Advertising Executive to Nonprofit Founder - EdAccess Founder (former Viacom SVP,Time Warner VP)

What happens when you trust your gut and step off the expected career path? For Pam Haering, that decision transformed her life and eventually led to her most meaningful work.

Growing up in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Pam was among the "lucky ones" whose parents prioritized education, setting her on a path to Dartmouth College. Initially pursuing pre-law studies based on others' expectations, she felt something crucial was missing during a prestigious law firm internship. "There was a whole side of myself that I didn't feel like I was opening up," she recalls. This pivotal realization led her to trust her instincts and pivot to advertising, where her strategic mind and creative spirit could both thrive.

At DDB Needham, Pam discovered her passion for brand marketing, working with clients like General Mills and Maybelline. Her career accelerated when Time Warner Turner recruited her to pioneer global integrated marketing during cable TV's explosive growth. Later, at Viacom, she built groundbreaking marketing initiatives that revolutionized how media companies worked with advertisers. Throughout these transitions, Pam cultivated relationships with innovative mentors who shaped her approach to leadership.

Motherhood presented another inflection point when her premature twins required her full attention. After stepping back from corporate life, Pam gradually found her way to educational consulting, working with schools serving first-generation students. These experiences ultimately led her to found Ed Access Lab, a nonprofit strengthening organizations that provide educational opportunities to underserved communities.

Pam's story reveals profound wisdom about career development: trust your instincts, intentionally seek mentors, and follow what genuinely lights you up. "Do what you love," she advises. "Stay true to what motivates you, who you are, and the opportunities will come." Most importantly, she demonstrates it's never too late to create something meaningful that brings together all your accumulated skills and passions.

Are you following a career path that truly engages all aspects of who you are? Listen now for inspiration to make your next move with confidence and purpose.

Feel free to leave comments here!

Episode Transcript

Pamela Haering (00:00):
You know some of the things I evaluated some of
these moves based on and this isa really important piece of
advice I always give to peoplemake sure you know who you're
working for, right Like if youhave the opportunity to change
jobs and you know that you canwork for really innovative,
creative, risk-taking, greatmanagers who care about growing.

(00:22):
You take it.
You know, I looked at that hardand it was hard to leave some
situations where I had reallygreat managers cultivating,
helping to cultivate me, and Ihad a chance to go where I felt
like I could continue to learnwith some great mentors in the
space, real innovators.
I mean, the people that weretaking these risks had a lot of,

(00:45):
you know, great experience andso they were very calculated
risks, but they were visionaryand I was able to learn from
them, you know.
And how do they evaluatesomething, how you know, how do
they know that something's goingto work?
It's not just gut right, it'slike what are you really looking
for?
And so, yes, I had a lot ofmentorship.

(01:06):
I had a lot of great mentors,really smart people, really
innovative, all quite young inthese spaces and so very
relatable and very vested in thegrowth of people like me.
That works for them, so I'msuper thankful for that.

Daniel Koo (01:24):
Hey, welcome back to my Perfect Path.
For those of you who are new,I'm your host, daniel Koo, and I
welcome you to season two.
For me, at large, pivotalmoments of my life, such as
applying to new colleges,applying to new jobs or
determining what next careermove is right for me I spent
time researching and findingmentorship to determine what was

(01:44):
the best path for me.
I spent time researching andfinding mentorship to determine
what was the best path for me.
I knew that this struggle wasnot isolated to me.
Everyone struggles with this,simply because we cannot predict
the future.
However, I found something thatis second best to predicting
the future it's learning fromthose ahead of our career and
from those who've seen more andexperienced more.
After all, there are not thatmany problems that have not been

(02:05):
solved yet.
If you've ever felt unsureabout your next career move,
you're in the right place.
I'm excited to continue seasontwo with Pam Haering, founder of
Ed Access Lab and former ViacomSVP.

(02:28):
Today's episode is called my EdAccess Path.
It Is Never Too Late To Create.
Pam built her career throughmajor roles at J Walter Thompson
, time Warner, turner andultimately as SVP at Viacom,
where she pioneered integratedmarketing solutions during cable
TV's explosive growth.
She later founded her nonprofit, ed Access, focused on
educational equity.

(02:49):
What I love about thisconversation is how Pam draws
from decades of mentoring.
She often starts stories withthe words when I talk to kids,
because she's been guidingfirst-generation college
students for a very long time.
In this episode you'll learn howto trust your gut when a career
path doesn't feel right, thepower of intentional networking
to accelerate your growth,strategies for balancing
high-level ambition with familypriorities, and how major life

(03:12):
transitions can actually lead toyour most meaningful work.
Her story shows it's never toolate to create something that
matters.
Hope you enjoy the episode.
Pam, welcome to my Perfect Path.
I'm so excited to have you onthe show.
Your story is not onlyaccomplished but deeply
inspiring from your early yearsgrowing up in Bethlehem,

(03:33):
pennsylvania, to building ahigh-powered global career in
marketing and advertising andnow launching EdAccess to expand
educational opportunities.
I think your path reflectscourage, reinvention and purpose
at every stage of life.
I know our listeners are goingto get so much out of hearing
from how you navigated bigcareer pivots.

(03:55):
You know balancing.
You know ambition with familyand ultimately using your
experience to create meaningfulimpact.
Thank you so much for beinghere.

Pamela Haering (04:05):
Well, thank you.
It's nice to have theopportunity to talk with you,
Daniel.

Daniel Koo (04:08):
Now tell me about what your day-to-day looks like
right now.
What's the most excitingproject that you're working on?

Pamela Haering (04:15):
Oh gosh.
Well, I am working with anon-profit right now and they
are out of Harvard Med Schooland it's a program that's sort
of under their auspices, and ithas been just a pleasure working
with them.
They were really looking forways to thoughtfully grow and

(04:40):
they realized that they werehaving all of these
opportunities come in at thedoor and they weren't sure
exactly how to evaluate them andthey wanted to be much more
strategic about how theyevaluated how they were going to
grow and what projects theywere going to take on, and so
they hired the EdAccess Lab tohelp them think through that.

(05:00):
So they're just a wonderfulclient.
We just enjoy every meeting wehave with them.

Daniel Koo (05:06):
How many schools do you work with?
It seemed like there was a lotof partners.

Pamela Haering (05:10):
Yeah, in fact, sometimes it'll be a school,
sometimes it will be a nonprofitorganization.
In fact, most commonly it'll bea nonprofit education
organization that works outsideof public schools.
They take students intoprograms that run on the

(05:31):
weekends and in the summer andthey're sort of enrichment
programs that help prepare themfor higher education, and they
find them typically in middleschool, and these are kids that
are really talented andself-motivated, and these
programs typically are fee-freenot always, but often and so it

(05:53):
allows students from all typesof backgrounds to engage and get
this kind of enrichmentparticularly, though, from
first-gen low-income communities, from first-gen low-income
communities and it helps themkind of forge a pathway toward
higher education orpost-secondary opportunities.
And those are typically theorganizations that we work with.

Daniel Koo (06:14):
What's the impact that your work is able to give
to these students?

Pamela Haering (06:21):
And.

Daniel Koo (06:21):
I just want to know the scale of your work and the
number of people that you canpotentially impact with your
position.

Pamela Haering (06:29):
Yeah, it's a great question and it's one of
the things that we're trying tofind ways to measure.
Because when you do the type ofwork that we do, which is
typically strategic, and you'reworking with the organization
that directly influences thechild, so we don't directly work
with the students they do.
But the way that we have impactis we thoughtfully help them

(06:52):
think about ways to grow, toreach more students through
scaling, and that can look a lotof different ways.
I mean it can look like goingto a different country, a
different state, or it can looklike deepening programs in the
area that they're currently in,and so the way it really impacts

(07:12):
students is the organization isfortified, it's stronger, you
know, it's more thoughtful abouthow it's spending its money and
its resources, and so they caneffectively affect more students
.
The biggest worry the gap that Ifound when I, you know, when I
was originally in my firstprogram at Harvard, I did some

(07:34):
research in this space to reallyfind out where the gaps were
and why it was that studentswere fewer.
Students were going to hirefrom first-gen low-income, you
know backgrounds were going at alower rate into higher
education.
Some of it was due to thepandemic.
This was all sort of happeningduring the pandemic, and a lot

(07:56):
of these students had to dropout and find work that would pay
them, so they would drop awayfrom school, and school was just
not on the docket for thembecause they were trying to keep
their families afloat.
And so what we were trying todo was, you know, see what it
would take to fortifyorganizations that were doing
this work so that they wouldn'tbe as vulnerable, because it

(08:20):
takes a lot of money to do thiswork and it takes very dedicated
benefactors to support theseorganizations typically, and so
they get a lot of privatefundings from family foundations
and such.
But if you had a primary funderwho might've been, you know,
highly engaged, drop away, thenthat organization could be in

(08:43):
trouble and they might have toshutter their organization, and
that was what was bothering me.
That means that fewer kids getaccess to these resources, fewer
kids are able to find theirpathway to higher education or
post-secondary employment, andso I wanted to make sure that
wasn't happening, and our focusis primarily with smaller and
medium-sized organizations thatI described earlier, because

(09:07):
they were the most vulnerable,and so fortifying them through
this type of work and making itaffordable for them.
They don't have people on stafftypically that can help them
with a communications plan or adevelopment plan.
They don't have a developmentperson, they don't have a
strategic planner, and theycan't afford them.
They're small nonprofits, andso to go outside is typically

(09:31):
very, very expensive, and so toget a high-profile consultancy
engaged can be upwards of a halfa million dollars to do that,
and these organizations are justnot large enough to do that.
So the idea of the EdAccess Labwas to really create an

(09:51):
organization that would go innot even under market, but
almost on a sliding scale and attimes for free if needed, to
actually make theseorganizations do the work they
need to do to fortify and grow.

Daniel Koo (10:05):
Yeah, I think the impact that you have with these
vulnerable populations areamazing and I really want to dig
into how you got to thisposition and to be able to serve
this population and also toknow how you came up with this
idea and what your motivationsare for for helping these people

(10:26):
.
I think you know, when we lookat our jobs, we often struggle
with meaning.
You know, in the beginning,obviously people jump into
corporate jobs and whatnot they,you know, grind and grind and
grind but, at the end of the day, it's like who are we helping,
right?
So I really want to kind of diginto that with you and to find

(10:50):
meaning and you know how we canhave more impact in our lives,
like really true, positive, goodimpact.
So what I want to ask you isdid you always envision this
kind of work coming into yourcareer, and or did you not
expect this at all?

Pamela Haering (11:06):
Well, I wanted to make sure it was always a
part of my life.
So I don't know if you want meto get into it now or later, but
I had quite a journey to thisplace and I grew up in Bethlehem
, pennsylvania.
It was a thriving steel townwhen I was a child and it kind

(11:26):
of shut down in the mid-80s.
But I was one of the lucky onesmy brother as well.
Because of my parents they werevery focused on education, and
so my brother and I were able toget out and find a pathway to
just incredible schools, andthat was very unusual at the

(11:50):
time.
That didn't happen often.
Many of my classmates some ofthem didn't go on to any kind of
higher education.
Some of them started workingright away, they went into the
military, and so we feel veryfortunate that our parents
really put up a high baracademically for us and
encouraged us to shoot high andto do everything we could to go

(12:15):
to the best school that we couldget into.
And so, because we were sort ofthe lucky ones, I knew that I
always wanted it to be a part ofmy world too.
If it's a hobby or if it's amain career, it started as a
sort of something that I did onthe side, but I've always
mentored first-gen low-incomestudents starting right out of

(12:36):
college, because I graduated Iwent into the advertising
industry, I was living andworking in Chicago, illinois,
and I had the opportunitythrough a program through
Dartmouth College.
They actually had communitiesthere that they worked with and
I was able to mentor studentswhile I was there and that has
always been a big piece of mywork.

(12:57):
In fact, I work with first-genstudents also at Dartmouth
College now.
So juniors, sophomores, juniorsand seniors mostly women who
are trying to think about theirfutures and where they're going,
and they're looking for peoplewho have walked those roads and
also that understand wherethey've come from and what it

(13:18):
means to walk those roads.
It's not easy and it can take along time, so I wanted to
always have that be a part of mylife and it started with
mentoring and it moved fromthere into an opportunity that I
had later in my life kind ofwhile I was still working in my

(13:38):
kind of corporate world to workwith a school in Southern
California that had a very largefirst-gen population as a part
of its composition.

Daniel Koo (13:52):
Actually, yeah.
So before we go into that,let's talk about the episode
title first, my Ed Access Path.
It Is Never Too Late to Create.
Yes, can you share why thatname fits your story?

Pamela Haering (14:04):
Yes, yes, because I truly believe that I
found my calling.
I mean, I had just a wonderfulcareer trajectory and I think I
am thankful for every minute andevery experience I had getting
to here.
But this is my true lifecalling is to use the skills

(14:28):
that I've acquired along the wayto do the work that I care most
about, which is serving thesefirst-gen low-income populations
and ensuring they have thechance that I had to actually
experience higher education.
A lot of them that I've workedwith over the years believe that

(14:51):
they can't do it.
They have familyaccountabilities, there are
financial reasons why not?
They don't have role modelsthat can help them, and so I
wanted to be that role model.
But I feel like it's never toolate to create is so appropriate
for me because, you know, withmy partners, I've created this

(15:12):
nonprofit that really does thework that I care more about than
anything right now in the world, and I'm just really blessed to
be able to do this work in thisway.

Daniel Koo (15:22):
So for context, from a high level, could you
describe your experiences in,maybe, stages of life, so what
are kind of like the bigconceptual, like sections of
life that you would organizeyour experiences in?

Pamela Haering (15:38):
Well, probably, obviously childhood, college,
post-college, like earlyemployment.
So my first couple of jobs inadvertising and marketing.
Then I moved into the mediaindustry, which was a pivotal.
It was a change, it was relatedbut it was a change, and

(15:59):
motherhood was a big pivot forme.
And balancing my careeraspirations with that and then
returning to school as a moremature woman, having a chance to
go back in one, not one, buttwo programs and ending up

(16:19):
getting my master's and thenlaunching.
Lastly, launching the Ed AccessLab, which is the nonprofit.

Daniel Koo (16:27):
So, yeah, I want to get to how you got to EdAccess,
I think, which is, you know,kind of like the finale or kind
of like the climax of the story.
And if we go into your earlyyears, can you tell me about,
maybe, your parents and earlyenvironment and how that shaped
your drive and priorities?

Pamela Haering (16:49):
Yes, well, I touched a little bit on that so
I won't go too deep into theearly early years.
But I, you know, as I said, Igrew up in Bethlehem,
pennsylvania.
I had an older brother, so itwas just the four of us my
parents and my brother and I.
And you know, my father was thefirst in his family to ever go
to college and it had a profoundimpact on him.

(17:11):
And because my mother neverwent to college and completed it
she started but never completedit that had a profound impact
on her.
That had a profound impact onher both creating an environment

(17:49):
that know, focused and generouswith us in making this
opportunity available.
Most kids don't have thatopportunity and my brother and I
are both really thankful for it.

Daniel Koo (17:59):
So you mentioned that you know they supported
your education.
What kind of form did that comein?
So was that you know payingsupported your education?
What kind of form did that comein?
So was that you know paying fortutors or like, was it
encouragement or was that, Idon't know, giving you ideas on
what to work on.

Pamela Haering (18:14):
Yeah, first there was just this expectation
that we were going to collegelike just for the parents to
have that expectation for theirchildren is not always the case.
I work with so many familiesand kids that that's not the
case In fact it's the oppositeis that you'll get a job and
you'll help the family, and sothey did whatever we needed in

(18:37):
order to make that possible.
I can remember my dad sayingyou know, you just focus on
getting into the best school youcan get into and we'll make
sure we help to make that happen.
We'll do everything we can tohelp to make that happen.
And it wasn't until much laterin my life that I realized the

(18:58):
great sacrifice they made tomake that possible for us.
So we're very my brother and Iare very appreciative for that.

Daniel Koo (19:06):
Yeah, I think that kind of encouragement, of that
kind of expectation, can really,you know, change how you look
at yourself as well, and I'msure that was a huge
encouragement.

Pamela Haering (19:16):
Yeah.

Daniel Koo (19:17):
You know I can.
I can see similar things.
You know my parents were alwaysvery education focused.
You know they supported me with.
You know tutoring and privateeducation as well and you know
it really sets a goodexpectation for myself and keeps
like a very high standard ofwhat I need to aspire to.
Sometimes it can be a littlebit of pressure but you know it

(19:39):
ultimately like a very goodthing where you know you have
high expectations for yourselfand it seems like you know that
belief in you and you know thatexpectation of going to college
really worked because you endedup going to a fantastic school
Dartmouth and your brother aswell going to Princeton.
What was your experience likethere?
I know you mentioned a littlebit about potentially going into

(20:01):
law and experimenting and kindof trying things out there, but
what was, you know, your mainfocus?
What did you want to achieveduring your college years?

Pamela Haering (20:12):
It's funny.
I went off to college not beingso very clear and I can also
remember my parents saying youknow, based on what I see you,
you know thriving, you knowwhere I see you thriving.
You know you might be a goodlawyer, you know you like to,
you know you like to write, youlike to argue, like maybe you

(20:37):
would like to do that, and thatkind of just stuck with me.
You know I find this true ofmany young people that I work
with too that they're not alwaysso sure you know when you have,
when you're, when you have someskills that you know, how do
you choose which one to reallycapitalize upon.
You know it's hard, and, and sothat was what stuck with me,

(21:01):
and and I didn't, I have to say,at 18, 19, I didn't question it
a whole lot, I just kind ofdove in and I said you know what
, this will be my major, thiswill be my minor, and, um, I'll
see how it goes.
And the truth was that thatmajor and that minor were not
perfect for me.

(21:22):
You know what I mean.
They were interesting at times,but they did not fuel my
curiosity the way I had hopedthey would, and that was a deep
learning, like a moment.
That was a pivot point for me,where when I actually took on,

(21:42):
you know, an internship at afabulous firm with a career that
I thought I wanted you know, aninternship at a fabulous firm
with a career that I thought Iwanted you know for a good part
of my young life and I realizedthat wasn't it.
That wasn't it.
There was as good as it was.
There was so much missing.
There was a whole side ofmyself that I didn't feel like I
was opening up.
I had realized along the waythat I could see things in a
creative way, that I was, youknow, very.

(22:03):
You know I was strategic attimes.
I had this right and left braingoing on.
That's why law did make senseon some level, but this whole
other part of me was not beingfed and that's what led me to
kind of put the brakes on thatand it was terrifying.
I remember being really scaredto say, my God, I'm, like you
know, almost through my collegeexperience and I can't change my

(22:28):
major now.

Daniel Koo (22:29):
It's like what am I going to?

Pamela Haering (22:30):
do, and so I threw, as a last resort I threw
myself into corporate recruitingand I believe they still do
this on campuses where theybring top you know banks and law
firms and you know corporationsand consultancies.
They bring them all up tocampus and they get kind of
first dibs on students early.

(22:52):
They get to interview studentsand pick who they want way
before the cycle begins.

Daniel Koo (22:58):
Before we go into your corporate recruiting, what
were some of the things thatkind of pushed you over the edge
on not pursuing a law career?
So what were kind of like thereally telltale signs for you
that this is not what I want todo?
And I know you mentioned, youknow like the creative aspect of
it.

(23:18):
But I'm imagining there maybeare some like certain scenarios
or there's a point, maybe likean interaction with someone,
where you're thinking, oh, thisis not going to be something I
want to do.

Pamela Haering (23:31):
You know, interpreting the law is well, I
don't want to.
How do I say it?
I had hoped it would besomething that would really
light me up and that didn't meup and and that didn't the the
research that I was doing was Ialways loved learning, but it it
didn't.
I didn't feel it.

(23:51):
You know, I always tell kidswhen they go to a campus, right,
and they're looking at a schooland they're so nervous and
they're looking at eight or ten,whatever it is, and and I'll
say, you're just just going toknow, you're going to know,
you're going to feel it in yourgut, you're going to walk on
that campus, you're going tomeet the kids that are there,
you're going to sit in a classand you're going to know, and

(24:12):
you're not going to have a lotof second doubts about that.
And it's so often the way ithappens.
Didn't you know that what itwould have taken to get to a
level that would have beenactually super interesting,

(24:34):
would have taken years to becomea partner as a woman, would
have been a very long and hardroad, and it, it it could have
compromised my vision forwanting to have a work-life
balance, like I have a familyand and so all of those things.
It was just like I wasn'tfeeling it.
I didn't see anything that Iwas experiencing that made me

(24:57):
feel it, and so it was apersonal choice.
You know, it was and and it was.
I just remember being honestly,when I use the word terrified,
that's what I felt, because Ididn't have a safety net.
I wasn't going back toBethlehem after having
experienced this world and andthe world through Dartmouth,
like I.
I was off term, you know I was.
I was working in, you know,major organizations, I was

(25:20):
working for state government, Ihad traveled abroad, I had lived
with families abroad.
It was amazing.
So I wasn't going back and so Iwas kind of terrified.
What would the future hold?
I'm not really sure.
So that was the first pivotpoint.

Daniel Koo (25:34):
So it seems like you use your gut feeling a lot, so
you really listen to yourselfand your feelings and kind of
like the overall situation, kindof experience and you know,
with the outlook of work-lifebalance and having a family like
it's.
You know it's.
It's a very intentionaldecision that you had to make.

Pamela Haering (25:54):
You know, if someone would have said that
it's it was too early to makethat decision.
I should have gone to lawschool and should have seen, but
it was a three-year investmentand it was going to be hard for
me to make that investment andso I better be sure.
And I wasn't.
So I decided I needed some morelife experience to figure out,

(26:16):
you know, if it was that or not,that or something else.

Daniel Koo (26:20):
It seems like you did exactly that, though, when
you went into corporaterecruiting, and now you kind of
dove into kind of a differentcareer, and can you share with
us a little bit about what thatkind of new career was like and
why you ended up choosing that?

Pamela Haering (26:35):
Yeah, something inside of me told me that I was
going to really love marketing.
I knew some people in that thathad gone into that realm and I
had talked to them about it andit really married sort of the
strategic, the business sidewith the creative side.
And so that's where I focusedmy efforts in corporate

(26:56):
recruiting and I was reallylucky that, you know, dartmouth
had a bunch of, you know theyhad P&G coming up, they had, you
know, j Walter Thompson.
They had so many DDV Needhamwas coming up and so they had
amazing from all over the UnitedStates, amazing kind of global
brands coming up to try to findtalent early.
And so I focused on marketing.

(27:21):
There were a lot of differentopportunities either on the
brand management side, on theadvertising side, and I was
lucky enough to have gottenoffers at two advertising
agencies, one in New York andone in Chicago.
And that was a hard decision,you know.
But I thought Chicago wouldfeel a little bit better for me,
coming from such a kind of asmaller town environment,

(27:43):
smaller school in New Hampshire,right, and I thought you know,
if I'm going to experience thecity, I don't know if I'm ready
for New York, living with fivewomen in some small place, I
thought that maybe Chicago wouldbe great and it was.
And it was and I took a jobwith DDB Needham.

(28:04):
So Needham Harper and Steerswas merging with DDB out of New
York and I got an offer at theNew York office of DDB and
Neenah Harper and Steers inChicago, which was great, and so
it felt right from the get-go.

(28:24):
The moment that I started itfelt right.
The community that I wasworking in, the type of work I
was doing, I was beingchallenged and experiencing
brand new things.
Yet they had a training programwhich was great for their new
hires and so that was reallyimportant, I think, in helping

(28:45):
to get me grounded in thatindustry, because it was so new.
But it was fantastic from thestart.
I loved it, it was a highlight.

Daniel Koo (28:56):
What were some of your expectations going into
advertising and what were somethings that surprised you?
And I think in the context ofmaybe someone potentially
looking into going into thisadvertising field, you know what
are some things they shouldknow about.

Pamela Haering (29:12):
You know, advertising seems so glamorous
from the outside you know yousee these ads and how cool, and
you know you have celebritiesand these ads and it seems so
glamorous from the outside andthere is that edge of it too.
But really, and there is thatedge of it too, but really I was
on the account management sideof it.
I worked with creative teamsand research teams and media

(29:34):
buyers, but I was therecoordinating and integrating on
behalf of a client, so I wasworking hand in hand with a
client.
My first client was GeneralMills.
My second client was Maybelline.
You know cosmetics, and so Ilearned a lot about brand
marketing because we werehelping them do the competitive

(29:57):
analyses.
You know the cost analyses.
We were looking at packaging,we were developing packaging for
them.
Everything that they were doingwe were doing hand-in-hand with
them, truly as a partner.
And so what would be surprisingis that it's business Like.
My piece of it was business, youknow, and I love that.
That really spoke to me.
But at the same time, myfavorite part of that job was

(30:20):
writing a creative brief andtaking it to the creative team
and working with the creativeteam to generate something that
was on strategy.
You know what the clientexpected but that the consumer
had never seen before.
You know that was reallyinnovative and so they did most
of that work, but without theother side, you know, to balance

(30:43):
out.
You know those great ideas.
So it was a real partnership andI loved that about it.
So I think the biggest surpriseis that it's business, but
there was also this piece of itthat was a lot of fun.
I went to Los Angeles for thefirst time on a product shoot or
on a commercial shoot, and justreally seeing how that end of

(31:07):
it worked was that was some ofit was glamour, some of it was
you know, long and hard, longhours, hard, client unhappy.
You're there making the clienthappy.
You know making changes.
The creatives don't want tohear from you, but you have to
make this change.
So you know, I developed a lotof people skills, developed a
lot of strategic skills and Ireally my creative side, and so

(31:30):
it was.
It was a perfect fit for me.
In fact it was.
It was hard to leave.

Daniel Koo (31:34):
It was hard to leave it yeah, I think, um, you know,
being part of a very biginitiative like that, with many
moving parts and I, you know itsounds really fun.
I think I can kind of imagine,or if I, if I imagine what that
would have looked like.
You know, you're jugglingmultiple things, you have photo
shoots, you have video shootsgoing on and you're working with

(31:56):
so many talent.
I think that would be reallyfun.
But for you back then, what didsuccess look for you and what
was going through your mind for,like, long-term planning?
Did you feel like you wanted tostay there?
Were you thinking of, justmaybe like job hopping?
I know that's a thing.

Pamela Haering (32:16):
Yeah, what, it wasn't a big thing in in my time
and space.
A lot of people would stay inan industry for a very long time
and just grow within thatindustry.
And I grew within that industryfor a long time and I and I
loved it.
I love the more.
It's funny, it's like the moreresponsibility you got, the more

(32:39):
exciting it was, the moreexposure you got and then but
the higher the stakes and so itwas very even at the lower
levels.
You know everybody keeping ahigh profile client like that
satisfied, happy, you know, withthe work and and it's all under

(33:00):
a very tight timetablesomething might happen in the
industry and they need torespond and they need an ad like
and so you're in the middle ofa huge campaign with five
pullouts and you got to stopthat and you got to shift and
it's really there's a lot ofpressure that came with that.
I never aspired to leaveadvertising actually and I would

(33:22):
not have left had I not gottena call from a headhunter and
that's usually how it happened.
I was one of those reallyfortunate people that usually
left their job a lot and so Imade a shift out of advertising
into the media industry becauseI had worked on multiple global

(33:44):
brands and they needed somebodyto run global ad sales for them
and it was Time Warner Turner atthe time.
So it was like CNN and CartoonNetwork and all the Turner
brands Time Warner brands aswell.
So they needed somebody to work, based in the US but

(34:06):
internationally, for them, andso I had teams in like eight
different countries and I wasbased in the US but I was mostly
abroad during those years andit was that was so exciting.
The growth trajectory that thatpromised me was why I left
advertising, because I was goingto be growing so quickly and on

(34:28):
a global scale and I couldlearn so much that that's why I
made the shift, and I knew Icould parlay the valuable things
that I had learned in my firstcouple of jobs and I could
leverage them to really make adifference in this space, and it
just seemed like a great fitand a great growth opportunity
for me.

Daniel Koo (34:46):
So for that headhunter to find you what is
something that caught their eye,what was the most attractive
piece from your career inadvertising?
That they would come find youand to bring you to this new
company to work on a biggerscale.

Pamela Haering (35:04):
I'm not exactly sure their methodology, but they
were given a profile of thetype of person and they
typically call around inadjacent industries.
You know who is at this levelcan do this, has the skill set
really, you know stands out forthese qualities.
You know is what is creative,or is people focused or super

(35:29):
strategic, or you know all thosethings or not.
You know, like they hadwhatever they wanted to.
You know and, and so I think itcame through, probably
eventually, word of mouth, likewho they knew from calling
around and you know, looking atprofiles of of different people
that might be appropriate forthat role.

Daniel Koo (35:47):
Okay, so now you're kind of diving into this new
industry in the media industry.
Was it more or less similarkind of work that you did, or is
it?
Was it something that wascompletely new, building off of
the stuff that you worked onbefore?

Pamela Haering (36:02):
It was.
It was similar in some ways.
It was creative.
It was about the numbers, youknow, ratings, budgets, it was
about all of those things.
It was similar in that I wasmanaging people again, which I
love to do, love to work withdifferent kinds of people and

(36:23):
help them grow, and so that wassimilar.
But what was different was thatI was working exclusively in a
global marketplace, in markets,you know, in cable, and cable in
the 80s and 90s was justbursting onto the scene and you
weren't even born yet, probably,but it was just bursting onto

(36:44):
the scene and it was run by avery young group of executives,
very creative, very visionary,very entrepreneurial environment
.
There were no set ways of doingthings and often you were sent
off to just figure it out, justdo it.

(37:04):
We need to get this done.
And what I was supposed tofigure out was how to sell media
.
You know how to market mediainternationally in very diverse
marketplaces Japan and in SouthAmerica and you know, going to

(37:25):
Germany and Paris, throughoutEurope and all those markets
were nothing was the same aboutthem and doing it without
ratings.
So at that time there were nointernational rating points,
which is how you would tellpeople are watching your show
Right.
And so what I ended up doing wasI started developing these
consumer.
I was using my consumermarketing experience and started

(37:47):
with the consumer you know ofof a certain brand.
And and I said, you know, if wecreate a platform that is
delivered through our media,through, we can run it across
Cartoon Network and it can be on, you know, turner Classic
Movies.
It can be on, you know, cnn andit will show up in different
ways because you have this verybroad target marketplace.
Why don't we do that?

(38:07):
And instead of spending somemoney with other cable networks,
spend it all with us and we'llcreate something that's really
integrated and we'll run rightthrough all the assets of this.
You know be in Time magazine,it'll be, you know, all assets
of the organization.
And so that idea to work inthat way came from a senior
executive at Time Warner Turnerat the time, and he and because

(38:32):
I was doing that anywayinternationally he was looking
at it on, you know, I was doingthat in the international
markets.
He's like we got to do that inthe United States.
Right, like, how are you all ofa sudden, people are buying this
media because it had all thisstuff attached to it and it it
looked really interesting and itwas making their dollar go
further and their consumers buytheir products.
So we created this groupinternally on a globe.

(38:55):
It was a global is calledTurner Global Marketing
Solutions Group, and so westarted working with across the
globe in this way in the UnitedStates as well as
internationally, and I joinedthat group and so it was really
amazing to see the differencethat integrated marketing could
make for a client where theywere spending their money

(39:18):
disparately across you know, I'mgoing to buy a little ESPN.
I'm going to buy a little.
You know, cbs, I'm going to buya little NBC and you know, this
will we'll, this will, we'llput this together, and their
internal people would put thattogether for them.
But it wasn't against a clientdriven, like their client driven
marketing platform.
And with that it made so muchmore sense why people would see

(39:41):
it one place and it would playthe same way and across you know
the aisle that on you knowanother property of Time Warner,
turner.
And so, anyway, we startedhaving success selling this way
and it was it's never been donebefore in the media marketplace
never.
And CBS noticed it.

(40:01):
And CBS is like wait a second.
And so I got a call from thehead of sales at CBS and they
said we'd like you to come dothis at CBS.
And I said you know we're justgetting started, you know I'm
not sure.
And we had this whole back andforth and eventually he said I

(40:22):
want you to create it, I wantyou to run it and create and run
the whole thing.
So I found a partner, they founda partner, they found a partner
I think they put us together,another woman and we ended up
running that division at CBS.
It became Viacom shortly afterwe joined.
So a year after we starteddoing the work at CBS, cbs

(40:43):
merged with Viacom and that justwas like the best news for us,
because all of the brands thatwe could pull in to play against
these ideas we were creating,just like tripled, you know we
could, just there were so manymore and it was in every single
space in the media marketplace.
So it was print and out of homeand cable and network and radio

(41:05):
.
It was amazing.

Daniel Koo (41:06):
I can definitely see your passion, you know in this,
in this space, and your work,and I think it's amazing what
you were able to achieve.
I want to know, you know, ifyou had, you know, obviously you
were able to orchestrate this.
You know, with the resourcesthat you had, what were some of
the kind of you know, if you hadany mentorship or if you had

(41:27):
any resources that you know youfound very useful in achieving
this and being able toorchestrate this.
What are some things you reliedon at this point?

Pamela Haering (41:38):
Well, some of the things I evaluated some of
these moves based on and this isa really important piece of
advice I always give to peoplemake sure you know who you're
working for.
It was good to people.
Make sure you know who you'reworking for, right like if you
have the opportunity to changejobs and you know that you can
work for really innovative,creative, risk-taking, great
managers who care about growing,you take it, you know, and so I

(42:03):
was lucky that you know Ilooked at that hard and it was
hard to leave some situationswhere I had really great
managers cultivating, helping tocultivate me, and I had a
chance to go where I felt like Icould continue to learn with
some great mentors in the space,real innovators, I mean.

(42:23):
When I was doing this work, asI said, cable was just like what
, what's that, where is that andhow does that work and how do I
get me some?
It was really funny.
And so the people that weretaking these risks had a lot of
great experience, and so theywere very calculated risks, but

(42:44):
they were visionary and I wasable to learn from them.
And how do they evaluatesomething?
How, you know, how do they knowthat something's going to work?
It's not, it's not just gutright, it's.
It's like what are you reallylooking for?
And and doing a merger orfinding this, you know, working
with this client or whatever itwas at the time, and and so, yes

(43:05):
, I had a lot of mentorship.
I had a lot of mentorship.
I had a lot of great mentors,really smart people, really
innovative, innovative, allquite young, you know, in these
spaces and so very relatable andvery vested in the growth of
people like me.
That works for them.
So I'm super thankful for that.

Daniel Koo (43:23):
If you have any advice around how to find those
kinds of mentors like did youfind them externally?
Did you find them within yourcompany?
Do you have any advice on howto find those kinds of mentors
Like did you find themexternally?
Did you find them within yourcompany?
Do you have any advice on howto find those mentors?

Pamela Haering (43:34):
Yeah, ear to the ground, you really have to be
intentional about the way thatyou want to curate your career.
I think you know it would havebeen easy to just go okay, a new
opportunity, I'll go, you know.
But I was always thinking aboutthat person that was
interviewing me and I wouldalways ask can I meet some other

(43:56):
people on the team?
I'd love to.
I'll come back in.
You know, I'd love to meet someother people on the team.
In this position, this position,I'd like to meet the people I'm
going to be managing and soreally kind of taking the time
with the process was key.
Also, ear to the ground, likeyou know in an industry who is
at the top of their game, youknow, like, who is a great
manager, great at cultivatingpeople.

(44:19):
You know really good at thework that they do and for what
reasons.
And so really having an ear tothe ground and not being afraid
to step into hey, can I, can wehave coffee?
Can I?
I'll bring coffee to you.
Can I meet you in your officefor 20 minutes?
I I'd really love that,especially once you're in an

(44:39):
organization, spreading out inthat organization, and I have
daughters who are just in thisspace and I'm like who are you
talking?
To Make sure you're networkingwith people, because that's how
you'll never you don't know whatyou're going to hear who you're
going to meet or who's going toinspire you, who they know, you
know, and so really keeping anear to the ground, really being

(44:59):
kind of externally facing interms of meeting people outside
of your little group and nomatter how busy you're getting,
like make the time and then youknow, just really looking.
You know, at that time we hadthese industry magazines.
Now they're all digital, butyou know who's doing what like.
Who am I always reading about,you know, and what are they
doing and are they a good person?

(45:21):
You know, are they?
Are they a good manager?
And and just trying to find outabout them.
And so that was a lot of it isreally being intentional about
how you're learning, about youknow what's available to you in
the industry, who is worthworking for and who is not so
good to work for.
So you know, it's really a lotof not being afraid to step up

(45:45):
into those conversations.
You feel like man, I'm 23.
Like, should I really be askingthe division head?
I got to be kind of ridden thatway of like.
I love that, like any kid whocomes to me and says I really
want to.
I love that and and I thinkmost are very honored to be
asked for their opinion or theirinsights and they want to

(46:08):
foster the next generation ofyou know great leaders and I
think most would welcome that.
So never be afraid you'd besurprised.
They'll probably ask you outfor coffee for the second one
you know, because they were sointerested in what, who you are
and what you want to do oh,that's fantastic advice.

Daniel Koo (46:25):
Um, you know I I'm looking back now and like how
many people that I could havetalked to that I haven't you
know, I know.
I know that, you know I'mtrying hard really right now to,
you know, talk to everyone Ican, but you know, back in
college days or maybe just outof college it was, it's very
intimidating you know and youdon't know what to talk about

(46:47):
and you don't know if they evenwant to talk to you.

Pamela Haering (46:50):
But it seems like, from your experience,
people love helping each otherand as long as you're looking at
the right mentors, they'regoing to be very open to helping
you, surprisingly within yourfriend groups you know as young

(47:11):
executives who they may have metalong the way, or who adults or
professors or family membersknow, and just never be afraid
to say, hey, do you think theytalk to me and I'm sure you're
going to get back?
Yeah, they'd love to and I'llput you in touch tomorrow.
So, yeah, I think that's it'sreally important and I think
it's the hardest thing sometimesfor young people to do.

Daniel Koo (47:30):
At least, that's what I'm noticing more about

(47:50):
like how do you maintain acareer while being a parent,
while being a mother.
I think that kind of advice isinvaluable to people who are
wondering if they can even dothat.
You know, does the math workout?
Do you have enough time?
So, do you have any insightsinto being a parent and trying
to maintain a career?

Pamela Haering (48:07):
I have so many insights.
This is like a hot button forme.
Because, my life the way ithappened.
For me, it was a choice.
I had twins.

Daniel Koo (48:18):
I had twins, I see.

Pamela Haering (48:21):
So they came into the world with a bang and
they were little and prematureand they needed a lot of
attention and so I needed tostop working.
And it was right.
I was probably 36 years, 37years old when I had them.

(48:41):
So I was an older mom, I had agreat career and I had.
I took a lot of pride in thefact that and comfort in the
fact that you know I had hadthese opportunities and I had
done these things and that wasawesome.
You know, that was really great, that I had done these things
and that I could think aboutsitting, settling down and

(49:02):
having a family.
But I have to tell you I wasn'tnecessarily ready.
As much as I wanted thesechildren like more than anything
, and it was such a gift to havethem I wasn't necessarily ready
to give up the other end of it.
But because they needed so muchat that time, I had to leave my
job, this job that you'rehearing, that I love so much.

(49:23):
And that was the final job atViacom, when I was running that
division, and luckily my partnercould take over that division
because she thought my leavingwas going to be temporary, and
so did I, and she would tell ourclients, you know, oh, she's
coming back, she's coming back,you know, and she kept running
hard and um, and she kept that,that division going for a long,

(49:46):
long time but, um, I, I stoppedtotally.
So it was like going from ahundred miles an hour every day
on four planes a week toliterally like no sleep.
You know, babies have needs, youknow, and that was hard and um,
and so I didn't necessarilychoose for it to happen the way

(50:07):
that it did, but I, I chose tohave a family and and that's
what it required and I was allin right, and so I stopped
working for two years, um, untilthey started taking this really
long afternoon nap and and Istarted, I, some people that I
have worked with at time, warnerWarner they asked me if I

(50:32):
wanted to join them indeveloping this idea that they
had, and so it was my first kindof entrepreneurship gig.
I had done entrepreneurship LikeI had started Divisions Insight
, but I had never done anythingexternally.
And we started this greatlittle company that was all
about creating hard to access,exceptional experiences for

(50:53):
groups of women, because wecould see this dynamic of, you
know, women really needing womenand the role that that played,
and not just to have a glass ofwine together, but to do
something, to learn somethingyou know and and to have access
to things they wouldn't normallybe able to access.
And it was.
That was a great experience, butthat was my first
entrepreneurship and I did itwhen the babies were napping,

(51:16):
because my husband had a jobthat was very demanding and took
him out of the state often andhe was traveling a lot, and so I
did that.
But as that was happening, Igot an opportunity to take on a
consulting gig.
So I was asked to help be themarketing person for an

(51:38):
independent school that waslaunching in Southern California
in the early 2000s and it wasan unusual school because it was
focused on.
This is where my interest inmentoring comes back into play.
It was focused on making surethat there was a truly
integrated, culturally,socioeconomically, a truly

(52:00):
integrated school that pulledfrom like 72 different zip codes
around Los Angeles that mightbe an exaggeration, but almost
every zip code and they had setaside an endowment to make sure
that those students who couldn'tafford to go would always be
able to attend this privateschool and have this

(52:21):
life-changing experience.
And as a part of the marketing,you know, and trying to
understand.
So first we externally did alot of external marketing.
You know the school tounderstand, so first we
externally did a lot of externalmarketing.
You know the school has arrived, it's different than anything
you've ever seen and it launchedand is still in, you know,
still thriving.
They asked me to do someinternal research and I was able

(52:42):
to work with the first genfamilies to make sure that they
were getting everything theywanted to get out of this
experience and that it wasworking for them.
And so, sitting with thesefamilies and learning what this
opportunity meant to theirfamilies, many of them were not
from the United States, many ofthem didn't understand the
school system here, but theyknew it was good and they wanted
their kids in it, you know, andthe appreciation and the

(53:06):
life-changing experiences thatthey had were probably one of
the most moving experiences ofmy life.
You know, to have the chance totalk to them.
Some of them be able to havethe honor of going into their
homes and meeting these familiesand they would talk about how
it changed the way that they youknow they were reading books
and book clubs now and theychanged the way that they ate

(53:27):
and because their child went tothe school and came home with
these ideas and then it waschanging the family.
And now the family, like thekids in the family who never
thought they would go to college, are thinking wow, you showed
me that I can go to college likeI, this is a possibility for me
.
So the cousins were going tocollege and then they come back
and talk to the community.
Then the whole community wasuplifted, like just knowing that

(53:47):
it's possible, right.
So that was that was whatflipped on this light for me.
That was like I have to getinvolved.
I had to do more of this work,like, and I have to.
And I supported that school.
I worked with that school indifferent capacities for 11
years and helped them with theirstrategic plans, helped them
with their marketing plans, like, did everything for the school.

(54:08):
Yeah, and it was just amazingthe outputs that they had, the
success that they had with allthe students from all walks of
life.
They all went on to dowonderful things.
But to see these families whonever could, even had vision for
it they just didn't have visionand getting them to see what it
could do for them was reallythat's the thing that really lit

(54:32):
me up.
That's the thing that reallylit me up.
And so, um, all the board workthat I had done there and in
other places, my focus wasalways access, you know, um,
getting access to for everybody,to these types of schools and
um, and that when you're readyfor it, you me.
But that's what led me to kindof my next pivot.

Daniel Koo (54:55):
Yeah, no, I was just going to say.
You know, in your early yearsyou know you had a strong focus
on education and you alsomentioned that that was a unique
experience in your hometown.
And you know there's this partof you where you know you had a
fantastic career.
You experienced the height ofit.

(55:16):
By doing that, you know how theworkplace works, you know how
the corporate systems work andyou also learn marketing skills,
which is invaluable to any.
You know any industry, anyinstitution and you know, after
having your children, it becamea natural pivoting point to you
know a different kind of fieldwhere you feel fulfilled in a

(55:39):
different way.
Yeah, and it seems like throughthat you, you know you
eventually now arrive atEdAccess, where you know you're
doing something I guess is themost fulfilling to you.
So I'd be happy to talk aboutEdAccess and for you, I guess,
what is the most important thing?
That EdAccess does that changespeople's lives?

Pamela Haering (56:05):
EdAccess is relatively new.
It started as an idea that Ideveloped when I was at that
school in Southern California.
I was doing that work as a kindof a solitary consultant and I
could see that there were issueswith hiring people like my rate

(56:26):
at that time.
You know, if I were to chargeyou couldn't do it, and so I
reduced it to almost nothing andsometimes I often did things
for free so often did things forfree and I love that because it
really helped them to grow inways that they couldn't have
without it.
You know, and in sustain andthat was so gratifying, like,

(56:51):
that was so wonderful and theteams of people that I worked,
with their openness and almostat times pulling me onto teams,
I felt like I was a part oftheir team, even though I was
sort of working from the outside.
And it was never about how muchmoney I could make as a
consultant.
It was about making thisdifference, which was palpable,

(57:15):
and you asked me what kind ofdifference do you make?
You know, like and and it wasreally a their ability to
sustain, their ability to nowmake really strategic choices
and how they're going to grow.
Um, sometimes it had to do withum, operational pieces of their
organization or their boards.
You know, really helping themdevelop their boards and it's

(57:41):
hard to go from a startup to anadvisory board, to more of a
board that is focused on makingsure that this organization has
financial sustainability and,and so what kind of people do we
need to do that?
And and I had served on andstill do serve on many

(58:02):
educational boards, and so I'veseen a lot of that and work
through a lot of those issuesand and so just being able to
help them and whatever, whateverit was, you know I'm just like,
yeah, happy, happy to do it,and it's so satisfying to see
these organizations thrive.
You know, just really have theroadmap that they've been

(58:22):
looking for but didn't know howto put together, or knew they
needed but couldn't find theresources to do it at an
affordable price, and so thatthat has been incredibly
gratifying, like just wonderfulto be able to do that work and
that's the impact it makes.
Now, trying to measure thatimpact when there's so many
things that affect a school'sability or an organization's

(58:46):
ability to sustain, but clearly,without the strategic work, it
wouldn't have happened.

Daniel Koo (58:54):
So it's really an honor to be able to do this work
at this phase of my lifevulnerable and, you know, giving

(59:15):
you know your talents for freeand to be able to really make a
change in those communities bydoing that, and I think that's
something that we should allaspire to be like.
You know it's.
There's obviously a time tofocus on yourself, but, you know
, after that you have to startlooking out and see what kind of
positive impact you want toleave on this world, and I hope,
you know this podcast issomething like that too.
You know, by having you on thispodcast, there's going to be so

(59:36):
many people, you know, learningfrom your life experiences that
I'm hoping will, you know,leave a positive impact.

Pamela Haering (59:44):
Well, daniel, I love what you're trying to do
here and I find that this is agap.
You know I'm always looking forthe gap to fill the gap.
This is a gap Like it is.
It's hard to know and it's hardto find a job, first of all,
right out of school, for example.
Second of all, it's hard toknow what you should be looking
for.
You know, so many people aredriven only by the dollars,

(01:00:07):
right, and you know I have topay off my loans.
I have to oh my gosh, I haveaccountabilities with my family
and it's all true.
But what I've learned is do whatyou love, really, take time to
take stock in what you love andI tell my daughters this all the
time like, make sure you'redoing what you love.
That comes really organicallyfrom you and if you're great at

(01:00:29):
it, the opportunities come toshift or move or get you closer.
But stay true to what motivatesyou, who you are, and the
opportunities will come.
I've seen too many people.
I could have been on that list,right, I could have become a
lawyer, I could have gone to lawschool, I could have and never
felt it like, never loved it inthe way I wanted to love

(01:00:52):
something, felt it like, neverloved it in the way I wanted to
love something, and so I try togive that advice when I can,
because sometimes, you know, Ihave one daughter who's working
in nonprofit.
It's not like it's the biggestpaying job, you know, but it's
what she loves.
She wants to have that kind ofimpact, you know, and kind of in
the environmentalsustainability space, and she

(01:01:14):
wants that, and so she loves it.
My other daughter, who has avery artistic bent to her, she
actually loves where I started.
You know, she loves being onthe creative side of things and
she loves strategic work at thesame time.
It's so funny, and so she'sfound a place to be where she
can be super creative and in themedia industry, and so she's.

(01:01:35):
But it's not they didn't choosethose because they could make
the most money.
They know that they need tosustain themselves and they're
doing that, but, but it'sthey're doing something that
they love and I hope that theywill also see that the
opportunities that come when youget good at what you do and use
those things that you learnalong the way.

(01:01:56):
I mean, I've taken what I'velearned from day one and I'm
using it tomorrow and I used ittoday, right.
I think that's really importantthat you're always learning,
that you're not just doing a jobto do it or to bring home.
You're doing it because youwant to learn and you want to be
able to learn skills that youlove employing to help others

(01:02:17):
where you can.

Daniel Koo (01:02:17):
Yeah, I think that's fantastic advice for the
younger generation, the peoplewho are looking to find their
path and are just struggling andjust not sure what the next
step is.
And these people might be.
You know, people like me werelike I already have a job, but
you know, I'm just looking at myfuture.

(01:02:39):
I just worried about my future.
I'm like am I going to be doingsomething that's meaningful?
You know, that's that's athought that we always kind of
have in the back of our minds.
So, thank you so much.
One other advice that I wouldwant to hear from you is what
would you say to your youngerself if you could to encourage
or, to you know, really guideyourself to the right path.

Pamela Haering (01:03:02):
I would say never, never, never be afraid
and, in fact, seek expertise andknowledge from other people.
Like, don't be afraid.
We talked about this a littlewhile ago, so I won't go into it
too long, but don't be afraidto have those conversations.
Assume they want to talk to you.

(01:03:22):
Don't assume that they don'twant to talk to you and don't
have time for you, even thoughthey're really busy and really
important.
Assume they want to talk to you, make the ask, follow up and
ask them if there's anybody elseyou should talk to.
You know, is there anybody elsethat I can talk to as well that

(01:03:44):
you think would be helpful tome as I'm thinking about where
I'm going?
And so we all have these people.
No matter where you are in yourlife and in the world, there are
people around you that you canlearn from.
Always be a student.
Never be, never assume you'rethe master, ever.
Always be a student, and Ithink that's why I ended up
going back for my degree so late.

(01:04:04):
You know this degree ineducation so late because I am
always a student and alwaysbelieve that you have something
to learn from everyone, and youwill be surprised where that
takes you.
You know the people that you'llmeet and the things you'll be
exposed to that you didn't evenknow existed.
The jobs are out that youdidn't know existed.

(01:04:25):
So ask for the meeting, ask forwho else you can talk to.
Don't be afraid and assume thatthey want to talk to you
Because you're their future too.
So that's what I would say.

Daniel Koo (01:04:36):
To summarize a little bit about what we talked
about today.
Some of the key things I'mlearning is follow your gut
feeling.
There was your time of tryingout this law career going to
firms, internships and thingslike that but it just didn't sit
well with you, like you justknew that it wasn't a path for

(01:04:58):
you.
Even if you're you aren't ableto fully pick out a moment when
you didn't like it, you knowit's something that you just
know, you know as a gut feeling.
Another thing that I'm learningis mentorship, and you know in
the sense of networking, right.
So you're looking to go out andtalking to people that you know

(01:05:21):
you feel like you don't haveaccess to.
You know you're talking topeople that seem way out of your
league in terms of you knowmaybe corporate structure right
of you know, maybe corporatestructure right, but I think
that is fantastic advice.
You know like we have to assumethat they want to talk to you
as well, that they're excited toyou know, teach someone about

(01:05:42):
the things that they know.
One last thing I'm learning isyou know follow your passion,
and the reason is that it'llgive you a lot of meaning in
your life later.

Pamela Haering (01:05:54):
It seems like Well said, well said Daniel.

Daniel Koo (01:05:57):
Not only because it's fun, but I think you know
you've followed your passion fored access and you know helping
out with schools with your, withyour high.
You know really valuable skills, so, and I think that's
creating so much fulfillment andso much meaning in your life
that that's something that Iaspire to get and I really want

(01:06:17):
to experience.
So thank you so much for yourinsights today.
I really learned a lot and youknow, I hope we stay connected
and I'm really excited to see EdAccess.
You know pan out and roll out.

Pamela Haering (01:06:31):
Thank you, yeah, thank you Well, I appreciated
the chance to get to talk to youand to get to know you a little
bit better too, daniel, and Ilook forward to listening to not
mine but other wonderfulpodcasts that you do going
forward.
It's really great what you'retrying to do and you are trying
to make an impact.
You are trying to create accessand kind of interest.

(01:06:54):
You know, spark people'sinterest by using those who have
kind of walked these pathsalready, and it's a brilliant
idea and I think the nextgeneration, I mean, can use it.
You know, and from generationsto come, I wouldn't be surprised
if people in my generation,they could benefit from what
you're doing here as well, andso I mean, everybody pivots

(01:07:17):
every now and again, and sothank you for the good work
you're doing in the world too.

Daniel Koo (01:07:21):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you so much for the kindwords.
I really appreciate that.
I knew we were a great matchbecause, you know, I think what
you do matches so much with themission of this podcast, you
know, which is to provide, youknow, these conversations to
people who might not have accessto the mentors that you know
that I may have access to.
So, thank you so much, I reallyappreciate it.

Pamela Haering (01:07:43):
Of course, of course.
Thank you, daniel.
Thanks for watching.