August 28, 2025 • 52 mins
What would happen if we all approached learning with more creativity, collaboration, and genuine curiosity? Dr. Stephanie Moore-Lotridge takes us inside her work as an educator where she's pioneering approaches that could transform how we train future doctors. On this episode, Nicole and Stephanie discuss:
- Learning to say "no".
- Blacking out during a marriage proposal.... unrelated to the above bullet point...
- Navigating a career in orthopedics with less than 10% female representation.
- Developing team mentorship models.
- Gamified learning strategies.
- Being the only woman in the room.
- The stress of hitting your reading goals.
Ready to rethink how we teach, learn, and mentor? We're just casually discussing changing the world, no biggie.
Subscribe now and join this exploration of what it means to live a happy life in an increasingly complicated world.
Recommendations:
Host: Nicole Swisher
Guest: Dr. Stephanie Moore-Lotridge
Connect with Nicole:
Connect with Nicole:
Affiliate Links:
Tielka Affiliate Link - For amazing tea!
Bon Charge Affiliate Link - Get some red light and block those nasty EMFs!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Steph.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hi Nicole.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, what's something crunchy or zen you've done
lately.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I feel like I've been really focusing on why I say
yes to things.
I feel like I've been reallyintrospective.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
And do you want to share why you say yes?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
to things.
I feel like you know growing upbeing like a girl that wanted
to do science.
You don't.
You never want to turn downopportunities and you always
want to like you know, say yes,not not to shy away from
anything, and I feel like I gotinto the trend then, like all
through schooling, it was alwaysyes to this and yes to that,
(00:35):
and I realized as I've gone onwith my life and my career is
that I can choose what I say yesto.
Is that not every opportunityis what you need to do?
Yeah, I like that, I, I like to.
Is that not every opportunityis what?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
you need to do.
Yeah, I like that.
I.
I like the phrase like notevery opportunity is your
opportunity.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I have to say that to myself.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yes, I love that.
I feel like that was like mytheme this last week of
opportunity that presenteditself of really looking at it
and saying is this something Iwant to do?
Or is this something that maybeisn't my thing?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
yeah, something I've been doing lately is like I made
like a top five priorities forthis year yeah, and so when
something like more of like abigger opportunity comes up, I'm
like how does this align withthese five priorities?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
and if not, no it gets cut, it's not worth the
time then.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Welcome to my Crunchy Zen Era.
This is a weekly podcast with alittle fun, a little humor and
a whole lot of curiosity.
I'm your host, Nicole Swisher,and my guest this week is
Stephanie Moore-Lottridge.
Welcome, Steph.
Thanks, so excited to be hereand chat with you.
I'm excited, too If you couldrelive any memory.
What would it be and why?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh, I know exactly what it would be so when I got
engaged I was so surprised and Ihate surprises.
You guys know, you know me howmuch I'm such a control freak.
I'm a scientist, I'm a controlfreak, I hate surprises and I
had no idea it was coming.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
No idea, no idea, okay I feel like people usually
know.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
One would have thought and I'm pretty observant
to things no, had no idea.
Nor is my husband all thatsneaky, so like had no idea.
Nor is my husband all thatsneaky, so like I had no idea.
I have zero memories of it.
I like blacked out, completelyblacked out and partially
because.
So not only do I like havingcontrol of life, I also don't
like big crowds.
And it was in the Chattanoogaor the Ripley's Aquarium in
(02:37):
Gatlinburg, in front of about250 small children who were
cheering for me, which probablycaused the blackout.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I have no memories of it because you can you imagine
if you said no in front of thosekids?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
and the kids are just like love is dead for them for
forever.
Um, no, apparently I did sayyes, but I don't remember him
asking.
I don't like.
I literally have zero memoriesof it.
If there wasn't photos, I'm notsure I believe you.
So there's photos.
There's no video.
There is a video on his phone,like an old cell phone, that I
literally have zero memories ofit.
If there wasn't photos, I'm notsure I believe it would happen.
So there's photos, there's novideo.
There is a video on his phone,like an old cell phone, that we
have in a drawer, but before theera of being able to move that
(03:14):
type of data around.
But yeah, I have zero actualmemory of this event happening
to me, that's amazing.
I'm just imagining these kids,like their core memory, being
like we saw this lady say no infront of the fish and there was
like a scuba diver in the tankwith a sign and everything.
There was a sign.
Yes, there was a sign there was.
(03:35):
And like I have the sign and Iknow that this happened, and
like we went and put in penguinsafterwards also don't remember
that experience.
It's like there's like a solidchunk of time gone, amazing,
yeah.
So I wish I could go back andrelive that and be like, oh,
actually kind of put that as acore memory that is, that's
great.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I totally understand that now, thank you.
Thank you, okay.
So I have my random grab bagquestion for you.
I'm excited with a cuter bagthese days.
If you could have a superpower,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
oh, oh easy.
Um, ability to control time.
Yeah, I, I want to just like beable to freeze it, continue to
do what I need to do and thenunfreeze time.
So, like all those like littletasks that take way too long,
yeah, that you could just likedo them and then they wouldn't
like waste your day.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, Control time Hands down.
That's great, because one ofthe things I was going to
mention to you today is that Iwould I wish I was rich enough
to have a personal assistant.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Oh, my God Right.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, because, like I've been having to return stuff
which I might have ordered abunch of stuff online.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I'm full support of it For reasons.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Full support of it and then like half of them
needed to be returned and I waslike I have to go to the post
office and I have to print thisand it just was taking up a lot
of space in my head.
I get that and I'm like I wouldhave loved to just give it to
someone else.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, I mean, I much prefer online shopping to
in-person shopping.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I do too.
I'm usually not that far off,though, with like I don't know
why like new brands.
I'd never tried and I was like,okay, half of these have to go
back yeah, but now I know, Ifeel like that's also just like
women's sizing, right.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, like I can buy the same, like a different dress
in the same size and like halfof them fit and half of them
don't.
I'm like cool consistency.
It's brand by brand, yeah don't.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I'm like cool Consistency, it's brand by brand
.
Yeah, completely different.
Yeah, I'm like great, great,especially professional clothing
.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Oh the worst Dress pants, completely off the chart,
different than any other pieceof clothing I own, and I'm like
yeah, yep, steph, would you liketo give a disclaimer?
Today.
Nicole, I would love to giveyou a disclaimer today.
So I'm an employee ofVanderbilt University School of
Medicine, the VanderbiltUniversity Medical Center and
the Vanderbilt University, andso everything we're talking
(05:48):
about today are not endorsedopinions of theirs.
They are all my own opinionsand my own reflections of my
viewpoints.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Thank you so much for sharing.
I understand Thanks.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Appreciate it.
Steph, what do you do for a job?
Oh man, nicole, what do I dofor a job?
I do a whole bunch of differentthings.
I wear different hats.
I am what I consider an educator, so I primarily teach in our
school of medicine, and so whatthat means is, for my first year
medical students, I see them inclassrooms.
We do small group learningtogether In my upper level third
(06:20):
and fourth year medicalstudents, I'm doing curriculum
design and helping mentor themthrough research projects.
Third and fourth year medicalstudents, I'm doing curriculum
design and helping mentor themthrough research projects.
And in addition to those things, I also have roles in the
medical center is that I'm partof the Department of Orthopedics
, where I oversee part of oursummer research program, and I
also help our undergrad campuswhere I do mentorship for kids
doing research projects.
I do a little bit of mentorshipfor our first year students
(06:42):
coming in, and also am thinkingabout taking a new opportunity,
which I'm excited to tell youabout that I'm going to be
teaching a class in the fallthat I just found out about.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, so a little bit of everything.
When was the last time youtaught a class, or have you?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I teach a ton in the medical school, but this will be
my first time teaching 160undergraduate students okay, I
was like I thought you were ateacher, oh yeah.
I Just it's going to be adifferent class than I'm used to
teaching and just a slightlydifferent population Cool.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Um, but yeah, super excited.
Um, do you want to knowsomething kind of embarrassing?
Always tell me.
Um, I had to Google whatorthopedics was because I was
like I know she does more thansomething with feet.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I do do more than feet.
All of the bones and muscles,which apparently that's all I
thought orthopedics were, andyou know, and honestly fair,
like feet are very important.
Foot pain is a very much alimiting thing.
But yeah, no, I've.
I've been part of ourdepartment of orthopedics since
2013, when I started graduateschool.
I just always liked bones andmuscles, but I'm not like the MD
(07:42):
type of doctor, I'm like thePhD science type of doctor, so
like I can't actually fix you.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Oh, okay, but.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I can tell you about what's wrong with your body in
very, very great detail, inminute details.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And then I will take you with me to the doctor to
explain to them.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yes, I'm very good at that.
I have all the connections andnow I teach about all the things
bones and muscles do.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So nice, yeah, and what did you think you were
going to do, like when you werein middle school or high school?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
it's so funny.
I always loved science, but Iactually thought I was going to
work for coroner's office.
I know crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I me too.
Really no jokes love it.
I wanted to be a forensicanthropologist.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I wanted to be bones and I'm I'm convinced it was all
the television influence I hadaround me at the time CSI bones,
like all these great shows thatwere on um.
I actually my when I went tocollege.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
My undergraduate degree was in forensics oh, and
I was like this is gonna begreat yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I was like I did an internship at the coroner's
office up in Cleveland, like I.
I was like this is what I'mgoing to do, and I got through
my first semester, loved all thescience but had this experience
where they took us off to thisfarm where they had buried
animals and they were watchingdecomposition happen.
And I'm like, okay, and this wasup in Ohio, so like not as cool
(09:01):
as like University of Tennesseehas like a full body farm in
Tennessee.
We weren't that cool, we hadlike pigs.
But I promptly realized thatmaggots and me are not friends
and I was like, no, no, and Ilike had such a visceral
reaction to hating maggots and Iwent to my advisor.
I'm like, so I love science andI love the toxicology parts
(09:23):
we're learning about and I lovelike the lab stuff, don't love
dirt and I don't love maggotsand he's like that's going to be
a problem.
And I was like, okay, so, andthen so start talking with him
and like talking about what Ireally wanted to do with my job
and I realized it was more beinga scientist than it was being a
person that was working in likea forensics lab and more on the
(09:45):
academic side.
So I switched my major when Iwas like halfway through my
freshman year to be molecularbiology and biochem and then I
just did science.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And you've enjoyed it , love it, oh my gosh, I've
always loved being a scientist.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It's one of those things I think I found really
early on, like even in highschool and middle school.
I loved science and I lovedlearning things about the body
and about cells and I also,looking back on it, I think I've
always loved teaching.
You know, I was a TA inundergrad, I TA'd in grad school
.
I had all these differentexperiences.
I don't think I realized howmuch I could enjoy that as a
(10:22):
career in the future, becauseit's definitely one of those
things in my field that's kindof downplayed.
There's like this likeundertone joke always of like
people that can't do teach.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Oh, I've heard that.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, I feel like it's one of those things that's
prevalent across professions andI did the hard science thing.
I worked in a lab for manyyears after I got done with my
PhD, co-running it and you know,writing grants and doing that
and there was so much of it Ilove.
But also mentorship was my mainthing I enjoyed and teaching
was the main thing I enjoyed,and so now I'm doing that full
time and it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, I mean I love teaching and I love mentoring.
Like the part of being at a bigfirm that I really enjoyed was
that I got to train the youngerassociates.
Oh, that's awesome, yeah, andjust like see them like flourish
and grow and a lot of them aredoing like a really great job
now.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So all because of me, obviously, but you get to be
part of their journey and youget to, like, see them grow and
see them blossom and, you know,experience hard things and get
through them and you get tocelebrate that with them Like
it's great.
Yeah, I love it.
What surprises you about whereyou're at now?
(11:30):
You know I wish I would havemade my transition earlier.
Okay, I know.
So, you know, I think there wasthis thing in my mind of that I
needed to be in science andwrite all these papers and do
all these scientific discoveriesin the academic world and I
always wanted to go teach.
But I wasn't ready to stop thatgrind yet and I wasn't ready to
(11:50):
kind of take my foot off the gasof the discovery phase of my
career.
And what I realize now, beingout of that kind of discovery
phase and more into the teachingphase, is I love all the
creativity I get to have.
You know, I get to think abouthow are we going to do this
better, how are we going toteach this concept better?
And I have so much flexibilityand space with my colleagues
(12:12):
that they're like oh yeah, thatsounds great, you want to try?
It Sounds good.
I didn't realize how much Imissed that creativity aspect
and also just being able to dosomething sheerly for the love
of wanting to teach somethingbetter.
Not because it's going to getgrant money, not because it's
going to, you know, maybe changeanything in the field or give
more fame or give more glory toscience, just for the sheer love
(12:35):
of teaching something better.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I mean, what do you think took you so long to get
there?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
You know, I think it's you know, when I did a PhD,
I so I was in school for fiveyears and then I did two years
as a postdoc.
It's a lot of school, it's alot of school, it's a lot of
school.
And I did four years or threeyears as an undergrad and it was
just.
You know, it was one of thosethings when you spend that much
time in school, I think we allare like, oh, I have to grind
and I have to get the up thattime and like make it worthwhile
(13:03):
.
And I look back and I know likethat was silly.
Why did I do that?
Like I think I knew when I gotdone with my PhD that I wanted
to teach and I could have madethat transition.
But I will say because I was inthe lab, because I spent more
time in clinical research, Ispent more time with my
physician colleagues.
I have a much betterunderstanding, I think, of what
(13:23):
I need to teach to my medicalstudents, not being an MD, than
I would have if I would comedirectly out of PhD.
I would have had no context.
I would have had no real worldexperience of being in the
hospital and doing clinicalresearch and seeing patients and
rounding and having all theseexperiences that I had in those
five years, I wouldn't have hadthat.
So, pros and cons, it'shindsight right.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, I mean, I had some law school professors who
had never practiced.
Yep, exactly, and then we hadsome who were adjuncts and it
was like the adjuncts.
Some of them were good atteaching, some weren't, but the
people who had practiced andthen shifted and were now
focused on teaching, they werethe best teachers in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, for sure, and I think it's especially with
professional school.
You need real world experienceso I can look at my students say
this is why this matters I knowyou're for a lot of my med
students is.
I know you're licensing examslike the back of my hand.
Now I know exactly the contentyou need to know.
This is why this matters.
I've helped 80 students gothrough the lab.
(14:25):
I was in helping mentor them,helping them match into
orthopedic residency programs.
I feel like I know the equationof what's going to help you be
successful in that type ofprogram and without having that,
I don't think I could mentorstudents how I am now or even
work in a medical school like Iam now without that context.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So how many women are in your field, would you say?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Ortho is less than 10% female.
It is a little bit higher inthe research side.
There's a little bit more womenover on my side, but across we
hover under 10%.
Every year it's going up,they're trying.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Why do you think that less women go into that field?
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I think there was a years and years and years ago,
there was this philosophy thatyou had to be strong to be an
orthopedic surgeon, and in therethere is some truth to that is
that there's a lot of things inOR, when you're replacing a
total hip, or you're replacing atotal knee, or you're moving a
bone, you're taking a piece ofbone out that you need some
strength to do it.
I will say, though, I have seenplenty of colleagues who are
(15:26):
smaller than I am by margins,and they do just fine, because
you just do it differently.
You know you leverage yourselfand you use the tools a little
bit differently, and so you knowall of those things can be
worked around.
I think the other challenge isthat there weren't a lot of
female mentors, and so if you'regoing into a field and you
(15:47):
never see anyone that looks likeyou, how do you get mentorship?
And I will tell you this untilI'm blue in the face I am so
lucky I had such great mentorsthat were males, that were able
to see that I had differentexperiences and different
challenges.
Being a woman in the field Isthat they could step aside and
say, oh, this is something I'venever experienced personally,
(16:08):
but you're going to experiencethis.
You're going to want to be amom maybe one day.
How are you going to deal withyour career?
How are you going to be ascientist and run a lab and do
that?
And so when I had my son he'llbe two in September I had great
people around me that werementoring me.
They weren't female, but theyknew and they understood what
kind of those challenges were.
(16:28):
That is not.
That's very rare, I think, isthat somebody can step outside
of their own personalexperiences and understand that.
So I think it's one of thosethings is like by us bringing
more women into the field overthe last 10 years, it now is
there's attendings that can nowmentor females that are coming
into the field.
So it only gets better is thatthe pipeline continues to grow.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, yeah, I feel so .
mentorship is, I think,extremely important in the
profession like any professionreally, and as a lawyer, there
were not as many women ahead ofme.
As a lawyer, there were not asmany women ahead of me.
There was also, one might say,the class ahead of my generation
was difficult.
(17:10):
The women can be very difficultto work with Same and part of
what I faced is well, we wentthrough it, so you should do it
too, and I strongly believe thateach generation part of our
goal should be to make it easierfor the people behind us and to
look back and say, hey, I'vegot you.
(17:30):
I went through this.
I'm going to make sure you getto do it better.
Yep and I look at, like my nieceeven and.
I'm like, please don't be alawyer.
But I look at her and like herconfidence and she's only seven
or eight now and I never wanther to lose that.
I never want her to think likeyou can't speak up, and that's
(17:51):
what I think each generationshould do.
For the next is to say, like Iwent through this so you don't
have to.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Oh, I, you know, I totally agree with you, Nicole,
and I definitely have seen.
We always joke we call Queenbee syndrome.
Is that in ortho for so manyyears you would have like one
female?
And they were like the tokenfemale of the department or of
the group, and sometimes theywere lovely people that could
invite others in and make spacefor them, and sometimes that's
not always true.
When you get used to being thetoken person is that they don't
want other people around themthat are going to take that
spotlight and take that shinything away from them, and
(18:21):
sometimes that's not always true.
When you get used to being thetoken person is that they don't
want other people around themthat are going to take that
spotlight and take that shinything away from them, and so
it's always interesting.
I am definitely in the camplike the whole hazing culture
thing of like you have to gothrough this hard thing because
I did.
That's silly, that isabsolutely ridiculous when you
(18:41):
think about it.
Right Is that my job is to makeit better for you in the future
and get rid of those barriers.
There should not be thatbarrier Now.
Is training in a profession, nomatter what you're doing hard?
Yes, 100%.
I'm not going to let youcakewalk into this.
I'm going to make sure you arereally well prepared and really
well trained, but at the sametime, it's not going to make you
better.
It's not going to make youbetter, it's not going to make.
(19:01):
I don't want you to have todeal with the BS I dealt with
Like you should be able to bewho you are and grow, and
medical school is hard enough.
Residency is hard enoughwithout those extra factors and
so, if I can get rid of them,spectacular going to do that.
But yeah, I don't feel likethat was always.
What was done for us goingthrough training and I think I
(19:23):
definitely lucked out is that Ihad really great mentors at all
stages training, um, and I thinkI definitely lucked out is that
I had really great mentors atall stages, from strong women as
an undergrad and then reallyawesome mentors for my PhD
training and my postdoctoraltraining.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Like I just got lucky , and now I think it's becoming
more, more of a norm, if that,that is the expectation yeah,
and I would say like probably Imean I probably am midway
through my career, but midwaythrough my midway part of my
career is like I can think oftwo women who were, you know,
older than me and they reallytook an interest and really
(19:58):
helped me and gave meencouragement and confidence I
needed.
Then I can also think of two tothree women who, I think, tried
to crush me.
Yeah, oh, for sure, for sure,okay, and they almost succeeded.
Yeah, um, but it is reallyimportant.
And then I've had lots of malementors as well and it is really
(20:19):
important, for it's just, it'simportant to have like allies
and people who are like.
I understand you're goingthrough something different.
I might not understand what itis exactly, but I'm willing to
like, learn and try as well.
Exactly so it's.
It's a.
Well, you need a team.
Yeah, which brings us to.
(20:40):
I wanted to talk to you aboutthe paper that you've been
working on about mentorshipteams.
Yes, can you tell us a littlebit about that?
Oh my gosh, I would love to.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So it's under review right now, so we'll cross our
fingers.
So what that means is some bigfancy people out there in the
ether are reading it right nowand deciding if they want to
publish it.
Nice, love it.
So now we're in this waitinggame.
One of the things that me andsome people I've been working.
What they're really passionateabout is how do we optimize
mentorship for students that aredoing research, particularly
medical students doing research,and one thing we've been
(21:11):
talking about is, you know, alot of mentorship, no matter
what field you're in, isnormally like a one-on-one
relationship.
You have one person and onestudent that you're mentoring
through either a task or aprocess, or like a career
advancement, like that, right.
What we're learning, though, isthat that model may not be the
most effective in everyenvironment, especially so right
(21:32):
now.
You're aware science world is alittle bit of chaos right now.
We'll leave it at that, butwith chaos comes opportunity for
change and opportunity forgrowth, and one thing we've been
thinking a lot about is sayingokay, if research resources are
maybe changing, how can we stillgive students really good
opportunities and lower theburden on the mentor to make
(21:54):
that a possibility?
And so one thing we'reproposing in this work is to use
what we call team mentorship,where it's a team of faculty
members that maybe havedifferent expertise that are
working together to mentor oneor a small group of students.
And why we're trying to, youknow, think about this model is
it lightens the load on thementor, because a lot of times
I've talked to people like whydon't you want to mentor
(22:14):
something like I just don't havetime?
Yeah or I don't know how, Idon't know what skills they need
and I don't have all the skillsthey need.
So by working as a team it kindof fixes those problems, right
Is that?
You're not the only facultymember they're reporting to.
Your time is one of manypeople's times, so maybe you
don't have time right now, butmaybe your colleague does.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
And so I was curious when I read your paper like so
you're definitely like differentexpertise as in in the medical
field and what they've beenresearching?
Would you also be looking atdifferent strengths and
weaknesses, like as a person?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Sure, I think that.
I think it's really important.
It's not something I dove intohere, because I think some of
those things are hard toquantify, right?
Is somebody maybe a little bitmore compassionate versus maybe
somebody is a little bit moreanalytical and better at writing
and having an analytical mindto describe an idea?
(23:08):
I think there's a lot ofpersonality traits, especially
in medicine, that making ourstudents and making our future
doctors more well-rounded is agreat problem, right.
I love that for them.
I love them to work withsomebody that's maybe super
analytical, super to the point.
I want them to work withsomebody that's maybe super
analytical, super to the point.
(23:28):
I want them to work withsomebody that maybe is more
creative and thoughtful in thatrealm and maybe takes a little
bit more time to work through aproblem, because, let's be
honest, working with patients inthe future, not every patient
is the exact same patient, right, and I think they can learn a
lot from faculty who approachproblems different ways and my
hope is that if we can use thismentorship model so this is the
(23:49):
reason we started talking aboutthis is.
This is the model that I trainedpeople under, so myself, along
with a orthopedic surgeon I usedto work with and still work
with is, we would mentorstudents together and we had
similarities and we had someoverlap, but we also had
differences that I was a PhD bytraining, he's an MD-PhD by
training.
I have a different skill setthan he had.
(24:10):
He had a clinical skill set, Ihad an educational skill set,
and so, by us working together,it allowed us to pull all the
positives in and give them morethan just one person could have
given them and it also allowedus to balance our schedules is
that when he was in the OR, Icould be with the student if
they needed help.
When I was teaching and wasn'tavailable, he could be there to
help them, and so it's, I think,a very helpful model.
(24:32):
But definitely not the norm inour field right now and actually
it's dissuaded against almostis that there's this kind of
lone wolf syndrome in science isthat you need to be running
your lab on your own and youneed to be doing things on your
own, and collaboration isimportant, but leadership is
like a solo event a lot of thetime yeah, and so a few like
(24:54):
words that kind of jumped outwith me that I feel like maybe
go along with this, or like ithelps with emotional
intelligence, curiosity, hope,resilience, communication,
collegiality love that.
Yeah, all, especially thecollegiality part, like, here's
the thing Everyone's working asteams.
Now, all of medicine is a teamsport, true?
Yes, team sport, right, youwould hope we could work on that
(25:19):
, I think.
Always room for improvement.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Always room for improvement.
We're always improving.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
We're improving Growth mindset right, we like
growth mindset, but, yeah, it'sone of those things that I think
we actually have an opportunityright now, with the changes
that are happening to science,is to redefine what the norm is.
We get to take a step back andbe creative and be thoughtful
(25:48):
and, instead of reacting, takinga second and say, okay, what is
the best structure, how can wedo this?
But that both financially makessense, but also for people's
time and energy and effort andburnout, which is a very real
thing across professions.
How can we do this in a betterway?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, yeah, I think one thing that kept coming to
mind as I read it was howimportant solid communication is
in it, and one thing I haveexperienced in the last few
years with something I've beengoing through medically is that
my doctors struggle to talk toeach other and I felt like I
(26:23):
didn't understand why theyweren't working as a team as
much and why the person whodidn't have as much cognitive
ability was having to like.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Why are you the one that's controlling?
Me yeah why me lots ofquestions?
Speaker 1 (26:37):
um.
So I'm just curious if that ispart of what it could foster and
help fix?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
yeah, for sure, and I think it's also.
That is something I thinkacross our medical system here
in the states.
There's a flaw in it.
You know, we talk, we haveelectronic health records, right
.
We write all these notes and wewrite all these things.
Not everything makes it inthere and not every piece of
data makes it in there and andthen they don't all have access
to the same.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
It's like it's going somewhere, but this clinic
doesn't talk to this clinic.
But they know you're goingthere.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.
So then it's like is yourinformation being sent?
How do we get your informationthere?
And I'm honestly, I feel likeone of the things I've learned
about the medical field morethan anything is that there is
such an advantage to havingsomebody in your court that
knows the system.
Yeah, and so, like when myparents have had medical issues,
I know the system, I knowenough people, I know who to
(27:27):
call and all of a sudden, accessto care is so much easier
because you know the questionsto ask, you know the people to
talk to, you know the pipelinesyou're supposed to follow to get
X, y, z appointment.
When you're going at that andyou don't have an advocate, it
is incredibly challenging.
And I do think that's one thingsystems like Vanderbilt Systems
other medical systems are doingthis is that they have patient
(27:47):
advocates built into the systemto help navigate that.
Howard, there's never enough ofthem.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, and it's one of those things that I think
communication is such afoundational thing we teach in
the medical school.
How do you communicate not onlyamongst your peers, but also
across disciplines?
How do you, as a doctor, talkwith the pharmacist?
How does the pharmacist talk toyour physical trainer or your
physical therapist, and your OTsand your PTs and all the other
people that are part of yourcare?
(28:13):
Right, communication is superimportant, but also being able
to listen.
Just because you can talkdoesn't mean you're listening to
the person on the other side,and so you know.
I hope that, like thismentorship model we're talking
about, where it would break downis if people can't communicate,
if part of that mentorship team, if they're not talking, it's
(28:36):
just going to be confusing forthe student.
So we wrote in there.
It's like it is a very realneed that you need to be able to
talk to each other andunderstand what the goals are at
the faculty level before youbring in a student.
It is not their job to readyour mind.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
It's just not, and I feel like that is such a problem
as the mentee of, like thepeople who are supposed to be
mentoring you and like teachingyou how to communicate.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
If they don't communicate well.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
But yeah, and they're like you should just kind of
know.
And it's like, well, no, that'sthe whole point.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
That's actually the whole point of communication.
Yeah, yeah, no, and I thinkthat that's a very if this is
something that we're going to do, we need to also do faculty
development to go along with it.
Yeah, is that some people arejust naturally good
communicators?
Is that they've been trained,but not everyone is.
Even people that have undergonetraining still aren't great
communicators sometimes, and sonot only do we need to
(29:29):
continually train our studentsto be better, right, but faculty
development you never stoplearning right, and you should
continue to learn even whenyou're done with your career
yeah, and so you're also doingthis um gamification.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, it's called, is that right?
Gamified learning, yeah,gamified learning, and so are
you.
Is that going to be umconnected with them teaching?
That I love that idea.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
It could be.
I hadn't thought about in thatspace yet.
Um, it totally could be.
Thank you, nicole, you gave mea new project.
I love it, yes I love it um,yeah, so we, I am huge into what
they call quote-unquote activelearning.
Um, I loved it when I was astudent when it was just hitting
okay, aging myself, like so I'm33.
I was in college from 10 to 13.
(30:16):
It was just kind of hitting thescenes then of you know, people
starting to do games in classand jeopardy and all these other
things that were like builtinto education right, and I
loved it then and I was like Iloved learning like that.
Having a little bit of acompetitive thread throughout
really helped me applyinformation.
When I got to a place where I'mteaching now, one of the things
(30:38):
I like to do is saying okay,topics, a lot of topics.
I teach in the first year ofmedical school, so I teach
biochemistry and what that means.
It's fancy, really intricatedetails about what's happening
inside of your cells.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Things that Nicole doesn't know.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Things that most people don't know, and I would
argue, things that you need toknow as a doctor, but you need
to know them in application,maybe not in the granular detail
that I did as a scientist.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, I care a lot more if you know about
physiology and how the body isworking than I do if you can
tell me about this metabolismpathway, but yet I need you to
know that so you know how drugswork as a doctor Fair.
So a lot of what we've beentrying to do then is saying,
okay, I know this material maybeisn't the most exciting, but
how can we make it exciting foryou?
(31:23):
How can we take this materialand say, okay, we've taught you
it, now let's apply it in a realworld scenario?
And so one of the things when Itook over part of our teaching
for the first year, I asked myfaculty.
I was like, hey, can I make anescape game?
And they looked at me like Ihad three heads because they're
like why would we do that?
And I was like here's all theliterature that shows.
(31:48):
There's tons of work thatpeople have done out there about
giving escape games to studentsin health professions education
and showing that it not onlyenhances their enjoyment of
learning the material, but itdoes help with retention of that
information.
So I.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I think that I see our background folks summer.
Do you know what an escape gameis on the computer?
I do not.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Okay, let's let's say , because I didn't know what
that was game is on the computer.
I do not.
Okay, let's say what that waseither.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
And when.
So I played your escape.
No, but it's sort of like it'son the computer.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Escape room on the computer I played the game you
sent played in the sense that Iwouldn't have been able to get
it correct, except you gave methe answers.
But I walked through it.
Science was my worst in schoolit's okay, you know it's okay.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Um, english was my worst, which was probably one of
your stronger which was mymajor.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, yeah, okay, so no, it's for whatever that was.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
This is why we're friends, nicole this is why
we're friends okay, so explainwhat an escape yeah so have you
ever like done an escape room?
Like you go to a place I'm?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
terrified of an escape because you get locked
inside.
Yes, I'll never get out.
I won't be clever enough to getout, in fairness my deepest
fear.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Totally get that um.
Do you?
You're a big reader.
Do you read abby jimenez's book?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
no, but I might need to okay, you need to so say.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
You'll remember me.
Just came out.
Lovely there.
To not spoiler pause if you'rereading this right now, there is
an element of it where they gettrapped in an escape room
overnight.
Because it could happen ahundred times and, honestly, the
way they tell it in the story.
I'm like, yeah, that couldhappen.
That could definitely happen.
But you need to read the book.
It's lovely.
I just love her writing.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
It's just great.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I love puzzles.
I think puzzles are great.
I love a good board game.
I think a good game is great.
And so what we wanted to do istake some of those elements and
bring them into education andbring them into a science-y
context.
So what we wanted to do is sosome of the lectures I had to
teach is what's calledself-signaling, ie how do
(33:45):
signals from the outside of yourcell transfer to the inside of
your cell and tell it what to do?
Okay, the answer is there's alot of different pathways and a
lot of different intermediateand a lot of different things
that the meta students need toknow.
Okay, and they need to know,like, how does it get in the
cell and what's the cell made of, and all those fun things.
And so we took this material andmy goal was to set up puzzles
(34:06):
that tested said material.
That's what you saw online.
Yes, so first year we did this.
We actually printed it and Ihad them work in like small
groups at tables and do it.
But then I realized I killedlike so many trees, having to
print this thing becauseeveryone needed a different
packet.
It was a whole thing and I waslike, so I didn't want to kill
the trees this year, so the oneyou've played is the new and
improved version.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
It was very fancy, I like that.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, it looked good.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I'm not going to take all the credit for that and I'm
going to tell you how I made it.
Ok, I was wondering.
I was like, did Steph do this?
Thank you for thinking.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
I did.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
She's really good at software stuff.
No, no, no.
There are so many amazingonline tools now, so the
platform I was using completelyfree to use to plop things into.
It's based for educators.
It's great, um, can you dolinks in your podcast?
Yeah, great, I'm gonna give youthe link for it.
(34:59):
It's great.
Every educator should haveaccess to this thing.
Um, but all the material thatwent into it.
I actually had ChatGPT help memake it.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
We love ChatGPT.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Because we love ChatGPT.
I love ChatGPT.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
It's been mentioned in like the last three or four
episodes.
I love that.
I love that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
So, and actually I'm working on a um paper right now
with one of my friends that's upin Michigan about how can we
use ChatGPT to make games ineducation, and they have to do a
series of puzzles that use allthat knowledge that they learned
in class to collect keys asthey go throughout an abandoned
(35:38):
hospital.
And when they get to thisabandoned hospital, in the
basement there's this chest thatthey have to use their four
keys to get a code.
And then the chest opens andgives them like a science prize.
So that was the last code.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yes, that I forgot to give you.
I couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
It's okay.
I hope they'll be able to.
Last year they did.
We'll see.
We'll see.
I'm sure they can.
But I'm glad at least you gotto that point because that means
my, my like building of it wentright.
Yeah so that's a solid checkmark.
So they're going to get to dothis next week Cool, and it's
going to be all the first yearmed students get to hang excited
.
We're gonna have them work inlittle teams, um, and I think
(36:15):
you you probably saw this, onething I built into it this year
that we didn't used to have wascharacters yes, characters so
each character gets their ownlike special hint if they're
part of the team, so kind of tohelp you solve the puzzles or
know like is the password allcapitals or you know, just clues
, clues, to make it a little biteasier.
Then you get a little clue togo with your person, um, but
(36:36):
yeah.
So we're gonna get to do thisnext week, but yeah.
So our whole goal was to takethis like science concepts and
test it, what we call like aformative assessment, meaning
they're not getting graded on it.
In a way that's fun, that theycan apply the knowledge and then
use it to ultimately escape.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Escape yeah, the room I.
I think that would be reallybeneficial because I feel like I
learn in a mysterious way, likeI haven't quite figured it out,
like I have to like readbackground stuff and then kind
of apply it and then like talkabout it again.
Yeah, totally, and it like thatis not how you learn in law
school or in undergrad, like anyof it and so.
(37:15):
I've always kind of likestruggled with that and whenever
I've been in charge of liketraining people, I always want
to know, like how do you learn,yeah, and like can we adjust for
that learning style, becauseoften people get written off
because they don't learn oh, forsure traditional way and that
is not fair and it's completelygatekeeping.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
So I feel like, yeah, I feel like it's love, that
good to be exploring new ideasand options yeah, and especially
like when you're in educate,like when you're in training,
still there's, I think you getforced to learn a certain way,
whether you're in medical school, you're an undergraduate,
you're in law school.
There there's structure andthere's certain ways that you
(37:56):
have to learn to be successful,right, and it's not always
aligned for everyone.
I talk with a lot of firstyears about retraining their
learning strategies, becausewhat works to be a really good
science major as an undergraddoes not work in medical school
especially.
Our curriculum is what we callintegrated, where it builds on
each other throughout the year.
(38:17):
So in college I'm sure you didthis, I did this.
You learn something and thenyou throw it out of your brain
to make room for the next thingTerrible habits, right.
As an educator now I'm likedon't do that.
But in medical school it'sreally like in our curriculum,
you can't do that because youneed that knowledge for the next
thing.
And when they start, sometimesthey're not used to learning
(38:38):
like that.
It's a different style oflearning.
But definitely in the workforcethat is one thing.
When I had staff in the lab, Ialways loved talking with them.
I'm like okay, how do you learn, how do you want to receive
information, and what ways doyou want to tell me information
back?
Do you want to meet in person?
Do you want to meet in person?
Do you want to have thiswritten down?
Do you want to have this videorecorded?
(38:59):
I'm like I don't care what itis, but I want you to make sure
that you feel like you're takingin the things we're talking
about.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And I feel very strongly about that, that it's
the teacher, the trainer, thementor's responsibility to
initiate that conversation andto adjust for the person that's
learning, because you're thereto serve that person.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
They're not there to serve you yeah, and I I think
that gets mixed up quite a bitoh, for sure, and I think people
forget, like, and it's alsothose things can change, I think
that's the other thing is thatpeople think that that, like,
your learning style is static,which is, like, totally not the
case.
Okay, I don't know that.
I fully knew that.
Yeah, oh my gosh, you cantotally A learn new ways to
(39:41):
learn.
You can train yourself, andthis is what I have my students
do.
I was like you're used tostudying XYZ way.
Let's talk about other studystrategies that are maybe better
for this type of integrativelearning.
What works for you?
And I always tell them like youhave to be okay.
Knowing something is failingyou Is that you don't want to
keep like digging your hole andyour hole gets deeper and it's
(40:01):
not working for you.
You need to be able to stop,reflect, kind of step away from
the moment and say this is notworking.
I either need help or I need toredefine.
And what I've talked to a lotof when I've worked with staff
over the years is saying, okay,what maybe works for you right
now, as you grow and as youlearn, maybe something else
might be better.
So that was always part of mylike yearly reviews with people
(40:22):
of like, okay, is this still thesame way that you still want to
do information?
Do we want to make changes?
Do we want to adjust any ofthis?
Because you just grow and youlearn.
But I see it all the time instudents.
It's amazing watching like aday one medical student and like
when they get done with theirfirst year before they like go
off to the wards and like arelike clinical people.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Whole different people like whole different
learning strategies, wholedifferent learners, whole
different people, and it's greatthey have so much growth that
first year.
So kind of taking us back alittle bit from a moment, so
(41:06):
kind of taking us back a littlebit from a moment, if you were
speaking to a girl in middleschool, high school, who had
some interest in science oranything related.
What advice would you give toher?
I think and this comes back towhat we were talking to about
knowing when to say yes I thinkone of the biggest things I
would advise on is tryeverything at least once.
If you're interested in it andyou want to go try it, go do it.
Don't let the fear of it oh,only the boys are doing that, or
(41:27):
my friends aren't doing that.
At the end of the day, you needto go try it for yourself and
see if you like it, Because youmay find that, oh, I love that.
Or you may experience it and belike actually don't love that,
how I thought I did.
And so I think, when you'reyoung and you're learning and
you're experiencing, I thinkit's really important to put
yourself out there and say, OK,I'm going to try these different
things, even if me and myfriends aren't doing it, with me
(41:47):
, Solo life journeys.
And then I think later on andsaying, once you start to know
what you like and what you don'tlike, you can start making more
informed choices.
And I feel like that's how Igot to say, okay, I wanted to be
a science major and I wanted togo to graduate school and I
wanted to stay in academia andwork in a lab is because I had
experiences where I couldpurposefully close some doors
(42:11):
and say that's not my path but,also have experience to say I'm
informed to make the nextdecision because then you feel
empowered to do it.
yeah, um, thinking about me alsojust as like a young scientist
and like a young female in aover overly male dominated
workplace where I've always been, I have never found that as a
(42:33):
negative in my world.
A I've.
I've had good mentors, and so Ithink I come from a place of
privilege, knowing that I've hadgood mentors who have also
supported me and protected meand given me space to grow that
I needed as a young femalescientist.
But I would never I wouldalways want to tell other women
is that just because you're theonly girl in the room should not
(42:53):
stop you.
It doesn't change anything foryou, but it maybe changes how
much you have to speak up.
It maybe changes how you needto advocate for yourself and
finding mentors, but itshouldn't change the fact that
you want to try and you want tobe there.
You shouldn't give up becauseof that factor.
Right, if you try it and youhate it, it is also okay to say
(43:19):
no, I'm not going to do that,even if you are the only female
in the room, because you'redoing the right thing for you
and you got to, I think, alsoquestion yourself saying do I
not like this because I actuallydon't like it and it's like
truly not my journey, or do Inot like this because of some
external influence?
I'm seeing that maybe shouldn'tbe part of my decision process
(43:42):
Right.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Maybe it's the environment, not the actual
thing that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, I know I've done that in my career is that
maybe the environment's a littletoxic and you're like I'm going
to say no to XYZ thing becauseof that, and in reality, it
maybe would have been a goodthing if you could have changed
those factors.
And I think there are somefactors and some barriers like
that that are changeable, andthen also there's some that
aren't.
And that's where I think yourmentors come into play.
(44:08):
Is being able to talk with themsaying is this a modifiable
barrier or is this like a?
This is set in stone, this isnot changing, right, and are you
okay with that?
Speaker 1 (44:17):
And that can be really hard to discern.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, and sometimes you don't know, and sometimes
you get in and you're like, ohwait, that's a non-movable
barrier, that's a non-starterand it's never going to change.
And then you get to decide andsaying, okay with that.
How do you want to respond?
I?
Speaker 1 (44:32):
how do you want to respond?
I think that's great advice.
I'm going to ask you anotherquestion now.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Please tell me everything.
What are you obsessing over?
Lately, I feel like my currentobsession.
Well, my year, my.
So my goal for this year was toread, or read, listen to a
hundred audiobooks.
Yes, how are we doing?
We're okay, we're a a littlebehind schedule.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
I think I'm at like 49 right now.
We're uh, we're in August okay,we're at August.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
we're at August 2nd now, so I'm behind.
I'm behind, okay, and so,knowing I'm behind, the question
is is do I just pick up a bunchof small books and get back on
track?
That's what I was thinking, I'mlike.
Is that cheating?
I don't think that's cheating,but then my average page count
is going to plummet.
And also, I have a son and weread a lot of books at home.
(45:25):
Do I get to add Crinkle CrinkleLittle Car to the list?
Maybe it's like, depending onhow long they are, you combine
them to be one book To one book,yes, but like I have read
crinkle, crinkle little carevery night twice at least for
six months.
So that is like at least 500pages of crinkle, crinkle little
(45:46):
car at this point um that iswhat he is obsessing, and that
is what he is obsessing over umbedtime books with mom is what
we're obsessing over um.
But yeah, so you know, I thinkit's one of those things like
when you set goals like that foryourself, like I knew it was
gonna be a reach yeah but alsoI'm okay if I don't meet that
goal because I know I'm likeI've read a lot of books this
year and I've learned a lot ofthings and I've enjoyed it and I
(46:09):
don't want to not enjoy myaudiobook time.
So I think I'm just gonna keepon keeping on and see where I
end up because, like, fall'scoming, yeah, cozy fall, with
like a nice warm drink, it'stime to watch Gilmore Girls.
Time to watch Gilmore Girls.
Time to like sip my audiobookand read a little bit.
Like my my time is coming.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yes, summer's a little less it's like the fall
into winter, is hibernation modeso like that's when you read a
lot anyway, it's cozy season andI love being cozy.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, that is my favorite thing in the world.
Yeah, so I, you know, I thinkthat's what I've been sussing
over of like, does the numbermatter and like, do the metrics
along with that number actuallymatter?
Because, also, like you, areobsessing, oh my god.
But also here's the thing,nicole, who sees this?
But, like my three friends thatare on my goodreads with me,
like yeah, nobody sees this.
(46:57):
Nobody's judging me, nobodywould care.
But in my mind I had set a goaland I have not achieved.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Oh my gosh, well, I am obsessing over escape to the
country.
Oh no, tell me all about it.
Okay, it's on the BBC watch itwith the uh, my mom and I watch
it together, and so when I'mlike kind of stressed and I just
want something like very calmin the background, that's what I
put on.
(47:24):
It's a bunch of like britishpeople being like I can't stand
the city anymore, I need toescape to the country, yes, and
then they go very like calmly,like through it's not house
hunters, like it is very calm,and in the end, most of the time
they don't buy any of thehouses.
It's just like we're justperusing, yeah, and they're like
(47:45):
we hope that they findsomething in the future yeah, I
just I'm like I love it that'sso funny.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
That's also so different, I feel like, than
americanized television, likeall those house shows, like
somebody told me once thatthey're all staged yeah, they
are.
It's like they've actuallyalready bought the house and one
of the houses is their actualhouse.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I know two people who were on House Hunters, one
international and one inMinneapolis, and it is staged.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
That is so disappointing to me, but also
for practicality purposes,totally get it yeah totally get
it, totally get for practicality, purposes.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Totally get it.
Yeah, totally get it, totallyget it.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Um.
So did you bring arecommendation for our audience?
So, because I've been on thisaudiobook kick.
Yes, I think we've talked aboutthis in the past we definitely
have.
My favorite app in the world islibby, okay.
So if you don't already have it, everyone should have libby,
which I do.
We figured out, I do have great,good good so it connects your
local library card and not onlycan you get ebooks on it for
freeze, you can get audiobookson it for freeze, yes, which is
(48:43):
great for somebody like mebecause, like I used to be like
an exclusive audible person.
Or, and also, did you know, youhave audiobooks on your Spotify
if you, yes, I did okay.
So nobody failed.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Nobody told me this till recently this is where I
listened to my really badrom-com.
Oh, I love that, yes.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
I'm all about a bad rom-com.
It's great.
Um, and also I love it onSpotify because you don't like
Libby.
The one downside is that, muchlike the library, you have to
wait for a hold.
If it's not available, it'sfine.
Um, onify, you have what islike 15 hours a month or
something yes, something likethat, and I have hit that before
.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Oh, I hit it frequently.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Um, but I because I listen to my audiobooks.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Now I listen at like 2.2, 2.3 or 5x, so it's like you
can listen to more love thatfor myself, but I just love
libby.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I think it's such a great app to like make books
more accessible to people andtake them with you, versus
paying 15 20 bucks a month tohave one book.
Yeah, um, that is not like thatwould be unsustainable for a
hundred audiobooks a year, butlibby is making my dreams a
reality.
That's's great.
Yes, so that's my rec for you.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
I love that.
My recommendation Ooh, tell me,tell me, I had to write it down
.
It's the Resetter podcast.
Ooh, it's the July 28th episode, called Four Simple Lifestyle
Tweaks for Deeper Sleep inParametopause.
And I almost didn't say theparametopause part because I
actually think this is just likegood for anybody.
I'm not in perimenopause, incase you're wondering um, but
(50:19):
it's really good.
There's like this summer I'mjust like laughing.
Okay, I love it.
Um, but it has really goodrecommendations for sleep and
like how important sleep is tolike refresh your brain, which
for the longest time, I thoughtthere was just something wrong
(50:42):
with me, where I'm like I justcan't think anymore.
I'm going to sleep and I'llwake up feeling better and I'll
know the answer.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Oh yeah, I was like that's a me problem?
Speaker 1 (50:49):
No, that's just like a human problem.
Oh, cool yeah.
So something I learned fromthis podcast Very good.
Big fan of sleep um stuff.
If someone wants to learn moreabout what you've talked about
or reach out to you, where canthey find you?
Speaker 2 (51:03):
so this is going to be like such a science thing.
So everything that we've talkedabout, we're working on putting
into like a shareable format.
Cool, so like.
If you google me, it shouldcome up once it's published, so
give it three to six months.
But I also there are websitesthat cover a lot of what we do
(51:25):
and also just reaching out.
A lot of how we makeconnections in our field is
literally just by our emails.
Is that if people want accessto things and they want to hear
about the work we're doing,especially in the education
space, we just email each other.
Like.
It's very much a like if we,for example, I have a
biochemistry escape game, if myfriend who maybe listens to this
(51:46):
lovely podcast or like, knowsthat they teach biochemistry and
they want it, great, I willgladly send you the link.
It is a very open and friendlyenvironment for educators.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
I will link to like your Instagram or whatever we
decide after.
Perfect, so thank you so muchfor being here, steph.
Thanks for having me, nicole,thanks for listening.
If you guys could subscribe tothe YouTube, that'd be super
helpful, and maybe even leave areview and we'll see you next
week.
Thanks for listening to myCrunchy Zen Era.
Please subscribe and leave areview and we'll see you next
(52:17):
week.
Thanks for listening to mycrunchy zen era.
Please subscribe and leave areview wherever you listen to
your podcasts.
This podcast is produced by me,nicole Swisher and my good
friends Summer Harkup and LizColter.
Editing is by Drew HarrisonMedia and recording is done by
Lagos Creative in Nashville,tennessee.
Thanks for hanging out.
We'll be back next week.
Steph.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hi Nicole.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, what's something crunchy or zen you've done
lately.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I feel like I've been really focusing on why I say
yes to things.
I feel like I've been reallyintrospective.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
And do you want to share why you say yes?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
to things.
I feel like you know growing upbeing like a girl that wanted
to do science.
You don't.
You never want to turn downopportunities and you always
want to like you know, say yes,not not to shy away from
anything, and I feel like I gotinto the trend then, like all
through schooling, it was alwaysyes to this and yes to that,
(00:35):
and I realized as I've gone onwith my life and my career is
that I can choose what I say yesto.
Is that not every opportunityis what you need to do?
Yeah, I like that, I, I like to.
Is that not every opportunityis what?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
you need to do.
Yeah, I like that.
I.
I like the phrase like notevery opportunity is your
opportunity.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I have to say that to myself.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yes, I love that.
I feel like that was like mytheme this last week of
opportunity that presenteditself of really looking at it
and saying is this something Iwant to do?
Or is this something that maybeisn't my thing?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
yeah, something I've been doing lately is like I made
like a top five priorities forthis year yeah, and so when
something like more of like abigger opportunity comes up, I'm
like how does this align withthese five priorities?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
and if not, no it gets cut, it's not worth the
time then.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Welcome to my Crunchy Zen Era.
This is a weekly podcast with alittle fun, a little humor and
a whole lot of curiosity.
I'm your host, Nicole Swisher,and my guest this week is
Stephanie Moore-Lottridge.
Welcome, Steph.
Thanks, so excited to be hereand chat with you.
I'm excited, too If you couldrelive any memory.
What would it be and why?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh, I know exactly what it would be so when I got
engaged I was so surprised and Ihate surprises.
You guys know, you know me howmuch I'm such a control freak.
I'm a scientist, I'm a controlfreak, I hate surprises and I
had no idea it was coming.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
No idea, no idea, okay I feel like people usually
know.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
One would have thought and I'm pretty observant
to things no, had no idea.
Nor is my husband all thatsneaky, so like had no idea.
Nor is my husband all thatsneaky, so like I had no idea.
I have zero memories of it.
I like blacked out, completelyblacked out and partially
because.
So not only do I like havingcontrol of life, I also don't
like big crowds.
And it was in the Chattanoogaor the Ripley's Aquarium in
(02:37):
Gatlinburg, in front of about250 small children who were
cheering for me, which probablycaused the blackout.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I have no memories of it because you can you imagine
if you said no in front of thosekids?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
and the kids are just like love is dead for them for
forever.
Um, no, apparently I did sayyes, but I don't remember him
asking.
I don't like.
I literally have zero memoriesof it.
If there wasn't photos, I'm notsure I believe you.
So there's photos.
There's no video.
There is a video on his phone,like an old cell phone, that I
literally have zero memories ofit.
If there wasn't photos, I'm notsure I believe it would happen.
So there's photos, there's novideo.
There is a video on his phone,like an old cell phone, that we
have in a drawer, but before theera of being able to move that
(03:14):
type of data around.
But yeah, I have zero actualmemory of this event happening
to me, that's amazing.
I'm just imagining these kids,like their core memory, being
like we saw this lady say no infront of the fish and there was
like a scuba diver in the tankwith a sign and everything.
There was a sign.
Yes, there was a sign there was.
(03:35):
And like I have the sign and Iknow that this happened, and
like we went and put in penguinsafterwards also don't remember
that experience.
It's like there's like a solidchunk of time gone, amazing,
yeah.
So I wish I could go back andrelive that and be like, oh,
actually kind of put that as acore memory that is, that's
great.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I totally understand that now, thank you.
Thank you, okay.
So I have my random grab bagquestion for you.
I'm excited with a cuter bagthese days.
If you could have a superpower,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
oh, oh easy.
Um, ability to control time.
Yeah, I, I want to just like beable to freeze it, continue to
do what I need to do and thenunfreeze time.
So, like all those like littletasks that take way too long,
yeah, that you could just likedo them and then they wouldn't
like waste your day.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, Control time Hands down.
That's great, because one ofthe things I was going to
mention to you today is that Iwould I wish I was rich enough
to have a personal assistant.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Oh, my God Right.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, because, like I've been having to return stuff
which I might have ordered abunch of stuff online.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I'm full support of it For reasons.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Full support of it and then like half of them
needed to be returned and I waslike I have to go to the post
office and I have to print thisand it just was taking up a lot
of space in my head.
I get that and I'm like I wouldhave loved to just give it to
someone else.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, I mean, I much prefer online shopping to
in-person shopping.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I do too.
I'm usually not that far off,though, with like I don't know
why like new brands.
I'd never tried and I was like,okay, half of these have to go
back yeah, but now I know, Ifeel like that's also just like
women's sizing, right.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, like I can buy the same, like a different dress
in the same size and like halfof them fit and half of them
don't.
I'm like cool consistency.
It's brand by brand, yeah don't.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I'm like cool Consistency, it's brand by brand
.
Yeah, completely different.
Yeah, I'm like great, great,especially professional clothing
.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Oh the worst Dress pants, completely off the chart,
different than any other pieceof clothing I own, and I'm like
yeah, yep, steph, would you liketo give a disclaimer?
Today.
Nicole, I would love to giveyou a disclaimer today.
So I'm an employee ofVanderbilt University School of
Medicine, the VanderbiltUniversity Medical Center and
the Vanderbilt University, andso everything we're talking
(05:48):
about today are not endorsedopinions of theirs.
They are all my own opinionsand my own reflections of my
viewpoints.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Thank you so much for sharing.
I understand Thanks.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Appreciate it.
Steph, what do you do for a job?
Oh man, nicole, what do I dofor a job?
I do a whole bunch of differentthings.
I wear different hats.
I am what I consider an educator, so I primarily teach in our
school of medicine, and so whatthat means is, for my first year
medical students, I see them inclassrooms.
We do small group learningtogether In my upper level third
(06:20):
and fourth year medicalstudents, I'm doing curriculum
design and helping mentor themthrough research projects.
Third and fourth year medicalstudents, I'm doing curriculum
design and helping mentor themthrough research projects.
And in addition to those things, I also have roles in the
medical center is that I'm partof the Department of Orthopedics
, where I oversee part of oursummer research program, and I
also help our undergrad campuswhere I do mentorship for kids
doing research projects.
I do a little bit of mentorshipfor our first year students
(06:42):
coming in, and also am thinkingabout taking a new opportunity,
which I'm excited to tell youabout that I'm going to be
teaching a class in the fallthat I just found out about.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, so a little bit of everything.
When was the last time youtaught a class, or have you?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I teach a ton in the medical school, but this will be
my first time teaching 160undergraduate students okay, I
was like I thought you were ateacher, oh yeah.
I Just it's going to be adifferent class than I'm used to
teaching and just a slightlydifferent population Cool.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Um, but yeah, super excited.
Um, do you want to knowsomething kind of embarrassing?
Always tell me.
Um, I had to Google whatorthopedics was because I was
like I know she does more thansomething with feet.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I do do more than feet.
All of the bones and muscles,which apparently that's all I
thought orthopedics were, andyou know, and honestly fair,
like feet are very important.
Foot pain is a very much alimiting thing.
But yeah, no, I've.
I've been part of ourdepartment of orthopedics since
2013, when I started graduateschool.
I just always liked bones andmuscles, but I'm not like the MD
(07:42):
type of doctor, I'm like thePhD science type of doctor, so
like I can't actually fix you.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Oh, okay, but.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I can tell you about what's wrong with your body in
very, very great detail, inminute details.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And then I will take you with me to the doctor to
explain to them.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yes, I'm very good at that.
I have all the connections andnow I teach about all the things
bones and muscles do.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So nice, yeah, and what did you think you were
going to do, like when you werein middle school or high school?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
it's so funny.
I always loved science, but Iactually thought I was going to
work for coroner's office.
I know crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I me too.
Really no jokes love it.
I wanted to be a forensicanthropologist.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I wanted to be bones and I'm I'm convinced it was all
the television influence I hadaround me at the time CSI bones,
like all these great shows thatwere on um.
I actually my when I went tocollege.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
My undergraduate degree was in forensics oh, and
I was like this is gonna begreat yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I was like I did an internship at the coroner's
office up in Cleveland, like I.
I was like this is what I'mgoing to do, and I got through
my first semester, loved all thescience but had this experience
where they took us off to thisfarm where they had buried
animals and they were watchingdecomposition happen.
And I'm like, okay, and this wasup in Ohio, so like not as cool
(09:01):
as like University of Tennesseehas like a full body farm in
Tennessee.
We weren't that cool, we hadlike pigs.
But I promptly realized thatmaggots and me are not friends
and I was like, no, no, and Ilike had such a visceral
reaction to hating maggots and Iwent to my advisor.
I'm like, so I love science andI love the toxicology parts
(09:23):
we're learning about and I lovelike the lab stuff, don't love
dirt and I don't love maggotsand he's like that's going to be
a problem.
And I was like, okay, so, andthen so start talking with him
and like talking about what Ireally wanted to do with my job
and I realized it was more beinga scientist than it was being a
person that was working in likea forensics lab and more on the
(09:45):
academic side.
So I switched my major when Iwas like halfway through my
freshman year to be molecularbiology and biochem and then I
just did science.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And you've enjoyed it , love it, oh my gosh, I've
always loved being a scientist.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It's one of those things I think I found really
early on, like even in highschool and middle school.
I loved science and I lovedlearning things about the body
and about cells and I also,looking back on it, I think I've
always loved teaching.
You know, I was a TA inundergrad, I TA'd in grad school
.
I had all these differentexperiences.
I don't think I realized howmuch I could enjoy that as a
(10:22):
career in the future, becauseit's definitely one of those
things in my field that's kindof downplayed.
There's like this likeundertone joke always of like
people that can't do teach.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Oh, I've heard that.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, I feel like it's one of those things that's
prevalent across professions andI did the hard science thing.
I worked in a lab for manyyears after I got done with my
PhD, co-running it and you know,writing grants and doing that
and there was so much of it Ilove.
But also mentorship was my mainthing I enjoyed and teaching
was the main thing I enjoyed,and so now I'm doing that full
time and it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, I mean I love teaching and I love mentoring.
Like the part of being at a bigfirm that I really enjoyed was
that I got to train the youngerassociates.
Oh, that's awesome, yeah, andjust like see them like flourish
and grow and a lot of them aredoing like a really great job
now.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So all because of me, obviously, but you get to be
part of their journey and youget to, like, see them grow and
see them blossom and, you know,experience hard things and get
through them and you get tocelebrate that with them Like
it's great.
Yeah, I love it.
What surprises you about whereyou're at now?
(11:30):
You know I wish I would havemade my transition earlier.
Okay, I know.
So, you know, I think there wasthis thing in my mind of that I
needed to be in science andwrite all these papers and do
all these scientific discoveriesin the academic world and I
always wanted to go teach.
But I wasn't ready to stop thatgrind yet and I wasn't ready to
(11:50):
kind of take my foot off the gasof the discovery phase of my
career.
And what I realize now, beingout of that kind of discovery
phase and more into the teachingphase, is I love all the
creativity I get to have.
You know, I get to think abouthow are we going to do this
better, how are we going toteach this concept better?
And I have so much flexibilityand space with my colleagues
(12:12):
that they're like oh yeah, thatsounds great, you want to try?
It Sounds good.
I didn't realize how much Imissed that creativity aspect
and also just being able to dosomething sheerly for the love
of wanting to teach somethingbetter.
Not because it's going to getgrant money, not because it's
going to, you know, maybe changeanything in the field or give
more fame or give more glory toscience, just for the sheer love
(12:35):
of teaching something better.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I mean, what do you think took you so long to get
there?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
You know, I think it's you know, when I did a PhD,
I so I was in school for fiveyears and then I did two years
as a postdoc.
It's a lot of school, it's alot of school, it's a lot of
school.
And I did four years or threeyears as an undergrad and it was
just.
You know, it was one of thosethings when you spend that much
time in school, I think we allare like, oh, I have to grind
and I have to get the up thattime and like make it worthwhile
(13:03):
.
And I look back and I know likethat was silly.
Why did I do that?
Like I think I knew when I gotdone with my PhD that I wanted
to teach and I could have madethat transition.
But I will say because I was inthe lab, because I spent more
time in clinical research, Ispent more time with my
physician colleagues.
I have a much betterunderstanding, I think, of what
(13:23):
I need to teach to my medicalstudents, not being an MD, than
I would have if I would comedirectly out of PhD.
I would have had no context.
I would have had no real worldexperience of being in the
hospital and doing clinicalresearch and seeing patients and
rounding and having all theseexperiences that I had in those
five years, I wouldn't have hadthat.
So, pros and cons, it'shindsight right.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, I mean, I had some law school professors who
had never practiced.
Yep, exactly, and then we hadsome who were adjuncts and it
was like the adjuncts.
Some of them were good atteaching, some weren't, but the
people who had practiced andthen shifted and were now
focused on teaching, they werethe best teachers in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, for sure, and I think it's especially with
professional school.
You need real world experienceso I can look at my students say
this is why this matters I knowyou're for a lot of my med
students is.
I know you're licensing examslike the back of my hand.
Now I know exactly the contentyou need to know.
This is why this matters.
I've helped 80 students gothrough the lab.
(14:25):
I was in helping mentor them,helping them match into
orthopedic residency programs.
I feel like I know the equationof what's going to help you be
successful in that type ofprogram and without having that,
I don't think I could mentorstudents how I am now or even
work in a medical school like Iam now without that context.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So how many women are in your field, would you say?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Ortho is less than 10% female.
It is a little bit higher inthe research side.
There's a little bit more womenover on my side, but across we
hover under 10%.
Every year it's going up,they're trying.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Why do you think that less women go into that field?
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I think there was a years and years and years ago,
there was this philosophy thatyou had to be strong to be an
orthopedic surgeon, and in therethere is some truth to that is
that there's a lot of things inOR, when you're replacing a
total hip, or you're replacing atotal knee, or you're moving a
bone, you're taking a piece ofbone out that you need some
strength to do it.
I will say, though, I have seenplenty of colleagues who are
(15:26):
smaller than I am by margins,and they do just fine, because
you just do it differently.
You know you leverage yourselfand you use the tools a little
bit differently, and so you knowall of those things can be
worked around.
I think the other challenge isthat there weren't a lot of
female mentors, and so if you'regoing into a field and you
(15:47):
never see anyone that looks likeyou, how do you get mentorship?
And I will tell you this untilI'm blue in the face I am so
lucky I had such great mentorsthat were males, that were able
to see that I had differentexperiences and different
challenges.
Being a woman in the field Isthat they could step aside and
say, oh, this is something I'venever experienced personally,
(16:08):
but you're going to experiencethis.
You're going to want to be amom maybe one day.
How are you going to deal withyour career?
How are you going to be ascientist and run a lab and do
that?
And so when I had my son he'llbe two in September I had great
people around me that werementoring me.
They weren't female, but theyknew and they understood what
kind of those challenges were.
(16:28):
That is not.
That's very rare, I think, isthat somebody can step outside
of their own personalexperiences and understand that.
So I think it's one of thosethings is like by us bringing
more women into the field overthe last 10 years, it now is
there's attendings that can nowmentor females that are coming
into the field.
So it only gets better is thatthe pipeline continues to grow.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, yeah, I feel so .
mentorship is, I think,extremely important in the
profession like any professionreally, and as a lawyer, there
were not as many women ahead ofme.
As a lawyer, there were not asmany women ahead of me.
There was also, one might say,the class ahead of my generation
was difficult.
(17:10):
The women can be very difficultto work with Same and part of
what I faced is well, we wentthrough it, so you should do it
too, and I strongly believe thateach generation part of our
goal should be to make it easierfor the people behind us and to
look back and say, hey, I'vegot you.
(17:30):
I went through this.
I'm going to make sure you getto do it better.
Yep and I look at, like my nieceeven and.
I'm like, please don't be alawyer.
But I look at her and like herconfidence and she's only seven
or eight now and I never wanther to lose that.
I never want her to think likeyou can't speak up, and that's
(17:51):
what I think each generationshould do.
For the next is to say, like Iwent through this so you don't
have to.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Oh, I, you know, I totally agree with you, Nicole,
and I definitely have seen.
We always joke we call Queenbee syndrome.
Is that in ortho for so manyyears you would have like one
female?
And they were like the tokenfemale of the department or of
the group, and sometimes theywere lovely people that could
invite others in and make spacefor them, and sometimes that's
not always true.
When you get used to being thetoken person is that they don't
want other people around themthat are going to take that
spotlight and take that shinything away from them, and
(18:21):
sometimes that's not always true.
When you get used to being thetoken person is that they don't
want other people around themthat are going to take that
spotlight and take that shinything away from them, and so
it's always interesting.
I am definitely in the camplike the whole hazing culture
thing of like you have to gothrough this hard thing because
I did.
That's silly, that isabsolutely ridiculous when you
(18:41):
think about it.
Right Is that my job is to makeit better for you in the future
and get rid of those barriers.
There should not be thatbarrier Now.
Is training in a profession, nomatter what you're doing hard?
Yes, 100%.
I'm not going to let youcakewalk into this.
I'm going to make sure you arereally well prepared and really
well trained, but at the sametime, it's not going to make you
better.
It's not going to make youbetter, it's not going to make.
(19:01):
I don't want you to have todeal with the BS I dealt with
Like you should be able to bewho you are and grow, and
medical school is hard enough.
Residency is hard enoughwithout those extra factors and
so, if I can get rid of them,spectacular going to do that.
But yeah, I don't feel likethat was always.
What was done for us goingthrough training and I think I
(19:23):
definitely lucked out is that Ihad really great mentors at all
stages training, um, and I thinkI definitely lucked out is that
I had really great mentors atall stages, from strong women as
an undergrad and then reallyawesome mentors for my PhD
training and my postdoctoraltraining.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Like I just got lucky , and now I think it's becoming
more, more of a norm, if that,that is the expectation yeah,
and I would say like probably Imean I probably am midway
through my career, but midwaythrough my midway part of my
career is like I can think oftwo women who were, you know,
older than me and they reallytook an interest and really
(19:58):
helped me and gave meencouragement and confidence I
needed.
Then I can also think of two tothree women who, I think, tried
to crush me.
Yeah, oh, for sure, for sure,okay, and they almost succeeded.
Yeah, um, but it is reallyimportant.
And then I've had lots of malementors as well and it is really
(20:19):
important, for it's just, it'simportant to have like allies
and people who are like.
I understand you're goingthrough something different.
I might not understand what itis exactly, but I'm willing to
like, learn and try as well.
Exactly so it's.
It's a.
Well, you need a team.
Yeah, which brings us to.
(20:40):
I wanted to talk to you aboutthe paper that you've been
working on about mentorshipteams.
Yes, can you tell us a littlebit about that?
Oh my gosh, I would love to.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So it's under review right now, so we'll cross our
fingers.
So what that means is some bigfancy people out there in the
ether are reading it right nowand deciding if they want to
publish it.
Nice, love it.
So now we're in this waitinggame.
One of the things that me andsome people I've been working.
What they're really passionateabout is how do we optimize
mentorship for students that aredoing research, particularly
medical students doing research,and one thing we've been
(21:11):
talking about is, you know, alot of mentorship, no matter
what field you're in, isnormally like a one-on-one
relationship.
You have one person and onestudent that you're mentoring
through either a task or aprocess, or like a career
advancement, like that, right.
What we're learning, though, isthat that model may not be the
most effective in everyenvironment, especially so right
(21:32):
now.
You're aware science world is alittle bit of chaos right now.
We'll leave it at that, butwith chaos comes opportunity for
change and opportunity forgrowth, and one thing we've been
thinking a lot about is sayingokay, if research resources are
maybe changing, how can we stillgive students really good
opportunities and lower theburden on the mentor to make
(21:54):
that a possibility?
And so one thing we'reproposing in this work is to use
what we call team mentorship,where it's a team of faculty
members that maybe havedifferent expertise that are
working together to mentor oneor a small group of students.
And why we're trying to, youknow, think about this model is
it lightens the load on thementor, because a lot of times
I've talked to people like whydon't you want to mentor
(22:14):
something like I just don't havetime?
Yeah or I don't know how, Idon't know what skills they need
and I don't have all the skillsthey need.
So by working as a team it kindof fixes those problems, right
Is that?
You're not the only facultymember they're reporting to.
Your time is one of manypeople's times, so maybe you
don't have time right now, butmaybe your colleague does.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
And so I was curious when I read your paper like so
you're definitely like differentexpertise as in in the medical
field and what they've beenresearching?
Would you also be looking atdifferent strengths and
weaknesses, like as a person?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Sure, I think that.
I think it's really important.
It's not something I dove intohere, because I think some of
those things are hard toquantify, right?
Is somebody maybe a little bitmore compassionate versus maybe
somebody is a little bit moreanalytical and better at writing
and having an analytical mindto describe an idea?
(23:08):
I think there's a lot ofpersonality traits, especially
in medicine, that making ourstudents and making our future
doctors more well-rounded is agreat problem, right.
I love that for them.
I love them to work withsomebody that's maybe super
analytical, super to the point.
I want them to work withsomebody that's maybe super
analytical, super to the point.
(23:28):
I want them to work withsomebody that maybe is more
creative and thoughtful in thatrealm and maybe takes a little
bit more time to work through aproblem, because, let's be
honest, working with patients inthe future, not every patient
is the exact same patient, right, and I think they can learn a
lot from faculty who approachproblems different ways and my
hope is that if we can use thismentorship model so this is the
(23:49):
reason we started talking aboutthis is.
This is the model that I trainedpeople under, so myself, along
with a orthopedic surgeon I usedto work with and still work
with is, we would mentorstudents together and we had
similarities and we had someoverlap, but we also had
differences that I was a PhD bytraining, he's an MD-PhD by
training.
I have a different skill setthan he had.
(24:10):
He had a clinical skill set, Ihad an educational skill set,
and so, by us working together,it allowed us to pull all the
positives in and give them morethan just one person could have
given them and it also allowedus to balance our schedules is
that when he was in the OR, Icould be with the student if
they needed help.
When I was teaching and wasn'tavailable, he could be there to
help them, and so it's, I think,a very helpful model.
(24:32):
But definitely not the norm inour field right now and actually
it's dissuaded against almostis that there's this kind of
lone wolf syndrome in science isthat you need to be running
your lab on your own and youneed to be doing things on your
own, and collaboration isimportant, but leadership is
like a solo event a lot of thetime yeah, and so a few like
(24:54):
words that kind of jumped outwith me that I feel like maybe
go along with this, or like ithelps with emotional
intelligence, curiosity, hope,resilience, communication,
collegiality love that.
Yeah, all, especially thecollegiality part, like, here's
the thing Everyone's working asteams.
Now, all of medicine is a teamsport, true?
Yes, team sport, right, youwould hope we could work on that
(25:19):
, I think.
Always room for improvement.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Always room for improvement.
We're always improving.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
We're improving Growth mindset right, we like
growth mindset, but, yeah, it'sone of those things that I think
we actually have an opportunityright now, with the changes
that are happening to science,is to redefine what the norm is.
We get to take a step back andbe creative and be thoughtful
(25:48):
and, instead of reacting, takinga second and say, okay, what is
the best structure, how can wedo this?
But that both financially makessense, but also for people's
time and energy and effort andburnout, which is a very real
thing across professions.
How can we do this in a betterway?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, yeah, I think one thing that kept coming to
mind as I read it was howimportant solid communication is
in it, and one thing I haveexperienced in the last few
years with something I've beengoing through medically is that
my doctors struggle to talk toeach other and I felt like I
(26:23):
didn't understand why theyweren't working as a team as
much and why the person whodidn't have as much cognitive
ability was having to like.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Why are you the one that's controlling?
Me yeah why me lots ofquestions?
Speaker 1 (26:37):
um.
So I'm just curious if that ispart of what it could foster and
help fix?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
yeah, for sure, and I think it's also.
That is something I thinkacross our medical system here
in the states.
There's a flaw in it.
You know, we talk, we haveelectronic health records, right
.
We write all these notes and wewrite all these things.
Not everything makes it inthere and not every piece of
data makes it in there and andthen they don't all have access
to the same.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
It's like it's going somewhere, but this clinic
doesn't talk to this clinic.
But they know you're goingthere.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.
So then it's like is yourinformation being sent?
How do we get your informationthere?
And I'm honestly, I feel likeone of the things I've learned
about the medical field morethan anything is that there is
such an advantage to havingsomebody in your court that
knows the system.
Yeah, and so, like when myparents have had medical issues,
I know the system, I knowenough people, I know who to
(27:27):
call and all of a sudden, accessto care is so much easier
because you know the questionsto ask, you know the people to
talk to, you know the pipelinesyou're supposed to follow to get
X, y, z appointment.
When you're going at that andyou don't have an advocate, it
is incredibly challenging.
And I do think that's one thingsystems like Vanderbilt Systems
other medical systems are doingthis is that they have patient
(27:47):
advocates built into the systemto help navigate that.
Howard, there's never enough ofthem.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, and it's one of those things that I think
communication is such afoundational thing we teach in
the medical school.
How do you communicate not onlyamongst your peers, but also
across disciplines?
How do you, as a doctor, talkwith the pharmacist?
How does the pharmacist talk toyour physical trainer or your
physical therapist, and your OTsand your PTs and all the other
people that are part of yourcare?
(28:13):
Right, communication is superimportant, but also being able
to listen.
Just because you can talkdoesn't mean you're listening to
the person on the other side,and so you know.
I hope that, like thismentorship model we're talking
about, where it would break downis if people can't communicate,
if part of that mentorship team, if they're not talking, it's
(28:36):
just going to be confusing forthe student.
So we wrote in there.
It's like it is a very realneed that you need to be able to
talk to each other andunderstand what the goals are at
the faculty level before youbring in a student.
It is not their job to readyour mind.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
It's just not, and I feel like that is such a problem
as the mentee of, like thepeople who are supposed to be
mentoring you and like teachingyou how to communicate.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
If they don't communicate well.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
But yeah, and they're like you should just kind of
know.
And it's like, well, no, that'sthe whole point.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
That's actually the whole point of communication.
Yeah, yeah, no, and I thinkthat that's a very if this is
something that we're going to do, we need to also do faculty
development to go along with it.
Yeah, is that some people arejust naturally good
communicators?
Is that they've been trained,but not everyone is.
Even people that have undergonetraining still aren't great
communicators sometimes, and sonot only do we need to
(29:29):
continually train our studentsto be better, right, but faculty
development you never stoplearning right, and you should
continue to learn even whenyou're done with your career
yeah, and so you're also doingthis um gamification.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, it's called, is that right?
Gamified learning, yeah,gamified learning, and so are
you.
Is that going to be umconnected with them teaching?
That I love that idea.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
It could be.
I hadn't thought about in thatspace yet.
Um, it totally could be.
Thank you, nicole, you gave mea new project.
I love it, yes I love it um,yeah, so we, I am huge into what
they call quote-unquote activelearning.
Um, I loved it when I was astudent when it was just hitting
okay, aging myself, like so I'm33.
I was in college from 10 to 13.
(30:16):
It was just kind of hitting thescenes then of you know, people
starting to do games in classand jeopardy and all these other
things that were like builtinto education right, and I
loved it then and I was like Iloved learning like that.
Having a little bit of acompetitive thread throughout
really helped me applyinformation.
When I got to a place where I'mteaching now, one of the things
(30:38):
I like to do is saying okay,topics, a lot of topics.
I teach in the first year ofmedical school, so I teach
biochemistry and what that means.
It's fancy, really intricatedetails about what's happening
inside of your cells.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Things that Nicole doesn't know.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Things that most people don't know, and I would
argue, things that you need toknow as a doctor, but you need
to know them in application,maybe not in the granular detail
that I did as a scientist.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, I care a lot more if you know about
physiology and how the body isworking than I do if you can
tell me about this metabolismpathway, but yet I need you to
know that so you know how drugswork as a doctor Fair.
So a lot of what we've beentrying to do then is saying,
okay, I know this material maybeisn't the most exciting, but
how can we make it exciting foryou?
(31:23):
How can we take this materialand say, okay, we've taught you
it, now let's apply it in a realworld scenario?
And so one of the things when Itook over part of our teaching
for the first year, I asked myfaculty.
I was like, hey, can I make anescape game?
And they looked at me like Ihad three heads because they're
like why would we do that?
And I was like here's all theliterature that shows.
(31:48):
There's tons of work thatpeople have done out there about
giving escape games to studentsin health professions education
and showing that it not onlyenhances their enjoyment of
learning the material, but itdoes help with retention of that
information.
So I.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I think that I see our background folks summer.
Do you know what an escape gameis on the computer?
I do not.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Okay, let's let's say , because I didn't know what
that was game is on the computer.
I do not.
Okay, let's say what that waseither.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
And when.
So I played your escape.
No, but it's sort of like it'son the computer.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Escape room on the computer I played the game you
sent played in the sense that Iwouldn't have been able to get
it correct, except you gave methe answers.
But I walked through it.
Science was my worst in schoolit's okay, you know it's okay.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Um, english was my worst, which was probably one of
your stronger which was mymajor.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, yeah, okay, so no, it's for whatever that was.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
This is why we're friends, nicole this is why
we're friends okay, so explainwhat an escape yeah so have you
ever like done an escape room?
Like you go to a place I'm?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
terrified of an escape because you get locked
inside.
Yes, I'll never get out.
I won't be clever enough to getout, in fairness my deepest
fear.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Totally get that um.
Do you?
You're a big reader.
Do you read abby jimenez's book?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
no, but I might need to okay, you need to so say.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
You'll remember me.
Just came out.
Lovely there.
To not spoiler pause if you'rereading this right now, there is
an element of it where they gettrapped in an escape room
overnight.
Because it could happen ahundred times and, honestly, the
way they tell it in the story.
I'm like, yeah, that couldhappen.
That could definitely happen.
But you need to read the book.
It's lovely.
I just love her writing.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
It's just great.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I love puzzles.
I think puzzles are great.
I love a good board game.
I think a good game is great.
And so what we wanted to do istake some of those elements and
bring them into education andbring them into a science-y
context.
So what we wanted to do is sosome of the lectures I had to
teach is what's calledself-signaling, ie how do
(33:45):
signals from the outside of yourcell transfer to the inside of
your cell and tell it what to do?
Okay, the answer is there's alot of different pathways and a
lot of different intermediateand a lot of different things
that the meta students need toknow.
Okay, and they need to know,like, how does it get in the
cell and what's the cell made of, and all those fun things.
And so we took this material andmy goal was to set up puzzles
(34:06):
that tested said material.
That's what you saw online.
Yes, so first year we did this.
We actually printed it and Ihad them work in like small
groups at tables and do it.
But then I realized I killedlike so many trees, having to
print this thing becauseeveryone needed a different
packet.
It was a whole thing and I waslike, so I didn't want to kill
the trees this year, so the oneyou've played is the new and
improved version.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
It was very fancy, I like that.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, it looked good.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I'm not going to take all the credit for that and I'm
going to tell you how I made it.
Ok, I was wondering.
I was like, did Steph do this?
Thank you for thinking.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
I did.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
She's really good at software stuff.
No, no, no.
There are so many amazingonline tools now, so the
platform I was using completelyfree to use to plop things into.
It's based for educators.
It's great, um, can you dolinks in your podcast?
Yeah, great, I'm gonna give youthe link for it.
(34:59):
It's great.
Every educator should haveaccess to this thing.
Um, but all the material thatwent into it.
I actually had ChatGPT help memake it.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
We love ChatGPT.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Because we love ChatGPT.
I love ChatGPT.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
It's been mentioned in like the last three or four
episodes.
I love that.
I love that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
So, and actually I'm working on a um paper right now
with one of my friends that's upin Michigan about how can we
use ChatGPT to make games ineducation, and they have to do a
series of puzzles that use allthat knowledge that they learned
in class to collect keys asthey go throughout an abandoned
(35:38):
hospital.
And when they get to thisabandoned hospital, in the
basement there's this chest thatthey have to use their four
keys to get a code.
And then the chest opens andgives them like a science prize.
So that was the last code.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yes, that I forgot to give you.
I couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
It's okay.
I hope they'll be able to.
Last year they did.
We'll see.
We'll see.
I'm sure they can.
But I'm glad at least you gotto that point because that means
my, my like building of it wentright.
Yeah so that's a solid checkmark.
So they're going to get to dothis next week Cool, and it's
going to be all the first yearmed students get to hang excited
.
We're gonna have them work inlittle teams, um, and I think
(36:15):
you you probably saw this, onething I built into it this year
that we didn't used to have wascharacters yes, characters so
each character gets their ownlike special hint if they're
part of the team, so kind of tohelp you solve the puzzles or
know like is the password allcapitals or you know, just clues
, clues, to make it a little biteasier.
Then you get a little clue togo with your person, um, but
(36:36):
yeah.
So we're gonna get to do thisnext week, but yeah.
So our whole goal was to takethis like science concepts and
test it, what we call like aformative assessment, meaning
they're not getting graded on it.
In a way that's fun, that theycan apply the knowledge and then
use it to ultimately escape.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Escape yeah, the room I.
I think that would be reallybeneficial because I feel like I
learn in a mysterious way, likeI haven't quite figured it out,
like I have to like readbackground stuff and then kind
of apply it and then like talkabout it again.
Yeah, totally, and it like thatis not how you learn in law
school or in undergrad, like anyof it and so.
(37:15):
I've always kind of likestruggled with that and whenever
I've been in charge of liketraining people, I always want
to know, like how do you learn,yeah, and like can we adjust for
that learning style, becauseoften people get written off
because they don't learn oh, forsure traditional way and that
is not fair and it's completelygatekeeping.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
So I feel like, yeah, I feel like it's love, that
good to be exploring new ideasand options yeah, and especially
like when you're in educate,like when you're in training,
still there's, I think you getforced to learn a certain way,
whether you're in medical school, you're an undergraduate,
you're in law school.
There there's structure andthere's certain ways that you
(37:56):
have to learn to be successful,right, and it's not always
aligned for everyone.
I talk with a lot of firstyears about retraining their
learning strategies, becausewhat works to be a really good
science major as an undergraddoes not work in medical school
especially.
Our curriculum is what we callintegrated, where it builds on
each other throughout the year.
(38:17):
So in college I'm sure you didthis, I did this.
You learn something and thenyou throw it out of your brain
to make room for the next thingTerrible habits, right.
As an educator now I'm likedon't do that.
But in medical school it'sreally like in our curriculum,
you can't do that because youneed that knowledge for the next
thing.
And when they start, sometimesthey're not used to learning
(38:38):
like that.
It's a different style oflearning.
But definitely in the workforcethat is one thing.
When I had staff in the lab, Ialways loved talking with them.
I'm like okay, how do you learn, how do you want to receive
information, and what ways doyou want to tell me information
back?
Do you want to meet in person?
Do you want to meet in person?
Do you want to have thiswritten down?
Do you want to have this videorecorded?
(38:59):
I'm like I don't care what itis, but I want you to make sure
that you feel like you're takingin the things we're talking
about.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And I feel very strongly about that, that it's
the teacher, the trainer, thementor's responsibility to
initiate that conversation andto adjust for the person that's
learning, because you're thereto serve that person.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
They're not there to serve you yeah, and I I think
that gets mixed up quite a bitoh, for sure, and I think people
forget, like, and it's alsothose things can change, I think
that's the other thing is thatpeople think that that, like,
your learning style is static,which is, like, totally not the
case.
Okay, I don't know that.
I fully knew that.
Yeah, oh my gosh, you cantotally A learn new ways to
(39:41):
learn.
You can train yourself, andthis is what I have my students
do.
I was like you're used tostudying XYZ way.
Let's talk about other studystrategies that are maybe better
for this type of integrativelearning.
What works for you?
And I always tell them like youhave to be okay.
Knowing something is failingyou Is that you don't want to
keep like digging your hole andyour hole gets deeper and it's
(40:01):
not working for you.
You need to be able to stop,reflect, kind of step away from
the moment and say this is notworking.
I either need help or I need toredefine.
And what I've talked to a lotof when I've worked with staff
over the years is saying, okay,what maybe works for you right
now, as you grow and as youlearn, maybe something else
might be better.
So that was always part of mylike yearly reviews with people
(40:22):
of like, okay, is this still thesame way that you still want to
do information?
Do we want to make changes?
Do we want to adjust any ofthis?
Because you just grow and youlearn.
But I see it all the time instudents.
It's amazing watching like aday one medical student and like
when they get done with theirfirst year before they like go
off to the wards and like arelike clinical people.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Whole different people like whole different
learning strategies, wholedifferent learners, whole
different people, and it's greatthey have so much growth that
first year.
So kind of taking us back alittle bit from a moment, so
(41:06):
kind of taking us back a littlebit from a moment, if you were
speaking to a girl in middleschool, high school, who had
some interest in science oranything related.
What advice would you give toher?
I think and this comes back towhat we were talking to about
knowing when to say yes I thinkone of the biggest things I
would advise on is tryeverything at least once.
If you're interested in it andyou want to go try it, go do it.
Don't let the fear of it oh,only the boys are doing that, or
(41:27):
my friends aren't doing that.
At the end of the day, you needto go try it for yourself and
see if you like it, Because youmay find that, oh, I love that.
Or you may experience it and belike actually don't love that,
how I thought I did.
And so I think, when you'reyoung and you're learning and
you're experiencing, I thinkit's really important to put
yourself out there and say, OK,I'm going to try these different
things, even if me and myfriends aren't doing it, with me
(41:47):
, Solo life journeys.
And then I think later on andsaying, once you start to know
what you like and what you don'tlike, you can start making more
informed choices.
And I feel like that's how Igot to say, okay, I wanted to be
a science major and I wanted togo to graduate school and I
wanted to stay in academia andwork in a lab is because I had
experiences where I couldpurposefully close some doors
(42:11):
and say that's not my path but,also have experience to say I'm
informed to make the nextdecision because then you feel
empowered to do it.
yeah, um, thinking about me alsojust as like a young scientist
and like a young female in aover overly male dominated
workplace where I've always been, I have never found that as a
(42:33):
negative in my world.
A I've.
I've had good mentors, and so Ithink I come from a place of
privilege, knowing that I've hadgood mentors who have also
supported me and protected meand given me space to grow that
I needed as a young femalescientist.
But I would never I wouldalways want to tell other women
is that just because you're theonly girl in the room should not
(42:53):
stop you.
It doesn't change anything foryou, but it maybe changes how
much you have to speak up.
It maybe changes how you needto advocate for yourself and
finding mentors, but itshouldn't change the fact that
you want to try and you want tobe there.
You shouldn't give up becauseof that factor.
Right, if you try it and youhate it, it is also okay to say
(43:19):
no, I'm not going to do that,even if you are the only female
in the room, because you'redoing the right thing for you
and you got to, I think, alsoquestion yourself saying do I
not like this because I actuallydon't like it and it's like
truly not my journey, or do Inot like this because of some
external influence?
I'm seeing that maybe shouldn'tbe part of my decision process
(43:42):
Right.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Maybe it's the environment, not the actual
thing that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, I know I've done that in my career is that
maybe the environment's a littletoxic and you're like I'm going
to say no to XYZ thing becauseof that, and in reality, it
maybe would have been a goodthing if you could have changed
those factors.
And I think there are somefactors and some barriers like
that that are changeable, andthen also there's some that
aren't.
And that's where I think yourmentors come into play.
(44:08):
Is being able to talk with themsaying is this a modifiable
barrier or is this like a?
This is set in stone, this isnot changing, right, and are you
okay with that?
Speaker 1 (44:17):
And that can be really hard to discern.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, and sometimes you don't know, and sometimes
you get in and you're like, ohwait, that's a non-movable
barrier, that's a non-starterand it's never going to change.
And then you get to decide andsaying, okay with that.
How do you want to respond?
I?
Speaker 1 (44:32):
how do you want to respond?
I think that's great advice.
I'm going to ask you anotherquestion now.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Please tell me everything.
What are you obsessing over?
Lately, I feel like my currentobsession.
Well, my year, my.
So my goal for this year was toread, or read, listen to a
hundred audiobooks.
Yes, how are we doing?
We're okay, we're a a littlebehind schedule.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
I think I'm at like 49 right now.
We're uh, we're in August okay,we're at August.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
we're at August 2nd now, so I'm behind.
I'm behind, okay, and so,knowing I'm behind, the question
is is do I just pick up a bunchof small books and get back on
track?
That's what I was thinking, I'mlike.
Is that cheating?
I don't think that's cheating,but then my average page count
is going to plummet.
And also, I have a son and weread a lot of books at home.
(45:25):
Do I get to add Crinkle CrinkleLittle Car to the list?
Maybe it's like, depending onhow long they are, you combine
them to be one book To one book,yes, but like I have read
crinkle, crinkle little carevery night twice at least for
six months.
So that is like at least 500pages of crinkle, crinkle little
(45:46):
car at this point um that iswhat he is obsessing, and that
is what he is obsessing over umbedtime books with mom is what
we're obsessing over um.
But yeah, so you know, I thinkit's one of those things like
when you set goals like that foryourself, like I knew it was
gonna be a reach yeah but alsoI'm okay if I don't meet that
goal because I know I'm likeI've read a lot of books this
year and I've learned a lot ofthings and I've enjoyed it and I
(46:09):
don't want to not enjoy myaudiobook time.
So I think I'm just gonna keepon keeping on and see where I
end up because, like, fall'scoming, yeah, cozy fall, with
like a nice warm drink, it'stime to watch Gilmore Girls.
Time to watch Gilmore Girls.
Time to like sip my audiobookand read a little bit.
Like my my time is coming.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yes, summer's a little less it's like the fall
into winter, is hibernation modeso like that's when you read a
lot anyway, it's cozy season andI love being cozy.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, that is my favorite thing in the world.
Yeah, so I, you know, I thinkthat's what I've been sussing
over of like, does the numbermatter and like, do the metrics
along with that number actuallymatter?
Because, also, like you, areobsessing, oh my god.
But also here's the thing,nicole, who sees this?
But, like my three friends thatare on my goodreads with me,
like yeah, nobody sees this.
(46:57):
Nobody's judging me, nobodywould care.
But in my mind I had set a goaland I have not achieved.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Oh my gosh, well, I am obsessing over escape to the
country.
Oh no, tell me all about it.
Okay, it's on the BBC watch itwith the uh, my mom and I watch
it together, and so when I'mlike kind of stressed and I just
want something like very calmin the background, that's what I
put on.
(47:24):
It's a bunch of like britishpeople being like I can't stand
the city anymore, I need toescape to the country, yes, and
then they go very like calmly,like through it's not house
hunters, like it is very calm,and in the end, most of the time
they don't buy any of thehouses.
It's just like we're justperusing, yeah, and they're like
(47:45):
we hope that they findsomething in the future yeah, I
just I'm like I love it that'sso funny.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
That's also so different, I feel like, than
americanized television, likeall those house shows, like
somebody told me once thatthey're all staged yeah, they
are.
It's like they've actuallyalready bought the house and one
of the houses is their actualhouse.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I know two people who were on House Hunters, one
international and one inMinneapolis, and it is staged.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
That is so disappointing to me, but also
for practicality purposes,totally get it yeah totally get
it, totally get for practicality, purposes.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Totally get it.
Yeah, totally get it, totallyget it.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Um.
So did you bring arecommendation for our audience?
So, because I've been on thisaudiobook kick.
Yes, I think we've talked aboutthis in the past we definitely
have.
My favorite app in the world islibby, okay.
So if you don't already have it, everyone should have libby,
which I do.
We figured out, I do have great,good good so it connects your
local library card and not onlycan you get ebooks on it for
freeze, you can get audiobookson it for freeze, yes, which is
(48:43):
great for somebody like mebecause, like I used to be like
an exclusive audible person.
Or, and also, did you know, youhave audiobooks on your Spotify
if you, yes, I did okay.
So nobody failed.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Nobody told me this till recently this is where I
listened to my really badrom-com.
Oh, I love that, yes.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
I'm all about a bad rom-com.
It's great.
Um, and also I love it onSpotify because you don't like
Libby.
The one downside is that, muchlike the library, you have to
wait for a hold.
If it's not available, it'sfine.
Um, onify, you have what islike 15 hours a month or
something yes, something likethat, and I have hit that before
.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Oh, I hit it frequently.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Um, but I because I listen to my audiobooks.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Now I listen at like 2.2, 2.3 or 5x, so it's like you
can listen to more love thatfor myself, but I just love
libby.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I think it's such a great app to like make books
more accessible to people andtake them with you, versus
paying 15 20 bucks a month tohave one book.
Yeah, um, that is not like thatwould be unsustainable for a
hundred audiobooks a year, butlibby is making my dreams a
reality.
That's's great.
Yes, so that's my rec for you.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
I love that.
My recommendation Ooh, tell me,tell me, I had to write it down
.
It's the Resetter podcast.
Ooh, it's the July 28th episode, called Four Simple Lifestyle
Tweaks for Deeper Sleep inParametopause.
And I almost didn't say theparametopause part because I
actually think this is just likegood for anybody.
I'm not in perimenopause, incase you're wondering um, but
(50:19):
it's really good.
There's like this summer I'mjust like laughing.
Okay, I love it.
Um, but it has really goodrecommendations for sleep and
like how important sleep is tolike refresh your brain, which
for the longest time, I thoughtthere was just something wrong
(50:42):
with me, where I'm like I justcan't think anymore.
I'm going to sleep and I'llwake up feeling better and I'll
know the answer.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Oh yeah, I was like that's a me problem?
Speaker 1 (50:49):
No, that's just like a human problem.
Oh, cool yeah.
So something I learned fromthis podcast Very good.
Big fan of sleep um stuff.
If someone wants to learn moreabout what you've talked about
or reach out to you, where canthey find you?
Speaker 2 (51:03):
so this is going to be like such a science thing.
So everything that we've talkedabout, we're working on putting
into like a shareable format.
Cool, so like.
If you google me, it shouldcome up once it's published, so
give it three to six months.
But I also there are websitesthat cover a lot of what we do
(51:25):
and also just reaching out.
A lot of how we makeconnections in our field is
literally just by our emails.
Is that if people want accessto things and they want to hear
about the work we're doing,especially in the education
space, we just email each other.
Like.
It's very much a like if we,for example, I have a
biochemistry escape game, if myfriend who maybe listens to this
(51:46):
lovely podcast or like, knowsthat they teach biochemistry and
they want it, great, I willgladly send you the link.
It is a very open and friendlyenvironment for educators.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
I will link to like your Instagram or whatever we
decide after.
Perfect, so thank you so muchfor being here, steph.
Thanks for having me, nicole,thanks for listening.
If you guys could subscribe tothe YouTube, that'd be super
helpful, and maybe even leave areview and we'll see you next
week.
Thanks for listening to myCrunchy Zen Era.
Please subscribe and leave areview and we'll see you next
(52:17):
week.
Thanks for listening to mycrunchy zen era.
Please subscribe and leave areview wherever you listen to
your podcasts.
This podcast is produced by me,nicole Swisher and my good
friends Summer Harkup and LizColter.
Editing is by Drew HarrisonMedia and recording is done by
Lagos Creative in Nashville,tennessee.
Thanks for hanging out.
We'll be back next week.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.