July 23, 2025 • 50 mins
What if everything we thought we knew about youth sports was wrong? What if the path to raising successful, happy athletes isn't through early specialization, elite programs, and intense training schedules for elementary-aged children?
Coach Bobby joins us to challenge conventional wisdom about youth sports with research-backed insights from his 15+ years of coaching experience. Having worked with athletes from toddlers to professionals, Bobby has crafted a revolutionary approach to introducing young children to sports through his "Have a Ball" multi-sport program.
His philosophy—"no lines, no laps, no lectures"—creates an environment where children ages 1-5 can actively engage with multiple sports simultaneously, building fundamental skills while maintaining what matters most: the joy of play. Through a unique combination of free exploration and short, focused skill-building activities, children develop athletically while parents learn effective ways to support their physical development.
We dive deep into the troubling statistics showing 75% of kids abandoning structured sports by age 13, exploring how early specialization contributes to this dropout rate despite good intentions from parents and coaches. Bobby shares compelling evidence that even top college coaches and professional athletes advocate for multi-sport participation over single-sport specialization for young children.
The conversation offers practical guidance for parents navigating youth sports decisions, emphasizing listening to your child, making decisions as a family, and prioritizing fun and friendship—the two primary reasons research shows children participate in sports. Bobby's passion for creating positive, developmental environments where children build confidence, resilience, and social skills through sport shines throughout our discussion.
Ready to rethink youth sports? Listen now and discover how supporting your child's multi-sport exploration might be the best gift you can give their athletic future and overall wellbeing. Want to experience Coach Bobby's revolutionary approach firsthand? Check out his website for free demo days and drop-in options.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey friends and welcome to MomTalk Maryland.
I'm your host, claire Duarte,founder of the Columbia Mom, and
this is your spot for realconversations, local love and a
whole lot of community.
Whether you're folding laundry,running errands or hiding in
your car for some peace andquiet, let's dive in, alright?
Well, thanks so much forjoining me today.
(00:20):
I am coming to you from theMaryland Innovation Center once
again, and today I have with uscoach Bobby, who I've shared a
little bit on our Instagramtalking about his awesome
classes, and today I kind ofwanted to get to know, obviously
, well, obviously I've gotten toknow you, but share more about
(00:42):
your background, why multi-sportand we we're going to kind of
deep dive into that a little bitmore today.
So, anyways, without furtherado, here's Coach Bobby.
Hi how are you Thanks for havingme?
This is awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I know I was proud of you on the podcast because I
love an opportunity to justreally talk about all this stuff
and why it matters.
I think it can seem very simpleon the outside we offer sports
for kids but there is a deepermeaning as to why we do it.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, absolutely so.
For anyone that's maybe new orhasn't heard about you, can you
give me, give us, a little bitof a background on you and tell
us about your business?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Sure, so I've been.
It's odd to say I've been ayouth coach for over 15 years,
because it's definitely not.
It has not been a full-timecareer for that entire time.
When I first graduated college,I actually started a business
doing leadership and teambuilding.
So I was working with sportsteams, high school, middle
school kids, as well as collegeteams.
That evolved into working withsome professional groups and
(01:39):
doing some corporate trainingtype stuff, and then on the side
I was always coaching.
I thought I wanted to be acollege coach.
At one point I was a lacrosseplayer.
I coached junior college atHartford Community College for
one season and I loved coaching.
I did not like recruiting.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I found that just boring and not what I wanted to
do.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
And so I stopped doing that and was kind of
looking for what I reallyenjoyed.
And what I found I reallyenjoyed was youth coaching.
I coached third grade lacrosse.
I ended up I coached highschool at St John's College.
High school was my most recentstint and, again, none of those
were ever full-time gigs in thatspace and I did look into
(02:19):
different club programs to be acoach or a director at and we
can get into the podcast whythat wasn't the route for me,
found myself actually throughthat conversation of wanting
something that was moremulti-sport, more focused on fun
, more focused on development.
Found myself as a co-director ofa sleepaway camp in the.
(02:39):
Catskills of New York, whichwas amazing it was a lot of fun,
my entire family.
We went up there from MemorialDay to Labor Day every year.
It involved.
We hosted weddings, we hostedsports camps, we hosted retreats
, so it was a great experience,but this is ultimately, you know
, coming spending the summerhere this summer for the first
time since being a kid, andstarting Coach Bobby is an
(03:03):
outgrowth of that.
It's saying this is what Ireally want to do and bring to
the world of sports.
And, and it being the businessis saying how can this be what I
do full-time, instead of just,you know, coaching my kids at
nights and on weekends?
Not that that's right.
I have a two-year-old and athree-month-old, so they're not.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
They're not into it yet.
But yeah, not that I don't wantto coach them.
She likes the classes.
Yeah, but I don't want to coachthem.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
She likes the classes , but I don't have to.
You know, maybe someday I'llcoach their teams.
But being able to bring this tothe community is what I've
ultimately wanted to do for awhile now.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, so tell me a little bit more about your.
Have a ball classes.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So have a ball is when you come in.
I think the key factor is whenyou get to the gym.
Everything's already set up.
So, as some of your videosshowed, we have basketball,
which is age appropriate,because these particular classes
right now are for ages one tofive years old, which seems like
a wide range.
The concept is you can bringyour whole what I call stay at
home family.
So it started with differentage brackets of two year old,
(04:00):
three year old, four year old,five year old class, and then I
would have parents reach out andsay you know, I've got a two
year old and a five year old athome.
Can I bring them both to thesame class?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
And I'm very much like let's try it and see what
happens.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So the first.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I was.
I was very honest.
I was like how about you bringthem?
We'll see what happens.
If it's not good, we won't doit, and so there's a lot of free
play where the kids come in.
There's basketball, hockey,soccer, lacrosse, baseball, all
this stuff and it's all softequipment so kids can use it on
their own.
They're not going to get hurtand the first 10, 15 minutes is
(04:36):
just free play, letting thesekids explore and try things out.
I then bring the group in tothe center, where I have.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Home Depot buckets you can get wraps.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I'll eventually brand them, but I've been using.
I don't know they might becomepart of your brand.
It's kind of a thing.
Now I actually have had parentssend me videos of their kids
using Home Depot buckets at home, but that started, I don't know
again, coaching sport For me Iactually started doing that at
sleepaway camp is we had thesebuckets and I was seeking ways
to not put kids in lines.
(05:04):
I don't want kids in linewaiting to hit a baseball, then
80% of your class is waiting inline.
I can remember as a kid waitingin line.
You get up there and even ifyou don't hit it, you've got to
go back to the back of the lineand wait again.
And so that's where the bucketscame from was how can I create
(05:26):
environments where the kids arenot in lines and they're
constantly doing the thing thatwe're trying to learn, whether
it's catching, throwing, hitting, and so everything's the bucket
based circle time.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So we'll do that for about three minutes.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's very fast and then you're back to free play
for another three minutes.
Then you're back to the bucketsfor three minutes and then it's
a nine week class.
By the end of the nine weeks wewill have done skill based
instruction with each sport.
So, we start with catching andthrowing, then we move on to
jumping, catching and throwing,then we move on to using the
hockey sticks, then we move onto the lacrosse sticks you name
it, and it's just testing andtrying out each of these
(05:54):
different things by the end ofthe nine weeks.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, and now that I've officially gone to two
classes and I think it's reallycool hearing you kind of break
it down, because you're not justlike a pre-K director or
manager overseeing the chaos,like there is a method to the
madness.
There's almost like acurriculum, if you may.
Like you said, you're movingthem through multiple different
(06:18):
sports, multiple differentskills and there's
intentionality with eachstructure.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, and the foundational principle for me is
the and I didn't make this up,it's from long-term athlete
development.
They say no lines, no laps, nolectures, no laps, no lectures.
Hopefully it's not relevant forthis age group there are some
coaches that might do it but nolines for me.
Because even when I wascoaching middle school lacrosse,
I was really committed to nolines and the varsity coach
(06:45):
would come to my practice everynow and again and was like have
you never heard of line drills?
Have you never heard of like?
He was just so thrilled by thisidea and I was very committed
to.
This is how I want to do it,because I also experienced it.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
You know when I was coaching at St John's they
didn't do lines.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
That is a 60 minute practice of these players just
running the entire time, and sothere's no conditioning that
they're doing.
And when I was there I say itbecause it's relevant we were
the number one team in thecountry, like we won the
national championship.
When we were there, I was anassistant coach.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I'm not because of bobby.
Let's make sure that that is onit's relevant.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's relevant because , uh, then it obviously it works
and obviously it's okay forthem.
And so why is it not okay forour four or five and six year
olds to say we don't need to beconditioning, we just need to
constantly be running for theentire 4560 minutes that?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
we're right, that's huge.
And I mean I remember yousharing with me a little bit
about your St John's bit, but Ididn't think, and even even
winning, but I didn't realizethe intricacies of, like you
said, there wasn't any realconditioning.
But I mean that's kind of thepower of it and I think again, I
am not a PT, I'm not an OT oryou know a child psychologist to
(07:57):
understand all this.
But I was like I feel like itjust makes so much sense,
especially for this age group,makes so much sense, especially
for this age group.
But obviously we're arguing,even for the high schoolers too,
that just this methodologybehind I need better words for
this but kind of like they're,kind of they're keeping or just
the principle you said, no lines, no laps no lectures.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
There we go, I'm going to learn it.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
You know so, because I think especially for those
younger kids.
I mean, I have a now.
He just turned five a five yearold and a six year old, and
like a six year old came toclass.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Right, she did come to class, yeah, and for the
record.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I was like, and I, when I was you know, because I
was filming last week and Ipurposely didn't put her in the
video because I was like, well,these classes, and first of all,
she's so tall, like she'snotably taller than most
five-year-olds, so, um, becauseshe's almost seven, but um and I
, when she got there, she waslike, oh, I don't want to do
because she saw a lot of littlekids, and then we started she,
(08:54):
um, she loved it and she didn'tstop.
And then at one point I lookedover some of your activities,
like she had her, she dominatedhungry.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
She dominated Hungry Hungry Hippos.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I was like oh bro let's maybe slow it down.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
She had so much fun saving.
They didn't know it.
That was great.
No, but I was like, oh, butthat's one of my favorites, I
actually there was this pastweekend a family.
So the way I do the because Iwant it to be a family class and
my website doesn't allow me toregister someone who signs a
waiver for free this waiver forfree this is the stuff behind
(09:26):
the stuff, right?
So I made it one dollar that'sthe.
It's a one dollar rate for asibling.
So if you sign up your firstkid, so you sign up for
two-year-old and you have a fourand a five-year-old, you can
sign them up for one dollar.
And so it's took and honestly,that came from I.
We have a two and a half yearold and we now have a three
month old, and when the thesecond one was born, I looked at
my wife and I was like so wait,all of our expenses just double
.
Like are we just paying foreverything?
(09:48):
And I get it Like from abusiness perspective, like a
seat is a seat, but in thisparticular class.
For me a bucket is a bucketYou're with your kids on a
bucket and I recognized, like itdoesn't take any more work for
me.
The gym is big enough that wecan do a family class and just
the reality of it is most like Ithink I cap the classes at 12
(10:09):
participants and most my classeshave nine or ten unique
families, so not everybody'sbringing those siblings.
So, anyways, this family comesthis past weekend and they have
their daughter with them who'snot registered, and the mom says
like she's just here to observe.
She didn't want to sign up forclass and we didn't want to
pressure into it literallywithin five minutes, the mom is
running out grabbing a bucketand she goes I'll give you a
dollar.
(10:29):
And she sits down because thedaughter wanted to play.
Yeah, and, and I think that'sfor me a, I love seeing it.
B, that's kind of like the, theproof in the concept, which is
kids do just want to play.
Their aspenpen Institute, basedout of DC, has done a lot of
research on long-term athletedevelopment.
Their studies say the top tworeasons kids participate in
(10:51):
sports is they want to have funand they want to play with their
friends.
And that's it, and so that'sthe goal.
How do we create an environmentwhere they have fun and play
with their friends?
Not an environment where I'mnot anti-tryouts at a certain
age, but if you're doing tryoutsat third grade, fourth grade,
like even younger than that,right now you're taking them.
(11:11):
Even if they make the eliteteam, they're not playing with
their friends and are theyhaving fun?
Right, the goal is making thiselite team or playing in this
environment.
So maybe it is not saying it notalways is based on your kid
based on the situation, yeah,but top two reasons fun and play
with your friends, and so howwe create more of those
environments I love that and Ithink that's so important.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
And I think one thing that, like I went as I was
getting to know you and yourbusiness and um, that uh that we
clicked on like from the jumpto, is you know, um, what's the
kind of philosophy?
I mean, it's basicallyeverything that you embody and
build the business around.
But I kind of think of um otherinstitutions, like dominique
dawes gym and because they'revery similar in their um
(11:51):
philosophy too, of, you know,essentially just supporting kids
, um, you know, to have funwhile getting skill building,
because I I think we're tryingto break free of the um trophy
for every.
I mean there obviously is plentyof value, but I think the
negative optics with that isthat, like you know, are they
(12:12):
actually learning?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Are they?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
getting you know constructive skill building with
that and I think this is againfull proof of that.
You know, I see it at placeslike Dominique Dawes and I see
it with what you're doing hereand that's, frankly, just so
exciting.
And I think, as a parent who,again, I was not a college-level
athlete but I did do rec soccerand my high school soccer team
(12:39):
was very rigorous I had verymuch no line drills in summer
soccer camp and the intensitywith a lot of that Again, not
that there's, you know,necessarily problems with all of
that there's a great skillbuilding that I learned from a
lot of that.
But I think, you know, havingthis philosophy and introducing
this to our kids at this age isjust, it's not only just
(13:00):
refreshing but it's just I feellike it's so needed and so
appropriate for this age groupyou know, all right, refreshing,
but it's just I feel like it'sso needed and so appropriate for
this age group.
You know, um, all right and um,I think this is kind of neat.
So you just basically said thisabout kids play sports for two
for the two reasons, so kind ofon that same breath, like
(13:20):
letting kids be kids and, youknow, finding balance between
structure and free play in youthsports, which is essentially
kind of what you've beenmodeling all of this.
So why do you think free playis so undervalued in modern
youth programs?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It's a great question because it seems to me very
obvious that there's great valuein free play and I think a lot
of coaches would agree with thattoo.
I have my opinion and that's it.
I think the only thing I canthink of is when you are putting
on a program and you're askingparents to spend money and
(13:58):
you're asking parents to driveand spend time, like you know
the weight of that At some level.
As coaches, as directors ofthese programs, we almost
sometimes feel that we have tobe doing something all the time.
We have to be creating thesedrills, these games, these
environments.
I felt that way when I firststarted class and I remember my
first couple of classes, thatyou know there'd be parents that
(14:21):
we would do three minutes of askill and then I would start to
get into another skill and youwould see the kids starting to
wander off and the parents aredragging them back and listen at
some level.
It's important that kids learn,you know, to sit and listen and
do whatever Right At a certainage.
I also think there should be agreat environment that just lets
them go play, and so that'swhere it came from.
(14:41):
For me is I don't.
I also didn't.
As a parent, I've been todifferent classes where I'm
doing this to bond with my kidand I find myself ragging on my
kid the entire time of rightmakes you participate makes you
come back, makes you do thiswhen I start my classes.
I say, listen, uh, you know, ifyou, if we ask your kid to come
back to the center and theydon't come back at this class,
(15:02):
I'm okay with that right uh, andI'm not always okay with that.
I'm not taking a stance as aparent that we should just never
tell our kids what to do inthis class.
Let your kid come when theywant.
And there was a great I I'llhave to look up the podcast for
you.
There was a podcast of apsychologist who was saying that
over a lot of schools usecircle time right, uh, and it's
over time the kids will want toback and I've seen that over the
(15:25):
course of the night weeks.
There was one kid who just wouldnot come to circle time and I
was like, just like, let's lethim do his thing.
By week three he was comingover, he was participating, he
was engaging, and so that doeshappen, even when free play is
possible.
The second part of yourquestion is you know just why
free play?
And again just going back tolong-term athlete development
research, anyone who's listeningcan just google ltad and the
(15:46):
value of free play and there is.
I'm not a ptot phys ed majorresearcher either.
I'm a coach who just wasstarting to see um a lack of
creativity in sports, a lack ofjoy in sports, and and so just
giving them that opportunity tofree play is really powerful
right the other irony of it is,when I started these classes, my
(16:07):
dad uh laughed and said I don'tget it, why not just do this in
the backyard or in the driveway?
And and the truth is it's justnot happening anymore yeah so
absolutely like right.
If, if, if you can create anenvironment in your neighborhood
or your community where kidsare coming together to play and
pick up basketball, then that'sreally powerful.
(16:28):
Let them do that and just play.
If that's not happening, thenthis is an opportunity to come
and, yes, we are having someskill building in it, but it's
also an opportunity for them tojust run around and explore
Right.
The other side of free play ata young age is kids discover
things they wouldn't otherwise.
Yeah, dad was a baseball guy.
He knew nothing about lacrosse.
I found lacrosse, ended uploving lacrosse and I coach it,
(16:50):
I watch it.
It's my sport to this day and Ihave kids already in class who
I get texts all the time fromparents.
They're like our family knowsnothing about soccer.
We've never played soccer andour kid asked for a soccer ball,
wants a soccer goal, isobsessed with it because they
learned it in your class yeah Ialso get.
I get this a lot too, being inmaryland yeah families that are
like we're from florida orpennsylvania or wherever and we
(17:14):
were trying to keep our kid awayfrom lacrosse for whatever
reason and they're like, and nowour kid loves lacrosse because
they found it at your, yourclass.
But it's a great sport, right?
so that's the other thing too isyou let your kid figure out
what they want to do instead ofyou, and it doesn't come from a
bad place.
We just introduce our kids towhat we like and what we enjoy,
instead of giving them anenvironment or opportunity to
(17:35):
find it themselves.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, and I think that so beautifully.
Kind of pairs again going allthe way back to your core values
and what you're trying to drivewith these kids.
And oh my gosh, my next pointwas escaping me.
Um, oh well, here's what I'llmention too.
Um, kind of picking back off.
You're talking about, like youknow, kids playing like out in
the streets again you know, I'ma 90s baby, so like again,
(17:59):
that's how I grew up and how Iwas raised.
But I also was kind of thinkingabout the structure of my
neighborhood.
It was a brand new neighborhoodwhen my parents like bought in,
so they were all young families, all little kids.
Now where I live in columbia,like I'm one of the only houses
with kids on my entire streetand now I know that's not all
columbia, there's plenty of,like you know, people's
neighborhoods that are litteredwith kids.
So for that aspect, like we justliterally like my kids don't
(18:20):
even have the option to go out,and like we can tell them to go
out and play, but it's like theydon't have anybody to play with
, you know.
So there's that aspect of youknow, depending on where you
live, your neighborhoodsituation.
But two, I think what's alsoreally appealing, coming from
the mom perspective, like myperspective, like you know, I
mean, I've shared this to you athousand times and as like,
specifically, like I myself amobviously a COVID mom.
(18:43):
So, like you know, I didn't havethe opportunity to take my
young kids out to do anyactivities like this during that
time frame, um so like hurts myheart a little bit, but I'm
like I know I'm definitely draggrant in one of these days he
will literally go nuts, um, butuh, you know, I think for moms
too, I think it's a really coolit's, it's.
(19:04):
I don't think in any way this islabeled or branded as a as a
mommy me class, because it's afamily class and it really is.
I mean, obviously it's themajority of women that you know
are bringing their kids in, butit's such a cool, different type
of mommy and me class if it's,you know, in that genre a little
bit.
Because, you're getting to dosomething else that's not just
like circle time or library orreading books, like your kids
(19:26):
are active and just like yousaid.
Like I mean, when I first heardthe range of like zero to five,
I was like that feels reallybroad.
I was like how are you going tocapture all those kids?
And like literally like my onlyway to like describe is like you
need to see it, sort of inaction you know what I mean and
like see, like how each kid cankind of like do their own thing
and you know the parents arethere.
(19:46):
So you, everyone gets to bephysical and everyone gets to be
active and I think that's sohealthy, obviously from the
physical standpoint.
But I also like think about,like you know, I feel like I've
been spending so much time doinglike all these deep dives with
my own son and his growth anddevelopment, um, cause there's a
whole host of things that we'redoing with him, um, and I just
think about, you know, know,kids brain development,
(20:07):
especially at that age, howimportant that is for like
essentially constant sensoryinput.
You know what I mean, a lot ofthis is obviously gross motor,
but it's all still theintegration of fine motor skills
too, which again I think ishuge for this age group and
you're right about the.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I never like it branded it as a mommy and me or
parent me, class and 100.
I mean that's especially atthis age.
It's necessary.
When you read the website Imake very clear like, yeah, when
you come and I set up anactivity which is playing catch
like you are playing catch withyour kid, it's not drop off the
kid.
Yes, exactly and and the truthis there's research behind that
about this age kids.
(20:44):
While I can come over and givethem a high five after they do a
good job, they much more valuethe high five from their mom or
their dad or their grandparentor whoever's bringing them.
This is that environment to dothat, and my goal is to that you
can take these activities homewith you.
One of the you know my favoriteactivities is teaching a kid
how to catch because I didn'tknow how to do that.
(21:05):
Like when my daughter was born Iwas tossing her a ball and she
puts her hands kind of flat outand down and it just hits off
her chest.
And so I Googled how do youteach a kid how to catch a ball?
And I found it was this oldvideo Like it had to be like a
grainy video that was up yearsago but it still works and
that's where the basket camefrom.
As you create a basket, youtoss the ball through the basket
(21:31):
and then you tell them now hugit so that it doesn't fall
through the basket, and they'reinherently learning to keep it
up like this or kids will snatchat it, which they can't do, and
so parents can take that homeand do that at home.
It's a simple.
It's teaching you how to playwith your kids in the backyard.
Which so much of sports we do.
What was done to us, and nodifferent than when a parent
decides to volunteer to coachtheir kid and they don't know
(21:53):
what to do.
This isn't their full-time job,and so you just coach the way
you were coached.
And just because the way youwere coached doesn't mean it was
the right way.
It doesn't mean it was thewrong way, but there's a lot of
value and there's so muchinformation out there now and
it's so easy to find it insaying well, what is the right
way and how can we do iteffectively?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So that's the other thing I love people to take away
is, yes, it's once a week fornine weeks, right, and you can
take these games home and dothem at home too, because you
are there learning with yourkids Literally Right, and you
know you mentioned the partabout parents doing the
activities with their kidsduring the class and they're
(22:31):
validating their kids and Iactually think that is something
that's really awesome andunique, While obviously getting
external trust and relationshipbuilding with other adults in
their life at this age isobviously really helpful if
they're in an environment wherethey're trying something new
that they might not have skillsin, or they're learning that
they might have potential skillsor talents in for them to get
(22:53):
affirmations, you know,positively in a good environment
.
So you know, and they're alsogetting social skills, even
though they're not, maybe notnecessarily interacting with
each other directly, but there'sa lot.
There's actually, if you unpackit, so many skills are actually
happening in there.
But like I'm thinkingfoundationally, just going back
it, so many skills are actuallyhappening in there.
But like I'm thinkingfoundationally just going back
(23:18):
to that, like parent affirmingtheir kid moment, like how
important that is, because we'retalking not again, not that
it's every parents coming inhere trying to either drive
their kid to into into a sportor away from a sport.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know from their own, you know from their own,
but it's just this idea of likelet it bring your kid as they
are and and giving them theopportunity to decide and and
have fun.
Well, that's I always say my,and this is how I came.
I shared my, my bio briefly,and, but it paints the picture
of how I got to a place.
If you had told me 15 years agothat I would be primarily
(23:48):
coaching toddlers on how tocatch and throw a ball.
I'd be like what happened inlife, but I genuinely.
This is where I've come to sayI found what I love to do and
what I love about it is I thinkmy favorite part of sports is it
is a low risk environment toteach kids social skills,
confidence, resilience, how tofail, and it's low risk but it's
(24:10):
not low pressure.
So sports I know this frombeing a kid can be the most
meaningful thing.
You think that you're doingLike when I played high school
and then college lacrosse, thatwas the most important thing in
the world to me.
Losing, being cut from a team,was just like devastating.
Winning was the highest ofhighs.
(24:31):
You have your lowest of lows,and so it's this environment
where you can learn thisresilience, and at a young I'm
talking when I was in highschool, college, at a young age
what you're learning is, yes,when you try something, and your
parent gives you a high five.
They're celebrating you fortrying that thing yeah and we're
going to keep doing it untilyou do it right.
I'm not saying just celebratethem doing it wrong.
(24:53):
Celebrate them for trying itand you keep doing it until they
get it right.
And when they get it right nowyou make a big deal out of it.
You celebrate them for that,and so they're learning the
power of pushing through,persevering, getting the job
done and on top of it, yeah,they're, they're gonna be.
One of my emails that I sent outwas like your kid is gonna run
into another kid and fall down.
(25:14):
Your kid is going to be holdinga ball and another kid's gonna
run up and rip it out of theirhands.
Like they're gonna build atower of cones and somebody else
is gonna knock it down.
And so we're learning boththings.
We're learning how to handlethat situation if it happens to
you.
We're learning the other kid ofhow to share and how to not rip
the ball out.
And all of that is happening.
Yeah, in this environment thatwouldn't happen if we didn't
(25:37):
have a little bit of chaos, likea little bit of just running
around and celebrating in thiskind of space.
And and because there there'sno, each game is also not a win
or lose game, it's not a.
If you lose, you get out gameRight which?
takes away a lot of great games.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Like when I work with older kids.
I know, I know there's greatgames there are.
There are.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I was working with a school and the kids were begging
me to play Foursquare, which Ithought was crazy, that they
even knew what F square was theywere begging me to play, so we
finally did it.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
It was an after-school program and I was
like I got.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
I was like fine, we'll do it, yeah.
And I said to the kids, like Iexplained to them, I was like
the reason we haven't done it isbecause, like, if you get out,
you're gonna sit there until youcan come back in and like I
think that's kind of boring, butif you're cool with it and so
we did it, and honestly, afterfive minutes, because they
gotten so used to the way wewere doing games they were like
this game is boring, so likeagain not saying there's not a
time and place for it.
(26:31):
Exactly, I just do think in thisenvironment, in this class,
it's just an environment forkids to just keep exploring.
Yeah and so, yes, I thinkyou're 100% right.
There's so much that comes fromthat.
Yeah and listen, if you wantyour kid to learn how to lose
and learn how to win, they willdo that Like this is not a
(26:52):
replacement for a soccer leagueor a tournament team.
It's not a replacement for it.
It's another component ofsports that I haven't been able
to find.
I was searching for a classlike this and I couldn't find it
, so I created it and that's allit is it's?
another kind of piece of thepuzzle.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Well, and my hat's off to you because, again, I've
only recently like met you andgotten to know you.
But, um, I tagged, I labeledyour classes as, like, the viral
classes, not because they maybe literally going like.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
TikTok viral.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
They've picked up so much steam.
And you just started in Januaryand by the time I heard about
you I was like, oh my, you know,I think it was like somewhere
in the spring I saw like some ofmy friends posting about you
and I was like that looks kindof neat.
But like again, in a quick flash, I was like those look like
younger kids.
I don't know, I didn't know, Iat the time didn't know if it
was for my age group.
But talk to me, we've talked,obviously, a little bit about
(27:45):
this, but like ways that, asparents, how do you think that
we can keep encouraging our kidswith sports, with activities,
with all the different thingsthat we do?
Obviously, this class is one ofthem, but, like you know, we
obviously cannot, you know,avoid the other types of coaches
and regimens that are out there, right?
(28:07):
I mean creating, you know,these kinds of programs are
awesome and seeking them outwhen possible is ideal, right?
How do we help encourage ourkids down this path of
activities while also avoidingburnout?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So there's a lot to it because parents mean well, I
think there's you know to saythat you shouldn't do this or
you shouldn't do that.
Parents, they want what's bestfor their kid.
What we do know is that I thinkthe number is correct 75% of
kids drop out of structuredsports by age 13.
Wow, 75%, and that's a risingnumber.
(28:41):
And so people are starting toask well, why is that?
There's what's called the TigerWoods effect.
So when we were young we'reabout the same age Tiger Woods
came on the scene and wassuccessful and winning.
And the story that was told isthat when he was really young,
like three years old, his dadhad him golfing constantly and
taught him how to golf, got himgolfing lessons and really was
(29:03):
on his case about it, and that'show he became Tiger Woods.
And that's true.
And so what happened was peoplestarted thinking well, if I do
that with my kid, they'll be thenext Tiger Woods.
And coaches started thinkingwell, geez, if I offer that
training for kids at a young ageand we train and we work hard,
like we can make them better.
And we now know, after 20 yearsof right of this effect, it's
(29:29):
just not true right.
There's so many factors that gointo whether someone likes golf,
that much yep uh is naturallygifted at golf is is actually
being taught the right things,whatever it really is.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Trainers, right coaches at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
I think we all can think in our own minds of
athletes that we knew as kidsthat were that peaked really
young.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
They were the best in high school and they didn't go
anywhere.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
And that's not bad, it's just whatever they didn't
go anywhere.
We know athletes that didn'treally shine until end of high
school or college, or nowadaysyou can go to a low D2, 3, d1
program and with the portal,whether you like it or not, like
(30:13):
you can transfer to a betterprogram.
And so the notion that you'reselling your kids short by not
getting them involved in anelite club program at a young
age is just false.
And I listen, I will.
If anyone's listening that is adirector of a club program that
disagrees with what I'm saying,call me, email me, let's have
coffee, I will.
If you're a parent and a clubdirector is telling you that
your kid's got potential, he's astud and he's a third grader,
uh, call me and I will.
I would love to sit down withthat director and be like look
(30:35):
me in the eye and tell me youthink that's what's best for
this kid, because I just don'tthink it is.
And I think cynically uh,because I've been a part of it
from the business side you cancan charge $2,000 a year, plus
travel expenses, plus equipment.
It's a heck of a business andI'm not here to say that those
folks are evil people.
I have a lot of friends who arein that side of the business,
(30:58):
and I think they've just gottencaught up in the materialistic
side of the game, the elitetournaments that parents are in
and listen if your kid loves it,then do it.
But the amount of times I hearparents say, oh my God, we've
got another tournament thisweekend.
It's like you're in charge.
This is your family, this isyour budget, this is your kid,
(31:19):
and don't let a club directorconvince you that you're making
the wrong decision.
When I was running a sleepawaycamp had parents would say my
kid loves we were a four-weekcamp, so you come to our camp
for four weeks.
Yeah, parents would come to usand they'd say, my kid loves
camp their third grade.
They want to come back nextsummer, but their baseball coach
.
(31:39):
this is a 100 true, specificexample their baseball coach
says they've got real potentialand so they should really be
playing baseball all summer andnot go to sleepaway camp.
What should we do?
And I said we'll talk to yourkid.
What does he want to do?
He wants to go to camp, so lethim go to camp I.
To me, it's as simple as thatright and, and I think, parents
think, well, should I be the onepushing them?
(32:00):
I have never seen and I'veworked with athletes on up to
team usa, with pro athletes,with the team building and
leadership company that I have.
I've worked with the strengthcoaches for Team USA lacrosse.
I've had them on my own podcastand I have never met anyone who
knows an athlete that got tothe top by being pushed by their
(32:23):
parents.
They all say the opposite.
That is huge.
You need athletes that areinternally driven, that want
this, that strive for it.
There's not an athlete outthere that was pushed there or
pushed there happily.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Maybe you can find an example, and I guarantee you
they're burned out and they'renot happy.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And so I ask, I tell parents, when you're signing up
for a program, talk to your kidwhat do you really want?
Maybe it sounds silly to ask athird grader, but do it.
What do you really want out ofthis?
Um and uh, talk to the coachesand the club directors and say
what is the experience gonna be?
What is my kid gonna belearning?
Because a lot of these programsyou're gonna be doing two
practices a week.
(32:59):
You're gonna be driving a lotin the car for those practices
and you're gonna be doing a lotof tournaments and even the top
coaches.
So lacrosse just happens to bemy sport, the top division one
coaches in lacrosse have gottentogether just this past season
to make a statement.
Uh, and tillman, the marylandcoach, was the head of this,
like he was the main guy thatspoke.
And maryland is like the goldstandard.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
You're a terp is it as much as I'm a syracuse fan,
as much as it pains me to admit?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
you guys are the gold standard of lacrosse in my
opinion right now.
And he was the one saying Idon't want single sport athletes
that have played tournamentsfor the last 10 years.
I want multi-sport athletesthat have been training and
working to get better and tryingnew things, and developing new
skills.
So it's out there.
It's just parents are listeningto the club director who wants
(33:45):
you to spend the money andlisten.
I might be sounding cynicalagainst these club directors.
Call me out Because I have notbeen able to flip.
Listen.
Wanting a career in youthsports, it would have been
easier for me to just be likeokay, I'll take one of these
club director jobs that's beenoffered to me, right?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
you already mentioned that, so I would love for that
to have been a better option.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I just don't see it as the right option for every
kid at a young age.
As you get older, when I wascoaching at st john's, if you
are 9th, 10th, 11th, your grade,and you have d1 coaches looking
at you, you have coaches likethat at a mi double a school in
this area telling you you'regood enough.
That's a different story.
You're older, it's a fardifferent picture right I'm
talking from, obviously, one tofive, but then you're looking at
(34:32):
like even elementary school,right?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
yes, well, and that kind of.
Basically you're.
You're already answering it,but, um, like, my next kind of
question is like, what do yousay to parents?
Well, what do you say toparents and what are your just
thoughts on this?
In general?
Of Obviously we're talkingabout club sports, but I'm also
thinking about otherorganizations, because I know
dance is a big one, gymnasticsis a big one, where they require
(34:58):
certain when you're on theirteams, their competition teams
and things like that, certainnumber of hours we're talking
like two to four hours a week,know, certain number of hours
we're talking like two to fourhours a week and um, and it no,
granted, the model with them is,you know, unlike, uh, other
sports where you might havegames every weekend, gymnastics
and dance it's not.
You don't have um recitalsevery weekend, but you will have
(35:18):
those bigger competitions orperformances and those will, you
know, eat up a large weekend,things like that, and the
frequency of those depends onthe, the company and things like
that.
But like, what are your thoughtson again, obviously our zero to
five year olds are not beingapproached, but like, a lot of
us parents you know, as we're,we are introducing our kids to
(35:40):
some activities, you know, fromthe first-ish time, and we are
being approached by whether it'sclub directors or it's, you
know, these other workers andthey're, and and I'll be honest
again, I have kids that areliterally in activities for the
first time and you know, um, andI'm seeing them, you know,
interact with these skills andand, and it's awesome to see.
You know, and I'm in no waypushing sports on them because I
(36:02):
wasn't, I wasn't exactly a highlevel athlete, so I'm like I'll
let them figure out what it isthat they want to do.
I wasn't exactly a high levelathlete, so I'm like I'm gonna
let them figure out what it isthat they want to do.
And I mean, in my son I see alot of natural talent and what
he's doing.
He's very gross motor focus, soI love watching that develop.
But you know, so when a coach ora teacher you know says, like
you know, hey, like he's, youknow, looking really good, I
(36:24):
really think you know if hewould be good enough to try out
for the team.
And then, like when you learnabout all those things in number
of hours, I'm like, I mean myfirst thought I'm like oh my god
, like I have two kids to go totwo different schools and I was
like, just doing one, one classI'm talking about over the
course of my two kids, let alonegetting them in two different
separate activities, is alreadya lot on my way.
(36:45):
I mean, god bless all theparents.
I mean obviously people do it,but just the idea of committing,
like my first grader to two, uh, two to four hours a week, like
I mean obviously thatoverwhelms me and initially,
like you know it's, it's as aparent.
Yes, it does kind of feel likeoh wow, they really do have
skill, like that's cool, youknow, and and I, admittedly I
(37:06):
feel like you can kind of I cansee how you can kind of start,
as a parent, start to lean intothat.
But anyways, my question to youis like what are your, what do
you say to parents that are areexperiencing some of that, and
what are your thoughts with Iguess, mainly, maybe, maybe
we're talking about that thiselementary, the k through five
and even middle school age groupcommitting that number of hours
(37:28):
to a sport weekly Gymnastics isan interesting example because
it's a very young sport.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
So I worked with college gymnastic D1 college
gymnastics programs.
I do team training.
So when I do a team training itis 8 am to 8 pm in a classroom
setting where we are.
The goal is.
I use public speaking as a wayto get you out of your shell.
I don't care if you're a betterpublic speaker, but you're
going to get up.
(37:55):
You're going to give a speechto your entire team.
The first one you give isyou're introducing your partner.
So you and I are partners.
Can you get up this is Claireand really like have enthusiasm
of energy, which isuncomfortable for some people.
Yeah, people break down intothree categories.
Number one they're like I'mready to do this, this sounds
fun.
Number two they're like I don'tknow, like are you doing it?
Am I doing it?
Like it's a group decision.
And the third type of person islike I don't like this yeah and
(38:17):
I say like I don't.
I'm not trying to say you haveto be extroverted to be a leader
.
I am saying to be comfortable,to be yourself, to be confident,
step into power.
And so the goal by the end ofthe day is that these athletes
get up and they give like arah-rah, pump up speech to their
team.
Their team is supporting them.
So I do these types of programswith athletes.
I've worked with soccerprograms, lacrosse, gymnastics,
(38:39):
basketball, and gymnasticsalways stands out to me because
a big part of what I preach isprogress, not perfection.
And gymnastics was the firstgroup of athletes to challenge
me and say we have to be perfect, that is our sport.
We have to be perfect.
That is the whole.
That's how we are judged in oursport and that's how we win in
(39:00):
our sport, and then the otherthing they taught me was you
know, when I work with a collegebasketball team, they might
have the I've worked with top 25programs Like they might have
the potential to win it all andthey might then go.
I worked with guys who are inthe pros working with college
gymnasts.
They might be past their primeLike you, like they're, you've,
(39:22):
you've passed If you're 18, 19,20, 21 years old, you've passed
the age of of being in theOlympicsics, if that's the goal,
right?
So I say that to say I don'thave all the answers.
Like I don't know like anddominique dodds would probably
be a much better answer for itbecause I trust, I trust that
organization, I trust her.
No, exactly and so I think.
But the answer I will give isum, I, I also think, parents, we
(39:47):
don't.
We don't want to feel like so,so like, if we're busy and we're
traveling, we got three kids,but then you have that guilt of
like, well, I don't want to,like, make a decision that my
kid's not going to be in thiselite program because it's a
burden on me.
I want to give everything I canto my kid.
That implies that the goal isthat they go pro, or the goal is
that they play at a high levelin college, and that might not
(40:07):
be the goal.
Again, I have worked withhigh-level D1 athletes.
I've worked with pros and theyare the first to tell you that
this isn't necessarily worth it.
The first episode on my podcastis with a former.
Harry Swain played for theBaltimore Ravens.
He won four Super Bowls becausehe won, I think, one as a
player and then three as a coachat different organizations.
(40:29):
And he says on the podcast hedoesn't really like football
that much, like it's not hisfavorite sport.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
He actually, he just was.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
He's like six foot four.
He was always really strong.
He's naturally great at it, andso he ended up playing for 20
years in the NFL.
He likes football, but it's nothis favorite sport.
It's not his favorite thing todo.
And so this notion that thegoal is to play at this level or
(40:59):
the goal is to play at a highlevel in college, I don't know,
I just don't think that shouldalways be the goal and I don't
think that there's an athleteout there that's missing that
opportunity because theirparents didn't push them into
the right thing at a young,young, young age.
But listen to your kid, payattention to your kid, make a
decision as a family, like, ifyou're listening to this and
(41:19):
you're like my kid doescompetitive gymnastics and they
love it and we love it and weall love watching it and it's a
lot of fun, then do it.
I'm not telling you that it'sinherently bad.
I think too many parents justassume it's inherently good when
it's a family decision of.
What do we really want out ofthis experience and what do we
want to do?
Speaker 1 (41:38):
And I think you said that perfectly about a family
decision, right?
Like you know the parent beingapproached about, you know the
club sport or committing todance or gymnastics, something
like that.
You know it's easy for theparent to be like, oh well, I
want to give everything to mykid, but what does your kid want
in that situation?
You know, like, yes, like whatif you made that decision, but
(42:00):
are you making the decision forthem?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Right.
You know, like when I was young, listen I did play for a club
program.
Like when I was young, listen,I did play for a club program.
And back when we were youngerso I grew up in Syracuse there
were two elite club teams that Iknew of and you had to try out.
And because there was only twofor the entire Syracuse area,
which is a big lacrosse area, Imade the team and my parents
then were like, do you want todo this?
(42:22):
And I was like I do.
You could not have convinced menot to do it.
I did it.
We played a lot.
I ended up I stopped playingbasketball and soccer, and this
was in ninth grade, so by thetime I was in high school.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I was 12.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
And I loved it.
I have no regrets.
My brother's, 10 years youngerthan me.
By the time he came around,there were 25 teams in Syracuse
all calling themselves eliteclub teams and starting at third
grade and convincing parentsthat kids need to drop these
other sports that I cannot wrapmy head around and that's really
(42:54):
the overarching opinion that Ihave right is that you know,
let's say, gymnastics says yourkids got real talent and they
should really focus on this.
I don't see how that shouldrequire them to drop other
sports and drop other activitiesright um, it just doesn't make
any sense yeah, and there's noresearch behind that, and so
that's the biggest thing is ifthis becomes a job, which is the
(43:18):
other thing I'll say.
I know I'm jumping around, so Ihave a lot of experiences that
were like that, built to whatI'm doing now.
I was working with a volleyballprogram that at the time was
ranked 20th in the country andthey finished the season, I
think, in the sweet 16 reallygood athletes.
A number of them went overseasto play pro volleyball and when
(43:39):
I was doing our training I couldjust I just got this vibe that
they weren't having fun and evenin my team training like oh,
this is fun, this is teambuilding.
This is core, and so I said thatto them.
I was like are you guys havingfun?
And they looked at me like itwas a trick question.
I was like it's not a trap?
I'm curious.
We could totally change whatwe're doing here.
Let's go outside.
I just don't feel like.
(44:09):
And they stared at me like Iwas an idiot and the one that
spoke up and they go no, Ihaven't had fun playing
volleyball in a long time.
They go.
I look at volleyball.
I look at playing at thisschool.
It was a it was a power fiveschool.
They go.
I look at playing at thisschool as a dream job.
I finally got my dream job.
I love it.
Anytime I step on the court, Ilook around, I look at the logo.
I can't believe I'm here.
And it's still a job.
It's still something that Ifeel like I have to do and I
(44:33):
have to go to practice.
But you give me a day off, oh,that's.
That's the best and I just forme.
I think we're losing a lotright Even at that level, if, if
, kids, young adults, are justnot having fun with this anymore
because, at some level.
What's the point if we're nothaving fun with it?
I?
Speaker 1 (44:53):
know well and I think , like, as we wrap up here today
, I think the biggest take homemessage is like in no way are we
and are you dissuading parentsaway from sports and activities.
That's absolutely not themessage we're actually
encouraging.
You know well, actually,multi-sport engagement.
But you won't be able to engagein multi-sport if, say, you've
(45:14):
committed to a program thatrequires you to be.
You know two practices, twogames.
You know what I mean multiplehours a week, because how are
you going?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
to fit in anything else, right?
I don't think I'm not here tohere to you know, let me put it
this way my goal is that kidsfrom 1 to 18 years old are
playing multiple sports because,a I think that's fun.
B I think that's what kids wantto do.
C they want to play with theirfriends, they want to experience
(45:43):
things and and the final pointis, like I said, look, look up
the NCAA lacrosse coaches.
They have a whole video on aspeople recruiting the best
lacrosse players in the country.
They want multi-sport athletes.
Usa Hockey has done this.
I worked with USA Lacrosse onbuilding out their athlete
development program, where theirgoal is to say they want to
(46:05):
grow the game.
The game is going to be in theOlympics in LA, and so the goal
of USA lacrosse for the pastdecade has been how do we get
more people playing our sport?
Yeah, and so you would thinkit's counterintuitive to say
play a lot of sports, but theydon't want just more
participants, they want a bettergame, they want better athletes
.
And what the research tellsthem, tells us, and that what we
would preach is multi-sportkids doing different things when
(46:27):
you're learning how to playdefense in basketball, even
though that might not be yournumber one sport.
you're learning how to playdefense in lacrosse or in soccer
.
When you're learning how to runaround in football, you're
learning how to dodge.
If you're learning how to skatein hockey, holy moly.
You're learning a lot of skillsthat go into that, and you're
also playing sports that youmight not be the best at.
(46:47):
Let's say, your kid is theabsolute best baseball player.
Get them involved in footballor soccer, where they're not the
best, and so they can learnwhat it's like to be led,
because you're not a captain onthat team.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
They can learn what it's like to fail.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
They can have empathy for their fellow teammates and
they can start to learn thatthey have some natural ability.
Because it's easy to assume ifI train four days a week and I'm
really focused, like okay, theneverybody can do this, and then
you do the same thing foranother sport and you have a
different result and it's likeokay.
So there's some other thingsthat play into this and so I
just cannot, you know, preachenough the value of multi-sport
(47:20):
obviously I'm doing it with thelittlest kids, right, and I
think, I think it's obvious whywe want those littlest kids
doing that.
And it goes on up to the highestlevel, and I'm not the only one
saying it.
Go ahead, google long-termathletic development Google.
Lebron James just went viralfor talking about how he never
had a trainer until he was inthe pros.
(47:41):
Luka Doncic was interviewed onSteve Nash's podcast because he
has a foundation whose goal isto create more multi-sport
experiences for kids, because hegrew up in a in a poorer
country that didn't have theseopportunities, and he his study
shows there's a higherpercentage of pros coming from
those environments than fromAmerica, where we have a system
(48:03):
that is having kids in theseclub programs, these trainings.
If anything, what we're seeingis 75 percent of kids dropping
out of sports by 13.
Whereas in the rest of Europe.
They're seeing kids that arethriving and playing sports for
life, Because that's the otherthing.
To end it on it's not about, inmy opinion being pro.
It's about a lifelong love ofphysical activity and sports.
It's about someone that it'sjust who you are.
(48:25):
You don't ever go through a spanof life where you're not
working out, you're not playingtennis or pickleball or golf or
whatever.
Just you love sports, you lovephysical activity.
It's a part of who you are andhow you show up, and that's when
you instill it in a kid at ayoung age.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
That just becomes how they live their life, which is
ultimately socially, emotionally, physically a better way to
live.
Yeah, I love that and, oh mygosh, my head is spinning
because I feel like we couldprobably have about eight more
podcasts.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I wrapped up by giving you like we'll leave it
there.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
We'll probably have to have you back on, because
that is, that is awesome.
Well, thank you so much for allthese nuggets today, bobby.
And again this is a plug, ifyou have, and I know a bunch of
your summer classes are almostlike 90% full, but be sure to
check his website for someopenings.
I think you might have someSaturday availabilities.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
I was going to say the enrollments are full even
Saturday.
Now, oh, there it is, and youcan always do.
I reserve seats for free demodays.
So if you go on my website,there's a link that says free
demo day.
You can sign up for any classfor that.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
And then there's also drop-in days, where you can
sign up for multiple drop-indays.
Um, you could sign up for ninedrop-in days.
At this point it would be, youknow whatever six, whatever's
left, right, um.
So you still can sign up forclass using the demo day or the
drop-in day perfect and um, andthen I know, eventually you'll
be rolling out your fall classes, so those will be coming soon.
So if you didn't make it in thesummer.
If your summer's too busy, beon the lookout for that too.
But other than that, thank youso much again.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of MomTalk
Maryland.
If you loved it, leave a review, share it with a friend or tag
me at thecolumbiamom onInstagram.
I'd love to hear what you thinkand don't forget to follow the
show so you never miss anepisode.
Until next time, keep showingup, keep supporting local and
keep being the incredible mom,woman, human that you are.
Hey friends and welcome to MomTalk Maryland.
I'm your host, claire Duarte,founder of the Columbia Mom, and
this is your spot for realconversations, local love and a
whole lot of community.
Whether you're folding laundry,running errands or hiding in
your car for some peace andquiet, let's dive in, alright?
Well, thanks so much forjoining me today.
(00:20):
I am coming to you from theMaryland Innovation Center once
again, and today I have with uscoach Bobby, who I've shared a
little bit on our Instagramtalking about his awesome
classes, and today I kind ofwanted to get to know, obviously
, well, obviously I've gotten toknow you, but share more about
(00:42):
your background, why multi-sportand we we're going to kind of
deep dive into that a little bitmore today.
So, anyways, without furtherado, here's Coach Bobby.
Hi how are you Thanks for havingme?
This is awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I know I was proud of you on the podcast because I
love an opportunity to justreally talk about all this stuff
and why it matters.
I think it can seem very simpleon the outside we offer sports
for kids but there is a deepermeaning as to why we do it.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, absolutely so.
For anyone that's maybe new orhasn't heard about you, can you
give me, give us, a little bitof a background on you and tell
us about your business?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Sure, so I've been.
It's odd to say I've been ayouth coach for over 15 years,
because it's definitely not.
It has not been a full-timecareer for that entire time.
When I first graduated college,I actually started a business
doing leadership and teambuilding.
So I was working with sportsteams, high school, middle
school kids, as well as collegeteams.
That evolved into working withsome professional groups and
(01:39):
doing some corporate trainingtype stuff, and then on the side
I was always coaching.
I thought I wanted to be acollege coach.
At one point I was a lacrosseplayer.
I coached junior college atHartford Community College for
one season and I loved coaching.
I did not like recruiting.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I found that just boring and not what I wanted to
do.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
And so I stopped doing that and was kind of
looking for what I reallyenjoyed.
And what I found I reallyenjoyed was youth coaching.
I coached third grade lacrosse.
I ended up I coached highschool at St John's College.
High school was my most recentstint and, again, none of those
were ever full-time gigs in thatspace and I did look into
(02:19):
different club programs to be acoach or a director at and we
can get into the podcast whythat wasn't the route for me,
found myself actually throughthat conversation of wanting
something that was moremulti-sport, more focused on fun
, more focused on development.
Found myself as a co-director ofa sleepaway camp in the.
(02:39):
Catskills of New York, whichwas amazing it was a lot of fun,
my entire family.
We went up there from MemorialDay to Labor Day every year.
It involved.
We hosted weddings, we hostedsports camps, we hosted retreats
, so it was a great experience,but this is ultimately, you know
, coming spending the summerhere this summer for the first
time since being a kid, andstarting Coach Bobby is an
(03:03):
outgrowth of that.
It's saying this is what Ireally want to do and bring to
the world of sports.
And, and it being the businessis saying how can this be what I
do full-time, instead of just,you know, coaching my kids at
nights and on weekends?
Not that that's right.
I have a two-year-old and athree-month-old, so they're not.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
They're not into it yet.
But yeah, not that I don't wantto coach them.
She likes the classes.
Yeah, but I don't want to coachthem.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
She likes the classes , but I don't have to.
You know, maybe someday I'llcoach their teams.
But being able to bring this tothe community is what I've
ultimately wanted to do for awhile now.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, so tell me a little bit more about your.
Have a ball classes.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So have a ball is when you come in.
I think the key factor is whenyou get to the gym.
Everything's already set up.
So, as some of your videosshowed, we have basketball,
which is age appropriate,because these particular classes
right now are for ages one tofive years old, which seems like
a wide range.
The concept is you can bringyour whole what I call stay at
home family.
So it started with differentage brackets of two year old,
(04:00):
three year old, four year old,five year old class, and then I
would have parents reach out andsay you know, I've got a two
year old and a five year old athome.
Can I bring them both to thesame class?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
And I'm very much like let's try it and see what
happens.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So the first.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I was.
I was very honest.
I was like how about you bringthem?
We'll see what happens.
If it's not good, we won't doit, and so there's a lot of free
play where the kids come in.
There's basketball, hockey,soccer, lacrosse, baseball, all
this stuff and it's all softequipment so kids can use it on
their own.
They're not going to get hurtand the first 10, 15 minutes is
(04:36):
just free play, letting thesekids explore and try things out.
I then bring the group in tothe center, where I have.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Home Depot buckets you can get wraps.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I'll eventually brand them, but I've been using.
I don't know they might becomepart of your brand.
It's kind of a thing.
Now I actually have had parentssend me videos of their kids
using Home Depot buckets at home, but that started, I don't know
again, coaching sport For me Iactually started doing that at
sleepaway camp is we had thesebuckets and I was seeking ways
to not put kids in lines.
(05:04):
I don't want kids in linewaiting to hit a baseball, then
80% of your class is waiting inline.
I can remember as a kid waitingin line.
You get up there and even ifyou don't hit it, you've got to
go back to the back of the lineand wait again.
And so that's where the bucketscame from was how can I create
(05:26):
environments where the kids arenot in lines and they're
constantly doing the thing thatwe're trying to learn, whether
it's catching, throwing, hitting, and so everything's the bucket
based circle time.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So we'll do that for about three minutes.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's very fast and then you're back to free play
for another three minutes.
Then you're back to the bucketsfor three minutes and then it's
a nine week class.
By the end of the nine weeks wewill have done skill based
instruction with each sport.
So, we start with catching andthrowing, then we move on to
jumping, catching and throwing,then we move on to using the
hockey sticks, then we move onto the lacrosse sticks you name
it, and it's just testing andtrying out each of these
(05:54):
different things by the end ofthe nine weeks.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, and now that I've officially gone to two
classes and I think it's reallycool hearing you kind of break
it down, because you're not justlike a pre-K director or
manager overseeing the chaos,like there is a method to the
madness.
There's almost like acurriculum, if you may.
Like you said, you're movingthem through multiple different
(06:18):
sports, multiple differentskills and there's
intentionality with eachstructure.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, and the foundational principle for me is
the and I didn't make this up,it's from long-term athlete
development.
They say no lines, no laps, nolectures, no laps, no lectures.
Hopefully it's not relevant forthis age group there are some
coaches that might do it but nolines for me.
Because even when I wascoaching middle school lacrosse,
I was really committed to nolines and the varsity coach
(06:45):
would come to my practice everynow and again and was like have
you never heard of line drills?
Have you never heard of like?
He was just so thrilled by thisidea and I was very committed
to.
This is how I want to do it,because I also experienced it.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
You know when I was coaching at St John's they
didn't do lines.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
That is a 60 minute practice of these players just
running the entire time, and sothere's no conditioning that
they're doing.
And when I was there I say itbecause it's relevant we were
the number one team in thecountry, like we won the
national championship.
When we were there, I was anassistant coach.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I'm not because of bobby.
Let's make sure that that is onit's relevant.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's relevant because , uh, then it obviously it works
and obviously it's okay forthem.
And so why is it not okay forour four or five and six year
olds to say we don't need to beconditioning, we just need to
constantly be running for theentire 4560 minutes that?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
we're right, that's huge.
And I mean I remember yousharing with me a little bit
about your St John's bit, but Ididn't think, and even even
winning, but I didn't realizethe intricacies of, like you
said, there wasn't any realconditioning.
But I mean that's kind of thepower of it and I think again, I
am not a PT, I'm not an OT oryou know a child psychologist to
(07:57):
understand all this.
But I was like I feel like itjust makes so much sense,
especially for this age group,makes so much sense, especially
for this age group.
But obviously we're arguing,even for the high schoolers too,
that just this methodologybehind I need better words for
this but kind of like they're,kind of they're keeping or just
the principle you said, no lines, no laps no lectures.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
There we go, I'm going to learn it.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
You know so, because I think especially for those
younger kids.
I mean, I have a now.
He just turned five a five yearold and a six year old, and
like a six year old came toclass.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Right, she did come to class, yeah, and for the
record.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I was like, and I, when I was you know, because I
was filming last week and Ipurposely didn't put her in the
video because I was like, well,these classes, and first of all,
she's so tall, like she'snotably taller than most
five-year-olds, so, um, becauseshe's almost seven, but um and I
, when she got there, she waslike, oh, I don't want to do
because she saw a lot of littlekids, and then we started she,
(08:54):
um, she loved it and she didn'tstop.
And then at one point I lookedover some of your activities,
like she had her, she dominatedhungry.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
She dominated Hungry Hungry Hippos.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I was like oh bro let's maybe slow it down.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
She had so much fun saving.
They didn't know it.
That was great.
No, but I was like, oh, butthat's one of my favorites, I
actually there was this pastweekend a family.
So the way I do the because Iwant it to be a family class and
my website doesn't allow me toregister someone who signs a
waiver for free this waiver forfree this is the stuff behind
(09:26):
the stuff, right?
So I made it one dollar that'sthe.
It's a one dollar rate for asibling.
So if you sign up your firstkid, so you sign up for
two-year-old and you have a fourand a five-year-old, you can
sign them up for one dollar.
And so it's took and honestly,that came from I.
We have a two and a half yearold and we now have a three
month old, and when the thesecond one was born, I looked at
my wife and I was like so wait,all of our expenses just double
.
Like are we just paying foreverything?
(09:48):
And I get it Like from abusiness perspective, like a
seat is a seat, but in thisparticular class.
For me a bucket is a bucketYou're with your kids on a
bucket and I recognized, like itdoesn't take any more work for
me.
The gym is big enough that wecan do a family class and just
the reality of it is most like Ithink I cap the classes at 12
(10:09):
participants and most my classeshave nine or ten unique
families, so not everybody'sbringing those siblings.
So, anyways, this family comesthis past weekend and they have
their daughter with them who'snot registered, and the mom says
like she's just here to observe.
She didn't want to sign up forclass and we didn't want to
pressure into it literallywithin five minutes, the mom is
running out grabbing a bucketand she goes I'll give you a
dollar.
(10:29):
And she sits down because thedaughter wanted to play.
Yeah, and, and I think that'sfor me a, I love seeing it.
B, that's kind of like the, theproof in the concept, which is
kids do just want to play.
Their aspenpen Institute, basedout of DC, has done a lot of
research on long-term athletedevelopment.
Their studies say the top tworeasons kids participate in
(10:51):
sports is they want to have funand they want to play with their
friends.
And that's it, and so that'sthe goal.
How do we create an environmentwhere they have fun and play
with their friends?
Not an environment where I'mnot anti-tryouts at a certain
age, but if you're doing tryoutsat third grade, fourth grade,
like even younger than that,right now you're taking them.
(11:11):
Even if they make the eliteteam, they're not playing with
their friends and are theyhaving fun?
Right, the goal is making thiselite team or playing in this
environment.
So maybe it is not saying it notalways is based on your kid
based on the situation, yeah,but top two reasons fun and play
with your friends, and so howwe create more of those
environments I love that and Ithink that's so important.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
And I think one thing that, like I went as I was
getting to know you and yourbusiness and um, that uh that we
clicked on like from the jumpto, is you know, um, what's the
kind of philosophy?
I mean, it's basicallyeverything that you embody and
build the business around.
But I kind of think of um otherinstitutions, like dominique
dawes gym and because they'revery similar in their um
(11:51):
philosophy too, of, you know,essentially just supporting kids
, um, you know, to have funwhile getting skill building,
because I I think we're tryingto break free of the um trophy
for every.
I mean there obviously is plentyof value, but I think the
negative optics with that isthat, like you know, are they
(12:12):
actually learning?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Are they?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
getting you know constructive skill building with
that and I think this is againfull proof of that.
You know, I see it at placeslike Dominique Dawes and I see
it with what you're doing hereand that's, frankly, just so
exciting.
And I think, as a parent who,again, I was not a college-level
athlete but I did do rec soccerand my high school soccer team
(12:39):
was very rigorous I had verymuch no line drills in summer
soccer camp and the intensitywith a lot of that Again, not
that there's, you know,necessarily problems with all of
that there's a great skillbuilding that I learned from a
lot of that.
But I think, you know, havingthis philosophy and introducing
this to our kids at this age isjust, it's not only just
(13:00):
refreshing but it's just I feellike it's so needed and so
appropriate for this age groupyou know, all right, refreshing,
but it's just I feel like it'sso needed and so appropriate for
this age group.
You know, um, all right and um,I think this is kind of neat.
So you just basically said thisabout kids play sports for two
for the two reasons, so kind ofon that same breath, like
(13:20):
letting kids be kids and, youknow, finding balance between
structure and free play in youthsports, which is essentially
kind of what you've beenmodeling all of this.
So why do you think free playis so undervalued in modern
youth programs?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It's a great question because it seems to me very
obvious that there's great valuein free play and I think a lot
of coaches would agree with thattoo.
I have my opinion and that's it.
I think the only thing I canthink of is when you are putting
on a program and you're askingparents to spend money and
(13:58):
you're asking parents to driveand spend time, like you know
the weight of that At some level.
As coaches, as directors ofthese programs, we almost
sometimes feel that we have tobe doing something all the time.
We have to be creating thesedrills, these games, these
environments.
I felt that way when I firststarted class and I remember my
first couple of classes, thatyou know there'd be parents that
(14:21):
we would do three minutes of askill and then I would start to
get into another skill and youwould see the kids starting to
wander off and the parents aredragging them back and listen at
some level.
It's important that kids learn,you know, to sit and listen and
do whatever Right At a certainage.
I also think there should be agreat environment that just lets
them go play, and so that'swhere it came from.
(14:41):
For me is I don't.
I also didn't.
As a parent, I've been todifferent classes where I'm
doing this to bond with my kidand I find myself ragging on my
kid the entire time of rightmakes you participate makes you
come back, makes you do thiswhen I start my classes.
I say, listen, uh, you know, ifyou, if we ask your kid to come
back to the center and theydon't come back at this class,
(15:02):
I'm okay with that right uh, andI'm not always okay with that.
I'm not taking a stance as aparent that we should just never
tell our kids what to do inthis class.
Let your kid come when theywant.
And there was a great I I'llhave to look up the podcast for
you.
There was a podcast of apsychologist who was saying that
over a lot of schools usecircle time right, uh, and it's
over time the kids will want toback and I've seen that over the
(15:25):
course of the night weeks.
There was one kid who just wouldnot come to circle time and I
was like, just like, let's lethim do his thing.
By week three he was comingover, he was participating, he
was engaging, and so that doeshappen, even when free play is
possible.
The second part of yourquestion is you know just why
free play?
And again just going back tolong-term athlete development
research, anyone who's listeningcan just google ltad and the
(15:46):
value of free play and there is.
I'm not a ptot phys ed majorresearcher either.
I'm a coach who just wasstarting to see um a lack of
creativity in sports, a lack ofjoy in sports, and and so just
giving them that opportunity tofree play is really powerful
right the other irony of it is,when I started these classes, my
(16:07):
dad uh laughed and said I don'tget it, why not just do this in
the backyard or in the driveway?
And and the truth is it's justnot happening anymore yeah so
absolutely like right.
If, if, if you can create anenvironment in your neighborhood
or your community where kidsare coming together to play and
pick up basketball, then that'sreally powerful.
(16:28):
Let them do that and just play.
If that's not happening, thenthis is an opportunity to come
and, yes, we are having someskill building in it, but it's
also an opportunity for them tojust run around and explore
Right.
The other side of free play ata young age is kids discover
things they wouldn't otherwise.
Yeah, dad was a baseball guy.
He knew nothing about lacrosse.
I found lacrosse, ended uploving lacrosse and I coach it,
(16:50):
I watch it.
It's my sport to this day and Ihave kids already in class who
I get texts all the time fromparents.
They're like our family knowsnothing about soccer.
We've never played soccer andour kid asked for a soccer ball,
wants a soccer goal, isobsessed with it because they
learned it in your class yeah Ialso get.
I get this a lot too, being inmaryland yeah families that are
like we're from florida orpennsylvania or wherever and we
(17:14):
were trying to keep our kid awayfrom lacrosse for whatever
reason and they're like, and nowour kid loves lacrosse because
they found it at your, yourclass.
But it's a great sport, right?
so that's the other thing too isyou let your kid figure out
what they want to do instead ofyou, and it doesn't come from a
bad place.
We just introduce our kids towhat we like and what we enjoy,
instead of giving them anenvironment or opportunity to
(17:35):
find it themselves.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, and I think that so beautifully.
Kind of pairs again going allthe way back to your core values
and what you're trying to drivewith these kids.
And oh my gosh, my next pointwas escaping me.
Um, oh well, here's what I'llmention too.
Um, kind of picking back off.
You're talking about, like youknow, kids playing like out in
the streets again you know, I'ma 90s baby, so like again,
(17:59):
that's how I grew up and how Iwas raised.
But I also was kind of thinkingabout the structure of my
neighborhood.
It was a brand new neighborhoodwhen my parents like bought in,
so they were all young families, all little kids.
Now where I live in columbia,like I'm one of the only houses
with kids on my entire streetand now I know that's not all
columbia, there's plenty of,like you know, people's
neighborhoods that are litteredwith kids.
So for that aspect, like we justliterally like my kids don't
(18:20):
even have the option to go out,and like we can tell them to go
out and play, but it's like theydon't have anybody to play with
, you know.
So there's that aspect of youknow, depending on where you
live, your neighborhoodsituation.
But two, I think what's alsoreally appealing, coming from
the mom perspective, like myperspective, like you know, I
mean, I've shared this to you athousand times and as like,
specifically, like I myself amobviously a COVID mom.
(18:43):
So, like you know, I didn't havethe opportunity to take my
young kids out to do anyactivities like this during that
time frame, um so like hurts myheart a little bit, but I'm
like I know I'm definitely draggrant in one of these days he
will literally go nuts, um, butuh, you know, I think for moms
too, I think it's a really coolit's, it's.
(19:04):
I don't think in any way this islabeled or branded as a as a
mommy me class, because it's afamily class and it really is.
I mean, obviously it's themajority of women that you know
are bringing their kids in, butit's such a cool, different type
of mommy and me class if it's,you know, in that genre a little
bit.
Because, you're getting to dosomething else that's not just
like circle time or library orreading books, like your kids
(19:26):
are active and just like yousaid.
Like I mean, when I first heardthe range of like zero to five,
I was like that feels reallybroad.
I was like how are you going tocapture all those kids?
And like literally like my onlyway to like describe is like you
need to see it, sort of inaction you know what I mean and
like see, like how each kid cankind of like do their own thing
and you know the parents arethere.
(19:46):
So you, everyone gets to bephysical and everyone gets to be
active and I think that's sohealthy, obviously from the
physical standpoint.
But I also like think about,like you know, I feel like I've
been spending so much time doinglike all these deep dives with
my own son and his growth anddevelopment, um, cause there's a
whole host of things that we'redoing with him, um, and I just
think about, you know, know,kids brain development,
(20:07):
especially at that age, howimportant that is for like
essentially constant sensoryinput.
You know what I mean, a lot ofthis is obviously gross motor,
but it's all still theintegration of fine motor skills
too, which again I think ishuge for this age group and
you're right about the.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I never like it branded it as a mommy and me or
parent me, class and 100.
I mean that's especially atthis age.
It's necessary.
When you read the website Imake very clear like, yeah, when
you come and I set up anactivity which is playing catch
like you are playing catch withyour kid, it's not drop off the
kid.
Yes, exactly and and the truthis there's research behind that
about this age kids.
(20:44):
While I can come over and givethem a high five after they do a
good job, they much more valuethe high five from their mom or
their dad or their grandparentor whoever's bringing them.
This is that environment to dothat, and my goal is to that you
can take these activities homewith you.
One of the you know my favoriteactivities is teaching a kid
how to catch because I didn'tknow how to do that.
(21:05):
Like when my daughter was born Iwas tossing her a ball and she
puts her hands kind of flat outand down and it just hits off
her chest.
And so I Googled how do youteach a kid how to catch a ball?
And I found it was this oldvideo Like it had to be like a
grainy video that was up yearsago but it still works and
that's where the basket camefrom.
As you create a basket, youtoss the ball through the basket
(21:31):
and then you tell them now hugit so that it doesn't fall
through the basket, and they'reinherently learning to keep it
up like this or kids will snatchat it, which they can't do, and
so parents can take that homeand do that at home.
It's a simple.
It's teaching you how to playwith your kids in the backyard.
Which so much of sports we do.
What was done to us, and nodifferent than when a parent
decides to volunteer to coachtheir kid and they don't know
(21:53):
what to do.
This isn't their full-time job,and so you just coach the way
you were coached.
And just because the way youwere coached doesn't mean it was
the right way.
It doesn't mean it was thewrong way, but there's a lot of
value and there's so muchinformation out there now and
it's so easy to find it insaying well, what is the right
way and how can we do iteffectively?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So that's the other thing I love people to take away
is, yes, it's once a week fornine weeks, right, and you can
take these games home and dothem at home too, because you
are there learning with yourkids Literally Right, and you
know you mentioned the partabout parents doing the
activities with their kidsduring the class and they're
(22:31):
validating their kids and Iactually think that is something
that's really awesome andunique, While obviously getting
external trust and relationshipbuilding with other adults in
their life at this age isobviously really helpful if
they're in an environment wherethey're trying something new
that they might not have skillsin, or they're learning that
they might have potential skillsor talents in for them to get
(22:53):
affirmations, you know,positively in a good environment
.
So you know, and they're alsogetting social skills, even
though they're not, maybe notnecessarily interacting with
each other directly, but there'sa lot.
There's actually, if you unpackit, so many skills are actually
happening in there.
But like I'm thinkingfoundationally, just going back
it, so many skills are actuallyhappening in there.
But like I'm thinkingfoundationally just going back
(23:18):
to that, like parent affirmingtheir kid moment, like how
important that is, because we'retalking not again, not that
it's every parents coming inhere trying to either drive
their kid to into into a sportor away from a sport.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know from their own, you know from their own,
but it's just this idea of likelet it bring your kid as they
are and and giving them theopportunity to decide and and
have fun.
Well, that's I always say my,and this is how I came.
I shared my, my bio briefly,and, but it paints the picture
of how I got to a place.
If you had told me 15 years agothat I would be primarily
(23:48):
coaching toddlers on how tocatch and throw a ball.
I'd be like what happened inlife, but I genuinely.
This is where I've come to sayI found what I love to do and
what I love about it is I thinkmy favorite part of sports is it
is a low risk environment toteach kids social skills,
confidence, resilience, how tofail, and it's low risk but it's
(24:10):
not low pressure.
So sports I know this frombeing a kid can be the most
meaningful thing.
You think that you're doingLike when I played high school
and then college lacrosse, thatwas the most important thing in
the world to me.
Losing, being cut from a team,was just like devastating.
Winning was the highest ofhighs.
(24:31):
You have your lowest of lows,and so it's this environment
where you can learn thisresilience, and at a young I'm
talking when I was in highschool, college, at a young age
what you're learning is, yes,when you try something, and your
parent gives you a high five.
They're celebrating you fortrying that thing yeah and we're
going to keep doing it untilyou do it right.
I'm not saying just celebratethem doing it wrong.
(24:53):
Celebrate them for trying itand you keep doing it until they
get it right.
And when they get it right nowyou make a big deal out of it.
You celebrate them for that,and so they're learning the
power of pushing through,persevering, getting the job
done and on top of it, yeah,they're, they're gonna be.
One of my emails that I sent outwas like your kid is gonna run
into another kid and fall down.
(25:14):
Your kid is going to be holdinga ball and another kid's gonna
run up and rip it out of theirhands.
Like they're gonna build atower of cones and somebody else
is gonna knock it down.
And so we're learning boththings.
We're learning how to handlethat situation if it happens to
you.
We're learning the other kid ofhow to share and how to not rip
the ball out.
And all of that is happening.
Yeah, in this environment thatwouldn't happen if we didn't
(25:37):
have a little bit of chaos, likea little bit of just running
around and celebrating in thiskind of space.
And and because there there'sno, each game is also not a win
or lose game, it's not a.
If you lose, you get out gameRight which?
takes away a lot of great games.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Like when I work with older kids.
I know, I know there's greatgames there are.
There are.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I was working with a school and the kids were begging
me to play Foursquare, which Ithought was crazy, that they
even knew what F square was theywere begging me to play, so we
finally did it.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
It was an after-school program and I was
like I got.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
I was like fine, we'll do it, yeah.
And I said to the kids, like Iexplained to them, I was like
the reason we haven't done it isbecause, like, if you get out,
you're gonna sit there until youcan come back in and like I
think that's kind of boring, butif you're cool with it and so
we did it, and honestly, afterfive minutes, because they
gotten so used to the way wewere doing games they were like
this game is boring, so likeagain not saying there's not a
time and place for it.
(26:31):
Exactly, I just do think in thisenvironment, in this class,
it's just an environment forkids to just keep exploring.
Yeah and so, yes, I thinkyou're 100% right.
There's so much that comes fromthat.
Yeah and listen, if you wantyour kid to learn how to lose
and learn how to win, they willdo that Like this is not a
(26:52):
replacement for a soccer leagueor a tournament team.
It's not a replacement for it.
It's another component ofsports that I haven't been able
to find.
I was searching for a classlike this and I couldn't find it
, so I created it and that's allit is it's?
another kind of piece of thepuzzle.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Well, and my hat's off to you because, again, I've
only recently like met you andgotten to know you.
But, um, I tagged, I labeledyour classes as, like, the viral
classes, not because they maybe literally going like.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
TikTok viral.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
They've picked up so much steam.
And you just started in Januaryand by the time I heard about
you I was like, oh my, you know,I think it was like somewhere
in the spring I saw like some ofmy friends posting about you
and I was like that looks kindof neat.
But like again, in a quick flash, I was like those look like
younger kids.
I don't know, I didn't know, Iat the time didn't know if it
was for my age group.
But talk to me, we've talked,obviously, a little bit about
(27:45):
this, but like ways that, asparents, how do you think that
we can keep encouraging our kidswith sports, with activities,
with all the different thingsthat we do?
Obviously, this class is one ofthem, but, like you know, we
obviously cannot, you know,avoid the other types of coaches
and regimens that are out there, right?
(28:07):
I mean creating, you know,these kinds of programs are
awesome and seeking them outwhen possible is ideal, right?
How do we help encourage ourkids down this path of
activities while also avoidingburnout?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So there's a lot to it because parents mean well, I
think there's you know to saythat you shouldn't do this or
you shouldn't do that.
Parents, they want what's bestfor their kid.
What we do know is that I thinkthe number is correct 75% of
kids drop out of structuredsports by age 13.
Wow, 75%, and that's a risingnumber.
(28:41):
And so people are starting toask well, why is that?
There's what's called the TigerWoods effect.
So when we were young we'reabout the same age Tiger Woods
came on the scene and wassuccessful and winning.
And the story that was told isthat when he was really young,
like three years old, his dadhad him golfing constantly and
taught him how to golf, got himgolfing lessons and really was
(29:03):
on his case about it, and that'show he became Tiger Woods.
And that's true.
And so what happened was peoplestarted thinking well, if I do
that with my kid, they'll be thenext Tiger Woods.
And coaches started thinkingwell, geez, if I offer that
training for kids at a young ageand we train and we work hard,
like we can make them better.
And we now know, after 20 yearsof right of this effect, it's
(29:29):
just not true right.
There's so many factors that gointo whether someone likes golf,
that much yep uh is naturallygifted at golf is is actually
being taught the right things,whatever it really is.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Trainers, right coaches at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
I think we all can think in our own minds of
athletes that we knew as kidsthat were that peaked really
young.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
They were the best in high school and they didn't go
anywhere.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
And that's not bad, it's just whatever they didn't
go anywhere.
We know athletes that didn'treally shine until end of high
school or college, or nowadaysyou can go to a low D2, 3, d1
program and with the portal,whether you like it or not, like
(30:13):
you can transfer to a betterprogram.
And so the notion that you'reselling your kids short by not
getting them involved in anelite club program at a young
age is just false.
And I listen, I will.
If anyone's listening that is adirector of a club program that
disagrees with what I'm saying,call me, email me, let's have
coffee, I will.
If you're a parent and a clubdirector is telling you that
your kid's got potential, he's astud and he's a third grader,
uh, call me and I will.
I would love to sit down withthat director and be like look
(30:35):
me in the eye and tell me youthink that's what's best for
this kid, because I just don'tthink it is.
And I think cynically uh,because I've been a part of it
from the business side you cancan charge $2,000 a year, plus
travel expenses, plus equipment.
It's a heck of a business andI'm not here to say that those
folks are evil people.
I have a lot of friends who arein that side of the business,
(30:58):
and I think they've just gottencaught up in the materialistic
side of the game, the elitetournaments that parents are in
and listen if your kid loves it,then do it.
But the amount of times I hearparents say, oh my God, we've
got another tournament thisweekend.
It's like you're in charge.
This is your family, this isyour budget, this is your kid,
(31:19):
and don't let a club directorconvince you that you're making
the wrong decision.
When I was running a sleepawaycamp had parents would say my
kid loves we were a four-weekcamp, so you come to our camp
for four weeks.
Yeah, parents would come to usand they'd say, my kid loves
camp their third grade.
They want to come back nextsummer, but their baseball coach
.
(31:39):
this is a 100 true, specificexample their baseball coach
says they've got real potentialand so they should really be
playing baseball all summer andnot go to sleepaway camp.
What should we do?
And I said we'll talk to yourkid.
What does he want to do?
He wants to go to camp, so lethim go to camp I.
To me, it's as simple as thatright and, and I think, parents
think, well, should I be the onepushing them?
(32:00):
I have never seen and I'veworked with athletes on up to
team usa, with pro athletes,with the team building and
leadership company that I have.
I've worked with the strengthcoaches for Team USA lacrosse.
I've had them on my own podcastand I have never met anyone who
knows an athlete that got tothe top by being pushed by their
(32:23):
parents.
They all say the opposite.
That is huge.
You need athletes that areinternally driven, that want
this, that strive for it.
There's not an athlete outthere that was pushed there or
pushed there happily.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Maybe you can find an example, and I guarantee you
they're burned out and they'renot happy.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And so I ask, I tell parents, when you're signing up
for a program, talk to your kidwhat do you really want?
Maybe it sounds silly to ask athird grader, but do it.
What do you really want out ofthis?
Um and uh, talk to the coachesand the club directors and say
what is the experience gonna be?
What is my kid gonna belearning?
Because a lot of these programsyou're gonna be doing two
practices a week.
(32:59):
You're gonna be driving a lotin the car for those practices
and you're gonna be doing a lotof tournaments and even the top
coaches.
So lacrosse just happens to bemy sport, the top division one
coaches in lacrosse have gottentogether just this past season
to make a statement.
Uh, and tillman, the marylandcoach, was the head of this,
like he was the main guy thatspoke.
And maryland is like the goldstandard.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
You're a terp is it as much as I'm a syracuse fan,
as much as it pains me to admit?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
you guys are the gold standard of lacrosse in my
opinion right now.
And he was the one saying Idon't want single sport athletes
that have played tournamentsfor the last 10 years.
I want multi-sport athletesthat have been training and
working to get better and tryingnew things, and developing new
skills.
So it's out there.
It's just parents are listeningto the club director who wants
(33:45):
you to spend the money andlisten.
I might be sounding cynicalagainst these club directors.
Call me out Because I have notbeen able to flip.
Listen.
Wanting a career in youthsports, it would have been
easier for me to just be likeokay, I'll take one of these
club director jobs that's beenoffered to me, right?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
you already mentioned that, so I would love for that
to have been a better option.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I just don't see it as the right option for every
kid at a young age.
As you get older, when I wascoaching at st john's, if you
are 9th, 10th, 11th, your grade,and you have d1 coaches looking
at you, you have coaches likethat at a mi double a school in
this area telling you you'regood enough.
That's a different story.
You're older, it's a fardifferent picture right I'm
talking from, obviously, one tofive, but then you're looking at
(34:32):
like even elementary school,right?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
yes, well, and that kind of.
Basically you're.
You're already answering it,but, um, like, my next kind of
question is like, what do yousay to parents?
Well, what do you say toparents and what are your just
thoughts on this?
In general?
Of Obviously we're talkingabout club sports, but I'm also
thinking about otherorganizations, because I know
dance is a big one, gymnasticsis a big one, where they require
(34:58):
certain when you're on theirteams, their competition teams
and things like that, certainnumber of hours we're talking
like two to four hours a week,know, certain number of hours
we're talking like two to fourhours a week and um, and it no,
granted, the model with them is,you know, unlike, uh, other
sports where you might havegames every weekend, gymnastics
and dance it's not.
You don't have um recitalsevery weekend, but you will have
(35:18):
those bigger competitions orperformances and those will, you
know, eat up a large weekend,things like that, and the
frequency of those depends onthe, the company and things like
that.
But like, what are your thoughtson again, obviously our zero to
five year olds are not beingapproached, but like, a lot of
us parents you know, as we're,we are introducing our kids to
(35:40):
some activities, you know, fromthe first-ish time, and we are
being approached by whether it'sclub directors or it's, you
know, these other workers andthey're, and and I'll be honest
again, I have kids that areliterally in activities for the
first time and you know, um, andI'm seeing them, you know,
interact with these skills andand, and it's awesome to see.
You know, and I'm in no waypushing sports on them because I
(36:02):
wasn't, I wasn't exactly a highlevel athlete, so I'm like I'll
let them figure out what it isthat they want to do.
I wasn't exactly a high levelathlete, so I'm like I'm gonna
let them figure out what it isthat they want to do.
And I mean, in my son I see alot of natural talent and what
he's doing.
He's very gross motor focus, soI love watching that develop.
But you know, so when a coach ora teacher you know says, like
you know, hey, like he's, youknow, looking really good, I
(36:24):
really think you know if hewould be good enough to try out
for the team.
And then, like when you learnabout all those things in number
of hours, I'm like, I mean myfirst thought I'm like oh my god
, like I have two kids to go totwo different schools and I was
like, just doing one, one classI'm talking about over the
course of my two kids, let alonegetting them in two different
separate activities, is alreadya lot on my way.
(36:45):
I mean, god bless all theparents.
I mean obviously people do it,but just the idea of committing,
like my first grader to two, uh, two to four hours a week, like
I mean obviously thatoverwhelms me and initially,
like you know it's, it's as aparent.
Yes, it does kind of feel likeoh wow, they really do have
skill, like that's cool, youknow, and and I, admittedly I
(37:06):
feel like you can kind of I cansee how you can kind of start,
as a parent, start to lean intothat.
But anyways, my question to youis like what are your, what do
you say to parents that are areexperiencing some of that, and
what are your thoughts with Iguess, mainly, maybe, maybe
we're talking about that thiselementary, the k through five
and even middle school age groupcommitting that number of hours
(37:28):
to a sport weekly Gymnastics isan interesting example because
it's a very young sport.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
So I worked with college gymnastic D1 college
gymnastics programs.
I do team training.
So when I do a team training itis 8 am to 8 pm in a classroom
setting where we are.
The goal is.
I use public speaking as a wayto get you out of your shell.
I don't care if you're a betterpublic speaker, but you're
going to get up.
(37:55):
You're going to give a speechto your entire team.
The first one you give isyou're introducing your partner.
So you and I are partners.
Can you get up this is Claireand really like have enthusiasm
of energy, which isuncomfortable for some people.
Yeah, people break down intothree categories.
Number one they're like I'mready to do this, this sounds
fun.
Number two they're like I don'tknow, like are you doing it?
Am I doing it?
Like it's a group decision.
And the third type of person islike I don't like this yeah and
(38:17):
I say like I don't.
I'm not trying to say you haveto be extroverted to be a leader
.
I am saying to be comfortable,to be yourself, to be confident,
step into power.
And so the goal by the end ofthe day is that these athletes
get up and they give like arah-rah, pump up speech to their
team.
Their team is supporting them.
So I do these types of programswith athletes.
I've worked with soccerprograms, lacrosse, gymnastics,
(38:39):
basketball, and gymnasticsalways stands out to me because
a big part of what I preach isprogress, not perfection.
And gymnastics was the firstgroup of athletes to challenge
me and say we have to be perfect, that is our sport.
We have to be perfect.
That is the whole.
That's how we are judged in oursport and that's how we win in
(39:00):
our sport, and then the otherthing they taught me was you
know, when I work with a collegebasketball team, they might
have the I've worked with top 25programs Like they might have
the potential to win it all andthey might then go.
I worked with guys who are inthe pros working with college
gymnasts.
They might be past their primeLike you, like they're, you've,
(39:22):
you've passed If you're 18, 19,20, 21 years old, you've passed
the age of of being in theOlympicsics, if that's the goal,
right?
So I say that to say I don'thave all the answers.
Like I don't know like anddominique dodds would probably
be a much better answer for itbecause I trust, I trust that
organization, I trust her.
No, exactly and so I think.
But the answer I will give isum, I, I also think, parents, we
(39:47):
don't.
We don't want to feel like so,so like, if we're busy and we're
traveling, we got three kids,but then you have that guilt of
like, well, I don't want to,like, make a decision that my
kid's not going to be in thiselite program because it's a
burden on me.
I want to give everything I canto my kid.
That implies that the goal isthat they go pro, or the goal is
that they play at a high levelin college, and that might not
(40:07):
be the goal.
Again, I have worked withhigh-level D1 athletes.
I've worked with pros and theyare the first to tell you that
this isn't necessarily worth it.
The first episode on my podcastis with a former.
Harry Swain played for theBaltimore Ravens.
He won four Super Bowls becausehe won, I think, one as a
player and then three as a coachat different organizations.
(40:29):
And he says on the podcast hedoesn't really like football
that much, like it's not hisfavorite sport.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
He actually, he just was.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
He's like six foot four.
He was always really strong.
He's naturally great at it, andso he ended up playing for 20
years in the NFL.
He likes football, but it's nothis favorite sport.
It's not his favorite thing todo.
And so this notion that thegoal is to play at this level or
(40:59):
the goal is to play at a highlevel in college, I don't know,
I just don't think that shouldalways be the goal and I don't
think that there's an athleteout there that's missing that
opportunity because theirparents didn't push them into
the right thing at a young,young, young age.
But listen to your kid, payattention to your kid, make a
decision as a family, like, ifyou're listening to this and
(41:19):
you're like my kid doescompetitive gymnastics and they
love it and we love it and weall love watching it and it's a
lot of fun, then do it.
I'm not telling you that it'sinherently bad.
I think too many parents justassume it's inherently good when
it's a family decision of.
What do we really want out ofthis experience and what do we
want to do?
Speaker 1 (41:38):
And I think you said that perfectly about a family
decision, right?
Like you know the parent beingapproached about, you know the
club sport or committing todance or gymnastics, something
like that.
You know it's easy for theparent to be like, oh well, I
want to give everything to mykid, but what does your kid want
in that situation?
You know, like, yes, like whatif you made that decision, but
(42:00):
are you making the decision forthem?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Right.
You know, like when I was young, listen I did play for a club
program.
Like when I was young, listen,I did play for a club program.
And back when we were youngerso I grew up in Syracuse there
were two elite club teams that Iknew of and you had to try out.
And because there was only twofor the entire Syracuse area,
which is a big lacrosse area, Imade the team and my parents
then were like, do you want todo this?
(42:22):
And I was like I do.
You could not have convinced menot to do it.
I did it.
We played a lot.
I ended up I stopped playingbasketball and soccer, and this
was in ninth grade, so by thetime I was in high school.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I was 12.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
And I loved it.
I have no regrets.
My brother's, 10 years youngerthan me.
By the time he came around,there were 25 teams in Syracuse
all calling themselves eliteclub teams and starting at third
grade and convincing parentsthat kids need to drop these
other sports that I cannot wrapmy head around and that's really
(42:54):
the overarching opinion that Ihave right is that you know,
let's say, gymnastics says yourkids got real talent and they
should really focus on this.
I don't see how that shouldrequire them to drop other
sports and drop other activitiesright um, it just doesn't make
any sense yeah, and there's noresearch behind that, and so
that's the biggest thing is ifthis becomes a job, which is the
(43:18):
other thing I'll say.
I know I'm jumping around, so Ihave a lot of experiences that
were like that, built to whatI'm doing now.
I was working with a volleyballprogram that at the time was
ranked 20th in the country andthey finished the season, I
think, in the sweet 16 reallygood athletes.
A number of them went overseasto play pro volleyball and when
(43:39):
I was doing our training I couldjust I just got this vibe that
they weren't having fun and evenin my team training like oh,
this is fun, this is teambuilding.
This is core, and so I said thatto them.
I was like are you guys havingfun?
And they looked at me like itwas a trick question.
I was like it's not a trap?
I'm curious.
We could totally change whatwe're doing here.
Let's go outside.
I just don't feel like.
(44:09):
And they stared at me like Iwas an idiot and the one that
spoke up and they go no, Ihaven't had fun playing
volleyball in a long time.
They go.
I look at volleyball.
I look at playing at thisschool.
It was a it was a power fiveschool.
They go.
I look at playing at thisschool as a dream job.
I finally got my dream job.
I love it.
Anytime I step on the court, Ilook around, I look at the logo.
I can't believe I'm here.
And it's still a job.
It's still something that Ifeel like I have to do and I
(44:33):
have to go to practice.
But you give me a day off, oh,that's.
That's the best and I just forme.
I think we're losing a lotright Even at that level, if, if
, kids, young adults, are justnot having fun with this anymore
because, at some level.
What's the point if we're nothaving fun with it?
I?
Speaker 1 (44:53):
know well and I think , like, as we wrap up here today
, I think the biggest take homemessage is like in no way are we
and are you dissuading parentsaway from sports and activities.
That's absolutely not themessage we're actually
encouraging.
You know well, actually,multi-sport engagement.
But you won't be able to engagein multi-sport if, say, you've
(45:14):
committed to a program thatrequires you to be.
You know two practices, twogames.
You know what I mean multiplehours a week, because how are
you going?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
to fit in anything else, right?
I don't think I'm not here tohere to you know, let me put it
this way my goal is that kidsfrom 1 to 18 years old are
playing multiple sports because,a I think that's fun.
B I think that's what kids wantto do.
C they want to play with theirfriends, they want to experience
(45:43):
things and and the final pointis, like I said, look, look up
the NCAA lacrosse coaches.
They have a whole video on aspeople recruiting the best
lacrosse players in the country.
They want multi-sport athletes.
Usa Hockey has done this.
I worked with USA Lacrosse onbuilding out their athlete
development program, where theirgoal is to say they want to
(46:05):
grow the game.
The game is going to be in theOlympics in LA, and so the goal
of USA lacrosse for the pastdecade has been how do we get
more people playing our sport?
Yeah, and so you would thinkit's counterintuitive to say
play a lot of sports, but theydon't want just more
participants, they want a bettergame, they want better athletes
.
And what the research tellsthem, tells us, and that what we
would preach is multi-sportkids doing different things when
(46:27):
you're learning how to playdefense in basketball, even
though that might not be yournumber one sport.
you're learning how to playdefense in lacrosse or in soccer
.
When you're learning how to runaround in football, you're
learning how to dodge.
If you're learning how to skatein hockey, holy moly.
You're learning a lot of skillsthat go into that, and you're
also playing sports that youmight not be the best at.
(46:47):
Let's say, your kid is theabsolute best baseball player.
Get them involved in footballor soccer, where they're not the
best, and so they can learnwhat it's like to be led,
because you're not a captain onthat team.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
They can learn what it's like to fail.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
They can have empathy for their fellow teammates and
they can start to learn thatthey have some natural ability.
Because it's easy to assume ifI train four days a week and I'm
really focused, like okay, theneverybody can do this, and then
you do the same thing foranother sport and you have a
different result and it's likeokay.
So there's some other thingsthat play into this and so I
just cannot, you know, preachenough the value of multi-sport
(47:20):
obviously I'm doing it with thelittlest kids, right, and I
think, I think it's obvious whywe want those littlest kids
doing that.
And it goes on up to the highestlevel, and I'm not the only one
saying it.
Go ahead, google long-termathletic development Google.
Lebron James just went viralfor talking about how he never
had a trainer until he was inthe pros.
(47:41):
Luka Doncic was interviewed onSteve Nash's podcast because he
has a foundation whose goal isto create more multi-sport
experiences for kids, because hegrew up in a in a poorer
country that didn't have theseopportunities, and he his study
shows there's a higherpercentage of pros coming from
those environments than fromAmerica, where we have a system
(48:03):
that is having kids in theseclub programs, these trainings.
If anything, what we're seeingis 75 percent of kids dropping
out of sports by 13.
Whereas in the rest of Europe.
They're seeing kids that arethriving and playing sports for
life, Because that's the otherthing.
To end it on it's not about, inmy opinion being pro.
It's about a lifelong love ofphysical activity and sports.
It's about someone that it'sjust who you are.
(48:25):
You don't ever go through a spanof life where you're not
working out, you're not playingtennis or pickleball or golf or
whatever.
Just you love sports, you lovephysical activity.
It's a part of who you are andhow you show up, and that's when
you instill it in a kid at ayoung age.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
That just becomes how they live their life, which is
ultimately socially, emotionally, physically a better way to
live.
Yeah, I love that and, oh mygosh, my head is spinning
because I feel like we couldprobably have about eight more
podcasts.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I wrapped up by giving you like we'll leave it
there.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
We'll probably have to have you back on, because
that is, that is awesome.
Well, thank you so much for allthese nuggets today, bobby.
And again this is a plug, ifyou have, and I know a bunch of
your summer classes are almostlike 90% full, but be sure to
check his website for someopenings.
I think you might have someSaturday availabilities.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
I was going to say the enrollments are full even
Saturday.
Now, oh, there it is, and youcan always do.
I reserve seats for free demodays.
So if you go on my website,there's a link that says free
demo day.
You can sign up for any classfor that.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
And then there's also drop-in days, where you can
sign up for multiple drop-indays.
Um, you could sign up for ninedrop-in days.
At this point it would be, youknow whatever six, whatever's
left, right, um.
So you still can sign up forclass using the demo day or the
drop-in day perfect and um, andthen I know, eventually you'll
be rolling out your fall classes, so those will be coming soon.
So if you didn't make it in thesummer.
If your summer's too busy, beon the lookout for that too.
But other than that, thank youso much again.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of MomTalk
Maryland.
If you loved it, leave a review, share it with a friend or tag
me at thecolumbiamom onInstagram.
I'd love to hear what you thinkand don't forget to follow the
show so you never miss anepisode.
Until next time, keep showingup, keep supporting local and
keep being the incredible mom,woman, human that you are.
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