December 22, 2025 • 45 mins
How many of us have struggled with the desire to indulge in food then the guilt that comes afterwards?
In this episode, I mind-blend with Sammy Williams to explore intuitive eating, eating disorder recovery, and the long-term impact of diet culture on physical and mental health.
This episode provides a practical perspective on intuitive eating, binge eating recovery, and building a healthy relationship with food, without rigid rules, guilt, or punishment.
About Sammy Williams
After battling and recovering from 20 years of eating disorders, Sammy is now a health coach who aims to empower individuals to achieve optimal body weight and metabolic health, through personalized nutrition coaching, intuitive eating principles, education, bespoke menus and culinary advice to create clarity and dispel confusion.
You can connect with Sammy on https://www.naturalnut.co.uk/, LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.
Mind Blend is all about real experiences and meaningful conversations—through sharing these insights, I hope to inspire and empower you as you navigate your unique journey.
What resonated with you today? What topics or guests should we feature next? Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on LinkedIn @Mind-Blend, Instagram Mindblendpodcast or drop me an email.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
My coach told me that I needed to lose weight, that I was too
fat. Mind, I was just like, OK, so
that's that's a message that I, you know, affected me.
And I actually didn't really realize that that had affected
me until I actually went througha recovery for my eating
disorder. It wasn't really until I
admitted to myself that I neededto change.
(00:21):
Because when other people tell you to change, you're not doing
it for yourself, you're doing itfor them, or you're doing
because you feel guilt or whatever you want to please
others. But actually, you know, the time
that it really made a differenceto me was when I decided that I
didn't want to live with this behaviour anymore, that I'd had
enough of it and I wanted to take steps to help myself.
(00:47):
That was Sammy Williams sharing how a single comment from a
swimming coach became the starting point of her eating
disorder and how she ultimately made the decision to reclaim her
relationship with food. In this episode, Sammy and I
have an honest, deeply personal conversation about eating
disorders, intuitive eating, andwhat it means to build a healthy
(01:08):
relationship with food in a world obsessed with diets and
trends. We also unpacked the critical
difference between mindful eating and restrictive eating.
One supports long term health and the other one keeps people
stuck in a cycle of deprivation and bingeing.
(01:29):
Welcome to the show Mind Blend. I'm your host, Karen Chong, and
I'll be diving into the minds ofincredible people, each an
expert in their very own way. Together we'll uncover insights
and share ideas so you can be inspired and empowered to
navigate your own unique journeyin life.
Ready to get curious and discover what's possible?
(01:50):
Let's blend. So at the time of the recording
is December in 2025 S? What does that mean?
Year end parties, holidays. At this time of the year, in a
lot of cultures, it means a lot of gathering, lot of food,
eating, just enjoying and just taking it easy.
(02:11):
Then comes January and people start making healthy New Year's
resolution. They're going back to the gym
doing dry January to cut out thealcohol that they overdid in the
holidays. So we're going to talk about
exactly that today with my guest, Sammy Williams.
Sammy is an associated registered nutritionist and
founder of Natural Nutrition, educating and empowering people
(02:34):
with the knowledge we all need to sustain health for life.
Hi, Sammy, welcome to MIND Blend.
Hi, Karen, Thank you for having me.
It's good to be here. Yeah, welcome.
And I'm really glad to have thisconversation with you, with
someone also in the UK. Yeah, we're both witnessing the
cold, dark days at the moment. Yeah, yeah, which makes it even
(02:55):
harder. Yeah, it does.
Yeah. Although it is a beautiful day
today, I have to say I went out this morning and it was sunny
and not too cold so. Yeah, yeah, when the sun is out,
the mood lifted. Absolutely, Yeah.
I just got back from a trip in South Africa as well, so coming
back from like spring, so autumn, yeah, a bit challenging.
(03:15):
My body is like confused. It's going, yeah.
Where are we? Yeah, and the season also
effects our attitudes towards food a lot.
We'll dive a lot into that. But before that, I want to hear
your story because I know it's really impactful when you told
me, and it's not always the sameas the life you have right now.
(03:37):
So let's talk about that. Yeah, absolutely.
So I guess it kind of started really my relationship with food
was quite complex when I was younger because I used to be a
competitive swimmer when I was young, like early morning
swimming when I was 8 years old.And obviously, like how you eat
is quite important when you're an athlete as a child, you know,
(03:59):
your body's continually changingand growing and everything.
So it's kind of hard to really know exactly what to eat
sometimes. And that I had an incident in,
in my early sort of swimming years where my coach told me
that I needed to lose weight, that I was too fat.
And you know, as a female learn,like learning, you know, it's
(04:21):
kind of about your body and everything else.
And I was wearing a swimsuit allthe time because I was swimming
constantly, like morning. And it just really created a
disconnection with my body. Actually, I, I started to see my
body in a different way and thatkind of, I guess like triggered
a series of different things happening to me, which led to me
(04:47):
developing an eating disorder inmy like early, well, late teens,
early 20s, around the age of about 19.
And yeah, I just kind of, at thetime, I just kind of thought it
was a normal behaviour because Igrew up, you know, in the UK in
the 90s, there was lots of messaging in the media around
(05:07):
what a female body should look like, like that it should look
very skinny. It was like heroin chic was the
fashion. And, you know, as a young,
impressionable teenager, like, Iinternalized a lot of that
messaging alongside, you know, being constantly on show in my
body, you know, when I was swimming.
And I also did triathlons as well.
(05:28):
And, you know, having lots of people around me and lots of
other girls. And I was always comparing my
body to them and thinking, oh, well, you know, I'm the one that
needs to lose weight because I've been told that, but that
I'm is in a position of power and authority.
So therefore, you know, I, I don't look like that.
So that's what I need to look. Like you said, you like had a
different image of your body. Do you remember what that was?
(05:53):
I think it was just an awarenessof it, awareness of it Like you
don't, you don't look at your body and think there's anything
wrong with it. Yeah, it's just there.
It's just a vessel that you've bought your soul is in and
you're enjoying yourself. And, and I think that comment is
kind of suddenly made me look atmy body in a different way and
(06:13):
think there's something wrong with it.
Like it needs changing. The way it is isn't how it
should be. And I just think in my sort of,
I was only 8 years old when thathappened.
So my young mind, I was just like, OK, so that's, that's a
message that I, you know, affected me.
And I actually didn't really realise that that had affected
me until I actually went througha recovery for my eating
(06:36):
disorder and a lot of work with a therapist.
And, you know, I did a lot of meditation and, you know, I'm
quite a spiritual person. So I, I kind of use other, other
ways to kind of understand like with the root of where this is
coming from. And I'm not saying that that was
the root, but that was definitely a thing that happened
to me, that contributed to how Isaw my body and perceived
(06:58):
myself, having myself for the people.
So you had that eating disorder.When did the light bulb turn on?
When did you realize, oh, there's something wrong?
Yeah, so I guess like quite early on because, well, I was at
university when it really started to kind of manifest
after I left home first time andI I stopped swimming, I stopped
(07:22):
doing triathlons, I stopped doing all the exercise that I've
been doing for the last 10 years.
And I just kind of had enough ofit really.
And I just wanted to like enjoy myself and.
And I lost a lot of weight really quickly because at that
age you do anyway, your body's still changing.
And because I had been very fit,I think, you know, just stopping
exercising, my body just changed.
And people would comment and be like, Oh my God, you look
(07:44):
amazing. Like you're also playing.
And then like, I, you know, I sort of had all these times
where I was feeling, you know, very uncomfortable, my body.
And I would like restrict and then like people would, you
know, say like, why aren't you eating and all this kind of
stuff? And then I would eat in front of
people because I felt like people were watching me.
(08:05):
And then I would. Yeah, just to shut you up.
Yeah, exactly. And pretend because you you
don't want, because it's a secret.
Like you want it to, you want it, you want it to be that.
I wanted to be skinny. Like I didn't want to not be
skinny. So I kind of hid it and it was
my secret. And then I would like purge
sometimes because I get this anxiety about the fact that I
(08:26):
eat and stuff. So, yeah.
And so I guess around that time,you know, my friends were like,
oh, do you know, you need to seea therapist?
And I had a boyfriend at the time and he was like, you know,
I'm worried about you. And, and it was at that point
that I, it became like even moresecret because I, I went to one
therapy session and I was just like, I'm not, I don't want to
(08:46):
do this. So I wasn't ready.
I was very young. I just, I was happy with how I
was. I was just like, I just want to
enjoy myself at least basically.So yeah, even though I kind of
knew it was behaviour that was damaging, I didn't want to
accept that. Yeah.
Did you think if you correct it,you're going to be fat again?
Yeah, that's the fear that is. The fear is like you associate
(09:08):
like, and to be honest, like I was never fat.
Like I've never been fat in my life.
I was like. Wasn't even that.
I wasn't, I was a normal like young, young girl, you know, I
had to like puppy fat, I guess you call it.
But that's a normal thing. And, you know, my body was
changing. I was growing breasts and, you
know, having my period and all those hormones and stuff like
(09:29):
that. And you know, I've never be, I
was big because I've, I've quitetall, you know, I'm like 5 or 8
and I, I was a swimmer. So, you know, it was like you've
got big shoulders and things. You needed the muscle to propel
you. Well, exactly.
But all of these messages like contributed to me feeling like
this discomfort in my body that people were commenting on how I
(09:50):
looked and you know what? I was what I was presenting as a
physical being. And that just kind of then made
me think I need to be different.And so, yeah.
But it wasn't really until I admitted to myself that I needed
to change. Because when other people tell
you to change, you're not doing it for yourself, you're doing it
(10:12):
for them, or you're doing because you feel guilt or
whatever you want to please others.
But actually, you know, the timethat it really made a difference
to me was when I decided that I didn't want to live with this
behaviour anymore. I'd had enough of it and I
wanted to take steps to help myself and that that decision
(10:32):
didn't come to me until I was actually 39.
So I lived with this kind of behaviour in cycles.
It came in cycles for about 20 years of my.
Life. Wow, that's a long time it.
Is a long time and you know, I it wasn't always really bad.
You know, there would be times in my life where I was like
really happy and content and it would that the behaviours would
(10:54):
kind of go away. But then I ever went through a
period of stress in my life or difficult times, that would be
the behaviour that would come back because it was like a, you
know, it was like a familiar friend.
It's, it's a coping mechanism. You know, if I focus on that and
my weight and what I'm eating, Idon't have to think about this
other stuff that's happening that I'm feeling really bad
(11:15):
about, or I don't have to think about an emotion that I'm
feeling like I don't want to feel or whatever it is, you
know, so and it's, yeah, you're just reinforcing that pathway,
that behavioural pathway in yourbrain every time you do it.
So and I, I just kind of thoughtit was normal.
I thought it was what all women did, to be honest with you, for
a long time. I told that anyway, you know, it
(11:36):
was, it was that kind of, you lie to yourself, don't you?
You know, we're brilliant lying to ourselves.
Yeah. Only at that point I decided,
and it was actually during COVIDthat I was living in Bangkok.
I was teaching out there and I was that there was something on
the beat. I was listening to BBC News and
they said something about peoplegaining weight over locked out.
(11:57):
And that just sent me into like massive stress.
I was like, Oh my God, I can't put weight on cycle of like, you
know, being really obsessed witheverything, like exercising all
the time. And it was another coping
mechanism for the situation which we were all in, which was
pretty scary and nobody knew what was going on.
(12:17):
And I thought, I'm just exhausted right by this, this, I
can't keep putting all my energyinto this all the time.
And I just had a moment where I was just like, am I going to
keep doing this for the rest of my life or am I going to change
it? Like I have a choice, like I
don't have doing it. And I decided to seek some help.
And I found it very hard to evensay eating disorder at the
(12:40):
beginning that I felt so uncomfortable about it.
And the therapist just helped meto kind of gradually, yeah,
accept it and open up about it and then understand it and put
new, new thought processes in mymind really, which is how you
make change. And it probably to 2 1/2 years
(13:02):
probably in total to kind of getto a point where I didn't need,
like, therapy to continually be,you know, going through
everything. Yeah.
So, but it's still that, I mean,it's, you know, I still can
notice my brain sometimes, you know, a thought will come to me
and I'm an old. That's an old thought.
(13:25):
What kind of thought would it be?
Something like I guess, Oh God, I haven't like exercised today
or I haven't, you know, I've eaten like a burger.
Oh my God, you know, tomorrow I need to tomorrow I need to eat
less like that type of thing. So but now I'm like, no, my body
(13:45):
needs needed that. Like it felt good.
Like I'm, you know, I treat myself with compassion now and
I, the way I speak to myself is different.
And, you know, I've done, you know, a lot of work and I
started it in 2020. It's been kind of five years now
since I began that process. And there's been many, many
(14:06):
different things that I've done which have changed the way my
brain works in that way. Yeah, I think that's the the
mindset is very important because we I see our
relationship with food, it's very all or nothing in a lot of
circles or in a lot of my friends is very all or nothing.
(14:27):
They go all out, go crazy, eat whatever is in the fridge, and
then they cut everything out or cut this entire group of food
out. Or they eat or not eat for not
the right reason. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. That's very much a behaviour
that comes from diet culture. You know, it's it's and that's
(14:50):
what leads to eating disorders in a lot of people is that binge
restrict mentality that there's like you have to compensate for
overeating by under eating. But actually what I've learned
is that your body has its own mechanisms for that.
Don't have to control it with this body will naturally get you
(15:11):
to eat more if you're hungry andit will naturally get you to eat
less if you're not hungry. And all that doing the binge
restrict cycle does is it actually damages your
metabolism. You're constantly in this like,
you know, overeating, overconsumption and then
underconsumption. And it it really confuses the
(15:32):
body because when you food, yourmetabolic rate gets slower.
When you eat more food, your metabolic rate gets higher.
So actually, if you're constantly in this like yo yoing
all the time, you end up with metabolic dysfunction and you're
more likely to have things like insulin resistance and type 2
diabetes later in life if you'vebeen a chronic Dieter and
(15:53):
actually having it's a form of control, like you feel like
you're more in control if you're.
Doing their diet. Yeah, by doing a diet, exactly.
Yeah. But actually when I work with
clients who have had this kind of issue, what they realise is
actually if they eat just, you know, like regularly and they
(16:13):
eat at the same time every day and they have, you know,
breakfast, lunch and dinner or whatever it is that suits their
body, they actually feel more incontrol because they don't have
this like ravenous hunger that you get from restricting.
Yeah, yeah. It's that that leads to the fear
of weight gain. And so if people can come to a
more balanced place with food and, you know, they don't
(16:36):
overeat because they're not so hungry, need to restrict, which
makes them more hungry. Do you see what I mean?
Actually gives them more control.
They always say that to me, thatI can't believe I feel more in
control now that I'm eating likethis than I used to feel when I
was restricting. Yeah, it's almost like they they
didn't have the control. The food had the control.
Yeah, But it's actually the bodythat has the control because
(17:00):
your body will override this. So, you know, your body is like
driving hunger. If it's, you know, the hormones
in your body will make you hungry.
And the way that that happens isif your cells are like empty,
basically, if you're, you know, if you're, if you're low on your
blood sugar, you know, your hunger hormones increase.
So it makes you more hungry. So you can't override it with
(17:22):
the brain forever. And when you have an eating
disorder, you know, you spend a lot of time feeling very hungry.
And it is a battle of will to belike I have to, I'm not going to
eat. I'm not going to eat.
And you will do anything to avoid that.
And it's not, you know, it's quite.
Difficult. Yeah, I had a very brief moment
(17:44):
of that. It was about, I'd say maybe six
months. So I moved to Japan when I was
in like my late 20s, but things were not very easy.
I had some relationship problem back home.
I remember I think I was, I had a mild eating disorder because
there'll be. So I was restricting partly
because of budget. I didn't want to run out of
(18:05):
money before the end of how longI was supposed to be there.
I remember because I was a person.
I was a sweets person. I love cakes, desserts, and they
have all these beautiful cakes in Japan.
And I remember looking at the cake and I thought, well, if I
eat it, I'm just going to get fat, so might as well not.
(18:26):
So I did think I had about six months of that type of thinking.
And I did lose a lot of weight when my family picked me up at
the airport. My sister said you have just
your head. Like, it's just head.
There's nothing like, you're so skinny.
Like they couldn't really recognize me when I went there.
(18:46):
Yeah. Yeah, but that is, you know, we
we associate food with comfort because we're babies, you know,
we get fed when we're crying. You know, it's a way that we
bond with our mothers, whether we have bottle fed or breastfed.
And you know, it's a pacification like when when
we're upset, we get pacified with food a lot of the time.
So from from the moment of birth, we connect food and
(19:08):
comfort together. So when you're in a situation
where you feel a bit lonely, like you, you know, you were in
a difficult place where you knowyou had relationship issues, you
were living in a country that you weren't from.
And all those things can kind ofmake you feel insecure.
And food is a really easy way tocomfort yourself.
It's almost like a self soothingkind of behavior.
(19:32):
And overeating and under eating are both the same.
The root of it is the same, it'sjust that the behaviour is
different. You know, some people will
overeat to get that feeling of compensation and some people
will under eat to get that feeling of, of compensation.
So still the same, you know, still you're using food as a
(19:52):
control mechanism or a coping mechanism.
It's just that the behaviour around it is different.
So and I would say that most women that I meet.
And then actually as well, but more, more women have had some
sort of issue around food at some point in their lives.
It's common in 20, in your 20s, I think because you're still
(20:12):
finding out who you are. You're maybe not very secure.
You're a bit more like, you know, you're moving around more
and exploring. But it, you know, it can stay
stick around, you know, it can stay with you.
So yeah, I would say that that'sthat's quite a common thing that
I hear actually. And this was the reason why I
wanted to recover properly is because I wanted to be able to
(20:36):
speak to other women about this and say it's not just you Like
there is, you know, millions of women out there probably
experiencing or have experiencedthe same thing.
And well, what I realised is when I was vulnerable about my
issues and I spoke to people openly about it, that enabled
them to also do the same. Oh, like sharing their own
(20:57):
issue. Exactly.
Yeah. And because otherwise you think,
Oh my God, it's just me. Like I'm going through all this
stuff and nobody else understands it.
But as soon as you open up to somebody about it and they go,
Oh my God, I was exactly the same or.
Like it was me. Yeah, exactly.
That's main. So, you know, I found it really
hard to talk about in the beginning, but now I talk about
it all the time, you know, So it's and it's obviously part of
(21:20):
what I do now to help other people.
So yeah, I'm being like free in your mind around food is like
such a liberating thing. Yeah, and now I definitely eat a
lot more than before. Maybe when I was a teenager I
ate a lot, but now I definitely eat a lot more than 10 years
ago. But my weight is not all that
(21:42):
different and I, I actually think I have more tone than 10
years ago. So I think there's something
that we can educate people abouteating properly.
It's not only you're not only eating salad, it's about eating
the right combination of things,making sure you have different
nutrients. So but I am more restrictive
(22:04):
when it comes to don't go overboard.
Like I'll eat sweets, candy, chocolate, whatever.
I just don't eat five pieces in one sitting or I don't eat every
single day. So what do you think the
difference between mindful eating and restrictive eating?
So when I sort of after I'd gonethrough my recovery, I did a
(22:28):
course in intuitive eating to become an intuitive.
And part of that is, you know, mindfulness, like mindful eating
is one of the kind of principlesof intuitive eating.
And, you know, restrictive, the restrictive mindset is you're
not listening to your body. It's a mindset, it's a your
brain. It's try your ego actually
(22:49):
probably is trying to control what your behaviour is.
And it's an illusion, you know, be able to control that is a is
an illusion. And over time, you can't, you
can't continually do that. Whereas mindful eating is
learning to sit with your body, feel your body, feel its signals
(23:13):
and interpret what they mean as well is we live in a in an
environment and a lifestyle now that cuts us off pretty much
from here, you know? I think so.
Yeah, we sit at screens all day and I spent I think I was at my
screen for like 12 hours yesterday.
I just last night I just could not switch my brain off like it
(23:34):
was really. Hard, yeah.
This morning, that's why I went out for a run because I was
like, I need to come back into my body.
I need to feel my body again. And I think, you know, if you're
not in that way of thinking, if you're not aware of it, then you
can end up not being able to feel what your body is telling
you. You know, you're like a very,
(23:55):
very wise Organism. I was like ancestral and ancient
wisdom in it. And we're very cut off from
that. So if we can kind of come back
into our body and start to feel it again, we can listen to its
signals. So hunger, Sir, tiredness,
stress, anger and emotion that, you know, whatever it is that
(24:17):
we're feeling and we can go, OK,yeah.
Because quite often we might be like, I'm hungry.
That's the automatic thing that comes.
But actually, you might not be hungry.
You might be feeling frustrated.You might, you might just be
tired, you know. So if we can kind of distinguish
between what those things are, we're much better at being able
to nourish our bodies in the right way.
(24:38):
And when we're eating, we need to be present with that process
as well. So mindful eating is all about
being present with the process. Sit with the food.
You look at the food, you smell it, you notice what your body is
doing in response to that. You know the question starts
like way before you eat. All.
(24:58):
Your hormones being released, your, you know, saliva is being
produced. There's lots of things going on
in the body before you eat food and you know, and then we sort
of sit down to eat the food and we're watching a screen and
completely mindlessly. Yeah, that happened so many
times when I'm like having a meeting or something.
Yeah, Watching something. Yeah.
So if we can like come back and and respect food for, you know,
(25:24):
the nourishment that it is, rather than it being like a
secondary thing or maybe even a third thing that we just have to
do to kind of keep us going or just, you know, do without
thought. So I'm not saying that every
meal you're going to sit there and have this whole process of
mindful eating because it's not not practical.
But, you know, once a week, giveyourself a meal where you are
(25:46):
sitting with, you know, you can be with other people, but
without conversation, without a phone, without a screen, you
know, just without music, even just completely with the food
and with the process. And, you know, put it in your
mouth, taste it, notice what's happening, like swallow it.
How does it feel inside your body?
Like is this satisfying you or is there something else going on
(26:06):
and you know it? It's can, it can be a really
beautiful process to do that offthe space for that.
And if you do that once a week, it will affect the rest of the
time you eat as well. Yeah, yeah.
Start to go, Oh yeah, OK, I'm really enjoying this or Oh my
God, I'm eating this and not even thinking about it.
And the best way to change your relationship with food is with
awareness, awareness of your behaviours.
(26:29):
Because a lot of the way we eat is conditioning.
And it's conditioning that, you know, we received as children
and young people when we, we hadno choice about who was around
us. And that conditioning is driving
90% of our behaviour all automatic.
We're not even thinking about it.
So bringing that into your awareness, your conscious
(26:50):
awareness is the best way to start making a change.
And you know, I think also we need to remember that food is
it's giving you health food and body weight and what bodies look
like. It's not just something that
adds weight. Do you want to be healthy?
Like that's the question you need to ask yourself.
(27:12):
Do I want my health? You know, I often say that
health is our most precious asset, but we don't realize that
until it's gone. Don't realize how important
health is until we don't have our health for some reason.
You know, you get a flu or you know, you break your leg or
whatever it is and it suddenly stops you from living the life
you want to live. Like, don't wait to get to that
(27:35):
point with your health to make achange with your food, like
actually do it now. Start to make better choices and
think about is this food going to give me the the nourishment
that it needs, that my body needs right now or am I trying
to satisfy another hunger like an emotional hunger or something
like that. It's another thing to that I
(27:55):
teach people is like, are you emotionally hungry or are you
physically hungry? Yeah, distinguish.
Yeah, I'd like to dive into intuitive eating a little more
because I do that to a certain degree because I feel like
sometimes I crave certain thingsfor a meal because my body needs
that. Sometimes I really wanted a very
(28:16):
particular, OK, I really wanted a broccoli dish today.
Or sometimes I really feel like I really need some food.
And I think that is those are the signals.
And a lot of people, they practice whatever diets that
they're following and that's notwhat your body is craving at
all. And I also read in a book called
Ultra Processed People, I just came out a couple of years and
(28:40):
there was an experiment that they did with just babies.
Yeah, it's very young age. And then they have different
things in front of different food in front of them.
And then for the baby, that's, that is needing a certain
nutrient that is present in the cod liver oil or something like
that. The baby naturally reach for the
the oil until maybe a couple of days later he or she didn't need
(29:04):
it anymore and the baby picked some other food.
And I think that is really interesting.
Not a lot of people is aware of that.
So how would you teach someone to paying attention to the
signals to start practicing intuitive eating?
Yeah. So I think one of the most
effective ways to to begin that process is through body
(29:27):
scanning. So a body scan meditation.
So this is something that I talkmy clients through and I, I sort
of guide them through it. And you're like feeling like
every single part of your body. So you feel like your little
toes, you know, and, and you go through that whole process and
then and then you can kind of like, OK, so I can feel like
(29:47):
what's happening in my abdomen now, you know, I can feel like,
am I hungry? Am I physically hungry at what
signals I got? And it's very much a, you know,
it takes time to develop that the the 6th or 7th sense called
interception, which ability, thesensitivity to feel your body.
(30:08):
And that's what I believe has been cut off.
A lot of us have cut off from, you know, if you're, if you
exercise and you're into, you know, some of those kind of
things, it's probably less of anissue.
But for the people who are kind of sitting down in front of
screens a lot, I think that's definitely something that that
can happen is they, they stop tofeel their bodies.
(30:29):
And I would say, you know, to, to learn about what the 10
principles of intuitive eating are and look through them.
And I, and I do this, you know, I get them to look through them
and I'm like, which ones you already doing?
Because we're all doing some of them.
It's not like we're all just completely oblivious to what
we're eating. You know, I think everybody,
(30:49):
even people that are in really bad health, everybody has an
awareness that that what the food is eating and what's doing
to them. And it is also a case of trial
and error. You know, you eat a food.
Oh, I don't feel good after that.
Or you eat your food and you're like, I feel really energized.
I'm like, you know, that's exactly what I needed.
Like you just described. Really need to eat some fruit
(31:10):
today, you know. But when I was going through my
recovery, I used to have that with a beef burger.
I'd be like, I really need to eat a beef burger because I
bought you going. I need energy.
You know, I was also vegan for quite a long time, which was a
whole other kind of reason for me to restrict food.
It was also for ethical reasons as well.
But what I realised is that my body was going give me like
(31:33):
more. I was constantly denying it.
And that was when I had problemswith my menstrual cycle and
periods and all that kind of stuff.
And so, you know, you do just gothrough a process of trial and
error. And you know, I'm not saying
that the, the intuitive eating is a set of principles.
It's not like strict guidelines because complete opposite of
(31:56):
what, what you know, that's dietculture.
Diet culture is strict. It's like, eat this, you eat in
this window, you eat these number of calories, you cut this
out. It's very, you know, it's very
masculine and it's energy dieting.
Whereas intuitive eating is likemore feminine approach because
it's like, how do I feel today? Maybe maybe I'm like, I really
want to eat a doughnut. Allow yourself to do that
(32:19):
because if you don't you, you'rethen kind of going, you know, I
really stopped. I really wanted to eat that
doughnut but I didn't let myself.
You're risking like going into more of a binging behaviour then
because you're like, well, my body's craving energy so I'm
going to eat 3 doughnuts 3 days later.
Do you know what I mean? So it can kind of become more
difficult if you become more restrictive.
(32:42):
And that's why diets don't work.They restrict and nobody wants
to live in those very strict boundaries for the rest of their
life. I've had friends that sit around
doing keto. I feel amazing and, and like
you're never going to stick to that forever when you're never
going to not eat a cake again inyour life.
Like you've got 60 years of lifeleft, like you're never going to
(33:03):
eat a cake. You know, it's, it's just that
kind of mentality. And so I really try and help
people, even though I work with people who are, you know, living
with metabolic conditions like diabetes and obesity and fatty
liver disease disease. I want them to get to a place
where they can still eat the foods they enjoy.
But they're doing it with awareness and with understanding
(33:23):
of what's happening in their body.
And they've shifted and they've learned throughout the program
that I do. So therefore they, they can't go
back because they've got too much knowledge, then kind of,
you know, go back. So yeah, you've got to be
realistic as well. Like, you know, I really love
chocolate. I love chocolate desserts.
(33:45):
And I don't stop myself from eating them now because if, if
I'm like, I really want to have that, you know, it's usually
because, you know, it's been maybe a week since I've had
anything like that. And I'm like, I really fancy it.
And that's fine because you havea bit and you go, actually I've
had enough. Now.
If you deny yourself it, you want it more.
You know, it's like prophecy. That's something, isn't it?
(34:06):
As soon as you restrict something, you can't stop
thinking about it. And that's what you want.
So if you, if you remove that restriction and say one of the
principles is unconditional permission to eat in insurance
of eating. So you're giving yourself
permission to eat whatever you feel like eating
unconditionally. Not with like, am I going to eat
this chocolate dessert? But then tomorrow I'm going to
(34:28):
restrict again, that's traditional.
So it's learning that as well asa principle.
And there's ways to kind of embed those behaviours.
And it, you know, it's a, it's aprocess that takes time and you
have to do each step in a, in a particular way to come to a
place where you feel comfortablewith allowing yourself to eat
(34:48):
the foods that you're actually really craving.
Yeah. How do we draw the line between?
Because unconditionally unrestrictive eating.
That sounds like slippery slope on the surface.
Of course, there are other principles in the intuitive
eating. Yeah.
Like, how do we draw the line? Because that is music to a lot
(35:09):
of people's ears. I could eat whatever I want.
That's also like a lot of the diets, the fad diets.
Yeah, that's what they claim. Like, you can eat unlimited
amounts of meat and you won't gain weight.
All that. Yeah.
Like, how do we be careful aboutthat?
Yeah, that's a really good question.
So like I said at the beginning,you know, the body has its own
(35:31):
mechanisms for kind of keeping you fed and sustained.
You know, if you are living withobesity or being very
overweight, then you are going to need to make changes.
You're not going to be able to just eat what you want when you
want because that's clearly not been serving you to this point
(35:52):
health. So you've got to balance that
with, you know, understanding nutrition, understanding the
health goals that you want to achieve and then bringing your
behaviour and your knowledge around food in line with that.
There's also, you know, a lot ofa misconception around intuitive
(36:16):
eating. Intuitive eating isn't just
eating whatever you want whenever you want to it.
That isn't what it is. And somebody else said to me
once, oh, isn't intuitive eatingjust feeling hungry and eating
then? And like, yes, it is.
But if it was that simple, everybody would just be doing it
already and we wouldn't have anydietary related diseases, You
know, So it's every single person is individual and has
(36:40):
their own individual background with food, their own emotional
connection to food and bringing their own awareness into like
why they're eating the way they are.
Is that like why you binging on crisps when you get home from
work? And a lot of the time it's
because people don't eat enough during the daytime.
(37:01):
You know, they wake up, they skip breakfast because they're
intermittent fasting. They get to lunch and they go.
I'm going to have a salad. 2. 100 calories and then they get
home at 5:00 and they're like starving hungry and they've got
like the whole fridge and the whole of the cupboards to to,
you know, feed themselves with and they open the cupboard and
they just start binging. That's because you haven't
(37:23):
nourished yourself in the daytime.
The daytime is the active periodof the day where you're, you
know, your brain is working, you're at work, you're out,
whatever you're doing and you need to give your body fuel.
Like that's what food is. It gives you fuel to be able to
perform in the best way you can.And by restricting in the
daytime, you're, you're creatinga, a binging behaviour in the
(37:46):
evening because you get home, maybe you're feeling lonely,
maybe there's nobody at home to greet you.
Maybe your dog just died. You know, whatever it is, you
emotion. And then you're like, food is a
comfort. So you eat food and then you go
into that, Oh my God, last nightI ate so much food today I need
(38:07):
to restrict. And you're back in that cycle
again. Whereas intuitive eating teaches
you to recognize if you're emotionally hungry, like I feel
I'm this, this feeling is not physical hunger.
This is emotional hunger. I'm going to ring my friend up
and have a cry on the phone or I'm going to, you know, do
whatever some something else that gives you the emotional
(38:30):
connection. There are lots of other ways to
manage emotional hunger that don't involve food.
And actually you need to reach for something that doesn't
involve food, that gives you usually it's a human connection
that we're that we're looking for.
So yeah, it's understanding thatand recognizing your own
behaviour and saying this isn't behaviour that I want to keep
(38:52):
doing. It's not the health I want.
What you said is very important because I was wondering how can
someone who just listen to this?And I'm sure deep down everyone
knows that they have this unhealthy relationship with who?
Like are I'm just eating becauseit's there or like I really want
(39:14):
to eat this whole bag of crisps.So deep down everyone knows.
But what would be something thatthey can start asking themselves
if they want to address it? And you answered it even before
I ask there. We go.
OK, so I would like to do a rapid fire round of questions.
(39:34):
OK, go for it. So really quick answers, OK,
what's your ultimate comfort food?
Oh God, that's a really difficult one.
I think. I mean, it's going to be a bit
weird, but it's a casserole thatmy mum used to make with Ansel's
and chorizo, which is like a Spanish sausage.
(39:56):
So that just really reminds me of being young and my mum
feeding that in the winter. So that feels like.
Yeah, yeah. Comforting.
Nourishing. Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, next one.
What's a healthy food trend thatyou know is rubbish?
Perceived to be healthy I would say the keto diet.
(40:19):
No, you're not the first person I said yeah, I was talking to
another health coach. Oh, really?
She does the same thing? Yeah, it's definitely not.
It's not sustainable. It's not good for your
metabolism. Living on ketones for the rest
of your life is not how we're designed to be.
So yeah. And it's also not good for the
planet to be eating all that meat.
(40:41):
Yeah, as well, it's not good foryour wallet either.
No, absolutely. And you're not good for your gut
health. You know, gut microbiome really
needs to have a lot of fibre andyou know, you're kind of cutting
that out really when you're on the keto diet mostly.
So, yeah, OK. What's a food that you used to
(41:02):
avoid but now love? Oh God, I was going to say a
beef burger, but I don't like love a beef burger.
I just, I just feel like I need it.
But yeah, probably that and probably cakes.
I would say you can actually, you know, if I do feel like
eating a beef burger, I will potentially make my own as well.
(41:24):
You know, what's in it then? Yeah, You know, I try not to eat
too much meat because just because of like, the ethical
reasons and stuff. But I've also realized that my
body actually really does need it.
And I feel a lot more energetic when I have meat in my diet.
So they have it maybe like once or twice a week now.
Yeah, and I also notice if we make it at home ourself, it
(41:47):
doesn't even need to be from scratch.
Everything you can start easy like order the home kit, meal
kits, delivery because the amount of salt and fat and
everything that you put in it isdefinitely way less than when
you get it. For sure, yeah.
And you can put you know what like your own spices and things
in it if you want to things likethat.
So, you know, and I, I think with meat, like for me, I had,
(42:11):
you know, like I said before, like hormonal problems, and that
was partly because I was exercising too much and not
eating enough protein. And so having a bit of meat now,
you know, helps me. I'm 44 as well.
So, you know, my menstrual cycleis, you know, gradually shifting
and obviously entering perimenopause over the next few
years and stuff. So, you know, for me, I want to
make sure I'm getting my proteinintake.
(42:33):
So. Yeah.
Yeah, get yourself prepared. For that, yeah, exactly.
Yeah. OK, if you were to pick one word
to describe your philosophy of food or healthy eating, what
would it be? Freedom.
OK. Yeah.
I think the other word that comes to me is flexibility.
But you said one word, so I saidfreedom.
(42:55):
Yeah. I think, you know, through my
own journey, that's been the keyto being able to enjoy my life,
really. Because, you know, when you have
this obsession with food, like, it really takes the joy out of
life. It was food is like pleasure,
isn't it? You know, we celebrate with it.
We, you know, we have like beautiful meals with we love and
(43:16):
all of that stuff. And I love cooking as well.
So yeah. So I now feel like I have this
complete freedom around food that I didn't have for a very
long time. Yeah, I know couples who broke
up because they're eating valuesare not the same when it comes
to. Food.
All right. Last one, if you were to tell
(43:38):
yourself, your younger self a message about food, what would
you tell your younger self? I would say to her that food is
self-care and an act of self love.
Well said. Thank you very much, Sammy.
My pleasure. This is a message that a lot of
us need to hear. But listening to yourself.
So the recurring theme in Mind Blend is clarity.
(44:03):
Like understanding yourself. And this is 1 aspect that we
don't all practice. Like we are not mindful of our
body, our actions, we're just doing.
So I think this is really important.
And I kind of preach this to my family here and there.
(44:23):
A lot of the things is it's the all or nothing.
I always say it doesn't have to be.
So all or nothing, all or nothing.
Don't overdo it, but don't completely cut it out.
Yeah, that's part of the intuitive.
Reason it is, yeah, Absolutely, yeah.
All right, I'll leave your information in the show notes so
people can check out your website.
(44:43):
I know you have your own podcastas well.
A lot of interesting message there.
It combines science and there's also spirituality and
psychology. So definitely check it out.
Yeah. Well, thank you very much.
My pleasure, it's been great, really enjoyed it.
Great, thanks for listening to this episode of Mind One.
(45:04):
If you enjoyed the conversation,don't forget to follow and share
it with anyone who needs to hearit.
And let's keep the conversation going.
Connect with me on LinkedIn or leave me a comment.
Until next time, stay curious, keep exploring, and let's
continue to burn our minds and discover what's possible.
My coach told me that I needed to lose weight, that I was too
fat. Mind, I was just like, OK, so
that's that's a message that I, you know, affected me.
And I actually didn't really realize that that had affected
me until I actually went througha recovery for my eating
disorder. It wasn't really until I
admitted to myself that I neededto change.
(00:21):
Because when other people tell you to change, you're not doing
it for yourself, you're doing itfor them, or you're doing
because you feel guilt or whatever you want to please
others. But actually, you know, the time
that it really made a differenceto me was when I decided that I
didn't want to live with this behaviour anymore, that I'd had
enough of it and I wanted to take steps to help myself.
(00:47):
That was Sammy Williams sharing how a single comment from a
swimming coach became the starting point of her eating
disorder and how she ultimately made the decision to reclaim her
relationship with food. In this episode, Sammy and I
have an honest, deeply personal conversation about eating
disorders, intuitive eating, andwhat it means to build a healthy
(01:08):
relationship with food in a world obsessed with diets and
trends. We also unpacked the critical
difference between mindful eating and restrictive eating.
One supports long term health and the other one keeps people
stuck in a cycle of deprivation and bingeing.
(01:29):
Welcome to the show Mind Blend. I'm your host, Karen Chong, and
I'll be diving into the minds ofincredible people, each an
expert in their very own way. Together we'll uncover insights
and share ideas so you can be inspired and empowered to
navigate your own unique journeyin life.
Ready to get curious and discover what's possible?
(01:50):
Let's blend. So at the time of the recording
is December in 2025 S? What does that mean?
Year end parties, holidays. At this time of the year, in a
lot of cultures, it means a lot of gathering, lot of food,
eating, just enjoying and just taking it easy.
(02:11):
Then comes January and people start making healthy New Year's
resolution. They're going back to the gym
doing dry January to cut out thealcohol that they overdid in the
holidays. So we're going to talk about
exactly that today with my guest, Sammy Williams.
Sammy is an associated registered nutritionist and
founder of Natural Nutrition, educating and empowering people
(02:34):
with the knowledge we all need to sustain health for life.
Hi, Sammy, welcome to MIND Blend.
Hi, Karen, Thank you for having me.
It's good to be here. Yeah, welcome.
And I'm really glad to have thisconversation with you, with
someone also in the UK. Yeah, we're both witnessing the
cold, dark days at the moment. Yeah, yeah, which makes it even
(02:55):
harder. Yeah, it does.
Yeah. Although it is a beautiful day
today, I have to say I went out this morning and it was sunny
and not too cold so. Yeah, yeah, when the sun is out,
the mood lifted. Absolutely, Yeah.
I just got back from a trip in South Africa as well, so coming
back from like spring, so autumn, yeah, a bit challenging.
(03:15):
My body is like confused. It's going, yeah.
Where are we? Yeah, and the season also
effects our attitudes towards food a lot.
We'll dive a lot into that. But before that, I want to hear
your story because I know it's really impactful when you told
me, and it's not always the sameas the life you have right now.
(03:37):
So let's talk about that. Yeah, absolutely.
So I guess it kind of started really my relationship with food
was quite complex when I was younger because I used to be a
competitive swimmer when I was young, like early morning
swimming when I was 8 years old.And obviously, like how you eat
is quite important when you're an athlete as a child, you know,
(03:59):
your body's continually changingand growing and everything.
So it's kind of hard to really know exactly what to eat
sometimes. And that I had an incident in,
in my early sort of swimming years where my coach told me
that I needed to lose weight, that I was too fat.
And you know, as a female learn,like learning, you know, it's
(04:21):
kind of about your body and everything else.
And I was wearing a swimsuit allthe time because I was swimming
constantly, like morning. And it just really created a
disconnection with my body. Actually, I, I started to see my
body in a different way and thatkind of, I guess like triggered
a series of different things happening to me, which led to me
(04:47):
developing an eating disorder inmy like early, well, late teens,
early 20s, around the age of about 19.
And yeah, I just kind of, at thetime, I just kind of thought it
was a normal behaviour because Igrew up, you know, in the UK in
the 90s, there was lots of messaging in the media around
(05:07):
what a female body should look like, like that it should look
very skinny. It was like heroin chic was the
fashion. And, you know, as a young,
impressionable teenager, like, Iinternalized a lot of that
messaging alongside, you know, being constantly on show in my
body, you know, when I was swimming.
And I also did triathlons as well.
(05:28):
And, you know, having lots of people around me and lots of
other girls. And I was always comparing my
body to them and thinking, oh, well, you know, I'm the one that
needs to lose weight because I've been told that, but that
I'm is in a position of power and authority.
So therefore, you know, I, I don't look like that.
So that's what I need to look. Like you said, you like had a
different image of your body. Do you remember what that was?
(05:53):
I think it was just an awarenessof it, awareness of it Like you
don't, you don't look at your body and think there's anything
wrong with it. Yeah, it's just there.
It's just a vessel that you've bought your soul is in and
you're enjoying yourself. And, and I think that comment is
kind of suddenly made me look atmy body in a different way and
(06:13):
think there's something wrong with it.
Like it needs changing. The way it is isn't how it
should be. And I just think in my sort of,
I was only 8 years old when thathappened.
So my young mind, I was just like, OK, so that's, that's a
message that I, you know, affected me.
And I actually didn't really realise that that had affected
me until I actually went througha recovery for my eating
(06:36):
disorder and a lot of work with a therapist.
And, you know, I did a lot of meditation and, you know, I'm
quite a spiritual person. So I, I kind of use other, other
ways to kind of understand like with the root of where this is
coming from. And I'm not saying that that was
the root, but that was definitely a thing that happened
to me, that contributed to how Isaw my body and perceived
(06:58):
myself, having myself for the people.
So you had that eating disorder.When did the light bulb turn on?
When did you realize, oh, there's something wrong?
Yeah, so I guess like quite early on because, well, I was at
university when it really started to kind of manifest
after I left home first time andI I stopped swimming, I stopped
(07:22):
doing triathlons, I stopped doing all the exercise that I've
been doing for the last 10 years.
And I just kind of had enough ofit really.
And I just wanted to like enjoy myself and.
And I lost a lot of weight really quickly because at that
age you do anyway, your body's still changing.
And because I had been very fit,I think, you know, just stopping
exercising, my body just changed.
And people would comment and be like, Oh my God, you look
(07:44):
amazing. Like you're also playing.
And then like, I, you know, I sort of had all these times
where I was feeling, you know, very uncomfortable, my body.
And I would like restrict and then like people would, you
know, say like, why aren't you eating and all this kind of
stuff? And then I would eat in front of
people because I felt like people were watching me.
(08:05):
And then I would. Yeah, just to shut you up.
Yeah, exactly. And pretend because you you
don't want, because it's a secret.
Like you want it to, you want it, you want it to be that.
I wanted to be skinny. Like I didn't want to not be
skinny. So I kind of hid it and it was
my secret. And then I would like purge
sometimes because I get this anxiety about the fact that I
(08:26):
eat and stuff. So, yeah.
And so I guess around that time,you know, my friends were like,
oh, do you know, you need to seea therapist?
And I had a boyfriend at the time and he was like, you know,
I'm worried about you. And, and it was at that point
that I, it became like even moresecret because I, I went to one
therapy session and I was just like, I'm not, I don't want to
(08:46):
do this. So I wasn't ready.
I was very young. I just, I was happy with how I
was. I was just like, I just want to
enjoy myself at least basically.So yeah, even though I kind of
knew it was behaviour that was damaging, I didn't want to
accept that. Yeah.
Did you think if you correct it,you're going to be fat again?
Yeah, that's the fear that is. The fear is like you associate
(09:08):
like, and to be honest, like I was never fat.
Like I've never been fat in my life.
I was like. Wasn't even that.
I wasn't, I was a normal like young, young girl, you know, I
had to like puppy fat, I guess you call it.
But that's a normal thing. And, you know, my body was
changing. I was growing breasts and, you
know, having my period and all those hormones and stuff like
(09:29):
that. And you know, I've never be, I
was big because I've, I've quitetall, you know, I'm like 5 or 8
and I, I was a swimmer. So, you know, it was like you've
got big shoulders and things. You needed the muscle to propel
you. Well, exactly.
But all of these messages like contributed to me feeling like
this discomfort in my body that people were commenting on how I
(09:50):
looked and you know what? I was what I was presenting as a
physical being. And that just kind of then made
me think I need to be different.And so, yeah.
But it wasn't really until I admitted to myself that I needed
to change. Because when other people tell
you to change, you're not doing it for yourself, you're doing it
(10:12):
for them, or you're doing because you feel guilt or
whatever you want to please others.
But actually, you know, the timethat it really made a difference
to me was when I decided that I didn't want to live with this
behaviour anymore. I'd had enough of it and I
wanted to take steps to help myself and that that decision
(10:32):
didn't come to me until I was actually 39.
So I lived with this kind of behaviour in cycles.
It came in cycles for about 20 years of my.
Life. Wow, that's a long time it.
Is a long time and you know, I it wasn't always really bad.
You know, there would be times in my life where I was like
really happy and content and it would that the behaviours would
(10:54):
kind of go away. But then I ever went through a
period of stress in my life or difficult times, that would be
the behaviour that would come back because it was like a, you
know, it was like a familiar friend.
It's, it's a coping mechanism. You know, if I focus on that and
my weight and what I'm eating, Idon't have to think about this
other stuff that's happening that I'm feeling really bad
(11:15):
about, or I don't have to think about an emotion that I'm
feeling like I don't want to feel or whatever it is, you
know, so and it's, yeah, you're just reinforcing that pathway,
that behavioural pathway in yourbrain every time you do it.
So and I, I just kind of thoughtit was normal.
I thought it was what all women did, to be honest with you, for
a long time. I told that anyway, you know, it
(11:36):
was, it was that kind of, you lie to yourself, don't you?
You know, we're brilliant lying to ourselves.
Yeah. Only at that point I decided,
and it was actually during COVIDthat I was living in Bangkok.
I was teaching out there and I was that there was something on
the beat. I was listening to BBC News and
they said something about peoplegaining weight over locked out.
(11:57):
And that just sent me into like massive stress.
I was like, Oh my God, I can't put weight on cycle of like, you
know, being really obsessed witheverything, like exercising all
the time. And it was another coping
mechanism for the situation which we were all in, which was
pretty scary and nobody knew what was going on.
(12:17):
And I thought, I'm just exhausted right by this, this, I
can't keep putting all my energyinto this all the time.
And I just had a moment where I was just like, am I going to
keep doing this for the rest of my life or am I going to change
it? Like I have a choice, like I
don't have doing it. And I decided to seek some help.
And I found it very hard to evensay eating disorder at the
(12:40):
beginning that I felt so uncomfortable about it.
And the therapist just helped meto kind of gradually, yeah,
accept it and open up about it and then understand it and put
new, new thought processes in mymind really, which is how you
make change. And it probably to 2 1/2 years
(13:02):
probably in total to kind of getto a point where I didn't need,
like, therapy to continually be,you know, going through
everything. Yeah.
So, but it's still that, I mean,it's, you know, I still can
notice my brain sometimes, you know, a thought will come to me
and I'm an old. That's an old thought.
(13:25):
What kind of thought would it be?
Something like I guess, Oh God, I haven't like exercised today
or I haven't, you know, I've eaten like a burger.
Oh my God, you know, tomorrow I need to tomorrow I need to eat
less like that type of thing. So but now I'm like, no, my body
(13:45):
needs needed that. Like it felt good.
Like I'm, you know, I treat myself with compassion now and
I, the way I speak to myself is different.
And, you know, I've done, you know, a lot of work and I
started it in 2020. It's been kind of five years now
since I began that process. And there's been many, many
(14:06):
different things that I've done which have changed the way my
brain works in that way. Yeah, I think that's the the
mindset is very important because we I see our
relationship with food, it's very all or nothing in a lot of
circles or in a lot of my friends is very all or nothing.
(14:27):
They go all out, go crazy, eat whatever is in the fridge, and
then they cut everything out or cut this entire group of food
out. Or they eat or not eat for not
the right reason. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. That's very much a behaviour
that comes from diet culture. You know, it's it's and that's
(14:50):
what leads to eating disorders in a lot of people is that binge
restrict mentality that there's like you have to compensate for
overeating by under eating. But actually what I've learned
is that your body has its own mechanisms for that.
Don't have to control it with this body will naturally get you
(15:11):
to eat more if you're hungry andit will naturally get you to eat
less if you're not hungry. And all that doing the binge
restrict cycle does is it actually damages your
metabolism. You're constantly in this like,
you know, overeating, overconsumption and then
underconsumption. And it it really confuses the
(15:32):
body because when you food, yourmetabolic rate gets slower.
When you eat more food, your metabolic rate gets higher.
So actually, if you're constantly in this like yo yoing
all the time, you end up with metabolic dysfunction and you're
more likely to have things like insulin resistance and type 2
diabetes later in life if you'vebeen a chronic Dieter and
(15:53):
actually having it's a form of control, like you feel like
you're more in control if you're.
Doing their diet. Yeah, by doing a diet, exactly.
Yeah. But actually when I work with
clients who have had this kind of issue, what they realise is
actually if they eat just, you know, like regularly and they
(16:13):
eat at the same time every day and they have, you know,
breakfast, lunch and dinner or whatever it is that suits their
body, they actually feel more incontrol because they don't have
this like ravenous hunger that you get from restricting.
Yeah, yeah. It's that that leads to the fear
of weight gain. And so if people can come to a
more balanced place with food and, you know, they don't
(16:36):
overeat because they're not so hungry, need to restrict, which
makes them more hungry. Do you see what I mean?
Actually gives them more control.
They always say that to me, thatI can't believe I feel more in
control now that I'm eating likethis than I used to feel when I
was restricting. Yeah, it's almost like they they
didn't have the control. The food had the control.
Yeah, But it's actually the bodythat has the control because
(17:00):
your body will override this. So, you know, your body is like
driving hunger. If it's, you know, the hormones
in your body will make you hungry.
And the way that that happens isif your cells are like empty,
basically, if you're, you know, if you're, if you're low on your
blood sugar, you know, your hunger hormones increase.
So it makes you more hungry. So you can't override it with
(17:22):
the brain forever. And when you have an eating
disorder, you know, you spend a lot of time feeling very hungry.
And it is a battle of will to belike I have to, I'm not going to
eat. I'm not going to eat.
And you will do anything to avoid that.
And it's not, you know, it's quite.
Difficult. Yeah, I had a very brief moment
(17:44):
of that. It was about, I'd say maybe six
months. So I moved to Japan when I was
in like my late 20s, but things were not very easy.
I had some relationship problem back home.
I remember I think I was, I had a mild eating disorder because
there'll be. So I was restricting partly
because of budget. I didn't want to run out of
(18:05):
money before the end of how longI was supposed to be there.
I remember because I was a person.
I was a sweets person. I love cakes, desserts, and they
have all these beautiful cakes in Japan.
And I remember looking at the cake and I thought, well, if I
eat it, I'm just going to get fat, so might as well not.
(18:26):
So I did think I had about six months of that type of thinking.
And I did lose a lot of weight when my family picked me up at
the airport. My sister said you have just
your head. Like, it's just head.
There's nothing like, you're so skinny.
Like they couldn't really recognize me when I went there.
(18:46):
Yeah. Yeah, but that is, you know, we
we associate food with comfort because we're babies, you know,
we get fed when we're crying. You know, it's a way that we
bond with our mothers, whether we have bottle fed or breastfed.
And you know, it's a pacification like when when
we're upset, we get pacified with food a lot of the time.
So from from the moment of birth, we connect food and
(19:08):
comfort together. So when you're in a situation
where you feel a bit lonely, like you, you know, you were in
a difficult place where you knowyou had relationship issues, you
were living in a country that you weren't from.
And all those things can kind ofmake you feel insecure.
And food is a really easy way tocomfort yourself.
It's almost like a self soothingkind of behavior.
(19:32):
And overeating and under eating are both the same.
The root of it is the same, it'sjust that the behaviour is
different. You know, some people will
overeat to get that feeling of compensation and some people
will under eat to get that feeling of, of compensation.
So still the same, you know, still you're using food as a
(19:52):
control mechanism or a coping mechanism.
It's just that the behaviour around it is different.
So and I would say that most women that I meet.
And then actually as well, but more, more women have had some
sort of issue around food at some point in their lives.
It's common in 20, in your 20s, I think because you're still
(20:12):
finding out who you are. You're maybe not very secure.
You're a bit more like, you know, you're moving around more
and exploring. But it, you know, it can stay
stick around, you know, it can stay with you.
So yeah, I would say that that'sthat's quite a common thing that
I hear actually. And this was the reason why I
wanted to recover properly is because I wanted to be able to
(20:36):
speak to other women about this and say it's not just you Like
there is, you know, millions of women out there probably
experiencing or have experiencedthe same thing.
And well, what I realised is when I was vulnerable about my
issues and I spoke to people openly about it, that enabled
them to also do the same. Oh, like sharing their own
(20:57):
issue. Exactly.
Yeah. And because otherwise you think,
Oh my God, it's just me. Like I'm going through all this
stuff and nobody else understands it.
But as soon as you open up to somebody about it and they go,
Oh my God, I was exactly the same or.
Like it was me. Yeah, exactly.
That's main. So, you know, I found it really
hard to talk about in the beginning, but now I talk about
it all the time, you know, So it's and it's obviously part of
(21:20):
what I do now to help other people.
So yeah, I'm being like free in your mind around food is like
such a liberating thing. Yeah, and now I definitely eat a
lot more than before. Maybe when I was a teenager I
ate a lot, but now I definitely eat a lot more than 10 years
ago. But my weight is not all that
(21:42):
different and I, I actually think I have more tone than 10
years ago. So I think there's something
that we can educate people abouteating properly.
It's not only you're not only eating salad, it's about eating
the right combination of things,making sure you have different
nutrients. So but I am more restrictive
(22:04):
when it comes to don't go overboard.
Like I'll eat sweets, candy, chocolate, whatever.
I just don't eat five pieces in one sitting or I don't eat every
single day. So what do you think the
difference between mindful eating and restrictive eating?
So when I sort of after I'd gonethrough my recovery, I did a
(22:28):
course in intuitive eating to become an intuitive.
And part of that is, you know, mindfulness, like mindful eating
is one of the kind of principlesof intuitive eating.
And, you know, restrictive, the restrictive mindset is you're
not listening to your body. It's a mindset, it's a your
brain. It's try your ego actually
(22:49):
probably is trying to control what your behaviour is.
And it's an illusion, you know, be able to control that is a is
an illusion. And over time, you can't, you
can't continually do that. Whereas mindful eating is
learning to sit with your body, feel your body, feel its signals
(23:13):
and interpret what they mean as well is we live in a in an
environment and a lifestyle now that cuts us off pretty much
from here, you know? I think so.
Yeah, we sit at screens all day and I spent I think I was at my
screen for like 12 hours yesterday.
I just last night I just could not switch my brain off like it
(23:34):
was really. Hard, yeah.
This morning, that's why I went out for a run because I was
like, I need to come back into my body.
I need to feel my body again. And I think, you know, if you're
not in that way of thinking, if you're not aware of it, then you
can end up not being able to feel what your body is telling
you. You know, you're like a very,
(23:55):
very wise Organism. I was like ancestral and ancient
wisdom in it. And we're very cut off from
that. So if we can kind of come back
into our body and start to feel it again, we can listen to its
signals. So hunger, Sir, tiredness,
stress, anger and emotion that, you know, whatever it is that
(24:17):
we're feeling and we can go, OK,yeah.
Because quite often we might be like, I'm hungry.
That's the automatic thing that comes.
But actually, you might not be hungry.
You might be feeling frustrated.You might, you might just be
tired, you know. So if we can kind of distinguish
between what those things are, we're much better at being able
to nourish our bodies in the right way.
(24:38):
And when we're eating, we need to be present with that process
as well. So mindful eating is all about
being present with the process. Sit with the food.
You look at the food, you smell it, you notice what your body is
doing in response to that. You know the question starts
like way before you eat. All.
(24:58):
Your hormones being released, your, you know, saliva is being
produced. There's lots of things going on
in the body before you eat food and you know, and then we sort
of sit down to eat the food and we're watching a screen and
completely mindlessly. Yeah, that happened so many
times when I'm like having a meeting or something.
Yeah, Watching something. Yeah.
So if we can like come back and and respect food for, you know,
(25:24):
the nourishment that it is, rather than it being like a
secondary thing or maybe even a third thing that we just have to
do to kind of keep us going or just, you know, do without
thought. So I'm not saying that every
meal you're going to sit there and have this whole process of
mindful eating because it's not not practical.
But, you know, once a week, giveyourself a meal where you are
(25:46):
sitting with, you know, you can be with other people, but
without conversation, without a phone, without a screen, you
know, just without music, even just completely with the food
and with the process. And, you know, put it in your
mouth, taste it, notice what's happening, like swallow it.
How does it feel inside your body?
Like is this satisfying you or is there something else going on
(26:06):
and you know it? It's can, it can be a really
beautiful process to do that offthe space for that.
And if you do that once a week, it will affect the rest of the
time you eat as well. Yeah, yeah.
Start to go, Oh yeah, OK, I'm really enjoying this or Oh my
God, I'm eating this and not even thinking about it.
And the best way to change your relationship with food is with
awareness, awareness of your behaviours.
(26:29):
Because a lot of the way we eat is conditioning.
And it's conditioning that, you know, we received as children
and young people when we, we hadno choice about who was around
us. And that conditioning is driving
90% of our behaviour all automatic.
We're not even thinking about it.
So bringing that into your awareness, your conscious
(26:50):
awareness is the best way to start making a change.
And you know, I think also we need to remember that food is
it's giving you health food and body weight and what bodies look
like. It's not just something that
adds weight. Do you want to be healthy?
Like that's the question you need to ask yourself.
(27:12):
Do I want my health? You know, I often say that
health is our most precious asset, but we don't realize that
until it's gone. Don't realize how important
health is until we don't have our health for some reason.
You know, you get a flu or you know, you break your leg or
whatever it is and it suddenly stops you from living the life
you want to live. Like, don't wait to get to that
(27:35):
point with your health to make achange with your food, like
actually do it now. Start to make better choices and
think about is this food going to give me the the nourishment
that it needs, that my body needs right now or am I trying
to satisfy another hunger like an emotional hunger or something
like that. It's another thing to that I
(27:55):
teach people is like, are you emotionally hungry or are you
physically hungry? Yeah, distinguish.
Yeah, I'd like to dive into intuitive eating a little more
because I do that to a certain degree because I feel like
sometimes I crave certain thingsfor a meal because my body needs
that. Sometimes I really wanted a very
(28:16):
particular, OK, I really wanted a broccoli dish today.
Or sometimes I really feel like I really need some food.
And I think that is those are the signals.
And a lot of people, they practice whatever diets that
they're following and that's notwhat your body is craving at
all. And I also read in a book called
Ultra Processed People, I just came out a couple of years and
(28:40):
there was an experiment that they did with just babies.
Yeah, it's very young age. And then they have different
things in front of different food in front of them.
And then for the baby, that's, that is needing a certain
nutrient that is present in the cod liver oil or something like
that. The baby naturally reach for the
the oil until maybe a couple of days later he or she didn't need
(29:04):
it anymore and the baby picked some other food.
And I think that is really interesting.
Not a lot of people is aware of that.
So how would you teach someone to paying attention to the
signals to start practicing intuitive eating?
Yeah. So I think one of the most
effective ways to to begin that process is through body
(29:27):
scanning. So a body scan meditation.
So this is something that I talkmy clients through and I, I sort
of guide them through it. And you're like feeling like
every single part of your body. So you feel like your little
toes, you know, and, and you go through that whole process and
then and then you can kind of like, OK, so I can feel like
(29:47):
what's happening in my abdomen now, you know, I can feel like,
am I hungry? Am I physically hungry at what
signals I got? And it's very much a, you know,
it takes time to develop that the the 6th or 7th sense called
interception, which ability, thesensitivity to feel your body.
(30:08):
And that's what I believe has been cut off.
A lot of us have cut off from, you know, if you're, if you
exercise and you're into, you know, some of those kind of
things, it's probably less of anissue.
But for the people who are kind of sitting down in front of
screens a lot, I think that's definitely something that that
can happen is they, they stop tofeel their bodies.
(30:29):
And I would say, you know, to, to learn about what the 10
principles of intuitive eating are and look through them.
And I, and I do this, you know, I get them to look through them
and I'm like, which ones you already doing?
Because we're all doing some of them.
It's not like we're all just completely oblivious to what
we're eating. You know, I think everybody,
(30:49):
even people that are in really bad health, everybody has an
awareness that that what the food is eating and what's doing
to them. And it is also a case of trial
and error. You know, you eat a food.
Oh, I don't feel good after that.
Or you eat your food and you're like, I feel really energized.
I'm like, you know, that's exactly what I needed.
Like you just described. Really need to eat some fruit
(31:10):
today, you know. But when I was going through my
recovery, I used to have that with a beef burger.
I'd be like, I really need to eat a beef burger because I
bought you going. I need energy.
You know, I was also vegan for quite a long time, which was a
whole other kind of reason for me to restrict food.
It was also for ethical reasons as well.
But what I realised is that my body was going give me like
(31:33):
more. I was constantly denying it.
And that was when I had problemswith my menstrual cycle and
periods and all that kind of stuff.
And so, you know, you do just gothrough a process of trial and
error. And you know, I'm not saying
that the, the intuitive eating is a set of principles.
It's not like strict guidelines because complete opposite of
(31:56):
what, what you know, that's dietculture.
Diet culture is strict. It's like, eat this, you eat in
this window, you eat these number of calories, you cut this
out. It's very, you know, it's very
masculine and it's energy dieting.
Whereas intuitive eating is likemore feminine approach because
it's like, how do I feel today? Maybe maybe I'm like, I really
want to eat a doughnut. Allow yourself to do that
(32:19):
because if you don't you, you'rethen kind of going, you know, I
really stopped. I really wanted to eat that
doughnut but I didn't let myself.
You're risking like going into more of a binging behaviour then
because you're like, well, my body's craving energy so I'm
going to eat 3 doughnuts 3 days later.
Do you know what I mean? So it can kind of become more
difficult if you become more restrictive.
(32:42):
And that's why diets don't work.They restrict and nobody wants
to live in those very strict boundaries for the rest of their
life. I've had friends that sit around
doing keto. I feel amazing and, and like
you're never going to stick to that forever when you're never
going to not eat a cake again inyour life.
Like you've got 60 years of lifeleft, like you're never going to
(33:03):
eat a cake. You know, it's, it's just that
kind of mentality. And so I really try and help
people, even though I work with people who are, you know, living
with metabolic conditions like diabetes and obesity and fatty
liver disease disease. I want them to get to a place
where they can still eat the foods they enjoy.
But they're doing it with awareness and with understanding
(33:23):
of what's happening in their body.
And they've shifted and they've learned throughout the program
that I do. So therefore they, they can't go
back because they've got too much knowledge, then kind of,
you know, go back. So yeah, you've got to be
realistic as well. Like, you know, I really love
chocolate. I love chocolate desserts.
(33:45):
And I don't stop myself from eating them now because if, if
I'm like, I really want to have that, you know, it's usually
because, you know, it's been maybe a week since I've had
anything like that. And I'm like, I really fancy it.
And that's fine because you havea bit and you go, actually I've
had enough. Now.
If you deny yourself it, you want it more.
You know, it's like prophecy. That's something, isn't it?
(34:06):
As soon as you restrict something, you can't stop
thinking about it. And that's what you want.
So if you, if you remove that restriction and say one of the
principles is unconditional permission to eat in insurance
of eating. So you're giving yourself
permission to eat whatever you feel like eating
unconditionally. Not with like, am I going to eat
this chocolate dessert? But then tomorrow I'm going to
(34:28):
restrict again, that's traditional.
So it's learning that as well asa principle.
And there's ways to kind of embed those behaviours.
And it, you know, it's a, it's aprocess that takes time and you
have to do each step in a, in a particular way to come to a
place where you feel comfortablewith allowing yourself to eat
(34:48):
the foods that you're actually really craving.
Yeah. How do we draw the line between?
Because unconditionally unrestrictive eating.
That sounds like slippery slope on the surface.
Of course, there are other principles in the intuitive
eating. Yeah.
Like, how do we draw the line? Because that is music to a lot
(35:09):
of people's ears. I could eat whatever I want.
That's also like a lot of the diets, the fad diets.
Yeah, that's what they claim. Like, you can eat unlimited
amounts of meat and you won't gain weight.
All that. Yeah.
Like, how do we be careful aboutthat?
Yeah, that's a really good question.
So like I said at the beginning,you know, the body has its own
(35:31):
mechanisms for kind of keeping you fed and sustained.
You know, if you are living withobesity or being very
overweight, then you are going to need to make changes.
You're not going to be able to just eat what you want when you
want because that's clearly not been serving you to this point
(35:52):
health. So you've got to balance that
with, you know, understanding nutrition, understanding the
health goals that you want to achieve and then bringing your
behaviour and your knowledge around food in line with that.
There's also, you know, a lot ofa misconception around intuitive
(36:16):
eating. Intuitive eating isn't just
eating whatever you want whenever you want to it.
That isn't what it is. And somebody else said to me
once, oh, isn't intuitive eatingjust feeling hungry and eating
then? And like, yes, it is.
But if it was that simple, everybody would just be doing it
already and we wouldn't have anydietary related diseases, You
know, So it's every single person is individual and has
(36:40):
their own individual background with food, their own emotional
connection to food and bringing their own awareness into like
why they're eating the way they are.
Is that like why you binging on crisps when you get home from
work? And a lot of the time it's
because people don't eat enough during the daytime.
(37:01):
You know, they wake up, they skip breakfast because they're
intermittent fasting. They get to lunch and they go.
I'm going to have a salad. 2. 100 calories and then they get
home at 5:00 and they're like starving hungry and they've got
like the whole fridge and the whole of the cupboards to to,
you know, feed themselves with and they open the cupboard and
they just start binging. That's because you haven't
(37:23):
nourished yourself in the daytime.
The daytime is the active periodof the day where you're, you
know, your brain is working, you're at work, you're out,
whatever you're doing and you need to give your body fuel.
Like that's what food is. It gives you fuel to be able to
perform in the best way you can.And by restricting in the
daytime, you're, you're creatinga, a binging behaviour in the
(37:46):
evening because you get home, maybe you're feeling lonely,
maybe there's nobody at home to greet you.
Maybe your dog just died. You know, whatever it is, you
emotion. And then you're like, food is a
comfort. So you eat food and then you go
into that, Oh my God, last nightI ate so much food today I need
(38:07):
to restrict. And you're back in that cycle
again. Whereas intuitive eating teaches
you to recognize if you're emotionally hungry, like I feel
I'm this, this feeling is not physical hunger.
This is emotional hunger. I'm going to ring my friend up
and have a cry on the phone or I'm going to, you know, do
whatever some something else that gives you the emotional
(38:30):
connection. There are lots of other ways to
manage emotional hunger that don't involve food.
And actually you need to reach for something that doesn't
involve food, that gives you usually it's a human connection
that we're that we're looking for.
So yeah, it's understanding thatand recognizing your own
behaviour and saying this isn't behaviour that I want to keep
(38:52):
doing. It's not the health I want.
What you said is very important because I was wondering how can
someone who just listen to this?And I'm sure deep down everyone
knows that they have this unhealthy relationship with who?
Like are I'm just eating becauseit's there or like I really want
(39:14):
to eat this whole bag of crisps.So deep down everyone knows.
But what would be something thatthey can start asking themselves
if they want to address it? And you answered it even before
I ask there. We go.
OK, so I would like to do a rapid fire round of questions.
(39:34):
OK, go for it. So really quick answers, OK,
what's your ultimate comfort food?
Oh God, that's a really difficult one.
I think. I mean, it's going to be a bit
weird, but it's a casserole thatmy mum used to make with Ansel's
and chorizo, which is like a Spanish sausage.
(39:56):
So that just really reminds me of being young and my mum
feeding that in the winter. So that feels like.
Yeah, yeah. Comforting.
Nourishing. Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, next one.
What's a healthy food trend thatyou know is rubbish?
Perceived to be healthy I would say the keto diet.
(40:19):
No, you're not the first person I said yeah, I was talking to
another health coach. Oh, really?
She does the same thing? Yeah, it's definitely not.
It's not sustainable. It's not good for your
metabolism. Living on ketones for the rest
of your life is not how we're designed to be.
So yeah. And it's also not good for the
planet to be eating all that meat.
(40:41):
Yeah, as well, it's not good foryour wallet either.
No, absolutely. And you're not good for your gut
health. You know, gut microbiome really
needs to have a lot of fibre andyou know, you're kind of cutting
that out really when you're on the keto diet mostly.
So, yeah, OK. What's a food that you used to
(41:02):
avoid but now love? Oh God, I was going to say a
beef burger, but I don't like love a beef burger.
I just, I just feel like I need it.
But yeah, probably that and probably cakes.
I would say you can actually, you know, if I do feel like
eating a beef burger, I will potentially make my own as well.
(41:24):
You know, what's in it then? Yeah, You know, I try not to eat
too much meat because just because of like, the ethical
reasons and stuff. But I've also realized that my
body actually really does need it.
And I feel a lot more energetic when I have meat in my diet.
So they have it maybe like once or twice a week now.
Yeah, and I also notice if we make it at home ourself, it
(41:47):
doesn't even need to be from scratch.
Everything you can start easy like order the home kit, meal
kits, delivery because the amount of salt and fat and
everything that you put in it isdefinitely way less than when
you get it. For sure, yeah.
And you can put you know what like your own spices and things
in it if you want to things likethat.
So, you know, and I, I think with meat, like for me, I had,
(42:11):
you know, like I said before, like hormonal problems, and that
was partly because I was exercising too much and not
eating enough protein. And so having a bit of meat now,
you know, helps me. I'm 44 as well.
So, you know, my menstrual cycleis, you know, gradually shifting
and obviously entering perimenopause over the next few
years and stuff. So, you know, for me, I want to
make sure I'm getting my proteinintake.
(42:33):
So. Yeah.
Yeah, get yourself prepared. For that, yeah, exactly.
Yeah. OK, if you were to pick one word
to describe your philosophy of food or healthy eating, what
would it be? Freedom.
OK. Yeah.
I think the other word that comes to me is flexibility.
But you said one word, so I saidfreedom.
(42:55):
Yeah. I think, you know, through my
own journey, that's been the keyto being able to enjoy my life,
really. Because, you know, when you have
this obsession with food, like, it really takes the joy out of
life. It was food is like pleasure,
isn't it? You know, we celebrate with it.
We, you know, we have like beautiful meals with we love and
(43:16):
all of that stuff. And I love cooking as well.
So yeah. So I now feel like I have this
complete freedom around food that I didn't have for a very
long time. Yeah, I know couples who broke
up because they're eating valuesare not the same when it comes
to. Food.
All right. Last one, if you were to tell
(43:38):
yourself, your younger self a message about food, what would
you tell your younger self? I would say to her that food is
self-care and an act of self love.
Well said. Thank you very much, Sammy.
My pleasure. This is a message that a lot of
us need to hear. But listening to yourself.
So the recurring theme in Mind Blend is clarity.
(44:03):
Like understanding yourself. And this is 1 aspect that we
don't all practice. Like we are not mindful of our
body, our actions, we're just doing.
So I think this is really important.
And I kind of preach this to my family here and there.
(44:23):
A lot of the things is it's the all or nothing.
I always say it doesn't have to be.
So all or nothing, all or nothing.
Don't overdo it, but don't completely cut it out.
Yeah, that's part of the intuitive.
Reason it is, yeah, Absolutely, yeah.
All right, I'll leave your information in the show notes so
people can check out your website.
(44:43):
I know you have your own podcastas well.
A lot of interesting message there.
It combines science and there's also spirituality and
psychology. So definitely check it out.
Yeah. Well, thank you very much.
My pleasure, it's been great, really enjoyed it.
Great, thanks for listening to this episode of Mind One.
(45:04):
If you enjoyed the conversation,don't forget to follow and share
it with anyone who needs to hearit.
And let's keep the conversation going.
Connect with me on LinkedIn or leave me a comment.
Until next time, stay curious, keep exploring, and let's
continue to burn our minds and discover what's possible.
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