October 22, 2024 • 26 mins
In episode twenty of the Napa Valley Insider Podcast, Andrew sits down with Rachel Martin, founder and CEO of Oceano Wines. Rachel is a trailblazer in the wine industry, pioneering non-alcoholic and reduced-alcohol wines that cater to health-conscious consumers while maintaining artisanal quality. With a background that spans from managing her family’s vineyard in Virginia to launching her own premium wine brand, Rachel’s insights offer a fresh perspective on the evolving trends in the alcohol space.
Episode Highlights:
- The Creation of Oceano Wines: Rachel shares the story of building Oceano Wines and her journey into the growing non-alcoholic wine market. Learn more about Oceano Wines on Instagram at @oceanowines.
- Non-Alcoholic Wine Innovation: Discover how Oceano is setting new standards in the non-alcoholic wine category with artisanal production methods and sustainable practices. Check out Oceano Zero, Rachel’s innovative line of wines, on Instagram at @oceano.zero.
- Navigating the Wine Industry: From petitioning to create an AVA in Virginia to establishing Oceano as an ultra-premium brand, Rachel delves into the challenges and triumphs of leading in a dynamic market. Follow Rachel’s personal journey on Instagram at @rachel_oceano.
This episode is brought to you by Cuvée, your go-to for exclusive Napa Valley experiences.
For behind-the-scenes content and updates, follow Cuvée on Instagram, and be sure to subscribe to the Napa Valley Insider Podcast for more conversations with the people shaping Napa Valley’s vibrant wine and hospitality scene!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is the Napa Valley Insider podcast brought to you by Cuvée, the Napa Winery Guide in
(00:07):
partnership with Highway 29 Media.
All right, all right, all right.
Welcome back to another episode of Napa Valley Insider.
I am Andrew Allison.
We run the Cuvée app, the Napa Winery Guide app.
We make this podcast in partnership with Highway 29 Media.
And I'm so excited to welcome a guest today that is working on a very interesting trend
(00:31):
in the alcohol space.
Who are you and what do you do?
I'm Rachel Martin and I am the founder and CEO of Oceano Wines.
I produce wine in varying degrees of alcohol from less than 0.5% to fully alcoholic wines
(00:52):
stopping somewhere along the way at 3.5%.
So we met in Chicago at the InvestBev Accelerator, which shout out to the InvestBev team.
I was really taken back with your story.
So can we rewind the clocks?
How did you get here in one of the leading positions of the non-alcoholic trend in the
(01:13):
wine industry?
What was the career?
Yeah.
I started as the executive vice president of my family's vineyard and winery in Middleburg,
Virginia.
I studied analogy and viticulture at Napa Valley College to get started.
(01:34):
And then I went to the University of Bordeaux School of Anology for a diploma in sensory
evaluation.
It's called the DUAD, D-U-A-D.
After that in 2005, moved to Middleburg, Virginia and started my post as executive vice president,
which meant I ran the vineyard.
(01:57):
So I was in charge of overseeing the vineyard and the winemaking and creating our tasting
room as well as all of our distribution, all of our licensing for shipping to multiple
(02:18):
states.
So, I mean, if you can think about it, I did it.
I designed our labels, did all of our label compliance, worked with the TTB.
I wrote a successful petition establishing Middleburg, Virginia as the state's seventh
AVA.
(02:39):
So I did all of that for about 16 years at my family's vineyard and winery, which is
called Boxwood.
And then I founded my own winery in 2016, Oceano.
I love the journey across many things and as a family run business, you must wear many
(03:01):
hats.
But in our first conversation, you shared that you worked and established an AVA.
I was like, tell me more.
That's so interesting.
For those that don't understand, I think the folks that listen to the podcast work in a
very well established hospitality region like Napa Valley.
What is it like to run a hospitality program on the East Coast?
(03:25):
I mean, Virginia doesn't have as many wineries as some of the other eastern states, but what's
it like to run a hospitality program for a winery that is not established like Napa is?
Well, first of all, we had to overcome the negative reputation of Virginia wines.
(03:46):
What's the reputation?
Just not as good?
Starting, we planted our vineyard in 2004.
So we started working on siding the vineyard in 2002.
And at that time, it's really barn wineries, roadside wineries.
Yeah, Napa in the 80s.
(04:08):
Fruit wines, not just Vitis vinifera, not the noble grapes.
So Virginia is a very difficult climate to grow grapes.
So you have to have a lot of experience.
That's why we hire consultants that have a lot of experience.
(04:31):
And then building the hospitality after establishing a brand, we opened up five tasting rooms that
we carried wines from all over the world.
The tasting rooms were called Boxwood Winery Estate Tasting Room.
And that was a marketing play.
(04:53):
So all around the DC metro area.
So that was a way that we introduced people.
That's how you found your consumer funnel.
That was our funnel.
At first, we were closed to the public and open by appointment only.
We just had so many people wanting to come to the winery that we ended up opening the
(05:13):
winery, closing all of the tasting rooms.
But there was already wine tourism, but not at the level of expectation of world class
wines, which is what we produce in Boxwood.
Yeah, so the brand equity of French wine, obviously worldwide is very high.
(05:34):
And then Napa Valley, as its own brand, has a reputation that precedes itself.
And so you had to fight against the Virginia isn't established or it's already perceived
as worse because it's not something that somebody's heard of.
It's very atypical to hear of a Virginia wine.
Yeah, which really set me up for any challenges along the way.
(05:59):
Our winemaking consultant at Boxwood from day one, and his name is Stefan Durenancourt,
and he's a very famous international winemaking consultant, and he's based in Bordeaux.
So we were invited to participate among all of his consulting wineries during On Primer.
(06:20):
So that is the futures tasting of your Bordeaux wine.
So I was able to get the word out and establish us internationally as an ultra premium winery.
That's so interesting.
I can't even imagine the trials and tribulations of going all the way through the label creation
to AVA establishment, to building the brand equity of the region.
(06:44):
I just hats off to the journey.
Let's jump into what you're working on now.
I think there's, for those that don't know, why is non-alcoholic seeing such a trend right
now and what is the trend that they're seeing?
The trend is a better for you trend, the healthy lifestyle trend.
(07:10):
Alcohol is, as we know, not a healthy product to consume and must be done in moderation
because it has dramatic negative health effects.
So the trend is people wanting to live healthier, longer lives, lives with accountability and
(07:34):
authenticity and they want to be present, like say millennials, for example, want to
be present while raising their children.
And then you have people in Gen X like me who have been drinking since they were teenagers
(07:55):
and at some point they realize that alcohol is not, they're maybe consuming too much alcohol
but they don't want to give up wine.
So the non-alcoholic wine option is for people who want to consume wine but not the alcohol.
I saw some recent data.
(08:19):
There's so much doom and gloom that wine is, and some of it I think is just click stuffing
or the ability for writers to just vomit out some sort of like online content to tell the
doomsday story of wine.
I believe that wine is here to stay across many categories but I do think there's a lot
of room for innovation around non-alcoholic for the younger folks or the folks that are
(08:42):
more health aware that would like to drink less alcohol.
So hats off, but how big is the non-alcoholic wine market today either in production size
or sales or where do you think that the ceiling is going to be on this market?
The higher quality non-alcoholic wines that we produce that will affect the growth of
(09:08):
the category.
I really believe that sustainability of the category is based in quality.
For example, for us, once we launched our Oceano Zero, our non-alcoholic wines, our
sales went up 500%.
(09:30):
With that, our sales of our alcoholic wines went up 200% because most people are moderating.
Is this you catching a post-COVID wave where people consumed a ton?
This is very well documented, people consumed a ton of wine during COVID.
Are you still writing that wave post-COVID of the consumer now wanting to drink healthier
(09:56):
wine?
We launched our non-alcoholic wines in 2023, October 2023.
So well after COVID.
I do think that the growth in non-alcoholic wines has a lot to do with people over consuming
alcohol during that time.
But I also think that the non-alcoholic trend is beneficial to the wine industry as a whole.
(10:26):
If people are going to continue moderating their consumption of alcohol, those grapes
have to go somewhere.
And we want to make sure we're supporting our farmers as well as our consumers.
And so I think it's a great solution producing non-alcoholic wines for the dip that we've
(10:48):
seen in wine consumption.
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you can apply to help build your business.
To get those insights, join the nation's premier direct to consumer sales and marketing
conference.
Now in its 18th year, the direct to consumer wine symposium will be held January 21 to
23, 2025 in Monterey, California.
(11:10):
This is the conference that will provide you with cutting edge ideas you can integrate
into your programs as soon as you return home.
The conference is presented by and as a fundraiser for the Free the Grapes campaign.
Register before November 1, 2024 and take advantage of early bird pricing with significant
discounts.
Visit DTCwinesymposium.com.
See you in Monterey.
(11:35):
Do you think the non-alcoholic space is going to see well established companies start to
produce a non-alcoholic wine?
Or do you think it's the other way around?
It's going to be new players wanting to bring their own brand and produce a non-alcoholic
wine.
Where do you foresee your competition is going to come in?
Of course, nobody knows, right?
(11:55):
I foresee my competition coming directly from established winemakers and wineries because
we're in the ultra premium category.
Is this like the Bud Light Zero's equivalent, right?
Something akin to that, like the well established?
There's already well established, like Sutter Home is well established and J. Lor is well
(12:20):
established, and they have non-alcoholic brands.
Since I'm at a higher price tier, a higher quality tier, my competition is going to be
coming from the higher end portfolios of these corporate companies.
And then the winemakers that work for, either have their own brands and are very successful
(12:44):
at it or work for high end wineries to produce their own non-alcoholic wines or low alcohol
wines and take a stab at that.
I think they're just waiting for people like us, people like me to feel out the category
to see if it's worthwhile getting into.
(13:05):
Totally.
And I think usually the folks that think they can jump in later are usually the ones that
miss the market, but it's definitely a very fast moving market right now.
Yeah, it is.
And that's why we've branched out into reduced alcohol wines as well, because what we found
(13:26):
is many of our customers and just in my network, wine people, they want to drink less, but
they don't want to go fully non-alcoholic.
And that's why I created a three and a half percent Syrah.
(13:47):
Just that little bit of alcohol really helps push those aromatics and create that structure
that is more difficult to achieve in non-alcoholic wines.
I really enjoyed the tasting that you put on in Chicago and it was fantastic to try
(14:07):
your products.
When you think about the opportunity, is the opportunity just to get a non-alcoholic wine
on every restaurant menu or is the opportunity something different where you focus more on
a D to C relationship?
How do you think about the opportunity?
Since COVID, people are spending more time at home and entertaining at home and I think
(14:31):
that is the opportunity.
So that is a direct consumer relationship.
It's also a retail wholesale relationship.
Our customers are direct consumer and also enterprise online e-commerce companies who
(14:53):
specifically sell non-alcoholic products because you're opening a whole new customer base because
they don't need to have alcohol licenses to sell them.
But really discovery mostly happens on premise and at restaurants.
(15:14):
I think they all feed one another and we are reaching out to all tiers of the industry,
all customers.
But the best way for us to interact with our customers of course is online.
(15:35):
I have so many questions and maybe it's just because I don't understand the production
of it.
But my understanding is the most common way to make non-alcoholic wine is to actually
make the wine and then remove the alcohol.
But for those that are uninitiated or don't know like myself, how do you make non-alcoholic
(15:55):
wine?
We make it by, you know, we source our fruit from single vineyards.
We've always been a single vineyard winery.
The 2023 vintage that we have on offer currently, all the wines are sourced from Spanish Springs
Vineyard which is an extreme coastal vineyard in San Luis Obispo in the slow coast AVA.
(16:22):
It's a mile and a half from the ocean.
So we handpick the fruit and we're picking based upon pH and TA.
We're not picking on sugar.
So most people think that, oh, we're just going to pick lower sugar to produce lower
(16:44):
alcohol wines.
We're looking for full flavor development.
So that's first and then understanding how de-alcoholization affects the wine that you're
producing.
We're looking at how our pH and TAs will, how they'll result once the alcohol is removed.
(17:07):
So we're picking based upon those parameters.
And then like our Chardonnay is fermented in French oak and we put it through 50% malolactic
and then age it in French oak barrels on the lees with weekly lees stirring to build body
independent of the contribution of alcohol.
(17:28):
So these are extreme handcrafted artisanal wines that we're making and then removing
the alcohol because as we all know, it all starts with your vineyard and then it's the
grapes that you grow and then the wine that you make and then your method.
(17:50):
And then here comes the new part, your method of de-alcoholization, what you add to the
wine after de-alcoholizing it and then the packaging that contains the wine.
These are all the steps along the journey of finally having that non-alcoholic wine
(18:10):
on the market.
So when we remove the alcohol, which is done by spinning cone column, it's a method of
vacuum distillation essentially.
We're adding a little sugar to it to balance the other components.
When I say small amount of sugar, it results in five calories per glass.
(18:34):
So it's a very small amount.
And then for our Chardonnay, we added a little bit of mannoproteins to continue building
some body to the wine.
And with our Pinot Noir, we added a little bit of oak tannin, which adds some texture
(18:56):
and some sugar.
We added as well, but all of our wines are very low and all our non-alcoholic wines are
extremely low in calorie and we're doing the least amount of manipulation possible to
produce the greatest quality outcome.
The reduced alcohol, Syrah, which is really fascinating, again, it's the same protocols
(19:24):
of artisanal winemaking, then we take a portion of the Syrah and de-alcoholize it, blend it
in with an unprocessed portion to come to three and a half percent alcohol.
So not all of the wine is manipulated.
So there's less that really has to be done to create a complete wine in the absence of
(19:51):
the alcohol.
But the Syrah is fascinating because it acts more like a traditional wine and it really
needs decanting and it's a full-bodied, very, very structured wine, even at three and a
half percent.
So what varietals are you making right now?
Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, and Syrah.
Okay.
(20:11):
Makes a ton of sense.
Yeah.
And in 2024, we're making a single vineyard Sonoma Coast wine.
Is it from the Russian River Valley or somewhere up in Mendo?
The vineyard is Gaps Crown.
No way.
(20:32):
Amazing.
Yes.
And we're making that into a non-alcoholic Pinot Noir.
That is the decision that I've made at this point.
Am I going to make it a reduced alcohol Pinot Noir?
I don't know.
That's something that I'll speak to my winemaker about.
(20:54):
Innovations are happening every moment.
So it all depends on how the alcohol removal process innovates within the next eight months
before we bottle.
That's super impressive.
You were able to get your hands on some Gaps Crown Chardonnay, some of our favorite wineries.
Pinot Noir, I'm sorry.
To correct myself if I said Chardonnay.
(21:16):
Oh, maybe I wasn't doing good listening.
But the Gaps Crown property is not far from Sonoma State.
And so definitely familiar.
I think as you think about the next few turns for your business, maybe you can...
What are you in Napa doing?
I'm so glad you were able to stop in and record with us.
(21:38):
But what are you in Napa doing now?
And what do you think the run up to the rest of the year is?
Because my understanding is you're more or less always sold out of your product and you're
just in a spot where you keep just a little bit for new customers that would like to buy
or try something.
How are you thinking about your sales cycle for the next six months while you're waiting
for more product to finish?
(21:59):
I'm in Napa now for an event tonight at Southside.
They have a great collection of non-alcoholic products.
And they were an early customer for us.
So I'm there just meeting people and pouring our wines for them.
As we come into the really big opportunity of the holidays and S-O-N-D, we are doubling
(22:32):
down on our direct consumer with offering holiday packages, finding ways to express
occasions to enjoy our wines.
And we're hoping to hold on to enough product to get through dry January or damp January
(22:55):
or however people want to spend their January.
We actually have a wine for them.
But we sell out within three months at our current production.
So in order to meet demand, we're currently raising.
This is a self-funded.
I'm a sole founder on this project.
(23:19):
So we're hoping to increase production so that we don't have to turn people away when
they see sold out on our website.
But it also is an opportunity to compile a waiting list.
We have about 400 people on our waiting list.
So for those folks that are curious to try, how can they find you?
(23:43):
Where are you besides Southside tonight, which we'll throw it on our socials for sure.
But what are some ways that a consumer who checks us out can learn about yourself?
Yeah, well, definitely on our website, which is OceanoWines.com on our socials at OceanoWines
and at Oceano.zero.
(24:05):
You can find our link tree.
It has all the events that we're doing.
I travel around the country speaking about no and low alcohol wines.
Next week, I'll be in Phoenix.
I'm a member of Les Domes Des Gauviers, Washington, DC and New York chapters.
And I'll be there at our annual conference talking about the category.
(24:29):
My session is called Beyond the Buzz.
I'll be at the direct to consumer symposium in January.
We'll see you there.
Yeah, talking about the no and low category.
Amazing.
We just had some folks from their team come through and they were on last month's episodes.
(24:50):
I think the category is such an interesting space to watch.
And you've navigated yourself to the top and some of the highest and most reputable brands
on the non-Alk side.
So hats off.
I really, really appreciate the founders journey.
Thank you.
I cannot imagine it is easy, but it's so nice to watch another founder find success through
(25:15):
this journey.
Hopefully our platform introduces you to some new consumers or maybe we'll get you on a
restaurant list that listens to our pods.
So hopefully, hopefully we could support in some way.
Well, thanks.
You're already supporting me now.
Thanks for having me on.
Well, thank you so much.
And thank you to all those.
There's another episode in Napa Valley Insider.
(25:35):
I'm Andrew Allison.
Our guest today is Rachel with Oceano wines and we hope we see you soon.
The Napa Valley Insider podcast has been brought to you by Kuvei, the Napa winery guide.
Download the app for iPhone today and start planning your perfect wine country adventure.
Find out more at kuveiapp.com.
Cheers.
This is the Napa Valley Insider podcast brought to you by Cuvée, the Napa Winery Guide in
(00:07):
partnership with Highway 29 Media.
All right, all right, all right.
Welcome back to another episode of Napa Valley Insider.
I am Andrew Allison.
We run the Cuvée app, the Napa Winery Guide app.
We make this podcast in partnership with Highway 29 Media.
And I'm so excited to welcome a guest today that is working on a very interesting trend
(00:31):
in the alcohol space.
Who are you and what do you do?
I'm Rachel Martin and I am the founder and CEO of Oceano Wines.
I produce wine in varying degrees of alcohol from less than 0.5% to fully alcoholic wines
(00:52):
stopping somewhere along the way at 3.5%.
So we met in Chicago at the InvestBev Accelerator, which shout out to the InvestBev team.
I was really taken back with your story.
So can we rewind the clocks?
How did you get here in one of the leading positions of the non-alcoholic trend in the
(01:13):
wine industry?
What was the career?
Yeah.
I started as the executive vice president of my family's vineyard and winery in Middleburg,
Virginia.
I studied analogy and viticulture at Napa Valley College to get started.
(01:34):
And then I went to the University of Bordeaux School of Anology for a diploma in sensory
evaluation.
It's called the DUAD, D-U-A-D.
After that in 2005, moved to Middleburg, Virginia and started my post as executive vice president,
which meant I ran the vineyard.
(01:57):
So I was in charge of overseeing the vineyard and the winemaking and creating our tasting
room as well as all of our distribution, all of our licensing for shipping to multiple
(02:18):
states.
So, I mean, if you can think about it, I did it.
I designed our labels, did all of our label compliance, worked with the TTB.
I wrote a successful petition establishing Middleburg, Virginia as the state's seventh
AVA.
(02:39):
So I did all of that for about 16 years at my family's vineyard and winery, which is
called Boxwood.
And then I founded my own winery in 2016, Oceano.
I love the journey across many things and as a family run business, you must wear many
(03:01):
hats.
But in our first conversation, you shared that you worked and established an AVA.
I was like, tell me more.
That's so interesting.
For those that don't understand, I think the folks that listen to the podcast work in a
very well established hospitality region like Napa Valley.
What is it like to run a hospitality program on the East Coast?
(03:25):
I mean, Virginia doesn't have as many wineries as some of the other eastern states, but what's
it like to run a hospitality program for a winery that is not established like Napa is?
Well, first of all, we had to overcome the negative reputation of Virginia wines.
(03:46):
What's the reputation?
Just not as good?
Starting, we planted our vineyard in 2004.
So we started working on siding the vineyard in 2002.
And at that time, it's really barn wineries, roadside wineries.
Yeah, Napa in the 80s.
(04:08):
Fruit wines, not just Vitis vinifera, not the noble grapes.
So Virginia is a very difficult climate to grow grapes.
So you have to have a lot of experience.
That's why we hire consultants that have a lot of experience.
(04:31):
And then building the hospitality after establishing a brand, we opened up five tasting rooms that
we carried wines from all over the world.
The tasting rooms were called Boxwood Winery Estate Tasting Room.
And that was a marketing play.
(04:53):
So all around the DC metro area.
So that was a way that we introduced people.
That's how you found your consumer funnel.
That was our funnel.
At first, we were closed to the public and open by appointment only.
We just had so many people wanting to come to the winery that we ended up opening the
(05:13):
winery, closing all of the tasting rooms.
But there was already wine tourism, but not at the level of expectation of world class
wines, which is what we produce in Boxwood.
Yeah, so the brand equity of French wine, obviously worldwide is very high.
(05:34):
And then Napa Valley, as its own brand, has a reputation that precedes itself.
And so you had to fight against the Virginia isn't established or it's already perceived
as worse because it's not something that somebody's heard of.
It's very atypical to hear of a Virginia wine.
Yeah, which really set me up for any challenges along the way.
(05:59):
Our winemaking consultant at Boxwood from day one, and his name is Stefan Durenancourt,
and he's a very famous international winemaking consultant, and he's based in Bordeaux.
So we were invited to participate among all of his consulting wineries during On Primer.
(06:20):
So that is the futures tasting of your Bordeaux wine.
So I was able to get the word out and establish us internationally as an ultra premium winery.
That's so interesting.
I can't even imagine the trials and tribulations of going all the way through the label creation
to AVA establishment, to building the brand equity of the region.
(06:44):
I just hats off to the journey.
Let's jump into what you're working on now.
I think there's, for those that don't know, why is non-alcoholic seeing such a trend right
now and what is the trend that they're seeing?
The trend is a better for you trend, the healthy lifestyle trend.
(07:10):
Alcohol is, as we know, not a healthy product to consume and must be done in moderation
because it has dramatic negative health effects.
So the trend is people wanting to live healthier, longer lives, lives with accountability and
(07:34):
authenticity and they want to be present, like say millennials, for example, want to
be present while raising their children.
And then you have people in Gen X like me who have been drinking since they were teenagers
(07:55):
and at some point they realize that alcohol is not, they're maybe consuming too much alcohol
but they don't want to give up wine.
So the non-alcoholic wine option is for people who want to consume wine but not the alcohol.
I saw some recent data.
(08:19):
There's so much doom and gloom that wine is, and some of it I think is just click stuffing
or the ability for writers to just vomit out some sort of like online content to tell the
doomsday story of wine.
I believe that wine is here to stay across many categories but I do think there's a lot
of room for innovation around non-alcoholic for the younger folks or the folks that are
(08:42):
more health aware that would like to drink less alcohol.
So hats off, but how big is the non-alcoholic wine market today either in production size
or sales or where do you think that the ceiling is going to be on this market?
The higher quality non-alcoholic wines that we produce that will affect the growth of
(09:08):
the category.
I really believe that sustainability of the category is based in quality.
For example, for us, once we launched our Oceano Zero, our non-alcoholic wines, our
sales went up 500%.
(09:30):
With that, our sales of our alcoholic wines went up 200% because most people are moderating.
Is this you catching a post-COVID wave where people consumed a ton?
This is very well documented, people consumed a ton of wine during COVID.
Are you still writing that wave post-COVID of the consumer now wanting to drink healthier
(09:56):
wine?
We launched our non-alcoholic wines in 2023, October 2023.
So well after COVID.
I do think that the growth in non-alcoholic wines has a lot to do with people over consuming
alcohol during that time.
But I also think that the non-alcoholic trend is beneficial to the wine industry as a whole.
(10:26):
If people are going to continue moderating their consumption of alcohol, those grapes
have to go somewhere.
And we want to make sure we're supporting our farmers as well as our consumers.
And so I think it's a great solution producing non-alcoholic wines for the dip that we've
(10:48):
seen in wine consumption.
If you work in the DTC area of the wine industry, you're looking for insights and strategies
you can apply to help build your business.
To get those insights, join the nation's premier direct to consumer sales and marketing
conference.
Now in its 18th year, the direct to consumer wine symposium will be held January 21 to
23, 2025 in Monterey, California.
(11:10):
This is the conference that will provide you with cutting edge ideas you can integrate
into your programs as soon as you return home.
The conference is presented by and as a fundraiser for the Free the Grapes campaign.
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(11:35):
Do you think the non-alcoholic space is going to see well established companies start to
produce a non-alcoholic wine?
Or do you think it's the other way around?
It's going to be new players wanting to bring their own brand and produce a non-alcoholic
wine.
Where do you foresee your competition is going to come in?
Of course, nobody knows, right?
(11:55):
I foresee my competition coming directly from established winemakers and wineries because
we're in the ultra premium category.
Is this like the Bud Light Zero's equivalent, right?
Something akin to that, like the well established?
There's already well established, like Sutter Home is well established and J. Lor is well
(12:20):
established, and they have non-alcoholic brands.
Since I'm at a higher price tier, a higher quality tier, my competition is going to be
coming from the higher end portfolios of these corporate companies.
And then the winemakers that work for, either have their own brands and are very successful
(12:44):
at it or work for high end wineries to produce their own non-alcoholic wines or low alcohol
wines and take a stab at that.
I think they're just waiting for people like us, people like me to feel out the category
to see if it's worthwhile getting into.
(13:05):
Totally.
And I think usually the folks that think they can jump in later are usually the ones that
miss the market, but it's definitely a very fast moving market right now.
Yeah, it is.
And that's why we've branched out into reduced alcohol wines as well, because what we found
(13:26):
is many of our customers and just in my network, wine people, they want to drink less, but
they don't want to go fully non-alcoholic.
And that's why I created a three and a half percent Syrah.
(13:47):
Just that little bit of alcohol really helps push those aromatics and create that structure
that is more difficult to achieve in non-alcoholic wines.
I really enjoyed the tasting that you put on in Chicago and it was fantastic to try
(14:07):
your products.
When you think about the opportunity, is the opportunity just to get a non-alcoholic wine
on every restaurant menu or is the opportunity something different where you focus more on
a D to C relationship?
How do you think about the opportunity?
Since COVID, people are spending more time at home and entertaining at home and I think
(14:31):
that is the opportunity.
So that is a direct consumer relationship.
It's also a retail wholesale relationship.
Our customers are direct consumer and also enterprise online e-commerce companies who
(14:53):
specifically sell non-alcoholic products because you're opening a whole new customer base because
they don't need to have alcohol licenses to sell them.
But really discovery mostly happens on premise and at restaurants.
(15:14):
I think they all feed one another and we are reaching out to all tiers of the industry,
all customers.
But the best way for us to interact with our customers of course is online.
(15:35):
I have so many questions and maybe it's just because I don't understand the production
of it.
But my understanding is the most common way to make non-alcoholic wine is to actually
make the wine and then remove the alcohol.
But for those that are uninitiated or don't know like myself, how do you make non-alcoholic
(15:55):
wine?
We make it by, you know, we source our fruit from single vineyards.
We've always been a single vineyard winery.
The 2023 vintage that we have on offer currently, all the wines are sourced from Spanish Springs
Vineyard which is an extreme coastal vineyard in San Luis Obispo in the slow coast AVA.
(16:22):
It's a mile and a half from the ocean.
So we handpick the fruit and we're picking based upon pH and TA.
We're not picking on sugar.
So most people think that, oh, we're just going to pick lower sugar to produce lower
(16:44):
alcohol wines.
We're looking for full flavor development.
So that's first and then understanding how de-alcoholization affects the wine that you're
producing.
We're looking at how our pH and TAs will, how they'll result once the alcohol is removed.
(17:07):
So we're picking based upon those parameters.
And then like our Chardonnay is fermented in French oak and we put it through 50% malolactic
and then age it in French oak barrels on the lees with weekly lees stirring to build body
independent of the contribution of alcohol.
(17:28):
So these are extreme handcrafted artisanal wines that we're making and then removing
the alcohol because as we all know, it all starts with your vineyard and then it's the
grapes that you grow and then the wine that you make and then your method.
(17:50):
And then here comes the new part, your method of de-alcoholization, what you add to the
wine after de-alcoholizing it and then the packaging that contains the wine.
These are all the steps along the journey of finally having that non-alcoholic wine
(18:10):
on the market.
So when we remove the alcohol, which is done by spinning cone column, it's a method of
vacuum distillation essentially.
We're adding a little sugar to it to balance the other components.
When I say small amount of sugar, it results in five calories per glass.
(18:34):
So it's a very small amount.
And then for our Chardonnay, we added a little bit of mannoproteins to continue building
some body to the wine.
And with our Pinot Noir, we added a little bit of oak tannin, which adds some texture
(18:56):
and some sugar.
We added as well, but all of our wines are very low and all our non-alcoholic wines are
extremely low in calorie and we're doing the least amount of manipulation possible to
produce the greatest quality outcome.
The reduced alcohol, Syrah, which is really fascinating, again, it's the same protocols
(19:24):
of artisanal winemaking, then we take a portion of the Syrah and de-alcoholize it, blend it
in with an unprocessed portion to come to three and a half percent alcohol.
So not all of the wine is manipulated.
So there's less that really has to be done to create a complete wine in the absence of
(19:51):
the alcohol.
But the Syrah is fascinating because it acts more like a traditional wine and it really
needs decanting and it's a full-bodied, very, very structured wine, even at three and a
half percent.
So what varietals are you making right now?
Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, and Syrah.
Okay.
(20:11):
Makes a ton of sense.
Yeah.
And in 2024, we're making a single vineyard Sonoma Coast wine.
Is it from the Russian River Valley or somewhere up in Mendo?
The vineyard is Gaps Crown.
No way.
(20:32):
Amazing.
Yes.
And we're making that into a non-alcoholic Pinot Noir.
That is the decision that I've made at this point.
Am I going to make it a reduced alcohol Pinot Noir?
I don't know.
That's something that I'll speak to my winemaker about.
(20:54):
Innovations are happening every moment.
So it all depends on how the alcohol removal process innovates within the next eight months
before we bottle.
That's super impressive.
You were able to get your hands on some Gaps Crown Chardonnay, some of our favorite wineries.
Pinot Noir, I'm sorry.
To correct myself if I said Chardonnay.
(21:16):
Oh, maybe I wasn't doing good listening.
But the Gaps Crown property is not far from Sonoma State.
And so definitely familiar.
I think as you think about the next few turns for your business, maybe you can...
What are you in Napa doing?
I'm so glad you were able to stop in and record with us.
(21:38):
But what are you in Napa doing now?
And what do you think the run up to the rest of the year is?
Because my understanding is you're more or less always sold out of your product and you're
just in a spot where you keep just a little bit for new customers that would like to buy
or try something.
How are you thinking about your sales cycle for the next six months while you're waiting
for more product to finish?
(21:59):
I'm in Napa now for an event tonight at Southside.
They have a great collection of non-alcoholic products.
And they were an early customer for us.
So I'm there just meeting people and pouring our wines for them.
As we come into the really big opportunity of the holidays and S-O-N-D, we are doubling
(22:32):
down on our direct consumer with offering holiday packages, finding ways to express
occasions to enjoy our wines.
And we're hoping to hold on to enough product to get through dry January or damp January
(22:55):
or however people want to spend their January.
We actually have a wine for them.
But we sell out within three months at our current production.
So in order to meet demand, we're currently raising.
This is a self-funded.
I'm a sole founder on this project.
(23:19):
So we're hoping to increase production so that we don't have to turn people away when
they see sold out on our website.
But it also is an opportunity to compile a waiting list.
We have about 400 people on our waiting list.
So for those folks that are curious to try, how can they find you?
(23:43):
Where are you besides Southside tonight, which we'll throw it on our socials for sure.
But what are some ways that a consumer who checks us out can learn about yourself?
Yeah, well, definitely on our website, which is OceanoWines.com on our socials at OceanoWines
and at Oceano.zero.
(24:05):
You can find our link tree.
It has all the events that we're doing.
I travel around the country speaking about no and low alcohol wines.
Next week, I'll be in Phoenix.
I'm a member of Les Domes Des Gauviers, Washington, DC and New York chapters.
And I'll be there at our annual conference talking about the category.
(24:29):
My session is called Beyond the Buzz.
I'll be at the direct to consumer symposium in January.
We'll see you there.
Yeah, talking about the no and low category.
Amazing.
We just had some folks from their team come through and they were on last month's episodes.
(24:50):
I think the category is such an interesting space to watch.
And you've navigated yourself to the top and some of the highest and most reputable brands
on the non-Alk side.
So hats off.
I really, really appreciate the founders journey.
Thank you.
I cannot imagine it is easy, but it's so nice to watch another founder find success through
(25:15):
this journey.
Hopefully our platform introduces you to some new consumers or maybe we'll get you on a
restaurant list that listens to our pods.
So hopefully, hopefully we could support in some way.
Well, thanks.
You're already supporting me now.
Thanks for having me on.
Well, thank you so much.
And thank you to all those.
There's another episode in Napa Valley Insider.
(25:35):
I'm Andrew Allison.
Our guest today is Rachel with Oceano wines and we hope we see you soon.
The Napa Valley Insider podcast has been brought to you by Kuvei, the Napa winery guide.
Download the app for iPhone today and start planning your perfect wine country adventure.
Find out more at kuveiapp.com.
Cheers.
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