January 26, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode of Moonbeam Musings, we dive into the world of Celtic Ireland with special guest Mish Vizard, a hedge witch and spiritual practitioner deeply connected to her Irish Celtic heritage. Together, we explore the rich tapestry of Celtic traditions, from ancient rituals and the symbolism of trees like oak and yew, to the stories of goddesses such as Anya, who embodies sovereignty and love.
Mish shares her personal journey as a Celtic woman, offering insights into the Celtic woman’s connection to the land, community, and the divine. We uncover the values of interconnectedness, balance, and reciprocity that underpin Celtic beliefs, and how these themes resonate in modern celebrations like Samhain and Beltane.
Listeners will also hear about the significance of wells, springs, and storytelling in Irish Celtic customs, as well as the enduring impact of Celtic symbols, myths, and festivals in today’s world. Whether you’re drawn to the mystical side of Celtic Ireland or curious about its influence on community and spirituality, this episode offers a fascinating glimpse into a culture rooted in nature and harmony.
Discover how ancient practices still thrive in modern events like wassailing, and learn how connecting to the rhythms of the land can inspire deeper reflection in our everyday lives. Don’t miss this enriching conversation with Mish Vizard!
Moonbeam Musings is a podcast that weaves together the magic of myths, traditions, and cultures from around the world. Hosted by Filzie, the show explores topics like folklore, spirituality, and the intersections of history and modern-day practice. Each episode invites listeners on a journey into the unknown, featuring thought-provoking conversations with experts, practitioners, and storytellers who share their unique perspectives and experiences. Whether it's Celtic traditions, Filipino folklore, or the mystical connections between nature and humanity, Moonbeam Musings uncovers the threads that bind us to our roots and to each other.
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YouTube: @moonbeammusings
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.
(00:09):
Hi everyone, and welcome toanother episode of moonbeam
musings. So today we're talkingto mish wizard about the Celts.
So the Celts. I'm going to giveyou a brief introduction before
we start. So the Celts were anetwork of tribal societies that
emerged during the Iron Agearound 1200 BCE in Central
(00:30):
Europe, with origins linked tothe hulsack culture, which was
around 800 BCE in what's nowcalled Austria, expanding west
into France, Spain and into theBritish Isles and East as far as
Turkey the Celts became knownfor their intricate better work,
spiritual practices and warriorculture. The LA tene period 450
(00:53):
BC marked the height of theirartistic and cultural
expression, although Romanconquest led to the decline of
the Celtic influence in much ofmainline Europe, their
traditions endured in Ireland,Scotland and Wales, festivals
like the main Beltane andembolic have survived, evolving
into modern celebrations such asHalloween and st bridges day
(01:16):
today, Celtic culture lives onthroughout language, Music and
rituals, reflecting the enduringlegacy of these ancient peoples.
So thank you. Meesh Miz forjoining us today. Would you like
to introduce yourself before wemove on to talk about the Celts?
Yeah.
Hi, Phillipa, thanks for havingme. Um, so kind of I guess my,
(01:39):
my relation to the Celtics andCeltic traditions is my
heritage. So I've got Irishbackground through my grandma,
she's from Mayo, and I hold yournationality, Irish and British.
So I guess the thing thatconnects me is my spiritual
practice. I'm a witch. I'm ahedge witch, which means I'm a
kind of solo practitioner, andI've been interested in all
(02:02):
things witches since I was ateenager. Really probably
started with the kind of theesthetic of it, and being a bit
of a glass and all that kind ofthing, that then evolved into
really learning more and moreabout it over the years. And I'm
professionally, I've been aclinician as a clinical
background, which links in with,if you think the history of
witches and that healer and wisewoman and herbalist and that
(02:26):
kind of thing, and, yeah,everything to do with kind of
the Celtic I guess culture,specifically around paganism and
the pagan wheel, really appealsto me. One myth about witches
that I want to bust this, orwitches are pagan or Wiccan, and
we're not. You can have witchesfrom any background or no
(02:48):
religion at all. I'm actuallycrystal pagan, which is for me,
I guess it's about honoring thedivine, female, feminine, the
female, and understanding thosecycles and the balance of male
and female energies in how weworship and how we can with the
language kind of thing. Myfavorite Celtic goddess is Anya,
(03:12):
and who I would say homage tooffer, if I'm, you know, if I'm
doing a little wish orsomething, I'm like, you know,
Goddess Anya, Anisha right now,and he just put and she embodies
sovereignty and love and summer,I guess if you was going to
marry her up with the Roman andGreek gods to be like the idea
(03:33):
or Venus and that kind of thing,and she's into the rhythms of
the land. So I guess throughthrough that lens, I explore
Celtic traditions, and I guessthe sense of identity and
spirituality around that hope.
I've not gone on too long, butthat's kind of my connection to
it all.
No thank you. That's that givesus a really thorough
(03:55):
introduction, really, because Ithink there is a lot of
misconceptions about, you know,witches and pagans. So to start
with, maybe, do you know anoverview of what shaped the
Celtic belief system and theirconnection to maybe nature and
the land?
Well, it's very rooted in theenvironment. So it's all it's
(04:17):
all about the land. I mean, ifyou think about, in your
introduction, you talked aboutthe Celtic, I guess, nations, if
you like, from Austria andScandinavia and the Vikings and
in Scotland, Wales Isle of Man,Ireland, all these kind of
Celtic places. There's, it was aworld of rivers, forests,
(04:38):
mountains, and the kind of case,changing seasons and these
natural elements were viewedvery much as sacred. So they
didn't see themselves asseparate from nature. They were
everything was one, and they'revery much, you know, part of it,
and living and breathing. Theybelieve trees were living things
and and so, I guess, in termsof, you. The Celtic blue systems
(05:01):
and their connection to land.
It's just they were part of it,I guess is the easiest way to
kind of summarize that. Andalso, if you think about that
reverence and how it shapedtheir deities, so many of them
were associated with specificnational elements, like the
rivers you had bawan, or thesun, you had Lu and there's that
(05:24):
spiritual framework was kind ofinfluenced by practical needs.
So farming and aligning with thelands rhythms were vital,
really, for survival, and kindof those farming practices,
what do you what do you thinkthe values are that underpin
most Celtic rituals andpractices?
(05:48):
I guess there's three, three keyprinciples that would come to
mind for me. One isinterconnectedness. The other
one is balance, which I alreadytalked about. It's like that
whole Yin and Yang andreciprocal. Reciprocity, I can't
say it reciprocity. I can'treciprocation, yeah, that kind
(06:10):
of thing. So it's all about thatgiving and taking, and you give
back and you take from the land.
So everything they saw it as acycle. The Celts would very much
see life as a cycle, I guess.
And and emphasizing that harmonybetween opposing forces, like
light and dark, good and bad,life and death, or the and you
(06:32):
see that in the in the wheel,for example, two key opposites.
There you've got saw Wayne sawabout life, about death and the,
you know, the marking of the endof the harvest as we go into
winter. And then you've got,like, belting, which is life and
rebirth and renewal. Soeverything's kind of got these
(06:52):
harmonies. So I think, I thinkthey're the three principles,
really, and that reciprocationwas essential because, for like,
offerings were given to land orgods as a way to kind of
maintain balance and showgratitude. And also, there's a
little dose of superstition inthere as well, if you didn't
(07:14):
say, do a offering to the gods,and something bad might happen,
or your craps might fail, orthat kind of thing. So that's
very much part of it. And alsocommunity and kinship were
vital. So ritual strength andbonds within a tribe and these
kind of comings together wouldvery much be part of their life,
(07:37):
really, and living andbreathing.
And thank you that. How do youthink they use those rituals to
foster a sense of community in ain a collective way,
I guess, because it's theritualistic fact. So humans, we
(07:58):
like, we like ritual. Don't welike we like things. So if it's
like, you know, we think aboutwe've just had Christmas, for
example, and we like to knowwhat's coming each year. And I
think as part of that, you wouldhave these communal events,
which often involved feasting,storytelling, shared offerings,
(08:19):
music, dancing, that kind ofthing, which we still see today,
actually, but that theyreinforced kind of like a shared
identity, I guess, not just tothe tribe and the community, but
also to their ancestors. So theywere always about the past, the
present and the future. So thepast would be looking back and
(08:40):
reflecting on the year that'sgone, or their ancestors the
present, like what's happeningright now we're celebrating, or
we're giving thanks, or we'redoing an offering, and then
looking forward what's comingdown the line. What can we
expect? What can we celebratethat we're going to look forward
to, whether it be summer or, youknow, good harvest, or whatever
that might be. So, yeah, I thinkit's all about really using
(09:05):
rituals to foster that communityand passing on their identity,
so that, you know, talks aboutthis, the storytelling and the
oral traditions, a lot of thatis how the culture was passed
on, because, you know, theyweren't writing things down at
this stage, and you know,historically, they might not
have had that ability, althoughyou see things passed on through
(09:31):
symbolism. So there'll be a lotof Celtic images and symbols
that you would see. But really,it's, it's, it's creating that
collective narrative. To kind ofstrengthen bonds and preserve
the tradition, really, I wouldsay,
Hmm, do I think we've touched onthis in another aspect. But do
you think that act of honoringancestors and the dead was more
(09:54):
about respect fear ormaintaining a sense of
continuity? Yeah?
I think it's a bit, a bit of allof those. I think it was
important to show respect forthe ancestors. Is, I mean, Sal
Wayne is just really like onegreat big wake, you know, it's,
it's the veil fins, and it's achance to kind of pay respects.
(10:17):
You might think about peopleyou've lost that year. It might
be, you might go back furtherand just kind of pay reverence
to your ancestors and how yourtribe or your community evolved.
So that's very much about thatrespect and gratitude. But then
there was also a dose of fear, Iguess, around the superstitions
so things like, you know,leaving out a carved, well,
(10:41):
actually, carved tonic or Swede,to ward away the evil spirits.
Because if the veils thin, thenyou know you're going to get
spirits, and not all of them arefriendly. So you want to be able
to connect with your ancestors,but also keep away anything, any
nasty, I guess, unfriendlyspirits and that kind of thing.
(11:01):
So that's where the kind of thefear, I would say, comes into
it. And then I guess, is thatagain, coming back to that
cultural identity and the wisdomthey're passing on through these
traditions. And it's guess thatconnection to, I guess, the
bridge between the livingelements of of the Celtic
traditions, like the farming andthe practical stuff, and then
(11:23):
the spiritual side of things,which we very much see with
birth, life, death, marriage,hand fasting, all those kinds of
things. I mean, it's, it'sreally hard, because to talk
about helps in a podcast likethis. It's fantastic. But
really, I guess you either gomile wide, inch deep, or you
could pick one topic, and wecould go a mile deep on, you
(11:46):
know, something niche, like justtalking about Saint Patrick's
Day, or just talking about thetradition of marriage, or those
kinds of things. So there's alot to cover. Yeah,
I understand, I understand we'retouching the topic today, maybe
you can come back and and whatwe get demands for we can talk
about in further in depth. So,okay, so how about storytelling
(12:12):
and myth? Because that thatplays a part in the cultic
traditions, doesn't it? Is therea What's the reason behind that?
Do you mean a lot, a lot of thekind of storytelling and the
myths would revolve around, Iguess, some of the the Celtic
deities as well. So, you know,I've talked about Anya, which is
(12:33):
my favorite goddess. You've got,you know, Bridget, and you've
got, oh, I mean, there's loadsand loads of Celtic gods. So
there'd be stories told aboutthem. And like, in the same way,
you'd hear about Romans talkingabout their gods, or Greeks
talking about their gods,Vikings, again, you know, Odin
and all these kinds of things.
They're all kind of branches ofthe same kind of belief system
where you've got these pagandeities that tend to connect
(12:56):
with the land, like I saidbefore, whether it be the trees
or the rivers or the sun or themoon and so all this because was
kind of, we weaved into the thestories that they would tell, as
well as their own personalstories. Of you know how their
landscape was shaped. And so,for example, in Scotland, you
(13:21):
would hear the stories of thecalyac and how the mountains and
the and the veils of thehighlands and were kind of
carved by her well, her woodenstaff. And when she would shape
nature with the with the snowand those kinds of things. So
(13:42):
all these kind of stories wouldbe told around the fire, and,
and, and, I guess this, I mean,there's so many facets to it.
Even within the Celtictraditions of just the British
Isles and Ireland and Scotlandand Wales, you've got so many
different words for all thesethings. Actually, one of the
most fascinating places I'vebeen to around relating to all
(14:04):
of this is the Isle of Man.
There's so much to go and seethere that that's still intact.
So if you're a big fan of druidsites and kind of investigating
some of this and symbolism,definitely go to the Isle of
Man, because it's there's somereally cool kind of, I guess,
landmarks and heritage sitesthat that picks up on all of
(14:26):
this. But, yeah, I feel like I'mmaybe repeating some stuff, but
it's, yeah, it's all about,really, that connection to the
land. I'd say, Phillipa,yeah. Oh, absolutely. It's fine.
I think it's good to reinforceit and link everything back
together again, especially forthose of us that don't have as
much knowledge. I mean, myancestry is Welsh, but I only
(14:48):
have a small amount of knowledgeon this, which is why I'm so
interested. And I appreciate youcoming to talk to us. I
apologize for marmalade tryingto get. On the podcast.
Why do you think so, if we moveon to you're talking about
symbols. Why do you think trees,especially oak and you held such
powerful symbolism in the Celtictradition? Was it a practical
(15:10):
reason or a deeper connection?
Um, I guess it is. Is it there'sa spiritual connection there, so
that they very much kind of sawtrees as living entities, which
is what was kind of talkingabout before. And you've
probably seen the images of thetree with the roots going into
(15:33):
the ground and that kind ofthing, like the tree of life.
And it was seen as connectingthe heavens to the earth and the
underworld as well. And thenyou've got symbolism for
specific types of trees. So theoak is very much about strength
and wisdom. The yew tree isassociated with death and
rebirth, if you and the yew treewas actually used a lot sacred
(15:58):
druid sites. So the monks, forexample, and and druids would
would lie under you trees. Andso when you've got the sun
hitting the branches and the theberries, you would almost get
like they could get high off it,and they would have visions, and
they would have spiritualjourneys from, from kind of the
(16:23):
essence of of of the yew tree.
Um, it's interesting one. Youshould have a look at it. And
what you'll find is because theywere sacred trees on sacred
sites. A lot of tree a lot ofchurches were built on these
druid sites. So almost always,if you go to a graveyard, you'll
see you trees, and that'sbecause on our church yards,
you'll see you trees, and that'sbecause they've invariably
(16:44):
predate the church, and churcheswere built on those sacred sites
because and that connection todeath as well. You'll see them
in in churchyards.
Oh, wow, that's reallyinteresting. And what about the
wells and springs in Celticcustoms as well. Yeah. So again,
that they these were often notjust sources of, you know,
(17:08):
essential life force that iswater. They were seen as a
sacred spaces. They wouldsometimes have rituals at the
site of the water or the spring.
If a new spring was found, itwould have to be celebrated
with, you know, some kind ofblessing or ritual. Is it, you
know, very much, very muchconnected to the source, really,
I think we've, we've, we'vealmost lost some of this,
(17:32):
haven't we? And I think it's, Ialmost think recently, I've seen
a real revival in peoplebecoming interested in again,
and we're seeing a massiveincrease in people, some you
know, people joining things likereligions like paganism and
Wiccan, but also people notreally attaching themselves to a
specific religion as such, butjust celebrating the wheel More.
(17:54):
So I'm connected to a communityorganization and who are putting
on events around the wheel, andwe're seeing a lot of people
coming to these celebrationswith their families, with their
children, to join in andcelebrate like Beltane or sor
Wayne in the traditional ways,but not necessarily with any
(18:16):
kind of previous connection toany kind of pagan type religion,
they're just interested in it.
Again, I think people arelooking for that connection and
and community, and that'slovely, really. Mm, yeah, must
say, I've been to one of thoseevents, which is where I've I've
met you, and it was very lovely.
(18:37):
Yeah, very nice. So, I guesssomething that I have a question
as well is the sacrifices. Youspoke about giving to the land,
the giving and taking, but therewere sacrifices, and what? What
was the symbolism behind them?
Reallywell, you often see, so if
you're looking media and TV,you'll see these sacrifices are
(19:01):
always kind of, I guess they'resensationalized. You'll see that
like if you watch Vikings, forexample, which is, you know,
shows a lot of elements of ofpagan belief systems. It shows
quite goy detail and that kindof thing. And I think one,
that's sensationalized, and two,looking more towards the cult
(19:24):
side of things. While some ofthose practices did happen, they
were done in a very respectfulway, and it was very much about,
again, this whole balance ofgiving back to the land, for
example, in Sao a when, youknow, they'd bring the sheep
down from the pastures andthey'd light fires, they'd
(19:44):
invariably sacrifice, say, a ramor a goat or something like
that. Want to give thanks forthe harvest, and also for
superstitious elements to makesure that they had a good
winter. You. And that the winterwasn't too unkind to them, and
and then that that RAM, or thatthat goat would would be, would
(20:05):
invariably be consumed by thecommunity as part of the
feasting, as part of thecelebrations, and that kind of
thing. So it wasn't just kind oflike this wasted, spilt blood
type thing. And sometimes thesacrifices were not, you know,
the death of an animal at all.
They would sometimes be, youknow, you'd leave out some
(20:28):
bread, or, you know, for thegods, or you'd leave so many
pieces of fruit on the tree forthe gods, or, you know, or for
the animals and that kind ofthing. So you would never take
everything. And I think that'sone of the running themes as
well. When it comes to theCelts, when harvesting, they
wouldn't say apples, theywouldn't strip the entire tree.
(20:49):
They'd always leave one or twofor for nature or for the gods.
Thank you. In terms of, say, Idon't know if you know anything
about how they all organized. Imean, now it's slightly
different, but how it wasorganized in terms of when
running celebrations, orgenerally, for example, were
(21:11):
there people that tended to leadgroups?
Yeah, you'd have your communityleaders. You'd have your
spiritual leaders. Druids andSears were were seen as kind of
like intellectual spiritualleaders in Celtic society. They
would be knowledgeable, and Iguess, was seen as mediators
(21:35):
between the mortal and thedivine. They'd often be seen as
having a gift. They would oftenguide people with decisions and
that kind of thing, and be verymuch at the heart of these big
community celebrations. I'mquite sure. You know, it was
very much like it today, youknow, with with women,
(21:55):
invariably doing lots of cookingand preparing foods and and men,
you know, maybe putting upmakeshift gazebos, type tents,
you know, how to explain it, butthey would do. Everybody would
be involved, and everyone wouldhave their role to play. And
there would be leaders andelders of the community that
would be very much at the heartof the organizing, which is kind
(22:17):
of what you see today, even likewhen I was talking about the
events at the borough, you know,we, we very much come together
as a team, and everyone's kindof got the strengths and
weaknesses, and it just fitslike a jigsaw. And and then we
all bring different aspects ofknowledge or the spiritual to
some celebrations and, and Iguess it wasn't that much
different to that, to be fair,Phillipa and, and I think that
(22:40):
wisdom and that sense ofreverence and respecting your
elders was so crucial. And Ithink that's another thing we've
sadly lost. And I think part ofthat's down to displaced ways
that we live now as the familyunits. You know, you'd very much
all stay together as a family inthe same village, in the same
community, whereas now we're allover the place. You know, I'm
(23:01):
from Manchester originally, andlive down here in Surrey, and my
daughter's in Newcastle, and myfamily's up in Huddersfield and
Manchester, and I think we'vekind of lost that. So I think, I
think there's definitely a needfor more of that community
again, where we have elders heldaloft and respected and and that
(23:24):
kind of thing. But yeah,probably go off at tangent
again.
No, no, that's brilliant. Imean, I think that's what's sort
of coming round. I mean, in theprevious podcast, we've spoken
about animism and Aline from wewent very much into the
scientific world, and we'removing a little bit more back
into communities and into thisworld, as you spoke about
(23:44):
earlier, and so more peopleshowing up at your events makes
perfect sense of where we are,and that's why I think it's very
important that we talk moreabout and talk about these
things so people can understandthem more. Because there may be
people out there that are moreinterested now in this topic and
want to look into it further,because they, too, are looking
for a sense of community. Iguess. You know, we're pretty
(24:09):
much there, and I reallyappreciate the time. So just to
finish off, I wonder if there'sone key lesson you think we
could take from the Celts, whatwould it be? If there was one,
I would say it's, it's theimportance of kind of living in
in that harmony, and not seeingourselves as separate to the
(24:31):
that, you know, everything elsethere's like, quite often we're
as humans, and we consume, andthen there's everything else and
how it meets our needs. Andactually we should. We shouldn't
be in the center with all thisrevolve around us. We should all
be part of that as a whole. Andso just just taking some more
time to think about how we giveback to the land, to our
(24:56):
community, to each other, Ithink. That's really important,
and try and have a look forlocal events in your area. I
mean, today, for example, I meanwe talked about Celtic
celebrations, but today, I'mtrying to remember the name of
Oh. It says today is no lagmaBam, which is women's Christmas
(25:17):
in the Celtic tradition. So it'snot actually a pagan festival.
It's just a Celtic celebration,specifically to Ireland and
related to epiphany, which istoday, and it was women's
Christmas, and it was all aboutwomen having a day of rest after
all the efforts of Christmastime and Yul time, and
(25:38):
connecting with the friends, thegirly friends and all the women
that they love, and just havinga day off and and chilling out.
And I think so there's so manydifferent lovely festivals. I
think it would be good for us tokind of look at, look around us,
and see what, see what's on inyour local area. Connect to
organizations that are kind ofputting on events. If you look,
(26:01):
I will give you the link. Youcan share it, but there's a
directory, for example, ofwasserling events coming up. So
the next week or so, you'll seelots of wasserling events, where
people are dancing, runningaround orchards and and wishing
for good things for the year. Soyeah, look, look out for events
in your area, and really try andconnect and to the land and the
(26:23):
community and nature. Really, Ithink that would be it in a
nutshell.
Oh, that's wonderful. Well,thank you so much, meesh. We're
going to add all the notes belowin the description your
Instagram and some of the thingsthat you've mentioned today in
the events link that you justmentioned there we can add as
well. So I really appreciate youcoming in, informing all the
(26:44):
listeners about the Celtictraditions, and hopefully we'll
have you back on in the futureas well, so we'll see what, what
everyone resonates with in inthe topic, and we can dive
deeper next timeit says, it's so broad, isn't
it? But um, thank you for havingme. It's been nice to have a
letter. Hope I didn't go off ontoo many sentences. No,
definitely not. Thank you.
Applause.
Music.
(00:09):
Hi everyone, and welcome toanother episode of moonbeam
musings. So today we're talkingto mish wizard about the Celts.
So the Celts. I'm going to giveyou a brief introduction before
we start. So the Celts were anetwork of tribal societies that
emerged during the Iron Agearound 1200 BCE in Central
(00:30):
Europe, with origins linked tothe hulsack culture, which was
around 800 BCE in what's nowcalled Austria, expanding west
into France, Spain and into theBritish Isles and East as far as
Turkey the Celts became knownfor their intricate better work,
spiritual practices and warriorculture. The LA tene period 450
(00:53):
BC marked the height of theirartistic and cultural
expression, although Romanconquest led to the decline of
the Celtic influence in much ofmainline Europe, their
traditions endured in Ireland,Scotland and Wales, festivals
like the main Beltane andembolic have survived, evolving
into modern celebrations such asHalloween and st bridges day
(01:16):
today, Celtic culture lives onthroughout language, Music and
rituals, reflecting the enduringlegacy of these ancient peoples.
So thank you. Meesh Miz forjoining us today. Would you like
to introduce yourself before wemove on to talk about the Celts?
Yeah.
Hi, Phillipa, thanks for havingme. Um, so kind of I guess my,
(01:39):
my relation to the Celtics andCeltic traditions is my
heritage. So I've got Irishbackground through my grandma,
she's from Mayo, and I hold yournationality, Irish and British.
So I guess the thing thatconnects me is my spiritual
practice. I'm a witch. I'm ahedge witch, which means I'm a
kind of solo practitioner, andI've been interested in all
(02:02):
things witches since I was ateenager. Really probably
started with the kind of theesthetic of it, and being a bit
of a glass and all that kind ofthing, that then evolved into
really learning more and moreabout it over the years. And I'm
professionally, I've been aclinician as a clinical
background, which links in with,if you think the history of
witches and that healer and wisewoman and herbalist and that
(02:26):
kind of thing, and, yeah,everything to do with kind of
the Celtic I guess culture,specifically around paganism and
the pagan wheel, really appealsto me. One myth about witches
that I want to bust this, orwitches are pagan or Wiccan, and
we're not. You can have witchesfrom any background or no
(02:48):
religion at all. I'm actuallycrystal pagan, which is for me,
I guess it's about honoring thedivine, female, feminine, the
female, and understanding thosecycles and the balance of male
and female energies in how weworship and how we can with the
language kind of thing. Myfavorite Celtic goddess is Anya,
(03:12):
and who I would say homage tooffer, if I'm, you know, if I'm
doing a little wish orsomething, I'm like, you know,
Goddess Anya, Anisha right now,and he just put and she embodies
sovereignty and love and summer,I guess if you was going to
marry her up with the Roman andGreek gods to be like the idea
(03:33):
or Venus and that kind of thing,and she's into the rhythms of
the land. So I guess throughthrough that lens, I explore
Celtic traditions, and I guessthe sense of identity and
spirituality around that hope.
I've not gone on too long, butthat's kind of my connection to
it all.
No thank you. That's that givesus a really thorough
(03:55):
introduction, really, because Ithink there is a lot of
misconceptions about, you know,witches and pagans. So to start
with, maybe, do you know anoverview of what shaped the
Celtic belief system and theirconnection to maybe nature and
the land?
Well, it's very rooted in theenvironment. So it's all it's
(04:17):
all about the land. I mean, ifyou think about, in your
introduction, you talked aboutthe Celtic, I guess, nations, if
you like, from Austria andScandinavia and the Vikings and
in Scotland, Wales Isle of Man,Ireland, all these kind of
Celtic places. There's, it was aworld of rivers, forests,
(04:38):
mountains, and the kind of case,changing seasons and these
natural elements were viewedvery much as sacred. So they
didn't see themselves asseparate from nature. They were
everything was one, and they'revery much, you know, part of it,
and living and breathing. Theybelieve trees were living things
and and so, I guess, in termsof, you. The Celtic blue systems
(05:01):
and their connection to land.
It's just they were part of it,I guess is the easiest way to
kind of summarize that. Andalso, if you think about that
reverence and how it shapedtheir deities, so many of them
were associated with specificnational elements, like the
rivers you had bawan, or thesun, you had Lu and there's that
(05:24):
spiritual framework was kind ofinfluenced by practical needs.
So farming and aligning with thelands rhythms were vital,
really, for survival, and kindof those farming practices,
what do you what do you thinkthe values are that underpin
most Celtic rituals andpractices?
(05:48):
I guess there's three, three keyprinciples that would come to
mind for me. One isinterconnectedness. The other
one is balance, which I alreadytalked about. It's like that
whole Yin and Yang andreciprocal. Reciprocity, I can't
say it reciprocity. I can'treciprocation, yeah, that kind
(06:10):
of thing. So it's all about thatgiving and taking, and you give
back and you take from the land.
So everything they saw it as acycle. The Celts would very much
see life as a cycle, I guess.
And and emphasizing that harmonybetween opposing forces, like
light and dark, good and bad,life and death, or the and you
(06:32):
see that in the in the wheel,for example, two key opposites.
There you've got saw Wayne sawabout life, about death and the,
you know, the marking of the endof the harvest as we go into
winter. And then you've got,like, belting, which is life and
rebirth and renewal. Soeverything's kind of got these
(06:52):
harmonies. So I think, I thinkthey're the three principles,
really, and that reciprocationwas essential because, for like,
offerings were given to land orgods as a way to kind of
maintain balance and showgratitude. And also, there's a
little dose of superstition inthere as well, if you didn't
(07:14):
say, do a offering to the gods,and something bad might happen,
or your craps might fail, orthat kind of thing. So that's
very much part of it. And alsocommunity and kinship were
vital. So ritual strength andbonds within a tribe and these
kind of comings together wouldvery much be part of their life,
(07:37):
really, and living andbreathing.
And thank you that. How do youthink they use those rituals to
foster a sense of community in ain a collective way,
I guess, because it's theritualistic fact. So humans, we
(07:58):
like, we like ritual. Don't welike we like things. So if it's
like, you know, we think aboutwe've just had Christmas, for
example, and we like to knowwhat's coming each year. And I
think as part of that, you wouldhave these communal events,
which often involved feasting,storytelling, shared offerings,
(08:19):
music, dancing, that kind ofthing, which we still see today,
actually, but that theyreinforced kind of like a shared
identity, I guess, not just tothe tribe and the community, but
also to their ancestors. So theywere always about the past, the
present and the future. So thepast would be looking back and
(08:40):
reflecting on the year that'sgone, or their ancestors the
present, like what's happeningright now we're celebrating, or
we're giving thanks, or we'redoing an offering, and then
looking forward what's comingdown the line. What can we
expect? What can we celebratethat we're going to look forward
to, whether it be summer or, youknow, good harvest, or whatever
that might be. So, yeah, I thinkit's all about really using
(09:05):
rituals to foster that communityand passing on their identity,
so that, you know, talks aboutthis, the storytelling and the
oral traditions, a lot of thatis how the culture was passed
on, because, you know, theyweren't writing things down at
this stage, and you know,historically, they might not
have had that ability, althoughyou see things passed on through
(09:31):
symbolism. So there'll be a lotof Celtic images and symbols
that you would see. But really,it's, it's, it's creating that
collective narrative. To kind ofstrengthen bonds and preserve
the tradition, really, I wouldsay,
Hmm, do I think we've touched onthis in another aspect. But do
you think that act of honoringancestors and the dead was more
(09:54):
about respect fear ormaintaining a sense of
continuity? Yeah?
I think it's a bit, a bit of allof those. I think it was
important to show respect forthe ancestors. Is, I mean, Sal
Wayne is just really like onegreat big wake, you know, it's,
it's the veil fins, and it's achance to kind of pay respects.
(10:17):
You might think about peopleyou've lost that year. It might
be, you might go back furtherand just kind of pay reverence
to your ancestors and how yourtribe or your community evolved.
So that's very much about thatrespect and gratitude. But then
there was also a dose of fear, Iguess, around the superstitions
so things like, you know,leaving out a carved, well,
(10:41):
actually, carved tonic or Swede,to ward away the evil spirits.
Because if the veils thin, thenyou know you're going to get
spirits, and not all of them arefriendly. So you want to be able
to connect with your ancestors,but also keep away anything, any
nasty, I guess, unfriendlyspirits and that kind of thing.
(11:01):
So that's where the kind of thefear, I would say, comes into
it. And then I guess, is thatagain, coming back to that
cultural identity and the wisdomthey're passing on through these
traditions. And it's guess thatconnection to, I guess, the
bridge between the livingelements of of the Celtic
traditions, like the farming andthe practical stuff, and then
(11:23):
the spiritual side of things,which we very much see with
birth, life, death, marriage,hand fasting, all those kinds of
things. I mean, it's, it'sreally hard, because to talk
about helps in a podcast likethis. It's fantastic. But
really, I guess you either gomile wide, inch deep, or you
could pick one topic, and wecould go a mile deep on, you
(11:46):
know, something niche, like justtalking about Saint Patrick's
Day, or just talking about thetradition of marriage, or those
kinds of things. So there's alot to cover. Yeah,
I understand, I understand we'retouching the topic today, maybe
you can come back and and whatwe get demands for we can talk
about in further in depth. So,okay, so how about storytelling
(12:12):
and myth? Because that thatplays a part in the cultic
traditions, doesn't it? Is therea What's the reason behind that?
Do you mean a lot, a lot of thekind of storytelling and the
myths would revolve around, Iguess, some of the the Celtic
deities as well. So, you know,I've talked about Anya, which is
(12:33):
my favorite goddess. You've got,you know, Bridget, and you've
got, oh, I mean, there's loadsand loads of Celtic gods. So
there'd be stories told aboutthem. And like, in the same way,
you'd hear about Romans talkingabout their gods, or Greeks
talking about their gods,Vikings, again, you know, Odin
and all these kinds of things.
They're all kind of branches ofthe same kind of belief system
where you've got these pagandeities that tend to connect
(12:56):
with the land, like I saidbefore, whether it be the trees
or the rivers or the sun or themoon and so all this because was
kind of, we weaved into the thestories that they would tell, as
well as their own personalstories. Of you know how their
landscape was shaped. And so,for example, in Scotland, you
(13:21):
would hear the stories of thecalyac and how the mountains and
the and the veils of thehighlands and were kind of
carved by her well, her woodenstaff. And when she would shape
nature with the with the snowand those kinds of things. So
(13:42):
all these kind of stories wouldbe told around the fire, and,
and, and, I guess this, I mean,there's so many facets to it.
Even within the Celtictraditions of just the British
Isles and Ireland and Scotlandand Wales, you've got so many
different words for all thesethings. Actually, one of the
most fascinating places I'vebeen to around relating to all
(14:04):
of this is the Isle of Man.
There's so much to go and seethere that that's still intact.
So if you're a big fan of druidsites and kind of investigating
some of this and symbolism,definitely go to the Isle of
Man, because it's there's somereally cool kind of, I guess,
landmarks and heritage sitesthat that picks up on all of
(14:26):
this. But, yeah, I feel like I'mmaybe repeating some stuff, but
it's, yeah, it's all about,really, that connection to the
land. I'd say, Phillipa,yeah. Oh, absolutely. It's fine.
I think it's good to reinforceit and link everything back
together again, especially forthose of us that don't have as
much knowledge. I mean, myancestry is Welsh, but I only
(14:48):
have a small amount of knowledgeon this, which is why I'm so
interested. And I appreciate youcoming to talk to us. I
apologize for marmalade tryingto get. On the podcast.
Why do you think so, if we moveon to you're talking about
symbols. Why do you think trees,especially oak and you held such
powerful symbolism in the Celtictradition? Was it a practical
(15:10):
reason or a deeper connection?
Um, I guess it is. Is it there'sa spiritual connection there, so
that they very much kind of sawtrees as living entities, which
is what was kind of talkingabout before. And you've
probably seen the images of thetree with the roots going into
(15:33):
the ground and that kind ofthing, like the tree of life.
And it was seen as connectingthe heavens to the earth and the
underworld as well. And thenyou've got symbolism for
specific types of trees. So theoak is very much about strength
and wisdom. The yew tree isassociated with death and
rebirth, if you and the yew treewas actually used a lot sacred
(15:58):
druid sites. So the monks, forexample, and and druids would
would lie under you trees. Andso when you've got the sun
hitting the branches and the theberries, you would almost get
like they could get high off it,and they would have visions, and
they would have spiritualjourneys from, from kind of the
(16:23):
essence of of of the yew tree.
Um, it's interesting one. Youshould have a look at it. And
what you'll find is because theywere sacred trees on sacred
sites. A lot of tree a lot ofchurches were built on these
druid sites. So almost always,if you go to a graveyard, you'll
see you trees, and that'sbecause on our church yards,
you'll see you trees, and that'sbecause they've invariably
(16:44):
predate the church, and churcheswere built on those sacred sites
because and that connection todeath as well. You'll see them
in in churchyards.
Oh, wow, that's reallyinteresting. And what about the
wells and springs in Celticcustoms as well. Yeah. So again,
that they these were often notjust sources of, you know,
(17:08):
essential life force that iswater. They were seen as a
sacred spaces. They wouldsometimes have rituals at the
site of the water or the spring.
If a new spring was found, itwould have to be celebrated
with, you know, some kind ofblessing or ritual. Is it, you
know, very much, very muchconnected to the source, really,
I think we've, we've, we'vealmost lost some of this,
(17:32):
haven't we? And I think it's, Ialmost think recently, I've seen
a real revival in peoplebecoming interested in again,
and we're seeing a massiveincrease in people, some you
know, people joining things likereligions like paganism and
Wiccan, but also people notreally attaching themselves to a
specific religion as such, butjust celebrating the wheel More.
(17:54):
So I'm connected to a communityorganization and who are putting
on events around the wheel, andwe're seeing a lot of people
coming to these celebrationswith their families, with their
children, to join in andcelebrate like Beltane or sor
Wayne in the traditional ways,but not necessarily with any
(18:16):
kind of previous connection toany kind of pagan type religion,
they're just interested in it.
Again, I think people arelooking for that connection and
and community, and that'slovely, really. Mm, yeah, must
say, I've been to one of thoseevents, which is where I've I've
met you, and it was very lovely.
(18:37):
Yeah, very nice. So, I guesssomething that I have a question
as well is the sacrifices. Youspoke about giving to the land,
the giving and taking, but therewere sacrifices, and what? What
was the symbolism behind them?
Reallywell, you often see, so if
you're looking media and TV,you'll see these sacrifices are
(19:01):
always kind of, I guess they'resensationalized. You'll see that
like if you watch Vikings, forexample, which is, you know,
shows a lot of elements of ofpagan belief systems. It shows
quite goy detail and that kindof thing. And I think one,
that's sensationalized, and two,looking more towards the cult
(19:24):
side of things. While some ofthose practices did happen, they
were done in a very respectfulway, and it was very much about,
again, this whole balance ofgiving back to the land, for
example, in Sao a when, youknow, they'd bring the sheep
down from the pastures andthey'd light fires, they'd
(19:44):
invariably sacrifice, say, a ramor a goat or something like
that. Want to give thanks forthe harvest, and also for
superstitious elements to makesure that they had a good
winter. You. And that the winterwasn't too unkind to them, and
and then that that RAM, or thatthat goat would would be, would
(20:05):
invariably be consumed by thecommunity as part of the
feasting, as part of thecelebrations, and that kind of
thing. So it wasn't just kind oflike this wasted, spilt blood
type thing. And sometimes thesacrifices were not, you know,
the death of an animal at all.
They would sometimes be, youknow, you'd leave out some
(20:28):
bread, or, you know, for thegods, or you'd leave so many
pieces of fruit on the tree forthe gods, or, you know, or for
the animals and that kind ofthing. So you would never take
everything. And I think that'sone of the running themes as
well. When it comes to theCelts, when harvesting, they
wouldn't say apples, theywouldn't strip the entire tree.
(20:49):
They'd always leave one or twofor for nature or for the gods.
Thank you. In terms of, say, Idon't know if you know anything
about how they all organized. Imean, now it's slightly
different, but how it wasorganized in terms of when
running celebrations, orgenerally, for example, were
(21:11):
there people that tended to leadgroups?
Yeah, you'd have your communityleaders. You'd have your
spiritual leaders. Druids andSears were were seen as kind of
like intellectual spiritualleaders in Celtic society. They
would be knowledgeable, and Iguess, was seen as mediators
(21:35):
between the mortal and thedivine. They'd often be seen as
having a gift. They would oftenguide people with decisions and
that kind of thing, and be verymuch at the heart of these big
community celebrations. I'mquite sure. You know, it was
very much like it today, youknow, with with women,
(21:55):
invariably doing lots of cookingand preparing foods and and men,
you know, maybe putting upmakeshift gazebos, type tents,
you know, how to explain it, butthey would do. Everybody would
be involved, and everyone wouldhave their role to play. And
there would be leaders andelders of the community that
would be very much at the heartof the organizing, which is kind
(22:17):
of what you see today, even likewhen I was talking about the
events at the borough, you know,we, we very much come together
as a team, and everyone's kindof got the strengths and
weaknesses, and it just fitslike a jigsaw. And and then we
all bring different aspects ofknowledge or the spiritual to
some celebrations and, and Iguess it wasn't that much
different to that, to be fair,Phillipa and, and I think that
(22:40):
wisdom and that sense ofreverence and respecting your
elders was so crucial. And Ithink that's another thing we've
sadly lost. And I think part ofthat's down to displaced ways
that we live now as the familyunits. You know, you'd very much
all stay together as a family inthe same village, in the same
community, whereas now we're allover the place. You know, I'm
(23:01):
from Manchester originally, andlive down here in Surrey, and my
daughter's in Newcastle, and myfamily's up in Huddersfield and
Manchester, and I think we'vekind of lost that. So I think, I
think there's definitely a needfor more of that community
again, where we have elders heldaloft and respected and and that
(23:24):
kind of thing. But yeah,probably go off at tangent
again.
No, no, that's brilliant. Imean, I think that's what's sort
of coming round. I mean, in theprevious podcast, we've spoken
about animism and Aline from wewent very much into the
scientific world, and we'removing a little bit more back
into communities and into thisworld, as you spoke about
(23:44):
earlier, and so more peopleshowing up at your events makes
perfect sense of where we are,and that's why I think it's very
important that we talk moreabout and talk about these
things so people can understandthem more. Because there may be
people out there that are moreinterested now in this topic and
want to look into it further,because they, too, are looking
for a sense of community. Iguess. You know, we're pretty
(24:09):
much there, and I reallyappreciate the time. So just to
finish off, I wonder if there'sone key lesson you think we
could take from the Celts, whatwould it be? If there was one,
I would say it's, it's theimportance of kind of living in
in that harmony, and not seeingourselves as separate to the
(24:31):
that, you know, everything elsethere's like, quite often we're
as humans, and we consume, andthen there's everything else and
how it meets our needs. Andactually we should. We shouldn't
be in the center with all thisrevolve around us. We should all
be part of that as a whole. Andso just just taking some more
time to think about how we giveback to the land, to our
(24:56):
community, to each other, Ithink. That's really important,
and try and have a look forlocal events in your area. I
mean, today, for example, I meanwe talked about Celtic
celebrations, but today, I'mtrying to remember the name of
Oh. It says today is no lagmaBam, which is women's Christmas
(25:17):
in the Celtic tradition. So it'snot actually a pagan festival.
It's just a Celtic celebration,specifically to Ireland and
related to epiphany, which istoday, and it was women's
Christmas, and it was all aboutwomen having a day of rest after
all the efforts of Christmastime and Yul time, and
(25:38):
connecting with the friends, thegirly friends and all the women
that they love, and just havinga day off and and chilling out.
And I think so there's so manydifferent lovely festivals. I
think it would be good for us tokind of look at, look around us,
and see what, see what's on inyour local area. Connect to
organizations that are kind ofputting on events. If you look,
(26:01):
I will give you the link. Youcan share it, but there's a
directory, for example, ofwasserling events coming up. So
the next week or so, you'll seelots of wasserling events, where
people are dancing, runningaround orchards and and wishing
for good things for the year. Soyeah, look, look out for events
in your area, and really try andconnect and to the land and the
(26:23):
community and nature. Really, Ithink that would be it in a
nutshell.
Oh, that's wonderful. Well,thank you so much, meesh. We're
going to add all the notes belowin the description your
Instagram and some of the thingsthat you've mentioned today in
the events link that you justmentioned there we can add as
well. So I really appreciate youcoming in, informing all the
(26:44):
listeners about the Celtictraditions, and hopefully we'll
have you back on in the futureas well, so we'll see what, what
everyone resonates with in inthe topic, and we can dive
deeper next timeit says, it's so broad, isn't
it? But um, thank you for havingme. It's been nice to have a
letter. Hope I didn't go off ontoo many sentences. No,
definitely not. Thank you.
Applause.
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