, but the idea isthat if you're building
(33:28):
friendships and you can you'renot too late, too old to have it
and it's important.
Nobody wants to spend theirlast years alone.
Trust me, t is talk or callonce a week.
I think that's the yeah, weekly.
I'm sorry, I thought your T wastexting.
Stacy (33:49):
It is text, it is text.
I'm always trying to keep upwith Wayne it is text.
Wayne (33:53):
I'm always trying to keep up with Wayne, always trying to
keep up, keep redirecting thenavigating.
It is texting, t for textingText, at least once a week, and
then C is call, call is at leastonce a month and S is see, or
connect visually, once everyquarter.
(34:13):
It's a model that helps tosustain and even refresh a
relationship, helps to build afriendship.
You got to feed it.
I have friends, like I said, for30 years, and we talk maybe on
Father's Day which reminds me Igot to call them this Sunday and
we talk maybe Christmas or NewYear's.
(34:37):
We forget birthdays, but when weget it, we get it.
Man, nobody really gets madabout that, you know, and it's
cool, you know, because we knowwe bona fide friends.
But I could do a better job andI trust, trust me, when I
haven't heard from my boys in along, long time, I don't call
them necessarily to say yo, man,what's up, I missed you.
But I do, you know, and it'simportant, I think if you have a
(35:04):
system like we just talkedabout, you know, send a text
just to say what's up, you sawthe game once a week, you know,
make that call.
Hey, how's the family?
Congratulations.
See your kid graduated once amonth and uh right, or the end
of a quarter, you know.
Connect with your boy.
Now that may mean Zoom for alot of people, but listen, you
(35:28):
can probably take the drive orfly if that's necessary and do
something together too.
Stacy (35:34):
Well, I think, in this age of technology, right, we at
least do have Zoom to your pointwhere we can do that quarterly,
face-to-face, even if it's notin person.
What I'd like about thepresentation of the model is
that friendships requireintention, and, you know,
(35:56):
texting, calling and seeing onsome type of consistent basis
requires intention, and it'sjust one way we want to really
support and encourage thenormalization of friendships in
men, of true, heartfelt,vulnerable friendships in men.
(36:22):
As a woman, all I can do isencourage it.
Thus why we're having thisconversation.
Right, we really want to.
We are not meant to do thisalone.
I don't have a scripture, butI'm sure that there's one
brewing in the back of my mind,but we really are not meant to
(36:43):
do this alone.
And this idea of so many men,such value that they add to
families, to communities, tojobs, to the business sector, of
this population, of peoplesuffering because of lack of
(37:06):
friendship, suffering inisolation, does not have to be.
And so you know, we can look ator frame friendship as fitness,
and it requires some reps,right that you were talking
about the texting, the calling,the seeing.
And it requires intention, andour hope here is that you've
(37:31):
gleaned a little something andeven as women, we can support
when we see the approach or theattempt even at rekindling
friendships or reconnecting withmen, the men in your life,
reconnecting with men in a waythat is healthy and
(37:55):
strengthening and empowering.
Wayne (37:58):
Yeah, and Stacy, if you're a guy, get an
organization that you can belongto participate in.
Do an activity.
It doesn't have to be vigoroussports or whatever, but just
something where you have othermen around you to keep your
testosterone up.
But, seriously speaking, it'sjust important, I think, that
(38:22):
men recognize that you don'thave to do this alone.
I think that men recognize thatyou don't have to do this alone
, and sometimes it's a littlebit uncomfortable if it's only
your significant other that youcan share with, because
sometimes guys just don't wantto be taken for granted, and
that happens when you have along lasting relationship or an
intimate relationship.
Sometimes you just want to getinput from someone that has
(38:45):
proper.
Sometimes you just want to getinput from someone that has
proper discernment, not awayward man who's going to take
you off the path Right, but justto have that encouragement and
somebody else, especiallybrothers who are in pain and are
alone.
Brothers, listen, seriously,I'm going to look straight in
the camera.
You don't have to be alone.
I'm going to look straight inthe camera.
(39:09):
You don't have to be alone.
If you're in any kind of painor anguish, you are worthy.
You deserve to be here for yourfriends, family or, more
importantly, for yourself.
So reach out and get help ifyou need that.
Stacy (39:18):
Absolutely, absolutely.
My words of encouragement tothe women of the midlife
Revolution Unleashed audienceare twofold One, we want to be a
model, but not apply pressure.
It doesn't have to be our way.
We want to invite dialogue butrespect the space.
(39:40):
And, as importantly, we want tobe a soft landing place for men
, not just our intimate partners.
I have a brother, and itreminds me that even in my
conversation with him as anolder sister, I still have the
(40:03):
opportunity to be a soft landingspace, somewhere where he can
just be, and it doesn't meanthat I'm expecting him to fix
anything or make anything better, but he's just allowed to be
present.
And so I encourage women tomake sure that they are
(40:27):
bolstering themselves up in wayswhether it be with their
friendships, their closefriendships, but in ways that
support them being a softlanding space for the men in
their lives.
Wayne (40:38):
That's it.
And Stacy, as always, I'mavailable.
If there is a brother out therewho needs some kind of support,
who needs support in terms of,uh, hold on to afford you know,
I'm happy to refer them out.
And if they need some coachingup just to figure out to get to
(40:59):
the next level, I'm there forthat Stacy.
How can the sisters reach outto you?
Stacy (41:05):
Stacy, how can the sisters reach out to you?
Oh, I'm always available.
Wayne (41:24):
If you are here on Facebook or LinkedIn, you know
how to reach me through DM, butI can always reach through my
website at thestacymlewiscom.
What's going on with you, sirWayne?
Hey, Stace, I would say goahead and hit the site
VIPTransformativeLivingcom.
You'll see all of my handlesthere, my link tree and all my
handles.
Just DM me or send me an emailand I'll be getting right back
at you so that we can be betterwhen I see you at the top.
Stacy (41:43):
Yes, yes, yes, I'm just going to give a moment of
accountability when I see you atthe top.
Yes, yes, yes, I'm just goingto give a moment of
accountability.
So, as Wayne builds hiscommunity of men of support, of
encouragement, of empowerment,he'll keep you posted.
Wayne (41:59):
Thank you, Stacy.
Let's say bye to the folks fornow.
Stacy (42:02):
God bless.
Wayne (42:04):
See you next week.
Have a good night.
Thank you for joining us.
And there you have it, folks,this week's episode of the
Midlife Revolution Unleashed.
Hey, we truly appreciate yourspending this time In this space
with us.
Join us next week At the sametime as we dive into relevant
(42:26):
topics and present solutions tospark new thinking and empower
your midlife journey.
Stacy (42:34):
And don't forget if you enjoyed today's episode, let us
know in the comments and shareit with others.
And, of course, remember tosubscribe, share like.
Hit that notification bell.
You are the midlife revolutionunleashed.
I'm Coach Stacy and I'mcheering you on.
Wayne (42:54):
And I'm Coach Wayne and I'll see you at the top.
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