Your Voice is a Superpower. Use it to Win - with Navin Jaitly - Mind Blend

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
How do you get into the customer's world and how do you
generally come from a place of service?
Because I think when you do that, you've got a much better
chance and people trust you more.
So here's something that may be really obvious.
Speaking is something that we doevery day.
I'm speaking right now on this podcast.

(00:21):
But not everyone speaks the sameway.
Some people definitely seem to be able to do it easier.
They're more powerful, they get their points across in a much
more confident and convincing way.
Why? So today on Mind Blend, I'm
joined by Navin Jaylee, a high performance coach who teaches
people how to speak with clarity, confidence and real

(00:44):
authority. Welcome to the show Mind Blend.
I'm your host, Karen Chong, and I'll be diving into the minds of
incredible people, each an expert in their very own way.
Together, we'll uncover insightsand share ideas so you can be
inspired and empowered to navigate your own unique journey
in life. Ready to get curious and

(01:06):
discover what's possible? Let's blend.
Hi Navin, welcome to Mine Blend.Hey, Karen, Yes, thank you for
having me. So as I know and as I've alluded
to, you're a confidence coach and award-winning speaker.
How did that all start? Yeah, sure, I can do it.

(01:26):
I can give you the, I'll give you the quick version of the
story. But basically I had a, I've had
a career in sales. So I was working in corporate
sales, you know, about 20 years ago I started and like most
people, I actually struggled at the beginning because sales
isn't an easy. Profession.
And I didn't really have much experience in that.
So I started there and I struggled and I basically was

(01:50):
going to get like one of the jobs I was working in.
I was going to basically get fired because I hadn't really
got anything in my pipeline. I hadn't really got any sales on
the board. And I remember going to one
meeting and in the meeting it went the worst possible.
I was meeting ACEO and I was like, this was deal was really
needed to keep me on track or tokeep me basically to keep me in

(02:11):
a job even. And it it didn't go well.
And he actually, he actually told me the meeting we're not
going to be buying from you. And it was the last meeting of
the day. And I remember going home that
night and thinking, you know, I might just had my resignation
notice in tomorrow. Like I'm not really enjoying
this sales game and I'm not doing very well in it.

(02:32):
And, and something in me just made me go actually, look, if I
quit this, you know, I might always be quitting things.
And you know, I think I've got some of the attributes needed to
be good at this. So let me sort it out.
And So what I decided to do is Ijust started to get into
personal development at the time.
And like I understood, you know,most people, not most people,

(02:53):
everybody was saying that if youwant to be top in anything, you
need to invest in yourself. So I knew my company wasn't
going to invest in me because atthe time I wasn't really
performing or performing to the level they needed me to.
So I decided out of my own moneyto invest in not just a sales
coach to help my selling skills,but I knew a lot of it was about
the game, the inner game, the mindset.

(03:14):
So I took out a mindset coach. Again, I'm giving you the
shorter version of the story. And within a short period of
time, I started doing a lot better.
And as a as the months went by, I started getting more and more
wins, better results, and eventually I became top of my
game. And for the rest of my sales
career, I was always in the top few percent of people.

(03:36):
So a few years ago, I wanted to start my entrepreneurial
journey. It was something I'd always
wanted to do. And it was one of those classics
During COVID. I thought now is the time to do
it. Yeah, that's a catalyst.
Yeah. It's a catalyst, right?
Yeah, Yeah, that time to reflectif you can actually now, now,
why not now? And I knew like I had got the
skills in sales. I, I really do my stuff there

(03:57):
and also what I'd done and I hadinvested a lot of my own
personal money and time in personal development, developing
myself. I did a performance coaching, a
qualification, which was, you know, a pretty intense 1.
So I also became a coach. And then I thought, look, let me
combine the two and let me coachand train people in the sales

(04:18):
world. So, you know, whether it's sales
or business development people in companies, that was my
original plan. But as I started my
entrepreneurial journey, what I realized is most other
entrepreneurs, they didn't know how to sell.
And that's why a lot of businesses, I mean, the stats in
the UK is one in two businesses fail every, some say three years
every, some say five years. And I'm a big believer that one

(04:41):
of the main reasons for that is they don't know how to sell,
right. So they've got a great product
or service, they're really good at what they do, but they're not
bringing the customers in. So basically for the last few
years, I've been helping sales and business development teams
within companies turn around their sales and also
entrepreneurs who want to get better at selling themselves.
And I've used that combination of skill set, sales skills,

(05:03):
influencing and speaking becausespeaking is one of the ways that
I myself have drummed up a lot of business.
I believe speaking is a great platform to get out there and
share your message. So if you're very impact driven,
which I am also as well, then speaking is great.
So really what I've been doing is providing the technical
skills in sales and speaking to my clients, but also a lot of

(05:28):
what I call the inner game of mindset.
So I have the tools and techniques of how to actually
get people what I call their most zone of genius, their most
flow state, where they're most confident.
OK. And that combination is what
gets results. And I think there's too much out
there that just focuses on one or the other.
I mean, you got a lot of mindsetcoaches out there which are

(05:50):
fantastic, but I think there is skillet.
I think there is still skill needed when it comes to
influence and sales and speaking.
And then you have a lot of people who teach the technical
stuff, which is very important, but they don't teach the inner
game of mindset. And what we do is what I do is I
do both. So that's how a nutshell of how
I got into. This.
So it's personal experience and then you yourself got some

(06:12):
coaching. Do you remember what were the
key problem areas when you were not really performing?
Yeah, sure. I mean, look, some of it was
just actually knowledge in some of the more advanced sales
skills because there are, you know, I can explain a few as
well. There are some technical skills
needed when selling and influencing people.

(06:35):
OK, now it's ranges from a few things like the types of
questions you're asking. I mean, for example, when I
wasn't selling so well, I'd go into meetings and I'd talk too
much and I'd be talking at customers.
I wouldn't be asking those really powerful questions to
uncover needs. That's just one example.
And then the big thing as well was that that inner game
confidence, because when you're not sales is very, it's very

(06:58):
ruthless in a way because there's no hiding, right?
It's a, it's a number. You're either hitting the
numbers or not hitting the numbers, and because of that,
when you're not hitting numbers,your confidence starts this up.
You start doubting yourself. Well, or you start, yeah, you
start doubting yourself or you start, you're not in this sort
of powerful state you need to be.
So when I wasn't selling as wellyears ago, now I look back at it

(07:20):
in particular, my confidence wasn't where it needed to be.
And The thing is, you could actually be still quite a
confident person. I I know a lot of confident
people. Like in my general life at the
time, I was actually had a decent amount of confidence when
I was in social situations. But there's a difference between
being like general level of confidence and when you're
selling a product and service, either as a professional sales

(07:43):
or business development person or running your own business.
I think there's confidence levelhave to be even higher and
elevated to really, really become successful or, or when
you're speaking on stage, right?Like how how many times you, you
probably know people and I know people who are really confident
when they're out with their friends out in a group
situation, stick them on stage and suddenly their confidence
stops. It's the same person, different

(08:06):
platform, suddenly the inner game changing.
So it asked you a question when it wasn't working as well.
For me it was a a combination oflacking some technical skills
and I'd say that inner game state, confidence, whatever you
want to call it. So I know you have a workshop
coming up in just less than a week, so I'm not going to ask
you everything that you're goingto talk about at the workshop,

(08:27):
but let's break down the technical skills because I know,
like for me personally, nervousness, anxiety is
definitely my biggest enemy. I feel like I was doing company
training and I know the materialvery well, but my voice was
trembling. Thank God it didn't come through
in the recording. So I think that might be one of

(08:48):
the big area for a lot of people.
Yes. Did you mean the anxiety side of
things? Mm hmm.
Yeah. Yeah, so look, everything
obviously different things for different people, different
people have reasons why, why they're being anxious.
And, and also, you know, depending on the situation.
I mean, I've, I've stood in front of hundreds of people and
spoke. And even though I'm an
experienced speaker and, and, and a very confident speaker on

(09:09):
stage, I mean, I generally don'tget that much anxiety.
But sometimes even I still will get a little bit of anxiety if
it's a, is a, if it's a, a situation that I really want to
go. Well, of course, a little bit of
nerves to remember are actually quite good because I know it's a
cliche saying, but it really shows you care.
If you don't care at all, you'renot going to get nerves.
So a little bit of nerves and anxiety is actually good.

(09:30):
I mean, I, I, I like sport and Ione of the sports I like
watching is boxing. And I always remember that one
of the famous boxing trainers custom auto, he said fear make
it your friend. Fear.
Anxiety goes fear is like a is like a fire.
It can keep you warm, right? But if it goes out of control,
it will burn you, right. And it's the same with anxiety.

(09:51):
So I always say little bits, little bits, fine.
But in terms of how to reduce that, like one of the things I
talk about when either sales or speaking, right, when you're,
you're going to jump on stage, you're going to be on a camera,
you're going to be on a whateverit is on LinkedIn, social media,
a virtual stage, an in person stage.
Or you're in a, in a meeting, you're pitching to people,

(10:13):
you're pitching for investment or you're in a sales meeting and
you're looking to influence someone.
All those situations can bring up a little bit of anxiety and
understandably so. And so one of the things I
always get my clients to do and get people to think about is
your deeper why? Your deeper why?
OK, yes. Why are you speaking at the
moment? What's so important about it?

(10:34):
So for example, I'll I'll keep it, I'll keep some examples to
myself and make it easier. When I'm speaking on stage, I'll
always remind myself, why am I speaking about this topic?
Why am I speaking about influence and sales and
confidence and mindset? And the reason is because I'm
passionate about them and they can help people.
So when you come from a place ofservice and helping, you almost

(10:56):
make it less about yourself and you make it more about your
audience, which naturally reduces your anxiety because
then you're not trying to perform, you're trying to.
Connect. Yeah, yeah, right.
Yeah, it's a different energy when you're trying to impress
and perform versus when you're trying to connect and help,
right? And when you're trying to
connect and help people feel that more important or just as

(11:17):
importantly, you actually feel less nervous because you're in a
different state. So one thing I will say is is
always remind yourself and I think anything you do, even in
your regular job, right? If you're connecting to a deeper
Y, right, that can really help. But some people say, well, I
haven't got such a spiritual powerful reason for my why I go,
it doesn't have to be. It could be you're doing this

(11:39):
because you have a family and you want to really provide well
for them and you realize this talk or this sale is going to
help do that, right? So it doesn't matter what the
why is, I think get in that why.The other thing related to that
is, again, always remember like what you're doing, how it helps.
So when I'm selling my products and services, when I'm speaking

(12:02):
on stage and I'm educating my audience and then promoting what
I do, I'm doing it from a place of this is going to help them.
Like the amount of business owners, the amount of people I
work with who are like so relieved when they're able to
start influencing and selling more, right?
It's it's life changing for themsometimes, right?
So, and I remember myself 20 years ago when I wasn't selling

(12:22):
and then when I did sell, the difference, it was like
financially just I was coming towork, enjoying work rather than
not enjoying it. You know, you're a happier
person. So where I'm going with this is
with my coaching services, The reason I can speak with so much
conviction and I'm not sort of standing there sitting there
thinking, oh, I hope they like me or I hope they don't think

(12:43):
I'm being too pushy. I'm like, no, I know that what
I've got is a value and as long as the other persons need it,
then it's my duty to, to tell them about it, to influence them
to be in my, my powerful state. And so kind of relate to the
first point, but knowing your why and knowing how you're going
to help people is really takes the pressure off you and stops

(13:05):
getting in your head and makes you come from a place of
service. And then the other thing I will
say is state management. State management.
Yeah, like sports people do it alot, right?
So they good look to get themselves into a peak state.
So a boxer before they're going to go in the ring, they want to
get in their most confident state.
A football player before they'regoing to take a penalty, they

(13:26):
want to get in that state of conviction, OK?
It's the same when you're speaking or selling, OK?
You want to be in a state of as much confidence as possible.
So one of the things I always say is like, I remember one of
my clients said like, what's thebest way to prepare for a
meeting or before or prepare fora talk on stage?
And I said, look, of course practice, know your stuff.

(13:46):
If you're going to know about your client, know about your
audience, all of that stuff is you have to do, but it's also
really important to be in a state of confidence.
So what I always get my what we can get people to do before
they're going to go on a stage or they're going to go into a
meeting is actually literally gothrough all their wins in their
head. Go through what makes them

(14:08):
great. Go through their if they're
selling a product and service, go through testimonials of like
clients who've just really benefited from that, right?
Write it down or go through in your head definitely before
you're going to go. But one of the things I
encourage my clients to do is dothis on a regular basis, like
once every few months. You should write down what's so
great about you, what's so greatabout your product and service.

(14:31):
And when you're then actually got tangible evidence, the brain
is always looking for evidence. You've got to remind yourself of
why you or your product or your service or what you're going to
speak about is so great. And if you combine that with how
is it going to help people and what's your deeper why, that
will get rid of 7080% of anxiety.

(14:52):
Then adding some other technicalskills on top, practicing and
things like that, that's going to help with the other 2030%.
But I always say like 70 to 80% of of performance of Speaking of
influencing of life, even it's in the brain.
Yeah, the going through your wins.
It's something I do as well. Not necessarily before a meeting

(15:14):
because I don't have a lot of speaking rules, but I save
little Slack messages. Amazing when people praises me.
Yeah, because like for what I do, project management, you
don't get the credit when a project goes well, you get
blamed when it fails. So yeah, that's a really, really
good confidence boost. Exactly.

(15:36):
So when someone is speaking and the people think, oh, this
person is good, what are some ofthose cues that we are
subconsciously responding to? So, yeah, I mean, look, really
good question and we respond to a few things, but one of the big
things is, and I think people don't realize it, you're
responding to someone's energy and energy is a bit of an
intangible. It's an aura.

(15:58):
But but we do, you know, forget about going to the science of
it, right? There's a lot of work now about
reading of energy and how peopleread each other's energy.
Now, I really believe that you are going to get influence for
people when they sound certain, right?
So if there's a speaker on stageor if you're in a sales meeting,
the person in front of you, if that salesperson or that speaker

(16:18):
sounds certain, is certain, thattransfers to you.
You feel more safe and you're more likely to be persuaded by
them or influenced by them. Yeah, if you're trying to sell
it something, you better believein the something yourself.
Yeah. And look, if I, if I'm ever
speaking to someone and they want to sell me something and I
think they don't even believe init properly, there is no chance
I'm going to, I'm going to want to work with them.

(16:39):
And if I'm listening to someone on stage and I'm like this
speaker, I don't think they would even believe in the
message they're speaking about. Again, I'm not going to be
influenced by it. So I know it sounds really
obvious, but it's that transfer of certainty.
And so when we are looking at great speakers without realizing
we are actually being, we're very convinced by what they're
saying. OK, then of course, it depends

(16:59):
on what they're saying as well, because we have to also agree
with some of their points or at least not even agree with them.
But think that was something different.
That was something that I didn'tthink about before.
So there is obviously the content, but it's more about the
delivery of that content and energy comes from some of the
things I just spoke about before.
Because if a speaker or a salesperson or anybody in

(17:21):
influential place is on stage isspeaking because they're coming
from a deeper sense of why, if they're coming because they're
trying to serve you rather than just get something over the line
or sell to you. If they're coming because they
really, you could tell they really rate themselves and
believe in what they're doing, the product, the service
themselves. That's going to be certainty.
You're going to feel that energyand you're going to want to,

(17:41):
you're going to be more likely to be impressed by them,
influenced by them. Then there are other things as
well, like, you know, the way they use their body, right?
The way they use their voice, right, the way that they use
their eye contact, right? So all of these things added to
the actual confidence of belief they're displaying as well as

(18:03):
the message they're giving is it's, it's what makes a speaker
greater. And just one thing to add to
that. When I say confidence state and
certainty, it doesn't mean you have to be a really loud jumping
up and down speaker or, or salesperson.
Sometimes there's a quiet confidence for some people, it
is that kind of high energy jumping, right?
For some people, it's actually more of a a calmer, quieter

(18:25):
confidence that that can be portrayed.
There's no right or wrong. It's just about if you feel that
that person is coming from a genuine place, if that person is
really certain about what they do and that person is very clear
about the the message they're giving, you're going to be much
more likely to to want to listento them.
I was thinking car salesman whenyou were answering because there

(18:49):
is too much sometimes car salesman or salespeople, they
have a reputation of just wanting to sell you something.
They are very confident. They are very high energy most
of the time. But why do they turn us off?
Yeah, why do we have such a perception?
It's a really good. Question our sales people.
I'll tell you what it is, Karen.I mean, first of all, if I tell

(19:11):
you some stats, you'll probably be surprised.
So 48% of sales people across all industries completely fail
at their job. I'm not, I'm not talking about
48%, right? This is through some extensive
research that I looked at. 48% fail.
So I'm not talking about, I'm not doing very well.
I mean, you need to get rid of them within one year.
OK, so that just shows you that most actual sales people are,

(19:32):
sorry to say, are pretty rubbish.
OK, Then another 32% are not terrible, but they're sort of
struggling, OK, They've hit targets regularly.
So only 20% of sales people are very good and all those 20%,
only 6% are elite. OK, so first of all, the reason
why we get turned off by a lot of salespeople is most of them
aren't very good. So you're being exposed to a lot

(19:54):
of not so good a profession where not most people are not
very good. So naturally you're going to
have bad experiences. But then again, the second thing
is I think that, well, there's acouple of things.
Human nature is to be sceptical.Yeah.
It's a it's a protection mechanism.
It's a survival. Mechanism and, and you know,

(20:14):
going back to even some of the points I made earlier, like
we've evolved, you know, from being Cavemen and women, right?
Like we've been around for a couple of 100,000 years.
We've only really lived in this kind of civilization for the
last 5006 thousand years and even modern day civilization
probably the last 100 years or so.
So we have been, you know, if wethink about it, we only live
like we're living like now for 5minutes really.

(20:35):
We've been living mostly in caves and in very dangerous
situations. And so we've evolved to spot
danger, stand for danger, because it kept us safe.
So that's why, you know, we typically also have a tendency
to reflect on the negative and the positive.
That's why I say things like witness are very important
because we'll be very quick to criticize ourselves and beat

(20:56):
ourselves up when we do something wrong.
But we'll find it much more difficult to kind of praise
ourselves and look at what we'regreat at.
So without going into too many points, going back to why we're
skeptical and we're looking, it's, it's a survival mechanism
now. We're not 50,000 years ago when
we were on the Savannah looking out for a lion.
That's not what we need to survive now.
Now it's I'm speaking to you. What do you want from me?

(21:19):
What, why should I not trust you?
What are you just trying to get from me?
You're just trying to sell me something so you can make money
out of me. So we're sceptical.
So we've got a combination of quite a few salespeople not
being very good at what they do.Then naturally we're sceptical.
Like sometimes somebody is just being genuine and they really
believe in that. They can help you, right?
But we're still going to have a level of skepticism.

(21:41):
So that's the other thing. And then the third thing is I
think most and even some of the good ones, there's still too
much in the energy of trying to get something from you rather
than trying to serve you. And that's one thing I will say
to my clients, go into service, because when you're in service,
I, I think people just pick up on it.
They just trust you more. They're, they're, they can see

(22:02):
that you're not just trying to sell them something for your
benefit, you're trying to sell something for their benefit.
I think people will pick up on that and as a result, they will
trust more. So most of the time, you know,
most sales people you come across aren't doing it for your
benefit, they're doing it for theirs.
And so one of the things, you know, I always go into and talk

(22:24):
and train and teach about is howdo you get into the customer's
world and how do you generally come from a place of service?
Because I think when you do that, you've got a much better
chance and people trust you more.
Yeah, think about the disservicethat not being able to speak
convincingly and confidently dueto someone you couldn't know the
materials very well. You could be genuine, but that's

(22:47):
not coming across. Yeah, I mean, totally.
I mean, I know some people who've got some great content,
really good at what they do. It actually happened to me a few
weeks ago. I went to a business event, OK,
where there is, it was quite a large business event.
And the guy, he is a business coach, really, really successful
one. And part of what he did is he
gave people like a they could put their name in the hat if

(23:10):
they wanted to, and they could come up and get live coaching on
stage on the business. And one of the guys, yeah,
really, really good. Interesting.
Yeah. One of the guys said there was
about probably 300 people in theroom, 3400 people in the room,
and it was a stage. And the, the, the coach got one
of the guys on stage who'd put his name forward.
And the guy was a, he was a coach himself and he coached on

(23:32):
limiting beliefs. So his coaching business was I
help people get rid of the limiting beliefs he got on stage
and he just, he couldn't articulate what he was saying.
He, he just sounded confusing tothe audience.
He didn't even sound that confident and even like his
words and and his, his delivery was a little bit, it wasn't
clear it was all messed up. It was not in any sort of order.

(23:55):
And actually, I remember sittingthere thinking, and I was
thinking this, and I'm sure the rest of the audience were
thinking, I'm sure he's probablya really good coach, getting rid
of people's liberty beliefs. But because he couldn't
articulate it well, you actuallylost credibility for him as a
coach. I actually, I actually thought,
I don't think I'd actually use this service here if I was
someone who needed it. So where I'm going with that is

(24:16):
it's real. It's really important to learn
to speak because sometimes you have something really powerful
to give to the world. And because you can't speak or
sell, because I call them the same thing, then you're, you
know, you're doing yourself injustice and potentially
someone who could really benefitfrom your service or product
isn't benefiting from it. It's really important.
It's really, really important. I think with this world of AI

(24:38):
that we're going into, right, where AI to a certain degree can
be a great equalizer and make usmore productive and efficient
and everything. I mean, we don't know how how
much AI is going to advance. But certainly for the time
being, I do think that if you have an ability to speak,
connect and influence people, you stand out exactly.
And you will stand out in the AIworld.
Exactly. Because there needs to be some

(24:59):
real time in person exchange andthey know you're not talking
looking at an AI, like asking AIthis question and answering
after looking at the AI answer. So for that person who was not
very cohesive, that reminded me of when that happened to me.
Because there's not enough thinking time or there's a lag

(25:20):
between me formulating the thought to it coming out.
There's not enough time to process that in real time.
So it comes out not cohesive. What's some things we can do to
tackle that? Well, I think a lot of the
things that I spoke about earlier, I think when you're in
the right state and you're coming mentally from a different
place that that starts naturallygoing down less because you're

(25:43):
less in your mind, you're less in your head, you're more in
your body, right? So that's why it's something
that you should constantly work on because if you just do it
like an hour before a talk, it'snot ingrained in you enough.
So I'm a big believer in so a lot of the stuff I talk about
mindset, I'm a believer just like we go to the gym, you know,
a few times a week and work out because we want to get healthy

(26:05):
and a good body and etcetera. We need to do the same with our
mind, right? And I think people will see
something that mindset is something that you just do once
in a while. And I'm like, but you wouldn't
go to the gym just once in a while and expect good results,
right? You, you like, you see the logic
in going whatever, minimum threetimes a week or whatever it is,
right? Why are we not doing something
similar with our mindset? So when you do that, what you

(26:28):
just mentioned there, where there's no cohesion, you know,
like what you're what you're thinking, what you're saying is
not coming out the same. That will massively improve.
But then of course, learning some of those skills, learning
to breathe, learning to pause, learning to speak in a certain
way, the technical skills that helps as well.
But I I just really being believed, Karen, that it all
begins like with your state and in the mind and you need to get

(26:52):
that foundation right. So when I speak on stage, for
example, I'm so into my service,I'm so confident in what I do
works that I'm not standing there most well, in fact, all
the time I'm never, I'm not really standing there going.
I hope they like me. I hope this is coming across
well. Like I want it to come across
well, don't get me wrong, But I'm not sort of sitting there in
that energy. I hope I don't look like I'm

(27:12):
trying to oversell myself. I'm just going out there being
natural and some people are not going to like that and and I'm
OK with that. I mean, actually that's
something else I should mention.Not everyone's always going to
like you. So I think the the people
generally in life are. Just accept that.
Yeah. I think if you just get
comfortable with not everybody, whether that's in personal life,
business life, in a meeting on stage, not everyone's going to

(27:34):
like your delivery style. But you're not trying to make
everyone like you. You're trying to connect with a
certain people that you think need that message and resonate
with that message. Because if he's constantly
sitting there or standing there thinking about I hope everyone
likes me and everything and I hope every single person gets
me, it's going to be really difficult.
Yeah, it's not realistic and it just adds to the I hope they

(27:55):
like me being the focus of your mind instead of I'm going to try
to help these people with what Ihave to say.
So let's talk about body language because I have seen so
many videos about gestures that generally make people look
confident. What are some of those?
Yeah. I mean, I've studied body
language and I've listened to different speakers about body

(28:15):
language and people have slightly different things.
So I find what works for me and what I've, when I've educated
clients about, so they say it works for them.
So I personally believe it Fill fill the space.
OK. Right.
So let's say you're on stage like Stan, like you're, you
know, you're proud and you own that stage.
Don't, you know, shrink your shoulders and sort of shrink

(28:37):
yourself, like own the space, like physically stand up and
feel more space in that stage. It sounds, sounds a bit weird,
but it, it really, it really looks confident.
It and also what it does, it sends a message to you like, you
know, we've, I can't remember who the person was.
One of the, the coaches out there said that if you stand
with your hands and your hips, you actually like your brain

(28:58):
gets a signal and and it makes you feel more confident.
It's a Physiology thing, right? So get in the right posture,
feel space, go bigger, Don't, don't shrink that.
That makes a massive difference,right.
And then like I say, use all your body when you're speaking.
Like I see some speakers and actually their, their voice is
pretty strong and pretty good, but they're just, they're just

(29:18):
not using their arms. They're not using their hands,
they're not using any gestures. They're they're really sort of
stuck in one place. And I just think that makes them
less powerful. So use your body, use your hand
gestures, use your arms, you know, use, use, use.
It's not just your voice, it's your body when you're speaking,
right? It's especially when like it's
different when you're on a recorded podcast or when you're,

(29:39):
you know, behind a camera, you maybe the body becomes less
important, right? But when you're especially on a
live stage and people can physically see you, you've got
to think about your body as well.
Is it because it's more natural if you use your whole body?
It's more natural, it's more memorable.
Like we, I mean, if UK goes backto a big believer in looking at
evolution, we learnt to use our bodies before humans learn

(30:00):
language, right. So you think that I don't know
when, when it was, but say 50,100 thousand years ago before
we could speak, a lot of time you're using gestures with each
other. So we're hard wired to actually
want to see some of those gestures.
So now we obviously learn language.
But if you can combine that withsome powerful body language as
well as what you say, of course it makes a difference.

(30:20):
Things about like using your eyes, I mean, they say like eyes
are the window to the soul. The eyes never lie and stuff
like use your eyes, right? Like I, when I, when I'm
speaking, I, I will look at the audience, I look into the eyes,
right? And what a lot of people do is
either look into sort of space, which isn't great, or they'll
scan the audience, right? And they don't actually look at

(30:41):
anyone properly. So one of the techniques I would
say is when you're speaking as you're speaking, every few,
every so often look at one person and say a point and, and
just say it to that one person, even as an audience of 100, then
change, move to another person. Then maybe mix it up and scan a
bit. But let's say, you know, if I do
a talk and I did a talk with a couple of 100 people, I will.
And that talk was 15 minutes. Within that 15 minutes, I'll

(31:05):
make sure that at least about 15people, I held eye contact with
him for a few seconds. Not enough to make you look
weird, right? But enough to be like they,
they, they felt you. Because eyes are really number
one. It shows confidence and #2 you
connect with those 15 people, even if there's 15, you will
connect with them and the audience will feel that they've

(31:25):
gained energy, will feel those 15 people being connected with,
and they'll feel more connected as well.
And then a couple of more thingswhen you're moving, because
people talk about moving, when Isaid about earlier, you know,
use your body, but don't overly fidget.
And what I say is when you move,the best way to speak is you
stand still, you deliver a point, then you move.

(31:46):
You actually physically move, but you do it with conviction,
right? And then you speak again.
So maybe you mean move four or five times in a talk, but you do
it with conviction. You're not shuffling around.
And I see some people when they speak and sort of shuffling
around or aimlessly wandering and they're constantly moving
and that actually then loses thethe value and the power.
So yeah, there there. I mean, there's lots of other

(32:07):
things as well, but there are some of the the main things when
it comes to body language like use your body, use it well.
What are some of the no Nos whenit comes to gesture you said?
Like don't be overly fidgety, don't just be moving around with
no purpose. What are some other one?
Let's say we're in a one-on-one conversation.
OK, so with A1 on one conversation, I think it's

(32:28):
really important to like, there's a certain level of
mirroring the other person, right?
Not mirroring them to the point where you're being like a
parrot, but you know, just, you know, just slightly, you know,
you want to be In Sync with them, right?
You want to be In Sync with their body language, their pace
of talk, right? One of the things we, we talk
about is, is disc personality styles, which is, you know, I

(32:50):
won't go into that too much. And different personalities,
they're actually sometimes will speak at different speeds.
OK, I'm quite a naturally fast speaker, OK, The, the words come
out of my mouth naturally quite quickly.
So I have to sometimes remember,I have to consciously remember
if I'm speaking with someone whospeaks a lot slowly than me, I
have to actually slow down. I have to go against my natural,

(33:12):
you know, my natural speaking style, which is fine.
A little bit of adjusting is fine.
OK, If I'm speaking though in front of somebody who's really
quick speaking and thinking and talking, it's fine, right?
Match them. So I think one of the things is
you want to you want to really get In Sync with the person
you're with one-on-one. Also, I mean, this is kind of
going outside speaking now, but this is going more into like

(33:33):
pure speaking. This is going into the more
realms of actually selling like you want to ask really powerful
questions and you want to listen, right?
Because, you know, research has shown this as well.
And in fact, we used to, in fact, we still sort of use a
tool where we used to record people's conversations in a
sales conversation. And then what we found is that

(33:54):
the, when the salesperson, well,you know, whoever that is, you
know, business owners selling their products and services,
when they spoke a lot more than the customer, the sale didn't
happen. When they're speaking to
listening with about 5050 and even more of this maybe the
customer's favour, where the customer spoke more than the
salesperson, the sale happened. So one of the things is, is

(34:16):
like, now I'm speaking, right, You're interviewing me.
So I'm very much in a speaking mode.
If I was having a sales conversation, I'll be asking
much more questions. I'll be speaking less, not, not
totally not speaking, speaking less.
And I'll be trying to find out more from the customer.
So that's not quite speaking itself.
That's more selling. And yeah, so the the no no's or

(34:36):
you know, are, are to, to not ifyou're not matching, that's a
really bad no no. And all all the other things I
said earlier, if you're trying to just sell somebody something
right, if you're making it all about yourself, if you're more
worried about whether they like you or not, the whether you can
connect with them, whether you can serve them, these are all no

(34:57):
no's. These are all going to affect
your ability to speak, your ability to sell, your ability to
be successful. So recording for conversations
for training purposes is real. Like when you call customer
service, that's always the disclaimer.
Yeah, they. So that is they.
Do use it sometimes, not all thetime.
Yeah, they do use it. So something that I've been

(35:20):
interested in, language and accents, sometimes people are
not very confident because they don't speak English very well or
they have accents that make it hard to understand, that hurts
their confidence subconsciously.Have you handled clients like
that? It's again a really good

(35:40):
question. I mean, there's, there's a
couple of responses here. I mean, you can have accent
training. I don't do that, but there are
accent coaches, accent trainers out there and that certainly
will help. So you could do something about
it in that sense. But what I've said to clients,
so I've had clients, but remember one of the, it actually
happened a few months ago, one of my clients, she's an E
European lady. And she said that, she said, I

(36:02):
feel like I don't feel very confident in my English,
especially my accent. And again, it goes back to
mindset. I said actually your accent
helps you stand out like you're memorable.
Right. Memorable, I said.
In a way. I'm in London.
My accent is just normal. My accent isn't memorable at
all, like when I'm here in the UK.

(36:22):
So you can flip the script in your mind, you can go from, you
know, my accent is going to makeme look like stand out in a bad
way. People won't understand me to
actually my accent is always going to make me memorable and
stand out, which is what we always really want to do.
So I think one thing is, again, flip it in your mind, because if
you're going there and you're conscious about your accent,

(36:45):
it's not the accent that's goingto make you actually lose the
the sale or the speech. It's the consciousness about it.
That's going to be the fact thatyou're worried about it.
That's what's going to lose it. But if you flip that script to
actually, I love my accent beingdifferent, it's going to be my
superpower. It's actually what's going to
make me stand out. You're now going to speak with
more confidence and ironically, the accent is not going to be a

(37:07):
problem at all. So that I would say is the main
thing. But of course, it depends on how
you know how like unclear your accent is or how with your level
of English, I guess. But obviously then you can have
accent training and English training.
But I, I do believe, again, a lot of it's in the mind.
Don't, don't think of it as a asa hindrance.
Think of it as a superpower. I love that I tend to, when I

(37:30):
learn new languages, I want to speak it in the perfect accent
to that language. So I'm really glad that you
pointed that out because I I've known so many people who that is
sort of a hindrance for themselves, but there are also
people with worse accents than them that are more confident
than. Them yeah, 100% and and just one

(37:51):
little thing to add there. You said the word perfection.
So one of the things I actually say one of my older mentors used
to say that perfection can be poverty.
What they meant by that, if you're always trying to do the
perfect speech, the perfect talklike, so I'll, I'll take you to
a sales situation because obviously we work with sales
teams and people like if you're about to do something like a,

(38:13):
you know, call, call a customer or cold call or anything like
that. If you're constantly looking for
the perfect script, you're not going to make calls right now.
Just if we look at math here, right, you've got two people and
one guy makes 5 calls which he thinks are perfect, OK.
And the other guy makes 50 calls, which aren't bad.

(38:35):
They're not, but they're not perfect.
They're just good. OK?
Even the guy who makes 5 perfectcalls, not everyone's going to
buy from them, right? Let's say he still has a pretty
good rate because it's perfect and four people buy from him.
Three people. So he's made four sales.
OK? The other guy who made 50 calls
of a good, not great, but good, even if only 20% of the people

(38:58):
buy from him are still 10 people, he still outperformed
the guy who did perfect right. So that's where perfection
becomes poverty. And that's where sometimes
people could just procrastinate over things and action is always
the thing that's going to win. So I always say get to a very
good level. I, I, I don't believe in, never
put anything out there that's rubbish.
Never go and do a talk that's rubbish.
Never, never do anything like that.

(39:18):
But sometimes get to a good enough state, right?
And then you don't have to be perfect, because the
perfection's actually going to make you get not take action,
which ironically is going to stop you getting the results you
want to, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.
The goal is not to be perfect. The goal is to make the sale.
So going back to what you said earlier, your mindset, you are

(39:40):
helping this person by telling this person what you have to
say, what service you provide and that put you in a totally
different state. Exactly and and and the other
state is of course and be abundant.
Be abundant. Yeah, it's, it's so true that
when you, when you are like for example, your business is doing
really well, right? You don't, you don't or your, if

(40:02):
you're a salesperson, your sellers are going really well.
You don't need that sale as you're not as desperate and you
actually walk away from things and people feel that and
actually ironically want to do business with you.
Right. So it's a bit of a, it's a bit
of a vicious loop because the more successful you are, the
more you can do that. The less successful you are, the
more you're in kind of that lackmentality which.
Yeah, I need everything. Which drives people away.

(40:22):
So there it is difficult, but one thing.
And this is where again, it's probably a talk for another day,
but you can trick your brain andyou can get it to feel that it's
abundant even when it quite isn't yet.
And if you go with, that's why Ithink faith and belief is really
important, because if you just walk around like thinking that
you know what, maybe it's not great at the moment or it's not

(40:43):
perfect yet, but everything's going to work out fine.
That's a kind of an abundant mentality, right?
And you and then eventually by taking action and not being
desperate, you will get the results you want.
Yeah, yeah. Not being desperate, definitely.
It works for everything. If you're trying to find a new
flat, you're trying to find a new job A.
New partner, A romantic partner.Like, nobody wants somebody

(41:04):
who's desperate, right? Yeah, because they will also
think you're only taking me because you're desperate.
So I'm definitely not going to buy from you.
I'm definitely not going to go out with you.
Exactly. Great.
So you mentioned technical skills quite a few times.
Is that what you're going to talk about at your workshop next
week? Yeah.
So we're going to we're going todo a few things in a workshop.

(41:26):
I mean, should I tell the audience a little bit about the
workshop? Yeah, let's do that, but keep
listening because we are going to do rapid fire later.
OK, yes, so on the first Monday,the 1st of December at to the
London Chamber of Commerce, we're doing an in person
workshop called Speak to Influence.
And I say we because it's going to be myself and the London

(41:46):
president of the Professional Speakers Association, very
talented lady or she very experienced.
Speaker And the reason we put iton, Karen, is we know we know
that a lot of people are either struggling or not where they
want to be when it comes to speaking and when it comes to
influencing, right? So what we're going to do, we're
going to cover the technical skills of speaking, but not just

(42:07):
speaking to speak well, but speaking to influence.
So that whether you're speaking on stage, whether you're
speaking on a, you know, on social media behind a camera or
whether you're in a sales call or meeting, you're going to be
much, much better and getting the results you want.
Whether that's connecting with people, influencing people,
impacting people. And what we're going to do is

(42:29):
we're going to go through some of those mindset areas that I
spoke about. We're also going to talk, we're
also going to look at some of the techniques that involved
that you can use to become really good in all those areas.
So it's, it's a very good workshop because I think it's
people who want to come there, who want to improve their
speaking skills, but also they're influencing skills,
right? This is going to be really, this
is what it's designed for. It's to tackle both and the

(42:51):
other thing is we're going to keep it very hands on and
practical. So we want it to be that people
who come that day, it's not justall theory.
We are going to give and it's all you don't have to.
We're going to give people the opportunity to actually practice
their pitch, a quick talk, a role play of a sales
conversation. So we will teach the skills and
then we'll get people to practice it and give them real
time feedback. So that for example, just I was

(43:13):
at a networking event the other day, one of the entrepreneurs I
met said he's currently looking to raise funding and he's doing
a lot of pitches in front of investors and he's not getting
the funding. I said, look, come along to this
workshop because we'll be teaching you some of the skills
there. And you can also practice if you
want to, no obligation. You can practice your pitch and
we can critique it so that when you then go out in the real

(43:34):
world, you're in a much better position to get the result you
want. So, you know, then you signed
up. So it's a really powerful
workshop because of what we're going to be teaching and also
because the fact that it's very practical and hands on.
And yeah, we're looking really forward to it.
So if anyone is interested in that, then just connect with me.
I'm on LinkedIn, Navin Jaitly, NAVINJAITLY or Instagram as well

(43:59):
and either drop me Adm or you can e-mail me which is Navin
Jaitley coaching@outlook.com. So there's a few different ways
there and I, you know, can send the details, but we've got a few
spaces left and I'm looking veryforward to.
It yeah, I would have your information, all the contact
details in the show notes as well.
And for those who are lucky enough to be London or close

(44:21):
enough to London, definitely give it a try because Christmas
is coming, there's a lot of holiday parties, family
gathering. You can be more confident with
your family too. True.
All right, let's do rapid fire. Sure, go for it.
Is there something that people always get wrong when they're

(44:41):
speaking or selling that drives you crazy?
OK, so for when they're speaking, it's when some of the
things that they do like they don't, they mumble, they don't
own their body and they don't speak with confidence like that,
that that could hurt me. But when they're selling, it's
when they talk too much and theydon't ask powerful questions and
they don't listen like I, I've, I get sold too, of course,

(45:04):
right. I've actually, sometimes I was
getting sold on the phone the other day and actually stopped
them and said, look, just to give you a couple of tips.
This is where you're, you're kind of going wrong with selling
to me. And they were like, Oh my God,
thank you. But yeah.
Yeah. Thank you.
So yeah, there there are a couple of things.
I mean, just on the top of my head there are the two things I
can think of. OK, next one.
Was there a funny speaking mishap in your life that now you

(45:29):
always mention it as a joke to family gatherings?
It wasn't a mishap, but it was something that happened so years
ago. I was going to speak, but just
before I went on there, there was a, a lady who who went just
before me and part of her talk she, she did, she started
singing right, like at the end of it.
But The thing is, her voice was terrible, right, right.

(45:51):
And everybody in the audience, you could tell was sort of, you
know what everyone's kind of looking at each other like, I
mean, I'm, I'm talking about terrible, right?
And I, I didn't, my, my humour is something like if, if
something's like in that situation where you can't laugh,
it makes me kind of laugh insideeven more because I'm trying to
hold my laughing. And, you know, I was really
trying to hold it in because I was the next speaker on stage,

(46:12):
so everyone could see my face and I was putting my hand over
my face to, you know, I was, I was basically feeling what
everyone else was. And then I was next on.
So I was next on. I start speaking, but I couldn't
get that on my head. So throughout my talk, I just
had this big smirk on my face. And the audience, I think they
knew why I, I had that smirk andI was really trying to get rid
of it because I thought this is now looking really

(46:32):
inappropriate. But I, I, I actually couldn't.
So that's something I always remember.
It was funnier at the time. When I'm explaining it, it never
sounds as funny, but at the timeit was like it was really funny.
I can. I can see why, yeah.
I hope it went well though. It went well.
I just like, I think I just looked like I was smiling the
whole way through. I mean, maybe the thought was
very friendly, but I think some of them knew why I was smiling

(46:52):
as well. Yeah, that makes it funnier.
OK, next one. What's a phrase that you find
yourself repeatedly saying to the clients you're coaching?
Oh, that's a good one. First thing, I mean, well,
rather than a phrase, I think there's a, there's a sort of a
consistent message. I always give people what I'm

(47:12):
coaching and that is number 1. And I really do believe that to
be successful in life, I actually genuinely think this is
probably the most important thing.
Well, equal important thing, which is believe in yourself,
right? Believe in yourself or your
product or your service, becauseultimately that's what it comes
down to. So I'm always trying to give
them skills, techniques to believe in themselves, work on

(47:34):
their mindset, but but just generally remember that right
back yourself. And I think belief is so, so
important. The other thing, which when I
said equal importance is clarity.
I think if somebody really knowsthemselves and knows what they
want and have a, I'm not talkingabout, you know, inappropriate
level of a belief, belief with acocky and anything like that.
I mean, just generally a solid belief.

(47:56):
I really do believe that they they can be successful.
So that's that's something. And then the other thing when
I'm, when I'm, I'm always reminding my clients is ask
powerful questions. When you're selling, try to
think, in fact, claim yourself that you're in a situation if a
client throws you a rejection, if you make a statement, always
try to think what's the next best question to ask in this

(48:19):
situation rather than just the next best thing to say because
people are over talk over justify oversell.
Asking questions makes the client or the person who you're
speaking to, they think about this situation more deeply.
That's much more powerful. There's a there's a, there's a
saying in sales which says telling isn't selling.

(48:41):
If I just stood there, if I justsaid to you, Karen, This is why
you need me. This is why you should you, you
actually probably defensive barriers up.
But if I, if I asked you the question, why do you think right
now you need sales trading or sales coaching?
Like very simple thing, very simple example here that's
making you think about why you need it.
Now, I'm not trying to sell to you.
I'm getting you to think about whether you need it or not.

(49:02):
So yeah, there's a couple of things.
Believe in yourself and ask powerful questions.
That's the power of the why, allright?
If you didn't get into sales norcoaching, what would you be
doing? Oh, it's a really good one.
I to be honest, I can't think of, I mean, I think speaking,
I've always enjoyed speaking. OK Sales is my 20 years in sales

(49:25):
built into a career and, and coaching and, and mindset and
understanding humans is, is something I'm passionate about.
So I'm very lucky that I do all three things.
And honestly, I, I don't really think I can't see myself.
It's a really difficult one to, to know what else I would be
doing. I think researching as well.
I, I love reading. So I probably, obviously you

(49:46):
can't, you can't make a living from just reading, but I think
probably researching. Well, honestly, I, I so love
what I do. And, and I've built up a very
good level of skill in those areas that I can't imagine me
doing something else. And I love people and I love
helping people. So yeah, I.
Maybe something in that, but yeah, helping people.
Yeah, which is the coaching sideof what I do, right.

(50:07):
So the the coaching is the helping.
So yeah, it's, it's a good question, but I, I really can't
imagine myself doing anything different now.
So it may be something that is in a a form of coaching.
Yeah, or a. Form of sales.
Yeah, definitely, definitely something along the lines of of
developing people, right. It's quite funny because my

(50:27):
grandparents, my granddad was a teacher, one of my granddads and
my other granddad was I. Was thinking teaching, but yeah,
maybe teaching. Well, he was a teacher and my
other granddad was a run a gold business, right?
A gold shop. So gold.
Business like. A gold shop, right.
So, so I think that that combination of business and
education, it's kind of, I guessyou could say in my blood and

(50:50):
what I do now is effectively both, right?
I'm running a business. So, you know, I have, it's very
professional, a business and thethings you need to do as a
business. But I'm, I'm coaching, training
and teaching people, which is the teacher side.
And, and it's that combination that I love because, and I'm
helping them do the same becauseI'm helping develop them, but
I'm also helping them to make more revenue income and grow

(51:12):
their business. And so I feel like that
combination is, is something that I'm, I'm really interested
in and, and, and, and doing whatI, I should be doing.
That's nice, but it's the natureand nurture.
Yeah, yeah. You have it in your nature and
you're nurturing it. Exactly, and I do believe that's
what people should try to do. Find your natural gifts and

(51:32):
double down on them. Yeah, right.
Well, thank you very much for speaking to me.
Thank you for having. Myself has learned a few things.
I enjoyed that. It really is really good
questions as well. So I enjoyed, I enjoyed that.
But thank you, I try to ask powerful questions as well.
No, you do. You do very much.
All right, so anyone in London are close enough, I'm going to
leave information about the workshop in the show notes.

(51:55):
Definitely check it out or get in touch with Nevin.
Yeah, sure. And even if anybody wants to
just talk about, you know, developing their business as
well, like I said, I work with entrepreneurs.
I also work with businesses who have business sales team.
So if anybody wants to talk about coaching but with me, or
do you want to even discuss something, feel free to connect.
Great. Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me, Karen. Thanks for listening to this

(52:20):
episode of Mind One. If you enjoyed the conversation,
don't forget to follow and shareit with anyone who needs to hear
it. And let's keep the conversation
going. Connect with me on LinkedIn or
leave me a comment. Until next time, stay curious,
keep exploring, and let's continue to plan our minds and
discover what's possible.

All Episodes

Your Voice is a Superpower. Use it to Win - with Navin Jaitly

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Burden

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Your Voice is a Superpower. Use it to Win - with Navin Jaitly