One of a kind career: Disney, Deloitte, Universal, Stanford with Deborah Min

What happens when life takes unexpected turns? Deborah Kwon’s remarkable career journey proves that sometimes the most fulfilling paths are the least linear ones. 

Deborah takes us through her professional evolution from structural engineering studies at MIT to leadership roles at Deloitte, Disney Imagineering, Universal Studios, and A&E Networks. Her candid reflections reveal how each transition taught her valuable lessons about adaptability, communication, and the power of relationships in career development.

The conversation explores fascinating behind-the-scenes insights from her work developing major theme park attractions (including Tower of Terror!) and master-planning Universal Studios Singapore from bare ground. Deborah shares how at just 26, she found herself with extraordinary responsibility that shaped her professional confidence and approach to leadership.

Beyond career achievements, we delve into the personal side of professional choices. Deborah offers refreshingly honest perspectives on balancing ambitious career goals with family life, including strategic decisions to maintain flexibility while raising children. Her approach challenges conventional work narratives, showing how careful prioritization can allow for both professional fulfillment and family engagement.

For those feeling uncertain about their next career move, Deborah's story offers reassurance through its winding nature. She emphasizes the value of mentorship, highlights how networking (or "making friends" as she prefers to call it) opened unexpected doors, and explains why being able to anticipate questions makes you invaluable in any professional setting.

Whether you're contemplating a career pivot, struggling to balance competing priorities, or simply curious about different professional paths, this episode provides both practical wisdom and encouraging perspective from someone who's navigated it all with remarkable grace.

Subscribe now to hear more stories from professionals who've found their unique path through today's complex career landscape!

Feel free to leave comments here!

Episode Transcript

Deborah Kwon (00:00):
I got to do so much more than I ever imagined
at that age.
I think I was only about like26 or 27, maybe like your age.
Yeah, just about my age yeah somuch more than I ever imagined,
and it was all international.
So then we got to travel a lot.
One project was like aground-up project and it was in
Singapore.
Sentosa Island was the space,but really there was nothing

(00:23):
there but dirt.
So it was from the ground upmaster planning a whole new
theme park and then justfiguring out what to do and how
to present it to the seniormanagement to get approval and
working with the government.

Daniel Koo (00:37):
So you and your team were kind of really responsible
for the whole, like starting upthe whole project.

Deborah Kwon (00:51):
It was like carte blanche, like you could figure
this out.
So that was really exciting andwe had a good budget.
I was able to interviewconsultants to hire them and
just the support I had from myboss you know just he trusted me
to do gave me so much latitude,more than somebody my age would
have.

Daniel Koo (01:06):
Hey, welcome back to My Perfect Path.
For those of you who are new,I'm your host, Daniel Koo, and I
welcome you to season two.
For me, at large, pivotalmoments of my life, such as
applying to new colleges,applying to new jobs or
determining what next careermove is right for me I spend
time researching and findingmentorship to determine next
career move is right for me.
I spend time researching andfinding mentorship to determine

(01:27):
what was the best path for me.
I knew that this struggle wasnot isolated to me.
Everyone struggles with this,simply because we cannot predict
the future.
However, I found something thatis second best to predicting
the future it's learning fromthose ahead of our career and
from those who've seen more andexperienced more.
After all, there are not thatmany problems that have not been
solved yet.

(01:48):
If you've ever felt unsureabout your next career move,
you're in the right place Today.

(02:10):
I'm excited to introduce to youDeborah Kwon, who has built an
impressive career spanningconsulting, entertainment, media
technology andcommercialization.
Her professional journeyincludes roles at Deloitte,
disney Imagineering, universalStudios, a&e Networks and
currently at StanfordUniversity's Office of
Technology Licensing.
Beyond her corporateachievements, deborah is a
dedicated mother of two andactively contributes to the
nonprofit sector.
Her story illustrates howembracing unexpected

(02:31):
opportunities and following yourinterests can lead to a
fulfilling yet nonlinear careerpath.
In this episode, we'll discussthe transitions between
engineering and business,navigating work-life balance,
the power of networking andpractical advice for those
looking to pivot in theircareers.
I think you're going to enjoythis one, so thank you so much
for joining us.

Deborah Kwon (02:52):
My pleasure.

Daniel Koo (02:53):
I think today we'll be kind of going over a lot of
practical advice.
I think that's what you'reabout as well.
But before we go in, today'sepisode's name is My Winding
Path.
Could you tell us a little bitabout why you chose that?

Deborah Kwon (03:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
I guess you know people thinkthat they have a career laid out
for them, whether they want tobe a doctor or lawyer or
engineer.
I thought I had a careerplanned out for me too, but it
was not as I expected.
It took a lot of turns and Imoved bi-coastal twice from LA

(03:27):
to New York and back and justand I'm still evolving, I'm
still looking for, like, thenext thing.
So there it never really ends,I think.

Daniel Koo (03:36):
Actually that's the other word that we were almost
going to use for the episoderight, bi-coastal.
I think you know how you madethat decision to go from New
York to California.
Those will all be kind ofpractical advice that we'll be
able to learn today.
Can we talk a little bit aboutyour current role, or current
roles, and what your day-to-daylooks like?

Deborah Kwon (03:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
I work part-time for a Stanfordoffice of technology licensing.
So what I do is I marketpatents that come out of the
labs at Stanford.
So it entails having a businessbackground so you can
understand the aspects of thetechnology and then writing
abstracts to pull out thedetails of the technology and

(04:18):
the patents and market them tocompanies that would want to
license them.
So it really iscommercialization and the
mission statement there is tobetter society through
translating research from lab tosociety.
And every university, everyresearch university out there,
has this function.

(04:38):
So, like you went to USC, theyhave a big commercialization
office too and they have roles,like I have.
But what was unique for me wasmy college roommate worked in
this marketing role at Stanford.
She moved away and then she wasable to do it remotely and then

(04:59):
the workload got so big becauseStanford just grew so much over
the past 30 years that sheneeded help.
And I was talking to her oneday and I said your job seems so
interesting and she said, oh,an opening's here and that's how
I got the job.
So I think a key componentabout careers is really just who

(05:20):
you know and not always whatyou know, so it's just timing.
You know, she was somebody whowas talking to me about her
career and I was looking toswitch careers because I wanted
to have a flexible part-time job.
So that's my part-time job,remotely.
And then my other part-time jobis working for a nonprofit.
I'm a board member and doingstrategic consulting for this

(05:44):
nonprofit that supports specialneeds kids.
So I'm rolling off of what I'mdoing at Stanford and spending
more time on nonprofit.
I'm thinking to do morenonprofit for Asian American
voices.
So I'm looking to the next step, which is different than what
I've done in the past.

Daniel Koo (06:04):
I think you touched on a really good point of
knowing the right people in yourcareer and, as we'll talk about
later in the episode, your moveto Disney and your move to
Universal was very much aprocess that was really aided by
the network that you've builtover the years.
So I think I'm really excitedto hear more about that.

(06:26):
Let's jump back to maybe yourchildhood times and I want to
know what kind of backgroundyou've had and how you grew up.

Deborah Kwon (06:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
I was born in Seoul and weimmigrated to America via Hawaii
and then New York City when Iwas two.
So I don't remember much aboutKorea at all, but I watch a lot
of Korean drama to try to seewhat my childhood could have
been like if I had been in Korea.

(06:56):
So that's one of the reasons Iwatch a lot of the K-dramas.
I'm so curious about how yougrew up in Korea.
But anyway, I came as animmigrant.
So, like immigrants, it was allabout education and studying.
You need to get good grades andgo to a good school so you can

(07:16):
get a good job.
So that was always the goal.
And I was the oldest child.
I was very independent and Itried to do a lot of different
things growing up.
I liked to write, I likedphotography, I liked to draw.
I did a lot of different things.
I loved like Legos and buildingthings and drawing things, and

(07:37):
I think I wanted to make things,like create things.
So I always loved like fashion,design and architecture.
I remember, as an immigrant,seeing like the you know, world
Trade Center, empire StateBuilding and just these iconic
structures.
So I wanted to build things.
So I studied architecture andstructural engineering at MIT,

(07:59):
but earlier on I think myinfluences was just being
curious about the world and Ireally liked functional art.
I think I realized that lateron Things that were beautiful
but was useful, like even chairsor clothes.
I like the aesthetics of things.

Daniel Koo (08:20):
I actually resonate a lot with what you just said,
Because when I was growing up Ialways remember trying to build
things.
I mean, they weren't amazinginventions at the time, but I
think I was trying to, even forLegos.
I liked Legos that move andthat had moving parts, rather
than stationary ones.
I always thought if it'sstationary you can just follow

(08:41):
the instructions and make it.
I didn't really see a big pointin them because I wasn't into
collecting, but I always wantedthings to move and do something.
So I actually resonate withthat a lot.
I guess a lot of engineers mayhave a similar kind of growing
up.

Deborah Kwon (08:55):
I think a lot of people feel that way.
Yeah, like when you write code,you're building something from
nothing.
And that's a really excitingfeeling You've created something
, you've added something to theworld.
So I think I always liked thatidea.

Daniel Koo (09:09):
So you studied architecture and structural
engineering?

Deborah Kwon (09:11):
Yes, how was that for you?
Is it a double major at MIT wasunder the civil engineering and
environmental sciencedepartment and I think because,

(09:31):
like your peers, you wanted toget an engineering degree.
So I just did architecture onthe side while I got the degree
in engineering.

Daniel Koo (09:34):
Oh, wow, actually, I did something kind of similar.
I studied cinematic arts as aminor and I think you know as
engineers, if you take too manyclasses on the engineering side,
you kind of want a creativeside as well.
So I feel like that's somethingthat I was looking forward to.
I don't know if you were doingthe same.

Deborah Kwon (09:54):
I think I did, because I think in one of my
essays for grad school I said Iwas a Libra and I'm all about
balance and the left side, rightside.
I always had a creative sideand I actually studied at like
Parsons and FIT.

Daniel Koo (10:08):
Oh, you did.

Deborah Kwon (10:09):
Art schools in New York City when I was in high
school.
But I liked the math side,where it was precise and there
was one answer and then you weredone.
I remember in my architectureclasses we would be building,
designing and actually buildingmodels, but it was never done.
It was like 24 hours a day wecould be building, but it was

(10:31):
never done.
But I liked in my engineeringclasses you would finish your
problem set and you're done.
So I like both sides of that.
So yeah, I think I understandwhat you're saying, with just
the balance of it.

Daniel Koo (10:44):
How was growing up in New York?

Deborah Kwon (10:47):
So I lived in some not so great places in the
Bronx and Queens and then myparents, we moved to New Jersey
when I was 10.
So I was a latchkey kid, I wasscared all the time.
And then you should be back inthe 70s.
You should have been scared allthe time.
And then you should be Back inthe 70s.
You should have been scared allthe time.

(11:08):
It's much better now, but inNew Jersey it was like a very
suburban life, but I always wasdrawn to Manhattan.
So in the summers I tried totake summer classes in New York,
but it was like a typicalsuburban life.
But my parents were workinghard, hard and I was very
independent.
So I just did things on my own.

(11:28):
I signed up for my own classesand, you know, just found my way
through high school.

Daniel Koo (11:35):
I guess during high school what was kind of like
your favorite subject, ifanything.

Deborah Kwon (11:40):
Yeah, so in high school I you know, I actually
found all my college essays andmy Common App back from 1988.
Oh wow, I mean we had CommonApps back then but we had to
type them.
But my classes, I mean, I didvery well in school and it
really was the teachers I had,such excellent like STEM

(12:03):
teachers that I think it drew meto that.
But I saw that in my activities.
I had a t-shirt printingbusiness so I would design
t-shirts and then I also wonsome home economics award in

(12:27):
like the state of New Jersey forthis jacket.
So I did all sorts of weirdthings with like creating things
.

Daniel Koo (12:35):
That's very entrepreneurial as a high school
student.

Deborah Kwon (12:38):
And I'm like I don't know.
My claim to fame actually is wehad a new computer sewing
machine in my home economicsclass.

Daniel Koo (12:50):
What is a computer sewing machine?

Deborah Kwon (12:52):
So it allowed you to press buttons to make letters
Like you could do embroidery,and you didn't have to do it
manually.

Daniel Koo (13:02):
Like to do the E's and do lettering manually.

Deborah Kwon (13:05):
You can program it to make embroidery and letters
like flowers or so-and-so, likelove, so-and-so, you could put
initials and you could do allsorts of things with it.
And my teacher didn't know whatto do with it.
So I figured out how to use itand that's why I made all sorts
of crazy things and then I wonsome prizes on it.

Daniel Koo (13:26):
I guess was that kind of like your first exposure
to coding and things like that.

Deborah Kwon (13:31):
It wasn't coding really, but it was just figuring
out, like the Like, how to makeit work, asking me to like
decorate the boards outside theroom, to like you know the old I
don't know if you guys stillhave that, but outside the
classroom there would be a boardwhere you would put up, you

(13:51):
know, what the class wasstudying that that semester or
whatever.
So, you know, every few monthsI would make designs and, you
know, replace the board with allthe different designs.
So, yeah, that's now.
I remember that was my claim tofame in that high school.

Daniel Koo (14:09):
So after that you kind of ended up in MIT.
How was your experience there?
And I guess is there somethingthat you learned at MIT that
kind of you still carry to thisday.

Deborah Kwon (14:22):
So I think when you're there it's hard.
It's like there's a saying thatyou're drinking from a fire
hose, that when you're there andthere's no safety nets, like
you could fail.
But now I really appreciate,just like the grit that you

(14:42):
learn from the people.
I think everyone there wasreally hardworking and really
cooperative.
It wasn't like I don't know.
I think the people there werereally amazing people and
socially we had a great time.
I was lucky to be part of asorority.
There was only two sororitiesand 30 fraternities at that time

(15:03):
.
Now there's like seven or eightsororities and 30 fraternities.
At that time Now there's likeseven or eight sororities, but I
think when I was there maybe itwas like 25, 30% women, so it's
not as small as people think.
Now it's like there's parity50-50.
But I think I worked extra hardbecause I didn't want people to
think they're like, oh, you'reonly there because you're a girl

(15:25):
.
So I felt like I had to workextra hard and make sure I could
compete with everyone.
But honestly, I enjoyed workingwith the guys.
It was just easy and there wasno like emotionality with
studying or saying your opinions.
A lot of people say I have verymasculine energy, not as

(15:47):
emotional, like I don't liketalking on the phone about
feelings for hours and hours.
So you know we just got to theproblem set, got things done and
yeah, even at work too, Ienjoyed working with guys.
Often I was the only woman inthe room, so I think it prepared
me to work with guys becauseyou know it was a man's world

(16:07):
out there for sure.

Daniel Koo (16:09):
When you were at MIT , did you feel imposter syndrome
at all Like?
Did you ever feel like it wastoo much for you, or did you
feel like, as you were goingthrough it, you were getting
used to it?

Deborah Kwon (16:21):
I think there's always that fear that you might
fail.
So it drove me to work andstudy hard.
I think everyone had somewhatof an imposter syndrome.
But I got good grades.
I got into good grad schools, Iwas in two honor societies.
So when I got thoseachievements I felt better, like

(16:42):
oh, maybe I do belong here.
But I think, yes, when you'refirst there you're like I'm
going to fail, I'm going to fail.
But yeah, even the first yearis pass-fail because people do
fail.
So they made it pass-fail so toease the transition.
But I think after, like, mygrades settled, I got a rhythm.

(17:03):
I think I felt much betterabout it.
But often, you know, wheneveryou're in new roles, new places,
you always have an impostersyndrome.

Daniel Koo (17:12):
I think you know, just talking to you I get a
feeling that you probably won'thave failure as an option, Like
I feel like you would just kindof like really power through it
and be prepared to to make surethat you get a.
You get, you get good gradesyeah, I don't.

Deborah Kwon (17:27):
I didn't think there was ever a choice like you
just had to, you just had to,but I mean, I think there is a
mental health toll to it too.
I think I still have nightmaresthat I'm gonna fail a test,
honestly like I've had thosebefore, really, yeah, I know a
lot of people have that it'slike your, your final exams
coming up and you never went toclass and you never dropped the

(17:47):
class.
And now you have to go to theclass.
I have that dream.

Daniel Koo (17:52):
I think for me, it's more about forgetting that
there was an exam and thenrealizing that, oh my gosh, I
didn't prepare for this.
Not being prepared is probablymy deepest fear maybe no.

Deborah Kwon (18:05):
Yeah, I think that's part of the imposter
syndrome.
It's like I don't belong here,I'm not ready for this, and I
think anytime you're in a new,challenging situation, that
dream is kind of telling youthat.

Daniel Koo (18:18):
So after MIT you got accepted to Stanford and
Berkeley master's programs.

Deborah Kwon (18:23):
Right when I was an undergraduate, because I just
wanted that momentum, because Ithink when you're in the
workforce it's hard to you know,take all your exams and get
back to school.
So and my dream was to go toCalifornia.
I just, I had roommates fromCalifornia, I met a lot of
friends from California.
So I said, oh, I, that's whatI'm going to do, I'm going to go

(18:44):
to California.
So I said, oh, that's what I'mgoing to do, I'm going to go to
California.
So I applied to those twoschools.

Daniel Koo (18:47):
When you decided to do a master's program, did you
not want to go into industryjust yet?
I wanted to know if that was adeliberate thing or if it was
something you did to kind ofdelay the inevitable going into
the job market.

Deborah Kwon (19:00):
No, I think in what I was doing, you needed a
master's.
To be a structural engineer,you needed a master's.
You also needed a PE degree,which is also a professional
engineering exam.
You have to pass thiseight-hour exam.
So I did that too, as a senior,because I thought I was going
to be a structural engineerworking in New York.

Daniel Koo (19:18):
Is that more like a license?

Deborah Kwon (19:20):
It's a professional engineering license
so you can sign off on drawingsand plans that the structure is
going to stand.
So, yeah, it's a professionallicense.
Yes, so I was planning that.
But then all my friends who areall engineers were all doing
business Interesting and it'sbecause, you know, money was

(19:45):
calling, Like these investmentbanks and consulting groups just
came to our school and you justsigned up for interviews and
they whine and dine you and theysay, oh, look at this, you know
opportunity.
And then you get kind of swayedby that.
So I always look back thinkingthere's so many incredible
students that were studying andresearching in such great, you

(20:07):
know important areas but theygot wooed away by money and Wall
Street.
So I don't know.
So yeah, money is a real driver.

Daniel Koo (20:17):
So did you end up doing your master's program, or
what was the route that you took?

Deborah Kwon (20:21):
Yeah, so again it's windy because you know
we're lying to the summer.
Before my senior year I wasworking at an engineering
company in New York city andsomeone pulled me aside and I
was just doing CAD drawings andyou know analysis doing, you
know these calculations.
And this guy said you know what?
You should go into business,don't do this, you're not going

(20:43):
to.
You know I'm I was one of veryfew women engineers there.
It's like you're not going tomake a lot of money and you're
not going to rise fast.
And he thought that I would dobetter in business in general.
So I was like, oh, that'sinteresting.
And then I went back to collegeand then my friends were all
signing up for these you knowWall Street jobs and I was like

(21:04):
what do you do there?
I think I was too late to workin investment banking, because
the people who were going to dobanking, they really understood
what that job was and I didn'tunderstand what that job was,
and you probably recruit a lotearlier, right?
Yeah, I think some of them werealready doing the summer
internships the summer before.
But then there were others whojust jumped the bandwagon and
figured it out and got jobs onWall Street.

(21:26):
But I got a job in consultingwhich I never imagined.
I didn't even know what thatwas when my senior year started.
But I had another friend slashmentor was like a year older who
also said you know, this iswhat investment banking is like
and this is what consulting islike, and I think you'd be
better for consulting and I waslike that's interesting.
So I just signed up for someinterviews and then and I got

(21:48):
the job.
So I was surprised.

Daniel Koo (21:50):
So the person who pulled you aside and said you
know, don't go into engineering,did that person know you well
or was it just like an advicefrom a random person?

Deborah Kwon (21:58):
So the person at the firm at the engineering firm
did not know me well.
He was just another co-workerthat I was just doing CAD
drawings with, and then mymentor, who was a year older,
he's the one who actually heknew me very well.
He's the one saying you know,don't do architecture, do
structural engineering.
And he's the one else saiddon't do engineering, do
business, because he's going todo investment banking, and he

(22:21):
ended up going to businessschool also.

Daniel Koo (22:24):
You end up going to Deloitte for management
consulting.
How was that experience for you?

Deborah Kwon (22:29):
So in 1992, it was a pretty bad recession so that
program in Manhattan used tohave 10 to 15 analysts and I
think we only had four in mygroup and we just didn't have
the projects projects I thinkthat we used to have when it
wasn't a recession, and I thinkwe talked about this, how it's

(22:54):
great to have two out of thethree aspects of a, of a project
like you got to make sure youhave a good project, good
teammates and a good boss yes,ah yes, the three things that
make you kind of happy at work.
Yeah, the three things that giveyou, you know, like quality of
life at work right.
So it was because, inconsulting, each project is, you

(23:17):
know, finite and each team islike a virtual team that come
together and break up, cometogether and break up and you
could have different projects,different managers, different
teams, like some part of thatwas good because you had to be
really flexible, you had tolearn how to work in a team very
quickly and adapt.
But sometimes you might nothave a great team or a great

(23:39):
manager or a great project andsome you know.
So sometimes I would have twoof the three, sometimes I would
have zero of the three.
So it really depended on theproject.
But overall, I mean, the skillsthat I learned was, I think the
main skill I learned wasnetworking.
They said in order to get onthe projects you want to be on,

(24:02):
you have to network with thepartners who are doing that
industry.
So I was interested in realestate and there was certain
partners that worked on that.
So you had to go approach themat these events and say I'm
really interested in what you'redoing and they might put you on
a project.
So I learned that is important.

(24:26):
And then, just technically, wehad a program where they would
fly out all the analysts I thinkthere were like 300 in the
country.
We'd fly to Chicago or Floridaor someplace and we'd all get to
know each other and then learntechnical skills like how to put
together a presentation, likethe decks, how to write a deck,

(24:49):
or financial analysis ormarketing strategies, things
like that.

Daniel Koo (24:53):
Actually, before we go more deep into Deloitte, I
want to ask you you mentionedthat you learned a lot about
networking, or maybe theimportance of it.
Is there like a skill or somepractical advice around
networking?
So I'm sure it must've beendaunting to go and talk to these
partners at the time, becauseyou're in your early twenties
and you're just trying to figureout how to make conversation

(25:16):
with them.
Do you have any advice aroundthat?

Deborah Kwon (25:18):
I know it could sound so transactional, right,
like you just, you know, say youknow I want X, but that's not
the case.
I mean it's both ways, I thinkI mean I could help them on
their project.
You know I have skills thatcould help them on their project
.
So I thought of it that way.
So it's not just one way itcould be.

(25:39):
I can help you too, and if theydon't pick me for a project in
the future, that's fine, youknow.
And then from that person youcan meet another person.
But I think I was, even morethan I was, very extroverted
younger.
Now I'm more introverted, Ithink, but when I was younger I
was very extroverted.
So that helped.
I think if you're introvertedthat could feel like a daunting

(26:02):
thing to do is just to go up tostrange people.
But I always had like threequestions in my pocket and when
we were doing small talk, um,and in new york city it was all
about uh, restaurants oh, atthat time there was this guide
where everybody would try tocheck off every restaurant that
you would go to and um.
So one of the questions would belike oh, have you been to any

(26:24):
good restaurants lately?
Another question is like oh,have you been to any good
vacations or something, and liketell me, what project are you
working on?
So just you know, if you don'thave a flow with a conversation,
at least I could be like oh,have you been to a restaurant
lately?
Or I just went to, you know, leCôte Basque or whatever.
That restaurant was in New YorkCity at the time.

Daniel Koo (26:45):
That's actually really good advice, I think,
just because everyone loves food.
You know everyone loves goingto restaurants and eating good
food.
Everyone loves to learn aboutyou know great restaurants, so I
think that's really goodpractical advice.
So now you're at Deloitte andyou're kind of experiencing
different projects and you'relearning different things.
When did you start to feel alittle bit antsy and maybe look

(27:09):
for a change?

Deborah Kwon (27:10):
Yeah, so typically after the business analyst
program it's about two to threeyears.
People go to business schoolafterwards.
But because I had applied toStanford and Berkeley from
undergrad, I knew that I wasgoing to go there because I was
dating somebody on the WestCoast.
So I told my boyfriend at thetime, like I'm going to be at

(27:31):
Stanford in 1994.
And if somehow you can be there, maybe we can have a future
together.
So the reason I went toStanford over Berkeley was
because Stanford let me defertwo years so I could do this
program, whereas Berkeley saidno.
So that's why and Stanford wasgreat when I got there they let

(27:51):
me modify my major, so it wasn'tso engineering that it could be
more about real estatedevelopment and more business
focused.

Daniel Koo (27:59):
That actually turned out really great for you, I
guess, because you got to tryout working at Deloitte and
being in industry and thenending up kind of changing to
major as well.
I actually want to ask aquestion about the transition
from engineering to maybebusiness consulting and that
kind of arena.
When you made that switch, whatwas kind of going through your

(28:20):
head?
I'm guessing you've beenexposed to a lot of engineering
at school and you're kind ofdiving into this new career
field Was that difficult to kindof reconcile in your head?

Deborah Kwon (28:32):
No, I just thought , gosh, this is so easy.
The math that you needed was,like you only needed like
algebra too.
Or maybe just algebra.
You don't need differentialequations, so it just felt easy.
But all different skills, likeit was not your, you know your

(28:54):
technical skills, it was allyour.
You know communication skills.
I mean, I always say that'syour number one thing.
You have to communicate what'sin your head or nobody will know
what you know.
So it was a whole differentskill set.
That you know becomes moreimportant.
But what I realized, though andthis is sad because it's like

(29:17):
back in that time, it was such aman's world.
It was very sexist, it was veryracist, and I realized in
college you were judged by yourgrades, and that was objective,
and in the work world you werejudged very subjectively.
So I cut my hair, I woreglasses, we weren't able to wear

(29:41):
pants at the time too, and Iremember just feeling really out
of place.
I was always like the youngeston the team, many times the only
Asian, almost all the time theonly Asian, almost all the time,

(30:02):
the only Asian, and often theonly woman too.
So it was interesting whenSheryl Sandberg said to lean in
and sit at the table, I was theone always sitting, not at the
table but on the outskirts atall those meetings.

Daniel Koo (30:10):
And.

Deborah Kwon (30:10):
I'm like yeah, I didn't see myself as being at
the table.
I always sat outside the table.

Daniel Koo (30:16):
I think that actually must have been really
tough and something thatthankfully nowadays people don't
experience as much.
But are there any lessons thatyou kind of take away from that?

Deborah Kwon (30:26):
Oh gosh, like I had no like mentor for that.
I wish I had somebody I couldlook up to to tell me, like you
know, it's okay, you know, justbeing a woman or being 20.
I might probably look like 15at the time too.
Like that's, you know, justbeing a woman or being 20, I
might probably look like 15 atthe time too.
Like that's, you know, youcould.
Still, I wish I had moreconfidence, yeah.
But yeah, I do feel sorry forthat young person back then, but

(30:47):
I'm really proud that thisgeneration, they, don't have to
feel that way.

Daniel Koo (30:52):
And if someone were to kind of go through something
similar, maybe to a lesserdegree, what would you say to
them?

Deborah Kwon (31:00):
Oh gosh, that's hard.
Just focus on your work.
You know it's just because youmight be younger or female or
Asian doesn't mean your work isnot as good as the other, the
next person.

Daniel Koo (31:12):
So, moving on from Deloitte, so now you've started
your master's program atStanford, tell me about your
relationship and how that kindof panned out.

Deborah Kwon (31:23):
Yeah.
So I met Ken when I was workingat that engineering firm the
summer before my senior year,and he was a third year med
student and he was in New YorkI'm in, I'm going to be in
Boston.
So we did a long distance thereand he was in New York, I'm
going to be in Boston.
So we did a long distance there.
And then I did come back to NewYork to work for Deloitte and
then he went to LA for residency.

(31:45):
So we were doing bi-coastalrelationship and I said you know
, it's confirmed that I'm goingto be at Stanford in 1994.
So if we're going to have afuture, you need to be there.

Daniel Koo (31:57):
Yeah, move to NorCal .

Deborah Kwon (31:58):
Yeah, so it was really hard to do.
But he was able to switchresidency spots with somebody he
knew that was at Stanford, whowanted to come to UCLA, and they
just did an even swap.
And it's not easy to do thatfor residencies, but it's almost

(32:19):
impossible.
But it just happened that youknow he had interviewed at
Stanford, so they wanted him.
And then vice versa, the womanwho wanted to come down to UCLA
they knew her, so they acceptedher.
And again it was through hismedical school friend who was at
Stanford that said that Kencontacted him and said you know,

(32:42):
I want to get to Stanford, likewhat's the situation up there?
And he said you know, I knowsomebody who wants to go to LA,
and that's how it happened.
And yeah, you.

Daniel Koo (32:51):
It's almost like destiny it really is.

Deborah Kwon (32:55):
But yeah, so that happened and we got engaged at
that Hoover Tower and then welived there.
Yeah, that was 30 plus yearsago, wow, yeah.

Daniel Koo (33:07):
Okay so you meet the love of your life and you're
kind of staying in Stanford andthe Bay Area.
Yeah so during your master'sprogram, was the program what
you expected?

Deborah Kwon (33:20):
It was a very short program but I really
enjoyed the people, theprofessors, and I really liked
that.
I was able to create theprogram that I wanted and I
always say, compared to MIT,that Stanford's a walk in the
park.
I always say, just like,location-wise, it's just

(33:41):
gorgeous, the campus is justgorgeous, people seem really
happy to be there and like afull circle moment is the
professors that I would studywith and do research with, you
know, working at Stanford.
Now I see the patents thatthey're putting forth and
they're still working on a lotof the same area A lot of

(34:02):
innovative materials forconstruction and just building
safety, earthquake sensors,things like that that I would
work on.
I would see those kind ofpatents come through.
So I'm like, wow, they'reworking.
And they were like juniorfaculty then and now they're
like the head of the department,so it's really exciting to like
see that full circle.
But yeah, I'm really gratefulfor Stanford, since, you know,

(34:24):
got married there and so it's aspecial place for us.
But yeah, I always say it wasjust such a beautiful
environment and just a fun time.

Daniel Koo (34:34):
So at this point I think you've made a successful
pivot in your career.

Deborah Kwon (34:59):
You've gotten a new degree in the field that you
want to kind of delve into.
What's one?
At a young age, the best way topivot is to get a degree.
If you wanted to go fromengineering to business, go get
an MBA.
Or if you want to do you know,computer science, get a master's
in computer science.
Or, you know, somehow networkand find the right opportunities

(35:20):
there.
So yeah, just I guess.
Yeah, back to networking andlistening and asking.

Daniel Koo (35:25):
Do you think that's still true in the kind of modern
era as well?
I guess I'm sure you see a lotof people and a lot of examples
of that.
Do you feel like that stillholds true where, like, you can
use a degree to kind of pivotinto a new field?

Deborah Kwon (35:38):
You probably don't need it as much, because I
think one thing I'm lacking inmy resume is an MBA.
Right, because you know I hadthe opportunity to get MBAs but
because I was married it limitedme to do things, so I didn't
get the MBA, but it didn't stopme.
Most of my jobs required an MBA, so it was my experience that

(36:01):
allowed me to get that.
But maybe this day and age,because there are so many more
applicants for the same jobbecause of LinkedIn and just
mass hiring, I think maybe thevery specific degrees can help
you to really distinguishyourself.
But I can't even stress enoughjust the networking, like the

(36:24):
coffee chats within your company.
You know you should be doing15-minute coffee chats with
different adjacent departmentsyou might be working with and
sign up for committees and, youknow, just be visible.
But I think that's personalitytoo.
I mean it's easy for theextroverts to do that to go to
every function and event andsign up for all these special

(36:46):
events committees.

Daniel Koo (36:48):
Yeah, I feel that too when I go to networking
events.
Not everyone is going to beoffering you a job, but it's
maybe one out of 20, 50 thatends up being very useful and
that ends up really helping you,and they end up being really
good friends too.

Deborah Kwon (37:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's not just job searching,it's building relationships.

Daniel Koo (37:10):
I think, even with finding guests for the podcast,
I'm looking at so many peopletalking to so many people and
then once in I'll I'll comeacross someone with really
interesting stories, um, andthen I'll try to get them on my
podcast and I think thatactually is helping me a lot
because I'm meeting so manydiverse people, some of which

(37:32):
you know have access to or havebeen starting startups and
things like that which I'minterested in doing later.
So I think, yeah, networkingdefinitely is a very big part.
That I think is important aswell.

Deborah Kwon (37:43):
I know it could be a bad word.
I think like some people shiverat that like oh.

Daniel Koo (37:48):
Yeah, it has a bad rep.

Deborah Kwon (37:49):
Yeah, but it doesn't have to be.

Daniel Koo (37:51):
If we can rename it, we can call it making friends.
Yeah, that's better.
New friends, new friends, newfriends, okay, so after your
master's program you go intodisney.

Deborah Kwon (38:02):
Yes, I got it through stanford.
They were on campus, so, um,because back then they didn't
have the internet to find jobsso these were actual networking
fairs yeah, they would come andthey have the kiosks or the
stands.
Yeah, like career fairs.
The way I got my engineeringjob way back then was going
through a book and writing toeach of them.

Daniel Koo (38:27):
Wow.

Deborah Kwon (38:27):
So there was no portal to send anything in, but
it was better because there'sless applicants for the job.

Daniel Koo (38:36):
The barrier of entry is a lot higher, I guess yeah.

Deborah Kwon (38:39):
Like, deloitte came to my school and Disney
came to my school, so that's howI got those jobs.

Daniel Koo (38:44):
So you were kind of, you were in line and in front
of the stand and you went topitch, I guess.

Deborah Kwon (38:51):
I don't know if they had a kiosk.
I think they did have arepresentative, but it was just
like an office.

Daniel Koo (39:04):
They had an office and then sent their resume did
an interview and then they flewme down to Burbank.
So this is in LA now, so it'snot even in Stanford area.

Deborah Kwon (39:09):
Okay, so right now .

Daniel Koo (39:10):
so your husband is still in Stanford and now you've
got a job at in Burbank, whichis in Southern California we
live separately for the secondyear.

Deborah Kwon (39:17):
We live separately for our second year of marriage
.
I had an apartment in Burbank,which is in Southern California.
We live separately for thesecond year.
We live separately for oursecond year of marriage.
I had an apartment in Burbankand we had an apartment in
Sunnyvale, so I would just flyup, you know, san Jose to
Burbank every weekend.

Daniel Koo (39:30):
Every weekend Wow.

Deborah Kwon (39:31):
Yeah, but you know that was an hour flight and
those were small airports and itwas easy to get in and out and
I had colleagues driving, youknow, to Orange County from
Burbank and I would get homebefore they got home driving
through the traffic.

Daniel Koo (39:46):
That's hilarious.
No, that makes sense, becausetoday I drove from LA to
somewhere in OC.

Deborah Kwon (39:51):
Yeah, the traffic is bad.
It is bad.
We had to separate a lot forwork, but that was really like a
dream job for me.

Daniel Koo (40:06):
I really enjoyed working for Disney.
So what were you doing atDisney?
Just to kind of introduce usinto the world of Disney.

Deborah Kwon (40:09):
Imagineering.
What was your role there?
Yeah, so I worked as a seniordevelopment analyst.
So that was looking at thefinancial impacts of developing
resorts and theme parks andrides.
So looking at, say, we'rebuilding like a hundred million
dollar ride and just how, whatthe financial impact of that

(40:34):
would be.
So we would do all thisanalysis of how it'll increase.
There's all sorts ofterminologies like per caps and
attendance, like how this newride will help drive marketing,
it'll drive attendance, it'lldrive dollars and cents, the
food and beverage revenue, andthen we would have to justify

(40:55):
the spending for this and thenpresent it to senior management.

Daniel Koo (40:59):
So you take into consideration like the
attractiveness of the ride andmaybe the route as well, and how
people will pass by certainyeah, that's the whole
industrial engineering part ofit.

Deborah Kwon (41:10):
So that is actually separate.
But there's a huge group thatlooks at like theoretical
capacity and throughput actualcapacity and you know.
Then you can look at the entiretheme park itself to see how
many people can they actuallyput through rides in an hour.
There's a lot of analysisaround.

Daniel Koo (41:27):
That sounds really fun yeah.

Deborah Kwon (41:29):
That's a huge group and they're a really tight
knit group.
They're really fun to work with.
Yeah, they're, they're reallyfun.
There's a lot of internshipsthere too.
So yeah there's a lot ofinternships there, but it was
more on the financial side.
But I got to work a lot withengineers who are designing
these structures, like the ridesor the water parks or the

(41:54):
resorts, like the hotels, allthe golf courses.
So in order to do my analysis,I would have to work with
engineers to figure out what allthe assumptions and inputs were
.

Daniel Koo (42:05):
So it seems like there is a bit of connection.
From your past studies I knowyou were interested in
architecture, so now you're kindof building something.

Deborah Kwon (42:14):
Yeah, it was my dream job, honestly, because not
only I was the client like whenyou're a consultant, you're
always working for the client,right?
So it's always nice to be onthe client side, Like you're the
ones hiring the consultants.
So I was the one hiringconsultants and they were
providing, you know, informationthat I would need to analyze
the projects.

Daniel Koo (42:33):
So now actually the people you work with are both
jobs that you've had before,right, so you were an engineer,
you were a consultant, so Iassume that would have helped
you a lot in communicating withthem.

Deborah Kwon (42:45):
Yeah, I appreciated their perspective
for sure.
You know, I wanted to make sureI gave them very clear updates
on the projects, like cleargoals.
If anything changed, you had tocommunicate very clearly so we
don't waste their time and thenthey charge us too much because
we didn't tell them thatsomething pivoted right.
So it's again back tocommunications with your clients

(43:08):
, and at this point I was a lotmore.
I was more seasoned, so I hadmore confidence in working with
consultants.

Daniel Koo (43:17):
This is just for, I guess for me but what kind of
rights did you work on, and didyou ever have to go to Japan to
work on some of the no, I didn'twork on Tokyo Disneyland.

Deborah Kwon (43:28):
I worked on Tower of Terror.
Oh, wow, yeah that was reallyfun.
I worked on some Floridaprojects.
Some of the hotels in FloridaGosh, what are they called?
Like, maybe the All Stars Hotel, some of the hotels I worked on
.
I also worked at DowntownDisney oh, yes, it's changed so

(43:54):
much downtown Disney, but Iremember going to a lot of malls
looking at different likelayouts and looking,
understanding the rents persquare foot, because we had to
analyze, like what would it costto build this downtown Disney
and what would the annualoperating budgets would look
like and how much rent we wouldget from them, things like that.

(44:16):
So it was all financial basedbut some strategy and then with
the engineers to understand,just like the, the inputs for
the costs.

Daniel Koo (44:26):
Did you miss the engineering at all?
Like, do you?

Deborah Kwon (44:28):
No, I was like, oh , I'm glad they told me not to
do that.
I liked being on the.
You know the client side withthe money.

Daniel Koo (44:41):
That's a good place to be Interesting and it seems
like you've really found thefield that you're most
interested in and you're kind ofstabilized in that field.

Deborah Kwon (44:48):
Yeah, I really thought, oh gosh, this is
something I could do a long time, right?
And then my husband did movedown to LA eventually to do
another residency, so hefollowed me down this time.

Daniel Koo (45:00):
Okay, so now you're together.
Yeah, now we're together again,and then I continue at Disney,
and then we could talk aboutUniversal if you wanted to, yeah
, the next step would beUniversal, and I think here
there's an important lesson tobe learned about mentorship.
You just explained how it wasyour dream job, but I guess what
kind of led you to move on to adifferent company.

Deborah Kwon (45:22):
Yes, so my boss, he moved to Universal Creative
so that was the imaginary kindof counterpart at Universal and
they were on a big internationalexpansion and they were growing
the group.
So he brought me on and I gotto do so much more than I ever

(45:44):
imagined at that age I think Iwas only about like 26 or seven,
maybe like your age.
Yeah so much more than I everimagined, and it was all
international.

Daniel Koo (45:55):
So then we got to travel a lot at that company
what was kind of like the sizeand impact of your work.
I just kind of want to know thescale at which, um, you're kind
of operating.

Deborah Kwon (46:07):
One project was like a ground up project and it
was in singapore, and so it waslike working with asians for the
first time.
I was like, oh gosh, I was sohappy.
So it was like ground up therewas Sentosa Island.
I think Universal has a projectthere now, but Sentosa Island
was the space but really therewas nothing there but dirt.

(46:30):
So it was from the ground upmaster planning a whole new
theme park and then justfiguring out what to do and how
to present it to the seniormanagement to get approval and
working with the government.
Actually we worked a lot withthe development folks over at
Singapore.

Daniel Koo (46:50):
So you and your team were kind of really responsible
for the whole, like starting upthe whole project.

Deborah Kwon (46:56):
It was like carte blanche, like you could figure
this out.
So that was really exciting andwe had a good budget.
I was able to interviewconsultants to hire them.
We had people like drawing upplans for different ideas of you
know the different lands we had, like we had we had certain

(47:17):
like properties.
You know the different lands wehad, like we had certain like
properties.
You know, like I think we hadMarvel at the time, a lot of
Steven Spielberg properties.
So you know, like Jurassic Parkand those kinds of things.

Daniel Koo (47:29):
Oh, properties as in kind of like assets.

Deborah Kwon (47:31):
Assets.
Yeah, okay, I see.
So we could use those to dowhatever ride we wanted.
So of course, you would liftwhatever's most popular from the
other parks, but you couldcreate new rides.
You could create new ideas.
It's interesting the strategyfor Universal was off-the-shelf
rides, like they would just buya coaster and then theme it to

(47:54):
the Universal style, whereasDisney would build like custom
straight.

Daniel Koo (47:57):
You know know, they were much more expensive I think
that's so interesting, the wayyou say off the shelf rides.
Yeah, um, I guess there areroller coasters that are just
kind of pre-made and orpre-planned.

Deborah Kwon (48:08):
Yeah, a lot of them like made in europe, like
germany and things like thatyeah, you just and then all
those other parks are just, youknow, like six flags.
They just buy it off the shelfand they don't do anything to it
, they just call it something.
Just go to Walmart and justpick out a little coaster yeah
yeah, and they just put a nameon it and they don't do anything
.
But you know, Universal.

Daniel Koo (48:26):
That's super interesting.

Deborah Kwon (48:27):
You know Legoland, they would, you know, make it,
brand it their way.
I see, and I assume those areare really hard to customize um
once like I guess there's like awhole brand that does pre-plan
once, and then there's like acustomizable option no, I think
you just buy it off the shelfand then the universal team or
the lego land team they, theyhave the teams that would

(48:48):
customize it.
Yeah, and then you would hireconsultants, you know, who
understand like mechanicalengineering, and you know all
sorts of other things that youwould have to know.

Daniel Koo (48:58):
So you're, you know 26, 27, you're hiring people,
you're you know managing a hugeproject and you've mentioned
before that you felt veryconfident by this, by this point
.

Deborah Kwon (49:15):
Yeah, I think.
I think I had much more laidback and a lot not as formal,
like I was able to wear pants atwork.
I wasn't able to wear pants inNew York and there were a lot
more women, you know, and alsoit's the nature of the industry
too, consulting, like there wasnot a lot of women partners, you

(49:35):
know, and not as many mentors,and it was also the time in the
90s, whereas now it's likealmost the 2000s and you know,
and not as many mentors.
And it was also the time, andin the 90s, whereas now I'm like
almost the 2000s and you knowthere's a lot more, I don't know
, just more gender parody, Ithink, and California so when
you moved on to UniversalStudios, I assume that it was
probably a really good move foryou, yeah and you I did, and you

(49:56):
really enjoyed it there as wellI did.
I would still say that's myfavorite job still.

Daniel Koo (50:01):
So far, everywhere you worked at, it was like, or I
guess not everywhere, butDisney was very great to you as
well.
But was Universal kind of goodin a different way?

Deborah Kwon (50:10):
It was different because of my role and just the
support I had from my boss.
You know just he trusted me todo, gave me so much latitude,
more than somebody my age wouldhave.

Daniel Koo (50:22):
How did you come across this role and how did you
kind of acquire the job?

Deborah Kwon (50:27):
You mean the Universal one?
Mm-hmm, oh, it was just becauseI worked on a big project with
him, with my boss at Disney.

Daniel Koo (50:34):
And then your boss was able to kind of pull you in
into that.

Deborah Kwon (50:36):
When he got recruited to Universal he like
said hey, if you're interestedin moving, I think I have a role
for you.
So it took a few months, butthen I joined him later.

Daniel Koo (50:46):
So after Universal you end up back in New York
somehow what was kind of likethe scenario there, and you had
to get a whole new job as well.

Deborah Kwon (50:54):
Yeah, so my husband finished his residency
and wanted to work in New York,so we had to move for his job.
So I said goodbye to Universal,which was really sad.
I hired my replacement and thenI had to hit the pavement in
New York City to see what else Icould do next.
And there wasn't theme parkpresence there and in New York

(51:18):
it's mostly media andentertainment.
So I looked at differentopportunities there, but I was
looking at what are the bigcompanies in New York City.

Daniel Koo (51:53):
Because I was always interested in fashion and New
York City is fashion.

Deborah Kwon (51:55):
So I interviewed at Calvin Klein and Ralph Lauren
and Coach J Crew.
It was interesting, but Irealized that the creative was
king there and the financialgroups were, you know, very, I
guess, not as impactful, no, andI think they're just not run
very well.
So I think I did have a mentor,a good friend, who was in the
business that said don't do this.
But I did have a detour.
When I first moved to New Yorkwhile I was looking for a job, I
did have a friend, a collegefriend, who worked at a startup
and it was called Video Fashion.

(52:17):
It was in fashion, worked at astartup and it was called Video
Fashion.
It was in fashion and they hada whole library of like VHS and
all these old tapes and theinternet was growing so it was
to digitize all that and sellcontent.
So I tried to work for a startupfor a few months but it was a
disaster for me.
I realized I needed structure.

(52:38):
It was just chaos.
I think.
People who can deal with a lotof uncertainties.
It's good for them.
But the hours were crazy.
The people were coming in andout and you could be doing
strategy on, you know, in themorning and then like booking
flights for all these people inthe afternoon, like I just

(53:02):
needed more structure.

Daniel Koo (53:04):
I think it's also good to know that about yourself
, where I've been in a startupbefore and for engineers, you
know you do a diverse set ofroles.
But kind of in the engineeringspace, where you know you're not
only a backend engineer,frontend engineer, you kind of
have to do everything.
And I assume for business andfinance it's a whole mixture of

(53:25):
things.
You know there's hiring,there's financial planning, but
there's also random stuff likeemailing someone.

Deborah Kwon (53:31):
Oh yeah, and organizing meetings, yeah, you
have to do everything.

Daniel Koo (53:35):
And I was like.

Deborah Kwon (53:35):
You know, I want to.
You know, I want my role to bemore defined.

Daniel Koo (53:41):
I'm also curious for finance, just because I don't
know the industry that well.
Is it difficult to do financein a different industry?
Is it completely different?

Deborah Kwon (53:52):
Yeah, it depends, because finance could be part of
more accounting and that isprobably transferable to many
industries.
But then if there's finance,more strategic planning and
business development, that'smore industry specific.
So I think if you're moreaccounting focused, then you can

(54:14):
probably transfer much moreeasily.
But mine was more related tothe industry.

Daniel Koo (54:21):
So you end up going to A&E Television as manager of
financial planning and analysis.

Deborah Kwon (54:28):
Yeah.

Daniel Koo (54:29):
How did you find this role and, I guess, how did
you kind of ease into it?

Deborah Kwon (54:34):
So this one was not through networking Actually
I think I did.
A friend told me about arecruiter, so this was a
headhunter.
Oh, okay.
Right.
So I don't know if people userecruiters these days, but I met
with a recruiter and heintroduced me to a bunch of jobs

(54:55):
and I said I wanted the A&E one.
So then he pitched me to A&Eand then I met with a bunch of
people and got the job.
So that was it was a recruiter,not necessarily like a friend
of a friend.

Daniel Koo (55:08):
It wasn't like you looked up a job posting and you
were applying right.

Deborah Kwon (55:12):
I mean, in those days we didn't have like
full-blown internet.
The first thing, the first timeI used that was something
called Monstercom.

Daniel Koo (55:21):
Oh yes, Do you remember that?
Yeah.

Deborah Kwon (55:23):
I actually did, that's.
The next job was withMonstercom, but it was again
through friends.
At that time it was way lessapplicants and then now, with
remote people could apply fromall over the world, but at that
time you had to live in thatarea.

Daniel Koo (55:43):
You're just competing with the local kind of
area, Correct?

Deborah Kwon (55:45):
yeah, competing with the local talent.

Daniel Koo (55:48):
How was your life at A&E Television?
Did you feel like it was afield that you liked?
I mean, it's very differentfrom theme parks.

Deborah Kwon (55:56):
Yes, it's exciting because it was all new
vocabulary, like all new.
The industry is completelydifferent, a whole different
revenue model.
You know, like it was cable, socable television.
Back then, and what we did inmy group, we talked a lot about

(56:16):
convergence, about how theinternet and television was
going to converge.
So, we were just contemplatingwhen that happens.

Daniel Koo (56:25):
I mean that's like that's YouTube, basically.

Deborah Kwon (56:27):
Yes, that's YouTube, and back then it was
about video on demand.
Can you imagine skippingthrough commercials, right?

Daniel Koo (56:35):
Can you?

Deborah Kwon (56:35):
imagine skipping through commercials.
So we used to contemplate thefuture a lot of how digital will
take over all of media.
That's funny, because theydreamt of skipping ads, but now
we're stuck with ads, withYouTube, right, then that's how
they get you to pay, right,because it really is like how do

(56:57):
you pay for this content?
Yeah, so we used to contemplatethat a lot, I see.

Daniel Koo (57:05):
So after that I want to ask you about family at this
point.

Deborah Kwon (57:14):
Did you have children at this point or were
you planning to?
No, we were thinking about it,but then he decided he wanted to
come back to California.

Daniel Koo (57:21):
Oh, before you started a family.

Deborah Kwon (57:23):
Yes, before we started a family.
But I really enjoyed A&E a lotbecause I'd learned a whole new
industry and what I learned fromthat job was I worked for these
huge corporations with a lot ofpolitics.
A&e was a private company butit was owned by Disney.
But it was private and it wasvery profitable, so they gave us

(57:46):
a lot of leeway and I enjoyedworking for a more medium-sized
company where I would talk tothe CFO and CEO all the time.
They were on the same floor.
They would just pop by, wewould talk about a project.
So I loved having access tosenior management with a smaller
company.
I thought that was reallyexciting and I love that.

(58:06):
This role FP&A is a role that alot of companies have.
Bigger companies have and theydo more reporting about revenues
or they do some sort of likeroutine reporting and then they
also do special projects.
But as a consultant or atDisney Universal, I always just

(58:26):
only worked on projects.
So I liked having somestability of doing some routine
reporting work.
So I would be projectingrevenues or projecting certain
subscribers.
I would be projecting figuresand then I would get actuals,
like you know, a month later.
So it was like a report cardLike how did I project the
future?
And then I would have to reportvariance.

(58:48):
And you know it was a political, you know year, so we had more
ad revenue or like I would haveto report all that kind of stuff
.
So I thought that wasinteresting to have that kind of
routine aspect of a job and aproject aspect of a job.

Daniel Koo (59:03):
By that point, all of this work was kind of you
already knew how to do it right.
You already had the skills todo so.

Deborah Kwon (59:08):
Yeah, I think yeah , for any industry.
I think I could have gone tosomething you know similar and
been able to use, like the likethese, like financial tools at
that time.

Daniel Koo (59:18):
Yeah, and you mentioned that, uh, you really
liked that you had access to youknow, management and things
like that.
Why was that?
Is that because it gives you alot more clarity into the
direction of the company, or whywas that good for you?

Deborah Kwon (59:33):
I think when you're at large companies I
remember at Disney we would bedoing a project all night and
the next day you would getfeedback from somebody we did it
all wrong.
We got to do something all overagain and we'd be like, why?
So when you're, like you know,on the lower ranks, all these
things change.

(59:53):
People complain and you don'tknow why.
But I think when you're closeto management, you know why
things are changing.
So it makes sense, so you don'tcomplain about it.
So people who don't know whythings are changing, it's just
confusing and it just feels likeyou know more busy work.
I think so, and it was justempowering to know, like, okay,

(01:00:15):
these things are coming down theline, people are not going to
be happy, but at least I knowwhy it's going to happen,
whereas before I would hear andcomplain.
Be one of the complainers.

Daniel Koo (01:00:25):
Yeah, I think that's very good to know.
If you care a lot about clarityand understanding why there's
changes, I'm sure that'simportant for a lot of people.
You know I work at Amazon as asoftware engineer, I'm pretty
much at the end, the bottom nodeof the entire chain, and

(01:00:47):
there's very big shifts thathappen and oftentimes we're not
really given a lot ofinformation and being able to
ask people.
That's why we had those townhall meetings and things like
that to kind of resolve a lot ofthose questions.
But the explanation usuallycomes after the decision has

(01:01:07):
been, you know, made andeverything's been set.
So you know it'd be.
I guess it would be veryempowering to kind of get ahead
of that and be part of theconversation as well.

Deborah Kwon (01:01:16):
Exactly, exactly.
So that's where all thecomplaining and all the gossip.
But I would say not all seniormanagers.
They're probably not asforthcoming, they're not telling
100% truth on what's going tohappen.

Daniel Koo (01:01:29):
Yeah, I also wanted to ask so we've went over a lot
of your experience I'm curiouswhat you think makes someone
invaluable to their employer.
Because I think you mentionedbefore not in this podcast, but
you know in order to kind ofmove up or do well at your
company, you want to make sureyou basically help your boss do

(01:01:51):
their job even easier and better.
So I want to know what yourthoughts are on that.

Deborah Kwon (01:01:56):
I think you want to have skill sets that your
boss doesn't have or otherteammates don't have.
So maybe you know how to use acertain software that others
don't know, or you just could dofinancial analysis nobody else
can do it, or whatever.
But so having different skillsets, but also kind of reading

(01:02:18):
your boss's mind and just makingthat person's job easier, right
, and then making that personlook good and your team look
good and therefore you'll lookgood.
But I think you need a lot ofEQ for this.
I think in the job world, likeschool, is good for your IQ,

(01:02:39):
right, but in the job world it'smore EQ leading.
I think that's going to helpyou grow.
So if you can read what'sneeded in the project and you do
it before you're asked or yousuggest things, that's going to
make the boss's job easier.
That's going to make youinvaluable.

Daniel Koo (01:02:56):
Let's talk about more family side.
Yeah, so you end up coming backto California and you decide to
start a family, and I'm sure itcouldn't have been easy to
start a family and work at thesame time and I kind of want to
know how you made thosedecisions and what you had to go
through and what you ended updoing.

Deborah Kwon (01:03:15):
So we were in New York City and my husband wants
to come back to California, sonow I have to quit another job
that I like and come find a newjob here.
So I ended up at DisneylandResort and that's similar to
what I was doing before atDisney, except it was very
focused on Disneyland in Anaheim, not necessarily like all of

(01:03:38):
the parks in the world, so itwas just Disneyland.
So I worked there for I don'tknow almost a year, I think, but
I was pregnant and I didn'tthink I wanted to.
I want to take some time off.
So that's what a lot of peopledo, is they take some time off
for their kids.
And during that time I took twoyears off.

(01:04:00):
So I was glad to have my kidswere back to back and I think
that's very efficient.
So that was good.
They're 18 months apart, sothey were back to back.
And then I did go back toworking for a coffee company a
whole different.
Now this is consumer products,but because at disneyland I
worked in food and beverage okay, so there was some connection

(01:04:22):
there was a big connection there, right so.
So again, it was all a littlebit adjacent.
It's not completely turning toa new industry, but it was all a
little bit.
You know it's related.
So, um, I worked forrich Coffeebut I didn't want to be hired
on staff.
They've asked me to be hired onstaff, but I wanted to stay a

(01:04:43):
consultant so I can control myhours.

Daniel Koo (01:04:45):
And you did that kind of purposefully so that you
could spend more time withfamily.

Deborah Kwon (01:04:49):
Yeah, I said I want to only work nine to five,
like literally nine to five, noteight to seven, nine to nine,
literally nine to five, noteight to seven.

Daniel Koo (01:04:58):
Nine to nine.

Deborah Kwon (01:04:58):
Yeah, so because it's an hourly consulting type
role, I left when I needed toleave, so I felt good about
doing that rather than being anemployee, which would have been
much, much harder to do that.

Daniel Koo (01:05:11):
And, as a mother of two, I want to ask you how have
you balanced your professionalambitions with family
responsibility?
I assume that that would bevery difficult to manage.
Did you have a priority in mind, or, I guess, what was your
decision criteria when you weremaking these career decisions?

Deborah Kwon (01:05:30):
So I always said family first.
If there was something wrongwith the kids, I would leave
work immediately.
I was very careful to find ajob that was very close to my
home also, so I could get homein 15 minutes.
So, and at this time the kidswere going to preschool, so I
would drop them off at preschooland I had a full-time nanny and

(01:05:50):
then I was able to just managefor a few years like that.
But yeah, the priority was thekids, for sure.
Yeah, so you just have to makesure that I was flexible, so I
made sure that I had my hourslike very clear.

Daniel Koo (01:06:04):
I think part of what kind of gave you a lot of
advantages is your career untilbefore having kids were actually
it was actually like a lot,like you've gone through a lot
and you've done a lot beforethat and I think that gave you
kind of like the leverage andthe I guess the possibility of
having a flexible kind ofworking environment.

Deborah Kwon (01:06:23):
I think so.
I think that's a good way toput it.
I felt very confident that Icould just say this is what I
want, and if they said no, Icould just walk.

Daniel Koo (01:06:31):
I just go find something else.

Deborah Kwon (01:06:33):
Yeah, I'll just find something else.
But I did develop a really goodrelationship with the CEO that
I'm still in contact with todayand I think one of the things
that was helpful when we wereworking together is whenever I'd
write presentations especiallylike board of directors or any
big decisions when we'd gothrough the deck he'd always

(01:06:53):
have a question and I'd alwayssay it's on the next page or
it's later.
So I think he loved that.
He loved that I wouldanticipate his questions and I
would answer it eventually andhe always said I love that you
were answering my questions.
I would say, whenever you'representing, just anticipate what

(01:07:14):
the questions are going to be,because they're going to poke we
used to say everyone's going topoke holes at all your
assumptions like how did youthink of that?
Why I just have an answer forall those things you know.

Daniel Koo (01:07:24):
Make sure it's on the next page.

Deborah Kwon (01:07:26):
Yeah, just be prepared yeah, like anticipate
every question you're going toget, because you're going to
lose credibility, especially ifyou're in a room with people you
don't know and you can't answerbasic questions.
You're done.

Daniel Koo (01:07:38):
Right, that's true.
So after you have kids and youhave a family now, did you
continue working part-time?

Deborah Kwon (01:07:53):
So after the Diedrich, actually what happened
was the company was sold, andthat was the goal of the project
was to sell the company.
So the project was sold.
So that was done.
I worked there full time fouryears and then around that same
time I was looking.
I knew that the end was nearfor that project.
And that's when I talked to mycollege roommate who said she
was looking for other people todo this job.

(01:08:13):
They want somebody who had someengineering experience and
business experience.
So I applied for that job andshe supported me and I was able
to do that for 16 years now.

Daniel Koo (01:08:26):
Wow.
As we're nearing the end of theepisode, I want to ask if
there's any advice to people whowant to have a family and a
career at the same time.
I think the audience could beanyone.
Really, nowadays, everyonewants both and we feel like it's
very tough, so is theresomething you can say, jess?

Deborah Kwon (01:08:46):
It is really hard.
I think, if you can have a bossor a mentor who can allow the
flexible hours and with thishybrid remote work that allows
the flexible hours, so that'shelpful, so that at certain
parts of the day you could beavailable for the kids, but then
you're working at night also,so the flexibility and also you

(01:09:09):
want to have some purpose inyour job.
I think if you're just, youknow, if you are lucky enough to
be able to feel connected toyour job, feeling like you're
doing something important,that'll motivate you to get
through balancing work andfamily.

Daniel Koo (01:09:25):
As one of the last questions to whom would you
recommend this kind of financecareer and to whom would you not
recommend it?

Deborah Kwon (01:09:34):
would you not recommend it?
So finance is so broad, sofinance means so many different
things in different industriesand the job titles are different
.
Like the FP&A is very differentthan strategic planning and
finance, right.
But I think someone who's highlevel thinking, very analytical
obviously but engineers lovefinance because it's a lot of

(01:09:57):
numbers and it's a lot ofanalysis.
I don't think personalitymatters as much, but someone
who's attention to detail andwho can communicate the numbers.
I think what makes you morevaluable than just being a
financial person and just beingable to run numbers is to
communicate what those numbersmean and what kind of action you

(01:10:21):
should take because of thosenumbers and what the trends are
and just what's the insight fromthe numbers.
So somebody who has goodinsight and communication skills
to be able to articulate that.

Daniel Koo (01:10:32):
Let's say there's someone out there listening and
they want to do exactly what youdo.
What is one piece of adviceyou'd get to that person?

Deborah Kwon (01:10:41):
But what exactly do I do?
There's nothing exactly that Ido, so I have no idea.
I just followed whatever was infront of me and just made the
best decision I could at thattime.
So just follow your heart, youknow, ask a lot of questions and
just try things, just try newthings, and I don't know pray.

Daniel Koo (01:11:06):
Yeah, I think that's fair.
Obviously, there isn't ananswer.
You know one answer that'sgoing to rule them all right.
So we talked about your past,we talked about your current.
You know your present.
Where is your career headed?
Is there anything that you'relooking forward to in the future
?

Deborah Kwon (01:11:23):
I'm focusing more on nonprofits and just kind of
giving back and seeing where mytalents could help in the
community.
So right now I'm working withspecial needs kids for my
friends foundation.
But I mean, I've been studyinga lot of different foundations
and they're doing so many greatthings and I think I said before

(01:11:43):
I want to try to see what Icould do for the Asian American
community, you know, in SouthernCalifornia and beyond.
So you know, I'm learning howto do like donor decks and just
how to convince donors to donateto your cause, and that's a
whole new area that I'm studying.
But it's like doing a pitchdeck for a startup.
It's really the same thing,which is fun.

(01:12:06):
So, yeah, we'll see.
Like, even at this age, I stilldon't know what I want to do,
so it's still continuing.

Daniel Koo (01:12:12):
Yep, thank you so much for your time.
I think you know a few things.
That I've learned today is yournetwork is very important and
although that word is a little,you know, it could be a little
weird.

Deborah Kwon (01:12:26):
Off-putting for people, yeah, off-putting.

Daniel Koo (01:12:28):
But I think it's essentially the people you meet
and the connections you makealong the way.
I also learned that you know,don't be afraid to switch paths
and going from engineering tofinance.
We've actually had an exampleof that before.
Our first episode with EdenWarner was kind of similar, and
I think that's something that weshould always keep in mind.
You know, there could be awhole career out there that you

(01:12:51):
did not expect, and listening toyour friends, listening to your
mentors, seemed like it gaveyou a lot of ideas.
So that's something that I wantto take forward and also
implement in my life.
So thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.

Deborah Kwon (01:13:04):
No, absolutely.
I think it's always great to becurious and you know, when you
see somebody doing aninteresting job, just ask them
what do you do?
I mean, people love talkingabout themselves, so ask them
about them.

Daniel Koo (01:13:16):
All right, thank you so much.

Deborah Kwon (01:13:18):
Thank you.