When No Clear Path Exists, You Create Your Own

What happens when you approach life with no boundaries? When you see the entire world as your playground and every experience as an opportunity to learn? Rawan's extraordinary journey provides a masterclass in creating a life and career defined by passion rather than convention.<br><br>From her earliest years surrounded by artist parents who responded to her creative impulses with "Why not?" to her global education spanning continents, Rawan cultivated a truly cosmopolitan outlook that's guided her varied and impactful career. Her path cuts across traditional sectors—from advising Korea's National Assembly to working with the UN Security Council, from financial institutions to founding her own publishing company meaningfully named "Illuminating Every Path."<br><br>The wisdom Rawan shares comes from concrete experience, not theory. When feeling uncertain about your direction, she suggests it might be because there is no established path—and that's your opportunity to create one. "Live your life like a buffet," she advises, sampling widely before committing deeply. This approach has special relevance in our rapidly changing world where careers span longer than ever before.<br><br>What sets Rawan apart isn't just her impressive resume, but her perspective on success. She distinguishes between authentic connections and merely transactional networking. She values knowledge not as an end but as fuel for creativity and impact. Most importantly, she emphasizes that loving what you do—from the smallest tasks to the grandest visions—is essential for sustained fulfillment.<br><br>Whether you're just starting your professional journey or considering a significant pivot, this conversation offers both practical guidance and profound inspiration. Listen now to discover how embracing a cosmopolitan mindset might illuminate your own perfect path forward.

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Episode Transcript

Rawon (00:00):
So, for example, taking an example of Korea, you know we
are already experiencing agedsociety.
Then think about this.
There's going to be a higherpossibility for you to work
longer too.
Then what questions should youask to yourself?
The first one is this Do Ireally like this is?

(00:22):
Do I really like this?
I mean, during your early 20s,mid 20s and up to just 20s, I
think you should do jobs whereit works that you're super good
at.
But going beyond just good atit, I think you should love
something.
Finding what you really love isreally important.

(00:42):
But then people will come to meand ask another question how do
you find what you love?
Right, there's one answerExperience as many as possible.

Daniel Koo (00:56):
Hey, welcome back to my Perfect Path.
For those of you who are new,I'm your host, daniel Koo, and I
welcome you to season two.
For me, at large, pivotalmoments of my life, such as
applying to new colleges,applying to new jobs or
determining what next careermove is right for me I spend
time researching and findingmentorship to determine what was

(01:17):
the best path for me.
I knew that this struggle wasnot isolated to me.
Everyone struggles with this,simply because we cannot predict
the future.
However, I found something thatis second best to predicting
the future it's learning fromthose ahead of our career and
from those who've seen more andexperienced more.
After all, there are not thatmany problems that have not been
solved yet.

(01:37):
If you've ever felt unsureabout your next career move,
you're in the right place.
Why Not?
Was the common response she gotfrom her pianist mother and
opera singer father.

(01:58):
When Rawan, today's guest, wasgrowing up, starting from her
childhood of creative freedom,an incredible career was just
beginning to sprout up.
Starting from her childhood ofcreative freedom, an incredible
career was just beginning tosprout.
Today's episode is titled myCosmopolitan Path because our
guest's journey spans continentsand disciplines Her
contributions to South Korea'sNational Assembly and the UN
Security Council speak foritself Today.
Raon is founder of MogilbyPublishing, meaning illuminating

(02:21):
every path in Korean, workswith AI, edtech, and advises
public institutions and startups.
A published author of threebooks, she communicates fluently
in four languages, whilepursuing her consistent mission
of creating value through workrelated to world society and
humanity.
In our conversation, rawonshares insights about authentic
relationships over transactionalnetworking, approaching life

(02:43):
like a buffet to discover yourpassions and how sometimes not
having a clear path forwardallows you to create your own.
I think you'll find her storyboth inspiring and practical.
Let's get into it, rawan.
Welcome to my Perfect Path.
I'm thrilled to have you here.

Rawon (02:58):
Thank you so much for having me here, Daniel.

Daniel Koo (03:01):
Yeah, it's such an honor to have someone like you
having me here, daniel.
Yeah, it's such an honor tohave someone like you.
I think, out of the many peopleI talked to, you have such a
great resume.
There's so many twists andturns and I think just from our
previous talks, it's veryintentional, it's very
trailblazing.

Rawon (03:20):
I am.

Daniel Koo (03:22):
And I think that we have so much to learn today.

Rawon (03:25):
Thank you so much yeah.

Daniel Koo (03:26):
So let's kind of dive right in.
Sure, what does a day in thelife look like for you?

Rawon (03:31):
These days I feel like sometimes I feel like I'm a
teenager, Sometimes I'm like ababy, Sometimes I like a mom or
like grandma.
It's because these days I'mdoing something new every day.
So, for example, right now I'mworking at a startup called
Beyond Knowledge, and our firm'smain purpose is to make

(03:54):
knowledge content that's justnot ordinary, but that just goes
beyond the knowledge that wehave.
And to do that, our groupthought that it's really
important to talk to many people.
So even today in the morning, Imean I had some meeting with

(04:15):
some friends at the Bain Company.
So when I talk with them I feellike I'm a consultant and I'm
meeting great people.
But tomorrow I'll be having ameeting with a 14-year-old girl,
and when I have thisconversation with the teenager,
I really have to act like ateenager and think like a
teenager.

(04:35):
So every day these days, it'sso different.
Yeah.

Daniel Koo (04:40):
So day-to-day is very dynamic, is what I'm seeing
.
I think part of that is becauseyou're also involved in a lot
of different things at the sametime.
Yes, could you tell us a littlebit about your publishing
company as well and what yourrole is there?

Rawon (04:55):
Oh okay.
So I'm actually very proud ofmyself because my publishing
company is the first companythat I built in my life.
And just to give you a littlestory about my own publishing
company, the company's name iscalled Mogilbi.
In Korean it actually standsfor 모든 길을 비추는, which means in

(05:19):
English illuminating every path.
So actually in 2021, I used tolive in New York, but I came
back to Korea.
And when I came back to Korea,I was pretty sad to look at the
society that I was living in,because throughout my life,
since my age of 20, I've beenactually doing a lot of

(05:42):
educational volunteer works.
And then, when I came back toKorea in 2021, I called a couple
of my pupils and then I wasasking hey guys, the teacher is
here, I'm back, so how about adinner together?
But then I wasn't able to getin touch with two students, but

(06:05):
later I learned that one wasmissing.
And the other one was yeah, shepassed away.
And usually my students areNorth Korean refugee students or
students who don't have anyguardians or parents.
So really to them I was liketheir sister and mother.
So hearing their story duringthe dinner time, I learned that

(06:30):
not many companies were actuallywilling to take my students as
their employees because of theirpronunciation, accents and
different cultural background.
So I thought, how about I makemy own company and then, if they
work with me at least for anyear, maybe they can get a job?

(06:52):
Yeah, that was the first ideaof having this publishing
company.

Daniel Koo (06:57):
Right.
As we know, the first step isusually the most difficult.

Rawon (07:01):
Yes, because you have no experience.

Daniel Koo (07:03):
Absolutely why would someone pick you?
And that's tough for a lot ofcompanies to kind of oversee.

Rawon (07:09):
Yes, exactly.
But there's a reason why Ichose the publishing company
because I had so many things tosay and to do that.
The best way is sometimes towrite a book or give a lecture
to many audience, and two of mystudents were really good at

(07:30):
editing and drawing.
So I was thinking, if I becomea writer and then if my student
edits a book and then if myother students draw something,
then maybe we can make a companyand then we can sell books.
So that's how it all began.

Daniel Koo (07:49):
And it seemed like you were very prolific as well.
You've already written I thinkwas it more than three books.

Rawon (07:56):
Yes, thankfully it's three books.

Daniel Koo (07:58):
And one of them was recently recommended by the
Washington Post editor-in-chieffor the Seoul and Tokyo office.

Rawon (08:04):
Yes, correct.

Daniel Koo (08:06):
That's absolutely amazing.
You're not only working at astartup, but you also are
maintaining your own publishingcompany.
Is there anything else thatyou're doing at the moment?
I know you're doing somecharity work as well, or social
work.
Could you tell us a little bitabout that?

Rawon (08:24):
I'm really grateful that people love me.
You know there's a thing calledMBTI in Korea and it's super,
super popular among people.
You know like whenever youinterview someone, like the
first question you would ask isoh, what is your MBTI?

Daniel Koo (08:41):
It's a very popular icebreaking.

Rawon (08:43):
Yes, absolutely so.
For example, in my case, mytype is totally a businessman
type and also a leader and adiplomat type.
So I'm a very diplomatic personand I like meeting new people.
So, on a side project, what I'mdoing is actually doing some

(09:04):
consulting works for foreignpolicy and for the government,
and also at the same time I getsome offers from the big
companies about giving a lectureto many employees.
So that's what I do.

Daniel Koo (09:20):
There's so many things that you're doing right
now and I think, as we'll learnin the episode today, there's so
many things that you're doingright now and I think, as we'll
learn, in the episode today.
There's so many things you havedone as well.
I'm really excited to kind ofdig through that and be able to
basically learn and help informourselves On the decisions we
have to make in the future.
So I do want to talk a littlebit about your childhood and how

(09:40):
you grew up.
I think that in and of itselfis a huge story.
I want to know if that kind ofdictates your future.
And if someone had a similarchildhood maybe they can relate.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour childhood and how you grew
up.

Rawon (09:56):
My mom always tells me that I barely cried when I was a
baby, so she told me that itwas actually pretty easy to take
care.
You were a good kid I was a goodkid, yeah, so I think I was a
very happy person since mychildhood, but thankfully, I

(10:17):
think that was possible becauseof my parents.
So my parents are actuallymusicians and artists.
So my parents are actuallymusicians and artists.
So my mom is a pianist and mydad is an opera singer, at the
same time opera director andalso at the same time professor.
So he's got lots of jobs and,luckily, thanks to that culture

(10:48):
during my childhood, you knowlike there are some traits about
artists.
You know like if you want to trysomething, then artists would
usually say, ah, okay, you cantry that, why not?
So I think the sentence why notwas the most common sentence
that I heard when I was young.
So even growing up, during mychildhood, I remember I did lots

(11:08):
of laboratory experiments andalso, I don't know, I was just a
challenger type.
So I challenged everything,Like one day in the morning, if
you just suddenly want to becomea cook, then you cook, and then
all of a sudden, if you want toplay the guitar, then you
become a guitarist, like that.

(11:29):
So it was, I would say, thekeyword freedom.
It's a main keyword that reallydescribes my childhood and
thanks to them I was able totravel almost every country in
Europe able to travel almostevery country in Europe and that

(11:51):
really broadened my horizonwhen I look at the world.
So from that time I think Ibecame a cosmopolitan.
Yeah.

Daniel Koo (11:56):
And the word cosmopolitan is going to be very
important very soon.

Rawon (11:59):
Yes.

Daniel Koo (12:01):
I do want to ask would you describe yourself as a
creative person, as a kid?

Rawon (12:04):
I do want to ask would you describe yourself as a
creative person?
As a kid, I thought that wasnormal for everyone, but at the
end of the day, all the goodfeedback I got was oh, Rowan,
you're very creative.
Yeah, so I didn't know aboutthat.
But actually yesterday andthree days ago my mom was
cleaning the room.

(12:24):
Yesterday and three days ago mymom was cleaning the room and
then we found out this huge boxthat's full of my old paintings.
And then when I looked at thepainting that I did in the very
old days, I noticed that Ialways cut the paper and then
put a straw on the images sothat I could make a moving image

(12:49):
.

Daniel Koo (12:50):
Oh, wow.

Rawon (12:51):
Yeah, I know right, that's very creative, I know.

Daniel Koo (12:56):
That's very creative .
I must say yeah.

Rawon (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I really thought that was normal
and I thought every kid would dothat.
But then no, it was really methat was normal and I thought
every kid would do that.
But then no, it was really mewho did that.
And then I remember that allthe teachers that taught me said
oh, you're actually verycreative.
How about you do some paintingsor artworks when you grow up?

(13:21):
But the funny thing is that Inever wanted to become an artist
because I know the life ofartists.
So, for some reason, ratherthan becoming an artist, I
always wanted to be a personengaging with topics, with
international affairs and justmaking a better world.

Daniel Koo (13:41):
And, as we'll learn throughout the episode, just
making a better world and, aswe'll learn throughout the
episode, one of the adjectives Iwant to describe you is
limitless, and there's so manycategories that you touch
throughout your career, that Ican't help but think that that
all started when you were youngand you were raised in a very
open environment where you wereallowed to be creative and think

(14:03):
about different topics.
Yes, so we named the episodetoday my Cosmopolitan Path.
Circling back to the word thatyou mentioned, Could you share
with us why you chose thatadjective and the inspiration
behind it?

Rawon (14:19):
I would say I think I'm a very cosmopolitan person but at
the same time international.
Because, like you said, I thinkI'm a very cosmopolitan person
but at the same timeinternational because, like you
said, I think I'm prettylimitless.
I try not to set any boundariesin my life.
So even now I feel like I'm ina Cosmo of Daniels because I'm

(14:40):
having this wonderfulconversation with you.
I'm having this wonderfulconversation with you and, as I
told you before, you know, likeduring our pre-interview, I
really do feel that when I'mmeeting someone, I really do see
the person as a living history.
You know, you're bringing yourpast, present and future.

(15:01):
That's why, when I'm havingthis conversation with that
counterpart, I feel like I'm inher or his world.
So I feel very welcomed by theirCosmo.
So each time I visit theirCosmo, I become very happy.
But at the same time, the worldis cosmopolitan itself.

(15:24):
Right?
I'm a person who studiedinternational affairs, foreign
policy, so whenever I visitcountries, I feel like I'm their
national.
I feel like I do have theirpassport, I don't know.
I just feel that I want to bepart of their community and
their society and the world andthe culture.

(15:47):
So that's why I put itcosmopolitan, because throughout
my life I really want to visitas many places as possible and
also explore their world.

Daniel Koo (16:01):
I think part of that as well being able to see
someone's past, present andfuture.
You have to be open and willingto share and I really thank you
for participating on thispodcast because you're willing
to share your cosmos with us tolearn.
Let's go back to your childhood, where you're living, to share
your cosmos with us to learn.
Let's go back to kind of likeyour childhood, where you're
living in multiple countries.

(16:23):
I know you've also been inSouthern California.
Yeah, Could you tell us alittle bit about your time there
?

Rawon (16:30):
Oh sure, that was actually one of the best times I
had in my life.
So I was in the city calledIrvine throughout my teenage.
So I think it was like I thinkfrom 13 to 16 or something, I
don't know.
I think I'm getting older, so Ikeep forgetting the age.

(16:51):
But yeah, I spent my middleschool time there and also a
couple of years of high schoolthere, and I went there because
of my father's occupation.
So, like I told you before, myfather is a professor and thanks
to that, we were able toexperience a program called

(17:12):
Exchange Professor Program.
So we went to Irvine and thenthere I couldn't speak English
at all.
Yeah, I mean, I loved Korea somuch so I thought, why do I need
to study English?
I mean, I'm good at Korean, sowhy do I need to do that?
That was the first remark Isaid to my parents.

(17:33):
I said to my parents, but then,when I landed in Irvine, I was
thinking like, oh my God, thiscity is so amazing.
I think I can restart my newlife here.
I see, yeah, and then you know,like, just challenge everything
here.
So there I was able to meetdifferent people coming from

(18:00):
different cultures andbackgrounds.
I mean in Korea it's prettyhard to meet American friends,
japanese friends and Chinesefriends and Mexican friends too,
but in the States I was able tolearn English, spanish and
Japanese and Chinese at the sametime, just to you know like
make good relationship with yourfriends.

Daniel Koo (18:21):
So it seems like you were exposed to a very diverse
kind of population set.
Yes, Also, I do want to mentionyou speak so many languages.

Rawon (18:30):
I believe so.

Daniel Koo (18:33):
You speak English, korean, french and Spanish.

Rawon (18:38):
Actually, in terms of speaking, I do speak Korean,
English, Japanese and Spanish,but when it comes to reading the
newspaper, I think I'm prettygood at French Spanish, yeah.

Daniel Koo (18:50):
Do you feel like your interest in languages and
kind of different countries kindof started at this point of
your life, or was it before orafter?

Rawon (18:58):
Oh, I think my time in Irvine actually gave me huge
inspiration to just purely enjoythe beauty of foreign languages
.
So, for example, in Korea, ifyou want to say hi, you can
actually say did you have lunch?
That's part of greetings too,right?

(19:20):
And also, if you want to sayhello, in Japanese, it is
konnichiwa, but actually kon isthis and nichi is they and wa is
like is or am in English.
So it's basically asking how isyour day Right?

(19:43):
This is so interesting, right?
So if you learn foreignlanguages, then you get to
explore their mindsets andthoughts and how they actually
think.
So I was amused by the beautyof the foreign languages.
So that's how I got intolearning different cultures and

(20:03):
international topics.

Daniel Koo (20:05):
After that you moved back to Korea and you spend
your high school years in Korea.
What was kind of going throughyour mind at that point, Like
were you just trying to get tocollege, or like did you have
kind of an interest in mind, Didyou have a passion at that
point in your life?

Rawon (20:25):
Oh no, that was actually.
You know, like in life, youhave your zenith and you have
your nether.
I would say those times inKorea I would describe it as my
nether, Because I was super goodat studying before, but then it
was pretty hard to adjust to anew life.
As I came back, I actually wentto a high school called Hanyang

(20:50):
Foreign Language High Schooland as you know, it's one of the
most great high schools.

Daniel Koo (21:00):
Usually the foreign high schools, usually the
foreign high schools in Koreaare very competitive.
The studying is very intense.
A lot of people who graduatewill actually go to great
colleges, yes, and go on to havegreat alumni connections as
well.

Rawon (21:17):
I think that's all part of it, but it is really intense,
it is intense.
Connections as well I thinkthat's all part of it, but it is
really intense, it is intense.
So when I got to HanyangForeign Language High School, I
really loved the fact that Icould speak in different
languages.
That was actually my favoritepart.
But then, other than that, Ifeel like, oh my God, I think
I'm a machine like studying justfor the college entrance.

(21:40):
But then, luckily, my parentswere not that type, so I was
able to explore many things.
So, for example, uh, one day Ijust wanted to try going for
paris in france.
Just, I don't know why, youknow, like you have your
adolescent time, you just wantedto go there.

(22:01):
Yeah, I just wanted to go therefor some, without any reason.
Yeah, without any reason.
So I thought about a couple ofways to do that.
And then one day I saw thishuge advertisement on online
saying that anyone canparticipate for the

(22:21):
international advertisementfestival that is hosted in
France can.
So I saw this banner and then Ithought like voila, this is
totally for me.
Like that year I was actually17, going up to the senior year,
but then I don't know why, butI just wanted to try that and

(22:43):
then, luckily, I became thefinalist going for that festival
.
So there I was able to reallyjust experiment my thoughts and
then asking whether if it'sreally workable not just for me
but also with the entire society.

Daniel Koo (23:02):
Just to give some context around how for lack of a
better word insane this was,because in high school you know
that's kind of the peak of study, right, and I don't think
anyone can imagine going to adifferent country to do anything
other than study for the finalentrance exam or college
entrance exam.
So I want to note howadventurous that was and risky

(23:28):
that was to a lot of parents.
Did you still?
Your parents were verysupportive of this.

Rawon (23:35):
Oh, absolutely, actually, I, I actually woke my parents
up at 2 am.
Yeah, when I saw that banner Ididn't even knock on the door.
I just, you know, like, I justgot into their room and then,
you know, like, waking them upand saying, hey, parents, I have

(23:58):
this amazing news I found a wayto go to France.
How about I participate?
For this festival?
It's a super, super, supergreat festival that everyone
joins from different countriesand I think I should be the one
to do that.
And then I remember my dad waslike, ah, okay, whatever, do it

(24:22):
if you want.
And my mom was like she's verykind and considerate.
So she was saying do you reallywant to do that?
This is your final year foryour high school, but if you do
that, you know, like sheexplained some of the risks that
I could experience, but I don'tknow why.
But I just wanted to try.

(24:43):
And then I just responded Ireally want to try.
And then my mom became sosupportive of this challenge.
But then one day we got a callfrom our high school.
The principal called what?

Daniel Koo (24:57):
are you doing?
Yeah, what are you doing?
Yeah, what are you?

Rawon (24:58):
doing you gotta prepare for the college entrance and
then my parents were like noteveryone has to go to college.

Daniel Koo (25:06):
My, maybe my daughter is different that's
very open-minded, especiallybeing korean parents.
Yeah, that tend to be veryfocused and very caring about
their children's kind of future.

Rawon (25:18):
Yes.

Daniel Koo (25:19):
Which is why I think they may sometimes be very
intense about studying andthings like that.
Yeah, it's very important inKorea, in Korean culture as well
.
Absolutely, I'm still amazed byyour parents' openness to allow
you to try this.
What do you think are somethings that you've learned
throughout that experience andwhat did you kind of take on
from?

Rawon (25:39):
that During the process of making this, you know, like a
concept note for the commercialthat I had to submit for the
festival I learned that evenartists and even producers have
to be very, very wise and smart.

(26:00):
Like back in the old days Ithought, you know, like people
who are not interested instudying were aiming to become
an artist or something like that, but then at the end of the day
, no, actually they're the oneswho have the deepest level of
knowledge and then they're sowise and I think that wisdom

(26:21):
helps them think more creativethan the normal citizens.
So during that process Ilearned that I think maybe
there's a reason why peopleactually go to college, and I
wanted to go to college too alla sudden because I really wanted
to grasp more ideas and thencollect more creative topics so

(26:46):
that I make better commercialsor media for my audience.
So I think that was a startingpoint for me to engage deeply
into studying.

Daniel Koo (26:58):
Interesting point for me to engage deeply into
studying.
Interesting so before maybe youthought college was optional or
you didn't necessarily thinkthat was the path for you.

Rawon (27:05):
No, not at all.

Daniel Koo (27:06):
But then when you saw those people kind of create
things that were very relevantand impactful and you realized
those people all went to schooland you realize that you want to
study more and kind of learnthe value of certain education.

Rawon (27:23):
Yes, absolutely so.
For example, I mean, you don'tneed to go to college.
If you're so passionate aboutlearning by yourself and if
you're so confident incollecting lots of information
from the books or YouTubechannels or any programs that
you're exploring, then I thinkis it really necessary to go to

(27:46):
college?
That's an opinion I have, butat that time I knew myself.
I knew that I needed someonewho could help me gain some
great wisdom and knowledge, andI thought that perhaps college
could do that for me.

Daniel Koo (28:04):
You know, by paying tuition, exactly, yeah, so I
think that was awfully humblehumble of you actually, oh thank
you.
Because at that moment it'skind of hard to change that kind
of mindset.
But it seems like you realizedthe value of education and you
wanted to kind of search forsomething more like you kind of
mindset.
But it seems like you realizedthe value of education and you
wanted to kind of search forsomething more.
Like you kind of realized therewas something beyond what you
could personally pick up andgrab.

(28:26):
Okay, so now you go to EwhaUniversity and you did your
bachelor's and your master'sthere.
What did you study and why didyou choose that?

Rawon (28:37):
Okay, so actually I studied international affairs.
To be more specific, I studiedinternational law and diplomacy
and foreign policy during myundergraduate years, and Yihua
was a school my parents stronglyrecommended.
One of the special points aboutYihua is that it's all girls'

(29:01):
university, so the officialtitle is Ewha Women's University
.
It's the biggest university forfemales in Korea, and my mom
was especially interested inEwha because she's from a
different university.
But then all of a sudden shecame to me and then asking

(29:21):
whether I would be interested inapplying for this school, and
then I asked her why.
And then she said you're suchan independent person.
And she said I think IHWA girlsare very confident and very
independent, so why don't youmake friends there?
and you know, just live a goodlife there.

(29:43):
So I really loved my times atEwha and the best thing I loved
the most was a program calledKnowledge Frontier Program.
So it's like one professor hasto take care of eight students.
So it's like you have Onlyeight.

(30:04):
Eight students.
Yeah, you have to have dinneror lunch with your supervising
professor, like almost every day.
Yeah, then, if you keep doingthat, you feel like you're
having dinner with a familymember, right?
And luckily I had an amazingprofessor and he was actually

(30:24):
the one to recommend the themesthat are covered in politics and
foreign policy.
At first I wanted to become alawyer, but then my professor
said no, I don't think so.
How about you make laws instead?
Because lawyers are engaging into certain events after those

(30:50):
events happen, so it's like anex-post job, but politics and
lawmaking jobs are usually exante, so you can prevent
something from happening badly,right.
So that was the idea I got frommy supervisor, and that

(31:11):
experience was amazing.

Daniel Koo (31:14):
Interesting.
I think that's a very uniqueway of looking at it.
You're saying that for lawyers,they're actually people who
handle cases that have alreadyhappened.
It's kind of like deciding whatjust happened, actually like
kind of defining what justhappened.
Yeah, whereas with politics andlaw, you're trying to get ahead

(31:36):
of it and you, you want to.
You're the people that arecreating those events yes, in a
way um, so I think that'sactually really good for us to
hear, because many peoplestruggle with like what, what to
what, to choose with theirmajor I see um their careers and
to be able to know this aheadof time.
I think valuable, absolutely.

Rawon (31:58):
Just to give you a couple of advice for some people who
are struggling to find their ownpath.
I mean, I don't think I havefound my own path yet.
That's why I'm being verycosmopolitan.
But this is one good advice Igot from my supervisors and
mentors, and my parents too Ifyou find the one, you don't

(32:23):
hesitate, you just get in, likethe one I found during my high
school years.
I don't know why, but I justwanted to become like a
godmother in the media set.
You know, that's why Iparticipated for the

(32:43):
advertisement film festival.
But all of a sudden I gotinterested in international
affairs and there I was able tomeet lots of people and by
working with them I learned thatmaybe I'm a person who make
things happen.
I'm a person who make thingshappen, not just protecting it
at the end.
So if you're really passionateabout making something or

(33:05):
creating something, then justbecome a creator, not just
YouTube, but you can create thevalues that were not existing in
the past.
You can become a new pathfinder in tree blazer.

Daniel Koo (33:20):
So yeah, yeah, one thing that I do want to tell
this story this was justyesterday that happened, but
while we were eating.
You mentioned that.
You know, when you feel likeyou're lost because you have too
many paths, it may be becausethere is no path.
Maybe there is no path thatreally calls out to you, and

(33:43):
I've loved that saying.
I think that's going to impactmy life and how I think about my
career going forwards, becauseit seems like when you're really
passionate about something andyou love something, you know
immediately it's not somethingthat's.
There's no hesitation.
There's no hesitation at all,Really thank you for saying that

(34:04):
I think you should say it againsomehow, but that's something
that I think is something I'mlearning from your kind of
journey and your insights hereGoing forwards.
After your education at Yiha,what's something that you dove
into?

Rawon (34:21):
During my undergraduate years at Ewha, I was exposed to
many international affairsthemes and chances that are
relevant to that.
So the first thing I did wasfor the G20 Seoul Summit and
then after that, my supervisorrecommended a position at a

(34:41):
political party in Korea.
There I was able to see theworld, really the world that I
have never known before.
So, although I'm Korean, thatwas the first Korea I saw in
entirety.

Daniel Koo (34:59):
I would say so you mean in the context of the
entire world.

Rawon (35:02):
Yes, exactly.
And then after that I thoughtI'm a person who's more
interested in internationalpolitics than domestic politics,
so I decided to studyinternational development at
IHWA again for my master'sdegree, and then there, because
I had an amazing professor hisname is Im-mi Kim.

(35:23):
He's actually the president ofIHWA Women's University at the
moment.
Oh, wow, yeah, wow.
And thanks to her I was able toengage in many, many foreign
aid policy projects and I wasable to write many articles and
books with her too.
So that actually dove me intothe field of international

(35:48):
development further, and thanksto that I traveled to Ethiopia
and Cambodia and then really sawhow foreign aid projects were
running in those countries.

Daniel Koo (36:01):
I just want to note how big of a deal this is
actually To be part of the G20International Summit is.
I mean, it's one of the mostbiggest international events in
Korea that can be held and Ithink it was partly due to
having such a good mentor andhaving a close relationship with
them.
Yes, did you do anythingspecific to cultivate this

(36:24):
relationship?

Rawon (36:24):
or was this kind?

Daniel Koo (36:25):
of natural.

Rawon (36:27):
I ate a lot.
I'm a foodist, I love foods andwhenever having dinner with
them, I think I was the only oneeating the remaining bread and
just you know like finishingevery dish they ordered.
So you know like, when youvisit grandfather's or

(36:48):
grandmother's house, you knowlike they love it if you finish
everything, yeah.
And I was that student.
So they loved me a lot justbecause I ate a lot and I think
thanks to that, they asked lotsof questions to me and I also
asked lots of questions to them.

Daniel Koo (37:07):
So I think that's how we built our rapport people
separately as well, or like didthey reach out to you?
I'm wondering if there'ssomething that we can do in our
lives to cultivate a similarrelationship.

Rawon (37:26):
Oh, I love things that are very genuine and authentic,
so I try not to make any, youknow, like artificial networks.
So it's like this I totallybelieve in the power of
intuition.
So, for example, when you'relooking at a person B, if you
like that person, then just gotalk to her or him, yeah, but if

(37:50):
you don't feel like to do that,you don't need to.

Daniel Koo (37:54):
No need to force it.

Rawon (37:55):
Yeah, you don't need to force it.
I think every human being isborn with their own instinct and
intuition and I truly believethat everyone has their own
frequency.
You know the vibration, so ifthat matches and if that
resonates each other, thenyou're just automatically, you

(38:16):
know, like thinking that, voila,I should go talk and then
become a friend.

Daniel Koo (38:21):
So so you kind of approached it in a very
authentic, genuine way, whereit's not really oh, I just I
need to talk to more people.
I just I need to get in contactwith these people and I think
that really perhaps helped inthe way.
I'm sure they felt it as wellthat it was very genuine.

Rawon (38:40):
One thing I want to mention is this you know, like
in the beginning I told you thatthese days I'm talking to
teenagers or people in their 60sor 50s, or even like CEO level.
If you have an intention, Idon't think that works.
Yeah.
So, for example, let's sayyou're studying something.

(39:03):
Let's say you're studyingfinance, so you want to get a
job at a financial institution.
That's why maybe you could havethis feeling that, oh, I think
I got to talk to some people whoare working in those areas.
But if that intention is mainlyto get a job, I don't think

(39:24):
that network is going to end ina good way, because everything
you do is human-based.
So you're a human and I'm ahuman being too.
If we have a good conversation,then we are happy, right.
But if you only talk about thethings that you want, then don't

(39:44):
you think that you're beingused and exploited by someone?
I don't think anyone shouldhave that feeling, and once
someone has that feeling, then Ithink that relationship is not.

Daniel Koo (39:58):
It's already kind of .

Rawon (39:59):
Yeah, it's already gone.

Daniel Koo (40:00):
It's already gone.

Rawon (40:01):
Yeah.

Daniel Koo (40:02):
I think that's very good insight on how to approach
networking.
I think sometimes the termnetworking itself makes it
really weird because it seemslike you have to force the
relationship right.
But it seems like we shouldkind of approach it in a more
genuine way and in a more humanway.

Rawon (40:20):
Absolutely.

Daniel Koo (40:22):
More or less the correct way to expand your
network.

Rawon (40:25):
I actually do host lots of, lots of networking events
and meeting events forundergraduate students and also
graduate school students,because I know that they want
some opportunities right.
But what I mean by networkingand meeting events, I actually

(40:48):
do care a lot about the quality,and what I mean by the quality
is the quality of the missionthat you're thinking.
So, for example, like I toldyou before, if your aim is only
to get a good job and earndecent money, then I highly urge
you to seek Warren Buffett oranyone who's really good at

(41:11):
making money.
But the network itself, I thinkit should be very
value-oriented.
So I know that, daniel, you'redoing this to introduce lots of
contents for those who areactually struggling a lot about
their career.
If you host that networkingevent with that value, I think

(41:35):
lots of people are going to comein.
But if that's only for profitor just for yourself, I don't
think people are going to sharethe authentic value of it.

Daniel Koo (41:48):
I think focusing on the quality is actually a very
big thing we can take away.
I've been to many networkingevents that seem to not have a
very strong mission or a verystrong idea and those networking
events tend to not really theydon't really give you a lot of
results.
Actually, you go there, youmeet 20 plus people and you're

(42:12):
sure that you've had aconversation with them, but you
don't remember anything.
And you know, really talk to thepeople ever again and I think
kind of making sure you have thequality up to standard is
important there.
So let's go into the next fewthings that you've done in
politics.

(42:33):
So you've worked in a politicalparty as an internship and
you've also worked at theresearch institution regarding
international politics.
Yes, could you tell us abouthow competitive it was for you
to get in and also how you chosethis specific institution?

Rawon (42:54):
I didn't choose the path, chose me.
No, I love that.

Daniel Koo (42:59):
Yeah, you love that.

Rawon (43:00):
Yeah, I think I make that slogan for you.
So, for example, you know, likeI told you about the lots of
research projects that I wasdoing with my supervisor and
then, while I was doing that,she was asking whether I would
be interested in working as afull-time researcher for the

(43:20):
institute that she founded and Iwas thinking, why not, yeah?
So I just got in naturally, andthen it wasn't competitive at
all.
So it only actually becomescompetitive if you really have
fierce passion.
And then you know this mentalstress that makes you think that

(43:46):
you have to do this.
But in my case I was veryrelaxed and I didn't even think
about going for that researchinstitution.
The leader just said Do youwant to?

Daniel Koo (44:02):
do it.

Rawon (44:04):
And I said yes, why not?

Daniel Koo (44:06):
And I'm sure if this was the wrong opportunity for
you, you would have said no, butwhat were some things that made
you say yes?
So was it the people, was itthe topic, or was it the
institution itself?

Rawon (44:19):
I was very drawn to a couple of points on a contract.
It said that I have to travel alot and I was like, damn, you
can travel a lot.

Daniel Koo (44:31):
For free.
For free, while getting paid.

Rawon (44:34):
Yes, and I thought that was perfect.
And you know, like I told youbefore, I traveled almost every
country in Europe and then Ispent my teenage life in the
States.
But at the time, during myearly to mid-20s, I was thinking
I really want to go todeveloping countries and then

(44:56):
see how things are working thereand how people live there.
As a person who has studiedinternational development, I had
this desire to look at realityfrom the true reality, not just
from the textbook that I wasreading.
So while I was reading thecontract, I was really, really

(45:20):
attracted to points you know,like stating that you have to
travel a lot, and in my mind Iwas like thank you so much.
So, as a young person, to go todeveloping countries and the
third world, you've got to getlots of injections.

Daniel Koo (45:40):
Immunizations and things like that.

Rawon (45:42):
Yeah, and I was thinking, oh, I think I can handle this
during my 20s, but if I have todo that, you know, like after
you know, like the age of 50 or55, I don't think I can do it.

Daniel Koo (45:58):
Part of it was because you were young, you knew
you could kind of handle the.

Rawon (46:03):
Absolutely.
The sacrifice that comes withtraveling a lot and going
through these developingcountries yeah, I thought, uh, I
thought it was totally okay tonot not take shower for three
days, and sometimes in one ofthe one of the examples that I
had in ethiopia was thatalthough you shampoo your hair
for like five times, still thedust would come out.

(46:28):
And even your nose, still thedust would come out.
And one time I was reallylaughing out loud in the shower
room because I cleaned myself somuch, but then still the dust
come out.
So, but still.
That experience was sointeresting to me, yeah, so Kind

(46:50):
of going forwards as well.

Daniel Koo (46:52):
I know you worked at international security and
defense policy related jobs inthe future.
How did the previous job kindof help you for the next one?

Rawon (47:02):
Not even the next one actually, because you know like
if you study international lawand diplomacy, then you get to
explore both themessimultaneously, so international
development on one side andinternational security on the
other side.
So it was pretty easy for me toprepare for every topic that I

(47:23):
have to deal with in the themeunder the umbrella of
international affairs, but justto share some of the stories.
While traveling in somedeveloping countries I was
thinking maybe I should studyinternational security more
deeply because thinking aboutthe world, sometimes the real

(47:47):
power, politics, ruleseverything.
That's how I actually began togain more United Nations or the

(48:10):
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, butthen, luckily, I got a call
from the National Assembly'sSpeaker's Office working as a
foreign affairs advisor andpolicy analyst.

Daniel Koo (48:24):
So there you kind of had the opportunity to be a
political aid, being an advisor,and from what we talked before
you created many drafts for thebill like the first drafts.
For you to work there.
Did that feel like you werefinally making actual change?
Did that feel like verydifferent?

(48:46):
Because I think previously itwas a lot about kind of
exploring and investigating whatthe real world looks like, and
to me it looks like there was atransition here where it feels
like you're implementing change.
How was that kind of transitionfor you?

Rawon (49:03):
I think it actually depends on what perspectives you
have.
So, for example, to me, thedefinition of change actually
covers two realms.
So, for example, the first onewould be the internal change I
have and the other one is achange that you really see in

(49:23):
reality.
From my early to mid-20s, Ithink I had a lot of internal
changes.
So, to put it that way, Ialready saw many changes.
But while working at theNational Assembly, it was
actually a perfect time to talkwith many people.

(49:43):
So, for example, if you're justa researcher or an analyst on
one topic, then there's atendency that you only talk to a
couple of people who only dothat right.
But the thing about politics andpolicies is that you got to
meet people who actuallydisagree with you too.

(50:04):
Interesting, yeah.
So in the beginning it waspretty hard for me to adjust to
a new life like that.
You know, like when you'remaking a policy or bills, you
try to talk with people whoagree with you so that you've
passed the bill very fast.
But if you keep doing that,you're actually ruining the

(50:28):
society.
So there I was thinking maybethe change I should have is
talking with many people whoshare totally different views
and perspectives.
Wow, yeah, so by just talkingwith them, you already witnessed
the change inside of you.
And the power of bills and lawsis that it actually takes some

(50:53):
time to see the real change, butstill just the fact that you
issued a bill makes some peoplevery happy and confident about
their life, so that's some kindof changes in the real impact I
saw.

Daniel Koo (51:11):
That's absolutely fantastic.
I think it's a very importantpoint that you put out that
oftentimes you know you have tomeet people that are willing to
challenge you and have reallygood arguments against actually.
Because you know, once youlisten to those people, you're
able to improve your idea andyour resolution and that way you

(51:32):
can make more people happy andyou can help more people expand
the scope of your influence.
I think that's something we can.
I don't know how we canimplement that in our regular
lives, but to me it seems likewhen you have an idea for a
company or anything, you shouldalways look for ways to improve

(51:54):
and look for people who arewilling to tell you what's wrong
with it as well, which doesn'tmean you know you should feel
discouraged.
But in the theme of kind ofgrowth, I think that's really
important.

Rawon (52:08):
In terms of growth.
Since you mentioned about it,to apply this logic in reality
and also in your life, the bestway is to say this sentence Can
you help me?
I don't know, I'm a person whoneeds lots of help.

(52:31):
I only know this perspective.
But if I work with you, I thinkI can grow and also, at the
same time, I think the entiresociety will grow.
So can you be my partner?
That was the approach I took.

Daniel Koo (52:47):
Wow, that's a very humble approach and I love it.

Rawon (52:51):
But this is true because I need so many help, and then I
just wanted to be honest as muchas possible to my counterparts.

Daniel Koo (53:01):
I think, as much as we like to shine ourselves, I
think that's a very importantpoint as well to make sure you
get the help when you need it.
Yes, and you don't have to doeverything alone, and that's
something that I'm trulylearning from this conversation
as well.
So, right after your work withthe National Assembly in Korea,
you went to Columbia to get yourmaster's.

(53:23):
Yes, what were some of yourdecision criteria to get your
master's in the States?
I think there could have beenso many different factors going
in, like how did you choose thetiming?

Rawon (53:33):
I see that's actually one of the most popular questions I
get from lots of people Like Imean, if I continued my career
at the National Assembly, then Icould have done something much
fancier than now, according tosome people.
But I actually thought in adifferent way.
So, for example, the timingchose me and the school chose me

(53:57):
and the path chose me again.
And the reason I say this isthat while working at the
National Assembly, I noticed onepattern among Korean foreign
policies.
For example, when you look atthe white paper, it's like a
government paper published bythe US government, especially in

(54:20):
terms of foreign policy anddefense policy.
They actually make grandstrategies that target the world
, not just the United States.
But if you look at the whitepaper published by the Korean
government, there's only thisword the strategy of Korea.

(54:42):
I was frustrated.
Why do I need to only look atthe peninsula?
I actually want to look at Asiaand, going beyond Asia, why can
I not look at Africa and theMiddle East and South America?
I want to make a grand strategyfor my country, but if the
Korean government and Koreastill just claims that it's part

(55:06):
of Asia, it's going to be justpart of Asia forever.
And I wanted to break thatlimit by myself and thinking
that at the time, I was havingthis idea that the United States
is a perfect country to studythe grand strategy.
So I decided to go to theStates, and the reason for

(55:30):
attending Columbia University isbecause, actually, my older
sister lived in New York for along year.
So in terms of, you know, likerent, money-wise, my parents
wanted me to go to New York too,and also, at the same time, I
mean New York, it's something.

Daniel Koo (55:50):
I mean, it's a place to be.

Rawon (55:51):
Yeah, it's a place to be, so I thought about going there.
I actually hesitated in betweenHarvard and Columbia University
, but then, indeed, aninteresting episode is that I
actually did some exchangeprogram with Harvard University
during my undergraduate years.
So since I already built someexperience there, I was thinking

(56:16):
maybe New York is the thing forthis time.
So I chose New York, columbiaUniversity and the timing.
I thought I had to do that atthat time before getting too old
.

Daniel Koo (56:30):
I think it's kind of the similar theme that we
talked about, where the timingwas very clear for you.
You felt the need to do it andyou felt like the path was
leading there.
There wasn't as much hesitationor too much overthinking.

Rawon (56:46):
it seemed like no hesitation at all, although I
had my ex-boyfriend at the time.
We were both worried about thefuture, but then still, I was
just having this belief that ifthat path is my path, I think I

(57:06):
would just go without anyhesitation, and at the time, for
some reason, I just really,really wanted to try that path.
So, without any hesitation, Ichose Columbia University, and I
think this is one of thegreatest decisions I've ever
made in my life.

Daniel Koo (57:23):
I also thought it was really interesting how you
said you've been to Harvardthrough the exchange program
during your undergrad.
I think a lot of people wouldgo back to Harvard because
they're familiar with it, but Ithink it's an interesting choice
that you've made, that youchose to go somewhere you
haven't been and I think that'spart of like, part of you and
your personality to do that.

Rawon (57:44):
I mean, first of all, no offense to Harvard community.
Of course, of course, but firstof all, it was super cold in
Cambridge in winter.
I mean New York is super coldtoo.

Daniel Koo (57:57):
Pretty similar too.

Rawon (58:00):
But still, I mean, the amount of the snow they have is
totally different.
It's another level.

Daniel Koo (58:06):
Funny story.
My sister went to TuftsUniversity, which is also in the
Boston area.
She's doing her med school inBoston University right now.
She's lived there for 10 yearsnow.
She always tells me she wantsto escape Boston because of the
snow.
But she's failing to do so.
She's always brought back toBoston.

Rawon (58:29):
Maybe Boston chose her then I think so yeah.

Daniel Koo (58:33):
So, after getting your master's, what was your
next step?
I know you love New York andyou want to stay there.

Rawon (58:49):
Not at all.
Oh, not at all, yeah, not atall.
Actually, new York was just forlike five years, and seven
years at the maximum.
Because, I mean, I love Korea.
I do believe that every citizenis born with a reason.
And now, thinking about my life,when I think about myself, I
thought about these questions.
First of all, why was I born inKorea?

(59:25):
Second, and people and theworld.
So, because I knew myself verymuch, I knew that, after gaining
great insights and experiencein New York, my original plan
was to come back to Korea andwork for the National Assembly

(59:46):
or the government, especially interms of foreign policy or
defense policy.
But at the end of the day, aftermy life in New York, when I
came back, like I told youbefore about how I actually
established my own publishingcompany, throughout my life I
really, really worked hard as apublic servant to serve the

(01:00:10):
nation and people that I love.
But when I looked at the peoplethat I serve, especially my
students, they didn't look happyat all.
Yeah, that's why I thought,look happy at all.

(01:00:31):
Yeah, that's why I thoughtmaybe there are more ways to
make people happy rather thanjust serving for the government
works or the legislative works.
So things I'm doing now is moreabout giving hopeful messages
to the public, and apparentlypeople love this more
Interesting.

Daniel Koo (01:00:49):
I think, that's partially because I don't
collect their texts, yeah, so soI see so there was kind of a
transition for you, kind ofworking in the public sector and
trying to make a change thereand also coming out of the
public sector and going into theprivate sector, and I guess

(01:01:10):
what you're doing right now isvery kind of direct help and
direct messages to the publicthrough the means of, you know,
books and media.
But before that you worked atMorgan Stanley as well.
Oh, yes.
And that was kind of thetransition for you from the
public to private sector.

Rawon (01:01:29):
No, I don't think so.
Even though right now I'mworking at a startup and I do
have my own company and I worklike a writer or something like
that, I still do believe thatI'm actually working in the
public sector, because theultimate goal and the aim I'm
aiming for is for the publicgood.

(01:01:51):
So, for example, even at MorganStanley that was actually part
of the Columbia Morgan Stanleycapstone project there my duty
was to analyze the sanctionsrisk and now thinking about the
key term sanction that isactually under the umbrella of

(01:02:11):
foreign policy.
So to me, I thought by helpingMorgan Stanley do their job, I
was thinking that I was actuallyworking for the citizens too.
At the same time, by preventingbad people from using dirty
money and bad money, I wasthinking that it was for the
public and the citizens.
So, even though the institutionitself could be seen as a

(01:02:35):
private institution, since theultimate goal that I was aiming
for was for the public, I wouldsay it's a public job.

Daniel Koo (01:02:43):
Interesting, yeah, I think that's a very interesting
perspective and an interestingtake on, kind of like a public
job Interesting.
Yeah, I think that's a veryinteresting perspective, an
interesting take on, kind oflike a corporate job if you will
right.
Yeah, let's talk a little bitabout working for the consulate
general and as a legislativeaide in New York, so you're kind
of still in the public sectorin this area, I guess.

(01:03:07):
And it feels like you have moreexperience than ever at this
point to really make a change,and did you have any big ideas
on how to implement thesechanges?

Rawon (01:03:21):
The thing about working as a public officer is that
sometimes, although you reallywant to make a great change
right at the moment, sometimesit takes like five years or 10
years.
My experience at the KoreanConsulate General in New York
City was possible thanks to thedirector that I worked with in

(01:03:41):
the past.
This is why networking andbuilding good rapport and
relationship is so important.
So, for example, when I wasworking at the National
Assembly's Speaker's Office,there was one director who only
dealt matters relating tointernational affairs, and then,

(01:04:02):
because he knew that I wasalready in New York, he called
me and then asked me whether Iwould be interested in working
as his own aide, especially interms of legislation.
So, for example, actually Koreanparliament loves benchmarking

(01:04:23):
laws from different countriesand states too benchmarking laws
from different countries andstates too and one of the things
that we did very deeply at thetime was looking at how people
with disability could actuallybroaden their opportunities, and
that actually included examplessuch as whether it's possible

(01:04:44):
to bring their own.
You know dogs, you know ifyou're blind, if you cannot see,
then you got to have your ownhelper.
But usually dogs do that, butsometimes in many countries,
restaurants or stores, theydon't allow dogs to enter.
They don't allow dogs to enter.

(01:05:04):
So we wanted to look at how theUnited States actually deals
with this matter, and then werecognized that, oh, actually,
they can enter anywhere theywant.

Daniel Koo (01:05:17):
Service animals can enter anything.

Rawon (01:05:20):
Yeah.
So we thought this is prettygood and this is an idea that we
should promote.
So we wrote some drafts andproposals about this and then we
sent this package to theNational Assembly headquarter
and then I think a lot ofassemblymen took a look at it

(01:05:40):
and then one of the assemblymenactually loved our idea and then
deeply engaged in this bill.

Daniel Koo (01:05:48):
I see that's one of the biggest changes that you've
helped build and to be able tokind of pass that bill.

Rawon (01:05:56):
It is actually one of the most interesting because in my
life I have never, ever touchedupon topics like service animals
or dogs.
They could actually make achange in society.
So that was actually the pointwhere I thought that maybe not

(01:06:16):
just human beings everythingcould make a change.

Daniel Koo (01:06:21):
That's why it was pretty, pretty interesting and
so touching to me why it waspretty, pretty interesting and
so touching to me, I guess, likeit was a moment of kind of
horizons kind of broadening, tobe able to think about things in
a more, even more open way,absolutely.
And I think after this job itkind of takes you to the recent
few years where you're, you havemultiple jobs and you're kind

(01:06:46):
of working on your own projects.
Is there anything that you'velearned throughout your career,
If there's a kind of a big themethroughout, something that has
really given you the wisdom or areally good idea to follow and
that has kind of guided youthroughout your career.

Rawon (01:07:05):
I think love is really important, and what I mean by
the definition of love here isloving everything you do.
So, for example, these days, Ireally, really love my team,
especially the CEO I'm workingtogether now.
His name is Joon-hyung and Iintentionally decided to work

(01:07:31):
with him because I know he's agreat guy and I know he's going
to be a super global leader inthe future, and genuinely he's
so kind and he's so warm-hearted.
I think lots of leaders have tobe warm-hearted, but by really

(01:07:56):
working with him, I learned alot about team building and how
it's really possible to makegreat changes by starting from
zero, and I really love the factthat I have this kind of team
at the moment.
But also, at the same time, whatI want to try to say to the
audience about love is that, forexample, some people after
graduating from good schools orif they're from you, know like

(01:08:17):
really really fancy backgrounds.
Then sometimes when seniorsgive you some, you know like
nitty gritty task, or you knowlike nitty-gritty task or you
know like annoying jobs, thensome juniors don't like it and
then they respond like this.
I'm not here to do this, but myfirst reaction and my question

(01:08:39):
to them is this.
How can you take the plunge andhow can you do great things
without even knowing these smallthings?
You got to love the smallestthings.
Then you can love the greatestthings too.
So everything is so important.

(01:09:00):
So I really just want to saythis Everything should be loved
and everything is so precious.
So try not to make your ownevaluation or judgment against
the things that you dislike.
Try to look at it fromdifferent views.

(01:09:21):
There are some reasons whycertain things are existing in
the world, right.
So I think love is the greatestlesson in the things that I try
to harbor forever.

Daniel Koo (01:09:37):
I really, really like that.
It also reminds me of what wetalked about before about time
management.

Rawon (01:09:43):
Yeah.

Daniel Koo (01:09:44):
And something that I've learned is you told me that
you prioritize things based onwho you're helping, who you're
working with and who you lovemost at the time, and I think
that kind of relates here intomaking sure that people you love
the most are prioritized.

Rawon (01:10:02):
Yes.

Daniel Koo (01:10:03):
Right.
I think that's a very goodlesson for us to carry forwards,
even when choosing your nextcareer.
Maybe you can keep that in mind.
Typically, I ask the questionto whom would you recommend this
career?
To most of our guests, but foryou I think it's so tough
because this career there's justso many things that you've done

(01:10:24):
already.
Yeah, and then maybe we cankind of go into some of the
large categories, so maybepolitics, or publishing, or
participating in a startup.

Rawon (01:10:39):
So, maybe broadly those categories, if you have a
recommendation on, like, whattypes of people should delve
into these topics, oh, okay,that's a great question, but
first of all I want to mentionabout this I don't know whether
you're watching this programfrom Korea or the States or

(01:11:01):
somewhere else.
I'm a very, very analyticalperson, so when I think about
the future career trajectory, Ialways try to look at the
population size also, the trendsgoing on in one society.
So, for example, taking anexample of Korea, you know we

(01:11:22):
are already experiencing agedsociety not just aging, it's
super aged.
Then think about this what isgoing to be a huge trend in the
future?
It means that since there'sgoing to be lots of, lots of old
people, then there's going tobe a higher possibility for you

(01:11:46):
to work longer too.
Now think about this that.
What questions should you ask toyourself?
The first one is this Do Ireally like this?
I mean, during your early 20s,mid 20s and up to just 20s, I
think you should do jobs orworks that you're super good at.

(01:12:10):
If you're good at something,you have lots of confidence, and
that confidence actually givesyou another confidence to do
something new.
So, if you're good at somethingthat will actually sustain your
legacy for a certain amount oftime, but going beyond just good

(01:12:32):
at it, I think you should lovesomething.
I think you should lovesomething.
For example, I don't see thesekinds of things as my work, I
just love it.
It's not burdensome at all,right?
I mean, I think this applies toyou too.

Daniel Koo (01:12:54):
Daniel, right, yeah, very similar.
Being a podcast host is veryeasy to me.
It's not something that Istruggle to do.
After I do it, I'm not tired,I'm very energized.
So I understand what you'resaying.

Rawon (01:13:06):
Exactly so.
Finding what you really love isreally important.
But then people will come to meand ask another question how do
you find what you love?
Right, there's one answerExperience as many as possible.
It's a principle of probability, right.

(01:13:28):
The more you do it, the moreyou will taste it.
That's a beauty of buffet.
Live your life like a buffetuntil you find something you
love.
My mom always tells me not toeat sushi in the beginning when

(01:13:48):
we go to buffet, because it's sofilling right.

Daniel Koo (01:13:52):
I see the rice.

Rawon (01:13:53):
Yeah, the rice and all the carbs, right.
So whenever I go to buffet Itry to have you know like I pick
everything with a small amount,Like I want to try this, I want
to try this, and then, once youtried every dish that you
picked, then you realize, oh, Ilove this dish.
So today maybe I'm going tojust dig this one in right.

(01:14:17):
Same logic in life Try manythings, and if you don't like it
, then maybe you can move on.

Daniel Koo (01:14:25):
Maybe the reason sometimes we don't feel as
passionate is because we don'tknow and we just need to be
informed of where our hearts andminds kind of gravitate towards
.

Rawon (01:14:38):
And I want to add this too the people around you is so
important too, right?
So, for example, in my case,this is actually one of the most
popular questions I get fromany interview I have, when they
look at my resume it's so long.
Then they ask me this did youall apply?

(01:15:03):
And my response is just thesame For the first one I applied
by myself, but from the rest, Igot offers.
It's usually the seniors or thedirectors that I worked with,
and when they moved to differentplaces, they asked me whether I

(01:15:23):
would be interested in movingtoo.
So in my case, I was reallylucky and fortunate to have that
opportunity, but it could notbe the case for everyone, but
still, if that happens, youmight be missing badly those
people, right?
Oh, I miss them so much becausethey were the only ones who

(01:15:44):
really really cared about you,right?
I actually had that experienceone time my senior moved to a
different place and I was kindof depressed because really he
was the one to give me goodadvice and, you know, like,
guided almost everything, and hewas super, just genuinely kind.

(01:16:09):
So I thought maybe it's a timethat I should become that kind
of person, not just having arole model.
How about I just become thatrole model?
Yeah, then all of a sudden,people are attracted to you and
they, you know, like talk to you.

Daniel Koo (01:16:25):
That's so true.
I think that's something thatwe can take with us as we're
moving forward into our career.
Some things that I'm learningtoday.
Number one that I'm gettingfrom you is you have to broaden
your horizon, and I love how youtalk about things in such a

(01:16:47):
global scale.
You talk about Korea as apeninsula.
For me, it's just home, youknow, it's really simple for me,
but I think there is a lot ofbenefit to thinking about this
world as something that you canimpact and help.
I'm really getting that from you.
One other thing is that beingreally genuine in terms of
network, in terms of your career, in terms of what you're

(01:17:09):
interested in you know.
Don't fake it.
You know there's plenty ofthings that you will be
interested in and passionateabout.
And the last thing is love.
I think that thing is a veryimportant concept for us to
grasp, and just the way you talkabout things in a human-based
approach, it really does make adifference in how you carry out

(01:17:33):
your actions going forward.
I think that's something thatI'm learning and will carry
forwards in the future.

Rawon (01:17:39):
Absolutely.
That's why I described the wordcosmopolitan here.
That includes words like love,respect and also global.
That's why I think in thefuture, for those who are really
interested in participating foryour perfect path, I think they

(01:18:02):
will have better ideas aboutwhat they really want to do.

Daniel Koo (01:18:07):
As one of the very last questions what is in store
for your future?
So what is your next step andwhat can we be most excited for
to see in your future?
And what can we be most excitedfor to see?

Rawon (01:18:18):
in your future.
One thing interesting about mylife is that I get many calls
and offers these days.
I try not to get those callsbecause I love what I do right
now.
Especially, what I want to doat the moment is to really

(01:18:40):
really scale up the startup thatI'm doing with Junhyung the CEO
.
We want to make a school in theStates.
So right now we're working alot with Taiwan Foundation.
Actually, the head of theTaiwan Foundation is my friend.
Actually the head of the TaiwanFoundation is my friend and

(01:19:00):
it's got so good educationalvision and we were thinking that
how about we make this global?
And also, at the same time, Iwant to make a school that
really produces lots of globalleaders.
These days, I think people arebecoming more egoistic and
selfish.
They only think about them, butI think leaders, if there's one

(01:19:26):
good leader in one world, thenthe whole world changes, yeah.
So I'm really into producinglots of leaders.
And the second thing is I writebooks.
I mean, I really do think thatmy side identity, is a writer.
So these days I'm writing bookson international affairs.

(01:19:49):
Again, sorry, that's what Ilove, but I really want to
present how Korea can actuallycreate grand strategies.
So that's the second thing I'mworking on, and the third is in
the long future, I want to goback to the field of politics

(01:20:10):
and international politics too,because, like you said, I
noticed that you actually keepmentioning about the word impact
.
Like you said, I noticed thatyou actually keep mentioning
about the word impact.
At the end of the day, it'sactually politics and
international politics thatreally really make great changes
and impact at a global scale.
So, if the opportunity is given, I want to go back and maybe,

(01:20:34):
hopefully, with better wisdom Ihave, I give better and hopeful
messages to the audience at theglobal level.
So that's what I'm aiming for.

Daniel Koo (01:20:46):
We're all very excited to see what kind of
change you're going to bring up.
I think, with the experience,the wisdom and the attitude that
you bring, I have no doubt thatyou'll make amazing changes in
the world.

Rawon (01:21:01):
Oh, my God, that is such a great compliment.
But I also actually want tomake a good compliment about
Daniel, our host.
I told you yesterday about theBible in the chapter Daniel,
daniel, page 12 in verse 3.
Daniels are the ones whoactually bring people to the

(01:21:24):
righteousness, and because theydo that, they shine like a star
forever.
So one of the reasons why Ireally wanted to take part in
this conversation is because ofyou.
I really thought you could makegreat changes and great impact

(01:21:46):
to the people, and not just acareer.
Maybe in the future, hopefully,you become a great podcast host
and talk about many thingsgoing beyond the topics of
career, but maybe life ingeneral too.
So I'm really looking forwardto your future too.

Daniel Koo (01:22:06):
Thank you so much.
Those are very kind words.
You're always an inspiration totalk to, oh thank you, so we'll
make sure to have you back onthe podcast at some point.

Rawon (01:22:15):
Oh yeah, I gotta be popular.

Daniel Koo (01:22:18):
I think you're going to do so many things.
I know you're going to be back.
Thank you so much for spendingyour time with me today.
I really appreciate everythingthat we learned.

Rawon (01:22:27):
Oh, it's my pleasure and thank you so much for having me
again.
Thank you, thanks for watching.