September 23, 2025 • 15 mins
(LinkedIn Post: A Moment of Reflection) Sometimes the most important conversations aren't about what we know, but about what we genuinely consider. I’ve been reflecting lately on the power of a question, especially those that force us to look past established dogma and into the heart of a person. If you had a moment to pause and reflect on one of history's most debated figures—Jesus—what internal questions does His story raise for you, personally? We often see historical figures—great leaders, profound teachers, or prophets—who serve as powerful messengers. The universal pattern among these revered figures is a determined humility: they consistently redirect all glory and honor away from themselves and toward a higher power. When offered worship, they forcefully, even frantically, reject it, proclaiming, "I am only a man myself!". But here is where the historical record presents a profound paradox, one that stirs the heart: When Jesus was offered the deepest form of worship (the Greek proskuneo), He accepted it. Not once did He rebuke those who bowed down to Him, even when the Jewish leaders clearly understood His claims as being tantamount to claiming to be God. This difference is striking. If every truly great messenger and servant of God throughout history rejected worship, what does it mean to you that Jesus calmly accepted it? It forces us to ask deep questions about identity:
James Henderson is the founder of Misa.solutions, a veteran-owned company bringing the Socratic Method into modern education through AI-powered tutoring. With a passion for helping K–12 students, homeschoolers, and educators move beyond memorization, he focuses on building curiosity, wisdom, and critical thinking for the next generation of learners.
- If Jesus knew He was merely a prophet, what kind of conviction—or deception—would allow Him to accept acts that prophets like Moses, Peter, and Paul vehemently refused?
- If we stripped away the centuries of tradition and looked at those radical, personal claims—"I am the way, the truth, and the life," or "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father"—how do you reconcile those words with the image of a 'good moral teacher'? C.S. Lewis suggested He must be liar, lunatic, or Lord; what makes that choice so demanding?
- What does it take for a group of followers—eyewitnesses, monotheists who abhorred idolatry—to become so utterly convinced of a person's identity that they were willing to abandon everything and face death for that belief?
James Henderson is the founder of Misa.solutions, a veteran-owned company bringing the Socratic Method into modern education through AI-powered tutoring. With a passion for helping K–12 students, homeschoolers, and educators move beyond memorization, he focuses on building curiosity, wisdom, and critical thinking for the next generation of learners.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the deep dive tonight. We're tackling, well, a
really huge question, one that's echoed for about two thousand years.
Was Jesus just a prophet, maybe a great teacher, or
was he something more?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's definitely not just a question for theologians. It's shaped history,
civilizations even and you know, our sources really frame the
core issue. Many people have, especially friends from say an
Islamic background, they ask, quite rightly, if Jesus was simply
God's messenger, why do Christians worship him?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Right? And that's a critical point the sources make. If
he was only a prophet and accepted worship, that's idolatry,
plain and simple. It undermines everything exactly.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But flip that coin if the evidence suggests he was
more than not, recognizing that identity carries its own profound weight.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So our approach here isn't a preach. We're just looking
at the evidence presented in the source material, asking questions
socratic method. Basically, we'll examine the claims, the actions and
the gospels, compare them to patterns we know, and just
see where it leads. And the foundational question, the one
that kept jumping out at me from the sources is this.
If Jesus was operating in the role of a prophet,
why do we see people worshiping him in the Gospels,
(01:10):
and crucially, why does he seem to accept it? That
seems to be the starting block.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It really is, because it clashes so dramatically with what everyone,
including Christianity and Islam, understands a prophet to be. Prophets
are chosen messengers, yes, human absolutely, servants of God always,
but never ever the object of worship.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Their main job description includes deflecting worship right, pointing only.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
To God precisely, always directing worship away from themselves, solely
towards the Creator. That's rule number one.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
And the scriptures are sources to point out show this
isn't just a guideline. It's like an immediate, forceful rejection.
It's quite startling, actually it is. You take Peter in
Acts ten Cornelius, the Roman centurion falls at his feet.
Peter doesn't just wave it off. He practically pulls him up,
saying stand up, I am only a man, my right.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Only a man. That's the consistent refrain, And think about
Paul and Barnabas and Lystra.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh yeah, when the crowd thought they were what Zeus and.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Hermes exactly and tried to offer sacrifices. Paul and Barnabas
didn't just say no thanks, They tore their clothes. That's
a sign of absolute horror, of grief. They shouted, we too,
are only human like you. They were genuinely appalled at
the idea.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
It was seen as blasphemy, pure and simple.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Utterly almost panic stricken. And it's not just humans. Even
the Angel in Revelation when John tries to worship him.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Same reaction, instant, stop, don't do that. I'm a fellow
servant worship God. It's like a hardwired response in God's messengers.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And what's interesting, as the sources know, is this isn't
unique to the Bible. The Quran in Surah three point
seventy nine reinforces this. It says, no prophet would ever
tell people be servants to Me rather than to Allah.
So there's this universal agreement on the prophet's role regarding worship.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, so that's the universal, non negotiable standard. You were
worship immediately forcefully. Then what are we supposed to make
of Jesus's reaction, which the Gospels portray as completely different.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It implies he saw himself operating under a different framework,
a different kind of authority. Let's look at those instances.
Matthew eight, a leper comes and the text says worships him.
Jesus heals him, no rebuke about the worship.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And his disciples after he calmed the storm by walking
on water.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
They worship him right there in the boat, saying, truly
you are the Son of God. Again acceptance.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
John nine, the man born blind. After Jesus heals him
and reveals himself, the man says, Lord, I believe, and
he worships him.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Except now you might ask, was this just deep respect,
like bowing to a king or a great teacher.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, that's a fair question. How do we know it's worship? Worship.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's where the specific Greek word used becomes really important.
It's proscuneo, and this word throughout the New Testament is
consistently used for the kind of reverence and adoration you
give only to God. It's not just showing respect, it's
the word for divine worship.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So when Peter and Paul freak out, they're rejecting prascuneo.
But Jesus doesn't.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
He receives it, and as doctor Michael Brown points out
in the source material, he receives it calmly, naturally, as
if it's his right, not with the panic or horror
you see from literally everyone else.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Okay, that contrast is stark. It really forces your hand,
doesn't it. Either he was a false prophet who somehow
got this fundamentally wrong, committing blasphemy by accepting.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Worship, or there was something about his actual identity that
made receiving worship perscunio appropriate. That's the dilemma the acceptance
of worship creates, and that.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Naturally leads us to look at the things he actually
said about himself claims it. Frankly, no ordinary prophet could
ever make without well inviting accusations of blasphemy. This is
where the idea of him being just a good moral
teacher starts to feel insufficient.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Exactly. Take John eight point five eight. Jesus is in
a debate and he drops this bombshell before was I am?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
And that wasn't just claiming to be.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Old, not at all? I am ego amy? In the
Greek that echoes the divine name God revealed to Moses,
the sacred name. Why hwh he was claiming pre existence
and using God's own self designation.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And the reaction of the religious leaders tells you everything
you need to know about how they understood it.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Instantly they picked up stones to kill him. That was
the prescribed punishment for blasphemy for a human claiming to
be God. They got the message loud and clear, and he.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Didn't say whoa misunderstanding. He doubled down later, didn't he?
John ten thirty I and the Father are.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
One same reaction. They grab stones again, saying explicitly because
you a mere man claimed to be God and noticed
Jesus argues with them, but he never denies their interpretation
of his words. He doesn't say no, no, I just
meant we have the same purpose. He defends the claim itself.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And then there's the claim to Philip, anyone who has
seen me has seen the Father. That's not something a
messenger about God says. That's claiming to be the revelation
of God.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
It's an ultimate claim. And this is where C. S.
Lewis comes in, as mentioned in the sources. With his
famous trilemma, Lewis argued that claims like these leave you
with only three possibilities for who Jesus was right, he's either.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
A liar deliberately deceiving people.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Or a lunatic sincerely believing he was God but being
tragically mistaken delusional.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
He was Lord exactly who he claimed to be.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And Lewis's point, which the source material really emphasizes, is
that the one option his claims don't leave open is
that he was merely a great moral teacher or just
a prophet. Good teachers don't make claims that, if untrue,
would make them insane or monumentally deceitful.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
The claims demand a more radical conclusion. Okay, so let's
shift from claims about identity to claims involving authority. There's
a difference in how prophets spoke versus how Jesus.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Spoke, a huge difference. Prophet's preface everything with thus says
the Lord or something similar. They're delivering a message from God.
They're the mouthpiece.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
But Jesus, look at the sermon on the Mount.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
He repeatedly says, you have heard that it was said.
But I say to you, he takes the established law,
the Torah, and doesn't just interpret it. He amends it,
demands it sometimes even seemingly countermands it on his own authority.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I say to you, that's not delegated authority. That sounds
like inherent authority.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
It does, and consider the authority to forgive sins. When
he tells the paralyzed man son, your sins are forgiven,
the religious leaders immediately and correctly from their perspective, think
who can forgive sins? But God alone.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
They recognize the implication.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Instantly, and Jesus knows they're thinking it, so he performs
the physical healing precisely to demonstrate that he does possess
the authority. He just claimed the authority to forgive sins,
something they understood as a divine prerogative.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
And this unique authority wasn't just over sin or law,
but over nature itself.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yes, and that's another key distinction. The sources draw. Prophets
performed miracles absolutely, but typically through prayer by asking God
to intervene. Elijah praise for fire, Moses, praise for the
seat apart.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
But Jesus seems to command things directly exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
He speaks to the storm peace be still. He speaks
to the dead man Lazarus come out. He doesn't seem
to be asking he seems to be commanding reality itself,
and the reaction.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
To the disciples wasn't just wow, cool miracle, it was
fear terror.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yes, what kind of man is this? Even the winds
and waves obey him. They sense this was authority on
a completely different level than they'd seen before, even from prophets.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It's interesting you mentioned the Koran earlier.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes, and the sources point out that even the Koran
acknowledges Jesus perform unique miracles, creating life from clay, healing
the blind and lepers, raising the dead. These are extraordinary
acknowledged feats.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
But the question the Gospel seemed to raise is how
he did them by his own word, by inherent power.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
That seems to be the implication. The manner of his
authority seems distinct, less like a conduit and more like
the source, which.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Leads us to maybe the biggest piece of evidence. The
source is present the resurrection. If Jesus was a blasphemer
making false claims about being divine.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Then you'd expect God to shut him down, expose him right,
not vindicate him in the most spectacular way possible.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Instead, the claim is that God raised him from the dead.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And the sources emphasize this wasn't just you know, coming
back to life temporarily, It was transformation into a new
kind of existence, immortal, glorified, and the impact on his
followers was well revolutionary.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
These were men who scattered and fled when he was arrested.
Peter denied him three.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Times, absolutely terrified. Yet mere weeks later, these same men
are standing up in Jerusalem boldly proclaiming Jesus's risen Lord,
facing beatings, imprisonment, and eventually, for most of them, martyrdom.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
People might die for what they believe is true, but
it's hard to imagine them dying for something they know
they made up exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
The risk reward just doesn't compute for a deliberate lie.
And think about Paul so All of Tarsus, a rising
star in Judaism, violently persecuting.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Christians, had everything going for him in his old life status, respect.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Everything to lose, and then boom, a complete one eighty turn.
He claims he encountered the risen Christ and spends the
rest of his life suffering hardship, persecution, and ultimately execution
all for that claim. What explains that if not a
genuine life altering conviction based on experience.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
The sources also mention historical groundwork, like Gary Harmas's work.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Right, he outlines what he calls minimal facts points about
Jesus's death and the aftermath that are so well attested
historically that even skeptical scholars often grant them. Things like
like Jesus died by Roman crucifixion, his disciples genuinely believed
they saw him alive afterwards. Paul did convert dramatically after
(10:48):
claiming an experience of the risen Jesus, and James, Jesus's
own brother, who was skeptical during Jesus's lifetime, suddenly became
a leader of the Jerusalem Church after claiming to see
him risen.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Those are significant historical data points that need some kind
of explanation.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
They do, and after the resurrection, the worship isn't just
accepted calmly. It becomes explicit.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Think of Thomas doubting Thomas's who.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Upon seeing the risen Jesus doesn't just say, oh, you're alive.
He declares, my Lord and my God. That's unambiguous.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
In Jesus's response, he doesn't correct him, He accepts it
and blesses those who believe without seeing, and.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
This filters directly into the practice of the earliest church.
These were devout monotheistic Jews. Yet we see Stephen as
he's being stoned to death praying directly to Jesus, Lord, Jesus,
receive my spirit.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
That's astonishing for a first century Jew.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
It is and their common prayer found even in Paul's
letters was Maranatha Aramaic for our Lord Come. They were
praying to Jesus, expecting his return, addressing him with the
title Lord in a way usually reserved for God.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Okay, this panints a pretty consistent picture from the sources,
But what about the common objections. People often say, Well,
Jesus never explicitly said I am God.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That's a frequent point, and the response in the source
material is that this misses the cultural and linguistic context.
His audience didn't need that exact sentence. His actions accepting
prascunio for giving sins, and his claims I am I
am the Father, are one seeing me see the Father
were understood as claims to divinity by the people right.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
There, which is why they tried to stone him.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Precisely, they reacted to the perceived blasphemy of the claims
he did make, the meaning was clear in that first
century Jewish context. Asking for one specific English phrase misunderstands
how he communicated and how he was understood.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Got it? What about the other big one? Jesus prayed
to the Father or he said things like the Father
is greater than I. Doesn't that prove he's subordinate, not equal,
not God.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
That's another key point the sources tackle, usually by explaining
the Christian doctor in the Trinity. The argument is that
these statements reflect Jesus's role as the incarnate Son during
his earthly mission, So.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It's about function, not essential nature.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Kind of. While fully God in his essential being, as
the Son living a human life, he voluntarily adopted a
position of submission and dependence on the Father to fulfill
that mission. He operated within the constraints of humanity, which
included prayer and acknowledging the Father's role.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So the argument is his praying doesn't negate his divine nature.
It demonstrates his genuine humanity during the incarnation exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It's presented as a paradox inherent in the idea of
God becoming human, fully God and fully man. It's termed
a mystery necessary for the plan of salvation, not necessarily
a contradiction that cancels out his claims to divinity.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Okay, So wrapping this deep dive up, the evidence presented
in the sources seems to force us away from easy
answers and towards a pretty stark choice.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
It really does. If we follow the logic presented, we're
left with roughly three ways to explain Jesus, especially his
acceptance of worship, which is so unlike any prophet.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
One, he was a false prophet, a blasphemer even, but
then you have to explain why go God seemed to
vindicate him with the resurrection and white people died for
that claim.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Two, the gospel accounts themselves are made up, legends created later.
But then you have to explain the rapid spread of
the faith, the martyrdom of eyewitnesses just decades later, and
conversions like Paul's and James's. Why die for a known lie?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Which leaves option three? He was who The gospels consistently
portray him as being more than a prophet, something unique
God revealed in human form.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
And the sources are careful to argue this isn't polytheism,
It's not suggesting Jesus as a second God alongside the Father.
The argument for the trinity is that it's one God
who exists and reveals himself in three distinct persons, Father, Son,
and Holy Spirit. It's presented as a way to understand
the complexity of God, not as adding partners.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
So applying this kind of questioning the Socratic approach to
the gospel evidence really does seem to eliminate that comfortable
middle ground. You can't easily just admire Jesus as a
good teacher and ignore his claims about who he was
or his acceptance of worship.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
All right, that's the challenge. Lewis highlighted his unique response
to worship, the one thing every prophet vehemently rejected, demands
an explanation. It forces a choice, and ultimately the sources
leave that question hanging, making it personal. Based on the
evidence laid out, who you say Jesus is
Welcome to the deep dive tonight. We're tackling, well, a
really huge question, one that's echoed for about two thousand years.
Was Jesus just a prophet, maybe a great teacher, or
was he something more?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's definitely not just a question for theologians. It's shaped history,
civilizations even and you know, our sources really frame the
core issue. Many people have, especially friends from say an
Islamic background, they ask, quite rightly, if Jesus was simply
God's messenger, why do Christians worship him?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Right? And that's a critical point the sources make. If
he was only a prophet and accepted worship, that's idolatry,
plain and simple. It undermines everything exactly.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But flip that coin if the evidence suggests he was
more than not, recognizing that identity carries its own profound weight.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So our approach here isn't a preach. We're just looking
at the evidence presented in the source material, asking questions
socratic method. Basically, we'll examine the claims, the actions and
the gospels, compare them to patterns we know, and just
see where it leads. And the foundational question, the one
that kept jumping out at me from the sources is this.
If Jesus was operating in the role of a prophet,
why do we see people worshiping him in the Gospels,
(01:10):
and crucially, why does he seem to accept it? That
seems to be the starting block.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It really is, because it clashes so dramatically with what everyone,
including Christianity and Islam, understands a prophet to be. Prophets
are chosen messengers, yes, human absolutely, servants of God always,
but never ever the object of worship.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Their main job description includes deflecting worship right, pointing only.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
To God precisely, always directing worship away from themselves, solely
towards the Creator. That's rule number one.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
And the scriptures are sources to point out show this
isn't just a guideline. It's like an immediate, forceful rejection.
It's quite startling, actually it is. You take Peter in
Acts ten Cornelius, the Roman centurion falls at his feet.
Peter doesn't just wave it off. He practically pulls him up,
saying stand up, I am only a man, my right.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Only a man. That's the consistent refrain, And think about
Paul and Barnabas and Lystra.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh yeah, when the crowd thought they were what Zeus and.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Hermes exactly and tried to offer sacrifices. Paul and Barnabas
didn't just say no thanks, They tore their clothes. That's
a sign of absolute horror, of grief. They shouted, we too,
are only human like you. They were genuinely appalled at
the idea.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
It was seen as blasphemy, pure and simple.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Utterly almost panic stricken. And it's not just humans. Even
the Angel in Revelation when John tries to worship him.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Same reaction, instant, stop, don't do that. I'm a fellow
servant worship God. It's like a hardwired response in God's messengers.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And what's interesting, as the sources know, is this isn't
unique to the Bible. The Quran in Surah three point
seventy nine reinforces this. It says, no prophet would ever
tell people be servants to Me rather than to Allah.
So there's this universal agreement on the prophet's role regarding worship.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, so that's the universal, non negotiable standard. You were
worship immediately forcefully. Then what are we supposed to make
of Jesus's reaction, which the Gospels portray as completely different.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It implies he saw himself operating under a different framework,
a different kind of authority. Let's look at those instances.
Matthew eight, a leper comes and the text says worships him.
Jesus heals him, no rebuke about the worship.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And his disciples after he calmed the storm by walking
on water.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
They worship him right there in the boat, saying, truly
you are the Son of God. Again acceptance.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
John nine, the man born blind. After Jesus heals him
and reveals himself, the man says, Lord, I believe, and
he worships him.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Except now you might ask, was this just deep respect,
like bowing to a king or a great teacher.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, that's a fair question. How do we know it's worship? Worship.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's where the specific Greek word used becomes really important.
It's proscuneo, and this word throughout the New Testament is
consistently used for the kind of reverence and adoration you
give only to God. It's not just showing respect, it's
the word for divine worship.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So when Peter and Paul freak out, they're rejecting prascuneo.
But Jesus doesn't.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
He receives it, and as doctor Michael Brown points out
in the source material, he receives it calmly, naturally, as
if it's his right, not with the panic or horror
you see from literally everyone else.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Okay, that contrast is stark. It really forces your hand,
doesn't it. Either he was a false prophet who somehow
got this fundamentally wrong, committing blasphemy by accepting.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Worship, or there was something about his actual identity that
made receiving worship perscunio appropriate. That's the dilemma the acceptance
of worship creates, and that.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Naturally leads us to look at the things he actually
said about himself claims it. Frankly, no ordinary prophet could
ever make without well inviting accusations of blasphemy. This is
where the idea of him being just a good moral
teacher starts to feel insufficient.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Exactly. Take John eight point five eight. Jesus is in
a debate and he drops this bombshell before was I am?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
And that wasn't just claiming to be.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Old, not at all? I am ego amy? In the
Greek that echoes the divine name God revealed to Moses,
the sacred name. Why hwh he was claiming pre existence
and using God's own self designation.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And the reaction of the religious leaders tells you everything
you need to know about how they understood it.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Instantly they picked up stones to kill him. That was
the prescribed punishment for blasphemy for a human claiming to
be God. They got the message loud and clear, and he.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Didn't say whoa misunderstanding. He doubled down later, didn't he?
John ten thirty I and the Father are.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
One same reaction. They grab stones again, saying explicitly because
you a mere man claimed to be God and noticed
Jesus argues with them, but he never denies their interpretation
of his words. He doesn't say no, no, I just
meant we have the same purpose. He defends the claim itself.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And then there's the claim to Philip, anyone who has
seen me has seen the Father. That's not something a
messenger about God says. That's claiming to be the revelation
of God.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
It's an ultimate claim. And this is where C. S.
Lewis comes in, as mentioned in the sources. With his
famous trilemma, Lewis argued that claims like these leave you
with only three possibilities for who Jesus was right, he's either.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
A liar deliberately deceiving people.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Or a lunatic sincerely believing he was God but being
tragically mistaken delusional.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
He was Lord exactly who he claimed to be.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And Lewis's point, which the source material really emphasizes, is
that the one option his claims don't leave open is
that he was merely a great moral teacher or just
a prophet. Good teachers don't make claims that, if untrue,
would make them insane or monumentally deceitful.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
The claims demand a more radical conclusion. Okay, so let's
shift from claims about identity to claims involving authority. There's
a difference in how prophets spoke versus how Jesus.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Spoke, a huge difference. Prophet's preface everything with thus says
the Lord or something similar. They're delivering a message from God.
They're the mouthpiece.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
But Jesus, look at the sermon on the Mount.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
He repeatedly says, you have heard that it was said.
But I say to you, he takes the established law,
the Torah, and doesn't just interpret it. He amends it,
demands it sometimes even seemingly countermands it on his own authority.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I say to you, that's not delegated authority. That sounds
like inherent authority.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
It does, and consider the authority to forgive sins. When
he tells the paralyzed man son, your sins are forgiven,
the religious leaders immediately and correctly from their perspective, think
who can forgive sins? But God alone.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
They recognize the implication.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Instantly, and Jesus knows they're thinking it, so he performs
the physical healing precisely to demonstrate that he does possess
the authority. He just claimed the authority to forgive sins,
something they understood as a divine prerogative.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
And this unique authority wasn't just over sin or law,
but over nature itself.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yes, and that's another key distinction. The sources draw. Prophets
performed miracles absolutely, but typically through prayer by asking God
to intervene. Elijah praise for fire, Moses, praise for the
seat apart.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
But Jesus seems to command things directly exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
He speaks to the storm peace be still. He speaks
to the dead man Lazarus come out. He doesn't seem
to be asking he seems to be commanding reality itself,
and the reaction.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
To the disciples wasn't just wow, cool miracle, it was
fear terror.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yes, what kind of man is this? Even the winds
and waves obey him. They sense this was authority on
a completely different level than they'd seen before, even from prophets.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It's interesting you mentioned the Koran earlier.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes, and the sources point out that even the Koran
acknowledges Jesus perform unique miracles, creating life from clay, healing
the blind and lepers, raising the dead. These are extraordinary
acknowledged feats.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
But the question the Gospel seemed to raise is how
he did them by his own word, by inherent power.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
That seems to be the implication. The manner of his
authority seems distinct, less like a conduit and more like
the source, which.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Leads us to maybe the biggest piece of evidence. The
source is present the resurrection. If Jesus was a blasphemer
making false claims about being divine.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Then you'd expect God to shut him down, expose him right,
not vindicate him in the most spectacular way possible.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Instead, the claim is that God raised him from the dead.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And the sources emphasize this wasn't just you know, coming
back to life temporarily, It was transformation into a new
kind of existence, immortal, glorified, and the impact on his
followers was well revolutionary.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
These were men who scattered and fled when he was arrested.
Peter denied him three.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Times, absolutely terrified. Yet mere weeks later, these same men
are standing up in Jerusalem boldly proclaiming Jesus's risen Lord,
facing beatings, imprisonment, and eventually, for most of them, martyrdom.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
People might die for what they believe is true, but
it's hard to imagine them dying for something they know
they made up exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
The risk reward just doesn't compute for a deliberate lie.
And think about Paul so All of Tarsus, a rising
star in Judaism, violently persecuting.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Christians, had everything going for him in his old life status, respect.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Everything to lose, and then boom, a complete one eighty turn.
He claims he encountered the risen Christ and spends the
rest of his life suffering hardship, persecution, and ultimately execution
all for that claim. What explains that if not a
genuine life altering conviction based on experience.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
The sources also mention historical groundwork, like Gary Harmas's work.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Right, he outlines what he calls minimal facts points about
Jesus's death and the aftermath that are so well attested
historically that even skeptical scholars often grant them. Things like
like Jesus died by Roman crucifixion, his disciples genuinely believed
they saw him alive afterwards. Paul did convert dramatically after
(10:48):
claiming an experience of the risen Jesus, and James, Jesus's
own brother, who was skeptical during Jesus's lifetime, suddenly became
a leader of the Jerusalem Church after claiming to see
him risen.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Those are significant historical data points that need some kind
of explanation.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
They do, and after the resurrection, the worship isn't just
accepted calmly. It becomes explicit.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Think of Thomas doubting Thomas's who.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Upon seeing the risen Jesus doesn't just say, oh, you're alive.
He declares, my Lord and my God. That's unambiguous.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
In Jesus's response, he doesn't correct him, He accepts it
and blesses those who believe without seeing, and.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
This filters directly into the practice of the earliest church.
These were devout monotheistic Jews. Yet we see Stephen as
he's being stoned to death praying directly to Jesus, Lord, Jesus,
receive my spirit.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
That's astonishing for a first century Jew.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
It is and their common prayer found even in Paul's
letters was Maranatha Aramaic for our Lord Come. They were
praying to Jesus, expecting his return, addressing him with the
title Lord in a way usually reserved for God.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Okay, this panints a pretty consistent picture from the sources,
But what about the common objections. People often say, Well,
Jesus never explicitly said I am God.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That's a frequent point, and the response in the source
material is that this misses the cultural and linguistic context.
His audience didn't need that exact sentence. His actions accepting
prascunio for giving sins, and his claims I am I
am the Father, are one seeing me see the Father
were understood as claims to divinity by the people right.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
There, which is why they tried to stone him.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Precisely, they reacted to the perceived blasphemy of the claims
he did make, the meaning was clear in that first
century Jewish context. Asking for one specific English phrase misunderstands
how he communicated and how he was understood.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Got it? What about the other big one? Jesus prayed
to the Father or he said things like the Father
is greater than I. Doesn't that prove he's subordinate, not equal,
not God.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
That's another key point the sources tackle, usually by explaining
the Christian doctor in the Trinity. The argument is that
these statements reflect Jesus's role as the incarnate Son during
his earthly mission, So.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It's about function, not essential nature.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Kind of. While fully God in his essential being, as
the Son living a human life, he voluntarily adopted a
position of submission and dependence on the Father to fulfill
that mission. He operated within the constraints of humanity, which
included prayer and acknowledging the Father's role.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So the argument is his praying doesn't negate his divine nature.
It demonstrates his genuine humanity during the incarnation exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It's presented as a paradox inherent in the idea of
God becoming human, fully God and fully man. It's termed
a mystery necessary for the plan of salvation, not necessarily
a contradiction that cancels out his claims to divinity.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Okay, So wrapping this deep dive up, the evidence presented
in the sources seems to force us away from easy
answers and towards a pretty stark choice.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
It really does. If we follow the logic presented, we're
left with roughly three ways to explain Jesus, especially his
acceptance of worship, which is so unlike any prophet.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
One, he was a false prophet, a blasphemer even, but
then you have to explain why go God seemed to
vindicate him with the resurrection and white people died for
that claim.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Two, the gospel accounts themselves are made up, legends created later.
But then you have to explain the rapid spread of
the faith, the martyrdom of eyewitnesses just decades later, and
conversions like Paul's and James's. Why die for a known lie?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Which leaves option three? He was who The gospels consistently
portray him as being more than a prophet, something unique
God revealed in human form.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
And the sources are careful to argue this isn't polytheism,
It's not suggesting Jesus as a second God alongside the Father.
The argument for the trinity is that it's one God
who exists and reveals himself in three distinct persons, Father, Son,
and Holy Spirit. It's presented as a way to understand
the complexity of God, not as adding partners.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
So applying this kind of questioning the Socratic approach to
the gospel evidence really does seem to eliminate that comfortable
middle ground. You can't easily just admire Jesus as a
good teacher and ignore his claims about who he was
or his acceptance of worship.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
All right, that's the challenge. Lewis highlighted his unique response
to worship, the one thing every prophet vehemently rejected, demands
an explanation. It forces a choice, and ultimately the sources
leave that question hanging, making it personal. Based on the
evidence laid out, who you say Jesus is
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