March 31, 2025 • 29 mins
Sit back and grab a coffee as you get to know hosts Daniel Emison and TJ Virden in this premiere episode of the Natural Obsession Podcast. Listen as they share some of the formative outdoor experiences that shaped their lifelong passions for nature. Through stories that range from heartwarming to hilarious, discover how their appreciation for being outside and for conservation deepened over time. As they chat, they'll explore nature's powerful ability to provide mental clarity and peace in our increasingly hectic world. Both share concerns about declining wildlife populations and habitats, hoping this podcast might play a small role in reversing that trajectory by connecting people and sharing knowledge through compelling outdoor stories.
Whether you're an avid outdoor person, one who is rediscovering nature's pull, or if you’re interested in it for the first time, we hope you'll join us for conversations with diverse guests–from farmers to conservation specialists to enthusiasts of obscure outdoor activities–as we explore our natural obsessions and work to preserve wild spaces for future generations. Subscribe now and be part of our growing community of people who love the outdoors and want to see it flourish.
🔗 A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold
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What is the Natural Obsession Podcast all about?
Growing up, we all had those moments in nature that stuck with us—whether it was a quiet walk in the woods or a grand adventure. On Natural Obsession, it’s our desire to bring those moments to life. As we talk to people from all walks of life we will learn how they fell in love with the outdoors, the different ways they enjoy it today, and explore how we can work together to ensure these spaces are around for years to come. It’s all about sharing memories from the outdoors and ensuring future generations can make their own.
To find out more about Natural Obsession and hosts, Daniel Emison and TJ Virden, visit our website at https://www.natob.co/.
If you have questions about episodes or have guest recommendations please email us at info@natob.co.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniel (00:22):
On Natural Obsession.
We're building a community ofpeople who love the outdoors and
want to see it flourish.
Through honest conversationswith adventurers,
conservationists and otherinteresting individuals, we
explore what makes our naturalspaces so special and how we can
all work together to preservethem.
It's about learning from thepast, appreciating the present
and protecting the future, onestory at a time.
TJ (00:51):
Hi, this is TJ Virden,
this is Daniel Emison
and this is the Natural Obsession.
Podcast.
Daniel (01:07):
All right, here we go.
First episode.
TJ (01:09):
You excited?
Daniel (01:10):
Oh yeah
TJ (01:10):
Me too.
How do you want to start thisthing?
Daniel (01:12):
I guess start off by introducing yourself, and then
I'll do me and get in somequestions about ourselves.
TJ (01:17):
Awesome.
So I'm TJ, Got a wife, Brianna,five kids they're a lot from
Morrilton, Arkansas originally.
Haven't moved away from therevery far and I love the outdoors
.
Daniel (01:30):
Sounds good.
I'm Daniel.
I have a wife, three kids,Jessica and my three girls.
I grew up in Jacksonville untilI was about eight or nine,
moved to Cleveland, Arkansas.
Since then, I've been anoutdoor person, love the
outdoors and that's what we'reinto our podcast on
TJ (01:48):
yes, sir do you want to start out being asked the
questions or do you want to dothe asking?
Daniel (01:53):
I'll do the asking
TJ (01:55):
no pressure
Daniel (01:56):
all right.
So we got a few questions here.
Go down kind of go through themand see what we got.
So what's your earliest memoryof being in nature and how did
it shape your appreciation forthe outdoors?
TJ (02:10):
One of my earliest memories of being in nature and they're
kind of hard to separate at thatage is of going hunting with
Dad and my brother.
He took us down this old dirtroad.
I can still lead you theretoday and show you exactly where
we parked and stuff.
I remember his old truck,throwing my little youth bow in
the back of it on the way downthere and thought I was going to
(02:31):
get to carry it with me.
Got out there and dad haddifferent plans.
He just wanted us to go sitwith him and watch him hunt,
which was cool, and so mybrother and I went out.
He set us at a tree, probably30-40 yards away from where he
was at, and we proceeded towatch squirrels play in the
leaves you know, do kid thingsinstead of being serious about
(02:54):
hunting, which was to dad'sdismay.
He was pretty serious about thatkind of stuff.
Yeah, so he was wanting to killdeer.
We were wanting to play, youknow, just like kids, yeah.
Yeah, so he was wanting to killdeer.
We were wanting to play, youknow, just like kids Anyway.
So we ended up seeing somesquirrels, saw a couple does run
by.
I can still vividly rememberone particular doe running by,
(03:14):
probably one that we spooked,looking back, you know.
But dad ended up shooting at abuck in front of us and from our
angle we could see a stump infront of where he was shooting.
From his angle he couldn't seethe stump and so we saw the
arrow clearly hit the stump,which aggravated Ed pretty good.
But anyway, he missed that deerand we were probably in trouble
(03:39):
a little bit just for beingrowdy and all the things, Doing
the kid things.
But yeah, that was one of myfirst memories of being in the
outdoors.
I don't know how old I was, Iwould say probably four or five,
you know okay yeah, so prettyyoung and um, I think you know
what that did for me was justgave me an appreciation for
(03:59):
being with people in theoutdoors.
You know, I always enjoyedbeing with my brother, my mom,
my dad, grandparents, whoever Iwas with in the outdoors, and so
I think you know that was thetakeaway.
I was enjoying that and alsojust watching nature.
I still can sit and watchsquirrels play today and be just
as happy, you know, as if I wasshooting a big buck or anything
like that.
Daniel (04:18):
So you know, if you're hunting deer, you're gonna see
lots of squirrels, so yeah,naturally okay.
Was there a specific moment orexperience that made you realize
the outdoors was somethingyou're passionate about?
TJ (04:31):
yeah, I don't know like one that made me know that I was
passionate about it.
I think there was a point intime when I figured out that I
had a love for the outdoors.
You know I I always enjoyedgoing to camp and ozark national
forest and and sitting aroundthe fire and riding
four-wheelers and that kind ofstuff.
I enjoyed reading books aboutanimals and watching
(04:54):
documentaries about Jane Goodalland conservation and that kind
of stuff, even from a reallyearly age.
But I think I didn't figure outthat I had a passion for it
until I was in my teen years.
But I think I didn't figure outthat I had a passion for it
until I was in my teen years andat that point in time I started
going out and hunting a lot onmy own and I would walk about a
mile in and I would just sitthere all day and watch whatever
(05:15):
came by, and so I think thatyou know, being out there all
day and just being able to sitthere, with or without seeing
deer, is when I figured out thatI had a passion for it.
you know watching the sunsets,watching animals, and just you
know the different things
Daniel (05:29):
yeah, not even just hunting, just being out there,
TJ (05:31):
yeah yeah, hunting's cool, but just being outside is is the
main thing
Daniel (05:36):
okay, if you could describe your connection to
nature in one word, what wouldit be?
TJ (05:42):
I think wonder would probably be the word that comes
to mind, like that.
Yeah, just because I feel likeit doesn't matter how many times
you go out there or where yougo, there's always something new
to observe and see.
And so wonder, or all I thinkwould be if I had to describe it
in a single word Okay, yeah.
Daniel (06:01):
We kind of talked about this the other day.
What is a memorable adventureor outdoor experience you had,
and what did it teach you aboutyourself?
TJ (06:09):
So this one time, when I guess I was I think I was
already married at this point intime so outdoor adventures had
became a little less often, butevery once in a while, you know,
I was still getting out anddoing adventures with friends.
So my brother a friend of mineand myself went out to the
Washington National Forest andhad planned on hammock camping
(06:33):
just for a day or two, you know,not taking anything except for
a little bit of food and someguns, planning on killing.
You know what we were going toeat and that kind of thing.
So we got out there camp.
Of course you know how it iswhen you go intending on killing
something, you kill nothing.
And so we had zero food otherthan the granola bars and stuff,
or at least that's what theythought at the moment.
(06:54):
And so we did the first nightby this creek, and that was cool
.
It was pretty cold that night.
The next day it kind of warmedup and so we decided to hike to
the top of Fork Mountain and tryto spend the night there.
Daniel (07:08):
Yeah, I've been there.
TJ (07:10):
Yeah, if you've been on top, you know that there's not much
on top of Fork Mountain.
It's just pretty much, you know, a spot as big as your living
room or so.
And so we climbed up throughthis rock slide with our guns on
our back and our big packs andthen we had, like, our hammocks
and that sort of thing as well,sleeping bags Got to the top and
figured out there was basicallyno trees to tie hammocks to.
(07:32):
There are trees up there, butthey're stunted, which should be
the first clue into this story.
But you know, we didn't thinkanything about it, we're just
going to spend the night upthere.
And so we proceeded to tie upour hammocks on whatever trees
we could find, had to tie offback to some rocks with the
trees, because they were sosmall in some places.
I set up a grill and pulled outsome steaks, because that's who
(07:55):
I am when I go camping.
Daniel (07:55):
You weren't, you weren't thinking you were going to kill
anything exactly
TJ (07:58):
I prepared.
You know I like to eat well,and so my brother and Calvin had
their granola bars, and youknow how that goes when you take
steak people can't just eat thegranola bar again, they share
the steak.
And so we shared some bigsteaks up there on top and it
was pretty calm for that wholeperiod while we were cooking.
That was up till about dusksometime, right around you know
(08:21):
dusk, or maybe even like rightafter sunset, the wind began to
pick up and proceeded to blow, Iwould say at hurricane forces.
I don't think I'm exaggeratingthere.
I wish I had like a wind speedmonitor up there that night.
But it blew so hard that itblew us around in our hammocks,
blew the tarp off of me that Ihad I had one of those survival
(08:43):
tarps just to wrap up in kind ofstay a little bit more and it
blew the outlets out of thosewell it was so loud up there
that at one point we shot apistol off and you couldn't hear
for the wind blowing, and so itwas pretty, pretty fierce.
So we made it all the waythrough the night with a little
sleep.
I think they eventually tied mytarp around me just to keep it
on the hammock.
(09:03):
You know, no, underquilt wasn'tprepared for that and we made
it through the night and got upthe next morning hiked down.
But I think what that taught mewas that, you know, those tough
times in the outdoors producegood memories and some of the
best memories, I think yeah, Iagree.
Daniel (09:22):
Yeah you, you got to have your underquilt for the
hammock.
Even if it's only like 50, 60degrees that wind will suck your
heat out.
TJ (09:30):
Well, I probably needed a few more podcasts under my belt
to learn from people who'veactually done that before.
I could have helped you withthat, yeah.
Daniel (09:36):
I learned from just being so smart.
I didn't ever go without one.
TJ (09:40):
Oh yeah, sure,
is there a person in your lifewho's influenced your love for
the outdoors or taught you torespect it?
You know I was lucky to be from a family who pretty much
all respected the outdoors.
I can remember once or twice Ihope Dad's not listening but him
(10:02):
throwing a piece of trash outthe window or something like
that, you know.
But for the most part you knoweverybody was really good about
respecting the outdoors.
They all taught us to clean upafter ourselves.
Grandpa was really big aboutwhat we burned in the fire.
You know not leaving glass oraluminum in a fire pit.
You know when we were in thenational forest and different
things like that, always told topick up.
You know stuff if we saw ithere and there.
(10:24):
You know mom was always a cleanfreak and so she was definitely
not going to let us leaveanything behind when we were
outside.
Daniel (10:32):
I think back in that time, when we're about the same
age, you know, littering was abig thing that they went after,
so I think that was oneverybody's mind at that point
too.
TJ (10:42):
Yeah, I think it was definitely something that they
all thought about.
I can't remember yeah, I can'tremember anybody really doing
anything that I could, besidesdad, maybe throwing a piece of
trash out the window going downthe road.
Daniel (10:56):
You know that was a counter to that.
Okay, how have your views onnature and conservation evolved
over time?
TJ (11:03):
When I was a kid, you know, obviously, like I said, I liked
watching the Jane Goodalldocumentaries where she was
living with the apes, and youknow I also love the San Diego
zoo um documentary.
So I had a love forconservation I would say from an
early age.
From reading the books anddifferent things that I did, I
knew about extinct animals andendangered species and all that
kind of stuff, um, but I don'tthink it really started to hit
(11:28):
home until I got older, I wouldsay in my thirties maybe, even
when I acquired my own land forthe first time that I really
started to think about andhaving kids too.
You know you have kids.
I think it kind of changes yourperspective on how long things
are going to be around and whatcondition they're going to be in
.
And you know, and as you ageand so it wasn't until then, I
think that you know, I startedto have a real desire to be
(11:51):
conservative in my approach tothe outdoors.
Daniel (11:53):
And understanding that it's important.
You know as a kid, you know youlike the things outside.
TJ (11:57):
Yeah, when I had to be there , yeah for sure, and when I had
the land, you know, once I hadit, I met with Quail Forever and
Arkansas, game of Fish andother people like that who
enlightened me to the conditionof my land and other land
surrounding me.
And so once, once they told mesome things you know, once your
eyes are opened, it's hard to goback.
So I would say that those,that's really the time in my
life when, when that started toblossom.
Daniel (12:19):
Okay, what are just a couple of things they told you
that that opened your eyes tothat, I guess.
TJ (12:25):
Yeah, and just so, just like I think, even the condition of
our national forest.
You know, we think that ournational forests are natural and
that's not necessarily the case.
When the Louisiana Purchasehappened there was a survey
where they went through andmarked about every mile what the
condition of the land was in,and some in a journal, and so
(12:45):
back then we didn't have, youknow, thick overgrown forest in
the Ozarks.
It was sparsely populated, youknow, with with oaks and
Savannah prairie, that sort ofthing.
Daniel (12:58):
Yeah Way, different than it looks now.
TJ (13:00):
Yeah, way different than it looks now, and so I would have
never known that sort of thingif I hadn't talked to those
kinds of people with thatexpertise, and so, yeah, Okay,
yeah, that's something I didn'tknow either.
Daniel (13:10):
Yeah, I thought the Ozarks.
I grew up around them.
I thought they were natural.
TJ (13:13):
Yeah, I think I did too.
Daniel (13:16):
All right, so what's your favorite outdoor activity
and what's it makes it specialto you?
TJ (13:21):
Yeah.
So I would still have to saythat hunting is my favorite
outdoor activity and I thinkit's just because it was time
spent with family.
That's what we did together,whether it was at deer camp in
the ozarks or whether it was,you know, right by the house.
If dad and I, or grandpa and I,were spending time together, it
was usually usually either likesome kind of work or hunting,
(13:43):
and so it's just special to mebecause of that.
But, that being said, ifhunting went away today, you
know they took away guns andbows and and all the things I
could still enjoy being out andsitting in a tree, because it
was really the nature that weconnected in more than actual,
you know doing anything killingof an animal or anything like
that.
Daniel (14:03):
So what do you think?
Sharing stories about theoutdoors is important today.
TJ (14:08):
Well, you know, some people aren't as blessed as I've been
to have a family who loves theoutdoors, and so I think sharing
that love is good, just becauseI think it's a space for me to
be able to get out and relax andenjoy nature without the
business of life.
Um, you know we've talked aboutmental health and how you know,
busyness and that sort of thingleads to stress, and I think
(14:32):
nature is the opposite of that,at least for me.
Daniel (14:34):
Yeah.
TJ (14:35):
To be out and be in the quiet you know, and so hearing
the stories of other people whohave enjoyed time outdoors made
memories, have stories to me.
You know it's good.
It's a way too for us toconnect to other people.
I think you know I can connectto somebody I've never met
through stories.
Daniel (14:53):
Yeah, and so, and y'all grew closer, probably on the top
of that mountain when you'refighting the wind.
TJ (14:59):
For sure.
Daniel (15:02):
What do you hope our listeners will take away from
hearing our stories and those ofthe guests that we bring on?
TJ (15:07):
Yeah, so I mean, I hope that we all learn from this you know
, I hope that we learn toappreciate the outdoors more.
I hope that we learn to be moreconservationally minded, to
think outside the box and by theways that we spend time in the
outdoors.
You know I like to hunt, kayakfish, but I'm not really much of
(15:30):
a biker.
Daniel (15:31):
Yeah.
TJ (15:31):
Spelunker.
Daniel (15:33):
Not a spelunker.
Bird watcher sometimes maybe,but you know um.
I look forward to hearing otherpeople's stories and the way
they connect and, you know, hopethat that inspires other people
to find new ways to get out andto take care and steward to the
places that we have together.
Okay, so the next question I guess I kind of the
same like what inspired you tostart natural obsession, and
(15:54):
then, what impact do you thinkit'll have?
TJ (15:56):
Age as you get older.
You know I'm approaching 40.
And so I think the age has leftme wanting to leave some kind
of legacy.
I have a career and that sortof thing, but there's really not
a legacy that I feel like I'mleaving in.
That, yeah, and so if I canteach people to love the
outdoors and enjoy it like Ihave even my own family, my kids
(16:19):
if they could come away with alove for the outdoors like I've
had and have those experiences,those memories there and learn
to be stewards of it, toconserve it, make sure it's
around for generations to come,I think that's really what I
hope to gain by doing thepodcast.
Daniel (16:37):
If you could go back in time and experience the natural
world as it was in any era, whenand where would you go?
TJ (16:44):
I think that I would go back to pre-Louisiana Purchase and I
think I would want to be in theWest.
To me, I've always wanted, I'vehad a fascination with
migrating animals, and so to seethe buffalo on the plains and
actually moving the numbers andthe health of the herds like
they were at that point in time,I think would be a really cool
(17:06):
time place to be and toexperience.
Time place to be and toexperience.
Obviously, that's somethingthat you can't really experience
these days unless you go tosomewhere like Africa See
wildebeest.
Daniel (17:19):
Big herds.
How do you think people'srelationship with nature will
change over the next 50 years,and what role do you want this
podcast to play in that?
TJ (17:29):
Yeah, so I think I have a fear of there being a decline in
spaces that we can enter innature, the health of it, the
health of deer numbers, turkeynumbers, quail you know we've
already seen decline in thingslike quail and turkey over the
past however many years.
Yeah, and so I think thatthere's a real concern about the
(17:52):
health of things around us andthe places that we spend time,
the habitat that all thesespecies are in.
And what was the second part ofthat?
Daniel (17:56):
What do you hope this podcast does for that?
TJ (17:59):
I would love for it to somehow bring enough awareness
in people that we change that,that it's no longer going
towards that trajectory.
Daniel (18:07):
Yeah.
TJ (18:07):
I think it's a big vision.
I don't know if we will havethat effect, but certainly where
we're aiming, shooting for thestars.
Daniel (18:13):
Yeah, I like that.
What's one quirky or unexpectedhabit you have when you're out
in nature, besides bringingsteaks to Fork Mountain?
TJ (18:21):
Yeah, definitely known for that one.
I think I told you this theother day.
I have a tendency, when I'moutdoors, to focus on death, and
I don't mean for that to soundmorbid, but it just reminds me
of the brevity of life.
When I'm out in nature watchingthings, life passes by pretty
quick, but when you're outsideit seems to stand still for a
little while.
And you know, I can remembersitting by a tree when I was
four years old.
(18:42):
Now I'm close to 40.
And so, just thinking about howquick it passes, if this is the
halfway point, then I don'thave a whole lot left.
Like I say, I don't mean tosound morbid, but I just like to
think about how short life is,and it reminds me to stay on
task and to do better and thosesort of things.
Also, though, I'm a Lord of theRings fan, and so every once in
(19:02):
a while I might picture like atree, ant or something out in
the woods, or I might picturelike a tree, ant or something
out in the woods or, you know,wonder if Bigfoot Little hobbits
riding around on them.
Yeah, or wonder if Bigfoot isreal.
You know, I think that's aboutas quirky as I get.
Daniel (19:13):
Okay.
Well, that's all the questionsI have for you, unless you can
think of something you just wantto add in there.
TJ (19:19):
No, I think that's good.
I think I'd rather ask youquestions for a little while, if
you're down for that.
Daniel (19:23):
I'm down for it.
TJ (19:25):
All right, what is your first memory of being outside?
Daniel (19:29):
So I grew up in Jacksonville, actually Gravel
Ridge.
It was backed up to the BayouMeto.
Most of my memories from realearly are from out in the Bayou
Meto, just exploring buildingforts with my brothers hunting
around, making blow darts out ofthe little reeds out there.
That's kind of where I remembermostly.
(19:51):
But we had all kinds of little.
You know, there was old washingmachines out there.
You could dig it up, bury it,put it in the ground and cover
the lid up, disguise it,camouflage it, act like we were
running from somebody.
That was our little hideout.
So we had little tree houseseverywhere.
I mean we explored every inchof that place.
That's my earliest memory ofbeing in the woods.
TJ (20:11):
Okay, yeah, and who were you doing that with?
Daniel (20:14):
Uh, usually my older brother, little brother,
sometimes my little sister wouldcome along.
TJ (20:19):
Yeah, did you have someone really involved in the outdoors?
You would say it was like themain person who introduced you
to that.
Daniel (20:25):
Yeah, so even my older brother, he, you know he knew
everything about all the lizardsand turtles and the salamanders
and you know he had books onlike what plants you could eat.
So you know we were out therelooking for these little I don't
know what they were littlewater chestnut things or I don't
even know what they were.
But uh, you know he knew allthose kinds of things.
So I kind of looked up to himand you know, try to follow his
(20:47):
lead out there.
And you know, make bows like hedid and whatever.
TJ (20:51):
So yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, would you say that eitherone of your parents had a
tendency to be outdoors.
Daniel (20:58):
No, not really.
None of them were like bigoutdoorsy.
My dad, you know he likescutting firewood and things like
that, but that's really it.
Yeah, and what about yourgrandmother?
I know you were really close toher.
Yeah, grandma, no, she wasn'toutdoors either.
We'd take her to the old millnorth of the rock some, and she
liked that, but other than thatshe was content with staying at
(21:18):
her house.
TJ (21:19):
Okay, what were the main ways?
I know you said you know playinto the biome.
What were some other ways thatyou spent time outdoors back
then?
Daniel (21:26):
Mainly just exploring that.
When I grew up in Gravel Ridgethat's kind of where that's you
know that's kind of all thewoods we had when I was nine or
10, my mom remarried.
We moved to Cleveland, arkansas.
My dad had a farm there acouple hundred acres, but we
were backed up to the Ozarks sowe had thousands of acres to
explore.
So out there you know bestfriends, nick and Nathan, and
(21:49):
then my brothers and sisters,we'd hang out in the woods but
you know, camp and hike andexploring, you know see how far
we could go before we got lost,try to find our way back.
TJ (22:00):
Was there anything that attracted you to the outdoors at
that point in time?
Daniel (22:04):
I guess I've always liked the outdoors, like you
know.
I guess all kids do, I knowmine do.
But when you're out thereeverything's just much simpler,
slower, like you were talkingabout earlier, and it's peaceful
, you know.
Spend hours out there and justrelax, yeah.
TJ (22:21):
What's the main way that you spend time outdoors these days,
like if you had your choice.
What do you?
What's your favorite thing todo?
Daniel (22:25):
It'd be hiking, hiking and camping sitting around the
fire.
Every night I hunt some.
Yeah, I hunt squirrels andthings like that, but mainly
that's because I'm walkingaround the woods just looking
around yeah.
TJ (22:36):
So if you could choose just one of those things to do from
now on, it would be hiking yeah,I think you get.
Daniel (22:41):
You get to.
You know, if you go hunting,deer hunting or whatever, like
you go to the same stand, it'sin the same spot, like hiking.
Like you can get 30 miles in aday if you want to see lots of
territory yeah, is there like aspecific terrain or region that
you would like to explore more?
I've done a lot of the ozarkhighland trail.
I'd like to finish thatappalachian trail would be cool.
(23:03):
Never, never, really got outthere.
It seems really busy yeah it's,from what I've seen, for me to
get out in the woods.
I don't want to be fightingcrowds, I just want to kind of
put my pack on and go.
Yeah, I haven't really beendrawn to go to the appalachian
trail just because of that maybethere's better times to go yeah
.
TJ (23:21):
Do you have a memory, either as a child or as an adult, that
sticks out as like yourfavorite?
Daniel (23:28):
One of the most memorable ones.
When I was almost burned downthe Bayou Meto, I thought it was
a good idea to take thesebullion cubes out and I was
going to make some soup.
So I started my little fire,started making some bullion
cubes and next thing, you know,the whole field's on fire.
Okay, so sprinted home, climbedup in the tree in my backyard
for some reason Not quite surewhat kind of survival skill that
(23:50):
was.
But after I climbed down I toldmy mom and somebody went and put
it out.
I mean, the fire departmentcame and I don't know who called
.
I guess she called, I'm notsure.
TJ (24:00):
But yeah, is that something we should be telling about now?
Daniel (24:03):
Probably not.
TJ (24:04):
You think?
Statute of limitations?
is up on that.
Daniel (24:06):
I'm probably, I'm probably, covered there okay.
TJ (24:09):
Is there a certain sound that transports you like to the
outdoors, like when you hear it,no matter where you're at, it
just like takes you outside?
I know, for me, um, when I hearwind whispering through the
pines, it takes me back to theozark national forest, and you
know, camping with grandpa andGrandma.
Daniel (24:26):
Yeah, just a crackling of fire for me.
TJ (24:29):
Yeah.
Daniel (24:34):
I love sitting around a campfire just staring at it
thinking about life, thinkingabout whatever.
TJ (24:38):
Yeah, have you ever had what you would refer to as a
spiritual moment in the woods oroutdoors?
Not necessarily a religiousmoment, just like something that
you would say affects you to asoul kind of level.
Daniel (24:50):
I don't know if it's a real spiritual thing, but I like
hiking in the woods by myself,just relaxing.
You get a lot of mental claritywhen you're out there but
nothing real spiritual.
I just know I feel at peace outthere.
I know I'm much more focused.
You know I could bring work outthere with me.
Or you know something I wantedto learn?
Pack that out with me, hang outin my hammock, read it.
(25:12):
Things sink in better.
There's no distractions.
I love doing that, especiallywhen our kids were littler.
I would go hike by myself.
You know she was in school andI would just hike out for a
couple of days and come back andthat was my thing.
TJ (25:23):
Yeah, if you had to pick one historical figure that you
could bring back and spend a daywith in the outdoors, who would
it be?
Where would you go?
Daniel (25:34):
I don't know who would I bring back.
TJ (25:38):
It's okay.
I don't know I kind of threwthat one on you?
Daniel (25:40):
Yeah, I'm not really sure.
I've never even thought aboutthat.
TJ (25:43):
Yeah, I think if I could bring anybody back it would have
to be Aldo Leopold.
I think after reading SandCounty Almanac.
Daniel (25:51):
Yeah, you sent me that.
I need to read that, I guessyeah.
TJ (25:54):
Just the way he presents the outdoors is is beautiful, so I
think he would be the one Iwould bring back just to have
some conversations with andmaybe explore the property that
he was owned at that point intime.
Daniel (26:05):
Yeah, I have to think on that.
TJ (26:07):
Yeah.
Daniel (26:07):
There's quite a few people, but I don't know who.
Okay.
TJ (26:10):
If this was a job interview, what would you say your
qualifications were for doingthis podcast?
Daniel (26:16):
I have a willingness to learn.
Okay, yeah, I think that'simportant.
I could work hard.
I definitely don't feel likeI'm an expert at any anything
outdoors, but I have a curiosityand hopefully we can get people
on here that have expertise inthese different areas of native
species and conservation and allthat, so I think I can help do
(26:36):
that.
Yeah, I think we can get thosepeople.
So make it interesting.
TJ (26:41):
I would hire you.
Daniel (26:42):
Yeah, I hope so.
TJ (26:45):
What kind of people do you want us to talk to?
Daniel (26:47):
Just talking to you about like the quail forever and
all that.
That's something I really havenot thought on before.
We were talking about it a yearor so ago, I think somebody
that's big in the native speciesbring those on.
That'd be interesting.
I live in a suburb, you know.
I would be interested to seewhat we can do in our yards and
(27:10):
things in our neighborhoods tobring back native species and
maybe cut down on the pesticideswe have to spray and the yard
sprays and all that.
So yeah that'd be interesting.
TJ (27:20):
I think just bringing people from different walks of life,
people that enjoy doingdifferent things you know, I
know we kind of have our ownthings that we like to do I
think it's going to be cool justto bring on people who do
things that are totallydifferent than we do and explore
why they enjoy those things andhow they get into them, and you
know why they have a love forthat kind of stuff.
Why would you say thatconservation matters at this
(27:43):
point in time?
Daniel (27:45):
like you said, as, as you get older, have kids, you
want your kids to experiencethings.
Like you did, we had free reignover the Ozarks and all of the
woods and everything, but, likeyou said, those aren't even
really natural anymore.
It would be nice to get stuffback to more natural and
preserving our green spaces, getthe butterflies to come back
(28:07):
and, you know, all these otheranimals we're missing, um, all
the birds.
We're just missing a lot ofhabitat for them.
So if we could bring that backand preserve some of that, but
then also figure out how we canget more people out there and
care about it and spend time inthe outdoors.
TJ (28:24):
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think people are evenaware of how many things that
well you know are sufferingbecause of loss of habitat and
different things these days, soI think that's going to be
really cool.
Is there any way that youpractice conservation in your
own life now?
Daniel (28:38):
Keeping things clean, picking up trash in our green
spaces behind our house, thosekind of things.
On conservation I guess.
But you know I don't own anyland or anything, so I don't do
any of that.
Yeah, I think that's about allthe questions I had okay, well,
we're sitting at about 32minutes, I feel, like any other
topics we need to hit no, Ithink, um, you know, just
(29:01):
inviting people back to listenas we interview some really cool
guests and we got some peoplewe've already talked to.
TJ (29:06):
Yeah, I'm excited about that .
Daniel (29:07):
They're going to be awesome um interview some really
cool guests and we got somepeople we've already talked to.
TJ (29:08):
Yeah, I'm excited about that .
They're going to be awesome.
Some older people, some reallycool stories.
Some younger people that dosome obscure outdoor activities.
Daniel (29:16):
Yeah, very passionate.
TJ (29:17):
Some people that are really educated about the outdoors.
So I think we have a wide rangeof guests coming up and just
encourage everybody to staytuned you know, as we explore
ways to get people to fall inlove with the outdoors, better
steward the spaces that we share, that kind of thing.
Anything you want to add tothat?
Daniel (29:36):
No, I think anybody that listened to this.
Though if uh know anybodythat's want to be on the podcast
or has good information aboutit, let us know and we'll try to
get somebody on here.
TJ (29:47):
Yeah, until next time.
Daniel (29:50):
Alright, till next time.
On Natural Obsession.
We're building a community ofpeople who love the outdoors and
want to see it flourish.
Through honest conversationswith adventurers,
conservationists and otherinteresting individuals, we
explore what makes our naturalspaces so special and how we can
all work together to preservethem.
It's about learning from thepast, appreciating the present
and protecting the future, onestory at a time.
TJ (00:51):
Hi, this is TJ Virden,
this is Daniel Emison
and this is the Natural Obsession.
Podcast.
Daniel (01:07):
All right, here we go.
First episode.
TJ (01:09):
You excited?
Daniel (01:10):
Oh yeah
TJ (01:10):
Me too.
How do you want to start thisthing?
Daniel (01:12):
I guess start off by introducing yourself, and then
I'll do me and get in somequestions about ourselves.
TJ (01:17):
Awesome.
So I'm TJ, Got a wife, Brianna,five kids they're a lot from
Morrilton, Arkansas originally.
Haven't moved away from therevery far and I love the outdoors
.
Daniel (01:30):
Sounds good.
I'm Daniel.
I have a wife, three kids,Jessica and my three girls.
I grew up in Jacksonville untilI was about eight or nine,
moved to Cleveland, Arkansas.
Since then, I've been anoutdoor person, love the
outdoors and that's what we'reinto our podcast on
TJ (01:48):
yes, sir do you want to start out being asked the
questions or do you want to dothe asking?
Daniel (01:53):
I'll do the asking
TJ (01:55):
no pressure
Daniel (01:56):
all right.
So we got a few questions here.
Go down kind of go through themand see what we got.
So what's your earliest memoryof being in nature and how did
it shape your appreciation forthe outdoors?
TJ (02:10):
One of my earliest memories of being in nature and they're
kind of hard to separate at thatage is of going hunting with
Dad and my brother.
He took us down this old dirtroad.
I can still lead you theretoday and show you exactly where
we parked and stuff.
I remember his old truck,throwing my little youth bow in
the back of it on the way downthere and thought I was going to
(02:31):
get to carry it with me.
Got out there and dad haddifferent plans.
He just wanted us to go sitwith him and watch him hunt,
which was cool, and so mybrother and I went out.
He set us at a tree, probably30-40 yards away from where he
was at, and we proceeded towatch squirrels play in the
leaves you know, do kid thingsinstead of being serious about
(02:54):
hunting, which was to dad'sdismay.
He was pretty serious about thatkind of stuff.
Yeah, so he was wanting to killdeer.
We were wanting to play, youknow, just like kids, yeah.
Yeah, so he was wanting to killdeer.
We were wanting to play, youknow, just like kids Anyway.
So we ended up seeing somesquirrels, saw a couple does run
by.
I can still vividly rememberone particular doe running by,
(03:14):
probably one that we spooked,looking back, you know.
But dad ended up shooting at abuck in front of us and from our
angle we could see a stump infront of where he was shooting.
From his angle he couldn't seethe stump and so we saw the
arrow clearly hit the stump,which aggravated Ed pretty good.
But anyway, he missed that deerand we were probably in trouble
(03:39):
a little bit just for beingrowdy and all the things, Doing
the kid things.
But yeah, that was one of myfirst memories of being in the
outdoors.
I don't know how old I was, Iwould say probably four or five,
you know okay yeah, so prettyyoung and um, I think you know
what that did for me was justgave me an appreciation for
(03:59):
being with people in theoutdoors.
You know, I always enjoyedbeing with my brother, my mom,
my dad, grandparents, whoever Iwas with in the outdoors, and so
I think you know that was thetakeaway.
I was enjoying that and alsojust watching nature.
I still can sit and watchsquirrels play today and be just
as happy, you know, as if I wasshooting a big buck or anything
like that.
Daniel (04:18):
So you know, if you're hunting deer, you're gonna see
lots of squirrels, so yeah,naturally okay.
Was there a specific moment orexperience that made you realize
the outdoors was somethingyou're passionate about?
TJ (04:31):
yeah, I don't know like one that made me know that I was
passionate about it.
I think there was a point intime when I figured out that I
had a love for the outdoors.
You know I I always enjoyedgoing to camp and ozark national
forest and and sitting aroundthe fire and riding
four-wheelers and that kind ofstuff.
I enjoyed reading books aboutanimals and watching
(04:54):
documentaries about Jane Goodalland conservation and that kind
of stuff, even from a reallyearly age.
But I think I didn't figure outthat I had a passion for it
until I was in my teen years.
But I think I didn't figure outthat I had a passion for it
until I was in my teen years andat that point in time I started
going out and hunting a lot onmy own and I would walk about a
mile in and I would just sitthere all day and watch whatever
(05:15):
came by, and so I think thatyou know, being out there all
day and just being able to sitthere, with or without seeing
deer, is when I figured out thatI had a passion for it.
you know watching the sunsets,watching animals, and just you
know the different things
Daniel (05:29):
yeah, not even just hunting, just being out there,
TJ (05:31):
yeah yeah, hunting's cool, but just being outside is is the
main thing
Daniel (05:36):
okay, if you could describe your connection to
nature in one word, what wouldit be?
TJ (05:42):
I think wonder would probably be the word that comes
to mind, like that.
Yeah, just because I feel likeit doesn't matter how many times
you go out there or where yougo, there's always something new
to observe and see.
And so wonder, or all I thinkwould be if I had to describe it
in a single word Okay, yeah.
Daniel (06:01):
We kind of talked about this the other day.
What is a memorable adventureor outdoor experience you had,
and what did it teach you aboutyourself?
TJ (06:09):
So this one time, when I guess I was I think I was
already married at this point intime so outdoor adventures had
became a little less often, butevery once in a while, you know,
I was still getting out anddoing adventures with friends.
So my brother a friend of mineand myself went out to the
Washington National Forest andhad planned on hammock camping
(06:33):
just for a day or two, you know,not taking anything except for
a little bit of food and someguns, planning on killing.
You know what we were going toeat and that kind of thing.
So we got out there camp.
Of course you know how it iswhen you go intending on killing
something, you kill nothing.
And so we had zero food otherthan the granola bars and stuff,
or at least that's what theythought at the moment.
(06:54):
And so we did the first nightby this creek, and that was cool
.
It was pretty cold that night.
The next day it kind of warmedup and so we decided to hike to
the top of Fork Mountain and tryto spend the night there.
Daniel (07:08):
Yeah, I've been there.
TJ (07:10):
Yeah, if you've been on top, you know that there's not much
on top of Fork Mountain.
It's just pretty much, you know, a spot as big as your living
room or so.
And so we climbed up throughthis rock slide with our guns on
our back and our big packs andthen we had, like, our hammocks
and that sort of thing as well,sleeping bags Got to the top and
figured out there was basicallyno trees to tie hammocks to.
(07:32):
There are trees up there, butthey're stunted, which should be
the first clue into this story.
But you know, we didn't thinkanything about it, we're just
going to spend the night upthere.
And so we proceeded to tie upour hammocks on whatever trees
we could find, had to tie offback to some rocks with the
trees, because they were sosmall in some places.
I set up a grill and pulled outsome steaks, because that's who
(07:55):
I am when I go camping.
Daniel (07:55):
You weren't, you weren't thinking you were going to kill
anything exactly
TJ (07:58):
I prepared.
You know I like to eat well,and so my brother and Calvin had
their granola bars, and youknow how that goes when you take
steak people can't just eat thegranola bar again, they share
the steak.
And so we shared some bigsteaks up there on top and it
was pretty calm for that wholeperiod while we were cooking.
That was up till about dusksometime, right around you know
(08:21):
dusk, or maybe even like rightafter sunset, the wind began to
pick up and proceeded to blow, Iwould say at hurricane forces.
I don't think I'm exaggeratingthere.
I wish I had like a wind speedmonitor up there that night.
But it blew so hard that itblew us around in our hammocks,
blew the tarp off of me that Ihad I had one of those survival
(08:43):
tarps just to wrap up in kind ofstay a little bit more and it
blew the outlets out of thosewell it was so loud up there
that at one point we shot apistol off and you couldn't hear
for the wind blowing, and so itwas pretty, pretty fierce.
So we made it all the waythrough the night with a little
sleep.
I think they eventually tied mytarp around me just to keep it
on the hammock.
(09:03):
You know, no, underquilt wasn'tprepared for that and we made
it through the night and got upthe next morning hiked down.
But I think what that taught mewas that, you know, those tough
times in the outdoors producegood memories and some of the
best memories, I think yeah, Iagree.
Daniel (09:22):
Yeah you, you got to have your underquilt for the
hammock.
Even if it's only like 50, 60degrees that wind will suck your
heat out.
TJ (09:30):
Well, I probably needed a few more podcasts under my belt
to learn from people who'veactually done that before.
I could have helped you withthat, yeah.
Daniel (09:36):
I learned from just being so smart.
I didn't ever go without one.
TJ (09:40):
Oh yeah, sure,
is there a person in your lifewho's influenced your love for
the outdoors or taught you torespect it?
You know I was lucky to be from a family who pretty much
all respected the outdoors.
I can remember once or twice Ihope Dad's not listening but him
(10:02):
throwing a piece of trash outthe window or something like
that, you know.
But for the most part you knoweverybody was really good about
respecting the outdoors.
They all taught us to clean upafter ourselves.
Grandpa was really big aboutwhat we burned in the fire.
You know not leaving glass oraluminum in a fire pit.
You know when we were in thenational forest and different
things like that, always told topick up.
You know stuff if we saw ithere and there.
(10:24):
You know mom was always a cleanfreak and so she was definitely
not going to let us leaveanything behind when we were
outside.
Daniel (10:32):
I think back in that time, when we're about the same
age, you know, littering was abig thing that they went after,
so I think that was oneverybody's mind at that point
too.
TJ (10:42):
Yeah, I think it was definitely something that they
all thought about.
I can't remember yeah, I can'tremember anybody really doing
anything that I could, besidesdad, maybe throwing a piece of
trash out the window going downthe road.
Daniel (10:56):
You know that was a counter to that.
Okay, how have your views onnature and conservation evolved
over time?
TJ (11:03):
When I was a kid, you know, obviously, like I said, I liked
watching the Jane Goodalldocumentaries where she was
living with the apes, and youknow I also love the San Diego
zoo um documentary.
So I had a love forconservation I would say from an
early age.
From reading the books anddifferent things that I did, I
knew about extinct animals andendangered species and all that
kind of stuff, um, but I don'tthink it really started to hit
(11:28):
home until I got older, I wouldsay in my thirties maybe, even
when I acquired my own land forthe first time that I really
started to think about andhaving kids too.
You know you have kids.
I think it kind of changes yourperspective on how long things
are going to be around and whatcondition they're going to be in
.
And you know, and as you ageand so it wasn't until then, I
think that you know, I startedto have a real desire to be
(11:51):
conservative in my approach tothe outdoors.
Daniel (11:53):
And understanding that it's important.
You know as a kid, you know youlike the things outside.
TJ (11:57):
Yeah, when I had to be there , yeah for sure, and when I had
the land, you know, once I hadit, I met with Quail Forever and
Arkansas, game of Fish andother people like that who
enlightened me to the conditionof my land and other land
surrounding me.
And so once, once they told mesome things you know, once your
eyes are opened, it's hard to goback.
So I would say that those,that's really the time in my
life when, when that started toblossom.
Daniel (12:19):
Okay, what are just a couple of things they told you
that that opened your eyes tothat, I guess.
TJ (12:25):
Yeah, and just so, just like I think, even the condition of
our national forest.
You know, we think that ournational forests are natural and
that's not necessarily the case.
When the Louisiana Purchasehappened there was a survey
where they went through andmarked about every mile what the
condition of the land was in,and some in a journal, and so
(12:45):
back then we didn't have, youknow, thick overgrown forest in
the Ozarks.
It was sparsely populated, youknow, with with oaks and
Savannah prairie, that sort ofthing.
Daniel (12:58):
Yeah Way, different than it looks now.
TJ (13:00):
Yeah, way different than it looks now, and so I would have
never known that sort of thingif I hadn't talked to those
kinds of people with thatexpertise, and so, yeah, Okay,
yeah, that's something I didn'tknow either.
Daniel (13:10):
Yeah, I thought the Ozarks.
I grew up around them.
I thought they were natural.
TJ (13:13):
Yeah, I think I did too.
Daniel (13:16):
All right, so what's your favorite outdoor activity
and what's it makes it specialto you?
TJ (13:21):
Yeah.
So I would still have to saythat hunting is my favorite
outdoor activity and I thinkit's just because it was time
spent with family.
That's what we did together,whether it was at deer camp in
the ozarks or whether it was,you know, right by the house.
If dad and I, or grandpa and I,were spending time together, it
was usually usually either likesome kind of work or hunting,
(13:43):
and so it's just special to mebecause of that.
But, that being said, ifhunting went away today, you
know they took away guns andbows and and all the things I
could still enjoy being out andsitting in a tree, because it
was really the nature that weconnected in more than actual,
you know doing anything killingof an animal or anything like
that.
Daniel (14:03):
So what do you think?
Sharing stories about theoutdoors is important today.
TJ (14:08):
Well, you know, some people aren't as blessed as I've been
to have a family who loves theoutdoors, and so I think sharing
that love is good, just becauseI think it's a space for me to
be able to get out and relax andenjoy nature without the
business of life.
Um, you know we've talked aboutmental health and how you know,
busyness and that sort of thingleads to stress, and I think
(14:32):
nature is the opposite of that,at least for me.
Daniel (14:34):
Yeah.
TJ (14:35):
To be out and be in the quiet you know, and so hearing
the stories of other people whohave enjoyed time outdoors made
memories, have stories to me.
You know it's good.
It's a way too for us toconnect to other people.
I think you know I can connectto somebody I've never met
through stories.
Daniel (14:53):
Yeah, and so, and y'all grew closer, probably on the top
of that mountain when you'refighting the wind.
TJ (14:59):
For sure.
Daniel (15:02):
What do you hope our listeners will take away from
hearing our stories and those ofthe guests that we bring on?
TJ (15:07):
Yeah, so I mean, I hope that we all learn from this you know
, I hope that we learn toappreciate the outdoors more.
I hope that we learn to be moreconservationally minded, to
think outside the box and by theways that we spend time in the
outdoors.
You know I like to hunt, kayakfish, but I'm not really much of
(15:30):
a biker.
Daniel (15:31):
Yeah.
TJ (15:31):
Spelunker.
Daniel (15:33):
Not a spelunker.
Bird watcher sometimes maybe,but you know um.
I look forward to hearing otherpeople's stories and the way
they connect and, you know, hopethat that inspires other people
to find new ways to get out andto take care and steward to the
places that we have together.
Okay, so the next question I guess I kind of the
same like what inspired you tostart natural obsession, and
(15:54):
then, what impact do you thinkit'll have?
TJ (15:56):
Age as you get older.
You know I'm approaching 40.
And so I think the age has leftme wanting to leave some kind
of legacy.
I have a career and that sortof thing, but there's really not
a legacy that I feel like I'mleaving in.
That, yeah, and so if I canteach people to love the
outdoors and enjoy it like Ihave even my own family, my kids
(16:19):
if they could come away with alove for the outdoors like I've
had and have those experiences,those memories there and learn
to be stewards of it, toconserve it, make sure it's
around for generations to come,I think that's really what I
hope to gain by doing thepodcast.
Daniel (16:37):
If you could go back in time and experience the natural
world as it was in any era, whenand where would you go?
TJ (16:44):
I think that I would go back to pre-Louisiana Purchase and I
think I would want to be in theWest.
To me, I've always wanted, I'vehad a fascination with
migrating animals, and so to seethe buffalo on the plains and
actually moving the numbers andthe health of the herds like
they were at that point in time,I think would be a really cool
(17:06):
time place to be and toexperience.
Time place to be and toexperience.
Obviously, that's somethingthat you can't really experience
these days unless you go tosomewhere like Africa See
wildebeest.
Daniel (17:19):
Big herds.
How do you think people'srelationship with nature will
change over the next 50 years,and what role do you want this
podcast to play in that?
TJ (17:29):
Yeah, so I think I have a fear of there being a decline in
spaces that we can enter innature, the health of it, the
health of deer numbers, turkeynumbers, quail you know we've
already seen decline in thingslike quail and turkey over the
past however many years.
Yeah, and so I think thatthere's a real concern about the
(17:52):
health of things around us andthe places that we spend time,
the habitat that all thesespecies are in.
And what was the second part ofthat?
Daniel (17:56):
What do you hope this podcast does for that?
TJ (17:59):
I would love for it to somehow bring enough awareness
in people that we change that,that it's no longer going
towards that trajectory.
Daniel (18:07):
Yeah.
TJ (18:07):
I think it's a big vision.
I don't know if we will havethat effect, but certainly where
we're aiming, shooting for thestars.
Daniel (18:13):
Yeah, I like that.
What's one quirky or unexpectedhabit you have when you're out
in nature, besides bringingsteaks to Fork Mountain?
TJ (18:21):
Yeah, definitely known for that one.
I think I told you this theother day.
I have a tendency, when I'moutdoors, to focus on death, and
I don't mean for that to soundmorbid, but it just reminds me
of the brevity of life.
When I'm out in nature watchingthings, life passes by pretty
quick, but when you're outsideit seems to stand still for a
little while.
And you know, I can remembersitting by a tree when I was
four years old.
(18:42):
Now I'm close to 40.
And so, just thinking about howquick it passes, if this is the
halfway point, then I don'thave a whole lot left.
Like I say, I don't mean tosound morbid, but I just like to
think about how short life is,and it reminds me to stay on
task and to do better and thosesort of things.
Also, though, I'm a Lord of theRings fan, and so every once in
(19:02):
a while I might picture like atree, ant or something out in
the woods, or I might picturelike a tree, ant or something
out in the woods or, you know,wonder if Bigfoot Little hobbits
riding around on them.
Yeah, or wonder if Bigfoot isreal.
You know, I think that's aboutas quirky as I get.
Daniel (19:13):
Okay.
Well, that's all the questionsI have for you, unless you can
think of something you just wantto add in there.
TJ (19:19):
No, I think that's good.
I think I'd rather ask youquestions for a little while, if
you're down for that.
Daniel (19:23):
I'm down for it.
TJ (19:25):
All right, what is your first memory of being outside?
Daniel (19:29):
So I grew up in Jacksonville, actually Gravel
Ridge.
It was backed up to the BayouMeto.
Most of my memories from realearly are from out in the Bayou
Meto, just exploring buildingforts with my brothers hunting
around, making blow darts out ofthe little reeds out there.
That's kind of where I remembermostly.
(19:51):
But we had all kinds of little.
You know, there was old washingmachines out there.
You could dig it up, bury it,put it in the ground and cover
the lid up, disguise it,camouflage it, act like we were
running from somebody.
That was our little hideout.
So we had little tree houseseverywhere.
I mean we explored every inchof that place.
That's my earliest memory ofbeing in the woods.
TJ (20:11):
Okay, yeah, and who were you doing that with?
Daniel (20:14):
Uh, usually my older brother, little brother,
sometimes my little sister wouldcome along.
TJ (20:19):
Yeah, did you have someone really involved in the outdoors?
You would say it was like themain person who introduced you
to that.
Daniel (20:25):
Yeah, so even my older brother, he, you know he knew
everything about all the lizardsand turtles and the salamanders
and you know he had books onlike what plants you could eat.
So you know we were out therelooking for these little I don't
know what they were littlewater chestnut things or I don't
even know what they were.
But uh, you know he knew allthose kinds of things.
So I kind of looked up to himand you know, try to follow his
(20:47):
lead out there.
And you know, make bows like hedid and whatever.
TJ (20:51):
So yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, would you say that eitherone of your parents had a
tendency to be outdoors.
Daniel (20:58):
No, not really.
None of them were like bigoutdoorsy.
My dad, you know he likescutting firewood and things like
that, but that's really it.
Yeah, and what about yourgrandmother?
I know you were really close toher.
Yeah, grandma, no, she wasn'toutdoors either.
We'd take her to the old millnorth of the rock some, and she
liked that, but other than thatshe was content with staying at
(21:18):
her house.
TJ (21:19):
Okay, what were the main ways?
I know you said you know playinto the biome.
What were some other ways thatyou spent time outdoors back
then?
Daniel (21:26):
Mainly just exploring that.
When I grew up in Gravel Ridgethat's kind of where that's you
know that's kind of all thewoods we had when I was nine or
10, my mom remarried.
We moved to Cleveland, arkansas.
My dad had a farm there acouple hundred acres, but we
were backed up to the Ozarks sowe had thousands of acres to
explore.
So out there you know bestfriends, nick and Nathan, and
(21:49):
then my brothers and sisters,we'd hang out in the woods but
you know, camp and hike andexploring, you know see how far
we could go before we got lost,try to find our way back.
TJ (22:00):
Was there anything that attracted you to the outdoors at
that point in time?
Daniel (22:04):
I guess I've always liked the outdoors, like you
know.
I guess all kids do, I knowmine do.
But when you're out thereeverything's just much simpler,
slower, like you were talkingabout earlier, and it's peaceful
, you know.
Spend hours out there and justrelax, yeah.
TJ (22:21):
What's the main way that you spend time outdoors these days,
like if you had your choice.
What do you?
What's your favorite thing todo?
Daniel (22:25):
It'd be hiking, hiking and camping sitting around the
fire.
Every night I hunt some.
Yeah, I hunt squirrels andthings like that, but mainly
that's because I'm walkingaround the woods just looking
around yeah.
TJ (22:36):
So if you could choose just one of those things to do from
now on, it would be hiking yeah,I think you get.
Daniel (22:41):
You get to.
You know, if you go hunting,deer hunting or whatever, like
you go to the same stand, it'sin the same spot, like hiking.
Like you can get 30 miles in aday if you want to see lots of
territory yeah, is there like aspecific terrain or region that
you would like to explore more?
I've done a lot of the ozarkhighland trail.
I'd like to finish thatappalachian trail would be cool.
(23:03):
Never, never, really got outthere.
It seems really busy yeah it's,from what I've seen, for me to
get out in the woods.
I don't want to be fightingcrowds, I just want to kind of
put my pack on and go.
Yeah, I haven't really beendrawn to go to the appalachian
trail just because of that maybethere's better times to go yeah
.
TJ (23:21):
Do you have a memory, either as a child or as an adult, that
sticks out as like yourfavorite?
Daniel (23:28):
One of the most memorable ones.
When I was almost burned downthe Bayou Meto, I thought it was
a good idea to take thesebullion cubes out and I was
going to make some soup.
So I started my little fire,started making some bullion
cubes and next thing, you know,the whole field's on fire.
Okay, so sprinted home, climbedup in the tree in my backyard
for some reason Not quite surewhat kind of survival skill that
(23:50):
was.
But after I climbed down I toldmy mom and somebody went and put
it out.
I mean, the fire departmentcame and I don't know who called
.
I guess she called, I'm notsure.
TJ (24:00):
But yeah, is that something we should be telling about now?
Daniel (24:03):
Probably not.
TJ (24:04):
You think?
Statute of limitations?
is up on that.
Daniel (24:06):
I'm probably, I'm probably, covered there okay.
TJ (24:09):
Is there a certain sound that transports you like to the
outdoors, like when you hear it,no matter where you're at, it
just like takes you outside?
I know, for me, um, when I hearwind whispering through the
pines, it takes me back to theozark national forest, and you
know, camping with grandpa andGrandma.
Daniel (24:26):
Yeah, just a crackling of fire for me.
TJ (24:29):
Yeah.
Daniel (24:34):
I love sitting around a campfire just staring at it
thinking about life, thinkingabout whatever.
TJ (24:38):
Yeah, have you ever had what you would refer to as a
spiritual moment in the woods oroutdoors?
Not necessarily a religiousmoment, just like something that
you would say affects you to asoul kind of level.
Daniel (24:50):
I don't know if it's a real spiritual thing, but I like
hiking in the woods by myself,just relaxing.
You get a lot of mental claritywhen you're out there but
nothing real spiritual.
I just know I feel at peace outthere.
I know I'm much more focused.
You know I could bring work outthere with me.
Or you know something I wantedto learn?
Pack that out with me, hang outin my hammock, read it.
(25:12):
Things sink in better.
There's no distractions.
I love doing that, especiallywhen our kids were littler.
I would go hike by myself.
You know she was in school andI would just hike out for a
couple of days and come back andthat was my thing.
TJ (25:23):
Yeah, if you had to pick one historical figure that you
could bring back and spend a daywith in the outdoors, who would
it be?
Where would you go?
Daniel (25:34):
I don't know who would I bring back.
TJ (25:38):
It's okay.
I don't know I kind of threwthat one on you?
Daniel (25:40):
Yeah, I'm not really sure.
I've never even thought aboutthat.
TJ (25:43):
Yeah, I think if I could bring anybody back it would have
to be Aldo Leopold.
I think after reading SandCounty Almanac.
Daniel (25:51):
Yeah, you sent me that.
I need to read that, I guessyeah.
TJ (25:54):
Just the way he presents the outdoors is is beautiful, so I
think he would be the one Iwould bring back just to have
some conversations with andmaybe explore the property that
he was owned at that point intime.
Daniel (26:05):
Yeah, I have to think on that.
TJ (26:07):
Yeah.
Daniel (26:07):
There's quite a few people, but I don't know who.
Okay.
TJ (26:10):
If this was a job interview, what would you say your
qualifications were for doingthis podcast?
Daniel (26:16):
I have a willingness to learn.
Okay, yeah, I think that'simportant.
I could work hard.
I definitely don't feel likeI'm an expert at any anything
outdoors, but I have a curiosityand hopefully we can get people
on here that have expertise inthese different areas of native
species and conservation and allthat, so I think I can help do
(26:36):
that.
Yeah, I think we can get thosepeople.
So make it interesting.
TJ (26:41):
I would hire you.
Daniel (26:42):
Yeah, I hope so.
TJ (26:45):
What kind of people do you want us to talk to?
Daniel (26:47):
Just talking to you about like the quail forever and
all that.
That's something I really havenot thought on before.
We were talking about it a yearor so ago, I think somebody
that's big in the native speciesbring those on.
That'd be interesting.
I live in a suburb, you know.
I would be interested to seewhat we can do in our yards and
(27:10):
things in our neighborhoods tobring back native species and
maybe cut down on the pesticideswe have to spray and the yard
sprays and all that.
So yeah that'd be interesting.
TJ (27:20):
I think just bringing people from different walks of life,
people that enjoy doingdifferent things you know, I
know we kind of have our ownthings that we like to do I
think it's going to be cool justto bring on people who do
things that are totallydifferent than we do and explore
why they enjoy those things andhow they get into them, and you
know why they have a love forthat kind of stuff.
Why would you say thatconservation matters at this
(27:43):
point in time?
Daniel (27:45):
like you said, as, as you get older, have kids, you
want your kids to experiencethings.
Like you did, we had free reignover the Ozarks and all of the
woods and everything, but, likeyou said, those aren't even
really natural anymore.
It would be nice to get stuffback to more natural and
preserving our green spaces, getthe butterflies to come back
(28:07):
and, you know, all these otheranimals we're missing, um, all
the birds.
We're just missing a lot ofhabitat for them.
So if we could bring that backand preserve some of that, but
then also figure out how we canget more people out there and
care about it and spend time inthe outdoors.
TJ (28:24):
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think people are evenaware of how many things that
well you know are sufferingbecause of loss of habitat and
different things these days, soI think that's going to be
really cool.
Is there any way that youpractice conservation in your
own life now?
Daniel (28:38):
Keeping things clean, picking up trash in our green
spaces behind our house, thosekind of things.
On conservation I guess.
But you know I don't own anyland or anything, so I don't do
any of that.
Yeah, I think that's about allthe questions I had okay, well,
we're sitting at about 32minutes, I feel, like any other
topics we need to hit no, Ithink, um, you know, just
(29:01):
inviting people back to listenas we interview some really cool
guests and we got some peoplewe've already talked to.
TJ (29:06):
Yeah, I'm excited about that .
Daniel (29:07):
They're going to be awesome um interview some really
cool guests and we got somepeople we've already talked to.
TJ (29:08):
Yeah, I'm excited about that .
They're going to be awesome.
Some older people, some reallycool stories.
Some younger people that dosome obscure outdoor activities.
Daniel (29:16):
Yeah, very passionate.
TJ (29:17):
Some people that are really educated about the outdoors.
So I think we have a wide rangeof guests coming up and just
encourage everybody to staytuned you know, as we explore
ways to get people to fall inlove with the outdoors, better
steward the spaces that we share, that kind of thing.
Anything you want to add tothat?
Daniel (29:36):
No, I think anybody that listened to this.
Though if uh know anybodythat's want to be on the podcast
or has good information aboutit, let us know and we'll try to
get somebody on here.
TJ (29:47):
Yeah, until next time.
Daniel (29:50):
Alright, till next time.
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