February 9, 2025 • 48 mins
What if the stories you’ve been told have only scratched the surface of history? Join us on a journey with Dr. Henry H. Singleton III, a distinguished scholar in African-American history, as he uncovers the layers of struggle and triumph that have shaped the African American experience. Raised in a household that championed education and activism, Dr. Singleton brings unparalleled insight and passion to the conversation. Together, we emphasize the vital role of understanding our history to create a future of empowerment and unity.
Explore the powerful symbolism of drums in African American culture, once tools of communication and resistance during the darkest times of slavery. We confront the lingering shadows of economic exploitation and the pervasive influence of media and religion in controlling black narratives. Let’s reexamine the role of the black church and its mission to fight systemic injustices, urging a return to prophetic ministries that prioritize humanity and community over material wealth. This podcast episode is not just a reflection of the past but a call to action for the future, urging us to build a more just and liberated world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello America, welcome to Native Drums.
For some time, this program hasbeen a vision of the pastor and
people of God known as SavannahGrove Baptist Church in
(00:21):
Effingham, south Carolina.
In part, it is a response toAmerica's decision to whitewash
the history of its Africanpeople.
It's a history we did notchoose to create.
(00:49):
It's a history forced upon us,one out of deceit.
Deception, death, mutvation,rape, disenfranchisement.
(01:18):
Nevertheless, it's a brilliant,a brilliant history, a history
(02:08):
that has survived the atrocitiesof the transatlantic, the slave
market, the plantation,sharecropping, gem-croism, jim
(02:42):
Crowism, separate and unequalschools, segregation, meanness,
hatred, discrimination, yes, andeven plagiarism.
It's a history, a brillianthistory, a proud history of a
(03:24):
people who could not read orwrite.
Yet they produced greatscholars and stellar individuals
, like George Washington, carverand Boogity Washington and
(03:45):
Benjamin E Mays and Mary McLeod,bethune.
And, yes, built wonderfulinstitutions of higher learning
like Bethune-Cookman andTuskegee Institute and Morehouse
(04:07):
College and Allen Universityand Bennett College and Morris
College, and scores of othersthat still serve our children.
It's a history of a people whogave to the world great minds
(04:36):
like unto WEB, du Bois andThurgood Marshall, a people who,
through the blood of theslaughtered, gave us Harriet and
(05:01):
Sojourner Truth Rosa Parks,medgar Evers, malcolm Jordan,
(05:33):
adam Clayton, powell, jr Harris,robert E McNair, charles R Drew
, and the list just goes on andon.
(06:17):
I do think that Mr Trump and hiscronies are embarrassed that a
people who had to, they masteredthe struggle and became major
(06:39):
figures in the broader historyof this country.
That's one reason.
There is another reason forthis program it represents the
African church struggling toreclaim its voice and role as
(07:11):
the ultimate liberator of thebody, soul and mind of the
people of God and all people.
God has chosen the Africanchurch to under shepherd his
(07:35):
flock, to aid, to abet and toadvocate, to lift the people of
God, to lead, to protect, toprovide, defend.
So we give to you, native drums, a voice to and enrich each one
(08:08):
of us.
The chains and shackles may beremoved from the body, the wrist
, the waist, the legs, but untilyour mind is free, you are
(08:32):
still enslaved.
Paul said in the book of Romansthe renewing of your mind.
Native drums is not a rhythm toexcite your emotions.
(08:58):
Native drums is an instrumentto illumine your minds.
I'm going to pause now for aninterview with Dr Henry H
Singleton III and then remarks.
(09:20):
Dr Singleton, it is really agreat delight to have you.
(09:51):
We are excited about Nativedrums.
We're equally excited that youare our very first guest and our
first lecturer.
Our first lecturer, welcome toNative Drums, and we anticipate
(10:13):
a long and wonderfulrelationship as we work together
to enlighten, inform andinspire the community.
Now I've known you for a long,long time and I know that you're
a PK.
Your dad was a great preacher,a dear friend of mine.
(10:35):
I know that you worked atBenedict College for a number of
years and now at the university, a scholar in your own right.
But tell our audience a bitmore about you, because you are
going to be a major figure inwhat we do in this programming.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Well, first of all, pastor, course of my integrity
to select me to lead thispodcast, which I hope will have
a major impact in the life ofthe black church going forward.
For we know that, of course,history is the door to our
future.
And so, if we don't know ourhistory, future, and so if we
(11:31):
don't know our history, ourfuture will not be planned well
and we'll be repeating ourselvescontinuously like people who do
, who don't know their history.
And so, in that sense, I amsomeone who is committed to
making sure our people know asmuch about their history as
possible, so that it willheighten their conscience and
bring them a more informedperspective relative to their
daily lives and relative totheir place in history, relative
(11:55):
to the life of this nationwherein black people have always
been the moral conscience ofthis country.
And we've been the moralconscience of this country
because we have occupied asubordinate and marginalized
status.
And so, in that sense, ourhistory is America's history and
(12:18):
America's history is ours.
And so I did grow up in thestate of South Carolina, born
and bred in Conway, southCarolina, near the coast.
I am a PK and of course that'sa preacher's kid for those who
don't know pastored by ReverendHH Singleton, cherry Hill
Baptist Church in Conway, southCarolina, where I grew up, and I
grew up in the shadows of thechurch, right behind it, in the
parsonage, and, of course, I wasraised in a home where we were
(12:41):
taught by our father that themost contributory life is a life
that contributes both to theedification of the body and to
the mind, and in doing so youenhance the spirit.
And for him, that was hismoniker, that was the philosophy
by which he lived, which wasevidenced in not only him being
(13:05):
a pastor, but he was also asocial activist, being a pastor,
but he was also a socialactivist, and he was also
someone who was deeply involvedin the community and in national
affairs, especially as itrelates to the advancement of
people of color and women.
And so out of that milieu Icome as a graduate of the
University of South Carolina,where I did a cognitive in
(13:27):
African-American history underthe late great Dean Willie
Hereford, who passed away just afew years ago, and I feel
privileged to be teaching in theAfrican-American Studies
Department at the University ofSouth Carolina.
Wow, wow, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
A tradition, a heritage, and God, we're just so
blessed to have you to agree tobe a part of what we are
attempting to do.
Congregation just recently thatone of our churches has just
(14:11):
converted its church schooldepartment into a history, black
history, an African Americanhistory forum and another church
and another dear friend hasmade a major shift in the
(14:36):
teachings at their church, justcompleted a study on
generational wealth and now theyare dedicating their midweek
Bible study to the book ofExodus, with an emphasis on
(14:57):
liberation and the history ofour people as it relates to the
story of Exodus us.
And then we've got our littlechurch, a rural church here in
Effingham, south Carolina, whichis just outside of Florence,
and we are beginning thispodcast and attempting to bring
(15:21):
some of our best minds to thetable to lead the entire
community in a study that isdesigned to empower us to move
to another level.
What is your opinion of thismovement, this shift, as the
(15:47):
church seems to be moving moretoward reclaiming its voice as a
liberate of our people?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, dr Canney, as we well know, that those
conversant with our historyrealize that racism mutates
itself in each and everygeneration.
We had a type of racism duringslavery that sanctioned slavery
as being ordained of God.
(16:18):
Post-slavery, we had asegregated racism that
segregated on the basis of raceand preached from the Bible that
the races should be separated.
Preached from the Bible that theraces should be separated.
And now we are living in apost-racial racist era where we
are being inundated by whitebrothers and sisters with
pretensions of post-racialism,where racial antagonisms and
(16:42):
white privilege still is verymuch alive and well in American
life.
And so, in light of that, I amextremely pleased that Black
churches have taken the lead inestablishing a liberating
presence in its institutionallife, which has been sorely
needed, especially when we takeinto consideration the removal
(17:06):
of DEI programs, the removal ofaffirmative action programs,
using critical race theory as awrecking ball to demolish
indigenous affirmations of blackhumanity, banning black books
in public schools and, of course, banning black authors as well,
seemingly brazenly and withlittle or no shame that the
(17:27):
black church is stepping up withthese measures, in my judgment,
to be what it is needed to bein each generation to maximize
its value in the life of theblack community and subsequently
in the life of the nation, tothink where we would be as a
(17:51):
nation, as a society, evenrelative to the level and the
depth of our conscience, had itnot been for the black church,
and so, in this sense, I amextremely excited about the
black church's participation inthis process that will heighten
the conscience of our people and, even happier, to be a part of
that process.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Great, great, great.
As you know, we have tagged ourpodcast Native Drums.
To me, it's a major salute toour forebears.
A major salute to our forebears.
(18:32):
Unfortunately, a number of usassumed that drums in our
culture was about rhythm, wasabout dance, about feelings and
emotions.
But the drums really had a farmore technical role in the
(19:01):
conversation between tribes andbetween our people, from
plantation to plantation.
Is there anything you want tosay to us about the role of
drums in the life of our people?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, because of the particulars of slavery, and in
particular, a slave code passedin our illustrious state of
South Carolina in 1712maintained that slaves could not
gather in numbers larger thanfives.
And the reason why this slavecode was enacted by the South
Carolina state legislature is tominimize the chances of slaves
(19:45):
organizing for insurrection, thechances of slaves organizing
for insurrection.
And so, since we couldn't meetin groups larger than five, we
then used the drum tocommunicate to those on the
plantation about insurrections,the time of those insurrections,
the place of thoseinsurrections and the date of
those insurrections.
And so, in that sense, eventhough they thought they were
(20:08):
preventing us from engaging ininsurrection by not allowing us
to gather in groups larger thanfive, in essence they are
compelling us to fall back on anold custom from Africa itself
that survived the plantation andwas not completely obliterated
by the ravages of whitesupremacy.
And those native drums servedas a medium of communication
(20:33):
during slavery and as a basisfor organizing ourselves for
insurrection against slavery andto, of course, run away from
the plantation with the intentto topple the institution
ultimately.
And so I'm glad that this wasselected as the name of the
podcast, because it represents anew and indigenous way of
(20:55):
communicating as a people inwhich we begin to renew our
interests, not only in Africa,but renew our interests also in
our blackness, relative to itsliberating and transformative
dimension.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, it's amazing no , no Mars code.
No, no telegram, no telephone,no television.
But our people were geniusenough to create their own
system of communications.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
And of course as you have just suggested.
A part of the evil mind ofoppression was this whole matter
of keeping our people divided,separated, polarized, not only
(22:00):
polarization among races, butthen polarization among
ourselves Absolutely.
Which brings me to anotherpoint.
I think it was Ronald Reagan,when he was president, said to
(22:25):
African Americans you don't needa leader.
You know, unfortunately, Ithink, a number of our people
bought into that ridiculousideology.
It was a false philosophy andmany have turned away from the
(22:48):
church, turned away fromorganizations committed to
liberation, turned away evenfrom social entities, and have
become more moved by this spiritof isolation and individualism
(23:14):
which, in my opinion, criticallyundermines the movement.
Yes, what is there anythingyou'd like to say to that issue?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, part of part of part of white control over
black bodies historically hashad to do principally with
controlling mediums of masscommunication, and so, in light
of that, african-americans inmany instances have tended to
take their cue as to how toengage and live American life
(23:47):
from the white media and fromwhite politicians and leaders,
while at the same time tellingus that we don't need leaders
and that's to remove the blackleader who would bring about a
contrary or differentmethodology that was rooted more
in unity and not more inindividual accomplishment, which
has been the message sent to usby the white media and white
(24:08):
political leaders and, of course, ronald Reagan, as you
mentioned, saying we don't needa leader.
The same thing, unfortunately,has happened as it relates to
the life of the church, and fartoo many black people have taken
their cue from whiteevangelical leaders who preach a
personalistic theology, whopreach primarily an otherworldly
theology and who preachprimarily in otherworldly
(24:29):
theology and who preach achurchy theology in which
members should only be concernedabout the condition of the
building of the church andgiving to the church and not be
concerned about the life of thecommunity beyond the church.
This was done with directintentionality and it was done
primarily to control thethinking of black people.
(24:51):
My father used to say all thetime that Lerone Bennett, the
editor at Jet Magazine, wouldalways say he who controls
images controls minds, and hewho controls minds has little or
no fair bodies.
And so all of it was done forthe purpose of maintaining
social control of black peopleexploiting their labor so that
(25:12):
they could benefit economicallyfrom it.
And they have.
It's been a transgenerationaljourney of wealth increase,
namely because you can increaseyour wealth because you didn't
have to pay your employees.
We are still calling forreparations as black people, for
for not being compensated likewe should have during the slave
trade, where we receive nothingfor our labor.
(25:34):
And so you know, as JesseJackson said, you almost have to
be a genius to figure out howto fail at a business when you
don't have to pay your employees.
I mean, if you think about it,you know every, every cent you
make is your profit.
You don't have to pay theemployees, you don't have to pay
health insurance, dentalinsurance, workman's comp, you
don't have to pay anything.
And so that wealth accumulatedfor our white brothers and
(25:57):
sisters over several generations.
We even refer to it now,particularly in many southern
cities, when we ride through andsee these houses as you ride
into these cities, these bigwhite houses, and we say that's
old money.
And it really is old money.
And so in that sense, thepurpose has been to generate
untold numbers of economicwealth and prosperity, which has
(26:20):
happened off the backs of blacklabor, which has been free in
nature, and so the mediums ofmass communication and, of
course, a virulent theology thatis now morphed into this
prosperity ministries that wesee today, that really allow
white people to prosper,individuals not black people to
prosper at all, except for a few.
Here and there haveunfortunately been the cues by
(26:42):
which black people have imbibedwhat is considered decent and,
of course, far-reaching living.
And of course that philosophyof living in national life has
to be challenged by us.
It has always been challengedby us, because it not only does
not take into account thetransformation of the masses of
people who work two, three, fourjobs to make ends meet, and yet
(27:05):
the salaries of those two,three, four jobs are are such a
paucity of an amount that theycan't eke out a comfortable
living.
And so our struggle has alwaysbeen not how we keep the masses
content with their situation,but how we can transform the
condition of the masses so thatthe richest country in the world
(27:26):
can extend that wealth to thepeople who really built this
country and who continue to bethe engine that makes America go
.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Exactly.
I say all the time and I'mcertainly no scholar as you I
say all of the time that fromthe very beginning the wealth of
this country has been producedby our people, absolutely.
They simply did not have thegenius nor the muscle to create
(28:04):
the infrastructure nor thewealth of this country.
They failed miserably in theearly days of development.
They tried to engage theAmerican natives and that failed
.
And prosperity only began toturn the corner when our people
(28:31):
came to America and on theirsweat and blood built the wealth
of this country.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And in fact, that's why we were selected.
Yes, west Africans wereselected, not because of the
narrative that went out inhistory that we were living in a
dark continent, running aroundwith bones in our nose and
swinging from vines, with nocivilization, but because of the
opposite we were selected forenslavement by European planters
(29:01):
because we did have developedsocieties, that we were skilled
artisans in what was needed.
They were already ahead of thecurve in terms of economic
development, global economicdevelopment, and that's why West
Africans were selected.
They were selected because oftheir ability to be able to till
soil and to be able to do itwith a know-how that can create
(29:23):
a maximum profit for Europeanplanters.
And when you combine that withthe fact that West Africans were
not immune, or that they wereimmune rather, to European
diseases, particularly coldinfluenza, right that didn't.
That didn't bode well for us,but it certainly bode well for
them, because we're someone whodoesn't get sick as much as
(29:44):
Europeans do and we could worklonger hours because of it.
Like I said, it's a greatpersonality trait to have for
people, but it didn't help us interms of being selected for the
slave trade itself.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
What would you say to that young man, that young
woman in our culture that sensesfrustration because they can't
(30:20):
seem to get a foundation, afooting, and are not in the
broader sense of succeeding inlife?
What can you say to them aboutwho we are and about our history
(30:42):
that might inspire them?
To look at life differently andfrom a point of genius and
strength.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I think the best thing to do as black people is
if you live your life and I toolabored under this false
assumption for years earlier inmy life that your goal is to get
(31:16):
solid footing, as you put itthe reality is is that we've
never really had solid footingas a people.
We have always had to channelour frustration into a higher
way of being in the world.
We had to channel ourfrustration into fight, because
(31:36):
if we didn't channel ourfrustration into fight we would
become an extinct people.
So my advice would be, as muchas you can, become uncomfortable
, or remain uncomfortable withthe fact that you don't have
solid footing, that successultimately in life must not be
(32:00):
measured by monetary gain.
It must be measured bycontribution to the onward march
of human civilization, which isone of the things my father
taught me years ago march ofhuman civilization, which is one
of the things my father taughtme years ago.
And so once you begin to lookbecause even personally, things
have happened in my life thatwere tremendous setbacks Things
continue to happen in my lifethat are continued setbacks, and
(32:21):
I think one of the universalsof living is that none of us are
really happy personally withwhere we are in life, that we
are to some degree content, butpart of the existential
restlessness of living in thisworld is being able to be a
contributory citizen, not onlyto nation but to world as well,
(32:44):
even as you live in the midst ofthose personal foibles and the
personal perfection you'reseeking continues to remain an
elusive quest.
That, as you are, that as youare seeking that perfection and
contentment in life as you havedefined it, that there's also a
larger call for you to be acontributory member to human
(33:05):
civilization.
Because, at the end of the day,your deeds will be judged not on
how much material wealth youhoarded up.
It won't be judged on how bigyour house was.
It won't be judged on how manyluxury cars you bought or how
many places in the world youwent on these grand vacations.
It would be ultimately measuredby the impact you have had on
(33:27):
the lives of other people.
Measured by the impact you havehad on the lives of other
people.
And so, until that comes to theforefront of your being, in
terms of why you're on thisearth, as Mark Twain said, the
two most important days in yourlife are the day you were born
and the day you find out why youwere born.
And so when you discover yourmeaning and your purpose in life
(33:49):
and seek that meaning andpurpose and come to find it,
you'll discover that all theother things that were giving
you frustration before just justbegin to pale in terms of
significance relative to what'sreally important in life.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Hey, let's, let's push the issue, and I'm not
going to hold you much longer.
I just appreciate yourconversation and your presence
with us, but let's push theissue a bit further, because I
am sensing an ever increasingtension between the church and
(34:37):
the community.
Unfortunately, there are forcesthat are disengaged in church,
where the strength of ourcommunity lies, to mobilize in
(35:11):
such a way not to push forwardbut to undermine what the church
is doing, if there is going tobe two entities, the two should
at least be on the same course,headed in the same direction.
(35:32):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Well, in many ways, this could be an opportunity for
the church, namely because, inmany ways, religion does not
compel us to listen.
It compels us to absorb andinternalize a theological
(36:00):
perspective and impose it onother people.
And what we have internalizedin the black church in its
history in fact, it's one of mysegments on the podcast
internalized in the black churchin its history In fact, it's
one of my segments on thepodcast is that, as I said
earlier, we have internalized ahighly evangelical understanding
of how Christian faith shouldbe expressed, and we forget
(36:22):
sometimes, in light of that,that in the early church,
pastors understood and churchleaders understood that a
theological intelligentsia hadto be created so that the church
would never stray religion.
Theologians to critique thechurch so that the church does
not lose sight of its mission toliberate, and the tension was
(37:00):
created when the church becamemore of a middle and upper class
institution and it was occupiedby members who had obtained
their wealth through curry infavor with the system, and so
they did not want a church inwhich its leadership criticized
(37:21):
the system by which they werebenefiting.
So there's your tension, and sowe're at a crossroads now at a
black community, though, and sowe're at a crossroads now, at a
black community, though, where Ithink that there are voices,
because some of the voices thatyou mentioned in the community
actually grew up in the churchyes, they grew up in the church
and have strayed from the church, namely because many churches
(37:43):
have arrogantly continued topromote a neo-evangelical
theology that is primarilyconcerned with otherworldliness,
and I think those voices aresaying we want to hear in our
songs, sermons and prayersthings that speak to our
contemporary condition, thatspeak to our contemporary
(38:05):
oppression, that speak tocontemporary racism, sexism,
misogyny, poverty, and thatwe're not hearing those messages
come across in the church, andI think it's an opportunity for
the church to listen and anopportunity for the church to
reinvent itself in the way ofliberation, to be in tune with
(38:28):
the Exodus narrative, asBrooklyn is doing, to do a
podcast on black history, to beunashamedly indigenous and to
say we are a black church and weare in the business of trying
to create a liberated existencefor our people, a tradition of
which started from slaveryitself.
(38:48):
And I think if, as we say in theBaptist church, we have a
period of rededication towardthe end of the service, there is
the call now for churches,black churches of all
denominations, to rededicateitself to prophetic ministries
that address systems ofinjustice and not continue in a
(39:10):
path of thinking that somehow weengage in a triumphalist
pretentiousness, as it's called,that all we have to do is
worship and praise God and thatGod is going to take a magic
wand and touch the earth andmake it better.
That we will continue in thisparticular form of theology.
And I think what people aresaying in the community is that
(39:32):
we are not anti-church, we arepro-church.
We are just not pro-church inthe sense that it does not
address what we're facing oncethe benediction is given and we
leave the church.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Right.
Hey, you are a product of thechurch.
You've been in the church allof your life and, through the
church and the grace of God, youare now positioned to be an
enabler of the church.
Thank you, sir.
What a powerful transition totake place in life.
(40:07):
Transition to take place inlife.
I'm really, really grateful thatyou so readily agreed to be a
part of Native Drums, and forthe next six weeks we as a
(40:32):
community will sit at your feetkarma relationship between you
and others like you as weattempt to expand forums like
(41:00):
this so that we empower theminds of our people, because if
we can get, their minds inproper perspective, getting
(41:20):
their souls in perspective willnot be a problem at all.
Not at all.
As we come to a close, I wantto ask you to give us an
overview of the six weeks.
Would you mind doing that, andthen we'll bring this
conversation to an end.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Actually, I've shared with you a couple of them in
responses to your questions.
It's a six-week overview oflectures that I've done before
in community halls and in classOne of them.
Of course, I begin with Africaand the pre-colonial African
(42:05):
context, which is very importantto give the listener an
opportunity to understand whatlife was like in Africa before
we were abducted and talk aboutwhy we were the fifth choice
actually for European plantersfor the slave trade.
There were four groups beforeAfricans that didn't, as we say,
(42:28):
make the cut, and so I lookforward to sharing that with you
as well.
I also will share a lecturetitled the Coming of the Gods,
where I be, where I lift up thetheological presuppositions of
the early theology of the whitechurch and then the black church
Once it was created inplantation life.
(42:48):
There are a couple ofsimilarities there Relative to
(43:20):
the valuation of humanity,relative to the way white people
and, of course, the VotingRights Act signed by President
Johnson and, of course, thecivil rights bill signed by
Johnson earlier that year, afterJohn F Kennedy unfortunately
was assassinated, and so I'mlooking forward to sharing those
segments.
And, of course, I like to endwith the repeal of Section 5 and
(43:43):
4 of the Voting Rights Act in2013, because that didn't have
to be cleared by the JusticeDepartment.
That made voting more difficultfor African-American people as
(44:09):
a means of trying to gain evenmore political power for their
white constituents, and so we'llbe looking at that as well.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Well, I'm overusing the word excited but, I, am
excited, excited, excited, and Ipray that our congregations and
the audience in general will beexcited about the opportunity
to sit at your feet.
(44:38):
Many of us are not able to bein the lecture halls at the
academy Right, but through thispodcast we're going to be able
to sit in the comforts of ourhomes and have an exposure I
(45:00):
suspect that most of us havenever had before.
So I say again and again youlistening, get prepared.
(45:22):
Say like the bishop in Texas getready, get ready, get ready
because we are really going to alevel of mental, intellectual
and spiritual empowerment.
I firmly believe that every oneof the sessions will make a
(45:52):
difference in your life, willimpact your family and your
community, so invite them tobecome engaged.
Let this series be a familyaffair.
Organize cell groups.
(46:14):
Organize cell groups.
Meet around the table and sharein discussions at the close of
these sessions and let's designtogether a strategy that will
(46:37):
elevate and empower us all.
Doctor, thank you so very muchfor being our guest and we look
forward to having you the next 6, 12, 18, 30 months.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Thank you very much, sir.
I'm looking forward to it andthank you for doing this podcast
Sure, yes, Welcome back, joinus again next Sunday and each
Sunday following at 6 o'clock.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Be a part of this dynamic lecture series by Dr
Singleton, to be followed by DrBobby Donaldson Jr.
Other noted scholars,politicians and leaders.
(47:36):
Tell others, help us build theaudience, build the minds of our
people, so that we can properlyrespond to these times.
I'm proud to be the pastor ofSavannah Grove Baptist Church
(47:56):
and your host for Native Drums.
God bless you and we'll see younext week.
Hello America, welcome to Native Drums.
For some time, this program hasbeen a vision of the pastor and
people of God known as SavannahGrove Baptist Church in
(00:21):
Effingham, south Carolina.
In part, it is a response toAmerica's decision to whitewash
the history of its Africanpeople.
It's a history we did notchoose to create.
(00:49):
It's a history forced upon us,one out of deceit.
Deception, death, mutvation,rape, disenfranchisement.
(01:18):
Nevertheless, it's a brilliant,a brilliant history, a history
(02:08):
that has survived the atrocitiesof the transatlantic, the slave
market, the plantation,sharecropping, gem-croism, jim
(02:42):
Crowism, separate and unequalschools, segregation, meanness,
hatred, discrimination, yes, andeven plagiarism.
It's a history, a brillianthistory, a proud history of a
(03:24):
people who could not read orwrite.
Yet they produced greatscholars and stellar individuals
, like George Washington, carverand Boogity Washington and
(03:45):
Benjamin E Mays and Mary McLeod,bethune.
And, yes, built wonderfulinstitutions of higher learning
like Bethune-Cookman andTuskegee Institute and Morehouse
(04:07):
College and Allen Universityand Bennett College and Morris
College, and scores of othersthat still serve our children.
It's a history of a people whogave to the world great minds
(04:36):
like unto WEB, du Bois andThurgood Marshall, a people who,
through the blood of theslaughtered, gave us Harriet and
(05:01):
Sojourner Truth Rosa Parks,medgar Evers, malcolm Jordan,
(05:33):
adam Clayton, powell, jr Harris,robert E McNair, charles R Drew
, and the list just goes on andon.
(06:17):
I do think that Mr Trump and hiscronies are embarrassed that a
people who had to, they masteredthe struggle and became major
(06:39):
figures in the broader historyof this country.
That's one reason.
There is another reason forthis program it represents the
African church struggling toreclaim its voice and role as
(07:11):
the ultimate liberator of thebody, soul and mind of the
people of God and all people.
God has chosen the Africanchurch to under shepherd his
(07:35):
flock, to aid, to abet and toadvocate, to lift the people of
God, to lead, to protect, toprovide, defend.
So we give to you, native drums, a voice to and enrich each one
(08:08):
of us.
The chains and shackles may beremoved from the body, the wrist
, the waist, the legs, but untilyour mind is free, you are
(08:32):
still enslaved.
Paul said in the book of Romansthe renewing of your mind.
Native drums is not a rhythm toexcite your emotions.
(08:58):
Native drums is an instrumentto illumine your minds.
I'm going to pause now for aninterview with Dr Henry H
Singleton III and then remarks.
(09:20):
Dr Singleton, it is really agreat delight to have you.
(09:51):
We are excited about Nativedrums.
We're equally excited that youare our very first guest and our
first lecturer.
Our first lecturer, welcome toNative Drums, and we anticipate
(10:13):
a long and wonderfulrelationship as we work together
to enlighten, inform andinspire the community.
Now I've known you for a long,long time and I know that you're
a PK.
Your dad was a great preacher,a dear friend of mine.
(10:35):
I know that you worked atBenedict College for a number of
years and now at the university, a scholar in your own right.
But tell our audience a bitmore about you, because you are
going to be a major figure inwhat we do in this programming.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Well, first of all, pastor, course of my integrity
to select me to lead thispodcast, which I hope will have
a major impact in the life ofthe black church going forward.
For we know that, of course,history is the door to our
future.
And so, if we don't know ourhistory, future, and so if we
(11:31):
don't know our history, ourfuture will not be planned well
and we'll be repeating ourselvescontinuously like people who do
, who don't know their history.
And so, in that sense, I amsomeone who is committed to
making sure our people know asmuch about their history as
possible, so that it willheighten their conscience and
bring them a more informedperspective relative to their
daily lives and relative totheir place in history, relative
(11:55):
to the life of this nationwherein black people have always
been the moral conscience ofthis country.
And we've been the moralconscience of this country
because we have occupied asubordinate and marginalized
status.
And so, in that sense, ourhistory is America's history and
(12:18):
America's history is ours.
And so I did grow up in thestate of South Carolina, born
and bred in Conway, southCarolina, near the coast.
I am a PK and of course that'sa preacher's kid for those who
don't know pastored by ReverendHH Singleton, cherry Hill
Baptist Church in Conway, southCarolina, where I grew up, and I
grew up in the shadows of thechurch, right behind it, in the
parsonage, and, of course, I wasraised in a home where we were
(12:41):
taught by our father that themost contributory life is a life
that contributes both to theedification of the body and to
the mind, and in doing so youenhance the spirit.
And for him, that was hismoniker, that was the philosophy
by which he lived, which wasevidenced in not only him being
(13:05):
a pastor, but he was also asocial activist, being a pastor,
but he was also a socialactivist, and he was also
someone who was deeply involvedin the community and in national
affairs, especially as itrelates to the advancement of
people of color and women.
And so out of that milieu Icome as a graduate of the
University of South Carolina,where I did a cognitive in
(13:27):
African-American history underthe late great Dean Willie
Hereford, who passed away just afew years ago, and I feel
privileged to be teaching in theAfrican-American Studies
Department at the University ofSouth Carolina.
Wow, wow, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
A tradition, a heritage, and God, we're just so
blessed to have you to agree tobe a part of what we are
attempting to do.
Congregation just recently thatone of our churches has just
(14:11):
converted its church schooldepartment into a history, black
history, an African Americanhistory forum and another church
and another dear friend hasmade a major shift in the
(14:36):
teachings at their church, justcompleted a study on
generational wealth and now theyare dedicating their midweek
Bible study to the book ofExodus, with an emphasis on
(14:57):
liberation and the history ofour people as it relates to the
story of Exodus us.
And then we've got our littlechurch, a rural church here in
Effingham, south Carolina, whichis just outside of Florence,
and we are beginning thispodcast and attempting to bring
(15:21):
some of our best minds to thetable to lead the entire
community in a study that isdesigned to empower us to move
to another level.
What is your opinion of thismovement, this shift, as the
(15:47):
church seems to be moving moretoward reclaiming its voice as a
liberate of our people?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, dr Canney, as we well know, that those
conversant with our historyrealize that racism mutates
itself in each and everygeneration.
We had a type of racism duringslavery that sanctioned slavery
as being ordained of God.
(16:18):
Post-slavery, we had asegregated racism that
segregated on the basis of raceand preached from the Bible that
the races should be separated.
Preached from the Bible that theraces should be separated.
And now we are living in apost-racial racist era where we
are being inundated by whitebrothers and sisters with
pretensions of post-racialism,where racial antagonisms and
(16:42):
white privilege still is verymuch alive and well in American
life.
And so, in light of that, I amextremely pleased that Black
churches have taken the lead inestablishing a liberating
presence in its institutionallife, which has been sorely
needed, especially when we takeinto consideration the removal
(17:06):
of DEI programs, the removal ofaffirmative action programs,
using critical race theory as awrecking ball to demolish
indigenous affirmations of blackhumanity, banning black books
in public schools and, of course, banning black authors as well,
seemingly brazenly and withlittle or no shame that the
(17:27):
black church is stepping up withthese measures, in my judgment,
to be what it is needed to bein each generation to maximize
its value in the life of theblack community and subsequently
in the life of the nation, tothink where we would be as a
(17:51):
nation, as a society, evenrelative to the level and the
depth of our conscience, had itnot been for the black church,
and so, in this sense, I amextremely excited about the
black church's participation inthis process that will heighten
the conscience of our people and, even happier, to be a part of
that process.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Great, great, great.
As you know, we have tagged ourpodcast Native Drums.
To me, it's a major salute toour forebears.
A major salute to our forebears.
(18:32):
Unfortunately, a number of usassumed that drums in our
culture was about rhythm, wasabout dance, about feelings and
emotions.
But the drums really had a farmore technical role in the
(19:01):
conversation between tribes andbetween our people, from
plantation to plantation.
Is there anything you want tosay to us about the role of
drums in the life of our people?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, because of the particulars of slavery, and in
particular, a slave code passedin our illustrious state of
South Carolina in 1712maintained that slaves could not
gather in numbers larger thanfives.
And the reason why this slavecode was enacted by the South
Carolina state legislature is tominimize the chances of slaves
(19:45):
organizing for insurrection, thechances of slaves organizing
for insurrection.
And so, since we couldn't meetin groups larger than five, we
then used the drum tocommunicate to those on the
plantation about insurrections,the time of those insurrections,
the place of thoseinsurrections and the date of
those insurrections.
And so, in that sense, eventhough they thought they were
(20:08):
preventing us from engaging ininsurrection by not allowing us
to gather in groups larger thanfive, in essence they are
compelling us to fall back on anold custom from Africa itself
that survived the plantation andwas not completely obliterated
by the ravages of whitesupremacy.
And those native drums servedas a medium of communication
(20:33):
during slavery and as a basisfor organizing ourselves for
insurrection against slavery andto, of course, run away from
the plantation with the intentto topple the institution
ultimately.
And so I'm glad that this wasselected as the name of the
podcast, because it represents anew and indigenous way of
(20:55):
communicating as a people inwhich we begin to renew our
interests, not only in Africa,but renew our interests also in
our blackness, relative to itsliberating and transformative
dimension.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, it's amazing no , no Mars code.
No, no telegram, no telephone,no television.
But our people were geniusenough to create their own
system of communications.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
And of course as you have just suggested.
A part of the evil mind ofoppression was this whole matter
of keeping our people divided,separated, polarized, not only
(22:00):
polarization among races, butthen polarization among
ourselves Absolutely.
Which brings me to anotherpoint.
I think it was Ronald Reagan,when he was president, said to
(22:25):
African Americans you don't needa leader.
You know, unfortunately, Ithink, a number of our people
bought into that ridiculousideology.
It was a false philosophy andmany have turned away from the
(22:48):
church, turned away fromorganizations committed to
liberation, turned away evenfrom social entities, and have
become more moved by this spiritof isolation and individualism
(23:14):
which, in my opinion, criticallyundermines the movement.
Yes, what is there anythingyou'd like to say to that issue?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, part of part of part of white control over
black bodies historically hashad to do principally with
controlling mediums of masscommunication, and so, in light
of that, african-americans inmany instances have tended to
take their cue as to how toengage and live American life
(23:47):
from the white media and fromwhite politicians and leaders,
while at the same time tellingus that we don't need leaders
and that's to remove the blackleader who would bring about a
contrary or differentmethodology that was rooted more
in unity and not more inindividual accomplishment, which
has been the message sent to usby the white media and white
(24:08):
political leaders and, of course, ronald Reagan, as you
mentioned, saying we don't needa leader.
The same thing, unfortunately,has happened as it relates to
the life of the church, and fartoo many black people have taken
their cue from whiteevangelical leaders who preach a
personalistic theology, whopreach primarily an otherworldly
theology and who preachprimarily in otherworldly
(24:29):
theology and who preach achurchy theology in which
members should only be concernedabout the condition of the
building of the church andgiving to the church and not be
concerned about the life of thecommunity beyond the church.
This was done with directintentionality and it was done
primarily to control thethinking of black people.
(24:51):
My father used to say all thetime that Lerone Bennett, the
editor at Jet Magazine, wouldalways say he who controls
images controls minds, and hewho controls minds has little or
no fair bodies.
And so all of it was done forthe purpose of maintaining
social control of black peopleexploiting their labor so that
(25:12):
they could benefit economicallyfrom it.
And they have.
It's been a transgenerationaljourney of wealth increase,
namely because you can increaseyour wealth because you didn't
have to pay your employees.
We are still calling forreparations as black people, for
for not being compensated likewe should have during the slave
trade, where we receive nothingfor our labor.
(25:34):
And so you know, as JesseJackson said, you almost have to
be a genius to figure out howto fail at a business when you
don't have to pay your employees.
I mean, if you think about it,you know every, every cent you
make is your profit.
You don't have to pay theemployees, you don't have to pay
health insurance, dentalinsurance, workman's comp, you
don't have to pay anything.
And so that wealth accumulatedfor our white brothers and
(25:57):
sisters over several generations.
We even refer to it now,particularly in many southern
cities, when we ride through andsee these houses as you ride
into these cities, these bigwhite houses, and we say that's
old money.
And it really is old money.
And so in that sense, thepurpose has been to generate
untold numbers of economicwealth and prosperity, which has
(26:20):
happened off the backs of blacklabor, which has been free in
nature, and so the mediums ofmass communication and, of
course, a virulent theology thatis now morphed into this
prosperity ministries that wesee today, that really allow
white people to prosper,individuals not black people to
prosper at all, except for a few.
Here and there haveunfortunately been the cues by
(26:42):
which black people have imbibedwhat is considered decent and,
of course, far-reaching living.
And of course that philosophyof living in national life has
to be challenged by us.
It has always been challengedby us, because it not only does
not take into account thetransformation of the masses of
people who work two, three, fourjobs to make ends meet, and yet
(27:05):
the salaries of those two,three, four jobs are are such a
paucity of an amount that theycan't eke out a comfortable
living.
And so our struggle has alwaysbeen not how we keep the masses
content with their situation,but how we can transform the
condition of the masses so thatthe richest country in the world
(27:26):
can extend that wealth to thepeople who really built this
country and who continue to bethe engine that makes America go
.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Exactly.
I say all the time and I'mcertainly no scholar as you I
say all of the time that fromthe very beginning the wealth of
this country has been producedby our people, absolutely.
They simply did not have thegenius nor the muscle to create
(28:04):
the infrastructure nor thewealth of this country.
They failed miserably in theearly days of development.
They tried to engage theAmerican natives and that failed
.
And prosperity only began toturn the corner when our people
(28:31):
came to America and on theirsweat and blood built the wealth
of this country.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And in fact, that's why we were selected.
Yes, west Africans wereselected, not because of the
narrative that went out inhistory that we were living in a
dark continent, running aroundwith bones in our nose and
swinging from vines, with nocivilization, but because of the
opposite we were selected forenslavement by European planters
(29:01):
because we did have developedsocieties, that we were skilled
artisans in what was needed.
They were already ahead of thecurve in terms of economic
development, global economicdevelopment, and that's why West
Africans were selected.
They were selected because oftheir ability to be able to till
soil and to be able to do itwith a know-how that can create
(29:23):
a maximum profit for Europeanplanters.
And when you combine that withthe fact that West Africans were
not immune, or that they wereimmune rather, to European
diseases, particularly coldinfluenza, right that didn't.
That didn't bode well for us,but it certainly bode well for
them, because we're someone whodoesn't get sick as much as
(29:44):
Europeans do and we could worklonger hours because of it.
Like I said, it's a greatpersonality trait to have for
people, but it didn't help us interms of being selected for the
slave trade itself.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
What would you say to that young man, that young
woman in our culture that sensesfrustration because they can't
(30:20):
seem to get a foundation, afooting, and are not in the
broader sense of succeeding inlife?
What can you say to them aboutwho we are and about our history
(30:42):
that might inspire them?
To look at life differently andfrom a point of genius and
strength.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I think the best thing to do as black people is
if you live your life and I toolabored under this false
assumption for years earlier inmy life that your goal is to get
(31:16):
solid footing, as you put itthe reality is is that we've
never really had solid footingas a people.
We have always had to channelour frustration into a higher
way of being in the world.
We had to channel ourfrustration into fight, because
(31:36):
if we didn't channel ourfrustration into fight we would
become an extinct people.
So my advice would be, as muchas you can, become uncomfortable
, or remain uncomfortable withthe fact that you don't have
solid footing, that successultimately in life must not be
(32:00):
measured by monetary gain.
It must be measured bycontribution to the onward march
of human civilization, which isone of the things my father
taught me years ago march ofhuman civilization, which is one
of the things my father taughtme years ago.
And so once you begin to lookbecause even personally, things
have happened in my life thatwere tremendous setbacks Things
continue to happen in my lifethat are continued setbacks, and
(32:21):
I think one of the universalsof living is that none of us are
really happy personally withwhere we are in life, that we
are to some degree content, butpart of the existential
restlessness of living in thisworld is being able to be a
contributory citizen, not onlyto nation but to world as well,
(32:44):
even as you live in the midst ofthose personal foibles and the
personal perfection you'reseeking continues to remain an
elusive quest.
That, as you are, that as youare seeking that perfection and
contentment in life as you havedefined it, that there's also a
larger call for you to be acontributory member to human
(33:05):
civilization.
Because, at the end of the day,your deeds will be judged not on
how much material wealth youhoarded up.
It won't be judged on how bigyour house was.
It won't be judged on how manyluxury cars you bought or how
many places in the world youwent on these grand vacations.
It would be ultimately measuredby the impact you have had on
(33:27):
the lives of other people.
Measured by the impact you havehad on the lives of other
people.
And so, until that comes to theforefront of your being, in
terms of why you're on thisearth, as Mark Twain said, the
two most important days in yourlife are the day you were born
and the day you find out why youwere born.
And so when you discover yourmeaning and your purpose in life
(33:49):
and seek that meaning andpurpose and come to find it,
you'll discover that all theother things that were giving
you frustration before just justbegin to pale in terms of
significance relative to what'sreally important in life.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Hey, let's, let's push the issue, and I'm not
going to hold you much longer.
I just appreciate yourconversation and your presence
with us, but let's push theissue a bit further, because I
am sensing an ever increasingtension between the church and
(34:37):
the community.
Unfortunately, there are forcesthat are disengaged in church,
where the strength of ourcommunity lies, to mobilize in
(35:11):
such a way not to push forwardbut to undermine what the church
is doing, if there is going tobe two entities, the two should
at least be on the same course,headed in the same direction.
(35:32):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Well, in many ways, this could be an opportunity for
the church, namely because, inmany ways, religion does not
compel us to listen.
It compels us to absorb andinternalize a theological
(36:00):
perspective and impose it onother people.
And what we have internalizedin the black church in its
history in fact, it's one of mysegments on the podcast
internalized in the black churchin its history In fact, it's
one of my segments on thepodcast is that, as I said
earlier, we have internalized ahighly evangelical understanding
of how Christian faith shouldbe expressed, and we forget
(36:22):
sometimes, in light of that,that in the early church,
pastors understood and churchleaders understood that a
theological intelligentsia hadto be created so that the church
would never stray religion.
Theologians to critique thechurch so that the church does
not lose sight of its mission toliberate, and the tension was
(37:00):
created when the church becamemore of a middle and upper class
institution and it was occupiedby members who had obtained
their wealth through curry infavor with the system, and so
they did not want a church inwhich its leadership criticized
(37:21):
the system by which they werebenefiting.
So there's your tension, and sowe're at a crossroads now at a
black community, though, and sowe're at a crossroads now, at a
black community, though, where Ithink that there are voices,
because some of the voices thatyou mentioned in the community
actually grew up in the churchyes, they grew up in the church
and have strayed from the church, namely because many churches
(37:43):
have arrogantly continued topromote a neo-evangelical
theology that is primarilyconcerned with otherworldliness,
and I think those voices aresaying we want to hear in our
songs, sermons and prayersthings that speak to our
contemporary condition, thatspeak to our contemporary
(38:05):
oppression, that speak tocontemporary racism, sexism,
misogyny, poverty, and thatwe're not hearing those messages
come across in the church, andI think it's an opportunity for
the church to listen and anopportunity for the church to
reinvent itself in the way ofliberation, to be in tune with
(38:28):
the Exodus narrative, asBrooklyn is doing, to do a
podcast on black history, to beunashamedly indigenous and to
say we are a black church and weare in the business of trying
to create a liberated existencefor our people, a tradition of
which started from slaveryitself.
(38:48):
And I think if, as we say in theBaptist church, we have a
period of rededication towardthe end of the service, there is
the call now for churches,black churches of all
denominations, to rededicateitself to prophetic ministries
that address systems ofinjustice and not continue in a
(39:10):
path of thinking that somehow weengage in a triumphalist
pretentiousness, as it's called,that all we have to do is
worship and praise God and thatGod is going to take a magic
wand and touch the earth andmake it better.
That we will continue in thisparticular form of theology.
And I think what people aresaying in the community is that
(39:32):
we are not anti-church, we arepro-church.
We are just not pro-church inthe sense that it does not
address what we're facing oncethe benediction is given and we
leave the church.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Right.
Hey, you are a product of thechurch.
You've been in the church allof your life and, through the
church and the grace of God, youare now positioned to be an
enabler of the church.
Thank you, sir.
What a powerful transition totake place in life.
(40:07):
Transition to take place inlife.
I'm really, really grateful thatyou so readily agreed to be a
part of Native Drums, and forthe next six weeks we as a
(40:32):
community will sit at your feetkarma relationship between you
and others like you as weattempt to expand forums like
(41:00):
this so that we empower theminds of our people, because if
we can get, their minds inproper perspective, getting
(41:20):
their souls in perspective willnot be a problem at all.
Not at all.
As we come to a close, I wantto ask you to give us an
overview of the six weeks.
Would you mind doing that, andthen we'll bring this
conversation to an end.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Actually, I've shared with you a couple of them in
responses to your questions.
It's a six-week overview oflectures that I've done before
in community halls and in classOne of them.
Of course, I begin with Africaand the pre-colonial African
(42:05):
context, which is very importantto give the listener an
opportunity to understand whatlife was like in Africa before
we were abducted and talk aboutwhy we were the fifth choice
actually for European plantersfor the slave trade.
There were four groups beforeAfricans that didn't, as we say,
(42:28):
make the cut, and so I lookforward to sharing that with you
as well.
I also will share a lecturetitled the Coming of the Gods,
where I be, where I lift up thetheological presuppositions of
the early theology of the whitechurch and then the black church
Once it was created inplantation life.
(42:48):
There are a couple ofsimilarities there Relative to
(43:20):
the valuation of humanity,relative to the way white people
and, of course, the VotingRights Act signed by President
Johnson and, of course, thecivil rights bill signed by
Johnson earlier that year, afterJohn F Kennedy unfortunately
was assassinated, and so I'mlooking forward to sharing those
segments.
And, of course, I like to endwith the repeal of Section 5 and
(43:43):
4 of the Voting Rights Act in2013, because that didn't have
to be cleared by the JusticeDepartment.
That made voting more difficultfor African-American people as
(44:09):
a means of trying to gain evenmore political power for their
white constituents, and so we'llbe looking at that as well.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Well, I'm overusing the word excited but, I, am
excited, excited, excited, and Ipray that our congregations and
the audience in general will beexcited about the opportunity
to sit at your feet.
(44:38):
Many of us are not able to bein the lecture halls at the
academy Right, but through thispodcast we're going to be able
to sit in the comforts of ourhomes and have an exposure I
(45:00):
suspect that most of us havenever had before.
So I say again and again youlistening, get prepared.
(45:22):
Say like the bishop in Texas getready, get ready, get ready
because we are really going to alevel of mental, intellectual
and spiritual empowerment.
I firmly believe that every oneof the sessions will make a
(45:52):
difference in your life, willimpact your family and your
community, so invite them tobecome engaged.
Let this series be a familyaffair.
Organize cell groups.
(46:14):
Organize cell groups.
Meet around the table and sharein discussions at the close of
these sessions and let's designtogether a strategy that will
(46:37):
elevate and empower us all.
Doctor, thank you so very muchfor being our guest and we look
forward to having you the next 6, 12, 18, 30 months.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Thank you very much, sir.
I'm looking forward to it andthank you for doing this podcast
Sure, yes, Welcome back, joinus again next Sunday and each
Sunday following at 6 o'clock.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Be a part of this dynamic lecture series by Dr
Singleton, to be followed by DrBobby Donaldson Jr.
Other noted scholars,politicians and leaders.
(47:36):
Tell others, help us build theaudience, build the minds of our
people, so that we can properlyrespond to these times.
I'm proud to be the pastor ofSavannah Grove Baptist Church
(47:56):
and your host for Native Drums.
God bless you and we'll see younext week.
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