Mornings with Graeme Goodings - 13 June 2025

Ben Downie, Richard de Crespigny, Rex Patrick, Robert Farnan, Connie Bonaros, Bruce Mountain, Jessica Genauer, Emily Bourke, Danielle Einstein and your calls. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, Welcome to Friday, June the thirteenth. Friday the thirteenth,
Do you have any superstitions? Or for years we don't
seem to mention as much as we did in the
past once upon a time, Friday the thirteenth, Oh, don't
want to get out of bed. Don't walk under a ladder.
Be you know, on the lookout for black cats walking
across in front of your path. Have we got over
our superstitions or are you still still superstitious? Let's know

(00:23):
what you think. Eight double two three double o double
o is the number to ring. Well. Of course, the
big story today, the horrific story of the day, was
the crash of that Air India flight, claiming the lives
of all on board except one man. A remarkable story. Indeed,
here's the brother of the man who survived the Air
India flight.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
It was on the runway more than my dad called
him and I said, oh, we're going to take off soon,
and then literally l two minutes leo. He video called
my dad as he crushed. He said, our teens crushed
all that. I don't know what my brother is. I
don't see live how I exited the plane. I mean
you can say the stale my mom well, just I

(01:07):
won no words.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
To describe it.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
This is a miracle piece about what other miracles from others.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Just hearing about this.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Crush, I'm scared to fly now, just to even say
on a plane.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Now, two hundred and forty one people died aboard the flight.
Just that one man survived. Approximately another fifty died on
the ground. Still not any resolution as to why the
plane crashed. We'll be speaking with Ben Danny seven News
European correspondent for the absolute latest on the crash. But
this is what the India CEO, Campbell Wilson had to say.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Are India Flight AI one seven to one, operated with
the Boeing seven eight seven Dash eight aircraft traveling from
Ahmedabad to London Getwick, has been involved in an accident
after takeoff. Flight AI one seven one was carrying two
hundred thirty passengers and twelve crew members on board. Of
the passengers one hundred and sixty nine Indian nationals fifty

(02:09):
three British nationals. There are seven Portuguese nationals and one
Canadian national. A special team of caregivers from Air India
is on their way to Ahmedabad to provide additional support.
We know that many people are concerned for the welfare
of their loved ones. We have set up a special
helpline that friends and family can reach us at.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
That's Air India CEO Campbell Wilson providing an update on
the crash of Air India flight out of Hmmandabad and
as I said, we'll have the latest from Ben Darney.
We'll also speak with former quantits pilet Richard de Crapperty
on what could have gone wrong. I don't know if
you've seen the vision, but the plane looked like was
quite normal taking off but didn't gain altitude and after

(02:53):
I don't know the distance that have traveled, crashed into
the ground into a highly residential area. But we'll find
out the more more about that as the day progresses.
Also today, the Orcus submarine project is definitely under threat.
America under Donald Trump is saying that we want to
make sure that everything we do is putting America first.

(03:16):
We will review the Orcus plan. The project once dubbed
by former Prime Minister Paul Keating the worst deal in
all history. A longtime critic has been former Senator and
sub mariner Rex Patrick and we'll also speak with Rex
about that a little bit later on. Speaking of controversial issues,
the Walker tarwer has been approved. What are your thoughts

(03:37):
about that? It's going to be a huge economic injection,
The premier says economic activity one billion dollars, thirteen hundred
people working while the building is created. But there's been
a huge blowback. It has been approved. But we'll speak
with say Festival Plaza's alliance Robert Farland to see if
the battle has been lost or is there any more

(03:59):
they can do. I want to ask the question today
should pepper spray be legal in southa Stratia. The caps
con spray, you know, the one sprayed in the face.
It disarms you. It randers you were incapable of pretty
much doing anything. It is seen as a defense, particularly
for women who are under attack. It has always been

(04:20):
a banned substance in this state. Why it comes to
mind is that the Northern Territory is about to make
pepper spray legal. It's already legal in Western Australia and
it has been for twenty five years. So we asked
the question, would you feel safer if you were able
to carry a can of pepper spray in your wallet

(04:41):
or purse. Do you think it would be dangerous? It
could be turned against you. We'll find out some thoughts
on that. SASMLC Connie Bnarus has long been a supporter
of legalizing pepper spray, and we'll speak with her about that.
I like to know your opinion to eight double two
three double O double OW and virtual power plants. I
was talking about this yesterday that you need to be very,

(05:03):
very careful. What is a virtual power plant? We'll find
out exactly what it is. Yesterday I told you of
the cautionary tale about a consumer by the name of
Peter Anderson who joined agl's virtual power plant scheme in
twenty twenty one. He received a one thousand dollars discount
for allowing AGL to access his battery, but a year
in he was shifted to a complex demand tariff. We're

(05:26):
using grid power during peak times, triggered steep monthly charges. Meanwhile,
AGL was draining his battery aggressively, leaving him relied on
expensive grid energy. Peter's bill sword he left the program.
AGL denies fully depleting batteries, but Peter says otherwise. Now,
if you're in the VPP check your bills might be
working for you, but make sure that you're on the

(05:49):
positive side of the ledger And we'll find out more
about VPPs from Victorian Energy Policy SETER Director Professor Bruce Martin.
Winter warming you do to keep warm over winter?

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Well?

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Heater fires are on the rise, as they are always
at this time of year. We'll speak with Emergency Services
Minister Emily burkhamout that. And how do you feel about
sitting in a cafe having a nice quiet coffee, reading
the paper and then someone at the next table starts
a long and loud conversation on their phone, imposing on

(06:26):
your space, Or you look at across at another table
there are two or three people sitting there. Not a
word is spoken, but they're eye deep in their phones
and there's no interaction between them. Their phones are their livelihoods.
How would you like to see a space in a
cafe where phones were banned cafes it's offline, you can't

(06:48):
use your phone. Well, it's going to happen, not unilaterally,
but there is going to be an offline cafe in Adelaide.
You think it's a good IDEA eight double two to
three double double is my number, all that and much
more and your love to hear from you and our
text line zero double four eight zero eight thirteen ninety
five five double.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
A Mornings with Graham Goodings.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Nineteen past nine five double A on this Friday the thirteenth,
hope we find you well well. Shocking news overnight with
the News and Air India passenger plane bound for London
with two hundred and forty two people on board, crashed
into a medical college after takeoff from the city of Ahmedabad.
A single passenger miraculously survived the crash. The airline said
there were no other survivors. Ben Downey is seven's News

(07:32):
European correspondent, and he joins us, Now, Ben, what do
we know about the crash.

Speaker 5 (07:37):
I've quite astonishing aviation point in history. Really at this point,
as many as two hundred and ninety people dead, likely
more two hundred forty one of those worked passengers and
crew aboard this Air India flight ALI one seventy one
that abart it yesterday from Metabad in India, northwestern India,

(08:00):
failed to maintain altitude. Shortly asked to take off there,
it fell into a residential area. Only around two hundred
meters away, killing two hunred and forty one the two
hundred and forty two people on board, dozens more on
the ground in this residential area and injuring fifty further.
But you can probably hear from what I'm about to
say is that one person has miraculously divived. This a

(08:23):
man who was seated at eleven A an emergency exit row,
that he was placed there by crew just shortly before
take off. His name is vishwash Kumar Ramesh, a British
Man who was on board with his brother and was
able to exit the emergency exit shortly before the plane crashed.
He then video called his family from the crash zone,

(08:45):
but sadly was not able to find his brother. So
his family is now dealing with a mixture of sort
of heartache and elation that one of their brothers has
died or the other had miraculously survived. But the families
of the two hundred and eighty nine other victims, it
is a very very tragic day.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
It's a horrific scene, There's no question about that. Has
there been any light shed on on how the crash happened?

Speaker 5 (09:11):
Only the subject and amongst staviation experts, so the outset
will say that the investigation into this is only and
at the infancy it's being assisted by British transport authorities
Boeing as well, and of course the Indian transport authorities.

Speaker 6 (09:25):
But there is.

Speaker 5 (09:26):
There are a couple of theories here and the most
predominant one is that in this footage you can actually
that you can see of this plane that captures the
entire takeoff until the crash, and the fireball landing gear
never attracts us into the airplane's body, and the experts
are saying, by the time it's reaching several hundred meters
into the air, that should absolutely be happening. But more importantly,

(09:47):
the flaps on board the wings of this Bowing seven
eight to seven Dreamliner don't appear to be active or
moving at all. And when you have they say, a
planeload full of passengers plus a plane, they have a
full petrol tank, and you have the temperature outside, which
is one of the most incredible, most important fact in
the thirty seven degrees celsius. If those flaps in the

(10:11):
wings aren't operating effectively, then the plane can't maintain altitude.
That's what you see in this footage. You see this
plane take off, begin to rise and then fail to
generate enough thrust to continue to rise, only for it
to fall. So whether that is mechanical faults, whether that
is pilot error is currently the subject of investigation, and
it could be easily something else, but it's still very

(10:33):
much of the moment the subject of investigation.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Will there any distress calls before the crash, Yes.

Speaker 5 (10:40):
There was the call very quickly. In the mayday call,
the pilot complains about or reports not being able to
achieve thrust. Surely after that air traffic control messaging agent back,
but there's no response. And also in this you can
hear from that survivor, Dishwash Kamaramesh. He talks about hearing

(11:05):
a large bang on the aircraft before it suddenly starts
to descend. There's no smoke from any of the engines.
That they don't believe it to be anything like a
bird strike. Even if this Dreamline is one of its
engines were to fail, experts say that it's of a
good enough quality aircraft and should still have been able

(11:26):
to take off, and it's an aircraft with a stellar
safety record. It really this is really the first major
crash it's been involved in. Boeing does have a recent
history of some quite serious crashes we saw particularly towards
the end of last year, but this model has been
completely unaffected by that. It was actually in Melbourne a
couple of days ago in tot Loraine for a routine

(11:46):
flight and there were no issues reported then. But yes,
there wasn't made a call to answer your question, and
it was the pilots reporting the problems without trying to
generate lift. But sadly there was no response to the
further radios through the costbit from their traffic control.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
You mentioned the temperature was thirty seven degrees so that
was pretty hot. But were there any other prevailing weather
conditions that could have influenced the crash.

Speaker 5 (12:10):
Not a wind that's been reported that was significant. You
can see in the footage as well that it's like
the plane very often when they take off and particularly
when they land, you can see them sort of moving
sideways or laterally if they're a severe wind. We haven't
seen any indication of that. Really, it's only a couple
of one hundred meters off the ground. You're unlikely to
be affected by that, particularly during takeoff. So there hasn't

(12:33):
be any reports of that. There hasn't been any reports
of terrorism or any malicious intent like that either. But
I mean, whatever the cause of this really is, even
once we're determined what it is, it's going to provide
a little comfort to the families of those grieving. We're
still learning of his death. Poll that's likely going to

(12:54):
climb from the crash site where this plane's crashed in
serving there's wings juzging out of buildings, a few bits
of the fuselage over the landing, yet that obviously failed
tailed the aircraft sticking out of another building. So whose
first responders are still clearing the site. That's got to
get to the black pox and once we get reports
from that then we'll certainly get a clearer picture. But

(13:16):
they're obviously working with medical authorities too and air crash investigators,
so it's going to be some time before we learn
the true it's confirmed the true cause of this is.
But until then, at this stage, it's just sort of
informed guessing.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Ben Downey, thanks for your time. Seven News European correspondent
Ben Downey there. He'll have a full report to light
in seven News.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Well.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Former Quantus pilot Richard du krepni It joins me now
and Richard, I know it's early days, but what do
you make of the crash?

Speaker 7 (13:47):
Hi Graham. First of all, it's tragic for the two
hundred and forty one people to perish, and also we
need to be aware that for every person that dies,
there's about seventy people that might go to a church
or a service to remember them, So that would equate
to about sixteen seventeen thousand people who will suffer trauma
as a consequence of this terrible accident. Sure, Fortunately, aviation

(14:12):
kills about five hundred people a year, which is actually
pretty low if you consider that thirty five million aircraft
take off a year, carrying four and a half billion people.
It's still the safest form of transport. But when these
accidents happen, they're severe and widespread effects. So an aviation
all the regulations what we call written in blood. In

(14:34):
other words, when we have accidents like this, we will
learn the causes for them and will change the requirements
or training or standards, and hopefully this doesn't get repeated.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
I assume you've seen the vision. Was there anything that
you could see that just didn't look right?

Speaker 7 (14:52):
Well, first of all, the first view is a wing
looks very smooth, and so people might say we'll be
leading edge flaps or trailing edge flaps, which are our
surfaces to increase the lift. They didn't seem to be visible.
But the Boeing seven eight seven is one of the smoothest,
smoothest high quality finishes on any aircraft never produced. Boeing

(15:15):
make really smooth designs, so it's likely that we wouldn't
be able to see it even if they were deployed.
So the initial thoughts to there were no leading edge
lift devices or trailing edge devices.

Speaker 8 (15:27):
I'm not convinced by that.

Speaker 7 (15:29):
And there was a sound. The sound was of more
like a propeller aircraft going past, and that might suggest
that we have the we call it the remote air
turbine's If the aircraft detects that have lost the electrics
or hydraulics, it will quickly lower this turbine out of

(15:50):
the fuselage and it becomes a windmill to generate electrical power.
And so if that has deployed and it sounds like
a propeller aircraft, then that would suggest that maybe there's
been a double engine failure. So if there was, then
what are the causes for that. It could be fuel,
or it could be a bird strike, it could be

(16:14):
pilot error. We just don't know. And the last thing
I want to do is suggest that we know the cause,
because we don't. But we do know that the tail
of the aircraft looks pretty intact coming out of the
side of the building, and that containers a flight data
and the voice recorder, and so within a week, I
would anticipate that the investigators will have a very clear

(16:35):
idea as to what exactly happened because it'll track the
switch selections made by the pilots. It will also record
the meteorological conditions with the wind, turbulence, and this position
or the status of all the systems on the aircraft.
We will know in a week, so we can we
can assume and presume that we know what that makes

(16:57):
us if we do it. So it's an interesting thing
to try and think about what's happened, But ultimately we
just need to wait a week and we will.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Know when a plane is taking off. At that point
it would appear to be that's most vulnerable if it
loses power.

Speaker 7 (17:13):
Well, aircraft only take off at twenty percent excess speed.
That what that means is are flying twenty percent faster
than their speed at which they lose left and crash
are landing. It's thirty so there's not much margin between
the speeder which you take off and the speeder which
would the speed you must protect at all costs otherwise

(17:36):
you stall. And it's one thing that is very noticeable
in the video is just how remarkable they bowing seven
eight seven is because in lesser aircraft that didn't have
fly by wide, the pilot would try and stretch the
glide and they would stall the wings and crash. That
aircraft went to a very high angle attack, and the

(17:56):
flight controls seem to be very very clearly protect it
from getting two high angle of attack where the wings stall,
losers lift and crashes. So the seven eight seven, since
twenty twelve in operation, there's been eleven twelve hundred of
them made. It's got a it's safe, there's no questions

(18:20):
about it safety. And I think it was trying. You know,
the Boeing doesn't make the engines. If there was a
double engine failure, the Boeing seven eight seven was trying
its hardest to get them out of trouble.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
So if someone was flying out today on the Boeing
seven eight seven. Should they be concerned?

Speaker 7 (18:37):
I was writing a book on technical the technical aspects
of aviation, and I did a study and engines only
fail one in every three hundred and fifty thousand engine outs.
That means that for a pilot on a two engine aircraft,
only one in eight pilots in commercial aviation we'll ever
see an engine failure in the whole career. I'm a

(18:57):
bit of a magnet, so I've seen five of them.
That's that's not normal. So people generally won't ever one
in eight we'll see an engine failure in the whole career.
And for that reason, I'm saying that after still remarkably safe. Yes,
terrible things happen, and no matter where they happen in

(19:18):
the world, we'll hear about them, and if it bleeds,
it leads. But from a probability perspective, you're safer still
getting your safer flying in any commercial aircraft than you
are to give in the car and drive to the air.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Richard Dekrepney, thanks so much for your time today, former
Quatus pilot with some insight onto the horrific Air India
flight crash overnight back after news headlines five double A
Mornings with Gram Goodings, and I must tell you that
we've got some tickets to give away to the best
of South ofa straatea dinner a little bit later on
the morning, so stay tuned for that. It's a great

(19:56):
night today were celebrating Pepper's truck wash, so stayed. It
could be you re the festival twer. I'm impartial to
the building, but just going to point out that for
years up until recently, no one cared about this area
of the city and probably never frequented Festival Plaza. Now
they've all come under their caves to voice against a
building they probably won't use or see much. Walk a

(20:19):
Tar two has been approved and a little bit later
on this morning we'll talk more about that. If you
have a view on it, you're pleased to see it,
you'd like to see cranes on the horizon, give us
a call. Eight double two three double O double O
or you think no, it should not be built, it's
encroaching on the parklands. I'd like to know your views
and should pepper spray be made legal in South Eastralia?
Eight double two three double O double O. The number

(20:40):
to ring Well the Orchest submarine project, once dubbed by
former PM Paul Keating as the worst deal in all history.
In light of the US decision to review the Orchest deal,
I think it's timely to speak with former Senator and
sub mariner Rex Patrick. Rex joins me. Rex, you've long
been a critic of the Orcus project.

Speaker 9 (21:00):
Is a very interesting development, and it's a very instructive development.
We've got a situation but now shows the fragility of
this project. This is a three hundred and sixty eight
billion dollar project that is vital to our national security,
and we find that the United States can simply conduct
a review and potentially end the project. And in fact,

(21:24):
it might be that even if it survives this review,
in two years time, we may have another review again
where the project could potentially be terminated, and that would
be catastrophic from the perspective that we have invested billions
into this already, and it's been since two thousand and nine,

(21:46):
so it's about almost two decades since we commenced the
task of replacing the Collins class submarines. We might find
ourselves in a situation where we are again starting from scratch,
leaving our country vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
It's very much in the hands of Donald Trump the
US government at the stage. Is there anything Australia can do?

Speaker 9 (22:11):
Not really, And one of the issues here, and I
think there's benefit in this review going ahead, is if
we'd look to what's happening in the United States. The
Congressional Research Service, a very authoritative and well researched body,
the Government Audit Office in the United States have both

(22:31):
said that the US are unable to increase the rate
of their build of submarines such that they can transfer
to Australia Virginia class submarines. They need to be building
two point three submarines per annum in order to be

(22:51):
able to supply US with a boat. They've never gone
above two. In the last year or two, they've been
at one point three boat peranum and then actually slip backwards.
So this review might actually be an honest circuit breaker
where we recognize that the US is simply not going

(23:13):
to be able to deliver us this submrange, and that
enables us to move on to a different pathway. And
we know that when we listen to Richard Miles, the
Defense Minister, or even Peter malnawskis they genuinely state that
they believe that everyone's committed to this project. But to
give a local analogy, the same can be said about

(23:35):
ambulance ramping here in South Australia. People can make a
commitment at the political level that they want to think
that they want a problem to be solved. That doesn't
mean that it gets solved. You can throw money at
the ambulance ramping problem, but you cannot just simply generate doctors.
You cannot simply generate nurses. And that's exactly what's happened

(23:56):
in the United States, and the Congressional Research Service and
the Governor Office have indicated that it's not a money problem,
it's a systematic problem. In the US, it's a problem
that's not going to be solved. This could be a
good circuit.

Speaker 10 (24:11):
Breaker for US.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Does Australia need to have a plan be.

Speaker 9 (24:16):
Well, currently the plan B is we will have no submarines.
Malcolm Turnbull has raised this recently. We should always have
a plan BE on a critical project that involves huge risk,
and we don't and that leaves us vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
So what diplomatic risks last RATA face if the US
does scale back or older is the Orcert agreement.

Speaker 9 (24:43):
Well, again, in my view, if they do it at
this point in time, they actually help us because it
enables us to then say what should we do, what
should the plan be do, or what should the plan be?
The the lasting one that we want to have happen
is so is to continue on and we get to

(25:04):
a point in twenty thirty where they just find up
and say we're not going to deliver you a submarine.
That would be even worse than the current situation that
we're in now. So you know, let's put the diplomacy
aside and let's just get to a reality check. Let's
baseline what the problem is and then react accordingly. And

(25:25):
if it needs to be the case and this program
needs to be counselor or terminated, so be it. Let's
not find out about this or let's not have this
run a ground in twenty thirty two.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Are the viable alternatives to the ORCUS nuclear program?

Speaker 9 (25:46):
Of course there are, And you know that I've been
advocating for some considerable period of time. I've been to
see on nuclear power sobrains they are very good. But
this is a three hundred and sixty billion dollar program
that doesn't deliver us a submarine until twenty until twenty
thirty two at the earliest, and there's no work in

(26:10):
South Australia associated with the Virginia class submarines. What we
should be doing, in my view, is stopping this highly
risky program, going back to a building of off the
shelf air independent propulsion submarines at Osborne. That activity, if
the Defense Department doesn't meddle in things too much, could

(26:33):
start next year and we could be building twenty off
the shelf air independent propulsion submarines for thirty billion dollars
and then taking the three hundred and thirty eight billion
dollars in change and using that to invest in other
capabilities that are so desperately needed by the Australian Defense

(26:53):
Force that are not being founded at this point in
time because of this mammoth program.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Rex Patrick, thanks for your time today, former sub mariner,
former Senator Rex Patrick, who has some insight into the
orcust steel So what are your thoughts, folks? Is this
our way to get out from under? Is maybe this
a blessing in disguise? It's a lot of money tied
up and there's no guarantee that the subs will ever
arrive A double two three double double.

Speaker 11 (27:21):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
The Prime Minister is heading off to the G seven
leaders summit today. He hopes to meet with the US
President Orcus. You would think would be pretty well top
of the list. But there's still no guarantee that that
meeting will take place. From the text line, not one
sub will ever be built in ssay labor propaganda. Peter says,
how much money did we burn getting out of the

(27:43):
French submarine deal? Yeah, we'll look into that. How much
money did that cost? It was expensive and didn't do
our international relations all that much good did it. Who
is the evil enemy besides the USA criminals? What sort
of ally takes our money and doesn't give anything in return?
And Steve says, we should scrap the subs and buy

(28:05):
off the shelf subs from another oversea supplier. We can
probably buy ten alternative subs for three hundred billion dollars
and have them in a few years. If these things
that have happened way off into the future, and you're
dealing with foreign governments changing governments, our own government can
change numerous times before we ever get to the subs
being built here. Certainly the president of the US will

(28:27):
change many many times before that comes to fruition. So
are we expending us a lot of money for something
that is not guaranteed into the future like to know
your thoughts eight double two three double double Hughey, good morning.

Speaker 6 (28:41):
Morning grime the sub brand situation. Ourrs called this a
nickname of the awkward deal, not aucar steel awkward still
turning out awkwardly to have an outcome to where we're
traveling to building also financially. But you know, for me,
there's other tournaments besides submarines, which are very expensive. We

(29:04):
could be waiting ten to twenty years just for the
first one. And that's if there's another wall that breaks out,
it's affecting the alliance. We can't wait for ten twenty
years time. But technology change is so I was told
to a retired naval fella Probbet two or three years
ago now and we're so automated with technology there you

(29:25):
can have drawn drowned sea mines in the sea and
ultimate them towards any craft. And also well you bear
in mind these days, like the stealth bomber, they have
an anti radar shield around which they can't be picked
up by radar. So one was a fly over Moscow
now North Korea. Merck would have that very very very

(29:47):
ideally with stealth bomber. It was undetectable, and that's why
you can do a little other technology. But you've got
the surface away missiles are very common and been well
well used with sure and the parts of Ukraine and
also through from Israel which has been supplied by America
anyway to outline the militants of the Palestine armies there.

(30:14):
But we've got to bear in mind that money there
is also alternative because we've got not as how as
you try across in Australia, but we've got a climate
change situation taking place and it's wipe out lots of America,
lots of growing spaces. You might not be aware as
we're about thirty four percent down in costs which you're

(30:34):
going to build stuffed to about forty shortage of grain.
The Asian countries at moment are short on rice, which
is their common basic food item for their food. So
all these taking place, you've got on our financial commitments
to cover your living style, let alone your defense style.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
I think we'll believe it. There you are, you covert
ale bit of ground. But thanks for then put still
on subs or let's get back to subs Dennis, good morning.

Speaker 12 (31:01):
I was just listening that guy on the radio, good Morning.
He makes a lot of good points. No the gentleman
that he had on just now. Yeah, Rex, that is
a great bloke and he's common sense down to earth
logic straightforward. I can't believe that people at the top,

(31:22):
how stupid they are the government in relation to these submarines,
that money should have been put into manufacturing of the
drones in Australia and then selling those drones off to
the rest of the planet. The guys in government. Seriously,
you go to government, you get a lobotomy, and then

(31:44):
you go to the top. It's just utterly stupid. I
can't believe we're in the position that we're in with
not just with this defense, but with housing and other
things that are way more important than the crap that
these guys put to us and then try and can
in such that what they're doing is right.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Good on you, Dennis, thank you for your input. Yea,
A lot of people are pretty disillusioned with what's happening
in canbra in particular, and we've got three more years
of labor. Would three years of the coalition make a
whole lot of difference? It seems to be. When people
get to canbra, their IQ drops by twenty five percent.
Am I being unkind? I'm not so sure. It worries me.

(32:25):
Australia has to defend itself and make sure that we
have a sufficient defense force to at least make other
countries think twice before attacking us in some way. But
making multi billion dollar commitments thirty years into the future,
so much will change and the technology changes. It's the
thing that you think back twenty five years where technology

(32:49):
was then where it is now. So in twenty five
years we might be laughing at nuclear submarines, saying they're
a total waste of time. Satellites drones can pinpoint these submarines,
rendering them useless. I could be wrong, but this is
a hundreds of billions of dollar gamble and it's a
price that you're paying. I'm paying, our kids are paying,

(33:11):
and our grandkids will be paying into the future. But
you thought it's eight double two three double O, double O.
Love to hear them five double A Mornings with Graham
Goodings eight minutes two ten five double A on this Friday,
the thirteenth. Hope we find you well. Kay, good morning.
What have you got for us?

Speaker 13 (33:28):
Yes, there's two car accidents on the Northeast Road one
httle side of the Windsor Hotel. That's a three car
one that doesn't look too serious but blocking things. But
down nearly outside the hotel there's a really bad three
or four car accident and there's everybody in a tendanc there.

(33:52):
Just sent the roads are block right that way past
city side there, so I just thought i'd let you know.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
So all emergency services are there, are they?

Speaker 6 (34:02):
Yes?

Speaker 13 (34:03):
Yes, all emergency service.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Is it blocking traffic totally or is there still a
lane free.

Speaker 13 (34:10):
Going out of the city. It seems to be totally
blocking due to all the emergency services, but the accident
appears to be going into this city. But because this
car is everywhere, it's pretty pretty slow moving.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
So this is on Northeast Road near the Windsor Hotel. Yes,
that's right, Okay, thank you very much for that. I
appreciate your call. So if you're out on the road
and see something that would be of help to our listeners,
give us a call eight double two to three Double
O DOUBLEO is the number to ring Well developers and
the Premier of one the day, a one hundred and
sixty meter second tower at Festival Plaza has been approved.

(34:46):
The building has been approved despite a last ditch attempt
by more than one hundred and twenty prominent South Australians,
a former Premier, the National Trust of SA and architects.
We're among those to write an open letter demanding the
six hundred million dollar project b holded the town north
of Parliament House, would generate more than thirteen hundred jobs
and during its construction phase, and according to the Premier,

(35:07):
will generate one billion dollars in economic activity. This is
what Planning Minister Nick Champion had to say about the
backlash against the time.

Speaker 14 (35:16):
I think there's always going to be a debate about
the built form, particularly in cities like Adelaide, which you know,
we've got our own unique, distinct sort of urban style
and sort of you know, we were famously crowded by
Colonel Light and so sort of urban design and that

(35:36):
debate around buildings I think has always been sort of
pretty prominent in the city's sort of debates and democracy.
So it's entirely understandable that with a significant project like that,
there's going to be debate and obviously we respectfully disagree
with the case put, but you know it's I think

(35:58):
it's a healthy thing to have in amocracy and that's.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
A planning minister Nic Champion on the five doa a
breakfast this morning? Well, has the battle been lost to
make sure that the building is not built because it
has been approved? Adelaide resident and currently say the Festival
Plaza Alliance chief Robert Farnham joins us. Now, Robert, good
morning to you, Good morning Graham. Is the cause lost?

Speaker 8 (36:22):
It definitely knows way too much at stake. There are
still two sort of strands out there that we're working with.
One is the appeal to the National Heritage Commission because
you know, this was the birthplace of full female democracy.
You know that is a global event. We really should
be on a world heritage list that you're listening.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
But what would go if this building is erected, what
heritage will disappear?

Speaker 8 (36:48):
Opportunity to celebrate that in the most powerful sort of way,
but with a plaza with a democracy hub, because you know,
we're appalled at the low ambition around this bringing a
few office workers from one part of the city to another,
you know where they'll come down and have a sandwich

(37:09):
at lunch and then leave at five o'clock. Is not
activating that plaza.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
So it will.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Generate one billion dollars worth of economic development.

Speaker 8 (37:18):
We would question that bringing five thousand workers from one
part of the city, emptying out that part of the
city and bringing them down the plaza, it is ridiculous
as short term burst of the economy.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Maybe, so what is your benefit to the economy.

Speaker 8 (37:34):
Our benefit would be huge. We've done a cost benefit analysis.
We've submitted that it would bring millions of people to
Adelaide over years. We'd be looking at an ambition maybe
of two million people per year on the basis that
being the global hub of democracy.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Tenllion people to visit Adelaide.

Speaker 8 (37:55):
Yes, per year. They said, you don't think that's a
little bit ambitious, the ten million figure. It could well
be granted that ten million is what they get through
the Federation Square in Melbourne, and we're a smaller city.
But this is a global the global birthplace of democracy,

(38:17):
you know, So that's huge and there.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Is a well would recognize that and appreciate it and
it's wonderful, But do you think people would travel across
the globe to come to the home.

Speaker 8 (38:28):
Of the We can pick up that conversation because we've
got Stuart's win is very strong on that in our committee.
There is one in I think it's Philadelphia. It's an
American Democracy Hub. It's one of the chief tourism destinations
in America.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
I mean, did they get going to that?

Speaker 8 (38:49):
I don't have those figures, but I'm quite happy to
pick up that conversation. Grant. The other point I'd like
to make is not only is it the democracy hub idea,
it's simply that this should be the most active, vibrant
part of the city. Putting a huge office block is
a very strange way to go.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
So what what do you see being constructed there that
would generate two million people coming.

Speaker 8 (39:11):
To adelaide democracy hub has that potential to do.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
So what would the democracy have be? What would we
see there? What would what would someone coming from Europe Sea.

Speaker 8 (39:22):
People come to open plazas. You go to cities around
the world, gram and the plaza is a plaza. It's
a big open space. Sit in the people sit in
the sunshine, they have a coffee, they meet and they congregate.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
And they're going to come from Europe and all over
the world, and two million of them are going to
come to Adelaid to sit in an open plaza.

Speaker 8 (39:41):
Yes, you look at visitation for Rundle Square, it's huge.
It is in the millions per year.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, well, that's a retail precinct. There's lots of things
to do there, not to sit.

Speaker 8 (39:50):
Around and have a coffee, certainly, but the order of this,
when you look at ten million going through Federation Square,
that is something of this order. We may be wide
at the mark. We haven't done research on whether it's
two or one that certainly, My point is that this
should be a really active space. What is not generating

(40:10):
in active space is this curious idea of an office
block which will cut shut down at five o'clock on
a Friday and open up at one o'clock on sorry,
nine o'clock on a Monday.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Okay, Robin, thank you.

Speaker 8 (40:23):
Okay, thanks for your conversation. Grin, thank you.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Robert Farnon. They Save the Festival Plaza Alliance, who believes
that if it was made as a meeting place for
those who recognize the wonderful work of the suffragettes. Women's
suffrage would generate two million visits to Adelaide every year.
What are your thoughts on that'd like to hear them?
Eight double two to three double O, double oh Back
after the News, five double A Mornings with Graham Goodings

(40:50):
eight past ten and on a Friday, This Friday, the
thirteenth day of June. Are you superstitious you're looking out
for black cats and not walking under ladders? Or doesn't
it bother you anymore? A double two three double oh?
Pepper spray? Is it time for it to be legalized?
In South Australia. The Northern Territory is set to become
the second jurisdiction in Australia to allow members of the

(41:11):
public to own capsicum or pepper spray. The NT government
says it's for self defense as it continues to push
law and order reform, but community justice advocates say the
move will increase the risk of racial violence in South Austradia.
Pepper spray is considered a dangerous article and is prohibited
SA best MLC Connie Bnarus has long been calling for

(41:32):
to be legalized. She joins me, Now, Connie, good morning.

Speaker 15 (41:35):
To you, Good morning Graham, and good morning to your listeners.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
So why do you think pepper spray capsicum spray should
be legalized, Well, Graham, I.

Speaker 15 (41:44):
Called for us to look at this issue just like
they're doing in the NT about this time last year,
on strict grounds for self defense and generally, as you say,
it's class the prohibited weapon pretty much everywhere across Australia,
with a couple of exceptions. In WA it has been

(42:05):
you can use it for self defense that is considered
a reasonable ground. In New South Wales is a very
strict permit system. Nobody suggesting that it should be a
free for all.

Speaker 16 (42:16):
There would have to.

Speaker 15 (42:16):
Be parameters around it, and I'm sure there will be
in MT as that trial rolls out. But I guess
it's about the confidence of being able to leave your
home and go out and feel safe, and we know
that each and every day women in particular don't have
that level of safety. We have other things that we
do gram We hold a key in our hands when

(42:37):
we walk to our car. We have a can of
hair spray like I did in my bag. We have
messaging systems with our friends to make sure we get
to our car safely and to our home safely, all
these sorts of things we do to keep safe. And
it's not just women. I'm not suggesting it's bony streets.

Speaker 14 (42:52):
It's just women.

Speaker 15 (42:54):
But there was an incident I'm not sure if you
record it about the same time that I called for
this review, and that's what I'm asking for. Let's just
look at this. Let's look at the pros and cons.
There was an incident that involved multiple assaults on a
train in Adelaide. Now it's one of those people had
been carrying pepper spray. Maybe just maybe, you know, two

(43:19):
or three more people wouldn't have been injured. It's not
an immediate thing. It doesn't necessarily mean you're going to
you know, have the time to reach for the pepper
spray in your bag. It's not a silver bullet. Nobody
suggesting that. But we have to get real about the
fact that people feel unsafe leaving their homes and going out.
I work late, I feel unsafe going to my car,

(43:40):
going to car parks after functions that I attend, all
those things, and so it's really about personal safety. I
can tell you though the proposal went down like a
lead balloon Australia.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
What would you say to people say, look, you know,
if you legalize and make capsicum spray pepper spray more accessible,
the criminal element will get a hold of it, and
then it'll be a free for all.

Speaker 15 (44:03):
Well, and that's and that's precisely the point that I'll
showing to make in those jurisdictions and wa, it's not
a free for all. In New South Wales. The parameters
around use of peperstraate are very very strict. In the
Northern territory. Now that it's being proposed, there will be
paramas around that. So if you're caught using pepper spray

(44:25):
for the wrong reason, you'll be penalized accordingly, just like
you would any other prohibited weapon. You'd have to go
to a process and show that you're you know, you
should be able to carry this. There's a difference between
legalizing and allowing for certain purposes. So I'm not suggesting
we go down that path of three for all. And
I take on board the fact that advocacy groups have said,

(44:46):
well this might be used against women. Anything can be
used against the woman today. It doesn't need to be
a count of feur for spray, but giving that woman
something or whoever it is gram I'm not suggesting it's
just women again, but giving sure that person ate something
in their hands under those sorts of you know, parameters

(45:07):
that they've looked at in other states. You know, it's
not unreasonable for us to at least watch and learn
and look at what the other states are doing and
see what the outcomes are. Are they having the effects
that people are saying they're going to have, or can
we look at this, you know reasonably here in Essay, Well,
look like they're doing another jurisdiction.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
The laws have been open to pepper spray in Western
Australia since nineteen ninety nine, so I would have thought
that if there'd been a pushback and it had been
working negatively, they would have repealed the law.

Speaker 15 (45:40):
The interesting thing about WA was that came down to it.
You know, there was a legal case there where they
determined that a reasonable ground for carrying pepper spray would
indeed be self defense. And you're quite right about the
laws there. After the Bondi stabbings, there was a surge,
a huge surge in the supply and demand of pepper

(46:04):
spray because people felt like they needed to have something.
And that makes sense to me. I understand that. I
think we just need to look at this with a
cool head and consider it on its merits. NT is
now doing a trial. At at least we can follow

(46:28):
that trial and see if it's sort of having the
negative implications that people think they're going it's going to have.
And if it's going to have negative implications, okay, don't
do it. But don't be so closed minded to an
idea when people you know, people are clearly doing it
already exactly and there's huge penalties that apply, and they're

(46:48):
going to have to explain why they have pepper spray
on them if you know, if God forbid they have.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
To use it, you would not open slather like in
the US. I know, you can go and do a
general retail store and there's you know, it's lined up there,
like hairspray or cans of coke. You know, it's paper spray,
all shapes and sizes.

Speaker 15 (47:07):
Absolutely not, And that's not what this idea is about.
And that's not what those other jurisdictions doers were either.
It's not open flater, it's not a.

Speaker 8 (47:15):
Free for all.

Speaker 15 (47:16):
And again, if you use any sort of you know,
whether it's pepper spray or anything else for you know,
unlawful purposes. There are penalties that will apply to you.
So if it is used by somebody to subdue somebody
else and it's used, you know, in a way that's unlawful,

(47:37):
those penalties will still apply. That nobody's saying they wouldn't.
And the suggestion that people don't have it in their
possession now, I think is quite laughable, given that what
we're hearing from retailers is that sales having dead gone
through the roofs and people are carrying pepper spray, whether
it's legal or not. So let's just confront take a
look at it, at reality, be real about it. And so, okay,

(48:00):
is this something we need to consider, which is exactly
what the NT has done. And I say well done
to them for at least taking it on board and
considering it in a measured way.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Well, Connie will find out what the five Double A
listeners think MLC best, Connie banaras SA best, what do
you think should we at least take a look at
capsicum spray and legalizing it in Western Australia. It's been
legalized since nineteen ninety nine. Classified as a controlled weapon.
You have to have reasonable grounds to believe you need it,

(48:30):
such as walking. I mean, how many women, and not
only women, we'd love to go for a walk through
the parklands at dusk and they won't do it, or
they carry some other form of weapon, as Conne Bannara said,
you know, keys in your hand, hair spray at the ready.
So if they had maybe capsicum spray, and I would
obviously only use it if they were under some form

(48:51):
of attack. What do you think should we at least
consider it? Eight double two three double o double oh
is the number to ring. Margie says Connie, have you
ever been sprayed with pepper spray? It's horrible. If you
have the streamer, it's hard to aim it. The myst
will get everyone around you. Some people aren't affected by it,
especially those on drugs. Well, Margie, no, I don't know

(49:13):
that Connie has been sprayed. Yes, it is horrible, and
that is what it's meant to be. It's not meant
to be a tickle. It's meant to incapacitate you. It's
not lethal, it won't kill you, but it is meant
to incapacitate you. So if you're under attack, someone's coming
at you with a machete or a knife and demand
your phone, or demand your wallet or purse. If you

(49:33):
could spray them in the face with pepper spray and
leave the scene while they're incapacitated, it makes sense to me.
What do you think?

Speaker 3 (49:41):
Eight?

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Double two three double double oh? Is the number to
ring back? Shortly?

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Five double A.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Mornings with Graham Goodings twenty one past ten, five double A.
In breaking news, Israel has declared a state of emergency
after a strike on a ran. Loud explosions were heard
in the Ireignan capital, Tehran, according to State TV. It's
not yet clear what Israel is targeting. It comes after
US President Donald Trump called on Israel not to strike

(50:06):
Iran's nuclear sites, saying a deal remained close if Tehran compromises.
Penny Wong spoke a short time ago regarding Israel declaring
a state of emergency.

Speaker 17 (50:16):
As you all know, the situation for the people of
Gaza is catastrophic. Civilians killed by the thousands, people starving,
children going without food and medical supplies, schools, hospitals and
homes destroyed. I know so many Australians are distressed by
the suffering, and many Australians are frustrated that we have

(50:38):
been unable to move the dial on our own.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
That's Foreign Minister Penny Wong on Israel declaring a state
of emergency. We'll have more on that as the day progresses,
and Kendall will no, don't have all the news on
that at ten thirty in the headlines and our major
bulletin at eleven o'clock eight double two three, double O,
DOUBLEO is my number to ring gg Re Festival Plaza
figures quoted Tell him is to quote a famous movie.

(51:02):
Thank you for that, Steve, Good morning, Graham. Love the show,
but don't know why you continue to comment on whether
we should have submarines when you don't understand their value
as it a terrant and a covert operator. It would
be great if you could get someone on that can
educate you and your listeners as to why they are
necessary without sharing sensitive defense information. Thank you for that.
Mark Well, I take your point, but submarines, yes, they're

(51:24):
vital for now. Where are you going to be in
twenty or thirty years time? Technology is catching up all
the time. They are unmanned underwater vehicles. You u these
these advances and detection cyber warfare unmanned submarines. You know,
so in thirty years time, the billions and billions of
dollars that we've paid out could be for archaic and

(51:47):
wide elephant submarines. So I think we need to question
all these decisions. Stuart, good morning to you.

Speaker 8 (51:54):
Yes, good morning your aham.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
You have a response to Nick champions comment on the tower.

Speaker 8 (52:02):
Yes, Look, I think.

Speaker 12 (52:03):
We really do need to get a close look at.

Speaker 16 (52:05):
The economics of the tower. Nick and the Premier. They're
courting a billion dollars I think, and many hundreds of jobs.
Those figures are actually taken straight from the Walker Corporation's
press release. That's their talking points, the Minister for Planning

(52:29):
and the Premier. My best understanding is they have not
actually undertaken an independent analysis, the cost benefit analysis of
the economic costs and benefits of the Walker Tower. They
haven't done that in isolation, and they certainly have not

(52:50):
done it in terms of comparing their project the tower
to the alternative idea of the l as a community
alliance of investing in creating a democracy hub on the plaza.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
And what economic benefits that the sound Standia.

Speaker 16 (53:12):
Well, we've identified eight places in the world where democracy
hubs effectively have been established and are generating a lot
of economic and social and cultural activity. I can give
you some examples. You have the case of in Iceland.

(53:36):
In the capital, the Parliament in Iceland was the first,
in fact we established in the world. It's not actually
a UNESCO World Heritage Site, and based on the numbers
we've seen, it's generating very substantial tourism activity, educational activity.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Can you give us numbers, Well, in the.

Speaker 16 (54:00):
Case of Iceland, the numbers, the annual numbers of visits.
It's a nesticity to one hundred thousand range.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
We had Robert Bannon on earlier saying that if something
similar was here, will attract two million people per year.

Speaker 16 (54:18):
Yeah, look, look, look, yes, look Robert, that sort of
number is simply not in our cost benefit analysis. That's
a number that I think Robert was taking from the
annual visitation to Federation Square in Melbourne. That is absolutely

(54:39):
not our number. It's not in our cost benefit analysis.
And really I hope.

Speaker 8 (54:46):
And fear that the Minister may will seize on that number.
If he does, and you're speaking to him again, should
you should make it very clear that is not in
our cost benefit analysis.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
What can you put a dollar figure on the benefit
for Adelette.

Speaker 16 (55:04):
Well, as I say, if you just give me a moment,
I mean the places for there are democracy hubs range
from Philadelphia, Warsaw, sevens Johannesburg, Edinburgh in Scotland. The numbers
vary and in truth it's quite difficult to you know,

(55:25):
to really sort out in terms of the visitation to
those cities.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yeah, well, look, can we cut to the Chasiert Stuart.
The places you've mentioned have tens of millions, if not
hundreds of millions of people within a few hundred kilometers.
We're on the other side of the planet. We're a
country of twenty seven million people. We're not going to
get the numbers that you were thinking about to come
to Australia to see a democracy have.

Speaker 8 (55:51):
I haven't.

Speaker 16 (55:52):
I mean the only number I've mentioned so far is
of the order of fifty thousand, two hundred thousand.

Speaker 8 (55:58):
And look how it would start and I laid if
the state government and really it should be supported by
the federal government because the importance of the South Australian
Parliament for bringing past to the planet's population four point
two billion women into the world of democracy. That's just
an Australia level importance and in terms of global branding

(56:25):
for Adelaide, you need to invest in it. It's something
that you would develop from this year, say through to
the year two or three six.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
So what will we be building? What are we going
to say here? What's this democracy entile?

Speaker 16 (56:40):
What we would do is we'd spend about somewhere between
fifth day and eighty million to create a low rise,
hopefully iconic structure on the festival plaza. It would be
a structure that would be multi purpose. It would be
a structure that would have use for education, and I

(57:03):
think it really would.

Speaker 8 (57:03):
Start with education. And in terms of footsteps on the
plaza in the early years, many of the footsteps would
in fact be footsteps from the schools around South Australia,
around Adelaide who would visit the plaza in order to
go to the Democracy Hub. The development, the development.

Speaker 16 (57:27):
Of the visitor potential more broadly from within South Australia
and nationally and beyond and ultimately internationally, that obviously is
something that would evolve over three, five, ten years and more.
In terms of getting stayed, for example, somewhere like Philadelphia,

(57:48):
somewhere probably the best example of Johannesburg, the public investment
in Johanna'sburg of effectively a democracy plaza and hub to
recognize and celebrate the breakthrough on a.

Speaker 8 (58:02):
Part type that was something that they invested in about
fifteen years ago, twenty years ago.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
Okay, Stuart, look, we'll leave it there. I think you've
made your point and we'll leave it open to the
five double A audience. What do you think would you
like to see instead of the one hundred and sixty
meter tower, the Walker Tower, a democracy hub. Stewart suggests
it cost fifty or sixty million dollars. Robert Farland says
it would attract two million people to come to see
you the home of democracy. That has been refuted by Stuart,

(58:34):
who said it's probably around fifty thousand or so. Is
it realistic or is it just a pipe dream. I'd
like to know your thoughts. A double two to three
double double back shortly five double A.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
Mornings with Graham Goodings.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Twenty seven to two eleven non five double A. From
the text line, John says, Hi, Graham, I wasn't a
big fan of the proposed skyscraper. However, if it empties
other already under used office box and the CBD. Due
to so many working from home, the empty office bers
could be turned into apartments. Housing crisis solved, John great idea.
I don't know if it'd solved the housing crisis, but yes,

(59:07):
underutilized buildings in the city can be repurposed. There's no
question about that. They could become apartments and could get
people into the city. The city councils has been trying
to get more people into the CBD for many years.
This could be a plus plus, couldn't it. Mark? Good morning, Mark,

(59:28):
Go ahead, are you there?

Speaker 17 (59:31):
Mark?

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Mark is not there? Mark, give us another call and
we'll speak to you later. Well, yesterday I told you
a cautionary tale about solar battery users. It was about
a consumer by the name of Peter Anderson. He joined
agl's virtual power plant in twenty twenty one. He received
one thousand dollars discount for allowing AGL to access his battery,
but a yearian he was shifted to a complex demand tariff.

(59:55):
We're using grid power during peak times, triggered steep monthly charges.
I Meanwhile, AGL drained his battery aggressively, leading him reliant
on expensive grid energy Peter's bill Sword he left the program.
AGL denies fully depleting batteries, but Peter says otherwise. So
virtual power plants they're in operation. I know that a
lot of people happy with them. Let's find out more

(01:00:15):
about it from Professor Bruce Mountain, director of the Victorian
Energy Policy Center. Professor, good morning.

Speaker 9 (01:00:21):
To you, Hi, Hi.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Now just set astraate. What is the VPP program?

Speaker 18 (01:00:29):
Okay, what a VPP is essentially a form of control,
typically of a customer's battery that's on their premises by
external party. So they have an ability, usually through the Internet,
to control it, to switch it up and down, to
charge either from the roof costel the customers might have,

(01:00:51):
or charge it from the group and them getting that
control allows them then to use that electricity to sell
it into the market or to manage the sales of
electricity they have to their customers.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
So there would be people out there who have SOUL
and they have batteries, but they're not connected to this
VPP program.

Speaker 18 (01:01:11):
Yes, the vast bulk of customers that have batteries are
not in a VPP. It's a fairly niche application. There's
been endless talk of it and the energy market operator
and engineers too large measure from central organizations tend to
speak it up as a way to better operate batteries,

(01:01:37):
ostensibly in the public interest, but there are lots of
arguments about that, and I think the picture that you
paint of customers finding that batteries are used by retailers
and the retailers interests rather than in the customer's interest
is I think widely shared.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
So as a concept, are you for or against VPPs.

Speaker 18 (01:02:01):
I think it's an offering that customers might select, and
some might say, if you pay me a thousand dollars,
you can use my battery and they'll have plenty of
solar to meet their own needs. Others will say, well,
I just don't care about the thousand dollars. I don't
want to lose control over my battery, and I would
rather know that the battery is used in my own interests,

(01:02:22):
And so as long as customers are informed about what's
on offer and the implications for them, that's fine. What
I'm not in favor of is the energy market operator
and often policy makers attempting to voice this on customers
on the argument that this is in the national interest.

(01:02:43):
There's a whole lot of underlying premise in that argument,
which is that someone centrally can know how best to
operate these batteries in the public and that's just extremely
hard to do. Partisans. The complex and shortages and surfaces
are really hard to actually predict. So by and large,
I think VPPs probably not going to be a huge

(01:03:06):
thing across the market overall, because I think many customers
are rightly skeptical that it's acting in their interests. But
there might be some that take a different view, and
if they can find retailers to make an offer that
they are fine, attractive.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Great.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
There are a lot of people out there who have
got solar. They realize that the drain on the grid
as it is, and if they have solar and batteries,
they're doing the right thing by the environment, they're doing
the right thing by the country. But it seems that
they could be taken for a ride if they sign
up to the wrong program.

Speaker 18 (01:03:40):
Yes, yes, so I think you know, customers should go
with their eyes open when someone's offering a deal. There
are some energy retailers that will do a VPP operation
of the battery or a VPP like operation of battery
I to actually control left some dispatch. But their pitch

(01:04:03):
to the customer is they do that in a way
to maximize the values as the customer gets from the battery,
and their software and their skills allow them to predict sunshine,
the loads that a customer might have afford uh loads,
and the prices in the market, and the forecasts of

(01:04:25):
rain and weather and so on, and operates the battery
in a way that the customer gets the maximum benefits.
And I think that's the sort of proposition that I
think is likely to be attracted to customers because that
allows them to then utilize the best possible knowledge of
demand and supply, the weather and so on to allow

(01:04:47):
them to get the value from it. And that usually
tends to be in the public interest too, because all
customers are seeing similar demand patterns and similar overall prices,
and so when you make that operate in the ent
to the customer, you tend to make it in the
broader interest of all the customers.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
So what advice would you have anyone considering signing up
to the virtual power plant scheme?

Speaker 18 (01:05:14):
My advice would be, try to find out how they
will operate your battery. Some say they won't fully drain it,
but they come close to find out how often they
will charge and discharge the battery and find out what
happens if the battery is dispatched in a way that.

Speaker 8 (01:05:34):
Doesn't suit you.

Speaker 18 (01:05:35):
So the vast value that customers get from the battery
is by storing surplus solar that they have for which
when they sell it to the grid they get next
to nothing. So if they can be confident that the
battery is operated in a way which customers almost always
get the use of the battery and the VPP company
only gets access to it in extreme circumstances and rarely,

(01:05:57):
then getting one thousand dollars year for something like that
or five hundred dollars a year might well be a
proposition that customers like. Their proposition is they're going to
use it all the time, then I think they should
steer clear.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Do you know if someone signed up and realize that
it's not working for them, how difficult is it to
get out of the scheme.

Speaker 18 (01:06:17):
I think it's usually a sort of annual sign up,
so you'll need to wait until the end of the year,
because usually I mean the actual form of the VTP
payment varies, but the common one will be a payment
for a year, and so you'll need to wait until
the end.

Speaker 6 (01:06:34):
Of the year.

Speaker 18 (01:06:35):
It can be very tricky for customers to know actually
if the battery has been dispatched in their entries, because
you know, very few people are going to watch these
things hard to watch complex, so I think by and
large be cautious of it. Just find out are they
going to be using my battery every day? If they are,

(01:06:56):
chances are it's not going to be a new interest.
If they're going to it rarely and they are offering
you redec summ of money for it, then I think
it's worthwhile. It might be worth not choose.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Professor, Thanks for your time. I appreciate your input today.

Speaker 5 (01:07:13):
Great.

Speaker 8 (01:07:14):
Thank you, Greg.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
That's Professor Bruce Martin, Victoria Energy Policy Center Director on
the cautionary tail the VPP. Are you signed up to
a virtual power plant scheme? How's it working for you?
Cut your bills? You're finding it's working well, but be
very very careful. As that case in point the story
of Peter Anderson who found that his AGL would training

(01:07:36):
it he says, to within five percent of its limit,
so when normally he would when the sun set he
would be able to draw on his battery. There was
only five percent left. He had to pay power at
the top price point of the grid because AGL drawn
the power out of his battery system. So be very
very mindful of that. If it works for you, all

(01:07:57):
well and good, but make sure you well. You've been worn,
haven't you. Hey Graham, it's a bit ironic that vacancity
office blocks emptied you to people working from home could
be repurposed into housing so people can come to live
in the city and work from home. Rob, I like it.
I like where you're coming from, Chaz. Good morning to you.

Speaker 19 (01:08:17):
Oh, good morning, Graham. I sent you an email yesterday
just about the increasing prices of electricity. I don't know
if you had a chance to read that, but I
mean I've been notified by AGL and my prices will
arise dramatically on July. The first peak rate up seven percent,
shoulder rate seventeen percent, off peak rate nineteen percent, and

(01:08:41):
the supply charge seven percent. I mean, these increases are
outrageous and I don't know. I have no idea how
many go income people, pensioners and other people struggling with
the cost of living are going to cope with these increases?

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
This is AGL, is it?

Speaker 10 (01:08:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 19 (01:08:58):
But I'm sure the other companies are the same. Have
you spoken to any of these companies or the politicians
about this particular topic.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
No, I was not aware of this price rise. You're
saying as of July the first I must We're we
literally get hundreds of text chairs and I try and
look as sea as many as I can. I did
not come across yours. I apologize.

Speaker 19 (01:09:19):
It was an email.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Do you read it an email?

Speaker 20 (01:09:22):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
I did not see it.

Speaker 19 (01:09:23):
No, Okay, well, how can I get it to you?
Send it again?

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
Or yeah, please send it again to our email address,
and I'll make a point of looking at it so
we can check those numbers. But look, we will speak
with the energy providers about why the increase. And that's
substandfible go through it again. Peak up seven percent? Was
it off? Peak up seventeen percent?

Speaker 19 (01:09:42):
Peak seven point three, shoulder rate seventeen point two, off
peak eighteen point nine, and the supply charge seven point six.
I mean, whoever puts up prices paid in or nineteen percent?
I mean this is unheard of, and I mean they
just get away with it. Rang AGL, and they said, oh, well,

(01:10:02):
wholesale costs are going up, network costs are going up,
retailer costs have gone up, and renewable energy scheme costs
have gone up. So that's why we have to put
our prices up.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
So you're going to look around, aren't you.

Speaker 10 (01:10:15):
Well, I will, But I mean, I agree, that's a
totally out of hand.

Speaker 19 (01:10:21):
The others aren't aren't offering anything that much better. I mean,
it might be a little bit better, but I mean,
I mean, with agels for years, we get some electricity.
But if I need to change your will, but I mean,
I'm just afraid that all the other companies will be
making the same move on July of hers. But if
you did look into it, I'd appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
No, we must certainly will. And thanks for bringing it
to our attention. Thanks for you, Col Chaz. If anyone
else out there has got a notification from AGL or
any energy provider, let's know what are the increases foreshadowed
for July the first? If none, let us know your
energy provider said no, steady as she goes, like to
know eight double two to three double o double oh
is the number to ring back shortly five Double.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
A Mornings with Graham Gooddings.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Well, as you heard in breaking news this morning, Israel
has carried out strikes on Iran's nuclear program, with blast
heard in Tehran. Israel's PM Benjamin n Yahu says Iran
was a threat to Israel's very survival. Israel is the
cleared state of emergency, saying the country expected retaliation.

Speaker 11 (01:11:22):
For years, the Iranian regime has called for the destruction
of the state of Israel. Over the past few months,
intelligence has shown that Iran is closer than ever to
obtaining a nuclear weapon. This morning, the IDF begun preemptive
and precise strikes targeting the Iranian nuclear program in order
to prevent the Iranian regime's ability to build a nuclear

(01:11:44):
bomb in the immediate timeframe.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Jessica Jana Splendor's University's Senior International Relations lecture and she
joins me now, Jessica, good morning to.

Speaker 20 (01:11:53):
You, Good morning, thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
What are we to make of the lightest development?

Speaker 20 (01:12:00):
So this is quite dramatic, and we are looking at
a very volatile situation in the Middle East right now,
where there's been the threat of direct strikes between Israel
and Iran, or you know, a more direct military confrontation
between Israel and Iran that's been building over the last
couple of years. We have seen a little bit of

(01:12:20):
this already in twenty twenty four, but now, you know,
I think we are seeing a very risky situation where
I think Israel is hoping that it will get away
with these strikes on military and nuclear targets in Iran
without too much retaliation from Iran in response. But we

(01:12:40):
could actually see an unintentional escalation towards an all out
military confrontation between Iran and Israel, which would then probably
inevitably drag in the United.

Speaker 21 (01:12:52):
States as well.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
It was said earlier that Israel's attacking Iran would be
unlikely unless they had US backing.

Speaker 20 (01:13:01):
Well, I actually before this occurred, and you know, this
is only just very breaking news that Israel has carried
out these strikes, I actually did think it was quite
likely that Israel would try to strike some kind of
military or nuclear targets in Iran because we have seen
Israel do this before, and even though the US are

(01:13:23):
not fully endorsing it, I think that Bivinet Nyahu and
the Israeli government are primarily operating driven by domestic concerns
right now. I think that they're confident that whilst the
US might not offer them full endorsement, they're not going
to actually be you know, seriously opposed or try to

(01:13:46):
stop Israel from these sort of targeted strikes against military
assets in Iran. And at the same time, I think
the Israeli government has more domestic issues on mine, so
trying to kind of the domestic populations around the Israeli government,
which is in many ways quite unpopular with large sections

(01:14:08):
of the Israeli population.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Donald trumpet earlier said as a warning to Israel, you know,
if you're going to attack, don't attack Iran's nuclear sites.
But that appears to have been the case that they
have attacked them.

Speaker 20 (01:14:21):
That's right, That's what we believe at the moment. It's still,
as I said, very much breaking news. More information is
coming to light, but again that doesn't really surprise me
in that Israel has done this before, and that Israel
has always said that if it looks like around might
be close to developing a nuclear weapon, that they would
attack those sites. And what we've seen just recently is

(01:14:44):
that the sort of international you know, international body, the
International Atomic Energy Agency that goes into countries and monitors
and checks whether or not they're getting close to developing
a nuclear weapon if they're sort of not supposed to
be doing so. That the International Atomic Energy Agency has
just said in their most recent report that they do

(01:15:05):
think that Iran is violating the terms of not developing
a nuclear weapons. So also following that report, whilst they
don't think that Israel is necessarily too concerned about that
report or the activities of the International Atomic Energy Agency,
it gives them a sort of a rationale or a

(01:15:26):
reasoning to then going in and bombing those nuclear facilities,
which is what we think has happened.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Do we have any reason to believe that Iran is
close to developing a nuclear weapon?

Speaker 20 (01:15:37):
I wouldn't be surprised if they are, And I wouldn't
be surprised if Iran. I mean, I don't have any
insider knowledge on this, but we definitely know that they
use nuclear material for other purposes, and I wouldn't be
surprised if they wanted to get as close as they
possibly could towards developing a nuclear weapon. Just because we

(01:15:58):
are in such an uncertain geo political environment right now,
the US has nuclear weapons, Israel has nuclear weapons, the
UK has nuclear weapons, you know. So I imagine Iran
might be looking around at the kind of global and
regional environment and saying to themselves, if we want to
make sure that we don't become the victims of an

(01:16:20):
attempt at regime change. So essentially the Iranian regime wants
the same power, then a nuclear weapon is kind of
the ultimate guarantee that no other country would come in
and try to affect regime change with a foreign force.
So I think that Iran would be trying to walk
this line of saying that they're not developing nuclear weapons,

(01:16:42):
but trying to get as close as possible that they can,
so that if they see at some state they're going
to need that to guarantee their regime that they won't
be too far away from the development of nuclear weapons.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Israel's declared the state of emergency, so they're obviously expecting retaliation.

Speaker 20 (01:16:58):
Yes, I think they will expect an. I would also
expect some kind of retaliation, although I think that the
Iranian regime does not want an all out military confrontation
with Israel, the same as Israel doesn't want and all
out war with Iran, but they're hoping to kind of
stay below that threshold of hostilities. So I would expect

(01:17:18):
that Iran will need to retaliate in some way, and
I think that'll be probably drones and missiles that will
be sent towards Israeli territory. The last time we saw
that happen in twenty twenty four, almost all of them
were intercepted by Israel's air defense system, the Iron Dog,
So I imagine that again that would probably be the case.

(01:17:39):
But I think also this is the Israeli Prime Minister
Bini manet Yahu trying to maintain political control and you know,
in some ways support within the Israeli domestic context by
creating this heightened feeling of external threat.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
I know it's very early days, but is there any
suggestion of US involvement or assistance in the strikes?

Speaker 20 (01:18:03):
So there is no talk of that at the moment.
And I actually think if we try to look at
the way that Trump has been approaching the Middle East
since coming into his second term as president, Whilst he's
quite interventionist in many ways, like he really likes to
put himself front and center in many issues around the world,
I actually don't think that he is very inclined towards

(01:18:27):
encouraging or engaging in direct strikes against Iran. So I
can't see the US offering clear support or getting involved
in direct strikes against Iran. But on the other hand,
I don't think that he would restrain Bibi net Nyahu
or the Israeli government, maybe to the extent that he could.

(01:18:47):
And if we do see an escalation, that becomes a
much more clear direct military conflict between Israel and Iran,
which I don't think we'll see because neither country really
wants it. But if if we were to see that,
then I think the US wouldn't have much choice but
to become involved at some stage.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Jessica, thank you so much for your insight today. I
really appreciate it at short notice.

Speaker 19 (01:19:10):
You're welcome.

Speaker 20 (01:19:10):
Thanks for having me on the.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
Program, Jessica, Jana Flinder's senior International relations electra on the
developments in Israel and Iran. And we'll keep you posting
with that as the morning progresses. The number to ring
if you have a comment. Eight double two three, double O,
double oh.

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
Five Double A Mornings with Graham Goodings.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
Five Double A's Best of essays about celebrating and profiling
some of the great brands in our state. Today, we're
celebrating Peppers Truck Wash. For your chance to win a
Peppers Truckwash gift pack and two tickets to our bestsa
dinner Friday, June twenty at Adelaidoval. Give us a call now.
Third caller wins eight double two three double o double
five Pepper's truck Strength cleaning products for your car, your caravan,

(01:19:51):
boat or home. Peppers Australia dot com dot au. From
the text line, Stavros says, Gig, this is why the
federal governm has made it mandatory to have smart meters
fitted to our homes, so they can absolutely screw us.
Thank you for that, Stavros, Morning Graham. All this push
for renewables, yet power prices keep going up. What bs
from labor? It's not working and frankly drives inflation and

(01:20:14):
the cost of living so quicker we stop renewables investment
and seriously look at alternatives like nuclear and gas. Well,
will they do it? Will they do it? Will we
be forced to it? Will we be the only country
left on the planet that is fighting towards net zero?
Fiddling while roam burns eight double two to three double
o double.

Speaker 5 (01:20:32):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
Speaking of burning at this time of year, we do
lots of things to keep warm, but with that comes
a warning winter warning, heaters spark fires, we need to
take care. Joining us now is Emily Burke MLC minus
to Ford Emergency Services. Emily, good morning to you. Staying warm?

Speaker 22 (01:20:49):
Oh yes, I am staying warm, but it certainly has
been cold. Mornings and evenings have been much colder. Sounds
like it took forever to become wins.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
Now it's here and with a vengeance. But with that
comes a lot of things that we need to be
careful about in terms of trying to stay warm.

Speaker 22 (01:21:07):
That's right, particularly because it was such a long summer.
Many of us we've kept our heaters in storage and
we we're probably pulling them out now for the first
time or lighting up our fires, and it's really important
that we do the checks because we just need to
make sure that we know, like Particklarly, with wood fires,
if the flu hasn't been cleansed out, it's a really

(01:21:27):
higher risk for causing fires. And unfortunately we have seen this.
There was a fire this last night caused by a
heater in someone's home. But also in May when did
start to get a little bit colder, we all were
quick to rush to get our heaters out, and there
were over two fires every week and may cause by
heaters in home. So you know this is we all

(01:21:48):
think it's never going to happen to us. We all
think it won't ever happen, but you know, if we
don't put those text and balances in place, it could
very well happen. And it comes at a really high price,
not only financially, but to your family and your neighbors
and the people that have to come and support your home,
whether that's the sea, if they're sorting, if there so
really doing those winter checks and just keeping really a

(01:22:11):
little bit stafeer, we will protect so many other people.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Yeah, and with fires too, and I mean it gets
colders and I progresses and people leaving heaters on overnight.
We can understand why they want to do that, but
that's a recipe for disaster, because while you're sleeping, a
fire can take hold and you're not even aware of it.

Speaker 22 (01:22:30):
That's right. Well, I was just at the training ground
where the emergency services train and we watched what happens
when there's a heater close and next to your air dryer,
a closed dry so the clothes were hanging as many
of us do on a month of three. I have
to say I've done this before myself. You put the
clothes a little bit closer to try and get the
school uniforms closed, are dry and before the morning comes around.

(01:22:53):
But it really is a high risk pace because what
we saw today was it takes minutes for that fire
take hold and take control of the whole a whole room.
It was quite impressive to see the still snow like smoke,
but it was It's just happened.

Speaker 8 (01:23:09):
Very very quickly.

Speaker 22 (01:23:10):
And we know that a modern home will take only
four minutes to be engulfed by by fire, So it
happens very very quickly. And that's why we had to
put those preventtions in pace. I mean, smote detectives. We've
all heard it before. They're the best form of presntion.
They're the best surfine of defense. And if we don't

(01:23:32):
check those fire alarms and smoke detectors, we will see
unfortunate incidence, is what I just thought today from that
trial that we just watched.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
Yeah, and there's things like, as you say, we've had
all this wonderful whether all of sudden it's turned cold,
so we've got heat is packed away, combustion heaters and
those strip eaters and the like tucked away. How many
of us sort of check to make sure the cords
aren't afraid or everything is working perfectly, you know, it's
simple things like that. Yeah, yeah, so checking for signs

(01:24:04):
of wear and tear. And also, you know, we all
try and save money, but if you're doing some form
of installation of heating, it's best to get a trades
person to do it, isn't it.

Speaker 22 (01:24:13):
Absolutely, it's just not worth the risk. You know, We've
got professionals, they know what they're doing. Particularly when we're
installing gas peeders. We need to make sure there are
stores correctly and appropriately. It really is making sure that
you're keeping your family space by doing that, but keeping
everyone else face, the neighbors and the people that have
to come and support when those fires do take hold.
So it is you know, sometimes be'st just take a

(01:24:37):
little bit longer to do something make sure that's the
safety of your family is put there.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
It's a shame that we have to give these warnings
every single year because winter rolls around, the same problems exist,
but sure as it does it gets colder, we have
more house.

Speaker 22 (01:24:51):
Fires absolutely, particularly in the evenings like your highland before
it's or is the highest this time because people to
put their fires on or the heats on and they
just for so sometimes they go to ded rythms do
on as well, and it really needs to make sure
that we are as hard as it is when it
does get colder, that we are bringing those steps in
fives to keep everyone's face because as I said, May alone,

(01:25:13):
we had up to three fires or over to fires
a week that were related to heaters being behind. So
it does happen. No one never thinks it is going
to happen to them. So if you don't put those
steps in places to keep your family so.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
It can happen and maintain your smoke alarms, that's right, excellent,
Good on you, Emily, good to chat, thanks for you
to Hapley Burke, Minister for Emergency Services. And it's simple
common sense stuff, isn't it. But we all cut corners
think it's easy. It's a bit cold tonight, pull out
the strip eater from the cupboard. It's been in there
getting dusty and dank for the last six or eight months.

(01:25:46):
Pull it out, just turn it on and off you go.
Please take care you have been worn eight double two
three double o double If you have to comment on
that or anything else, Hi Graham, I got the same
notification from AGL as well. It's ridiculous here we're getting
a lot of feedback about the prices, not only from
AGL about power going up. Is that happening? July the
first is the date apparently? Thank you for that, Nick. Yes,

(01:26:09):
I also got the increased notice from AGL and shopped
around all the same. Got on you, Bruno, and this
is what you have to do. The day's long gone
that you locked into a power provider and that was it.
It's like the same with a bank, isn't it. Once
upon a time you took out a borderhouse, took out
a loan with the bank, and you're stuck with the
bank year in, year out. You know they're a good bank,

(01:26:30):
they'll look after me. Then you find out that, hang on,
I've been with this bank for fifteen years and someone
coming in off the street gets half a percent cheaper.
How is that? Where's the reward for loyalty? Well Er
isn't one. They just want to attract new customers, so
you have to shop around. So we've learnt that loyalty
doesn't count for anything, and you have to shop around.

(01:26:51):
So you have been told, why would anyone trust a
power company to take charge of your home record profits
while we are paying an absolute premium for power. Connie
Banarus is one hundred percent correct. It's high time we
focused a bit more on vulnerable, innocent victims, unless on criminals.

Speaker 3 (01:27:08):
Here.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
That's the call from Connie Binarus to at least consider
legalizing capsicum sprays. Pepper sprays. How many people, particularly women,
if they venture out think, you know, is I'm going
to be safe. I'm alone walking through the parklands near
the parklands, have to get from A to B to

(01:27:29):
my car or whatever and feel threatened. Now, if they
had a pepper spray in their purse, they might feel
a little safer. Just listen to Connie Bararus and agree wholeheartedly.
If the deer man feeding the birds in the parklands yesterday,
or the gardener who were attacked by that mad woman
who hijacked the car, capsicum spray would have given them
some defense against her. Thank you for that Andrew says,

(01:27:54):
with the use of spray, what about bystanders if using
indoors like a train using Connie example, others would be
affected by the use of the spray. Well, I feel
generally speaking, if say you're in a train and there's
a whole group of people there, you're less likely to
be attacked. It's more likely that it will be in
a train, say, or on a tram when you're alone

(01:28:16):
or with only one or two people there, and you know,
capsicum spray If you can disarm an attack a good thing.
I can understand people wanting to do it. GG one
hundred percent agree with legalizing pepper spray. It may save
a lot of innocent people's lives. Thanks for that your
thoughts eight double two three double O double oh back
after news headlines, five double A Mornings with Graham, Goodings

(01:28:40):
and its congratulations to Peter at Gaulrest. You've won a
Peppers truck wash gift pack and two tickets to our
Best of SA dinner Friday, the twentieth of June at
Adelaide Level Peppers truck Strength cleaning products for your car, caravan,
boat or home. Peppers Australia dot com dot AU well,
that says if capsicum spray was available, then it gives

(01:29:00):
another weapon to replace the machetes. And someone says, big
spending labor, who pays you do? How do you feel
about it a phone free environment? Well, as I reckon,
there's nothing more annoying than to be sitting in a
coffee shop or a cafe. I need to have your
space invaded by someone at the next table conducting a
very loud conversation into their phone. Or maybe you look

(01:29:20):
across at the next table and there are two or
three people sitting there in silence. They're engrossed in their phones.
There's no communication at all. Very frustrating. So would a
phone free environment be something that you look forward to?
Phone free cafes are big in Amsterdam and a Dutch
trio who kicked off the trender opening a spot in
July here in South Australia. One of the highlights of

(01:29:41):
this is Illuminate adlaid program is about switching off and
disconnecting from our screen devices. So how important our phone
free spaces? Just think about it, how would you deal
without your phone? Joining menaw is doctor Daniel Einstein, clinical
psychologist behind the concept of being comfortably uncomfortable and co
author of the book Raising Ang'sciety Doctor.

Speaker 3 (01:30:01):
Good morning to you, Good morning Graham.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
Can we live even for a short time without our phones?

Speaker 21 (01:30:07):
Well, we actually can live better if we live without
our phones for at least short periods of time.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
I mean, it's like a lifeline for most of us.
And I sort of include myself on that that. You know,
if you're more than five meters from your phone, you
start to feel very uncomfortable.

Speaker 21 (01:30:24):
Well, that's anxiety, isn't it. I mean, it's a type
of anxiety. It's not an anxiety disorder, but it is
you are feeling a little anxious that you're not close
to connection or close to this portal to solve your worries,
to meet your goals. It's anxiety we're talking about here.

Speaker 1 (01:30:43):
But they're a wonderful source of information anything you need
to know. It's a panacea that it fills in the
time you go to a doctor's or dentist's waiting room
instead of the old magazines at are five years old,
you know, pull out your phone and it's all there
in front of you. I mean, they're a wonderful resource,
that's right.

Speaker 21 (01:31:00):
You can get a lot of things done while you're
in the waiting room as well. So I mean we're
tempted to get things done, and that means that we're
getting hits and we're feeling a sense of achievement, and
it means that we're actually slightly addicted to that portal.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
So I know there are negatives to this, but what
is the balance? What should we be doing?

Speaker 10 (01:31:27):
Well?

Speaker 21 (01:31:27):
The first thing, Graham, is actually what I was referring
to is we can recognize that our phones have an
addictive pool, and that is because it's something in psychology
we know it's called intermittent reinforcement or partial reinforcement. We
get something good sometimes on our phone, not all the time,
but sometimes it's the strongest type of conditioning there is.

(01:31:50):
In fact, so when you reach out to your phone,
you think, oh, maybe there'll be a message waiting for me,
maybe I can call someone I like, or maybe a
problem that I've got will be solved. Okay, it drives
us to pull us to the phone. But then once
we're on it, sometimes the answer is there. Sometimes it isn't,

(01:32:11):
and our mood dips a little bit if it's not.
And that's what I mean by you only get the
rewards some.

Speaker 18 (01:32:16):
Of the time.

Speaker 21 (01:32:17):
Why it's just so addictive. So it's all about recognizing that,
because if you recognize that, you can then make a change.
You can say, you know what, I'm actually going to
put my phone in my bag, I'm going to go
to a phone free cafe. I'm actually going to have
zones in my house where there aren't phones. And some
parents say one of the way that they manage technology

(01:32:37):
at home, in fact, is actually not to have any
computers in bedrooms or devices in bedrooms, and that really helps.
So we can separate that addictive pull from a location,
which at the moment, unfortunately we've just not realized that
that's what's going on.

Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
I think one of the most frustrating things I find
is someone who can remember well and truly before smartphones,
there's a family gathering all around the table dinner time.
You mightn't have caught up for the day, and everyone's
talking talking about their day and how it unfolded and
what went wrong and what went right, and there was
lots of interaction. These days, a family can sit around
the phone in virtual silence because they're all on their smartphones.

Speaker 21 (01:33:19):
Well, yeah, and what's interesting if you go to someone's
house and they've put on a nice dinner for you,
and everyone's having a lovely conversation and there might be
one story or several stories around the table, and let's
say the evening's gone quite well, and then all of
a sudden, there's a point where one person grabs their
phone to show a photo or to show let me

(01:33:40):
show you this YouTube video and only the people on
either side can see, and all of a sudden, that
just cuts everybody off, and other people feel a little excluded,
they're left out. And then what do people do when
they're not feeling good?

Speaker 15 (01:33:55):
So they pull out their own.

Speaker 21 (01:33:56):
Phone, and maybe I'm wanted or needed somewhere else, So
it just breaks up the party. And it's kind of
almost an etiquette question of do we realize do we
recognize the effect of that unintended sharing of a phone
via a phone on the people around us.

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Someone told me that it's not just enough to know.
You go to a dinner and you sit down, and
they said you shouldn't even leave your phone on the table,
because that is a signal or it's a message that
the phone is vitally important to you.

Speaker 21 (01:34:29):
Well, what happens is just the sight of our phone
draws our attention to it a little bit and we
can't help thinking or maybe something's there. So it's more
like we're tempted, and we've got experimental studies showing that,
and that's another reason why you just don't want it
on the table.

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
What about the impact of smartphones and tablets on young children.

Speaker 21 (01:34:51):
Oh, that's a disaster, a complete disastergram Like, we're seeing
studies coming out now showing that the more mothers are
on their own screen in front of a child, the
more chance of their being language delay at the age
of two. We're even seeing mothers their screen time again,

(01:35:14):
son of a child being at the age of three
related to the development of ADHD. Then, So we're just
slowly seeing more and more evidence coming out that screen
news and this unchecked screen news is actually having an
effect on child development.

Speaker 1 (01:35:31):
I mean, as a grandparent and a parent, we are
amazed at our young grandchildren and children's ability at such
a young age to pick up a smartphone and push
a couple of buttons and find photos and scroll through
the photos, and we think, all that's really terrific, But
there is obviously a downside to that. A negative side, Well.

Speaker 21 (01:35:50):
It's just so addictive. It's just so much easier and
more fun for children, and it just means that they
don't have to put effort into other things which are
a bit harder and that involve them to developing skills
like developing their language skills, developing their own storytelling telling,
developing patients, all those sorts of things, putting effort into drawing,
making mistakes. All these things are what children are actually

(01:36:14):
at the moment missing out on because they're getting this
very easy hits of dopamine and other sorts of nero
own transmitters, and it's actually stealing from their development.

Speaker 1 (01:36:26):
And what impact long term does that have on children
going to school, because it's not totally all bells and
whistles in the classroom.

Speaker 21 (01:36:33):
No, we've almost got two buckets of children now going
to school. And if you read any of the reports
coming out of the schools, they're not looking good at all.
And you can see that children who have been raised
with a lot of screen news to calm down tantrums
and where screen news just has been a little unchecked

(01:36:54):
and it's through no fault of parents or parents are
trying to sort of meet meet their own work demands,
and that they've got screens there and it helps them.
No one's intending to have this effect on children, but
unfortunately we are starting to see it. So He've got
these two buckets of children. The bucket where the children

(01:37:15):
just are not ready to learn and they're not ready
to socialize, they're further behind. And the bucket of children
where they have been raised with intense screen awareness and
really not permitted much on screens at all, and families
have good zones in place and practices for themselves, and
those children are in a better state.

Speaker 1 (01:37:38):
Doctor Tom Listener has been taking this all in and
he said, I've noticed recently that people like to fact
check your story on their phones in a conversation. Have
you heard of that outing.

Speaker 21 (01:37:51):
People? There are so many different problems that are coming
up with the use of bodes.

Speaker 20 (01:37:56):
I can't tell you.

Speaker 21 (01:37:57):
We Almost every appointment that I see it, there'll be
some different story about where it's interfering with a person's life,
whether the person's getting envious or jealous, or other people
aren't responding or like you say, or they're consumed with
their own photos. There are just just an endless array

(01:38:17):
of problems.

Speaker 15 (01:38:18):
That are coming up.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
Yeah, so you'd be all for phone free zones.

Speaker 21 (01:38:23):
That's right, like a very sensible because what it does
a phone free zone just acknowledge that there's this addictive
pull of your phone.

Speaker 15 (01:38:32):
And so what it does.

Speaker 21 (01:38:33):
Is that it tells you in this space, I am
not going to go to my phone, whether it's in
my living room or in my kitchen or in a cafe.
And other people also are agreeing that they're not going
to do it. So it provides that community, and it means,
for instance, children know that they can come to you
and that you're not going to get distracted, and it's

(01:38:54):
easier for you to lift your attention from what you're
doing and turn and listen to your child. Almost like
we're almost needing to give ourselves those restrictions to fight
that addictive pool.

Speaker 1 (01:39:07):
The smartphone pervades all areas. I'm thinking of the times
that people are sitting watching television and while they're watching
a movie or a TV show, they're all scrolling through
their phone, you know, the dual screen family.

Speaker 21 (01:39:20):
Again, it's just device discipline. If you teach yourself and
you say to your family, we're not going to do that,
and everyone does it. Both parents need to If there
are two parents in the home, it's not okay. If
only one parent is. That's where I think. And if
we were to all accept and recognize that our phones
and iPads and computers have an addictive pool to them,

(01:39:41):
then at that point, once we've recognized it, we can
put in these phone free zones into our homes or
into the community and it will help everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:39:52):
Great advice. Yeah, good on your doctor, Thanks for your
time today.

Speaker 15 (01:39:56):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:39:57):
Good for speaking on the phone. Doctor Daniel Einstein, clinical
psychologists behind the concept of being comfortably uncomfortable and co
author of the book Raising Anxiety. So it's a smartphone
taken over your life. Tell me all about it. Well,
if you love your food, be listening to Leith Forest
today just after three when Chris Jarma from Jarma's Kitchen
joins her for her joins him Leith, Sorry about that,

(01:40:20):
joins Leith. Chris Charmer joins Leith for Foody Friday. Thanks
to Smeg and Pals, building or renovating, your first choice
should be visiting the Smeg showroom at Debney Distributors. Taste
the difference with Smeg and Pals. Let's take a call Elizabeth,
good morning, Good morning.

Speaker 23 (01:40:38):
You'll get from mar Doris what I am absolutely over
this communist country now. But I have just got a
letter to tell me that I can no longer give
any money to the Liberal Party because it's forbidden.

Speaker 6 (01:40:54):
Now.

Speaker 23 (01:40:54):
Well, the Labor Party is totally run by the Union movement,
which will run all advertating. What are the other people
supposed to do for theirs? I am absolutely this country
is now a communist country. Tony Burke is the greatest
communist in this country, and I am ninety. I have

(01:41:15):
never known anything like this. Nothing could have happened like
this before. I am so afraid from my eleven grandchildren
and fourteen great grandchildren that this country will be no
better than than China or Russia.

Speaker 1 (01:41:33):
Now, Elizabeth Kalmdaw, I understand you. So what has turned up?
You've received something in the post?

Speaker 3 (01:41:38):
Have you?

Speaker 23 (01:41:39):
I've received a letter from the Liberal Party to say
that no longer from Jula the First will donations be allowed.

Speaker 1 (01:41:47):
Yeah, that's right, donations to all political parties. That you're
making the point that the unions will still be able
to support labor independently.

Speaker 23 (01:41:56):
You will run labor. They always have and they always mind.

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
Your unions are shrinking. You know, they're thirty or forty
years ago, Elizabeth. To be fair, unions were quite huge.
They're quite small now. Their impact is far smaller than
there it was.

Speaker 23 (01:42:11):
But for safe MEIU is very powerful and they are
still powerful. They're into the superannuation companies, you know, they're
into everything that makes money. They're not relying on the people.

Speaker 8 (01:42:24):
That belong to them.

Speaker 23 (01:42:25):
I know my a member of my family that had
the unions call and they said, oh, you've got oh
and the members there said, oh no, we've got that
and everything that the union said. You've got a plant,
you've got to make sure and you've got to have
a member here, and we've got to educate them, and
you know, and they said, oh, sorry, no, we've got

(01:42:46):
everything that you're saying we should have. So thank you
very much. You can show yourself through the door.

Speaker 1 (01:42:52):
Elizabeth, thanks so much for your call. Please calm down
and relax. As long as there are people like you
in this country, we went be communist. Don't worry about that.
It's freedom of speech and you can voice your ill
feeling to what has been done. And it's the ending
of political donations. You're not allowed to donate the way
in the past you could. But people are getting upset

(01:43:14):
because unions will still support labor there's no question about
that without having to give the money to the Labor Party.
But that's the subject that we will analyze at another stage.
But Elizabeth, thank you so much for your call. Calm
Down five, Double A Mornings with Graham Goodings, just ten
minutes to go on the show. Then at midday we'll

(01:43:35):
have the news and then after the one o'clock news
this afternoon Leith Forrest who joins me.

Speaker 24 (01:43:40):
Now, Graham, good morning, and how are you today? I'm well,
it's never great watching news and hearing the news as
you've been describing in the last couple of hours.

Speaker 1 (01:43:49):
Yeah, what's happening in Israel?

Speaker 5 (01:43:50):
That's right?

Speaker 24 (01:43:51):
Where does it go from here? Is this the start?

Speaker 1 (01:43:54):
Well, as we were saying off, it's sort of the
way of I'm not saying it's good bad or in different,
but it's all bad for Israeli's it's the way of life.
You know, another day, another bomb. You know, we just
don't know how big this this escalation will get.

Speaker 24 (01:44:08):
Yeah, does it stay as a two, three, four day
conflict or does it become something bigger. Yeah, and everyone
else chimes in and next thing you know, it's World
War three.

Speaker 10 (01:44:18):
Who knows.

Speaker 1 (01:44:19):
Donald Trump evidently said, you know, whatever you do, don't
bomb around nuclear sites. And that's what they've done. So
the future will hold on. I don't know what the
US's reaction has been as yet.

Speaker 24 (01:44:31):
Yes, but I spoke to someone earlier today with Israeli
connections and they said, there's no way Israel did this
without the US knowledge. They just don't believe it. So
there's all these stories and who knows what to believe?
Who knows who you need to listen to. So we'll
cover that as best we can, continuing after one o'clock
and then, in a weird way, life kind of goes on,

(01:44:52):
doesn't it, Because it's the light and shade. That's what happens.
So we'll bring you all your Friday favorites. Joe hide
A ran to talk all things federal politics, we've got
better to say, tickets to give away, and Chris Charmer.
As you mentioned, it's kind of weird rolling out of
Israel conflict into lamb chops, but that is what we'll do.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
Life goes on. I mean, that's it. I mean, you
can't just draw a line on the sand and say
all hands to the pump.

Speaker 24 (01:45:14):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:45:15):
Yeah, And it's Friday the thirteenth.

Speaker 24 (01:45:17):
It is and thirteenth, which normally would be at the
beautiful Capri Theater in Goodwood Road. Tonight would be the
night they played the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Oh, but
the anniversary is on, so they don't actually have the screening.
They're not allowed to do it. There's a global blackout
of showing of that movie until they do it next year.
I think it's a significant So that would normally be
where you get in your fishnets, Graham as it's been

(01:45:39):
a long transexual and you'd get down to the Capri
at twelve o'clock and throw some rice. But not tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:45:44):
So has there ever been a movie like The Rocky
Horror Show that keeps coming back and is so perennial.
I don't think there's any. So No, There's a lot
of movies that I love, but there's not one that
I would sort of, you know, set the calendar by, oh,
we're going to go and see Rocky Ara.

Speaker 24 (01:45:57):
And I hosted it last year or the year before
for the Capri, and I was staggered because at about
quarter to midnight, I'll be honest, Goodwood Road was pretty quiet.
It wasn't a lot and then all of a sudden
they came out from everywhere and there was three four
or five hundred people all dressed up characters from the show.

Speaker 1 (01:46:15):
The time off. That's it.

Speaker 24 (01:46:16):
They just and they just send on the cinema. So
sadly that's not going to happen tonight. But you know
at five double A's like Friday nights after the footy
could sort of get into a bit of the Friday
the thirteenth type stuff for Methday tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:46:27):
So I can't wait. Night's been going. I'm a Crow supporter,
as you well know. Yes, my producer Patrick as a
Hawk supporter. We haven't spoken for days.

Speaker 10 (01:46:36):
Lot of work.

Speaker 24 (01:46:36):
Well let's hope it's not a Friday the thirteenth horror
show for one of you. But they're great. I mean,
it's the old eight point game, isn't it, Because crows
knock them off. It's a genuine contender. Hawthorne knock you
off all of a sudden, the little seed of doubt going,
the crow's right there.

Speaker 1 (01:46:52):
It's a tough if it was here in Adelaide, I'd
feel confidently to be home. Yeah, but over there the
last two games both decided by three points. Yeah that's right,
one on each way, so you couldn't get a more
delicate balance.

Speaker 24 (01:47:04):
Now, let's see the Wizard back in for the Hawks.
So let's see he as a Friday the Thirdeth special.
But that's the sports show, folks. Yes, he's a rail
sport lamb chops. So we're coming up after one o'clock.

Speaker 3 (01:47:14):
Good on you.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
That's Lee Forest on this afternoon after one. Let's take
a call John, good morning.

Speaker 10 (01:47:20):
Hi. I just had a respond to Elizabeth, the ninety
year old outrage lady. Oh she was spot on. I
got in front of me a book by Trevor Loud
and a New Zealand author and documentary Maker's comrade, Prime
Minister Anthony Abernez's forty year alliance with Australian Communism been
out for five months. I pointed it out to the
boys in the morning. They scoffed at me. They're all,

(01:47:42):
it's worth a look, Trevor Loud and Loud Prime Minister,
you have a look at this, you go. We're run
by Marxist, all of them. And this guy, Trevor Adden,
he's got forty six pages of references and direct communists
and social sources. Been out for five months and no
one's mentioned it. I just don't understand what's going on.
You know, Southern Cross Broadcasting has an awful lot of

(01:48:05):
people can do this sort of research rather relying on
callers anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:48:10):
So what's the book. That's Trevor Louden And the book's called.

Speaker 10 (01:48:13):
L A U Don It's called Comrade Prime Minister, available
on the kindle Laura Amazon.

Speaker 1 (01:48:21):
All right, we'll look out for it. Good you, John,
thanks for bringing that to our attention. From the text line,
many parents are using phones as babysitters for children as
young as three years old. Fortunately, some parents are under
immense pressure. However, the content of phone games is damaging
negative influence in all respects to mature life naturally and lovingly,

(01:48:41):
hence today's youth problems for some. Yeah, we all look
adoringly at our young kids and grandkids and saying how
clever they with the phone. Just put it in their
hands and away they go. And that's all well and good,
but it's insidious and they become absolutely dependent on it,
just like their parents and grandparents have, so yeah, be
wary and be warned. That's in reference to the fact

(01:49:03):
that offline cafe is to open an adelaide where you
go in, you have your coffee, enjoy, but you can't
have your phone. Should there be more of that? Elkie says,
three cheers for Elizabeth. I too was born into a
basically Christian country of freedom and watch the communism was
creeping into our lives. Thank you for that, Elkie Graham.
I think you missed Elizabeth's point. Yes, it's a free

(01:49:23):
speech country, but it's all a red tape about things
that you can and can't do, and now you get
fine for it. Thank you for that. Tom hi Gg
just want to say I stand with Elizabeth. I do
worry very much about where this country is headed. Thank
you very much for all your concern and that's good.
I mean, as long as you've got people speaking up
this country, we'll find our way. The electorate don't always

(01:49:45):
get it wrong. Maybe you think we got it wrong
this last time, but you know long term we won't.
That's it for today. I hope you get through the
Friday the thirteenth, all well and good have a wonderful
weekend and we'll be back on Monday. Have a great day.

Speaker 3 (01:50:00):
Five Double A Mornings with Graham Goodings