November 7, 2024 • 53 mins
My White Mulberry Path
Join us as we explore Rosa Easton's fascinating transition from a legal career to becoming an author. Rosa's rich family history, spanning from Korea to Los Angeles, ignited her passion for storytelling, culminating in her soon-to-be-published book, "White Mulberry." She shares her inspiring journey and the unexpected turns that led her to embrace her true calling, providing invaluable insights for anyone considering a new path in life.
Rosa's journey is not just about her personal transformation; it's also a narrative of resilience and community. With a background in government and international affairs, her academic and professional experiences have profoundly shaped her storytelling. As she navigates the solitary demands of writing, balancing her extroverted nature with the creation of her literary world, Rosa emphasizes the importance of community support and the unexpected connections that can guide our paths. Her insights into preparing for the book launch and selecting the perfect audiobook narrator offer a behind-the-scenes look at the author's life.
Our conversation with Rosa also delves into intergenerational themes and the profound influence of personal history on her writing. Her family's immigrant story, marked by courage and sacrifice, resonates through her novel and her role as a library trustee advocating for free access to information. As she looks ahead to future writing projects, Rosa reflects on the balance between career and parenthood, the rewards of discipline, and the power of patience and curiosity in personal and professional growth. Whether you're an aspiring author or simply seeking inspiration, Rosa's story is a captivating reminder of the transformative power of embracing new beginnings.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rosa Easton (00:00):
It was just this feeling and I felt like it had
something to do with writing andreading.
And see, even then, in my 30s,I didn't know what it was.
But I just started collectingstories and I thought I'm a
writer.
I write briefs, I write memos.
I could do this.
I used to write for a living.
I started just taking a fewwriting classes just because I
(00:23):
had to keep my mind stimulated.
That's just the way I am.
Daniel Koo (00:27):
Welcome back to my Perfect Path, a show about
chasing dreams and buildingcareers.
I'm your host, daniel Koo, andtoday we're joined by Rosa
Easton, a family friend andauthor of soon-to-be-published
White Mulberry.
Rosa's journey to becoming anauthor is as inspiring as it is
unexpected.
After studying government atSmith College, earning a
master's in international andpublic affairs at Columbia and
(00:50):
later attending law school atBoston College, she practiced
law for six years beforeeventually devoting her time to
her children and later pursuingher passion for storytelling.
Today, rosa is a writer,attorney, elected trustee of the
Palos Verdes Library Districtand mother of two adult children
.
In this episode, rosa shareswhat inspired her to write White
(01:12):
Mulberry, how she balancedfamily with career as an
attorney and as an author, andhow her family's rich history,
spanning from Korea to LosAngeles, shaped her work.
Whether you're interested instorytelling, starting something
new or discovering the roots ofpersonal resilience, rosa's
journey will inspire you.
Hope you enjoy the episode.
Rosa, welcome to my PerfectPath.
(01:36):
I'm thrilled to have you here.
Rosa Easton (01:38):
Thank you, Daniel, for having me.
I'm thrilled to be here.
Daniel Koo (01:41):
Could you tell us a little bit about your current
state with your book and yourcurrent role as you would define
it?
Rosa Easton (01:47):
Yes, actually, just before coming here today, I met
with my conversation partnerfor my launch event.
Usually, what happens when yourbook comes out shortly
thereafter, you have a launchparty or a launch event where
people gather to celebrate yourbook coming out, which means
it's in print and available foreveryone to read.
(02:11):
So I met with a woman who isgoing to be my conversation
partner at that launch event.
Daniel Koo (02:16):
What is a conversation partner?
Rosa Easton (02:18):
So a conversation partner is just like this it's
somebody who sits with you andasks you questions about your
book.
So it's in production right now, so it's waiting to be printed.
I imagine like a conveyor beltof books waiting to be.
Daniel Koo (02:34):
In some sort of factory.
Rosa Easton (02:35):
Some sort of factory and I'm in line, my book
is in line and December 1stit's going to be available to
the general public and so rightnow my audio narrator is
probably busy doing the audiobook.
And that was an interestingprocess because the production
manager emailed me and said hehad three people who auditioned
(02:59):
for my book and I had theopportunity to listen to each
one and I took it very seriouslybecause I really wanted the
spirit of the character to bereflected in the voice and I did
research on each narrator andwhat other books they've read,
and the one that I chose I thinkis going to be great.
She's emotional, dramatic whenshe needs to be, and I really
(03:23):
enjoyed her voice emotionaldramatic when she needs to be,
and I really enjoyed her voice.
Daniel Koo (03:26):
What's the best parts and worst parts about
being an author?
I imagine at this point you'rein the fun stage.
I imagine because the work isdone, but I would love to hear
more.
Rosa Easton (03:42):
Yeah, it's definitely a different stage and
for some people, it could bereally fun, but I think most
authors are solitary by natureor they have to be in order to
write a book, and this partrequires more connecting with
people and arranging things and,for example, organizing who's
going to be at my launch event.
Who am I going to invite, whatam I going to say about my book?
(04:03):
And I do have a publicity teamhelping me, so they're very
outward facing, soliciting mediacontacts, interviews, Q&As,
podcasts and helping me refinemy social media presence as well
.
Looking at my website, how I domy Instagram and Facebook posts
(04:24):
it's a lot of minutiae in there, so I'm very busy with all
those aspects and obviouslythere's somebody who's helping
me with events not only in LA,but in Chicago, New York and
Boston.
Daniel Koo (04:36):
Wow, that sounds super exciting.
I'm an extrovert, so I lovemeeting people going to events,
holding events.
I think I would be very excited, but are you more of an
introvert?
Rosa Easton (04:46):
I think some of my friends, and my husband too,
would definitely call me anextrovert, but I do get
energized by being around peopleand connecting and going to
events.
But I also need some downtimeand I think that's where writing
comes in, because it isdefinitely something you do
alone, yeah, but important tohave a community as well of
(05:10):
writers who understand what thatlife is like.
Daniel Koo (05:13):
Yeah, I imagine it's really difficult to write a
book when there's constantdistractions, so that makes
sense.
Rosa Easton (05:18):
Yes, it took me 10 years to actually write it and
20 years researching it andinterviewing my grandmother and
my father and relatives, andreally 40 years, I think, having
the first inkling of an ideathat this might be an
interesting story to tellsomeday, and that was when I did
(05:39):
my junior year abroad incollege in Japan, in Kyoto.
Daniel Koo (05:43):
Yeah, I'm really excited to read it when it comes
out in December.
It's going to be on Amazon, isthat right?
Rosa Easton (05:50):
Yes, amazon Publishing is my publisher.
Lake Union is the imprint thatfocuses on historical fiction,
women's fiction, book clubfiction, commercial fiction.
There's a lot of genres andmany genres in the publishing
industry that I'm realizing andsomehow I guess I wrote a
(06:11):
women's fiction book because ina historical setting, women's
fiction features a strong femaleprotagonist and that's what I
did featured a strong femaleprotagonist.
Daniel Koo (06:22):
So, from a high level, what were some of your
roles in the past?
Rosa Easton (06:26):
Yeah, I was a student for many years.
I went to high school,undergrad, graduate school, law
school and I didn't really havemy first job until I was in my
late 20s and I worked as alawyer for only six years.
So I went to law school forthree years, then worked for six
years and there wasn't a greatreturn on investment there, I
(06:47):
would say.
But we started a family, myhusband and I, and when our
second child was born it wasvery difficult at the time.
Things have changed.
Finding childcare was difficult.
You didn't work from home oryou didn't have a hybrid
possibility, so you were puttingon your suit and going to the
office five days a week and itwas too much of a strain on our
(07:10):
family both of us to be workingfull time.
My husband's also a lawyer,yeah.
So our family structure changedwhen we had children and I
think I see that a lot infamilies.
Fortunately, we were able to befinancially okay with my
husband's one income.
But I remember we were talkingand he said that was the
(07:32):
scariest moment of his life,because now he was solely
responsible for the family.
Daniel Koo (07:36):
For the entire family.
Rosa Easton (07:37):
For the entire family.
It was a significant moment inmy life because I felt I was
giving up my career, what I hadworked so hard for, not knowing
what the future was going tobring.
Daniel Koo (07:51):
And writing.
The book started while you werestill doing childcare and that
kind of came to fruition manyyears later right.
Rosa Easton (08:00):
It's such a full-time job that mostly I was
just reading in my spare timeand I wasn't consciously writing
, but when we had familygatherings or I'd hear stories
and I'd take notes and just putit away.
But was always thinking aboutit in the back of my mind that
someday I'm going to dosomething with this, because
(08:21):
it's really important to recallour family stories because
otherwise they'd be lost.
Daniel Koo (08:26):
I want to talk a little bit about where you grew
up and what kind of circumstanceyour family was in.
Rosa Easton (08:31):
Yeah, I was born in Seoul, south Korea, and I moved
to Los Angeles.
My family moved to Los Angeleswhen I was seven that was 1971.
And I have two younger brothers.
They're younger than I am twoyears younger and then three
years younger, so we're prettyclose in age and my family moved
to Hawthorne, california here,and we went to the elementary
(08:55):
schools not knowing a word ofEnglish, I think from an early
age.
I found comfort and belongingin books.
Daniel Koo (09:05):
Were these English books.
Rosa Easton (09:07):
These are English books.
Yeah, maybe I had some Koreanlanguage I was in first grade
and so my Korean development andthe Korean language stopped
abruptly in first grade.
I transitioned pretty quicklyand we grew up with my parents
both working full-time jobs.
Daniel Koo (09:26):
My father actually has an MBA from Yonsei
University which is one of thetop three universities in Korea.
Rosa Easton (09:34):
But when he came to the United States he was a
janitor and when my grandmotherheard that he was cleaning
bathrooms, I think she felt thatthis is my mother's mom.
She, and then my mother, alsoasked her if she wouldn't mind
coming and helping, because itwas very difficult for them.
(09:54):
So she ended up coming and Iwould say that my maternal
grandmother was my surrogate mom.
Growing up, my mother worked.
She worked at a Xerox assemblyplant.
She worked at a graveyard shift.
She took a side job of sewing.
She had a Singer sewing machineat the house and I remember her
bringing pattern home and beingon the sewing machine for a
(10:18):
large part of that and therevving of the foot pedal going
on all night and sometimes I'dpeek around and she'd have like
thread all over her hair andsometimes we'd be asked to do
small tasks, like usually yousew a pattern inside out and
then you flip it out, and so forsocks and for pointy things, I
(10:41):
used to take a little needle andmake it pointy again, turning
it inside out.
Boy, I'm remembering a lot ofthings.
I used to take a little needleand make it pointy again,
turning it inside out.
Boy, I'm remembering a lot ofthings.
Daniel Koo (10:49):
So during your childhood, how has books played
a role in your life?
Rosa Easton (10:53):
Yeah, when you come to the United States and you
start living in a new culture,you're curious or you need to
know what that world is allabout.
And there's the inside, thehome world.
And then there's the outsidethe home world, and we certainly
had that growing up, because athome we would speak Korean, eat
Korean food, obey our parents.
(11:14):
And then we go into the outsideworld and we're supposed to
know how American society worksand what the relationship
between parent and child is inan American family and why they
don't take their shoes off whenthey enter the house.
And so I learned that throughBeverly Cleary and Junie B Jones
(11:36):
.
I didn't know if that was evenaround.
Daniel Koo (11:37):
then I remember those.
Rosa Easton (11:39):
Actually, I think Junie B Jones came much later.
But Judy Blume, hardy Boys,nancy Drew yeah, lots of books.
I imagine I can see the rows inthe library where they were at
my local library.
Daniel Koo (11:53):
And I imagine you had to do a lot of translations
for your parents too.
Rosa Easton (11:56):
Yes, yes, they called that being parentified in
psychology, which I learned intherapy that when you assume the
role of a parent at a young age, that has an impact on you, you
are more responsible, you feelmore responsible than maybe a
child should be at that age.
Yes, translating documents orforms, school forms, calling
(12:22):
people when something was needed, turning the electricity on or
answering the phone whenstrangers would call, and things
like that.
Daniel Koo (12:31):
And I'm the oldest and birth order plays a role in
that you had to be like theleader of the family in the
English world.
Rosa Easton (12:38):
In the English world, in the outside world.
Daniel Koo (12:41):
So when you were growing up, did you ever imagine
that you might even be anauthor, or was that never in the
grand plan?
Rosa Easton (12:48):
Author was so nebulous because my parents and
a lot of the immigrantcommunities they talk about only
three careers lawyer, doctorand engineer businessman.
So I was raised only thinkingthose three careers existed,
although there was a period oftime when my mom saw Connie
Chung on TV Connie Chung was thefirst Asian American news
(13:12):
anchor in the 70s and shethought that I could be that too
, but I didn't really have aninterest in being in front of TV
.
Yet here we are with cameras,yet here we are with the cameras
TV Yet here we are with cameras.
Yet here we are with thecameras and yeah, and getting a
lot more attention to my bookand how I wrote my book, and so
it's an interesting circle.
The outwardness, though, Iexperienced a lot when I was a
(13:35):
lawyer, because I was alitigator and I had to go to
court and I did have to speak infront of people.
So it's not foreign to me, butit's in a completely different
context, where you're talkingabout yourself and you're not
advocating for your client'sbest interest.
Daniel Koo (13:49):
I'm sure the shyness goes away after once or twice
going in the courtroom.
Yes, at least I think that one.
You get to prepare a lot.
Rosa Easton (13:59):
Yes.
Daniel Koo (14:00):
And maybe have some partners and things like that.
Rosa Easton (14:03):
And it's not about you.
Daniel Koo (14:04):
So I guess I feel like it's a little bit different
.
Rosa Easton (14:06):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's what I'm trying to
learn through this process isthat, yes, the book came out of
me.
We call it like the birthing ofa book, and you carry your
child for 10 years and comes outinto the world and you don't
know what's going to happen.
It's like having a child.
(14:32):
Actually, you don't know theybecome their own thing.
And that's what my authorfriends say is that you've done
your job and it's going to havea life of its own.
And they say, when your bookgoes out into the world, you
don't really know how it's goingto turn out, but you've done
the best you could do and that'swhat you have to feel
satisfaction from.
Daniel Koo (14:46):
Yeah, I'm sure if you only look at the rewards or
if you expect it to be someamazing like bestseller, then
I'm sure it's going to be atough job to do in the future.
If your first book you spent 10years on it, it doesn't perform
as well as you thought it would, or something, and if you want
to give up right there and thenI'm sure it's not very
(15:06):
sustainable.
Rosa Easton (15:07):
Yeah, I don't regret doing it, but I didn't do
it for it to be a bestseller.
I did it so that I could sharea story that hasn't been told
with an audience that I think isout there, but waiting for
something like this to end up infront of them when they most
need it.
Daniel Koo (15:27):
I want to talk a little bit about going to
college, undergrad, and what youmajored and what you want to
study.
Rosa Easton (15:35):
Like I said, my family settled in Los Angeles
but I went to Smith College,which is in Massachusetts.
It was originally aseven-sister college in
Massachusetts.
It was originally aseven-sister college which is an
all-women's college, and myparents initially were very wary
of sending their first daughteracross the country alone, but
they were comforted by the factthat it was an all-women's
(15:58):
college.
But there were no bars or locks.
There were plenty of men oncampus and I had the opportunity
to go to other campuses.
So, yes, it was a women'scollege, but-.
Daniel Koo (16:11):
Was it a false sense of security?
Rosa Easton (16:12):
Yeah, I think they had a false sense of security
that I wouldn't meet men if Iwent to an all women's college
and I could just go and study.
But it was a wonderfulexperience and it really
broadened my world and I thinkhaving that education and this
is fleshed out in my book aswell the drive for education and
(16:33):
the importance of education andthe doors education opens is
really powerful and I thinkeducation is one of the most
important gifts that we could begiven and a young person could
be given to expand their mindsand opportunities.
Daniel Koo (16:50):
If you go back to maybe 20-year-old Rosa.
What were you passionate about?
What did you want to studythere?
What was your major?
Rosa Easton (16:58):
Yeah, thank you for bringing me back on topic.
No worries me back on topic.
No worries, no worries.
I majored in government becauseI thought I was going to law
school.
And I did end up going to lawschool, but it was not because I
loved political science andstudying about political systems
and philosophy, but it seemedlike it was the right thing to
(17:22):
do and I didn't dislike it.
It was a social science and Ithought that was practical.
I did take some English andcreative writing classes and a
couple of art history classes,but thinking back on it now, I
wish I had taken more of thosehumanities-type classes instead
of more practical social scienceor science, instead of more
(17:42):
practical social science orscience, because I think I
realize now that that was mychance to take some of those
classes offered to me on asilver platter really.
Daniel Koo (17:54):
Is majoring in government helpful to go to law
school?
Is that usually like a trackthat people take?
Rosa Easton (18:26):
no-transcript international affairs.
So I went to the School ofInternational and Public Affairs
at Columbia and delved a littlebit deeper into Japanese
language study and Asian studies, and I think learning more
Asian history at that timereally helped me with the
(18:48):
research for my book.
Daniel Koo (18:50):
When you were in undergrad, were you already
thinking about going to lawschool?
Rosa Easton (18:56):
I think I was toward the end, because I really
didn't know what else I wasgoing to do and I thought I
should be a paralegal so I couldjust try it out.
And then I thought it's not bad, but I don't know yet.
So I got my master's and Ithought, well, maybe I'll work
for the UN or maybe I'll be adiplomat.
But it just seemed undefined alittle bit, and law school
(19:19):
seemed more certain.
Daniel Koo (19:21):
Was money at the top of mind for you?
Were you thinking about, oh, Ineed to make a living, or did
you have some sort of ambitionto make money as well?
Rosa Easton (19:48):
I be financially stable.
I don't think I worried that Iwouldn't have a job, but I just
I guess I didn't know what myperfect job was, so I just
leaned into what I knew I wasgood at and that it seemed
interesting and something Ishould know more about.
I was exploring.
Daniel Koo (20:01):
For your master's program.
How did you find the programand what kind of drew you to it?
Rosa Easton (20:06):
You're bringing me way back into the past now.
When I was a paralegal I workedat American International Group,
which is a global insurancecompany.
I worked in their legaldepartment and my boss there was
an attorney and he had gone tomaster's program before he went
to law school.
So I thought that was a coolroute and actually he made me
(20:30):
aware of a scholarship programthat was offered to me so I
could go to graduate school andit didn't cost me anything
because I was awarded thisscholarship.
So the opportunity to get upperlevel education without having
to worry about the financialrepercussions was an amazing
(20:54):
gift.
Daniel Koo (20:55):
Was the process to get that scholarship difficult?
How would one get that?
Is that something you can share?
Rosa Easton (21:01):
Well, no, I mean and this is the other thing that
you learn over time is that itwas my connection with my boss
at my job who told me about thisopportunity, and he helped
facilitate the introduction tothe foundation that gave me
money for my graduate program.
And it was a private familyfoundation, so it's not well
(21:24):
known.
A private family foundation, soit's not well known.
So I think it's always good tomeet people and be yourself and
be your true self, and if peoplelike you and you do good work,
doors will open.
Daniel Koo (21:38):
I agree.
I also know that it's a goodpractice to be the squeaky wheel
.
You want to complain, you wantto talk about what you're trying
to achieve and people aroundyou will help you because they
know, yes, and if they don'tknow, they can't even help you.
Rosa Easton (21:53):
Yes, and I so value having had those two years to
study international affairs,delve more into my Japanese
language skills, and actuallythat's how I met my husband.
Daniel Koo (22:04):
Oh, we got to get into that.
So during your master's, whatwas top of mind?
Were you passionate aboutsomething or did you just want
to get it over with what wasgoing through your mind?
Rosa Easton (22:15):
No, I was passionate about the world.
I worked for this multinationalinsurance company and I wanted
to know more about America'splace in the world, and I took a
lot of classes in internationalpolicy.
Actually, my senior year incollege I did a seminar class in
Japanese foreign policy towardKorea, and so I just became more
(22:39):
interested in Asian studies andso I have a certificate from
the East Asian Institute as wellat Columbia.
So I have the master's and alsoa certificate from the East
Asian Institute, and as part ofthe requirements to obtain that
certificate I had to beproficient in a foreign language
.
So I decided to go toMiddlebury College, which has a
(23:01):
very rigorous, intensive foreignlanguage program, where you go
and you only speak that languagefor the entire summer.
And it's even more intense thanactually going to the country,
because when you go there's allthis English around you and
people want to speak Englishwith you.
But when you go to MiddleburyCollege Summer Language Program,
each language has its ownschool and its own dormitory,
(23:25):
and so you only interact withthe people in your dormitory, so
everyone speaks Japanese, forexample, 24 hours a day, in the
bathroom, in the kitchen, in thedining hall.
Russian school, chinese school,french, german, spanish.
I think those were the sixschools that were available at
the time, so I was at theJapanese language school and
(23:45):
that's where I met my husband.
Did you know any Japanesebefore going there?
Yes, I spent my junior yearabroad, when I was at Smith in
Kyoto on the Associated KyotoProgram, and so that's when my
Japanese improved a little bitand that's when I met my
Korean-Japanese relatives forthe first time.
So I met my husband in thesummer between my first and
(24:06):
second year of graduate schooland he was headed to law school
in Boston and I was still in NewYork.
So we had a long distancerelationship for a year, but
then I ended up going to Bostonfor law school.
Daniel Koo (24:22):
So were your first interactions with your husband
purely in Japanese?
Rosa Easton (24:25):
Yes, we have it's very interesting.
It's a very interestingbeginning because you realize so
much of communication is bodylanguage and we were pretty good
academic Japanese but when wehad to speak it we were pretty
goofy and I think we let ourguard down because we didn't
have to be who we thought wewere and we were just trying to
(24:50):
communicate in a foreignlanguage together and it really
made it simple, I think.
Daniel Koo (24:55):
It kind of feels like summer camp or something
like that.
Rosa Easton (24:59):
It was summer camp.
It was summer camp.
And when we went on our firstdate together.
We weren't really supposed todo this, but he had a car and we
drove to Montreal.
Montreal wasn't very far fromMiddlebury, which is in
Middlebury, vermont, and so wecrossed the border.
So we thought, okay, we're safe, now we could speak English
(25:21):
without violating any rule.
We had to sign a contract whenwe entered the school saying we
would only speak Japanese forthe entire time we were at the
school.
Daniel Koo (25:31):
Okay, so you left the country to do that.
So we left the country to speakEnglish.
Rosa Easton (25:35):
And I started speaking English and he looked
at me and said, oh my gosh,you're speaking Valley Girl
English.
And I said, yes, I'm from LosAngeles girl English.
And I said, yes, I'm from LosAngeles.
At the time in the 80s thevalley girl thing was big, so I
think he associated me with that, but also he's from Boston and
(25:56):
he's not Korean and so I thinkhe might not have expected that
he might not have expected thatvalley girl would come from a
Korean woman.
Daniel Koo (26:04):
Yeah, To come back a little bit to your master's
program, I feel like yourmotivations were very sincere
and genuine, which I feel likeis very different than how a lot
of us now approach master'sprograms.
Especially for engineering, wetend to look at the shortest
program that will give us themost technical skills.
Rosa Easton (26:25):
Right.
Daniel Koo (26:25):
With just the right amount of, I guess, authority
and name so that we can us themost technical skills, with just
the right amount of, I guess,authority and name so that we
can get the next job.
Did you go through a similarprocess?
Did you ever think about whatthat master's program will do
for you?
Rosa Easton (26:37):
I don't think I was very smart in those days
because I didn't think in thoseterms.
I think I have a much moreliberal studies attitude and
interest.
So my goal was to learn as muchas possible and then a job will
come from that.
That might be a very altruisticway of looking at things, but
(27:00):
if I just did what interested meand that I wanted to learn more
about that, something goodwould come of that.
I knew eventually I'd have toget a job.
And so then I did end up goingto law school after my master's
program because I thought timewas running out.
I thought I have to get a jobnow soon, enough of just
(27:23):
studying all the time.
So that's when I went to lawschool and, yeah, it was much
more technical and practicallyoriented and I didn't love that
actually, but I wasn't bad at it.
I don't think I had a passionfor it and I think in retrospect
that's why it wasn't asdifficult for me to give it up
when I had children.
Daniel Koo (27:44):
So the decision to go to law school finally, did
that feel like a big risk to youor did you feel like it was a
natural progression?
Rosa Easton (27:52):
I think it was a natural progression, something
that I had in my mind, butsomething that not that I put
off for as long as possible, butsomething that where I knew
that once I went to law school,I would never have the chance to
go back and get a master's andto learn from my professors, to
go to summer camp, to exploredifferent internship
(28:14):
opportunities.
I just wanted to prolong thateducation phase for as long as
possible.
Daniel Koo (28:20):
Right.
I think one of the great partsabout education earlier on is
you get to use it for the restof your life.
Rosa Easton (28:27):
Yes.
Daniel Koo (28:28):
Whereas if you maybe push it off and say maybe I'll
do it later, maybe when I havetime, you're never going to have
that time and once you startworking, it's just.
I feel like there's no end.
Rosa Easton (28:39):
That's right.
That's right, I'm working is,as my children said, it's like
we only get two weeks vacation.
It's yes, that's right.
No, three-month summers and Ireally liked those three-month
summers and the rhythm of beingin school and I thought about
getting a PhD.
Actually, that was one of myother interests.
Daniel Koo (29:00):
Stay in school for even longer.
Rosa Easton (29:01):
Stay in school forever.
But I think by that point Irealized that academic life had
its own limitations and I thinkI like interacting with people
more than I thought and Ithought being a lawyer would get
me out in the world a littlemore, in the real world.
Daniel Koo (29:18):
Did you feel like there were any significant
challenges during this time?
Maybe it's looking for a job,or maybe it's looking for a new
career path, or maybe it'srelationships.
Did you feel like there wasanything that was difficult?
Rosa Easton (29:31):
I think first year of law school is really hard
academically.
It's the 1L experiences.
Daniel Koo (29:37):
It's notorious.
Rosa Easton (29:38):
It's notorious.
And I did okay, but I wasn't atthe top of my class and I think
by then I just enjoyed learningfor the sake of learning too
much, that I didn't put all myeggs in one basket, like I had
to get all A's my first year, orelse I'm going to think less of
myself.
I think I had matured enough toknow that there were other
(30:01):
things in life, and so when Imet my husband, things were
already shifting.
My priorities were shifting alittle bit.
I think when you find a lifepartner, your priorities
naturally shift, and I thinkmeeting him when I met him
changed me and my career pathfor sure.
Daniel Koo (30:24):
Do you feel like you had a bigger capacity to handle
these things because you wentto law school a bit later To
handle relationships and lawschool and balancing everything?
Rosa Easton (30:34):
Yeah, I took four years between undergrad and law
school and I think it was justenough time to mature enough to
realize that life is not allabout getting the best grades.
And, of course, if you want theelite law firm experience,
that's what you're going to haveto do.
But I didn't know what I wantedto do.
(30:55):
I thought I wanted to work in alaw firm because that's what
everybody did, so I dideventually end up at a small
boutique law firm in Los Angelesrepresenting healthcare
companies and, ironically, mybook.
I have a lot of healthcareproviders in my family my
grandmother was a nurse, mybrother's a doctor, my aunt's a
(31:16):
nurse, my cousin is a surgeon,so medicine was an important
part, and so I think that was inthe back of my mind when I
accepted this position.
But it certainly wasn't likeone of the work 3,000 hours kind
of law firm and by that point Idon't think that's what I
wanted.
And then we had children andthen my life completely changed.
Daniel Koo (31:40):
As you had children.
How did that kind of changeyour life?
So obviously, making thedecision to let go of your
career must have been reallydifficult, and I think that
actually would help a lot oflisteners make that same
decision or make a differentdecision.
Is there anything you want toshare?
Rosa Easton (31:57):
I think I tried to look at it as my not giving up
something but gaining something,and maybe to a fault, because
all the energy that I had frommy career I threw into my
children and they would probablysay to me mom, get a job Please
.
But, danielle, I know your momand I know that she is a very
(32:22):
supportive volunteer and wantsto give back to the community
and lift up children andstudents, and I think that's
where I decided I was going tofocus my energy, that the energy
that I had for my career isgoing to shift and it's going to
go into a different area, and Ifound it in volunteering at my
(32:44):
children's school, volunteeringin the community.
I was very active in a women'sorganization that raised funds
for women and children in crisis.
I joined the boards of mychildren's schools and
eventually became the presidentof the Chadwick Parents
Association, and that's how Imet your mom.
Daniel Koo (33:05):
And that's how I met you, that's how I met your mom
and that's how I met you.
So, for some context, theschool that Rosa was a board of
is Chadwick School, and theyhave a sister school in Korea
called Chadwick International,and my mother was actually the
president of the.
Rosa Easton (33:20):
I guess the Chadwick International Parents
Association.
Daniel Koo (33:23):
Yes the Chadwick International Parents
Association, and that's how, Iguess, rosa and my mom met.
What was it like 10, 15 years?
Rosa Easton (33:29):
ago, 2011 or 2010,.
I think.
Daniel Koo (33:33):
So almost 13 years ago, and here we are talking
about your book.
Rosa Easton (33:38):
Well, here we are talking about you too, because I
met you when you were inseventh grade, when you stayed
at my house for a couple ofweeks as a homestay student, and
you were so polite and mature.
Daniel Koo (33:52):
I can't imagine or I guess it's wild to think about
that.
I'm back here working in LA.
I went to school in LA as welland it feels like LA is becoming
my second home.
So we went over gainingsomething from our children
Children, mm-hmm and home.
So we went over gainingsomething from our children.
I think that's a really goodway to look at it, because
(34:12):
childcare is basically twofull-time jobs.
I feel like you have afull-time job and you're on call
.
You have to be ready for anysorts of emergencies, whether it
be physical medical oremotional.
Rosa Easton (34:26):
So I think that's something that's really valuable
, and it's not something toeasily dismiss and I was
fortunate because my husband wasscared to death of being the
sole breadwinner, but we wereable to make it work financially
.
And not everybody is in thatsituation, and certainly in my
novel the protagonist is asingle mother and she had no
(34:48):
choice.
So all the choices that she hadrevolved around earning money
to keep a roof over her and herson's heads and making sure that
he had an education.
That life must have been andthat I was very fortunate that I
was able to stay at home withmy kids and focus on learning
(35:12):
about their world and learningabout the volunteer community.
And now, through all thatvolunteer work, I'm a trustee of
my library district here in.
Palos Verdes, where I live, andI'm very proud of that work, and
you know I'm passionate aboutpeople having free access to
books and information, becausethat's what I was given when I
(35:35):
first came here.
Daniel Koo (35:36):
As your children grew up, I feel like your third
career was beginning to bloom.
Could you tell us about how yougot started writing your book
and how you did the research?
Rosa Easton (35:48):
how you got started writing your book and how you
did the research.
Yeah, I was always told thatthere are seasons in your life
and you know, after mymotherhood season or during my
motherhood season, I always knewthat there was going to be
something else, because I thinkI always felt that I had
something that I needed to sayor do that I haven't yet done
yet.
It was just this feeling and Ifelt like it had something to.
(36:08):
I needed to say or do that Ihadn't yet done yet.
It was just this feeling and Ifelt like it had something to do
with writing and reading.
And see, even then, in my 30s,I didn't know what it was, but I
just started collecting storiesand I thought I'm a writer, I
write briefs, I write memos, Icould do this.
I used to write for a living,so I should be able to do this,
(36:29):
and I had no idea.
But I took notes.
I interviewed my grandmotherwhen she was alive.
I interviewed my father,interviewed my aunts, my mother,
my maternal grandmother.
I still have some cassettetapes that they were recorded
into, so you can see how oldthose are.
I moved on to more digitaltapes, but now I could just use
(36:52):
my phone and it's something thatI've just thought that I would
do.
When the time was right and whenmy kids were in elementary
school, I started just taking afew writing classes, just
because I had to keep my mindstimulated.
That's just the way I am, and Iwas starved for education in a
(37:15):
sort of a more formal setting.
But I couldn't get an MFA, youknow, master's of Fine Arts,
which is the degree that you getfor creative writing, and I
couldn't commute to school.
I couldn't take classes.
At least in my mind I couldn't.
I mean, I probably could have,but it wasn't for anything in
particular, it was just tocultivate my own interest in.
(37:36):
If I were to tell my familystory, what would that look like
?
What could that possibly looklike?
Daniel Koo (37:42):
So you had that book in mind, is that right?
Rosa Easton (37:44):
I always wanted to do something that served others
or gave back to the community insome way, and in trying to find
my unique way or the only thingI could do, the only thing I
could write was this story thatstarts with my grandmother Tell
us a little bit about your story.
Daniel Koo (38:06):
I thought it was super interesting when we talked
about it before where there wasthis kind of parallelism with
your grandmother, with yourfather and you.
Rosa Easton (38:15):
Yes.
Daniel Koo (38:15):
So if you can ease us into the story Sure.
Rosa Easton (38:18):
So the parallels are that we're all immigrants,
we all left our birthplace to gosomewhere else, and I don't
know why it took me writing awhole book to figure that out,
but I realized that there's anintergenerational theme and some
intergenerational conflict thatarises from this experience.
(38:40):
But my grandmother moved fromKorea to Japan during the
Japanese occupation.
During the Japanese occupationshe moved there around the 1930s
to seek an education, basicallybecause girls' education pretty
much stopped in primary schooland she wanted to further her
education.
And then my father was born inJapan from my grandmother and my
(39:01):
grandfather, who passed away ata very early age of
tuberculosis.
But then he was uprooted fromhis home when my grandmother was
drafted into the Japanese armyto serve as a nurse in the front
lines for Japan and she decidedthat she wasn't going to serve
in another country's war, acountry that didn't treat her
(39:23):
well when she was living there.
And she and her husband had adream of going back to Korea and
to reclaiming their identityand their heritage that she lost
when she went to Japan.
She's a single mom at this pointwith a young six-year-old son,
and she brings him back to Korea, and this was during the middle
of the war, this was about 1943.
(39:45):
But her Japanese was perfectand he was born in Japan, so he
spoke Japanese.
So they were easily able topass checkpoints and nobody
asked for their identificationcards, fortunately.
And so they were able to takethe ferry from Shimonoseki,
which is the last port in Japanwhere you could take the ferry
to Busan.
So they made that journey in1943, mother and son, and then
(40:11):
they arrived back in Korea, andthat's really where my first
novel ends, and it's a hopefulending.
Even though it doesn't soundhopeful, she does escape the
draft, she does take her sonwith her, she doesn't leave him,
they're together, they're asmall family and there's hope.
So that's how the first novelends.
And then I'm writing my secondone now, because I have a two
(40:32):
book deal.
So when my editor purchased oracquired my first book, she
bought my second on spec orwithout it having been written.
Daniel Koo (40:42):
Will it be kind of a continuation of the story?
Rosa Easton (40:44):
Yes, the second book is the story of again
uprooting, of this time a youngboy who is based on my father,
leaving his place of birth,which was Japan, now to Korea,
and eventually they end up goingto Manchuria and that's where
they experienced the end ofWorld War II.
(41:06):
Then they live in North Koreafor a while under the Russian
occupation, and then they escapethat and come to the South
right before the country wasofficially divided along the
38th parallel.
Daniel Koo (41:20):
Wow, that's very dramatic.
Rosa Easton (41:21):
Yes, it's very, very dramatic.
Daniel Koo (41:23):
And I know there's so many families that were split
apart during that division.
Yes, yes, and some people justhappened to be in South Korea at
the time, maybe on a trip, orsometimes it's a temporary kind
of arrangement and the countrygot divided and now you couldn't
leave the country or meet yourfamily.
Rosa Easton (41:41):
Yeah, in the novel the mother and son were able to
flee through the mountains witha guide to make it to the South
before the country wasofficially divided, but they
were treated like North Koreansat that point.
Daniel Koo (41:57):
Right.
Rosa Easton (41:57):
So they had only lived in North Korea for a short
period of time, although that'swhere my grandmother and the
protagonist in White Mulberry isfrom, from the Pyongyang area.
In white mulberry is from fromthe Pyongyang area, but even
though she made it back to NorthKorea, which was her dream,
after she went to Japan and thencame back, it was not the
country she left, and so shemade the decision again to take
(42:21):
her son south.
He was more like 10 or 11 atthe time, again displaced and
uprooted from home and family.
However, that is defined inthis period of time because
people were homeless androotless.
Daniel Koo (42:35):
I imagine there has to be some sort of
intergenerational trauma thatwas experienced.
Do you talk about that in yourbook?
Rosa Easton (42:42):
Not explicitly.
I mean, fiction is aboutshowing, not telling, and
hopefully people see and maybeeven reflect on themselves that
these experiences of priorgenerations stay with you and
it's important to know what theywent through, because that's
(43:04):
the starting point ofunderstanding who you are.
That's the starting point ofunderstanding who you are and
what wounds you may still carryin your genes, in the stories
that you've been told, in howyou feel about certain things
Like you don't even know wherethat kind of inexplicable
longing comes from.
There's a longing for something.
And then, of course, the thirdgeneration, which is my
(43:26):
generation.
We get uprooted too.
We leave Korea and come toAmerica.
So it's three generations ofmovement, and I find that to be
fascinating.
But our family is probably notthe only one who experienced
that.
Daniel Koo (43:42):
I'm sure so many people will read your book and
relate to it a lot.
Rosa Easton (43:46):
Yeah, I hope so Especially all the families in
Los Angeles.
Daniel Koo (43:49):
You know all the Koreans that have moved.
I'm sure they went through avery similar experience, maybe
not exactly the same.
Rosa Easton (43:56):
Yeah.
Daniel Koo (43:57):
So I'm very excited to read your book.
Rosa Easton (43:59):
I'm excited for you to read it.
Daniel Koo (44:00):
I've already pre-ordered it.
Thank, you.
So I'll read it as soon as itcomes out.
Rosa Easton (44:06):
Well, I hope you'll come to one of my launch events
, since they'll be in LA.
Daniel Koo (44:10):
I would love to.
That's amazing.
I'll bring my cameras andeverything and I kind of want to
go over.
What advice would you givepeople to, those who want to
become an author?
I would imagine this to beanyone, so it could be a student
.
It could be someone who is wellinto their career, looking for
(44:32):
a switch or looking to do it inparallel.
Rosa Easton (44:35):
Yeah, I think you can be an author at any point in
your life.
I think if you pursue it at ayoung age, you don't have the
benefit of experience per se,but you can still find your
voice, whatever that uniquevoice is, because you are an
individual.
There are lots of things thatmake up who you are, and finding
(44:58):
what makes you different, whatmakes you unique, and sharing
that and what that means is anauthor's job.
I think, finding it now, atthis stage of my life, I could
(45:21):
rely a lot more on my experienceof being a mother, of having a
career, of reflecting back onrelationships and love.
And when you start younger,your experience is more limited.
But you have a voice, you havea story that's uniquely yours
and finding that, I think, is anauthor's greatest challenge and
joy.
Once you find it.
Daniel Koo (45:36):
After going through the entire process of creating a
book.
To whom would you not recommendthis career?
Is there maybe like anarchetype or a persona that you
would say if you don't likethese things, maybe you're not
stepping into the correct path?
Rosa Easton (45:49):
Yeah, sitting down in your chair for a long period
of time if you don't like that.
It's hard because so much of itis the habit of sitting down
alone and staring at a blankscreen and that could be scary
for a lot of people and it'sself-imposed deadlines for a lot
of people and it's self-imposeddeadlines.
(46:10):
It's finding accountability,like an accountability writer
friend or something that'sreally important because it's a
solitary career.
Daniel Koo (46:18):
Did you have a community to rely on?
Rosa Easton (46:20):
Yeah, so I developed writer friends over
time.
In fact, during COVID when Ireally finished my book was my
writing group and I.
Four of us met every weekduring COVID and it really
helped me finish my novel.
So an author needs to bedisciplined.
(46:41):
I think my legal career helpedthat.
All those years in school andstudying helped.
I think it's a myth thatauthors have spurts or bursts of
inspiration and they'rebrilliant and so they're a
writer.
I think it's a lot of sittingdown and hashing out shitty
first drafts and going backagain and again, even when it's
(47:08):
discouraging.
You get negative feedback oryou feel like you have imposter
syndrome.
Why am I doing this?
But there's a famous quote thatyou know you're a writer if you
don't love sometimes to write,but you love having written and
I think it's that feeling ofhaving written makes you a true
(47:29):
writer.
Daniel Koo (47:30):
I like that.
I try to have that perspectivefor a lot of things in my life,
even working out.
Before you go you're not happyabout it, but afterwards you
feel great.
You feel good.
I experienced this with my.
I've been into running recently.
If I run over 30 minutes, I getthe runner's high and I feel
(47:50):
glee afterwards.
It was quite the experience, um,and I think when you first
start your run, you know it'sgoing to be rough, um, and you,
you know you question everythingabout your life during the 20
minutes that I'm running, um,but afterwards it's's just so
great and I feel great havingdone it, and I feel like it's a
(48:10):
very similar experience that youwent through.
Rosa Easton (48:12):
Yes, I think that's true about a lot of things is
continuity routine, doing it dayafter day.
As Malcolm Gladwell said,10,000 hours is when you feel
like you've put in the time andthe effort to make something
that you're proud of.
Daniel Koo (48:31):
What's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who
may be considering leavingtheir career for a little bit to
become a mother or to become aparent, because I'm sure a lot
of people will struggle withthat decision?
Rosa Easton (48:45):
Yeah, it's a highly personal choice, but I think I
always knew I wanted to havekids.
So when we had them I felt atremendous sense of
responsibility and I think youdo what feels right to you and
your particular circumstance.
And everyone's going to have adifferent approach and a
(49:05):
different decision when it comesto being a parent based on your
financial circumstances, basedon your personality.
Who has more patience betweenyou and your partner and want to
actually raise the children andspend the time, who really
wants to go back to theircareers or have fulfillment in
(49:27):
their careers and it's aconstant adjustment.
One way is not going to be theonly way and that way only.
Family dynamics change all thetime and I think you have to be
ready to pivot and be flexibleabout if you need help in
something.
As a mother, you know you relyon your spouse, or you rely on a
(49:49):
friend, or you rely on aneighbor.
Raising a child is notsomething that one could do
alone.
Really, I think it takes avillage, it takes a community,
but people are willing to do it.
I think asking for help is animportant virtue to being a
mother.
It's important to be able toknow your limitations and ask
(50:14):
for help when you need it.
Daniel Koo (50:15):
Could you tell us a little bit about where your
career is headed?
So I'm imagining from now toDecember you're going to be busy
promoting your book andcelebrating, and I'm sure also
writing your second book, yes,but what's ahead in your career
like far into the future as well?
Rosa Easton (50:31):
Finishing my second book by my August 2025 deadline
will be my immediate path Afterthat.
I think I mentioned to youbefore we started this
conversation that I actuallyrealized I have a third book, so
my agent will.
I haven't really discussed thiswith her yet, but if I were to
write a third book then we haveto go through the process of
(50:53):
finding a publisher for thatbook.
So I imagine that's going totake time and I'll be keeping
the first novel, moving forward,writing the second novel,
thinking about the third noveland living sort of a writerly
life and managing my time as myown time.
I think that's really the giftof being a writer is you can
(51:16):
write in the middle of the nightIf you can't go to sleep.
You could do it in the morningwhen you're fresh.
But it's that dedication andthat discipline that will help
you reach your result, reachyour goal.
My husband joked the other daythat because he's nearing
retirement from his legal careerand he thinks it's ironic that
(51:39):
his career is ending and mine isbeginning.
Daniel Koo (51:42):
It's your time now.
Rosa Easton (51:44):
My season has come, my hung up just passed and I'm
being reborn and I think thatanalogy is a good one too is
that we're never stagnant, andbeing open to possibility and
being curious about yourenvironment, your past, other
(52:04):
people, anything in life beingcurious, I think, is really what
an author truly needs to keepgoing, and whatever it is that
makes them curious.
Daniel Koo (52:16):
To summarize a little bit about what we talked
about today.
One of the most importantthings I think I've learned is
being curious, as you justmentioned, and also being very
patient.
I've realized that before youwent to law school, you've
explored a lot of things.
You've studied the things youwanted to, or you trained in a
new language and you've been aparalegal, so you know where
(52:39):
you're stepping towards.
I think that patience has beena very big virtue in helping you
with this career later on bigvirtue in helping you with this
career later on Also, before youbecame a writer.
I feel like you've done so muchresearch and also not rushing
it and being able to reallyprocess it and understand it so
that you're able to write thesestories a lot better.
(53:00):
So I take those lessons with metoday.
Thank you so much for beinghere and my hope in the future
we'll have you again.
Rosa Easton (53:08):
Thank you, daniel, I really appreciate it.
My hope in the future we'llhave you again.
Thank you, daniel, I reallyappreciate it.
Yes, with my second book andthird book maybe, but you're
doing a phenomenal job with thispodcast and I really appreciate
the opportunity to be invitedhere.
And I'm touched because we havethis connection to Chadwick and
from when you were younger andyou stayed at our home, so I
(53:32):
think trading places like thisis very heartwarming, so I
appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Daniel Koo (53:38):
Thank you.
It was just this feeling and I felt like it had
something to do with writing andreading.
And see, even then, in my 30s,I didn't know what it was.
But I just started collectingstories and I thought I'm a
writer.
I write briefs, I write memos.
I could do this.
I used to write for a living.
I started just taking a fewwriting classes just because I
(00:23):
had to keep my mind stimulated.
That's just the way I am.
Daniel Koo (00:27):
Welcome back to my Perfect Path, a show about
chasing dreams and buildingcareers.
I'm your host, daniel Koo, andtoday we're joined by Rosa
Easton, a family friend andauthor of soon-to-be-published
White Mulberry.
Rosa's journey to becoming anauthor is as inspiring as it is
unexpected.
After studying government atSmith College, earning a
master's in international andpublic affairs at Columbia and
(00:50):
later attending law school atBoston College, she practiced
law for six years beforeeventually devoting her time to
her children and later pursuingher passion for storytelling.
Today, rosa is a writer,attorney, elected trustee of the
Palos Verdes Library Districtand mother of two adult children
.
In this episode, rosa shareswhat inspired her to write White
(01:12):
Mulberry, how she balancedfamily with career as an
attorney and as an author, andhow her family's rich history,
spanning from Korea to LosAngeles, shaped her work.
Whether you're interested instorytelling, starting something
new or discovering the roots ofpersonal resilience, rosa's
journey will inspire you.
Hope you enjoy the episode.
Rosa, welcome to my PerfectPath.
(01:36):
I'm thrilled to have you here.
Rosa Easton (01:38):
Thank you, Daniel, for having me.
I'm thrilled to be here.
Daniel Koo (01:41):
Could you tell us a little bit about your current
state with your book and yourcurrent role as you would define
it?
Rosa Easton (01:47):
Yes, actually, just before coming here today, I met
with my conversation partnerfor my launch event.
Usually, what happens when yourbook comes out shortly
thereafter, you have a launchparty or a launch event where
people gather to celebrate yourbook coming out, which means
it's in print and available foreveryone to read.
(02:11):
So I met with a woman who isgoing to be my conversation
partner at that launch event.
Daniel Koo (02:16):
What is a conversation partner?
Rosa Easton (02:18):
So a conversation partner is just like this it's
somebody who sits with you andasks you questions about your
book.
So it's in production right now, so it's waiting to be printed.
I imagine like a conveyor beltof books waiting to be.
Daniel Koo (02:34):
In some sort of factory.
Rosa Easton (02:35):
Some sort of factory and I'm in line, my book
is in line and December 1stit's going to be available to
the general public and so rightnow my audio narrator is
probably busy doing the audiobook.
And that was an interestingprocess because the production
manager emailed me and said hehad three people who auditioned
(02:59):
for my book and I had theopportunity to listen to each
one and I took it very seriouslybecause I really wanted the
spirit of the character to bereflected in the voice and I did
research on each narrator andwhat other books they've read,
and the one that I chose I thinkis going to be great.
She's emotional, dramatic whenshe needs to be, and I really
(03:23):
enjoyed her voice emotionaldramatic when she needs to be,
and I really enjoyed her voice.
Daniel Koo (03:26):
What's the best parts and worst parts about
being an author?
I imagine at this point you'rein the fun stage.
I imagine because the work isdone, but I would love to hear
more.
Rosa Easton (03:42):
Yeah, it's definitely a different stage and
for some people, it could bereally fun, but I think most
authors are solitary by natureor they have to be in order to
write a book, and this partrequires more connecting with
people and arranging things and,for example, organizing who's
going to be at my launch event.
Who am I going to invite, whatam I going to say about my book?
(04:03):
And I do have a publicity teamhelping me, so they're very
outward facing, soliciting mediacontacts, interviews, Q&As,
podcasts and helping me refinemy social media presence as well
.
Looking at my website, how I domy Instagram and Facebook posts
(04:24):
it's a lot of minutiae in there, so I'm very busy with all
those aspects and obviouslythere's somebody who's helping
me with events not only in LA,but in Chicago, New York and
Boston.
Daniel Koo (04:36):
Wow, that sounds super exciting.
I'm an extrovert, so I lovemeeting people going to events,
holding events.
I think I would be very excited, but are you more of an
introvert?
Rosa Easton (04:46):
I think some of my friends, and my husband too,
would definitely call me anextrovert, but I do get
energized by being around peopleand connecting and going to
events.
But I also need some downtimeand I think that's where writing
comes in, because it isdefinitely something you do
alone, yeah, but important tohave a community as well of
(05:10):
writers who understand what thatlife is like.
Daniel Koo (05:13):
Yeah, I imagine it's really difficult to write a
book when there's constantdistractions, so that makes
sense.
Rosa Easton (05:18):
Yes, it took me 10 years to actually write it and
20 years researching it andinterviewing my grandmother and
my father and relatives, andreally 40 years, I think, having
the first inkling of an ideathat this might be an
interesting story to tellsomeday, and that was when I did
(05:39):
my junior year abroad incollege in Japan, in Kyoto.
Daniel Koo (05:43):
Yeah, I'm really excited to read it when it comes
out in December.
It's going to be on Amazon, isthat right?
Rosa Easton (05:50):
Yes, amazon Publishing is my publisher.
Lake Union is the imprint thatfocuses on historical fiction,
women's fiction, book clubfiction, commercial fiction.
There's a lot of genres andmany genres in the publishing
industry that I'm realizing andsomehow I guess I wrote a
(06:11):
women's fiction book because ina historical setting, women's
fiction features a strong femaleprotagonist and that's what I
did featured a strong femaleprotagonist.
Daniel Koo (06:22):
So, from a high level, what were some of your
roles in the past?
Rosa Easton (06:26):
Yeah, I was a student for many years.
I went to high school,undergrad, graduate school, law
school and I didn't really havemy first job until I was in my
late 20s and I worked as alawyer for only six years.
So I went to law school forthree years, then worked for six
years and there wasn't a greatreturn on investment there, I
(06:47):
would say.
But we started a family, myhusband and I, and when our
second child was born it wasvery difficult at the time.
Things have changed.
Finding childcare was difficult.
You didn't work from home oryou didn't have a hybrid
possibility, so you were puttingon your suit and going to the
office five days a week and itwas too much of a strain on our
(07:10):
family both of us to be workingfull time.
My husband's also a lawyer,yeah.
So our family structure changedwhen we had children and I
think I see that a lot infamilies.
Fortunately, we were able to befinancially okay with my
husband's one income.
But I remember we were talkingand he said that was the
(07:32):
scariest moment of his life,because now he was solely
responsible for the family.
Daniel Koo (07:36):
For the entire family.
Rosa Easton (07:37):
For the entire family.
It was a significant moment inmy life because I felt I was
giving up my career, what I hadworked so hard for, not knowing
what the future was going tobring.
Daniel Koo (07:51):
And writing.
The book started while you werestill doing childcare and that
kind of came to fruition manyyears later right.
Rosa Easton (08:00):
It's such a full-time job that mostly I was
just reading in my spare timeand I wasn't consciously writing
, but when we had familygatherings or I'd hear stories
and I'd take notes and just putit away.
But was always thinking aboutit in the back of my mind that
someday I'm going to dosomething with this, because
(08:21):
it's really important to recallour family stories because
otherwise they'd be lost.
Daniel Koo (08:26):
I want to talk a little bit about where you grew
up and what kind of circumstanceyour family was in.
Rosa Easton (08:31):
Yeah, I was born in Seoul, south Korea, and I moved
to Los Angeles.
My family moved to Los Angeleswhen I was seven that was 1971.
And I have two younger brothers.
They're younger than I am twoyears younger and then three
years younger, so we're prettyclose in age and my family moved
to Hawthorne, california here,and we went to the elementary
(08:55):
schools not knowing a word ofEnglish, I think from an early
age.
I found comfort and belongingin books.
Daniel Koo (09:05):
Were these English books.
Rosa Easton (09:07):
These are English books.
Yeah, maybe I had some Koreanlanguage I was in first grade
and so my Korean development andthe Korean language stopped
abruptly in first grade.
I transitioned pretty quicklyand we grew up with my parents
both working full-time jobs.
Daniel Koo (09:26):
My father actually has an MBA from Yonsei
University which is one of thetop three universities in Korea.
Rosa Easton (09:34):
But when he came to the United States he was a
janitor and when my grandmotherheard that he was cleaning
bathrooms, I think she felt thatthis is my mother's mom.
She, and then my mother, alsoasked her if she wouldn't mind
coming and helping, because itwas very difficult for them.
(09:54):
So she ended up coming and Iwould say that my maternal
grandmother was my surrogate mom.
Growing up, my mother worked.
She worked at a Xerox assemblyplant.
She worked at a graveyard shift.
She took a side job of sewing.
She had a Singer sewing machineat the house and I remember her
bringing pattern home and beingon the sewing machine for a
(10:18):
large part of that and therevving of the foot pedal going
on all night and sometimes I'dpeek around and she'd have like
thread all over her hair andsometimes we'd be asked to do
small tasks, like usually yousew a pattern inside out and
then you flip it out, and so forsocks and for pointy things, I
(10:41):
used to take a little needle andmake it pointy again, turning
it inside out.
Boy, I'm remembering a lot ofthings.
I used to take a little needleand make it pointy again,
turning it inside out.
Boy, I'm remembering a lot ofthings.
Daniel Koo (10:49):
So during your childhood, how has books played
a role in your life?
Rosa Easton (10:53):
Yeah, when you come to the United States and you
start living in a new culture,you're curious or you need to
know what that world is allabout.
And there's the inside, thehome world.
And then there's the outsidethe home world, and we certainly
had that growing up, because athome we would speak Korean, eat
Korean food, obey our parents.
(11:14):
And then we go into the outsideworld and we're supposed to
know how American society worksand what the relationship
between parent and child is inan American family and why they
don't take their shoes off whenthey enter the house.
And so I learned that throughBeverly Cleary and Junie B Jones
(11:36):
.
I didn't know if that was evenaround.
Daniel Koo (11:37):
then I remember those.
Rosa Easton (11:39):
Actually, I think Junie B Jones came much later.
But Judy Blume, hardy Boys,nancy Drew yeah, lots of books.
I imagine I can see the rows inthe library where they were at
my local library.
Daniel Koo (11:53):
And I imagine you had to do a lot of translations
for your parents too.
Rosa Easton (11:56):
Yes, yes, they called that being parentified in
psychology, which I learned intherapy that when you assume the
role of a parent at a young age, that has an impact on you, you
are more responsible, you feelmore responsible than maybe a
child should be at that age.
Yes, translating documents orforms, school forms, calling
(12:22):
people when something was needed, turning the electricity on or
answering the phone whenstrangers would call, and things
like that.
Daniel Koo (12:31):
And I'm the oldest and birth order plays a role in
that you had to be like theleader of the family in the
English world.
Rosa Easton (12:38):
In the English world, in the outside world.
Daniel Koo (12:41):
So when you were growing up, did you ever imagine
that you might even be anauthor, or was that never in the
grand plan?
Rosa Easton (12:48):
Author was so nebulous because my parents and
a lot of the immigrantcommunities they talk about only
three careers lawyer, doctorand engineer businessman.
So I was raised only thinkingthose three careers existed,
although there was a period oftime when my mom saw Connie
Chung on TV Connie Chung was thefirst Asian American news
(13:12):
anchor in the 70s and shethought that I could be that too
, but I didn't really have aninterest in being in front of TV
.
Yet here we are with cameras,yet here we are with the cameras
TV Yet here we are with cameras.
Yet here we are with thecameras and yeah, and getting a
lot more attention to my bookand how I wrote my book, and so
it's an interesting circle.
The outwardness, though, Iexperienced a lot when I was a
(13:35):
lawyer, because I was alitigator and I had to go to
court and I did have to speak infront of people.
So it's not foreign to me, butit's in a completely different
context, where you're talkingabout yourself and you're not
advocating for your client'sbest interest.
Daniel Koo (13:49):
I'm sure the shyness goes away after once or twice
going in the courtroom.
Yes, at least I think that one.
You get to prepare a lot.
Rosa Easton (13:59):
Yes.
Daniel Koo (14:00):
And maybe have some partners and things like that.
Rosa Easton (14:03):
And it's not about you.
Daniel Koo (14:04):
So I guess I feel like it's a little bit different
.
Rosa Easton (14:06):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's what I'm trying to
learn through this process isthat, yes, the book came out of
me.
We call it like the birthing ofa book, and you carry your
child for 10 years and comes outinto the world and you don't
know what's going to happen.
It's like having a child.
(14:32):
Actually, you don't know theybecome their own thing.
And that's what my authorfriends say is that you've done
your job and it's going to havea life of its own.
And they say, when your bookgoes out into the world, you
don't really know how it's goingto turn out, but you've done
the best you could do and that'swhat you have to feel
satisfaction from.
Daniel Koo (14:46):
Yeah, I'm sure if you only look at the rewards or
if you expect it to be someamazing like bestseller, then
I'm sure it's going to be atough job to do in the future.
If your first book you spent 10years on it, it doesn't perform
as well as you thought it would, or something, and if you want
to give up right there and thenI'm sure it's not very
(15:06):
sustainable.
Rosa Easton (15:07):
Yeah, I don't regret doing it, but I didn't do
it for it to be a bestseller.
I did it so that I could sharea story that hasn't been told
with an audience that I think isout there, but waiting for
something like this to end up infront of them when they most
need it.
Daniel Koo (15:27):
I want to talk a little bit about going to
college, undergrad, and what youmajored and what you want to
study.
Rosa Easton (15:35):
Like I said, my family settled in Los Angeles
but I went to Smith College,which is in Massachusetts.
It was originally aseven-sister college in
Massachusetts.
It was originally aseven-sister college which is an
all-women's college, and myparents initially were very wary
of sending their first daughteracross the country alone, but
they were comforted by the factthat it was an all-women's
(15:58):
college.
But there were no bars or locks.
There were plenty of men oncampus and I had the opportunity
to go to other campuses.
So, yes, it was a women'scollege, but-.
Daniel Koo (16:11):
Was it a false sense of security?
Rosa Easton (16:12):
Yeah, I think they had a false sense of security
that I wouldn't meet men if Iwent to an all women's college
and I could just go and study.
But it was a wonderfulexperience and it really
broadened my world and I thinkhaving that education and this
is fleshed out in my book aswell the drive for education and
(16:33):
the importance of education andthe doors education opens is
really powerful and I thinkeducation is one of the most
important gifts that we could begiven and a young person could
be given to expand their mindsand opportunities.
Daniel Koo (16:50):
If you go back to maybe 20-year-old Rosa.
What were you passionate about?
What did you want to studythere?
What was your major?
Rosa Easton (16:58):
Yeah, thank you for bringing me back on topic.
No worries me back on topic.
No worries, no worries.
I majored in government becauseI thought I was going to law
school.
And I did end up going to lawschool, but it was not because I
loved political science andstudying about political systems
and philosophy, but it seemedlike it was the right thing to
(17:22):
do and I didn't dislike it.
It was a social science and Ithought that was practical.
I did take some English andcreative writing classes and a
couple of art history classes,but thinking back on it now, I
wish I had taken more of thosehumanities-type classes instead
of more practical social scienceor science, instead of more
(17:42):
practical social science orscience, because I think I
realize now that that was mychance to take some of those
classes offered to me on asilver platter really.
Daniel Koo (17:54):
Is majoring in government helpful to go to law
school?
Is that usually like a trackthat people take?
Rosa Easton (18:26):
no-transcript international affairs.
So I went to the School ofInternational and Public Affairs
at Columbia and delved a littlebit deeper into Japanese
language study and Asian studies, and I think learning more
Asian history at that timereally helped me with the
(18:48):
research for my book.
Daniel Koo (18:50):
When you were in undergrad, were you already
thinking about going to lawschool?
Rosa Easton (18:56):
I think I was toward the end, because I really
didn't know what else I wasgoing to do and I thought I
should be a paralegal so I couldjust try it out.
And then I thought it's not bad, but I don't know yet.
So I got my master's and Ithought, well, maybe I'll work
for the UN or maybe I'll be adiplomat.
But it just seemed undefined alittle bit, and law school
(19:19):
seemed more certain.
Daniel Koo (19:21):
Was money at the top of mind for you?
Were you thinking about, oh, Ineed to make a living, or did
you have some sort of ambitionto make money as well?
Rosa Easton (19:48):
I be financially stable.
I don't think I worried that Iwouldn't have a job, but I just
I guess I didn't know what myperfect job was, so I just
leaned into what I knew I wasgood at and that it seemed
interesting and something Ishould know more about.
I was exploring.
Daniel Koo (20:01):
For your master's program.
How did you find the programand what kind of drew you to it?
Rosa Easton (20:06):
You're bringing me way back into the past now.
When I was a paralegal I workedat American International Group,
which is a global insurancecompany.
I worked in their legaldepartment and my boss there was
an attorney and he had gone tomaster's program before he went
to law school.
So I thought that was a coolroute and actually he made me
(20:30):
aware of a scholarship programthat was offered to me so I
could go to graduate school andit didn't cost me anything
because I was awarded thisscholarship.
So the opportunity to get upperlevel education without having
to worry about the financialrepercussions was an amazing
(20:54):
gift.
Daniel Koo (20:55):
Was the process to get that scholarship difficult?
How would one get that?
Is that something you can share?
Rosa Easton (21:01):
Well, no, I mean and this is the other thing that
you learn over time is that itwas my connection with my boss
at my job who told me about thisopportunity, and he helped
facilitate the introduction tothe foundation that gave me
money for my graduate program.
And it was a private familyfoundation, so it's not well
(21:24):
known.
A private family foundation, soit's not well known.
So I think it's always good tomeet people and be yourself and
be your true self, and if peoplelike you and you do good work,
doors will open.
Daniel Koo (21:38):
I agree.
I also know that it's a goodpractice to be the squeaky wheel
.
You want to complain, you wantto talk about what you're trying
to achieve and people aroundyou will help you because they
know, yes, and if they don'tknow, they can't even help you.
Rosa Easton (21:53):
Yes, and I so value having had those two years to
study international affairs,delve more into my Japanese
language skills, and actuallythat's how I met my husband.
Daniel Koo (22:04):
Oh, we got to get into that.
So during your master's, whatwas top of mind?
Were you passionate aboutsomething or did you just want
to get it over with what wasgoing through your mind?
Rosa Easton (22:15):
No, I was passionate about the world.
I worked for this multinationalinsurance company and I wanted
to know more about America'splace in the world, and I took a
lot of classes in internationalpolicy.
Actually, my senior year incollege I did a seminar class in
Japanese foreign policy towardKorea, and so I just became more
(22:39):
interested in Asian studies andso I have a certificate from
the East Asian Institute as wellat Columbia.
So I have the master's and alsoa certificate from the East
Asian Institute, and as part ofthe requirements to obtain that
certificate I had to beproficient in a foreign language
.
So I decided to go toMiddlebury College, which has a
(23:01):
very rigorous, intensive foreignlanguage program, where you go
and you only speak that languagefor the entire summer.
And it's even more intense thanactually going to the country,
because when you go there's allthis English around you and
people want to speak Englishwith you.
But when you go to MiddleburyCollege Summer Language Program,
each language has its ownschool and its own dormitory,
(23:25):
and so you only interact withthe people in your dormitory, so
everyone speaks Japanese, forexample, 24 hours a day, in the
bathroom, in the kitchen, in thedining hall.
Russian school, chinese school,french, german, spanish.
I think those were the sixschools that were available at
the time, so I was at theJapanese language school and
(23:45):
that's where I met my husband.
Did you know any Japanesebefore going there?
Yes, I spent my junior yearabroad, when I was at Smith in
Kyoto on the Associated KyotoProgram, and so that's when my
Japanese improved a little bitand that's when I met my
Korean-Japanese relatives forthe first time.
So I met my husband in thesummer between my first and
(24:06):
second year of graduate schooland he was headed to law school
in Boston and I was still in NewYork.
So we had a long distancerelationship for a year, but
then I ended up going to Bostonfor law school.
Daniel Koo (24:22):
So were your first interactions with your husband
purely in Japanese?
Rosa Easton (24:25):
Yes, we have it's very interesting.
It's a very interestingbeginning because you realize so
much of communication is bodylanguage and we were pretty good
academic Japanese but when wehad to speak it we were pretty
goofy and I think we let ourguard down because we didn't
have to be who we thought wewere and we were just trying to
(24:50):
communicate in a foreignlanguage together and it really
made it simple, I think.
Daniel Koo (24:55):
It kind of feels like summer camp or something
like that.
Rosa Easton (24:59):
It was summer camp.
It was summer camp.
And when we went on our firstdate together.
We weren't really supposed todo this, but he had a car and we
drove to Montreal.
Montreal wasn't very far fromMiddlebury, which is in
Middlebury, vermont, and so wecrossed the border.
So we thought, okay, we're safe, now we could speak English
(25:21):
without violating any rule.
We had to sign a contract whenwe entered the school saying we
would only speak Japanese forthe entire time we were at the
school.
Daniel Koo (25:31):
Okay, so you left the country to do that.
So we left the country to speakEnglish.
Rosa Easton (25:35):
And I started speaking English and he looked
at me and said, oh my gosh,you're speaking Valley Girl
English.
And I said, yes, I'm from LosAngeles girl English.
And I said, yes, I'm from LosAngeles.
At the time in the 80s thevalley girl thing was big, so I
think he associated me with that, but also he's from Boston and
(25:56):
he's not Korean and so I thinkhe might not have expected that
he might not have expected thatvalley girl would come from a
Korean woman.
Daniel Koo (26:04):
Yeah, To come back a little bit to your master's
program, I feel like yourmotivations were very sincere
and genuine, which I feel likeis very different than how a lot
of us now approach master'sprograms.
Especially for engineering, wetend to look at the shortest
program that will give us themost technical skills.
Rosa Easton (26:25):
Right.
Daniel Koo (26:25):
With just the right amount of, I guess, authority
and name so that we can us themost technical skills, with just
the right amount of, I guess,authority and name so that we
can get the next job.
Did you go through a similarprocess?
Did you ever think about whatthat master's program will do
for you?
Rosa Easton (26:37):
I don't think I was very smart in those days
because I didn't think in thoseterms.
I think I have a much moreliberal studies attitude and
interest.
So my goal was to learn as muchas possible and then a job will
come from that.
That might be a very altruisticway of looking at things, but
(27:00):
if I just did what interested meand that I wanted to learn more
about that, something goodwould come of that.
I knew eventually I'd have toget a job.
And so then I did end up goingto law school after my master's
program because I thought timewas running out.
I thought I have to get a jobnow soon, enough of just
(27:23):
studying all the time.
So that's when I went to lawschool and, yeah, it was much
more technical and practicallyoriented and I didn't love that
actually, but I wasn't bad at it.
I don't think I had a passionfor it and I think in retrospect
that's why it wasn't asdifficult for me to give it up
when I had children.
Daniel Koo (27:44):
So the decision to go to law school finally, did
that feel like a big risk to youor did you feel like it was a
natural progression?
Rosa Easton (27:52):
I think it was a natural progression, something
that I had in my mind, butsomething that not that I put
off for as long as possible, butsomething that where I knew
that once I went to law school,I would never have the chance to
go back and get a master's andto learn from my professors, to
go to summer camp, to exploredifferent internship
(28:14):
opportunities.
I just wanted to prolong thateducation phase for as long as
possible.
Daniel Koo (28:20):
Right.
I think one of the great partsabout education earlier on is
you get to use it for the restof your life.
Rosa Easton (28:27):
Yes.
Daniel Koo (28:28):
Whereas if you maybe push it off and say maybe I'll
do it later, maybe when I havetime, you're never going to have
that time and once you startworking, it's just.
I feel like there's no end.
Rosa Easton (28:39):
That's right.
That's right, I'm working is,as my children said, it's like
we only get two weeks vacation.
It's yes, that's right.
No, three-month summers and Ireally liked those three-month
summers and the rhythm of beingin school and I thought about
getting a PhD.
Actually, that was one of myother interests.
Daniel Koo (29:00):
Stay in school for even longer.
Rosa Easton (29:01):
Stay in school forever.
But I think by that point Irealized that academic life had
its own limitations and I thinkI like interacting with people
more than I thought and Ithought being a lawyer would get
me out in the world a littlemore, in the real world.
Daniel Koo (29:18):
Did you feel like there were any significant
challenges during this time?
Maybe it's looking for a job,or maybe it's looking for a new
career path, or maybe it'srelationships.
Did you feel like there wasanything that was difficult?
Rosa Easton (29:31):
I think first year of law school is really hard
academically.
It's the 1L experiences.
Daniel Koo (29:37):
It's notorious.
Rosa Easton (29:38):
It's notorious.
And I did okay, but I wasn't atthe top of my class and I think
by then I just enjoyed learningfor the sake of learning too
much, that I didn't put all myeggs in one basket, like I had
to get all A's my first year, orelse I'm going to think less of
myself.
I think I had matured enough toknow that there were other
(30:01):
things in life, and so when Imet my husband, things were
already shifting.
My priorities were shifting alittle bit.
I think when you find a lifepartner, your priorities
naturally shift, and I thinkmeeting him when I met him
changed me and my career pathfor sure.
Daniel Koo (30:24):
Do you feel like you had a bigger capacity to handle
these things because you wentto law school a bit later To
handle relationships and lawschool and balancing everything?
Rosa Easton (30:34):
Yeah, I took four years between undergrad and law
school and I think it was justenough time to mature enough to
realize that life is not allabout getting the best grades.
And, of course, if you want theelite law firm experience,
that's what you're going to haveto do.
But I didn't know what I wantedto do.
(30:55):
I thought I wanted to work in alaw firm because that's what
everybody did, so I dideventually end up at a small
boutique law firm in Los Angelesrepresenting healthcare
companies and, ironically, mybook.
I have a lot of healthcareproviders in my family my
grandmother was a nurse, mybrother's a doctor, my aunt's a
(31:16):
nurse, my cousin is a surgeon,so medicine was an important
part, and so I think that was inthe back of my mind when I
accepted this position.
But it certainly wasn't likeone of the work 3,000 hours kind
of law firm and by that point Idon't think that's what I
wanted.
And then we had children andthen my life completely changed.
Daniel Koo (31:40):
As you had children.
How did that kind of changeyour life?
So obviously, making thedecision to let go of your
career must have been reallydifficult, and I think that
actually would help a lot oflisteners make that same
decision or make a differentdecision.
Is there anything you want toshare?
Rosa Easton (31:57):
I think I tried to look at it as my not giving up
something but gaining something,and maybe to a fault, because
all the energy that I had frommy career I threw into my
children and they would probablysay to me mom, get a job Please
.
But, danielle, I know your momand I know that she is a very
(32:22):
supportive volunteer and wantsto give back to the community
and lift up children andstudents, and I think that's
where I decided I was going tofocus my energy, that the energy
that I had for my career isgoing to shift and it's going to
go into a different area, and Ifound it in volunteering at my
(32:44):
children's school, volunteeringin the community.
I was very active in a women'sorganization that raised funds
for women and children in crisis.
I joined the boards of mychildren's schools and
eventually became the presidentof the Chadwick Parents
Association, and that's how Imet your mom.
Daniel Koo (33:05):
And that's how I met you, that's how I met your mom
and that's how I met you.
So, for some context, theschool that Rosa was a board of
is Chadwick School, and theyhave a sister school in Korea
called Chadwick International,and my mother was actually the
president of the.
Rosa Easton (33:20):
I guess the Chadwick International Parents
Association.
Daniel Koo (33:23):
Yes the Chadwick International Parents
Association, and that's how, Iguess, rosa and my mom met.
What was it like 10, 15 years?
Rosa Easton (33:29):
ago, 2011 or 2010,.
I think.
Daniel Koo (33:33):
So almost 13 years ago, and here we are talking
about your book.
Rosa Easton (33:38):
Well, here we are talking about you too, because I
met you when you were inseventh grade, when you stayed
at my house for a couple ofweeks as a homestay student, and
you were so polite and mature.
Daniel Koo (33:52):
I can't imagine or I guess it's wild to think about
that.
I'm back here working in LA.
I went to school in LA as welland it feels like LA is becoming
my second home.
So we went over gainingsomething from our children
Children, mm-hmm and home.
So we went over gainingsomething from our children.
I think that's a really goodway to look at it, because
(34:12):
childcare is basically twofull-time jobs.
I feel like you have afull-time job and you're on call
.
You have to be ready for anysorts of emergencies, whether it
be physical medical oremotional.
Rosa Easton (34:26):
So I think that's something that's really valuable
, and it's not something toeasily dismiss and I was
fortunate because my husband wasscared to death of being the
sole breadwinner, but we wereable to make it work financially
.
And not everybody is in thatsituation, and certainly in my
novel the protagonist is asingle mother and she had no
(34:48):
choice.
So all the choices that she hadrevolved around earning money
to keep a roof over her and herson's heads and making sure that
he had an education.
That life must have been andthat I was very fortunate that I
was able to stay at home withmy kids and focus on learning
(35:12):
about their world and learningabout the volunteer community.
And now, through all thatvolunteer work, I'm a trustee of
my library district here in.
Palos Verdes, where I live, andI'm very proud of that work, and
you know I'm passionate aboutpeople having free access to
books and information, becausethat's what I was given when I
(35:35):
first came here.
Daniel Koo (35:36):
As your children grew up, I feel like your third
career was beginning to bloom.
Could you tell us about how yougot started writing your book
and how you did the research?
Rosa Easton (35:48):
how you got started writing your book and how you
did the research.
Yeah, I was always told thatthere are seasons in your life
and you know, after mymotherhood season or during my
motherhood season, I always knewthat there was going to be
something else, because I thinkI always felt that I had
something that I needed to sayor do that I haven't yet done
yet.
It was just this feeling and Ifelt like it had something to.
(36:08):
I needed to say or do that Ihadn't yet done yet.
It was just this feeling and Ifelt like it had something to do
with writing and reading.
And see, even then, in my 30s,I didn't know what it was, but I
just started collecting storiesand I thought I'm a writer, I
write briefs, I write memos, Icould do this.
I used to write for a living,so I should be able to do this,
(36:29):
and I had no idea.
But I took notes.
I interviewed my grandmotherwhen she was alive.
I interviewed my father,interviewed my aunts, my mother,
my maternal grandmother.
I still have some cassettetapes that they were recorded
into, so you can see how oldthose are.
I moved on to more digitaltapes, but now I could just use
(36:52):
my phone and it's something thatI've just thought that I would
do.
When the time was right and whenmy kids were in elementary
school, I started just taking afew writing classes, just
because I had to keep my mindstimulated.
That's just the way I am, and Iwas starved for education in a
(37:15):
sort of a more formal setting.
But I couldn't get an MFA, youknow, master's of Fine Arts,
which is the degree that you getfor creative writing, and I
couldn't commute to school.
I couldn't take classes.
At least in my mind I couldn't.
I mean, I probably could have,but it wasn't for anything in
particular, it was just tocultivate my own interest in.
(37:36):
If I were to tell my familystory, what would that look like
?
What could that possibly looklike?
Daniel Koo (37:42):
So you had that book in mind, is that right?
Rosa Easton (37:44):
I always wanted to do something that served others
or gave back to the community insome way, and in trying to find
my unique way or the only thingI could do, the only thing I
could write was this story thatstarts with my grandmother Tell
us a little bit about your story.
Daniel Koo (38:06):
I thought it was super interesting when we talked
about it before where there wasthis kind of parallelism with
your grandmother, with yourfather and you.
Rosa Easton (38:15):
Yes.
Daniel Koo (38:15):
So if you can ease us into the story Sure.
Rosa Easton (38:18):
So the parallels are that we're all immigrants,
we all left our birthplace to gosomewhere else, and I don't
know why it took me writing awhole book to figure that out,
but I realized that there's anintergenerational theme and some
intergenerational conflict thatarises from this experience.
(38:40):
But my grandmother moved fromKorea to Japan during the
Japanese occupation.
During the Japanese occupationshe moved there around the 1930s
to seek an education, basicallybecause girls' education pretty
much stopped in primary schooland she wanted to further her
education.
And then my father was born inJapan from my grandmother and my
(39:01):
grandfather, who passed away ata very early age of
tuberculosis.
But then he was uprooted fromhis home when my grandmother was
drafted into the Japanese armyto serve as a nurse in the front
lines for Japan and she decidedthat she wasn't going to serve
in another country's war, acountry that didn't treat her
(39:23):
well when she was living there.
And she and her husband had adream of going back to Korea and
to reclaiming their identityand their heritage that she lost
when she went to Japan.
She's a single mom at this pointwith a young six-year-old son,
and she brings him back to Korea, and this was during the middle
of the war, this was about 1943.
(39:45):
But her Japanese was perfectand he was born in Japan, so he
spoke Japanese.
So they were easily able topass checkpoints and nobody
asked for their identificationcards, fortunately.
And so they were able to takethe ferry from Shimonoseki,
which is the last port in Japanwhere you could take the ferry
to Busan.
So they made that journey in1943, mother and son, and then
(40:11):
they arrived back in Korea, andthat's really where my first
novel ends, and it's a hopefulending.
Even though it doesn't soundhopeful, she does escape the
draft, she does take her sonwith her, she doesn't leave him,
they're together, they're asmall family and there's hope.
So that's how the first novelends.
And then I'm writing my secondone now, because I have a two
(40:32):
book deal.
So when my editor purchased oracquired my first book, she
bought my second on spec orwithout it having been written.
Daniel Koo (40:42):
Will it be kind of a continuation of the story?
Rosa Easton (40:44):
Yes, the second book is the story of again
uprooting, of this time a youngboy who is based on my father,
leaving his place of birth,which was Japan, now to Korea,
and eventually they end up goingto Manchuria and that's where
they experienced the end ofWorld War II.
(41:06):
Then they live in North Koreafor a while under the Russian
occupation, and then they escapethat and come to the South
right before the country wasofficially divided along the
38th parallel.
Daniel Koo (41:20):
Wow, that's very dramatic.
Rosa Easton (41:21):
Yes, it's very, very dramatic.
Daniel Koo (41:23):
And I know there's so many families that were split
apart during that division.
Yes, yes, and some people justhappened to be in South Korea at
the time, maybe on a trip, orsometimes it's a temporary kind
of arrangement and the countrygot divided and now you couldn't
leave the country or meet yourfamily.
Rosa Easton (41:41):
Yeah, in the novel the mother and son were able to
flee through the mountains witha guide to make it to the South
before the country wasofficially divided, but they
were treated like North Koreansat that point.
Daniel Koo (41:57):
Right.
Rosa Easton (41:57):
So they had only lived in North Korea for a short
period of time, although that'swhere my grandmother and the
protagonist in White Mulberry isfrom, from the Pyongyang area.
In white mulberry is from fromthe Pyongyang area, but even
though she made it back to NorthKorea, which was her dream,
after she went to Japan and thencame back, it was not the
country she left, and so shemade the decision again to take
(42:21):
her son south.
He was more like 10 or 11 atthe time, again displaced and
uprooted from home and family.
However, that is defined inthis period of time because
people were homeless androotless.
Daniel Koo (42:35):
I imagine there has to be some sort of
intergenerational trauma thatwas experienced.
Do you talk about that in yourbook?
Rosa Easton (42:42):
Not explicitly.
I mean, fiction is aboutshowing, not telling, and
hopefully people see and maybeeven reflect on themselves that
these experiences of priorgenerations stay with you and
it's important to know what theywent through, because that's
(43:04):
the starting point ofunderstanding who you are.
That's the starting point ofunderstanding who you are and
what wounds you may still carryin your genes, in the stories
that you've been told, in howyou feel about certain things
Like you don't even know wherethat kind of inexplicable
longing comes from.
There's a longing for something.
And then, of course, the thirdgeneration, which is my
(43:26):
generation.
We get uprooted too.
We leave Korea and come toAmerica.
So it's three generations ofmovement, and I find that to be
fascinating.
But our family is probably notthe only one who experienced
that.
Daniel Koo (43:42):
I'm sure so many people will read your book and
relate to it a lot.
Rosa Easton (43:46):
Yeah, I hope so Especially all the families in
Los Angeles.
Daniel Koo (43:49):
You know all the Koreans that have moved.
I'm sure they went through avery similar experience, maybe
not exactly the same.
Rosa Easton (43:56):
Yeah.
Daniel Koo (43:57):
So I'm very excited to read your book.
Rosa Easton (43:59):
I'm excited for you to read it.
Daniel Koo (44:00):
I've already pre-ordered it.
Thank, you.
So I'll read it as soon as itcomes out.
Rosa Easton (44:06):
Well, I hope you'll come to one of my launch events
, since they'll be in LA.
Daniel Koo (44:10):
I would love to.
That's amazing.
I'll bring my cameras andeverything and I kind of want to
go over.
What advice would you givepeople to, those who want to
become an author?
I would imagine this to beanyone, so it could be a student
.
It could be someone who is wellinto their career, looking for
(44:32):
a switch or looking to do it inparallel.
Rosa Easton (44:35):
Yeah, I think you can be an author at any point in
your life.
I think if you pursue it at ayoung age, you don't have the
benefit of experience per se,but you can still find your
voice, whatever that uniquevoice is, because you are an
individual.
There are lots of things thatmake up who you are, and finding
(44:58):
what makes you different, whatmakes you unique, and sharing
that and what that means is anauthor's job.
I think, finding it now, atthis stage of my life, I could
(45:21):
rely a lot more on my experienceof being a mother, of having a
career, of reflecting back onrelationships and love.
And when you start younger,your experience is more limited.
But you have a voice, you havea story that's uniquely yours
and finding that, I think, is anauthor's greatest challenge and
joy.
Once you find it.
Daniel Koo (45:36):
After going through the entire process of creating a
book.
To whom would you not recommendthis career?
Is there maybe like anarchetype or a persona that you
would say if you don't likethese things, maybe you're not
stepping into the correct path?
Rosa Easton (45:49):
Yeah, sitting down in your chair for a long period
of time if you don't like that.
It's hard because so much of itis the habit of sitting down
alone and staring at a blankscreen and that could be scary
for a lot of people and it'sself-imposed deadlines for a lot
of people and it's self-imposeddeadlines.
(46:10):
It's finding accountability,like an accountability writer
friend or something that'sreally important because it's a
solitary career.
Daniel Koo (46:18):
Did you have a community to rely on?
Rosa Easton (46:20):
Yeah, so I developed writer friends over
time.
In fact, during COVID when Ireally finished my book was my
writing group and I.
Four of us met every weekduring COVID and it really
helped me finish my novel.
So an author needs to bedisciplined.
(46:41):
I think my legal career helpedthat.
All those years in school andstudying helped.
I think it's a myth thatauthors have spurts or bursts of
inspiration and they'rebrilliant and so they're a
writer.
I think it's a lot of sittingdown and hashing out shitty
first drafts and going backagain and again, even when it's
(47:08):
discouraging.
You get negative feedback oryou feel like you have imposter
syndrome.
Why am I doing this?
But there's a famous quote thatyou know you're a writer if you
don't love sometimes to write,but you love having written and
I think it's that feeling ofhaving written makes you a true
(47:29):
writer.
Daniel Koo (47:30):
I like that.
I try to have that perspectivefor a lot of things in my life,
even working out.
Before you go you're not happyabout it, but afterwards you
feel great.
You feel good.
I experienced this with my.
I've been into running recently.
If I run over 30 minutes, I getthe runner's high and I feel
(47:50):
glee afterwards.
It was quite the experience, um,and I think when you first
start your run, you know it'sgoing to be rough, um, and you,
you know you question everythingabout your life during the 20
minutes that I'm running, um,but afterwards it's's just so
great and I feel great havingdone it, and I feel like it's a
(48:10):
very similar experience that youwent through.
Rosa Easton (48:12):
Yes, I think that's true about a lot of things is
continuity routine, doing it dayafter day.
As Malcolm Gladwell said,10,000 hours is when you feel
like you've put in the time andthe effort to make something
that you're proud of.
Daniel Koo (48:31):
What's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who
may be considering leavingtheir career for a little bit to
become a mother or to become aparent, because I'm sure a lot
of people will struggle withthat decision?
Rosa Easton (48:45):
Yeah, it's a highly personal choice, but I think I
always knew I wanted to havekids.
So when we had them I felt atremendous sense of
responsibility and I think youdo what feels right to you and
your particular circumstance.
And everyone's going to have adifferent approach and a
(49:05):
different decision when it comesto being a parent based on your
financial circumstances, basedon your personality.
Who has more patience betweenyou and your partner and want to
actually raise the children andspend the time, who really
wants to go back to theircareers or have fulfillment in
(49:27):
their careers and it's aconstant adjustment.
One way is not going to be theonly way and that way only.
Family dynamics change all thetime and I think you have to be
ready to pivot and be flexibleabout if you need help in
something.
As a mother, you know you relyon your spouse, or you rely on a
(49:49):
friend, or you rely on aneighbor.
Raising a child is notsomething that one could do
alone.
Really, I think it takes avillage, it takes a community,
but people are willing to do it.
I think asking for help is animportant virtue to being a
mother.
It's important to be able toknow your limitations and ask
(50:14):
for help when you need it.
Daniel Koo (50:15):
Could you tell us a little bit about where your
career is headed?
So I'm imagining from now toDecember you're going to be busy
promoting your book andcelebrating, and I'm sure also
writing your second book, yes,but what's ahead in your career
like far into the future as well?
Rosa Easton (50:31):
Finishing my second book by my August 2025 deadline
will be my immediate path Afterthat.
I think I mentioned to youbefore we started this
conversation that I actuallyrealized I have a third book, so
my agent will.
I haven't really discussed thiswith her yet, but if I were to
write a third book then we haveto go through the process of
(50:53):
finding a publisher for thatbook.
So I imagine that's going totake time and I'll be keeping
the first novel, moving forward,writing the second novel,
thinking about the third noveland living sort of a writerly
life and managing my time as myown time.
I think that's really the giftof being a writer is you can
(51:16):
write in the middle of the nightIf you can't go to sleep.
You could do it in the morningwhen you're fresh.
But it's that dedication andthat discipline that will help
you reach your result, reachyour goal.
My husband joked the other daythat because he's nearing
retirement from his legal careerand he thinks it's ironic that
(51:39):
his career is ending and mine isbeginning.
Daniel Koo (51:42):
It's your time now.
Rosa Easton (51:44):
My season has come, my hung up just passed and I'm
being reborn and I think thatanalogy is a good one too is
that we're never stagnant, andbeing open to possibility and
being curious about yourenvironment, your past, other
(52:04):
people, anything in life beingcurious, I think, is really what
an author truly needs to keepgoing, and whatever it is that
makes them curious.
Daniel Koo (52:16):
To summarize a little bit about what we talked
about today.
One of the most importantthings I think I've learned is
being curious, as you justmentioned, and also being very
patient.
I've realized that before youwent to law school, you've
explored a lot of things.
You've studied the things youwanted to, or you trained in a
new language and you've been aparalegal, so you know where
(52:39):
you're stepping towards.
I think that patience has beena very big virtue in helping you
with this career later on bigvirtue in helping you with this
career later on Also, before youbecame a writer.
I feel like you've done so muchresearch and also not rushing
it and being able to reallyprocess it and understand it so
that you're able to write thesestories a lot better.
(53:00):
So I take those lessons with metoday.
Thank you so much for beinghere and my hope in the future
we'll have you again.
Rosa Easton (53:08):
Thank you, daniel, I really appreciate it.
My hope in the future we'llhave you again.
Thank you, daniel, I reallyappreciate it.
Yes, with my second book andthird book maybe, but you're
doing a phenomenal job with thispodcast and I really appreciate
the opportunity to be invitedhere.
And I'm touched because we havethis connection to Chadwick and
from when you were younger andyou stayed at our home, so I
(53:32):
think trading places like thisis very heartwarming, so I
appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Daniel Koo (53:38):
Thank you.
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