July 3, 2025 • 51 mins
Ever wonder why your golf game stubbornly refuses to improve despite years of play? You're not alone. In this fascinating conversation with Dr. Ken McGowan, owner of East Main Dental and lifelong golfer, we explore the frustrating plateau that haunts so many recreational players.
"I've probably shot between 82 and 88 for the last 25 years," Dr. McGowan confesses, echoing a sentiment familiar to countless golfers. The discussion quickly turns to a profound yet simple truth: embracing your natural tendencies might be more important than forcing textbook techniques. Our resident golf professional shares why fighting against your natural shot shape often leads to worse results, not better ones.
We dive into the psychology behind pre-shot routines, course management strategies, and why aiming for center-green rather than pin-hunting might dramatically lower your scores. The conversation takes an illuminating turn when examining the overwhelming world of online golf instruction. "There's so much fake news out there," our guest notes, as we explore when YouTube tutorials help and when they become a confusing maze of contradictory advice.
Parents will particularly appreciate Dr. McGowan's candid admission about introducing his daughters to golf: "I'll admit it was a little self-serving. I just hoped they would take to it so I could get to the golf course a little more often." This opens a heartwarming discussion about family golf, the OP36 development program, and creating meaningful experiences on the course with children.
Whether you're struggling with consistency, contemplating lessons, or simply looking for practical ways to enjoy the game more, this episode delivers insights that will resonate with golfers of all skill levels. Tune in to discover why accepting the "horse that showed up" might be the key to unlocking your best golf.
Subscribe now and join our growing community of passionate golfers seeking more enjoyment and better scores without the technical overwhelm.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to the MyGolfSource podcast.
Welcome to MyGolfSource.
I'm Darren and I'm Noah.
What's new in your world, man?
We've been planning tournaments, the weather's man.
We've been playing intournaments, the weather's been
great.
You've been out of town.
I've been out of town.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
It's just good to be back home out of the humidity.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Tennessee right.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, we were in Nashville for a week, and what a
cool town.
Have you been there?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I have not.
What's the best golf course youplayed while you were there?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
There was this awesome miniature golf course in
Franklin that I took my kids toNoah Horseman marked this date.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
He didn't even take his golf clubs with him.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
There was a golf course across the street from
the state park where the familyreunion was, and I was just
salivating the whole time.
That's alright, family will dothat to you.
I get it.
Yeah, no, you know what?
The miniature golf waswork-related, because I'm
looking at that being anotheroption here in the golf garage
area that would be cool.
(01:15):
Not to let the cat out of thebag, but there's some things up
that could be a benefit in thePhoenix, the greater Phoenix
Oregon area.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So how did you do a miniature golf?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
just putting on degrading artificial turf and
yeah, there was a really bighornet on the second hole so we
almost bypassed that one and weplayed at 12 o'clock um in june
and I would highly not recommendthat in the nashville area.
Humidity, the humidity was five, and 105%.
(01:47):
Yeah, I made one hole in one sothat was good and my kids had a
good time and there it wasreally cool because there was a
miniature golf course and it wasbuilt on a hillside so there
were slopes on just about everyhole downhill, uphill couldn't
get the ball to stop and it wasthe most unique miniature golf
course that I probably everplayed.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It wasn't about the windmills.
I remember this one in Ventura,California called golf and
stuff.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And they had this cave you had to put through and
it was a 90 degree turn in thecave and every time you'd walk
through that cave it would smelllike pee, because little kids
would go in there that's awesomestory, awful and, and that's
what I think about, that's thememory that comes back when I
think about miniature golf isn'tgolf and stuff where the karate
(02:35):
kid was filmed like, isn't thatwhere he took the girl on the
date?
I think it was golf and stuff itwas a golf and stuff must have
been.
Is that a franchise?
Or is it the one in Venturalike the only one?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
The only one I've ever heard of was on the Karate
Kid, which is why I was thinkingof it.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, exactly, we have Family Fun Center locally,
though we do, and they're good.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
We do.
Miniature golf was the onlygolf I ever played until I was
over 30.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Is that right?
It's true, so you're reallygood, then, relative to the
amount of time that you'veplayed, it's a lot harder as an
adult to pick up the game.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Tell me that after we play 18 holes together next
week.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I'm so excited.
Yeah, so pro-am coming up, I'mactually going to start working
on the game.
This year Made a consciouseffort to get a little healthier
and get back into the gym andget the swing speed up.
So that's the plan.
But, yeah, are you ready for it?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I am, I am.
We just got back from a week atbar run.
My son and I played two roundsat bar run and then one round at
Roseburg Country Club.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Good.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It was great, great experience.
Bar run, bar run the day Tobyand I just played together.
We both shot.
I had a good front nine and arough back nine on Tuesday.
Then on Thursday, I had a roughfront nine and a good back nine
.
It was the opposite and weplayed with two caddies that
(04:02):
were over on their day off fromBandon Dunes.
So fun.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Do you have new caddies for the next time you go
over?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
No.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
No, maybe not.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Maybe not, maybe not.
I mean, they were super coolkids.
I love these kids who are sopassionate about golf.
They'll literally carry bags on32 holes a day and then on
their day off, they'll drive twohours and go play golf 36 holes
a day, 36 holes a day.
There we go.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, we're for sure I mean match play.
Maybe we crush somebody.
Get it done, let's do it 32.
Yeah, so also we've got a goodjunior golfer that's going to be
playing with us that you'regoing to enjoy.
All right, if he doesn't shoot68 out there, it's probably an
issue.
And then our good friend Mikeis going to be playing with us.
(04:52):
So two photographers going tobe hitting it up on the same
team.
I love it.
Team Photo Bomb.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
All right, yeah, he takes pictures of people though.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
For fun.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
For fun, that's awesome.
You prefer the still life?
I do.
I prefer inanimate objects,yeah, and and if it's if it's
people, it better come with ahefty price tag on it.
So the only thing I like to dowith houses hit golf balls over
them, maybe through them youneed to start a bryson de
chambeau video where you need toput a pool ring in your pool
(05:26):
out in the front yard and thenhit from the lawn in your
backyard.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
What if I hit it over a golf garage instead?
See, that would be way betterthan what Bryson did Get.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Garrison's next door to sponsor it where you hit off
a Garrison's roof.
No, you drop a golf ball on oneof their couches that they got
for sale.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
That's a really good idea, and you can video it.
Yes, use your drone, yes,capture it like that.
Speaking of people with clubhead speed, we have a guest on
the show today that's going tobe not just your average doctor.
He also knows how to swing thebig stick.
(06:05):
He does, yeah.
So we uh, you know we're goingto get some other professionals
on the show here, probably inthe upcoming weeks.
Um, I know my friend, don law,wants to be on the show from
he's retired golf Academy.
National youth playerdevelopment award winner.
Worked with um drive, chip andputt champions, tour players, um
(06:26):
, all caliber golfer.
So I'm really excited abouthaving him on because he's next
level.
Um, and now that he's retired,I think all he's doing is bass
fishing in florida.
but he's got playing golf well,but he's got family in oregon so
we might have him on live andwe were talking about that and
that'll be in august.
That'd be cool.
Still working on trying to getJibo on the show would be really
, really cool.
(06:46):
Bryson's caddy.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
He's just starting to kind of slow down in life a
touch.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
I, yeah, man, that guy just goes.
I can't imagine carrying a bagthat big for that guy who needs
everything in it.
Not only is he, playing.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Not only is Jibo playing, you know, with Bryson
during all of his tournaments,but he's in most of his YouTube
videos and all of his fun stufftoo.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, so he's like they're literally connected at
the hip yeah, I think you'd haveto be, because you know
Bryson's personality trait is,you know, wanting to know the
answer now.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So I think if we get Jibo on the show, bryson will be
on the show by default, becausethey're just that would be
awesome.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I, we should.
I think we should challengethat, see if it can happen.
All right, no, it's awesome.
So, yeah, I think, withoutfurther ado, I think we need to
bring on Dr Ken McGowan.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Hey guys, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Love it.
Yeah, Owner of East main dentaland you know, kind of funny,
but um, that is where I grew upgoing to the dentist, I don't
know.
I told you that right, yeah,yeah you did, and you took over
the practice for my.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I was going to say we're all probably close to the
same age, right yeah, 41, 43 and40.
All right, you're the youngest,yeah, whatever, I think he's
rubbing it in our face.
That backfired on me real quick.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
So you played a little bit of golf growing up.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, I grew up playing golf.
I mean, all my family did andit was just something that I was
out there doing.
You know, five, six years old,just being with my dad and my
uncles and all that.
So with my dad and my unclesand all that.
Where did you grow up?
Ontario, Oregon, so Boise,Idaho area.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Some good golf over in that area that no one knows
about isn't there.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, there's some nice courses, especially in the
greater Boise area.
I mean, I grew up in kind of adirt weed track out there that
actually no longer exists.
I think they gave it upeventually.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
You and Lee Trevino actually no longer exists.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I think they they gave it up eventually.
So, uh, you and Lee Trevino,yeah, yeah.
Well, I don't know how much itbenefited me.
I feel like I've, uh, prettyshot pretty consistently the
same scores my whole life.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Not overly impressive , though, so yeah, but you know
it's kind of like sounds likeyou.
You took it up because of thefamily and then did you keep it
going after high school, justrecreationally.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
After high school I played three years in high
school and coincidentallyactually ended up graduating
early.
So I was ineligible for mysenior year and my coach was a
little upset about that Becausedid you go to?
state at all, I did not.
I kind of floated in the top ofthe jv ranks and then probably
(09:31):
would have been, you know,second or third spot varsity my
senior year if I had beeneligible to stick around and do
that.
But I was off to off to juniorcollege and just moving on with
life and yeah hard, uh hard tonot play golf when tiger woods
is.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
That is like ultimate right yeah, absolutely, because
that's I mean 97 masters.
You would have been 11 probably.
I was 12.
I'm like glued to the tv.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I mean it's like that got you out of baseball real
quick yeah, absolutely was yourdad a good golfer no, my dad was
never a good golfer, but I hadtwo uncles that um shot scratch
at various points in their lives.
How old were you when he beatyour dad?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
oh, probably 14 or 15 huh, sounds like a familiar
thing, how old he was he waslike 12, yeah, when he beat me
yeah, that was his main goal too.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Toby's main goal was to beat you.
Like that was literally likeall he cared about.
It was pretty funny.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
It's still all.
He cares about Not beating me,he just wants to beat Everybody,
everybody.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, that's a good goal when you're on the golf
course, isn't it.
Beat the golf course.
Yeah.
So, ken, obviously your kiddosare up and coming, and same age
as our girls, and we're friends.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And what got you to want to get them into golf?
Oh, I'll admit it was a littleself-serving.
I just kind of hoped they wouldtake to it so I could get to
the golf course a little moreoften.
It's a lot easier pitch to thewife that hey the girls and I
are going golfing versus hey,I'm going to be gone for half a
day.
That's a harder sell.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You get the kids on your own.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So it gives sir some downtime and uh.
So yeah, I put them into it,you know, hopeful but didn't
want to put too much pressure onthem and fortunately they
really took to it, they reallyenjoy it, they want to go.
It's just a fun time for us toget out and do that kind of
thing With all the programsavailable to us here at the Golf
(11:36):
Garage and around the Valley.
It's nice because we can getout and do the OP36, which is
really nice for them to startclose and kind of learn the, the
fundamentals and the importantpart of the game which, um, that
really resonated with mebecause I just grew up banging
balls on the range, just hitthem a bunch, which was fine and
(11:56):
had its merits.
But uh, at the same time, um, Ithink I wish I had a little
stronger base with a short gameand putting that that was, I
felt was really important yeahit's, it's an amazing concept.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Um, we've been growing the game from the green
backwards for a long time andthese two professionals from the
east coast their golf coursewas about to close and their pro
basically said you guys need tocome up with something,
otherwise we're shutting down.
And lo and behold, they came upwith this concept of OP36, and
(12:35):
that's what saved their club.
So player development saved thegolf course, and so my
background in coaching hasalways been to show golf courses
the appeal of playerdevelopment, and it's almost
been one of those things whereit's always been about
tournaments make money.
Well, no they don't.
Tournaments drive your staffcrazy and you get turnover
(12:57):
because of it, and yeah, sometournaments make money.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
general public who can't get a tee time on that
weekend?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
100%.
So there's a time and a placeto have tournaments, but it's
how many do you need and what isit really doing for you?
But what's really growing thegame is the impact of player
development, working from thegreen backwards, understanding
that you can shoot par from ayardage, and then that makes you
feel confident to then moveback and shoot par again.
(13:25):
And what I really like and Ithink I was very fortunate in
this is that the year we openedgolf garage, which will be a
year here this next week um,they started having indoor
operation 36 as a program.
I mean that is a game changer,because you also aren't going to
lose a golf ball.
Yeah, and that's theembarrassment factor.
(13:48):
Right, where's my ball?
Am I still away?
Oh, it took me too long.
So you fix all those things.
So I think there's a nicecombination I know our girls
like it as well of hitting inthe sim and then going on the
course and vice versa.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I think it's helpful.
I'm sure you can relate, though, I've spent more money in lost
golf balls and one round of golfthan what the round of golf
cost me with the cart.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Oh yeah, been there, done that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Not anymore.
You have the.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Kirkland's.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
That's right.
No yeah, it's hard to gothrough 90 bucks in Kirkland's.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
It's pretty funny, as we continue this podcast, how
much I know about this guyacross the way, like we did this
ball fitting a couple weeks agoand we had to test the kirkland
ball which I had maybe hit.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You were very apprehensive about it.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I was, and at the end of the day I was very impressed
at the value of that golf balland the quality, for the value
was amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
You know I I prefer to play with the premium tp5,
tp5x.
However, when I'm going out ona course that I know I'm going
to lose golf balls, I leave thetp5s in the back yeah and I go
shop and pay it $26.99 for twodozen at Costco.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, you caught me.
So he was telling me howthey're $20 a dozen or something
like that and so I go intoCostco and see it and I was like
no, they're not, they're $26.99.
He's like that's for two dozen.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And he's like no, it's not, it's one box.
And I said yes, it's one box.
And I said yes, did you noticehow tall the box is?
I think it is yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
He's like they don't sell anything.
A dozen at Costco.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I was laughing.
They don't do anything small atCostco.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
So good, so true, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, ken, now that your girlsare starting to get into it and
you know obviously, like yousaid, getting to go play a
little bit more, you know doesdoes it seem to be happening for
you as?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
yeah, yeah, a little bit.
I mean, especially, like I said, with some of those events like
the op 36 things and some ofthe LPGA stuff they can do, um,
I just like to be out there onthe course, even if I'm not
playing, but I'll do the op 36with them just to be out there
doing it.
But uh, yeah, I think as theydevelop into it more and um, you
(16:08):
know, are more and moreinterested.
I really envision our life ashey going on a family vacation
and we're going to incorporatesome golf into that which I
never really could do before,cause that is just, that was
time away from the family andthat doesn't make sense.
But now it's like, okay, thiscan be part of our adventure
together and I think that'll bereally exciting moving forward
(16:31):
with that.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
So while you're in your adult life playing golf, we
all get frustrated with ourgame.
It's a frustrating frankly,it's an infuriating sport, but
we can't let it go.
What frustrated you the most?
And is that still true today?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Well, I would say over the years I've had a lot of
things.
Frustrate me with golf islooking back and seeing myself
play for so many years and feellike I haven't progressed very
much.
I played this game since I wasa little kid and I've probably
shot between 82 and 88 for thelast 25 years.
(17:20):
It's like at some point,something should change and I
should get better.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Biggest struggle was it from the t-box on the
fairways, always gettingyourself into trouble.
Was it poor putting?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
combinations of all of that and um and at different
times and at different times.
Some days I'm putting lightsout and it's just keeping me
from having a horrible roundbecause everything else is in
the in the garbage.
And then there's other dayswhere it's like, man, I could
hit any fairway I wanted to, butI can't get the ball on the
green to save my life.
You know it.
Just it depends day to day.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So much it's funny.
Speaking of getting the ballson onto the green at bar run.
It was on hole hole 18, and thepin placement was only about
three yards onto the grain.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
And.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I was 30 yards from the pin in the rough and I got
out my 69-degree wedge and Ipopped at this beautiful little
shot that landed about a footshort of the pin, checked up,
stopped about three inches fromthe pin Awesome and the caddies
(18:31):
we were playing with their jawsabout hit the ground and they're
like, with a few choice words,what in the world did you just
hit?
Let me see that wedge.
They'd never seen anything likeit.
And I didn't tell them.
They were just shocked at howthe ball't tell them they're.
They were just shocked at howthe ball responded yep, and
they're like I don't get it.
Let me see what.
What did you just hit?
And I said, oh, it's my secretweapon and I handed them the
(18:55):
club and they just laughed andlaughed and they're like how
many clubs do you have in yourback?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
like 16, yeah right, because I'm allowed to.
That's.
That's pretty cool, yeah, Ithink.
Uh, you know when you, when youlook at the things that you get
frustrated about in golf.
I was just working with um he'sprobably about our age as well
and he was a D one collegeplayer, um, and it was unique
(19:25):
because he just kind of movedinto the area for work and he
basically had a lesson everyweek in his adult life from a
different professional, anywherehe lived, and so I think he's
had like five swing coaches andfive different opinions and five
different swing thoughts.
And so I think he's had likefive swing coaches and five
different opinions and fivedifferent swing thoughts.
(19:47):
And so he looked me up andwe've had three lessons together
and in that time we've donesome chipping right.
So, started small.
I really wanted to get to knowhim, knowing he's a good player,
see where his motion was, knewthat was a problem for him, fit
him for new wedges, got those in, gave him some stuff, right.
But I didn't rush the processand, um, today it was really
(20:10):
unique because he's like what doyou want to work on to me?
And I'm like, whoa, hold on asecond, this isn't about me,
right?
So what?
What is it that you need towork on?
And uh, it was like one thingto another thing, to another
thing.
So, immediately, I'm trying tofigure out what all these
thoughts mean, you know, andwhat are we actually going to
(20:32):
work on today to get you towhere you need to be, where
you're comfortable when youleave this place?
So I watch him hit a couple ofshots and I'm like, what shot
shape do you want to hit?
And he's like just looked at mewith a blank stare, like what,
what do you mean?
(20:53):
You're supposed to tell me whatI should be doing, kind of a
thing.
And so ultimately I said, like,what do you want to hit with
this club?
Well, I'll, I'll hit a cut, butbut what I want to do is hit a
draw.
And I said, well, what do youwant to hit?
So you want to hit a draw,right?
So ultimately, after literallyfour minutes, he told me what he
(21:15):
wanted to do with the golf ball.
And so I said, do you know howto hit a draw?
Well, yeah, I said okay, well,now I want you to not think
about your swing and I want youto hit a draw.
So he sets up super exaggeratedto hit this draw, and so I
watched one.
And that's what I do, and Ipull it yeah.
Well, but he, he hits it wayright and it drew, and it wasn't
(21:39):
an overcooked, but it, and itwas like hey, so that's a great
draw, isn't it?
But it didn't start where youwanted to.
So how are you going to startit better?
Didn't say another thing,started better, right.
So he tries and kind of doesthe same thing, and I said so, I
don't think it's your golfswing, that's the issue.
It's that maybe you're notquite sure how to aim with your
(22:00):
eyes properly when you'resetting up.
I said so, number one, you know, we could use an alignment
stick, bum, and teach you how toaim with your eyes today, and
then we're going to go off ofthat.
So then I did it, and then Istart talking to somebody in a
bay and let him practice for aminute, and then he gets it.
I said did you hit one?
(22:24):
Good?
And he said yeah.
So we kind of go down this patha little bit and at the end of
it all, I basically had to goback to the fundamental of do
you know how to align your clubface properly to the target and
then align your body.
And he doesn't think that way.
He's like, oh yeah, well, thatthat makes sense, right?
So I was like some of this isyou have a really good golf
swing already.
Most golfers have an okay golfswing, right, and what happens
(22:44):
is they see a shot they don'tlike and they instantly try to
change and correct that based onthe result of the shot, instead
of taking it for what it waswas a golf shot out of the
million golf shots you're goingto hit in your life, and so
sometimes we have to be patientwith a round or two or three
(23:04):
before we start makingadjustments to what our golf
swing is, because our golfswings are golf swing, but most
likely there's something goingon with a basic fundamental.
So if you can get it airbornedecently, like Ken, you're a
really good golfer, like youreally are, like you hit it,
you're in the top 10 percentmaybe even better than that in
the world of all golfers,because of what you can shoot,
score wise and I've in watchingyou hit it, you hit it as good
(23:28):
as a guy that can shoot scratch.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
It's just a matter of if you can control the ball
that day yeah, and just havingthat consistency, um, and, like
you said, breaking it down tofundamentals.
So I would love to get to aposition where I know what my,
my swing thoughts and my umbasics should be, so that, like
(23:52):
you said, things start gettingoff the rails a little bit, it's
like okay, let's slow it down,get back to what I should be
doing.
Because, like I said, if thingsstart getting off the rails a
little bit, it's like okay,let's slow it down, get back to
what I should be doing.
Because, like you said, it'sconsistency.
I've never had really an issuewith distance or really.
I mean, it's never like oneaspect where I'm like man, I
just can't do this or that, Ican do any of it, but on
(24:13):
different days.
So you talk a lot about.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
What do you want your shot shape to be?
What do you want your shot tolook like?
Is there a default shot shapethat every unique individual has
, or is it something that'strained?
Because there's times I feellike I naturally, when I'm
striking the ball, well, Inaturally hit a cut.
(24:36):
Yep, um, I would.
There's times where I want tohit a really hard power, fade
around on a dog leg.
There's times where I wouldkill to be able to hit a draw,
and every time I set up to hit adraw, I end up pulling it and
(24:57):
it draws, but it starts out sofar left, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, so that's.
That's a little bit of a loadedquestion.
It depends on the day and howyou get out of bed.
Right, your body is going toallow you to make a golf swing
or it's not right.
So at the end of the day, um, Ilike from from the experience
at least I've had trainingbetter players there's a shot
shape that they like right.
(25:23):
So if I'm going out on the golfcourse and I have a go to like
right now and I'm playing good,my ball is going to fall about
two feet left, okay, and I'mgoing to hit it by most people
straight to a baby draw.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Baby draw.
But if I'm with the driver andI need to put it in play, you're
going to see me hit a five yardcut.
I can pipe it with a five yardcut all day.
So at the end of the day, it'sknowing what it is, and it's a
low cut relative to my ballflight when I'm ripping it.
So I think it's it's.
Do you know what your shotshape is?
(25:57):
Is really the question, right?
And then how do you find thatout?
Well, you need to go see yourprofessional to find that out,
right?
The other thing you can do isdon't fight.
You know the horse that showedup that day, right?
So played in the juggernauttournament, which is the biggest
.
I would say it's probably thebiggest charity tournament in
(26:20):
Southern Oregon at this point,since they're donating to
charity now and, um, it's agreat event.
And one of the players I'dnever played with them before
and he normally hits a draw andhe's hitting a pole cut, but
he's fighting it beyond belief.
And we played in the par threecontest the first day.
(26:40):
So that was a blessing indisguise, because he did not hit
it very well at all.
And so we get on the range thenext morning and I'm like, hey,
let me watch you hit a coupleCause I just want to see if it's
different.
He's like, yeah, I don'tnormally hit the shot shape.
And I said that's fine.
I said let's take a look at it.
So he hits one, okay, and itfades.
And I said here's the deal,you're not going to change
anything in your golf swingtoday.
(27:02):
I said you need to know whatyour shot shape's doing for the
golf course, so I want you topay attention to where that ball
started and how much it moved.
And now you're going to playthat shot on the next one.
So don't fight it, let's play a10 yard fade today.
And guess what?
The next one was solid on theface because he'd allowed
(27:25):
himself to say it's okay to playthe shot.
That that's what I showed upwith.
And so and I said here's thefunny thing about this I said
throughout the day your shotshape could change depending on
if your body starts getting intosequence getting warmed up.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, maybe right, but just in general, getting
your sense of fear for the day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
So at the end of the turn his ball did start pulling
a little bit and I said you'rejust going to have to adjust to
that, so adapt to it.
He played for Boise State.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
He was a good football player too so he knew
how to adapt to situations, butin golf he didn't.
So let's get back to the real,real basics on this.
What's the basic principle inyour stance and your thought
process?
If you typically hit a fade,naturally if you want to set up
for a draw, drop your, drop yourright foot back a little bit.
(28:12):
Make sure the club face iscoming inside out.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
So that's a lot of mechanics in its own right.
There, just thinking about theclub face coming inside out is
not a thought that I wouldnecessarily give somebody to do
it.
What I would do is I wouldexplain more that you're turning
right and you're turning left.
Right, you're turning aroundyour spine Number one, can you
do that?
And then what you're doing isyou're setting up your club face
to where you want the ball toend up.
(28:37):
Well, if I want the ball to goto the hole, I'm going to always
set my club face up to the hole.
You're setting your body, yourstance, aligned to your start
line.
So your club face is going tolook really closed relative to
your body now, but your clubface is technically still at
your target.
And then you turn right and youturn left and if you can do
(28:59):
that, it's going to put leftspin on it as long as you swing
the way you normally swing.
The problem is some people comeover the top and across their
body because they can't turnefficiently anyway.
So just stepping back isn'tgoing to solve the problem.
They're going to have to learnhow to do a lot more than that.
So it might be training withouta golf club.
Right, it might be bodyawareness drills, it might be
(29:20):
things like that, just to getthem to do that properly.
I mean, ken, I mean we, weworked on driver that day.
Do you remember that a littlebit?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
So what was the biggest change?
Cause it was feel it wasultimate and I can't feel what
you feel exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I think, like you said, just finding that right
trigger for what you're tryingto accomplish, because that day
I was kind of swaying, I thinkwasn't turning.
Well, I was swaying my body andso I would kind of get
everything spun around.
I was kind of spun out, so iteither either weak to the right
(29:58):
or I was just pull hooking it tothe left.
It was just kind of all over.
And so, uh, I don't rememberexactly what you had said, but
the gist of my thought was hey,on the on the swing through, I
feel like you're kind of.
I guess what I had in my headwas like popping my shoulder, my
(30:21):
left shoulder, up as I camethrough, just getting that right
at contact.
Yeah, it was like all likeright before, contact was kind
of get that thing lifted and Ithink it was just getting me
into a different position and Imean I went immediately from
this weak pull hook to way up inthe air and it kind of blocked
to the right.
But again, I was just gettingthat feel back.
(30:41):
So I took that with me for thenext few times that I was
practicing and hitting balls anddefinitely got me back into the
wheelhouse of what I wanted tosee as far as ball flight.
But yeah, I have a tendency,like, I think, a lot of golfers.
I mean I hit it far, so I wantto hit it farther so so I tend
to over swing get a distanceball yeah well, I just I start
(31:04):
to over swing, I get a littlewild with it and and I think if
I can get myself to bring thatback in and just make a little.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
My favorite ball flight from the driver is dead
straight.
Yeah, no shape to it at all,and I like seeing it come off
fairly low and watching it looklike it's climbing.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was my golf coaches in college.
Yeah, yeah, so crazy.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I love that look, and I hit the furthest drives by
far.
When I get that low.
It comes off the club low andit kind of climbs up high and
it's dead straight.
There's no side spin at all.
I get my best results by fardistance-wise and ball
placement-wise when I see thatshot shape.
(31:53):
I just don't know how to dothat every time.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Well, yeah, that's the ticket, isn't it Doing it
every time?
Yeah, my shot shape typicallyis more of a draw, which I think
tends to make it at least forme comes out a little lower, but
you get a little more rollout,a little more ramble down the
fairway with it.
I like a straight one too.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I think that's the big key here is that if you ask
30 people in a line what theirshot was, they'd explain it
differently to you.
And if they drew a picture, itwould be completely different,
because they're going to showyou the shot flight, they're
going to show you the trajectoryit's taken off on.
So the picture you have in yourhead on hole two, um, at a golf
(32:41):
course, any given golf courseand then, ken, you guys might
play those entirely differentand you might play the shot
heights entirely different,right, and so that's what makes
it really difficult.
No golfer is the same and youhave to train yourself to at
least, if nothing else, plan thegolf shot Right.
You have that in your controland you will be a hundred times
(33:04):
better at the game that day ifyou at least try to plan what's
in your control.
Once you make your golf swingand the ball comes off the face,
that's completely out of yourcontrol.
So who cares?
You hit the shot, deal with it,go find the next, hit it again.
But you still have to have thesame intent the entire time, and
the more you practice withintent, the better you're going
(33:25):
to be right.
And people always tell me oh, Itake all my time and I do my
pre-shot routine, and so Ilistened to that.
And then sometimes I'll be like, all right, do your pre-shot
routine.
Now do it again.
Was it the same?
It's never the same, right?
It's not?
Normally not.
If they're struggling right,they think it's the same, but
they might've taken two secondslonger over the ball, they
(33:47):
might've taken an additionalpractice swing.
They don't even know they'redoing that.
They may have rushed it.
They might have rushed it right.
So if you're not really lookingand reacting and your mind
isn't clear to exactly whatyou're trying to do, then your
brain's not going to allow yourbody to do it anyway.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
True.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
It's going to be harder.
I'm not going to jump out of aplane if I'm not 100% clear.
Probably will never do that,maybe.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Probably not, though, but your parachute's packed
right.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Yeah, exactly.
And all the straps are on andbuckled accordingly, exactly,
exactly.
All the straps are on andbuckled accordingly, exactly,
exactly.
No, it's good.
Well, we're excited to haveyour whole family here.
Obviously, ken, it's so awesome.
And, darren, I mean, this iswhat Golf Garage Community is
all about.
We get you know, our friendsinvolved, obviously, and other
business owners on the show,which is super cool.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
We love that.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Is this our first doctor, I think it is.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
It is.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, which doctor?
I think it is.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
It is yeah, which is great.
So it's nice to see thatbecause there's a lot of
professionals.
I told dr bonds last week thathe's gonna oh sweet yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
But I mean there's so many dentists and doctors that
um that play golf, so for youit's also a benefit in your
industry to have that networkingability so what?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
what got you?
What got you interested inwanting to go into dentistry?
Speaker 1 (34:57):
oh, just growing up, my dentist I really liked and uh
, my orthodontist.
And after I got my teethstraightened I uh really liked
the look of things.
And you know, I was 16 yearsold and I'm like I could do what
these guys do and I just kindof went for it and uh,
originally I thought I was goingto be an orthodontist.
Just that was kind of myinterest initially.
(35:18):
Um, and I worked into uh,college, got through, got into
dental school and then in dentalschool the ortho classes were
my most boring classes and Icould just barely stay awake
through kind of thing.
I was like maybe that's not notmy orthodontist have to become
dentists first yeah, you have tobe a dentist first to then
specialize into orthodontics orwhatever specialty after that.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
They say that dentistry is ranked in like the
top 5% of highest stress jobs.
Is that true?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Well, it's the only real job I've had, so I can't
compare it, but there's a lot ofstress, obviously.
I mean mean we're dealing withpeople physically every day.
I mean I'm doing procedures topeople that are generally awake,
and part of it.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
So there, there's, there's a lot and, generally
speaking, they're not superexcited.
Yeah, exactly no one.
One of those chores you justhave to do.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Yeah, you gotta do it , and so anytime you hear the
drill when it's inside it's not.
Yeah, exactly, what's that?
What's that?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
yeah, nobody's loving that.
So I mean the only thing Iliked about the dentist.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Was that suction thing that they'd suck?
The water out of your mouthwith nothing cracked me up.
Yeah, it's awesome.
And seeing youtube videos ofkids coming home all drugged up,
yeah, oh, geez, yeah, have youhad what percentage?
Speaker 3 (36:44):
maybe it's against hip at what percentage of people
have to use the gas oh no, Iwould say, very few actually
need it um, yeah we, you give itto anybody who wants it.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, yeah, if they say they want it.
I mean, well, there's someparameters to that and obviously
.
But uh, yeah, for the most partit's fine, but our office in
general, we, it's more of ahassle for us to get the whole
thing out, get it all set up.
Now you got a thing on yournose that's blocking my view
from getting in your mouth, likeI, I don't offer it very much,
(37:18):
just because I don't want to useit.
But uh, people are like, hey, Ineed that.
I'm like, all right, that'sfine, we can do that too.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
So nice, they still have the uh, the big stuffed
animal that you can win eacheach month up there, I think
it's monthly, my quarterly,quarterly, quarterly yeah,
budget cuts I'm just kidding mybrother won the dinosaur and it
was hilarious.
How do you win that?
It's drawing dude.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, it's for a little, uh, our kids program
over there.
So it's part of the uh, we callit the no cavity club.
So you get your checkup, yougot no cavities, you get into
the drawing, and so thenquarterly they pull a name and
uh, yeah, usually the kids aresuper excited and then the
parents are like great, what amI going to do with this giant
stuffed animal in my house?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I'm going to start giving you golf garage 50 off
coupons to give to all yourpatients there you go and then
we'll have the east main dentaluh clinic sign up here.
Yeah, I like that, are you?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
guys accepting new patients.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, yeah, in fact, uh, there's, uh I, actually
three other partners, so there'sfour of us that are um owners
in the group and uh, yeah, we'reall accepting new patients and
uh really glad to just be a partof the community.
Um, yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
What's the best golf course you've ever?
Speaker 1 (38:30):
played Best golf course I've ever played?
Um golf course.
Well, those are probably twodifferent things.
The best course I've everplayed is probably Bandon Dunes
and my favorite golf coursethat's probably a tougher.
One Years ago I was probably inhigh school or college we
(38:53):
played one up in northern Idahoin the Coeur d'Alene area.
Was it the resort course area?
And uh, the resort course.
It was not the resort course.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Uh, and I do not recall the name there's a
private club, a private countryclub up there.
That I've heard is insane.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Yeah, cory caddies there oh, you're talking about
the, uh, the cattle club.
Right, that's in montana,though I.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
No, he caddies for one in Coeur d'Alene and it's a
private club and he said it's.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I guess we got to take a road trip, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I'm down.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah, we got a threesome right here.
Let's go Now, bring the kids.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
All of our kids play.
Yeah, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
That's anything you want me to answer today on the
show.
Anything you've thought about.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Well, as far as golf goes, I would say there's a lot
of info out there YouTube,whatever advice makes my head
hurt.
Oh, so much of it.
And I mean for, like myself,someone who wants to improve, I
want to get better, and it'slike where do I get resources
(40:07):
for that?
Speaker 3 (40:08):
youtube's easy my golf, hop on there.
Yeah, there you go my golf.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Source podcast yeah, what would your advice be?
Um, obviously, getting lessonswould be the answer.
But outside of, what kind ofadvice would you have for
somebody who's like just kind ofscrambling, looking around,
like how do I find justsomething to get me back on
track?
What would be the most basicthing that you would tell them?
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Yeah.
So number one I wouldn't beafraid of YouTube.
I'd be afraid of doingeverything that YouTube shows
you.
I think I have a lot ofstudents that have used YouTube
in the wrong manner because theydidn't understand.
It was like here's the quickestway to fix a slice, here's the
perfect posture.
(40:53):
Well, every player is different, right?
So at the end of the day, whenI have a player that loves
YouTube and I'm starting to workwith them, so I'm assessing
them to see if it's going towork out, no, I tell them I
don't mind if you look atYouTube, but before you try
anything or any questions youhave, you have to talk to me
(41:14):
about it first.
So use it, look at it, be awareof it and then ask for it.
But if you're going on there tosearch for the next fix after
you've taken a lesson from me,then I'm not going to work with
you.
It's pretty simple.
There's no reason for that atall.
You came to me for a reason andso to kind of go into answering
the question of you know, whatshould that person do?
(41:35):
It's all relative in general,because unfortunately I hate the
term, but it's like there's somuch fake news out there.
So YouTube is a good marketingplatform for golf professionals
and for any business owner, andwe watch things that are funny
or catch our attention ordramatic.
Right, we watch the things thatwe think are going to work for
(41:57):
us.
So, unfortunately, I don't thinkthat's the best resource.
Your PGA professional is goingto be the best resource and
ultimately, most of the time,you're probably within 20, 30
minutes of a golf course, evenin a rural area that go to that
professional and ask them whatthey think, or go to that
(42:17):
professional and ask them whothat they would recommend taking
a lesson from.
And this is the.
This is what I always ask mystudents particularly in clinics
, because you don't have a lotof time to help them with their
swing in a clinic is ask me whyI'm giving you that advice.
If I can't answer something I'mgiving you, I shouldn't be
teaching it.
(42:37):
If I can't demonstrate it, Ishouldn't be teaching it, right?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
So at the end of the day, it's sink in more.
Yeah, the why behind it Withoutquestion.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
So ultimately, whether it's a clinic or it's a
one on one or you're juststruggling, you know, and the
other cool thing is, a goodteaching professional can
probably give you something onthe spot that could potentially
help, even by watching you airswing Right spot that could
potentially help, even bywatching you air swing Right.
I mean, there's some, there'ssome really cool things that we
(43:08):
strive ourselves on here at golfgarage and in our coaching
staff that we can find the rootcause of your problem in under
five minutes.
Well, the only thing we've evereven really done in that
situation is watch you set upand then we'll do some
fundamental movements and we'regoing to already know most of
the time how your golf club isgoing to work, based on how you
move.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
What's your favorite tempo training?
Speaker 3 (43:27):
It's pretty easy.
It's the orange whip baby.
All right, all right, and it'sa good friend of mine, so I got
to promote him.
Yeah, orange whip.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I like the blue lag shot too.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, I know you do.
Orange whip, though, creates afeel.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
The orange whip actually too.
Yeah, I know you do.
Orange whip, though, creates afeel Actually, I like the feel
better because it's moreexaggerated, but the lag shot
club.
You actually get to hit a golfball with it and see the shape
of the ball.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
But you forgot to ask one important question why
Exactly?
So the orange whip has acounterbalance on it that's
actually what they trademarkedso that white ball on the
opposite side of the orange ballis.
Nobody can do that, and so thatis why you feel it different
and exaggerated, and it allowsyou to release it.
So the orange whip is designedto go through your natural golf
(44:12):
swing, whatever plane of motionthat is, but it helps you feel
the the club down at the bottomwith good tempo forces sequence
there you go.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
So what do you say to people?
And and I'm 100 guilty of thisI'm going.
I really want to get lessons,but I want to work and improve
my game on my own enough to givethe pro something to work with
yeah, I mean, I think, it's ahuge one yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
I think it's twofold number one.
I'm never gonna sell somebodysomething they don't want, right
?
So if that's the way they wantto go, then let them go that way
, and at the end of the, that'sa huge one.
Yeah, I think it's twofoldNumber one I'm never going to
sell somebody something theydon't want, right?
So if that's the way they wantto go, then let them go that way
, and at the end of the day, ifI'm a good fit for them, then
they'll come back, right, andthat's great and hopefully I get
the opportunity to try.
But it's all relative.
There's a lot of questions youcan ask a person to find out,
(45:00):
you know.
And again I would ask why, likewhy do you think that you know?
I think it's important to findout.
Um, you know, is it that theydon't want to spend the money?
Is it that they don't reallyhave the time?
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Is it that they don't want to invest in it.
I think it's embarrassmentbecause it's like, yes, I'm
capable of hitting really goodgolf shots and I want a pro to
be able to see that and thenimprove upon that.
But until I can do that, evenmoderately consistently, I feel
like I'm wasting my moneybecause they've got no data or
(45:33):
consistency to work with.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yeah, and I think it's up to the professional to
really be able to prove that tothat, that student or potential
student.
And I get the opposite a lot.
I get the people that are soafraid of making a mistake that
they need.
They're like I need a lesson.
I'm not going to swing unless Ihave lessons, and so I think
it's.
You know there's definitelyextremes and I think most people
are on both one end or theother of that.
(45:57):
And you know, with Op36 andother programs that are out
there, I think it really does.
It proves that you're gettingbetter.
Right With our technology.
We have a golf garage.
It proves that you're gettingbetter, and I mean almost every
golf course now probably hassome sort of a launch monitor
because you can buy them for 500bucks.
You can't buy what we have, butyou can buy something that
(46:19):
gives you a general idea ofimprovement.
I mean, more consumers now havethem, right.
They have watches that sync upwith it.
They have range finders thatsync up with your launch monitor
.
It's insane.
So technology is definitelygetting down a rabbit hole and a
lot of times I'll try to teachwithout it, even though I have
(46:40):
it, because you don't get it outthere.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
So here's another question On the course, and I
think it was.
I heard Bryson DeChambeautalking about this.
He said when you're more thanaccurate, striking range to a
six-foot target, he said, forgetabout pin placement, just shoot
(47:05):
for the center of the greenevery time yeah versus using
your range finder, hitting thepin not really knowing where
your pin is on the green.
Yeah, he said, but you havetools out there now, gps tools
out there that don't tell youwhere the pin is, but they tell
you your distance to the front,center and back of the green.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Yeah, exactly, I mean .
So those guys, can you reallygo wrong If you're?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
150 yards out on a par 4, can you really go wrong?
Just forgetting about the pinand just going for the center of
the green every time?
Speaker 3 (47:39):
Yeah, so we do something with our college team
once in a while where we takethe flag sticks out ahead of
time so they don't even knowwhere the where the hole is.
I like that Right, so that's areally good way of doing it.
It's really hard for people toplay away from a target when
they know the hole is theiractual end goal and that's what
(47:59):
gets them in trouble.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
That's why golf courses put the flag in.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
There is to really screw with you to mess me up,
yeah yeah, because I've triedthat in the past too just saying
okay, today I'm obviouslyneeding to get on the green to
be able to put the ball on thehole, so let's just aim for the
middle of the green.
That's so hard to do when theflag's right there.
I'm like why would I try to hitover here when it's over there?
Speaker 2 (48:21):
When you have greens the size of football fields and
it's a back right pin placementit's hard to get it in your mind
to go for the center of thegreen.
I have one of those blue teesspeakers that go on the golf
cart but it tells you front,middle and back.
Yep, yeah, and I found myselflooking at that more than using
(48:42):
my range finder to the pin.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Yeah, and I think number one the average golfer
can't control their ball anyway.
They're worried about contact.
So to have that muchinformation, it just gets
jumbled.
I think the biggest thing isplay to your strengths.
Get out of trouble.
When you get into trouble, hitthe green and regulation inside
(49:06):
of 30 yards If you, if you'rethere, don't waste shots and
miss it.
You know those are kind of someof the basics but ultimately,
you know, if you can't, hit iton the green from a hundred
anyway.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
What's the point?
30 yards and hitting, hittingonto the green and regulation,
that means you must be a reallybig.
No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
What I mean is when you're yeah, exactly when you're
inside 30 yards, knock it onthe green, right, don't, don't
waste shots inside 30.
You got to hit it on the greenfrom there and it's even, it's
even more like 100 right for thebetter players.
So, anyway, no, it's, it's allgood and I think, um, the one
thing about YouTube and the onething about online is that it's
a resource right, and it'sgetting people to want to play
(49:48):
the game, so I don't hate it andultimately it's going to grow
less in business because at somepoint they're going to need
help.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
They're going to watch a YouTube video go oh that
looks easy, that looks easy, Ican do that.
Go to the course and it wrecksthem yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
And, at the end of the day, if that's the direction
they want to go.
I know some people have kind oftaught themselves through
YouTube.
So if it works for you, do itRight.
If you're happy with it, thenthat's great, because you're
going to keep playing the gamethat I love.
That's good, absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Who we got next.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Man, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Who should we bring?
Speaker 3 (50:28):
on.
I know you are Well first ofall I want to thank Dr McGowan
for being here.
Obviously, you know East MainDental Center special place in
my heart.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Our kids go to you now too, so we're pumped about
that, and we might even have afew listeners in Germany come
over to see you.
I know we got a few.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Shout out to those guys.
Maybe we need them to call inand ask some questions.
That would be really reallycool.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
We have a message board on our podcast.
If you go to the podcast site,you can send us a message.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Yeah, it'd be sweet.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
We'd love to have you on the show.
Sounds good.
Until next time, then you'llfind out who's on the show.
All right, yes, take care.
See you next week.
Welcome to the MyGolfSource podcast.
Welcome to MyGolfSource.
I'm Darren and I'm Noah.
What's new in your world, man?
We've been planning tournaments, the weather's man.
We've been playing intournaments, the weather's been
great.
You've been out of town.
I've been out of town.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
It's just good to be back home out of the humidity.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Tennessee right.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, we were in Nashville for a week, and what a
cool town.
Have you been there?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I have not.
What's the best golf course youplayed while you were there?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
There was this awesome miniature golf course in
Franklin that I took my kids toNoah Horseman marked this date.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
He didn't even take his golf clubs with him.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
There was a golf course across the street from
the state park where the familyreunion was, and I was just
salivating the whole time.
That's alright, family will dothat to you.
I get it.
Yeah, no, you know what?
The miniature golf waswork-related, because I'm
looking at that being anotheroption here in the golf garage
area that would be cool.
(01:15):
Not to let the cat out of thebag, but there's some things up
that could be a benefit in thePhoenix, the greater Phoenix
Oregon area.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So how did you do a miniature golf?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
just putting on degrading artificial turf and
yeah, there was a really bighornet on the second hole so we
almost bypassed that one and weplayed at 12 o'clock um in june
and I would highly not recommendthat in the nashville area.
Humidity, the humidity was five, and 105%.
(01:47):
Yeah, I made one hole in one sothat was good and my kids had a
good time and there it wasreally cool because there was a
miniature golf course and it wasbuilt on a hillside so there
were slopes on just about everyhole downhill, uphill couldn't
get the ball to stop and it wasthe most unique miniature golf
course that I probably everplayed.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It wasn't about the windmills.
I remember this one in Ventura,California called golf and
stuff.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And they had this cave you had to put through and
it was a 90 degree turn in thecave and every time you'd walk
through that cave it would smelllike pee, because little kids
would go in there that's awesomestory, awful and, and that's
what I think about, that's thememory that comes back when I
think about miniature golf isn'tgolf and stuff where the karate
(02:35):
kid was filmed like, isn't thatwhere he took the girl on the
date?
I think it was golf and stuff itwas a golf and stuff must have
been.
Is that a franchise?
Or is it the one in Venturalike the only one?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
The only one I've ever heard of was on the Karate
Kid, which is why I was thinkingof it.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, exactly, we have Family Fun Center locally,
though we do, and they're good.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
We do.
Miniature golf was the onlygolf I ever played until I was
over 30.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Is that right?
It's true, so you're reallygood, then, relative to the
amount of time that you'veplayed, it's a lot harder as an
adult to pick up the game.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Tell me that after we play 18 holes together next
week.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I'm so excited.
Yeah, so pro-am coming up, I'mactually going to start working
on the game.
This year Made a consciouseffort to get a little healthier
and get back into the gym andget the swing speed up.
So that's the plan.
But, yeah, are you ready for it?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I am, I am.
We just got back from a week atbar run.
My son and I played two roundsat bar run and then one round at
Roseburg Country Club.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Good.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It was great, great experience.
Bar run, bar run the day Tobyand I just played together.
We both shot.
I had a good front nine and arough back nine on Tuesday.
Then on Thursday, I had a roughfront nine and a good back nine
.
It was the opposite and weplayed with two caddies that
(04:02):
were over on their day off fromBandon Dunes.
So fun.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Do you have new caddies for the next time you go
over?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
No.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
No, maybe not.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Maybe not, maybe not.
I mean, they were super coolkids.
I love these kids who are sopassionate about golf.
They'll literally carry bags on32 holes a day and then on
their day off, they'll drive twohours and go play golf 36 holes
a day, 36 holes a day.
There we go.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, we're for sure I mean match play.
Maybe we crush somebody.
Get it done, let's do it 32.
Yeah, so also we've got a goodjunior golfer that's going to be
playing with us that you'regoing to enjoy.
All right, if he doesn't shoot68 out there, it's probably an
issue.
And then our good friend Mikeis going to be playing with us.
(04:52):
So two photographers going tobe hitting it up on the same
team.
I love it.
Team Photo Bomb.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
All right, yeah, he takes pictures of people though.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
For fun.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
For fun, that's awesome.
You prefer the still life?
I do.
I prefer inanimate objects,yeah, and and if it's if it's
people, it better come with ahefty price tag on it.
So the only thing I like to dowith houses hit golf balls over
them, maybe through them youneed to start a bryson de
chambeau video where you need toput a pool ring in your pool
(05:26):
out in the front yard and thenhit from the lawn in your
backyard.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
What if I hit it over a golf garage instead?
See, that would be way betterthan what Bryson did Get.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Garrison's next door to sponsor it where you hit off
a Garrison's roof.
No, you drop a golf ball on oneof their couches that they got
for sale.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
That's a really good idea, and you can video it.
Yes, use your drone, yes,capture it like that.
Speaking of people with clubhead speed, we have a guest on
the show today that's going tobe not just your average doctor.
He also knows how to swing thebig stick.
(06:05):
He does, yeah.
So we uh, you know we're goingto get some other professionals
on the show here, probably inthe upcoming weeks.
Um, I know my friend, don law,wants to be on the show from
he's retired golf Academy.
National youth playerdevelopment award winner.
Worked with um drive, chip andputt champions, tour players, um
(06:26):
, all caliber golfer.
So I'm really excited abouthaving him on because he's next
level.
Um, and now that he's retired,I think all he's doing is bass
fishing in florida.
but he's got playing golf well,but he's got family in oregon so
we might have him on live andwe were talking about that and
that'll be in august.
That'd be cool.
Still working on trying to getJibo on the show would be really
, really cool.
(06:46):
Bryson's caddy.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
He's just starting to kind of slow down in life a
touch.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
I, yeah, man, that guy just goes.
I can't imagine carrying a bagthat big for that guy who needs
everything in it.
Not only is he, playing.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Not only is Jibo playing, you know, with Bryson
during all of his tournaments,but he's in most of his YouTube
videos and all of his fun stufftoo.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, so he's like they're literally connected at
the hip yeah, I think you'd haveto be, because you know
Bryson's personality trait is,you know, wanting to know the
answer now.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So I think if we get Jibo on the show, bryson will be
on the show by default, becausethey're just that would be
awesome.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I, we should.
I think we should challengethat, see if it can happen.
All right, no, it's awesome.
So, yeah, I think, withoutfurther ado, I think we need to
bring on Dr Ken McGowan.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Hey guys, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Love it.
Yeah, Owner of East main dentaland you know, kind of funny,
but um, that is where I grew upgoing to the dentist, I don't
know.
I told you that right, yeah,yeah you did, and you took over
the practice for my.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I was going to say we're all probably close to the
same age, right yeah, 41, 43 and40.
All right, you're the youngest,yeah, whatever, I think he's
rubbing it in our face.
That backfired on me real quick.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
So you played a little bit of golf growing up.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, I grew up playing golf.
I mean, all my family did andit was just something that I was
out there doing.
You know, five, six years old,just being with my dad and my
uncles and all that.
So with my dad and my unclesand all that.
Where did you grow up?
Ontario, Oregon, so Boise,Idaho area.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Some good golf over in that area that no one knows
about isn't there.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, there's some nice courses, especially in the
greater Boise area.
I mean, I grew up in kind of adirt weed track out there that
actually no longer exists.
I think they gave it upeventually.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
You and Lee Trevino actually no longer exists.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I think they they gave it up eventually.
So, uh, you and Lee Trevino,yeah, yeah.
Well, I don't know how much itbenefited me.
I feel like I've, uh, prettyshot pretty consistently the
same scores my whole life.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Not overly impressive , though, so yeah, but you know
it's kind of like sounds likeyou.
You took it up because of thefamily and then did you keep it
going after high school, justrecreationally.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
After high school I played three years in high
school and coincidentallyactually ended up graduating
early.
So I was ineligible for mysenior year and my coach was a
little upset about that Becausedid you go to?
state at all, I did not.
I kind of floated in the top ofthe jv ranks and then probably
(09:31):
would have been, you know,second or third spot varsity my
senior year if I had beeneligible to stick around and do
that.
But I was off to off to juniorcollege and just moving on with
life and yeah hard, uh hard tonot play golf when tiger woods
is.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
That is like ultimate right yeah, absolutely, because
that's I mean 97 masters.
You would have been 11 probably.
I was 12.
I'm like glued to the tv.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I mean it's like that got you out of baseball real
quick yeah, absolutely was yourdad a good golfer no, my dad was
never a good golfer, but I hadtwo uncles that um shot scratch
at various points in their lives.
How old were you when he beatyour dad?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
oh, probably 14 or 15 huh, sounds like a familiar
thing, how old he was he waslike 12, yeah, when he beat me
yeah, that was his main goal too.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Toby's main goal was to beat you.
Like that was literally likeall he cared about.
It was pretty funny.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
It's still all.
He cares about Not beating me,he just wants to beat Everybody,
everybody.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, that's a good goal when you're on the golf
course, isn't it.
Beat the golf course.
Yeah.
So, ken, obviously your kiddosare up and coming, and same age
as our girls, and we're friends.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And what got you to want to get them into golf?
Oh, I'll admit it was a littleself-serving.
I just kind of hoped they wouldtake to it so I could get to
the golf course a little moreoften.
It's a lot easier pitch to thewife that hey the girls and I
are going golfing versus hey,I'm going to be gone for half a
day.
That's a harder sell.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You get the kids on your own.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So it gives sir some downtime and uh.
So yeah, I put them into it,you know, hopeful but didn't
want to put too much pressure onthem and fortunately they
really took to it, they reallyenjoy it, they want to go.
It's just a fun time for us toget out and do that kind of
thing With all the programsavailable to us here at the Golf
(11:36):
Garage and around the Valley.
It's nice because we can getout and do the OP36, which is
really nice for them to startclose and kind of learn the, the
fundamentals and the importantpart of the game which, um, that
really resonated with mebecause I just grew up banging
balls on the range, just hitthem a bunch, which was fine and
(11:56):
had its merits.
But uh, at the same time, um, Ithink I wish I had a little
stronger base with a short gameand putting that that was, I
felt was really important yeahit's, it's an amazing concept.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Um, we've been growing the game from the green
backwards for a long time andthese two professionals from the
east coast their golf coursewas about to close and their pro
basically said you guys need tocome up with something,
otherwise we're shutting down.
And lo and behold, they came upwith this concept of OP36, and
(12:35):
that's what saved their club.
So player development saved thegolf course, and so my
background in coaching hasalways been to show golf courses
the appeal of playerdevelopment, and it's almost
been one of those things whereit's always been about
tournaments make money.
Well, no they don't.
Tournaments drive your staffcrazy and you get turnover
(12:57):
because of it, and yeah, sometournaments make money.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
general public who can't get a tee time on that
weekend?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
100%.
So there's a time and a placeto have tournaments, but it's
how many do you need and what isit really doing for you?
But what's really growing thegame is the impact of player
development, working from thegreen backwards, understanding
that you can shoot par from ayardage, and then that makes you
feel confident to then moveback and shoot par again.
(13:25):
And what I really like and Ithink I was very fortunate in
this is that the year we openedgolf garage, which will be a
year here this next week um,they started having indoor
operation 36 as a program.
I mean that is a game changer,because you also aren't going to
lose a golf ball.
Yeah, and that's theembarrassment factor.
(13:48):
Right, where's my ball?
Am I still away?
Oh, it took me too long.
So you fix all those things.
So I think there's a nicecombination I know our girls
like it as well of hitting inthe sim and then going on the
course and vice versa.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I think it's helpful.
I'm sure you can relate, though, I've spent more money in lost
golf balls and one round of golfthan what the round of golf
cost me with the cart.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Oh yeah, been there, done that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Not anymore.
You have the.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Kirkland's.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
That's right.
No yeah, it's hard to gothrough 90 bucks in Kirkland's.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
It's pretty funny, as we continue this podcast, how
much I know about this guyacross the way, like we did this
ball fitting a couple weeks agoand we had to test the kirkland
ball which I had maybe hit.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You were very apprehensive about it.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I was, and at the end of the day I was very impressed
at the value of that golf balland the quality, for the value
was amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
You know I I prefer to play with the premium tp5,
tp5x.
However, when I'm going out ona course that I know I'm going
to lose golf balls, I leave thetp5s in the back yeah and I go
shop and pay it $26.99 for twodozen at Costco.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, you caught me.
So he was telling me howthey're $20 a dozen or something
like that and so I go intoCostco and see it and I was like
no, they're not, they're $26.99.
He's like that's for two dozen.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And he's like no, it's not, it's one box.
And I said yes, it's one box.
And I said yes, did you noticehow tall the box is?
I think it is yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
He's like they don't sell anything.
A dozen at Costco.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I was laughing.
They don't do anything small atCostco.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
So good, so true, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, ken, now that your girlsare starting to get into it and
you know obviously, like yousaid, getting to go play a
little bit more, you know doesdoes it seem to be happening for
you as?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
yeah, yeah, a little bit.
I mean, especially, like I said, with some of those events like
the op 36 things and some ofthe LPGA stuff they can do, um,
I just like to be out there onthe course, even if I'm not
playing, but I'll do the op 36with them just to be out there
doing it.
But uh, yeah, I think as theydevelop into it more and um, you
(16:08):
know, are more and moreinterested.
I really envision our life ashey going on a family vacation
and we're going to incorporatesome golf into that which I
never really could do before,cause that is just, that was
time away from the family andthat doesn't make sense.
But now it's like, okay, thiscan be part of our adventure
together and I think that'll bereally exciting moving forward
(16:31):
with that.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
So while you're in your adult life playing golf, we
all get frustrated with ourgame.
It's a frustrating frankly,it's an infuriating sport, but
we can't let it go.
What frustrated you the most?
And is that still true today?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Well, I would say over the years I've had a lot of
things.
Frustrate me with golf islooking back and seeing myself
play for so many years and feellike I haven't progressed very
much.
I played this game since I wasa little kid and I've probably
shot between 82 and 88 for thelast 25 years.
(17:20):
It's like at some point,something should change and I
should get better.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Biggest struggle was it from the t-box on the
fairways, always gettingyourself into trouble.
Was it poor putting?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
combinations of all of that and um and at different
times and at different times.
Some days I'm putting lightsout and it's just keeping me
from having a horrible roundbecause everything else is in
the in the garbage.
And then there's other dayswhere it's like, man, I could
hit any fairway I wanted to, butI can't get the ball on the
green to save my life.
You know it.
Just it depends day to day.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So much it's funny.
Speaking of getting the ballson onto the green at bar run.
It was on hole hole 18, and thepin placement was only about
three yards onto the grain.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
And.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I was 30 yards from the pin in the rough and I got
out my 69-degree wedge and Ipopped at this beautiful little
shot that landed about a footshort of the pin, checked up,
stopped about three inches fromthe pin Awesome and the caddies
(18:31):
we were playing with their jawsabout hit the ground and they're
like, with a few choice words,what in the world did you just
hit?
Let me see that wedge.
They'd never seen anything likeit.
And I didn't tell them.
They were just shocked at howthe ball't tell them they're.
They were just shocked at howthe ball responded yep, and
they're like I don't get it.
Let me see what.
What did you just hit?
And I said, oh, it's my secretweapon and I handed them the
(18:55):
club and they just laughed andlaughed and they're like how
many clubs do you have in yourback?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
like 16, yeah right, because I'm allowed to.
That's.
That's pretty cool, yeah, Ithink.
Uh, you know when you, when youlook at the things that you get
frustrated about in golf.
I was just working with um he'sprobably about our age as well
and he was a D one collegeplayer, um, and it was unique
(19:25):
because he just kind of movedinto the area for work and he
basically had a lesson everyweek in his adult life from a
different professional, anywherehe lived, and so I think he's
had like five swing coaches andfive different opinions and five
different swing thoughts.
And so I think he's had likefive swing coaches and five
different opinions and fivedifferent swing thoughts.
(19:47):
And so he looked me up andwe've had three lessons together
and in that time we've donesome chipping right.
So, started small.
I really wanted to get to knowhim, knowing he's a good player,
see where his motion was, knewthat was a problem for him, fit
him for new wedges, got those in, gave him some stuff, right.
But I didn't rush the processand, um, today it was really
(20:10):
unique because he's like what doyou want to work on to me?
And I'm like, whoa, hold on asecond, this isn't about me,
right?
So what?
What is it that you need towork on?
And uh, it was like one thingto another thing, to another
thing.
So, immediately, I'm trying tofigure out what all these
thoughts mean, you know, andwhat are we actually going to
(20:32):
work on today to get you towhere you need to be, where
you're comfortable when youleave this place?
So I watch him hit a couple ofshots and I'm like, what shot
shape do you want to hit?
And he's like just looked at mewith a blank stare, like what,
what do you mean?
(20:53):
You're supposed to tell me whatI should be doing, kind of a
thing.
And so ultimately I said, like,what do you want to hit with
this club?
Well, I'll, I'll hit a cut, butbut what I want to do is hit a
draw.
And I said, well, what do youwant to hit?
So you want to hit a draw,right?
So ultimately, after literallyfour minutes, he told me what he
(21:15):
wanted to do with the golf ball.
And so I said, do you know howto hit a draw?
Well, yeah, I said okay, well,now I want you to not think
about your swing and I want youto hit a draw.
So he sets up super exaggeratedto hit this draw, and so I
watched one.
And that's what I do, and Ipull it yeah.
Well, but he, he hits it wayright and it drew, and it wasn't
(21:39):
an overcooked, but it, and itwas like hey, so that's a great
draw, isn't it?
But it didn't start where youwanted to.
So how are you going to startit better?
Didn't say another thing,started better, right.
So he tries and kind of doesthe same thing, and I said so, I
don't think it's your golfswing, that's the issue.
It's that maybe you're notquite sure how to aim with your
(22:00):
eyes properly when you'resetting up.
I said so, number one, you know, we could use an alignment
stick, bum, and teach you how toaim with your eyes today, and
then we're going to go off ofthat.
So then I did it, and then Istart talking to somebody in a
bay and let him practice for aminute, and then he gets it.
I said did you hit one?
(22:24):
Good?
And he said yeah.
So we kind of go down this patha little bit and at the end of
it all, I basically had to goback to the fundamental of do
you know how to align your clubface properly to the target and
then align your body.
And he doesn't think that way.
He's like, oh yeah, well, thatthat makes sense, right?
So I was like some of this isyou have a really good golf
swing already.
Most golfers have an okay golfswing, right, and what happens
(22:44):
is they see a shot they don'tlike and they instantly try to
change and correct that based onthe result of the shot, instead
of taking it for what it waswas a golf shot out of the
million golf shots you're goingto hit in your life, and so
sometimes we have to be patientwith a round or two or three
(23:04):
before we start makingadjustments to what our golf
swing is, because our golfswings are golf swing, but most
likely there's something goingon with a basic fundamental.
So if you can get it airbornedecently, like Ken, you're a
really good golfer, like youreally are, like you hit it,
you're in the top 10 percentmaybe even better than that in
the world of all golfers,because of what you can shoot,
score wise and I've in watchingyou hit it, you hit it as good
(23:28):
as a guy that can shoot scratch.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
It's just a matter of if you can control the ball
that day yeah, and just havingthat consistency, um, and, like
you said, breaking it down tofundamentals.
So I would love to get to aposition where I know what my,
my swing thoughts and my umbasics should be, so that, like
(23:52):
you said, things start gettingoff the rails a little bit, it's
like okay, let's slow it down,get back to what I should be
doing.
Because, like I said, if thingsstart getting off the rails a
little bit, it's like okay,let's slow it down, get back to
what I should be doing.
Because, like you said, it'sconsistency.
I've never had really an issuewith distance or really.
I mean, it's never like oneaspect where I'm like man, I
just can't do this or that, Ican do any of it, but on
(24:13):
different days.
So you talk a lot about.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
What do you want your shot shape to be?
What do you want your shot tolook like?
Is there a default shot shapethat every unique individual has
, or is it something that'strained?
Because there's times I feellike I naturally, when I'm
striking the ball, well, Inaturally hit a cut.
(24:36):
Yep, um, I would.
There's times where I want tohit a really hard power, fade
around on a dog leg.
There's times where I wouldkill to be able to hit a draw,
and every time I set up to hit adraw, I end up pulling it and
(24:57):
it draws, but it starts out sofar left, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, so that's.
That's a little bit of a loadedquestion.
It depends on the day and howyou get out of bed.
Right, your body is going toallow you to make a golf swing
or it's not right.
So at the end of the day, um, Ilike from from the experience
at least I've had trainingbetter players there's a shot
shape that they like right.
(25:23):
So if I'm going out on the golfcourse and I have a go to like
right now and I'm playing good,my ball is going to fall about
two feet left, okay, and I'mgoing to hit it by most people
straight to a baby draw.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Baby draw.
But if I'm with the driver andI need to put it in play, you're
going to see me hit a five yardcut.
I can pipe it with a five yardcut all day.
So at the end of the day, it'sknowing what it is, and it's a
low cut relative to my ballflight when I'm ripping it.
So I think it's it's.
Do you know what your shotshape is?
(25:57):
Is really the question, right?
And then how do you find thatout?
Well, you need to go see yourprofessional to find that out,
right?
The other thing you can do isdon't fight.
You know the horse that showedup that day, right?
So played in the juggernauttournament, which is the biggest
.
I would say it's probably thebiggest charity tournament in
(26:20):
Southern Oregon at this point,since they're donating to
charity now and, um, it's agreat event.
And one of the players I'dnever played with them before
and he normally hits a draw andhe's hitting a pole cut, but
he's fighting it beyond belief.
And we played in the par threecontest the first day.
(26:40):
So that was a blessing indisguise, because he did not hit
it very well at all.
And so we get on the range thenext morning and I'm like, hey,
let me watch you hit a coupleCause I just want to see if it's
different.
He's like, yeah, I don'tnormally hit the shot shape.
And I said that's fine.
I said let's take a look at it.
So he hits one, okay, and itfades.
And I said here's the deal,you're not going to change
anything in your golf swingtoday.
(27:02):
I said you need to know whatyour shot shape's doing for the
golf course, so I want you topay attention to where that ball
started and how much it moved.
And now you're going to playthat shot on the next one.
So don't fight it, let's play a10 yard fade today.
And guess what?
The next one was solid on theface because he'd allowed
(27:25):
himself to say it's okay to playthe shot.
That that's what I showed upwith.
And so and I said here's thefunny thing about this I said
throughout the day your shotshape could change depending on
if your body starts getting intosequence getting warmed up.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, maybe right, but just in general, getting
your sense of fear for the day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
So at the end of the turn his ball did start pulling
a little bit and I said you'rejust going to have to adjust to
that, so adapt to it.
He played for Boise State.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
He was a good football player too so he knew
how to adapt to situations, butin golf he didn't.
So let's get back to the real,real basics on this.
What's the basic principle inyour stance and your thought
process?
If you typically hit a fade,naturally if you want to set up
for a draw, drop your, drop yourright foot back a little bit.
(28:12):
Make sure the club face iscoming inside out.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
So that's a lot of mechanics in its own right.
There, just thinking about theclub face coming inside out is
not a thought that I wouldnecessarily give somebody to do
it.
What I would do is I wouldexplain more that you're turning
right and you're turning left.
Right, you're turning aroundyour spine Number one, can you
do that?
And then what you're doing isyou're setting up your club face
to where you want the ball toend up.
(28:37):
Well, if I want the ball to goto the hole, I'm going to always
set my club face up to the hole.
You're setting your body, yourstance, aligned to your start
line.
So your club face is going tolook really closed relative to
your body now, but your clubface is technically still at
your target.
And then you turn right and youturn left and if you can do
(28:59):
that, it's going to put leftspin on it as long as you swing
the way you normally swing.
The problem is some people comeover the top and across their
body because they can't turnefficiently anyway.
So just stepping back isn'tgoing to solve the problem.
They're going to have to learnhow to do a lot more than that.
So it might be training withouta golf club.
Right, it might be bodyawareness drills, it might be
(29:20):
things like that, just to getthem to do that properly.
I mean, ken, I mean we, weworked on driver that day.
Do you remember that a littlebit?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
So what was the biggest change?
Cause it was feel it wasultimate and I can't feel what
you feel exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I think, like you said, just finding that right
trigger for what you're tryingto accomplish, because that day
I was kind of swaying, I thinkwasn't turning.
Well, I was swaying my body andso I would kind of get
everything spun around.
I was kind of spun out, so iteither either weak to the right
(29:58):
or I was just pull hooking it tothe left.
It was just kind of all over.
And so, uh, I don't rememberexactly what you had said, but
the gist of my thought was hey,on the on the swing through, I
feel like you're kind of.
I guess what I had in my headwas like popping my shoulder, my
(30:21):
left shoulder, up as I camethrough, just getting that right
at contact.
Yeah, it was like all likeright before, contact was kind
of get that thing lifted and Ithink it was just getting me
into a different position and Imean I went immediately from
this weak pull hook to way up inthe air and it kind of blocked
to the right.
But again, I was just gettingthat feel back.
(30:41):
So I took that with me for thenext few times that I was
practicing and hitting balls anddefinitely got me back into the
wheelhouse of what I wanted tosee as far as ball flight.
But yeah, I have a tendency,like, I think, a lot of golfers.
I mean I hit it far, so I wantto hit it farther so so I tend
to over swing get a distanceball yeah well, I just I start
(31:04):
to over swing, I get a littlewild with it and and I think if
I can get myself to bring thatback in and just make a little.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
My favorite ball flight from the driver is dead
straight.
Yeah, no shape to it at all,and I like seeing it come off
fairly low and watching it looklike it's climbing.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was my golf coaches in college.
Yeah, yeah, so crazy.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I love that look, and I hit the furthest drives by
far.
When I get that low.
It comes off the club low andit kind of climbs up high and
it's dead straight.
There's no side spin at all.
I get my best results by fardistance-wise and ball
placement-wise when I see thatshot shape.
(31:53):
I just don't know how to dothat every time.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Well, yeah, that's the ticket, isn't it Doing it
every time?
Yeah, my shot shape typicallyis more of a draw, which I think
tends to make it at least forme comes out a little lower, but
you get a little more rollout,a little more ramble down the
fairway with it.
I like a straight one too.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I think that's the big key here is that if you ask
30 people in a line what theirshot was, they'd explain it
differently to you.
And if they drew a picture, itwould be completely different,
because they're going to showyou the shot flight, they're
going to show you the trajectoryit's taken off on.
So the picture you have in yourhead on hole two, um, at a golf
(32:41):
course, any given golf courseand then, ken, you guys might
play those entirely differentand you might play the shot
heights entirely different,right, and so that's what makes
it really difficult.
No golfer is the same and youhave to train yourself to at
least, if nothing else, plan thegolf shot Right.
You have that in your controland you will be a hundred times
(33:04):
better at the game that day ifyou at least try to plan what's
in your control.
Once you make your golf swingand the ball comes off the face,
that's completely out of yourcontrol.
So who cares?
You hit the shot, deal with it,go find the next, hit it again.
But you still have to have thesame intent the entire time, and
the more you practice withintent, the better you're going
(33:25):
to be right.
And people always tell me oh, Itake all my time and I do my
pre-shot routine, and so Ilistened to that.
And then sometimes I'll be like, all right, do your pre-shot
routine.
Now do it again.
Was it the same?
It's never the same, right?
It's not?
Normally not.
If they're struggling right,they think it's the same, but
they might've taken two secondslonger over the ball, they
(33:47):
might've taken an additionalpractice swing.
They don't even know they'redoing that.
They may have rushed it.
They might have rushed it right.
So if you're not really lookingand reacting and your mind
isn't clear to exactly whatyou're trying to do, then your
brain's not going to allow yourbody to do it anyway.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
True.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
It's going to be harder.
I'm not going to jump out of aplane if I'm not 100% clear.
Probably will never do that,maybe.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Probably not, though, but your parachute's packed
right.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Yeah, exactly.
And all the straps are on andbuckled accordingly, exactly,
exactly.
All the straps are on andbuckled accordingly, exactly,
exactly.
No, it's good.
Well, we're excited to haveyour whole family here.
Obviously, ken, it's so awesome.
And, darren, I mean, this iswhat Golf Garage Community is
all about.
We get you know, our friendsinvolved, obviously, and other
business owners on the show,which is super cool.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
We love that.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Is this our first doctor, I think it is.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
It is.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, which doctor?
I think it is.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
It is yeah, which is great.
So it's nice to see thatbecause there's a lot of
professionals.
I told dr bonds last week thathe's gonna oh sweet yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
But I mean there's so many dentists and doctors that
um that play golf, so for youit's also a benefit in your
industry to have that networkingability so what?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
what got you?
What got you interested inwanting to go into dentistry?
Speaker 1 (34:57):
oh, just growing up, my dentist I really liked and uh
, my orthodontist.
And after I got my teethstraightened I uh really liked
the look of things.
And you know, I was 16 yearsold and I'm like I could do what
these guys do and I just kindof went for it and uh,
originally I thought I was goingto be an orthodontist.
Just that was kind of myinterest initially.
(35:18):
Um, and I worked into uh,college, got through, got into
dental school and then in dentalschool the ortho classes were
my most boring classes and Icould just barely stay awake
through kind of thing.
I was like maybe that's not notmy orthodontist have to become
dentists first yeah, you have tobe a dentist first to then
specialize into orthodontics orwhatever specialty after that.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
They say that dentistry is ranked in like the
top 5% of highest stress jobs.
Is that true?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Well, it's the only real job I've had, so I can't
compare it, but there's a lot ofstress, obviously.
I mean mean we're dealing withpeople physically every day.
I mean I'm doing procedures topeople that are generally awake,
and part of it.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
So there, there's, there's a lot and, generally
speaking, they're not superexcited.
Yeah, exactly no one.
One of those chores you justhave to do.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Yeah, you gotta do it , and so anytime you hear the
drill when it's inside it's not.
Yeah, exactly, what's that?
What's that?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
yeah, nobody's loving that.
So I mean the only thing Iliked about the dentist.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Was that suction thing that they'd suck?
The water out of your mouthwith nothing cracked me up.
Yeah, it's awesome.
And seeing youtube videos ofkids coming home all drugged up,
yeah, oh, geez, yeah, have youhad what percentage?
Speaker 3 (36:44):
maybe it's against hip at what percentage of people
have to use the gas oh no, Iwould say, very few actually
need it um, yeah we, you give itto anybody who wants it.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, yeah, if they say they want it.
I mean, well, there's someparameters to that and obviously
.
But uh, yeah, for the most partit's fine, but our office in
general, we, it's more of ahassle for us to get the whole
thing out, get it all set up.
Now you got a thing on yournose that's blocking my view
from getting in your mouth, likeI, I don't offer it very much,
(37:18):
just because I don't want to useit.
But uh, people are like, hey, Ineed that.
I'm like, all right, that'sfine, we can do that too.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
So nice, they still have the uh, the big stuffed
animal that you can win eacheach month up there, I think
it's monthly, my quarterly,quarterly, quarterly yeah,
budget cuts I'm just kidding mybrother won the dinosaur and it
was hilarious.
How do you win that?
It's drawing dude.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, it's for a little, uh, our kids program
over there.
So it's part of the uh, we callit the no cavity club.
So you get your checkup, yougot no cavities, you get into
the drawing, and so thenquarterly they pull a name and
uh, yeah, usually the kids aresuper excited and then the
parents are like great, what amI going to do with this giant
stuffed animal in my house?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I'm going to start giving you golf garage 50 off
coupons to give to all yourpatients there you go and then
we'll have the east main dentaluh clinic sign up here.
Yeah, I like that, are you?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
guys accepting new patients.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, yeah, in fact, uh, there's, uh I, actually
three other partners, so there'sfour of us that are um owners
in the group and uh, yeah, we'reall accepting new patients and
uh really glad to just be a partof the community.
Um, yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
What's the best golf course you've ever?
Speaker 1 (38:30):
played Best golf course I've ever played?
Um golf course.
Well, those are probably twodifferent things.
The best course I've everplayed is probably Bandon Dunes
and my favorite golf coursethat's probably a tougher.
One Years ago I was probably inhigh school or college we
(38:53):
played one up in northern Idahoin the Coeur d'Alene area.
Was it the resort course area?
And uh, the resort course.
It was not the resort course.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Uh, and I do not recall the name there's a
private club, a private countryclub up there.
That I've heard is insane.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Yeah, cory caddies there oh, you're talking about
the, uh, the cattle club.
Right, that's in montana,though I.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
No, he caddies for one in Coeur d'Alene and it's a
private club and he said it's.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I guess we got to take a road trip, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I'm down.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah, we got a threesome right here.
Let's go Now, bring the kids.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
All of our kids play.
Yeah, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
That's anything you want me to answer today on the
show.
Anything you've thought about.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Well, as far as golf goes, I would say there's a lot
of info out there YouTube,whatever advice makes my head
hurt.
Oh, so much of it.
And I mean for, like myself,someone who wants to improve, I
want to get better, and it'slike where do I get resources
(40:07):
for that?
Speaker 3 (40:08):
youtube's easy my golf, hop on there.
Yeah, there you go my golf.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Source podcast yeah, what would your advice be?
Um, obviously, getting lessonswould be the answer.
But outside of, what kind ofadvice would you have for
somebody who's like just kind ofscrambling, looking around,
like how do I find justsomething to get me back on
track?
What would be the most basicthing that you would tell them?
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Yeah.
So number one I wouldn't beafraid of YouTube.
I'd be afraid of doingeverything that YouTube shows
you.
I think I have a lot ofstudents that have used YouTube
in the wrong manner because theydidn't understand.
It was like here's the quickestway to fix a slice, here's the
perfect posture.
(40:53):
Well, every player is different, right?
So at the end of the day, whenI have a player that loves
YouTube and I'm starting to workwith them, so I'm assessing
them to see if it's going towork out, no, I tell them I
don't mind if you look atYouTube, but before you try
anything or any questions youhave, you have to talk to me
(41:14):
about it first.
So use it, look at it, be awareof it and then ask for it.
But if you're going on there tosearch for the next fix after
you've taken a lesson from me,then I'm not going to work with
you.
It's pretty simple.
There's no reason for that atall.
You came to me for a reason andso to kind of go into answering
the question of you know, whatshould that person do?
(41:35):
It's all relative in general,because unfortunately I hate the
term, but it's like there's somuch fake news out there.
So YouTube is a good marketingplatform for golf professionals
and for any business owner, andwe watch things that are funny
or catch our attention ordramatic.
Right, we watch the things thatwe think are going to work for
(41:57):
us.
So, unfortunately, I don't thinkthat's the best resource.
Your PGA professional is goingto be the best resource and
ultimately, most of the time,you're probably within 20, 30
minutes of a golf course, evenin a rural area that go to that
professional and ask them whatthey think, or go to that
(42:17):
professional and ask them whothat they would recommend taking
a lesson from.
And this is the.
This is what I always ask mystudents particularly in clinics
, because you don't have a lotof time to help them with their
swing in a clinic is ask me whyI'm giving you that advice.
If I can't answer something I'mgiving you, I shouldn't be
teaching it.
(42:37):
If I can't demonstrate it, Ishouldn't be teaching it, right?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
So at the end of the day, it's sink in more.
Yeah, the why behind it Withoutquestion.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
So ultimately, whether it's a clinic or it's a
one on one or you're juststruggling, you know, and the
other cool thing is, a goodteaching professional can
probably give you something onthe spot that could potentially
help, even by watching you airswing Right spot that could
potentially help, even bywatching you air swing Right.
I mean, there's some, there'ssome really cool things that we
(43:08):
strive ourselves on here at golfgarage and in our coaching
staff that we can find the rootcause of your problem in under
five minutes.
Well, the only thing we've evereven really done in that
situation is watch you set upand then we'll do some
fundamental movements and we'regoing to already know most of
the time how your golf club isgoing to work, based on how you
move.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
What's your favorite tempo training?
Speaker 3 (43:27):
It's pretty easy.
It's the orange whip baby.
All right, all right, and it'sa good friend of mine, so I got
to promote him.
Yeah, orange whip.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I like the blue lag shot too.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, I know you do.
Orange whip, though, creates afeel.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
The orange whip actually too.
Yeah, I know you do.
Orange whip, though, creates afeel Actually, I like the feel
better because it's moreexaggerated, but the lag shot
club.
You actually get to hit a golfball with it and see the shape
of the ball.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
But you forgot to ask one important question why
Exactly?
So the orange whip has acounterbalance on it that's
actually what they trademarkedso that white ball on the
opposite side of the orange ballis.
Nobody can do that, and so thatis why you feel it different
and exaggerated, and it allowsyou to release it.
So the orange whip is designedto go through your natural golf
(44:12):
swing, whatever plane of motionthat is, but it helps you feel
the the club down at the bottomwith good tempo forces sequence
there you go.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
So what do you say to people?
And and I'm 100 guilty of thisI'm going.
I really want to get lessons,but I want to work and improve
my game on my own enough to givethe pro something to work with
yeah, I mean, I think, it's ahuge one yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
I think it's twofold number one.
I'm never gonna sell somebodysomething they don't want, right
?
So if that's the way they wantto go, then let them go that way
, and at the end of the, that'sa huge one.
Yeah, I think it's twofoldNumber one I'm never going to
sell somebody something theydon't want, right?
So if that's the way they wantto go, then let them go that way
, and at the end of the day, ifI'm a good fit for them, then
they'll come back, right, andthat's great and hopefully I get
the opportunity to try.
But it's all relative.
There's a lot of questions youcan ask a person to find out,
(45:00):
you know.
And again I would ask why, likewhy do you think that you know?
I think it's important to findout.
Um, you know, is it that theydon't want to spend the money?
Is it that they don't reallyhave the time?
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Is it that they don't want to invest in it.
I think it's embarrassmentbecause it's like, yes, I'm
capable of hitting really goodgolf shots and I want a pro to
be able to see that and thenimprove upon that.
But until I can do that, evenmoderately consistently, I feel
like I'm wasting my moneybecause they've got no data or
(45:33):
consistency to work with.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yeah, and I think it's up to the professional to
really be able to prove that tothat, that student or potential
student.
And I get the opposite a lot.
I get the people that are soafraid of making a mistake that
they need.
They're like I need a lesson.
I'm not going to swing unless Ihave lessons, and so I think
it's.
You know there's definitelyextremes and I think most people
are on both one end or theother of that.
(45:57):
And you know, with Op36 andother programs that are out
there, I think it really does.
It proves that you're gettingbetter.
Right With our technology.
We have a golf garage.
It proves that you're gettingbetter, and I mean almost every
golf course now probably hassome sort of a launch monitor
because you can buy them for 500bucks.
You can't buy what we have, butyou can buy something that
(46:19):
gives you a general idea ofimprovement.
I mean, more consumers now havethem, right.
They have watches that sync upwith it.
They have range finders thatsync up with your launch monitor
.
It's insane.
So technology is definitelygetting down a rabbit hole and a
lot of times I'll try to teachwithout it, even though I have
(46:40):
it, because you don't get it outthere.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
So here's another question On the course, and I
think it was.
I heard Bryson DeChambeautalking about this.
He said when you're more thanaccurate, striking range to a
six-foot target, he said, forgetabout pin placement, just shoot
(47:05):
for the center of the greenevery time yeah versus using
your range finder, hitting thepin not really knowing where
your pin is on the green.
Yeah, he said, but you havetools out there now, gps tools
out there that don't tell youwhere the pin is, but they tell
you your distance to the front,center and back of the green.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Yeah, exactly, I mean .
So those guys, can you reallygo wrong If you're?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
150 yards out on a par 4, can you really go wrong?
Just forgetting about the pinand just going for the center of
the green every time?
Speaker 3 (47:39):
Yeah, so we do something with our college team
once in a while where we takethe flag sticks out ahead of
time so they don't even knowwhere the where the hole is.
I like that Right, so that's areally good way of doing it.
It's really hard for people toplay away from a target when
they know the hole is theiractual end goal and that's what
(47:59):
gets them in trouble.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
That's why golf courses put the flag in.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
There is to really screw with you to mess me up,
yeah yeah, because I've triedthat in the past too just saying
okay, today I'm obviouslyneeding to get on the green to
be able to put the ball on thehole, so let's just aim for the
middle of the green.
That's so hard to do when theflag's right there.
I'm like why would I try to hitover here when it's over there?
Speaker 2 (48:21):
When you have greens the size of football fields and
it's a back right pin placementit's hard to get it in your mind
to go for the center of thegreen.
I have one of those blue teesspeakers that go on the golf
cart but it tells you front,middle and back.
Yep, yeah, and I found myselflooking at that more than using
(48:42):
my range finder to the pin.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Yeah, and I think number one the average golfer
can't control their ball anyway.
They're worried about contact.
So to have that muchinformation, it just gets
jumbled.
I think the biggest thing isplay to your strengths.
Get out of trouble.
When you get into trouble, hitthe green and regulation inside
(49:06):
of 30 yards If you, if you'rethere, don't waste shots and
miss it.
You know those are kind of someof the basics but ultimately,
you know, if you can't, hit iton the green from a hundred
anyway.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
What's the point?
30 yards and hitting, hittingonto the green and regulation,
that means you must be a reallybig.
No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
What I mean is when you're yeah, exactly when you're
inside 30 yards, knock it onthe green, right, don't, don't
waste shots inside 30.
You got to hit it on the greenfrom there and it's even, it's
even more like 100 right for thebetter players.
So, anyway, no, it's, it's allgood and I think, um, the one
thing about YouTube and the onething about online is that it's
a resource right, and it'sgetting people to want to play
(49:48):
the game, so I don't hate it andultimately it's going to grow
less in business because at somepoint they're going to need
help.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
They're going to watch a YouTube video go oh that
looks easy, that looks easy, Ican do that.
Go to the course and it wrecksthem yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
And, at the end of the day, if that's the direction
they want to go.
I know some people have kind oftaught themselves through
YouTube.
So if it works for you, do itRight.
If you're happy with it, thenthat's great, because you're
going to keep playing the gamethat I love.
That's good, absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Who we got next.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Man, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Who should we bring?
Speaker 3 (50:28):
on.
I know you are Well first ofall I want to thank Dr McGowan
for being here.
Obviously, you know East MainDental Center special place in
my heart.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Our kids go to you now too, so we're pumped about
that, and we might even have afew listeners in Germany come
over to see you.
I know we got a few.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Shout out to those guys.
Maybe we need them to call inand ask some questions.
That would be really reallycool.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
We have a message board on our podcast.
If you go to the podcast site,you can send us a message.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Yeah, it'd be sweet.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
We'd love to have you on the show.
Sounds good.
Until next time, then you'llfind out who's on the show.
All right, yes, take care.
See you next week.
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