EP 14 | A Growing Passion: An Interview With Joe Lamp'l

Stepping into the garden with Joe Lamp'l (better known as Joe the Gardener) feels like walking alongside a trusted friend who's been tending the soil for decades. The Emmy award-winning host of PBS's "Growing a Greener World" brings warmth, wisdom, and infectious enthusiasm to our conversation about finding joy in nature and living more intentionally.

Joe's journey began with a magical childhood moment—at eight years old, he accidentally broke a branch from a hedge, stuck it in the ground to hide his mistake, and returned months later to discover it had taken root and sprouted new leaves. That single moment of wonder sparked a lifelong passion that eventually led him from corporate accounting to becoming one of America's most beloved gardening educators.

What strikes you immediately about Joe is his authentic connection to the natural world. Despite decades in the field, his curiosity remains insatiable. "I love gardening more today than yesterday, and tomorrow I'll love it more than today," he shares, explaining how each discovery adds another layer to his appreciation rather than replacing what came before. This perspective offers a refreshing counterpoint to our culture of constant consumption and disposable experiences.

Throughout our conversation, Joe weaves practical gardening wisdom with profound insights about slowing down and rewilding both our landscapes and ourselves. He describes his morning ritual of sitting outside with coffee at dawn, listening to birdsong before checking emails—a simple practice that grounds him in nature's rhythms before the day's demands begin. This intentional approach to living carries through to his gardening practices, where he's recently embraced incorporating more native plants and creating habitat spaces that support wildlife.

One of the most thought-provoking moments comes when Joe articulates a concept many of us intuitively feel but struggle to name: "It's the losses we notice, it's the diminishment we don't see." Using the example of monarch butterflies, he illustrates how gradual decline often escapes our attention until species are critically endangered. His gentle reminder that "every bit counts" empowers listeners to take action in whatever space they have available—from extensive acreage to apartment balconies.

Ready to reconnect with nature and discover the joy of growing? Subscribe to our podcast for more conversations with people who are living differently and creating positive change in their communities. Share your own gardening journey with us on social media—we'd love to see how you're living slow and re-wilding your corner of the world.

Joe's Webiste: https://joegardener.com/

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What is the Natural Obsession Podcast all about?

Growing up, we all had those moments in nature that stuck with us—whether it was a quiet walk in the woods or a grand adventure. On Natural Obsession, it’s our desire to bring those moments to life. As we talk to people from all walks of life we will learn how they fell in love with the outdoors, the different ways they enjoy it today, and explore how we can work together to ensure these spaces are around for years to come. It’s all about sharing memories from the outdoors and ensuring future generations can make their own.

To find out more about Natural Obsession and hosts, Daniel Emison and TJ Virden, visit our website at https://www.natob.co/.

If you have questions about episodes or have guest recommendations please email us at [e-mail].

Follow us on social media to keep up with upcoming guests and episode info:

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This week, our guest is Joe Lempel, maybe better
known as Joe the Gardener.
You may recognize his name fromthe Emmy award-winning TV show
on PBS, Growing a Greener World.
Joe has spent decades teachingpeople how to garden and says he
has no plans of stopping untilhe's compost himself.
Come along with us as he talksabout how he found his passion,
how nature is still his happyplace, recent gardening

(00:23):
revelations and more.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Season 2 of Natural Obsession.
This season we're leaning intosomething that feels more urgent
and more hopeful than ever Liveslow, rewild.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's about restoring what's been lost, not just in
the land, but in ourselves.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
We'll talk with people who are living
differently building organicsoil and growing food with care,
protecting dark skies,stewarding homesteads and living
in rhythm with bees, herbs andnatural remedies.
And those are just a few.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
These aren't perfect stories.
They're real ones Because toomuch is being lost Wild places,
native species and ourconnection to the land.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
If you've been feeling that too, come with us
Let.
If you've been feeling that too, come with us.
Let's live slow Rewild.
Hey Joe, Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Daniel TJ, thank you for having me.
It's good to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Great to have you.
So you know maybe some of ourlisteners don't know who you are
.
Explain how you describeyourself and what you do and go
from there.
It's a lot of hats, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
No, it's okay, you know it's funny.
I've been kind of in this arenafor 30 years doing what I do
and I still don't have myelevator pitch ironed out.
I don't even know where tobegin with that, but I would say
this when people ask me this mylatest thing is well, I teach
people how to garden organically, mainly growing food and
focusing on native plants.

(01:46):
I do that through all forms ofmedia television, video,
podcasting, you name it, andthat's it.
I've hosted three nationaltelevision shows on gardening
over 20 years and we have anonline gardening academy with
thousands of students that wantto go deeper on certain subjects
related to gardening, the toprated podcast on Apple for
gardening and other stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
So it's all about gardening and I love it.
Yeah, so kind of what was yourearliest memory of connecting
with outdoors and what got youstarted on that path?
Good question.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
I've always loved nature that much.
I know just in awe of it frommy earliest memories.
But my memory related togardening was around eight years
old.
I am one of four boys.
I'm the youngest.
My next oldest brother was fiveyears older than me but when I
was eight and he's 13,.
He's out with his buddies butI'm hanging out with dad because
I have dad all to myself forthe weekend and he's the weekend

(02:40):
warrior.
I don't come from a family ofgardeners but he was the guy
that was taking a Saturday tomow the yard and edge the
driveway and clip the bushes andall of that stuff and I loved,
whatever it would be, that I hada chance to spend time with him
.
So that's what I would do withhim on Saturdays and this one
day we finished and he wentinside mid afternoon or so I'm
still full of energy and I'mrunning around and I tripped

(03:02):
over a branch on a shrub.
He had just been pruning.
I say pruning he probably hejust had the clippers.
He wasn't really just lobbing itoff, you know, but my
terminology is etched in my it's, in my DNA.
Now I have to say certain ways.
And, um, I broke a branch andI'm like, oh no, what do I do,
you know?
So I didn't want to get caught,so he wouldn't have cared, he

(03:23):
would not have cared, but Istill went.
I'd stuck it in the ground.
Basically, I buried my tracks, Istuck the stick in the ground
by the base of the plant,covered it up, I went about my
business and forgot about ituntil about two months later and
I came by.
I came by that same area and Ijogged my memory that I'd broken
that branch.
I'm like, well, where is it?
Which one is it?
And I couldn't, I couldn't findthe dead branch.

(03:43):
I didn't know if it'd be aliveor dead, but I had no idea it
was going to regrow.
But it had.
It finally found the one and itstarted sprouting new leaves
and it started growing someroots, because I tugged on it
and it resisted a little bit.
And I'm like, what justhappened?
And I'm not kidding, that isthe moment that I said I got to
know more and I have a naturalsense of curiosity.

(04:06):
So when I didn't know what hadjust happened, but I wanted to
know what happened that led meinto planting a gazillion things
in the next week, you know,like breaking off or cutting
more branches to stick them inthe ground to replicate the
propagation.
And I started seeds.
And I lived down the streetfrom a nursery, a two block bike
ride away, and that placealways intrigued me anyway.
But now I had a new interest inwanting to maybe get some

(04:28):
plants and I ended up buyingroses of all things at eight
years old, started a rose garden, planted bean seeds underneath
my parents' bedroom window,cause that was the sunny side of
the house.
Eight beans from it, you know,eight weeks later.
So I was hooked.
I was, I was on my way andthere was no going back and
truly I've never slowed downfrom that.

(04:49):
I've always just built on everyday and I'll continue to do
that until I'm compost.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, thanks.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, Watching those things grow just kind of just
sparked your curiosity and justnever stopped from there.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, I just was amazed at how that happened.
And if that happened, what elsedo plants do?
I love the fact that, eventhough I didn't intentionally
try to make that thing grow, itdid and it's like, wow, I can,
can I do this and make otherthings grow?
And loving nature and wantingto, you know, work with plants
or be around that environment, Ijust felt like it was a natural

(05:27):
fit and the stars aligned andthings fell into place.
And growing up in Miami Floridatoo, it you know everything
grows there, so it was a reallygreat environment for year round
, being outside and doing whatyou wanted, and and I did a lot
of experimentation with plants.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, do you remember what that first bush was.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
It was a rivet, it was a hedge, it was just a
standard landscape hedge.
You know, that's what it was.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
So we've talked about kind of how you started and
you've built a reallyintentional setup with.
You know your tool pouch, yourgardening systems, the way
you've designed your garden outthere, what drives that
precision and care that you'veput in all of your businesses so
far.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Something else I think I was born with I'm a
little quirky and I like to gothe extra mile.
It's just in my DNA.
I don't want to settle formediocrity.
I really want to stand out.
And it's not that I want tostand out, it's just that.
That's who I am.
I learned an expression from amentor years ago and he said

(06:29):
people buy differences, notsimilarities.
And prior to learning thatsaying, I was doing things
differently by going the extramile.
And I don't call myself aperfectionist and I don't claim
to be one, but I do like to dothe little bit of extra effort
that puts the shine on the metal.

(06:50):
You know that has carriedthrough in everything I do.
And so when I becameself-employed, basically all my
adult life, I was just driven.
I'm just, I think, naturallydriven, and again, it's not to
reach a certain goal, it's justbecause I expect that from
myself.
And so it transfers into thethings that I'm involved with.
And so with my business, I didwant to be successful because my

(07:13):
livelihood and my family's lifedepended on it.
But it's worked out, because theother thing to your question
about why everything is kind ofworked out like that is just I
love gardening, I love teachingit, I love doing it, I'm in awe
of it, it's never boring.
I don't know it all, I'll neverknow it all, and I'm a curious

(07:34):
gardener.
I'm just curious and I want toknow more and it just it fits
every crevice of my being ofwhat makes me tick.
I'm thankful I accidentallydiscovered that at eight years
old.
Um, cause I realized that I'mwell aware of my passion and I
want to do it all the time andI'm make a living at it too,
which is amazing that I'm notburned out, cause, you know, I

(07:57):
was always worried when I knewthat this was going to, I wasn't
worried, but I had that littlebit of fear that I'd never
wanted my passion to become myprison.
And with a lot of people whotake what they love to do and
then turn it into theiroccupation, it becomes a burnout
thing and then it turns theopposite way.
You know, I'm old enough toknow, and I've been doing this

(08:19):
long enough to know that that'snot happening with me and I'm
very thankful for that.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
But anyway to answer your question.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, it is a blessing and I know a lot of you
know there.
There there have been timesmultiple times, where people who
are, you know, successful youngadults in their in their life
you know they're post-collegeand they're in a great career
and they know that I'mpassionate about what I do they
have literally said to me man,you are so lucky that you love
what you do and you're making aliving at it.

(08:46):
I just you know.
And then they say I wish I, Iwish I knew what I was
passionate about.
You know, I wish, I wish Icould find that.
And I didn't realize thatthat's not a thing with
everybody, just because I'm soaware of it with me.
But now I am, I do realize that.
So I don't take it for granted.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, I don't think that's the norm.
I watched something with DickVan Dyke the other day and he's
still dancing at 90 somethingyears old, yes, and he said I
just got to do what I love doing.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
It's a true privilege to have that.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yes, it is.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
I agree.
So, would you say thatgardening is still your Zen
place.
Is that where you go to getthat solace or that peace of
mind?

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Nature, nature, you know I'll go broader on that and
just, I want to be hiking inthe mountains or in the woods
and, let's just put it this way,I'd rather be in the woods than
at the beach, although thebeach is nature too.
But yeah, I want to be aroundplants.
But it's funny you asked methat because in my work, you
know, a lot of it is inside, ina digital world.
But I do have a big garden andI have land and I'm gardening

(09:47):
all the time, every day.
So my start of my day is stillin the dark at 5 am and I'm
getting a lot of emailsresponded to and things like
that.
But then when it's 7 am and thesun's coming up, I head outside
because, as we know, in thesummertime in the South it's hot
and I can get about three hoursof work in outside.
To me it's play, but it's stillvery productive things that I

(10:08):
need to do anyway.
And the bonus is I can tie itall into work because everything
I'm doing, I'm learning whatI'm, I'm learning something as
I'm doing it and sharing it,like in today's podcast that I
recorded for next week.
I was thinking about what I wasgoing to talk about.
I'm not sure anything I didtoday is going to go into it,
but my zen TJ is having my handson the soil, having my hands on

(10:29):
plants or just being in theenvironment of it.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, I feel the same way.
Outdoors is my spot.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
That's why we got in this.
Outdoors is for us.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yes, not necessarily garden.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
I can't grow much.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
you know I get it.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
But outdoors it's.
That's the common denominator.
You know, if I wasn't gardening, I would just want to be
outside.
I just want to be outside.
I don't want to sit inside, Iwant to sit outside.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, I saw an interview that you did, or you
know a podcast you did that theygave you 24 hours If you could
do whatever you wanted to.
You know you said the mountainsor you'd be out in the garden.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
So Okay, good to know I'm consistent.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah, you're consistent.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
But that's how I, yeah, that's the real me.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah, In one of the episodes I was watching, I
thought I heard a peacock.
Is that?
Do you have a peacock in yourgarden?
Oh yeah, what's his storybehind that thing?

Speaker 3 (11:16):
He was just over there.
We didn't seek peacocks, wedidn't bring peacocks onto our
property, but there's a 35-acrefarm that we share a property
line with and he brings in aflock of peacocks every year.
Why I don't know, but they'repretty cool because they're all
over his property.
But invariably a few of themcome over the fence and fly up
into the trees and then comedown onto this side and a couple

(11:37):
of them stick around.
They really like it here.
And this year it's just one maleand this year it's just one
male and he never hooked up withany mate that we've been able
to determine, because he's asolo guy hanging out on our deck
every day and it's almost likehe's almost a pet peacock.
I've never wanted to feed himand give him that kind of

(11:57):
comfort, just because I want torespect the distance with nature
.
But it's as close as you canget, because he's feeding off
the cat food bowl right at ourfront door every day, twice a
day, and uh, walking around andwe pass each other within three
feet and he's not scared of meand I'm not obviously not scared
of him, but they're fun to have, I you know, albeit they're
messy, for sure, but uh, they'repretty cool to to have that

(12:20):
layer of nature on your propertyI see, I see that barn in the
background.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
You know when you're in the garden, do?
You have any animals.
You said horses at one point.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
I think yeah, Three horses, three goats depends on
the day how many chickens wehave yeah, barn cats one, one
barn cat, and then there's moreanimals turtle, dog, couple of
cats inside, a couple moreoutside.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
It's okay.
So it's not just gardening, youhave a whole thing.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah, we take advantage of the land in the
barn and the irony is this isprobably very common for a lot
of people to have horses.
That had young daughters whowanted a horse and rode and ours
did.
My older daughter did, did, butit's been a long time since
that day.
Now we've got expensive yardornaments that will probably

(13:11):
outlive me I got that going forme.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, each of our kids, I think, have been in
horseback riding.
Yeah.
So yeah, I got a matter of fact.
Last night one of the boys wasasking me like hey, dad, when we
get to the land because we have250 acres we're trying to
transition to, wow, can I have ahorse there?

Speaker 3 (13:30):
we'll see, yeah, that's a safe answer.
We'll see.
Yeah, that um little did I knowat the time.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Leasing a horse would have been a lot cheaper than
owning we're fortunate enough tohave some riding venues close,
so we may just venture to those.
Yeah, more often, that's what Irecommend it take it from.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
Take it from a guy that's been down that road okay,
I'll take that to heart.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Then okay, on this season, this season two of our
podcast, we're we're kind ofexploring what it means to live
slow, um and rewild I love.
Does that idea resonate withyou at all?

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yes, yes, live slow, especially the older we get, I
think, the more we realize, youknow, there's only so much time.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I tell you I'm about to take mysabbatical in August and I take
the whole month off away fromwork just because I need it so
desperately.
My brain is so fried by thenand I've worked so many hours
every day that it's veryrejuvenating.

(14:28):
It also helps me realize thatlife is about living, it's not
about working.
And while work is important,very important to the big
picture, at the end of the day Imean, you got to live too, or
what was the point?
So I endeavor every day to,like I mentioned a minute ago,
when I'm out three hours in themorning, gardening.

(14:48):
I'm doing it really because Ijust need that time.
That's my Zen place that wetalked about and I love it.
But those connections with yourfriends and your family and
nature, and especially thesedays, there's so much not in our
control.
Not that there ever was a timewhere so much was in our control
, but now it's just like theworld.

(15:10):
The overall ethos of what'shappening is just adding tension
and pressure and stress andweight, and I need that place,
you know, I need to slow downand turn off the noise, and
especially now when we're soconnected to our devices, it's
difficult to put that phone downand walk away.
I'm not a TV watcher, really,other than a few things a week,

(15:32):
but you know, my phone is alwayswith me, I'm like everybody
else, but I'm looking at it,trying to put it down and walk
away from it and slow down andjust appreciate the bird song.
And that's another thing I doin the mornings early.
I love to sit out with mycoffee while it's dark and the
birds are waking up.
I'm on the porch and before Istart doom scrolling, I make a

(15:55):
point of making sure that I giveattention to nature first and
prioritize that.
And so, yeah, and as far asrewilding, um gosh, yes, and you
know some people kind of pushback on that term because they
view that, as you know, wild,seems unkempt and messy and

(16:16):
stuff like that.
So, so, let's call itrenaturalizing or renaturing,
whatever, you know, it's all thesame thing, it's just the word
choice we want to use.
Renaturing, whatever you know,it's all the same thing, it's
just the word choice we want touse.
But man, oh man, talking about acritical time in our lives
where we need to do that,because there's so much
destruction and, you know,habitat loss going on every day,

(16:36):
everywhere around the world andit's not coming back because
what's being taken out is beingreplaced by things that will
permanently prevent anythingfrom regrowing in that place.
In many cases, you know, withthat goes the wildlife that
depends on what we're losingfrom habitat loss.
So we're facing, you know, massdistinction and threatened

(16:58):
species and endangered speciesand you know all of those things
and it's like what's going on,you know.
So I am a big proponent ofdoing our part, wherever we are
on the little plot of land underour domain, to re -nature,
re-wild, re-whatever, to getsome of that back, restore.
Hopefully, you know there'sstill time.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, I think there is yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
That's.
That's why we're doing this.
We still believe there's hope.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah, good.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Me too Into the rewild and I've heard you talk a
little bit about native species.
You know we've we've hadseveral podcasts on that.
Do you focus on native specieson your land?

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Absolutely.
I am not one who is going to goout there and never tell
anybody.
Well, if you're plantingnatives, it needs to be 100%
natives.
No no, I'm on board with DougTallamy's 70%.
You know, shooting for 70% ofwhat you're planting on your
land.
Make it native because they'rebeautiful, they're resilient,
they're resistant in many cases,and a lot of wildlife

(17:59):
co-evolves with that plant andmany, many insects are
specialists to certain plantsthat are only native.
They're not things that came infrom somewhere else, and so
that's important, and so we needto remember that this
environment that we live in,this ecosystem, the key word
there is system, it is a systemand everything is connected to

(18:20):
everything else.
When you take away one thing inthe chain, there's a huge
ripple effect to that that wedon't necessarily see, but it's
there, it's real.
We need to reconnect thosethings that are being broken in
the chain.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
So yes, how has that changed your approach to
gardening, when you're thinkingabout native species and animals
around?
How has that changed what youdo from day to day with that
kind of thing?
Yeah well, let's start with thevegetable garden, thinking
about native species and animalsaround.
You know, how does that changewhat you do from?
Day to day with that kind ofthing.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah, well, let's start with the vegetable garden,
because that's, I think, wheremost, where most people kind of
know me and where they've seenme the most is teaching people
how to grow food, and then Ihave a big raised bed garden
here, so there's a lot ofattention on that.
That's kind of the same fromthen to now to the future.
As far as I just you know, Igrow my own stuff from seed.
I try to get certified organicseed whenever I can, and I do

(19:09):
not use pesticides.
I rarely use fertilizer.
I'm a big compost user.
But in the past few years,something I've done that I
hadn't done up until then and Ikick myself that I've waited
somehow.
I just it took me a while toreally embrace it was really

(19:30):
bringing in a lot of nativeflowers into my vegetable garden
and what a difference it made,because I spent so much time
inside that fenced in area whenthe flowers were there along
with the vegetables.
It was like I was walking intoa different garden than anything
I'd been in in the past,because there was so much more
life.
There were so many morepollinators and butterflies and
bees and wasps and all thethings that you really want
there and you need there andyou're providing the resources

(19:51):
that they need and you're thebenefactor because you're
getting all these beautifulflowers too.
I remember telling Toby, my farmmanager, who was the one who
really pushed that through andnot that I was pushing back on
it, but she really instigated,making that happen.
I remember telling her at onepoint, shortly after we did that
I said gosh, we're never goingback.

(20:11):
This is night and daydifference and it really is.
You know the side benefits thatyou get cut flowers if you want
to take some in, and it's justfun and it's neat and you feel
good about it.
You know that's the other thingabout being mindful of the
plant choices that you make andhow you tend to your land is you
can feel really good about that.

(20:32):
You can really feel likealthough in the big picture it's
not 250 acres but it's five.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Oh, every bit counts.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, every bit counts.
And it could be a balcony on anapartment.
It really can.
It can be the container choicesin the plants you choose to put
on your balcony, on your stoopor your porch or your balcony.
It all adds up and that's theother thing.
A lot of people often thinkwell, you know, it's just me and
I'm in this small space, Idon't even have a yard.
But no, no, it's.

(21:00):
I always say the journey of athousand miles begins with the
first step and you'll get there.
But it's the collective effort.
It's not any one person doinganything.
It's one thing.
It's everybody doing something.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, we have this mantra of a wind to seal to a
thousand acres.
You can make a difference.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
I love that and that's perfect yes.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
So you talk a lot about stewardship.
Growing food gives you know away to give back by growing food
.
What does that mean to youpersonally?

Speaker 3 (21:33):
It means leading by example, and I think stewardship
should be a part of all of us,and maybe it is, but some of us
acted out more visibly thanothers, and that's fine.
However, we care to manifestthat.
But with my platform, with myaudience, with my opportunity to
reach whoever I'm reaching, Iwant them to see somebody that
has respect for nature, hascompassion for wildlife and
nature and appreciates thisplanet and all that we have from

(21:58):
it, and it's a gift and it's ablessing.
And who are we to take awayfrom that in a detrimental way?
So if any act that I do on anyday, if somebody somewhere, if I
connect with somebody that way,if they remember something or I
led them to change a behavioror do something different, I'm

(22:19):
not consciously doing somethingto try to get them to think that
way, but by living the lifethat I live the way I live it.
I'm no saint, but I'm hopingthat my actions transfer in some
way somehow to whoever that'sconnecting with, and I think,
through stewardship and respectand not being selfish, you know,
giving of your resources, yourtime, your talents, your

(22:42):
knowledge, whatever you have.
I think that's how we allshould be personally.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, has that always been your mindset or has that
changed as you've went along andworked with the land and worked
with people and in your garden?

Speaker 3 (22:59):
Thankfully, I think that's always been the case.
I think I've I've always beenvery sensitive, very empathetic,
very compassionate.
I revere nature.
I mean, I just I'm in all of it, as I already said, and uh, I
think all of that really playstogether to remind me that I'm a
speck in in a much bigger planor much bigger scene.

(23:21):
You know, you're asking mequestions I've never really
articulated before.
So this is all coming out.
Yeah, I mean, I really am thatthese pauses are like huh.
I never really put this intowords.
I'm not really sure how to saythis.
You know, it's not something Iwake up every day and say I'm
going to do this, or I like todo this, or I need to do this
and I need to connect with thisperson.

(23:42):
I just consistently live mylife the way I think I can go to
bed and put my head on thatpillow at the end of the night
and feel like there was nothingwrong with what I did today and
maybe I impacted somebody.
But it's not.
It's not necessarily conscious,although there no doubt there
are times where I intentionallyreally want to help somebody or

(24:02):
connect with somebody butgenerally it's me being me and
hopefully that is perceived in apositive way and influences
somebody sometime.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, I think that comes across in all your content
too that I've I've watched.
To be honest, I didn't knowwhen.
When we started season two, wewere kind of looking for doers,
people out there, you know,talking about it and actually
doing it, and that's how I cameacross your name.
I've never looked at you know,I've never learned to start a
garden or any of that kind ofstuff.
I mean, I grew up on a farm andwe had a garden but that's
never been a focus of ours.

(24:33):
So I came across your stuff,started watching it.
I'm like, man, he is doing it,so that was very interesting to
us.
I sent it over to TJ and he'slike, yeah, man, that is that's
good.
Wow, that's great.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Thank you.
I'm honored that you came tothat conclusion and found me to
begin with, and that's humblingto know.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, so I'm definitely have to get my uh, my
middle kiddo probably in one ofyour courses to grow stuff.
She's.
She loves growing things, she's.
We've got stuff all around myhouse, but.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
That's great, that's great, that's a sign yeah,
absolutely.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
We've got one that says he wants to be a botanist,
and so he actually, on Amazontoday, got in some little
growing containers that you cansee the roots forming on the
inside of that's amazing he's.
He's sick, so we don't know ifthat's going to stick.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
I love it.
That beats me by two years fromwhen I got started, and there's
cooler stuff to learn withthese days.
We'll embrace that.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, well, we have the, we have the land that he
spends a lot of time on too, sohe's got the opportunity to see
some things and experience it.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
You're not kidding, right?
Wow, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, I've got a question for you.
You've done the gardening thingfor so long now.
Are there still things that youdiscover in the garden that
give you awe and wonder today?
If so, maybe what's one ofthose things you've noticed
lately that you're like, well,that's profound.
Maybe it's taught you something.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
The answer is a very enthusiastic yes.
Yes, I say sometimes I lovegardening more today than
yesterday, and tomorrow I'lllove it more than today, today,
just because I've lived it forall these years and I know that
every day I learn and I'm I'mmore in awe and I'm more excited
because there's a new layerthere that didn't exist the day

(26:14):
before and and the old layersnever go away.
I'm just building on top ofthem.
So it's all there, so it'scollectively building every day,
so it's all there, so it'scollectively building every day.
And you know, I think nowwhat's extra new to me is the
flower side.
I started with flowers, I toldyou.
I started a rose garden when Iwas eight and last year I just

(26:36):
for the first time really sincethen, planted roses on an arbor
that I built on one side of myhouse and it's super exciting to
me.
You know it's kind of new.
What's old is new again.
That's been fun.
And really being more deeplyinvolved with native plants in
the past few years I've beenmuch more active as I've had a

(26:57):
little more time, or I've carvedout more time.
I've created more time to getinvolved in other things.
I've really connected in theGeorgia Native Plant Society and
they do a lot of great things,and one of the things they do
that I love participating in isnative plant rescues.
The society has connectionswith large landowners, or maybe

(27:18):
it's a corporate campus that hasmore land that eventually will
be developed, but that part isstill natural and there's a lot
of things on there thateventually will be developed,
but that part is still naturaland there's a lot of things on
there that eventually will bebulldozed over.
These rescues involve going outto properties like that future
developments and, with peoplethat know what they're looking
at, we're able to remove some ofthose plants that undoubtedly

(27:40):
will ultimately meet a nastydemise and bring them home, pot
them up, grow them out in ourown garden.
We're not allowed to sell them.
We can give them away, but it'snot intended for, you know,
enriching ourselves becausewe're digging up native plants.
But in the course of that I'velearned so much more about these
plants that are all around usor they're becoming less and

(28:01):
less around us these days, butthat's all the more reason to
save them and rescue them andplant them out again.
But it's fascinating to knowthe natural connections to the
plant and the wildlife thatmaybe depends on it, for
whatever food, shelter, habitat,whatever.
It's a new layer for me thatI'm spending more and more time
on than I've had a chance to doin the past.

(28:21):
So there's some seriouslearning going on right now and
there's a lot of native plantsto get to know that I intend to
do.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
We may have a good resource for you.
We've actually had QuailForever, pheasant Forever on our
podcast and they're really biginto preserving remnant prairies
and glades and native speciesand that kind of thing.
They've been out of my land tohelp me with that sort of thing
and kind of put in some plansfor restoring prairies and
native grasses.
Oh good, and so there's achapter in your area and you can

(28:52):
look up pheasant forever orquail forever A lot of times you
can, actually, depending on howmuch acreage you have, you can
actually get them to come outand help you with a plan and
there's even some grants thatthey can help you get to restore
some native plants and stuff onyour property it's very good
resource and they have a nativeseed store too.
So, and it's broken up by region.
Oh hey, that's great.

(29:14):
I can nerd out on native plantswith you, for sure good in my
closet there's a native packageof wildflowers that came from
quail forever that we'resupposed to put out on the land
for my wife.
That's her, that's her thing.
She's wanting to do soon.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
So very cool.
Well, you got a lot of land todo it, but that, yeah, that's so
important and I'm I'm reallylove hearing about that.
Thanks for sharing that with me, yeah what's cool to hear.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
You're still getting into new things and and learning
and progressing, you know.
I think that's important forall of us.
No, no matter what age we'regetting.
You know, I turn 40 tomorrowand I'm learning new things
every day.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, lifelong learner yeah, so I heard you
tell a story.
I mean, you used to be in thebusiness side you did accounting
, I believe and you were lookingout the window one day and it
was sleeting and you saw thisguy working down there and you
thought like you know, man, Ishould be down there.
You know you were envying thatperson that's.
I think most people would thinkthat's odd.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
To want to come out of your nice warm place to go
down there and work on someplants in the sleet.
Yeah, I was just thinking doyou think other people have, you
know, that same kind of longingand just don't know how to act
on it or not in position to acton it?

Speaker 3 (30:25):
I think they do.
I've talked to people like thatoccasionally.
Sometimes maybe it doesn't getarticulated and they think about
it a lot, but they just, youknow, don't share that and some
people do that.
I might have actually jumpedship and done that if at the
time I wasn't married and hadtwo young daughters 19 months
apart.
But I realized I had aresponsibility to make sure that

(30:51):
I was still paying the billsand putting food on the table In
the few years that I had thatsuit and tie on.
I had done well and thestandard of living had gotten to
a point that I couldn't affordto really dial that back much.
And I figured I was probablymaking more than that person
down there.
But I'm not money driven, sothat really didn't matter.
But it does take a certainamount of money to keep the food
on the table and pay themortgage and all of that.
So I knew I had to wait until anopportunity presented itself.

(31:15):
I did know that it was going tohappen.
I just didn't know what it wasgoing to be or when it was going
to happen.
But I knew in my heart ofhearts that I was destined to be
outside rather than workinginside all the time and I was
going to be working in the worldof plants and horticulture at
some point.
I couldn't see what that wasgoing to be until it found me

(31:38):
and that's when I was able topull the trigger and jump ship.
And the other part of that storyis somebody referred me to HGTV
that was creating a new showand I got long story short.
I got picked to be the hostNever been in television before,
never been in front of a camerabut I knew plants, I could talk
about gardening and I wasconfident there.
And that's really the onlyreason I succeeded was because I

(32:01):
in my mind, I was just talkingto a piece of glass, the lens,
about something I loved and knewa lot about or could talk about
.
So that's how that happened andthe timing was such that I'm
sure it was at the right time.
I mean, that set the path foreverything since then and
there's no going back.
I'll continue till I can't.
But had it happened sooner, Iwould have done it sooner, but

(32:22):
it didn't.
It was amazing that it happenedat all.
But yeah, I was the guywatching every gardening show on
HGTV there ever was.
Never missed one, but I don'tknow that I ever sat in front of
the TV saying to myself Ishould do that, I can do that, I
, you know, I I knew when Ilistened to them talking, I I
kind of knew that stuff but Inever said, oh, I want to do

(32:45):
that.
But I've enjoyed very muchhosting television, but um it's
harder than I think people think, well, just doing this podcast
for us, it's a lot to you know.
Edit and try to do promotion ofit.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
It's just, and to take on that you know the TV
side of it too, and of it's justa ton of stuff, yeah and
there's a lot of moving parts.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
There's the pre-planning, the production,
the post-production.
In my case, with my last seriesfor 12 years, growing a Greener
World, I was the executiveproducer, creator of the show,
so I was also finding thefunding, the underwriting, to
even pay to have the showcreated and maintained and
carried forward with a sizablecrew and a lot of equipment and

(33:28):
major expense.
It becomes less fun when you'readding all of those things to
your plate.
That's the stuff that peopledon't see.
But fortunately at least it wasin the category where I met
some amazing people, saw someincredible gardens and have a
lot of wonderful relationshipsand memories from it.
So, no regrets, very, veryappreciative of that opportunity

(33:50):
, everyone that came along.
So, yeah, thankfully that'sbeen a big part of my life.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
You know you've done TV podcasting, online courses.
What is the, I guess, the mostsurprising thing that you've
came across by teaching peopleat scale You're reaching such a
large audience at this point.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yes, well, that's a good question.
I think it was creating theonline courses because people
ask me all the time well, do youconsult?
Can you work with me on anhourly rate?
No, I can't, because I can't dothat for where I'm at, just
because I have so much on myplate and I reach a lot of
people in other ways.
That's one of the reasonsbefore online courses really

(34:30):
were popular, we my team got toin fact, I didn't even it wasn't
my idea to do online coursesSomebody that worked with me for
me.
She told me that she was workingon the side for me creating an
online course, and she told meabout it Beginning Gardener
Fundamentals.
It was just a rough course, andshe told me about it Beginning

(34:51):
Gardener Fundamentals.
It was just a rough,simple-based course, and she was
going to show it to me when shethought it was ready enough.
But she was going to show it tome well before it was finished,
and when she did, I'm like, ohmy gosh, I really couldn't
envision what you were talkingabout until I saw this and this
is great.
So we ran with it and that wasin 2018.
And maybe it was because shehad the time and she knew that I

(35:12):
wanted to scale, I wanted toreach more people, but I'd been
doing television for 10 years orso by them and she heard me
talking about the fact that whatwas frustrating with television
is I knew I was reaching a lotof people, but it was just one
direction, because I am talkingto the camera and then it goes
out to whoever's watching it,wherever they are, and I never

(35:35):
really I mean I got feedback.
I heard from people all thetime and it was very nice to get
letters and things like that,but there was no conversation.
You know, it was just one wayat a time.
I wanted more interaction, Iwanted more connection.
I wanted to feel like I wasreally making a difference and I
could put my finger on it.
I could peg a situation I knewmade a difference and hear from

(35:55):
them directly, and that's that'shappened through the online
courses.
From then to now, it's been thebiggest part of our business.
Even though TV dominated 20years of my life, we were still
doing other things.
It wasn't the only thing I wasdoing in my company, but it kept
me from doing full on onlinecourses and you know the podcast
more so.
So freeing up from after 20years, finally, when COVID hit

(36:19):
and we had already had a seasonlined up to really hit the road
like we had always had done,going to all these cities all
over the country, talking tothese amazing people, and I was
super excited about the firstyear of COVID when it was 2020.
We had really kind of scored alot of great episode, locations
and people, and I was superexcited about it.
Plans were already set prettymuch, and then March happens and

(36:41):
all of a sudden we're home fortwo years but we hadn't planned
on putting the show on hiatusand nor had our viewers, and so
we figured out a way to do whatwe did, but just from home, and
fortunately I have enough goingon here that we made a few shows
out of that.
But after a while I'm like we'rekind of running out of
opportunities here.
And then we'd gotten the carand we'd drive regionally to

(37:03):
places and we could do that, andthat worked for a while.
But then I realized, or alongthe way, I realized, you know,
this is really kind of nice nothaving to be on a plane every
week going somewhere with allthe crew and all the equipment
and all the expense and all thestress of getting there and
getting back and, man, I'mtelling you what that?
That's a whole world that wearson you.
I decided at the end of 2022and 12 seasons that I think I'm

(37:29):
done and not done with workingwith people and teaching people
how to guard.
Just done with the TV part ofit, because by then, people were
already moving to devices thatweren't plugged into a wall.
You know they're working ontheir phones and their iPads and
their computers to consumetheir digital content and
they're going to YouTube andthey're not necessarily looking
to PBS as much, at least in thedemographic that we felt we

(37:51):
really needed to reach.
God bless PBS and publictelevision.
I love them and you know I wantthem to be as successful as
possible.
But with what my mission was inmy world of starting growing a
greener world in 2009,.
After the first show, retiredin this third, second show I did
for three years.
I left that at the end of thethird year because I felt like

(38:13):
my work communicating withpeople about gardening was good,
but it wasn't what I wanted itto be, and that was because, as
the host of the first two shows,I was being told what to say
through a script or an outlineand I wasn't really having any
much say in the creative side.
What I knew in watching allthese other shows was nobody's

(38:33):
really talking about organicgardening and environmental
stewardship and healthyecosystems and those things that
we really need to talk aboutand connect because they're
systems.
So I took a year off in 2009and started growing a greener
world.
We debuted in 2010.
That was purposeful, I mean.
I really felt like this isreally what I was meant to do

(38:54):
and the message I needed to getout there.
But so now that message hasn'tchanged and in fact, it's more
that than ever, because of wherewe're at today, than we were
back then.
We left television becausetelevision is really a small
percentage of the masses now asfar as how content is consumed
and, frankly, public televisiondemographic draws an older

(39:15):
audience and we really wanted toresonate with the up and comers
who could carry the torch andbe me or be a messenger.
I just call myself a messengerbe a messenger to others who
will live well past when I'm nothere, and that's what I wanted
to do and want to do and willcontinue to do for as long as I

(39:37):
can, so that we scale this thing.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Back to your question .
Yeah, and when I've watchedHGTV and things, they don't go
deep on a subject Usually theykind of like hit it and then
move on, so like if you wantedto really dive into composting
or something like that, likeyou're not going to get the
course there, you're going tohave to get one of your courses
or something you know somethinga lot deeper to do that you know
what.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
That is a really good point.
We wanted to be edutainment,educational and entertaining.
But I did not want to just beentertaining at all, because
where's the value in that?
And like the second show we did, we toured public gardens all
over the country and it wasreally great to talk to the head
horticulturalist for the show,see the pretty plants, talk
about the garden.
And that was the show.

(40:19):
And there was a lot ofinformation in those 30 minutes
but it still, to me, was flatand surface only.
It just wasn't going to where Ineeded it to go.
Think about what we're watchingtoday.
All it is is scene cut, scenecut, scene cut.
You know there's a scene for asecond to three seconds.
I don't know if you know this,but the mandate or pretty much

(40:42):
the status quo for any show thatyou're watching today on any of
these HDTVs Food Network, youname it.
Count how many scene cuts thereare in a show and you'll lose
count within a minute, becausethere's already been 20 at least
.
That's because our attentionspans are so short and they're

(41:02):
just trying to hold yourattention with color and change
and you know nothing wrong withthat.
It's just not what I'm doingthis for.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, you see that when you're trying to do reels
and things like that, peoplewatch a reel for three seconds
and you, you know, did 30seconds.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
I mean they just flip , flip, flip, if it's not just
way out there, people aren'tgoing to stop really, so it's
hard to get your message outthere and grab the people that
you want and you know you'rebringing up such good points,
because that's a real bone ofcontention with me and I and I
do resent it there's thatpeacock, I'm looking at it,
going by.
Um, I resent the fact that insome ways, I'm supposed to mold

(41:42):
how I want to teach and how Iwant to create content to the
attention span of three secondsbefore somebody decides whether
I'm worth watching or not.
Because I'm not, yeah, I'llthrow.
Okay, I got to throw a hook outthere in the first five seconds
to get you to stick around.
But I have a lot to say and I'mnot interested in giving you a
30 second short and calling it aday.

(42:04):
I want you to really know thisstuff and if that's for you,
great hang around.
I have a lot to teach you.
But if that's for you, greathang around.
I'll.
I have a lot to teach you.
But if if that's not for you,then okay.
That's why I'm not on Tik TOKand nothing wrong with it and I
Tik TOK feeds come into myInstagram reel and there's some
cool stuff there, but I alsohave too many things to keep up
with and adding one more bigplatform that I need to look at

(42:27):
and respond to.
I can't take.
I can't add that to my plate,but the point is, why does
everything have to be so quick?
Why can't we sit down and letit soak in?
Why can't we have some pausebetween the speaking and just
have some breaths and givepeople something that sticks

(42:48):
with them and makes them want tocome back?
You know that's not everybodyand it's probably less people
than ever, thanks to how societyhas molded us in this
generation in the past.
I do it, but it's not my mainthing.
It's maybe to get them to becurious, to want to know more
and then find out that, hey,that long form stuff is pretty

(43:10):
cool and I'm learning a lot fromit.
There's no way in 30 seconds Ican teach you what you really
need to know.
To be a better, smarter, moreconfident gardener, you need to
know the why do behind the howto.
Yeah, there's a zillion videosthat here's how you make a done
30 seconds.
It's the difference between acook and a chef.

(43:32):
If you just follow a recipe,nothing wrong with that.
You make a great meal.
By following that recipe, youmake the dish and then I come in
I say, well, what seasoningsdid you use and why did you use
that and that and not that, oryou used oil instead of butter
Was there a reason for that?
Or the olive oil instead of thevegetable oil, or you know, you

(43:54):
get my point.
It's like well, I don't know,that's just because the recipe
said it.
Well, a chef is someone that canwalk into any house, any place,
with a pantry and a stove, or arestaurant, and he can go to
the pantry and just pull thingsout because he knows what he's
going to make, and she, he, she,whoever, and make an incredible

(44:15):
meal because they understandhow things work together.
That's the why do part, the howdo.
That's a non-issue.
But you're not going to reallylearn how to advance to the next
level, or why or how you can dothe next thing until you know
why those things work to get tothe next thing.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, total sense to me.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah, so I'm big on the why do part of it, and that
takes time.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
That might take us back to that living slower.
Yeah, you know, yes, got tolive slower.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Smell the roses.
Stop and smell the roses.
Why be in such a hurry?
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, the way we live nowadays everything's fast
paced.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
But that's kind of why we, you know, dove into the
podcast is get people to slowdown, enjoy life a little bit.
I mean, we all got jobs andthings to do and.
But if you don't slow down,like why are you doing it?
Like what's the purpose?
Yeah, in doing a podcast.
Honestly, I'm not going to sitand watch a podcast for an hour
probably, but I'm going tolisten to it.
I listen to a lot of hour-longpodcasts, guess when, when I'm
gardening, and that works reallywell for me.
I'm slowing down but I'm alsolearning at the same time.
I think it's a greatcombination.
I think podcast audio, audio isthe best medium for learning

(45:34):
and developing these intimaterelationships with your audience
, because they hear your voiceand, based on what you're saying
, it causes them to need tovisualize that internally and
however they see what you'resaying when they're watching
that, they're not really havingto think on how to visualize,
they're just seeing it.
So it's, it's just.
I don't think that it soundscounterintuitive, but I don't

(45:56):
think that impression sticks asmuch as listening and then
forming that impression in yourbrain and then you've got it.
Yeah, I'm kind of getting uphere now but no, no, I think
that's good.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
I think you know, I've talked to some younger
people lately, though, who whoreally feel like they need the
video portion of the podcast andstuff, so I'm not sure that
that's not lost on some of usover the age of 35 or whatever.
You know, yeah, but there'ssome imagination that has to
play out there for you to tolisten to audio, I think.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yeah, I think you can think deeper on things when you
don't have video in front ofyou, cause you, like you said,
you're just kind of you're,you're trying to, you know, mull
it over in your mind whileyou're listening to it, and if
you're watching it, it'ssomething else distracting you.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Absolutely.
It's like I'd rather maybe readthe book before I see see the
movie of that book.
I wouldn't want to watch themovie and then read the book,
because if I watch the movie thecharacters are already in my
head because I've seen them andI picture the house they're in
and all of that.
I want to make my mind see thatrather than have it shown to me

(47:03):
?

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, I have not thought about that.
That's a really cool point ofview.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
So, all the things you do, what are you hoping to
carry forward with your work forthe next generation?
First of all, the world needsmore gardeners.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
But it's more than that, because for me, gardening
is part of a bigger picture andit goes back to the system, it
goes back to the stewardship, itgoes back to care of our and
love of our environment andappreciation for nature and
respect for it and reverence forit, and realizing that this
world is not getting any biggerand we are facing new threats

(47:36):
every day and we individuallycan't stay silent or still and
going forward, we need toeducate ourselves on what we can
do, whatever that is to theindividual and how they see
their role in that.
Whatever that is, we alreadytalked about how it all adds up
and we can't get so busy thatthat doesn't get noticed.

(47:59):
I need to learn who said thisquote, because I love it.
It's this, and then I'llexplain what I mean.
It's the losses we notice, it'sthe diminishment we don't see,
and maybe you already get this.
But for those who are wondering,like I did initially, by
hearing that here in Atlantawhen I was young years ago, I
used to see monarchs around allthe time and they're beautiful

(48:22):
and we always notice them, butit's like anything else.
When you see them frequently,you don't really stop and go oh,
look at that.
You know it's becomes morecommon.
So it's like you just go aboutyour business while appreciating
them, but you don't reallydwell on it.
Well, in my case with with theMonarchs, um, I didn't notice

(48:43):
that each year since the last 20years or so I've seen fewer and
fewer and fewer.
Until recently, in the past 13years that I've been on this
property, I remember maybe thefirst year seeing a few.
And then a few years later, Istarted thinking, wait a minute,
when was the last time I saw aMonarch?
And then, when one finallyshowed up, it's like, oh, my
gosh, there's one, wow, you know.
And then now I am 13 yearslater and I it's like, wow, I'll

(49:07):
be lucky if I see one.
So, anyway, that's noticing thelosses, thinking back to 13
years ago and like, oh, I usedto see a few and God you know I
had thought about it, but now Ionly see one.
So that speaks to me in a loudway.
But you don't notice that in inthe first year maybe there was
a lot.
In the next year you didn'tnotice that it was just maybe a
few less.
In the next year, just a fewless, because you can't see the

(49:31):
diminishment as much as you cansee a loss.
A loss is this point comparedto this point, whereas
diminishment is this point andthis point, and then this point
and this point.
So it's just close togethersubtle, gradual changes over
time, but the losses are point Ato point Z and nothing in
between.
All of a sudden, oh my God,what happened?
Where did they go?
I don't want people to losesight of the fact that the

(49:55):
diminishment matters and we needto stop the diminishment
because those periods connectedto each other that involve
diminishment ends up with theloss, and we've got to stop that
.
We've got to break that.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
When we lose those things, I think we're losing a
piece of ourselves too.
We're not just losing a speciesor something like that.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Yeah, yeah, there was tons of monarchs where we grew
up, growing up, and then youknow you'll see a few out in the
yard sometimes now, but notreally.
So we have milkweed, you know,we plant and those kinds of
things and you get morebutterflies, but that's
definitely not the same.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Well, yeah, no-transcript.

(50:57):
They're massive losses recentlyand they're tying it back to
neonicotinoids and you know,that's the kind of stuff that I
don't know how we fix it really.
But we can't assume that wecan't fix it.
You know we can't just throwour hands up and say, oh well,
you know, too bad for the bees.
No, we can't do that.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
So I think it's one of those front porch gardens at
a time is how we fix it you know, Yep.
So for those people who aremaybe struggling to slow down
and see those diminishes, whatadvice would you give to foster
that connection that allows usto see those things more clearly
?
I know slowing down but like,how do we do that, you think?

Speaker 3 (51:36):
I think we make them aware of some real life
diminishment cases.
You know, I think we use theMonarch story or whatever it is
that you want to bats, orthere's a million of them out
there.
But first of all, you need toput context to it and give them
real life situations, ratherthan them trying to imagine
something that really hasn'thappened yet.
Give them the facts of this andthis and they're going oh my

(52:00):
gosh, you're right.
And if it can happen to that,the polar bears or whatever I
mean there's so many examplesSay, look, it can happen to
these bumblebees that we'relooking at right now in our
garden and it is happening.
Because here's why it'shappening.
And if you want to be part ofthe solution rather than part of
the problem, we need to takeaction and figure out what we

(52:20):
can do, because don't assumethat everything that you see
today is going to be heretomorrow, because it's not and
it's only getting worse, andthat those are the kind of
things not in a threatening wayor a righteous way, but, uh,
educating and encouraging peoplethrough positive action.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
You know, we just need to do that yeah yeah, we're
not trying to fear monger, no,you know um, but there's there's
some real things going on.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
We need to be observant of those things, I
think yeah, I think that tiesback into health too, because,
like, healthy people arediminishing, so you get back
into the gardening and morenatural living.
It's hard to see the theprogression of you know people's
health declining, but it'sdefinitely there when we look
back.
We can, like you said with themonarchs.

(53:06):
You look back and like you'rewhoa, like diabetes is through
the roof, you know all thesethings, so it plays into all
kinds of parts of our livesthere.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
It does.
And that's going to againanother great point, because
we're becoming more and moresedentary, because we have we're
fixed to our devices andeverything we need we can access
from our chair inside ourclimate-controlled house.
So why do we even need to getoutside?
But when that connectionhappens, you know, and for those

(53:38):
who used to be outside, nowthey've just found the
convenience of being inside morecomfortable Well, we need to
figure out a way to get themback outside and find something
that they can enjoy or connectto.
Like you know, growing, like thefreshness of homegrown food,
whatever it is.
But the sedentary life and thepoor diets from not eating
healthy, homegrown, organicallygrown food it's killing us, it

(54:00):
is.
I maintain an active life but,aside from working out, my Apple
Watch is telling me how manysteps I take and how much
exercise and calories I burn ina day, and on those days I'm not
working out.
I've still had a great workoutthroughout the day and I haven't
done anything that anybody elsecouldn't do.
It's just walking around, youknow, doing stuff.
There's not enough of thatanymore and you know that's a

(54:23):
good point.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
We're trying to get there.
We're not there yet, but we'reon the road with you.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yeah, we're trying to get there, we're not there yet
but we're, we're on the, we'reon the road with you.
Yeah, good, good, good, we'reon the journey.
You know, sometimes you lookback and you're like we're
talking about get outside allthe time.
But here I am, you know, stuckin the house working on the
podcast or working on whatever.
So you feel a littlehypocritical.
But you know, we know we needto be out there doing that thing
and you know this, we know weneed to be out there doing that
thing and this is just the workyou got to do to hopefully get

(54:50):
more people on board to do it.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Well, there's this thing I say it's called the
dirty 30.
And I wouldn't put working onyour podcast into that 30%.
But for everything we love todo, there's 30% of it we really
don't want to do.
And that's the dirty 30 part.
30% of what we do allows us todo the 70% we love to do.
That's a universal truth.

(55:13):
If you put podcasting into that, so be it.
Anyway, that's that's what Ithink of when you say that, yeah
, we get joy out of this.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
It's just some of the lay work that comes along with
it.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
Oh yeah, I love podcasting.
I mean, we've this is um.
The episode we come out withnext week is 427 consecutive
weekly episodes, so that's um.
I can't do the math on theepisode we come out with next
week is 427 consecutive weeklyepisodes, wow.
So that's I can't do the mathon that right off the bat, but
that's over eight years, maybeover nine, something like that.
But anyway, we don't have anyplans on stopping.
In fact we've talked aboutdoing a second podcast, but then

(55:44):
we kind of put the realitycheck on that and that may not
happen, but for now anyway.
But it's a great medium and itreaches a lot of people.
We've got probably 13 milliondownloads so far and that adds
up, you know and every one ofthose podcast episodes has some
educational value in it yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
So, and that's kind of how we're thinking.
You know we don't have near,you know anywhere close to the
realm with those downloads, butjust a single download.
And then somebody talks aboutit and they may never even watch
the podcast, but at leastthey'll get some information
about you.
Know what we've talked aboutand you know, maybe plant that
seed in their head and, you know, do something about it.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
So, yeah, for sure, and you're in your second season
.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Great yeah.
So you're building momentum andyou've passed the hurdle of the
first seven episodes of thefirst year.
When they call that pod fading,when, um, you know people start
a podcast majority of peoplethat start them don't make it
past the seventh episode, but ifyou do, that's a very good sign
that you've got a good chanceof maintaining.
You know, continuing to growgood for you and through the

(56:46):
context you're going to make thefollowers, you're getting the
connections that are going tohappen.
The community you're going tobuild it's uh, it only gets
better.
It really does that'd be good.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Yeah, we're, we're trying.
It's just, you know, got to putthe legwork in.
So, listen, if it were easy,everybody would be doing it, and
it's.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
It's not easy, it's worth it.
Anything worth having is worthworking for.
So just keep that in mind.
When you get in that Dirty 30part and you don't love that
moment, just remember it's worthit.
Do my best, yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
I don't have anything else, unless TJ does, but we
really appreciate you coming on.
I started really digging intoyour stuff.
I'm like my gosh, he's superbusy.
I don't know if we can give 10minutes for him, but we really
appreciate your time andthankful for it, and I'll
definitely be following all yourstuff.
Well, thank you.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
A late Friday afternoon chat is a great time
for this sort of thing and Iwould have done it whenever.
But yeah, no, thank you for theinvitation of being here and I
really enjoyed the conversation.
You asked some great questions,got me to think and articulate
some things I've never probablyever said before.
So thank you for stimulatingthat and the best of luck with

(57:59):
you guys.
Let me know if you needanything for me in any way.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Be happy to help.
We'll let you know when we dropthe episode.
It should be a couple weeksprobably.
Yeah, but yeah, we reallyappreciate it.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
You got it.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Thanks for the wisdom .
You're welcome.
I've got a few years aheadbehind you, or?

Speaker 1 (58:19):
ahead of you or whatever, but happy to share it.
We appreciate it, Joe.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
You got it, you guys take care, all right.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
You have a good one, you too, bye.
Hey and thanks for joining usthis week.
We hope this episode inspiresyou to find time to get outside,
live slow and rewild a little.
If you liked what you heardtoday, be sure to share it with
someone.
That's the best way to help usget the word out.