October 22, 2025 • 29 mins
A surreal sci-fi series exploring speculative concepts, dreams, and philosophical what-ifs. Each episode is a cerebral journey into the mind’s deepest questions. Explore a world of immersive, ad-free audio experiences from nature sounds to timeless stories at https://www.adfreesounds.com
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
I think.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
My w This is Michael Hanson with a mind Web
(01:03):
story from the selected works of Stephen Vincent Benay, copyright
by Holt, Reinhardt and Winston, nineteen thirty seven. This is
by the waters of Babylon, or the place of the gods.
O The north and the west and the south are
good hunting ground. But it is forbidden to go east.
(01:23):
It is forbidden to go to any of the dead
places except to search for metal. And then he who
touches the metal must be a priest or the son
of a priest. Afterward, both the man and the metal
must be purified. These are the rules and the laws.
They are well made. It is forbidden to cross the
Great River and look upon the place that was the
(01:44):
place of the gods. This is most strictly forbidden. We
do not even say its name, though we know its name.
It is there that spirits live and Veemon's. Is there
that there are the ashes of the great burning. These
things are forbidden. They have been forbidden since the beginning
of time. My father is a priest. I am the
(02:05):
son of a priest. I have been in the dead
places nearest with my father. At first, I was afraid
when my father went into the house to search for
the metal. I stood by the door, and my heart
felt small and weak. It was a dead man's house,
his spirit house did not have the smell of man.
Though they were old bones in the corner. But it
is not fitting that a priest's son should show fear.
(02:28):
I looked at the bones in the shadow and kept
my voice still. Then my father came out with a metal,
a good strong piece. He looked at me with both eyes,
but I had not run away. He gave me the
metal to hold. I took it and did not die,
so he knew that I was truly his son, who
would be a priest in my time. That was when
(02:49):
I was very young. Nevertheless, my brothers would not have
done it, though they are good hunters. After that, they
gave me the good piece of meat in the warm
corner by the fire. My father watched over me. He
was glad that I should be a priest. But when
I boasted or wept without reason, he punished me more
strictly than my brothers.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
That was right.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
After a time, I myself was allowed to go into
the dead houses and search for metal. So I learned
the ways of those houses and if I saw bones,
I was no longer afraid. The bones are light and old.
Sometimes it would fall to dust if you touch them.
But that is a great scene. I was taught the
chants and the spells. I was taught how to stop
(03:33):
the running of blood from the wound, and many secrets.
A priest must know many secrets. That was what my
father said when I was a man. At last, I
came to my father and said it was time for
me to go on my journey. Give me leave. He
looked at me for a long time, stroking his beard,
and then he said, at last.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yes, it is time.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
That night, in the house of priesthood, I asked for
and received purification. My body hurt, but my spirit was
a cool stone. It was my father himself who questioned
me about my dreams. He bade me look into the
smoke of the fire and see. And I saw, and
told what I saw it was what I have always seen.
A river, and beyond it a great dead place, and
(04:21):
in it the gods walking. I have always thought about that.
His eyes were stern when I told him was no
longer my father but a priest, And he said, this
is a strong dream. It is mine. I said, while
the smoke waved and my head felt light. They were
singing the star song in the outer chamber. It was
(04:43):
like the buzzing of bees in my head. He asked
me how the gods were dressed, and I told him
how they were dressed. We know how they were dressed
from the book, but I saw them as if they
were before me. When I had finished, he threw the
sticks three times and studied them as they fell.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
This is a very strong dream. It may eat you up.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I'm not afraid, I said, and looked at him with
both eyes. My voice sounded thin in my ears, but
that was because of the smoke. He touched me.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
On the breast and foreidly gave me the bow and
three arrows. Take them. It is forbidden to travel east.
It is forbidden to cross the Great River. It is
forbidden to go to the place of the gods. All
these things are forbidden. All these things are forbidden, I said.
(05:34):
But it was my voice that spoke, and not my spirit.
He looked at me again, My son, once I had
young dreams. If your dream does not eat you up,
you may be a great priest. If it eats you,
you are still my son. Now go on your journey,
(06:00):
as is the log.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
My body hurt, but not my heart. When the dawn came,
I was out of side of the village. I prayed
and purified myself, waiting for a sign. The sign was
an eagle. It flew east. Sometimes signs are sent by
bad spirits. I waited again on the flat rock, fasting,
taking no food. I was very still. I could feel
(06:25):
the sky above me and the earth beneath. I waited
till the sun was beginning to sink. Then three deer
passed in the valley, going east. They did not wind
me or see me. There was a white fawn with them,
a very great sign. I followed them at a distance,
waiting for what would happen. My heart was troubled about
(06:47):
going east, yet I knew that I must go. My
head hummed with my fasting. I did not even see
the panthers spring upon the white fawn. But before I
knew it, the bow was in my hand. I shouted,
and the panther looked at his head in the fawn.
It is not easy to kill a panther with one arrow,
but the arrow went to his eye and into his brain.
(07:07):
He died as he tried to spring. He rolled over,
tearing at the ground, and I knew I was meant
to go east. I knew that was my journey. When
the night came, I made my fire and roasted meat.
It is eight sons journey to the east, and a
man passes by many dead places. The forest people are
(07:28):
afraid of them, but I am not. Once I made
my fire on the edge of a dead place at night.
Next morning, in the dead house, I found a good knife,
a little rusted that was small to what came afterward,
but it made my heart feel big always when I
looked for game that was in front of my arrow,
And twice I passed hunting parties of the forest people
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without their knowing. So I knew my magic was strong
and my journey clean, in spite of the law. Toward
the setting of the eighth sun, I came to the
banks of the Great River. It was half a day's
journey after I had left the God road. We do
not use the God roads now, for they are falling
(08:10):
apart into great blocks of stone, and the forest is
safer going a long way off. I had seen the
water through trees, but the trees were thick. At last
I came out upon an open place at the top
of a cliff. There was the great river below, like
a giant in the sun. It's very long, very wide.
(08:31):
It could eat all the strings we know and still
be thirsty. Its name is Odysson, the Sacred, the Long.
No man of my tribe has seen it, not even
left Mother the priest. It was magic, and I prayed.
Then I raised my eyes and looked south. It was there,
(08:51):
the place of the gods. How can I tell what.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
It was like? You do not know.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It was there in the red light, and they were
too big to be houses. That was there, with the
red light upon it, mighty and ruined. I knew that
in another moment the gods would see me. I covered
my eyes with my hands and crept back into the forest.
Surely it was enough to do and live. Surely it
(09:18):
was enough to spend the night upon the cliff. The
forest people themselves did not come near. Yet all through
the night I knew that I should have to cross
the river and walk in the place of the gods.
Although the gods ate me up, my magic did not
help me at all. And yet there was a fire
in my bowels, of fire in my mind. When the
(09:38):
sun rose. I thought, my journey has been clean, and
I will go home for my journey. But even as
I thought so, I knew I could not. If I
went to the place of the gods, I would surely die.
But if I did not go, I could never be
at peace with my spirit.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Again.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It is better to lose one's life than one's spirit,
if one is a priest and.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
The son of a priest.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Nevertheless, as I made the raft, the tears ran out
of my eyes. The forest people could have killed me
without fights if they had come upon me then, but
they did not come. When the raft was made, I
said the sayings for the dead and painted myself for death.
My heart was cold as a frog, in my knees
like water, but the burning in my mind would not
let me have peace. As I pushed the raft from
(10:30):
the shore, I began my death song. I had the right,
and it was a fine song all the same. When
I came to the place of the gods, I was afraid. Afraid.
The current of the great river has very strong. It
gripped my raft with its hands. That was magic over
the river itself was wide and calm. I could feel
(10:52):
evil spirits about me in the bright morning. I could
feel their breath on my neck as I swept down
the stream. Never have I been so much alone. I
tried to think of my knowledge, but it was a
squirrel's heap of winter nuts. There was no strength in
my knowledge anymore, and I felt small and naked as
a new hatched bird alone upon the great river the
(11:14):
servants of the gods. When I was very near, my
raft struck and turned over. I can swim in our lakes.
I swam to the shore. There was a great spike
of rusted metals sticking out into the river. I hauled
myself up a plotted and sat there planting. I'd saved
my bowl and two arrows and a knife I found
in the dead place, But that was all. My raft
(11:37):
went whirling downstream towards the bitter water. I looked after
it and thought, if it had trodden me under, at
least I would be safely dead. Nevertheless, when I had
dried my bow string and restruck it, I walked forward
to the place of the gods. It felt like ground underfoot.
It did not burn me. It is not true what
(11:58):
some of the tales say. Round there burns forever, For
I have been there here and there where the marks
and stains of the great burning on the ruins. That
is true, But they were old marks and old stains.
It is not true either, what some of our priests
say that it's an island covered with fogs and enchantments.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
It is not.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
It is a great dead place, greater than any dead
place we know. Everywhere in it there are god roads,
though most are cracked and broken. Everywhere there are the
ruins of the high towers of the gods. How shall
I tell what I saw? I I went carefully, my
strong bow in my hand, my skin ready for danger.
(12:45):
There should have been the wailings of spirits and shrieks
of demons, but there were not. It was very silent
and sunny where I had landed. The wind and the
rain and the birds that drop seeds had done their work.
The grass grew, and the cracks of the broken stone.
It is a fair island, no wonder the God's built there.
If I had come, there's a god I also would
(13:08):
have built. How shall I tell what I saw? The
towers are not all broken here and there one still
stands like a great tree in the forest, and the
bird's nest high. But the towers themselves looked blind, for
the gods are gone. I saw a fishhawk catching fish
in the river. I saw a little dance of white
(13:30):
butterflies over a great heap of broken stones and columns.
I went there and looked about me. There was a
carved stone with cut letters broken in half. I can
read letters, but I could not understand these. They said
of the treasure. That was also the shattered image of
a man or a god. It had been made of
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white stone, and he wore his hair tied back like
a woman's. His name was Ashing. As I read on
the cracked half of the stone, I thought it why
to pray to Ashing? Though I did not know that god?
How shall I tell what I saw? There was no
smell of man left on stone or metal, nor were
(14:12):
there many trees in that wilderness of stone. Everywhere there
are the carved stones, carved with magical numbers and words.
I went north. I did not try to hide myself.
When a god or a demon saw me, then I
would die. But meanwhile I was no longer afraid. My
(14:33):
hunger for knowledge burned in me, and there was so
much that I could not understand. After a while I
knew that my belly was hungry. I could have hunted
for my meat, but I did not hunt. It is
known that the gods did not hunt as we do.
They got their food from enchanted boxes and jars. Sometimes
these are still found in the dead places. Once, when
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I was a child and foolish, I opened such a
child arn, tasted it and found the food sweet. But
my father found out and punished me for it strictly,
for often that food is death. Now, though I had
long gone past what was forbidden, and I entered the
likeliest towers looking for the food of the gods, I
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found it at last in the ruins of a great
temple in the mid city. A mighty temple it must
have been, for the roof was plainted like the sky
at night with its stars that much I could see,
though the colors were fainted dim. After I had eaten
and drunk, I slept on top of a stone, my
bow at my side. When I awoke, the sun was low,
(15:39):
and looking down from where I lay, I saw a
dog sitting on his haunches. He was not afraid of me.
He looked at me as if I were meat. No
doubt I could have killed him with an arrow but
I did not know if there were others, And moreover,
night was falling. I looked about me. Not far away
there was a great broken God road leading north. The
(16:01):
towers were high enough, but not so high, And while
many of the dead houses were wrecked, there were some
that stood. I went toward this God road, keeping to
the heights of the rooms, while the dog followed. When
I had reached the guard road, I saw that there
were others behind him. If I had slept later, they
would have come upon me asleep and towing out my throat.
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As it was, they were sure enough of me. They
did not hurry when I went into the dead house.
They kept a watch at the entrance. Doubtless they thought
they would have a fine hunt. But a dog cannot
open a door, and I knew from the books that
the gods did not like to live on the ground,
but on high. I had just found a door I
(16:43):
could open. When the dogs decided to rush, they were
surprised when I shut the door in their faces. It
was a good door of strong metal. I could hear
their foolish baying beyond it, but I did not stop
to answer them. I was in darkness. If on stairs
and climbed. There were many stairs, turning around till my
head was dizzy. At the top was another door. I
(17:04):
found a knob and opened it. I was in a long,
small chamber. On one side of it was a bronze
door that could not be opened, for it had no handle.
Perhaps there was a magic word to open it, but
I did not have the word. I turned to the
door on the opposite side of the wall. The lock
of it was broken, and I opened it and went in.
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Within there was a place of great riches. The god
who lived there it must have been a powerful god.
The first room was a small ante room. I waited
there for some time, telling the spirits to the place
that I came in peace and not as a robber.
When it seemed to me that they hadn't had time
to hear me, I went on, Ah, what riches few.
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Even though the windows had been broken, it was all
as it had been. The great windows that looked over
the city had not been broken at all, but they
were dusty and streaked with many years. There were coverings
on the floors, the colors not greatly faded. The chairs
were soft and deep. There were pictures upon the walls.
Very strange, very wonderful. I remember one of a bunch
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of flowers in the jar. If you came close to it,
you could see nothing but bits of color. But if
you stood away from it, the flowers might have been
picked yesterday. It made my heart feel strange to look
at this picture, and to look at the figure of
a bird and some hard clay on a table, and
see it so like our birds. Everywhere there were books
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and writings, many and tongues that I could not read.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
The God who lived there.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Must have been a wise god and full of knowledge.
I felt I had to write there as I sought knowledge.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Also.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Nevertheless, it was strange. There was a washing place, but
no water. Perhaps the gods washed in air. There was
a cooking place but no wood, And though there was
a machine to cook food, there was no place.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
To put fire in it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Nor were there candles or lamps. There were things that
looked like lamps, but they had neither oil nor wick.
All these things were magic, but I touched them and
lived the magic had gone out of them. Let me
tell one thing to show in the washing place. The
thing said hot, but it was not hot to the touch.
(19:27):
Another thing said cold, but it was not cold. This
must have been a strong magic. But the magic was gone.
I did not understand they had ways. I wish that
I knew. It was close and dry and dusty in
the house of the God. I have said the magic
was gone, but that is not true. It had gone
(19:49):
from the magic things, but it had not gone from
the place. I felt the spirits about me weighing upon me.
Nor had I ever slept in a dead place before,
and tonight I must sleep there. When I thought of it,
my tongue felt dry in my throat. In spite of
my wish for knowledge. Almost I would have gone down
again and faced the dogs, but I did not. I
(20:13):
had not gone through all the rooms when the darkness fell.
When it fell, I went back to the big room,
looking over the city and mid fire. There was a
place to make fire and a box with wood in it,
though I did not think they cooked there. I wrapped
myself on the floor covering and slept in front of
the fire. Now I tell what is very strong magic.
I woke in the midst of the nights. When I awoke,
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the fire had gone out.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I was cold.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
It seemed to me that all around me there were
whisperings and voices. I closed my eyes to shut them out.
Some will say that I slept again, but I do
not think that I slept. I could feel the spirits
drawing my spirit out of my body, as a fish
is drawn on a line. Why should I lie about it?
I am a priest and the son of a priest.
If there are spirits, as they say, in the small
(21:00):
dead places near us, what spirits must there not be
in that great place of the gods? And would not
they wish to speak after such long years? I know
that I felt myself drawn as a fish is drawn
on a line. I had stepped out of my body.
I could see my body asleep in front of the
cold fire, but it was not I. I was drawn
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to look out upon the city of the gods. It
should have been.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Dark, for it was night, But it was not dark.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Everywhere there were lights, lines of light, circles and blurs
of light. Ten thousand torches would not have been the same.
The sky itself was a light. You could barely see
the stars with a glow in the sky. And I
thought to myself, this is strong magic, and trembled. There
was a roaring in my ears like the rushing of rivers.
(21:51):
Then my eyes grew used to the light in my ears,
to the sound. I knew that I was seeing the
city as it had been when the gods were a lot.
That was a sight. Indeed, yes, that was a sight.
I could not have seen it in the body. My
body would have died. Everywhere went the gods on foot
(22:13):
and in chariots. There were gods beyond number and counting,
and their chariots blocked the streets. They had turned night
to day for their pleasure. They did not sleep with
the sun. The noise of their coming and going was
the noise of many waters. It was magic what they
could do. It was magic what they did. I looked
(22:36):
out of another window. The great vines of their bridges
were mended, and the god roads went east and west. Restless.
Restless were the gods, and always in motion. They burrowed
tunnels under rivers, They flew in the air with unbelievable tools.
They did giant works. No part of the earth was
safe from them, for if they wished for a thing,
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they summoned it from the other side of the world.
And always as they labored and rested, as they feasted
and made love, there was a drum in their ears,
the pulse of the giant's city beating and beating like
a man's heart. Were they happy? What is happiness to
the gods? They were great, they were mighty, They were
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wonderful and terrible. As I looked upon them and their magic,
I felt like a child. But a little more, it
seemed to me they would lay their hands upon the stars.
I saw them with wisdom beyond wisdom, and knowledge beyond knowledge.
And yet not all they did was well done. And
yet their wisdom could not but grow until all was peace.
(23:44):
Then I saw their fate come upon them, and that
was terrible, past speech. It came upon them as they
walked the streets of their city. I have been in
the fights with the forest people. I have seen men die,
But this was not like that. When gods bore with gods,
they used weapons weight and not know. It was fire
falling out of the sky in the mist that poisoned.
(24:08):
It was the time of the great burning, in the destruction.
They ran about like ants in the streets, poor gods,
poor gods. And then the towers began to fall. A
few escaped, yes, a few, the legends till it, But
even after the city had become a dead place for
many years, the poison was still in the ground. I
saw it happen. I saw the last of them die.
(24:31):
It was darkness over the broken city, and I wept
all this I saw. I saw it as I have
told it, though not in the body. When I woke
in the morning, I was hungry, but I did not
think first of my hunger, for my heart was perplexed
and confused. I knew the reason for the dead places,
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but I did not see why it had happened. It
seemed to me it should not have happened, with all
the magic they had. I went through the house looking
for an answer. There was so much in the house
I could not understand, And yet I am the priest
and the son of a priest. It was like being
on the side of the great river at night, with
no light to show the way. And I saw that
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that God, he was sitting in his chair by the
window in the room I had not entered before, and
for the first moment I thought that he was alive.
When I saw the skin on the back of his hand,
it was like dlying leather. The room was shot hot
and dry. No doubt that it kept him as he was.
At first I was afraid to approach him. Then the
(25:35):
fear left me. He was sitting looking out over his city.
He was dressed in the clothes of the gods. His
age was neither young nor old. I could not tell
his age.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
But there was.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Wisdom in his face and great sadness. You could see
that he would not run away. He had sat at
his window watching his city die. Then he himself had died.
But it is better to lose one's life than one's spirit,
and you could see from the face that his spirit
had not been lost. I knew that if I touched him,
(26:09):
he would fall into dust, and yet there was something
unconquered in the face. That is all of my story,
for then I knew he was a man. I knew
then that they had been men, neither gods nor demons.
It is a great knowledge, hard to tell and believe.
(26:31):
They were men. They went a dark road, but they
were men. I had no fear after that. I had
no fear of going home, though twice I fought off
the dog, and once I was hunted for two days
by the forest people. When I saw my father again,
I prayed and was purified you went away a boy,
(26:54):
you come back a man and a priest. Father, they
were men. I have been in the place of the
gods and seen it. Now slay me if it is
the law. But still I know they were men.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
The laws is not always the same shape. You have
done what you have done. I could not have done
it in my time. But you come after me. Tell.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I told, and he listened. After that, I wished to
tell all the people, but he showed me otherwise. He said,
truth is a hard dear to hunt. If you eat
too much truth at once, you may die of the truth.
It was not idly that our fathers forbade the dead places.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
He was right.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
It is better the truth should come little by little.
I have learned that, being a priest. Perhaps in the
old days they ate knowledge too fast. Nevertheless, we make
a beginning. It is not for the metal alone we
go to the dead places. Now there are the books
and the writings. They are hard to learn, and the
(28:13):
magic tools are broken, but we can look at them
and wonder. At least we make a beginning. And when
I am chief priests, we shall go beyond the great river.
We shall go to the place of the gods. The
place New York, not one man, but a company. We
shall walk in the broken streets and say its name
(28:34):
aloud without fear. We shall look for the images of
gods and find the God, the Ashing and the others.
The gods Lincoln and built more than Moses. But they
were men who built the city. They were not gods
or demons.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
They were men. I remember the dead mass face. There
were men who were here before us. We must build again.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You've heard by the Waters of Babylon or the Place
of the Gods by Stephen Vincent Bennet, copyright nineteen thirty seven.
This is Michael Hanson. Technical operation for this program by
Don Sebe and Steve Gordon mind webbs as a production
of WHA Radio in Madison, the service of the University
(29:46):
of Wisconsin Extension
I think.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
My w This is Michael Hanson with a mind Web
(01:03):
story from the selected works of Stephen Vincent Benay, copyright
by Holt, Reinhardt and Winston, nineteen thirty seven. This is
by the waters of Babylon, or the place of the gods.
O The north and the west and the south are
good hunting ground. But it is forbidden to go east.
(01:23):
It is forbidden to go to any of the dead
places except to search for metal. And then he who
touches the metal must be a priest or the son
of a priest. Afterward, both the man and the metal
must be purified. These are the rules and the laws.
They are well made. It is forbidden to cross the
Great River and look upon the place that was the
(01:44):
place of the gods. This is most strictly forbidden. We
do not even say its name, though we know its name.
It is there that spirits live and Veemon's. Is there
that there are the ashes of the great burning. These
things are forbidden. They have been forbidden since the beginning
of time. My father is a priest. I am the
(02:05):
son of a priest. I have been in the dead
places nearest with my father. At first, I was afraid
when my father went into the house to search for
the metal. I stood by the door, and my heart
felt small and weak. It was a dead man's house,
his spirit house did not have the smell of man.
Though they were old bones in the corner. But it
is not fitting that a priest's son should show fear.
(02:28):
I looked at the bones in the shadow and kept
my voice still. Then my father came out with a metal,
a good strong piece. He looked at me with both eyes,
but I had not run away. He gave me the
metal to hold. I took it and did not die,
so he knew that I was truly his son, who
would be a priest in my time. That was when
(02:49):
I was very young. Nevertheless, my brothers would not have
done it, though they are good hunters. After that, they
gave me the good piece of meat in the warm
corner by the fire. My father watched over me. He
was glad that I should be a priest. But when
I boasted or wept without reason, he punished me more
strictly than my brothers.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
That was right.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
After a time, I myself was allowed to go into
the dead houses and search for metal. So I learned
the ways of those houses and if I saw bones,
I was no longer afraid. The bones are light and old.
Sometimes it would fall to dust if you touch them.
But that is a great scene. I was taught the
chants and the spells. I was taught how to stop
(03:33):
the running of blood from the wound, and many secrets.
A priest must know many secrets. That was what my
father said when I was a man. At last, I
came to my father and said it was time for
me to go on my journey. Give me leave. He
looked at me for a long time, stroking his beard,
and then he said, at last.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yes, it is time.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
That night, in the house of priesthood, I asked for
and received purification. My body hurt, but my spirit was
a cool stone. It was my father himself who questioned
me about my dreams. He bade me look into the
smoke of the fire and see. And I saw, and
told what I saw it was what I have always seen.
A river, and beyond it a great dead place, and
(04:21):
in it the gods walking. I have always thought about that.
His eyes were stern when I told him was no
longer my father but a priest, And he said, this
is a strong dream. It is mine. I said, while
the smoke waved and my head felt light. They were
singing the star song in the outer chamber. It was
(04:43):
like the buzzing of bees in my head. He asked
me how the gods were dressed, and I told him
how they were dressed. We know how they were dressed
from the book, but I saw them as if they
were before me. When I had finished, he threw the
sticks three times and studied them as they fell.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
This is a very strong dream. It may eat you up.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I'm not afraid, I said, and looked at him with
both eyes. My voice sounded thin in my ears, but
that was because of the smoke. He touched me.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
On the breast and foreidly gave me the bow and
three arrows. Take them. It is forbidden to travel east.
It is forbidden to cross the Great River. It is
forbidden to go to the place of the gods. All
these things are forbidden. All these things are forbidden, I said.
(05:34):
But it was my voice that spoke, and not my spirit.
He looked at me again, My son, once I had
young dreams. If your dream does not eat you up,
you may be a great priest. If it eats you,
you are still my son. Now go on your journey,
(06:00):
as is the log.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
My body hurt, but not my heart. When the dawn came,
I was out of side of the village. I prayed
and purified myself, waiting for a sign. The sign was
an eagle. It flew east. Sometimes signs are sent by
bad spirits. I waited again on the flat rock, fasting,
taking no food. I was very still. I could feel
(06:25):
the sky above me and the earth beneath. I waited
till the sun was beginning to sink. Then three deer
passed in the valley, going east. They did not wind
me or see me. There was a white fawn with them,
a very great sign. I followed them at a distance,
waiting for what would happen. My heart was troubled about
(06:47):
going east, yet I knew that I must go. My
head hummed with my fasting. I did not even see
the panthers spring upon the white fawn. But before I
knew it, the bow was in my hand. I shouted,
and the panther looked at his head in the fawn.
It is not easy to kill a panther with one arrow,
but the arrow went to his eye and into his brain.
(07:07):
He died as he tried to spring. He rolled over,
tearing at the ground, and I knew I was meant
to go east. I knew that was my journey. When
the night came, I made my fire and roasted meat.
It is eight sons journey to the east, and a
man passes by many dead places. The forest people are
(07:28):
afraid of them, but I am not. Once I made
my fire on the edge of a dead place at night.
Next morning, in the dead house, I found a good knife,
a little rusted that was small to what came afterward,
but it made my heart feel big always when I
looked for game that was in front of my arrow,
And twice I passed hunting parties of the forest people
(07:49):
without their knowing. So I knew my magic was strong
and my journey clean, in spite of the law. Toward
the setting of the eighth sun, I came to the
banks of the Great River. It was half a day's
journey after I had left the God road. We do
not use the God roads now, for they are falling
(08:10):
apart into great blocks of stone, and the forest is
safer going a long way off. I had seen the
water through trees, but the trees were thick. At last
I came out upon an open place at the top
of a cliff. There was the great river below, like
a giant in the sun. It's very long, very wide.
(08:31):
It could eat all the strings we know and still
be thirsty. Its name is Odysson, the Sacred, the Long.
No man of my tribe has seen it, not even
left Mother the priest. It was magic, and I prayed.
Then I raised my eyes and looked south. It was there,
(08:51):
the place of the gods. How can I tell what.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
It was like? You do not know.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It was there in the red light, and they were
too big to be houses. That was there, with the
red light upon it, mighty and ruined. I knew that
in another moment the gods would see me. I covered
my eyes with my hands and crept back into the forest.
Surely it was enough to do and live. Surely it
(09:18):
was enough to spend the night upon the cliff. The
forest people themselves did not come near. Yet all through
the night I knew that I should have to cross
the river and walk in the place of the gods.
Although the gods ate me up, my magic did not
help me at all. And yet there was a fire
in my bowels, of fire in my mind. When the
(09:38):
sun rose. I thought, my journey has been clean, and
I will go home for my journey. But even as
I thought so, I knew I could not. If I
went to the place of the gods, I would surely die.
But if I did not go, I could never be
at peace with my spirit.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Again.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It is better to lose one's life than one's spirit,
if one is a priest and.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
The son of a priest.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Nevertheless, as I made the raft, the tears ran out
of my eyes. The forest people could have killed me
without fights if they had come upon me then, but
they did not come. When the raft was made, I
said the sayings for the dead and painted myself for death.
My heart was cold as a frog, in my knees
like water, but the burning in my mind would not
let me have peace. As I pushed the raft from
(10:30):
the shore, I began my death song. I had the right,
and it was a fine song all the same. When
I came to the place of the gods, I was afraid. Afraid.
The current of the great river has very strong. It
gripped my raft with its hands. That was magic over
the river itself was wide and calm. I could feel
(10:52):
evil spirits about me in the bright morning. I could
feel their breath on my neck as I swept down
the stream. Never have I been so much alone. I
tried to think of my knowledge, but it was a
squirrel's heap of winter nuts. There was no strength in
my knowledge anymore, and I felt small and naked as
a new hatched bird alone upon the great river the
(11:14):
servants of the gods. When I was very near, my
raft struck and turned over. I can swim in our lakes.
I swam to the shore. There was a great spike
of rusted metals sticking out into the river. I hauled
myself up a plotted and sat there planting. I'd saved
my bowl and two arrows and a knife I found
in the dead place, But that was all. My raft
(11:37):
went whirling downstream towards the bitter water. I looked after
it and thought, if it had trodden me under, at
least I would be safely dead. Nevertheless, when I had
dried my bow string and restruck it, I walked forward
to the place of the gods. It felt like ground underfoot.
It did not burn me. It is not true what
(11:58):
some of the tales say. Round there burns forever, For
I have been there here and there where the marks
and stains of the great burning on the ruins. That
is true, But they were old marks and old stains.
It is not true either, what some of our priests
say that it's an island covered with fogs and enchantments.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
It is not.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
It is a great dead place, greater than any dead
place we know. Everywhere in it there are god roads,
though most are cracked and broken. Everywhere there are the
ruins of the high towers of the gods. How shall
I tell what I saw? I I went carefully, my
strong bow in my hand, my skin ready for danger.
(12:45):
There should have been the wailings of spirits and shrieks
of demons, but there were not. It was very silent
and sunny where I had landed. The wind and the
rain and the birds that drop seeds had done their work.
The grass grew, and the cracks of the broken stone.
It is a fair island, no wonder the God's built there.
If I had come, there's a god I also would
(13:08):
have built. How shall I tell what I saw? The
towers are not all broken here and there one still
stands like a great tree in the forest, and the
bird's nest high. But the towers themselves looked blind, for
the gods are gone. I saw a fishhawk catching fish
in the river. I saw a little dance of white
(13:30):
butterflies over a great heap of broken stones and columns.
I went there and looked about me. There was a
carved stone with cut letters broken in half. I can
read letters, but I could not understand these. They said
of the treasure. That was also the shattered image of
a man or a god. It had been made of
(13:50):
white stone, and he wore his hair tied back like
a woman's. His name was Ashing. As I read on
the cracked half of the stone, I thought it why
to pray to Ashing? Though I did not know that god?
How shall I tell what I saw? There was no
smell of man left on stone or metal, nor were
(14:12):
there many trees in that wilderness of stone. Everywhere there
are the carved stones, carved with magical numbers and words.
I went north. I did not try to hide myself.
When a god or a demon saw me, then I
would die. But meanwhile I was no longer afraid. My
(14:33):
hunger for knowledge burned in me, and there was so
much that I could not understand. After a while I
knew that my belly was hungry. I could have hunted
for my meat, but I did not hunt. It is
known that the gods did not hunt as we do.
They got their food from enchanted boxes and jars. Sometimes
these are still found in the dead places. Once, when
(14:57):
I was a child and foolish, I opened such a
child arn, tasted it and found the food sweet. But
my father found out and punished me for it strictly,
for often that food is death. Now, though I had
long gone past what was forbidden, and I entered the
likeliest towers looking for the food of the gods, I
(15:17):
found it at last in the ruins of a great
temple in the mid city. A mighty temple it must
have been, for the roof was plainted like the sky
at night with its stars that much I could see,
though the colors were fainted dim. After I had eaten
and drunk, I slept on top of a stone, my
bow at my side. When I awoke, the sun was low,
(15:39):
and looking down from where I lay, I saw a
dog sitting on his haunches. He was not afraid of me.
He looked at me as if I were meat. No
doubt I could have killed him with an arrow but
I did not know if there were others, And moreover,
night was falling. I looked about me. Not far away
there was a great broken God road leading north. The
(16:01):
towers were high enough, but not so high, And while
many of the dead houses were wrecked, there were some
that stood. I went toward this God road, keeping to
the heights of the rooms, while the dog followed. When
I had reached the guard road, I saw that there
were others behind him. If I had slept later, they
would have come upon me asleep and towing out my throat.
(16:23):
As it was, they were sure enough of me. They
did not hurry when I went into the dead house.
They kept a watch at the entrance. Doubtless they thought
they would have a fine hunt. But a dog cannot
open a door, and I knew from the books that
the gods did not like to live on the ground,
but on high. I had just found a door I
(16:43):
could open. When the dogs decided to rush, they were
surprised when I shut the door in their faces. It
was a good door of strong metal. I could hear
their foolish baying beyond it, but I did not stop
to answer them. I was in darkness. If on stairs
and climbed. There were many stairs, turning around till my
head was dizzy. At the top was another door. I
(17:04):
found a knob and opened it. I was in a long,
small chamber. On one side of it was a bronze
door that could not be opened, for it had no handle.
Perhaps there was a magic word to open it, but
I did not have the word. I turned to the
door on the opposite side of the wall. The lock
of it was broken, and I opened it and went in.
(17:28):
Within there was a place of great riches. The god
who lived there it must have been a powerful god.
The first room was a small ante room. I waited
there for some time, telling the spirits to the place
that I came in peace and not as a robber.
When it seemed to me that they hadn't had time
to hear me, I went on, Ah, what riches few.
(17:51):
Even though the windows had been broken, it was all
as it had been. The great windows that looked over
the city had not been broken at all, but they
were dusty and streaked with many years. There were coverings
on the floors, the colors not greatly faded. The chairs
were soft and deep. There were pictures upon the walls.
Very strange, very wonderful. I remember one of a bunch
(18:14):
of flowers in the jar. If you came close to it,
you could see nothing but bits of color. But if
you stood away from it, the flowers might have been
picked yesterday. It made my heart feel strange to look
at this picture, and to look at the figure of
a bird and some hard clay on a table, and
see it so like our birds. Everywhere there were books
(18:36):
and writings, many and tongues that I could not read.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
The God who lived there.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Must have been a wise god and full of knowledge.
I felt I had to write there as I sought knowledge.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Also.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Nevertheless, it was strange. There was a washing place, but
no water. Perhaps the gods washed in air. There was
a cooking place but no wood, And though there was
a machine to cook food, there was no place.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
To put fire in it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Nor were there candles or lamps. There were things that
looked like lamps, but they had neither oil nor wick.
All these things were magic, but I touched them and
lived the magic had gone out of them. Let me
tell one thing to show in the washing place. The
thing said hot, but it was not hot to the touch.
(19:27):
Another thing said cold, but it was not cold. This
must have been a strong magic. But the magic was gone.
I did not understand they had ways. I wish that
I knew. It was close and dry and dusty in
the house of the God. I have said the magic
was gone, but that is not true. It had gone
(19:49):
from the magic things, but it had not gone from
the place. I felt the spirits about me weighing upon me.
Nor had I ever slept in a dead place before,
and tonight I must sleep there. When I thought of it,
my tongue felt dry in my throat. In spite of
my wish for knowledge. Almost I would have gone down
again and faced the dogs, but I did not. I
(20:13):
had not gone through all the rooms when the darkness fell.
When it fell, I went back to the big room,
looking over the city and mid fire. There was a
place to make fire and a box with wood in it,
though I did not think they cooked there. I wrapped
myself on the floor covering and slept in front of
the fire. Now I tell what is very strong magic.
I woke in the midst of the nights. When I awoke,
(20:35):
the fire had gone out.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I was cold.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
It seemed to me that all around me there were
whisperings and voices. I closed my eyes to shut them out.
Some will say that I slept again, but I do
not think that I slept. I could feel the spirits
drawing my spirit out of my body, as a fish
is drawn on a line. Why should I lie about it?
I am a priest and the son of a priest.
If there are spirits, as they say, in the small
(21:00):
dead places near us, what spirits must there not be
in that great place of the gods? And would not
they wish to speak after such long years? I know
that I felt myself drawn as a fish is drawn
on a line. I had stepped out of my body.
I could see my body asleep in front of the
cold fire, but it was not I. I was drawn
(21:23):
to look out upon the city of the gods. It
should have been.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Dark, for it was night, But it was not dark.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Everywhere there were lights, lines of light, circles and blurs
of light. Ten thousand torches would not have been the same.
The sky itself was a light. You could barely see
the stars with a glow in the sky. And I
thought to myself, this is strong magic, and trembled. There
was a roaring in my ears like the rushing of rivers.
(21:51):
Then my eyes grew used to the light in my ears,
to the sound. I knew that I was seeing the
city as it had been when the gods were a lot.
That was a sight. Indeed, yes, that was a sight.
I could not have seen it in the body. My
body would have died. Everywhere went the gods on foot
(22:13):
and in chariots. There were gods beyond number and counting,
and their chariots blocked the streets. They had turned night
to day for their pleasure. They did not sleep with
the sun. The noise of their coming and going was
the noise of many waters. It was magic what they
could do. It was magic what they did. I looked
(22:36):
out of another window. The great vines of their bridges
were mended, and the god roads went east and west. Restless.
Restless were the gods, and always in motion. They burrowed
tunnels under rivers, They flew in the air with unbelievable tools.
They did giant works. No part of the earth was
safe from them, for if they wished for a thing,
(22:56):
they summoned it from the other side of the world.
And always as they labored and rested, as they feasted
and made love, there was a drum in their ears,
the pulse of the giant's city beating and beating like
a man's heart. Were they happy? What is happiness to
the gods? They were great, they were mighty, They were
(23:19):
wonderful and terrible. As I looked upon them and their magic,
I felt like a child. But a little more, it
seemed to me they would lay their hands upon the stars.
I saw them with wisdom beyond wisdom, and knowledge beyond knowledge.
And yet not all they did was well done. And
yet their wisdom could not but grow until all was peace.
(23:44):
Then I saw their fate come upon them, and that
was terrible, past speech. It came upon them as they
walked the streets of their city. I have been in
the fights with the forest people. I have seen men die,
But this was not like that. When gods bore with gods,
they used weapons weight and not know. It was fire
falling out of the sky in the mist that poisoned.
(24:08):
It was the time of the great burning, in the destruction.
They ran about like ants in the streets, poor gods,
poor gods. And then the towers began to fall. A
few escaped, yes, a few, the legends till it, But
even after the city had become a dead place for
many years, the poison was still in the ground. I
saw it happen. I saw the last of them die.
(24:31):
It was darkness over the broken city, and I wept
all this I saw. I saw it as I have
told it, though not in the body. When I woke
in the morning, I was hungry, but I did not
think first of my hunger, for my heart was perplexed
and confused. I knew the reason for the dead places,
(24:52):
but I did not see why it had happened. It
seemed to me it should not have happened, with all
the magic they had. I went through the house looking
for an answer. There was so much in the house
I could not understand, And yet I am the priest
and the son of a priest. It was like being
on the side of the great river at night, with
no light to show the way. And I saw that
(25:15):
that God, he was sitting in his chair by the
window in the room I had not entered before, and
for the first moment I thought that he was alive.
When I saw the skin on the back of his hand,
it was like dlying leather. The room was shot hot
and dry. No doubt that it kept him as he was.
At first I was afraid to approach him. Then the
(25:35):
fear left me. He was sitting looking out over his city.
He was dressed in the clothes of the gods. His
age was neither young nor old. I could not tell
his age.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
But there was.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Wisdom in his face and great sadness. You could see
that he would not run away. He had sat at
his window watching his city die. Then he himself had died.
But it is better to lose one's life than one's spirit,
and you could see from the face that his spirit
had not been lost. I knew that if I touched him,
(26:09):
he would fall into dust, and yet there was something
unconquered in the face. That is all of my story,
for then I knew he was a man. I knew
then that they had been men, neither gods nor demons.
It is a great knowledge, hard to tell and believe.
(26:31):
They were men. They went a dark road, but they
were men. I had no fear after that. I had
no fear of going home, though twice I fought off
the dog, and once I was hunted for two days
by the forest people. When I saw my father again,
I prayed and was purified you went away a boy,
(26:54):
you come back a man and a priest. Father, they
were men. I have been in the place of the
gods and seen it. Now slay me if it is
the law. But still I know they were men.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
The laws is not always the same shape. You have
done what you have done. I could not have done
it in my time. But you come after me. Tell.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I told, and he listened. After that, I wished to
tell all the people, but he showed me otherwise. He said,
truth is a hard dear to hunt. If you eat
too much truth at once, you may die of the truth.
It was not idly that our fathers forbade the dead places.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
He was right.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
It is better the truth should come little by little.
I have learned that, being a priest. Perhaps in the
old days they ate knowledge too fast. Nevertheless, we make
a beginning. It is not for the metal alone we
go to the dead places. Now there are the books
and the writings. They are hard to learn, and the
(28:13):
magic tools are broken, but we can look at them
and wonder. At least we make a beginning. And when
I am chief priests, we shall go beyond the great river.
We shall go to the place of the gods. The
place New York, not one man, but a company. We
shall walk in the broken streets and say its name
(28:34):
aloud without fear. We shall look for the images of
gods and find the God, the Ashing and the others.
The gods Lincoln and built more than Moses. But they
were men who built the city. They were not gods
or demons.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
They were men. I remember the dead mass face. There
were men who were here before us. We must build again.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You've heard by the Waters of Babylon or the Place
of the Gods by Stephen Vincent Bennet, copyright nineteen thirty seven.
This is Michael Hanson. Technical operation for this program by
Don Sebe and Steve Gordon mind webbs as a production
of WHA Radio in Madison, the service of the University
(29:46):
of Wisconsin Extension
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