June 16, 2025 • 58 mins
What happens when your life gets turned upside down in the public eye because someone else made a terrible choice? Jen Sterger knows this reality all too well. Once known as the "FSU Cowgirl" who rose to prominence in sports media, Sterger's career trajectory changed forever when she became the unwilling centerpiece of Brett Favre's texting scandal while working for the New York Jets.
In this powerful conversation, Sterger opens up about her journey from being a young woman thrust into sudden fame to navigating the aftermath of a high-profile scandal where she was simultaneously victimized and vilified. With remarkable candor, she details how the very institutions that should have protected her – the NFL, her network, and the sports media ecosystem – instead treated her as the problem. "If you want to keep your job, be quiet" was the message she received time and again when attempting to speak her truth.
The turning point in Sterger's story came through comedy, catalyzed by advice from the legendary Norm MacDonald: "The sooner you can own this and make something from it, no one will be able to hurt you with it anymore." That insight led her to stand-up comedy, where she finally found the platform to tell her story on her own terms. As Sterger poignantly observes, "I think the most dangerous woman is the one with nothing to lose" – and through rebuilding her career independently, she's reclaimed her narrative and her power.
Sterger's message to women who've faced similar experiences in male-dominated industries resonates beyond the sports world: "What happened to them mattered, their stories matter." Her journey from victim to advocate represents a new model of resilience – not just surviving trauma, but transforming it into purpose and using it to help others find their voice. Subscribe now to hear this unforgettable conversation about accountability, healing, and the power of owning your story.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hi everyone, welcome back to Milk and Honey.
Today we're diving deep withsomeone whose story goes far
beyond the headlines.
She's a comedian now, butbefore she found her voice on
stage, she was in the eye of amedia storm that shook the
sports world and changed herlife forever.
Jen Sturger first rose to fameas the so-called FSU cowgirl,
but her journey took anunexpected turn when she became
(00:34):
the target of one of the NFL'smost notorious scandals.
She's the centerpiece of thenew Netflix documentary Untold
the Fall of Favre, which shinesa long overdue light in what she
went through and what it costher.
Jen, thanks so much for joiningus.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
No, thank you so much for having me.
It's always easier to havethese conversations with people
you consider friends.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yes, you know, and normally you know, we do have a
lot of lightheartedconversations Again, you know,
with comedy, oh we'll still makethis lighthearted.
And that's why you're.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I've done enough therapy around it now where I
can, I can honestly say umwatching the doc come out.
It felt like a moment ofcompletion.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I mean when I was like okay, I finally feel like
I've said my piece.
Uh, the truth is out there.
Um, not to get too X-Files-ybut like the truth is out there,
and if people just want toignore the truth, that's on them
now.
But, like I've said, what I'mgoing to say about this, you
know what I mean Period so.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I think when you have a chance to finally get that
closure for yourself, you canstart to make fun of it again,
which is honestly what my wholecomedy journey has been about.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah, and we're going to get into that, but I want to
kind of rewind all the way backto kind of the beginning of of
little god.
You know where you grew up, howyou grew up.
Well, when you guys were inmiddle school, I was kind of a
big deal no, I'm joking but forreal, how you're not an
environment kind of shaped yourdreams and ambitions this one it
could have how you knew, likeyou know, what you wanted to do
(02:03):
when you grew up.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Uh, look, I think.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I've always wanted to be in entertainment in some
capacity and I was always areally funny kid.
But I didn't know how I wasfunny.
I was just kind of the personthat said what everyone else in
the room was thinking, and thenI sort of fell into this sports
niche.
I got into sports because I wasin marching band and I needed
(02:26):
to like learn enough aboutfootball to know when we could
play uh because I was in chargeof the band.
I was the drum major um you know, like king of the dorks I took
on clarinet and I got kicked outof the band.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
You know if you ever played clarinet and if you blow
it wrong.
Wow what that duck noise Icouldn't get past the duck noise
.
So they're like maybe you justgo and cheer yeah, like maybe
you should be in color guard gotwirl in the corner.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
No instruments for kayla okay oh yeah, but I, I,
you know, I had to learn sportsthat way.
And then when I went to college, college I was a double major.
I was a criminology psychologydouble major because I wanted to
work in like forensicpsychology or something like
that.
Wow, what was the reason forthat Was it you're just going to
(03:24):
work with really fucked uppeople.
And now you're in comedy andyou work with really fucked up
people.
Honestly, I think that mypsychology degree also was just
a way of.
I've always been fascinatedwith how humans work and I never
felt like I was reallyunderstood in my life and I
(03:45):
didn't understand the peoplearound me.
So I felt like, hey, if I studythis, maybe I'll figure some
stuff out.
I still have not, but you know,I do think that my degrees
really helped me out now becauseit really helps me understand
audiences and like how toconnect with people.
Yeah, helps me understandaudiences and like how to
(04:06):
connect with people.
Yeah, but um, but yeah, I was.
I was in college and I wasdating this guy and he was a
sports management major and hewas like if you help me with my
homework, we can hang out.
And I was like okay, so I helpedhim with his homework and it
was, uh, making a footballplaybook, and so I basically
(04:27):
played a bunch of NCAA footballvideo games Stop, and I taught
myself football, Wow, and taughtmyself sports and I was like,
oh, when you know about sports,dudes like you.
Yes dudes like you.
Yes, and I was like I wasn'ttrying to be a pick me, I was
just trying to have someone pickme, you know like I just wanted
to date somebody and, um, andyeah, that really sports was
(04:51):
just a way of connection.
It was also a way of connectionwith my dad back in the day, you
know, because, like, if you, ifyou have a dad that uh always
wanted a son and you're thefirst born, um, odds are you are
the son, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Mean Like you're going to be raised as a son.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
We're like she's going to be good at softball.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
He's going to get you that mint and be like come on,
let's go play some catch.
You're like okay, I was likenope.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'm at piano recitals .
Son of a bitch, but yeah,that's kind of how I got into
sports, was I just had this?
You know this background andwanting to connect with people,
with them.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You first came into the national spotlight during
your first or your time atFlorida State University.
What was it like to suddenlybecome FSU cowgirl famous
practically literally overnight.
It was surreal.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
It was very surreal.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Like Pam Anderson, you know like exactly like pam
anderson.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Um, and I and I bring that up all the time but, um,
yeah, it was.
It was interesting because thiswas a time back when message
boards were a big thing and thatwas.
It was like the beginning ofthe internet.
Um, don't nod, like you werethere.
You were, were too young.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Oh, no you guys were in the AOL chat rooms.
I was in the wild.
Okay, you're right, we did haveAOL, I did have AOL.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
We interviewed a girl who's about 15 years younger
than us, and she was alwaysraised with the internet, so
it's funny to see the difference.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yes, You're right, we're much younger.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I definitely was grounded for being in chats.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I should probably shouldn't sorry mom and dad.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
he's like you're gonna end up on how to catch a
predator.
But yeah, it was.
It was so surreal because I sawmy pictures on these message
boards and the things peoplewould say about me were like she
doesn't even go here and like,uh, but that one guy said that I
think she's a stripper that'sjust pretending to be a student
and I was like I wish I madethat much money, um, but yeah,
(06:52):
they uh.
I got on these message boardsto like defend myself and it's
like I gave her a voice and Iwas like I'm more than just a
picture and yeah, and it justkind of snowballed from there
and then, like I guess a monthafter I got discovered, or a
month and a half after I gotdiscovered, playboy was doing
castings, uh, for the top 10party schools edition at florida
(07:14):
state, and so they found me andthen the week after I shot,
playboy, maxim called and theywere like that's great and how
old were you at this time, I'mlike 22, like what the?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
hell does a 22 year old know how to like handle all
of?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
this amazing we don't that's the problem.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I remember you remember back this is so
embarrassing, but you rememberback when, like on craigslist or
whatever, you find castings forlike someone looking for, like
a model they can take photos ofyes and I fell victim to that
because I was like I want to be.
I want to be a model.
So then you respond to theseCraigslist ads and you end up in
some weird dude's basement yeah, but like you're actually
getting these legitimatepublications reaching out to you
(07:49):
.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And that's the thing is like people will be like do
you regret doing Playboy?
And sometimes I do, but like Irealize you know you can't say I
wish I wouldn't have done that,because if you don't do any of
the things that you did to getyou to where you are, it's like
where do you?
you know you don't, maybe youdon't end up in the same place
(08:10):
you do absolutely right but likeback at the time, playboy was
considered to be like you werebeing as validated as possible
of being a beautiful woman.
Yes, and so I saw this as likeI never seen myself as being
beautiful, like conventionallypretty, and I just gone through
(08:31):
a gnarly breakup and I was likewait till he sees me in this
he's like oh, you like this, I'min that one.
Exactly, exactly.
And look, you know, 22 year oldme really needed that
validation.
You know, 22-year-old me reallyneeded that validation.
42-year-old me is like no girl,we're good.
But yeah, it was a very surrealthing how fast everything
(08:51):
happened, you know.
And then I ended up getting ajob at Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Well, and then you know, sports journalism and
hosting came out of all of that.
How do you think all thatinfluenced that?
Is that something that you hadthought about doing before?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
No, no, I'm going to be honest.
I kind of just wrote the wavewith this.
Do you know what I mean?
It was such a lightning in thebottle experience and I just
took every situation as it cameto me and every opportunity as
it came to me and was like, doesthis propel me forward without
compromising my morals?
You know, because I didexperience backlash from doing
the playboy thing.
You know, I I had this onemeeting at ESPN for a gig and
(09:35):
the guy I met with at like thisreally nice restaurant in New
York, he put my playboy in themiddle of a table and he goes do
you think this is appropriate?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
do you think what you're doing is appropriate.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I said you putting my magazine?
With me naked in the middle ofa public space.
No, I don't think it'sappropriate good for you yeah
girl, I've never been the typethat's ever backed down until
the far thing happened like.
And it was because Iexperienced so much quiet
(10:10):
backlash, um for standing up formyself at espn that I think
when it happened again I wasjust like oh, I must be the
problem you know what I mean and, like it really tapped into
some, some deeper stuff for mewell, we're gonna get into that
with the far stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You know, we saw, you saw everything kind of shift
because of of the scandal, um,and I know to this day that's
such a defining chapter in yourstory completely took your life
in a different uh direction.
But you know people who haveseen the far documentary got to
hear from you, loved hearing youknow you and I have never sat
and talked about it in that youknow, magnitude.
(10:50):
I'm so happy I got to.
I know she watched it as well,but in your own words and you
know things that maybe didn'tmake it into the documentary.
For whatever reason, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Thank you.
It's very weird.
I I had a situation in highschool one time and I it led to
a um restraining order toanother person and my sister.
This is when, like my space wasaround right.
So my sister, who is nine yearsolder than I am, knew what was
going on and knew what was beingsaid like death threats, egging
(13:26):
my parents' house, things likethat and she printed out
everything that was said onMySpace, put it in a binder and
we went to court, just handedthe judge the binder.
The judge opened it, flippedthrough maybe two pages and said
I don't even need to hearanything else, you get your
restraining order.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Like, and if we didn't have that, we would have
had to be going back and forthback and forth.
But yeah, that's why youdocument and you take things in
and you print them and you putthem away.
Or obviously now we have ourphones, but you know, back then
we didn't, so we'd printeverything and yeah, just.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, if anybody's ever trying to get you on the
phone instead of putting it intext Nope, nope, nope, nope,
nope.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
This needs to be in writing and you still have
everything currently.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
God, I think.
It's like I have it in storage,like in a lot, like in a safety
deposit box, and it's like it'slike 15 or 17 binders of stuff,
because wasn't when I had tohand over all my text and my
communications to the NFL.
They wanted everything.
Not just the stuff that appliedto this Right.
It was a total invasion ofprivacy, like it's every social
(14:39):
media message.
It's every text we didn't haveWhatsApp at the time Every email
, every phone call log.
Like they wanted access to avery painful time in my life you
know, because I was not justdealing with the stuff at the
Jets, I was dealing with gettingout of a very abusive
relationship, and having to goback and like reread all those
(15:03):
texts with NFL investigators wasjust such a violating
experience for lack of a betterword and especially when you're
just sitting there with men thatare like, well, prove, you're
not the problem.
I finally was like, hey, ifyou're going to keep talking to
me like I'm the issue, I'm goingto get up, yeah, and I'm going
(15:28):
to leave.
And I said, and then it's justgoing to be three dudes sitting
around looking at a picture ofanother dude's dick.
Right, have fun.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I was like I'm going to step out for a minute.
I'm going to step out for aminute.
I love a Spitfire gym.
I'm going to step out for aminute.
I love a Spitfire gym.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I'm going to step out for a minute and I'm going to
like I'll let you guys figureout what you want to do and how
you want this to proceed, butI'm like this is not how it's
going to go.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yep, and when I came back in they were much different
, but again it's just I probablyexpect you to fold because a
lot of women, especially at thatage, put in that position to
fold because Well, because we'vebeen programmed to be nice, of
course, and disagreeable.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
I don't cause problems, just you know, nod
your head.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yes, being a nice girl has gotten me nowhere but
in trouble.
I'm a good person.
You can be a good person andnot be a nice person.
A nice person lets people walkall over them and doesn't have
boundaries.
A good person is like I haveboundaries but I'm good to
people and that's who I want tobe.
(16:32):
You know and there were justthese glimmers of it during the
whole investigation that whereI'm like, where I finally would
just give up being the nice girland I would finally stand up
for myself and like.
Those are the moments where Ilook back and I'm like I'm proud
.
I'm proud of myself for doingthat Right, because being a nice
girl wasn't going to get meanywhere.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
How did the Netflix documentary come come into play?
Oh, girl.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I got approached by like 10 different.
It must have I lost count aftera while, but it was at least 10
different people and productioncompanies at some point or
another pitched this project tome.
One of them was like a formerproducer for mr beast and I was
like, yeah, no, what are yougonna do like lock us in?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
a.
It's gonna be a game.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You're gonna lock us in an abandoned plane and
they're like get it jets andwe'll put me her and bread farm
in the plane and then have themdo like I was like no no, like
it had to be the right person,of course do you know what I
mean?
it had to be the right person.
Do you know what I mean?
It had to be the right personthat I knew was going to
actually tell my story this time, because I can't tell you how
many times over the past decadejournalists have been like,
(17:34):
don't worry, I'm going to tellyour story.
And it's like no, they're goingto tell the story that services
, whatever their agenda is, andnot your story.
And I think Netflix is theclosest thing.
I don't think it's my entirestory, but I think it's the
closest thing I've had togetting my whole story out there
(17:57):
and hats off to Netflix,because I actually had to do a
reshoot with them, because theysaw the dailies and the edits
from the first interview that Ihad with them, where I sat for
like six hours and they werelike this girl is so compelling
and so man, and like, honestly,was the canary in the coal mine,
(18:24):
you know?
And we ignored her.
Like she warned us who thisperson was and we ignored her.
And so netflix was like wereally want to do another shoot
with her where we show peoplethat she's a credible witness
and that she was just a girltrying to do her job, and so
they came back and they did asecond round of shoots with me
(18:47):
and that's where they reallybrought in some of my
backstories, that peopleunderstood who I was, because I
think up until then I was just apicture to people.
And when you're just a 2Dfigure or I'm sure you can even
relate to this, kayla fromworking for a bigger entity,
your image is so controlled thatthat's all people know of you.
(19:09):
So then when you're like, no,no, I'm actually this 3D person,
this 4D person that's out hereliving in the real world, people
are like you know, it doesn'tnecessarily jive with their
beliefs of you.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
When those private messages became public.
How did that affect youprofessionally and personally?
I think about especially theprofessional side.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I really think about and I fucking like it breaks my
heart thinking about it, becauseI mean working in a place like
wwe as a woman how quickly youcan be covered up and push aside
everything you work for.
They don't use you anymorebecause you didn't do exactly
what they said and I just can'timagine especially with the
trajectory you were on with yourcareer being an on-air
(19:51):
personality.
Do you feel like you losteverything in that regard
because of this?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
You know, one of the things that really stuck with me
is how my situation affectedothers is how my situation
affected others.
Like I had my own televisionshow at the time on NBC Sports
slash.
It was called Versus at thetime, but I had my own TV show
that I was on a panel of, andthe scandal broke at the
beginning of October and by theend of October, our show got
(20:20):
canceled.
And so not only was I out ofwork, but like got canceled.
And so not only was I out ofwork, but like all everyone was
out of work and I had this likedeep burden that I had cost all
of these people their jobs.
And it's not.
And the thing is is I wanted totalk, like I wanted to clear my
name, and I was not allowed to.
I asked my, I asked my network.
(20:41):
I was like, hey, I'll sit downand have an interview with you
guys, I don't care, I havenothing to hide from you guys,
and no one would let me speak.
And so instead I was likerelegated to this side table,
this like Tony Reale-esqueposition, where I was just a
peripheral character instead ofbeing on the main desk with like
(21:02):
my coworkers and that was likekind of their way of phasing me
out.
You know that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I'm getting so mad, um, and going back to you
talking about just how you knowdehumanizing it is and how much
they dehumanized you, um, justwhat people don't know what that
feels like.
Can you expand a little bitabout what that, what that feels
like?
Can you expand a?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
little bit on what that feels like for a person.
I really felt it when I finallywas exposed to look, this is
like back in Twitter's heyday,you know, and you were just not
ready for that.
Many people's not ready for thatmany people's opinions of you
(21:47):
to be shouted at you at fullvolume and especially with
limited facts.
So people are just going off.
Like when you watch thedocumentary they show how
terribly the media covered itand they were like what's her
point in coming out with thisnow?
And it's like I didn't come outwith this.
I was thrust out with this.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
That was frustrating for me to watch from your
perspective.
It's like people are like yeah,why is she?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
is she just trying to like get attention?
She's trying to get attention.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
You were exposed, you trusted somebody and they
fucked you over.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yep, and look, that's the part of this that I take
full accountability for trusting.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I trusted the wrong person.
I trusted the wrong person.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
You look, aj wasn't a model citizen.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Um, and I'd actually had peoplebe like yo.
I don't know why you're workingwith him.
He's dangerous and it's justkind of like I don't know.
I look at it kind of like the,you know, like the whole tale of
like the scorpion and the toad,where, like the scorpion's like
hey, I really need to getacross this river.
(22:52):
You know, and the toad's likebro, you're gonna sting me.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
And he's like no, no, I promise.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
We're good, we're good.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
And then you get halfway across the river and
you're like fuck bro why'd youshoot me?
That's what yeah, that's it I'msure that's exactly how it was
written for sure, write thatstory in jim's voice, my my
fables book is gonna slap, butyeah, it's.
uh, it was very much that youknow where.
It's.
Just like I was warned that hewasn't a good person and in my
(23:23):
eyes, when I talked AJ about it,it honestly felt validating
because I was like, oh, this isthe first time I'm being
believed, because up until thenI had told people what was
happening and they would justsay to me if you want to keep
your job, be quiet, right.
If you want to keep your job,be quiet.
(23:45):
And this was the first timesomeone was like, hey, you know,
what happened to you was wrong,right.
Oh, what a slut.
And it was just the wrongperson.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yes, how did you expect the NFL to react, even
though and I know or respond,and how did their response
actually impact you?
Or is it different to what youexpected?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
versus what actually happened.
Did you expect them to protectyou at all, or did you know?
Because I would?
I would, I guess, at that time.
It's not that I expected themto protect me.
Yes, you expect your job, youhope for the best, you hope your
job to hear you and understandwhat's going on, they find you
important.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
They want to protect you and you're not an NFL player
, but you were an importantasset at the NFL at the time.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Here's the thing With that.
I have this character flawwhere I hope for the best in
people.
You know what I mean.
Where I'm like, even though Iknow they're not like, I just I
(24:55):
just, even though they're notlike they're not perfect beings,
I still hope for the best inpeople.
I hope that people are going todo the right thing.
And when I say the right thing,it's not like the right thing
for business, it's like themorally right thing.
Where I'm like, it's like themorally right thing.
Where I'm like, hey, like,protect the vulnerable.
You know, like, do the rightthing.
And I should have known betterbecause like, and that's one of
(25:19):
the reasons why when I see themlike pushing out all the breast
cancer stuff and I see thempushing out all the pink jerseys
, and I'm like they sodesperately want the support and
the money from women, fromfemale fans.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And the fact of the matter is they've shown us time
and time again that they don'tgive a shit about what happens.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
It's so, it's, it's yeah, it's just, they don't care
.
No, they do no.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
And so that's when I'm like, hey, this is one of
those times where I'm like, ifwomen want to make a difference,
we got to put our money whereour mouth is and not support
these type of things.
You know what I mean.
I haven't really watched a tonof football since I went through
this, you know and that sucksbecause like I love football.
(26:11):
I watch college football alittle bit more because and look
, people can get mad about thatbecause, like you know the whole
um, nil and like athletes beingcompensated, and now it's it's
not as pure of a game now, butit's like, yeah, but those kids
were also being taken advantageof by a shitty system, and I
didn't even ask you if we'reallowed to cuss on the show, so
(26:31):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
No, no, we're good.
I've said fuck like five times.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
But like college football.
You know, back in the daypeople used to be like I like
college football because it's somuch more pure and it's like no
.
That's like no.
That's like where we'reestablishing the rules of how
they're supposed to act whenthey make it Right, and I do
feel like we have to startholding people that want to be
viewed as heroes to higherstandards.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
And that's what I want to get into.
That's a perfect segue to myquestion about freaking Brett
Favre, who was hailed as a herofor how many freaking decades?
Freaking Brett Favre, who washailed as a hero for how many
freaking decades?
And even after his documentaryand beyond the stuff that he did
to you, the other stuff, youknow, scandalous shit that he's
done why do you and people arestill people still refuse to see
him as the person that he is,even after giving all the facts,
(27:22):
all the examples of the shitthat he's done?
Why do you think that somepeople like him can still get
away with being a terrible humanbeing?
Is because people still seethem as this is a hero, like
there's people in WWE who havedone some really messed up
things, but some people refuseto see it because that is their
hero, while people like you facethe consequences of doing
(27:44):
nothing wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I think people have a really hard time holding the
idea that two things can be trueat once.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
And we tell ourselves stories about athletes and
about, you know, celebritiesthat are important to us.
You know what I mean.
Like Brett Favre to someonecould be a favorite memory that
they have with their dad, youknow what I mean.
(28:14):
Or like the people of Green Baythat they show it.
Green Bay was like a place yousent athletes to be punished.
It wasn't considered a winningtown anymore, it was kind of
considered like a banishment,you know, and he gave the people
of Green Bay which, by the way,is, I think, the only team that
(28:35):
is actually owned by the peopleLike they own the majority of
the team.
The team doesn't have a quoteunquote.
Like owner.
That adds another layer to it,and so it's like we're invested
in this, the town is invested inthis, you know um.
And so I think he justrepresents something to them
that's like so much bigger thanhim as a person.
(28:57):
And so to have to like,reconcile, like oh, this thing
that I've placed on thispedestal is not necessarily the
person I thought they were, theyjust can't, their brain just
can't hold those two truths atthe same time, you know Right.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
They have to pick.
They have to pick one or theother Like.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I literally just got a DM from somebody, like right
before I walked in here, um, andI had called the guy out, um,
cause he goes.
You're disgusting talking shitabout someone who has
Parkinson's, oh my God.
And I wrote back.
I said you know what'sdisgusting Stealing welfare
money, then saying theyshouldn't have, let me steal it.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
High five.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Oh my gosh and he wrote me back and he says I
wanted to apologize to you.
I was just frustrated becausehe was my hero when I was a kid
and you didn't deserve how Ispoke to you and you didn't
deserve any of this and I hopeyou can forgive me and I will
try to be a better person movingforward.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Wow, wow.
That never happens.
That's amazing, that like heactually at least.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
He probably didn't expect you to see it, didn't
expect you to respond to it.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
My favorite thing to do to trolls is to go.
What were you trying to?
It's to get curious, I go.
What were you trying toaccomplish by saying something
that disgusting to a stranger,but you have no idea who they
are.
What were?
Speaker 3 (30:13):
you trying to accomplish, get curious.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Don't get combative, get curious and be like what's
the end goal here for you?
Because so often it's becauseyou're triggering something in
them, right?
And when you ask them, hey,what's that about?
They go uh, uh, uh, I don'tknow, yep.
And then they're like oh, it'sabout some shit that I have
(30:36):
unresolved with something thathappened to me, and blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And I'm like I love being thatpivotal moment in someone's life
that's true when you're likehey, I'm going to force you to
go inward and look at some stuffat yourself that you don't like
right now.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
You probably changed that family dinner for the week
that's right.
You have some new things tocontribute.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Thank you and I think honestly, the message that we
(33:02):
can both gain from this is don't.
Why are you on myspace?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Right like nothing, good happens on my nothing good
okay, we top 12, top six, topeight like this is brutal trauma
.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
This is why we have trauma.
We were brutal, we had wesomething would happen at school
and we would go home and we'dbe like becky's, not in my topic
anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I always knew when someone was on a breakup because
their away message was likesomething some poem and you're
like, oh, Tommy and Jen broke uptoday.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
You know it's like it was that that
Speaker 3 (33:33):
the mental of it all, you know, was insane.
I mean, what, what?
What impact do you think thatexperience had for you when it
came to both that that time andthose years since?
And also like how do youcontinue to heal from that Cause
?
This, I know healing is.
It's a non-ending journey.
Right, we're always going tocontinue to heal.
We're always going to havethose moments that pop up of
(33:56):
trauma, and how do you workthrough those Cause?
(40:08):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank
you, you, yeah, I mean, do youdo you think that the, you know,
sports and entertainmentindustries have improved when it
comes to handling harassment,or do you think it's?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
the same old story?
I think it's the same old storyI think, it's the same old
story and I think they, but Ithink they try to put lipstick
on it by going but look, we havewomen in positions of power,
right?
And and they're gonna, they'regonna make sure that things are
done right around here for otherwomen and it's like no those
are the pick me's.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
That's funny to watch .
It's so funny to watch up closetoo, because it's so
transparent yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
You see it every time Pick me's exist in
professionals, but when thosewomen do try to help us out.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
All of a sudden they're no longer in office,
Right.
So weird how that happens.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
The ones, the ones that I I know in a situation,
the the one that was alwayssnitching on everybody, making
sure other people got in trouble, always going to the boss.
Now she's the boss.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, makes sense isn't that amazing how that
happens?
Yeah, it's like are we?
Y'all think we're stupid?
Speaker 3 (40:59):
now she's the head honcho.
The other boss is retired,probably hates her life, goes
home, pops a bunch of pills andchugs it with some vodka and
goes about hating herself.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I feel like we're tapping into some shit, let me
readdress myself real quick.
Okay, I want to get back intocomedy.
I want to know when thattransition happened Like I feel
like a lot of funny people Imean I think I'm kind of funny,
but it kind of stems from trauma.
Yeah, I know that's likegrowing up the way I grew up
(41:48):
no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Think barstools had so much success is because they
they don't take themselves tooseriously, right, and they're
fun.
They just feel like, whetheryou agree with like all of their
principles or not, they'restill dudes that like you'd sit
at a bar with and have a goodtime.
You know what I mean?
And that's the thing is.
I just I feel like sports havejust always taken themselves too
(42:13):
seriously, and so when peopleare like, would you go back to
sports?
And it's like that's likeasking me if I'd go back to my
most abusive boyfriend.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Right, I'm like no, no, absolutely not.
She's grown.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
What's what's been the most rewarding part of
performing stand-up.
It's a really great way toprocess things that I am dealing
with in a way that createsconnection with an audience.
You know, like for the longesttime I did not talk about the
(42:51):
Favre stuff on stage because itjust felt like it was so
unrelatable.
You know what I mean, andstand-up's all about relation
and connection, and I was justlike there's no way anyone will
ever be able to sympathize orrelate to what I went through,
and with the documentary comingout, my DMs have shown me
(43:14):
otherwise where I'm like oh,this meant a lot to a lot of
people, not just me.
It meant a lot to other peopleto see someone that was going
through something similarfinally get the chance to tell
their story, and so for me,stand up is just a way of doing
that, and that also involvescomedy, because comedy is so
(43:36):
healing.
Being able to laugh, being ableto finally laugh about
something, is so healing, sohealing.
And one of the things that Itackle when I talk about it on
stage is the concept of thenumber of women that stepped on
(44:01):
my neck to get what they wantedwhen the most terrible thing
happened to me, where they sawmy downfall as a chance to step
over me as an opportunity I knowa few of those too, to step
over me and claim it to stepover me and claim it, and so I'm
(44:23):
using my voice on stage toagain remind people that you
don't have to do that.
And again, just call out theinjustices, but do it in a way
that's funny and poignant.
I think the people that are thebest at comedy are the ones
that are willing to say whateveryone else in the room has
like thought or felt, but neverhad the balls to say because it
might not be the popular opinion.
Right, you know?
(44:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (44:44):
have you had any of those people who stepped on your
neck or were terrible to youwhen all this was happening and
didn't believe you and were onyour side and I'll see
everything come to light andreach out like, hey, I'm, I'm
really sorry?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
No, no, no.
But you know what?
I don't need them to.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Of course you don't.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
You don't need them to.
And here's the thing, kayla.
It says so much more that theyhaven't done the work on
themselves to know that theywere in the wrong.
Do you know what I mean?
Of course, and the only timeanyone ever makes an apology is
when you like.
If the only time someoneapologizes when you publicly
hold them over the coals, that'snot an apology.
(45:23):
No, that's saving face.
That's saving face.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
So I'm like, yes, I do.
I mean I think you'd rather getlike a call like Jen Hay.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Even a text or just something like a hey, Not over a
social platform, Someone whoposts, like I just saw, like
that's obviously for their ownpersonal gain, Like look at me,
I've grown so much Also.
Clout, clout, clout, clout.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, who wants clout from this?
This is not fun.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
But people will use it People will use it oh.
I know People love to use it.
You know people love takingsomeone else's story and making
it about at the time when allthis, when all the farve stuff,
actually happened.
The one that was like thereally messed up relationship.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
He like went on his show and he was like yeah, we
lived this.
And I was like we, we where we?
What I was like?
Plus, I checked, you werecheating on me with brooke hogan
that's when you know my lifecomes full circle.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (46:14):
oh my god, where you're.
Just like brooke hogan, youknow um god and then you mean oh
my God, where you're just likewe're going.
You know God, people and then,you end up working in wrestling
later and you're like wow, Allthese six degrees of.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
I know, wow, what do they call it?
The invisible string theory.
But actually not in theromantic sense.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
No, but I just thought it was so crazy that the
people that took the I canalways tell when someone because
they'll make the story aboutthat Like oh yeah, I remember
that this happened because I wasdoing this and it's like you
weren't like this did not impactyour life, no, like you went on
and nothing happened to you.
This brought my life to ascreeching halt and I had to
(46:52):
rebuild everything, everything,rebuild everything.
And it's crazy because now, Ithink, people are way less
likely to underestimate mebecause I'm like I think the
most dangerous woman, is the onewith nothing to lose, and I've
built my career now where peoplecan't take it from me because
(47:13):
and that's what you have to do Ithink so many people, when they
work for like bigger companies,like, like you know, these,
these networks and entertainmentcompanies, they think that they
get accustomed to like gettingtheir role handed to them and
they don't realize, like whenyou leave, it's like you're
going to have to create a wholelife for yourself, but it's
going to be a grind and you haveto be willing to put that work
(47:36):
in and create those avenues foryourself to get seen, to get
noticed, and then opportunitiescan come to you.
But I feel like there'ssomething so much more powerful
about maintaining your own likeflexibility.
I guess is like a good way, orlike being able to like pick and
choose what opportunities workfor you because you're your own
boss, right, like that's just somuch more fulfilling to me Amen
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I know you haven't spoken to Favre.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Never.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I just wonder if you're going to, out of my own
curiosity, any feedback thathe's going to trickle down to
you of what he thought about,because he probably thought this
was going to go away.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
This has been many years since all this happened,
I've never come out, ever again.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Netflix documentary.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
We're talking Netflix , we.
And then bam, netflixdocumentary.
We're talking Netflix.
We're not talking about MrBeast producer show.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I know there was an email that was sent that was
like I can't believe you guysare making this and if so-and-so
was in charge, this would havenever happened.
And it's like yeah, buddy,guess what?
So-and-so's not in chargeanymore, right, and this is
called accountability, exactlythis is called your time to take
(48:42):
it.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah, people can go through life and just yeah, and
that's what hopefully we'regoing to see more in just the
world overall in business andcorporations.
Account of fucking ability.
Get some t-shirts, put it upright now.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
The really cool, literally is, is if you sit back
long enough, I really feel likethese type of people, the ones
that like take advantage ofsystems of power, eventually
they start to eat each otheryeah and it's kind of like that
scene in mean Girls where ReginaGeorge throws all of her papers
(49:18):
up into the sky where you justsit there and you watch them,
they'll eat themselves.
Yes, do you know?
Speaker 1 (49:24):
what I mean.
Look what's happening in WWEright now.
The people at the top who aregetting?
They're all eating each other.
Oh, I haven't been payingattention.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
I'm allowed to talk.
I think I signed somethingwhere I can't talk about
publicly but, you know, but goto Twitter.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
You'll see what's happening.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
But that's the thing is, and I think one of the
things that I I again when Iworked in wrestling.
I think the thing that becomesabundantly clear to you is, like
that independent contractorstatus is just such a tightrope
(49:58):
because and I'm one of thosepeople that in any industry I've
worked in, because, like, it'snot just sports and it's not
just wrestling and it's not justentertainment If you're going
to call me an independentcontractor and you're not going
to give me the rights of someonethat works for this company,
like an employee status whereyou're going to help me pay for
my health care, you're going totake care of me, et cetera, et
(50:20):
cetera, you're going to help meplan my retirement If you're not
going to give me any of thosethree things, you don't fucking
own me.
And I think that that'ssomething like I really wish and
(50:41):
it's going to take again.
It's going to take people notbeing scabs, but it's going to
like to create a union for thesetypes of things.
But I really do think that it's.
It's going to be this one daywhere people look at all of the
people that used to wrestle,that can barely move or that end
up losing their lives becausethey get addicted to pain pills
Like it's going to take themgoing.
We don't want to end up likethat.
And we want to make sure thepeople coming up behind us don't
want to end up like that, andwe have to do something, and the
(51:02):
only reason that that hasn'thappened so far is because
there's always someone that'swilling to go.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
I'll do it.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
I'll do it.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Well, I'll do it and I'm like those are the people
that are screwing it up foreverybody, because if everyone
said no again, it's like votewith your money, vote with your
money.
Band together there's safety innumbers, like I truly believe
in that stuff when it comes tobeing an independent contractor
we can hope for those things.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
What message do you want to send to other women who
have experienced harassment,especially in a male dominated
industries like sports andentertainment, like what's
something that you want to leavefor them?
Speaker 2 (51:43):
That what happened to them mattered, that their
stories matter.
There was a pivotal momentduring the FARVE stuff that like
now I look back and I go, oh,that moment was much bigger than
I gave it significance for atthe time.
And I got approached with likea lot of different business
(52:06):
stuff when the Favre thing washappening because everybody was
like, will she talk, will shenot talk, you know?
But I got approached by NormMacDonald.
You know a comedian, normMacDonald, legend Norm MacDonald
, because he had a sports showat the time on comedy central
and he was like, hey, I want todo this sketch about old dudes
(52:28):
trying to text younger women andjust how bad we are at it.
And he pitched me thisdelightfully, norm idea.
Like you know, that was just solike Norm MacDonald, in its tone
, quirky and dark, and you know.
But at the time I went, when Itook it to my management team
and my lawyers, they were likeyou can't do this.
(52:49):
If you do this, no one willtake you seriously as a victim.
And I was like they alreadydon't.
Yeah, but obviously I went backto norm and I was like, hey,
they're saying no, I'm reallysorry, because this is something
like you.
You've been an idol of mine fora long time and you know, like
I'm just, I'm just honored toeven be able to have a
(53:10):
conversation with you.
And he said, Chen, you know, Iunderstand entirely, like your
team's position on this, but hegoes.
But I just I feel for you, kid,he goes, you're just, you're in
a real shit situation right now.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
He's like.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
But if I can give you any advice, he goes the sooner
you can own this, the sooner youcan own this and make something
from it.
No one will be able to hurt youwith it anymore.
He goes.
And that's when you take yourstory back and I truly think,
like when I think back on, likepivotal moments, it was that
(53:51):
conversation that was like, oh,it really lit the path to comedy
for me.
It lit the path to comedy forme.
It showed me that, like thatwas the one place I was gonna be
able to tell my story in itsentirety and all the pieces that
affected me, where it wasn'tjust about being a victim, it
(54:12):
was about persevering andcreating something really cool
and memorable and impactful withit.
And that's what I try to dowith my comedy and that's what I
try to help other women do, andthat's like it's my main goal
in comedy now for real is tomake sure that women know their
stories matter.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
And to own them.
Don't let anybody else own them.
No.
Speaker 3 (54:35):
Ah Jen.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
I'm so proud of you.
I really am.
I'm so lucky to know you andI'm excited.
Listen, you're such a badass.
It could be on the show anytime.
Seriously, we could probablytalk for another three hours.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Yeah, no, we literally have four minutes.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
So yeah, to wrap this one up, but no, seriously.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
I appreciate you sharing more of your story and
girl, look, I'm proud of youbecause it is so easy to stay in
a system, you know.
But it's quite another thing tolike go out on a limb and bet
on yourself Yep, you know what Imean, because it's not easy.
And there's so many minuteswhere you're like, what am I
(55:14):
doing and did I make the wrongchoice?
And there's so many minuteswhere you're like what am I
doing and did I make the wrongchoice?
And if I can just be like that,like lighthouse for you,
because I know sometimes you'relike I've seen you on social
where you're like I don't knowabout this.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
If.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
I can just be that lighthouse for you, like it's
going to happen, thank you.
You know what I mean.
Like you've created an awesomething here and this is just the
beginning, you know.
It's just um being able to likestand in your power and own all
of it.
That, like that's like theauthenticity is the thing that's
(55:47):
going to take you the furthest,and I'm just so proud of you as
a friend.
Speaker 3 (55:51):
I'm on my moon cycle right now.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
So I'm like emotional over here and you just yeah
your, your strength, um it just.
Speaker 3 (55:59):
It shows so much, and I know so many women are having
their mind changed by yourexperience, and so thank you for
being open and just wanting tohelp other women.
You really are truly a girl'sgirl and and you, your money is
where your mouth is, and we seethat and everyone sees that.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Watch a girl.
Don't look for the girl.
That's like I am a girl's girl.
Look at the girl that walks,that walk you know what I mean
but yeah, thank you so much forhaving me guys thank you for
being here if anyone wants tocome and see you live.
You can go to my Instagram mylink in bio.
It has a place that you cansign up to get tour
(56:40):
notifications.
That's like the number oneplace that you can find me,
because it, honestly, it helpsshow me where people want to see
me, right, so I can plan a moreeffective tour literally
thought you said linkedin bio.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
I'm like people are doing that.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
Now you're putting your tour dates on linkedin no,
no, no, there's a link in my bio, but also you should, but yeah
that's the number one thing I'masking people to do is please
sign up to see me um tour,because comedy comedy has
completely saved my life and Iknow like I got my first like
true standing ovation the otherday in la jolla talking about
(57:13):
this new stuff, and I'm just Iknow I'm on to something special
, yes, but also it was crazybecause I just I'm so bad with
social cues.
I thought people were gettingup to leave really fast, so I
was like walking off the stageand this lady was like no, no,
no, jen, they're standing foryou and I was like, oh my gosh,
maybe this could turn into aspecial.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
My bad guys.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
No, I do feel like the stuff that people are going
to watch me put up on stage inthe next six to eight months is
going to end up being my special.
So please come out and see me.
I also have a podcast with mybuddy, eddie, called Not Today.
As in not today Satan and wetalk about all kinds of like
mental health stuff and justlike the experiences we all go
through and I truly love doingthat with, like my best friend
(57:58):
yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Well, thank you so much, and thank you guys always
for watching and joining us forthese important conversations
with people that we love.
Make sure you guys come backevery single Monday.
Thanks again, jen, and we'llsee you next time.
Thanks, ladies, see ya.
Hi everyone, welcome back to Milk and Honey.
Today we're diving deep withsomeone whose story goes far
beyond the headlines.
She's a comedian now, butbefore she found her voice on
stage, she was in the eye of amedia storm that shook the
sports world and changed herlife forever.
Jen Sturger first rose to fameas the so-called FSU cowgirl,
but her journey took anunexpected turn when she became
(00:34):
the target of one of the NFL'smost notorious scandals.
She's the centerpiece of thenew Netflix documentary Untold
the Fall of Favre, which shinesa long overdue light in what she
went through and what it costher.
Jen, thanks so much for joiningus.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
No, thank you so much for having me.
It's always easier to havethese conversations with people
you consider friends.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yes, you know, and normally you know, we do have a
lot of lightheartedconversations Again, you know,
with comedy, oh we'll still makethis lighthearted.
And that's why you're.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I've done enough therapy around it now where I
can, I can honestly say umwatching the doc come out.
It felt like a moment ofcompletion.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I mean when I was like okay, I finally feel like
I've said my piece.
Uh, the truth is out there.
Um, not to get too X-Files-ybut like the truth is out there,
and if people just want toignore the truth, that's on them
now.
But, like I've said, what I'mgoing to say about this, you
know what I mean Period so.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I think when you have a chance to finally get that
closure for yourself, you canstart to make fun of it again,
which is honestly what my wholecomedy journey has been about.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah, and we're going to get into that, but I want to
kind of rewind all the way backto kind of the beginning of of
little god.
You know where you grew up, howyou grew up.
Well, when you guys were inmiddle school, I was kind of a
big deal no, I'm joking but forreal, how you're not an
environment kind of shaped yourdreams and ambitions this one it
could have how you knew, likeyou know, what you wanted to do
(02:03):
when you grew up.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Uh, look, I think.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I've always wanted to be in entertainment in some
capacity and I was always areally funny kid.
But I didn't know how I wasfunny.
I was just kind of the personthat said what everyone else in
the room was thinking, and thenI sort of fell into this sports
niche.
I got into sports because I wasin marching band and I needed
(02:26):
to like learn enough aboutfootball to know when we could
play uh because I was in chargeof the band.
I was the drum major um you know, like king of the dorks I took
on clarinet and I got kicked outof the band.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
You know if you ever played clarinet and if you blow
it wrong.
Wow what that duck noise Icouldn't get past the duck noise
.
So they're like maybe you justgo and cheer yeah, like maybe
you should be in color guard gotwirl in the corner.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
No instruments for kayla okay oh yeah, but I, I,
you know, I had to learn sportsthat way.
And then when I went to college, college I was a double major.
I was a criminology psychologydouble major because I wanted to
work in like forensicpsychology or something like
that.
Wow, what was the reason forthat Was it you're just going to
(03:24):
work with really fucked uppeople.
And now you're in comedy andyou work with really fucked up
people.
Honestly, I think that mypsychology degree also was just
a way of.
I've always been fascinatedwith how humans work and I never
felt like I was reallyunderstood in my life and I
(03:45):
didn't understand the peoplearound me.
So I felt like, hey, if I studythis, maybe I'll figure some
stuff out.
I still have not, but you know,I do think that my degrees
really helped me out now becauseit really helps me understand
audiences and like how toconnect with people.
Yeah, helps me understandaudiences and like how to
(04:06):
connect with people.
Yeah, but um, but yeah, I was.
I was in college and I wasdating this guy and he was a
sports management major and hewas like if you help me with my
homework, we can hang out.
And I was like okay, so I helpedhim with his homework and it
was, uh, making a footballplaybook, and so I basically
(04:27):
played a bunch of NCAA footballvideo games Stop, and I taught
myself football, Wow, and taughtmyself sports and I was like,
oh, when you know about sports,dudes like you.
Yes dudes like you.
Yes, and I was like I wasn'ttrying to be a pick me, I was
just trying to have someone pickme, you know like I just wanted
to date somebody and, um, andyeah, that really sports was
(04:51):
just a way of connection.
It was also a way of connectionwith my dad back in the day, you
know, because, like, if you, ifyou have a dad that uh always
wanted a son and you're thefirst born, um, odds are you are
the son, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Mean Like you're going to be raised as a son.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
We're like she's going to be good at softball.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
He's going to get you that mint and be like come on,
let's go play some catch.
You're like okay, I was likenope.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'm at piano recitals .
Son of a bitch, but yeah,that's kind of how I got into
sports, was I just had this?
You know this background andwanting to connect with people,
with them.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You first came into the national spotlight during
your first or your time atFlorida State University.
What was it like to suddenlybecome FSU cowgirl famous
practically literally overnight.
It was surreal.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
It was very surreal.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Like Pam Anderson, you know like exactly like pam
anderson.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Um, and I and I bring that up all the time but, um,
yeah, it was.
It was interesting because thiswas a time back when message
boards were a big thing and thatwas.
It was like the beginning ofthe internet.
Um, don't nod, like you werethere.
You were, were too young.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Oh, no you guys were in the AOL chat rooms.
I was in the wild.
Okay, you're right, we did haveAOL, I did have AOL.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
We interviewed a girl who's about 15 years younger
than us, and she was alwaysraised with the internet, so
it's funny to see the difference.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yes, You're right, we're much younger.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I definitely was grounded for being in chats.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I should probably shouldn't sorry mom and dad.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
he's like you're gonna end up on how to catch a
predator.
But yeah, it was.
It was so surreal because I sawmy pictures on these message
boards and the things peoplewould say about me were like she
doesn't even go here and like,uh, but that one guy said that I
think she's a stripper that'sjust pretending to be a student
and I was like I wish I madethat much money, um, but yeah,
(06:52):
they uh.
I got on these message boardsto like defend myself and it's
like I gave her a voice and Iwas like I'm more than just a
picture and yeah, and it justkind of snowballed from there
and then, like I guess a monthafter I got discovered, or a
month and a half after I gotdiscovered, playboy was doing
castings, uh, for the top 10party schools edition at florida
(07:14):
state, and so they found me andthen the week after I shot,
playboy, maxim called and theywere like that's great and how
old were you at this time, I'mlike 22, like what the?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
hell does a 22 year old know how to like handle all
of?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
this amazing we don't that's the problem.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I remember you remember back this is so
embarrassing, but you rememberback when, like on craigslist or
whatever, you find castings forlike someone looking for, like
a model they can take photos ofyes and I fell victim to that
because I was like I want to be.
I want to be a model.
So then you respond to theseCraigslist ads and you end up in
some weird dude's basement yeah, but like you're actually
getting these legitimatepublications reaching out to you
(07:49):
.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And that's the thing is like people will be like do
you regret doing Playboy?
And sometimes I do, but like Irealize you know you can't say I
wish I wouldn't have done that,because if you don't do any of
the things that you did to getyou to where you are, it's like
where do you?
you know you don't, maybe youdon't end up in the same place
(08:10):
you do absolutely right but likeback at the time, playboy was
considered to be like you werebeing as validated as possible
of being a beautiful woman.
Yes, and so I saw this as likeI never seen myself as being
beautiful, like conventionallypretty, and I just gone through
(08:31):
a gnarly breakup and I was likewait till he sees me in this
he's like oh, you like this, I'min that one.
Exactly, exactly.
And look, you know, 22 year oldme really needed that
validation.
You know, 22-year-old me reallyneeded that validation.
42-year-old me is like no girl,we're good.
But yeah, it was a very surrealthing how fast everything
(08:51):
happened, you know.
And then I ended up getting ajob at Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Well, and then you know, sports journalism and
hosting came out of all of that.
How do you think all thatinfluenced that?
Is that something that you hadthought about doing before?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
No, no, I'm going to be honest.
I kind of just wrote the wavewith this.
Do you know what I mean?
It was such a lightning in thebottle experience and I just
took every situation as it cameto me and every opportunity as
it came to me and was like, doesthis propel me forward without
compromising my morals?
You know, because I didexperience backlash from doing
the playboy thing.
You know, I I had this onemeeting at ESPN for a gig and
(09:35):
the guy I met with at like thisreally nice restaurant in New
York, he put my playboy in themiddle of a table and he goes do
you think this is appropriate?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
do you think what you're doing is appropriate.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I said you putting my magazine?
With me naked in the middle ofa public space.
No, I don't think it'sappropriate good for you yeah
girl, I've never been the typethat's ever backed down until
the far thing happened like.
And it was because Iexperienced so much quiet
(10:10):
backlash, um for standing up formyself at espn that I think
when it happened again I wasjust like oh, I must be the
problem you know what I mean and, like it really tapped into
some, some deeper stuff for mewell, we're gonna get into that
with the far stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You know, we saw, you saw everything kind of shift
because of of the scandal, um,and I know to this day that's
such a defining chapter in yourstory completely took your life
in a different uh direction.
But you know people who haveseen the far documentary got to
hear from you, loved hearing youknow you and I have never sat
and talked about it in that youknow, magnitude.
(10:50):
I'm so happy I got to.
I know she watched it as well,but in your own words and you
know things that maybe didn'tmake it into the documentary.
For whatever reason, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Thank you.
It's very weird.
I I had a situation in highschool one time and I it led to
a um restraining order toanother person and my sister.
This is when, like my space wasaround right.
So my sister, who is nine yearsolder than I am, knew what was
going on and knew what was beingsaid like death threats, egging
(13:26):
my parents' house, things likethat and she printed out
everything that was said onMySpace, put it in a binder and
we went to court, just handedthe judge the binder.
The judge opened it, flippedthrough maybe two pages and said
I don't even need to hearanything else, you get your
restraining order.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Like, and if we didn't have that, we would have
had to be going back and forthback and forth.
But yeah, that's why youdocument and you take things in
and you print them and you putthem away.
Or obviously now we have ourphones, but you know, back then
we didn't, so we'd printeverything and yeah, just.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, if anybody's ever trying to get you on the
phone instead of putting it intext Nope, nope, nope, nope,
nope.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
This needs to be in writing and you still have
everything currently.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
God, I think.
It's like I have it in storage,like in a lot, like in a safety
deposit box, and it's like it'slike 15 or 17 binders of stuff,
because wasn't when I had tohand over all my text and my
communications to the NFL.
They wanted everything.
Not just the stuff that appliedto this Right.
It was a total invasion ofprivacy, like it's every social
(14:39):
media message.
It's every text we didn't haveWhatsApp at the time Every email
, every phone call log.
Like they wanted access to avery painful time in my life you
know, because I was not justdealing with the stuff at the
Jets, I was dealing with gettingout of a very abusive
relationship, and having to goback and like reread all those
(15:03):
texts with NFL investigators wasjust such a violating
experience for lack of a betterword and especially when you're
just sitting there with men thatare like, well, prove, you're
not the problem.
I finally was like, hey, ifyou're going to keep talking to
me like I'm the issue, I'm goingto get up, yeah, and I'm going
(15:28):
to leave.
And I said, and then it's justgoing to be three dudes sitting
around looking at a picture ofanother dude's dick.
Right, have fun.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I was like I'm going to step out for a minute.
I'm going to step out for aminute.
I love a Spitfire gym.
I'm going to step out for aminute.
I love a Spitfire gym.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I'm going to step out for a minute and I'm going to
like I'll let you guys figureout what you want to do and how
you want this to proceed, butI'm like this is not how it's
going to go.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yep, and when I came back in they were much different
, but again it's just I probablyexpect you to fold because a
lot of women, especially at thatage, put in that position to
fold because Well, because we'vebeen programmed to be nice, of
course, and disagreeable.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
I don't cause problems, just you know, nod
your head.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yes, being a nice girl has gotten me nowhere but
in trouble.
I'm a good person.
You can be a good person andnot be a nice person.
A nice person lets people walkall over them and doesn't have
boundaries.
A good person is like I haveboundaries but I'm good to
people and that's who I want tobe.
(16:32):
You know and there were justthese glimmers of it during the
whole investigation that whereI'm like, where I finally would
just give up being the nice girland I would finally stand up
for myself and like.
Those are the moments where Ilook back and I'm like I'm proud
.
I'm proud of myself for doingthat Right, because being a nice
girl wasn't going to get meanywhere.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
How did the Netflix documentary come come into play?
Oh, girl.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I got approached by like 10 different.
It must have I lost count aftera while, but it was at least 10
different people and productioncompanies at some point or
another pitched this project tome.
One of them was like a formerproducer for mr beast and I was
like, yeah, no, what are yougonna do like lock us in?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
a.
It's gonna be a game.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You're gonna lock us in an abandoned plane and
they're like get it jets andwe'll put me her and bread farm
in the plane and then have themdo like I was like no no, like
it had to be the right person,of course do you know what I
mean?
it had to be the right person.
Do you know what I mean?
It had to be the right personthat I knew was going to
actually tell my story this time, because I can't tell you how
many times over the past decadejournalists have been like,
(17:34):
don't worry, I'm going to tellyour story.
And it's like no, they're goingto tell the story that services
, whatever their agenda is, andnot your story.
And I think Netflix is theclosest thing.
I don't think it's my entirestory, but I think it's the
closest thing I've had togetting my whole story out there
(17:57):
and hats off to Netflix,because I actually had to do a
reshoot with them, because theysaw the dailies and the edits
from the first interview that Ihad with them, where I sat for
like six hours and they werelike this girl is so compelling
and so man, and like, honestly,was the canary in the coal mine,
(18:24):
you know?
And we ignored her.
Like she warned us who thisperson was and we ignored her.
And so netflix was like wereally want to do another shoot
with her where we show peoplethat she's a credible witness
and that she was just a girltrying to do her job, and so
they came back and they did asecond round of shoots with me
(18:47):
and that's where they reallybrought in some of my
backstories, that peopleunderstood who I was, because I
think up until then I was just apicture to people.
And when you're just a 2Dfigure or I'm sure you can even
relate to this, kayla fromworking for a bigger entity,
your image is so controlled thatthat's all people know of you.
(19:09):
So then when you're like, no,no, I'm actually this 3D person,
this 4D person that's out hereliving in the real world, people
are like you know, it doesn'tnecessarily jive with their
beliefs of you.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
When those private messages became public.
How did that affect youprofessionally and personally?
I think about especially theprofessional side.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I really think about and I fucking like it breaks my
heart thinking about it, becauseI mean working in a place like
wwe as a woman how quickly youcan be covered up and push aside
everything you work for.
They don't use you anymorebecause you didn't do exactly
what they said and I just can'timagine especially with the
trajectory you were on with yourcareer being an on-air
(19:51):
personality.
Do you feel like you losteverything in that regard
because of this?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
You know, one of the things that really stuck with me
is how my situation affectedothers is how my situation
affected others.
Like I had my own televisionshow at the time on NBC Sports
slash.
It was called Versus at thetime, but I had my own TV show
that I was on a panel of, andthe scandal broke at the
beginning of October and by theend of October, our show got
(20:20):
canceled.
And so not only was I out ofwork, but like got canceled.
And so not only was I out ofwork, but like all everyone was
out of work and I had this likedeep burden that I had cost all
of these people their jobs.
And it's not.
And the thing is is I wanted totalk, like I wanted to clear my
name, and I was not allowed to.
I asked my, I asked my network.
(20:41):
I was like, hey, I'll sit downand have an interview with you
guys, I don't care, I havenothing to hide from you guys,
and no one would let me speak.
And so instead I was likerelegated to this side table,
this like Tony Reale-esqueposition, where I was just a
peripheral character instead ofbeing on the main desk with like
(21:02):
my coworkers and that was likekind of their way of phasing me
out.
You know that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I'm getting so mad, um, and going back to you
talking about just how you knowdehumanizing it is and how much
they dehumanized you, um, justwhat people don't know what that
feels like.
Can you expand a little bitabout what that, what that feels
like?
Can you expand a?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
little bit on what that feels like for a person.
I really felt it when I finallywas exposed to look, this is
like back in Twitter's heyday,you know, and you were just not
ready for that.
Many people's not ready for thatmany people's opinions of you
(21:47):
to be shouted at you at fullvolume and especially with
limited facts.
So people are just going off.
Like when you watch thedocumentary they show how
terribly the media covered itand they were like what's her
point in coming out with thisnow?
And it's like I didn't come outwith this.
I was thrust out with this.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
That was frustrating for me to watch from your
perspective.
It's like people are like yeah,why is she?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
is she just trying to like get attention?
She's trying to get attention.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
You were exposed, you trusted somebody and they
fucked you over.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yep, and look, that's the part of this that I take
full accountability for trusting.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I trusted the wrong person.
I trusted the wrong person.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
You look, aj wasn't a model citizen.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Um, and I'd actually had peoplebe like yo.
I don't know why you're workingwith him.
He's dangerous and it's justkind of like I don't know.
I look at it kind of like the,you know, like the whole tale of
like the scorpion and the toad,where, like the scorpion's like
hey, I really need to getacross this river.
(22:52):
You know, and the toad's likebro, you're gonna sting me.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
And he's like no, no, I promise.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
We're good, we're good.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
And then you get halfway across the river and
you're like fuck bro why'd youshoot me?
That's what yeah, that's it I'msure that's exactly how it was
written for sure, write thatstory in jim's voice, my my
fables book is gonna slap, butyeah, it's.
uh, it was very much that youknow where.
It's.
Just like I was warned that hewasn't a good person and in my
(23:23):
eyes, when I talked AJ about it,it honestly felt validating
because I was like, oh, this isthe first time I'm being
believed, because up until thenI had told people what was
happening and they would justsay to me if you want to keep
your job, be quiet, right.
If you want to keep your job,be quiet.
(23:45):
And this was the first timesomeone was like, hey, you know,
what happened to you was wrong,right.
Oh, what a slut.
And it was just the wrongperson.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yes, how did you expect the NFL to react, even
though and I know or respond,and how did their response
actually impact you?
Or is it different to what youexpected?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
versus what actually happened.
Did you expect them to protectyou at all, or did you know?
Because I would?
I would, I guess, at that time.
It's not that I expected themto protect me.
Yes, you expect your job, youhope for the best, you hope your
job to hear you and understandwhat's going on, they find you
important.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
They want to protect you and you're not an NFL player
, but you were an importantasset at the NFL at the time.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Here's the thing With that.
I have this character flawwhere I hope for the best in
people.
You know what I mean.
Where I'm like, even though Iknow they're not like, I just I
(24:55):
just, even though they're notlike they're not perfect beings,
I still hope for the best inpeople.
I hope that people are going todo the right thing.
And when I say the right thing,it's not like the right thing
for business, it's like themorally right thing.
Where I'm like, it's like themorally right thing.
Where I'm like, hey, like,protect the vulnerable.
You know, like, do the rightthing.
And I should have known betterbecause like, and that's one of
(25:19):
the reasons why when I see themlike pushing out all the breast
cancer stuff and I see thempushing out all the pink jerseys
, and I'm like they sodesperately want the support and
the money from women, fromfemale fans.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And the fact of the matter is they've shown us time
and time again that they don'tgive a shit about what happens.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
It's so, it's, it's yeah, it's just, they don't care
.
No, they do no.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
And so that's when I'm like, hey, this is one of
those times where I'm like, ifwomen want to make a difference,
we got to put our money whereour mouth is and not support
these type of things.
You know what I mean.
I haven't really watched a tonof football since I went through
this, you know and that sucksbecause like I love football.
(26:11):
I watch college football alittle bit more because and look
, people can get mad about thatbecause, like you know the whole
um, nil and like athletes beingcompensated, and now it's it's
not as pure of a game now, butit's like, yeah, but those kids
were also being taken advantageof by a shitty system, and I
didn't even ask you if we'reallowed to cuss on the show, so
(26:31):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
No, no, we're good.
I've said fuck like five times.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
But like college football.
You know, back in the daypeople used to be like I like
college football because it's somuch more pure and it's like no
.
That's like no.
That's like where we'reestablishing the rules of how
they're supposed to act whenthey make it Right, and I do
feel like we have to startholding people that want to be
viewed as heroes to higherstandards.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
And that's what I want to get into.
That's a perfect segue to myquestion about freaking Brett
Favre, who was hailed as a herofor how many freaking decades?
Freaking Brett Favre, who washailed as a hero for how many
freaking decades?
And even after his documentaryand beyond the stuff that he did
to you, the other stuff, youknow, scandalous shit that he's
done why do you and people arestill people still refuse to see
him as the person that he is,even after giving all the facts,
(27:22):
all the examples of the shitthat he's done?
Why do you think that somepeople like him can still get
away with being a terrible humanbeing?
Is because people still seethem as this is a hero, like
there's people in WWE who havedone some really messed up
things, but some people refuseto see it because that is their
hero, while people like you facethe consequences of doing
(27:44):
nothing wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I think people have a really hard time holding the
idea that two things can be trueat once.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
And we tell ourselves stories about athletes and
about, you know, celebritiesthat are important to us.
You know what I mean.
Like Brett Favre to someonecould be a favorite memory that
they have with their dad, youknow what I mean.
(28:14):
Or like the people of Green Baythat they show it.
Green Bay was like a place yousent athletes to be punished.
It wasn't considered a winningtown anymore, it was kind of
considered like a banishment,you know, and he gave the people
of Green Bay which, by the way,is, I think, the only team that
(28:35):
is actually owned by the peopleLike they own the majority of
the team.
The team doesn't have a quoteunquote.
Like owner.
That adds another layer to it,and so it's like we're invested
in this, the town is invested inthis, you know um.
And so I think he justrepresents something to them
that's like so much bigger thanhim as a person.
(28:57):
And so to have to like,reconcile, like oh, this thing
that I've placed on thispedestal is not necessarily the
person I thought they were, theyjust can't, their brain just
can't hold those two truths atthe same time, you know Right.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
They have to pick.
They have to pick one or theother Like.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I literally just got a DM from somebody, like right
before I walked in here, um, andI had called the guy out, um,
cause he goes.
You're disgusting talking shitabout someone who has
Parkinson's, oh my God.
And I wrote back.
I said you know what'sdisgusting Stealing welfare
money, then saying theyshouldn't have, let me steal it.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
High five.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Oh my gosh and he wrote me back and he says I
wanted to apologize to you.
I was just frustrated becausehe was my hero when I was a kid
and you didn't deserve how Ispoke to you and you didn't
deserve any of this and I hopeyou can forgive me and I will
try to be a better person movingforward.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Wow, wow.
That never happens.
That's amazing, that like heactually at least.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
He probably didn't expect you to see it, didn't
expect you to respond to it.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
My favorite thing to do to trolls is to go.
What were you trying to?
It's to get curious, I go.
What were you trying toaccomplish by saying something
that disgusting to a stranger,but you have no idea who they
are.
What were?
Speaker 3 (30:13):
you trying to accomplish, get curious.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Don't get combative, get curious and be like what's
the end goal here for you?
Because so often it's becauseyou're triggering something in
them, right?
And when you ask them, hey,what's that about?
They go uh, uh, uh, I don'tknow, yep.
And then they're like oh, it'sabout some shit that I have
(30:36):
unresolved with something thathappened to me, and blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And I'm like I love being thatpivotal moment in someone's life
that's true when you're likehey, I'm going to force you to
go inward and look at some stuffat yourself that you don't like
right now.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
You probably changed that family dinner for the week
that's right.
You have some new things tocontribute.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Thank you and I think honestly, the message that we
(33:02):
can both gain from this is don't.
Why are you on myspace?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Right like nothing, good happens on my nothing good
okay, we top 12, top six, topeight like this is brutal trauma
.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
This is why we have trauma.
We were brutal, we had wesomething would happen at school
and we would go home and we'dbe like becky's, not in my topic
anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I always knew when someone was on a breakup because
their away message was likesomething some poem and you're
like, oh, Tommy and Jen broke uptoday.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
You know it's like it was that that
Speaker 3 (33:33):
the mental of it all, you know, was insane.
I mean, what, what?
What impact do you think thatexperience had for you when it
came to both that that time andthose years since?
And also like how do youcontinue to heal from that Cause
?
This, I know healing is.
It's a non-ending journey.
Right, we're always going tocontinue to heal.
We're always going to havethose moments that pop up of
(33:56):
trauma, and how do you workthrough those Cause?
(40:08):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank
you, you, yeah, I mean, do youdo you think that the, you know,
sports and entertainmentindustries have improved when it
comes to handling harassment,or do you think it's?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
the same old story?
I think it's the same old storyI think, it's the same old
story and I think they, but Ithink they try to put lipstick
on it by going but look, we havewomen in positions of power,
right?
And and they're gonna, they'regonna make sure that things are
done right around here for otherwomen and it's like no those
are the pick me's.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
That's funny to watch .
It's so funny to watch up closetoo, because it's so
transparent yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
You see it every time Pick me's exist in
professionals, but when thosewomen do try to help us out.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
All of a sudden they're no longer in office,
Right.
So weird how that happens.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
The ones, the ones that I I know in a situation,
the the one that was alwayssnitching on everybody, making
sure other people got in trouble, always going to the boss.
Now she's the boss.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, makes sense isn't that amazing how that
happens?
Yeah, it's like are we?
Y'all think we're stupid?
Speaker 3 (40:59):
now she's the head honcho.
The other boss is retired,probably hates her life, goes
home, pops a bunch of pills andchugs it with some vodka and
goes about hating herself.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I feel like we're tapping into some shit, let me
readdress myself real quick.
Okay, I want to get back intocomedy.
I want to know when thattransition happened Like I feel
like a lot of funny people Imean I think I'm kind of funny,
but it kind of stems from trauma.
Yeah, I know that's likegrowing up the way I grew up
(41:48):
no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Think barstools had so much success is because they
they don't take themselves tooseriously, right, and they're
fun.
They just feel like, whetheryou agree with like all of their
principles or not, they'restill dudes that like you'd sit
at a bar with and have a goodtime.
You know what I mean?
And that's the thing is.
I just I feel like sports havejust always taken themselves too
(42:13):
seriously, and so when peopleare like, would you go back to
sports?
And it's like that's likeasking me if I'd go back to my
most abusive boyfriend.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Right, I'm like no, no, absolutely not.
She's grown.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
What's what's been the most rewarding part of
performing stand-up.
It's a really great way toprocess things that I am dealing
with in a way that createsconnection with an audience.
You know, like for the longesttime I did not talk about the
(42:51):
Favre stuff on stage because itjust felt like it was so
unrelatable.
You know what I mean, andstand-up's all about relation
and connection, and I was justlike there's no way anyone will
ever be able to sympathize orrelate to what I went through,
and with the documentary comingout, my DMs have shown me
(43:14):
otherwise where I'm like oh,this meant a lot to a lot of
people, not just me.
It meant a lot to other peopleto see someone that was going
through something similarfinally get the chance to tell
their story, and so for me,stand up is just a way of doing
that, and that also involvescomedy, because comedy is so
(43:36):
healing.
Being able to laugh, being ableto finally laugh about
something, is so healing, sohealing.
And one of the things that Itackle when I talk about it on
stage is the concept of thenumber of women that stepped on
(44:01):
my neck to get what they wantedwhen the most terrible thing
happened to me, where they sawmy downfall as a chance to step
over me as an opportunity I knowa few of those too, to step
over me and claim it to stepover me and claim it, and so I'm
(44:23):
using my voice on stage toagain remind people that you
don't have to do that.
And again, just call out theinjustices, but do it in a way
that's funny and poignant.
I think the people that are thebest at comedy are the ones
that are willing to say whateveryone else in the room has
like thought or felt, but neverhad the balls to say because it
might not be the popular opinion.
Right, you know?
(44:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (44:44):
have you had any of those people who stepped on your
neck or were terrible to youwhen all this was happening and
didn't believe you and were onyour side and I'll see
everything come to light andreach out like, hey, I'm, I'm
really sorry?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
No, no, no.
But you know what?
I don't need them to.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Of course you don't.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
You don't need them to.
And here's the thing, kayla.
It says so much more that theyhaven't done the work on
themselves to know that theywere in the wrong.
Do you know what I mean?
Of course, and the only timeanyone ever makes an apology is
when you like.
If the only time someoneapologizes when you publicly
hold them over the coals, that'snot an apology.
(45:23):
No, that's saving face.
That's saving face.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
So I'm like, yes, I do.
I mean I think you'd rather getlike a call like Jen Hay.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Even a text or just something like a hey, Not over a
social platform, Someone whoposts, like I just saw, like
that's obviously for their ownpersonal gain, Like look at me,
I've grown so much Also.
Clout, clout, clout, clout.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, who wants clout from this?
This is not fun.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
But people will use it People will use it oh.
I know People love to use it.
You know people love takingsomeone else's story and making
it about at the time when allthis, when all the farve stuff,
actually happened.
The one that was like thereally messed up relationship.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
He like went on his show and he was like yeah, we
lived this.
And I was like we, we where we?
What I was like?
Plus, I checked, you werecheating on me with brooke hogan
that's when you know my lifecomes full circle.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (46:14):
oh my god, where you're.
Just like brooke hogan, youknow um god and then you mean oh
my God, where you're just likewe're going.
You know God, people and then,you end up working in wrestling
later and you're like wow, Allthese six degrees of.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
I know, wow, what do they call it?
The invisible string theory.
But actually not in theromantic sense.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
No, but I just thought it was so crazy that the
people that took the I canalways tell when someone because
they'll make the story aboutthat Like oh yeah, I remember
that this happened because I wasdoing this and it's like you
weren't like this did not impactyour life, no, like you went on
and nothing happened to you.
This brought my life to ascreeching halt and I had to
(46:52):
rebuild everything, everything,rebuild everything.
And it's crazy because now, Ithink, people are way less
likely to underestimate mebecause I'm like I think the
most dangerous woman, is the onewith nothing to lose, and I've
built my career now where peoplecan't take it from me because
(47:13):
and that's what you have to do Ithink so many people, when they
work for like bigger companies,like, like you know, these,
these networks and entertainmentcompanies, they think that they
get accustomed to like gettingtheir role handed to them and
they don't realize, like whenyou leave, it's like you're
going to have to create a wholelife for yourself, but it's
going to be a grind and you haveto be willing to put that work
(47:36):
in and create those avenues foryourself to get seen, to get
noticed, and then opportunitiescan come to you.
But I feel like there'ssomething so much more powerful
about maintaining your own likeflexibility.
I guess is like a good way, orlike being able to like pick and
choose what opportunities workfor you because you're your own
boss, right, like that's just somuch more fulfilling to me Amen
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I know you haven't spoken to Favre.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Never.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I just wonder if you're going to, out of my own
curiosity, any feedback thathe's going to trickle down to
you of what he thought about,because he probably thought this
was going to go away.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
This has been many years since all this happened,
I've never come out, ever again.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Netflix documentary.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
We're talking Netflix , we.
And then bam, netflixdocumentary.
We're talking Netflix.
We're not talking about MrBeast producer show.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I know there was an email that was sent that was
like I can't believe you guysare making this and if so-and-so
was in charge, this would havenever happened.
And it's like yeah, buddy,guess what?
So-and-so's not in chargeanymore, right, and this is
called accountability, exactlythis is called your time to take
(48:42):
it.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah, people can go through life and just yeah, and
that's what hopefully we'regoing to see more in just the
world overall in business andcorporations.
Account of fucking ability.
Get some t-shirts, put it upright now.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
The really cool, literally is, is if you sit back
long enough, I really feel likethese type of people, the ones
that like take advantage ofsystems of power, eventually
they start to eat each otheryeah and it's kind of like that
scene in mean Girls where ReginaGeorge throws all of her papers
(49:18):
up into the sky where you justsit there and you watch them,
they'll eat themselves.
Yes, do you know?
Speaker 1 (49:24):
what I mean.
Look what's happening in WWEright now.
The people at the top who aregetting?
They're all eating each other.
Oh, I haven't been payingattention.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
I'm allowed to talk.
I think I signed somethingwhere I can't talk about
publicly but, you know, but goto Twitter.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
You'll see what's happening.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
But that's the thing is, and I think one of the
things that I I again when Iworked in wrestling.
I think the thing that becomesabundantly clear to you is, like
that independent contractorstatus is just such a tightrope
(49:58):
because and I'm one of thosepeople that in any industry I've
worked in, because, like, it'snot just sports and it's not
just wrestling and it's not justentertainment If you're going
to call me an independentcontractor and you're not going
to give me the rights of someonethat works for this company,
like an employee status whereyou're going to help me pay for
my health care, you're going totake care of me, et cetera, et
(50:20):
cetera, you're going to help meplan my retirement If you're not
going to give me any of thosethree things, you don't fucking
own me.
And I think that that'ssomething like I really wish and
(50:41):
it's going to take again.
It's going to take people notbeing scabs, but it's going to
like to create a union for thesetypes of things.
But I really do think that it's.
It's going to be this one daywhere people look at all of the
people that used to wrestle,that can barely move or that end
up losing their lives becausethey get addicted to pain pills
Like it's going to take themgoing.
We don't want to end up likethat.
And we want to make sure thepeople coming up behind us don't
want to end up like that, andwe have to do something, and the
(51:02):
only reason that that hasn'thappened so far is because
there's always someone that'swilling to go.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
I'll do it.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
I'll do it.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Well, I'll do it and I'm like those are the people
that are screwing it up foreverybody, because if everyone
said no again, it's like votewith your money, vote with your
money.
Band together there's safety innumbers, like I truly believe
in that stuff when it comes tobeing an independent contractor
we can hope for those things.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
What message do you want to send to other women who
have experienced harassment,especially in a male dominated
industries like sports andentertainment, like what's
something that you want to leavefor them?
Speaker 2 (51:43):
That what happened to them mattered, that their
stories matter.
There was a pivotal momentduring the FARVE stuff that like
now I look back and I go, oh,that moment was much bigger than
I gave it significance for atthe time.
And I got approached with likea lot of different business
(52:06):
stuff when the Favre thing washappening because everybody was
like, will she talk, will shenot talk, you know?
But I got approached by NormMacDonald.
You know a comedian, normMacDonald, legend Norm MacDonald
, because he had a sports showat the time on comedy central
and he was like, hey, I want todo this sketch about old dudes
(52:28):
trying to text younger women andjust how bad we are at it.
And he pitched me thisdelightfully, norm idea.
Like you know, that was just solike Norm MacDonald, in its tone
, quirky and dark, and you know.
But at the time I went, when Itook it to my management team
and my lawyers, they were likeyou can't do this.
(52:49):
If you do this, no one willtake you seriously as a victim.
And I was like they alreadydon't.
Yeah, but obviously I went backto norm and I was like, hey,
they're saying no, I'm reallysorry, because this is something
like you.
You've been an idol of mine fora long time and you know, like
I'm just, I'm just honored toeven be able to have a
(53:10):
conversation with you.
And he said, Chen, you know, Iunderstand entirely, like your
team's position on this, but hegoes.
But I just I feel for you, kid,he goes, you're just, you're in
a real shit situation right now.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
He's like.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
But if I can give you any advice, he goes the sooner
you can own this, the sooner youcan own this and make something
from it.
No one will be able to hurt youwith it anymore.
He goes.
And that's when you take yourstory back and I truly think,
like when I think back on, likepivotal moments, it was that
(53:51):
conversation that was like, oh,it really lit the path to comedy
for me.
It lit the path to comedy forme.
It showed me that, like thatwas the one place I was gonna be
able to tell my story in itsentirety and all the pieces that
affected me, where it wasn'tjust about being a victim, it
(54:12):
was about persevering andcreating something really cool
and memorable and impactful withit.
And that's what I try to dowith my comedy and that's what I
try to help other women do, andthat's like it's my main goal
in comedy now for real is tomake sure that women know their
stories matter.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
And to own them.
Don't let anybody else own them.
No.
Speaker 3 (54:35):
Ah Jen.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
I'm so proud of you.
I really am.
I'm so lucky to know you andI'm excited.
Listen, you're such a badass.
It could be on the show anytime.
Seriously, we could probablytalk for another three hours.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Yeah, no, we literally have four minutes.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
So yeah, to wrap this one up, but no, seriously.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
I appreciate you sharing more of your story and
girl, look, I'm proud of youbecause it is so easy to stay in
a system, you know.
But it's quite another thing tolike go out on a limb and bet
on yourself Yep, you know what Imean, because it's not easy.
And there's so many minuteswhere you're like, what am I
(55:14):
doing and did I make the wrongchoice?
And there's so many minuteswhere you're like what am I
doing and did I make the wrongchoice?
And if I can just be like that,like lighthouse for you,
because I know sometimes you'relike I've seen you on social
where you're like I don't knowabout this.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
If.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
I can just be that lighthouse for you, like it's
going to happen, thank you.
You know what I mean.
Like you've created an awesomething here and this is just the
beginning, you know.
It's just um being able to likestand in your power and own all
of it.
That, like that's like theauthenticity is the thing that's
(55:47):
going to take you the furthest,and I'm just so proud of you as
a friend.
Speaker 3 (55:51):
I'm on my moon cycle right now.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
So I'm like emotional over here and you just yeah
your, your strength, um it just.
Speaker 3 (55:59):
It shows so much, and I know so many women are having
their mind changed by yourexperience, and so thank you for
being open and just wanting tohelp other women.
You really are truly a girl'sgirl and and you, your money is
where your mouth is, and we seethat and everyone sees that.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Watch a girl.
Don't look for the girl.
That's like I am a girl's girl.
Look at the girl that walks,that walk you know what I mean
but yeah, thank you so much forhaving me guys thank you for
being here if anyone wants tocome and see you live.
You can go to my Instagram mylink in bio.
It has a place that you cansign up to get tour
(56:40):
notifications.
That's like the number oneplace that you can find me,
because it, honestly, it helpsshow me where people want to see
me, right, so I can plan a moreeffective tour literally
thought you said linkedin bio.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
I'm like people are doing that.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
Now you're putting your tour dates on linkedin no,
no, no, there's a link in my bio, but also you should, but yeah
that's the number one thing I'masking people to do is please
sign up to see me um tour,because comedy comedy has
completely saved my life and Iknow like I got my first like
true standing ovation the otherday in la jolla talking about
(57:13):
this new stuff, and I'm just Iknow I'm on to something special
, yes, but also it was crazybecause I just I'm so bad with
social cues.
I thought people were gettingup to leave really fast, so I
was like walking off the stageand this lady was like no, no,
no, jen, they're standing foryou and I was like, oh my gosh,
maybe this could turn into aspecial.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
My bad guys.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
No, I do feel like the stuff that people are going
to watch me put up on stage inthe next six to eight months is
going to end up being my special.
So please come out and see me.
I also have a podcast with mybuddy, eddie, called Not Today.
As in not today Satan and wetalk about all kinds of like
mental health stuff and justlike the experiences we all go
through and I truly love doingthat with, like my best friend
(57:58):
yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Well, thank you so much, and thank you guys always
for watching and joining us forthese important conversations
with people that we love.
Make sure you guys come backevery single Monday.
Thanks again, jen, and we'llsee you next time.
Thanks, ladies, see ya.
Popular Podcasts
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.