October 27, 2025 • 43 mins
After years in fashion, Shuang-Min walked away from a life many would envy — designer labels, business-class travel, and success by every external measure — to redefine what fulfillment truly means. In this episode, she shares how fame, fortune, and being true to yourself don’t have to be mutually exclusive, why it’s worth asking “What’s the cost of not doing this?”, and how self-reflection can unlock the clarity to evolve on your own terms.
If you’ve ever wondered whether the life you’re living is truly yours, this conversation is the reminder you need.
About Shuang-Min Chang
Shuang-Min is a holistic success activator, intuitive healer, and founder of Legacy of Love, a coaching philosophy rooted in aligning high-achievers with their deeper purpose. Born and raised in Taiwan, she spent over a decade leading luxury fashion divisions in Mumbai, Milan and Shanghai before walking away from the corporate ladder. During a personal crisis of achievement and identity, she recognised that fulfilment isn't just about fame or fortune—it’s about being true to yourself. Today, she guides leaders and creatives to redefine success through empathy, reflection and abundant living.
You can connect with her on Instagram shuangmin, her website shuangminchang.com and email at: smc@shuangminchang.com
Mind Blend is all about real experiences and meaningful conversations—through sharing these insights, I hope to inspire and empower you as you navigate your unique journey.
I’d also love to hear from you! What resonated with you today? What topics or guests should we feature next? Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on LinkedIn @ karenkchong and @Mind-Blend
Follow Mind Blend to get notified when new episodes are released!
Until next time, stay curious, keep exploring, and let’s continue to blend our minds and discover what’s possible.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So I did went through that journey of really looking into
all my stories and make a conscious decision, like from
this point onward, how I want itto influence me.
So whatever we can happen to us and a lot of things, it's not in
our control. And the only thing that's in our
(00:20):
control is how we experience it and how we come out of it.
Yeah. Like what you choose to take
away from it and how you choose to be.
There's a lot of the times the outcome is the same, but how you
feel inside is is as good or as bad you make it to be.
Welcome to the show Mind Blend. I'm your host, Karen Chong, and
(00:43):
I'll be diving into the minds ofincredible people, each an
expert in their very own way. Together we'll uncover insights
and share ideas so you can be inspired and empowered to
navigate your own unique journeyin life.
Ready to get curious and discover what's possible?
Let's blend. So I just finished a book called
(01:04):
Blue Sisters by Coco Mellos. It's about.
Without giving too much away, the story revolves around four
sisters and each has their problem of their own.
And then there was 1 scene wherethe mom said look at you, you're
OK, better than OK, you have a great career, a big house.
(01:27):
Bonnie is a world champion for Christ's sake and lucky she's
been on billboards all over the world.
How bad of a job could we have done if you all end up like
this? A little did.
She know they're definitely not OK.
So today I'm joined by Shuang Min Chung, someone who has lived
that kind of successful life, and it's now helping others to
(01:49):
be successful in a way that truly matters.
Hi Charming. Hello Karen, Thank you for
having me here. Welcome to mine plan.
Thank you for coming today. So I have alluded to this
already in the intro. Charming has lived a very
successful life. Not to say that she's not
successful now, but can you tellus a little bit about that
(02:11):
successful life, your previous successful life?
Yeah. So I, I, I was in corporate for
like around 15 years. So I built my career, my last
career, my one and only career in fashion retail.
So I used to work for premium brands and I was in in
merchandising at the last years of my career.
(02:36):
I was in charge of China for four departments for a premium
French luxury fashion brand and I build my career from ground
up. So I went to Italy, I study, I
have a degree there. I started as intern.
I used to work for Gucci in the headquarter and then I work for
Gucci in China and then transit into my last company.
(03:00):
So my lifestyle was I earn much more than average.
And so my lifestyle is like quite international because I
travel between China and Europe a lot.
I travel a lot also domesticallyin China since we have stores
all over the country. So I get to eat food and fly
(03:21):
business budget. And then like whenever I was in
Milan or Forest or Paris, there was always shopping involved.
And then I have, I have little time for vacations, but I'm just
every time for vacations, I got to choose, you know, where I
want to go for activity I want to do without worrying too much.
(03:42):
So I would say that there was a pretty good life.
And the people I am hanging out with, stealing or dealing with,
usually people in this kind of society, more or less.
Yeah. Is.
It like how movies portray it like fashion shows free flowing
champagne so that. Was actually very, very small
(04:07):
part that people that's well known for people.
But in the end of day is a business, you know, in the end
in the day that business wants to make money.
So there are a lot of the back end things that people don't see
like I stay with fresh more thanI stay with products and I am
doing strategies much more than I trying on new outfits.
(04:30):
OK. And I was in a boring much more
than a fashion. See, that's something that
people don't know when they think fashion, luxury fashion,
this is what they think about. So that sounded very good.
And we know that's not what you're doing right now anymore.
(04:51):
What happened? I just sense that Korea came to
an end. I, I still love it.
You know, the way I talk about it, I think you can sense like
my passion when I was in it, butI outgrew that structure because
the way the whole industry and many industry structured, I
(05:14):
outgrew it. And I also have my own pursuit
in life other than Korea. And at some point I knew that
Korea will give me more fantastic lifestyle for sure,
but it won't give me the opportunity or time or space to
explore what I wanted to explore.
And one of them is quite practical was surfing.
(05:36):
I like, I want to surf and surfing is kind of is the kind
of activity you need to do constantly to learn.
It's like the gym, you know, youwant to train your muscle.
You need to show up in a trip atleast regular enough.
Surfing is the same, but surfingcannot be indoor.
It has to be in a certain environment.
It's it's kind of like really picky and tricky and working in
(06:00):
that corporate life would never gave me that.
So I had that. That was just one part there
many part like spiritual part, emotional part that it's all
there. I just outgrew it and I have
other pursuits that I no longer want to put on hold.
Do you remember what the turningpoint was like?
I'm sure there's a moment that you made the decision.
(06:22):
Right at some point I knew that part.
That career wouldn't last for life for me because when I got
into fashion, I have a goal. So when I almost knew I am very
close to that goal. I am someone I need challenge
(06:42):
and I always need a vision to goforward.
I'm a very forward into the future kind of person.
So whenever, like so when I was very close to that career goal,
I asked myself, So what do I want in this profession?
I like. Abroad as nothing really excites
(07:03):
me, yeah, I mean like of course,like I can say I'm going to I
mean for higher title or I mean for CEO I'm aiming for you know,
like bigger job scope for me that's actually the same I'm
sorry to say that CE OS, but like for me it's essentially the
same because I'm doing the same business.
I'm just dealing, dealing different scope.
(07:23):
And also I consider, yes, I willhave much more money most
likely. I also need my time will be even
more demanded by others. And I started asking myself that
is that the kind of trade that Iwould like to make?
I mean in in corporate or in life, we are always making
(07:45):
trades like we trade our time for something, even we are doing
something that we love, we are still trading our time to do the
thing that we love. So we are always trading.
So I'm very conscious with what I'm trading with my life, all my
time, my energy and looking beyond like my fight, the goal I
set when I was 25, there was nothing really getting get me up
(08:09):
anymore. Like there was not a trade I was
no longer willing to make. Yeah, that's really good because
a lot of people, they're just in, they're just in it without
really thinking about anything. And you could have easily just
stayed in the field and like, yes, risen up to be the CEO or
like someone really well paid, you could travel on business
(08:33):
every single day or first class.Yeah, but.
Most, a lot of people don't think about that and it is trade
off. You have a lot of money, but you
have no time for travelling, forexample.
Yeah. So but I'm to put it out there,
it's not that I don't want to travel business anymore, OK.
Like I'm working on my business right now because I want to try
business again, because it's it's like that allow on sale to
(08:56):
be allow ourselves to feel the luxury we want to feel.
It's something that it's up for everyone's to choose.
But how I get that is what I care.
You know, I used to be willing to train in that profession to,
to get that, but then at some point I'm not willing to.
So now I'm moving for another direction.
(09:18):
But that is something that stillI want.
I don't want to, I, I'm very cautious.
I don't want to put the message of if you want to live a
spiritual life, you have to compromise your, your material
enjoyment. I, I don't, I don't believe in
that and I don't agree with in that.
I think that you can have those.I think living this human
experience is a spiritual practice and we get to choose
(09:40):
how we want to do this practice.So, so that's the part I really
want to put it out there becausethey, they are so many, like I
need to give up or something. No, I I don't I'm you're a
champion for giving up anything.Yeah.
And it's great that you clarified that because
essentially that's what people think about.
I'm either, yeah, free as a birdand I've no money, Yeah.
(10:05):
Or just, yeah, be slave driven at a corporate job.
But I our message today is really to pursue things that
allow you to enjoy life without losing yourself, without
forgetting to embrace yourself. Yeah, yeah.
So I'm sure in the very successful career, it was very
(10:29):
demanding. And I think it's a lot of people
nowadays they would have also experienced, you know,
especially nowadays, there's so many layoffs, so people are very
worried about their jobs. So they work extra hard and they
get fewer people because people are laid off, teams are
downsized, so they're even more stressed.
(10:52):
Burnout is the word that I hear a lot of.
And did you have any similar experience when you were in that
career? In, in that career, like first
of all, I am a person really immune to this line of anxiety
(11:14):
because I, I took life as a journey.
So I know I am until the day I die.
I am never meant to stay somewhere permanently.
So if there was one, it was actually interesting.
It just came to mind. I used to tell my team that I
(11:39):
want you all to become so good. You can replace me at any day.
And if, if, if that day happened, I know it's time for
me to go, OK, That that's the way I, I, I, it's this that my
general attitude towards life. So I did experience burnout in
(12:01):
my own version, but not found that anxiety of our being being
replaced. I mean, we live, we live in a
time that like hundreds of new job that we we've never heard
of. It's going to be created
probably next year, right? So thinking the idea that I can
do exactly the same thing for this life.
(12:23):
Basically, it's just a lie we tail ourselves.
It's, it's the, the, the inertiaor the fear of change that is
telling this lie to ourselves. So in instead of, instead of
thinking, instead of spiraling out with that line of thoughts,
(12:44):
I think we'll be more serving toourselves as king.
What do I want to experience nowif not this?
Or what do I want to create now if not this?
It's either. I always say it's either us
(13:05):
direct our evolution or others with direct it.
For us. It's it's just, it's just the
way because the time is moving, the time is moving, the era is
moving and we are all in that. Nobody can be spared.
It's just how we experience the movement.
Yeah, so why not enjoy right now?
(13:26):
And a lot of us are held back bythe past or the future, but
present is the only thing you'reexperiencing really.
Yeah, a very good friend was telling me this.
She told me, like I, I always act like there's nothing
(13:46):
happened before and there's nothing going to happen next.
I think about the future, of course, and I, I am heavily
impacted by my past. But the, I think the difference
is whether we are impacted by the past sub unconsciously or
(14:08):
consciously. I went through the whole process
of, you know, like taking out each individual stories that has
huge impact on me. The, the, the, the positive
impact and the negative impact. And then I look at that, I asked
myself, why am I impacted positive here?
(14:29):
What is the story I'm telling myself?
And why am I impacted here negatively?
Is this this the story? Isn't this me only story I can
and tell me the answer is usually no.
So I did went through that journey of really looking into
all my stories and make a conscious decision like from
this point onward, how I want itto influence me.
(14:54):
So whatever we can happen to us and a lot of things, it's not in
our control. And the only thing that's in our
control is how we experience it and how we come out of it.
Yeah. Like what you choose to take
away from it and how you choose to be.
Yeah, there's a lot of the timesthe outcome is the same, but how
you feel inside is is as good oras bad you make it to be.
(15:18):
Yeah. And it's, it's not even need to
be like, you know, super positive.
Sometimes I, I'm an intuitive and I'm very receptive to all
kinds of energy. So sometimes something will
happen to me. I will feel something that was
no obvious reason and it was nota good feeling.
Sometimes that happened to me. I would just that it you don't
(15:40):
just feel the feeling and then Iwill whisper, you know, I
whisper to my soul, however you want to call it God, the
universe or the conscious unconsciousness.
Like I would say that I am fullyopen to experience this and
usually I will come out of it with a lot of inspiration or
encouragement or new understanding of things.
(16:01):
So it's, it's really, it's, it really doesn't need to be, you
know, a grand lecture or story or take away.
It's just the willingness to choose the experience that to
decide how we want to experienceit and lean into that.
Yeah, self reflecting, it's whatI'm hearing.
(16:21):
Yeah. And you have mentioned there
were different parts of your life that you have reflected.
And then ask yourself, is this how I want to be?
Yeah. Can you share a few of those
moments with us? I had a depression when around
like for around a year, it got really bad.
Like I wanted to kill myself forabout a year when I was 23.
(16:45):
So there was the moment that I in my life, I had to ask like,
is this like, is this like I'm going forward?
I'm going to be like this. And of course, my answer was no.
So I'm sitting here today. And then there was a time when I
was in Italy, I wanted to find apermanent, you know, like Italy
(17:10):
has many, many different kinds of contracts.
So the kind of usual employment contract, you know, clock in,
clock out, not by the hour, but I buy buy salary.
It's a specific kind of contractand I wanted I want to that kind
of contract because that give mestability.
But for a lot of reasons I couldn't get it.
So I was keep. I was put in this vicious circle
(17:33):
of no contract, no money and or no paper and no paper, no
contract, you know, like I was. Put in this circle at.
Some point I need to decide whether this how I want to, how
I wanted to experience life. And then like in China, it's the
same. So like I had a very good
career, but as I share, at some point I I need to rethink like
(17:56):
how what I'm trading, trading inmy time and my energy.
What do I want? You know, that, that career used
to be something that I dream forto a point that I know then
there was no longer the trade I wanted to make.
So and then like, I had this habit of reflecting in a chunk
(18:21):
like every 5 or 10 years. It was something that I, I
picked up because I, I started journaling when I was 13.
So I have a lot to talk with myself, asking myself questions,
asking like the guards, whateverquestions.
So I also have this habit of just reflecting whether this we
(18:43):
talk about trajectory, but it's not just career like if we we
keep moving on the same pattern,we are in the trajectory no
matter whether we are conscious or unconscious.
So I had the habit of asking myself that is this a trajectory
I want to move forward and usually I will get guidance, I
(19:06):
will know the answer. That's the in my heart, no
matter you know, like I would like to share with others or
not, I I would know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, self
reflecting and really honestly asking yourself the questions
and honestly answering yourself is key to really finding clarity
(19:27):
because a lot of the times it's yeah, yes, but like do you want
to do this? Is this really what I do?
Yes, but and then you come up with pages and pages of why I
cannot do that. It's more like I yeah, external
factors, I think a lot of them are.
I think this well, thank you forbringing it up.
(19:48):
It's very interesting that not finding reasons to stop
ourselves, it's actually a trending.
Because we live in a society that actually expect us to
conform. So the society actually gave us
(20:10):
abundant reason behind them. But.
Yeah. But whether we want to choose
the content before the but it's very, very personal.
And sometimes it's very, very lonely, especially if you don't
have a community that everyone is practicing choosing the thing
before, but instead of after. So building community and then
(20:34):
training how our mind work, it'svery important.
If for example, if you had I have something wrong to do, of
course anyone would tell me. But when I told everyone I'm
quitting that job to go surfing,everyone thought I was lying
because I was actually got hiredfor a very, very high up job.
(20:55):
And usually it's confidential. So I couldn't say, you know, and
then and and when I said not some to any other companies.
I'm just really moving to a seaside and serve and they were
what about the bot for me, even I already did the DS.
They will say, but how about money?
But how about like, how can you afford another, you know, make
(21:17):
sure from whatever brand, all those bot will come up.
Remember, whatever we want, theywill always come.
We may take a pause like I took a pause from that career and
then there's a transition that Idon't have that the label of
luxury to splurge when it comes to money.
(21:39):
But it doesn't mean that I feel that I gave up.
You know, I am building myself back into that in a different
way if that's still what I want.So a lot of people will think
that that part because they are trading off.
So when we fall into the tradingoff of giving up or sacrificing,
there's no way back because we already believe that we will not
(22:02):
see an opportunity or possibility to create the same
thing in another way, in a way that we love more.
So so I think that the, the, Thething is that one question that
you can ask yourself that if youchoose the content behind the
But what are you giving up? And in 10 years down the road,
(22:27):
how your life will look like? And are you, are you happy to
live that life? And if you choose the content
before the But how your life will become?
And where will you be 10 years down the road?
And is that the life you are more willing or less willing to
live? I think neither side.
There's no right or wrong. Yeah, absolutely.
(22:49):
That's very important. But in the end of day, are we
happy with ourselves? I think that's important because
I've been, I've been in this place of secretly unhappy,
secretly unfulfilled, and secretly telling myself that I'm
feeling myself no matter how it looks outside, and it was a
(23:09):
terrible place to be. Yeah.
Even I, I decided to go for the one after the butts.
You know, like I went through that part in some point in my
life as well. Life was great.
I had most of the things that people wants at the very, very
early stage before I really enter fashion.
(23:31):
I had those like I got paid liketwice more than my peers.
Yeah. But that that, that thing inside
it's, I may even choose to live with it.
But do you want to? I think this is the most
important question to answer. Yeah.
So, choosing a different path. Have you experienced something
(23:55):
that surprised you? So much.
Let's hear it. So much, yeah.
Like when I went into Italy, of course, like at the end, it
didn't go according to my plan. That's a surprise, even if at
the moment it was a really negative surprise.
(24:15):
But then that experience of really deciding what I want in
my life actually opened me up tomy spiritual path to really
connected with the so-called force of flow or intuition and
going into fashion. Like what?
And then when I went into fashion because I love it so
much, I thought I would do that job for life.
(24:37):
But after like 12 years, I realized to do it anymore and it
brought me to a new whole new understanding about life.
Because if I'm never be an entrepreneur, I was brought up
telling like every adult was telling me, you know, holding on
to a job. It's a rhyme thing to do.
It's a good way to go, you know.My culture is the same thing.
(25:00):
Yeah. So, so he wouldn't, I wouldn't
experience, you know, like different form of business,
different form of life. And I wouldn't nurture myself
finally from my burnout like over a decade because I just
didn't have time, you know, likeincorporate.
I, I re regulate myself already quite consciously because I have
(25:25):
my own full regime. I have my dream regime and I, I
have my own interests. Like I try to balance a lot, but
I don't have that chance of timeto nurture myself.
I'm not saying that everyone needs this.
Like this is my light pass. Yes, like everyone has a light
pass. But without making these
transitions and life, I wouldn'tknow.
(25:47):
Like I used for someone saying that oh I'm a city girl, we
would never move to the country.And then I fall in love with
surfing. So how can I do?
So you said that, like you said before, you were a city girl.
I used to say to everyone, like I used to say to everyone,
because I moved to Bumbai and Milan, like Paris and Shanghai,
you know, like I'd love the citylife.
(26:09):
I love the convenience, you know, like I call a taxi taxis
there. Yeah, I I use the AB the grocery
is at a doorstep. I was like, and I need to try
cleaning because like I have branded stuff and I need to try
cleaning all the time. So how would I want to to move
to the countryside? It just like.
And then there was Fox and and, you know, worms and whatever.
(26:33):
But then like, I fell in love with surfing.
So what can I do? I used to be someone who need to
wear shoes when I was walking onthe ground all the time.
Now if I don't need to wear shoes, I wouldn't.
How did you fall in love with surfing?
After the second-half, probably like in my last 5-6 years of my
corporate career, I took a lot of vacation, well, not a lot of
(26:56):
vacation time to a vacation. What twice a year, like 20 days,
30 days, I always go to the I always go to seaside because
being in the big city and in that pace of business, I need to
rewind, like to be around the. Water.
Me too. And then I saw I yeah, I saw
(27:17):
people surfing at some point. You don't like lying down at the
beach started to feel like boring.
So I thought, well, I can just fire someone who take me to give
it a try. You know, like, it sounds fun.
It sounds super cool. You know, in the movies, all the
certain boy and certain girls and was like this, this image
(27:39):
there. And so I thought I'd try not to
give it a try. And the first time I pop up, I
knew I want to spend some part of my life doing it.
It was just like the connection and, and the magic of being
underwater was standing up. So that that's that's, that's
(28:00):
how I fell in love with. It it's very organic.
And I guess that's how like, yeah, that's how discovering
something that you really have aconnection with, that's how it
works. You just know it.
Yeah, and the mind will never allow us to do some, not never.
(28:20):
OK, The the it's harder for the mind to allow us to do something
new because the job of the mind is to keep us continue surviving
and safe. But if we follow our heart, we
follow our curiosity, we will create more experience for us.
And how do I know? I, I, I usually will receive the
(28:41):
timelines that you seem to know exactly what you like and what
you don't like. That's because I create
experience for myself. And the more experience I
different experience I have, it's like science experiment.
The more data I have, the more Ican understand and I create over
the years, you know, through travelling through, through
(29:03):
different cultures and a lot of things, through conversation
with people, I gave myself a lotof data to understand what
lights me up and what brings me down.
And with more data, I can at some point the, the initiation
(29:24):
will pivot. I can initiate before the
curiosity came to create those experience for myself.
So I feel my curiosity before the curiosity was starved and
needed to express. So this is kind of the really
good benign circle of discovering and creating life
(29:46):
for me. That's a very interesting and
it's almost like a buzzword thatdata-driven people here like.
Take notes of this. Just.
Feelings are data as well, it doesn't have to be numbers.
And I love the way you put it. I mean, like, I won't.
Yeah. So shit.
(30:09):
And I used to be in business. I'm still a very logical person.
I don't use logic to block myself, you know that.
But it's a logic I use. I use my heart to buy my logic.
What to do? Yeah, I relate to what you said
so much because I think a lot ofthe major decisions in my life I
(30:30):
made with my heart, but use my brain to make it feasible.
I don't usually make decisions because it's feasible and then
do it. It's like the opposite of what I
do for day jobs. Like for that job, you should
need them. You need to be feasible.
For anyone who don't know, like project management is my
background, so it needs to be feasible.
(30:50):
Yeah. But yeah, like making decisions
with the heart is I it's something that I wish more
people will consider. Oftentimes we will just jump to
the conclusion of like, being irresponsible.
I'm sure in Asian culture there's a little bit of that
too. Like, what is a good life, good
money, stable family, a house somewhere?
(31:15):
And that's really it. Like people just like the intro,
like what the mom said, you havea big house, you're happy, you
have a successful career, you'rehappy.
But that's not always the case. Yeah.
How do we address that? Because I'm sure we're not the
only ones who face that surrounding.
I yeah, I did have that. So a lot of times even we feel
(31:41):
this discomfort or reluctance oreven suffering when we bide
ourselves with that expectation or that culture is because some
part of us is afraid if we go out and then we need to take the
full responsibility for ourselves.
(32:02):
You know, like what you know with with if let's say if I
follow the path with my family that what they expect me to do
when I was unhappy, I can blame on that.
Yeah. And I I would never need to take
responsibility, but but when I decided that scrap that I'm
going to go out my way and try when I can make it work.
(32:24):
When I was at the bottom of my life, I knew I was responsible.
And so when, when, when, if, if it's someone who it's starting
to fear, it's more like a sufferor really deep in happiness to,
you know, like keep up with thatexpectation or the
(32:45):
responsibility that attachment, but couldn't make a decision to
do whatever the hearts want to the say, put it that way.
Ask yourself honestly, what do Iget out of not taking action?
Like our our mind, like bottom line, our mind will never make a
(33:06):
decision that has no benefit to us because it's primal function
is to keep us alive and survive.So when, when we stay in the
environment or situation, we kept saying that, oh, I'm so
unhappy, I'm so painful, I'm so sad, so on and so forth.
But we also find ourselves not being able to take the action
(33:31):
towards the other side. That means we are still getting
something out of it. Yeah.
So ask ourselves honestly, what do I get out of that?
It's very important. And no matter how nasty the
answer sounds or how unflattering that answer sounds,
(33:51):
we have to face it and ask ourselves that, is this true?
You know what I get out of it? It could be safety.
It could be a lot of things likecan I not create that for
myself? Of course, of course that that
even like even after we made a decision, there are still this
pressure. Like my parents, they never
(34:12):
understood what I do. My parents don't.
So it used to be yeah, yeah, it used to be, it used to be the,
the egg in my heart, you know, like I, I, I, I wanted them to
understand me at some point, of course, I move out of that.
I, I unlock that, but I, I for like in my, all my 20s, it was
(34:32):
there and it caused a lot of conflicts and pain in our
relationship because I chose my past and I was doing well.
But I want the validation from them.
I want the nagging to stop because they, you know, parents
also find something else who make it, you know, like now that
you are, you are professionally successful.
(34:52):
How about marriage? Now you have marriage.
How about children? And then you don't like, how
about your husband's job? Because they can always find.
No, Yeah. But that that is just a
reflection. That was just expression of
their insecurity as well. And whether we can see our own
insecurity or discomfort in their expression.
(35:13):
And to know that there's nothingrelated, you know, it was not a,
it was not a tough effect. It was something within each one
of us as a family and reflectingback to each other.
And someone has to break the loop. 1st.
I when I took my job and decidedto be a coach and then realized
(35:33):
I was intuitive and then I can channel spirit, it freaked me
out because if I if I was in thecorporate my my parents couldn't
understand me. How could I expect them to
understand me in this? And especially you not being
able to Travel Channel the so-called spirits and gods.
It's not exactly something really nice in our culture.
You are someone special like sayme first let me bless some
(35:56):
people have this title. I remember right.
Yeah, so, so, so like my head had a lot of fear telling them.
At the same time, I'm also very conscious.
What kind of relationship shouldI was attempting to create with
my parents? If I am not honest, I would
never be able to expect them to be honest with me.
(36:19):
And if I'm, if I'm not honest, how could they see me?
So at some point, you know, my dad was asking me, so exactly
what did you do? I said like, oh, I, I was like
that. And you know, I kind of hear
thoughts of ghosts, whatever you, you say.
And then I kind of see people's soul or whatever and I
(36:40):
recalibrate their energy and I'mdoing my own spiritual practice
like this, especially what I say.
I didn't expect them to understand because it was just
too out there, but somehow because there was all it was the
very first time I had nothing toshow for because I didn't have a
title, I didn't have a company, I don't have a paycheck.
(37:03):
I had nothing to show for but honesty.
And without me doing anything, my parents attitude towards me
changed. That's good.
When we can own our own energy and our own truth so powerfully,
people around us will change. I, I, I knew about this because
(37:23):
I see it, you know, like in my corporate environment, so on.
And usually family is something like, you know, there was
tension, a lot of complication around there.
So there was a surprise. I just follow my own guidance
with myself, how I want to create a relationship with my
parents. So I want to be transparent.
I want to be honest, you know, Iwant to share.
(37:43):
I want to be, I want to share the good and bad with them so
they, they won't like imagine things on their own.
And somehow that that change. But that anxiety of worrying
about me was kind of gone. You know, I used to make a lot
of money and they will worry about me all the time.
Parents are that's parents. Yeah.
So I back to the original question is that what do you
(38:08):
get? How do we get out of that
attachment so we don't take the action and after we take the
action, there was still some frictions.
I took those friction as a helped to help me to deepen my
understanding whether this is what I want.
It's like it's like it's like a goal.
(38:29):
You know, if if in a company we set up yearly target and easily
we can say, oh, it's longer target.
That means all commitment is really low.
It's the same thing, the same thing as life.
It's it's it's if we can if we look at it as a business, you
have something that you want to act on.
You want to you want to go for, you want to create, but like
(38:50):
someone, no matter how close, say something.
And then if we bird, probably you don't want that thing that
badly either. Yeah.
And you don't like, we don't want that thing that badly.
I mean, like everything come at us.
It's an opportunity to double check how much we want.
And it's a good thing because without challenge, we will not
(39:11):
find faith. So I I look at it like that way.
So some key themes I've been hearing today reflect, be honest
and be comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Yeah, it's really just that like, yeah, with those it won't
be as scary to move forward. So for this last part, I would
(39:33):
like to play a game. OK, so something light hearted
to finish our episode today. OK, what's something that
successful you back then would never have imagined you'd be
doing now? Walking barefoot on the ground.
OK, Yeah. Like anywhere?
Yeah, not just on the beach. If, if I if, if I could, but I
(39:56):
thought it was like on on the road.
It was if it gets too hot, I cannot but like in the house on
the ground, if I could even drive bare feet barefoot because
I don't know how much driving when I was surfing with the
shoes. I feel like it's.
(40:16):
That's fun. The next one?
Yeah, one success rule that you now joyfully break.
A rule being consistent and disciplined, OK.
Being consistent and disciplined, you'll happily
break them. Yeah.
Yeah, I can see why. What's your definition of a day
(40:41):
well spent? I get to do exercise,
meditation, journal, my usually I have one, one must do a day,
so my must do and I do it in theflow.
And if I can do a bit of painting or playing with my
plants, there will be a plus. And then I cook dinner and watch
(41:05):
TV with my sister in the evening.
Yeah, that sounds like a day well spent to me too.
One more. Two more, actually.
If you could go back to when youwere 23 in India, would you do
anything differently? No.
That's like, that's the best answer because if we say, Oh
yes, I wish I didn't do that, that's not so great.
(41:27):
Regret is not a great thing. I love my life right now.
Even now I look back, there are another things probably I could
do better, but but life is not linear.
So with one tiny bit that's different, I will not be here
and I don't know where I will be.
Yeah. So since I love right now, I'm
not going to change anything. Yeah, butterfly effect.
(41:49):
So now I will not, I will not change anything.
I'm glad that was your answer too.
Last one, would you move back toItaly?
No, OK. I mean like if I can really I am
choosing now it's not necessary.I mean, of course, if this
opportunity open up, I can just you know, like Sue face move
(42:10):
there. I don't need to worry about
other things. I would.
But if I need to go through all the process and you know,
research and so on, no. There are so many beautiful
place I haven't been to. Yeah, Yeah.
I think because there are there are two camps of people who like
traveling. One they want to go back to
(42:31):
places they enjoy, the other one, including myself.
I would rather go somewhere new.The me who wanted to immigrate
to Italy, it's not me anymore. I still like like the country.
I still speak a little bit of the language.
I miss the Gelato. And then you know a lot of
(42:51):
culture there, but that connection is not there anymore
because I am a different person.So probably some someday I will
become the new person, but that person want to move to Italy,
but at least not now. Yeah.
Well, thank you for joining us today, Shrawmin.
Thank you for the space today. Yeah, I really enjoyed hearing
(43:14):
all your experience and just allthe lessons that we all can take
away from. Thank you.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Mind One.
If you enjoyed the conversation,don't forget to follow and share
it with anyone who needs to hearit.
And let's keep the conversation going.
Connect with me on LinkedIn or leave me a comment.
(43:36):
Until next time, stay curious, keep exploring, and let's
continue to plan our minds and discover what's possible.
So I did went through that journey of really looking into
all my stories and make a conscious decision, like from
this point onward, how I want itto influence me.
So whatever we can happen to us and a lot of things, it's not in
our control. And the only thing that's in our
(00:20):
control is how we experience it and how we come out of it.
Yeah. Like what you choose to take
away from it and how you choose to be.
There's a lot of the times the outcome is the same, but how you
feel inside is is as good or as bad you make it to be.
Welcome to the show Mind Blend. I'm your host, Karen Chong, and
(00:43):
I'll be diving into the minds ofincredible people, each an
expert in their very own way. Together we'll uncover insights
and share ideas so you can be inspired and empowered to
navigate your own unique journeyin life.
Ready to get curious and discover what's possible?
Let's blend. So I just finished a book called
(01:04):
Blue Sisters by Coco Mellos. It's about.
Without giving too much away, the story revolves around four
sisters and each has their problem of their own.
And then there was 1 scene wherethe mom said look at you, you're
OK, better than OK, you have a great career, a big house.
(01:27):
Bonnie is a world champion for Christ's sake and lucky she's
been on billboards all over the world.
How bad of a job could we have done if you all end up like
this? A little did.
She know they're definitely not OK.
So today I'm joined by Shuang Min Chung, someone who has lived
that kind of successful life, and it's now helping others to
(01:49):
be successful in a way that truly matters.
Hi Charming. Hello Karen, Thank you for
having me here. Welcome to mine plan.
Thank you for coming today. So I have alluded to this
already in the intro. Charming has lived a very
successful life. Not to say that she's not
successful now, but can you tellus a little bit about that
(02:11):
successful life, your previous successful life?
Yeah. So I, I, I was in corporate for
like around 15 years. So I built my career, my last
career, my one and only career in fashion retail.
So I used to work for premium brands and I was in in
merchandising at the last years of my career.
(02:36):
I was in charge of China for four departments for a premium
French luxury fashion brand and I build my career from ground
up. So I went to Italy, I study, I
have a degree there. I started as intern.
I used to work for Gucci in the headquarter and then I work for
Gucci in China and then transit into my last company.
(03:00):
So my lifestyle was I earn much more than average.
And so my lifestyle is like quite international because I
travel between China and Europe a lot.
I travel a lot also domesticallyin China since we have stores
all over the country. So I get to eat food and fly
(03:21):
business budget. And then like whenever I was in
Milan or Forest or Paris, there was always shopping involved.
And then I have, I have little time for vacations, but I'm just
every time for vacations, I got to choose, you know, where I
want to go for activity I want to do without worrying too much.
(03:42):
So I would say that there was a pretty good life.
And the people I am hanging out with, stealing or dealing with,
usually people in this kind of society, more or less.
Yeah. Is.
It like how movies portray it like fashion shows free flowing
champagne so that. Was actually very, very small
(04:07):
part that people that's well known for people.
But in the end of day is a business, you know, in the end
in the day that business wants to make money.
So there are a lot of the back end things that people don't see
like I stay with fresh more thanI stay with products and I am
doing strategies much more than I trying on new outfits.
(04:30):
OK. And I was in a boring much more
than a fashion. See, that's something that
people don't know when they think fashion, luxury fashion,
this is what they think about. So that sounded very good.
And we know that's not what you're doing right now anymore.
(04:51):
What happened? I just sense that Korea came to
an end. I, I still love it.
You know, the way I talk about it, I think you can sense like
my passion when I was in it, butI outgrew that structure because
the way the whole industry and many industry structured, I
(05:14):
outgrew it. And I also have my own pursuit
in life other than Korea. And at some point I knew that
Korea will give me more fantastic lifestyle for sure,
but it won't give me the opportunity or time or space to
explore what I wanted to explore.
And one of them is quite practical was surfing.
(05:36):
I like, I want to surf and surfing is kind of is the kind
of activity you need to do constantly to learn.
It's like the gym, you know, youwant to train your muscle.
You need to show up in a trip atleast regular enough.
Surfing is the same, but surfingcannot be indoor.
It has to be in a certain environment.
It's it's kind of like really picky and tricky and working in
(06:00):
that corporate life would never gave me that.
So I had that. That was just one part there
many part like spiritual part, emotional part that it's all
there. I just outgrew it and I have
other pursuits that I no longer want to put on hold.
Do you remember what the turningpoint was like?
I'm sure there's a moment that you made the decision.
(06:22):
Right at some point I knew that part.
That career wouldn't last for life for me because when I got
into fashion, I have a goal. So when I almost knew I am very
close to that goal. I am someone I need challenge
(06:42):
and I always need a vision to goforward.
I'm a very forward into the future kind of person.
So whenever, like so when I was very close to that career goal,
I asked myself, So what do I want in this profession?
I like. Abroad as nothing really excites
(07:03):
me, yeah, I mean like of course,like I can say I'm going to I
mean for higher title or I mean for CEO I'm aiming for you know,
like bigger job scope for me that's actually the same I'm
sorry to say that CE OS, but like for me it's essentially the
same because I'm doing the same business.
I'm just dealing, dealing different scope.
(07:23):
And also I consider, yes, I willhave much more money most
likely. I also need my time will be even
more demanded by others. And I started asking myself that
is that the kind of trade that Iwould like to make?
I mean in in corporate or in life, we are always making
(07:45):
trades like we trade our time for something, even we are doing
something that we love, we are still trading our time to do the
thing that we love. So we are always trading.
So I'm very conscious with what I'm trading with my life, all my
time, my energy and looking beyond like my fight, the goal I
set when I was 25, there was nothing really getting get me up
(08:09):
anymore. Like there was not a trade I was
no longer willing to make. Yeah, that's really good because
a lot of people, they're just in, they're just in it without
really thinking about anything. And you could have easily just
stayed in the field and like, yes, risen up to be the CEO or
like someone really well paid, you could travel on business
(08:33):
every single day or first class.Yeah, but.
Most, a lot of people don't think about that and it is trade
off. You have a lot of money, but you
have no time for travelling, forexample.
Yeah. So but I'm to put it out there,
it's not that I don't want to travel business anymore, OK.
Like I'm working on my business right now because I want to try
business again, because it's it's like that allow on sale to
(08:56):
be allow ourselves to feel the luxury we want to feel.
It's something that it's up for everyone's to choose.
But how I get that is what I care.
You know, I used to be willing to train in that profession to,
to get that, but then at some point I'm not willing to.
So now I'm moving for another direction.
(09:18):
But that is something that stillI want.
I don't want to, I, I'm very cautious.
I don't want to put the message of if you want to live a
spiritual life, you have to compromise your, your material
enjoyment. I, I don't, I don't believe in
that and I don't agree with in that.
I think that you can have those.I think living this human
experience is a spiritual practice and we get to choose
(09:40):
how we want to do this practice.So, so that's the part I really
want to put it out there becausethey, they are so many, like I
need to give up or something. No, I I don't I'm you're a
champion for giving up anything.Yeah.
And it's great that you clarified that because
essentially that's what people think about.
I'm either, yeah, free as a birdand I've no money, Yeah.
(10:05):
Or just, yeah, be slave driven at a corporate job.
But I our message today is really to pursue things that
allow you to enjoy life without losing yourself, without
forgetting to embrace yourself. Yeah, yeah.
So I'm sure in the very successful career, it was very
(10:29):
demanding. And I think it's a lot of people
nowadays they would have also experienced, you know,
especially nowadays, there's so many layoffs, so people are very
worried about their jobs. So they work extra hard and they
get fewer people because people are laid off, teams are
downsized, so they're even more stressed.
(10:52):
Burnout is the word that I hear a lot of.
And did you have any similar experience when you were in that
career? In, in that career, like first
of all, I am a person really immune to this line of anxiety
(11:14):
because I, I took life as a journey.
So I know I am until the day I die.
I am never meant to stay somewhere permanently.
So if there was one, it was actually interesting.
It just came to mind. I used to tell my team that I
(11:39):
want you all to become so good. You can replace me at any day.
And if, if, if that day happened, I know it's time for
me to go, OK, That that's the way I, I, I, it's this that my
general attitude towards life. So I did experience burnout in
(12:01):
my own version, but not found that anxiety of our being being
replaced. I mean, we live, we live in a
time that like hundreds of new job that we we've never heard
of. It's going to be created
probably next year, right? So thinking the idea that I can
do exactly the same thing for this life.
(12:23):
Basically, it's just a lie we tail ourselves.
It's, it's the, the, the inertiaor the fear of change that is
telling this lie to ourselves. So in instead of, instead of
thinking, instead of spiraling out with that line of thoughts,
(12:44):
I think we'll be more serving toourselves as king.
What do I want to experience nowif not this?
Or what do I want to create now if not this?
It's either. I always say it's either us
(13:05):
direct our evolution or others with direct it.
For us. It's it's just, it's just the
way because the time is moving, the time is moving, the era is
moving and we are all in that. Nobody can be spared.
It's just how we experience the movement.
Yeah, so why not enjoy right now?
(13:26):
And a lot of us are held back bythe past or the future, but
present is the only thing you'reexperiencing really.
Yeah, a very good friend was telling me this.
She told me, like I, I always act like there's nothing
(13:46):
happened before and there's nothing going to happen next.
I think about the future, of course, and I, I am heavily
impacted by my past. But the, I think the difference
is whether we are impacted by the past sub unconsciously or
(14:08):
consciously. I went through the whole process
of, you know, like taking out each individual stories that has
huge impact on me. The, the, the, the positive
impact and the negative impact. And then I look at that, I asked
myself, why am I impacted positive here?
(14:29):
What is the story I'm telling myself?
And why am I impacted here negatively?
Is this this the story? Isn't this me only story I can
and tell me the answer is usually no.
So I did went through that journey of really looking into
all my stories and make a conscious decision like from
this point onward, how I want itto influence me.
(14:54):
So whatever we can happen to us and a lot of things, it's not in
our control. And the only thing that's in our
control is how we experience it and how we come out of it.
Yeah. Like what you choose to take
away from it and how you choose to be.
Yeah, there's a lot of the timesthe outcome is the same, but how
you feel inside is is as good oras bad you make it to be.
(15:18):
Yeah. And it's, it's not even need to
be like, you know, super positive.
Sometimes I, I'm an intuitive and I'm very receptive to all
kinds of energy. So sometimes something will
happen to me. I will feel something that was
no obvious reason and it was nota good feeling.
Sometimes that happened to me. I would just that it you don't
(15:40):
just feel the feeling and then Iwill whisper, you know, I
whisper to my soul, however you want to call it God, the
universe or the conscious unconsciousness.
Like I would say that I am fullyopen to experience this and
usually I will come out of it with a lot of inspiration or
encouragement or new understanding of things.
(16:01):
So it's, it's really, it's, it really doesn't need to be, you
know, a grand lecture or story or take away.
It's just the willingness to choose the experience that to
decide how we want to experienceit and lean into that.
Yeah, self reflecting, it's whatI'm hearing.
(16:21):
Yeah. And you have mentioned there
were different parts of your life that you have reflected.
And then ask yourself, is this how I want to be?
Yeah. Can you share a few of those
moments with us? I had a depression when around
like for around a year, it got really bad.
Like I wanted to kill myself forabout a year when I was 23.
(16:45):
So there was the moment that I in my life, I had to ask like,
is this like, is this like I'm going forward?
I'm going to be like this. And of course, my answer was no.
So I'm sitting here today. And then there was a time when I
was in Italy, I wanted to find apermanent, you know, like Italy
(17:10):
has many, many different kinds of contracts.
So the kind of usual employment contract, you know, clock in,
clock out, not by the hour, but I buy buy salary.
It's a specific kind of contractand I wanted I want to that kind
of contract because that give mestability.
But for a lot of reasons I couldn't get it.
So I was keep. I was put in this vicious circle
(17:33):
of no contract, no money and or no paper and no paper, no
contract, you know, like I was. Put in this circle at.
Some point I need to decide whether this how I want to, how
I wanted to experience life. And then like in China, it's the
same. So like I had a very good
career, but as I share, at some point I I need to rethink like
(17:56):
how what I'm trading, trading inmy time and my energy.
What do I want? You know, that, that career used
to be something that I dream forto a point that I know then
there was no longer the trade I wanted to make.
So and then like, I had this habit of reflecting in a chunk
(18:21):
like every 5 or 10 years. It was something that I, I
picked up because I, I started journaling when I was 13.
So I have a lot to talk with myself, asking myself questions,
asking like the guards, whateverquestions.
So I also have this habit of just reflecting whether this we
(18:43):
talk about trajectory, but it's not just career like if we we
keep moving on the same pattern,we are in the trajectory no
matter whether we are conscious or unconscious.
So I had the habit of asking myself that is this a trajectory
I want to move forward and usually I will get guidance, I
(19:06):
will know the answer. That's the in my heart, no
matter you know, like I would like to share with others or
not, I I would know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, self
reflecting and really honestly asking yourself the questions
and honestly answering yourself is key to really finding clarity
(19:27):
because a lot of the times it's yeah, yes, but like do you want
to do this? Is this really what I do?
Yes, but and then you come up with pages and pages of why I
cannot do that. It's more like I yeah, external
factors, I think a lot of them are.
I think this well, thank you forbringing it up.
(19:48):
It's very interesting that not finding reasons to stop
ourselves, it's actually a trending.
Because we live in a society that actually expect us to
conform. So the society actually gave us
(20:10):
abundant reason behind them. But.
Yeah. But whether we want to choose
the content before the but it's very, very personal.
And sometimes it's very, very lonely, especially if you don't
have a community that everyone is practicing choosing the thing
before, but instead of after. So building community and then
(20:34):
training how our mind work, it'svery important.
If for example, if you had I have something wrong to do, of
course anyone would tell me. But when I told everyone I'm
quitting that job to go surfing,everyone thought I was lying
because I was actually got hiredfor a very, very high up job.
(20:55):
And usually it's confidential. So I couldn't say, you know, and
then and and when I said not some to any other companies.
I'm just really moving to a seaside and serve and they were
what about the bot for me, even I already did the DS.
They will say, but how about money?
But how about like, how can you afford another, you know, make
(21:17):
sure from whatever brand, all those bot will come up.
Remember, whatever we want, theywill always come.
We may take a pause like I took a pause from that career and
then there's a transition that Idon't have that the label of
luxury to splurge when it comes to money.
(21:39):
But it doesn't mean that I feel that I gave up.
You know, I am building myself back into that in a different
way if that's still what I want.So a lot of people will think
that that part because they are trading off.
So when we fall into the tradingoff of giving up or sacrificing,
there's no way back because we already believe that we will not
(22:02):
see an opportunity or possibility to create the same
thing in another way, in a way that we love more.
So so I think that the, the, Thething is that one question that
you can ask yourself that if youchoose the content behind the
But what are you giving up? And in 10 years down the road,
(22:27):
how your life will look like? And are you, are you happy to
live that life? And if you choose the content
before the But how your life will become?
And where will you be 10 years down the road?
And is that the life you are more willing or less willing to
live? I think neither side.
There's no right or wrong. Yeah, absolutely.
(22:49):
That's very important. But in the end of day, are we
happy with ourselves? I think that's important because
I've been, I've been in this place of secretly unhappy,
secretly unfulfilled, and secretly telling myself that I'm
feeling myself no matter how it looks outside, and it was a
(23:09):
terrible place to be. Yeah.
Even I, I decided to go for the one after the butts.
You know, like I went through that part in some point in my
life as well. Life was great.
I had most of the things that people wants at the very, very
early stage before I really enter fashion.
(23:31):
I had those like I got paid liketwice more than my peers.
Yeah. But that that, that thing inside
it's, I may even choose to live with it.
But do you want to? I think this is the most
important question to answer. Yeah.
So, choosing a different path. Have you experienced something
(23:55):
that surprised you? So much.
Let's hear it. So much, yeah.
Like when I went into Italy, of course, like at the end, it
didn't go according to my plan. That's a surprise, even if at
the moment it was a really negative surprise.
(24:15):
But then that experience of really deciding what I want in
my life actually opened me up tomy spiritual path to really
connected with the so-called force of flow or intuition and
going into fashion. Like what?
And then when I went into fashion because I love it so
much, I thought I would do that job for life.
(24:37):
But after like 12 years, I realized to do it anymore and it
brought me to a new whole new understanding about life.
Because if I'm never be an entrepreneur, I was brought up
telling like every adult was telling me, you know, holding on
to a job. It's a rhyme thing to do.
It's a good way to go, you know.My culture is the same thing.
(25:00):
Yeah. So, so he wouldn't, I wouldn't
experience, you know, like different form of business,
different form of life. And I wouldn't nurture myself
finally from my burnout like over a decade because I just
didn't have time, you know, likeincorporate.
I, I re regulate myself already quite consciously because I have
(25:25):
my own full regime. I have my dream regime and I, I
have my own interests. Like I try to balance a lot, but
I don't have that chance of timeto nurture myself.
I'm not saying that everyone needs this.
Like this is my light pass. Yes, like everyone has a light
pass. But without making these
transitions and life, I wouldn'tknow.
(25:47):
Like I used for someone saying that oh I'm a city girl, we
would never move to the country.And then I fall in love with
surfing. So how can I do?
So you said that, like you said before, you were a city girl.
I used to say to everyone, like I used to say to everyone,
because I moved to Bumbai and Milan, like Paris and Shanghai,
you know, like I'd love the citylife.
(26:09):
I love the convenience, you know, like I call a taxi taxis
there. Yeah, I I use the AB the grocery
is at a doorstep. I was like, and I need to try
cleaning because like I have branded stuff and I need to try
cleaning all the time. So how would I want to to move
to the countryside? It just like.
And then there was Fox and and, you know, worms and whatever.
(26:33):
But then like, I fell in love with surfing.
So what can I do? I used to be someone who need to
wear shoes when I was walking onthe ground all the time.
Now if I don't need to wear shoes, I wouldn't.
How did you fall in love with surfing?
After the second-half, probably like in my last 5-6 years of my
corporate career, I took a lot of vacation, well, not a lot of
(26:56):
vacation time to a vacation. What twice a year, like 20 days,
30 days, I always go to the I always go to seaside because
being in the big city and in that pace of business, I need to
rewind, like to be around the. Water.
Me too. And then I saw I yeah, I saw
(27:17):
people surfing at some point. You don't like lying down at the
beach started to feel like boring.
So I thought, well, I can just fire someone who take me to give
it a try. You know, like, it sounds fun.
It sounds super cool. You know, in the movies, all the
certain boy and certain girls and was like this, this image
(27:39):
there. And so I thought I'd try not to
give it a try. And the first time I pop up, I
knew I want to spend some part of my life doing it.
It was just like the connection and, and the magic of being
underwater was standing up. So that that's that's, that's
(28:00):
how I fell in love with. It it's very organic.
And I guess that's how like, yeah, that's how discovering
something that you really have aconnection with, that's how it
works. You just know it.
Yeah, and the mind will never allow us to do some, not never.
(28:20):
OK, The the it's harder for the mind to allow us to do something
new because the job of the mind is to keep us continue surviving
and safe. But if we follow our heart, we
follow our curiosity, we will create more experience for us.
And how do I know? I, I, I usually will receive the
(28:41):
timelines that you seem to know exactly what you like and what
you don't like. That's because I create
experience for myself. And the more experience I
different experience I have, it's like science experiment.
The more data I have, the more Ican understand and I create over
the years, you know, through travelling through, through
(29:03):
different cultures and a lot of things, through conversation
with people, I gave myself a lotof data to understand what
lights me up and what brings me down.
And with more data, I can at some point the, the initiation
(29:24):
will pivot. I can initiate before the
curiosity came to create those experience for myself.
So I feel my curiosity before the curiosity was starved and
needed to express. So this is kind of the really
good benign circle of discovering and creating life
(29:46):
for me. That's a very interesting and
it's almost like a buzzword thatdata-driven people here like.
Take notes of this. Just.
Feelings are data as well, it doesn't have to be numbers.
And I love the way you put it. I mean, like, I won't.
Yeah. So shit.
(30:09):
And I used to be in business. I'm still a very logical person.
I don't use logic to block myself, you know that.
But it's a logic I use. I use my heart to buy my logic.
What to do? Yeah, I relate to what you said
so much because I think a lot ofthe major decisions in my life I
(30:30):
made with my heart, but use my brain to make it feasible.
I don't usually make decisions because it's feasible and then
do it. It's like the opposite of what I
do for day jobs. Like for that job, you should
need them. You need to be feasible.
For anyone who don't know, like project management is my
background, so it needs to be feasible.
(30:50):
Yeah. But yeah, like making decisions
with the heart is I it's something that I wish more
people will consider. Oftentimes we will just jump to
the conclusion of like, being irresponsible.
I'm sure in Asian culture there's a little bit of that
too. Like, what is a good life, good
money, stable family, a house somewhere?
(31:15):
And that's really it. Like people just like the intro,
like what the mom said, you havea big house, you're happy, you
have a successful career, you'rehappy.
But that's not always the case. Yeah.
How do we address that? Because I'm sure we're not the
only ones who face that surrounding.
I yeah, I did have that. So a lot of times even we feel
(31:41):
this discomfort or reluctance oreven suffering when we bide
ourselves with that expectation or that culture is because some
part of us is afraid if we go out and then we need to take the
full responsibility for ourselves.
(32:02):
You know, like what you know with with if let's say if I
follow the path with my family that what they expect me to do
when I was unhappy, I can blame on that.
Yeah. And I I would never need to take
responsibility, but but when I decided that scrap that I'm
going to go out my way and try when I can make it work.
(32:24):
When I was at the bottom of my life, I knew I was responsible.
And so when, when, when, if, if it's someone who it's starting
to fear, it's more like a sufferor really deep in happiness to,
you know, like keep up with thatexpectation or the
(32:45):
responsibility that attachment, but couldn't make a decision to
do whatever the hearts want to the say, put it that way.
Ask yourself honestly, what do Iget out of not taking action?
Like our our mind, like bottom line, our mind will never make a
(33:06):
decision that has no benefit to us because it's primal function
is to keep us alive and survive.So when, when we stay in the
environment or situation, we kept saying that, oh, I'm so
unhappy, I'm so painful, I'm so sad, so on and so forth.
But we also find ourselves not being able to take the action
(33:31):
towards the other side. That means we are still getting
something out of it. Yeah.
So ask ourselves honestly, what do I get out of that?
It's very important. And no matter how nasty the
answer sounds or how unflattering that answer sounds,
(33:51):
we have to face it and ask ourselves that, is this true?
You know what I get out of it? It could be safety.
It could be a lot of things likecan I not create that for
myself? Of course, of course that that
even like even after we made a decision, there are still this
pressure. Like my parents, they never
(34:12):
understood what I do. My parents don't.
So it used to be yeah, yeah, it used to be, it used to be the,
the egg in my heart, you know, like I, I, I, I wanted them to
understand me at some point, of course, I move out of that.
I, I unlock that, but I, I for like in my, all my 20s, it was
(34:32):
there and it caused a lot of conflicts and pain in our
relationship because I chose my past and I was doing well.
But I want the validation from them.
I want the nagging to stop because they, you know, parents
also find something else who make it, you know, like now that
you are, you are professionally successful.
(34:52):
How about marriage? Now you have marriage.
How about children? And then you don't like, how
about your husband's job? Because they can always find.
No, Yeah. But that that is just a
reflection. That was just expression of
their insecurity as well. And whether we can see our own
insecurity or discomfort in their expression.
(35:13):
And to know that there's nothingrelated, you know, it was not a,
it was not a tough effect. It was something within each one
of us as a family and reflectingback to each other.
And someone has to break the loop. 1st.
I when I took my job and decidedto be a coach and then realized
(35:33):
I was intuitive and then I can channel spirit, it freaked me
out because if I if I was in thecorporate my my parents couldn't
understand me. How could I expect them to
understand me in this? And especially you not being
able to Travel Channel the so-called spirits and gods.
It's not exactly something really nice in our culture.
You are someone special like sayme first let me bless some
(35:56):
people have this title. I remember right.
Yeah, so, so, so like my head had a lot of fear telling them.
At the same time, I'm also very conscious.
What kind of relationship shouldI was attempting to create with
my parents? If I am not honest, I would
never be able to expect them to be honest with me.
(36:19):
And if I'm, if I'm not honest, how could they see me?
So at some point, you know, my dad was asking me, so exactly
what did you do? I said like, oh, I, I was like
that. And you know, I kind of hear
thoughts of ghosts, whatever you, you say.
And then I kind of see people's soul or whatever and I
(36:40):
recalibrate their energy and I'mdoing my own spiritual practice
like this, especially what I say.
I didn't expect them to understand because it was just
too out there, but somehow because there was all it was the
very first time I had nothing toshow for because I didn't have a
title, I didn't have a company, I don't have a paycheck.
(37:03):
I had nothing to show for but honesty.
And without me doing anything, my parents attitude towards me
changed. That's good.
When we can own our own energy and our own truth so powerfully,
people around us will change. I, I, I knew about this because
(37:23):
I see it, you know, like in my corporate environment, so on.
And usually family is something like, you know, there was
tension, a lot of complication around there.
So there was a surprise. I just follow my own guidance
with myself, how I want to create a relationship with my
parents. So I want to be transparent.
I want to be honest, you know, Iwant to share.
(37:43):
I want to be, I want to share the good and bad with them so
they, they won't like imagine things on their own.
And somehow that that change. But that anxiety of worrying
about me was kind of gone. You know, I used to make a lot
of money and they will worry about me all the time.
Parents are that's parents. Yeah.
So I back to the original question is that what do you
(38:08):
get? How do we get out of that
attachment so we don't take the action and after we take the
action, there was still some frictions.
I took those friction as a helped to help me to deepen my
understanding whether this is what I want.
It's like it's like it's like a goal.
(38:29):
You know, if if in a company we set up yearly target and easily
we can say, oh, it's longer target.
That means all commitment is really low.
It's the same thing, the same thing as life.
It's it's it's if we can if we look at it as a business, you
have something that you want to act on.
You want to you want to go for, you want to create, but like
(38:50):
someone, no matter how close, say something.
And then if we bird, probably you don't want that thing that
badly either. Yeah.
And you don't like, we don't want that thing that badly.
I mean, like everything come at us.
It's an opportunity to double check how much we want.
And it's a good thing because without challenge, we will not
(39:11):
find faith. So I I look at it like that way.
So some key themes I've been hearing today reflect, be honest
and be comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Yeah, it's really just that like, yeah, with those it won't
be as scary to move forward. So for this last part, I would
(39:33):
like to play a game. OK, so something light hearted
to finish our episode today. OK, what's something that
successful you back then would never have imagined you'd be
doing now? Walking barefoot on the ground.
OK, Yeah. Like anywhere?
Yeah, not just on the beach. If, if I if, if I could, but I
(39:56):
thought it was like on on the road.
It was if it gets too hot, I cannot but like in the house on
the ground, if I could even drive bare feet barefoot because
I don't know how much driving when I was surfing with the
shoes. I feel like it's.
(40:16):
That's fun. The next one?
Yeah, one success rule that you now joyfully break.
A rule being consistent and disciplined, OK.
Being consistent and disciplined, you'll happily
break them. Yeah.
Yeah, I can see why. What's your definition of a day
(40:41):
well spent? I get to do exercise,
meditation, journal, my usually I have one, one must do a day,
so my must do and I do it in theflow.
And if I can do a bit of painting or playing with my
plants, there will be a plus. And then I cook dinner and watch
(41:05):
TV with my sister in the evening.
Yeah, that sounds like a day well spent to me too.
One more. Two more, actually.
If you could go back to when youwere 23 in India, would you do
anything differently? No.
That's like, that's the best answer because if we say, Oh
yes, I wish I didn't do that, that's not so great.
(41:27):
Regret is not a great thing. I love my life right now.
Even now I look back, there are another things probably I could
do better, but but life is not linear.
So with one tiny bit that's different, I will not be here
and I don't know where I will be.
Yeah. So since I love right now, I'm
not going to change anything. Yeah, butterfly effect.
(41:49):
So now I will not, I will not change anything.
I'm glad that was your answer too.
Last one, would you move back toItaly?
No, OK. I mean like if I can really I am
choosing now it's not necessary.I mean, of course, if this
opportunity open up, I can just you know, like Sue face move
(42:10):
there. I don't need to worry about
other things. I would.
But if I need to go through all the process and you know,
research and so on, no. There are so many beautiful
place I haven't been to. Yeah, Yeah.
I think because there are there are two camps of people who like
traveling. One they want to go back to
(42:31):
places they enjoy, the other one, including myself.
I would rather go somewhere new.The me who wanted to immigrate
to Italy, it's not me anymore. I still like like the country.
I still speak a little bit of the language.
I miss the Gelato. And then you know a lot of
(42:51):
culture there, but that connection is not there anymore
because I am a different person.So probably some someday I will
become the new person, but that person want to move to Italy,
but at least not now. Yeah.
Well, thank you for joining us today, Shrawmin.
Thank you for the space today. Yeah, I really enjoyed hearing
(43:14):
all your experience and just allthe lessons that we all can take
away from. Thank you.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Mind One.
If you enjoyed the conversation,don't forget to follow and share
it with anyone who needs to hearit.
And let's keep the conversation going.
Connect with me on LinkedIn or leave me a comment.
(43:36):
Until next time, stay curious, keep exploring, and let's
continue to plan our minds and discover what's possible.
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