Episode Transcript
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Maci (00:00):
I would say one of the
significant challenges that
comes to mind on this careerpath was would I be able to
match my corporate income?
Because at the time I startedmy business in 2020, and I was
still in my corporate job upuntil late 2022.
And at the time I was doingfairly okay with Mualcaina, but
(00:23):
it wasn't like full-time money.
I was lucky in that I did havea Kickstarter in late 2021,
early 22 that did super well andthat actually got me to be able
to pay myself, but it was a bitof a struggle trying to find a
way to make enough money at thetime and learning what other
ways I can diversify my income,because I can't just rely on
(00:46):
online business.
Daniel Koo (00:48):
Welcome to my
Perfect Path, a show about
chasing dreams and developingcareers.
In today's episode, my DigitalPath, we explore the journey of
Maci from Mokaina.
Mokaina is a personal brandknown for its online store that
specializes in creating cuteanime kawaii inspired
merchandise, including enamelpins, vinyl stickers, apparel
(01:09):
and accessories like bags andphone grips.
Her instagram is at 52 000followers and if you see her at
anime expo or artist alleyconferences, her booth is
extremely busy.
Before her career, Maci beganby creating Instagram accounts
when she was in high school.
She was always in a digitallife, knowing how to engage with
(01:30):
audiences on social media.
She later interned at BuzzFeedand, while working, she founded
her small business Molkaina.
Maci from Molkaina, welcome tomy Perfect Path.
I'm thrilled to have you here.
Maci (01:45):
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited.
Daniel Koo (01:48):
Just to kick us off
from a high level.
What were some of the rolesyou've had in the past?
I know you've had a lot, so Ijust want to set up some context
for the listeners.
Maci (01:56):
Yeah, so some of my roles
from the past.
Starting with high school, Istarted this Instagram called
Drawings by Maci X, where Ibasically created lyric drawings
of some of my favorite songs.
A lot of it was One Direction,because it was 2013, 2014 at the
time.
After that, I had a fewentertainment internships in
college.
(02:17):
Then post-college, I had a fewcontract roles before I started
my full-time role in a mediacompany for about a year and a
half and then fast forward tonow I have my small business,
molkana, for about two, threeyears now.
Daniel Koo (02:31):
So for this small
business, what is your role in
it?
Maci (02:34):
Yeah, so I would say I'm
the.
It sounds weird to call it likeI'm the CEO, but I'm the artist
and designer behind it andbasically my small business is a
lot of Japanese kawaii inspiredanime fan art, and now I'm
trying to go into original art.
I first started with vinylstickers, since I basically
started this business when mylove for anime was reignited
(02:57):
during the pandemic, and nowthree, four years later, I have
my designs on enamel pins, itabags, vinyl stickers, apparel
and a lot of other products.
Daniel Koo (03:08):
So, as a owner and
founder, what does your
day-to-day look like for thisbusiness?
Maci (03:14):
It varies, especially now
that I'm full-on in convention
prep, since it's summer conseason, but typically, if it's
the average day, I usually packa lot of the online orders and I
have my orders from Shopify aswell as Etsy.
Another part of it is a lot ofcontent creation, so that's
filming orders that I've beenputting together, or even a lot
(03:36):
of artist alley tips which wecan kind of talk about later,
and a lot of it is also qualitychecking.
I do have a few friends whocome in the office so they're
helping with packing and justeverything else in the office,
but I feel like that's a bigmajority of what I do.
Daniel Koo (03:50):
So I guess half of
it is very home-based and half
of it is intense outdoor, youknow, going to cons and things
like that.
Yeah, I think, to set up somecontext, Maci goes to these
conferences like Anime Expo andkind of involved with the Artist
Alley so she would have to packcases and cases of merch that
she's made and selling.
(04:11):
So it's an intense like three,four days of a lot of business
and a lot of selling and at thesame time she creates vlogs.
So it's a very intense life, Iwould say.
But I think it is paired with alot of like at homework where
you're doing editing and youknow you're managing inventory
and also designing things.
Definitely, yeah, very cool.
(04:32):
Who is your customer personaand who is your target audience
for your small business?
Maci (04:37):
I would say my target
audience for my small business
is people who probably go toanime conventions like on the
side as a side thing andprobably prefer more subtle
anime merch.
I have seen some businessesthat have very obvious like, oh,
that's definitely anime, butI'm trying to go into the
direction where, as an adult,you might not want all of your
(05:02):
stuff to be anime.
Daniel Koo (05:03):
I've definitely seen
cars with anime plastered on
the side, but I guess you'retargeting more anime as a
lifestyle, so you have a littlebit of merch here and there with
your favorite characters andfavorite stories there, exactly,
okay.
So for this episode you chosethe word digital for your
adjective, so this episode iscalled my Digital Path.
(05:25):
Could you share with us why youchose that adjective?
Maci (05:28):
I would say a lot of my
life has been via digital means,
especially since I startedgoing on social media and
actually using it veryfrequently.
Since high school and it's beenabout 10 years now that I've
been working on social media,being on social media and even a
lot of the designs I do.
They're all very digital.
I don't necessarily dotraditional art like with a
(05:50):
pencil paper.
A lot of my work has been on aniPad using Procreate and then
vectorizing everything on AdobeIllustrator, so a lot of it is
very much digital based and Ifeel like that encompasses all
of my business and lifestyleright now.
Daniel Koo (06:04):
I think we'll take
that as like a theme throughout
this episode.
You'll be able to see thingsyou would work in high school,
the things you worked after.
It's all very digital relatedand very creative, so I'm very
excited to dig into that.
And also, if you fit thecustomer persona, please go to
Volcano and buy a ton of merch.
Also, if you're interested inthis kind of lifestyle, I think
(06:26):
it's great to look at Maci'spodcast and her YouTube videos.
They're very detailed and theygive you a lot of tips on how to
become a creator and alsoowning your own small business.
So please visit.
Yeah, okay, for the nextsegment, we're going to cover
some information from your earlyinfluences.
So the question would be canyou share a bit about where you
(06:46):
grew up and what your childhoodwas like?
Maci (06:49):
Looking back on my
childhood, I was basically born
and raised in Los Angeles, Ithink.
Growing up I wouldn't say I hadtraditional Asian parents, even
though they did immigrate herefrom the Philippines.
Growing up I was very supportedwith my career options, even
though, being Filipino,sometimes they would say like,
(07:10):
oh, you should be a nurse.
And initially I was interestedin the medical field.
I did want to be a surgeon upuntil, I think, my sophomore no
freshman or sophomore year ofcollege and I realized I'm not
good at chemistry, nor am I veryinterested in it and I'm not
good at those.
Daniel Koo (07:23):
And at the time I
realized I'm not good at
chemistry, nor am I veryinterested in it.
No worries, I'm not good atthose either.
Maci (07:27):
And at the time I realized
because of the Drawings by Maci
X account, I was very muchinterested in the entertainment
industry and because of mynewfound interest in social
media and marketing, I thought,you know, I should just try and
see where that can take me.
And here I am now.
Daniel Koo (07:43):
Were there any
particular experiences or
individuals that influenced yourdirection at a young age?
Maci (07:47):
I would say my parents,
though this answered the
previous question.
My parents were very supportiveof whatever I did, even like
growing up as the art kid.
I would often be gifted artsupplies because of my love for
art, and it was neverdiscouraged for me to go into an
industry similar to that, eventhough it wasn't something I was
(08:10):
considering at the time.
And even now, with my business,my mom has always been very
supportive of what I do rightnow.
Daniel Koo (08:18):
Do you think that
played a big part in being able
to continue with art at a youngage?
I come from a Korean family aswell, Although I became an
engineer.
It was not like a pressuredenvironment.
They were very encouraging onwhat you do.
Do you think if they weren'tsupportive at that time, you
would have gone with a totallydifferent career track?
Maci (08:37):
I think so.
I'm fortunate now that not onlymy parents but even the family
that I do have in LA, they'vealways been very supportive with
whatever I wanted to do, evenwith my business.
No one's ever commentedanything poorly about it, and
maybe it's also because I amdoing well with my business that
they're not saying anything bad.
But a lot of them like to go tosome of my events, like for 626
(09:01):
Night Market that one's localto some of them, so they like to
visit just to say hi or get mesome food, and I don't think I
would be where I am right now ifit wasn't for their support.
Daniel Koo (09:11):
Do you think being
in LA that helped a lot as well?
I know there's a lot ofcreators here.
Maci (09:17):
I would say LA definitely
helped a lot, especially with my
current business, because itdoes require a lot of
conventions and a lot of events,and a good majority of the more
successful and big events arein Los Angeles, like Anime Expo,
for example, is one of thebiggest anime conventions in the
United States I believe.
They boast about over 100,000attendees, and especially with
(09:41):
AX it's such a big chunk of myincome that it would be a lot
more difficult if I wasn't localto LA to do Anime Expo.
I know some people who have tofly from across the country.
They have to spend money onplane tickets, shipping,
everything and that adds up.
However, in my case, I'm nottoo far from the LA Convention
(10:01):
Center, so then I can justrestock items if I need to, and
it's not really a problem for me.
And again, all of theconventions are in LA, so my
costs are very low and it's veryconvenient for me to go there
versus not living in SoCal.
Daniel Koo (10:15):
When did you first
realize what you were passionate
about?
Was there a specific moment oran event?
Or maybe it was somethingrelated in your high school,
your experiments?
When did you first realize whatyou were passionate about?
Maci (10:27):
I realized I was
passionate about social media
and art, together with theDrawings by Maci X Instagram
account.
Because at the time growing up,when I think of art or being an
artist, I thought, oh, you'renot going to make a lot of money
.
But when I realized when Iwould sell my drawings on social
media and on Etsy and Redbubble, I realized like, oh, there is
(10:50):
a market for this and there is apossibility of making money off
of my art.
And at the time the peakfollower account for that
Instagram was around 150,000followers.
And that's when I realized Idid have a knack for social
media.
I just wasn't sure at the timehow I can make that into a
career.
Daniel Koo (11:09):
I see I mean to say
the least.
I think 150,000 followers onInstagram is actually a very big
achievement, yeah.
Maci (11:16):
Especially at the time too
, like I think that was 2013,.
2014.
Daniel Koo (11:19):
That makes me look
at my own Instagram and I'm a
little sad now but it's okay,I'm not an influencer, we'll see
.
But I think basically fromearlier on there were signs that
you could use as confidenceright as a metric that you can
use for evidence that you can gothrough this career and you'll
make it.
I think that's definitelysomething that really helped you
(11:41):
kind of grow and be moreconfident in that area.
I kind of had a similarexperience as well when I was in
eighth grade, I think.
I went to a Center for TalentedYouth camp and there was a
computer science course that Idid and it was just about
introduction to Python and Irealized then that coding was
something that I really wantedto do and I knew earlier on that
(12:03):
this is my path.
I didn't actually dig intocoding until the end of high
school, but I think just havingdone something earlier and
knowing really helps you getinspired and it pushes you
through.
We'll talk about early career,moving into your early 20s.
What were some of the pivotalchoices you faced?
I think maybe it's good to kindof zero in on the internship
(12:25):
experience, how that changedyour view and why did you choose
an internship versus just maybegoing out there with social
media.
Did you not have enoughexperience in that, or did you
not think that was a real careerpath?
What was the decision pointthere?
Maci (12:39):
I went with my music
industry internships mostly
because I was also in amarketing club at the time for
college and it was pretty muchdrilled in us to network with
people.
I did go to a smaller Cal Stateand were competing with people
who went to university or likeUSC and I feel like we need to
(13:01):
prove ourselves a little bitmore because we don't have the
name brand of a school and Ifelt that I needed to network
with a lot of people in thoseindustries, get to know them and
have them know myself as wellso that I can pursue a career in
that industry.
Daniel Koo (13:17):
So when you say
music entertainment, were you
actually doing music relatedthings or was it kind of in the
music industry but art relatedor design related?
Maci (13:26):
It was just in the music
industry but it was more
marketing related.
So we would put together likeone sheets for artists with some
other stats.
Or one of my internships waswithin the fan engagement aspect
, so we would work with a lot ofmusic influencers, like for one
of them.
We were targeting influencerswho shared a lot of vinyls and
(13:47):
we had a campaign with thisparticular artist.
We wanted to send theseinfluencers that artist's vinyl
so then they can promote, and itwas a lot of that business
aspect rather than working withmusic.
Daniel Koo (13:58):
So you've also
worked with influencers at that
time.
How did your internship affectyour career path from that point
?
Maci (14:05):
Because that internship
experience exposed me to working
with a lot of influencers andworking with social media from a
large business perspective.
I was able to get a few skillsfrom those positions and apply
it to my small business, withknowing how much social media
content to output, howinfluencers should be treated in
(14:27):
a way when working withbusinesses for these brand deals
.
Daniel Koo (14:31):
When you were
working there, was it more of
strategizing or was it a lot ofon the ground hard skills?
Were you developing a lot ofediting skills or was it talking
with people and timing thingsout and you know, scheduling
things out and those things?
Maci (14:45):
Oh yeah, I think it's a
little bit of both.
However, my internship didinvolve a lot of soft and hard
skills, but I would say, becauseI was an intern, it was mostly
the hard skills, with me beingthe liaison between my manager
and the influencers that we wereworking with, Making sure that
these influencers posted whenthey wanted, making sure these
influencers posted when weneeded them to post, getting
(15:08):
their analytics, so then we canput it into a deck to send to
the higher-ups for my manager'spresentations.
And really seeing how thatplayed out helped me a lot with
my business because I betterunderstood what these businesses
wanted for myself.
And I think a lot of the otherinfluencers within my field in
(15:29):
the artist alley scene aren'tsuper familiar with that aspect
because they're usually involvedwith the art aspect of it, and
my experience and backgroundwith business helped support
myself in being an influencer inthat way.
Daniel Koo (15:43):
Yeah, I think that
makes sense.
I talked to a couple of peoplewho have like hundreds of
thousands of followers onInstagram and they're usually
marketing and branding people.
You know, they're really goodat framing the story and
controlling the audience andlike they know exactly what the
audience wants to hear.
They know how to prep anaudience for a launch and it's
very strategic, but they make itseem so casual.
(16:03):
I mean, I think that's probablywhere you got your skills as
well, for your YouTube videosand your marketing throughout
social media.
The next segment is going to bechallenges and overcoming them.
The first question is have youever faced imposter syndrome and
how are you dealing with it?
Have you gotten over it?
What's your process?
Maci (16:21):
I would say in the
beginning, mostly when I was
doing anime conventions was whenI first started to experience
imposter syndrome, because atthe time this was early 2022.
I had a very small table displayand I was basically tabled next
to someone who was a little bitmore established.
I would say he was in theindustry for a few years now and
(16:43):
I remember during thatconvention, while I did get a
few sales here and there andluckily I did profit from that
con his booth was always fulland there were always people
talking to him and I feel likeeveryone knew him at the time,
like all of the artists there,the vendors all knew him, and I
remember that that was theinstance when I realized I
wanted to do this full time,potentially because I saw how
(17:06):
well connected he was and wellestablished he was and I
realized, oh, this is what Iwant to do, but it seems very
intimidating.
Luckily, I'm at a point nowwhere I don't feel that way, but
it definitely took a lot ofyears to gain that confidence
and get to that point.
Daniel Koo (17:22):
Yeah, I think when
we see people ahead of our
career, we feel a lot ofimposter syndrome.
Were there any people onlinethat discouraged you for doing
what you were doing?
Because I know there's a lot ofhaters online that would
randomly comment something meanor things like that.
Did you experience that at all?
Maci (17:38):
Fortunately not Amongst
the other artists.
I don't know of anyone whopublicly felt that way about
myself.
I did get some hate.
I feel like that's prettynatural when it comes to
creating public online content.
I just developed a skill ofignoring or mentally forgetting
that comment.
I can't even recall a lot ofthe hate comments that I get.
Daniel Koo (18:01):
I mean that's good,
that's good, that's definitely
good.
I also did hear that havingsome online haters is actually a
good sign.
You know it means you've madeit, so you know we'll take it so
throughout your career.
It's something that you'venever faced before building a
small business.
What were some of thesignificant challenges that you
faced?
Maci (18:19):
I would say one of the
significant challenges that
comes to mind on this careerpath was would I be able to
match my corporate income?
Because at the time I startedmy business in 2020, and I was
still in my corporate job upuntil late 2022.
And at the time I was doingfairly okay with Molkana, but it
(18:42):
wasn't like full-time money.
I was lucky in that I did havea kickstart in late 2021, early
22 that did super well and thatactually got me to be able to
pay myself.
But it was a bit of a struggletrying to find a way to make
enough money at the time andlearning what other ways I can
diversify my income, because Ican't just rely on online
(19:05):
business, and in that way Irealized, okay, I need to figure
out those ways.
One of them is by doingconventions, and that definitely
helped.
However, right now, it'sincredibly difficult to get into
these cons now with howcompetitive it's been, because
Artist Alley has become a lotmore popular to vend at.
Daniel Koo (19:24):
So there are
obviously a period of time when
you're doing both jobs right.
So you're doing the full-timejob and you're developing
Molkana.
What gave you the final push toquit your full-time job and
pursue this content creator andsmall business career?
Maci (19:39):
I would say that the final
push for me from going my
full-time corporate job toMolkana full-time.
There were two things thathappened.
So one, my contract was alreadyending with my full-time job
and it was about to end inAugust of 2022.
And fortunately, at the sametime, Molkana was doing super
well online and at conventions,because I believe I went viral
(20:01):
for one of my Instagram reels inlike July of 2022, where I
gained like 20,000 followerswithin like a couple weeks and
so a lot of online sales werehappening at that period of time
.
And at the same time, atconventions, I had been getting
into some of the majorconventions like Anime Expo,
Fianame and a lot of bigger anda lot of the SoCal conventions
(20:24):
that were doing pretty well forme and at that time that did
give me some consistent incomemonthly and all of those things
were basically happening as itgot closer to my contract ending
.
And even though I did go on afew job interviews to have that
transition from that previouscorporate job to potentially
another nine to five corporatejob, when I went to those job
(20:45):
interviews I realized even in myanswers there wasn't that same
spark that I had when I wasinterviewing for these music
industry roles, compared to whenI did Molokena and did those
conventions that were on theweekends, even though I was
working my media job.
I took PTO to do theseconventions and it just did not
feel the same way, and so Irealized I should take the risk,
(21:07):
while I don't have a lot ofmajor responsibilities, and
pursue Molkina full-time.
Daniel Koo (21:12):
I see.
So there was a lot of passionand it was a natural kind of
transition period for your joband you've kind of come to
realize that you know you'drather do this other business
and it really kind of feels yourpassion and it kind of seems
sustainable.
Yes, is that a correct summary?
Maci (21:27):
Yeah, I would say that.
Daniel Koo (21:34):
Do you feel like
there are specific skills or
talents that are crucial to yoursuccess in this field and by
success I don't mean like aninsane amount of revenue or
anything like that, but, youknow, having a good cycle of you
know you have customers, youhave new ideas that you can
always try out, do you?
Maci (21:48):
think there are specific
skills or talents that would be
crucial.
I would say that for thisbusiness, some of the skills
that would be particularlyhelpful is being good at social
media.
It's not imperative that youhave a really strong social
media following, especially ifconventions are your full-time?
However, as mentioned, gettinginto Artist Alley is incredibly
competitive and difficult atthis point in time because there
(22:09):
are a lot of Artist Alleyinfluencers and because they
share their revenue and expenses.
Naturally, people are going tobe interested in potentially
doing the same thing, and soright now, it is pretty much a
bloodbath to get into artistalley and it's not helpful to
rely on conventions as a stablesource of income.
So having a social mediafollowing helps to have more
(22:33):
consistent income because itbuilds on that community and
people can also find you throughsocial media, though it is a
little bit difficult nowcompared to 2020 TikTok.
Daniel Koo (22:43):
Could you share with
us what the process is like and
just how rough it is to getinto Artist Alley?
Maci (22:48):
Yes.
So to get into Artist Alleythere's typically three
different application processes.
So there's first come, firstserve, which is similar to
buying concert tickets.
There's lottery, which ispretty random, and then there's
a juried.
So a lot of conventions now aremoving away from first come,
first serve, because usuallytables sell out within seconds
(23:10):
and now a lot of cons are goingwith either lottery or jury.
Lottery is difficult becauseyou can get into one convention
but if the lotto gods are not inyour favor, you might not get
in the following year and that'sa lot of loss of income.
The third option is juried,which, even though there
shouldn't be any bias, there'salways going to be some kind of
(23:30):
subconscious bias and I'veexperienced with one convention.
I got in pretty consistentlylast year and the year prior,
but this year I did not get inand that was a big chunk of my
revenue, which is reallyunfortunate.
And I feel like for a lot ofpeople who are trying to get
into Artist Alley now, I'venoticed that a lot of them are
(23:51):
doing very poorly when it comesto juried work because one they
probably don't have an actualtable display, because they've
never been to a convention and Ifeel like a lot of juries are
going to lean towards artistswho might have that experience
and have a really nice developedtable display versus someone
who is just starting out, whichin some cases is very unfair,
(24:12):
especially for someone who'strying to get into the artist
alley scene.
But even for us who aredeveloped in our career path,
it's been incredibly difficultto get in.
Daniel Koo (24:22):
So I want to get
into more of what the specific
process is like for the juriedconference.
What are the risks involved inapplying?
Is there a deposit or is itjust the risk of not being able
to go?
Maci (24:34):
For a juried convention.
Luckily, there's actually not alot of risk involved.
It's not like college apps,fortunately, where you don't
have to pay anything that I knowof.
I think there are a couple conswho do require payment for
applications, but it's very,very few.
But when it comes to applyingfor a juried convention, usually
they have a very small timewindow for you to apply.
(24:55):
It ranges from filling out agoogle form to actually filling
out like a proper website formand usually you'll hear back
within a few months.
However, the issue with that isyou might find out that you got
into a convention which is farfrom you.
Let's say I'm in LA and theconvention's in New York.
If I get in, they tell me maybea couple months prior to the
(25:18):
event.
But then obviously for me toget there I need to book hotel,
plane tickets and so on and soforth and even more merchandise
so that I have enough to sell atthe event.
But it's hard for me to planwhen I'm relying on a convention
to tell me if I got in or not,and I wouldn't know until very
close to the event.
Daniel Koo (25:36):
I see it's usually
very last minute.
It seems like close to theevent.
I see it's usually very lastminute, seems like yes, and we
all know that you have to bookplane tickets like months in
advance to get the cheapestprice.
That must be quite the risk foryou actually.
Do you ever book flights andhotels ahead of time and try to
cancel later, or how do youmanage that?
Maci (25:54):
I do.
Actually I like to book myhotel as soon as I apply because
, especially on bookingcom, mostof them are free cancellation
and I usually prioritize freecancellation, just for peace of
mind.
For plane tickets, I don't mindbooking later on.
I know a lot of the ArtistAlley people like to go with
Southwest because of the twofree check baggage per passenger
(26:16):
.
I usually just wait until itgets closer to the event.
It's not really a big deal forme passenger.
Daniel Koo (26:21):
I usually just wait
until it gets closer to the
event.
It's not really a big deal forme.
Was there any conference whereyou basically had to book really
late and it was reallyexpensive or you got into some
trouble because of that.
Maci (26:30):
Fortunately, no, I usually
book as soon asI receive the
acceptance.
It's funny because there isthis Discord called the Artist
Alley Network Discord.
A lot of Artist Alley people Ithink there's like 7,000 people
on that Discord Artist AlleyNetwork Discord A lot of Artist
Alley people I think there'slike 7,000 people on that
Discord.
And apparently, for context,anime Expo is less than a week
from now and this one person, Ithink they're in Northeast US.
They haven't even booked theirplane tickets yet.
(26:51):
I think they forgot.
So, good luck for them, becauseAX is 4th of July weekend.
Daniel Koo (26:56):
That's going to be
very difficult for that person.
I was just looking at planetickets for Thanksgiving and it
was just atrocious.
Maci (27:04):
Oh no, how much are
tickets?
Daniel Koo (27:06):
I think if I want to
go when I actually have my
vacation days, it would go upfrom $500 to $700.
Oh my gosh.
But I try to always go eitherway before and try to stay for
longer, just so I can kind ofcurb that price.
But yeah, it's pretty atrociousstill, even months out, so I
can only imagine trying to keepthe cost low.
(27:27):
That must be difficult.
So for these skills that youneed to have success in your
field.
Do you believe that theseskills were innate or did you
develop them over time?
Maci (27:35):
I would say it's a bit of
both, because even when I look
back on my childhood I feel likesome of the marketing skills
have been innate, because Iremember running for
commissioner of publicity inseventh grade and one of the
more traditional ways ofmarketing that I was running for
that position I made like asandwich board for one of my
(27:57):
friends to wear.
I said like vote Maci forcommissioner of publicity and I
had them walking around duringrecess and lunch.
Daniel Koo (28:04):
Wow, that's amazing.
Maci (28:05):
And I don't recall anyone
doing that as well, besides
putting posters on walls.
Daniel Koo (28:09):
That's very bold for
a seventh grader to do.
Maci (28:12):
I mean I wasn't the one
walking around, I had my friends
walk around.
That's very bold for a seventhgrader to do.
Daniel Koo (28:14):
I mean I wasn't the
one walking around.
I had my friends walk around.
Maci (28:15):
That's true, that's true,
and I feel like I had that knack
of.
I mean maybe it's thinkingoutside of the box, but oh,
definitely.
Just thinking a little bit moreunconventionally helped a lot,
even with Anime Expo right now.
I wanted to promote my businesswith the free promotional tote
bags and they're pretty big.
I think it's like a 14 by 5 by14 or so like tote bags.
(28:39):
It's pretty big and I wanted tomake sure that my logo was like
pretty big.
So then people who do buysomething that's like 50 plus
they receive that tote bag andif they're walking around Anime
Expo with it, people who mightbe familiar with that logo might
be.
Daniel Koo (28:53):
Will be reminded.
Maci (28:54):
Exactly, it's like oh,
Molkana's here.
I completely forgot they'reprobably in Art of Sally.
Daniel Koo (28:59):
You know, that
reminds me of how I built this
podcast, joe Malone, when theywere first launching two weeks
before the first store wasopened in New York.
What they did was theybasically hired a lot of actors
to hold the Joe Malone shoppingbag and just walk the streets of
New York and that basicallycreated so much suspense, so
(29:19):
much, I guess, marketingpressure, that even on their
first launch, the first store,there was a super long line and
it was just because they'rereminded as you're going past,
and actually that reminds me ofthat.
That's so funny.
Maci (29:30):
I would also say that,
especially like that marketing
social media skill is definitelylearned, because a lot of these
things I had to learn throughmy internship experience,
through college and even goingon YouTube.
I had to learn a lot of thosesocial media skills because,
again, like the social mediaalgorithm is always changing and
a lot of those things Iprobably would not have learned
(29:51):
if it wasn't for these outsidesources.
Daniel Koo (29:53):
Do you have a mentor
that you rely on to learn these
things, or do you mostly learnthem by yourself?
Maci (29:59):
I would say learn them
mostly by myself, but there are
a few YouTube channels that Ilike to check up on for these
different strategies.
One of them is Think Media,which is mostly for YouTube
strategies.
Vanessa Lau is really good forYouTube and Instagram.
I believe her name is KatieSteckley and she's really good
with small influencer strategiesfor different social media
(30:23):
platforms.
Daniel Koo (30:24):
What advice would
you give to someone looking to
develop these skills?
Maci (30:27):
I would say, if you're new
to all of this and you don't
know where to start and you wantto develop these skills, I
would highly suggest lookinginto free resources like YouTube
.
There's so much content on howto expand, like your YouTube,
social media strategies and evenjust working on your own.
You don't have to officiallylaunch.
(30:48):
Let's say, if it's for abusiness, you don't have to
officially launch that businessright away.
If you don't feel comfortable,it helps just playing around
with it, maybe not on yourpersonal account, but just some
random account dedicated tosomething else.
Figure out what works for youthere and then you can apply
that to your business.
Daniel Koo (31:04):
So this next
question is going to be to whom
would you not recommend thiscareer and to whom would you
recommend this career?
But I think for you there'smany different strains of career
, kind of mixed into one.
So if you could answer based onmaybe combining all of them you
know, just being a soloentrepreneur doing your own
small business, your own socialmedia channels and doing all
(31:26):
your marketing to whom would younot recommend this career?
Maci (31:30):
I would not recommend this
career if you don't have
discipline or at leastself-discipline, because
everything is reliant onyourself and, compared to a nine
to five job, if you take timeoff, someone else not going to
work, or it's not going tohappen if you don't work on it
and if you don't have thediscipline to actually get that
(31:51):
done, it's never going to happen.
Daniel Koo (32:00):
Would you say you've
had to use a lot of discipline
to push your career along, orwould you say it's more passion
that kind of pushed you along?
Maci (32:07):
I would say it's a bit of
both, because for me passion can
only go so far.
It's like I don't believethere's fully a dream job.
Or when people say, if you lovewhat you do, you never work a
day in your life.
I don't necessarily thinkthat's fully true, because
there's a lot of aspects in mybusiness that I also don't like.
It's usually like bookkeepingor just maintaining expenses.
(32:30):
I don't like that, but someonehas to do it, so I have to do it
.
Of course, passion does help alot, because if you're not
passionate about what you do,it's very hard to find that
motivation, because money canonly get you so much.
Daniel Koo (32:41):
To whom would you
recommend this career?
Maci (32:43):
I would say, if you really
love it enough that you don't
mind working 24 seven on it,this career is probably good for
you.
It's hard to say because thatmight also just be because of
myself and the people that Isurround myself.
We all have that similarmindset that we're pretty much
working almost 24-7.
It's not a very healthy mindsetbut at least in the beginning,
(33:07):
when you are trying to grow yourbusiness, it will get to that
point where you're working onyour business.
Daniel Koo (33:13):
It's like a
lifestyle.
Maci (33:19):
Exactly, and I feel like
if you don't have I suppose that
passion could be applied inthis case If you don't have that
passion to do that whenever youhave free time, it's hard to be
successful.
I wouldn't say it's impossible,but it's hard to be successful
in a steady, quick way.
Daniel Koo (33:31):
I actually have a
quote that I prepared.
It's from Amelia Earhart themost difficult thing is the
decision to act.
The rest is merely tenacity.
I didn't know it was going tofit so well with your answer
here on discipline, but I thinkthat's really true.
You know, when we want to dosomething, we really have to put
in the time and the effort, andI hope that's an inspiration
(33:53):
for our listeners today.
I want to talk more about whatis your current business look
like and where is it heading?
Maci (34:00):
So right now, looking at
my business, a lot of the
products are geared towards, Iwould say, like 50 to 60%, anime
fan art and then the remainingpercentage is a lot of original
characters.
And right now I'm at a pointwhere I really want to push my
original characters because,again, as anime conventions
become a lot more competitive,there are a lot of issues, and
(34:23):
there's a lot of issues with fanart and anime cons and like IP.
But I don't want to be in aposition where my very popular
anime fan art pin has been takendown by Etsy or Shopify and I
can't sell it anymore becausethat has happened to me with one
of my pins and I won't havethat issue as much with original
(34:45):
characters.
And there are also a lot ofconventions that are geared
towards original characters thatI'm not able to apply to
because of my fan art and Idon't want to close that
opportunity on myself.
So right now I am mostlyfocusing on just slowly phasing
out my anime work and thenintroduce more original
character work.
Daniel Koo (35:05):
I guess that makes
sense.
It's kind of like how Netflixis slowly making their own
originals, and I think that'sactually a really great move for
you going forwards and relyingless on other characters or
companies.
It's actually a lot moreself-contained.
Is that something that you'velearned from others, or is that
something that you kind of cameout by yourself or you just felt
like that was the next step?
Maci (35:27):
I feel like that's a lot
of artists' natural step when it
comes to being an artist dolly,especially when a lot of them
start out with fan art and theneventually move into original
characters.
Usually it's more difficult tostart with original characters
because a lot of people don'tknow that character or a lot of
people are not familiar with youas a brand and having fan art
(35:47):
kind of helps them slowlyacclimate to your work.
And I feel like I'm at a pointnow where a lot of my original
designs, even like the Ida bags,have sold really well despite
it not being affiliated with aparticular anime or other IP.
And I'm also running into thepoint where especially like for
(36:08):
example for Anime Expo, if youhave fan art you can't sell in
Exhibitor Hall.
Exhibitor Hall has like minimum10 by 10 booths but you can
have bigger booth sizes.
So in my case I would have tosell in Artist Alley.
Artist Alley only allows like asix by two foot table.
I have so much product thatit's very difficult for me to
fit everything within a six bytwo table.
(36:30):
But for me to have a largerspace I can only sell original
art.
But I don't feel comfortablejust completely taking out anime
because and I've talked aboutthis with other friends I still
have an affinity for anime andmaking my designs as I see fit,
like associated with, like onepiece and whatnot.
But in order for me to havebigger spaces and be allowed in
those bigger spaces, I wouldhave to have a lot of original
(36:51):
work.
And I want for me to havebigger spaces and be allowed in
those bigger spaces, I wouldhave to have a lot of original
work.
And I want to get to that pointmaybe next year or in two years
.
Hopefully I can just haveoriginal work, but slowly
working on it.
Daniel Koo (37:05):
Was it difficult to
create your own designs and
start splitting your time,because I'm guessing original
art would take a lot more time.
How did you balance thattransition?
Maci (37:15):
Surprisingly, it felt like
a pretty natural transition
from working with anime andoriginal characters, because
after my One Piece fan art Ithink this was one or two years
ago I couldn't think of anyother anime to draw from, with
new enamel pins and whatnot.
And I feel like One Piece andJujutsu Kaisen was the last of
(37:37):
my fan art and now I would muchrather pour my time and energy
into original characters.
It was difficult trying tofigure out what type of
characters to design, becausethere's only so much you can do
with a cat like a cute cat, acute bunny In my case it's like
a cute cat, bunny and bear,which is pretty basic at the
same time.
Daniel Koo (37:57):
Do you have names
for them?
Maci (37:58):
Yes, the cat is Miruku
because it's like milk, the bear
is Mitsu because Hachimitsumeans honey in Japanese, and
then the bunny is Momo becauseit's pink and it's like peach.
So I wanted them all to be M's,because Molkena it's like M.
Daniel Koo (38:13):
Gotcha, that's your
brand.
Yeah, very good.
Maci (38:15):
And for me to make them
slightly different from the
typical cat bunny bear.
Their little blush is likescribbled on, so it's a little
bit more different than like thetypical blush which is usually
like a big circle or whatnot.
And same thing with how I'mtrying to push them even for
like anime expo, like thefreebies are all like the three
characters, so like the fan isjust the cat bunny bear and
(38:36):
hopefully people can start toassociate those characters with
my business and this is all kindof done through your iPad and
just drawing yes, yeah and Iguess you've already done that a
ton in high school, so it'sbeen easy for you as well.
Daniel Koo (38:49):
It's not a new
platform, or?
Maci (38:50):
anything.
I never had a proper drawingiPad until four years ago,
because in high school, eventhough, like, social media was a
digital aspect of it, a lot ofit was traditional.
So I would draw with a penciland then I would outline
everything with Sharpie oh, wow,yeah.
And then everything was justscanned, because I don't think I
(39:11):
could afford an iPad at thetime, nor did my parents want to
buy me an iPad.
So I would like scan everythingand that's how I would sell my
prints and my drawings.
Daniel Koo (39:19):
Wow.
So actually that was a muchbigger effort than I originally
thought, because you know youwould do it on paper and then
get it online.
Maci (39:26):
This is also like maybe
class favoritism, but I would
draw a lot of those works likeduring class and like I think
the teachers noticed but becauseI wasn't that type of
disruptive kid or I was doingdecently in those classes, they
didn't say anything.
Daniel Koo (39:42):
I mean, that's a
blessing as well.
Maci (39:43):
I think Very efficient.
Daniel Koo (39:46):
So what's one piece
of advice you'd give to someone
carving out their own path,someone who wants to do what
you're doing right now?
What's something that you wouldsay to them?
Maci (39:55):
I would say one don't be
afraid to just start.
But not just start, start itslowly.
I've seen some people who justjump into something, are willing
to spend this much money andinvest this much money, but you
don't know if it's going to workout for you.
And being able to slowly getinto this career path is
(40:16):
probably the best bet, becauseyou also don't know.
One, will you actually enjoy itbesides, like what you see on
social media?
And two, you don't want towaste a lot of money trying to
pursue a path that probably canbe worked in a different way.
Daniel Koo (40:32):
So starting slow
would be your recommendation.
Maci (40:33):
Yes, yeah, like starting
slow would be very helpful.
And then, while you're startingslow, it helps you figure out
what works best for you, becausethe way I'm going about it
might be too much for you or itmight not work out for you, but
if you figure out what worksbest for you, you're not wasting
that much time and energy bygoing at it slowly.
Daniel Koo (40:53):
I think just the way
you can approach the business.
You have a lot of discipline.
Do you ever try to delegate alot of these things, like if you
don't want to do something,rather than trying to push
through with your discipline,have you considered delegating
it to a service or somethingelse?
Maci (41:09):
Yes, I have to delegate
some things.
Now I realize that I reallydon't like quality checking my
EDA bags because it's a lot ofwork.
Fortunately, I do have a couplefriends that I do pay that come
in like a couple times a weekand usually I just give them the
tasks that I don't like to do.
So that's quality checking bags, quality checking enamel pins,
counting up backing cards orputting those pins on backing
(41:32):
cards.
And it's a lot of effort on myend to let go of those things,
because in the beginning I feellike I can be a bit of a control
freak in wanting to have thatsort of control.
But then once I just gave thema little bit of a trial run,
like, okay, you should trygrading the EDA bags If no one
says anything, if no customeremails like, oh, what's wrong
(41:52):
with blah, blah, this eat a bag,it's fine.
And I realized like I saved somuch time by having them do
those things and it allows me toput in energy and time into
things that I can only do.
Daniel Koo (42:03):
Yeah, that seems
like what a lot of creators try
to do, you know, for all themanual labor they try to
delegate so that they can dosomething that they can only do,
and that usually has thebiggest impact for your business
, I'm assuming.
So, to kind of summarize whatwe talked about, I think the
biggest thing I've learned fromyou is the discipline portion of
it, and especially for thosewho you don't recommend this
career to, if you don't have alot of discipline and if you
(42:25):
can't start small with thesethings, I think that's something
to be wary of.
But I do feel like we laid outa lot of items here today to
show what it takes to become one, and if you feel like you have
those things, I think you shouldgo for it, and I'm assuming
it's a different feeling whenyou have something of your own
100%.
And being able to say you know,this is my brand, this is
something that I've made, sothank you so much for coming on
(42:48):
the podcast.
I really appreciate your timeand your stories and I hope you
know this episode will inspire alot of people to pursue this
path, being wary of what theyneed to do and what they need to
have in order to pursue it.
Thank you so much.
Maci (43:02):
Yeah, thank you for having
me.
I was nervous in the beginning,but it was great.
Daniel Koo (43:06):
Yeah, I think your
answers were super great yeah.