October 6, 2024 • 44 mins
As the UK’s favourite TV therapists, husband and wife team, Nik & Eva Speakman, have helped thousands of people conquer a whole host of issues, from the absurd to the sublime.
With their own unique style of therapy, this married couple has established themselves as the powerhouse pair of psychology but who do the therapists turn to when times get tough?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Today's guests are internationally renowned psychotherapists who have dominated the world of mental health.
(00:06):
Nik and Eva Speakman.
Eva Speakman
Nik and Eva Speakman.
Mental health's most influential couple.
And psychology's powerhouse pairing.
One of the biggest fears people have is flying.
A phobia is an irrational fear. Once you can rationalise it, you are able to start working through it to let it go.
(00:27):
No one is born with a fear of flying.
It's one of four things which is...
If you helped quite a lot of celebrities, do you know what?
If it wasn't for pesky NDAs, we could tell you some really good stories.
We did go...
I'm panicking now because I'm thinking what you're going to say.
Yeah, panicking. Could have been all sorts of things.
But we did actually work with someone in Malibu and had this incredible bookcase here, but some of them were the spine in.
(00:48):
And I'm like, they just don't work right.
There was a reason why there was spine in. I wish I could tell you what it was.
You've got to tell me what was behind the spine.
It was...
But who do TV's top therapists turn to when times get tough?
I'd never felt quite as low ever than at that point.
And the worst part of it was that I felt like a real fraud.
Here's me, this therapist telling people to be positive, to be happy.
(01:12):
And yet inside I felt that I was just falling apart.
Sorry.
I just had this influx, again, of symptoms.
And I'm like, what the hell's going on?
Welcome to the Mile Fly Club, your VIP lane to first class travel tips, tell old talk and turbulent life tales.
(01:36):
Think the Mile High Club only with more clothes, but no less revealing.
Each week I'll be inviting high flying globetrotting guests to bear all in my club.
So if you're searching for some tantalising travel tidbits and a good old gossip, you've arrived at the right destination.
Now sit back, relax and get ready to join me in the Mile Fly Club.
(02:01):
Ladies and gentlemen, we've now reached our cruising altitude.
I'll go ahead and turn off the seatbelt sign. So sit back, relax and enjoy the flight.
With their own unique style of therapy, this married couple are bestselling authors, fellow podcasters, presenters
and have established themselves as the powerhouse pair of psychology.
Welcome to the Mile Fly Club, Nick and Eva Speakman.
(02:24):
Thanks for having us.
So lovely to have you here.
Now, as a husband and wife team, we've been together over 35 years.
I've got to start this by asking, Mile High Club, are you members?
Sadly not.
No.
Sadly not.
No.
I'm too well behaved.
(02:45):
Well, there was some intent there, wasn't there?
Yeah, she said sadly not.
No, I didn't answer.
But you know, you've travelled, you work together and I was literally got off a plane yesterday.
A lot of turbulence actually on the flight back last night.
And one of the biggest fears people have is flying and turbulence.
(03:08):
How do you help people get over that?
No one is born with a fear of flying at all.
So it's one of four things, which is either having a traumatic event on a plane,
having copying behaviour, which is quite common, copying your parents of the nervous flyers,
being told that you're a nervous flyer or transferring one fear to another.
(03:33):
So for example, you've got claustrophobia and you're transferred to the plane.
So no one's born with any of those things.
So that's one thing.
But the other item is, obviously, turbulence.
I think that's really a lack of understanding, which frightens people because you're on a plane
and suddenly it's moving all over the place.
And for us, it's explaining what that actually is.
(03:54):
And it's no different to driving down the roads these days
because the roads are literally full of potholes.
And if you can have a smooth road, you would always choose that.
But the car goes in potholes and you're all over the place.
Or a ship on the ocean, they're trying to avoid bad weather, but occasionally they're moving all over the place.
Do you think, though, the facts that maybe for people they often think,
well, I'm in the car, I'm in control when you're in a plane, someone else is flying
(04:20):
and you just don't know what's going to happen?
Yeah, the thing control, actually, it is an excuse.
In that, yes, you are in control of a car, but you're not in control of the person that's driving towards you.
And all that separates you is a white line.
So it's literally a lot of people say, oh, it's because I can't control it.
I can't control the plane. And what actually that means is they can't control their emotions and anxieties and fears.
(04:45):
But again, to prove that that's just an excuse, you'd never not get in a taxi because you're not in control.
True. Yeah. So if there is somebody with a fear of flying right now, what would you say to them?
My first thing would be try and understand where it came from, because like Nick said,
transference is the most common cause of a fear of flying. So is it actually that you have claustrophobia or is it actually that you have a fear of heights?
(05:10):
Or is it perhaps that you observed your parents being nervous flyers?
Because when, you know, by definition, a phobia is an irrational fear.
So once you can rationalize it, you are able to start working through it to let it go.
So that would always be step one. And step two would be to actively seek positive factual evidence about the fact that flying is incredibly safe,
(05:35):
that a plane isn't going to fall out of the sky if you experience turbulence and therefore, you know, and an aeroplane has never let you down.
Because when we get on an aeroplane, what is our intention? And it's to take us to our destination safely.
And the question is, when does an aeroplane let you down? And the fact that we're all sat here, we know it hasn't.
(05:56):
So it's really unfair to blame an aeroplane for making you feel bad when it's never actually done anything wrong.
Great advice. So aside of, you know, fear of flying when it comes to travel, have you ever come across any other fears that people have when it comes to traveling?
There's so many, Laura, and funnily enough, actually, even cabin crew. The last time I flew back from New York, I spent the full journey helping five cabin crew.
(06:25):
Seriously. You're joking. That's not reassuring at all.
Different things. One was a relationship issue. But one of them, right, I know they were different.
But one of them was a fear of turbulence. And I was like, how come should I have been cabin crew for 25 years?
She said, but last year I was in the place where they sleep. And I didn't actually, I've never seen one of these places.
(06:53):
But apparently when they're doing a shift and they're allowed to do so many hours, they go and sleep. But it's like a really thin bed. Have you seen them?
I haven't. I haven't. But I can imagine. It was kind of explained like it was kind of a little pocket in the plane where you get into it.
Sounds quite like an MRI scan almost, you know, that kind of thing.
Basically, she was in this bed and they hit some really bad turbulence and she was in a really deep sleep and she'd just walk up and just banging up, you know, banging her head on the ceiling of this place and moving up and down.
(07:23):
And she was absolutely terrified. And since then, it created this fear. And she said, I've got to be honest, she said, I will not go and sleep anymore.
She said, so I'm doing double shifts. I'm having to drink lots of coffee and, you know, it's not right. It's not good for my health and so on.
And I helped all five of them get over their issues on the flight back from New York. So it's.
(07:44):
So no, no, no enjoying first class.
Actually, Nick is in his element. Yeah, Nick is in his element. I mean, he literally had a queue of people that were sort of like, can I go next?
He just I mean, literally, we can go on a supermarket and we have people coming up to us, you know, I've got a fear of birds. I've got a fear of custard. I've got a fear of heights.
I've got a fear. Moths was the last one. And yeah, you know, so I'll kind of go. I'll go shop Nick and I'll meet you in a minute.
(08:11):
Because when you know you can help somebody and you know it's not going to take a long time, if you feel you can, it kind of feels wrong not to.
I'm sure that is. But do you not feel sometimes you just want to be able to like switch off and go and do your shopping?
You are highly recognizable. You know, you're obviously in the UK, very well known and your work taking you to America as well.
(08:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we don't mind. There are occasions like we've got our family with us.
We're doing something as a family. But most of the time it's a short chat. Yeah, I'm just obsessed with helping people and I don't understand.
You know, why why wouldn't I? You know, there are some times don't get me wrong where you just go, you know, I need to take some time out.
But it's not very often because the thrill of getting someone over something and knowing that it will not only change their life, but everyone around them is just immense.
(09:05):
It's like, you know, I've never done drugs, but this is like a drug. I can imagine it's the same euphoria.
Where did it all begin for you then? That would be Nick. Yeah, it was me.
And it's a long and probably a boring story. So you're going to have to edit this down.
But basically when, yeah, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Honestly. Yeah. I don't think you need the full story.
(09:28):
And when I well, I'll try and make it as brief as possible. So I was really ill as a child and with with asthma.
And because of that, I was constantly on medication as a result of constantly being on the medication, which with antibiotics all the time.
It damaged my bowel. And when I was 19, I started going to the toilet and losing blood.
And I just thought, we can all talk about going to the toilet or anything like that.
(09:53):
And I was really embarrassed about it and I didn't want to do it. I thought it would go away, but it never did. And I collapsed.
I ended up in hospital. I didn't realize my skin had turned gray. And basically I got told that I had toxic mega colon, which is you have an inflammatory bowel disease,
then usually colitis or Crohn's disease, and then it can become ulcerative colitis.
But mine had gone a step further because my bowel was so ulcerated it was going to rupture.
(10:18):
And I was actually poisoning myself and I become toxic. And the I was in hospital and the nurse said to me,
she had you very lucky because the gastroenterologist who's looking after you is probably the best in the country because the professor
and he lectures several universities and, you know, look after you. And he came to see me and he said, right, OK.
(10:39):
He said, if you don't do anything, you probably get about six, six to eight weeks to live.
He said, but I'm going to save your life because what we're going to do is going to remove your bowel and give you an ileostomy and a costomy bag.
And I said, yeah, I don't know if I answered that. What else is there?
Now, you know, I must say that I've met a lot of people with costomy bags and I know that they're fine, but it wasn't for me.
And I said, what else is there? And he said, well, there isn't anything else. He said, you know, it's one or the other.
(11:01):
And I fortunately, my dad had always I've been brought up with and with the belief that there is always an answer.
You can always fix everything. And he always used to say to me that the answer to everything, the key to life is in the library.
So I decided to send myself out of the hospital, go in the library and I started reading all the medical books because the gastroenterologist said bowels don't heal,
(11:23):
which I just didn't say it right. But anyway, I all the medical books said the same thing.
Bowels don't heal. And but then I realized because I thought, well, my mom always used to say to me
because I was like one of those kids that I skateboards and on a bike and I'd always fall off and I'd scuffs on my knees.
And she always used to say, if you pick them scabs, they're never going to heal.
(11:46):
And I thought, well, is that why bowels don't heal? Because from the moment we're born, we never stop eating and we never give them a break and give them a chance to heal.
So with that theory in mind, I was still taking strong medication, by the way, but I started.
Yeah. Steroid animus. I'll just give you more. Yeah, you're welcome.
(12:08):
And so I fasted and I started to feel better, but obviously you can't fast forever because that's going to kill you as well.
So so then started. I looked at what's the least invasive of all foods, which is unprocessed brown rice and started having small portions every day.
And then I introduced one food at a time. And what I discovered, Laura, was that some foods made me ill, some foods made me feel great and some foods didn't really do anything.
(12:36):
And I ended up after a year and a half of a list, three lists, and I took transform the list to the foods that made me feel great.
And I took out everything that made me feel ill. And I've still got my bowel. You know, I'm like 40 years on and I'm perfectly healthy.
So in answer to your question, which is a long, long answer to a very short question, what I realized in that moment that information is flawed.
(13:00):
And I had the top guy, potentially the top guy in the UK telling me something that wasn't entirely true.
I mean, he was correct that he would have saved my life if he'd removed my bowel, but he didn't look at the alternative.
So I started questioning information. So everything from that point, I wanted to know why. Why is that, you know, instead of just accepting things?
(13:21):
And I started studying psychology at the same time as other things. But I realized that, you know, psychology is flawed.
A lot of the things that, for me, psychology tends to study the abnormal as opposed to looking at the normal.
So things like statistics, like, you know, three people can witness a traumatic situation and one will end up with PTSD.
(13:43):
So psychology works with that one person, whereas I was more interested in what about the two that don't get PTSD?
Why is it they view it differently? What is it they do and how can we use that? So a long answer.
Right. So a pretty turbulent, you know, teenage years into your young adult years. And what about you, Evelyn? What was your childhood like?
(14:07):
Well, I did have a very turbulent childhood in that, you know, very well provided for, didn't do without anything, but home life was incredibly turbulent.
I was bullied at school and as a home wife wasn't wasn't very calm. And by the time I met Nick and the way that I met Nick, incidentally, was that I was literally, you know, I was like 20 years old.
(14:29):
Just got this 22 actually. Honestly, I was 20. Can I tell you? Because I remember everything. Right. It was the 30th of August, 1991. Right.
So you were 22 and five months. Well, maybe. Anyway, by the by. So I've got this I've got this new job and I was there, you know, with this company car and went back after a meeting to my car and my car had been stolen.
(14:57):
And I was absolutely mortified. And this is like pre I'm saying it was pre mobile phones, which it kind of was for most people. But Nick had one. I am not kidding. It was colossal. He had a briefcase to carry.
The briefcase was the battery. Imagine, remember Dom Jolley. That scene with the big phone. Hello. So he said, anyway, I thought, oh my God, what I'm going to do. My car's been stolen. I was really upset. But I thought, well, I can't cry because, you know, I've got a suit and a briefcase.
(15:28):
So I bet I'd grown up and I just went into this office and I walked into this office and sort of explained my car had been stolen. Could I please use the phone? There's this guy sat behind the desk with a dodgy perm that happened to be Nick.
And Nick was like so kind. He rang the police. He rang my dad. He drove me home. And this was a complete stranger. And but he was just so nice. He got one of his admin girls. I said, please, would you go get her a cup of sweet tea? Because I was really sort of shaken up.
(15:58):
And and that was that really that's how we met. I didn't fancy him or anything, but I just thought, what a nice guy. And Nick was flying out to Florida the following morning in the early hours, which sort of made me think, gosh, even kinder because like he knows he's got to be leaving soon.
So he made sure that I got home safely. So I did say to him, when you're back from America, I'm going to take you for lunch. And literally, that was it. The minute we went for lunch, we started talking and it was kind of whirlwind from there. We very quickly.
(16:30):
We became really good mates. And then very quickly, we just kind of it just all fitted. But when I met Nick, Laura, in answer to your question, I was quite broken in that I had very low self-esteem, really hated myself.
I had an issue with public speaking. I had phobias of spiders, heights, claustrophobia. I'd just kind of gone through an eating disorder. So I meet this guy who's like hugely positive and everything, everything, no matter what, you know, it's like, oh, it's raining.
(17:03):
But luckily, it's going to water the plants or, you know, you know, I've got to go shop. He always had something positive saying, first of all, what planet are you from? But I was quite intrigued by this sort of positivity because I had not witnessed that.
And so when I met Nick, he always says that I was his first project. And we just got on really well. But it was Nick that actually got me into psychology.
(17:38):
And when he first started telling me about his philosophies on things, you know, about planning your life and things like this, I was like, yes, but I went with it because, you know, when you first meet somebody, you want to be polite. So I thought, I'll go with it. And everything he said was spot on.
I've never, ever set goals before in my life. And suddenly these things seem to be manifesting these amazing things. And it was all thanks to Nick, really.
(18:01):
Wow. Very inspiring. Very inspiring. And look, you mentioned Florida there, that you were flying off to Florida the next day. Florida has played quite a big part in your relationship. What was taking you to Florida then?
Do you know what? It was really interesting because my first job was in engineering, fully enough, and I was a development engineer for this company. And when I went to Florida, I went for an engineering course, as it happens. But when I was out there, I just loved the weather.
(18:33):
I just thought, you know, I should be in a warm climate. I just love the weather. And I thought, I'm going to look for jobs over there. And I couldn't find anything in engineering. But I thought, right, OK. So I went and I studied and got my Florida real estate license.
And then that sort of went on to getting a degree in real estate and then a master's in real estate. And then I ended up getting a PhD in business administration in Florida.
(19:04):
But all the time at the back of that law, I was studying psychology and we tend to listen to authority figures. And it always stuck with me that if I had listened to that gastroenterologist, I would have had a stoma.
And I've heard, I've spoken to so many people about them that, you know, you can live with them. It's OK. But there's a lot of difficulties. And I thought that would have made such a difference to my life if I would have listened.
(19:31):
But the big thing that came out of this for me is that we readily accept information off authority figures and we don't challenge it.
One thing I'd like to share with everyone is that whatever anyone tells you, it's an opinion, right. It's an opinion based on their interpretation of what they've learned.
Right. And it doesn't make it right or wrong. Right. And that was something it always always stood with me and everything. And just one thing, right, which was a really big thing that brought this home for me.
(20:00):
When we bought our home, which is really interesting that our our first day we had in this in this fabulous hall.
So it's a restaurant hotel and we have our first day there in the UK or America.
And we sat there and we were saying, wouldn't it be great to live in something like this? Because it's very old building, didn't know that much about it.
(20:22):
And this is back in 1991 and then in 2000 it came up for sale and I was like, let's go have a look at it.
And he said, oh, you know, could have been there a few times since. But anyway, long story short, ended up buying it. And that's where we live now.
And that's where we live now. So we live in the building that we had our first day.
Yeah. And it's a super cool building. It's 800 years old. And I think one of the coolest facts about it is that in the 1400s, the owners employed a scholar to look after to tutor the kids.
(20:53):
And that scholar was a man called William Tyndale. And William Tyndale translated the Bible into English in our house.
So the Bible that we read today is thanks to William Tyndale translating the Bible from Hebrew into English in our home, which is like, oh, which is like so super cool.
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(21:14):
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(21:45):
We're talking of property. You're very passionate about property, aren't you? Which is great. I'm loving that. You nearly bought Moby's house, didn't you? In LA.
Well, actually, it wasn't his house at the time, though. It was Doris Day's house.
You nearly bought Doris Day's house.
Right.
Right. So what happened? We we went out to LA. We got asked to do a TV show and we did this this pilot for the TV show with with Fox.
(22:15):
And it was I mean, it was a massive show. I wouldn't believe the budget was like an initial. Initially, it was a million dollars.
I mean, they sent a private plane for us. I mean, that's what we're talking about.
Oh, now we're talking private jets.
Yes, it was. It was amazing. It was so you know, we had a car.
But then there was like what we're driving. We'll drive to the site and we're like, no, no, no. We'll send a limo for you.
(22:39):
And we had a lint lady that just kept running around and just linting us. And it was just very surreal anyway.
And do you know what? Lint. She was a lint lady with a roller and just rolling us.
Between sets. Yeah. And you know, no matter what you said, suddenly it appeared.
You know, I said to Nick, well, on the way home, I need to get some floss. And then this big bag of floss appeared.
I think, you know, dental floss. However, so we were out there. We'd got asked to do this to film this pilot.
(23:02):
Was this before your TV career had launched in the beginning?
No, it was 2000, I think it was 2000, late 2010, early 2011. So it was a while ago.
And we were actually doing a TV show before that.
And we did two series and it did really well. But the production company who made it went bankrupt.
(23:26):
And they owned the rights to the show and we couldn't carry on doing the show.
And also we couldn't carry on doing anything of that ilk for two years, which is why we were like, OK, well, let's go and do something in America.
So we're doing this pilot for Fox and the show is going to be called Panic Attack.
And it's people with extreme phobias. And at the end of the show, they've got to do something that someone without that phobia would never want to do.
(23:54):
So, yeah, for example, we had five people with a fear of heights that was very severe, even down to not be able to one of the ladies wasn't able to wear heels.
Monica had to move on to a ground floor property.
However, at the end of the series, we had to get them zip lining from one skyscraper to another in downtown L.A.
So, I mean, we just loved L.A. and we started looking at property out there.
(24:16):
And then we came across this most magnificent and beautiful property, didn't we?
Yeah, it's a fabulous property. And it's near it's on the edge of a reservoir near Hollywood, near the whole overlooking the Hollywood sign.
It's called Wolf's Lair. And it was owned by Doris Doris Day.
And we look around and we were like, oh, this is amazing.
(24:37):
And the market over there was quite depressed at the time.
It seemed really good value for what it was. And we were like, right, OK, if this show goes where we want it to go, we're going to buy that property.
And we're going to move there because we're going to need to because, you know, this is going to be a big thing.
And actually, the production company that we were working with were the ones who who set Gordon Ramsay onto his career in America.
(25:04):
So it was, you know, it was like this is going to happen. This is going to work.
And, you know, we had the reality guru of the world, a guy called Mike Dynale, who created American Idol.
And he was like, this is going to be the next best show. And then we did the show and it was amazing.
And then he left and it was just like he left Fox and someone else came in and it was like, yeah, we're not looking for that type show.
(25:29):
And it didn't happen. So we never bought that property.
And then and then at the time we were looking at it, so was Moby looking at it and he ended up buying it.
Yeah. And and then I don't know, five years or 10 years later, he sold it and made a massive profit on it.
But anyway, yeah, one of those things. And what a story.
(25:51):
But you still love L.A. I love it. You still. And you got married there. We got married in Florida, actually.
We got married in Florida. We were together for like five years. Nick asked me to marry him.
And I wanted because I'm Polish, I wanted a traditional Polish wedding, which meant a big white wedding.
And the tradition of the Polish wedding is that hundreds of people, loads of people, bride's father put so much money behind the bar.
(26:13):
And the wedding continues until all the you know, it's all gone.
And that's what I wanted. Whereas Nick was like, I want to get married in Florida.
And his best friend happened to live in Florida, who he wanted to be best man. And he couldn't travel.
So we ended up going, you know what, let's just do both.
So we actually got married on Sanibel Island in Florida, which was just beautiful.
(26:35):
Our friend Frank, who wasn't able to travel due to sadly having been shot.
And therefore he he was paralyzed from sort of chest down.
And he was able to be our best man, which was which was wonderful.
And then we went on a honeymoon to St. Lucia, which was just fabulous.
And then from St. Lucia, we came home again and then we did the whole Polish wedding.
(27:00):
We had three hundred and eighty people there.
A wedding you don't in a Polish wedding, you don't do kind of a daytime and an evening.
It's everybody kind of just turns up, rocks up together.
So we had three hundred and eighty people and the wedding went on for three days.
We bailed after day two. Wow. Why did you honeymoon in St. Lucia?
It was just somewhere I'd said, was always somewhere that I'd wanted to go, wanted to visit.
(27:25):
And and because to be honest with you, because when we did, it was like a package thing,
this wedding that we did and they arranged the whole thing for us and St. Lucia was somewhere I'd always wanted to go.
And we went and it was just stunning. I loved it. Absolutely beautiful.
Our favorite place. My friend was our best man at the wedding.
It was originally from Hawaii and we've been to Hawaii a few times and absolutely love it.
(27:50):
I've never been to Hawaii. You know what?
Hawaii is beautiful because the climate is fantastic and the people are just amazing.
Obviously it belongs to America, so you've still got that kind of vibe of the sort of modern restaurants, et cetera, and that kind of vibe.
But it is just stunning, like crystal clear waters.
I just think if we were going to retire, that would be the place we would go.
(28:14):
Oh, it's on my list. I want to talk about your children because you've got two, haven't you?
Liv and Hunter. And Hunter is actually in Massachusetts.
He is. Yeah. So our son Hunter, he decided he's always been really into biology and the human body and science.
And he's currently studying medicine. So he wants to be a doctor.
(28:38):
And he's in Massachusetts. So he's living in America right now.
But interestingly, he is majoring in medicine, but he's also minoring because, and another subject, which is psychology.
So who knows where. And I've got to say that he actually came home for summer and he was like, yeah, I'm really loving psychology, Mom.
And I said, look, whatever feels right to you.
(29:00):
You know, I was hoping that he was going to go down maybe the plastic surgery route so that in 20 years, if I needed a little bit of a judge,
I'd bugger off. But yeah, so whatever, whatever. But he's loving psychology. He did his minor in psychology and he really loves it.
Just talking about the time in America. I mean, have you helped quite a lot of celebrities over there?
(29:21):
We have. Yeah. Do you know what? And if it wasn't for pesky NDAs, we could tell you some really good stories.
But we have. We have worked with some really sort of very high profile people.
You can't tell me who they are, but can you reveal any of the maybe weird fears that they might have?
Well, I can tell you something that was very interesting to find. So we did go.
(29:44):
I'm panicking now because I'm thinking what's he going to say?
Yeah, I'm panicking. Yeah, I could have come up with all sorts of things here. But we did go to actually work with someone in Malibu.
And we noticed whilst we were, we spent quite a bit of time with them and they had this incredible bookcase and in this bookcase,
and they had all these books, but some of them and just like natural curiosity, but some of them were the spine in and I'm like,
(30:09):
they just don't look right. You know, they need to put them right.
But when pulled them out, there was a reason why there was spine in. But I can't even tell you who's and they were like, we're renting this house.
It's not our house, but I can't even. I wish I could tell you it was.
But you might as well say what you found behind the spine. Yeah, you've got to tell me what was behind the spine.
Yeah, it was pornographic stuff. Yeah, porn magazines. So yeah, so I was like, look, I'm like, this is going to be too short.
(30:33):
Before we get caught. So I was like, we're not snooping and we'd never snoop, but it was just like, then they put him right.
That's all it was. But yeah, there was a reason why they were that way around. But yeah, but yeah, in regards to anything we can share, can we?
It's really not that it's like that we could share. But I can share with you is talking.
(30:55):
Obviously, you know, let's try and get back to to travel. Try and get back to travel.
We did actually get a phone call to and was asked to work with Ashley Roberts because Ashley Roberts was presenting a show out there called First Look on NBC.
And a big part of that show was traveling. And so she was got to travel to different places, you know, in America and around the world, actually.
(31:22):
And a lot of those places had fishing villages and she had a massive phobia of fish.
And to the point that she was like, I just can't I can't go there. I can't go there.
And there were some places that they wanted to cover on the show. And she said, I'm not able to go. So they called us in and we we work with her.
Yeah. One of the people who work with her, I can't tell you what it is, but you just said that just sprung to mind.
(31:43):
You said, like, what kind of things? I think one of the most strangest things we got asked to help somebody with was they had a phobia of wet hair, but not wet hair on the head.
Wet hair in, you know, like in the plug hole and in showers and things like that.
So if they when they first went to a new hotel or they're renting a property whilst filming out in L.A., they would have to get somebody to go in and make sure that there was no stray wet hairs in the shower.
(32:14):
That was unusual. That's something we've only come across a couple of times, two or three times in our career.
Talking about strange things, did you film near the L.A. River?
Oh, dear. That was definitely a highlight. That was so much fun. So we were we were working on a feature.
I think it was the Spetans Go State side for this morning.
And because we were working one of the Pussycat Dolls with Carmete.
(32:40):
So you worked with a few of the Pussycats? Yeah, yeah, actually, that's true.
We went to we went down to the L.A. River to film like a music feature. First time I've done anything like that. And it was so much fun.
It was really cool. I must admit I have seen it and it's brilliant. It's bloody brilliant.
Well, you were. You were very bad.
(33:01):
It was. It was so much fun.
And it's like something we've never done before, but absolutely loved it. It was great.
You mentioned going back to where we were first chatting that you were Nick's first project.
Yes. With the things that you've kind of have struggled with in the past.
You've been quite open, I think, talking about perimenopause and menopause.
(33:27):
As a woman who is 42, I guess I'm going to be coming into perimenopause if I'm not already.
I don't know much really about it. What advice would you give?
I didn't know much about it either.
And when I the only reason that I found out that I was in perimenopause, Laura, is because my hair was falling out.
And, you know, and my concept of menopause was always hot flushes and your period stop.
(33:54):
That's what I thought. But I had neither of those things.
And it was because of hair loss and like really severe joint pain.
And I kept going back to the doctor. Oh, there's nothing wrong with you. But I was really persistent.
So my advice to anybody would be be persistent.
And the second thing that my bit of advice would be would be to go to a menopause charity.org and look on their website.
(34:17):
They have a symptom checker on there and look for the symptoms because you'd be quite shocked at the symptoms of perimenopause.
So for me, it was weight gain, hair loss, sort of my mood changed. I felt very low.
And, like I said, my periods, hot flushes, none of that at that time.
(34:39):
So, yeah, and when I'd never felt quite as low ever in my life, I don't think, than at that point.
And the worst part of it was, was that I felt like a real fraud because here's me, sort of this therapist telling people, you know, to be positive, to be happy.
And yet inside, I felt that I was just falling apart.
(35:01):
You know, I couldn't, my concentration was horrific. I struggled with remembering people's names.
I thought I genuinely, there was one point where I thought, you know, I've got some sort of form of Alzheimer's here that's happening early onset because of my memory.
And so eventually I did find out that I was in perimenopause and that was a blessing.
(35:23):
And then once I found that out and I started, I did go on HRT. I know it's not for everybody, but it was amazing for me.
And literally, I just got my life back. And that was a few years ago.
And did you sort of, you've obviously like bounced off of Nick in that time as you did when you first met?
Yes, I did. The only difference this time, it was a bit different in that.
(35:47):
So when I first met Nick and I bounced off him, I wanted to hear what he had to say.
Whereas this time I kind of didn't. It was like an apathy. I don't really care about anything, not even myself.
And it was, it was just like my head had been invaded and I didn't have any control over my emotions.
(36:09):
And then I got through that. But one thing I didn't expect, which is something that just happened quite recently.
So I have been championing, like, you know, oh, I've got through it. It's amazing. You can get through it too.
And then sort of earlier this year, sorry, I just had this influx again of symptoms, weight gain.
(36:36):
You know, again, the memory thing, really grumpy, joint pain, I can't sleep.
And I'm like, what the hell's going on? You know, I can't, I'm taking hormones. This, it can't, what can this be?
And again, you do sort of, because you are already on HRT, there is this kind of, you're already on HRT, so we're doing everything.
(37:00):
But I was kind of like, no, this, there's something not quite right here again.
And what I hadn't appreciated is that when you're going through perimenopause, you are still producing some hormones, but it's in peaks and troughs.
So, you know, what I hadn't realised was that when you actually do get through it then, the production of those hormones is just like fully stopped.
(37:26):
And so, and I've not evaluated since then. And literally just within the last few days, I've spoken to a consultant about it and just said, you know, I really need your help because this is not right.
And they sort of said, look, this is pretty common. But nobody told me that it was pretty common. So I didn't expect this.
I was like flying high and then suddenly felt like I fell on the ground with a thump.
(37:50):
And again, you sort of feel like a bit of a fraud because you've been sort of going on about, you know, rah, rah, rah, you can get through perimenopause.
And then I hit the ground again. And, but yeah, I'm now starting to pick myself back up again.
And I am starting to feel even knowing that this is actually a fairly normal thing.
And now we're evaluating both my hormones and the administration of those.
(38:16):
Because again, I didn't realise, you know, there's tablets, there's gels, there's sprays, there's patches. So I'm having a shift to that.
So, yeah, I'm on the right track again.
It sounds like it's a turbulent time for you. Would you say this is sort of the most turbulent time in your life so far?
I mean, I think, I think is it the most turbulent? I mean, in my adult life, I would say right now, yes, because, you know,
(38:42):
you sort of feel that you've that you're doing so well and literally life was great.
And then suddenly I feel like I've just taken this nosedive and because of because of menopause.
And I mean, I had to apologise to Nick last week only because I just said, look, I know that I am being really, really difficult, you know,
(39:06):
because I'm very zen. But I was picking at literally everything and anything.
And I've got to say, he is pretty amazing because he is so patient, so tolerant.
He just whatever I was moaning about, he just let it bounce off him and didn't pick up on it.
And but I did apologise to him.
(39:28):
And I think it was vocalising that apology and facing the fact that this what's happening right now is not acceptable.
And Nick was getting a bit frustrated with me from the perspective.
And it goes back to what you were saying earlier that I'd start I was taking advice off somebody about that helped me with my perimenopause.
But they they weren't telling me that this was normal, what I was going through and evaluating again.
(39:53):
So I was kind of staying on that path.
And it was only like a week ago that Nick that I was like, this is unacceptable.
And I actually walked away and found another avenue of help from, you know, again, menopause expert.
But they had different advice. And I think that's something that we often forget that, you know, it's OK when it's when it's us.
(40:16):
It's only one person that's going to be with you seven days a week, 24 hours a day all your life. And that is you.
And you do owe it to yourself to to find an answer, even if that means going to different places.
So I had to change my my consultant and the people that I've been asking help from.
(40:37):
And that was a really good thing to do. It was fresh eyes on this problem.
So right now, turbulence wise, yes, this has been a really tough time recently.
In childhood, yeah, lots of turbulence also, you know, in home life was quite turbulent.
Great times as well, obviously. But there was quite a lot of things that, you know, we went through as kids.
(41:00):
Turbulence in the home, there was turbulence at school because I was I was quite badly bullied.
I know I I was I was that kid in the playground really quite often.
That was just on their own because because I was bullied and I didn't
I didn't like to push myself in on friendship groups because I didn't feel that they wanted me to be there.
(41:25):
So childhood was definitely quite lonely.
I was just this floating person that had no no friends, no stability within school, no stability at home.
So that that was quite a turbulent time.
You are a power couple and it's been amazing going on this little journey with you.
(41:46):
So thank you so much. I would like to end on a high.
So what bit of advice could you give to our listeners, you know, to make them feel good?
Well, obviously, you set me up with a path and it's probably going to take another hour.
But no, it's a short haul flight, not a long haul one.
(42:08):
OK, I prefer the long haul. I love flying.
But anyway, yes, I would say that, look, no matter what trouble you have in your life right now, it will get better.
But you look back at your life. We've we're all incredibly amazing.
We've been through some difficult times in our life and we've always got better.
And, you know, I don't care what anyone has said to you about you not being able to get better.
(42:31):
It is not true. You can get better.
If you're not born with something, you certainly don't have to live with it.
And if you if someone's saying you can't get better, you need to speak to someone else until you find someone who says, yes, you can.
And they will help you because that's how it works.
And I I've never met anyone who can't get better.
And, you know, and it did frustrate me a bit, really, with Eva when, you know, I was saying, right, you're amazing.
(42:53):
You got through this perimenopause and you were fantastic and everything was great again.
And now you're going to this slump. If you're not being told you can get out of that, you need to find someone else who will do that for you.
And that's what's happened. Yeah, that's true.
And that's one thing that we obviously have no control in our mood and hormones because that sort of takes things out of our hands.
But one thing that helped me both when I was a kid, when things weren't quite so smooth and I was going through the turbulence
(43:16):
and even the turbulence recently in both sort of pockets of time with menopause,
there's two things that I've found that would really help me.
And I would sternly talk to myself. But the two things that really helped me was every morning I practiced gratitude and what things I'm grateful for.
And, you know, and that always does help. As does the second thing is having positive affirmations.
(43:41):
So, you know, only good things happen to me. There is always a solution.
And actually believe in there's only a solution because despite the fact that I was in a dip with my menopause,
I knew that I've got out of it once. I'm going to get out of it again.
And, you know, if it's possible in the world, then it's possible for me too.
And so that is that that is the thing that has helped me through most of my most recent turbulence.
(44:05):
Well, Nick and Eva Speakman, you might not be members of the Mile High Club yet,
but you are now officially members of the Mile Fly Club. Thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you so much.
And thanks to all the listeners out there. We love having you all as members of the Mile Fly Club.
So stay tuned for more fantastic episodes coming soon.
Today's guests are internationally renowned psychotherapists who have dominated the world of mental health.
(00:06):
Nik and Eva Speakman.
Eva Speakman
Nik and Eva Speakman.
Mental health's most influential couple.
And psychology's powerhouse pairing.
One of the biggest fears people have is flying.
A phobia is an irrational fear. Once you can rationalise it, you are able to start working through it to let it go.
(00:27):
No one is born with a fear of flying.
It's one of four things which is...
If you helped quite a lot of celebrities, do you know what?
If it wasn't for pesky NDAs, we could tell you some really good stories.
We did go...
I'm panicking now because I'm thinking what you're going to say.
Yeah, panicking. Could have been all sorts of things.
But we did actually work with someone in Malibu and had this incredible bookcase here, but some of them were the spine in.
(00:48):
And I'm like, they just don't work right.
There was a reason why there was spine in. I wish I could tell you what it was.
You've got to tell me what was behind the spine.
It was...
But who do TV's top therapists turn to when times get tough?
I'd never felt quite as low ever than at that point.
And the worst part of it was that I felt like a real fraud.
Here's me, this therapist telling people to be positive, to be happy.
(01:12):
And yet inside I felt that I was just falling apart.
Sorry.
I just had this influx, again, of symptoms.
And I'm like, what the hell's going on?
Welcome to the Mile Fly Club, your VIP lane to first class travel tips, tell old talk and turbulent life tales.
(01:36):
Think the Mile High Club only with more clothes, but no less revealing.
Each week I'll be inviting high flying globetrotting guests to bear all in my club.
So if you're searching for some tantalising travel tidbits and a good old gossip, you've arrived at the right destination.
Now sit back, relax and get ready to join me in the Mile Fly Club.
(02:01):
Ladies and gentlemen, we've now reached our cruising altitude.
I'll go ahead and turn off the seatbelt sign. So sit back, relax and enjoy the flight.
With their own unique style of therapy, this married couple are bestselling authors, fellow podcasters, presenters
and have established themselves as the powerhouse pair of psychology.
Welcome to the Mile Fly Club, Nick and Eva Speakman.
(02:24):
Thanks for having us.
So lovely to have you here.
Now, as a husband and wife team, we've been together over 35 years.
I've got to start this by asking, Mile High Club, are you members?
Sadly not.
No.
Sadly not.
No.
I'm too well behaved.
(02:45):
Well, there was some intent there, wasn't there?
Yeah, she said sadly not.
No, I didn't answer.
But you know, you've travelled, you work together and I was literally got off a plane yesterday.
A lot of turbulence actually on the flight back last night.
And one of the biggest fears people have is flying and turbulence.
(03:08):
How do you help people get over that?
No one is born with a fear of flying at all.
So it's one of four things, which is either having a traumatic event on a plane,
having copying behaviour, which is quite common, copying your parents of the nervous flyers,
being told that you're a nervous flyer or transferring one fear to another.
(03:33):
So for example, you've got claustrophobia and you're transferred to the plane.
So no one's born with any of those things.
So that's one thing.
But the other item is, obviously, turbulence.
I think that's really a lack of understanding, which frightens people because you're on a plane
and suddenly it's moving all over the place.
And for us, it's explaining what that actually is.
(03:54):
And it's no different to driving down the roads these days
because the roads are literally full of potholes.
And if you can have a smooth road, you would always choose that.
But the car goes in potholes and you're all over the place.
Or a ship on the ocean, they're trying to avoid bad weather, but occasionally they're moving all over the place.
Do you think, though, the facts that maybe for people they often think,
well, I'm in the car, I'm in control when you're in a plane, someone else is flying
(04:20):
and you just don't know what's going to happen?
Yeah, the thing control, actually, it is an excuse.
In that, yes, you are in control of a car, but you're not in control of the person that's driving towards you.
And all that separates you is a white line.
So it's literally a lot of people say, oh, it's because I can't control it.
I can't control the plane. And what actually that means is they can't control their emotions and anxieties and fears.
(04:45):
But again, to prove that that's just an excuse, you'd never not get in a taxi because you're not in control.
True. Yeah. So if there is somebody with a fear of flying right now, what would you say to them?
My first thing would be try and understand where it came from, because like Nick said,
transference is the most common cause of a fear of flying. So is it actually that you have claustrophobia or is it actually that you have a fear of heights?
(05:10):
Or is it perhaps that you observed your parents being nervous flyers?
Because when, you know, by definition, a phobia is an irrational fear.
So once you can rationalize it, you are able to start working through it to let it go.
So that would always be step one. And step two would be to actively seek positive factual evidence about the fact that flying is incredibly safe,
(05:35):
that a plane isn't going to fall out of the sky if you experience turbulence and therefore, you know, and an aeroplane has never let you down.
Because when we get on an aeroplane, what is our intention? And it's to take us to our destination safely.
And the question is, when does an aeroplane let you down? And the fact that we're all sat here, we know it hasn't.
(05:56):
So it's really unfair to blame an aeroplane for making you feel bad when it's never actually done anything wrong.
Great advice. So aside of, you know, fear of flying when it comes to travel, have you ever come across any other fears that people have when it comes to traveling?
There's so many, Laura, and funnily enough, actually, even cabin crew. The last time I flew back from New York, I spent the full journey helping five cabin crew.
(06:25):
Seriously. You're joking. That's not reassuring at all.
Different things. One was a relationship issue. But one of them, right, I know they were different.
But one of them was a fear of turbulence. And I was like, how come should I have been cabin crew for 25 years?
She said, but last year I was in the place where they sleep. And I didn't actually, I've never seen one of these places.
(06:53):
But apparently when they're doing a shift and they're allowed to do so many hours, they go and sleep. But it's like a really thin bed. Have you seen them?
I haven't. I haven't. But I can imagine. It was kind of explained like it was kind of a little pocket in the plane where you get into it.
Sounds quite like an MRI scan almost, you know, that kind of thing.
Basically, she was in this bed and they hit some really bad turbulence and she was in a really deep sleep and she'd just walk up and just banging up, you know, banging her head on the ceiling of this place and moving up and down.
(07:23):
And she was absolutely terrified. And since then, it created this fear. And she said, I've got to be honest, she said, I will not go and sleep anymore.
She said, so I'm doing double shifts. I'm having to drink lots of coffee and, you know, it's not right. It's not good for my health and so on.
And I helped all five of them get over their issues on the flight back from New York. So it's.
(07:44):
So no, no, no enjoying first class.
Actually, Nick is in his element. Yeah, Nick is in his element. I mean, he literally had a queue of people that were sort of like, can I go next?
He just I mean, literally, we can go on a supermarket and we have people coming up to us, you know, I've got a fear of birds. I've got a fear of custard. I've got a fear of heights.
I've got a fear. Moths was the last one. And yeah, you know, so I'll kind of go. I'll go shop Nick and I'll meet you in a minute.
(08:11):
Because when you know you can help somebody and you know it's not going to take a long time, if you feel you can, it kind of feels wrong not to.
I'm sure that is. But do you not feel sometimes you just want to be able to like switch off and go and do your shopping?
You are highly recognizable. You know, you're obviously in the UK, very well known and your work taking you to America as well.
(08:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we don't mind. There are occasions like we've got our family with us.
We're doing something as a family. But most of the time it's a short chat. Yeah, I'm just obsessed with helping people and I don't understand.
You know, why why wouldn't I? You know, there are some times don't get me wrong where you just go, you know, I need to take some time out.
But it's not very often because the thrill of getting someone over something and knowing that it will not only change their life, but everyone around them is just immense.
(09:05):
It's like, you know, I've never done drugs, but this is like a drug. I can imagine it's the same euphoria.
Where did it all begin for you then? That would be Nick. Yeah, it was me.
And it's a long and probably a boring story. So you're going to have to edit this down.
But basically when, yeah, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Honestly. Yeah. I don't think you need the full story.
(09:28):
And when I well, I'll try and make it as brief as possible. So I was really ill as a child and with with asthma.
And because of that, I was constantly on medication as a result of constantly being on the medication, which with antibiotics all the time.
It damaged my bowel. And when I was 19, I started going to the toilet and losing blood.
And I just thought, we can all talk about going to the toilet or anything like that.
(09:53):
And I was really embarrassed about it and I didn't want to do it. I thought it would go away, but it never did. And I collapsed.
I ended up in hospital. I didn't realize my skin had turned gray. And basically I got told that I had toxic mega colon, which is you have an inflammatory bowel disease,
then usually colitis or Crohn's disease, and then it can become ulcerative colitis.
But mine had gone a step further because my bowel was so ulcerated it was going to rupture.
(10:18):
And I was actually poisoning myself and I become toxic. And the I was in hospital and the nurse said to me,
she had you very lucky because the gastroenterologist who's looking after you is probably the best in the country because the professor
and he lectures several universities and, you know, look after you. And he came to see me and he said, right, OK.
(10:39):
He said, if you don't do anything, you probably get about six, six to eight weeks to live.
He said, but I'm going to save your life because what we're going to do is going to remove your bowel and give you an ileostomy and a costomy bag.
And I said, yeah, I don't know if I answered that. What else is there?
Now, you know, I must say that I've met a lot of people with costomy bags and I know that they're fine, but it wasn't for me.
And I said, what else is there? And he said, well, there isn't anything else. He said, you know, it's one or the other.
(11:01):
And I fortunately, my dad had always I've been brought up with and with the belief that there is always an answer.
You can always fix everything. And he always used to say to me that the answer to everything, the key to life is in the library.
So I decided to send myself out of the hospital, go in the library and I started reading all the medical books because the gastroenterologist said bowels don't heal,
(11:23):
which I just didn't say it right. But anyway, I all the medical books said the same thing.
Bowels don't heal. And but then I realized because I thought, well, my mom always used to say to me
because I was like one of those kids that I skateboards and on a bike and I'd always fall off and I'd scuffs on my knees.
And she always used to say, if you pick them scabs, they're never going to heal.
(11:46):
And I thought, well, is that why bowels don't heal? Because from the moment we're born, we never stop eating and we never give them a break and give them a chance to heal.
So with that theory in mind, I was still taking strong medication, by the way, but I started.
Yeah. Steroid animus. I'll just give you more. Yeah, you're welcome.
(12:08):
And so I fasted and I started to feel better, but obviously you can't fast forever because that's going to kill you as well.
So so then started. I looked at what's the least invasive of all foods, which is unprocessed brown rice and started having small portions every day.
And then I introduced one food at a time. And what I discovered, Laura, was that some foods made me ill, some foods made me feel great and some foods didn't really do anything.
(12:36):
And I ended up after a year and a half of a list, three lists, and I took transform the list to the foods that made me feel great.
And I took out everything that made me feel ill. And I've still got my bowel. You know, I'm like 40 years on and I'm perfectly healthy.
So in answer to your question, which is a long, long answer to a very short question, what I realized in that moment that information is flawed.
(13:00):
And I had the top guy, potentially the top guy in the UK telling me something that wasn't entirely true.
I mean, he was correct that he would have saved my life if he'd removed my bowel, but he didn't look at the alternative.
So I started questioning information. So everything from that point, I wanted to know why. Why is that, you know, instead of just accepting things?
(13:21):
And I started studying psychology at the same time as other things. But I realized that, you know, psychology is flawed.
A lot of the things that, for me, psychology tends to study the abnormal as opposed to looking at the normal.
So things like statistics, like, you know, three people can witness a traumatic situation and one will end up with PTSD.
(13:43):
So psychology works with that one person, whereas I was more interested in what about the two that don't get PTSD?
Why is it they view it differently? What is it they do and how can we use that? So a long answer.
Right. So a pretty turbulent, you know, teenage years into your young adult years. And what about you, Evelyn? What was your childhood like?
(14:07):
Well, I did have a very turbulent childhood in that, you know, very well provided for, didn't do without anything, but home life was incredibly turbulent.
I was bullied at school and as a home wife wasn't wasn't very calm. And by the time I met Nick and the way that I met Nick, incidentally, was that I was literally, you know, I was like 20 years old.
(14:29):
Just got this 22 actually. Honestly, I was 20. Can I tell you? Because I remember everything. Right. It was the 30th of August, 1991. Right.
So you were 22 and five months. Well, maybe. Anyway, by the by. So I've got this I've got this new job and I was there, you know, with this company car and went back after a meeting to my car and my car had been stolen.
(14:57):
And I was absolutely mortified. And this is like pre I'm saying it was pre mobile phones, which it kind of was for most people. But Nick had one. I am not kidding. It was colossal. He had a briefcase to carry.
The briefcase was the battery. Imagine, remember Dom Jolley. That scene with the big phone. Hello. So he said, anyway, I thought, oh my God, what I'm going to do. My car's been stolen. I was really upset. But I thought, well, I can't cry because, you know, I've got a suit and a briefcase.
(15:28):
So I bet I'd grown up and I just went into this office and I walked into this office and sort of explained my car had been stolen. Could I please use the phone? There's this guy sat behind the desk with a dodgy perm that happened to be Nick.
And Nick was like so kind. He rang the police. He rang my dad. He drove me home. And this was a complete stranger. And but he was just so nice. He got one of his admin girls. I said, please, would you go get her a cup of sweet tea? Because I was really sort of shaken up.
(15:58):
And and that was that really that's how we met. I didn't fancy him or anything, but I just thought, what a nice guy. And Nick was flying out to Florida the following morning in the early hours, which sort of made me think, gosh, even kinder because like he knows he's got to be leaving soon.
So he made sure that I got home safely. So I did say to him, when you're back from America, I'm going to take you for lunch. And literally, that was it. The minute we went for lunch, we started talking and it was kind of whirlwind from there. We very quickly.
(16:30):
We became really good mates. And then very quickly, we just kind of it just all fitted. But when I met Nick, Laura, in answer to your question, I was quite broken in that I had very low self-esteem, really hated myself.
I had an issue with public speaking. I had phobias of spiders, heights, claustrophobia. I'd just kind of gone through an eating disorder. So I meet this guy who's like hugely positive and everything, everything, no matter what, you know, it's like, oh, it's raining.
(17:03):
But luckily, it's going to water the plants or, you know, you know, I've got to go shop. He always had something positive saying, first of all, what planet are you from? But I was quite intrigued by this sort of positivity because I had not witnessed that.
And so when I met Nick, he always says that I was his first project. And we just got on really well. But it was Nick that actually got me into psychology.
(17:38):
And when he first started telling me about his philosophies on things, you know, about planning your life and things like this, I was like, yes, but I went with it because, you know, when you first meet somebody, you want to be polite. So I thought, I'll go with it. And everything he said was spot on.
I've never, ever set goals before in my life. And suddenly these things seem to be manifesting these amazing things. And it was all thanks to Nick, really.
(18:01):
Wow. Very inspiring. Very inspiring. And look, you mentioned Florida there, that you were flying off to Florida the next day. Florida has played quite a big part in your relationship. What was taking you to Florida then?
Do you know what? It was really interesting because my first job was in engineering, fully enough, and I was a development engineer for this company. And when I went to Florida, I went for an engineering course, as it happens. But when I was out there, I just loved the weather.
(18:33):
I just thought, you know, I should be in a warm climate. I just love the weather. And I thought, I'm going to look for jobs over there. And I couldn't find anything in engineering. But I thought, right, OK. So I went and I studied and got my Florida real estate license.
And then that sort of went on to getting a degree in real estate and then a master's in real estate. And then I ended up getting a PhD in business administration in Florida.
(19:04):
But all the time at the back of that law, I was studying psychology and we tend to listen to authority figures. And it always stuck with me that if I had listened to that gastroenterologist, I would have had a stoma.
And I've heard, I've spoken to so many people about them that, you know, you can live with them. It's OK. But there's a lot of difficulties. And I thought that would have made such a difference to my life if I would have listened.
(19:31):
But the big thing that came out of this for me is that we readily accept information off authority figures and we don't challenge it.
One thing I'd like to share with everyone is that whatever anyone tells you, it's an opinion, right. It's an opinion based on their interpretation of what they've learned.
Right. And it doesn't make it right or wrong. Right. And that was something it always always stood with me and everything. And just one thing, right, which was a really big thing that brought this home for me.
(20:00):
When we bought our home, which is really interesting that our our first day we had in this in this fabulous hall.
So it's a restaurant hotel and we have our first day there in the UK or America.
And we sat there and we were saying, wouldn't it be great to live in something like this? Because it's very old building, didn't know that much about it.
(20:22):
And this is back in 1991 and then in 2000 it came up for sale and I was like, let's go have a look at it.
And he said, oh, you know, could have been there a few times since. But anyway, long story short, ended up buying it. And that's where we live now.
And that's where we live now. So we live in the building that we had our first day.
Yeah. And it's a super cool building. It's 800 years old. And I think one of the coolest facts about it is that in the 1400s, the owners employed a scholar to look after to tutor the kids.
(20:53):
And that scholar was a man called William Tyndale. And William Tyndale translated the Bible into English in our house.
So the Bible that we read today is thanks to William Tyndale translating the Bible from Hebrew into English in our home, which is like, oh, which is like so super cool.
We now interrupt your flight for a word from our advertisers.
(21:14):
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(21:45):
We're talking of property. You're very passionate about property, aren't you? Which is great. I'm loving that. You nearly bought Moby's house, didn't you? In LA.
Well, actually, it wasn't his house at the time, though. It was Doris Day's house.
You nearly bought Doris Day's house.
Right.
Right. So what happened? We we went out to LA. We got asked to do a TV show and we did this this pilot for the TV show with with Fox.
(22:15):
And it was I mean, it was a massive show. I wouldn't believe the budget was like an initial. Initially, it was a million dollars.
I mean, they sent a private plane for us. I mean, that's what we're talking about.
Oh, now we're talking private jets.
Yes, it was. It was amazing. It was so you know, we had a car.
But then there was like what we're driving. We'll drive to the site and we're like, no, no, no. We'll send a limo for you.
(22:39):
And we had a lint lady that just kept running around and just linting us. And it was just very surreal anyway.
And do you know what? Lint. She was a lint lady with a roller and just rolling us.
Between sets. Yeah. And you know, no matter what you said, suddenly it appeared.
You know, I said to Nick, well, on the way home, I need to get some floss. And then this big bag of floss appeared.
I think, you know, dental floss. However, so we were out there. We'd got asked to do this to film this pilot.
(23:02):
Was this before your TV career had launched in the beginning?
No, it was 2000, I think it was 2000, late 2010, early 2011. So it was a while ago.
And we were actually doing a TV show before that.
And we did two series and it did really well. But the production company who made it went bankrupt.
(23:26):
And they owned the rights to the show and we couldn't carry on doing the show.
And also we couldn't carry on doing anything of that ilk for two years, which is why we were like, OK, well, let's go and do something in America.
So we're doing this pilot for Fox and the show is going to be called Panic Attack.
And it's people with extreme phobias. And at the end of the show, they've got to do something that someone without that phobia would never want to do.
(23:54):
So, yeah, for example, we had five people with a fear of heights that was very severe, even down to not be able to one of the ladies wasn't able to wear heels.
Monica had to move on to a ground floor property.
However, at the end of the series, we had to get them zip lining from one skyscraper to another in downtown L.A.
So, I mean, we just loved L.A. and we started looking at property out there.
(24:16):
And then we came across this most magnificent and beautiful property, didn't we?
Yeah, it's a fabulous property. And it's near it's on the edge of a reservoir near Hollywood, near the whole overlooking the Hollywood sign.
It's called Wolf's Lair. And it was owned by Doris Doris Day.
And we look around and we were like, oh, this is amazing.
(24:37):
And the market over there was quite depressed at the time.
It seemed really good value for what it was. And we were like, right, OK, if this show goes where we want it to go, we're going to buy that property.
And we're going to move there because we're going to need to because, you know, this is going to be a big thing.
And actually, the production company that we were working with were the ones who who set Gordon Ramsay onto his career in America.
(25:04):
So it was, you know, it was like this is going to happen. This is going to work.
And, you know, we had the reality guru of the world, a guy called Mike Dynale, who created American Idol.
And he was like, this is going to be the next best show. And then we did the show and it was amazing.
And then he left and it was just like he left Fox and someone else came in and it was like, yeah, we're not looking for that type show.
(25:29):
And it didn't happen. So we never bought that property.
And then and then at the time we were looking at it, so was Moby looking at it and he ended up buying it.
Yeah. And and then I don't know, five years or 10 years later, he sold it and made a massive profit on it.
But anyway, yeah, one of those things. And what a story.
(25:51):
But you still love L.A. I love it. You still. And you got married there. We got married in Florida, actually.
We got married in Florida. We were together for like five years. Nick asked me to marry him.
And I wanted because I'm Polish, I wanted a traditional Polish wedding, which meant a big white wedding.
And the tradition of the Polish wedding is that hundreds of people, loads of people, bride's father put so much money behind the bar.
(26:13):
And the wedding continues until all the you know, it's all gone.
And that's what I wanted. Whereas Nick was like, I want to get married in Florida.
And his best friend happened to live in Florida, who he wanted to be best man. And he couldn't travel.
So we ended up going, you know what, let's just do both.
So we actually got married on Sanibel Island in Florida, which was just beautiful.
(26:35):
Our friend Frank, who wasn't able to travel due to sadly having been shot.
And therefore he he was paralyzed from sort of chest down.
And he was able to be our best man, which was which was wonderful.
And then we went on a honeymoon to St. Lucia, which was just fabulous.
And then from St. Lucia, we came home again and then we did the whole Polish wedding.
(27:00):
We had three hundred and eighty people there.
A wedding you don't in a Polish wedding, you don't do kind of a daytime and an evening.
It's everybody kind of just turns up, rocks up together.
So we had three hundred and eighty people and the wedding went on for three days.
We bailed after day two. Wow. Why did you honeymoon in St. Lucia?
It was just somewhere I'd said, was always somewhere that I'd wanted to go, wanted to visit.
(27:25):
And and because to be honest with you, because when we did, it was like a package thing,
this wedding that we did and they arranged the whole thing for us and St. Lucia was somewhere I'd always wanted to go.
And we went and it was just stunning. I loved it. Absolutely beautiful.
Our favorite place. My friend was our best man at the wedding.
It was originally from Hawaii and we've been to Hawaii a few times and absolutely love it.
(27:50):
I've never been to Hawaii. You know what?
Hawaii is beautiful because the climate is fantastic and the people are just amazing.
Obviously it belongs to America, so you've still got that kind of vibe of the sort of modern restaurants, et cetera, and that kind of vibe.
But it is just stunning, like crystal clear waters.
I just think if we were going to retire, that would be the place we would go.
(28:14):
Oh, it's on my list. I want to talk about your children because you've got two, haven't you?
Liv and Hunter. And Hunter is actually in Massachusetts.
He is. Yeah. So our son Hunter, he decided he's always been really into biology and the human body and science.
And he's currently studying medicine. So he wants to be a doctor.
(28:38):
And he's in Massachusetts. So he's living in America right now.
But interestingly, he is majoring in medicine, but he's also minoring because, and another subject, which is psychology.
So who knows where. And I've got to say that he actually came home for summer and he was like, yeah, I'm really loving psychology, Mom.
And I said, look, whatever feels right to you.
(29:00):
You know, I was hoping that he was going to go down maybe the plastic surgery route so that in 20 years, if I needed a little bit of a judge,
I'd bugger off. But yeah, so whatever, whatever. But he's loving psychology. He did his minor in psychology and he really loves it.
Just talking about the time in America. I mean, have you helped quite a lot of celebrities over there?
(29:21):
We have. Yeah. Do you know what? And if it wasn't for pesky NDAs, we could tell you some really good stories.
But we have. We have worked with some really sort of very high profile people.
You can't tell me who they are, but can you reveal any of the maybe weird fears that they might have?
Well, I can tell you something that was very interesting to find. So we did go.
(29:44):
I'm panicking now because I'm thinking what's he going to say?
Yeah, I'm panicking. Yeah, I could have come up with all sorts of things here. But we did go to actually work with someone in Malibu.
And we noticed whilst we were, we spent quite a bit of time with them and they had this incredible bookcase and in this bookcase,
and they had all these books, but some of them and just like natural curiosity, but some of them were the spine in and I'm like,
(30:09):
they just don't look right. You know, they need to put them right.
But when pulled them out, there was a reason why there was spine in. But I can't even tell you who's and they were like, we're renting this house.
It's not our house, but I can't even. I wish I could tell you it was.
But you might as well say what you found behind the spine. Yeah, you've got to tell me what was behind the spine.
Yeah, it was pornographic stuff. Yeah, porn magazines. So yeah, so I was like, look, I'm like, this is going to be too short.
(30:33):
Before we get caught. So I was like, we're not snooping and we'd never snoop, but it was just like, then they put him right.
That's all it was. But yeah, there was a reason why they were that way around. But yeah, but yeah, in regards to anything we can share, can we?
It's really not that it's like that we could share. But I can share with you is talking.
(30:55):
Obviously, you know, let's try and get back to to travel. Try and get back to travel.
We did actually get a phone call to and was asked to work with Ashley Roberts because Ashley Roberts was presenting a show out there called First Look on NBC.
And a big part of that show was traveling. And so she was got to travel to different places, you know, in America and around the world, actually.
(31:22):
And a lot of those places had fishing villages and she had a massive phobia of fish.
And to the point that she was like, I just can't I can't go there. I can't go there.
And there were some places that they wanted to cover on the show. And she said, I'm not able to go. So they called us in and we we work with her.
Yeah. One of the people who work with her, I can't tell you what it is, but you just said that just sprung to mind.
(31:43):
You said, like, what kind of things? I think one of the most strangest things we got asked to help somebody with was they had a phobia of wet hair, but not wet hair on the head.
Wet hair in, you know, like in the plug hole and in showers and things like that.
So if they when they first went to a new hotel or they're renting a property whilst filming out in L.A., they would have to get somebody to go in and make sure that there was no stray wet hairs in the shower.
(32:14):
That was unusual. That's something we've only come across a couple of times, two or three times in our career.
Talking about strange things, did you film near the L.A. River?
Oh, dear. That was definitely a highlight. That was so much fun. So we were we were working on a feature.
I think it was the Spetans Go State side for this morning.
And because we were working one of the Pussycat Dolls with Carmete.
(32:40):
So you worked with a few of the Pussycats? Yeah, yeah, actually, that's true.
We went to we went down to the L.A. River to film like a music feature. First time I've done anything like that. And it was so much fun.
It was really cool. I must admit I have seen it and it's brilliant. It's bloody brilliant.
Well, you were. You were very bad.
(33:01):
It was. It was so much fun.
And it's like something we've never done before, but absolutely loved it. It was great.
You mentioned going back to where we were first chatting that you were Nick's first project.
Yes. With the things that you've kind of have struggled with in the past.
You've been quite open, I think, talking about perimenopause and menopause.
(33:27):
As a woman who is 42, I guess I'm going to be coming into perimenopause if I'm not already.
I don't know much really about it. What advice would you give?
I didn't know much about it either.
And when I the only reason that I found out that I was in perimenopause, Laura, is because my hair was falling out.
And, you know, and my concept of menopause was always hot flushes and your period stop.
(33:54):
That's what I thought. But I had neither of those things.
And it was because of hair loss and like really severe joint pain.
And I kept going back to the doctor. Oh, there's nothing wrong with you. But I was really persistent.
So my advice to anybody would be be persistent.
And the second thing that my bit of advice would be would be to go to a menopause charity.org and look on their website.
(34:17):
They have a symptom checker on there and look for the symptoms because you'd be quite shocked at the symptoms of perimenopause.
So for me, it was weight gain, hair loss, sort of my mood changed. I felt very low.
And, like I said, my periods, hot flushes, none of that at that time.
(34:39):
So, yeah, and when I'd never felt quite as low ever in my life, I don't think, than at that point.
And the worst part of it was, was that I felt like a real fraud because here's me, sort of this therapist telling people, you know, to be positive, to be happy.
And yet inside, I felt that I was just falling apart.
(35:01):
You know, I couldn't, my concentration was horrific. I struggled with remembering people's names.
I thought I genuinely, there was one point where I thought, you know, I've got some sort of form of Alzheimer's here that's happening early onset because of my memory.
And so eventually I did find out that I was in perimenopause and that was a blessing.
(35:23):
And then once I found that out and I started, I did go on HRT. I know it's not for everybody, but it was amazing for me.
And literally, I just got my life back. And that was a few years ago.
And did you sort of, you've obviously like bounced off of Nick in that time as you did when you first met?
Yes, I did. The only difference this time, it was a bit different in that.
(35:47):
So when I first met Nick and I bounced off him, I wanted to hear what he had to say.
Whereas this time I kind of didn't. It was like an apathy. I don't really care about anything, not even myself.
And it was, it was just like my head had been invaded and I didn't have any control over my emotions.
(36:09):
And then I got through that. But one thing I didn't expect, which is something that just happened quite recently.
So I have been championing, like, you know, oh, I've got through it. It's amazing. You can get through it too.
And then sort of earlier this year, sorry, I just had this influx again of symptoms, weight gain.
(36:36):
You know, again, the memory thing, really grumpy, joint pain, I can't sleep.
And I'm like, what the hell's going on? You know, I can't, I'm taking hormones. This, it can't, what can this be?
And again, you do sort of, because you are already on HRT, there is this kind of, you're already on HRT, so we're doing everything.
(37:00):
But I was kind of like, no, this, there's something not quite right here again.
And what I hadn't appreciated is that when you're going through perimenopause, you are still producing some hormones, but it's in peaks and troughs.
So, you know, what I hadn't realised was that when you actually do get through it then, the production of those hormones is just like fully stopped.
(37:26):
And so, and I've not evaluated since then. And literally just within the last few days, I've spoken to a consultant about it and just said, you know, I really need your help because this is not right.
And they sort of said, look, this is pretty common. But nobody told me that it was pretty common. So I didn't expect this.
I was like flying high and then suddenly felt like I fell on the ground with a thump.
(37:50):
And again, you sort of feel like a bit of a fraud because you've been sort of going on about, you know, rah, rah, rah, you can get through perimenopause.
And then I hit the ground again. And, but yeah, I'm now starting to pick myself back up again.
And I am starting to feel even knowing that this is actually a fairly normal thing.
And now we're evaluating both my hormones and the administration of those.
(38:16):
Because again, I didn't realise, you know, there's tablets, there's gels, there's sprays, there's patches. So I'm having a shift to that.
So, yeah, I'm on the right track again.
It sounds like it's a turbulent time for you. Would you say this is sort of the most turbulent time in your life so far?
I mean, I think, I think is it the most turbulent? I mean, in my adult life, I would say right now, yes, because, you know,
(38:42):
you sort of feel that you've that you're doing so well and literally life was great.
And then suddenly I feel like I've just taken this nosedive and because of because of menopause.
And I mean, I had to apologise to Nick last week only because I just said, look, I know that I am being really, really difficult, you know,
(39:06):
because I'm very zen. But I was picking at literally everything and anything.
And I've got to say, he is pretty amazing because he is so patient, so tolerant.
He just whatever I was moaning about, he just let it bounce off him and didn't pick up on it.
And but I did apologise to him.
(39:28):
And I think it was vocalising that apology and facing the fact that this what's happening right now is not acceptable.
And Nick was getting a bit frustrated with me from the perspective.
And it goes back to what you were saying earlier that I'd start I was taking advice off somebody about that helped me with my perimenopause.
But they they weren't telling me that this was normal, what I was going through and evaluating again.
(39:53):
So I was kind of staying on that path.
And it was only like a week ago that Nick that I was like, this is unacceptable.
And I actually walked away and found another avenue of help from, you know, again, menopause expert.
But they had different advice. And I think that's something that we often forget that, you know, it's OK when it's when it's us.
(40:16):
It's only one person that's going to be with you seven days a week, 24 hours a day all your life. And that is you.
And you do owe it to yourself to to find an answer, even if that means going to different places.
So I had to change my my consultant and the people that I've been asking help from.
(40:37):
And that was a really good thing to do. It was fresh eyes on this problem.
So right now, turbulence wise, yes, this has been a really tough time recently.
In childhood, yeah, lots of turbulence also, you know, in home life was quite turbulent.
Great times as well, obviously. But there was quite a lot of things that, you know, we went through as kids.
(41:00):
Turbulence in the home, there was turbulence at school because I was I was quite badly bullied.
I know I I was I was that kid in the playground really quite often.
That was just on their own because because I was bullied and I didn't
I didn't like to push myself in on friendship groups because I didn't feel that they wanted me to be there.
(41:25):
So childhood was definitely quite lonely.
I was just this floating person that had no no friends, no stability within school, no stability at home.
So that that was quite a turbulent time.
You are a power couple and it's been amazing going on this little journey with you.
(41:46):
So thank you so much. I would like to end on a high.
So what bit of advice could you give to our listeners, you know, to make them feel good?
Well, obviously, you set me up with a path and it's probably going to take another hour.
But no, it's a short haul flight, not a long haul one.
(42:08):
OK, I prefer the long haul. I love flying.
But anyway, yes, I would say that, look, no matter what trouble you have in your life right now, it will get better.
But you look back at your life. We've we're all incredibly amazing.
We've been through some difficult times in our life and we've always got better.
And, you know, I don't care what anyone has said to you about you not being able to get better.
(42:31):
It is not true. You can get better.
If you're not born with something, you certainly don't have to live with it.
And if you if someone's saying you can't get better, you need to speak to someone else until you find someone who says, yes, you can.
And they will help you because that's how it works.
And I I've never met anyone who can't get better.
And, you know, and it did frustrate me a bit, really, with Eva when, you know, I was saying, right, you're amazing.
(42:53):
You got through this perimenopause and you were fantastic and everything was great again.
And now you're going to this slump. If you're not being told you can get out of that, you need to find someone else who will do that for you.
And that's what's happened. Yeah, that's true.
And that's one thing that we obviously have no control in our mood and hormones because that sort of takes things out of our hands.
But one thing that helped me both when I was a kid, when things weren't quite so smooth and I was going through the turbulence
(43:16):
and even the turbulence recently in both sort of pockets of time with menopause,
there's two things that I've found that would really help me.
And I would sternly talk to myself. But the two things that really helped me was every morning I practiced gratitude and what things I'm grateful for.
And, you know, and that always does help. As does the second thing is having positive affirmations.
(43:41):
So, you know, only good things happen to me. There is always a solution.
And actually believe in there's only a solution because despite the fact that I was in a dip with my menopause,
I knew that I've got out of it once. I'm going to get out of it again.
And, you know, if it's possible in the world, then it's possible for me too.
And so that is that that is the thing that has helped me through most of my most recent turbulence.
(44:05):
Well, Nick and Eva Speakman, you might not be members of the Mile High Club yet,
but you are now officially members of the Mile Fly Club. Thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you so much.
And thanks to all the listeners out there. We love having you all as members of the Mile Fly Club.
So stay tuned for more fantastic episodes coming soon.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
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