August 29, 2024 • 40 mins
My Unexpected Path. Building JYKDoodles from the ground up.
This episode is your chance to uncover Jiyoon's unique journey from artist to thriving small business owner. Discover how her passion for art and a serendipitous purchase of an iPad during the COVID-19 pandemic transformed into a thriving sticker business. Learn about the pivotal moments, including the importance of community support and overcoming practical challenges, that have defined Jiyoon's entrepreneurial path.
We dive deep into the complexities of expanding a small business, from leveraging TikTok to the unexpected challenges of launching new products like keychains. Jiyoon shares candid reflections on consumer behavior, managing finances, and balancing inconsistent income—all crucial learnings for anyone looking to navigate the early stages of a creative career. Gain practical advice on effective marketing strategies and the importance of financial education for entrepreneurs, all through Jiyoon's real-life experiences.
Struggling with imposter syndrome or social anxiety? Jiyoon's story is a testament to the power of a supportive community and the right mindset. Get inspired by her journey to overcome self-doubt and maintain a positive outlook. We also touch on the value of flexibility, self-discipline, and the ability to work independently. Whether you're starting a new venture or seeking motivation to keep going, this episode offers a wealth of wisdom and actionable insights.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniel Koo (00:01):
Welcome to my Perfect Path.
Today's episode, my UnexpectedPath, features a very special
guest, ji-yoon.
Ji-yoon's career journey isnothing short of inspiring.
She has lived in variouscountries and cities, including
Chicago, new Jersey, korea, thePhilippines and now New York.
During the COVID-19 pandemic,ji-yoon turned a simple hobby of
(00:24):
making stickers into a thrivingsmall business.
Her unexpected career pathstarted with a refunded college
meal plan turned into an iPadpurchase, leading her to create
and sell her first items.
Despite initial challenges likedealing with taxes, learning to
market effectively andovercoming imposter syndrome,
(00:44):
ji-yoon demonstrated theimportance of self-discipline,
flexibility and not overthinkingthe process.
In this episode, you will gainpractical lessons on managing
finances, especially theunexpected aspects of taxes for
small businesses and thesignificance of marketing in
creative fields.
Ji-yoon also shares insights onhow to remain consistent and
(01:06):
motivated by treating a businessas a hobby initially and the
necessity of abandoningperfectionism.
Additionally, she discusses thevalue of community support,
both offline and online, and howto remain adaptable in a
fluctuating market.
Even more special, ji-yoon andI went to the same elementary
school in South Korea, adding apersonal touch to our
(01:27):
conversation.
Whether you're curious aboutstarting your own venture or
looking for inspiration to keeppushing forward, this episode is
a treasure trove of wisdom andreal-life experience.
I'm really excited to sharetoday's episode to learn how we
can make our own careerdecisions after listening to
Ji-yoon's stories on the twistsand turns in her career.
I hope you enjoy the episode.
(01:48):
Hey, ji-yoon, thanks for coming.
I really appreciate your timejoining us here at my Perfect
Path, a podcast to explore themotivations and decisions behind
the career paths to inspirepeople early in their career.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, we're really trying toshow what kind of decisions
(02:11):
you've made, what kinds of pathsyou've had, and in order to
help people in their 20s or even30s struggling to find their
path and finding their versionof success.
Kind of going into thequestions.
Can you share a little bitabout where you grew up and what
your childhood was like?
Jiyoon Kang (02:29):
Yeah, I think my childhood was a bit of
everywhere.
I was born in Chicago, but Imoved to New Jersey for a bit.
Then I was in Korea for a goodnine years.
Then I moved to the Philippinesfor the end of my high school
so like two years and then afterthat I was like I want to go
back to the US.
So then ever since then, I'vebeen in Missouri for WashU for
(02:50):
around like seven years and nowI'm in New York since August of
2023.
Daniel Koo (02:56):
I see To give the listeners a little bit of
context.
I know right after college itwas COVID, right?
And I think in your previouspodcast you've mentioned that
you've started this because ofCOVID.
Jiyoon Kang (03:08):
Yeah, it was definitely like an unexpected
path that I took.
So I feel like I started itbecause I mainly wanted just
like stickers from an Etsy shopor Animal Crossing, and then I
didn't find anything that Ispecifically was looking for.
So I was like, oh, why not justmake it myself?
And then, because of COVID, mymeal points got refunded and
(03:31):
somehow that was enough moneyfor me to get an iPad, because I
was saving my meal points upfor this really nice restaurant
at the school.
But that just never happened.
But I have an iPad now.
So that's how it all went down.
Daniel Koo (03:42):
Yeah, we can get into kind of how you decided to
go into this small business, butbefore that, were you always
passionate about this field.
Were you always passionateabout art?
Jiyoon Kang (03:54):
I think so.
When I was a kid I was like, oh, I want to be a mangaka when I
grow up.
I drew a lot of illustrationsand I was really into drawing,
painting.
But I think as time went by Ifound my interest shifting into
different places and one of themwas photography.
So my concentration is actuallylike fine arts, in photography.
So I only ever imagined myselfthroughout college oh, like I
(04:15):
know people say you don't dowhat you actually study outside
of college.
But that's not going to be me.
I'm going to only dophotography for the rest of my
life.
And then I was proved wrong andnow I'm doing illustration
almost full time.
But I feel like it's a verydifferent thing than I imagined
as a kid.
So I think as a kid I think Iimagined myself being like a
(04:37):
mangaka, like a story writer,but I think soon I realized that
I'm not really good at writingstories.
I liked the drawing part alittle bit more and I think
exploring that throughout mychildhood was important to where
I came now.
I think.
Daniel Koo (04:52):
Did you ever explore that option of writing stories
or trying to publish something,or trying to write a manga?
Jiyoon Kang (04:59):
I wrote mangas when I was a kid, but I was like
fifth grade so they like made nosense.
I wasn't like the biggest fanof reading books to begin with,
so I don't think writing was mypath.
So I was kind of like, oh, Ithink I just really liked the
drawing parts.
So it was almost like I wasdrawing a manga so that I could
draw rather than write a story.
So I knew that mangaka was notthe path I wanted to take.
Daniel Koo (05:22):
Were there any particular experiences or
individuals that have influencedyour direction earlier, maybe
in elementary school or middleschool?
Jiyoon Kang (05:32):
I think I've always had peers that I randomly met
describing how difficult it isto take that path, and I think I
had some people actively belike, oh, there are a lot of
other things you can do, likeeven my tutors were like, oh,
you could do something else.
That is more like realistic.
I think at the time it didn'treally affect me, but looking
(05:52):
back at it, towards like when Ihad to apply for college, I
think I thought about that a lot.
At that point I wasn't reallythinking about mangaka anymore.
I think I was just kind of likeoh, do I want to be a
photographer, illustrator, do Ieven have passion for graphic
design?
Because art can divide up intoso many sections?
So I think, rather than like asignificant person, it was
tutors I had, or like teachersI've had.
(06:14):
That influenced me and mythoughts throughout my time.
Daniel Koo (06:18):
It's interesting that you mentioned that people
ask you to be more realistic.
For context, we both grew up inSouth Korea and you know the
culture there is very.
You know you got to berealistic.
You got to choose somethingthat makes money.
I know a lot of parents kind ofsteer their children away from
the arts, music and things likethat because it may be difficult
to get a job afterwards.
(06:38):
Would you say it was morepossible because you moved to
the States?
Jiyoon Kang (06:44):
I don't necessarily think so.
Actually, I don't know if Iwould say in the Korean working
culture, just because I've neverreally actually experienced it.
But when I was interning inKorea I did feel like age was a
very big impact and I think as afreshman at the time in college
I hated that concept and Ithink I didn't want that to
(07:06):
affect me.
I don't know how much that is.
I mean, that place was only oneinternship out of so many
places, so then I don't reallyknow the general gist of what
the work culture there is like,but I think it was definitely
more free to do a small businesshere.
I think there was more freedomin it and people are a little
bit more supportive here about asmall business here, and I
think there was more freedom init and it's people are a little
bit more supportive here aboutit, I think.
Daniel Koo (07:28):
Yeah, I agree, I think people around me here are
more encouraging and maybe to bydetriment, maybe they do
encourage me to try out anythingI want to, because it's
sometimes important to kind offeel fast, um, if it's not a
career for you, right?
Just something that I'venoticed as well.
Uh, let's talk about kind ofearlier in your career, in your
(07:51):
small business, like I know wetalked about covid just a little
bit earlier.
Yeah, like, how was the processof making your first item and
selling it online?
Jiyoon Kang (08:00):
yeah, my god, if I look back to it it was so
unplanned and very abrupt.
It was very like oh, I wantthis as a hobby vibe and it was
like I don't know what else todo kind of vibe.
I remember buying a printer andat the time I didn't know what
an EcoTank was.
So for context, an EcoTank is aprinter that you can use a lot
(08:22):
more of the ink efficiently andthe ink won't run out as much as
regular printers do.
I don't know if it has qualitydifferences necessarily not that
I've noticed it, but I've beenusing it recently.
But back then I had no ideaabout that, so I didn't do any
research.
I just kind of was like I wantto make stickers and I literally
just went to Michaels, bought aprinter that I saw in my first
site and then I was like, okay,this is the printer I want, I
(08:43):
bought it.
And then I got paper likesticker paper.
I didn't even research, likenow I would, but like back then
I was like, oh, I don't evencare what kind of sticker paper
I want, I just want stickerpaper.
So I bought that and then Ijust brought it all together,
drew my thing on my iPad andthen I printed it out and I even
hand cut it.
There was like no laminate oranything and I thought that was
(09:04):
fine at the time because it wasliterally a hobby for me and it
was meant to be literally formyself at the time.
So initially when it started Ikind of sold it like that
because I really didn't thinkthat deeply about how far this
would go.
I think it felt like a oh, likea side hobby, like I didn't
really see myself doing thisfull time.
Daniel Koo (09:23):
I see I do want to get back to how you mentioned.
You don't want to think aboutit too deeply.
I do remember you mentioningthat a lot in your previous
podcast and it seems like amantra that you kind of carry on
, just as the business there'slike many challenges and things
like that, you know, may causeyou to be a little bit more
self-conscious or, you know,maybe it affects your confidence
(09:44):
, but I really like that conceptand we kind of go back to it a
little bit later, would you say,treating it as a hobby and not
something that you have to makemoney on.
Do you think that really helpedyou be consistent with it and
prolong it?
Because I feel like if you wereto jump into something like
this full time, or if you hadthat pressure to make money, it
would be more difficult.
Jiyoon Kang (10:05):
Yeah, I definitely think that was the case, because
a lot of the other friends thatI know that are starting their
businesses now like have a lotof prep ahead of time and they
have like funds beforehand andlike they really have thought
this through and like scheduledeverything out.
Well, I think, because mine wasjust like literally a hobby.
(10:25):
I was like, oh, I don't reallycare how much money is going
into this, I just want to makethis a hobby of mine because I
have nothing else to do.
So.
And even then I didn't evencall it a business.
I was just like, oh, this is ahobby, I'm not doing much, and I
think that really lifted a lotof pressure off of me that could
have potentially been veryheavy, because I feel like
there's a lot of pressurestarting a business and I feel
like there's a lot of pressurestarting a business, and I feel
(10:47):
like the word business justsounds so legit that if you
express that to others, there'salso pressure.
And oh, I told others that I'mstarting a business and there's
like that peer pressure too.
So I feel like I didn't startwith that luckily, because it
was literally just a hobby.
But looking back to it, if Iwere to seriously consider it
from the start, then I thinkthings would have looked a lot
different.
(11:07):
I don't even know if I wouldhave had the courage to just
jump right in.
So, honestly, that's probablywhy I tell everyone to just
start, because a lot of peopleare like scared to start.
I think that's like the biggestthing.
But for me, I think after that,my biggest lesson from having
that hobby was, like, if you'reinterested in something like,
obviously some prep and eventscan be very helpful, but,
(11:29):
however, like if there'ssomething you want to do, just
start and see how it goes.
I think my model changed intolike I'd rather regret doing it
than not doing it.
Daniel Koo (11:39):
I really, I really liked that quote.
I actually remember you sayingthat before and I've been
applying it in my life.
I really even this podcast.
You know I'm trying to regretdoing it rather than, you know,
regret not doing it.
I'm really like that, oh.
I'm so honored yeah.
Jiyoon Kang (11:55):
That is too kind.
Daniel Koo (11:57):
You know, learning every day.
I do want to go over.
Were there any major risks?
Or maybe there are smallerrisks, since you consider it as
a hobby?
But in the very beginning werethere any risks for you or did
you try to minimize a lot of therisk when you're starting?
Jiyoon Kang (12:11):
I think I minimized a lot of risks, though I made a
lot of stupid mistakes becauseI didn't do much research.
I think I wasn't branching outto more than stickers because I
was like, oh, that's just toomuch for me.
Even spending $500 to get somekeychains was so much pressure
at the time.
I remember when I finallydecided to make that jump, I was
(12:32):
shaking, making that payment.
I was like, oh, I can't believeI just made a $500 payment to
get keychains and I was sonervous that I was not finding
the right manufacturer orsomething because I was spending
so much money.
I was like, oh, I hope it's nota scam and I was very much
going back and forth on whetherthis was right or not.
So I would say that Idefinitely was careful in making
(12:54):
that big jump.
Daniel Koo (12:56):
Were there any data points that supported your
decision to move on to keychains, or how did you manage that
uncertainty and fear?
Jiyoon Kang (13:04):
I like posted a lot on TikTok like my stickers, and
then they started getting a lotof views, like starting from
10k to like 50k, 100,000.
And then I was like, oh, like alot of people are seeing these,
maybe I could do something.
Or then stickers, maybe I canmake keychains.
So then keychains aredefinitely like the cheaper
items that you can get, andsmaller in size too in the realm
(13:26):
of this like business.
So then I was I was like, oh,it's like doesn't seem like a
terrible risk, and obviously itisn't.
Like 500 is not in the terms ofbusiness, it's not the biggest
risk you can take.
So I was like, okay, let's doit.
So then I think that's where Idecided to take the risk.
Uh, the funny story is mykeychain first launch actually
didn't do that well oh yeah, Iliterally was so ready I had a
(13:47):
countdown and everything and Iwas like, oh my god, it's gonna
blow up, everyone's gonna buy it, I'm gonna have no keychains
left.
Obviously I hyped myself alittle bit too much, but I
needed that energy because itwas such a big investment at the
time.
But I remember I only got sixorders, like five to six, and
even then I was very grateful.
Daniel Koo (14:04):
But how many keychains did you have?
I guess how many did you order?
Jiyoon Kang (14:09):
I had like a good 500, 400.
Yeah, so after six orders oftwo keychains each, I was like
great.
Now I'm sitting here with like500 and like 88 keychains left.
I was like that's great.
So then that was like a verylike interesting experience.
Daniel Koo (14:31):
So obviously you've continued to sell keychains.
So what kind of pushed you totry out different versions of
keychains and different designswhen the first one was not as
successful as you hope?
Jiyoon Kang (14:42):
I think I delved into different products, and
keychains actually are still notmy best seller in my online
shop at least, surprisingly,they sell well and in person.
Because I feel like peopledon't like paying shipping for
keychains because it's so small,like they think it's like
wasteful and they're like, oh, Iwant to pay shipping for
something more useful.
So then when I moved on tosticky notes, actually people
(15:04):
started adding on one or twokeychains while ordering like
abundance of post-its, becausepost-its are so useful, like you
can use it like every day andyou're not just going to sit on
it and like stare at it.
Daniel Koo (15:15):
Well, some people do , but I do think for post-its
you're able to buy multiple andkind of store them, whereas
keychains I feel like you wouldonly buy one, or something like
that.
Jiyoon Kang (15:24):
Yeah, I think it's like pressuring to buy more than
one and because there's apressure of like, oh, should I
start collecting these and then,or where do I put these?
And there's like that mixtureof response and practicality,
while, as in post-its, it's likewhen you're done with it,
you'll buy a new one.
So that just gets me to returncustomers and also people like
it to give it to others becauseit is useful.
(15:45):
So I think I started thinkingabout practicality more of my
products once I started makingpost-its and saw how much better
it was selling compared to mykey chains.
Daniel Koo (15:54):
Let's talk about kind of like the challenges and
how you overcame them.
It kind of segues in because Ithink you already told us about
your first challenge what weresome of the significant
challenges you faced on yourpath, and I think we can kind of
focus on maybe the finance sideand, you know, working alone
and things like that I thinkyou've mentioned before in your
podcast that I think would beuseful to people listening.
Jiyoon Kang (16:17):
Yeah, definitely.
Tax was my very first challengethat I faced, mainly because I
started as a hobby, didn'treally think much about business
, hence didn't do research abouthow business is supposed to
work as a sole proprietor.
So then I had nothing saved fortax.
I literally just was straightup using it for something else.
Daniel Koo (16:37):
And I had nothing saved aside.
Jiyoon Kang (16:39):
So then when my first tax season came around, I
was bombarded because obviouslyI don't get tax separated, as if
you would get paid in corporate.
So then I don't get the return,if anything, I'm just always
paying.
So then when I got that firstpayment due, I was like wait,
that doesn't make sense.
I was like, oh, my God, I don'thave this kind of money.
Or like, oh, I don't have moneyat all saved.
(16:59):
So then any amount that theygave me was too shocking to me.
So ever since then I've beentrying to get into a habit to
either do quarterly payments orto save up on the side.
Sometimes it works out,sometimes it doesn't.
For example, I was doing reallywell until this tax year
because I didn't know myKickstarter was also getting
taxed and that really hit me.
(17:20):
So then I had to move aroundsome of my finances.
So I think that's somethingthat I still struggle with,
because your income is notconsistent, so you can't guess
how much you're going to get permonth, and then that makes it
very difficult to allocate yourfunds.
It's your decision and yourresponsibility entirely to
decide what goes where and theconsequences that come from your
decision For example, my taxesthis year is solely yours, and I
(17:43):
think that's something that I'mstill struggling with and
something that I really don'treally know how to give advice
either.
My biggest advice is always oh,save 30% aside.
But life doesn't always go likethat.
Like, sometimes you have billsto pay immediately, sometimes
you have big inventory prices topay up front and you might just
need more funds than youusually do.
So that's something I think Istill struggle with.
Daniel Koo (18:04):
That's a big part of what we really need, but we
don't learn earlier in highschool and college, I think you
know to those who haven't kindof gotten to that point yet,
usually on your first job youwork as a contractor or
something like that.
Even as an intern, you're acontractor and a lot of people
make the mistake of not savingfor taxes.
I have made that mistake myself.
(18:25):
I worked for a startup forabout a year and I did not save
for taxes.
Well, I did save a little bit, Idid not know I had to save that
much and you end up with like ahuge tax bill on your TurboTax
or something like that.
You get surprised.
So that's a good tip for anyonestarting, especially unless you
kind of jump into like a W-2,right, like a corporate employee
(18:48):
.
I think everyone kind of goesthrough this phase of like
figuring out how to do taxes andsaving for taxes, and I'm sure
it's much more important inbusiness to kind of handle that.
Jiyoon Kang (18:57):
Yeah.
Daniel Koo (18:58):
How was your process for learning?
Was it mostly internet research, or do you have a CPA or
anything like that?
Jiyoon Kang (19:04):
Initially it was just TurboTax because I didn't
really earn that much.
My first year, second year, Ihad a CPA through like a family
friend, and then now here I haveanother family friend CPA.
So, I feel like I kind oflearned as I go, because I have
to do a lot of out of state constoo, so then I have to register
for a sales tax business foreach of those states.
(19:24):
So then I ended up having to dosome research.
There's a lot of communitiesout there that I can ask these
informations to like.
Now I'm on a discord where alot of us like it's called the
artist valley network and we'reall just there.
We're all like sharing businessadvice to each other and
providing help.
If we know so, then I ask a lotof questions there and a lot of
people give me advice, but it'sall under the like for legal
(19:47):
reasons, like we're not sure howaccurate this info is Like you
should do your own research.
Daniel Koo (19:52):
We can kind of go over it a little bit more later,
but we can also talk aboutwhether someone is going to cut
out for this field or if thateven matters.
Maybe I'll come back to it.
Could you actually share ifthere was a particularly tough
period of time that wasdifficult and how you overcame
that?
I think you've mentionedthere's.
You know things aboutconfidence and comparing
yourself to other businessesthat are that may be doing you
(20:15):
know way better than you are ina similar kind of field.
Jiyoon Kang (20:18):
Yeah, I think the hard thing about this realm is
that everything is so subjective, like, even if you're doing the
same merchandise selling, yourart skills are different, your
artistic style is different andtherefore your audience is going
to be very different for eachof you.
Some might have some overlap,some might not.
So, as a result, I think I hada period of time where I was
(20:38):
very much struggling tounderstand that and when I saw
others that were doingsignificantly well in terms of
follower numbers or salesnumbers Sometimes people will
share how excited they are tohave hundreds and hundreds of
sales in their launch and then Iat the time had my sixth order
of keychain launch.
So I was like I worked reallyhard for this keychain launch.
(21:00):
So then how come mine's notdoing as well?
And I think I had moments ofspiraling where I was like, oh,
it's because I'm notartistically good enough or I'm
just not smart enough All thoselike negative reasons you could
think of.
I was basically spiraling and Ithink imposter syndrome was very
real, where I was like, oh, Ifeel like I don't have enough
skills to be in this realm.
(21:21):
Like, at certain points, youjust feel like you don't deserve
the money either because you'reso deep into your imposter
syndrome like, oh, I don't thinkI deserve the money that people
are giving me.
But I think eventually Ilearned that people love my art
for my art, and the fact thatthey pass through and then they
choose to take out their walletfor me it's actually incredible.
So I try to focus on the oneswho do try to spend money on me
(21:44):
or who do try to support my art,instead of like, why didn't
this person spend money?
Try to focus on the positivesand then I think eventually it
took a long time probably like ayear or two to like get over my
imposter syndrome a little bitbetter than before, to
understand that your skills oryour worth is not valued by your
numbers and that if you'restruggling to sell is probably
(22:09):
that you're not doing a good jobin advertising, rather than
your skills are lacking oranything like that.
Daniel Koo (22:15):
Yeah, I do see that what you said before, like you
think it's not that deep, it'snot that serious that kind of
mindset is kind of coming backhere.
When did you feel like youstarted developing that skill of
not taking it too seriously andnot taking it personally?
Jiyoon Kang (22:31):
I still do it I feel like it's still like.
I definitely still do it.
I think it's something that Itry to keep in the back of my
head because I struggled a lotwith anxiety through college,
like social anxiety specifically.
I was very hyper aware of whatothers were thinking about me
and if somebody responded aslight negative or a reaction
that I didn't expect, I wouldspiral down and think like, oh,
(22:52):
I did something wrong.
I think that's not the responseI wanted or thought would come
out.
Did I do something Like arethey going to hate me?
And I said I think it didn'teven start with my business.
It's definitely stemming frommy personality.
So my advisor at the time wastelling me that at the end of
the day, you have to rememberthat it's not that deep and that
you have to just move on.
And I think that was very, veryhelpful for me at the time and
(23:15):
it was definitely something Ihad to hear.
So I try to apply it to mybusiness.
Imposter syndrome too.
Like, obviously there comes apoint where you have to face
tough aspects of it.
If you're actually seeingserious decline in sales or a
serious decline in following,then I think there is a time
where you can't just be like, oh, it's all that deep Because
it's a survival thing, so youjust kind of have to face that.
(23:37):
But if it's losing one follower, or like somebody said, like I
hate your work Not that I'veheard that before but if someone
was to like criticize my work,I try not to think that everyone
is thinking that way anymore.
Now I'm trying to not take thatso personally, where I'm like,
oh, everyone is secretlythinking that, when there's
clearly a lot of people thatalso love my work and follow it.
(23:59):
To those who are kind ofconsidering this field and
(24:20):
potentially going to have toface these challenges, what do
you thinkined?
So therapy helped me a lot toget out of this, but also
remembering your surroundings,remembering the peers that can
support you, the communitythat's out there and it doesn't
have to be career relatedcommunity either, like even just
your friends, like yoursignificant other.
They can help you so muchemotionally to overcome
(24:41):
challenges, and I also thinkit's really important to
remember that you have come sofar by just starting.
So I think starting itself islike an incredible courage and I
don't know if I could do thisall over again, if it were to
flash forward I don't know like2023.
And I was suddenly thinking Iwant to start a new business.
I don't know if I have thatkind of courage in me anymore to
(25:02):
start something completely new.
So I think it's really amazingthat somebody is trying to start
something and is startingsomething.
So I think you should giveyourself a little bit more
credit sometimes and that willhelp you through the tough times
.
Daniel Koo (25:14):
Yeah, maybe something we can say to our
listeners is something like youknow it will get better, you
know it will stabilize at somepoint, though it can be a little
bit rocky.
Jiyoon Kang (25:26):
Yeah, all you can do is try hard, because I mean,
what else are you really gonnado?
That's true that's true.
Daniel Koo (25:31):
What else are we here in life for?
You know?
you can do your best and seewhat happens yeah, live to our
fullest yeah, I do want to talkabout, uh, what are kind of like
the specific skills or talentsthat have been crucial to your
success in this field?
And obviously success is, youknow, it's kind of like the
specific skills or talents thathave been crucial to your
success in this field, andobviously success is, you know,
it's kind of a loaded term, butI guess for this context I'm
(25:52):
kind of pointing to the factthat you've stabilized to a
certain point.
You kind of have a workflow andthings like that.
So what are some skills ortalents that you would say are
very important in your smallbusiness?
Jiyoon Kang (26:03):
I guess nobody's asking you to do anything and
it's really being on your own.
I think having some sort ofself-discipline is very
significant and self-control.
Your time's very flexible butat the same time, because your
time's so flexible, it's so easyto just waste the time that is
going.
I think I learned over timethat you really have to direct
yourself properly, and the bestway I do this is to write to-do
(26:25):
lists and have a weekly planner.
I have so many planners.
I have monthly planners, weeklyplanners, I have a Google
calendar.
So I think just constantlyplanning life for yourself is
very important, becauseotherwise you find yourself just
wasting hours and dayswondering what should I even do
today or tomorrow?
Daniel Koo (26:44):
Would you say that that's a skill that you've
always had or something that youhad to develop?
Jiyoon Kang (26:49):
I think elementary school, as you know, really
probably grinded us into havinga routine.
Korean elementary schools are alittle more intense than
regular elementary schools.
So, then, I think thatdefinitely was one thing Also
accepting that your life isdefinitely going to look a
little different than a standardnine to five, that sometimes
(27:09):
you will need to work overnight,sometimes you might not be
working at all some days, andyour days off might not be the
weekends anymore.
Your days off could be a Mondayand Tuesday instead of the
weekend and you're working fulltime weekend, which is what I'm
doing sometimes instead of theweekend, and you're working
full-time weekend, which is whatI'm doing sometimes.
So I think accepting that wouldbe better, increasing your
(27:31):
flexibility and also planningahead, knowing that your
schedule is flexible andtherefore there's a lot more you
can do with your time too.
Daniel Koo (27:36):
It also seemed like you were already kind of
comfortable with social mediabefore you started obviously
being in photography and havingthose technical skills, Would
you say having those skills wasvery important for your
marketing and advertising.
Jiyoon Kang (27:50):
Yeah, my hot take is that your marketing skills
are way more important than yourartistic skill in this field,
almost because your ability tobe able to make things into
products, things into tangiblethings and then to be able to
market that to a specificaudience and finding your
audience into the field took alot more effort than just simply
(28:10):
designing.
You have to consider trendsthat are going around on social
media, audios, on reels andTikToks, like learning to read
the trends and the paths, andeven for animes, you have to
keep up with what's coming out,that's new, what are people
interested in.
And then you have to follow theseasons.
Oh, it's Christmas.
Are you coming out withChristmas items?
Are you coming out withHalloween items?
(28:31):
So being able to read the flowof the market, I think, is a
very crucial skill to have morethan your creative skill
personally is my thought,because you couldn't have
creative skills and you can makethe most beautiful thing out
there, but no one's going to buyit if nobody knows it's out
there, you know.
So I think it's very importantthat, at least in the business
realm, like marketing is likenumber one priority, and then
(28:53):
after that we can take care ofthe finance and after that we
can take of the arts and partsthat you feel like you want to
improve.
Daniel Koo (28:59):
I have a question that I feel like we know the
answer to, but do you feel likesome of these skills are innate
or do you think everyone candevelop them over time if they
tried?
Jiyoon Kang (29:10):
I think some parts are innate, like personality is
very innate.
You learn some personality, butalso some things are just.
You can't prevent yourself fromhaving your personality, you
know.
So then I think social skillscan be a skill that is innate,
like if you're more introverted.
I know some of my friends whoare more introverted avoid
conventions and they focus moreon consignments, where they
(29:31):
place a lot of their items inlike a retail store and they
like do a wholesale vibe thereso that they don't have to
necessarily like connect withpeople directly.
But they're still connectingwith people by selling at other
retail stores, connecting withpeople by selling at other
retail stores.
But for conventions a lot moreextroverts, I think, are there,
because unless you have a proxy,you're the one directly
communicating with yourcustomers.
(29:51):
So I think some skills aredefinitely innate in that sense,
but it doesn't mean that it'sbad or good.
Obviously, my introvertedfriends are going to
consignments and other optionsand my extroverted friends are
doing all those cons anddirectly communicating with
their customers.
Daniel Koo (30:06):
So, looking back into your own career, do you
feel like you played more toyour strengths or did you feel
like you kind of went throughthe grain and try to learn a lot
of these?
Jiyoon Kang (30:14):
things.
I think with the start ofconventions, I was able to
tackle my strengths a lot better.
So I think it takes a fewopportunities, like big
opportunities, to be able totackle my strengths a lot better
.
So I think it takes a fewopportunities, like big
opportunities, to be able totackle it.
So then I think courage isneeded, yeah, rather than skills
.
I think you need courage,because I feel like skills can
(30:36):
be learned, but I think what ittakes to learn those skills is
always courage.
So if you don't have courage,you're not going to be able to
go to a con.
If you don't have courage likeyou're not gonna be able to go
to a con, you don't have courage, you're not gonna start your
business.
Daniel Koo (30:50):
so I feel like it always takes up like one step I
guess uh to those listening, youjust have to take the leap and
you just yeah yeah, you just tryit out, see how it goes, just
do it yeah you just learn on theway.
I think that actually reminds meof me working at a startup as
well.
There were definitely skillsthat I promised that I had and I
did learn a ton on the job.
(31:11):
Like I obviously knew how to doa lot of the programming out of
college, but I promised to myemployer that I knew how to do
this iOS app development.
I had taken a class and I had alittle bit of skill, but I
definitely learned 90% of what Iknow now in that job, just kind
of like figuring out how itgoes and kind of throwing myself
into it, and I think that'skind of how we constantly kind
(31:33):
of progress in our respectivecareers as well.
What advice would you give tosomeone looking to develop these
skills, kind of focusing in thesmall business realm?
Jiyoon Kang (31:43):
kind of focusing in the small business realm To not
be afraid to develop skills andto not feel small because
you're just starting.
I feel like you're never reallylate if you're starting now so
that and also learning how tothrow away perfectionism.
You're just starting to learnnew skills.
You're not going to be perfecton the start.
Everyone who launches abusiness actually around me not
(32:04):
everyone, but I've had a fewpeople who really desire the
start of their business to bepicture perfect, Like everything
is ready to go, Everything isthe way they want and it has to
look like exactly what they'reimagining.
But my thought is that it'snever going to look that way and
even if you believe that in afew years, few months of working
, you're going to look back andbe like that wasn't the picture
(32:25):
perfect that I would define now.
So I feel like throwing thataway not only lessens your
pressure but also just will helpyou move forward and developing
, Because I feel like pressuringyourself with perfectionism can
deter you.
Daniel Koo (32:38):
That actually reminds me of a quote life is
either a daring adventure ornothing at all, so there's only
one option, you know there'ssomething in your mind that you
want to follow and you kind ofhave to try it out To those who
are kind of interested in thisfield.
I think they already know theywant to do it right.
So I kind of want to jump in.
So I want to kind of go over towhom would you not recommend
(33:03):
this career and to whom wouldyou recommend this career?
I think there's tons of insightto be gained from what you see
in different small businessowners.
I'm sure you talked about theintrovert, extrovert aspects,
but what's kind of like a singlecharacteristic you would say
that is required if you want tobe in this field.
Jiyoon Kang (33:21):
I think you don't need to enjoy working alone, but
you have to be ready to workalone.
And whether that's working foryourself or for an LLC entirely
that you're making on your own,there are going to be times
where you feel like you're justdoing this on your own and
you're just going to have toaccept that because you're the
one starting everything.
So some kind of lonelinessneeds to be prepared in advance
(33:42):
and will eventually findcommunity.
It just takes some time.
But in the beginning I feellike I felt a lot of that like,
oh, I have no one to talk toabout this, I don't know where
to reach out, I don't know whereto find my community and now I
do, but it really took me sometime to find one.
And also, like I said earlier,you shouldn't let your time go
to waste.
(34:02):
Obviously, if you're doingsomething, you're not wasting
your time go to waste.
Obviously, if you're doingsomething, you're not wasting
your time.
But because your schedule is soflexible, if you, for example,
quit your job and now this isall you have, you can't just let
that time go, you know.
So if you are not ready, forthat or you're not the type that
can guide yourself like that.
I wouldn't say you're reallyready for this.
But other than that, I feellike if you have determination
(34:23):
and effort and a plan, I don'treally see why I shouldn't
recommend this path for you.
Like you should try it, unlessthere are some realistic
obstacles, like you're in debtor like you're like there's like
some other things going on inyour life or realistically it's
not the timing for it.
But otherwise I don't reallysee why.
But I think I see a lot offriends who jump into this area
(34:46):
that are often telling me thatthey were just sick of their
nine to five.
They were sick of working forothers.
They wanted something that wasentirely theirs and they wanted
to present something that isentirely like oh, this is my
idea, this is my brand.
So I think that's something toconsider if you have that at all
in your head, and also someonewho has flexibility in their
(35:09):
time, also in their mind,because things will keep
changing, things that you don'texpect will keep happening.
So I think flexibility isdefinitely key.
Daniel Koo (35:18):
To those listening I would say make sure to minimize
your risk.
You know, don't try to jump in.
And it seems like from yourcareer it's something that you
can kind of start in parallelwith your existing job to put
some stability there.
Thanks for the insight.
Uh, let's kind of fast forwardto the present.
Where are you currently on yourpath and what does your
(35:39):
day-to-day look like now?
Jiyoon Kang (35:40):
day-to-day looks quite different every day, but,
um, I've been doing a lot ofconventions so my weekends are
mostly pretty booked out.
I think twice a month I'm outfor the weekends, and during the
weekdays I either like if Ijust came back from a convention
I'll take a few days offbecause it's just exhausting, or
I'll spend April.
I had no events.
So then I spent a lot of timedrawing, making new things,
(36:02):
brainstorming, organizing myfinances, going through bank
statements, doing taxes, so alot of admin work.
So I think right now I'mprepping for my upcoming events,
like making new products,making new things and trying to
brainstorm new things that areupcoming.
So I'm in like the samplingphases for a lot of items too.
Daniel Koo (36:23):
That are upcoming, so I'm in, like the sampling
phases, for a lot of items too.
Are there any lessons thatwe've mentioned before that
you're actively thinking aboutthese days and you actively feel
like you're glad that you'velearned those lessons before?
Jiyoon Kang (36:34):
Finance and my time .
I think I spent a lot of timewasting away, mainly because I
was so exhausted from Marchbecause I was doing a lot of
events, so I spent a lot of daysrotting, but I do think I
needed that.
So, taking it from there, I wastrying to look through my
finance, see how I can preparebetter for next year's tax
(36:54):
season, because this year was amess, and it's hard because it's
your thought process on whatyou should do better next year.
Nobody's telling you what youshould do better, so it is scary
and it's a little anxietyinducing, but the best I can do,
as I always say, is to try yourbest.
So that's what I'm doing.
Daniel Koo (37:14):
What's one piece of advice to someone that wants to,
you know, have the samebusiness as you like, basically,
who sees you as a role model.
What would you say to them whenthey're just starting out?
Jiyoon Kang (37:25):
Oh, my God, that'd be so flattering.
But I think the main thing isit is a risk, like starting a
business.
I don't know what kind ofbusiness you're starting, but
think about what that risk willdo to you financially for the
next year.
I think all this is a hobby.
I think that's something thatyou should definitely seriously
reflect on.
If you're, for example,thinking about quitting your
nine to five to do this, like,do you have enough savings?
(37:45):
And just being prepared andmaking sure you have a plan,
making sure you have a plan inadvance to know how to get
through these tough times, andalso just mainly, having courage
.
Like don't be afraid to dosomething.
Just like do it.
If you hate it, don't do it,and then, if you want to do
something else, all of a suddenjust switch.
It sounds easy and I know it'snot as easy as it sounds, but I
(38:09):
think you should just followwhat you're thinking of, because
otherwise you're gonna regretit forever yeah, I kind of have
this quote that is alwaysinteresting and the reason why I
kind of try to have thesepodcast episodes.
Daniel Koo (38:23):
Right you can't connect the dots looking forward
.
You can only connect themlooking backwards.
So you have to trust that thedots will somehow connect in
your future.
So that's from Steve Jobs, andI think that's really important
for any of us to kind of learn,and this is why I want to have
guests on the show so that welook back and see what those
dots were, so that people cankind of learn from this.
(38:44):
Lastly, I kind of want to goover the adjective that you
chose.
So this episode is called myUnexpected Path.
Why did you choose thatunexpected?
Jiyoon Kang (38:55):
adjective.
Well, mainly because I reallydidn't expect this to become my
full-time job and I feel likethroughout the whole time, I
still get unexpected things,like my unexpected taxes, my
unexpected finance decisions, myunexpected social media blowups
.
So a lot of things are about menot being able to predict what
(39:15):
the future looks like.
And even now, if you ask mewhat my five-year plan was, I
don't know.
I'm just like I want more money.
Daniel Koo (39:23):
So that's about my five-year plan, but that's about
it, yeah.
Jiyoon Kang (39:27):
So I think that's literally what it is.
Oh, but I will say, going backto the piece of advice I wanted
to add, that timing is veryimportant, so considering your
timing is also something I wouldadd.
Daniel Koo (39:37):
I see.
Thanks so much, kyun.
I think we've learned a lothere, and it certainly was an
unexpected path.
I do think a few things that wecan kind of gain from this is
you know, don't think about ittoo deeply, treat it as a hobby,
just get started and also trynot to be too perfect.
Yeah, and having a growthmindset.
Those are some of the thingsthat I have taken away
personally and I think peoplelistening could also benefit
(39:59):
from.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
You have so many good quotes,oh no, no, I just I thought they
would be kind of relevant hereso I really appreciate your time
.
Jiyoon Kang (40:09):
No, me too.
Thank you for having me, andalways a pleasure to talk to you
.
Thanks bye.
Thanks for watching.
Welcome to my Perfect Path.
Today's episode, my UnexpectedPath, features a very special
guest, ji-yoon.
Ji-yoon's career journey isnothing short of inspiring.
She has lived in variouscountries and cities, including
Chicago, new Jersey, korea, thePhilippines and now New York.
During the COVID-19 pandemic,ji-yoon turned a simple hobby of
(00:24):
making stickers into a thrivingsmall business.
Her unexpected career pathstarted with a refunded college
meal plan turned into an iPadpurchase, leading her to create
and sell her first items.
Despite initial challenges likedealing with taxes, learning to
market effectively andovercoming imposter syndrome,
(00:44):
ji-yoon demonstrated theimportance of self-discipline,
flexibility and not overthinkingthe process.
In this episode, you will gainpractical lessons on managing
finances, especially theunexpected aspects of taxes for
small businesses and thesignificance of marketing in
creative fields.
Ji-yoon also shares insights onhow to remain consistent and
(01:06):
motivated by treating a businessas a hobby initially and the
necessity of abandoningperfectionism.
Additionally, she discusses thevalue of community support,
both offline and online, and howto remain adaptable in a
fluctuating market.
Even more special, ji-yoon andI went to the same elementary
school in South Korea, adding apersonal touch to our
(01:27):
conversation.
Whether you're curious aboutstarting your own venture or
looking for inspiration to keeppushing forward, this episode is
a treasure trove of wisdom andreal-life experience.
I'm really excited to sharetoday's episode to learn how we
can make our own careerdecisions after listening to
Ji-yoon's stories on the twistsand turns in her career.
I hope you enjoy the episode.
(01:48):
Hey, ji-yoon, thanks for coming.
I really appreciate your timejoining us here at my Perfect
Path, a podcast to explore themotivations and decisions behind
the career paths to inspirepeople early in their career.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, we're really trying toshow what kind of decisions
(02:11):
you've made, what kinds of pathsyou've had, and in order to
help people in their 20s or even30s struggling to find their
path and finding their versionof success.
Kind of going into thequestions.
Can you share a little bitabout where you grew up and what
your childhood was like?
Jiyoon Kang (02:29):
Yeah, I think my childhood was a bit of
everywhere.
I was born in Chicago, but Imoved to New Jersey for a bit.
Then I was in Korea for a goodnine years.
Then I moved to the Philippinesfor the end of my high school
so like two years and then afterthat I was like I want to go
back to the US.
So then ever since then, I'vebeen in Missouri for WashU for
(02:50):
around like seven years and nowI'm in New York since August of
2023.
Daniel Koo (02:56):
I see To give the listeners a little bit of
context.
I know right after college itwas COVID, right?
And I think in your previouspodcast you've mentioned that
you've started this because ofCOVID.
Jiyoon Kang (03:08):
Yeah, it was definitely like an unexpected
path that I took.
So I feel like I started itbecause I mainly wanted just
like stickers from an Etsy shopor Animal Crossing, and then I
didn't find anything that Ispecifically was looking for.
So I was like, oh, why not justmake it myself?
And then, because of COVID, mymeal points got refunded and
(03:31):
somehow that was enough moneyfor me to get an iPad, because I
was saving my meal points upfor this really nice restaurant
at the school.
But that just never happened.
But I have an iPad now.
So that's how it all went down.
Daniel Koo (03:42):
Yeah, we can get into kind of how you decided to
go into this small business, butbefore that, were you always
passionate about this field.
Were you always passionateabout art?
Jiyoon Kang (03:54):
I think so.
When I was a kid I was like, oh, I want to be a mangaka when I
grow up.
I drew a lot of illustrationsand I was really into drawing,
painting.
But I think as time went by Ifound my interest shifting into
different places and one of themwas photography.
So my concentration is actuallylike fine arts, in photography.
So I only ever imagined myselfthroughout college oh, like I
(04:15):
know people say you don't dowhat you actually study outside
of college.
But that's not going to be me.
I'm going to only dophotography for the rest of my
life.
And then I was proved wrong andnow I'm doing illustration
almost full time.
But I feel like it's a verydifferent thing than I imagined
as a kid.
So I think as a kid I think Iimagined myself being like a
(04:37):
mangaka, like a story writer,but I think soon I realized that
I'm not really good at writingstories.
I liked the drawing part alittle bit more and I think
exploring that throughout mychildhood was important to where
I came now.
I think.
Daniel Koo (04:52):
Did you ever explore that option of writing stories
or trying to publish something,or trying to write a manga?
Jiyoon Kang (04:59):
I wrote mangas when I was a kid, but I was like
fifth grade so they like made nosense.
I wasn't like the biggest fanof reading books to begin with,
so I don't think writing was mypath.
So I was kind of like, oh, Ithink I just really liked the
drawing parts.
So it was almost like I wasdrawing a manga so that I could
draw rather than write a story.
So I knew that mangaka was notthe path I wanted to take.
Daniel Koo (05:22):
Were there any particular experiences or
individuals that have influencedyour direction earlier, maybe
in elementary school or middleschool?
Jiyoon Kang (05:32):
I think I've always had peers that I randomly met
describing how difficult it isto take that path, and I think I
had some people actively belike, oh, there are a lot of
other things you can do, likeeven my tutors were like, oh,
you could do something else.
That is more like realistic.
I think at the time it didn'treally affect me, but looking
(05:52):
back at it, towards like when Ihad to apply for college, I
think I thought about that a lot.
At that point I wasn't reallythinking about mangaka anymore.
I think I was just kind of likeoh, do I want to be a
photographer, illustrator, do Ieven have passion for graphic
design?
Because art can divide up intoso many sections?
So I think, rather than like asignificant person, it was
tutors I had, or like teachersI've had.
(06:14):
That influenced me and mythoughts throughout my time.
Daniel Koo (06:18):
It's interesting that you mentioned that people
ask you to be more realistic.
For context, we both grew up inSouth Korea and you know the
culture there is very.
You know you got to berealistic.
You got to choose somethingthat makes money.
I know a lot of parents kind ofsteer their children away from
the arts, music and things likethat because it may be difficult
to get a job afterwards.
(06:38):
Would you say it was morepossible because you moved to
the States?
Jiyoon Kang (06:44):
I don't necessarily think so.
Actually, I don't know if Iwould say in the Korean working
culture, just because I've neverreally actually experienced it.
But when I was interning inKorea I did feel like age was a
very big impact and I think as afreshman at the time in college
I hated that concept and Ithink I didn't want that to
(07:06):
affect me.
I don't know how much that is.
I mean, that place was only oneinternship out of so many
places, so then I don't reallyknow the general gist of what
the work culture there is like,but I think it was definitely
more free to do a small businesshere.
I think there was more freedomin it and people are a little
bit more supportive here about asmall business here, and I
think there was more freedom init and it's people are a little
bit more supportive here aboutit, I think.
Daniel Koo (07:28):
Yeah, I agree, I think people around me here are
more encouraging and maybe to bydetriment, maybe they do
encourage me to try out anythingI want to, because it's
sometimes important to kind offeel fast, um, if it's not a
career for you, right?
Just something that I'venoticed as well.
Uh, let's talk about kind ofearlier in your career, in your
(07:51):
small business, like I know wetalked about covid just a little
bit earlier.
Yeah, like, how was the processof making your first item and
selling it online?
Jiyoon Kang (08:00):
yeah, my god, if I look back to it it was so
unplanned and very abrupt.
It was very like oh, I wantthis as a hobby vibe and it was
like I don't know what else todo kind of vibe.
I remember buying a printer andat the time I didn't know what
an EcoTank was.
So for context, an EcoTank is aprinter that you can use a lot
(08:22):
more of the ink efficiently andthe ink won't run out as much as
regular printers do.
I don't know if it has qualitydifferences necessarily not that
I've noticed it, but I've beenusing it recently.
But back then I had no ideaabout that, so I didn't do any
research.
I just kind of was like I wantto make stickers and I literally
just went to Michaels, bought aprinter that I saw in my first
site and then I was like, okay,this is the printer I want, I
(08:43):
bought it.
And then I got paper likesticker paper.
I didn't even research, likenow I would, but like back then
I was like, oh, I don't evencare what kind of sticker paper
I want, I just want stickerpaper.
So I bought that and then Ijust brought it all together,
drew my thing on my iPad andthen I printed it out and I even
hand cut it.
There was like no laminate oranything and I thought that was
(09:04):
fine at the time because it wasliterally a hobby for me and it
was meant to be literally formyself at the time.
So initially when it started Ikind of sold it like that
because I really didn't thinkthat deeply about how far this
would go.
I think it felt like a oh, likea side hobby, like I didn't
really see myself doing thisfull time.
Daniel Koo (09:23):
I see I do want to get back to how you mentioned.
You don't want to think aboutit too deeply.
I do remember you mentioningthat a lot in your previous
podcast and it seems like amantra that you kind of carry on
, just as the business there'slike many challenges and things
like that, you know, may causeyou to be a little bit more
self-conscious or, you know,maybe it affects your confidence
(09:44):
, but I really like that conceptand we kind of go back to it a
little bit later, would you say,treating it as a hobby and not
something that you have to makemoney on.
Do you think that really helpedyou be consistent with it and
prolong it?
Because I feel like if you wereto jump into something like
this full time, or if you hadthat pressure to make money, it
would be more difficult.
Jiyoon Kang (10:05):
Yeah, I definitely think that was the case, because
a lot of the other friends thatI know that are starting their
businesses now like have a lotof prep ahead of time and they
have like funds beforehand andlike they really have thought
this through and like scheduledeverything out.
Well, I think, because mine wasjust like literally a hobby.
(10:25):
I was like, oh, I don't reallycare how much money is going
into this, I just want to makethis a hobby of mine because I
have nothing else to do.
So.
And even then I didn't evencall it a business.
I was just like, oh, this is ahobby, I'm not doing much, and I
think that really lifted a lotof pressure off of me that could
have potentially been veryheavy, because I feel like
there's a lot of pressurestarting a business and I feel
like there's a lot of pressurestarting a business, and I feel
(10:47):
like the word business justsounds so legit that if you
express that to others, there'salso pressure.
And oh, I told others that I'mstarting a business and there's
like that peer pressure too.
So I feel like I didn't startwith that luckily, because it
was literally just a hobby.
But looking back to it, if Iwere to seriously consider it
from the start, then I thinkthings would have looked a lot
different.
(11:07):
I don't even know if I wouldhave had the courage to just
jump right in.
So, honestly, that's probablywhy I tell everyone to just
start, because a lot of peopleare like scared to start.
I think that's like the biggestthing.
But for me, I think after that,my biggest lesson from having
that hobby was, like, if you'reinterested in something like,
obviously some prep and eventscan be very helpful, but,
(11:29):
however, like if there'ssomething you want to do, just
start and see how it goes.
I think my model changed intolike I'd rather regret doing it
than not doing it.
Daniel Koo (11:39):
I really, I really liked that quote.
I actually remember you sayingthat before and I've been
applying it in my life.
I really even this podcast.
You know I'm trying to regretdoing it rather than, you know,
regret not doing it.
I'm really like that, oh.
I'm so honored yeah.
Jiyoon Kang (11:55):
That is too kind.
Daniel Koo (11:57):
You know, learning every day.
I do want to go over.
Were there any major risks?
Or maybe there are smallerrisks, since you consider it as
a hobby?
But in the very beginning werethere any risks for you or did
you try to minimize a lot of therisk when you're starting?
Jiyoon Kang (12:11):
I think I minimized a lot of risks, though I made a
lot of stupid mistakes becauseI didn't do much research.
I think I wasn't branching outto more than stickers because I
was like, oh, that's just toomuch for me.
Even spending $500 to get somekeychains was so much pressure
at the time.
I remember when I finallydecided to make that jump, I was
(12:32):
shaking, making that payment.
I was like, oh, I can't believeI just made a $500 payment to
get keychains and I was sonervous that I was not finding
the right manufacturer orsomething because I was spending
so much money.
I was like, oh, I hope it's nota scam and I was very much
going back and forth on whetherthis was right or not.
So I would say that Idefinitely was careful in making
(12:54):
that big jump.
Daniel Koo (12:56):
Were there any data points that supported your
decision to move on to keychains, or how did you manage that
uncertainty and fear?
Jiyoon Kang (13:04):
I like posted a lot on TikTok like my stickers, and
then they started getting a lotof views, like starting from
10k to like 50k, 100,000.
And then I was like, oh, like alot of people are seeing these,
maybe I could do something.
Or then stickers, maybe I canmake keychains.
So then keychains aredefinitely like the cheaper
items that you can get, andsmaller in size too in the realm
(13:26):
of this like business.
So then I was I was like, oh,it's like doesn't seem like a
terrible risk, and obviously itisn't.
Like 500 is not in the terms ofbusiness, it's not the biggest
risk you can take.
So I was like, okay, let's doit.
So then I think that's where Idecided to take the risk.
Uh, the funny story is mykeychain first launch actually
didn't do that well oh yeah, Iliterally was so ready I had a
(13:47):
countdown and everything and Iwas like, oh my god, it's gonna
blow up, everyone's gonna buy it, I'm gonna have no keychains
left.
Obviously I hyped myself alittle bit too much, but I
needed that energy because itwas such a big investment at the
time.
But I remember I only got sixorders, like five to six, and
even then I was very grateful.
Daniel Koo (14:04):
But how many keychains did you have?
I guess how many did you order?
Jiyoon Kang (14:09):
I had like a good 500, 400.
Yeah, so after six orders oftwo keychains each, I was like
great.
Now I'm sitting here with like500 and like 88 keychains left.
I was like that's great.
So then that was like a verylike interesting experience.
Daniel Koo (14:31):
So obviously you've continued to sell keychains.
So what kind of pushed you totry out different versions of
keychains and different designswhen the first one was not as
successful as you hope?
Jiyoon Kang (14:42):
I think I delved into different products, and
keychains actually are still notmy best seller in my online
shop at least, surprisingly,they sell well and in person.
Because I feel like peopledon't like paying shipping for
keychains because it's so small,like they think it's like
wasteful and they're like, oh, Iwant to pay shipping for
something more useful.
So then when I moved on tosticky notes, actually people
(15:04):
started adding on one or twokeychains while ordering like
abundance of post-its, becausepost-its are so useful, like you
can use it like every day andyou're not just going to sit on
it and like stare at it.
Daniel Koo (15:15):
Well, some people do , but I do think for post-its
you're able to buy multiple andkind of store them, whereas
keychains I feel like you wouldonly buy one, or something like
that.
Jiyoon Kang (15:24):
Yeah, I think it's like pressuring to buy more than
one and because there's apressure of like, oh, should I
start collecting these and then,or where do I put these?
And there's like that mixtureof response and practicality,
while, as in post-its, it's likewhen you're done with it,
you'll buy a new one.
So that just gets me to returncustomers and also people like
it to give it to others becauseit is useful.
(15:45):
So I think I started thinkingabout practicality more of my
products once I started makingpost-its and saw how much better
it was selling compared to mykey chains.
Daniel Koo (15:54):
Let's talk about kind of like the challenges and
how you overcame them.
It kind of segues in because Ithink you already told us about
your first challenge what weresome of the significant
challenges you faced on yourpath, and I think we can kind of
focus on maybe the finance sideand, you know, working alone
and things like that I thinkyou've mentioned before in your
podcast that I think would beuseful to people listening.
Jiyoon Kang (16:17):
Yeah, definitely.
Tax was my very first challengethat I faced, mainly because I
started as a hobby, didn'treally think much about business
, hence didn't do research abouthow business is supposed to
work as a sole proprietor.
So then I had nothing saved fortax.
I literally just was straightup using it for something else.
Daniel Koo (16:37):
And I had nothing saved aside.
Jiyoon Kang (16:39):
So then when my first tax season came around, I
was bombarded because obviouslyI don't get tax separated, as if
you would get paid in corporate.
So then I don't get the return,if anything, I'm just always
paying.
So then when I got that firstpayment due, I was like wait,
that doesn't make sense.
I was like, oh, my God, I don'thave this kind of money.
Or like, oh, I don't have moneyat all saved.
(16:59):
So then any amount that theygave me was too shocking to me.
So ever since then I've beentrying to get into a habit to
either do quarterly payments orto save up on the side.
Sometimes it works out,sometimes it doesn't.
For example, I was doing reallywell until this tax year
because I didn't know myKickstarter was also getting
taxed and that really hit me.
(17:20):
So then I had to move aroundsome of my finances.
So I think that's somethingthat I still struggle with,
because your income is notconsistent, so you can't guess
how much you're going to get permonth, and then that makes it
very difficult to allocate yourfunds.
It's your decision and yourresponsibility entirely to
decide what goes where and theconsequences that come from your
decision For example, my taxesthis year is solely yours, and I
(17:43):
think that's something that I'mstill struggling with and
something that I really don'treally know how to give advice
either.
My biggest advice is always oh,save 30% aside.
But life doesn't always go likethat.
Like, sometimes you have billsto pay immediately, sometimes
you have big inventory prices topay up front and you might just
need more funds than youusually do.
So that's something I think Istill struggle with.
Daniel Koo (18:04):
That's a big part of what we really need, but we
don't learn earlier in highschool and college, I think you
know to those who haven't kindof gotten to that point yet,
usually on your first job youwork as a contractor or
something like that.
Even as an intern, you're acontractor and a lot of people
make the mistake of not savingfor taxes.
I have made that mistake myself.
(18:25):
I worked for a startup forabout a year and I did not save
for taxes.
Well, I did save a little bit, Idid not know I had to save that
much and you end up with like ahuge tax bill on your TurboTax
or something like that.
You get surprised.
So that's a good tip for anyonestarting, especially unless you
kind of jump into like a W-2,right, like a corporate employee
(18:48):
.
I think everyone kind of goesthrough this phase of like
figuring out how to do taxes andsaving for taxes, and I'm sure
it's much more important inbusiness to kind of handle that.
Jiyoon Kang (18:57):
Yeah.
Daniel Koo (18:58):
How was your process for learning?
Was it mostly internet research, or do you have a CPA or
anything like that?
Jiyoon Kang (19:04):
Initially it was just TurboTax because I didn't
really earn that much.
My first year, second year, Ihad a CPA through like a family
friend, and then now here I haveanother family friend CPA.
So, I feel like I kind oflearned as I go, because I have
to do a lot of out of state constoo, so then I have to register
for a sales tax business foreach of those states.
(19:24):
So then I ended up having to dosome research.
There's a lot of communitiesout there that I can ask these
informations to like.
Now I'm on a discord where alot of us like it's called the
artist valley network and we'reall just there.
We're all like sharing businessadvice to each other and
providing help.
If we know so, then I ask a lotof questions there and a lot of
people give me advice, but it'sall under the like for legal
(19:47):
reasons, like we're not sure howaccurate this info is Like you
should do your own research.
Daniel Koo (19:52):
We can kind of go over it a little bit more later,
but we can also talk aboutwhether someone is going to cut
out for this field or if thateven matters.
Maybe I'll come back to it.
Could you actually share ifthere was a particularly tough
period of time that wasdifficult and how you overcame
that?
I think you've mentionedthere's.
You know things aboutconfidence and comparing
yourself to other businessesthat are that may be doing you
(20:15):
know way better than you are ina similar kind of field.
Jiyoon Kang (20:18):
Yeah, I think the hard thing about this realm is
that everything is so subjective, like, even if you're doing the
same merchandise selling, yourart skills are different, your
artistic style is different andtherefore your audience is going
to be very different for eachof you.
Some might have some overlap,some might not.
So, as a result, I think I hada period of time where I was
(20:38):
very much struggling tounderstand that and when I saw
others that were doingsignificantly well in terms of
follower numbers or salesnumbers Sometimes people will
share how excited they are tohave hundreds and hundreds of
sales in their launch and then Iat the time had my sixth order
of keychain launch.
So I was like I worked reallyhard for this keychain launch.
(21:00):
So then how come mine's notdoing as well?
And I think I had moments ofspiraling where I was like, oh,
it's because I'm notartistically good enough or I'm
just not smart enough All thoselike negative reasons you could
think of.
I was basically spiraling and Ithink imposter syndrome was very
real, where I was like, oh, Ifeel like I don't have enough
skills to be in this realm.
(21:21):
Like, at certain points, youjust feel like you don't deserve
the money either because you'reso deep into your imposter
syndrome like, oh, I don't thinkI deserve the money that people
are giving me.
But I think eventually Ilearned that people love my art
for my art, and the fact thatthey pass through and then they
choose to take out their walletfor me it's actually incredible.
So I try to focus on the oneswho do try to spend money on me
(21:44):
or who do try to support my art,instead of like, why didn't
this person spend money?
Try to focus on the positivesand then I think eventually it
took a long time probably like ayear or two to like get over my
imposter syndrome a little bitbetter than before, to
understand that your skills oryour worth is not valued by your
numbers and that if you'restruggling to sell is probably
(22:09):
that you're not doing a good jobin advertising, rather than
your skills are lacking oranything like that.
Daniel Koo (22:15):
Yeah, I do see that what you said before, like you
think it's not that deep, it'snot that serious that kind of
mindset is kind of coming backhere.
When did you feel like youstarted developing that skill of
not taking it too seriously andnot taking it personally?
Jiyoon Kang (22:31):
I still do it I feel like it's still like.
I definitely still do it.
I think it's something that Itry to keep in the back of my
head because I struggled a lotwith anxiety through college,
like social anxiety specifically.
I was very hyper aware of whatothers were thinking about me
and if somebody responded aslight negative or a reaction
that I didn't expect, I wouldspiral down and think like, oh,
(22:52):
I did something wrong.
I think that's not the responseI wanted or thought would come
out.
Did I do something Like arethey going to hate me?
And I said I think it didn'teven start with my business.
It's definitely stemming frommy personality.
So my advisor at the time wastelling me that at the end of
the day, you have to rememberthat it's not that deep and that
you have to just move on.
And I think that was very, veryhelpful for me at the time and
(23:15):
it was definitely something Ihad to hear.
So I try to apply it to mybusiness.
Imposter syndrome too.
Like, obviously there comes apoint where you have to face
tough aspects of it.
If you're actually seeingserious decline in sales or a
serious decline in following,then I think there is a time
where you can't just be like, oh, it's all that deep Because
it's a survival thing, so youjust kind of have to face that.
(23:37):
But if it's losing one follower, or like somebody said, like I
hate your work Not that I'veheard that before but if someone
was to like criticize my work,I try not to think that everyone
is thinking that way anymore.
Now I'm trying to not take thatso personally, where I'm like,
oh, everyone is secretlythinking that, when there's
clearly a lot of people thatalso love my work and follow it.
(23:59):
To those who are kind ofconsidering this field and
(24:20):
potentially going to have toface these challenges, what do
you thinkined?
So therapy helped me a lot toget out of this, but also
remembering your surroundings,remembering the peers that can
support you, the communitythat's out there and it doesn't
have to be career relatedcommunity either, like even just
your friends, like yoursignificant other.
They can help you so muchemotionally to overcome
(24:41):
challenges, and I also thinkit's really important to
remember that you have come sofar by just starting.
So I think starting itself islike an incredible courage and I
don't know if I could do thisall over again, if it were to
flash forward I don't know like2023.
And I was suddenly thinking Iwant to start a new business.
I don't know if I have thatkind of courage in me anymore to
(25:02):
start something completely new.
So I think it's really amazingthat somebody is trying to start
something and is startingsomething.
So I think you should giveyourself a little bit more
credit sometimes and that willhelp you through the tough times
.
Daniel Koo (25:14):
Yeah, maybe something we can say to our
listeners is something like youknow it will get better, you
know it will stabilize at somepoint, though it can be a little
bit rocky.
Jiyoon Kang (25:26):
Yeah, all you can do is try hard, because I mean,
what else are you really gonnado?
That's true that's true.
Daniel Koo (25:31):
What else are we here in life for?
You know?
you can do your best and seewhat happens yeah, live to our
fullest yeah, I do want to talkabout, uh, what are kind of like
the specific skills or talentsthat have been crucial to your
success in this field?
And obviously success is, youknow, it's kind of like the
specific skills or talents thathave been crucial to your
success in this field, andobviously success is, you know,
it's kind of a loaded term, butI guess for this context I'm
(25:52):
kind of pointing to the factthat you've stabilized to a
certain point.
You kind of have a workflow andthings like that.
So what are some skills ortalents that you would say are
very important in your smallbusiness?
Jiyoon Kang (26:03):
I guess nobody's asking you to do anything and
it's really being on your own.
I think having some sort ofself-discipline is very
significant and self-control.
Your time's very flexible butat the same time, because your
time's so flexible, it's so easyto just waste the time that is
going.
I think I learned over timethat you really have to direct
yourself properly, and the bestway I do this is to write to-do
(26:25):
lists and have a weekly planner.
I have so many planners.
I have monthly planners, weeklyplanners, I have a Google
calendar.
So I think just constantlyplanning life for yourself is
very important, becauseotherwise you find yourself just
wasting hours and dayswondering what should I even do
today or tomorrow?
Daniel Koo (26:44):
Would you say that that's a skill that you've
always had or something that youhad to develop?
Jiyoon Kang (26:49):
I think elementary school, as you know, really
probably grinded us into havinga routine.
Korean elementary schools are alittle more intense than
regular elementary schools.
So, then, I think thatdefinitely was one thing Also
accepting that your life isdefinitely going to look a
little different than a standardnine to five, that sometimes
(27:09):
you will need to work overnight,sometimes you might not be
working at all some days, andyour days off might not be the
weekends anymore.
Your days off could be a Mondayand Tuesday instead of the
weekend and you're working fulltime weekend, which is what I'm
doing sometimes instead of theweekend, and you're working
full-time weekend, which is whatI'm doing sometimes.
So I think accepting that wouldbe better, increasing your
(27:31):
flexibility and also planningahead, knowing that your
schedule is flexible andtherefore there's a lot more you
can do with your time too.
Daniel Koo (27:36):
It also seemed like you were already kind of
comfortable with social mediabefore you started obviously
being in photography and havingthose technical skills, Would
you say having those skills wasvery important for your
marketing and advertising.
Jiyoon Kang (27:50):
Yeah, my hot take is that your marketing skills
are way more important than yourartistic skill in this field,
almost because your ability tobe able to make things into
products, things into tangiblethings and then to be able to
market that to a specificaudience and finding your
audience into the field took alot more effort than just simply
(28:10):
designing.
You have to consider trendsthat are going around on social
media, audios, on reels andTikToks, like learning to read
the trends and the paths, andeven for animes, you have to
keep up with what's coming out,that's new, what are people
interested in.
And then you have to follow theseasons.
Oh, it's Christmas.
Are you coming out withChristmas items?
Are you coming out withHalloween items?
(28:31):
So being able to read the flowof the market, I think, is a
very crucial skill to have morethan your creative skill
personally is my thought,because you couldn't have
creative skills and you can makethe most beautiful thing out
there, but no one's going to buyit if nobody knows it's out
there, you know.
So I think it's very importantthat, at least in the business
realm, like marketing is likenumber one priority, and then
(28:53):
after that we can take care ofthe finance and after that we
can take of the arts and partsthat you feel like you want to
improve.
Daniel Koo (28:59):
I have a question that I feel like we know the
answer to, but do you feel likesome of these skills are innate
or do you think everyone candevelop them over time if they
tried?
Jiyoon Kang (29:10):
I think some parts are innate, like personality is
very innate.
You learn some personality, butalso some things are just.
You can't prevent yourself fromhaving your personality, you
know.
So then I think social skillscan be a skill that is innate,
like if you're more introverted.
I know some of my friends whoare more introverted avoid
conventions and they focus moreon consignments, where they
(29:31):
place a lot of their items inlike a retail store and they
like do a wholesale vibe thereso that they don't have to
necessarily like connect withpeople directly.
But they're still connectingwith people by selling at other
retail stores, connecting withpeople by selling at other
retail stores.
But for conventions a lot moreextroverts, I think, are there,
because unless you have a proxy,you're the one directly
communicating with yourcustomers.
(29:51):
So I think some skills aredefinitely innate in that sense,
but it doesn't mean that it'sbad or good.
Obviously, my introvertedfriends are going to
consignments and other optionsand my extroverted friends are
doing all those cons anddirectly communicating with
their customers.
Daniel Koo (30:06):
So, looking back into your own career, do you
feel like you played more toyour strengths or did you feel
like you kind of went throughthe grain and try to learn a lot
of these?
Jiyoon Kang (30:14):
things.
I think with the start ofconventions, I was able to
tackle my strengths a lot better.
So I think it takes a fewopportunities, like big
opportunities, to be able totackle my strengths a lot better
.
So I think it takes a fewopportunities, like big
opportunities, to be able totackle it.
So then I think courage isneeded, yeah, rather than skills
.
I think you need courage,because I feel like skills can
(30:36):
be learned, but I think what ittakes to learn those skills is
always courage.
So if you don't have courage,you're not going to be able to
go to a con.
If you don't have courage likeyou're not gonna be able to go
to a con, you don't have courage, you're not gonna start your
business.
Daniel Koo (30:50):
so I feel like it always takes up like one step I
guess uh to those listening, youjust have to take the leap and
you just yeah yeah, you just tryit out, see how it goes, just
do it yeah you just learn on theway.
I think that actually reminds meof me working at a startup as
well.
There were definitely skillsthat I promised that I had and I
did learn a ton on the job.
(31:11):
Like I obviously knew how to doa lot of the programming out of
college, but I promised to myemployer that I knew how to do
this iOS app development.
I had taken a class and I had alittle bit of skill, but I
definitely learned 90% of what Iknow now in that job, just kind
of like figuring out how itgoes and kind of throwing myself
into it, and I think that'skind of how we constantly kind
(31:33):
of progress in our respectivecareers as well.
What advice would you give tosomeone looking to develop these
skills, kind of focusing in thesmall business realm?
Jiyoon Kang (31:43):
kind of focusing in the small business realm To not
be afraid to develop skills andto not feel small because
you're just starting.
I feel like you're never reallylate if you're starting now so
that and also learning how tothrow away perfectionism.
You're just starting to learnnew skills.
You're not going to be perfecton the start.
Everyone who launches abusiness actually around me not
(32:04):
everyone, but I've had a fewpeople who really desire the
start of their business to bepicture perfect, Like everything
is ready to go, Everything isthe way they want and it has to
look like exactly what they'reimagining.
But my thought is that it'snever going to look that way and
even if you believe that in afew years, few months of working
, you're going to look back andbe like that wasn't the picture
(32:25):
perfect that I would define now.
So I feel like throwing thataway not only lessens your
pressure but also just will helpyou move forward and developing
, Because I feel like pressuringyourself with perfectionism can
deter you.
Daniel Koo (32:38):
That actually reminds me of a quote life is
either a daring adventure ornothing at all, so there's only
one option, you know there'ssomething in your mind that you
want to follow and you kind ofhave to try it out To those who
are kind of interested in thisfield.
I think they already know theywant to do it right.
So I kind of want to jump in.
So I want to kind of go over towhom would you not recommend
(33:03):
this career and to whom wouldyou recommend this career?
I think there's tons of insightto be gained from what you see
in different small businessowners.
I'm sure you talked about theintrovert, extrovert aspects,
but what's kind of like a singlecharacteristic you would say
that is required if you want tobe in this field.
Jiyoon Kang (33:21):
I think you don't need to enjoy working alone, but
you have to be ready to workalone.
And whether that's working foryourself or for an LLC entirely
that you're making on your own,there are going to be times
where you feel like you're justdoing this on your own and
you're just going to have toaccept that because you're the
one starting everything.
So some kind of lonelinessneeds to be prepared in advance
(33:42):
and will eventually findcommunity.
It just takes some time.
But in the beginning I feellike I felt a lot of that like,
oh, I have no one to talk toabout this, I don't know where
to reach out, I don't know whereto find my community and now I
do, but it really took me sometime to find one.
And also, like I said earlier,you shouldn't let your time go
to waste.
(34:02):
Obviously, if you're doingsomething, you're not wasting
your time go to waste.
Obviously, if you're doingsomething, you're not wasting
your time.
But because your schedule is soflexible, if you, for example,
quit your job and now this isall you have, you can't just let
that time go, you know.
So if you are not ready, forthat or you're not the type that
can guide yourself like that.
I wouldn't say you're reallyready for this.
But other than that, I feellike if you have determination
(34:23):
and effort and a plan, I don'treally see why I shouldn't
recommend this path for you.
Like you should try it, unlessthere are some realistic
obstacles, like you're in debtor like you're like there's like
some other things going on inyour life or realistically it's
not the timing for it.
But otherwise I don't reallysee why.
But I think I see a lot offriends who jump into this area
(34:46):
that are often telling me thatthey were just sick of their
nine to five.
They were sick of working forothers.
They wanted something that wasentirely theirs and they wanted
to present something that isentirely like oh, this is my
idea, this is my brand.
So I think that's something toconsider if you have that at all
in your head, and also someonewho has flexibility in their
(35:09):
time, also in their mind,because things will keep
changing, things that you don'texpect will keep happening.
So I think flexibility isdefinitely key.
Daniel Koo (35:18):
To those listening I would say make sure to minimize
your risk.
You know, don't try to jump in.
And it seems like from yourcareer it's something that you
can kind of start in parallelwith your existing job to put
some stability there.
Thanks for the insight.
Uh, let's kind of fast forwardto the present.
Where are you currently on yourpath and what does your
(35:39):
day-to-day look like now?
Jiyoon Kang (35:40):
day-to-day looks quite different every day, but,
um, I've been doing a lot ofconventions so my weekends are
mostly pretty booked out.
I think twice a month I'm outfor the weekends, and during the
weekdays I either like if Ijust came back from a convention
I'll take a few days offbecause it's just exhausting, or
I'll spend April.
I had no events.
So then I spent a lot of timedrawing, making new things,
(36:02):
brainstorming, organizing myfinances, going through bank
statements, doing taxes, so alot of admin work.
So I think right now I'mprepping for my upcoming events,
like making new products,making new things and trying to
brainstorm new things that areupcoming.
So I'm in like the samplingphases for a lot of items too.
Daniel Koo (36:23):
That are upcoming, so I'm in, like the sampling
phases, for a lot of items too.
Are there any lessons thatwe've mentioned before that
you're actively thinking aboutthese days and you actively feel
like you're glad that you'velearned those lessons before?
Jiyoon Kang (36:34):
Finance and my time .
I think I spent a lot of timewasting away, mainly because I
was so exhausted from Marchbecause I was doing a lot of
events, so I spent a lot of daysrotting, but I do think I
needed that.
So, taking it from there, I wastrying to look through my
finance, see how I can preparebetter for next year's tax
(36:54):
season, because this year was amess, and it's hard because it's
your thought process on whatyou should do better next year.
Nobody's telling you what youshould do better, so it is scary
and it's a little anxietyinducing, but the best I can do,
as I always say, is to try yourbest.
So that's what I'm doing.
Daniel Koo (37:14):
What's one piece of advice to someone that wants to,
you know, have the samebusiness as you like, basically,
who sees you as a role model.
What would you say to them whenthey're just starting out?
Jiyoon Kang (37:25):
Oh, my God, that'd be so flattering.
But I think the main thing isit is a risk, like starting a
business.
I don't know what kind ofbusiness you're starting, but
think about what that risk willdo to you financially for the
next year.
I think all this is a hobby.
I think that's something thatyou should definitely seriously
reflect on.
If you're, for example,thinking about quitting your
nine to five to do this, like,do you have enough savings?
(37:45):
And just being prepared andmaking sure you have a plan,
making sure you have a plan inadvance to know how to get
through these tough times, andalso just mainly, having courage
.
Like don't be afraid to dosomething.
Just like do it.
If you hate it, don't do it,and then, if you want to do
something else, all of a suddenjust switch.
It sounds easy and I know it'snot as easy as it sounds, but I
(38:09):
think you should just followwhat you're thinking of, because
otherwise you're gonna regretit forever yeah, I kind of have
this quote that is alwaysinteresting and the reason why I
kind of try to have thesepodcast episodes.
Daniel Koo (38:23):
Right you can't connect the dots looking forward
.
You can only connect themlooking backwards.
So you have to trust that thedots will somehow connect in
your future.
So that's from Steve Jobs, andI think that's really important
for any of us to kind of learn,and this is why I want to have
guests on the show so that welook back and see what those
dots were, so that people cankind of learn from this.
(38:44):
Lastly, I kind of want to goover the adjective that you
chose.
So this episode is called myUnexpected Path.
Why did you choose thatunexpected?
Jiyoon Kang (38:55):
adjective.
Well, mainly because I reallydidn't expect this to become my
full-time job and I feel likethroughout the whole time, I
still get unexpected things,like my unexpected taxes, my
unexpected finance decisions, myunexpected social media blowups
.
So a lot of things are about menot being able to predict what
(39:15):
the future looks like.
And even now, if you ask mewhat my five-year plan was, I
don't know.
I'm just like I want more money.
Daniel Koo (39:23):
So that's about my five-year plan, but that's about
it, yeah.
Jiyoon Kang (39:27):
So I think that's literally what it is.
Oh, but I will say, going backto the piece of advice I wanted
to add, that timing is veryimportant, so considering your
timing is also something I wouldadd.
Daniel Koo (39:37):
I see.
Thanks so much, kyun.
I think we've learned a lothere, and it certainly was an
unexpected path.
I do think a few things that wecan kind of gain from this is
you know, don't think about ittoo deeply, treat it as a hobby,
just get started and also trynot to be too perfect.
Yeah, and having a growthmindset.
Those are some of the thingsthat I have taken away
personally and I think peoplelistening could also benefit
(39:59):
from.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
You have so many good quotes,oh no, no, I just I thought they
would be kind of relevant hereso I really appreciate your time
.
Jiyoon Kang (40:09):
No, me too.
Thank you for having me, andalways a pleasure to talk to you
.
Thanks bye.
Thanks for watching.
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