Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have you ever known someone who's just incredibly brilliant, like
multiple degrees, solves really complex problems.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Absolutely, But then you look at their personal life and
it's well, kind of a mess. Relationships are broken, they
seem perpetually unhappy, maybe making choices that just make you
scratch your head.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's a paradox, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
It really is. How can all that intelligence, that knowledge
not translate into well, living a good life? And this
isn't just you know, an interesting observation. It feels really critical.
Right now in our information age, we are drowning in facts, data,
endless knowledge stream overloaded totally, and yet so many people
(00:41):
report feeling lost, adrift almost. It seems knowing more isn't
automatically making us live better.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's the core of it. What we're often missing isn't knowledge,
it's wisdom.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Wisdom. Okay, So to define that for us, how is
it different?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, it's fascinating because wisdom goes way beyond just knowing things.
It's more like this profound ability to navigate life's complexities,
you know, with grace, grace okay, yeah, and it's about
making decisions you genuinely won't regret later building relationships that
actually sustain you deeply, finding meaning even when things get
really tough. Right, think about honesty. We all know honesty
(01:17):
is important, right, that's knowledge, But wisdom is understanding when
and how to speak the truth, maybe in love or
with compassion. Ah, the nuance exactly, or finance. You can
memorize all the principles, know the theories. That's knowledge again,
but wisdom is actually building a stable, maybe even generous
(01:37):
life that embodies those principles. It's the application, the living
it out.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It's the how, not just the what got it. So
for this deep dive, our mission is really to explore
why wisdom isn't just some old fashioned idea but maybe
humanity's most precious and actually practical resource today. We want
to figure out how you actively cultivate it and what
happens when you do. The benefits the transformer benefits exactly
because ultimately, like you said, wisdom isn't just about knowing stuff,
(02:04):
it's about living and that I think changes everything.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It really does.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So let's tackle something head on. This idea that you
know wisdom just arrives with age.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yes, the automatic wisdom is right, but we've all seen
people older individuals who seems stuck repeating the same destructive
patterns right decades.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Sometimes sadly, Yes, observation kind of disproved that theory pretty quickly.
Time alone clearly isn't the magic.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Ingredients, So it demands something more from us, something deliberate.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Precisely, Wisdom is impassive. You have to intentionally pursue it.
Think about learning a complex craft, maybe like playing a
musical instrument. Okay, you don't become a master just by
owning the instrument or you know, tinkering occasionally. It takes
daily focused practice, attention to technique, learning from teachers, mentors.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And listening, I suppose, critically.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Truly listening, not just to the instructions, but to the
feedback from your own efforts, the nuances and you know,
some anti texts to actually talk about tuning our ears
to wisdom.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Tuning our ears. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
It's a great metaphor, isn't it, Especially now because in
our world, which is so noisy, filled with notifications, Wisdom's
voice is often really quiet. It's a whisper, maybe in
those moments.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Of reflection easily drowned out.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So easily drowned out, if we're not actively intentionally listening
for it.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
That tuning our ears idea really resonates for today's world.
Finding those quiet moments feels crucial. I actually interviewed an executive, Marcus,
who kind of embodies this journey. Oh yeah, yeah, really
successful guy. For years, he was all about quick, aggressive decisions.
He thought being wise meant having all the answers instantly.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
The note all trap totally.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
But then he hit some really tough crises, personal and professional,
and he started what he calls his wisdom practice.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Okay, what did that involve?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Every morning, before the emails, before the news, he takes
thirty minus, just reflects, asks some self questions like oh
what did I actually learn yesterday? Or where did I
react out of fear instead of clarity?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Hmm, powerful questions.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And what patterns am I repeating maybe unconsciously that aren't
helping me anymore?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
That takes courage to look that closely.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
It really does. And he said the change was well, profound, gradual,
but profound. He started seeing things like how his impatience
was affecting his team, how needing to be right was
actually damaging his marriage, how his fear of looking weak
stopped him from really connecting with his kids. Wow, he
realized wisdom wasn't about cramming in new information. It was,
(04:41):
in his words, about finally paying attention to what life
had been trying to teach me all along.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
That's it, isn't it paying attention? Marcus's story really highlights
those core practices for actively seeking wisdom like what well First,
like Marcus did, cultivating genuine curiosity, asking open questions instead
of jumping to conclude, seeking context instead.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Of just judging quickly okay curiosity.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Second, being willing to challenge your own assumptions, your own beliefs.
Wisdom often demands that humility, you know, admitting you might
be wrong or that your view is limited. That's hard
for a lot of us, it is, but it's not weakness.
It's actually the foundation for growth. And finally, we have
to treat wisdom like the treasure.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
It is not like another commodity.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Exactly. Our culture pushes consumer goods instant downloads. Wisdom isn't
like that. You can't buy it, you can't get it instantly.
Some ancient proverbs compare seeking it to diligently searching for
hidden silver or buried treasure.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Right, it takes effort, persistence.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
That level of dedication, that persistence, that's what wisdom asks
of us and ultimately what it rewards.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And when you do commit to that search, when you
start paying attention, like Markeusted, things start to shift. You
begin to experience these well gifts, practical life changing gifts.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yes, one of the most significant, I think is joy.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Joy not just happiness, No.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Not fleeting happiness, something deeper and abiding contentment that can
actually persist even through the really difficult stuff life throws
at us.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
How does that work well?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Doctor Sarah Chen's research talks about something called perspective capacity.
It's the ability to see your immediate situation within a
larger context.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
And zooming out a bit exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It stops problems from defining your entire existence. And interestingly,
cultivating this capacity seemed to actively rewire neural pathways. It
boosts resilience markers more effectively, even than some standard coping techniques.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
That's fascinating. That reframing. It's powerful. I saw it so
clearly with Elena, a teacher I spoke with. She got
our really devastating cancer diagnosis at forty five.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Oh wow, and she.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Told me her old self would have just been consumed
by anger, fear, unfairness and look. She felt those things
for sure, of course, but the wisdom she'd been cultivating
allowed her to, as she put it, hold multiple truth simultaneously.
Yes she was sick, Yes it felt unfair, but she
could also see she was surrounded by love, that her
life up to that point had been meaningful, that even
(07:09):
this awful challenge might hold lessons.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
That perspective is wisdom and action.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Absolutely, it transformed how she went through those tough months.
She found joy and tiny things. Her daughter's laugh, a
sunrise during chemo, a stranger's kindness, unexpected moments that's.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Beautiful and beyond joy.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
There's the gift of protection, protection like physical safety.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Sometimes maybe yeah, but more often it's protection from, you know,
the thousand bad decisions that can quietly derail a life.
Wisdom acts like an internal early warning system. Okay, so
it helps you recognize danger before it's obvious. It's that
quiet inner nudge, that feeling that flags a risky investment
(07:49):
as maybe too good to be.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
True, right, that gut feeling.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Or it highlights subtle red flags in a new relationship
that your excitement might otherwise overlook or it cautions that
is supposed shortcut, Well, it's going to cost you more
in the long run.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I spoke with James, who's recovering from a gambling addiction.
He really described this well, oh interesting. He used to
think he was smart because he could calculate odds, figure
out the probabilities right, the intellectual side exactly. But wisdom,
he said, showed him a completely different truth. The real
gamble wasn't with money at the casino. It was with
his family's future, his integrity, his self respect, the real stakes. Yes,
(08:28):
wisdom helped him see past that immediate thrill to the inevitable,
painful consequences. He called wisdom his wise friend, always there
helping him see clearly when his own judgment got clouded.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
That's a powerful image a wise friend, and that leads
to perhaps the most indispensable gift today discernment.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Discernment being able to tell the.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Difference exactly between what just looks good and what actually
is good, between the glitter and the gold. Essentially and wow,
in our age of slick marketing, deep fakes, perfectly curated
social media lives, this ability is more crucial than ever,
isn't it?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Absolutely essential.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Discernment shapes our daily choices, sure, but more profoundly, it
shapes our character. It helps us align our actions with
what we truly value, not just with impulses or what
everyone else is doing.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I think about David, that engineer I mentioned earlier. He
was offered a job triple his salary. Everyone literally, everyone
told me, being insane, to turn it down. Huge pressure, massive,
But he paused, He reflected. He talked to mentors he trusted,
and wisdom helped him discern that the company's core values
they just didn't line up with his.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
What was the conflict?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
They prioritized profit over safety, speedover quality? Consistently, he realized
taking that job meant compromising who he was, his integrity.
Wisdom let him see past the big salary to what
really mattered to him.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
That's discernment protecting his character. And it extends so powerfully
into relationships too, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
How do you mean?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well? Wisdom helps us see the difference between, say, superficial
charm and genuine character, between people who genuinely build us
up and those who subtly, maybe even unconsciously, tear us down.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Spotting the difference between real connection and maybe manipulation.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Precisely, it teaches us that not all attention equals love,
not all confidence means real strength, and definitely not all
forms of success or actually worth chasing. Wisdom acts like
a filter against those attractive dangers.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Attractive dangers, I like that phrase. Those choices are influences
that promise so much but have these hidden, sometimes devastating.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Costs, Exactly the often cume disguised as amazing opportunities.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Or yeah, totally like that business partnership that seems perfect
but you know deep down it involves cutting some ethical
corners m hm.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Or the relationship that's incredibly exciting but leaves you feeling
drained or questioning your own worth.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, Or that lifestyle you see online that looks so glamorous,
but you know it's fueled by dead and maybe a
bit of deception. Wisdom helps us see through that shiny surface.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It really does.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Monica, that marketing exec I spoke with, she had a
story about this. Recruited by a startup seemed like her
absolute dream job. Innovative product, charismatic founder, huge equity.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Potential, the whole package.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Her ambitious friends were green with envy. But she said
something in her gut honed by years of trying to
cultivate wisdom, just screamed, hang on.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
She listened to that pause.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
She did. She asked harder questions, dug a bit deeper
than the hype, and she uncovered this pattern. The founder
had a history of leaving investors, employees financially ruined while
he walked away.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Oh wow, saved by the pause totally.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
That wisdom guided hesitation saved her from what turned into
a massive financial disaster and years of lawsuits for the
people who did jump in.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
And it's crucial to remember wisdom doesn't just warn us
away from bad things. It also actively guides us towards
the good stuff, towards people and paths that genuinely enrich
our lives.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
How does it do that?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It helps us recognize integrity even when it's not flashy.
You know, the quiet colleague who just always does what
they say they'll do. The friend who tells you the
hard truth but with real curpassion. Yeah, the mentor who
doesn't just flatter you but actually challenges you to grow.
Doctor Robert Kin's research on social influence is fascinating. Here
it shows our brains actually start to mirror the coping
(12:19):
styles and values of the people we spend the most
time with.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
So choosing your circle wisely is literally retraining your brain in.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
A subtle but powerful way. Yes, wisdom involves consciously choosing
who influences you based on who you want to become,
not just who makes you feel comfortable right now.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
That often means making some tough calls about relationships, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
It absolutely can, maybe setting firm boundaries with that friend
whose negativity just constantly drags you down, or the.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Family member with the end lists get rich quick schemes
always needing your help.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Right, or recognizing that a romantic partner, while exciting, brings
mostly chaos into your life. Wisdom doesn't always mean cutting
ties completely, but it definitely means being clear eyed about
their impact and limiting unhealthy influence, protecting your own growth.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
And what about bigger societal influences.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
That's equally important. Wisdom helps us spot and resist what
we could call cultural shortcuts.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Cultural shortcuts like.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
What things our society often accepts, even encourages, but that
are ultimately destructive. Think about debt fueled consumerism by now,
pay later, happiness is just one purchase.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Away, but it delivers mostly anxiety exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Or the workaholic culture that tells you your entire worth
is tied to your productivity, or even social media addiction
substituting likes and shares for real connection.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
These aren't seen as terrible things. Usually they're normalized.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
They're totally normalized, even celebrated sometimes. But wisdom helps us
see through the normalization to the hidden costs, the cost
to our peace, our relationships, our synth of purpose.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Okay, so we're talking about all these timeless principles, but
you might be sitting there listening, thinking, Okay, ancient wisdom,
that's nice. Is it really relevant now in our world,
hyper digital, constantly changing.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It's a fair question, and the answer isn't just yes
it's relevant. I'd argue it's more essential now than ever before.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
More essential.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Why think about it. We make more decisions in a
single day than our ancestors probably made in months. We're
navigating this insane information.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Overload without the old maps.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Exactly, traditional guideposts, stable communities, lifelong mentors, clear cultural norms.
Many of those have weakened or disappeared, and we're facing
completely new frontiers. Social media's influence, AI, genetic engineering, there's
no historical playbook for this stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So wisdom becomes our.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Compass, our indispensable navigation system. It allows us to apply
those timeless principles about character, values, consequences to these radically
new situations.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Can you give some concrete examples?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Sure? Think about digital consumption, the ancient wisdom about guarding
your heart and mind that applies directly to what we
feed our brains online every day.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Ca click on who we follow exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Or online communities that age old advice about choosing your
companions wisely, well, who are you letting into your head
through podcasts, forums, social feeds?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Good point? What about something like cryptocurrency that's super modern.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Totally barely two decades old? But wisdom's principles cut right
through the hype. The wise person doesn't just jump on
the bandwagon. They ask does this align with my values?
Am I doing this out of fomo fear of missing out?
Or careful thought?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Can I actually afford to lose this money?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Crucial question? Am I being promised returns that sound way
too good to be true? These simple wisdom based questions
have saved so many people from financial ruin in that space?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Okay, what about online dating?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Same principle. It's easy to get caught up in curated profiles.
Wisdom pushes deeper. It asks, Okay, beyond the photos, how
does this person treat, say, a waiter. How do they
handle a simple disagreement? What do their long term friendship
say about their character?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
It lives past the surface and artificial intelligence that feels
like the ultimate new frontier.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
It is, and look, technical knowledge builds the AI, no question,
but wisdom is what we desperately need to decide how
to use it. What decisions should always remain human? What
values do we embed in these powerful systems? How do
we maintain our own humanity as the world gets more automated?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
That's huge. I talked to Lisa, a software developer. She
put it brilliantly.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
What does she say?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
She said, Look, I can code complex machine learning algorithms,
that's my skill. But wisdom helps me ask whether.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I should uh the ethical dimension exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Her company wanted her to build an app specifically designed
to be addictive for teenagers. She had the tech skills,
but wisdom gave her the pause and then the courage
to actually object, to propose ethical alternatives. She said that
wasn't a coding problem I face it was a wisdom problem.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
That nails it the should we not just the can we?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So as we kind of wrap up this deep dive,
maybe the thing to remember is this fundamental truth. Every
single day life presents.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Us with crossroads m M big and small.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, some are huge, obvious career moves, relationship decisions, big investments,
but so many are subtle. Right how you respond when
you get frustrated choosing patients instead of reacting the actual
words you choose to speak or.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Not speak the small hinges that swing big doors.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
That's it. And at every one of those crossroads you
have a choice. You can go with immediate gratification, what
feels easiest, what everyone else is doing.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
The path of least resistance, or you.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Can pause, reflect, try to choose the path that wisdom illuminates,
even when it's harder, even when it's unpopular, even when
the benefits aren't instant, maybe they're years down the road.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
And the really remarkable thing, the hopeful thing, is that
wisdom is available universally for an elite few, not at all.
It doesn't require fancy degrees off the charts IQ or
privileged upbringing. It just asks for well humility, really humility
to admit you don't know everything, that you have more
to learn and encourage, and the courage to look honestly
(18:03):
at your own life, your own patterns, and then the
persistence to just keep seeking, keep learning, keep trying, even
when the lessons.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Are tough, because the rewards are different.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
They are profoundly different. Those who really value and pursue
wisdom they find something amazing. A life of deep satisfaction,
not just shallow pleasure, Relationships built on truth, not just appearances,
decisions made with clarity, less regret, and this underlying sense
of purpose that actually helps you navigate the hard times.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So wisdom doesn't make challenges disappear.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
No, life will always have challenges, but wisdom absolutely transforms
how we meet those challenges, how we experience them, how
we grow through them.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
There's that ancient proverb, isn't there calling wisdom more precious
than rubies? Yes, and maybe in our world of instant
everything that sounds quaint like an exaggeration, it.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Might, but honestly, talk to anyone who's lived long enough
to really taste the consequences of both wise choices and
foolish ones.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
They'll tell you it's true.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
They'll tell you more precious than Ruby's is probably an understatement.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So the question we leave you with today is, well,
it's simple, but it's profound. Will you be one of
those people who actively seeks wisdom, who tries to tune
your ears to its quieter voice, who values it more
than the quick fix or the easy answer.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Will you join those throughout history who figured out that
real success isn't about what you accumulate, but about who
you become that path of wisdom.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
It isn't always the easiest route, but the consensus seems
to be it is always always worth it. It offers
gifts that money truly can't buy, and time can't erode.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Peace when things are chaotic, Clarity when you feel confused,
and that deep, enduring joy that can transform even sorrow.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
And the journey, it just starts with a single step,
a single choice, a quiet moment where you decide I
want to live wisely, and you know what that moment
could be right now