February 21, 2025 • 40 mins
Healing Your Relationship with Food and Fitness: A Conversation with Jess
In this episode of MilesFromHerView, Kat, an experienced fitness trainer and ultra-marathon runner, hosts Jess, a licensed mental health counselor and certified personal trainer. They delve into topics such as disordered eating, body image, and emotional eating. Jess shares her journey from struggling with food and overexercise to becoming a therapist who focuses on helping women heal their relationship with food and their bodies. They discuss the toxic messaging in the fitness industry, the importance of self-compassion, and adopting a non-diet, health-at-every-size approach. Key highlights include the need for skill-building in intuitive eating, maintaining curiosity without judgment, and understanding that proper health is more than just weight loss.
Connect with Jess:
Website: https://revolutionhc.com
IG: https://www.instagram.com/jessbjamison/
D&D Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/dumbbellsanddonuts/
00:00 Introduction and Content Warning
00:42 Welcome to MilesFromHerView
01:33 Meet Jess: Licensed Mental Health Counselor and Personal Trainer
03:17 Jess's Journey with Disordered Eating and Body Image
06:40 The Toxicity of Diet Culture
13:46 Recognizing Disordered Eating Patterns
19:46 Parental Influence on Kids' Relationship with Food
20:41 Understanding Health at Every Size
22:12 Clarifying the Non-Diet Approach
27:22 Building Intuitive Eating Skills
29:30 Embracing Curiosity Over Judgment
30:18 Finding Joy in Movement
35:02 Agency Over Control in Health
37:13 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-20 (00:00):
Before we dive into today's episode, I
want to provide a quick reminderthat the content discussed is
intended for informationalpurposes only.
The topics we'll be coveringinclude disordered eating, body
image, and emotional eating, arenot meant to treat, diagnose, or
replace professional medicaladvice.
If you are struggling with anyof these issues, we encourage
(00:21):
you to seek support from alicensed therapist, counselor,
or doctor.
Or a healthcare provider.
Additionally, please be awarethat some of the topics in
today's episode may betriggering for some listeners.
If you feel that theconversation could be difficult
to engage with, we recommendtaking care of yourself and
reaching out for support withthat in mind, let's get started.
(00:42):
Welcome to MilesFromHerView thepodcast powered by KatFit
strength, where busy women likeyou find practical solutions to
fuel your fitness journey withauthenticity and resilience.
I'm Kat, your host, a mom of twoactive boys, a business owner
and an ultra marathon runner anda strength trainer in her
forties with nearly two decadesof experience.
(01:03):
I'm here to help you cut throughthe noise of fads, hacks, and
quick fixes.
This is a space where wecelebrate womanhood and
motherhood.
All while building strength andresilience and reconnecting with
you from a place of selfcompassion and worthiness.
Whether you're lacing up yourrunning shoes to go out for a
run, driving your kids topractice, or squeezing in a
(01:24):
moment for yourself, I'm righthere in the trenches with you.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to MilesFromHerView.
I'm here with Jess and Jess is alicensed mental health counselor
and a certified personal traineroffering both services inside
her business revolution healthover nine years of experience.
She supports chronic dietersfinding peace with food,
(01:48):
fitness, and their bodies.
Her specialties in therapyinclude binge eating, emotional
eating, and body image.
For personal training.
She specializes in helping thosewith mental health challenges,
feel strong and confidentphysically through strength
training and intuitive andintuitive movement.
She practices from a non dietweight inclusive and health at
(02:09):
every size approach.
As someone who recovered fromdisordered eating and over
exercise in a hair.
hater her body for years.
twister there.
She gets it.
Today.
She loves lifting weights almostas much as she loves eating
donuts.
And I love eating donuts too.
So welcome, welcome.
(02:30):
So excited to have you here anddive into these topics.
So
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (02:35):
Thank you for having me, Kat.
kat--she-her-_1_01- (02:37):
Absolutely.
First, what is your favoritedonut?
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (02:41):
Oh, it's gotta be chocolate.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (02:43):
Nice.
I love
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (02:44):
Yeah, the, like, chocolate gate glaze
with the chocolate frosting.
I'm all about that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (02:50):
I love it.
I love it.
Yeah.
I love, I'm all about thechocolate, but I'm also there's
something about like a Bostoncream donut for me.
It's like the cream, the goodchocolate on top.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-20 (03:00):
that one's delicious too.
I, I am, I, I will never turndown a Boston cream.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (03:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (03:09):
I really love this conversation.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (03:12):
It's all about doughnuts today.
We're just talking aboutdoughnuts, but awesome.
But how did you get to where youare?
Cause I love finding people,hearing people's stories to
where they got to, where theyare and how,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (03:25):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (03:26):
ties into how they develop their
business.
let's dive in there.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (03:30):
Yeah.
And I'll, I'll try to keep it aslike concise as possible.
And so we're not spending awhole hour on it, but I probably
could.
So I got here because Istruggled for most of my life
with food and over exercise andmy body image.
And I think looking back on itat the time.
(03:52):
I didn't even realize it.
Like, I think that's how much ofa, like a hold that diet culture
can have on us is that I thoughtthat everything I was doing in
the obsession with skinninessthat I had was normal.
And you know, I, I, my strugglesgo like way back.
(04:13):
I think they probably started inlike the eighth grade.
I struggled probably at like, itwas probably my worst in high
school.
And then when I got to college,like it just looked different,
right?
But like, the negative thoughtsabout my body were still, still
on my mind all the time.
(04:33):
But you looked at me and youwere like, everyone commented on
how healthy I was.
Right.
He looked at me physically.
Like I had the body that societydeems as like perfect for a
woman.
Right.
I was thin, I was toned.
Everyone thought that I atehealthy chicken and salad all
(04:54):
the time.
But my mental health was a hotmess.
I.
Had injuries like crazy.
Like I think like I tore ahamstring, I broke my arm.
Like I broke several othersmaller bones.
Like I had just burnt myselflike into the ground.
Like and it, things reallyshifted for me when I decided
(05:16):
that I wanted to have a familyand I couldn't get pregnant.
And I would say that's when Ireally started healing and
taking a hard look at what I wasdoing that I thought was
healthy, but.
Really wasn't.
I was, you know, there was, itwas undiagnosed infertility.
That's how they labeled me.
So there was nothing that theycould find that was wrong with
me.
(05:36):
But looking back, like I reallywasn't, I wasn't healthy and my
body couldn't carry a baby.
And I think it was just tryingto tell me that.
So then I have two kids now.
I spent years working as apersonal trainer in the weight
loss industry.
Really.
Then realizing that I washelping women with this, like do
(06:01):
the same things to themselves totry to lose weight.
That hurt me so badly.
And once I, I realized like thatthat was when I transitioned
into the health at every sizeanti diet space,
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (06:17):
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (06:18):
And started my therapy practice or
where I am now.
And I still do offer personaltraining, but in a much
different way because I'vecompletely left the weight loss
industry.
And really now focus on helpingwomen heal and find peace.
Because I know what it's liketo, to now be on the other side.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (06:38):
Yeah.
This is so important.
One of the things that appealedto me to have you on is your
philosophy of like, you're apersonal trainer.
You're also a therapist.
Anyone has known me and followedmy business I'm anti diet.
I'm going to bash on the fitnessindustry cause I do it all the
time.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (06:55):
Oh, same.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (06:57):
so it's, there's so the messaging
there is so toxic.
And I always say I was the onlyjob I was fired from in my life
is this current profession I'min now is personal training.
Because I refuse to go alongwith this messaging that was
truly hurtful for twoindividuals, predominantly
females in the essence of shrinkyour body at all costs, which
(07:20):
Was not healthy, but deemed inthis pretty little package as
being healthy.
And to your point, and what yousaid earlier was in your, with
your story of people saw you andyou were commenting on how
healthy you looked, but you werenot healthy.
And I think, you know, that issomething that is so important
(07:41):
that someone can look butthey're not healthy.
And that's.
We, we put thinness and youknow, at such a high on a
pedestal as the epitome ofhealth and fitness.
And that is not the case at all.
Yeah, it's, yeah.
(08:02):
And I love, I mean, there's somuch, I see it too, where
individuals that, you know, weboth work with women, that
they've had a disordered.
eating cycle their whole lifewhich is, And I'd love to hear
your thoughts on that,especially from like a therapist
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (08:22):
yeah.
Yeah, sure.
You, you can't take thetherapist out of the trainer.
You can't take the trainer outof the therapist.
So it's, I'm a whole, I'm awhole package deal.
Yeah, so it's, it's sonormalized.
And with me, like, so again, mystruggles, my struggles started
like in high school, but like, Iwent, I went to an all girls
high school.
Right.
So that was part of it was like,I was around girls who were
(08:44):
throwing out their lunch everyday, so I did too, right?
I was around girls who wouldjust go to Starbucks on free
period and get a coffee andthat's all that we had for the
entire day.
It was like this challenge thatlike everyone's in it together.
And if you didn't do it, youdidn't fit in.
So I spent most of those yearstrying to fit in.
(09:09):
That's really what it was.
Like I, I wasn't like,everyone's like, well, you know,
were you hiding it?
Like, no, I just thought it wasnormal.
And then same thing in college,like.
I would wake up, I'd go swimmingwith my roommate at like six
o'clock in the morning and thenI'd go back to the gym in
between classes and then atnight I would go rock climbing
(09:29):
or I had club tennis practiceand everyone would be like, Oh
my gosh, you're back at the gymagain.
Good for you.
Like, Oh, I saw you hereyesterday.
You're back.
Good for you.
When I broke my arm, I wasliterally on an elliptical with
my arm in a sling.
And everyone's like, good foryou.
Like, I could, you know, like, Icouldn't do that.
Right.
It was all like praise.
(09:51):
Not only was it seen as normal,but it was praised.
And I don't think that, I thinkthat's why we don't recognize
how deeply we're struggling.
It's because, you know, we arejust surrounded by diet culture
all the time.
And this, this emphasis on, onweight loss all the time, and
(10:13):
that if you just, if you losethe weight, you'll be happy,
right?
Your whole life is going to getbetter if you can just, Control
your food and find discipline toexercise, be disciplined to
exercise.
We're not, we're not factoringour, our mental health.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-20 (10:29):
Right.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (10:30):
Oh, cause that's something that you
can't look at someone and see.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28- (10:35):
Exactly.
And to your point too I hear alot is putting their happiness
their future, like a number on
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-20 (10:43):
Hmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (10:44):
a
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (10:45):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (10:45):
and I hear that a lot with my
clients.
And one of the things I askedthem, know, is, well, what if
you do all the things andnothing changes?
Because that can be a realitytoo.
And like, it's not that,strength training is bad and it
was unproductive.
If you don't see these changes,no, there's a lot of factors
that go into play.
I cringe and maybe you sharethis too.
(11:06):
I cringe certain times of theyear because these, these
programs are sold to well in, 30days or like six weeks, you will
have this transformation andit's put on and it's steeped in
this diet culture of losingweight and all your problems
will go away if you follow thisprogram.
And oftentimes they are these, Icall them white knuckling.
(11:29):
It's, you know, eat this, don'teat that.
There's vilified food.
There's like intense routinesand it exacerbates the issue.
at hand of really finding, sitdown to any food.
We'll, we'll use donuts, like
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (11:48):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (11:49):
sit down to a donut and enjoy a
donut.
Like there's nothing wrong withhaving donuts.
There's nothing wrong with notseeing a vegetable.
And one thing I do, especiallywith my clients who are newly in
that postpartum stage or goingthrough a very intense, like
life is at a level 10.
I'm like, if you don't see avegetable on your plate this
(12:09):
whole week, because you're justsurviving, okay.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (12:14):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, I think I, I agree somuch.
And I think that the biggestthing that keeps people stuck is
that all or nothing thinking andthis belief that we have to
follow all of these externalrules.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (12:29):
yes,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (12:30):
you know, I tell my clients all the
time, like we got to get rid ofthat.
Should that word should is onlygoing to get you into trouble.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (12:37):
it so is.
I would say I'm like, I saidthis to my kid and I said, it's
so fast.
My, my older son is 13 and I waslike, would you stop shooting
yourself?
He's like, mom, why'd you swearat me?
I said, had to stop and think,I'm like, did I swear?
I was like, like, he's like,only the like S word.
I was like.
(12:58):
I'm like, that's what I said.
And I said, well, it's prettymuch like a barb word.
Stop shooting yourself.
I'm like, it's
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (13:02):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (13:03):
like literally like.
You know, the, the, the swearword, like, yes, like it, that
keeps on the guilt and the shameand
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (13:12):
Mm
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (13:14):
You shouldn't, you know, there's no
should or anything.
It's just I hate to be like itis what it is But know it like
you said it keeps you in thatperfection seeking model and
something that is to theheavens, especially in the
fitness gonna say in thenutrition, like in that whole
(13:35):
wellness is if you're not doingit all, then, you're gonna fail.
That is we know it.
That is not the case.
That is so not the case.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (13:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (13:46):
I would love to hear a little bit
more insight and, you know,definitely I'm a big proponent
of you know, if you want to useyourself as an example, I always
tend to use myself because Idon't always like to use client
examples, how could someonetell, like if they're caught in
that, dieting cycle that youknow, maybe they're like, I
don't know, do I, and again, andI said it before, before the
(14:10):
intro is this is not here.
We're not here to diagnose.
We're here to be informative andunderstand, you know, to provide
insight.
But like if someone is like, Idon't know, could I have
disordered eating?
This sounds like, you know,sharing your story sounds
similar to me.
This is something I'vestruggled.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (14:28):
Yeah.
So I always tell clients, Idon't necessarily care what
you're eating and what you'redoing for exercise.
I care how you're thinking aboutit.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (14:42):
love that.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (14:43):
So.
If, if you're questioning,right, if what you're going
through is normal and if whatyou're experiencing is, is
disordered or something like,Oh, thank you.
Like, I think you're going to beable to tell like deep down in
your gut, right?
I think you're going to knowthat, but I want you to pay
attention to like your thoughtsabout food and exercise.
(15:06):
And if they're coming from aplace of love and self care,
That's very different than themcoming from a place of shame and
judgment.
I think that's the key, right?
So are you making food choicesbecause you think you should,
right?
Is this coming from someexternal place that someone told
(15:29):
you, this is how you should eatthis way.
Again, are there feelings of ifI don't eat that, or I do eat
that, I feel really bad aboutmyself.
I feel guilty.
Same thing with the, on thefitness side.
If I, you know, if I, Don't dothis workout.
How does that make you feelabout yourself?
Right?
Are we feeling that we're lazy,that we're, that we're, we're
(15:51):
worthless, that we're nevergonna be able to do this, right?
If that's, if that's how you'rethinking about it, then that
signals to me that you're reallystruggling.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (16:04):
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (16:06):
I think I answered your question.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (16:08):
it does.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (16:10):
Okay.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (16:11):
like, and that's a different, because
again, the industry, it's howit's like, know your macros.
Know your calories have to be ina calorie deficit where it
doesn't, I'm gonna say considerthe person and you have to like,
there's so much that goes behindit because we are
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (16:28):
Oh
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (16:29):
We are not, I loathe the statement,
you know, calories in, caloriesout, we
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (16:34):
my gosh.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (16:35):
we are not calculators, like,
there's so many more factorsthan that, and also like, and I
a lot to my clients about, theholiday times, getting through
the holidays, we eat To bond.
We have an emotional responsewith eating.
We, social beings and aroundholidays and my family, we're
very big on a lot of traditionalfoods.
(16:57):
And, like eat the food, spendthe time with the person because
the reality too, is whoevermade.
Such and so dish may not be herethe next holiday and not eat and
fear for that, but like sitthere and enjoy one meal is not
going to break your entirefitness goal or nutrition goal.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (17:20):
Yeah.
We, we don't have to make all ofthis mean so much, like we don't
have to make eating one dessert.
Mean so much about ourselves andabout our worth and we don't
have to make one skipped workoutmean so much in the big right in
the big picture and I thinkThat's where the woman that I
see Really struggle with likethey're they are making those
(17:44):
things Mean so much more thanthey have to about themselves
Same
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (17:53):
And I'll also say like, to the
point, one of the things that I,when my kids started getting
older, It started triggering meon like how I talk about food
and my workouts.
It became, you know, somethingthat realized, I, I think we all
(18:14):
have a complex relationship withour bodies and with our moving
our bodies.
Then when having kids, I waslike.
Well, we should never have anyof this.
And I'm like, well, whyshouldn't we?
Like, it's teaching them to eat.
Responsibly of like all foodscan hit fit into a healthy diet.
All movement can fit into amovement and strength training
(18:35):
plan.
Like all of this can fit here.
It's when we start to likerestrict, we have to know why.
And You know, that's where itwas interesting as my older son,
he's now in eighth grade, likegoing through and hearing the
nutrition things, he's like,well, mom, fat is bad.
And I'm like, well, okay, well
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (18:56):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (18:56):
that.
did you know your brain needsfat to function?
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (19:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's, it's, it's sointeresting because my kids are
really little.
So I have a two year old.
Oh no, she's three.
Oh my God.
She's three.
She turned three this month.
And a five year old and kids aresuch intuitive eaters, right?
To watch my kids eat.
(19:22):
I'm, it's like, it's stillshocks me sometimes how
intuitive they are and how.
Easily that just as we getolder, it's just, it's taken
from us, right?
And it can be the little thingslike, you know, in, in part of
my story too, is I, I grew upwith a mom who was always on the
diet, right.
Always all the time.
I don't like bounced from one toanother and I would do them with
(19:45):
her again.
I thought that was normal, butyou know, it's, we as parents
can have so much influence, youknow, on our kids relationship
with food, but like you said,how we're talking to them.
So I'm super careful.
I'm super intentional What Isay, just as you are, because I
(20:07):
want to raise little intuitiveeaters as best that I can, and I
know I can control everythingbut because, you know, to, to
bring women back to that abilityto tune into their bodies.
Damn, it's really hard.
It's really hard.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (20:23):
so hard, so hard.
You're a trainer who gets it.
I know other trainers and liketherapists who get it, and you
know who also share thespecialty that you do, therapist
and trainer and it's the stuffthat we do I would say is Unsexy
because it's not flashy.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (20:40):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (20:41):
I would love to hear more of your
thoughts on like health at everysize
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (20:45):
Yeah.
I mean, I, I, in everything thatI do, you know, whether that's
eating disorder work or personaltraining, I practice from a
health at every size approach.
And I guess what that means,right?
Like, so it's based on like fiveprinciples.
So weight inclusivity, healthenhancement, respectful care.
(21:08):
Eating for wellbeing and lifeenhancing movement.
And.
All of this supports buildinghealthy habits as opposed to a
fixation on weight, right, orweight loss.
So it's a, I like to see it ashealth at every size is a focus
(21:31):
on health gain rather thanweight loss.
I think it's a simple way to,it's just like a simple way to
put it.
That does not mean.
That we are healthy at everysize,
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-20 (21:47):
right.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28- (21:48):
right?
Like, and I think that's whereyou were talking about.
It's, it's misconstrued a lot,right?
Cause it's, it's not, that's notwhat health at every size means.
It does not mean that you are ina healthy body at any size.
It just means that you can behealthy at any size.
I don't know about you, thatmade sense.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (22:10):
it, it totally makes sense.
And, and that's where things getso nuanced and then
misconstrued, and I feel it'sthe same with like the, like the
non diet approach because like,Diet.
What the non diet approach is,is looking at, understanding and
decoding you, what do you liketo eat?
(22:32):
What do you not like to eat?
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (22:33):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I love how we're talkingabout what these things actually
mean because you're right likethat That even that term like
non diet has become like sotrendy
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (22:46):
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-20 (22:46):
like I'll be on social media and I'll
see a post as someone who's likecalling themselves like a non
diet Dietitian or trainer anutritionist or coach and I'm
like that's not what that meansYou could like that what they're
saying is they take in all foodsfit all foods fit approach to
weight loss That is not what anon diet approach means Just
(23:11):
clarify that.
So like when I say I'm non diet,that means I do not focus on
weight loss as a goal.
That does not mean that I amagainst weight loss, right?
That does not mean that I thinkthat having weight loss goals is
a bad thing.
Like it just means that as wework together and we make some
(23:35):
of these changes in regards tofitness and nutrition, I don't
know what's going to happen toyour body.
I don't know what's going tohappen to your size.
And I don't, that's not wherewe're, where our focus is.
Right, where someone's taking anall foods fit approach to weight
loss, the intentional goal isweight loss.
(23:58):
Mm
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (23:59):
And I think that's a huge
distinction right there.
And I.
You know, I think there, thereis a vast majority of
individuals out there, both maleand female, who are looking to
have a body composition change,and they're led to believe the
only way to obtain that througha diet or putting a numerical
(24:22):
number on the amount of.
inches, pounds they want tolose.
And that is not always the caseto have, to find health,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-20 (24:34):
hmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (24:34):
that, you know, hate to say ambiguous
because it is very different foreach person.
You know, I was kind of talkingto my clients, I'm like, there's
kind of like a fit you want tofeel in your clothes, in your
body, a focus you want to haveand you know, overall feeling.
And it's like, That is where,you know, want to decode that we
(24:59):
want to, you know, there's goingto be that work in the beginning
when we're integrating theworkouts and getting on that,
you know, consistent.
You know, pattern andincorporating into your life.
But then we also want to look atlike, there's going to be a
maintenance period where you'renot, or it's going to feel good
(25:20):
and you feel like, cool.
I'm, know, I'm going to useevery Friday night's pizza night
in our house.
It started,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (25:29):
Nice.
Mm hmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (25:32):
we got to Friday and we were like,
I can't think and it's firstpizza and like sometimes we
throw a veggie bar, sometimes wejust plain frozen pizza.
So, you know, it is what it is.
Like, we all look forward to it.
But it's like, you can sit downand be like.
This is part of my meal plan.
This is something that fires meup.
This is something that like Ienjoy eating, you know, it's
(25:54):
like we get to those periods oflike, we're not always, and I
hate saying gain or loss, butwe're not like, no one should be
in a constant, like I have towork on myself all the time and
make myself better.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (26:06):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2 (26:08):
living.
It's
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (26:11):
that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (26:11):
yeah.
It's finding that peace, thatautonomy where it flows
together.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (26:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I think that the weight lossindustry makes us feel like we
are this project that we have tofix.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (26:29):
Yes.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (26:30):
And I don't think that our, our
health is, is a project, youknow, like I want to, yeah, I
want to help women get out ofthat mindset.
Like you do not need to befixed.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28- (26:43):
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's it.
I mean, I fullheartedly agreewith that.
There's, yeah, there's, you'renot broken.
need to be fixed.
To me.
I am like, you seem to be moreof you.
Like I
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (26:58):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (26:59):
tell my clients, I'm like, I want you
to take up space.
I want you to feel that power.
And so sometimes like, I'll talkabout it when I'm like queuing
them for, Squats or deadlift.
I'm like, I want you to feel theground underneath your feet,
connect with, and I want you topress up through the body, feel
that power that you can generate
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-20 (27:19):
Yes.
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (27:22):
I would love to hear, so if
someone's listening to this andthey're like, Everything that
you're saying I'm overwhelmed.
I need, I need someone to awaythis overwhelm.
I really want to get out of thislike diet cycle, this all or
nothing.
And I really just want to sitdown to insert whatever meal I
(27:44):
want to have that donut and justreally enjoy all of its
goodness.
Like where should I start islike, what would be?
I
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (27:53):
Yeah.
I know it's it's so hard andbecause I I also think that like
The, the word like intuitiveeating is all over the place,
right?
Because, right, but it is oftenused as a diet, right?
And we don't want that.
And, and I, to become a trueintuitive eater in a non diet
(28:18):
way does take a lot of work.
And we cannot go from followingall of these diets and rules.
To being an intuitive eater.
Like you just can't, you cannotjust be like, I'm just going to
stop dieting and listen to mybody.
That's not how it works.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (28:37):
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (28:38):
You will set yourself up for failure
because.
You don't have the skills yet,right?
So I think that's where Itypically start with a woman who
come to me with particularlybinge eating and emotional
eating challenges.
So we need to build those skillsfirst.
(28:58):
And I think around eating,right.
But also just around like.
intuition in general, right?
And making sure that we, we knowhow to, how to tune into
ourselves outside of food andexercise.
So we work on, you know,building those skills and that's
gonna look like noticing hungerand fullness, right, is a big
(29:23):
one.
So, Go Google, right, the hungerand fullness scale and just
start making notes, right?
Another huge thing here is youhave to approach this from a
place of curiosity,
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (29:37):
Yes,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (29:37):
not judgment, right?
How can I just get curious aboutthis?
Right?
Like I think like using phraselike I wonder is super powerful.
Like, wow.
Like I wonder why I overate thatday.
Right?
I wonder why.
I was really full, but I kepteating like, what could have
(29:57):
been going on?
What could have been going onthere for me?
Right.
Versus I can't believe I didthat.
I knew I didn't need that.
I wasn't hungry, but I ate itanyways.
Oh my goodness.
Like I have to start over againtomorrow.
Right.
Like that place of curiosityversus judgment is so powerful.
(30:18):
And then, I mean, we're personaltrainers, right?
We want people to fall in lovewith, with fitness and movement.
So I think it's going to workthe same that way too.
Like.
What do you love to do formovement?
Right?
What actually brings you joy?
Start trying new things and payattention to how do they
actually make me feel.
(30:39):
And I think to do that, likeagain, you, you gotta go into it
as a little experiment, right?
Because you're not, you're nevergoing to find what like lights
you up and makes you feelempowered.
If we don't put ourselves outthere and try new things and
kind of get ourselves out of ourcomfort zone a little bit.
(30:59):
And then I think a reallypowerful question I ask my
clients a lot is like, whatwould you do if you weren't
afraid of gaining weight?
Or just not losing it, right?
What would you do if you weren'tafraid?
How would you eat?
How would you move your body?
(31:19):
What would you wear?
And whatever those answers are,I want you to go do that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (31:28):
Yeah, I think that's so powerful and I
want to highlight a few thingsyou said there because I feel
like, like,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (31:36):
I know, that's a very long answer.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (31:37):
no, but it was so good.
I'm sitting here, I'm like, yes,yes, all these things and like,
skills, I feel Again, in thisindustry, nutrition industry
acts like it is a switch.
You just, you do this and it's a
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (31:51):
Yeah! Oh my gosh.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (31:52):
to build up the skills.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28 (31:53):
doesn't work like that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (31:55):
There are
jess---she-her-_1_01-28- (31:56):
Mmhmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (31:56):
that you need for that.
It is, you know, I liken it.
I mean, you're a mom, I'm a mom.
Like we, you, you watch yourchild.
Accumulate skills to move theirbody.
They don't just, you know, standup one day and start running.
You know,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28- (32:11):
Mmhmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (32:12):
that because that is such a busy time
and motherhood, but like, theyhave to build those skills.
It's the same thing when you'recreating this transition.
You have to incorporate theseskills.
It's not a, know, do this and X,y, z happens.
Like, that's like.
That's what diet culture is.
(32:32):
It's such a restrictive, like,puts you in a little tiny box.
There's no, you know, curiosityto your next thing is huge.
Just having that curiosity oflike, like, why did I get here?
Like, you know, and I love forme, it's one of the coolest
things when clients are like,they can articulate.
(32:54):
I realized when I was standingin the pantry, this
hypothetical, but wait.
And I was stuffing my space fullof whatever that I missed lunch
because it was so
jess---she-her-_1_01-28- (33:04):
Mmhmm.
Mmhmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (33:07):
make sure, or tonight I did this to
make sure I have food tomorrowbecause it's another busy day.
Amazing.
You set yourself up for success.
You didn't go down the shoulds,the like, guilt, the shame.
You had this.
Explore curiosity of why thesebehaviors happen, because
there's a reason and it doesn'tmean that it's bad.
(33:32):
There's just a reason.
And I think are just sopowerful.
And then the other one is huge.
I often, I ask similar questionand don't know if you find this
when you ask this to yourclients, but it stops them of
(33:52):
like, wait, no one's ever askedme that.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (33:54):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (33:55):
Life is busy and it's loud and we, I
don't know, life just startshappening to us.
Even if we're doing things,sometimes life starts happening
or like the cues, like bemindful of what you're eating or
understand the hunger scale,it's easy to tune out.
If you're so hungry or not, orwhen you get hungry and even
(34:15):
myself, I've had to be like,Ooh, we're not, I'm not
utilizing or understanding myhunger.
So like I employ that becauselife gets busy and
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (34:26):
does.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (34:26):
is one of those that these seem
basic, but these are skillsimplement to set you up for
success.
But the best thing they love isthat curiosity.
And if you had no fear we're,yeah, I just think it puts more
power.
And more autonomy to to takehold of their health and really
(34:50):
find that, that central, I'mgoing to say like control that
central North, like deepinternal as to what they really,
really want.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (34:59):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
And, and I love everything youjust said.
And I'll add, like, I think wewant to be in control, right.
Of what we eat and our healtheven so badly.
And I do encourage women to stopusing that word.
Like you, you cannot controlyour health.
(35:23):
Like what you can do is haveagency, right.
You can influence.
Your health, right?
But that idea of like, I have tocontrol what I eat or I have to
get control of my weight,that's, that's, that's only
(35:45):
going to make this so muchharder for you and
unsustainable.
And it's just not like so muchgoes into that.
It's, it's not in your control.
That is so outcome based and theoutcome isn't in our control.
So thinking about where, youknow, where can I have agency?
Is, is typically what I, how Ilike to phrase it.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (36:08):
Yeah.
I love that.
Like agency is important and itis I always say, bodies change.
That's it.
That's a statement.
It's
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (36:15):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-20 (36:16):
that's a complete sentence.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (36:18):
I love that.
I'm gonna steal that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (36:20):
Yeah.
I,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (36:22):
Yeah.
Oh
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (36:25):
I say the clients are like, and
I'm like, no, that's, that's atwo words.
it.
Bodies change.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (36:30):
Yeah.
We can, right.
builds habits that feel good forus, that we feel are healthy,
that make us feel healthy.
But how that's going to changeour weight and our body size
again, like we just don't know.
And I think having those weightloss goals that were that were
(36:50):
so hung up on It really onlyinterferes with our act, our
ability to actually heal ourrelationship with food and
fitness.
Like I honestly have yet to workwith a woman yet who has been
able to do both at the sametime.
Someone out there will prove mewrong, but yet to see that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (37:12):
yeah.
I would encourage anyonelistening reach out to Jess.
If you, I'm going to say, if youhave questions, her information
will be on the show notes.
Because there are other ways tofind, your true health for you
and for your lifestyle versusWhite knuckling, you know,
(37:33):
restriction, brutalizing yourbody.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (37:36):
yeah.
And I think that's a, that's agreat message maybe to leave
your listeners with as we wrapup.
Like it, the food noise, theshame around fitness, right.
And all of those shoulds thatyou're experiencing, like, yeah,
it, it doesn't have to be likethat.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (37:54):
Yes.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
This is awesome.
I'm sure we'll have you back.
And you know, anyone listeningto you can send questions to the
podcast or get justiceinformation.
And we will, you know, theconversation doesn't end.
So, yeah, and if you know, ifanyone could benefit from this
episode, please, you know, shareit with them.
(38:17):
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(38:38):
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You can connect with me onInstagram at KatFit strength, or
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every step of your journey untilnext time, keep moving forward
(39:00):
one mile at a time.
Before we dive into today's episode, I
want to provide a quick reminderthat the content discussed is
intended for informationalpurposes only.
The topics we'll be coveringinclude disordered eating, body
image, and emotional eating, arenot meant to treat, diagnose, or
replace professional medicaladvice.
If you are struggling with anyof these issues, we encourage
(00:21):
you to seek support from alicensed therapist, counselor,
or doctor.
Or a healthcare provider.
Additionally, please be awarethat some of the topics in
today's episode may betriggering for some listeners.
If you feel that theconversation could be difficult
to engage with, we recommendtaking care of yourself and
reaching out for support withthat in mind, let's get started.
(00:42):
Welcome to MilesFromHerView thepodcast powered by KatFit
strength, where busy women likeyou find practical solutions to
fuel your fitness journey withauthenticity and resilience.
I'm Kat, your host, a mom of twoactive boys, a business owner
and an ultra marathon runner anda strength trainer in her
forties with nearly two decadesof experience.
(01:03):
I'm here to help you cut throughthe noise of fads, hacks, and
quick fixes.
This is a space where wecelebrate womanhood and
motherhood.
All while building strength andresilience and reconnecting with
you from a place of selfcompassion and worthiness.
Whether you're lacing up yourrunning shoes to go out for a
run, driving your kids topractice, or squeezing in a
(01:24):
moment for yourself, I'm righthere in the trenches with you.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to MilesFromHerView.
I'm here with Jess and Jess is alicensed mental health counselor
and a certified personal traineroffering both services inside
her business revolution healthover nine years of experience.
She supports chronic dietersfinding peace with food,
(01:48):
fitness, and their bodies.
Her specialties in therapyinclude binge eating, emotional
eating, and body image.
For personal training.
She specializes in helping thosewith mental health challenges,
feel strong and confidentphysically through strength
training and intuitive andintuitive movement.
She practices from a non dietweight inclusive and health at
(02:09):
every size approach.
As someone who recovered fromdisordered eating and over
exercise in a hair.
hater her body for years.
twister there.
She gets it.
Today.
She loves lifting weights almostas much as she loves eating
donuts.
And I love eating donuts too.
So welcome, welcome.
(02:30):
So excited to have you here anddive into these topics.
So
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (02:35):
Thank you for having me, Kat.
kat--she-her-_1_01- (02:37):
Absolutely.
First, what is your favoritedonut?
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (02:41):
Oh, it's gotta be chocolate.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (02:43):
Nice.
I love
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (02:44):
Yeah, the, like, chocolate gate glaze
with the chocolate frosting.
I'm all about that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (02:50):
I love it.
I love it.
Yeah.
I love, I'm all about thechocolate, but I'm also there's
something about like a Bostoncream donut for me.
It's like the cream, the goodchocolate on top.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-20 (03:00):
that one's delicious too.
I, I am, I, I will never turndown a Boston cream.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (03:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (03:09):
I really love this conversation.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (03:12):
It's all about doughnuts today.
We're just talking aboutdoughnuts, but awesome.
But how did you get to where youare?
Cause I love finding people,hearing people's stories to
where they got to, where theyare and how,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (03:25):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (03:26):
ties into how they develop their
business.
let's dive in there.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (03:30):
Yeah.
And I'll, I'll try to keep it aslike concise as possible.
And so we're not spending awhole hour on it, but I probably
could.
So I got here because Istruggled for most of my life
with food and over exercise andmy body image.
And I think looking back on itat the time.
(03:52):
I didn't even realize it.
Like, I think that's how much ofa, like a hold that diet culture
can have on us is that I thoughtthat everything I was doing in
the obsession with skinninessthat I had was normal.
And you know, I, I, my strugglesgo like way back.
(04:13):
I think they probably started inlike the eighth grade.
I struggled probably at like, itwas probably my worst in high
school.
And then when I got to college,like it just looked different,
right?
But like, the negative thoughtsabout my body were still, still
on my mind all the time.
(04:33):
But you looked at me and youwere like, everyone commented on
how healthy I was.
Right.
He looked at me physically.
Like I had the body that societydeems as like perfect for a
woman.
Right.
I was thin, I was toned.
Everyone thought that I atehealthy chicken and salad all
(04:54):
the time.
But my mental health was a hotmess.
I.
Had injuries like crazy.
Like I think like I tore ahamstring, I broke my arm.
Like I broke several othersmaller bones.
Like I had just burnt myselflike into the ground.
Like and it, things reallyshifted for me when I decided
(05:16):
that I wanted to have a familyand I couldn't get pregnant.
And I would say that's when Ireally started healing and
taking a hard look at what I wasdoing that I thought was
healthy, but.
Really wasn't.
I was, you know, there was, itwas undiagnosed infertility.
That's how they labeled me.
So there was nothing that theycould find that was wrong with
me.
(05:36):
But looking back, like I reallywasn't, I wasn't healthy and my
body couldn't carry a baby.
And I think it was just tryingto tell me that.
So then I have two kids now.
I spent years working as apersonal trainer in the weight
loss industry.
Really.
Then realizing that I washelping women with this, like do
(06:01):
the same things to themselves totry to lose weight.
That hurt me so badly.
And once I, I realized like thatthat was when I transitioned
into the health at every sizeanti diet space,
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (06:17):
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (06:18):
And started my therapy practice or
where I am now.
And I still do offer personaltraining, but in a much
different way because I'vecompletely left the weight loss
industry.
And really now focus on helpingwomen heal and find peace.
Because I know what it's liketo, to now be on the other side.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (06:38):
Yeah.
This is so important.
One of the things that appealedto me to have you on is your
philosophy of like, you're apersonal trainer.
You're also a therapist.
Anyone has known me and followedmy business I'm anti diet.
I'm going to bash on the fitnessindustry cause I do it all the
time.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (06:55):
Oh, same.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (06:57):
so it's, there's so the messaging
there is so toxic.
And I always say I was the onlyjob I was fired from in my life
is this current profession I'min now is personal training.
Because I refuse to go alongwith this messaging that was
truly hurtful for twoindividuals, predominantly
females in the essence of shrinkyour body at all costs, which
(07:20):
Was not healthy, but deemed inthis pretty little package as
being healthy.
And to your point, and what yousaid earlier was in your, with
your story of people saw you andyou were commenting on how
healthy you looked, but you werenot healthy.
And I think, you know, that issomething that is so important
(07:41):
that someone can look butthey're not healthy.
And that's.
We, we put thinness and youknow, at such a high on a
pedestal as the epitome ofhealth and fitness.
And that is not the case at all.
Yeah, it's, yeah.
(08:02):
And I love, I mean, there's somuch, I see it too, where
individuals that, you know, weboth work with women, that
they've had a disordered.
eating cycle their whole lifewhich is, And I'd love to hear
your thoughts on that,especially from like a therapist
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (08:22):
yeah.
Yeah, sure.
You, you can't take thetherapist out of the trainer.
You can't take the trainer outof the therapist.
So it's, I'm a whole, I'm awhole package deal.
Yeah, so it's, it's sonormalized.
And with me, like, so again, mystruggles, my struggles started
like in high school, but like, Iwent, I went to an all girls
high school.
Right.
So that was part of it was like,I was around girls who were
(08:44):
throwing out their lunch everyday, so I did too, right?
I was around girls who wouldjust go to Starbucks on free
period and get a coffee andthat's all that we had for the
entire day.
It was like this challenge thatlike everyone's in it together.
And if you didn't do it, youdidn't fit in.
So I spent most of those yearstrying to fit in.
(09:09):
That's really what it was.
Like I, I wasn't like,everyone's like, well, you know,
were you hiding it?
Like, no, I just thought it wasnormal.
And then same thing in college,like.
I would wake up, I'd go swimmingwith my roommate at like six
o'clock in the morning and thenI'd go back to the gym in
between classes and then atnight I would go rock climbing
(09:29):
or I had club tennis practiceand everyone would be like, Oh
my gosh, you're back at the gymagain.
Good for you.
Like, Oh, I saw you hereyesterday.
You're back.
Good for you.
When I broke my arm, I wasliterally on an elliptical with
my arm in a sling.
And everyone's like, good foryou.
Like, I could, you know, like, Icouldn't do that.
Right.
It was all like praise.
(09:51):
Not only was it seen as normal,but it was praised.
And I don't think that, I thinkthat's why we don't recognize
how deeply we're struggling.
It's because, you know, we arejust surrounded by diet culture
all the time.
And this, this emphasis on, onweight loss all the time, and
(10:13):
that if you just, if you losethe weight, you'll be happy,
right?
Your whole life is going to getbetter if you can just, Control
your food and find discipline toexercise, be disciplined to
exercise.
We're not, we're not factoringour, our mental health.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-20 (10:29):
Right.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (10:30):
Oh, cause that's something that you
can't look at someone and see.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28- (10:35):
Exactly.
And to your point too I hear alot is putting their happiness
their future, like a number on
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-20 (10:43):
Hmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (10:44):
a
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (10:45):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (10:45):
and I hear that a lot with my
clients.
And one of the things I askedthem, know, is, well, what if
you do all the things andnothing changes?
Because that can be a realitytoo.
And like, it's not that,strength training is bad and it
was unproductive.
If you don't see these changes,no, there's a lot of factors
that go into play.
I cringe and maybe you sharethis too.
(11:06):
I cringe certain times of theyear because these, these
programs are sold to well in, 30days or like six weeks, you will
have this transformation andit's put on and it's steeped in
this diet culture of losingweight and all your problems
will go away if you follow thisprogram.
And oftentimes they are these, Icall them white knuckling.
(11:29):
It's, you know, eat this, don'teat that.
There's vilified food.
There's like intense routinesand it exacerbates the issue.
at hand of really finding, sitdown to any food.
We'll, we'll use donuts, like
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (11:48):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (11:49):
sit down to a donut and enjoy a
donut.
Like there's nothing wrong withhaving donuts.
There's nothing wrong with notseeing a vegetable.
And one thing I do, especiallywith my clients who are newly in
that postpartum stage or goingthrough a very intense, like
life is at a level 10.
I'm like, if you don't see avegetable on your plate this
(12:09):
whole week, because you're justsurviving, okay.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (12:14):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, I think I, I agree somuch.
And I think that the biggestthing that keeps people stuck is
that all or nothing thinking andthis belief that we have to
follow all of these externalrules.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (12:29):
yes,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (12:30):
you know, I tell my clients all the
time, like we got to get rid ofthat.
Should that word should is onlygoing to get you into trouble.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (12:37):
it so is.
I would say I'm like, I saidthis to my kid and I said, it's
so fast.
My, my older son is 13 and I waslike, would you stop shooting
yourself?
He's like, mom, why'd you swearat me?
I said, had to stop and think,I'm like, did I swear?
I was like, like, he's like,only the like S word.
I was like.
(12:58):
I'm like, that's what I said.
And I said, well, it's prettymuch like a barb word.
Stop shooting yourself.
I'm like, it's
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (13:02):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (13:03):
like literally like.
You know, the, the, the swearword, like, yes, like it, that
keeps on the guilt and the shameand
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (13:12):
Mm
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (13:14):
You shouldn't, you know, there's no
should or anything.
It's just I hate to be like itis what it is But know it like
you said it keeps you in thatperfection seeking model and
something that is to theheavens, especially in the
fitness gonna say in thenutrition, like in that whole
(13:35):
wellness is if you're not doingit all, then, you're gonna fail.
That is we know it.
That is not the case.
That is so not the case.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (13:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (13:46):
I would love to hear a little bit
more insight and, you know,definitely I'm a big proponent
of you know, if you want to useyourself as an example, I always
tend to use myself because Idon't always like to use client
examples, how could someonetell, like if they're caught in
that, dieting cycle that youknow, maybe they're like, I
don't know, do I, and again, andI said it before, before the
(14:10):
intro is this is not here.
We're not here to diagnose.
We're here to be informative andunderstand, you know, to provide
insight.
But like if someone is like, Idon't know, could I have
disordered eating?
This sounds like, you know,sharing your story sounds
similar to me.
This is something I'vestruggled.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (14:28):
Yeah.
So I always tell clients, Idon't necessarily care what
you're eating and what you'redoing for exercise.
I care how you're thinking aboutit.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (14:42):
love that.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (14:43):
So.
If, if you're questioning,right, if what you're going
through is normal and if whatyou're experiencing is, is
disordered or something like,Oh, thank you.
Like, I think you're going to beable to tell like deep down in
your gut, right?
I think you're going to knowthat, but I want you to pay
attention to like your thoughtsabout food and exercise.
(15:06):
And if they're coming from aplace of love and self care,
That's very different than themcoming from a place of shame and
judgment.
I think that's the key, right?
So are you making food choicesbecause you think you should,
right?
Is this coming from someexternal place that someone told
(15:29):
you, this is how you should eatthis way.
Again, are there feelings of ifI don't eat that, or I do eat
that, I feel really bad aboutmyself.
I feel guilty.
Same thing with the, on thefitness side.
If I, you know, if I, Don't dothis workout.
How does that make you feelabout yourself?
Right?
Are we feeling that we're lazy,that we're, that we're, we're
(15:51):
worthless, that we're nevergonna be able to do this, right?
If that's, if that's how you'rethinking about it, then that
signals to me that you're reallystruggling.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (16:04):
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (16:06):
I think I answered your question.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (16:08):
it does.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (16:10):
Okay.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (16:11):
like, and that's a different, because
again, the industry, it's howit's like, know your macros.
Know your calories have to be ina calorie deficit where it
doesn't, I'm gonna say considerthe person and you have to like,
there's so much that goes behindit because we are
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (16:28):
Oh
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (16:29):
We are not, I loathe the statement,
you know, calories in, caloriesout, we
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (16:34):
my gosh.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (16:35):
we are not calculators, like,
there's so many more factorsthan that, and also like, and I
a lot to my clients about, theholiday times, getting through
the holidays, we eat To bond.
We have an emotional responsewith eating.
We, social beings and aroundholidays and my family, we're
very big on a lot of traditionalfoods.
(16:57):
And, like eat the food, spendthe time with the person because
the reality too, is whoevermade.
Such and so dish may not be herethe next holiday and not eat and
fear for that, but like sitthere and enjoy one meal is not
going to break your entirefitness goal or nutrition goal.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (17:20):
Yeah.
We, we don't have to make all ofthis mean so much, like we don't
have to make eating one dessert.
Mean so much about ourselves andabout our worth and we don't
have to make one skipped workoutmean so much in the big right in
the big picture and I thinkThat's where the woman that I
see Really struggle with likethey're they are making those
(17:44):
things Mean so much more thanthey have to about themselves
Same
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (17:53):
And I'll also say like, to the
point, one of the things that I,when my kids started getting
older, It started triggering meon like how I talk about food
and my workouts.
It became, you know, somethingthat realized, I, I think we all
(18:14):
have a complex relationship withour bodies and with our moving
our bodies.
Then when having kids, I waslike.
Well, we should never have anyof this.
And I'm like, well, whyshouldn't we?
Like, it's teaching them to eat.
Responsibly of like all foodscan hit fit into a healthy diet.
All movement can fit into amovement and strength training
(18:35):
plan.
Like all of this can fit here.
It's when we start to likerestrict, we have to know why.
And You know, that's where itwas interesting as my older son,
he's now in eighth grade, likegoing through and hearing the
nutrition things, he's like,well, mom, fat is bad.
And I'm like, well, okay, well
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (18:56):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (18:56):
that.
did you know your brain needsfat to function?
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (19:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's, it's, it's sointeresting because my kids are
really little.
So I have a two year old.
Oh no, she's three.
Oh my God.
She's three.
She turned three this month.
And a five year old and kids aresuch intuitive eaters, right?
To watch my kids eat.
(19:22):
I'm, it's like, it's stillshocks me sometimes how
intuitive they are and how.
Easily that just as we getolder, it's just, it's taken
from us, right?
And it can be the little thingslike, you know, in, in part of
my story too, is I, I grew upwith a mom who was always on the
diet, right.
Always all the time.
I don't like bounced from one toanother and I would do them with
(19:45):
her again.
I thought that was normal, butyou know, it's, we as parents
can have so much influence, youknow, on our kids relationship
with food, but like you said,how we're talking to them.
So I'm super careful.
I'm super intentional What Isay, just as you are, because I
(20:07):
want to raise little intuitiveeaters as best that I can, and I
know I can control everythingbut because, you know, to, to
bring women back to that abilityto tune into their bodies.
Damn, it's really hard.
It's really hard.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (20:23):
so hard, so hard.
You're a trainer who gets it.
I know other trainers and liketherapists who get it, and you
know who also share thespecialty that you do, therapist
and trainer and it's the stuffthat we do I would say is Unsexy
because it's not flashy.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (20:40):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (20:41):
I would love to hear more of your
thoughts on like health at everysize
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (20:45):
Yeah.
I mean, I, I, in everything thatI do, you know, whether that's
eating disorder work or personaltraining, I practice from a
health at every size approach.
And I guess what that means,right?
Like, so it's based on like fiveprinciples.
So weight inclusivity, healthenhancement, respectful care.
(21:08):
Eating for wellbeing and lifeenhancing movement.
And.
All of this supports buildinghealthy habits as opposed to a
fixation on weight, right, orweight loss.
So it's a, I like to see it ashealth at every size is a focus
(21:31):
on health gain rather thanweight loss.
I think it's a simple way to,it's just like a simple way to
put it.
That does not mean.
That we are healthy at everysize,
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-20 (21:47):
right.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28- (21:48):
right?
Like, and I think that's whereyou were talking about.
It's, it's misconstrued a lot,right?
Cause it's, it's not, that's notwhat health at every size means.
It does not mean that you are ina healthy body at any size.
It just means that you can behealthy at any size.
I don't know about you, thatmade sense.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (22:10):
it, it totally makes sense.
And, and that's where things getso nuanced and then
misconstrued, and I feel it'sthe same with like the, like the
non diet approach because like,Diet.
What the non diet approach is,is looking at, understanding and
decoding you, what do you liketo eat?
(22:32):
What do you not like to eat?
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (22:33):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I love how we're talkingabout what these things actually
mean because you're right likethat That even that term like
non diet has become like sotrendy
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (22:46):
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-20 (22:46):
like I'll be on social media and I'll
see a post as someone who's likecalling themselves like a non
diet Dietitian or trainer anutritionist or coach and I'm
like that's not what that meansYou could like that what they're
saying is they take in all foodsfit all foods fit approach to
weight loss That is not what anon diet approach means Just
(23:11):
clarify that.
So like when I say I'm non diet,that means I do not focus on
weight loss as a goal.
That does not mean that I amagainst weight loss, right?
That does not mean that I thinkthat having weight loss goals is
a bad thing.
Like it just means that as wework together and we make some
(23:35):
of these changes in regards tofitness and nutrition, I don't
know what's going to happen toyour body.
I don't know what's going tohappen to your size.
And I don't, that's not wherewe're, where our focus is.
Right, where someone's taking anall foods fit approach to weight
loss, the intentional goal isweight loss.
(23:58):
Mm
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (23:59):
And I think that's a huge
distinction right there.
And I.
You know, I think there, thereis a vast majority of
individuals out there, both maleand female, who are looking to
have a body composition change,and they're led to believe the
only way to obtain that througha diet or putting a numerical
(24:22):
number on the amount of.
inches, pounds they want tolose.
And that is not always the caseto have, to find health,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-20 (24:34):
hmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (24:34):
that, you know, hate to say ambiguous
because it is very different foreach person.
You know, I was kind of talkingto my clients, I'm like, there's
kind of like a fit you want tofeel in your clothes, in your
body, a focus you want to haveand you know, overall feeling.
And it's like, That is where,you know, want to decode that we
(24:59):
want to, you know, there's goingto be that work in the beginning
when we're integrating theworkouts and getting on that,
you know, consistent.
You know, pattern andincorporating into your life.
But then we also want to look atlike, there's going to be a
maintenance period where you'renot, or it's going to feel good
(25:20):
and you feel like, cool.
I'm, know, I'm going to useevery Friday night's pizza night
in our house.
It started,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (25:29):
Nice.
Mm hmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (25:32):
we got to Friday and we were like,
I can't think and it's firstpizza and like sometimes we
throw a veggie bar, sometimes wejust plain frozen pizza.
So, you know, it is what it is.
Like, we all look forward to it.
But it's like, you can sit downand be like.
This is part of my meal plan.
This is something that fires meup.
This is something that like Ienjoy eating, you know, it's
(25:54):
like we get to those periods oflike, we're not always, and I
hate saying gain or loss, butwe're not like, no one should be
in a constant, like I have towork on myself all the time and
make myself better.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (26:06):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2 (26:08):
living.
It's
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (26:11):
that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (26:11):
yeah.
It's finding that peace, thatautonomy where it flows
together.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (26:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I think that the weight lossindustry makes us feel like we
are this project that we have tofix.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (26:29):
Yes.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (26:30):
And I don't think that our, our
health is, is a project, youknow, like I want to, yeah, I
want to help women get out ofthat mindset.
Like you do not need to befixed.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28- (26:43):
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's it.
I mean, I fullheartedly agreewith that.
There's, yeah, there's, you'renot broken.
need to be fixed.
To me.
I am like, you seem to be moreof you.
Like I
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (26:58):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (26:59):
tell my clients, I'm like, I want you
to take up space.
I want you to feel that power.
And so sometimes like, I'll talkabout it when I'm like queuing
them for, Squats or deadlift.
I'm like, I want you to feel theground underneath your feet,
connect with, and I want you topress up through the body, feel
that power that you can generate
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-20 (27:19):
Yes.
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (27:22):
I would love to hear, so if
someone's listening to this andthey're like, Everything that
you're saying I'm overwhelmed.
I need, I need someone to awaythis overwhelm.
I really want to get out of thislike diet cycle, this all or
nothing.
And I really just want to sitdown to insert whatever meal I
(27:44):
want to have that donut and justreally enjoy all of its
goodness.
Like where should I start islike, what would be?
I
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (27:53):
Yeah.
I know it's it's so hard andbecause I I also think that like
The, the word like intuitiveeating is all over the place,
right?
Because, right, but it is oftenused as a diet, right?
And we don't want that.
And, and I, to become a trueintuitive eater in a non diet
(28:18):
way does take a lot of work.
And we cannot go from followingall of these diets and rules.
To being an intuitive eater.
Like you just can't, you cannotjust be like, I'm just going to
stop dieting and listen to mybody.
That's not how it works.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (28:37):
Yeah.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (28:38):
You will set yourself up for failure
because.
You don't have the skills yet,right?
So I think that's where Itypically start with a woman who
come to me with particularlybinge eating and emotional
eating challenges.
So we need to build those skillsfirst.
(28:58):
And I think around eating,right.
But also just around like.
intuition in general, right?
And making sure that we, we knowhow to, how to tune into
ourselves outside of food andexercise.
So we work on, you know,building those skills and that's
gonna look like noticing hungerand fullness, right, is a big
(29:23):
one.
So, Go Google, right, the hungerand fullness scale and just
start making notes, right?
Another huge thing here is youhave to approach this from a
place of curiosity,
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (29:37):
Yes,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-202 (29:37):
not judgment, right?
How can I just get curious aboutthis?
Right?
Like I think like using phraselike I wonder is super powerful.
Like, wow.
Like I wonder why I overate thatday.
Right?
I wonder why.
I was really full, but I kepteating like, what could have
(29:57):
been going on?
What could have been going onthere for me?
Right.
Versus I can't believe I didthat.
I knew I didn't need that.
I wasn't hungry, but I ate itanyways.
Oh my goodness.
Like I have to start over againtomorrow.
Right.
Like that place of curiosityversus judgment is so powerful.
(30:18):
And then, I mean, we're personaltrainers, right?
We want people to fall in lovewith, with fitness and movement.
So I think it's going to workthe same that way too.
Like.
What do you love to do formovement?
Right?
What actually brings you joy?
Start trying new things and payattention to how do they
actually make me feel.
(30:39):
And I think to do that, likeagain, you, you gotta go into it
as a little experiment, right?
Because you're not, you're nevergoing to find what like lights
you up and makes you feelempowered.
If we don't put ourselves outthere and try new things and
kind of get ourselves out of ourcomfort zone a little bit.
(30:59):
And then I think a reallypowerful question I ask my
clients a lot is like, whatwould you do if you weren't
afraid of gaining weight?
Or just not losing it, right?
What would you do if you weren'tafraid?
How would you eat?
How would you move your body?
(31:19):
What would you wear?
And whatever those answers are,I want you to go do that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (31:28):
Yeah, I think that's so powerful and I
want to highlight a few thingsyou said there because I feel
like, like,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (31:36):
I know, that's a very long answer.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (31:37):
no, but it was so good.
I'm sitting here, I'm like, yes,yes, all these things and like,
skills, I feel Again, in thisindustry, nutrition industry
acts like it is a switch.
You just, you do this and it's a
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (31:51):
Yeah! Oh my gosh.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (31:52):
to build up the skills.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28 (31:53):
doesn't work like that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (31:55):
There are
jess---she-her-_1_01-28- (31:56):
Mmhmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (31:56):
that you need for that.
It is, you know, I liken it.
I mean, you're a mom, I'm a mom.
Like we, you, you watch yourchild.
Accumulate skills to move theirbody.
They don't just, you know, standup one day and start running.
You know,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28- (32:11):
Mmhmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (32:12):
that because that is such a busy time
and motherhood, but like, theyhave to build those skills.
It's the same thing when you'recreating this transition.
You have to incorporate theseskills.
It's not a, know, do this and X,y, z happens.
Like, that's like.
That's what diet culture is.
(32:32):
It's such a restrictive, like,puts you in a little tiny box.
There's no, you know, curiosityto your next thing is huge.
Just having that curiosity oflike, like, why did I get here?
Like, you know, and I love forme, it's one of the coolest
things when clients are like,they can articulate.
(32:54):
I realized when I was standingin the pantry, this
hypothetical, but wait.
And I was stuffing my space fullof whatever that I missed lunch
because it was so
jess---she-her-_1_01-28- (33:04):
Mmhmm.
Mmhmm.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (33:07):
make sure, or tonight I did this to
make sure I have food tomorrowbecause it's another busy day.
Amazing.
You set yourself up for success.
You didn't go down the shoulds,the like, guilt, the shame.
You had this.
Explore curiosity of why thesebehaviors happen, because
there's a reason and it doesn'tmean that it's bad.
(33:32):
There's just a reason.
And I think are just sopowerful.
And then the other one is huge.
I often, I ask similar questionand don't know if you find this
when you ask this to yourclients, but it stops them of
(33:52):
like, wait, no one's ever askedme that.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (33:54):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (33:55):
Life is busy and it's loud and we, I
don't know, life just startshappening to us.
Even if we're doing things,sometimes life starts happening
or like the cues, like bemindful of what you're eating or
understand the hunger scale,it's easy to tune out.
If you're so hungry or not, orwhen you get hungry and even
(34:15):
myself, I've had to be like,Ooh, we're not, I'm not
utilizing or understanding myhunger.
So like I employ that becauselife gets busy and
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (34:26):
does.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_1 (34:26):
is one of those that these seem
basic, but these are skillsimplement to set you up for
success.
But the best thing they love isthat curiosity.
And if you had no fear we're,yeah, I just think it puts more
power.
And more autonomy to to takehold of their health and really
(34:50):
find that, that central, I'mgoing to say like control that
central North, like deepinternal as to what they really,
really want.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (34:59):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
And, and I love everything youjust said.
And I'll add, like, I think wewant to be in control, right.
Of what we eat and our healtheven so badly.
And I do encourage women to stopusing that word.
Like you, you cannot controlyour health.
(35:23):
Like what you can do is haveagency, right.
You can influence.
Your health, right?
But that idea of like, I have tocontrol what I eat or I have to
get control of my weight,that's, that's, that's only
(35:45):
going to make this so muchharder for you and
unsustainable.
And it's just not like so muchgoes into that.
It's, it's not in your control.
That is so outcome based and theoutcome isn't in our control.
So thinking about where, youknow, where can I have agency?
Is, is typically what I, how Ilike to phrase it.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (36:08):
Yeah.
I love that.
Like agency is important and itis I always say, bodies change.
That's it.
That's a statement.
It's
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (36:15):
Yeah.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-20 (36:16):
that's a complete sentence.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2025_ (36:18):
I love that.
I'm gonna steal that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (36:20):
Yeah.
I,
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (36:22):
Yeah.
Oh
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025_13 (36:25):
I say the clients are like, and
I'm like, no, that's, that's atwo words.
it.
Bodies change.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (36:30):
Yeah.
We can, right.
builds habits that feel good forus, that we feel are healthy,
that make us feel healthy.
But how that's going to changeour weight and our body size
again, like we just don't know.
And I think having those weightloss goals that were that were
(36:50):
so hung up on It really onlyinterferes with our act, our
ability to actually heal ourrelationship with food and
fitness.
Like I honestly have yet to workwith a woman yet who has been
able to do both at the sametime.
Someone out there will prove mewrong, but yet to see that.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-202 (37:12):
yeah.
I would encourage anyonelistening reach out to Jess.
If you, I'm going to say, if youhave questions, her information
will be on the show notes.
Because there are other ways tofind, your true health for you
and for your lifestyle versusWhite knuckling, you know,
(37:33):
restriction, brutalizing yourbody.
jess---she-her-_1_01-28-2 (37:36):
yeah.
And I think that's a, that's agreat message maybe to leave
your listeners with as we wrapup.
Like it, the food noise, theshame around fitness, right.
And all of those shoulds thatyou're experiencing, like, yeah,
it, it doesn't have to be likethat.
kat--she-her-_1_01-28-2025 (37:54):
Yes.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
This is awesome.
I'm sure we'll have you back.
And you know, anyone listeningto you can send questions to the
podcast or get justiceinformation.
And we will, you know, theconversation doesn't end.
So, yeah, and if you know, ifanyone could benefit from this
episode, please, you know, shareit with them.
(38:17):
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Your feedback fuels thispodcast, and I'd love to hear
(38:38):
what's working for you or whattopics you want to dive into
next.
You can connect with me onInstagram at KatFit strength, or
share this episode.
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(39:00):
one mile at a time.
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