November 2, 2025 • 31 mins
What if the single most powerful lever in education isn’t a new curriculum or app, but a teacher who truly knows the student? We sit down with Dr. Larry Jackson—former superintendent and now executive director of the PEE DEE Education Center—to explore how personal connection, consistent family “non-negotiables,” and community partnership lift kids higher than any quick fix. From interest inventories to real-life examples, he shows why engagement beats poverty, and why the best classrooms are built on trust, relevance, and care.
We take a hard look at school choice and the Education Scholarship Trust Fund, tracing how tax dollars gave way to lottery funds and what that means for equity, public schools, and the future of honest curriculum. Dr. Jackson doesn’t stop at critique; he challenges churches and community anchors to seize the same opportunities, launch excellent schools, and protect rigorous, truthful learning. If the rules change, our communities can adapt—and lead.
Technology and AI enter the spotlight as tools, not saviors. We talk about practical guardrails for academic integrity, the risk of outsourcing thinking, and smart ways to use digital resources to deepen, not dilute, student voice. Parents get a playbook too: homework expectations, summer learning, reading habits, and proactive communication that turns schools from silos into true partners. The takeaway is clear: when adults align—teachers, administrators, and families—students rise.
If this conversation sparked ideas or resolve, share it with a parent, teacher, or pastor who cares about kids. Subscribe for more candid talks on education, leave a review to help others find the show, and tell us: what’s your top non-negotiable at home or in your classroom?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
Hello everyone.
This is Josilia Williams sittingin for Dr.
Ralph Canty and welcome toNative Drums.
On this evening, we have ourspecial guest, and that is Dr.
Larry Jackson.
Dr.
Jackson has been our formersuperintendent of Florence
(00:26):
School District One Schools.
Welcome to Native Drums, Dr.
Jackson.
Thank you.
Glad to be here.
It's a pleasure to have you hereon today.
As an educator, you have umretired.
You've retired uh 15 years, yousaid?
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Yes.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
You say that proudly.
I know you do.
I know you do.
So what have you been doing, youknow, um within those 15 years
and presently?
Tell us currently what you're upto.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Well, um, first of all, I'm glad to be here.
Um I um had worked in publiceducation for 30 years.
I know I don't look it, but I'vebeen around a while.
I had been around a while.
And I just reached a point whereI felt like um, you know, I had
given all that I could and uhwanted to do something
different.
And so um I was coming off of uhhaving lost my first wife.
(01:21):
Had my daughter was very ill atthe time, and uh she ultimately
passed away, and so I had a lotof personal issues that I was
dealing with that I thought, youknow, I can't I can't give to
the school district what I hadbeen giving before.
So I needed to kind ofdecompress and and get away for
a while.
And so that was my my plan wasto just have some take some time
for self.
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Uh and so in the interim I um remarried and
started a new family, and thenum started to get the itch uh
again and uh had been doing somework for the uh I was the uh the
education chair for the stateNAACP.
Okay.
Uh and then was also workingwith the local NAACP in the on
the in the education side.
And so um that brought somereward and trying to deal with
(02:03):
some of the inequities that isthat currently exist in the
public school system.
And then uh uh maybe about ayear and a half or so ago, um an
opportunity came uh where therewas an opening at the PD
Education Center for theexecutive director's position.
So I thought, you know, thatmight be something that I would
be interested in because I hadbeen uh a board member there for
(02:24):
a period of time.
And so that opportunitypresented itself, and so um I
applied for the job and wasblessed to get it.
And so that's what I've beendoing for the last year and a
half is uh the executivedirector for the PD Education
Center.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
So you're back in the saddle again.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Back in the saddle again.
It's kind of like it's kind oflike riding the tiger.
You know, once you get off, uhyou're glad to get off, but then
the challenge becomes how am Igonna get back on?
Uh because he's got fangs andteeth, and so uh, but I rated we
didn't kind of like uh doingdouble dutch, you know, you kind
of wait till that time and thenyou jump on, and so uh that's
what I've done.
So I found that to be very, veryrewarding and kind of taking the
(02:57):
place for what I have been doingbefore.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
Well, great, great.
It's good to know that you'reback in the South.
Thank you.
We're glad to know that.
So uh as we were talkingearlier, so as an education
professional that has worked indifferent facets of education,
and um what are some of thethings that have remained to be
true in education over theyears?
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
Um I I would say the the most seminal thing uh that I
believe uh makes for aneffective educational system is
for the educators to uh know thestudent.
Oh yes.
Um uh there's an old saying thatI used to subscribe to that
said, a good teacher is astudent of the pupil's mind.
And by that I mean that in orderfor me to educate you or to get
(03:45):
you interested in what I'mtrying to teach you, is I need
to know what makes you tick.
I need to know about you, I needto know what your interests are.
You know, I I I came from theold old school of we would do
interest inventories.
You know, before uh if a kidwere in my class when I was a
school teacher, the first day, Iwould give them an interest
inventory.
And and on that inventory wouldbe things like, tell me what you
(04:06):
like, tell me what you like todo, how do you spend your free
time, what are you interestedin?
What do you like video games ordo you like sports or or do you
like needlepoint, whatever itis, and then I'm going to use
that information uh to teachyou.
Uh, I may incorporate somethingthat you like into the lesson
that I'm trying to teach.
So uh if you're going to beeffective, and this transcends
(04:28):
generations, it's it transcendstime, and that uh if I know what
makes you tick, then I can reachyou.
Uh, you know, if I'm just beingsterile and saying, okay, we're
gonna learn how to do longdivision, you know, you're gonna
go, I really am not into longdivision.
But if I relate long division tosomething that you're doing, if
you're a baseball player and Isay I can teach you how to make
(04:48):
your how do you determine whatyour average is in a baseball
game, you know, I might get yourattention.
And I think, you know, as aneducator, and particularly for
parents who are engaging withteachers and education
professionals, you need to havesome non-negotiables.
Um, I've got a sister who was aprincipal in Orenburg.
In fact, she was the first blackfemale principal at Orangeburg
Wilkinson High School.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
And uh there was a reunion.
She had been out of, she'd beenretired now almost 30 years.
Uh, but they had a reunion acouple of weeks ago.
And several of her formerstudents, now again, she's been
gone for 30 years, but severalof her students had her pick had
a t-shirt with her picture onit.
Wow.
And at the top of the uh pictureit had non-negotiables.
Because that was something thatwe learned from our from our
mother, and that was there'ssome things that are
(05:31):
non-negotiable.
And for parents who are watchingthis tonight, let me tell you
what some of the non-negotiablesare.
I am going to know who yourfriends are.
You know, I'm gonna know whoyou're hanging out with, I'm
gonna know who you're talking,I'm gonna know who you're
associating with.
You will do homework.
You know, that's your job.
When you're still living in myhouse as a child, that is your
number one job.
You're gonna do your homework.
Uh number three is you're goingto be in church.
(05:55):
We're going to go to church.
You're going to have somespiritual background for what it
is that you're doing.
Again, these are allnon-negotiables.
Uh, you know, I you're notyou're going to be respectful of
time.
Uh, you're when the sun goesdown, you're in the house.
You know, again,non-negotiables.
These things transcendgenerations.
And if if parents, you know, I Ialways would tell folks, uh,
(06:16):
education is like a three-leggedstool.
Uh, on one leg you've got theteachers, uh, on the other leg
you've got the administrators,and the third leg is made up of
the child and his parents.
And if you know, if you've evergone to a restaurant and you put
your food on the table and thetable is unbalanced, you know,
it's a horrible, it makes for ahorrible meal.
Definitely.
So if you've got a stool thathas three legs and one of the
(06:37):
legs is not carrying its weight,right, not gonna work.
So those things transcend time.
Uh and if you're gonna be a ifyou were an effective teacher
when I an effective student whenI was in school, those things
still apply, and they stillapply today.
SPEAKER_00 (06:53):
Yes, they do.
We need to make more t-shirts.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
Yeah, non-negotiables.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
Non-negotiables, negotiables.
Oh, wow, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
And you answered uh, well, yousomewhat you touched on the
second question I I have aboutteachers utilizing uh and foster
the set to foster the success ofchildren, and you talked about
it a while ago.
The teacher needs to know thechild.
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
Yes, that is that is critical.
Um because if if I know, if youif I if you think I know you, or
if I you know, here's anexample.
I was taking a graduate course,and um, you know, all of us have
taken graduate courses, and yougo in and they give you an index
card, and they say, Oh, put yourname, your address, your contact
information on this index card.
(07:40):
Well, the course that I wastaking, the instructor had us to
fill out the index card, we didthat.
And then the next class meeting,she said, Larry, um, how's your
daughter?
And I thought, how did she know?
Then I remembered that I had putthat on that index card.
But she personalized just thatone thing.
So from that point forward, Isat up in there and I was eager
(08:03):
to participate because, and shedid this the whole time.
And then she um she asked, shehad a map in the classroom and
she had us to get up andpinpoint on the map where we all
live.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
And she said, if I'm ever in the area, I'm gonna stop
by and see you.
And she did that.
So again, she was modeling forus how to be an effective
teacher is I need to show youthat I'm interested in you.
I you you have more value to methan just being a student.
I'm interested in yourwell-being.
And uh if we if we had teachers,more teachers doing that, then I
(08:35):
believe some of the ills andsome of the issues that kids are
facing, they would feel morecomfortable talking to you and
saying, because you've you'veyou've shown that you've got a
vested interest in me as astudent than I feel comfortable
sharing with you.
Or uh, you know, I I would alsotell my employees that, you
know, parents aren't keeping allthe good kids home and sending
us the bad ones.
They're sending all of them.
SPEAKER_00 (08:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
You know, we don't get to pick and choose who's
coming.
But we can make that burden alot easier if we invest, if we
pour time and energy into them,the end product is going to be
what I had a uh today we had ameeting with uh some
representatives from the StateDepartment going over test
scores.
And uh, and one of the keyfactors was poverty and kids of
poverty and how the uh but whatwe but what we've seen is that
(09:19):
schools that are engaging, ittheir success transcends
poverty.
Those those kids that have thoseschools where educators are
heavily involved in kids, theirtest scores are off the charts.
You know, we've got a local highschool in here in town.
I can't say which school becausethese scores are embargoed, it
won't be released until Monday.
But I can tell you that there'sone local high school that uh
(09:42):
would be deemed uh a school ofpoverty, but their test scores
are off the chart.
Are off the chart.
Wow.
And I'll give you a hint, theschool's colors kind of look
like the colors that I'm scoringhere tonight.
Okay.
But there's test scores cancompete with any other school in
the state.
Wow.
A school that celebrated ahomecoming recently.
(10:03):
Of course.
But I won't name the school, butbut it's that kind of engagement
on the part of teachers thatmakes all the difference.
SPEAKER_00 (10:10):
That's awesome.
That is awesome.
That's good stuff.
That's good stuff.
So um, for our viewers, pleasetake this in what Dr.
Jackson is saying uh when itcomes to your children and when
it comes to your the teachers ofyour children and um and the
non-negotiables.
Right.
Definitely, definitely, and I'mserious about that, teacher.
(10:32):
We need a list of these are yournon-negotiables.
Non-negotiables, definitely.
Now, let's um talk about thiseducational scholarship trust
fund that the legislators havethis law that has been passed.
So they're mixed with views andfeelings about this um trust
(10:52):
fund and about the vouchersystem.
So can you speak on the pros andcons uh of these distributions?
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
Sure.
Um I guess one of the pros couldpotentially be, you know, this
is no more than choice.
And uh, of course, I I I like tobe able to choose to make my own
choices.
And so uh, you know, forexample, if I go to the grocery
store and they've got severaldifferent kinds of milk there, I
(11:19):
want to be able to select themilk that I want.
I don't want someone telling meyou've got to purchase this kind
of milk.
So from that standpoint, uh uhschool trust vouchers are can be
construed as a good thing.
But now I'm gonna be heavy onthe not so good things because I
believe in public education.
(11:40):
Um I'm a proponent of publiceducation.
I went to the public schools, Iworked in the public schools, so
I'm always gonna be a proponent.
And so when the General Assemblyfirst uh rolled this out, uh
they were going to do it withtax dollars.
And so uh in the firstiteration, it came out using tax
dollars, and uh uh there was thelitigation against it.
(12:02):
And so the South CarolinaSupreme Court ruled that
vouchers could not be, could notuse tax dollars.
Uh, because some of these weregoing to parochial schools, and
so there would be a separationof church and state.
So this this the uh the uhSupreme South Carolina Supreme
Court said you can't use taxdollars to fund these vouchers.
(12:23):
So the General Assembly decided,well, how can we get around
that?
And so they said, well, wait aminute, we can use lottery
money.
You know, those are not taxdollars, so we can use lottery
money.
So that's what they've done.
And so um I I'm just concernedthat uh we will have a mass
exodus from public schools, anduh uh those who can will take
(12:49):
advantage of that.
And as we as this happens,schools are gonna be browner and
blacker uh uh than they've everbeen.
Uh however, I think there's apanacea for this, and I think
that if uh uh you know you and Iwere talking earlier about uh
the role that I believe uh theAfrican American church can play
in filling some of these gaps.
(13:09):
Uh we know that uh there's amovement across this nation uh
to change uh the face of publiceducation, and not only to
change the face face of publiceducation, but the curriculum
that what's being taught.
So we need to be concerned aboutwho's teaching it and what's
being taught.
And so uh the the concept, forexample, that's one of the
concepts that has been uh uh uhfostered in some of the
(13:31):
curriculum that the StateDepartment of Education has
looked at is slavery was notsuch a bad thing.
Well, you know, uh let's ask theslave that.
I think he or she would say, Ibeg to differ.
And so um, just like there arelots of folks who are taking
advantage of these uh vouchersand and money, why not have our
churches say, well, you knowwhat, we can do that too.
(13:54):
So, you know, why can't SavannahGrove Baptist Church start a
school?
You know, why can't SavannahGrove Baptist Church take
advantage of these resources?
Because other folk are doingthat.
You know, so this door that hasbeen opened, you know, there's
an adage of, you know, I can Ican beat you at your own game.
So what you're doing, you knowwhat, I can do that too.
(14:16):
Yes.
So um there's some good in it,but I think that we need to, uh
as African Americans, we need totake advantage of these
opportunities.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (14:27):
Uh we've got a we've got a society right now that I
believe is uh trying to rewriteour history and and whitewash
our history.
And so um, in order to combatthat, uh we should get these
resources.
We should teach our children,uh, we should uh uh take the
place, stand in the gap forthose things that are not being
(14:48):
taught for our children.
And we can do that with orwithout resources, but you and I
both know it would work a lotbetter if you had resources
because then you could hirestaff, you can do all these
things that these other folk aredoing.
So I challenge us, I challengeevery every African-American
church that's watching thispodcast that invest in your
children.
Look at your look at what youcan do to combat this attack on
(15:10):
public education.
SPEAKER_00 (15:12):
Yes, that's great.
And like you said, there arechurches out there that are
doing it.
Right.
Um in Columbia, um, my daughteris involved in a church.
It's called Soarin EaglesChristian Academy.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
Uh-huh.
And um they have the childrenthere, they're just awesome.
Um, and they are hands-on, andit's an it's a wonderful thing.
So you are correct.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (15:36):
Let's let's, you know, there's an old carpe diem.
Let's seize the day.
Yes.
Let's, you know, let's when youwhen you give me lemons, I'm
gonna make some lemonade out ofit.
So let's take advantage of thisopportunity that other folk are
also taking advantage of.
So the onus is on us to do whatwe can while we can.
SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Yes, yes, great, great.
So, now let's look at this.
How does the state of educationnow compare to how it was when
you first began your journey asan educator?
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Wow, it it's an excellent question.
It it has it has changeddramatically because uh I can
remember, you know, as a schoolteacher having to do lesson
plans and trying to pullresources from here or there.
And I tell people this story.
Um, my mother, I was blessed tohave a, you know, I loved my
mother because she was such animp a role model for me.
(16:27):
She only went to the sixthgrade, but she wanted me, and
this is a common denominatorthat I share with people all the
time, is that I don't care whatchild that you've got in front
of you, if you were trying torelate to the parent, there's
one seminal question that youcan ask is, and that is this
ma'am or sir, would you wantyour child to have a better life
than you've had?
I don't care what else is outthere, but if you ask that
(16:49):
seminal question, nine times outof ten, or 99.9% of the time,
the parent is gonna say yes.
So then, okay, well then look,what can we do together to make
that a reality?
But anyway, my mother, um, uh,again, to date myself, she
bought a set of World Bookencyclopedias.
I think everybody had those samethings.
And so she said to me, everynight before we go to bed,
(17:12):
you're gonna read from thisencyclopedia to me.
And so I went from the letter Aall the way to the letter Z.
Wow.
Um, but to answer your question,so we were using your I mean uh
uh encyclopedias, and well, nowyou know you've got a device,
you know, that within secondsyou can pull up information.
And so um the use of technologyis just amazing and the
(17:37):
resources that are availableright now.
And one of the things that we doat the uh at the at the uh PD
Education Center is that weprovide training uh for staff on
how to utilize this technology.
And so um we had a lady come inuh a couple last month and she
was showing how to create alesson plan, uh, you know,
pulling from all of thesedifferent resources and having
(17:59):
video, you know, on demand, uh,you know, so you're not having
to pull it from a book.
I mean, it's right, you've got ascreen up and you're pulling
information and you in realtime, you know, if you want if
you're talking about theGettysburg address, for example.
Right.
You could pull up and have avideo of someone actually
reading the Gettysburg in realtime.
Right.
And so the use of technology hasjust changed the landscape
(18:20):
dramatically.
However, I will I would cautionthe audience about this, is that
this, what you've got and whatI've got is just a tool, is a
tool.
Yes.
It's not the end all or be all,it is just another resource, no
different than your car or theblender that you use to make a
cake.
It is a tool.
That's it.
And do not, do not, if you don'thear, if you don't listen to
(18:41):
anything else I say tonight, donot let this raise your
children.
Oh yeah.
Do not let this raise yourchildren.
It is a tool.
Nothing more, nothing less, andit is a resource.
Um, when I was a kid, I used tobe the first, I was the first
person at school every day.
You know, I lived right behindNorth Vista Elementary School.
Okay.
I was the first person thereevery day.
And uh the librarian was niceenough because she got there
(19:03):
early.
She would let me come into thelibrary and I would read.
And so when I becamesuperintendent, I um went back,
I was visiting North Vista oneday, and I said, Um, I'm gonna
go see if I can find a book thatI checked out when I was a
child.
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (19:19):
So I went to the card catalog.
Again, this is before they hadevolved the technology, which is
the card catalog, and found thename of the book and went to the
shelf and I found the book.
Oh found the book, I opened thebook, and you know, the card
that would be in the back of thechat, found the card in the back
of the book, and guess what?
SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
Your name my name was still on it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
And at one point I was happy, but then I thought no
one else has checked this bookout.
And that bothered me because Ithought, you know, as a child,
I'm I'm a I'm an old man at thispoint, and I thought nobody else
has checked this book out.
And so it bothered me because Ithought, you know, my going to
the library then, you know, wewere poor, didn't have a lot,
(20:01):
but I could go to the libraryand I could go to Italy or I
could go to Europe or I could goanywhere through reading or
through the resources.
So parents have again, as aparent, you need to know what
your child is doing.
You need to know what they'rereading, what what technology
they're using.
That's right.
Because it could be a good thingor it could be a bad thing.
(20:21):
And there are people on thatthat are wanting to raise your
children if you let them.
Yes.
You know, who want to getinvolved with your children if
you if you let them.
So to ask your question,technology, it's like night and
day.
SPEAKER_00 (20:34):
And that's um, that leads to my next question about
the pros and cons to the heavyuse of technology and
instruction today.
And then and also AI, I want youto talk a little bit about that.
Because, you know, sometimeswhen I'm using AI, I feel like
I'm cheating.
SPEAKER_01 (20:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, well.
You know, I I I you know, partof what I do every day at work
is I I get to work early and Iread all these educational
journals, and then I send thisinformation out to our
superintendents.
And so um the article that Isent out yesterday was about AI
and its pros and cons.
Right.
And that um we have to be verycareful.
(21:15):
You know, you've got kids whowho have allowed AI to write
their term papers.
Right.
That's the right thing.
And so you have to be verycareful uh to not let that take
the place of going to thelibrary and doing research on
your own and not lettingtechnology do all of the work
for you.
And so that that is a tremendousconcern.
(21:35):
Uh, that um uh here's anotherexample.
I was talking to superintendentstoday, and I was trying to
relate uh a story to them, and Isaid, um uh I'm an avid reader,
big time reader my whole life.
And so I was saying to them, andthis is Halloween coming up,
that um uh Washington Irving uhwrote The Legend of Sleepy
Hollow, and that the titlecharacter in that story is a man
(21:58):
named Ichabod Crane, uh who wasa school teacher.
Uh, but that I said to them, Didyou did you know that the name
Ichabod appears in the Bible?
And they were like, What are youtalking about?
See, it appears in the Bible in1 Samuel 421.
There's a story about someonenamed Ichabod.
And Ichabod was uh the man wasnamed Ichabod because uh the
(22:20):
Philistines had stolen the Arkof the Covenant.
And so uh Eli's daughter was sodistraught over that having
happened, she named her sonIchabod.
And the name Ichabod meanswithout worth or without value.
And so I was saying that allchildren have value, and that uh
as a teacher, as an educator, weneed to see the value in these
(22:40):
children, and that um I wouldnot have known that had I not
researched it, had I notutilized some technology, right?
Figured I could have gotten theBible and thumbed through it and
tried to find it, but I couldput in a search about Ichabod
and I found out that Ichabod'sname appears in the Bible.
So um, you know, usingtechnology can be a good thing,
(23:02):
right?
But we have to monitor, youknow, and educators are gonna
have to monitor to make surethat you that the child is the
author of whatever it is they'returning in.
SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
That's right, because it uh some I feel that
somewhat it may dumb us down.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
You know, not we aren't utilizing our gifts or
our brains.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
Exactly.
And so um I here's a here'sanother story that I tell folk
all the time.
You know, uh again, L.
Frank Baum wrote The Wizard ofOz.
And there are five characters inthat story.
I think it's five.
It's uh Dorothy, uh thescarecrow, the lion, and the tin
man in Toto.
Right.
And so um, you know, in thestory they go off on a mission
and they get the broom and theybring it back, and so then they
(23:44):
discover that the wizard is justa man behind the curtain.
But what he does is he comes outand he says uh to Dorothy, he
says to the scarecrow, you knowwhat, you wanted a brain, so uh
I'm gonna give you a diploma,and all of a sudden the
scarecrow becomes smart.
And then he says to the lion,you know, you wanted courage, so
I'm gonna pin a metal on you,and all of a sudden you're gonna
be courageous.
Then he says to the tin man,Well, you wanted a heart, so he
(24:05):
pins a metal on him that was theshape of a heart, and all of a
sudden he becomes compassionate.
And then he tells to Dorothy,you know, you wanted to go home,
but you had the ability to gohome all the time.
But the question is, did he givethem something that they didn't
already have?
No, they had it already, butthey needed somebody to bring it
out.
The problem that problems.
Yeah, so that's what teachers,that's what educators are
(24:26):
supposed to do.
There's something of value inevery child.
There's no child who child who'san ichabod, but there's some
value in each child, and then itbehooves the educator to get it
out.
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
My last question is for parents.
What can parents do tosupplement their child's
learning?
SPEAKER_01 (24:48):
Well, I go back to those non-negotiables.
There you go.
I need to know, you know, Imean, do you have homework
tonight?
No, yes, you do.
But I don't, yes, you do.
Well, but we've already no, youdo.
And so if you've done italready, then I want you to read
ahead.
I want you to look ahead.
Look, you know, there'ssomething that I heard Dr.
(25:08):
Candy talking about recentlycalled vision casting.
And vision casting just meanslooking beyond where you are
right now.
Right.
Looking ahead.
And so, parents, you know, haveyour child look ahead.
You know, um, our granddaughterum was back during COVID.
Uh, she was in uh she was withus and she was studying here in
(25:31):
Florida, she was enrolled at aat a Florence school.
And then her mother gottransferred to England.
And so they moved to England,but we decided that because she
was already enrolled here andthey were virtual, that she
could just continue virtuallyfrom England.
Okay.
So um, but we said, don't tellanybody, don't tell your
teachers, because they won'tknow where you are.
(25:51):
All they'll know is you'll logon, just like everybody else in
Florence is logging on, andyou'll just participate in the
lesson, but don't say anything.
SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
So they happened to be studying, and they were in
England.
So they happened to be studyingsomething about Westminster
Abbey and Buckingham Palace.
And so she couldn't hold itanymore.
She said, I pass by that everyday.
Oh.
I passed by that every day.
(26:20):
So, of course, we had to explainto the folks here in Florence.
She's not in Florence anymore,but by that time the year was
about over.
Okay.
And so it worked out.
But again, getting engaged withyour children, giving them some
experiences, uh, don't just relyon the school.
As I said, it's a it's a it's ait's a uh a three-legged stool.
(26:42):
And so, you know, learning nevershould never end.
When the summer comes, don'tsay, okay, wow, it's over.
No, you keep them engaged.
Because we have found in all theresearch says that downtime, uh,
particularly in the summer whenyou've got these large gaps, uh,
that they children tend toregress.
And so you want to keep them,keep that pump prime, like you
said.
(27:02):
Keep them learning.
Uh uh, either you're green andgrowing or you're ripe and
rotten.
And so um uh, you know, we we wewant to do either you're green
and growing or you're ripe androtten.
And so we want children to begreen and growing.
And so um, as I said, you know,you keep keep pouring in the
children, it's like aninvestment.
You know, if you invest in yourchild, you know, I I applaud
(27:24):
parents who are actively engagedin their children's lives.
Yes, yes, you know, and it's soeasy to use a device to take
your place, but please don't dothat.
Uh stay engaged, stay involved.
You know, I would and I wouldsay I'm not gonna let schools
off easy now because you know, II tell folk all the time when
schools say we want parents tobe involved.
Is that what you really want?
Because if you really wantparents to be involved, then
(27:44):
you're gonna invite them, you'regonna have them come in, and
you're not gonna put up thesethese barriers, you know, to not
make parents feel welcome inyour classroom.
If you want that collegialityand if you want to work together
with parents, then you extendit, you extend that olive branch
and say, you're welcome to comeinto my classroom anytime.
You're welcome to call me at anytime if you've got a problem.
So don't be a don't let thatfirst meeting be a negative
(28:06):
meeting.
Right.
Let it be a positive and thenbuild off of that positive.
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
And then answer the emails when they're yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
You know, there's there's nothing worse than
telling people to reach out tocontact you, and then you don't
respond.
You don't respond.
I mean, I uh that's a pet peeveof mine.
When I was working here, we hadwe were the first school to have
a website.
SPEAKER_00 (28:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
In Florence one, when I was principal at
Williams.
We were the first school to havea website.
We were one of the first schoolsto um to have what we call, it
was a phone line called SIN,Student Information Network,
where parents could call in orkids could call in to say, hey,
listen, you might want to knowthis, you know, there's a fight
that's gonna happen or whatever.
So we were one of the first todo that.
You know, I started the IBprogram here in Florence when I
(28:45):
was working, so you know, I gota lot of skins on the wall.
But I I I none of these thingswould have happened if I hadn't
been smart enough to know Idon't know everything, but I can
I can get information from otherpeople.
And schools have become silos,and that's the worst thing that
could happen.
You don't want to be a silo, youwant to be open, you want to
invite people in, and you youmay learn something from them
(29:06):
while they're coming to learnsomething from you.
And so, but but mostimportantly, know your students,
know their parents.
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
Uh that's the key to success.
Amen.
Amen.
I I like that.
Know your students.
That's uh um I'm raisingchildren for the second time,
and I'm almost at the end of it.
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
Aren't we all?
SPEAKER_00 (29:27):
Yes, because TJ is now 18, he's a senior at West
Florence.
But um I found that um I likethe email, okay, and um when
Octavius was going to the Royal,I um talked to the teacher and
said, let's be a team.
You're a team of teachers, teamup with the family so that we
(29:48):
can make the child a successstory.
Right.
And that's when they reallybegin to engage with him.
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
Yeah, if if if you as a parent let the teacher know
that you're engaged, and you'regonna get back what you put.
In.
And so if they know that you'reengaging and that you want to
know about your child's success,and don't call me when the
problem happens, let me know theminute you see something, get
ready to happen.
You tend to be more successful,and it becomes a pleasant
experience.
It should never be, oh Lord,here they come.
(30:14):
No, it's no, I oh yes, here theycome.
And I'm welcome, and I'mwelcoming them and I want them
to be involved.
So it's a partnership, and itwill never be successful unless
everybody's doing their part.
Amen.
SPEAKER_00 (30:25):
Amen.
Well, Dr.
Jackson, you have been soenlightening.
Thank you.
Thank you ever so much forjoining us here.
Appreciate it.
And Native Drums and the DoorsSwing Open for you to come back
again.
SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
Well, I want to before I finish, let me say this
too.
As a child, I used to come outhere to church.
I was friends with the cruises.
That's right.
Patty Cruise, and it was kind oflike a second mom to me.
And so I can remember cominghere as a child, I think, with
Reverend Lund.
Now, yeah.
Yeah, that's that's how farback.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, that's how far back Iremember coming and listening to
him.
And I thought he was a I mean hewas just a riveting pastor, but
(30:56):
I remember that as a childcoming here.
So I do have some Savannah GroveRoots.
SPEAKER_00 (31:00):
Yeah, you have some roots here.
All right.
Welcome home.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
All right.
Well, everyone, thank you everso much for joining us here at
Native Drums.
And uh, we'll be back on nextweek, so make sure you tune in.
This is Jocelia Williams sittingin for Dr.
Ralph W.
Canty Sr., pastor of SavannahGrove Baptist Church.
(31:21):
Have a great evening.
Hello everyone.
This is Josilia Williams sittingin for Dr.
Ralph Canty and welcome toNative Drums.
On this evening, we have ourspecial guest, and that is Dr.
Larry Jackson.
Dr.
Jackson has been our formersuperintendent of Florence
(00:26):
School District One Schools.
Welcome to Native Drums, Dr.
Jackson.
Thank you.
Glad to be here.
It's a pleasure to have you hereon today.
As an educator, you have umretired.
You've retired uh 15 years, yousaid?
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Yes.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
You say that proudly.
I know you do.
I know you do.
So what have you been doing, youknow, um within those 15 years
and presently?
Tell us currently what you're upto.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Well, um, first of all, I'm glad to be here.
Um I um had worked in publiceducation for 30 years.
I know I don't look it, but I'vebeen around a while.
I had been around a while.
And I just reached a point whereI felt like um, you know, I had
given all that I could and uhwanted to do something
different.
And so um I was coming off of uhhaving lost my first wife.
(01:21):
Had my daughter was very ill atthe time, and uh she ultimately
passed away, and so I had a lotof personal issues that I was
dealing with that I thought, youknow, I can't I can't give to
the school district what I hadbeen giving before.
So I needed to kind ofdecompress and and get away for
a while.
And so that was my my plan wasto just have some take some time
for self.
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Uh and so in the interim I um remarried and
started a new family, and thenum started to get the itch uh
again and uh had been doing somework for the uh I was the uh the
education chair for the stateNAACP.
Okay.
Uh and then was also workingwith the local NAACP in the on
the in the education side.
And so um that brought somereward and trying to deal with
(02:03):
some of the inequities that isthat currently exist in the
public school system.
And then uh uh maybe about ayear and a half or so ago, um an
opportunity came uh where therewas an opening at the PD
Education Center for theexecutive director's position.
So I thought, you know, thatmight be something that I would
be interested in because I hadbeen uh a board member there for
(02:24):
a period of time.
And so that opportunitypresented itself, and so um I
applied for the job and wasblessed to get it.
And so that's what I've beendoing for the last year and a
half is uh the executivedirector for the PD Education
Center.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
So you're back in the saddle again.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Back in the saddle again.
It's kind of like it's kind oflike riding the tiger.
You know, once you get off, uhyou're glad to get off, but then
the challenge becomes how am Igonna get back on?
Uh because he's got fangs andteeth, and so uh, but I rated we
didn't kind of like uh doingdouble dutch, you know, you kind
of wait till that time and thenyou jump on, and so uh that's
what I've done.
So I found that to be very, veryrewarding and kind of taking the
(02:57):
place for what I have been doingbefore.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
Well, great, great.
It's good to know that you'reback in the South.
Thank you.
We're glad to know that.
So uh as we were talkingearlier, so as an education
professional that has worked indifferent facets of education,
and um what are some of thethings that have remained to be
true in education over theyears?
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
Um I I would say the the most seminal thing uh that I
believe uh makes for aneffective educational system is
for the educators to uh know thestudent.
Oh yes.
Um uh there's an old saying thatI used to subscribe to that
said, a good teacher is astudent of the pupil's mind.
And by that I mean that in orderfor me to educate you or to get
(03:45):
you interested in what I'mtrying to teach you, is I need
to know what makes you tick.
I need to know about you, I needto know what your interests are.
You know, I I I came from theold old school of we would do
interest inventories.
You know, before uh if a kidwere in my class when I was a
school teacher, the first day, Iwould give them an interest
inventory.
And and on that inventory wouldbe things like, tell me what you
(04:06):
like, tell me what you like todo, how do you spend your free
time, what are you interestedin?
What do you like video games ordo you like sports or or do you
like needlepoint, whatever itis, and then I'm going to use
that information uh to teachyou.
Uh, I may incorporate somethingthat you like into the lesson
that I'm trying to teach.
So uh if you're going to beeffective, and this transcends
(04:28):
generations, it's it transcendstime, and that uh if I know what
makes you tick, then I can reachyou.
Uh, you know, if I'm just beingsterile and saying, okay, we're
gonna learn how to do longdivision, you know, you're gonna
go, I really am not into longdivision.
But if I relate long division tosomething that you're doing, if
you're a baseball player and Isay I can teach you how to make
(04:48):
your how do you determine whatyour average is in a baseball
game, you know, I might get yourattention.
And I think, you know, as aneducator, and particularly for
parents who are engaging withteachers and education
professionals, you need to havesome non-negotiables.
Um, I've got a sister who was aprincipal in Orenburg.
In fact, she was the first blackfemale principal at Orangeburg
Wilkinson High School.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
And uh there was a reunion.
She had been out of, she'd beenretired now almost 30 years.
Uh, but they had a reunion acouple of weeks ago.
And several of her formerstudents, now again, she's been
gone for 30 years, but severalof her students had her pick had
a t-shirt with her picture onit.
Wow.
And at the top of the uh pictureit had non-negotiables.
Because that was something thatwe learned from our from our
mother, and that was there'ssome things that are
(05:31):
non-negotiable.
And for parents who are watchingthis tonight, let me tell you
what some of the non-negotiablesare.
I am going to know who yourfriends are.
You know, I'm gonna know whoyou're hanging out with, I'm
gonna know who you're talking,I'm gonna know who you're
associating with.
You will do homework.
You know, that's your job.
When you're still living in myhouse as a child, that is your
number one job.
You're gonna do your homework.
Uh number three is you're goingto be in church.
(05:55):
We're going to go to church.
You're going to have somespiritual background for what it
is that you're doing.
Again, these are allnon-negotiables.
Uh, you know, I you're notyou're going to be respectful of
time.
Uh, you're when the sun goesdown, you're in the house.
You know, again,non-negotiables.
These things transcendgenerations.
And if if parents, you know, I Ialways would tell folks, uh,
(06:16):
education is like a three-leggedstool.
Uh, on one leg you've got theteachers, uh, on the other leg
you've got the administrators,and the third leg is made up of
the child and his parents.
And if you know, if you've evergone to a restaurant and you put
your food on the table and thetable is unbalanced, you know,
it's a horrible, it makes for ahorrible meal.
Definitely.
So if you've got a stool thathas three legs and one of the
(06:37):
legs is not carrying its weight,right, not gonna work.
So those things transcend time.
Uh and if you're gonna be a ifyou were an effective teacher
when I an effective student whenI was in school, those things
still apply, and they stillapply today.
SPEAKER_00 (06:53):
Yes, they do.
We need to make more t-shirts.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
Yeah, non-negotiables.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
Non-negotiables, negotiables.
Oh, wow, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
And you answered uh, well, yousomewhat you touched on the
second question I I have aboutteachers utilizing uh and foster
the set to foster the success ofchildren, and you talked about
it a while ago.
The teacher needs to know thechild.
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
Yes, that is that is critical.
Um because if if I know, if youif I if you think I know you, or
if I you know, here's anexample.
I was taking a graduate course,and um, you know, all of us have
taken graduate courses, and yougo in and they give you an index
card, and they say, Oh, put yourname, your address, your contact
information on this index card.
(07:40):
Well, the course that I wastaking, the instructor had us to
fill out the index card, we didthat.
And then the next class meeting,she said, Larry, um, how's your
daughter?
And I thought, how did she know?
Then I remembered that I had putthat on that index card.
But she personalized just thatone thing.
So from that point forward, Isat up in there and I was eager
(08:03):
to participate because, and shedid this the whole time.
And then she um she asked, shehad a map in the classroom and
she had us to get up andpinpoint on the map where we all
live.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
And she said, if I'm ever in the area, I'm gonna stop
by and see you.
And she did that.
So again, she was modeling forus how to be an effective
teacher is I need to show youthat I'm interested in you.
I you you have more value to methan just being a student.
I'm interested in yourwell-being.
And uh if we if we had teachers,more teachers doing that, then I
(08:35):
believe some of the ills andsome of the issues that kids are
facing, they would feel morecomfortable talking to you and
saying, because you've you'veyou've shown that you've got a
vested interest in me as astudent than I feel comfortable
sharing with you.
Or uh, you know, I I would alsotell my employees that, you
know, parents aren't keeping allthe good kids home and sending
us the bad ones.
They're sending all of them.
SPEAKER_00 (08:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
You know, we don't get to pick and choose who's
coming.
But we can make that burden alot easier if we invest, if we
pour time and energy into them,the end product is going to be
what I had a uh today we had ameeting with uh some
representatives from the StateDepartment going over test
scores.
And uh, and one of the keyfactors was poverty and kids of
poverty and how the uh but whatwe but what we've seen is that
(09:19):
schools that are engaging, ittheir success transcends
poverty.
Those those kids that have thoseschools where educators are
heavily involved in kids, theirtest scores are off the charts.
You know, we've got a local highschool in here in town.
I can't say which school becausethese scores are embargoed, it
won't be released until Monday.
But I can tell you that there'sone local high school that uh
(09:42):
would be deemed uh a school ofpoverty, but their test scores
are off the chart.
Are off the chart.
Wow.
And I'll give you a hint, theschool's colors kind of look
like the colors that I'm scoringhere tonight.
Okay.
But there's test scores cancompete with any other school in
the state.
Wow.
A school that celebrated ahomecoming recently.
(10:03):
Of course.
But I won't name the school, butbut it's that kind of engagement
on the part of teachers thatmakes all the difference.
SPEAKER_00 (10:10):
That's awesome.
That is awesome.
That's good stuff.
That's good stuff.
So um, for our viewers, pleasetake this in what Dr.
Jackson is saying uh when itcomes to your children and when
it comes to your the teachers ofyour children and um and the
non-negotiables.
Right.
Definitely, definitely, and I'mserious about that, teacher.
(10:32):
We need a list of these are yournon-negotiables.
Non-negotiables, definitely.
Now, let's um talk about thiseducational scholarship trust
fund that the legislators havethis law that has been passed.
So they're mixed with views andfeelings about this um trust
(10:52):
fund and about the vouchersystem.
So can you speak on the pros andcons uh of these distributions?
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
Sure.
Um I guess one of the pros couldpotentially be, you know, this
is no more than choice.
And uh, of course, I I I like tobe able to choose to make my own
choices.
And so uh, you know, forexample, if I go to the grocery
store and they've got severaldifferent kinds of milk there, I
(11:19):
want to be able to select themilk that I want.
I don't want someone telling meyou've got to purchase this kind
of milk.
So from that standpoint, uh uhschool trust vouchers are can be
construed as a good thing.
But now I'm gonna be heavy onthe not so good things because I
believe in public education.
(11:40):
Um I'm a proponent of publiceducation.
I went to the public schools, Iworked in the public schools, so
I'm always gonna be a proponent.
And so when the General Assemblyfirst uh rolled this out, uh
they were going to do it withtax dollars.
And so uh in the firstiteration, it came out using tax
dollars, and uh uh there was thelitigation against it.
(12:02):
And so the South CarolinaSupreme Court ruled that
vouchers could not be, could notuse tax dollars.
Uh, because some of these weregoing to parochial schools, and
so there would be a separationof church and state.
So this this the uh the uhSupreme South Carolina Supreme
Court said you can't use taxdollars to fund these vouchers.
(12:23):
So the General Assembly decided,well, how can we get around
that?
And so they said, well, wait aminute, we can use lottery
money.
You know, those are not taxdollars, so we can use lottery
money.
So that's what they've done.
And so um I I'm just concernedthat uh we will have a mass
exodus from public schools, anduh uh those who can will take
(12:49):
advantage of that.
And as we as this happens,schools are gonna be browner and
blacker uh uh than they've everbeen.
Uh however, I think there's apanacea for this, and I think
that if uh uh you know you and Iwere talking earlier about uh
the role that I believe uh theAfrican American church can play
in filling some of these gaps.
(13:09):
Uh we know that uh there's amovement across this nation uh
to change uh the face of publiceducation, and not only to
change the face face of publiceducation, but the curriculum
that what's being taught.
So we need to be concerned aboutwho's teaching it and what's
being taught.
And so uh the the concept, forexample, that's one of the
concepts that has been uh uh uhfostered in some of the
(13:31):
curriculum that the StateDepartment of Education has
looked at is slavery was notsuch a bad thing.
Well, you know, uh let's ask theslave that.
I think he or she would say, Ibeg to differ.
And so um, just like there arelots of folks who are taking
advantage of these uh vouchersand and money, why not have our
churches say, well, you knowwhat, we can do that too.
(13:54):
So, you know, why can't SavannahGrove Baptist Church start a
school?
You know, why can't SavannahGrove Baptist Church take
advantage of these resources?
Because other folk are doingthat.
You know, so this door that hasbeen opened, you know, there's
an adage of, you know, I can Ican beat you at your own game.
So what you're doing, you knowwhat, I can do that too.
(14:16):
Yes.
So um there's some good in it,but I think that we need to, uh
as African Americans, we need totake advantage of these
opportunities.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (14:27):
Uh we've got a we've got a society right now that I
believe is uh trying to rewriteour history and and whitewash
our history.
And so um, in order to combatthat, uh we should get these
resources.
We should teach our children,uh, we should uh uh take the
place, stand in the gap forthose things that are not being
(14:48):
taught for our children.
And we can do that with orwithout resources, but you and I
both know it would work a lotbetter if you had resources
because then you could hirestaff, you can do all these
things that these other folk aredoing.
So I challenge us, I challengeevery every African-American
church that's watching thispodcast that invest in your
children.
Look at your look at what youcan do to combat this attack on
(15:10):
public education.
SPEAKER_00 (15:12):
Yes, that's great.
And like you said, there arechurches out there that are
doing it.
Right.
Um in Columbia, um, my daughteris involved in a church.
It's called Soarin EaglesChristian Academy.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
Uh-huh.
And um they have the childrenthere, they're just awesome.
Um, and they are hands-on, andit's an it's a wonderful thing.
So you are correct.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (15:36):
Let's let's, you know, there's an old carpe diem.
Let's seize the day.
Yes.
Let's, you know, let's when youwhen you give me lemons, I'm
gonna make some lemonade out ofit.
So let's take advantage of thisopportunity that other folk are
also taking advantage of.
So the onus is on us to do whatwe can while we can.
SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Yes, yes, great, great.
So, now let's look at this.
How does the state of educationnow compare to how it was when
you first began your journey asan educator?
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Wow, it it's an excellent question.
It it has it has changeddramatically because uh I can
remember, you know, as a schoolteacher having to do lesson
plans and trying to pullresources from here or there.
And I tell people this story.
Um, my mother, I was blessed tohave a, you know, I loved my
mother because she was such animp a role model for me.
(16:27):
She only went to the sixthgrade, but she wanted me, and
this is a common denominatorthat I share with people all the
time, is that I don't care whatchild that you've got in front
of you, if you were trying torelate to the parent, there's
one seminal question that youcan ask is, and that is this
ma'am or sir, would you wantyour child to have a better life
than you've had?
I don't care what else is outthere, but if you ask that
(16:49):
seminal question, nine times outof ten, or 99.9% of the time,
the parent is gonna say yes.
So then, okay, well then look,what can we do together to make
that a reality?
But anyway, my mother, um, uh,again, to date myself, she
bought a set of World Bookencyclopedias.
I think everybody had those samethings.
And so she said to me, everynight before we go to bed,
(17:12):
you're gonna read from thisencyclopedia to me.
And so I went from the letter Aall the way to the letter Z.
Wow.
Um, but to answer your question,so we were using your I mean uh
uh encyclopedias, and well, nowyou know you've got a device,
you know, that within secondsyou can pull up information.
And so um the use of technologyis just amazing and the
(17:37):
resources that are availableright now.
And one of the things that we doat the uh at the at the uh PD
Education Center is that weprovide training uh for staff on
how to utilize this technology.
And so um we had a lady come inuh a couple last month and she
was showing how to create alesson plan, uh, you know,
pulling from all of thesedifferent resources and having
(17:59):
video, you know, on demand, uh,you know, so you're not having
to pull it from a book.
I mean, it's right, you've got ascreen up and you're pulling
information and you in realtime, you know, if you want if
you're talking about theGettysburg address, for example.
Right.
You could pull up and have avideo of someone actually
reading the Gettysburg in realtime.
Right.
And so the use of technology hasjust changed the landscape
(18:20):
dramatically.
However, I will I would cautionthe audience about this, is that
this, what you've got and whatI've got is just a tool, is a
tool.
Yes.
It's not the end all or be all,it is just another resource, no
different than your car or theblender that you use to make a
cake.
It is a tool.
That's it.
And do not, do not, if you don'thear, if you don't listen to
(18:41):
anything else I say tonight, donot let this raise your
children.
Oh yeah.
Do not let this raise yourchildren.
It is a tool.
Nothing more, nothing less, andit is a resource.
Um, when I was a kid, I used tobe the first, I was the first
person at school every day.
You know, I lived right behindNorth Vista Elementary School.
Okay.
I was the first person thereevery day.
And uh the librarian was niceenough because she got there
(19:03):
early.
She would let me come into thelibrary and I would read.
And so when I becamesuperintendent, I um went back,
I was visiting North Vista oneday, and I said, Um, I'm gonna
go see if I can find a book thatI checked out when I was a
child.
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (19:19):
So I went to the card catalog.
Again, this is before they hadevolved the technology, which is
the card catalog, and found thename of the book and went to the
shelf and I found the book.
Oh found the book, I opened thebook, and you know, the card
that would be in the back of thechat, found the card in the back
of the book, and guess what?
SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
Your name my name was still on it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
And at one point I was happy, but then I thought no
one else has checked this bookout.
And that bothered me because Ithought, you know, as a child,
I'm I'm a I'm an old man at thispoint, and I thought nobody else
has checked this book out.
And so it bothered me because Ithought, you know, my going to
the library then, you know, wewere poor, didn't have a lot,
(20:01):
but I could go to the libraryand I could go to Italy or I
could go to Europe or I could goanywhere through reading or
through the resources.
So parents have again, as aparent, you need to know what
your child is doing.
You need to know what they'rereading, what what technology
they're using.
That's right.
Because it could be a good thingor it could be a bad thing.
(20:21):
And there are people on thatthat are wanting to raise your
children if you let them.
Yes.
You know, who want to getinvolved with your children if
you if you let them.
So to ask your question,technology, it's like night and
day.
SPEAKER_00 (20:34):
And that's um, that leads to my next question about
the pros and cons to the heavyuse of technology and
instruction today.
And then and also AI, I want youto talk a little bit about that.
Because, you know, sometimeswhen I'm using AI, I feel like
I'm cheating.
SPEAKER_01 (20:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, well.
You know, I I I you know, partof what I do every day at work
is I I get to work early and Iread all these educational
journals, and then I send thisinformation out to our
superintendents.
And so um the article that Isent out yesterday was about AI
and its pros and cons.
Right.
And that um we have to be verycareful.
(21:15):
You know, you've got kids whowho have allowed AI to write
their term papers.
Right.
That's the right thing.
And so you have to be verycareful uh to not let that take
the place of going to thelibrary and doing research on
your own and not lettingtechnology do all of the work
for you.
And so that that is a tremendousconcern.
(21:35):
Uh, that um uh here's anotherexample.
I was talking to superintendentstoday, and I was trying to
relate uh a story to them, and Isaid, um uh I'm an avid reader,
big time reader my whole life.
And so I was saying to them, andthis is Halloween coming up,
that um uh Washington Irving uhwrote The Legend of Sleepy
Hollow, and that the titlecharacter in that story is a man
(21:58):
named Ichabod Crane, uh who wasa school teacher.
Uh, but that I said to them, Didyou did you know that the name
Ichabod appears in the Bible?
And they were like, What are youtalking about?
See, it appears in the Bible in1 Samuel 421.
There's a story about someonenamed Ichabod.
And Ichabod was uh the man wasnamed Ichabod because uh the
(22:20):
Philistines had stolen the Arkof the Covenant.
And so uh Eli's daughter was sodistraught over that having
happened, she named her sonIchabod.
And the name Ichabod meanswithout worth or without value.
And so I was saying that allchildren have value, and that uh
as a teacher, as an educator, weneed to see the value in these
(22:40):
children, and that um I wouldnot have known that had I not
researched it, had I notutilized some technology, right?
Figured I could have gotten theBible and thumbed through it and
tried to find it, but I couldput in a search about Ichabod
and I found out that Ichabod'sname appears in the Bible.
So um, you know, usingtechnology can be a good thing,
(23:02):
right?
But we have to monitor, youknow, and educators are gonna
have to monitor to make surethat you that the child is the
author of whatever it is they'returning in.
SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
That's right, because it uh some I feel that
somewhat it may dumb us down.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
You know, not we aren't utilizing our gifts or
our brains.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
Exactly.
And so um I here's a here'sanother story that I tell folk
all the time.
You know, uh again, L.
Frank Baum wrote The Wizard ofOz.
And there are five characters inthat story.
I think it's five.
It's uh Dorothy, uh thescarecrow, the lion, and the tin
man in Toto.
Right.
And so um, you know, in thestory they go off on a mission
and they get the broom and theybring it back, and so then they
(23:44):
discover that the wizard is justa man behind the curtain.
But what he does is he comes outand he says uh to Dorothy, he
says to the scarecrow, you knowwhat, you wanted a brain, so uh
I'm gonna give you a diploma,and all of a sudden the
scarecrow becomes smart.
And then he says to the lion,you know, you wanted courage, so
I'm gonna pin a metal on you,and all of a sudden you're gonna
be courageous.
Then he says to the tin man,Well, you wanted a heart, so he
(24:05):
pins a metal on him that was theshape of a heart, and all of a
sudden he becomes compassionate.
And then he tells to Dorothy,you know, you wanted to go home,
but you had the ability to gohome all the time.
But the question is, did he givethem something that they didn't
already have?
No, they had it already, butthey needed somebody to bring it
out.
The problem that problems.
Yeah, so that's what teachers,that's what educators are
(24:26):
supposed to do.
There's something of value inevery child.
There's no child who child who'san ichabod, but there's some
value in each child, and then itbehooves the educator to get it
out.
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
My last question is for parents.
What can parents do tosupplement their child's
learning?
SPEAKER_01 (24:48):
Well, I go back to those non-negotiables.
There you go.
I need to know, you know, Imean, do you have homework
tonight?
No, yes, you do.
But I don't, yes, you do.
Well, but we've already no, youdo.
And so if you've done italready, then I want you to read
ahead.
I want you to look ahead.
Look, you know, there'ssomething that I heard Dr.
(25:08):
Candy talking about recentlycalled vision casting.
And vision casting just meanslooking beyond where you are
right now.
Right.
Looking ahead.
And so, parents, you know, haveyour child look ahead.
You know, um, our granddaughterum was back during COVID.
Uh, she was in uh she was withus and she was studying here in
(25:31):
Florida, she was enrolled at aat a Florence school.
And then her mother gottransferred to England.
And so they moved to England,but we decided that because she
was already enrolled here andthey were virtual, that she
could just continue virtuallyfrom England.
Okay.
So um, but we said, don't tellanybody, don't tell your
teachers, because they won'tknow where you are.
(25:51):
All they'll know is you'll logon, just like everybody else in
Florence is logging on, andyou'll just participate in the
lesson, but don't say anything.
SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
So they happened to be studying, and they were in
England.
So they happened to be studyingsomething about Westminster
Abbey and Buckingham Palace.
And so she couldn't hold itanymore.
She said, I pass by that everyday.
Oh.
I passed by that every day.
(26:20):
So, of course, we had to explainto the folks here in Florence.
She's not in Florence anymore,but by that time the year was
about over.
Okay.
And so it worked out.
But again, getting engaged withyour children, giving them some
experiences, uh, don't just relyon the school.
As I said, it's a it's a it's ait's a uh a three-legged stool.
(26:42):
And so, you know, learning nevershould never end.
When the summer comes, don'tsay, okay, wow, it's over.
No, you keep them engaged.
Because we have found in all theresearch says that downtime, uh,
particularly in the summer whenyou've got these large gaps, uh,
that they children tend toregress.
And so you want to keep them,keep that pump prime, like you
said.
(27:02):
Keep them learning.
Uh uh, either you're green andgrowing or you're ripe and
rotten.
And so um uh, you know, we we wewant to do either you're green
and growing or you're ripe androtten.
And so we want children to begreen and growing.
And so um, as I said, you know,you keep keep pouring in the
children, it's like aninvestment.
You know, if you invest in yourchild, you know, I I applaud
(27:24):
parents who are actively engagedin their children's lives.
Yes, yes, you know, and it's soeasy to use a device to take
your place, but please don't dothat.
Uh stay engaged, stay involved.
You know, I would and I wouldsay I'm not gonna let schools
off easy now because you know, II tell folk all the time when
schools say we want parents tobe involved.
Is that what you really want?
Because if you really wantparents to be involved, then
(27:44):
you're gonna invite them, you'regonna have them come in, and
you're not gonna put up thesethese barriers, you know, to not
make parents feel welcome inyour classroom.
If you want that collegialityand if you want to work together
with parents, then you extendit, you extend that olive branch
and say, you're welcome to comeinto my classroom anytime.
You're welcome to call me at anytime if you've got a problem.
So don't be a don't let thatfirst meeting be a negative
(28:06):
meeting.
Right.
Let it be a positive and thenbuild off of that positive.
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
And then answer the emails when they're yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
You know, there's there's nothing worse than
telling people to reach out tocontact you, and then you don't
respond.
You don't respond.
I mean, I uh that's a pet peeveof mine.
When I was working here, we hadwe were the first school to have
a website.
SPEAKER_00 (28:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
In Florence one, when I was principal at
Williams.
We were the first school to havea website.
We were one of the first schoolsto um to have what we call, it
was a phone line called SIN,Student Information Network,
where parents could call in orkids could call in to say, hey,
listen, you might want to knowthis, you know, there's a fight
that's gonna happen or whatever.
So we were one of the first todo that.
You know, I started the IBprogram here in Florence when I
(28:45):
was working, so you know, I gota lot of skins on the wall.
But I I I none of these thingswould have happened if I hadn't
been smart enough to know Idon't know everything, but I can
I can get information from otherpeople.
And schools have become silos,and that's the worst thing that
could happen.
You don't want to be a silo, youwant to be open, you want to
invite people in, and you youmay learn something from them
(29:06):
while they're coming to learnsomething from you.
And so, but but mostimportantly, know your students,
know their parents.
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
Uh that's the key to success.
Amen.
Amen.
I I like that.
Know your students.
That's uh um I'm raisingchildren for the second time,
and I'm almost at the end of it.
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
Aren't we all?
SPEAKER_00 (29:27):
Yes, because TJ is now 18, he's a senior at West
Florence.
But um I found that um I likethe email, okay, and um when
Octavius was going to the Royal,I um talked to the teacher and
said, let's be a team.
You're a team of teachers, teamup with the family so that we
(29:48):
can make the child a successstory.
Right.
And that's when they reallybegin to engage with him.
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
Yeah, if if if you as a parent let the teacher know
that you're engaged, and you'regonna get back what you put.
In.
And so if they know that you'reengaging and that you want to
know about your child's success,and don't call me when the
problem happens, let me know theminute you see something, get
ready to happen.
You tend to be more successful,and it becomes a pleasant
experience.
It should never be, oh Lord,here they come.
(30:14):
No, it's no, I oh yes, here theycome.
And I'm welcome, and I'mwelcoming them and I want them
to be involved.
So it's a partnership, and itwill never be successful unless
everybody's doing their part.
Amen.
SPEAKER_00 (30:25):
Amen.
Well, Dr.
Jackson, you have been soenlightening.
Thank you.
Thank you ever so much forjoining us here.
Appreciate it.
And Native Drums and the DoorsSwing Open for you to come back
again.
SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
Well, I want to before I finish, let me say this
too.
As a child, I used to come outhere to church.
I was friends with the cruises.
That's right.
Patty Cruise, and it was kind oflike a second mom to me.
And so I can remember cominghere as a child, I think, with
Reverend Lund.
Now, yeah.
Yeah, that's that's how farback.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, that's how far back Iremember coming and listening to
him.
And I thought he was a I mean hewas just a riveting pastor, but
(30:56):
I remember that as a childcoming here.
So I do have some Savannah GroveRoots.
SPEAKER_00 (31:00):
Yeah, you have some roots here.
All right.
Welcome home.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
All right.
Well, everyone, thank you everso much for joining us here at
Native Drums.
And uh, we'll be back on nextweek, so make sure you tune in.
This is Jocelia Williams sittingin for Dr.
Ralph W.
Canty Sr., pastor of SavannahGrove Baptist Church.
(31:21):
Have a great evening.
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