August 10, 2025 • 8 mins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Seven past ten, five double A on a Monday morning.
Lots of reaction and follow up to Health Minister Chris
Picton's visit to the studio. If you would like to
follow up on that, we'd like to hear from you.
Eight double two to three double. We'll get to the
text and your calls a little bit later on in
the morning. But on Sky News this evening they're premiering
an exclusive one hour program, The War Canet, presented by
(00:22):
award winning journalist and Sky News political contributor Chris Yulman.
He joins me in our Chris, good morning to you,
giy Graham. What's prompted this particular special.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Well, I think all of us have seen that Australia
lives in difficult times and we're now caught between our
major training partner in China and our major ally the
United States, and what is a strategic struggle in our region.
There's a lot of debate about whether or not Australia
is stepping up and doing enough on defense spending. And
if we were spending money, we're obviously spending a lot
of it on Southern Marines. Are we spending enough on
(00:56):
it now? When the problem would appear to be or
the threat may well come in the next couple of
years rather than the next ten or fifteen years. So
we gathered together a group of people who've got real
experience in this area form of labor. Defense Minister Josh
has given Alexander down obviously well known to Adelaide audience,
the longest serving foreign minister, and a group of others
and nine people all up who've worked in defense, intelligence,
(01:19):
security for their entire lives to talk about what is
perhaps the most consequential conversation of our era.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
There's no question that it's probably a time of most
or more instability in the world than there's been four decades.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, that's right, and it's not just obviously our region,
but we feel the repercussions of what's happening around the world,
and we have seen the growth of an alliance and
access if you like, between Russia, China, Iran and North Korea,
and they are endeavoring to make the world a safer
place for autocracies in the twenty first century and to
bend the world to their will and to overturn the
(01:56):
settlement we've essentially seen that's run since the Second World
War and of course, at the same time, we've got
a more mercurial United States under Donald Trump. So we're
living in genuinely interesting times as the Chinese curse goes.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, well, I mean we always looked at America. Is
that ally that would always be there? But we can't
feel that secure at the moment, can we?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
No. I think that the change in the administration in
the White House does raise a lot of questions. There's
clearly real tension with the alban Easy government, and part
of that obviously is the fault of the White House,
but also partly, I think because the alb and Easy
government has seen some domestic political advantage in trying to
distance itself from Donald Trump. At the same time as
(02:39):
courses it tries to settle things with China, and I
think it believes it's staying largely silent about what China's
doing is good diplomacy because it kind of buys a
superficial piece. But you know, Beijing is preparing for war.
It's rapidly expanding its navy, it's air force, it's missile arsenal,
It's already planted virtual bombs on our critical infrastructure, and
it stopped food, fuel and critical minerals to ensure it
(03:02):
can stand alone in a prolonged conflict. So there is
real reason to be concerned in our region, and I
guess also reason to be concerned about what the United
States might do if there was a conflict, particularly over Timelan.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Donald Trump's effectively said to the Western world, you know,
increase your defense spending, and he's targeted Australia as one
of those. Is that an issue of real concern?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
It is an issue of real concern in Australia should
be spending more on defense, not because the United States
is demanding that we do it, but because the times
are demanding that we do it. And I guess if
there's one thing that comes out of that, there's two themes,
sure that they come out of our walk cabinet. That's
a failure to rapidly respond to the signs of the
times and complacency. And part of that complaintsency is because
the government really doesn't want to talk about the threat
(03:47):
that China poses. And while it's boldly asserting it's independence
from Donald Trump, you know, we're quietly still sheltering beneath
America's security umbrellas. So it's a peculiar posture. Really, the
Australia has at the moment defied in words, dependent indeed
and not doing enough in terms of its own defense.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And this is a concern, isn't it. I mean, as
I said, well, you had this cozy relationship where America
would always be there for us, but all of a sudden,
it's not so secure. It's not such a certain world
as it was before.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
And a good government obviously hopes for the best. Nobody
wants a war. Everyone hopes for peace, and the plumcy
is always the best option. But sometimes nations don't get
a choice. Sometimes you have to fight, and a wise
government plans for those kinds of times. There are the
times in which we live. And if you to look
at what ch Jing Ping has told his own military,
(04:38):
it's on the public record. He wants it to be prepared,
if not to do it, but to be prepared to
take Taiwan by force in twenty twenty seven. If that's
the timeline, then we have very very little time to prepare,
and we've squandered an enormous amount of time because these
warnings have been around for a very long time.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Indeed, lots of cost pressures on a statia national debts
at record levels and heading towards the Trijian dollar mark.
Can we afford to increased defense spending?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Well, the question is whether we have to increase defense spending.
There are a couple of questions in fact, and whether
or not if we did increase defense spending now Defense
Department would be able to deliver the kind of kit
that we need in order to be as secure as
quickly as possible, because it has a pretty rocky record
when it comes to delivering on the money that the
government gives us now. But I think that we can
(05:30):
see reading what's going on in the rest of the world,
looking at the builds up in China, that we need
to be doing more than we're doing at the moment,
and we need to prepare quickly for a conflict that
might come and not forgetting And we always forget this,
and it's pointed out by one of our panelists, Jennifer Parker,
from a naval officer and a maritime expert. You know
you don't have to and no one expects that Australia
would be attacked for it to be under threat. We
(05:52):
can be cut off by sea and if there is
a conflict in our region. We should expect that all
of those supplies that we get at the moment Vice
Sea will dry up, and you know, we would run
out of fuel in Australia within a fortnight. We refine
almost none of the stuff ourselves, and we don't hold
any reserves. Those are the sorts of things we should
be looking at.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
It would be fair to say that ORCUS would take
up some time of the wart discussion.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
It does, and there's a lot of conversation about the submarine,
the submarine build and whether or not we are spending
too much time and effort on something that will arrive
over the horizon, and whether or not that is derailing
some of the spending that's going on at the moment
that should be going on to get us ready in
the near termament. And there are obviously different opinions about that,
(06:37):
and you know, you see that in conversation all the
time in defense circles about whether or not that's the
right core. I think that most of our panel agrees
it's good to have that capacity, and it's good to
have nuclear submarines, but that that shouldn't distract us from
getting ready now. As again, Jennifer Parker says we should
be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Us slightly aside from your war cab that I'm reminded
of an article you wrote some time agoin this is
related to defense spending, where a huge amount of our
defense spending is tied up in administration comparing and you
compared what the US Defense secretary controlling a one point
four trillion dollar budget compared to Australia's counterpart controlling a
(07:21):
budget of less than sixty billion.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah. Look, and I think that Luke, you could run
a rule over the entire Australian bureaucracy at the moment
and come up with the same answer. We have the
highest paid bureaucracy on Earth. You know, some of the
heads of our departments are clearing around about a million
dollars a year. Their counterparts around the world make nothing
like that kind of money. And you do have to
wonder whether we are getting value for money. And dare
(07:46):
I say that because of where the settings of the
Australian public service wages are, particularly for the people who
run departments. You can see that replicated around Australia. I
don't know that we get good value for money out
of our public service, and we certainly don't get good
value for money out of our Department of Defense. And interestingly,
I think that the Defense Minister, Richard Miles is having
a long hard look at the department now and is
(08:07):
going to put it under a lot more pressure to
deliver on the money that it already gets from the
Australian government.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well, Chris, this is going to be a fascinating special
tonight the War Cabinet and as you've said, getting together
military leaders, former ministers, defense specialists, it should give us
a pretty good insight into where a strator is and
where we should be into the future.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, Grayam. Thing we have to do is have a
conversation and so this is part.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Of that excellent good on you, great chat. That's Chris Yulman,
Sky News Political contributor tonight seven point thirty on Sky News,
The War Cabinet five Double A Mornings with Graham Goodings
Seven past ten, five double A on a Monday morning.
Lots of reaction and follow up to Health Minister Chris
Picton's visit to the studio. If you would like to
follow up on that, we'd like to hear from you.
Eight double two to three double. We'll get to the
text and your calls a little bit later on in
the morning. But on Sky News this evening they're premiering
an exclusive one hour program, The War Canet, presented by
(00:22):
award winning journalist and Sky News political contributor Chris Yulman.
He joins me in our Chris, good morning to you,
giy Graham. What's prompted this particular special.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Well, I think all of us have seen that Australia
lives in difficult times and we're now caught between our
major training partner in China and our major ally the
United States, and what is a strategic struggle in our region.
There's a lot of debate about whether or not Australia
is stepping up and doing enough on defense spending. And
if we were spending money, we're obviously spending a lot
of it on Southern Marines. Are we spending enough on
(00:56):
it now? When the problem would appear to be or
the threat may well come in the next couple of
years rather than the next ten or fifteen years. So
we gathered together a group of people who've got real
experience in this area form of labor. Defense Minister Josh
has given Alexander down obviously well known to Adelaide audience,
the longest serving foreign minister, and a group of others
and nine people all up who've worked in defense, intelligence,
(01:19):
security for their entire lives to talk about what is
perhaps the most consequential conversation of our era.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
There's no question that it's probably a time of most
or more instability in the world than there's been four decades.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, that's right, and it's not just obviously our region,
but we feel the repercussions of what's happening around the world,
and we have seen the growth of an alliance and
access if you like, between Russia, China, Iran and North Korea,
and they are endeavoring to make the world a safer
place for autocracies in the twenty first century and to
bend the world to their will and to overturn the
(01:56):
settlement we've essentially seen that's run since the Second World
War and of course, at the same time, we've got
a more mercurial United States under Donald Trump. So we're
living in genuinely interesting times as the Chinese curse goes.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, well, I mean we always looked at America. Is
that ally that would always be there? But we can't
feel that secure at the moment, can we?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
No. I think that the change in the administration in
the White House does raise a lot of questions. There's
clearly real tension with the alban Easy government, and part
of that obviously is the fault of the White House,
but also partly, I think because the alb and Easy
government has seen some domestic political advantage in trying to
distance itself from Donald Trump. At the same time as
(02:39):
courses it tries to settle things with China, and I
think it believes it's staying largely silent about what China's
doing is good diplomacy because it kind of buys a
superficial piece. But you know, Beijing is preparing for war.
It's rapidly expanding its navy, it's air force, it's missile arsenal,
It's already planted virtual bombs on our critical infrastructure, and
it stopped food, fuel and critical minerals to ensure it
(03:02):
can stand alone in a prolonged conflict. So there is
real reason to be concerned in our region, and I
guess also reason to be concerned about what the United
States might do if there was a conflict, particularly over Timelan.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Donald Trump's effectively said to the Western world, you know,
increase your defense spending, and he's targeted Australia as one
of those. Is that an issue of real concern?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
It is an issue of real concern in Australia should
be spending more on defense, not because the United States
is demanding that we do it, but because the times
are demanding that we do it. And I guess if
there's one thing that comes out of that, there's two themes,
sure that they come out of our walk cabinet. That's
a failure to rapidly respond to the signs of the
times and complacency. And part of that complaintsency is because
the government really doesn't want to talk about the threat
(03:47):
that China poses. And while it's boldly asserting it's independence
from Donald Trump, you know, we're quietly still sheltering beneath
America's security umbrellas. So it's a peculiar posture. Really, the
Australia has at the moment defied in words, dependent indeed
and not doing enough in terms of its own defense.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And this is a concern, isn't it. I mean, as
I said, well, you had this cozy relationship where America
would always be there for us, but all of a sudden,
it's not so secure. It's not such a certain world
as it was before.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
And a good government obviously hopes for the best. Nobody
wants a war. Everyone hopes for peace, and the plumcy
is always the best option. But sometimes nations don't get
a choice. Sometimes you have to fight, and a wise
government plans for those kinds of times. There are the
times in which we live. And if you to look
at what ch Jing Ping has told his own military,
(04:38):
it's on the public record. He wants it to be prepared,
if not to do it, but to be prepared to
take Taiwan by force in twenty twenty seven. If that's
the timeline, then we have very very little time to prepare,
and we've squandered an enormous amount of time because these
warnings have been around for a very long time.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Indeed, lots of cost pressures on a statia national debts
at record levels and heading towards the Trijian dollar mark.
Can we afford to increased defense spending?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Well, the question is whether we have to increase defense spending.
There are a couple of questions in fact, and whether
or not if we did increase defense spending now Defense
Department would be able to deliver the kind of kit
that we need in order to be as secure as
quickly as possible, because it has a pretty rocky record
when it comes to delivering on the money that the
government gives us now. But I think that we can
(05:30):
see reading what's going on in the rest of the world,
looking at the builds up in China, that we need
to be doing more than we're doing at the moment,
and we need to prepare quickly for a conflict that
might come and not forgetting And we always forget this,
and it's pointed out by one of our panelists, Jennifer Parker,
from a naval officer and a maritime expert. You know
you don't have to and no one expects that Australia
would be attacked for it to be under threat. We
(05:52):
can be cut off by sea and if there is
a conflict in our region. We should expect that all
of those supplies that we get at the moment Vice
Sea will dry up, and you know, we would run
out of fuel in Australia within a fortnight. We refine
almost none of the stuff ourselves, and we don't hold
any reserves. Those are the sorts of things we should
be looking at.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
It would be fair to say that ORCUS would take
up some time of the wart discussion.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
It does, and there's a lot of conversation about the submarine,
the submarine build and whether or not we are spending
too much time and effort on something that will arrive
over the horizon, and whether or not that is derailing
some of the spending that's going on at the moment
that should be going on to get us ready in
the near termament. And there are obviously different opinions about that,
(06:37):
and you know, you see that in conversation all the
time in defense circles about whether or not that's the
right core. I think that most of our panel agrees
it's good to have that capacity, and it's good to
have nuclear submarines, but that that shouldn't distract us from
getting ready now. As again, Jennifer Parker says we should
be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Us slightly aside from your war cab that I'm reminded
of an article you wrote some time agoin this is
related to defense spending, where a huge amount of our
defense spending is tied up in administration comparing and you
compared what the US Defense secretary controlling a one point
four trillion dollar budget compared to Australia's counterpart controlling a
(07:21):
budget of less than sixty billion.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah. Look, and I think that Luke, you could run
a rule over the entire Australian bureaucracy at the moment
and come up with the same answer. We have the
highest paid bureaucracy on Earth. You know, some of the
heads of our departments are clearing around about a million
dollars a year. Their counterparts around the world make nothing
like that kind of money. And you do have to
wonder whether we are getting value for money. And dare
(07:46):
I say that because of where the settings of the
Australian public service wages are, particularly for the people who
run departments. You can see that replicated around Australia. I
don't know that we get good value for money out
of our public service, and we certainly don't get good
value for money out of our Department of Defense. And interestingly,
I think that the Defense Minister, Richard Miles is having
a long hard look at the department now and is
(08:07):
going to put it under a lot more pressure to
deliver on the money that it already gets from the
Australian government.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well, Chris, this is going to be a fascinating special
tonight the War Cabinet and as you've said, getting together
military leaders, former ministers, defense specialists, it should give us
a pretty good insight into where a strator is and
where we should be into the future.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, Grayam. Thing we have to do is have a
conversation and so this is part.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Of that excellent good on you, great chat. That's Chris Yulman,
Sky News Political contributor tonight seven point thirty on Sky News,
The War Cabinet five Double A Mornings with Graham Goodings
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