September 15, 2024 • 50 mins
Rising to fame on reality TV in the noughties, Jeff experienced a heartbreaking loss in front of a nation.
Now the famous father, presenter, and life coach joins the Mile Fly Club to reveal what it’s like to live your life on camera.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Joining the club this week is my favorite Essex life page.
(00:04):
Jeff Brazier.
Jeff Brazier.
Jeff Brazier.
He's a father, broadcaster, author, former Shipwreck contestant and has just been racing
across the world with his son, Freddie.
I wanted him to have the development that you would get from a life-changing experience
like that.
I hope that it gave him some more confidence and self-belief.
(00:24):
The OG of reality TV.
That whole island that I was shipwrecked on looks like the ultimate holiday destination.
It's now a five or six star resort.
So we do need to know, are you a member of the Mile High Club?
Really?
Is that where you take it?
Of course.
This actually has very, very, very little to do with me and everything to do with my
(00:51):
dad.
He's completely different to me.
He's really brave and he's really confident.
How did you cope with the loss of the mother of your children?
I wasn't with Jade so I didn't feel like I really had the right to make it about me in
the slightest, even though I knew I was the one who was holding the weight of the responsibility
(01:14):
of bringing the kids up.
Watching Jade die was ultimately what the media did.
It was really intrusive.
Welcome to the Mile Fly Club, your VIP lane to first class travel tips, tell old talk
and turbulent life tales.
Think the Mile High Club only with more clothes, but no less revealing.
(01:35):
Each week I'll be inviting high flying globetrotting guests to bear all in my club.
So if you're searching for some tantalizing travel tidbits and a good old gossip, you've
arrived at the right destination.
Now sit back, relax and get ready to join me in the Mile Fly Club.
(01:55):
Ladies and gentlemen, we've now reached our cruising altitude.
I'll go ahead and turn off the seatbelt sign.
So sit back, relax and enjoy the flight.
Jeff Frasier.
Oh, it's so lovely to see you.
We're long overdue a catch up.
Oh, we are.
This is just convenient that we would maybe do it in the form of a podcast.
So I have lots of questions about travel, about property.
(02:16):
Can we cover everything?
Of course we can.
But first of all, welcome home.
Because didn't you just not long return from a trip, Brazil to Chile?
Yeah, Freddie and I did race across the world, but it was actually we got back in April.
So, you know, these things obviously take a while to edit and get out there.
But it was great because it was actually scheduled to be later on in the year.
(02:38):
But the BBC wanted to put it around the Olympics because of the race element.
I can't see us winning a gold medal for our performance, but it was quite an experience.
And how long is the journey?
Five weeks.
Right.
Amazon to the Andes.
So that's cool.
I didn't think we'd be going to South America.
You don't find out where you're going literally until you get to the airport.
(02:59):
They keep it a really close guarded secret.
They don't want you looking at the language and learning any that's going to help you.
They don't want you sort of getting any guidebooks that you can sort of sneak in your bag and
have an advantage.
They want you literally to not have a clue.
And we didn't.
Amazing.
So then they're like, right, you're going to a place called Belém.
(03:19):
Where's Belém?
And it's the gateway to the Amazon.
It smelled a lot like fish.
What an incredible experience.
And with one of your boys.
Yeah, I mean, to do it with Freddie was really amazing.
He is the most kind hearted person I know.
And I wanted him to have that, the development that you would get from a life changing experience
(03:43):
like that.
I hope that it gave him some more confidence and self belief because as a dad, I kind of
look at him and feel like that's what he would benefit from.
A little bit more of a sort of grounded knowledge of like, actually, this is what's good about
me.
I think a lot of young kids, I'm fair to call him a kid, a lot of young adults would actually
(04:03):
look at themselves and because of Instagram and holding the mirror that is Instagram up
to themselves and maybe feeling like they don't compare or they don't quite measure
up to everybody else or where they should be.
I just hoped that he would see it himself because I see it.
I've seen it the whole time, really.
But and everybody else sees it funnily enough.
You know, he'd gotten so well with everyone.
(04:25):
Everyone loved him.
And it would just be really interesting to see obviously how he comes across it.
There was just so many beautiful, magical moments where I'm like, oh, I'm so proud
of you.
Well, you I mean, you must be incredibly proud of both of them.
I mean, I've I've obviously known you since our Dancing on Ice days.
2011.
Yeah, 11.
Yeah.
You know, and you've had a pretty good at that.
(04:48):
You're annoyingly good.
Come on, you're pretty good as well.
I mean, you have had an incredible career.
I mean, it's kind of like, where do we start?
Because it all began for you back in 2001, right?
In shipwrecks.
Yeah, yeah.
So I guess I like what you've done next.
This is a travel element.
And actually, it brings me full circle.
Something I was going to really mention was the book that I'm reading at the moment, which
(05:10):
is Die with Zero from Bill Jenkins.
So whenever we say the word die, it's always like, oh, is this morbid?
Far from it.
It's just about really gaining a perspective around why we earn what we earn and save what
we save and invest in what we invest in.
And we have any real strategy around actually when this money should be spent, because the
(05:31):
majority of people actually leave it too late and they die with a lot and a lot for a lot
of people.
It's like, great, my kids can have it.
But yeah, but you haven't given it to your kids at the right time because now they're
going to pay inheritance tax because you haven't got your affairs in order.
So it's a really educational book, but it's also very thought provoking as well.
(05:51):
So the reason why that ties in is because my shipwrecks experience was in a place called
Yakouby Leyvoo.
It was six hours boat ride south of Fiji, which is the, sorry, Suva.
It's six hours boat ride south of there.
And it's now a five or six star resort.
It is now that whole island that I was shipwrecked on looks like the ultimate holiday destination,
(06:19):
but it's expensive, really expensive.
And I've always looked at it and thought, I have to do that for my 50th.
So I'm five years away from that.
So anyway, this book is all about now I'm looking at experience.
I'm looking at, right, I've done lots of things.
I've traveled to lots of places and I feel really good about that, but I need to keep
making a, you know, build on that bank of memories with all my favorite people, loved
(06:41):
one, family, friends.
What else can I do?
And if I was to draw up a bucket list, which I've never really done because I feel, and
I wonder whether you feel the same.
I feel quite spoiled in that I've traveled a lot and seen a lot of things.
So I don't necessarily have that burning desire to retire and then travel because I've kind
of done a fair bit of that already.
(07:04):
But if I, yeah, if I was drawing up my bucket list, which I've started doing the trip to
my shipwrecked island is at the top of it.
I mean, look, you were how old when you did shipwrecked?
I think I turned 21 when I was at it.
And you, you know, you're saying you're 50, which is mad in five years time.
It really is incredible to have had the career that you have had.
(07:26):
You had two sons, both of which I obviously met in Dancing on Ice.
They were weenie then, Bobby and Freddie.
And you know, you've done an incredible job bringing them up for a lot of the years on
your own.
How, how, how did you manage, manage that to bring up two incredible boys?
(07:48):
Right.
So honestly, I think parents take too much credit with how children turn out.
I think that there is an influence that we can have more so in just who we are, what
we do, how we do it, that they absorb because they just maybe share those traits with you
or they actually look at certain elements and think I respect that about dad.
(08:10):
So it would make sense for me to embody that behavior as well.
Then I honestly believe that the kids make up the majority of it themselves.
There's a lot of free will involved.
There's a lot of needing to go through the stages.
Like both of them have had difficulties.
Both of them have also sort of shone in, in, in, in respects as well.
(08:31):
And I think that's the typical journey for any childhood teenager.
You know, it's slightly different for them now.
We didn't grow up with the difficulties around social media.
And I've seen my two struggle with that first and I'm sure that's a common experience for
most parents.
But for me, I just look at it and say like they're in one piece, which is amazing.
It has been a bit of a struggle.
(08:52):
There have been a lot more challenges, but you can also look at those as lessons.
So of course, it hasn't been plain sailing.
Obviously, you know, they, they lost their mom.
That's a massive thing to have, have like dealt with.
And you know, how you met, you met your now partner, you travelling.
(09:13):
How I want to do want to talk a bit about, about Kate, but how was that kind of introducing
Bobby and Freddie to, to Kate for the first time?
I don't think Kate wasn't my first partner since, since I split up with their mom quite
a few years prior to that, to be honest.
So I kind of knew what my rules were that I was comfortable with and that is that if
(09:38):
I'd been with someone for six months and I felt like it was going somewhere that for
me personally was like that, that was how you qualify, whether it's the right time or
not.
So yeah, Kate was 10 years younger than me actually.
So I was 34, which is no age anyway, but she was 24 and I didn't, I didn't really know
that it was going to sort of go where it went.
(09:59):
So I just knew that I'd spent a week with her in Mauritius.
Another lovely destination.
Yeah.
And what were you doing there?
I was working for her this morning, filming a competition and she was the PR that was
looking after the hotel.
She's still in PR now.
I thought she was incredibly good at her job, really professional, but also really beautiful
(10:21):
and really hot.
Yeah.
Sort of quite unassuming as well.
She didn't know that she was hot.
She didn't care that she was hot.
She just cared that she did a good job and looked after us and was efficient.
She's all about, I've never met anyone quite as intelligent as Kate as well.
So no surprise that in the last 10 years of her career, she's gone to where she's gone
(10:43):
to just purely because I saw it all.
I saw it all there and then, and obviously we might have snogged at some point during
that week.
I'm always surprised that she's really funny because whenever you go away and you might
find it's the same for yourself.
But I'm pretty sure they don't use people that they think would be a problem for the
(11:08):
talent.
I'm sure it's a consideration.
I'm sure it's like, oh, there'll be too much distraction.
Let's not use that person.
Who knows how it works, but it was like, I'm just sort of now recounting what I'm saying
and it's like everyone that was ever on a shoot with me was unattractive.
(11:29):
Far from it, but Kate was just my type, dark hair.
It was like, yeah, you are definitely my type.
So yeah, 10 years later we're married.
How did that happen?
And we've had our ups and downs as well and we can be really proud of ourselves for how
much we've dug in and persevered.
And we did all the right things.
(11:51):
We gave each other space when we needed it.
We went to couples therapy when we needed it and that is a revelation by the way that
will potentially save a marriage and keep it on track because that's definitely been
the case for us.
Just learning conflict resolution actually and to be aware and mindful of other people's
triggers and how not to sort of detonate that landmine as we sort of used to refer to them
(12:18):
as because we've all got them.
We've experienced some difficult stuff growing up and there's likely to be things that we
find particularly difficult.
For me, fairness, someone not taking responsibility for something they've done that has maybe
sort of caused some issues.
When people are like, I know I didn't say that, I didn't do that.
(12:38):
That I find difficult because I'm like, I can overcome these things, but only if you
can be, I guess, brave and adult enough to just sort of confront it head on.
So yeah, we've come through a lot, like a lot of it, around Kate being a stepmom and
being a very young stepmom.
Was there ever a talk of or is there ever any talk of any more children or is that very
(13:00):
much a done deal?
For me, I guess I would have been open at a point.
I do much of my children being young.
I love being around my friends' kids who are that age because I think it sort of, it reminds
you of a version of yourself that you maybe put away because your kids don't need you
to be that anymore because they've got older.
(13:22):
That said, I do think, and it's something that I actually learned on Race Across the
World is that for all the difficulties and the challenges, you have to remember to be
playful, regardless of how old your kids are.
And that's something that I sort of lost a little bit.
So I've been around your friends' kids who are of a younger age sort of to help you to
(13:42):
stay playful.
Coming back to Race Across the World, what was the most challenging bit of filming that
show?
Well, imagine being in a sauna and being in a sauna for five weeks.
That was challenging as it was and not being able to shower very often.
I've met at service stations for football or work or whatever on many occasions.
(14:02):
I've always looked at the truckers that go in to have a shower and thought, ugh, there's
no way I would ever use them.
Fast forward a few years and there I was in Brazil, literally just loving any shower I
could get in any bus garage.
It didn't matter how close I had to get changed to the urinals.
To be clean was something I really valued.
(14:25):
It's something we absolutely take for granted.
The language barrier was huge as well.
Imagine not knowing that you were going to Brazil, therefore you don't have any Portuguese
typically.
So you try and learn it as quickly as you can, but you're not allowed to actually ask
someone to get their phone out to translate.
That's against the rules.
They're allowed to offer it, but you can't prompt it.
(14:48):
So actually your hands are tied and you're a bus garage.
They don't have any English because they more often than not, unless you're in Sao Paulo
or Rio, they just don't need it.
They didn't get taught it in schools and why would they or why should they?
So when you're trying to play charades for the 80th time and you know you're about to
miss your bus and it's a seven hour wait until the next one, it was full of challenges actually,
(15:14):
but great lessons for both of us.
Yeah, and you had moments where there was a bit of friction between you and Fred.
And Fred, yeah, absolutely.
I didn't foresee that naively because in real life, Fred is the most easy going, easy to
get on with, kind of sold it, I know.
But there was this thing about he realized in the moments that we were maybe reading
(15:39):
the guide to find out what we were going to do on the next leg.
That whilst I'd already sort of been to him the night before with the map, just saying,
it's likely that we're going to sort of head in this direction.
These are some of the things that I know are sort of around these areas like UNESCO World
Heritage sites, whether it's the Guacu Falls or the Sierra Verde Railway and Curitiba.
(16:06):
You know, these would all of a sudden would be sat there.
And I'd think, oh, Fred didn't care.
He wasn't interested last night.
He literally sent me away when I was trying to have like a team meeting with him.
And then all of a sudden he just come in with this really strong opinion.
I think he realized in the moment that it would be embarrassing for him not to have
an opinion and that he kind of saw it as needing to if dad said right, he'd want to go left.
(16:32):
So all of a sudden he was literally and everything that I suggested and just without really wanting
to go to wherever it was, he was saying he just insisted.
So that was difficult and we didn't get any better at it as it progressed.
In fact, I learned to just be like, go on, Fred.
(16:54):
Can I ask, you know, your children obviously going what they went through, would you say
that they almost had to grow up a bit quicker and in the same way that, you know, they lost
their mom, you lost your dad.
Would you say that you had to grow up a bit more quickly?
Slightly different.
I definitely had to grow up quick and I'm going to go on to say that my children haven't
(17:14):
necessarily matured quicker and I've never really considered why.
So it'd be interesting to look into.
But I had to grow up because I was on my own.
I was literally taken away from my mom at a very young age.
She was only 15 when she had me.
So I spent years in foster care with a particular family.
And I remember when I went back with my mom and I was around five years old and she was
(17:37):
allowed to have me because she was with my stepdad.
So these were the conditions by all account of the social workers, social services.
So I guess when you're in foster care and you know you're not with your mom and dad,
you suddenly would probably become very good at surviving, I guess.
(18:00):
Not that, you know, the environment needed me to survive and feed myself and stuff like
that.
But in terms of emotionally, there's something so important about being around your mom for
any youngster in those developmental years.
So all the things that I guess you don't get, you have to provide to yourself.
(18:21):
And it's quite sad to think of a little Jeff or any child that doesn't get that.
But that said, it ends up being a little bit of a superpower.
That's where your resilience comes from.
That's where your ability to navigate the difficulties that life can throw at you.
And I've had a few.
I've been tested and I'm sort of proud of how I've been able to navigate.
(18:42):
In fact, I'm brilliant in a crisis.
I don't want any crisis, but you chuck me in one, I'm always going to be out to keep
my head.
I'm incredibly aware.
So this is another trait that I think people that have grown up in certain environments
will always sort of realize that they've got.
But they spot things coming.
They just get a sense of people and their intentions maybe.
(19:05):
And these are things that can end up actually being really quite useful.
But going back to your question, it's really interesting.
I don't think my children did grow up particularly quickly.
And whilst they would have had to have been slightly more self-sufficient because they're
typically in a family, there is two people doing everything and you are completely in
(19:28):
their care.
And then I guess it was just one person who was doing everything.
A lot of people like, yeah, well, you become mom and dad.
And I always sort of fight against that a little bit because I think that there is only
one mom and there is only one dad.
There are people that can come into the child's life and play a really beautiful, wonderful
(19:49):
role.
But ultimately, they will never ever be on a par with that individual unless they're
not present in your life for any reason.
That's just my feeling.
So I always feel it's potentially a little bit disrespectful to their mom to sort of
say that I assumed her role.
I didn't.
I just wanted to adapt the father that I needed to be.
(20:12):
Well, you have done an incredible job.
And I think that Bobby and Freddie, look at what they're doing.
I mean, Bobby's been in Strictly, he's Stenders, he's a catwalk model.
I mean, where's it going with him?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Wherever he wants to take it is the sort of headstrong, stubborn individual that will
(20:33):
pretty much dictate.
Whereas, he was talking to me about sort of how long he stays at EastEnders and when he
maybe goes off and sort of tries his luck in America and stuff like that.
I don't really give opinions just because he's completely different to me.
He's really brave and he's really confident and he has no ceiling to what he thinks that
(21:00):
he can develop to be.
He thinks whatever he puts his mind to, he can do.
I think you're a bit brave and a bit confident.
In some ways, but actually not as much as people would maybe imagine.
That's why I've had a fairly safe career, in all honesty.
I've not pushed the envelope, let's say.
(21:20):
I haven't been brave enough to go off and do some of the things that you've done with
property where you have to take financial risk.
But I am working on it.
That's a big part of my development currently is just taking more risks and I guess believing
in myself and the fact that if that person can, then you can as well.
(21:44):
Let's talk about travel with the boys.
Where have you been to as some of your favourite destinations together?
Oh, yeah, we've had some really beautiful holidays.
Yeah, we went to Mauritius, Sugar Beach.
That was an exceptional holiday.
It was beautiful.
In fact, what always springs to mind is when me and the boys had a race along the beach
(22:08):
and we filmed it, someone was stood at the finish line.
As much as I'm 45, I always sort of rate myself as like the boys don't really work out that
much.
So I was feeling unfitter and stronger than you.
Shame on you that you haven't caught me up yet.
Come on, what are you doing?
So yeah, that's a race.
I got left for dust.
Those two were sort of neck and neck and I was like still halfway down the beach.
(22:34):
So that's a lovely memory.
Otherwise, yeah, we've been to a lot of different places.
Portugal does feature a lot because Kate's parents had a place in Preta Luz.
And you got married there.
Talk about your wedding in Portugal.
Got married in Calvoiro and it was, I love the Algarve actually and since I've become
very, it's wrong to say proficient in golf because I'm still trying to get off 18 but
(22:58):
do you play, don't you?
I do play a little bit golf.
You actually with a friend of mine as well, I think, Harry.
Harry Sellers playing golf, weren't you?
Harry's amazing.
Yeah, we did.
We went away to Scotland and had a really beautiful trip.
So yeah, the wedding was everything I could have ever hoped for.
I'll be honest, I didn't ever think that I'd get married because I didn't have a particularly
(23:18):
great example of marriage when I was growing up.
So I'd always...
Were you married to J?
No, I wasn't.
You weren't.
No, no, we didn't.
We just had kids.
We did it in reverse.
So yeah, we went out to Portugal.
So you never thought you would get married?
I didn't.
I didn't because to me, I think I'd quite early in my life equated marriage to pain.
(23:42):
I just put all kinds of negative attachments to it.
So I just thought, why would I put myself in that position?
I also, for having some commitment issues through being quite avoidant, I guess, for
not having that connection with my mum early on in my life, something I've had to unravel
and done plenty of work on.
(24:03):
But because of that, I just struggled to get past three years with...
I'd say I was with a partner at the time that we did Dancing on Ice and that got to the
three-year mark.
And as incredible as she was, I just couldn't do it.
I wasn't ready to be able to commit to someone and all the pain or fear and jeopardy that
(24:23):
that sort of conjured up even the thought of it.
I didn't realise that at the time.
I just convinced myself that, oh, the relationship's not good or I need to come out of this because
it's not quite right.
And I never really understood why.
There's nothing to do with a relationship.
It was purely about the fact that I was going to have to confront something that would be
(24:44):
really uncomfortable for me and I wasn't ready to look at myself inwardly to be able to get
to grips with that.
You talk about your experience to Mauritius with the boys, but do you still go on holiday
with them now?
I mean, you've got two young men.
Yeah, getting everyone together, they're both working, so getting everyone together at the
(25:06):
same time might be slightly harder.
But we've got a camper, so that opportunity for us to even go away for one evening.
Is that not quite intense though in a camper van?
Yeah, we'd all do the camper together, I think.
Kate would worry about noises in the middle of the night and stuff like that.
What kind of noises?
The noises that come out your backside.
(25:27):
Oh no.
Yeah, she's not good with stuff like that.
But otherwise, look, these are, again, referring back to that book that I talked about, Die
with Zero, it's about we're in the business of making memories because otherwise we'll
see all four.
So yes, I would go away with these kids.
But to cater for all of us and to keep us all in the same place at the same time, I
(25:53):
think it needs to be somewhere that Fred and I can go off and play golf and then somewhere
that's got a paddle court so Bobby and I can go and play paddle because that's what we
do together.
And then also somewhere that organizes little football matches because that's what we all
do as the three of us.
And what about Kate?
Where does she fit in with the football matches?
Yeah, Kate and I, we like to do, I say we like to do dance classes.
(26:16):
I'm only referring to that because there was a dance class at Sugar Beach in Mauritius
and we all really loved that.
Actually, Freddie went missing.
He didn't want to do it.
But I think that that's something that we absolutely would do together on holiday.
Dancing together.
Yeah.
With Freddie, without Freddie.
(26:37):
Fred will probably miss that out.
Well, Bobby's obviously the dancer, very good dancer, taking part in Strictly.
There's been a bit of controversy with that show at the moment.
Has, did Bobby mention anything to you?
Yeah, I can safely say that Diane never shouted at Bobby once, even though he probably deserved
(26:57):
it a few times.
I can't speak for the show on mass or any of the other couples or anything, but I just
know that Bobby and Diane got on great and I think Diane is probably one of the most
exceptional human beings that we've ever come across.
I'm very grateful that he was with her.
Well, if you liked to dance, didn't you kind of watch and think, I wish that was me?
(27:18):
I keep getting asked that and I just think that's Bobby's space.
Bobby was there and he was pretty good as well.
You'd be silly to follow.
I don't know, you said you're competitive with running along the beach.
I reckon you'd like to give it a go and see if you, you know, how you fared.
Absolutely no chance would I be anywhere near as good as him.
(27:39):
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah, he took it to a level that I didn't see coming.
And I know that you surprise yourself, like any contestant that goes on there, like reaches
a level that they didn't think that.
We know this from Dancing on Ice.
He got really good at skating.
I just couldn't do the performing bits.
No, you were good.
You were great.
(28:00):
No, no.
I just can't believe how long ago it was.
I think it's because of Dancing on Ice, maybe also that I wouldn't necessarily put myself
up for Strictly because I remember that I was really good at one element, but not so
the other.
And it's the other element that's really important in Strictly.
It would be easier because you're not on ice basically, you're not sort of in danger of
(28:25):
being dropped.
You were with Colin, weren't you?
I was.
Come back to me.
Who were you with?
Isabelle Gaultier.
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(28:46):
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(29:06):
You say that when you were 15 that you were taken away from your mum.
What happened?
No, I was 15, no.
From pretty young, maybe one or two.
Wow.
From that formative years, basically.
That would have been, I don't remember much of it, but I can only imagine that there was
(29:27):
a little Jeff pretty scared and unsure of his circumstances because he wasn't where
I guess all children know they're meant to be.
But it wasn't a negative experience in that I don't remember any incidents in particular
that where you're like, oh, that wasn't right.
It just was that I wasn't with my mum.
(29:48):
I guess you have to be resilient when you're growing up in a fairly hostile environment
because my mum and stepdad were young.
They were trying their best to have a relationship and for everything to work.
But the truth is that it just was really difficult for both of them and it resulted in a lot
of arguing.
So I guess there's a resilience gained from again feeling unsafe in your environment.
(30:14):
There was a lot of that really.
We had to run away.
We ended up being rehoused in a little village.
Who had to run away?
Me, my mum, my brother.
So we ended up in Tiptree where the jam comes from and life really started to sort of move
from there actually.
That's when I discovered I had some confidence and I think our environment actually affects
(30:40):
us far more than we actually realized.
And to be out of that environment and into something that felt a little bit freer, a
little bit safer, a little bit easier was a massive turning point for me.
It was then another sort of one on the list of things was realizing firstly that my stepdad
wasn't my real dad because I didn't know until my mum sat me down one day and asked
(31:03):
me if I wanted to meet my real nan and granddad.
So the language was really interesting.
It's amazing how we store memories because instantly I had a flashback to my stepdad's
story.
He had to sort of punch his way into a flat that we had been evicted from I think.
And he was sat on the edge of the bath and I remember walking in and saying, Rob, your
(31:28):
hand's bleeding.
You wouldn't have called him Rob if he was your dad.
So I was like, oh yeah.
So that made sense.
I said yes to meeting the family.
My next question was obviously why not my real dad?
And then she told me about the Marchioness Bobel disaster, the fact that he was the skipper
and I heard a lot about that story.
And I've been hearing a lot about it ever since from my nan, obviously, who lost her
(31:50):
son.
So that's an interesting one.
I've obviously had to understand and look at grief from quite a close perspective.
But my own experience is that it's interesting how can you grieve someone that you didn't
actually meet.
But I guess the only way I'd sort of describe the effect that that would have on someone
(32:12):
is that there is a gap next to you, a void where someone should be.
And you're very aware of that gap.
Because in that, you know, every time that life has ever been particularly challenging,
like when the boys lost their mom, just how much of a resource would my biological dad
have been?
You know, how helpful would my friendship relationship with him have been?
(32:34):
How different, how much difference would he have made to my football career?
To anything, how would I be different with my dad in the picture?
So I guess you can't regret losing what you didn't have.
But you can absolutely just sort of, I guess, hold a little bit of space for the things
(32:56):
that you would have experienced that you didn't get to, the support that you might have had
that you were denied.
You know?
I mean, I've got to say, Geoff, it is incredible sitting here and listening to you because
I've known you for many years, but I don't feel like I've known all of this stuff about
you.
And I think that, you know, it's so easy, isn't it, for people, as you say, like when
(33:17):
they look at social media and they read things in the press, they're like, oh, lucky you
get to go to all these amazing places.
What a charm life.
But no one really knows, like, just what you have, what you've been through, like as a
child, as a parent.
I mean, it's something else.
It really is.
And that's what I'm saying.
For you to have had the career you've had and to be where you are right now.
I mean, it is amazing.
(33:38):
We've all got a story, but just this is the way that we bounce back from these things
or how we potentially even learn to use the tools that we gain from it to actually further
our lives, our careers, our friendships and relationships.
And I'm really grateful that I am the sort of person that just wants to grow and develop.
(34:02):
So where I came from and what I experienced doesn't define me, nor does it hold me back.
Any limitations that has been sort of left on me, I work hard to sort of loosen up and
diminish, if you like.
I mean, you're a life coach now, right, as well?
(34:25):
That's another probably byproduct of it.
I've always been really interested.
I've told you all about my childhood, but I've always been really interested in human
behaviour.
I guess I was looking at my stepdad and my mum quite early in my life thinking, why are
they angry?
Why are they shouting?
Is it because of the childhoods that they have?
(34:45):
And that's a really mature question to be asking yourself at a really young age.
So I've always sort of seen beyond someone's immediate sort of response or behaviour and
always sort of asked the question, well, why have they acted that way or why have they
said that thing?
So I guess it kind of helps you to understand people a little bit more, yourself a little
(35:08):
bit more.
I also hope that it would help me to be a better parent in that, you know, to be typically
coach-like is to actually ask a question where most would give an observation or an opinion
or some advice.
So just to learn that actually and to learn how vital it is to give people the opportunity
to be heard.
(35:30):
You know, that was worth doing that qualification all those years ago just in itself.
Without the support of your biological father, how did you cope with the loss of the mother
of your children?
Yeah, I didn't start coping with it, I don't think until maybe seven or eight years later
when I started having therapy because at the time I remember doing what is quite typical
(35:52):
really and that is that I made it all about the kids.
I wasn't with Jade so I didn't feel like I really had the right to make it about me in
the slightest even though I knew I was the one who was holding the weight of the responsibility
of bringing the kids up and what that meant and knowing that, you know, obviously there
was a public interest in it as well.
(36:12):
But my mum was incredible as was my auntie Leslie.
I always have to mention that because my mum went so far as moving home to actually support
us in those early years when it was, you know, when I really needed help like to be able
to carry on working.
I was working this morning, sort of two or three days a week at the time with other stuff
(36:35):
and I was really grateful at the time.
I remember just thinking this is amazing that my mum can do the school drop and I'll always
be home to pick them up and I know a lot of kids wouldn't see their parents that much
but I knew there and then that that was a sacrifice that I was going to have to make
in that it wasn't about working all the hours.
In fact, I made sure that I didn't do that.
(36:57):
I made sure that what I did was reasonable so that I had a balance between bringing these
boys up and being present which I knew was going to be really, really important and going
out and, you know, and working and whatever else comes into it.
And what about the press?
How did you deal with like press intrusion and, you know, that side of things?
(37:18):
Well, there was a, actually it was amazing that I remember someone recommended that I'd
go to the Press Complaints Commission and just saying to them, is it possible that you're
able to help me to put something out that means that it is not possible that we are
able to be followed, whether that's legally or from a sort of moral point of view, but
(37:41):
that I'm not going to put these children in another photograph, you know, or another magazine
literally for the rest of their child until they're old enough to decide for themselves.
So can you support us with that?
And they did.
They put something out to all media agencies that sort of just stated that we were off
(38:01):
limits again.
I don't know if it was a legal document or what, but I think from hearing from people
since then, watching Jade die was ultimately what the media did.
It was really intrusive and actually to the point where they actually sort of questioned,
started questioning themselves and the industry and the way that it operates to get that picture
(38:24):
and that story, you know, like cameras over the fence when she's sort of, you know, she's
there and there are final sort of days and months.
And as a result, I think it was a request on my part that was actually met with relief
from a lot of people, because I guess meant that their employer wasn't going to send them
(38:45):
to come and sort of follow us to the play park or, you know, to school one morning,
because I just knew that they were up against it, my two, and I knew that that would definitely
be one way that I could reduce the complications of our life up until that point.
Any single parents out there that have suffered a loss, any advice you could give them?
(39:09):
Yeah, don't put as much pressure on yourself as I know that I did to be the solution to
everything because it's actually impossible.
You'll be the solution to some things.
The children themselves will be the solution to lots of other things.
And to some things, there won't be a solution for it.
And it will just be an incident or an example of something that your children use to better
(39:34):
themselves in the future.
So yeah, putting lots of pressure on yourself as I did to, I remember saying to people,
I'm going to bring these children through their childhood as relatively unscathed as
possible.
I don't even know what that language meant or what I meant by it.
I was incredibly naive to even think along those lines because looking at it, you literally
(39:54):
can only be a menu and you can hope that your children embody some of the things that are
good about you and maybe ignore some of the things that aren't.
Yeah, I think we've been typically human in our family and we've worn our vulnerability
on our sleeves, which I also know for men is pretty difficult.
(40:19):
But I want to give that advice as well to say that your situation as a single parent
means that you are going to be in a vulnerable situation.
So make sure you don't deny yourself the right to express that and have someone support you
with it as well.
Ask for help more.
I didn't ask for help enough because I was trying to sort of purvey that I am coping.
(40:43):
And actually I was making it up literally every moment that went along and I would have
done far better if I'd have allowed myself to be supported far more.
But I didn't become comfortable with being vulnerable until I'd done some work and that
was probably when I hit around late 30s, 40s.
(41:06):
You started your career in a reality TV show and then obviously you've got your two boys
and one of them went into Strictly Come Dancing, signed up for that reality TV show.
How did you feel about that?
That was okay because he had already acted and modeled.
So let me explain that statement.
(41:27):
I had been telling both boys from as early as I can remember to avoid reality TV, actually
the industry en masse because I guess my concern would be that they would just be a convenient
continuation of a story that the media did very well out of and probably wouldn't stop.
(41:51):
You have to dictate what you want to do and what you want to be as opposed to letting
an industry just basically say, well, look, you're someone's children so therefore this
is kind of the work that you should be doing.
And obviously they don't knock at your door and say, right, this is what you're going
to be.
But I think I was just mentioning it because I had, and I know their mom had experienced
(42:14):
quite a lot of challenge and sort of pain on account of how it operates, what the system
entails and how actually you have to be really careful because you have to sort of almost
worry about what you sign up for because it can give way to, I just, I know myself personally,
basically you just get swept into something and you can lose identity as a result.
(42:40):
And that's a really difficult thing to learn.
It's an even harder thing to recapture.
So why I say it's important that Bobby had done something else first is just so simply
he didn't have to go through the indignity of being named as somebody else's son.
Not that there's anything wrong with that because obviously Jade was absolutely incredible
(43:02):
and she was the best mom that I could have hoped to have had children with.
But for the individual who's left and embarking on his own sort of career and his own adult
life, the fact that he actually has his name and it wasn't taken away from him, which
it would have been, meant a lot actually.
(43:25):
That was really important.
He might not necessarily know that that was important, but I guess because I'd experienced
that, I was obviously particularly mindful of it.
So whether it was model Bobby Brazier or actor Bobby Brazier, it's his name.
We all know that he's Jade's son and we're all incredibly proud of her for bringing him
(43:48):
into the world.
I know I had a little bit to do with that, but let's face it, it's all about the mom.
So yeah, that's why that was particularly important.
I was pleased that he had done that.
Oh, that's such a lovely thing to say.
It's all about the mom.
It's not all about the mom though, is it?
It is all about the mom.
It is all we can do without dads.
(44:10):
You can't say that.
I can.
We can do without dads.
We really struggle if we haven't got a mom.
Wow.
That's my experience.
Really?
Yeah.
Dads can be unbelievable.
I think dads can be enough, but a mom is always enough without question.
(44:33):
Wow.
Is that shocking a statement?
Yeah.
I mean, wow, I've just never heard anybody say it's all about the mom.
No, it is.
Women run the world, right?
They should do.
We're all much safer when women are in charge.
Wow.
(44:53):
There's less ego.
You just have a greater capacity, I think, for making better decisions that are not based
on self-interest.
I find women's company much more comfortable.
But again, I know completely because of my own experiences growing up, but I think that's
(45:15):
why I can say that not all moms are particularly maternal or whatever.
We're all different in our own ways and we've all got things that we're great at that we
bring to the table that are fantastic and there's things that we need to develop.
But a generalization for me would just be that let's hope that if we're going to be
(45:40):
brought up by a parent that it's a mom typically.
You are an inspiration, Geoff.
You really are.
I love the fact that you're doing the courses and constantly self-development.
I think that's just so inspiring to listen to.
It definitely made me think I want to go away and go, right, what course can I turn up to?
Have you ever done anything spiritual?
No, I need to.
(46:01):
Have you ever meditated?
I don't have time for it.
Oh, that's terrible to say that.
It's terrible.
You've got time for everything.
Yeah, I do.
I need to learn how to switch off a bit more, I think.
You say you've got your bucket list now, five years until you're 50, which I can't believe.
What's on that bucket list for travel, for work?
Tell me.
(46:21):
Yeah, I haven't really got very far with it, actually, so you can help me create it.
But yeah, that top one, that top line is going back to Fiji.
I can't wait to take the family.
There are so many beautiful memories in that place.
And as much as it's been turned into a resort, it's still the same island, the shape of it's
the same.
The tree that's at the bottom of a spit of rocks that I used to lean up against and watch
(46:45):
the sun come up, that's still literally there, probably with my initials carved into it as
I did.
So yeah, to go back there will be really magical, I think.
And how many years on?
It'll be like 30 years on, which is just where does it go?
I don't know.
And that is as far as I've got.
I love golf and paddles, so I want my travel to incorporate these things.
(47:06):
And this is what a lot of my friends are into.
It's so middle aged, I can't believe I'm actually sort of going on about it.
But yeah, to go to a place that offers both, I think Portugal's pretty suitable for those
elements.
Otherwise, think less about destinations abroad.
(47:29):
I've just signed up to a few courses, a few festivals that are more conscious festivals,
sober festivals.
I'm into spirituality, so I love to meditate and I'm really intrigued and interested to
learn about all the other things that people are doing to be good people and to be well
(47:52):
within themselves.
So I've signed up to a few of those things.
And these are things that I go off on my own with my campervan.
And I just see that as my own personal development, if you like, just sort of broadening my horizons.
And I like that tribe.
So yeah, off to a few of those.
I've signed myself up to like a trauma retreat, which is not where you go to experience trauma,
(48:16):
but obviously to heal from it and to undo it.
And I'm always, I kind of do that.
I relish those opportunities because someone will approach it, whoever the practitioners
are with a very different sort of outlook.
And you'll always learn something.
I'm desperate to go to one of these places where you don't talk for 10 days.
(48:39):
I can't remember what the name of them are, but you know, usually to be found in sort
of like Thailand or Vietnam or sort of.
So I'd like to do some of that as well.
I like trains.
Really?
Yeah, I like trains.
So I'd like to do some interrailing.
I'd like to do Italy by train.
I want to sit on trains that have the most incredible views.
(49:03):
That would make me really happy.
It's an amazing experience.
It's quite a lot, isn't it?
Can you give me some inspiration?
Yeah, absolutely.
We can talk about train trips through Europe.
Like it is one of the most amazing ways to see places.
But obviously, Geoff, this is called the Mile Fly Club.
Oh yeah.
So we do need to know, are you a member of the Mile High Club?
Really?
Is that where you take it?
(49:24):
Of course.
I'm not, no.
You're not?
No, I'm not, no.
Nothing?
I'm no prude, but I've managed to.
You haven't?
Well, look, you've got your bucket list, so maybe you should add that to your bucket list
before you're 50.
Kate will never agree to that.
Really?
Yeah.
She works in travel PR, so come on.
(49:44):
No, she'd be too scared, much too scared to do that.
Geoff, it's been so lovely to chat to you.
Thank you so much.
You are officially a member of the Mile Fly Club.
Not the Mile High Club.
Not the High Club.
But the Mile Fly Club.
It's been an absolute pleasure catching up with you, Lauren.
Thank you.
And thanks to all the listeners out there.
We love having you all as members of the Mile Fly Club, so stay tuned for more fantastic
(50:08):
episodes coming soon.
Joining the club this week is my favorite Essex life page.
(00:04):
Jeff Brazier.
Jeff Brazier.
Jeff Brazier.
He's a father, broadcaster, author, former Shipwreck contestant and has just been racing
across the world with his son, Freddie.
I wanted him to have the development that you would get from a life-changing experience
like that.
I hope that it gave him some more confidence and self-belief.
(00:24):
The OG of reality TV.
That whole island that I was shipwrecked on looks like the ultimate holiday destination.
It's now a five or six star resort.
So we do need to know, are you a member of the Mile High Club?
Really?
Is that where you take it?
Of course.
This actually has very, very, very little to do with me and everything to do with my
(00:51):
dad.
He's completely different to me.
He's really brave and he's really confident.
How did you cope with the loss of the mother of your children?
I wasn't with Jade so I didn't feel like I really had the right to make it about me in
the slightest, even though I knew I was the one who was holding the weight of the responsibility
(01:14):
of bringing the kids up.
Watching Jade die was ultimately what the media did.
It was really intrusive.
Welcome to the Mile Fly Club, your VIP lane to first class travel tips, tell old talk
and turbulent life tales.
Think the Mile High Club only with more clothes, but no less revealing.
(01:35):
Each week I'll be inviting high flying globetrotting guests to bear all in my club.
So if you're searching for some tantalizing travel tidbits and a good old gossip, you've
arrived at the right destination.
Now sit back, relax and get ready to join me in the Mile Fly Club.
(01:55):
Ladies and gentlemen, we've now reached our cruising altitude.
I'll go ahead and turn off the seatbelt sign.
So sit back, relax and enjoy the flight.
Jeff Frasier.
Oh, it's so lovely to see you.
We're long overdue a catch up.
Oh, we are.
This is just convenient that we would maybe do it in the form of a podcast.
So I have lots of questions about travel, about property.
(02:16):
Can we cover everything?
Of course we can.
But first of all, welcome home.
Because didn't you just not long return from a trip, Brazil to Chile?
Yeah, Freddie and I did race across the world, but it was actually we got back in April.
So, you know, these things obviously take a while to edit and get out there.
But it was great because it was actually scheduled to be later on in the year.
(02:38):
But the BBC wanted to put it around the Olympics because of the race element.
I can't see us winning a gold medal for our performance, but it was quite an experience.
And how long is the journey?
Five weeks.
Right.
Amazon to the Andes.
So that's cool.
I didn't think we'd be going to South America.
You don't find out where you're going literally until you get to the airport.
(02:59):
They keep it a really close guarded secret.
They don't want you looking at the language and learning any that's going to help you.
They don't want you sort of getting any guidebooks that you can sort of sneak in your bag and
have an advantage.
They want you literally to not have a clue.
And we didn't.
Amazing.
So then they're like, right, you're going to a place called Belém.
(03:19):
Where's Belém?
And it's the gateway to the Amazon.
It smelled a lot like fish.
What an incredible experience.
And with one of your boys.
Yeah, I mean, to do it with Freddie was really amazing.
He is the most kind hearted person I know.
And I wanted him to have that, the development that you would get from a life changing experience
(03:43):
like that.
I hope that it gave him some more confidence and self belief because as a dad, I kind of
look at him and feel like that's what he would benefit from.
A little bit more of a sort of grounded knowledge of like, actually, this is what's good about
me.
I think a lot of young kids, I'm fair to call him a kid, a lot of young adults would actually
(04:03):
look at themselves and because of Instagram and holding the mirror that is Instagram up
to themselves and maybe feeling like they don't compare or they don't quite measure
up to everybody else or where they should be.
I just hoped that he would see it himself because I see it.
I've seen it the whole time, really.
But and everybody else sees it funnily enough.
You know, he'd gotten so well with everyone.
(04:25):
Everyone loved him.
And it would just be really interesting to see obviously how he comes across it.
There was just so many beautiful, magical moments where I'm like, oh, I'm so proud
of you.
Well, you I mean, you must be incredibly proud of both of them.
I mean, I've I've obviously known you since our Dancing on Ice days.
2011.
Yeah, 11.
Yeah.
You know, and you've had a pretty good at that.
(04:48):
You're annoyingly good.
Come on, you're pretty good as well.
I mean, you have had an incredible career.
I mean, it's kind of like, where do we start?
Because it all began for you back in 2001, right?
In shipwrecks.
Yeah, yeah.
So I guess I like what you've done next.
This is a travel element.
And actually, it brings me full circle.
Something I was going to really mention was the book that I'm reading at the moment, which
(05:10):
is Die with Zero from Bill Jenkins.
So whenever we say the word die, it's always like, oh, is this morbid?
Far from it.
It's just about really gaining a perspective around why we earn what we earn and save what
we save and invest in what we invest in.
And we have any real strategy around actually when this money should be spent, because the
(05:31):
majority of people actually leave it too late and they die with a lot and a lot for a lot
of people.
It's like, great, my kids can have it.
But yeah, but you haven't given it to your kids at the right time because now they're
going to pay inheritance tax because you haven't got your affairs in order.
So it's a really educational book, but it's also very thought provoking as well.
(05:51):
So the reason why that ties in is because my shipwrecks experience was in a place called
Yakouby Leyvoo.
It was six hours boat ride south of Fiji, which is the, sorry, Suva.
It's six hours boat ride south of there.
And it's now a five or six star resort.
It is now that whole island that I was shipwrecked on looks like the ultimate holiday destination,
(06:19):
but it's expensive, really expensive.
And I've always looked at it and thought, I have to do that for my 50th.
So I'm five years away from that.
So anyway, this book is all about now I'm looking at experience.
I'm looking at, right, I've done lots of things.
I've traveled to lots of places and I feel really good about that, but I need to keep
making a, you know, build on that bank of memories with all my favorite people, loved
(06:41):
one, family, friends.
What else can I do?
And if I was to draw up a bucket list, which I've never really done because I feel, and
I wonder whether you feel the same.
I feel quite spoiled in that I've traveled a lot and seen a lot of things.
So I don't necessarily have that burning desire to retire and then travel because I've kind
of done a fair bit of that already.
(07:04):
But if I, yeah, if I was drawing up my bucket list, which I've started doing the trip to
my shipwrecked island is at the top of it.
I mean, look, you were how old when you did shipwrecked?
I think I turned 21 when I was at it.
And you, you know, you're saying you're 50, which is mad in five years time.
It really is incredible to have had the career that you have had.
(07:26):
You had two sons, both of which I obviously met in Dancing on Ice.
They were weenie then, Bobby and Freddie.
And you know, you've done an incredible job bringing them up for a lot of the years on
your own.
How, how, how did you manage, manage that to bring up two incredible boys?
(07:48):
Right.
So honestly, I think parents take too much credit with how children turn out.
I think that there is an influence that we can have more so in just who we are, what
we do, how we do it, that they absorb because they just maybe share those traits with you
or they actually look at certain elements and think I respect that about dad.
(08:10):
So it would make sense for me to embody that behavior as well.
Then I honestly believe that the kids make up the majority of it themselves.
There's a lot of free will involved.
There's a lot of needing to go through the stages.
Like both of them have had difficulties.
Both of them have also sort of shone in, in, in, in respects as well.
(08:31):
And I think that's the typical journey for any childhood teenager.
You know, it's slightly different for them now.
We didn't grow up with the difficulties around social media.
And I've seen my two struggle with that first and I'm sure that's a common experience for
most parents.
But for me, I just look at it and say like they're in one piece, which is amazing.
It has been a bit of a struggle.
(08:52):
There have been a lot more challenges, but you can also look at those as lessons.
So of course, it hasn't been plain sailing.
Obviously, you know, they, they lost their mom.
That's a massive thing to have, have like dealt with.
And you know, how you met, you met your now partner, you travelling.
(09:13):
How I want to do want to talk a bit about, about Kate, but how was that kind of introducing
Bobby and Freddie to, to Kate for the first time?
I don't think Kate wasn't my first partner since, since I split up with their mom quite
a few years prior to that, to be honest.
So I kind of knew what my rules were that I was comfortable with and that is that if
(09:38):
I'd been with someone for six months and I felt like it was going somewhere that for
me personally was like that, that was how you qualify, whether it's the right time or
not.
So yeah, Kate was 10 years younger than me actually.
So I was 34, which is no age anyway, but she was 24 and I didn't, I didn't really know
that it was going to sort of go where it went.
(09:59):
So I just knew that I'd spent a week with her in Mauritius.
Another lovely destination.
Yeah.
And what were you doing there?
I was working for her this morning, filming a competition and she was the PR that was
looking after the hotel.
She's still in PR now.
I thought she was incredibly good at her job, really professional, but also really beautiful
(10:21):
and really hot.
Yeah.
Sort of quite unassuming as well.
She didn't know that she was hot.
She didn't care that she was hot.
She just cared that she did a good job and looked after us and was efficient.
She's all about, I've never met anyone quite as intelligent as Kate as well.
So no surprise that in the last 10 years of her career, she's gone to where she's gone
(10:43):
to just purely because I saw it all.
I saw it all there and then, and obviously we might have snogged at some point during
that week.
I'm always surprised that she's really funny because whenever you go away and you might
find it's the same for yourself.
But I'm pretty sure they don't use people that they think would be a problem for the
(11:08):
talent.
I'm sure it's a consideration.
I'm sure it's like, oh, there'll be too much distraction.
Let's not use that person.
Who knows how it works, but it was like, I'm just sort of now recounting what I'm saying
and it's like everyone that was ever on a shoot with me was unattractive.
(11:29):
Far from it, but Kate was just my type, dark hair.
It was like, yeah, you are definitely my type.
So yeah, 10 years later we're married.
How did that happen?
And we've had our ups and downs as well and we can be really proud of ourselves for how
much we've dug in and persevered.
And we did all the right things.
(11:51):
We gave each other space when we needed it.
We went to couples therapy when we needed it and that is a revelation by the way that
will potentially save a marriage and keep it on track because that's definitely been
the case for us.
Just learning conflict resolution actually and to be aware and mindful of other people's
triggers and how not to sort of detonate that landmine as we sort of used to refer to them
(12:18):
as because we've all got them.
We've experienced some difficult stuff growing up and there's likely to be things that we
find particularly difficult.
For me, fairness, someone not taking responsibility for something they've done that has maybe
sort of caused some issues.
When people are like, I know I didn't say that, I didn't do that.
(12:38):
That I find difficult because I'm like, I can overcome these things, but only if you
can be, I guess, brave and adult enough to just sort of confront it head on.
So yeah, we've come through a lot, like a lot of it, around Kate being a stepmom and
being a very young stepmom.
Was there ever a talk of or is there ever any talk of any more children or is that very
(13:00):
much a done deal?
For me, I guess I would have been open at a point.
I do much of my children being young.
I love being around my friends' kids who are that age because I think it sort of, it reminds
you of a version of yourself that you maybe put away because your kids don't need you
to be that anymore because they've got older.
(13:22):
That said, I do think, and it's something that I actually learned on Race Across the
World is that for all the difficulties and the challenges, you have to remember to be
playful, regardless of how old your kids are.
And that's something that I sort of lost a little bit.
So I've been around your friends' kids who are of a younger age sort of to help you to
(13:42):
stay playful.
Coming back to Race Across the World, what was the most challenging bit of filming that
show?
Well, imagine being in a sauna and being in a sauna for five weeks.
That was challenging as it was and not being able to shower very often.
I've met at service stations for football or work or whatever on many occasions.
(14:02):
I've always looked at the truckers that go in to have a shower and thought, ugh, there's
no way I would ever use them.
Fast forward a few years and there I was in Brazil, literally just loving any shower I
could get in any bus garage.
It didn't matter how close I had to get changed to the urinals.
To be clean was something I really valued.
(14:25):
It's something we absolutely take for granted.
The language barrier was huge as well.
Imagine not knowing that you were going to Brazil, therefore you don't have any Portuguese
typically.
So you try and learn it as quickly as you can, but you're not allowed to actually ask
someone to get their phone out to translate.
That's against the rules.
They're allowed to offer it, but you can't prompt it.
(14:48):
So actually your hands are tied and you're a bus garage.
They don't have any English because they more often than not, unless you're in Sao Paulo
or Rio, they just don't need it.
They didn't get taught it in schools and why would they or why should they?
So when you're trying to play charades for the 80th time and you know you're about to
miss your bus and it's a seven hour wait until the next one, it was full of challenges actually,
(15:14):
but great lessons for both of us.
Yeah, and you had moments where there was a bit of friction between you and Fred.
And Fred, yeah, absolutely.
I didn't foresee that naively because in real life, Fred is the most easy going, easy to
get on with, kind of sold it, I know.
But there was this thing about he realized in the moments that we were maybe reading
(15:39):
the guide to find out what we were going to do on the next leg.
That whilst I'd already sort of been to him the night before with the map, just saying,
it's likely that we're going to sort of head in this direction.
These are some of the things that I know are sort of around these areas like UNESCO World
Heritage sites, whether it's the Guacu Falls or the Sierra Verde Railway and Curitiba.
(16:06):
You know, these would all of a sudden would be sat there.
And I'd think, oh, Fred didn't care.
He wasn't interested last night.
He literally sent me away when I was trying to have like a team meeting with him.
And then all of a sudden he just come in with this really strong opinion.
I think he realized in the moment that it would be embarrassing for him not to have
an opinion and that he kind of saw it as needing to if dad said right, he'd want to go left.
(16:32):
So all of a sudden he was literally and everything that I suggested and just without really wanting
to go to wherever it was, he was saying he just insisted.
So that was difficult and we didn't get any better at it as it progressed.
In fact, I learned to just be like, go on, Fred.
(16:54):
Can I ask, you know, your children obviously going what they went through, would you say
that they almost had to grow up a bit quicker and in the same way that, you know, they lost
their mom, you lost your dad.
Would you say that you had to grow up a bit more quickly?
Slightly different.
I definitely had to grow up quick and I'm going to go on to say that my children haven't
(17:14):
necessarily matured quicker and I've never really considered why.
So it'd be interesting to look into.
But I had to grow up because I was on my own.
I was literally taken away from my mom at a very young age.
She was only 15 when she had me.
So I spent years in foster care with a particular family.
And I remember when I went back with my mom and I was around five years old and she was
(17:37):
allowed to have me because she was with my stepdad.
So these were the conditions by all account of the social workers, social services.
So I guess when you're in foster care and you know you're not with your mom and dad,
you suddenly would probably become very good at surviving, I guess.
(18:00):
Not that, you know, the environment needed me to survive and feed myself and stuff like
that.
But in terms of emotionally, there's something so important about being around your mom for
any youngster in those developmental years.
So all the things that I guess you don't get, you have to provide to yourself.
(18:21):
And it's quite sad to think of a little Jeff or any child that doesn't get that.
But that said, it ends up being a little bit of a superpower.
That's where your resilience comes from.
That's where your ability to navigate the difficulties that life can throw at you.
And I've had a few.
I've been tested and I'm sort of proud of how I've been able to navigate.
(18:42):
In fact, I'm brilliant in a crisis.
I don't want any crisis, but you chuck me in one, I'm always going to be out to keep
my head.
I'm incredibly aware.
So this is another trait that I think people that have grown up in certain environments
will always sort of realize that they've got.
But they spot things coming.
They just get a sense of people and their intentions maybe.
(19:05):
And these are things that can end up actually being really quite useful.
But going back to your question, it's really interesting.
I don't think my children did grow up particularly quickly.
And whilst they would have had to have been slightly more self-sufficient because they're
typically in a family, there is two people doing everything and you are completely in
(19:28):
their care.
And then I guess it was just one person who was doing everything.
A lot of people like, yeah, well, you become mom and dad.
And I always sort of fight against that a little bit because I think that there is only
one mom and there is only one dad.
There are people that can come into the child's life and play a really beautiful, wonderful
(19:49):
role.
But ultimately, they will never ever be on a par with that individual unless they're
not present in your life for any reason.
That's just my feeling.
So I always feel it's potentially a little bit disrespectful to their mom to sort of
say that I assumed her role.
I didn't.
I just wanted to adapt the father that I needed to be.
(20:12):
Well, you have done an incredible job.
And I think that Bobby and Freddie, look at what they're doing.
I mean, Bobby's been in Strictly, he's Stenders, he's a catwalk model.
I mean, where's it going with him?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Wherever he wants to take it is the sort of headstrong, stubborn individual that will
(20:33):
pretty much dictate.
Whereas, he was talking to me about sort of how long he stays at EastEnders and when he
maybe goes off and sort of tries his luck in America and stuff like that.
I don't really give opinions just because he's completely different to me.
He's really brave and he's really confident and he has no ceiling to what he thinks that
(21:00):
he can develop to be.
He thinks whatever he puts his mind to, he can do.
I think you're a bit brave and a bit confident.
In some ways, but actually not as much as people would maybe imagine.
That's why I've had a fairly safe career, in all honesty.
I've not pushed the envelope, let's say.
(21:20):
I haven't been brave enough to go off and do some of the things that you've done with
property where you have to take financial risk.
But I am working on it.
That's a big part of my development currently is just taking more risks and I guess believing
in myself and the fact that if that person can, then you can as well.
(21:44):
Let's talk about travel with the boys.
Where have you been to as some of your favourite destinations together?
Oh, yeah, we've had some really beautiful holidays.
Yeah, we went to Mauritius, Sugar Beach.
That was an exceptional holiday.
It was beautiful.
In fact, what always springs to mind is when me and the boys had a race along the beach
(22:08):
and we filmed it, someone was stood at the finish line.
As much as I'm 45, I always sort of rate myself as like the boys don't really work out that
much.
So I was feeling unfitter and stronger than you.
Shame on you that you haven't caught me up yet.
Come on, what are you doing?
So yeah, that's a race.
I got left for dust.
Those two were sort of neck and neck and I was like still halfway down the beach.
(22:34):
So that's a lovely memory.
Otherwise, yeah, we've been to a lot of different places.
Portugal does feature a lot because Kate's parents had a place in Preta Luz.
And you got married there.
Talk about your wedding in Portugal.
Got married in Calvoiro and it was, I love the Algarve actually and since I've become
very, it's wrong to say proficient in golf because I'm still trying to get off 18 but
(22:58):
do you play, don't you?
I do play a little bit golf.
You actually with a friend of mine as well, I think, Harry.
Harry Sellers playing golf, weren't you?
Harry's amazing.
Yeah, we did.
We went away to Scotland and had a really beautiful trip.
So yeah, the wedding was everything I could have ever hoped for.
I'll be honest, I didn't ever think that I'd get married because I didn't have a particularly
(23:18):
great example of marriage when I was growing up.
So I'd always...
Were you married to J?
No, I wasn't.
You weren't.
No, no, we didn't.
We just had kids.
We did it in reverse.
So yeah, we went out to Portugal.
So you never thought you would get married?
I didn't.
I didn't because to me, I think I'd quite early in my life equated marriage to pain.
(23:42):
I just put all kinds of negative attachments to it.
So I just thought, why would I put myself in that position?
I also, for having some commitment issues through being quite avoidant, I guess, for
not having that connection with my mum early on in my life, something I've had to unravel
and done plenty of work on.
(24:03):
But because of that, I just struggled to get past three years with...
I'd say I was with a partner at the time that we did Dancing on Ice and that got to the
three-year mark.
And as incredible as she was, I just couldn't do it.
I wasn't ready to be able to commit to someone and all the pain or fear and jeopardy that
(24:23):
that sort of conjured up even the thought of it.
I didn't realise that at the time.
I just convinced myself that, oh, the relationship's not good or I need to come out of this because
it's not quite right.
And I never really understood why.
There's nothing to do with a relationship.
It was purely about the fact that I was going to have to confront something that would be
(24:44):
really uncomfortable for me and I wasn't ready to look at myself inwardly to be able to get
to grips with that.
You talk about your experience to Mauritius with the boys, but do you still go on holiday
with them now?
I mean, you've got two young men.
Yeah, getting everyone together, they're both working, so getting everyone together at the
(25:06):
same time might be slightly harder.
But we've got a camper, so that opportunity for us to even go away for one evening.
Is that not quite intense though in a camper van?
Yeah, we'd all do the camper together, I think.
Kate would worry about noises in the middle of the night and stuff like that.
What kind of noises?
The noises that come out your backside.
(25:27):
Oh no.
Yeah, she's not good with stuff like that.
But otherwise, look, these are, again, referring back to that book that I talked about, Die
with Zero, it's about we're in the business of making memories because otherwise we'll
see all four.
So yes, I would go away with these kids.
But to cater for all of us and to keep us all in the same place at the same time, I
(25:53):
think it needs to be somewhere that Fred and I can go off and play golf and then somewhere
that's got a paddle court so Bobby and I can go and play paddle because that's what we
do together.
And then also somewhere that organizes little football matches because that's what we all
do as the three of us.
And what about Kate?
Where does she fit in with the football matches?
Yeah, Kate and I, we like to do, I say we like to do dance classes.
(26:16):
I'm only referring to that because there was a dance class at Sugar Beach in Mauritius
and we all really loved that.
Actually, Freddie went missing.
He didn't want to do it.
But I think that that's something that we absolutely would do together on holiday.
Dancing together.
Yeah.
With Freddie, without Freddie.
(26:37):
Fred will probably miss that out.
Well, Bobby's obviously the dancer, very good dancer, taking part in Strictly.
There's been a bit of controversy with that show at the moment.
Has, did Bobby mention anything to you?
Yeah, I can safely say that Diane never shouted at Bobby once, even though he probably deserved
(26:57):
it a few times.
I can't speak for the show on mass or any of the other couples or anything, but I just
know that Bobby and Diane got on great and I think Diane is probably one of the most
exceptional human beings that we've ever come across.
I'm very grateful that he was with her.
Well, if you liked to dance, didn't you kind of watch and think, I wish that was me?
(27:18):
I keep getting asked that and I just think that's Bobby's space.
Bobby was there and he was pretty good as well.
You'd be silly to follow.
I don't know, you said you're competitive with running along the beach.
I reckon you'd like to give it a go and see if you, you know, how you fared.
Absolutely no chance would I be anywhere near as good as him.
(27:39):
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah, he took it to a level that I didn't see coming.
And I know that you surprise yourself, like any contestant that goes on there, like reaches
a level that they didn't think that.
We know this from Dancing on Ice.
He got really good at skating.
I just couldn't do the performing bits.
No, you were good.
You were great.
(28:00):
No, no.
I just can't believe how long ago it was.
I think it's because of Dancing on Ice, maybe also that I wouldn't necessarily put myself
up for Strictly because I remember that I was really good at one element, but not so
the other.
And it's the other element that's really important in Strictly.
It would be easier because you're not on ice basically, you're not sort of in danger of
(28:25):
being dropped.
You were with Colin, weren't you?
I was.
Come back to me.
Who were you with?
Isabelle Gaultier.
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(28:46):
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(29:06):
You say that when you were 15 that you were taken away from your mum.
What happened?
No, I was 15, no.
From pretty young, maybe one or two.
Wow.
From that formative years, basically.
That would have been, I don't remember much of it, but I can only imagine that there was
(29:27):
a little Jeff pretty scared and unsure of his circumstances because he wasn't where
I guess all children know they're meant to be.
But it wasn't a negative experience in that I don't remember any incidents in particular
that where you're like, oh, that wasn't right.
It just was that I wasn't with my mum.
(29:48):
I guess you have to be resilient when you're growing up in a fairly hostile environment
because my mum and stepdad were young.
They were trying their best to have a relationship and for everything to work.
But the truth is that it just was really difficult for both of them and it resulted in a lot
of arguing.
So I guess there's a resilience gained from again feeling unsafe in your environment.
(30:14):
There was a lot of that really.
We had to run away.
We ended up being rehoused in a little village.
Who had to run away?
Me, my mum, my brother.
So we ended up in Tiptree where the jam comes from and life really started to sort of move
from there actually.
That's when I discovered I had some confidence and I think our environment actually affects
(30:40):
us far more than we actually realized.
And to be out of that environment and into something that felt a little bit freer, a
little bit safer, a little bit easier was a massive turning point for me.
It was then another sort of one on the list of things was realizing firstly that my stepdad
wasn't my real dad because I didn't know until my mum sat me down one day and asked
(31:03):
me if I wanted to meet my real nan and granddad.
So the language was really interesting.
It's amazing how we store memories because instantly I had a flashback to my stepdad's
story.
He had to sort of punch his way into a flat that we had been evicted from I think.
And he was sat on the edge of the bath and I remember walking in and saying, Rob, your
(31:28):
hand's bleeding.
You wouldn't have called him Rob if he was your dad.
So I was like, oh yeah.
So that made sense.
I said yes to meeting the family.
My next question was obviously why not my real dad?
And then she told me about the Marchioness Bobel disaster, the fact that he was the skipper
and I heard a lot about that story.
And I've been hearing a lot about it ever since from my nan, obviously, who lost her
(31:50):
son.
So that's an interesting one.
I've obviously had to understand and look at grief from quite a close perspective.
But my own experience is that it's interesting how can you grieve someone that you didn't
actually meet.
But I guess the only way I'd sort of describe the effect that that would have on someone
(32:12):
is that there is a gap next to you, a void where someone should be.
And you're very aware of that gap.
Because in that, you know, every time that life has ever been particularly challenging,
like when the boys lost their mom, just how much of a resource would my biological dad
have been?
You know, how helpful would my friendship relationship with him have been?
(32:34):
How different, how much difference would he have made to my football career?
To anything, how would I be different with my dad in the picture?
So I guess you can't regret losing what you didn't have.
But you can absolutely just sort of, I guess, hold a little bit of space for the things
(32:56):
that you would have experienced that you didn't get to, the support that you might have had
that you were denied.
You know?
I mean, I've got to say, Geoff, it is incredible sitting here and listening to you because
I've known you for many years, but I don't feel like I've known all of this stuff about
you.
And I think that, you know, it's so easy, isn't it, for people, as you say, like when
(33:17):
they look at social media and they read things in the press, they're like, oh, lucky you
get to go to all these amazing places.
What a charm life.
But no one really knows, like, just what you have, what you've been through, like as a
child, as a parent.
I mean, it's something else.
It really is.
And that's what I'm saying.
For you to have had the career you've had and to be where you are right now.
I mean, it is amazing.
(33:38):
We've all got a story, but just this is the way that we bounce back from these things
or how we potentially even learn to use the tools that we gain from it to actually further
our lives, our careers, our friendships and relationships.
And I'm really grateful that I am the sort of person that just wants to grow and develop.
(34:02):
So where I came from and what I experienced doesn't define me, nor does it hold me back.
Any limitations that has been sort of left on me, I work hard to sort of loosen up and
diminish, if you like.
I mean, you're a life coach now, right, as well?
(34:25):
That's another probably byproduct of it.
I've always been really interested.
I've told you all about my childhood, but I've always been really interested in human
behaviour.
I guess I was looking at my stepdad and my mum quite early in my life thinking, why are
they angry?
Why are they shouting?
Is it because of the childhoods that they have?
(34:45):
And that's a really mature question to be asking yourself at a really young age.
So I've always sort of seen beyond someone's immediate sort of response or behaviour and
always sort of asked the question, well, why have they acted that way or why have they
said that thing?
So I guess it kind of helps you to understand people a little bit more, yourself a little
(35:08):
bit more.
I also hope that it would help me to be a better parent in that, you know, to be typically
coach-like is to actually ask a question where most would give an observation or an opinion
or some advice.
So just to learn that actually and to learn how vital it is to give people the opportunity
to be heard.
(35:30):
You know, that was worth doing that qualification all those years ago just in itself.
Without the support of your biological father, how did you cope with the loss of the mother
of your children?
Yeah, I didn't start coping with it, I don't think until maybe seven or eight years later
when I started having therapy because at the time I remember doing what is quite typical
(35:52):
really and that is that I made it all about the kids.
I wasn't with Jade so I didn't feel like I really had the right to make it about me in
the slightest even though I knew I was the one who was holding the weight of the responsibility
of bringing the kids up and what that meant and knowing that, you know, obviously there
was a public interest in it as well.
(36:12):
But my mum was incredible as was my auntie Leslie.
I always have to mention that because my mum went so far as moving home to actually support
us in those early years when it was, you know, when I really needed help like to be able
to carry on working.
I was working this morning, sort of two or three days a week at the time with other stuff
(36:35):
and I was really grateful at the time.
I remember just thinking this is amazing that my mum can do the school drop and I'll always
be home to pick them up and I know a lot of kids wouldn't see their parents that much
but I knew there and then that that was a sacrifice that I was going to have to make
in that it wasn't about working all the hours.
In fact, I made sure that I didn't do that.
(36:57):
I made sure that what I did was reasonable so that I had a balance between bringing these
boys up and being present which I knew was going to be really, really important and going
out and, you know, and working and whatever else comes into it.
And what about the press?
How did you deal with like press intrusion and, you know, that side of things?
(37:18):
Well, there was a, actually it was amazing that I remember someone recommended that I'd
go to the Press Complaints Commission and just saying to them, is it possible that you're
able to help me to put something out that means that it is not possible that we are
able to be followed, whether that's legally or from a sort of moral point of view, but
(37:41):
that I'm not going to put these children in another photograph, you know, or another magazine
literally for the rest of their child until they're old enough to decide for themselves.
So can you support us with that?
And they did.
They put something out to all media agencies that sort of just stated that we were off
(38:01):
limits again.
I don't know if it was a legal document or what, but I think from hearing from people
since then, watching Jade die was ultimately what the media did.
It was really intrusive and actually to the point where they actually sort of questioned,
started questioning themselves and the industry and the way that it operates to get that picture
(38:24):
and that story, you know, like cameras over the fence when she's sort of, you know, she's
there and there are final sort of days and months.
And as a result, I think it was a request on my part that was actually met with relief
from a lot of people, because I guess meant that their employer wasn't going to send them
(38:45):
to come and sort of follow us to the play park or, you know, to school one morning,
because I just knew that they were up against it, my two, and I knew that that would definitely
be one way that I could reduce the complications of our life up until that point.
Any single parents out there that have suffered a loss, any advice you could give them?
(39:09):
Yeah, don't put as much pressure on yourself as I know that I did to be the solution to
everything because it's actually impossible.
You'll be the solution to some things.
The children themselves will be the solution to lots of other things.
And to some things, there won't be a solution for it.
And it will just be an incident or an example of something that your children use to better
(39:34):
themselves in the future.
So yeah, putting lots of pressure on yourself as I did to, I remember saying to people,
I'm going to bring these children through their childhood as relatively unscathed as
possible.
I don't even know what that language meant or what I meant by it.
I was incredibly naive to even think along those lines because looking at it, you literally
(39:54):
can only be a menu and you can hope that your children embody some of the things that are
good about you and maybe ignore some of the things that aren't.
Yeah, I think we've been typically human in our family and we've worn our vulnerability
on our sleeves, which I also know for men is pretty difficult.
(40:19):
But I want to give that advice as well to say that your situation as a single parent
means that you are going to be in a vulnerable situation.
So make sure you don't deny yourself the right to express that and have someone support you
with it as well.
Ask for help more.
I didn't ask for help enough because I was trying to sort of purvey that I am coping.
(40:43):
And actually I was making it up literally every moment that went along and I would have
done far better if I'd have allowed myself to be supported far more.
But I didn't become comfortable with being vulnerable until I'd done some work and that
was probably when I hit around late 30s, 40s.
(41:06):
You started your career in a reality TV show and then obviously you've got your two boys
and one of them went into Strictly Come Dancing, signed up for that reality TV show.
How did you feel about that?
That was okay because he had already acted and modeled.
So let me explain that statement.
(41:27):
I had been telling both boys from as early as I can remember to avoid reality TV, actually
the industry en masse because I guess my concern would be that they would just be a convenient
continuation of a story that the media did very well out of and probably wouldn't stop.
(41:51):
You have to dictate what you want to do and what you want to be as opposed to letting
an industry just basically say, well, look, you're someone's children so therefore this
is kind of the work that you should be doing.
And obviously they don't knock at your door and say, right, this is what you're going
to be.
But I think I was just mentioning it because I had, and I know their mom had experienced
(42:14):
quite a lot of challenge and sort of pain on account of how it operates, what the system
entails and how actually you have to be really careful because you have to sort of almost
worry about what you sign up for because it can give way to, I just, I know myself personally,
basically you just get swept into something and you can lose identity as a result.
(42:40):
And that's a really difficult thing to learn.
It's an even harder thing to recapture.
So why I say it's important that Bobby had done something else first is just so simply
he didn't have to go through the indignity of being named as somebody else's son.
Not that there's anything wrong with that because obviously Jade was absolutely incredible
(43:02):
and she was the best mom that I could have hoped to have had children with.
But for the individual who's left and embarking on his own sort of career and his own adult
life, the fact that he actually has his name and it wasn't taken away from him, which
it would have been, meant a lot actually.
(43:25):
That was really important.
He might not necessarily know that that was important, but I guess because I'd experienced
that, I was obviously particularly mindful of it.
So whether it was model Bobby Brazier or actor Bobby Brazier, it's his name.
We all know that he's Jade's son and we're all incredibly proud of her for bringing him
(43:48):
into the world.
I know I had a little bit to do with that, but let's face it, it's all about the mom.
So yeah, that's why that was particularly important.
I was pleased that he had done that.
Oh, that's such a lovely thing to say.
It's all about the mom.
It's not all about the mom though, is it?
It is all about the mom.
It is all we can do without dads.
(44:10):
You can't say that.
I can.
We can do without dads.
We really struggle if we haven't got a mom.
Wow.
That's my experience.
Really?
Yeah.
Dads can be unbelievable.
I think dads can be enough, but a mom is always enough without question.
(44:33):
Wow.
Is that shocking a statement?
Yeah.
I mean, wow, I've just never heard anybody say it's all about the mom.
No, it is.
Women run the world, right?
They should do.
We're all much safer when women are in charge.
Wow.
(44:53):
There's less ego.
You just have a greater capacity, I think, for making better decisions that are not based
on self-interest.
I find women's company much more comfortable.
But again, I know completely because of my own experiences growing up, but I think that's
(45:15):
why I can say that not all moms are particularly maternal or whatever.
We're all different in our own ways and we've all got things that we're great at that we
bring to the table that are fantastic and there's things that we need to develop.
But a generalization for me would just be that let's hope that if we're going to be
(45:40):
brought up by a parent that it's a mom typically.
You are an inspiration, Geoff.
You really are.
I love the fact that you're doing the courses and constantly self-development.
I think that's just so inspiring to listen to.
It definitely made me think I want to go away and go, right, what course can I turn up to?
Have you ever done anything spiritual?
No, I need to.
(46:01):
Have you ever meditated?
I don't have time for it.
Oh, that's terrible to say that.
It's terrible.
You've got time for everything.
Yeah, I do.
I need to learn how to switch off a bit more, I think.
You say you've got your bucket list now, five years until you're 50, which I can't believe.
What's on that bucket list for travel, for work?
Tell me.
(46:21):
Yeah, I haven't really got very far with it, actually, so you can help me create it.
But yeah, that top one, that top line is going back to Fiji.
I can't wait to take the family.
There are so many beautiful memories in that place.
And as much as it's been turned into a resort, it's still the same island, the shape of it's
the same.
The tree that's at the bottom of a spit of rocks that I used to lean up against and watch
(46:45):
the sun come up, that's still literally there, probably with my initials carved into it as
I did.
So yeah, to go back there will be really magical, I think.
And how many years on?
It'll be like 30 years on, which is just where does it go?
I don't know.
And that is as far as I've got.
I love golf and paddles, so I want my travel to incorporate these things.
(47:06):
And this is what a lot of my friends are into.
It's so middle aged, I can't believe I'm actually sort of going on about it.
But yeah, to go to a place that offers both, I think Portugal's pretty suitable for those
elements.
Otherwise, think less about destinations abroad.
(47:29):
I've just signed up to a few courses, a few festivals that are more conscious festivals,
sober festivals.
I'm into spirituality, so I love to meditate and I'm really intrigued and interested to
learn about all the other things that people are doing to be good people and to be well
(47:52):
within themselves.
So I've signed up to a few of those things.
And these are things that I go off on my own with my campervan.
And I just see that as my own personal development, if you like, just sort of broadening my horizons.
And I like that tribe.
So yeah, off to a few of those.
I've signed myself up to like a trauma retreat, which is not where you go to experience trauma,
(48:16):
but obviously to heal from it and to undo it.
And I'm always, I kind of do that.
I relish those opportunities because someone will approach it, whoever the practitioners
are with a very different sort of outlook.
And you'll always learn something.
I'm desperate to go to one of these places where you don't talk for 10 days.
(48:39):
I can't remember what the name of them are, but you know, usually to be found in sort
of like Thailand or Vietnam or sort of.
So I'd like to do some of that as well.
I like trains.
Really?
Yeah, I like trains.
So I'd like to do some interrailing.
I'd like to do Italy by train.
I want to sit on trains that have the most incredible views.
(49:03):
That would make me really happy.
It's an amazing experience.
It's quite a lot, isn't it?
Can you give me some inspiration?
Yeah, absolutely.
We can talk about train trips through Europe.
Like it is one of the most amazing ways to see places.
But obviously, Geoff, this is called the Mile Fly Club.
Oh yeah.
So we do need to know, are you a member of the Mile High Club?
Really?
Is that where you take it?
(49:24):
Of course.
I'm not, no.
You're not?
No, I'm not, no.
Nothing?
I'm no prude, but I've managed to.
You haven't?
Well, look, you've got your bucket list, so maybe you should add that to your bucket list
before you're 50.
Kate will never agree to that.
Really?
Yeah.
She works in travel PR, so come on.
(49:44):
No, she'd be too scared, much too scared to do that.
Geoff, it's been so lovely to chat to you.
Thank you so much.
You are officially a member of the Mile Fly Club.
Not the Mile High Club.
Not the High Club.
But the Mile Fly Club.
It's been an absolute pleasure catching up with you, Lauren.
Thank you.
And thanks to all the listeners out there.
We love having you all as members of the Mile Fly Club, so stay tuned for more fantastic
(50:08):
episodes coming soon.
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