May 18, 2025 • 46 mins
Have you ever wondered what it takes to help people fall in love with the outdoors? Sam Files, photographer and park interpreter at Pinnacle Mountain State Park, offers a fascinating glimpse into this world through his unique lens.
Growing up glued to Animal Planet and spending his childhood exploring nature, Sam found his calling in park interpretation—connecting visitors with Arkansas's natural wonders. His dual passions for education and photography create a powerful combination for inspiring conservation. "If you can invoke feelings in someone through a photograph, you can capture their heart. You can give them a reason to want to protect that," Sam explains, highlighting photography's crucial role in environmental stewardship.
Throughout our conversation, Sam debunks common misconceptions about outdoor photography, emphasizing that expensive gear isn't necessary for impactful images. "The phones in your pocket have a more powerful camera than what National Geographic photographers were using fifteen years ago," he points out. His advice focuses instead on intentional framing: knowing your subject and how everything else in the frame can enhance it.
Beyond photography, Sam reveals the hidden treasures of Pinnacle Mountain State Park—a 2,600-acre wilderness with five mountains, two rivers, and approximately 30 miles of biking trails that most visitors never discover. From the peaceful East Quarry Trail with its spectacular overlook to the unexpected wildlife like collared lizards and American eels, the park offers far more than its famous summit.
Perhaps most valuable is Sam's closing message to those hesitant to explore the outdoors: "Don't be afraid to get out and explore. So many people are held back because it's unknown." He recommends starting with guided experiences at state parks, building confidence with experts who can keep you safe while introducing you to nature's wonders. It's a gentle reminder that the natural world is waiting—no matter your experience level—with its transformative power just one trail away.
To start your own outdoor journey visit Sam or one of the many other park interpreters at your nearest Arkansas State Parks.
Follow Sam's photography journey on Instagram and discover how the marriage of art and education can inspire us all to venture outside.
To see some of Sam's photos and connect with him go to: https://www.instagram.com/samfiles/
Pinnacle Mountain State Park: https://www.arkansasstateparks.com/parks/pinnacle-mountain-state-park
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What is the Natural Obsession Podcast all about?
Growing up, we all had those moments in nature that stuck with us—whether it was a quiet walk in the woods or a grand adventure. On Natural Obsession, it’s our desire to bring those moments to life. As we talk to people from all walks of life we will learn how they fell in love with the outdoors, the different ways they enjoy it today, and explore how we can work together to ensure these spaces are around for years to come. It’s all about sharing memories from the outdoors and ensuring future generations can make their own.
To find out more about Natural Obsession and hosts, Daniel Emison and TJ Virden, visit our website at https://www.natob.co/.
If you have questions about episodes or have guest recommendations please email us at info@natob.co.
Follow us on social media to keep up with upcoming guests and episode info:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
TJ (00:04):
If you could give a message to people who are listening to
get them into the outdoors, whatwould it be?
Sam (00:08):
Don't be afraid to get out and explore.
So many people are held backbecause it's unknown.
Well, there could be snakes,there could be spiders, there
could be yeah, there could be,but don't be afraid of that.
If you want to start somewheresmall, come to a state park, go
on a guided hike with an expertand can tell you everything that
you're experiencing.
That can keep you safe whileyou're doing it.
Start small like that and buildyour way up to as far as you
(00:30):
want to go, but don't let thefear of the unknown keep you
from exploring an amazing world.
Daniel (00:39):
Hey everyone and welcome back to Natural Obsession.
Today we're joined in thestudio by Sam Files photographer
, park interpreter and afamiliar face out of Pinnacle
Mountain State Park.
Sam has a unique perspective onthe outdoors, spending his days
helping visitors connect withnature and capturing a lot of it
through his camera lens.
We'll talk about what it's liketo work in one of Arkansas'
most iconic parks, storiesbehind his favorite shots and
(01:00):
what draws him back outside dayafter day.
And what draws him back outsideday after day.
This is Daniel and TJ withNatural Obsession Podcast.
We've got Sam on today withnatural photography and art
interpreter and just give us alittle idea about what that
means.
Sam (01:23):
So as a photographer, I shoot landscapes, weddings,
senior photos, I run film,developing workshops.
I'm just kind of all over inthe field and in the hobby and
in the profession of photographyand I dabble in it all.
And then, as a park interpreter, I work for state parks.
I work out at Pinnacle Mountainin Little Rock.
My job is to connect peoplewith outdoors.
Yeah, that's awesome.
TJ (01:41):
So did it start as a hobby first, or did it start as a job,
getting into the outdoors?
Sam (01:46):
It started as a passion when I was growing up.
I grew up glued to AnimalPlanet you know, all the same.
Yeah, Steve Irwin Jeff Corwinyou know, all those folks, the
Krat brothers back on Zabuma Fu,you know, and so.
And then my parents, my parents, liked the outdoors boomafu,
(02:06):
you know, and so.
And then my parents, my parents, liked the outdoors.
They recognized that I likedthe outdoors a lot more than
them, but they afforded me a lotof opportunities to be outside,
to play outside, get outside,go camping, go hiking.
So I appreciate them for thattoo, because they really helped
mold and shape that as well andso kind of have always pursued
that passion and when I got oldenough to start entering the
career field or looking atcareers, I started looking at
okay, well, I want to work forthe National Park Service or the
(02:28):
Forest Service or state parks.
What career is there for me inoutdoor education and connecting
people to the outdoors andbeing a guide for the outdoors,
an educator for the outdoors,all of it.
I discovered parkinterpretation and knew right.
Then I was like that's exactlywhat I'm looking for yeah, yeah,
awesome.
Daniel (02:47):
I had to look it up because I didn't know exactly
what that was as a parkinterpreter, so pretty cool yeah
you were talking about, yourparents afforded you a lot more
opportunities to get into thatkind of thing.
TJ (02:57):
Kind of expound on that for me, because he's got three kids.
I've got five kids, so I'd kindof like to know what specific
things they did that maybe ledto you getting an education in
the parks and rec or even justas a kid hanging out.
What were some of the thingsthat you think really pointed
you to that career and the lovefor the outdoors?
Sam (03:16):
Growing up as a young kid.
I can still remember us goingcamping.
I was born in North Carolina.
We lived in the coastal plains,not quite the Outer Banks but
about an hour from the shore.
I can remember us when I wasborn in North Carolina.
We lived in the coastal plains,not quite the Outer Banks but
about an hour from the shore.
I can remember us when stuffthat I caught we caught turtles
(03:37):
and lizards and snakes, We'dhave stuff for like a whole
summer.
They'd put up with myshenanigans dragging stuff to
the house.
Daniel (03:50):
Yeah, that's awesome.
TJ (03:51):
As you got older and you were starting looking for career
paths, did they take you tolike any career fairs and stuff
like that?
Did you make it to any of thatkind of stuff with your parents
or in school?
Sam (04:00):
In school yeah, it was through my parents as well.
My school In school yeah, itwas through my parents as well.
My parents helped set it up.
I had a class in the eighthgrade called career orientation
and it was where we werestarting to look at career
fields and look at options.
So as we went into high schoolwe could kind of start picking
our paths and knowing that Iwanted to do something in the
outdoors, something witheducation, something with
(04:21):
conservation, conservation myparents called around to
different state parks and askedif I could job shadow for a day
or two for part of that class.
So I ended up shadowing aninterpreter at lake dardanelle
in russellville.
So my parents drove me up torussellville, they helped set
all that up and I shadowed theirinterpreter for like two days
(04:43):
and this is what I want to doright here Yep oh yeah, yep.
Daniel (04:47):
Yeah, that's a neat experience there.
So how long did it take to getthe degree?
What is the degree, I guess, todo that?
Sam (04:54):
It's changed a little bit since I went through school.
I went to Arkansas TechUniversity in Russellville
through their Parks and Recprogram and that program has
changed and restructured alittle bit since I went through
it a decade ago.
But what I got was a bachelor'sof science in recreation and
park administration and thenunder that there were five
(05:15):
emphasis and my emphasis wasinterpretation, so kind of a
mouthful.
Daniel (05:20):
Yeah.
Sam (05:20):
And then I have an associates in history and I took
a bunch of museum and archiveclasses under that.
Daniel (05:25):
That was kind of the emphasis for that historic
preservation and conservationyeah, that's, that's,
interesting yep, so thephotography and the
interpretation goes pretty handin hand yeah yeah, so what is
one of the craziest momentsyou've captured on camera at one
of the state parks that you doanything?
Sam (05:44):
stick out to you the eclipse yeah last year I didn't
shoot that on still photo, soanything that I take on the
clock while at work belongs tothe state.
I can't sell work, I can'tpromote my work if I'm taking it
while on the clock.
Yeah, so there's an overlapthere in what pro work I'm doing
(06:05):
at the parks that I work at,but I go to a lot of parks on my
days off.
Now the eclipse that's probablythe coolest thing I've captured
while at work.
I took phone footage, I filmedit.
I had the honor and theblessing of drawing the long
stick on our safety and planningfor that event and got to be on
(06:26):
top of the mountain with thecrowds for that.
That's pretty neat.
TJ (06:30):
We set up a whole weekend around the eclipse at our
property in Leslie, arkansasCool.
We actually had a guy from NASAand he gave us this long
explanation and stuff.
He actually had a moment.
While we were on the mountainwe had a bunch of buzzards that
were roosted behind us and asthe eclipse ended they all came
off like for the roost and he'snever seen that with birds
(06:50):
before, and so that was a coolmoment for us.
Yeah, we had like 30, 40 peoplethere.
Sam (06:54):
I was checking it out on our land Up on Pinnacle we had
about 450.
Wow.
TJ (06:59):
Yeah, I imagine that's a pretty cool place to watch it
from.
Sam (07:01):
It was amazing.
We got to see the shadow comeacross the Arkansas River Valley
to us as it was coming acrossthe landscape and there was a
lot of different nationalities,represented a lot of different
age groups, a lot of differentstates, and so we were all just
sitting and talking, and thenalso all the peaks around us
were covered in people.
So there was a lot ofcamaraderies.
(07:21):
Everyone's looking throughtheir binoculars and you can see
everyone waving back way overthere on East Mountain and over
at Rattlesnake Ridge, andthey're all shouting back and
forth and that's really cool.
TJ (07:30):
A lot of cheering.
Yeah, that's one thing thatwe've talked a little bit about.
Outdoors is something that tiespeople together.
Yeah, that's cool to hear apractical story of that.
Sam (07:39):
Yeah, Long story for a short question but that's
probably one of the coolestthings I've caught at the park
or gotten to witness anddocument.
TJ (07:47):
Yeah, so that sounds like there was some prep that went
into that, though.
Oh yeah, yeah, months ingeneral.
Are you a lazy photographer ordo you have to work for your
photos?
Do you go out and prep, you'rethere at five o'clock in the
morning, before daylight, andyou look for that perfect shot,
or you just happen to phone themmost of the time.
Sam (08:06):
It depends.
TJ (08:07):
Yeah.
Sam (08:07):
I think I'm meticulous and no matter how meticulous I am,
it doesn't always, it never willgo like I plan and that's OK.
And I think some of the bestmoments that I've captured and
some of my favorite moments thatI've captured have been just in
the moment.
Oh, let me turn and shoot thisreal quick, with no prior
(08:29):
thought or planning to it.
I think that's made for some ofthe best moments that I've
captured.
But yeah, I do tend tooverthink and over plan things a
lot, so there's a lot of timeswhere I'll spend like months
planning for a single shot totake and everything.
TJ (08:39):
I totally get the nothing going to plan.
It seems like I'm the same waywhen it comes to hunting.
You can prep and plan and knowthat this spot's going to
produce and it doesn't.
It's that one time when you gotoff work late and you ran out
there and set in the deer standthat you're going to kill the
bigger buck and that kind ofthing.
So yeah I can.
Daniel (08:56):
I can totally empathize with that yeah, I dabbled in
photography a little bit and Iwould try to get this perfect
shot and like it just never wentright.
So sometimes I lost a littlebit of the joy in outdoors
because I was too focused on thetrying to get the shot.
But sometimes you get a goodshot by just having it with you
and see something and do it andturns out great.
TJ (09:15):
I'm just too dumb.
There's too many settings forme shutter, speed and all the
other things just get me there'san auto setting, yeah and it
never works for me.
I'm the guy who uses the autosetting and still gets it wrong,
so I don't know how that works,but it does for some reason.
Sam (09:28):
We'll get you on a camera.
We'll get you Okay.
We'll get you learned.
I'll take you up on that Allright, I've got a camera, come
on.
Daniel (09:45):
I need to spend a few days or just kind of worked into
it.
Sam (09:49):
I don't know.
So my start to photography camein high school.
I took a photography classduring my final year, my senior
year, just as an easy class, Iwouldn't have to do a lot of
homework in or care about thatmuch, and, oops, fell in love
with it.
So there's a lot of like justbeing challenged in my
assignments in that class.
(10:10):
And I had a next door neighborand a friend of mine that was
also in that class and alreadyliked photography before, and so
we started doing our classprojects together and while we
were hanging out anyways causehe lived directly across the
street so we were always hangingout but it was like, oh man, we
can like actually spend sometime and have fun with these
(10:32):
assignments.
And we started doing that andquickly, I think, outgrew what
the teacher was even expectingor wanting to do with it, and so
he was giving us extra stuffjust to like push us further and
further and had a lot of fun.
And then when I went off tocollege, I've had all those
skills and knowledge and thatpassion for it, but I didn't
have a camera because I wasusing the school cameras.
So my grandpa actually boughtme a camera I think it was my
(10:54):
grandparents and my parents.
They, some of them, yeah somechipped in and bought me a
camera, little nikon d3200 yeah,walmart dslr first one.
I used that thing for like eightyears Great camera.
Yeah, it's a great camera andjust continued my passion from
there Landscape, I think justcame with my other passions
already.
It's like oh, I'm getting intophotography, I'm liking
(11:16):
photography, and oh, I'm alwaysbackpacking.
I'm always camping.
Any day that I'm free, I'mgoing outdoors and I'm always
backpacking, I'm always camping.
Any day that I'm free, I'mgoing outdoors.
And so I was bringing my camerawith me.
So those two worlds combined inthe outdoors and in the
landscape photography world.
So I don't think it was aspecific photo or a specific
event that caused me to pursuelandscape photography.
(11:37):
I think it was just more myother passions kind of dragging
photography into it.
Daniel (11:41):
This is just a curious question for me.
I do a lot of hiking andbackpacking stuff.
I did it with my father-in-lawand I would try to bring my
camera stuff, and that's just awhole another beast to bring all
that stuff with you, like,which lens am I needing?
Like you can try to bring youroverall lens, but it just
becomes a lot of stuff to carryaround.
You just do it, yeah.
Sam (12:00):
It's unfortunate because, yeah, I have a cinder block of a
camera right now.
And then with film.
If I'm shooting film, I've gotextra stuff with me too.
It just gave me an excuse to goultra light on everything else.
I can't get the base weightdown on the camera, so I'm going
to have to get that lightersleeping bag.
I'm going to have to get thatlighter tent.
Daniel (12:17):
It gets expensive doing that.
Yeah, I know it's unfortunate.
Sam (12:38):
Yeah, every hour starts the solution that I've done over
the long term.
When I go to look at the nextpiece of gear, or upgrading a
piece of gear or replacing apiece of gear that's worn out, I
have to be more intentionalabout.
Ok, let me actually startlooking at what the ult.
I'm going backpacking.
I'm going to plan all theplaces there that I can get good
shots.
I'm going to try and go in theweather.
I try and revolve my outdoorhobbies around the photography,
so usually that means I can bepretty mission minded.
I'm not going to throw in likefive or six lenses and okay, I'm
just going to plan foreverything.
(12:59):
That's where that meticulous,that planning that we were
talking about earlier comes in.
I'll usually, if I'mbackpacking, only take a 50
millimeter.
I'm not going to take a zoom atall.
If I'm backpacking, I'm justgoing to take the one prime with
the one body, and then I have aUSB charger for my phone, my
GPS, and I can charge the camerawith it.
And so I can if I need to.
(13:21):
If I run out of battery forsome reason, I can do that, but
my camera battery usually lastsa long time, so I can go on a
three or four day trip, and aslong as I'm not just snapping
away, I'll be fine yeah.
TJ (13:31):
So you were saying that photography is the thing that
gets you out there.
What are the other things thatyou're doing in the outdoors
that you enjoy?
Sam (13:39):
Backpacking, camping, hiking in general.
I love to rock climb.
I like to float, so the kayakpaddle, I like to paddle.
Yeah, not a whitewater guy, no,slow mover, I like moving water
, I don't like flat water thatmuch.
Yeah, if I'm on a lake I'mgoing to get bored pretty quick,
but no, I don't have the skillor the time or the budget to get
(14:02):
into the whitewater stuff.
TJ (14:04):
Yeah, we didn't either, but growing up we were like on the
Mulberry Illinois Bayou, buffalo, big Piney, all those kind of
things.
We didn't have the budget forit either.
We actually had recreationalkayaks, but we were doing all
those floats.
It's not like being in Coloradoor somewhere where you got
level fives, although we do havethat at Costa Tote Costa.
Sam (14:21):
Tote yeah.
TJ (14:22):
Yeah, we never made it that far, though.
It was always like I thinkMulberry was a three and a half,
so we caught a littlewhitewater in those kayaks.
That was a lot of fun on abudget.
Yeah, cool.
A single life afforded us theopportunity to be out more and
have a lot more gear for thatkind of thing.
Yeah, now that we're marriedand we've got kids to stick
(14:44):
around.
Yeah, more risk.
Sam (14:45):
More risk and you kind of got to pick and choose which
ones you afford the time to.
TJ (14:49):
Yeah, my time outdoors is a little more tame than what it
used to be, if anything.
Sam (14:54):
Get those kids rock climbing.
Yeah, yeah, I've never rockclimbed.
Daniel (14:57):
It's interest me, but I've just never.
It seems like a lot to get into.
Sam (15:01):
It's fun.
Daniel (15:02):
Yeah.
Sam (15:02):
You've got the bouldering gym here in Conway.
They do a membership and it'sjust a keypad on the door.
You can go any time of day ornight, so whenever your schedule
works, and it's a lot of fun.
TJ (15:12):
Seems like it would be good, fun exercise.
There's not a lot of exercisethat I would say.
Daniel (15:15):
I just enjoy but I think I could get into that if my
body wasn't built for Japanesewrestling sports.
There you go.
That's funny.
So is there any specific shotyou're trying to get, like
you've dreamed of getting in,just working toward it or
anything anywhere you want to goto really get a perfect shot
(15:36):
there's one I've been working onfor 10 years.
Sam (15:38):
It's not necessarily a dream one, but it's like it's a
project that I started and Ireally want to finish.
Have you ever been to the OldMill in North Little Rock?
TJ (15:45):
Yeah, it's been a lot more than I have.
Yeah, it's been a lot.
Sam (15:47):
Well, back in college with that D3200, I got a beautiful
photo of it in the spring withall the spring flowers and stuff
there.
And then a few years later Iwas there.
My family lives in Sherwood,north Little Rock, so I can
drive over there in like fiveminutes.
So I spent a lot of time overthere.
But there was one time in thefall I just happened to be over
there driving past.
(16:08):
I had my camera and I saw itwas just in perfect color so I
stopped.
I found that old photo on myphone.
I got to that same spot and Ihad the same camera and
everything with me and I got aphoto of it with the fall leaves
.
And so when that happened I waslike, okay, if I can get all
four seasons, I can merge theseinto one photo and have it
(16:28):
transition through the framefrom left to right.
And so I've got the summer,I've got it in the fall with
those beautiful leaves and itjust rained and all the colors
popping.
I've got it in the spring withall of their hydrangeas and
everything else blooming.
And I don't have it in the snow.
And the last three times I'vegone out there in the snow the
gates have been locked andthere's been one of their city
(16:50):
park rangers they're kickingpeople out.
And I asked him.
I was like hey, I know thatpeople aren't allowed near, but
could I just this one photo?
And I showed him the otherthree and he's like no man
people in.
I was like no, that's like thedream.
Right there, that's thepedestal.
If I can get that fourth shot,then I'll finish that project.
TJ (17:07):
Well, you know what that means.
That means you're going to haveto take a job at the oatmeal
during the winter, just to getparks and rec.
Sam (17:13):
Yeah, there you go.
Yeah, bribe someone.
TJ (17:15):
Yeah, just one season's all you need.
Yeah Well, maybe not inArkansas, it might take four,
who knows?
Sam (17:20):
Yeah, I know, but that's the, that's the the one that
comes to my mind.
Daniel (17:25):
Yeah, that'd be a cool one.
They had one at, I think,delicious Temptations.
They don't merge it like that,but they have a picture of each
season, which is pretty cool.
TJ (17:34):
You were talking about, you can teach me how to do
photography.
Yeah, what's your tip forsomebody who's just going out
with a camera for a day anddoesn't know much?
Is there anything besides?
Maybe use the auto settings?
Sam (17:48):
Start shooting.
Yeah yeah, the only way tolearn is to do, especially with
photography.
It takes making a lot ofmistakes.
The best tip that I can givesomeone who's just starting is
to pay attention to your framingand figure out what your
subject is Before you ever liftup your camera to your eye,
before you ever turn it on.
Define what your subject is.
(18:10):
So, if you're taking a photo, ifyou're trying to get a
landscape, what in thislandscape am I trying to promote
as the subject, and how can Imake everything else in my frame
promote that?
How can I make everything elseless distracting?
What can I do to make thissubject?
When someone looks at thisphoto, they know that's what I
was taking a picture of.
Yeah, and that's hard to dowith landscapes.
(18:31):
If you're outside, you'relooking at vast spaces, you're
looking at the sky beautifulsunset or you're looking down
into a canyon, across a valley,right Well, that's a huge space
in your frame.
How do I make that my subject?
And so that's where it's yourjob to figure that out,
depending on the space.
But the settings come later.
TJ (18:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's good advice.
Are you one of these people whoare like, don't take the big
camera and just go with theiPhone if you don't know
anything?
Yeah?
Sam (18:59):
Yeah, I went to Acadia.
I drove with a group ofphotographers, good friends of
mine.
We rented a van here in LittleRock and we drove to Acadia in
Maine across 10 days.
We spent some time in New YorkCity, some time in Boston, salem
, new Hampshire and Vermont andthen up to Maine and then flew
back.
I shot over half of that tripon a Nintendo DSi, a group of
(19:19):
professional photographers.
Daniel (19:21):
It was like a.
Sam (19:22):
Nintendo DSi, a little Sonyo point and shoot from like
2002, an old like flip styleNikon, like a 9900 or something
like that Super old takes thecompact CF card and then film
cameras.
You don't have to have the bestgear to take a good photo.
Yeah, Just take what you have.
Have fun.
You've got me on a soapbox here.
TJ (19:40):
Go ahead.
Sam (19:41):
So many people think that you have to have the best gear.
They need the next best thing.
Oh, I'm going to take betterphotos if I buy this $3,000
camera versus this $1,000 camera.
Oh, if I get this sharper pieceof glass, this one has this
much more zoom.
I'm going to be able to takethat much better shots.
But it's the artist's handsthat do it right.
(20:07):
These iPhones right here thatyou're filming have a stronger
processor, a sensor, bettersensor than what national
geographic photographers wereusing 15 years ago
world-renowned photographers,big names in the photography
community and industry.
You've got a more powerfulcamera in your pocket.
It can do more.
It might not be as versatile,you might not have that same
focal length, you might not havesome of this stuff, but you can
take a higher quality photowith what's in your pocket.
(20:29):
So don't don't stress about thegear as much as being
intentional with what's in theshot, being intentional with
your framing.
An impactful photo doesn't haveto be a sharp photo.
An impactful photo doesn't haveto be the highest megapixels or
the best quality.
TJ (20:47):
You were talking about the trip to Acadia.
Do you ever purposely leaveyourself with limited gear to
enjoy the experience more?
Sam (20:54):
Yeah, there's sometimes where I'll leave it at home.
I don't want to be walkingaround and the entire time being
, oh, that could be a good shot,or that could be a good shot.
There's times where, yeah, Ijust want to take the scene in.
I do have trouble separatingthose.
Sometimes, if I'm doingphotography, it can feel like
work, especially on like a bigroad trip.
If I'm going out, I'm like,okay, at this place I want to
(21:16):
get some good prints that I cansell at this place.
I want to try and capture thisspecific thing, and so it kind
of becomes work, because I'vegot a checklist that I've made
for myself.
It's no one else is holding meto it, but it's things that I'm
holding myself to.
Challenges I'm pushing formyself, but sometimes it can
take away from the magic of theplace.
So I do try to be intentionalwith every now and then.
(21:37):
Okay, you know what, I'mleaving it at home this time and
I'm just going for me.
TJ (21:40):
Yeah yeah, I've had a lot of hobbies that have turned into
work because I made it that way.
I'm kind of hyper-focused andso I like get into something
that I like.
Even podcasting could be thatway, if I let it, you know.
So it's, it's easy to do.
Daniel (21:57):
So we've talked a lot about photography so far, so go
to the interpreter part of it.
What's some of the weirdestthings that people ask you, or
some of the questions they haveoh, I mean some of the weirder
ones.
Sam (22:12):
There's a lot of people that think that parks are
government conspiracies, youknow um.
So it's like, hey, what type ofsecret government facility
you're hiding underneath themountain just stuff like that.
We know the missile silos areunder there somewhere.
And you're like, okay, cool,yeah, yeah, um, I'm not going to
bash on anyone's beliefs, oryeah, or anything like that.
(22:32):
Sure, I get a lot of peoplethat come and like ask for the
best places to recharge crystals.
They're like, yeah, you're morein tune with nature, so can you
tell us the best place in thepark to recharge?
And they'll have like a bucketof crystals or something you're
like the summit go up to the top.
Daniel (22:44):
Yeah, I didn't know that was a thing.
Um, I'm pretty mean eitheruntil I started in the in the
career.
Sam (22:50):
But, um, get a lot of people that ask when we release
the animals.
I know you see all the jokeposts on instagram and facebook
and stuff about people atyellowstone like asking when
they release the bears or whenthey let the bears out in the
morning, stuff like that.
I mean it's real people, thatthat's a real question.
Yeah, people that aren't superoutdoorsy and might not
understand that this isn't a zoo, it's a natural area where the
(23:12):
wildlife is actually wild.
So, yeah, we get people thatdon't understand that.
And why can't you take us tothe bears?
Can we just see them at night?
When you bring them back in,we're like that's not how it
works.
It's all about educating andteaching them how that works and
connecting them with thoseresources in the best way you
can, because it just comes fromeducation.
People don't know.
Daniel (23:33):
Yeah, I guess we take that for granted because we are
from the country and we've beenaround nature.
I guess if you're coming fromlike New York and never been
outside in the wilderness, likemaybe that is a thought that
runs through your head.
Sam (23:50):
The woods yeah, people think of the woods and they
think of this magical place thatthey don't understand because
they just didn't grow up in itand haven't spent time in it and
just don't know, and so, yeah,that's my job is to connect them
with that resource and helpthem find the experience that
they're looking for as best as Ican, in a safe and enjoyable
way, and then help them want tocome back for more.
TJ (24:07):
Yeah, it's good to have a safe space to learn all that
kind of thing.
You don't know what are some ofthe animals that you guys do
have at pinnacle that maybe areunexpected.
Sam (24:19):
Collared lizards Really.
TJ (24:20):
Okay, that's one I've been wanting to see.
I haven't seen that, me too.
Sam (24:23):
I haven't seen one there.
I've seen photos of them there.
Pygmy rattlesnakes that'sanother one that I've seen them
in other states.
I've seen pictures of them fromguests on trails and things.
I've never seen one in the park.
I want to so bad Some otherunexpected stuff.
Quail Forever is actually doingquail habitat restoration.
We've got some fields there,our pollinator fields.
Daniel (24:43):
Just had them on the podcast just a few weeks ago.
Sam (24:46):
Yeah, we do partner with them on that project.
A weird one.
This was before I started thereat Pinnacle, but one of my
coworkers was hiking on one ofthe trails that goes next to one
of our waterways on the LittleMaumelle River with a group and
while he was hiking that,someone was fishing there and
reeled out an American eel.
TJ (25:05):
Okay, yeah, I've that.
Sam (25:07):
someone was fishing there and reeled out an american eel
okay, yeah, I've actually seenone of those in person weird
creature.
Yeah, I mean they're comingfrom the gulf.
Yeah, it came from the gulf allthe way up to the little malmo
river pinnacle mountain statepark.
Kind of weird to think about.
So those are some unexpectedones for sure do you have bear
at the park?
TJ (25:22):
you mentioned bear earlier um, we have bear.
Sam (25:24):
Sometimes we're at the very edge.
You mentioned bear earlier.
We have bear.
Sometimes we're at the veryedge of the Ouachita's.
The Malmo Pinnacle Range entersinto the foothills of the
Ouachita's, eventually becomesthe Ouachita's, but we're a very
front country park.
We're surrounded bysubdivisions and then the one
side we've got the lake and sothose adolescent males are
wandering.
The river funnels them asthey're looking for new
(25:45):
territory.
They get funneled along theriver, through the river valley
and occasionally do end up inthe park.
We'll see them on game camera afew days later.
Or we might get a guest or twocome in and say they saw one or
have a picture of one, and thenjust like that they're gone
again back out towards the lake.
Or they end up over off ofcanis or bowman, that far west
side of litter rock, and end uphaving to be relocated.
Most of the ones that come income through around us, around
(26:08):
Lake Maumau.
TJ (26:09):
That's cool.
You're going to take me andshow me the collared lizard.
We'll see one together, maybe.
Sam (26:13):
All right, yeah, we'll find one together, we'll go on the
hunt.
Daniel (26:17):
Is there any specific spots you like at any of the
parks?
I guess specifically Pinnacle.
Sam (26:26):
Do you have any like hidden gems or in that you'll tell
about?
Yeah, it's not hidden, it's onour maps.
But most people that come toPinnacle Mountain State Park
come for the mountain.
They come to go to Pinnacle,they go to that big field with
the playground and this WestSummit Trail to go up and they
don't even know that there's awhole other half of the park.
The mountain itself is like 300acres.
(26:47):
The park is 2,600.
There's two rivers that flowthrough the park.
We have five mountains in thepark.
So there's a lot of other trailthat people just don't realize
that they can even go to andexplore.
My favorite is the East QuarryTrail.
There's an old overlook in thisold quarry.
It's called the DickinsonOverlook.
From the old visitor centertake the Rocky Valley Trail and
(27:09):
on the backside of that you takea spur called the East Quarry
Trail up to that old quarry onthe far side of the valley and
you get up to that quarry.
There's an old overlook.
Up there there's an art pieceput in by the Parks Foundation
and you're over the Maumau River.
You're over the ParksFoundation and you're over the
Maumau River.
You're over the Arkansas Riverand you're looking back through
the park at all the other peaksand beautiful sunset spot,
(27:31):
really quiet.
That's where I see a lot of thewildlife in the park because
there's not a lot of people onthe trail, so that's probably my
favorite.
Daniel (27:38):
Okay, I didn't know that was back there.
It's from the old visitorcenter.
Okay, I've hiked down, you know, around those little loops down
there below it, but I haven'tbeen that far.
TJ (27:46):
I've only been to the peak.
I don't think I've ventured onany of the trails up there.
Daniel (27:50):
Oh man, we go to the Arboretum sometimes in that area
.
Sam (27:52):
That's a cool area, yep, another cool one.
We do have the water trail.
It's a game and fish trail onthe Little Maumelle.
You can get a beautiful view ofthe mountain from that river
and there's a kayak kiosk downthere.
You can go and swipe your cardand it unlocks life jackets,
paddles, the kayaks.
You can kayak the LittleMaumelle.
It spits into the Arkansas atRiver Mountain Park, right there
(28:14):
next to the 430.
Bridge, that's the headwaterswhere you can start floating,
where it becomes floatable is inthe West Summit parking lot.
Daniel (28:21):
Okay.
Sam (28:21):
Does that have that little playground right next to it?
Yeah, not, the little one withthe boat ramp and the fishing
pier.
That's the big Maumelle thatone spits out at Maumelle Park.
The campground, the Corps ofEngineers campground.
The West Summit area is the onewith the big field and the big
playground.
It's got bathrooms there.
The Kingfisher Trail is there,if you're familiar with that,
and then the West Summit Trailto go to the top.
(28:43):
That's all the West Summit area.
So if you go to the back ofthose parking lots, that's where
that water trail starts.
The Nature Conservancy has afloating camping platform out
there on the water that you canactually float to in a kayak.
You can reserve it and rent it.
You can put hammocks on it, itcan hold a tent.
It's got a changing room on it.
It's really cool.
Yeah, there there's somebeautiful views of the mountain.
You're floating throughbeautiful Cypress wetland and
(29:05):
lowland down there.
TJ (29:06):
Are there any climbing opportunities at Pinnacle?
I've noticed that when I'vebeen looking into climbers and
different things like thatlately that there's a few places
around the state that offerthat.
Sam (29:21):
So State Parks is working on climbing right now as it's
becoming more popular andeverything.
They're reviewing theirpolicies and stuff.
Right now there's no climbingthe pinnacle.
There are some old boltedroutes from back before state
parks really started enforcingno climbing that weren't bolted
by the park or anything.
I don't even think they werebolted by the climbing coalition
, I think it was just likerandom bolted routes and so if
you go and climb those, we won'tstop people.
(29:41):
They aren't on our trail mapsor anything.
It's two slab routes.
They're like a five, nine, five, eight, something like that,
and they're top rope only.
If you do go, you'll have towalk to the top via a side path,
set up your top rope and thendo it top rope.
There are changes coming, we'refiguring out policies, we're
trying to accommodate for thatrecreation, but right now you
(30:03):
can go immediately next door tous to rattlesnake, and there's
like 80 or 90 routes over there.
There's a ton of climbing onRattlesnake Ridge, trad, sport,
bouldering, it's all, and it'sless than five minutes from the
park.
TJ (30:16):
I've done some research for the podcast and stuff.
I've seen that a lot ofclimbers are saying that
Arkansas is a good spot.
Sam (30:31):
It's got some good places to go and it'd be cool to see
those more accessible to thepublic.
TJ (30:34):
Yeah, I'm excited for it.
I'm ready for it.
We just got to make it sure wedo it in a responsible and
ethical way for the resourcesthat we're handling sure makes
sense.
So climbing, kayaking, hiking,what are the biking
opportunities like there?
Sam (30:43):
we've got tons of bike trails in the park, including a
brand new downhill.
It's a downhill jump track,okay.
I mean you can be going fivemiles an hour and hit those
kickers on those and fly.
It's called chaotic zone, justopened.
I don't want to give an exactnumber because I don't remember
the exact.
It's around 30 miles of biketrail at pinnacle.
They're called the monumenttrails.
They're funded by the parksfoundation.
(31:03):
Trails are really, really niceif you like biking the Monument
Trails in general across ourstate parks.
At Pinnacle I think they're alittle bit harder than they need
to be, but our terrain that'swhat it allows.
All of our easy trails, ourbeginner trails, I would put
(31:24):
more at an intermediate level,and some of our harder trails
I'd put as like an actual likeblack diamond route.
If you're just hopping on abike and wanting to explore, or
if you're wanting a nice, light,easy ride, there are a lot of
places around us that are goingto be better suited for that.
If you're wanting to pushyourself and challenge yourself,
come on out.
TJ (31:42):
Yeah, no, that's not me Okay .
Daniel (31:46):
For sure.
We've rode some at Burns Park.
They were pretty good, but Ihaven't rode mountain bikes in a
long time.
TJ (31:52):
Yeah, I've got several good friends that are into it like
heavy, but it's not somethingthat I've got into yet.
I would like to go somewherewhere there's a really good
downhill, some good scenery, tosee along the way and experience
it.
Just to give it a chance, yeah,to see if it's something I
could be interested in, but it'snever been something I'm like,
yeah, I just want to go do that.
Yeah, we also heard thatpinnacle got a track chair
(32:15):
recently.
Yeah, it did.
How's that going?
Sam (32:17):
it's cool, yeah it uses some of the bike trails, some of
our bike trails.
We've adjusted to accommodatefor it and, yeah, you don't
reserve it through state parks,you reserve it through I think
it's called accessibility acrossarkansas yep, we've actually
got them scheduled to be on theepisode before too long.
TJ (32:33):
Oh cool, yeah, excited about that one we've got a track
chair.
Sam (32:36):
I think they're looking at trying to get us a second one.
Maybe it's popular.
Really neat to see againanother partnership that's
getting people outdoors, gettingpeople accessible spaces in the
outdoors.
TJ (32:48):
My grandmother was handicapped and so, seeing that
is important to me she alwayswanted to go to state parks.
There were cool things when shewas active where she could have
a discount, camping and thatkind of thing because of being
handicapped, but it would havebeen cool to have more things
that were accessible, becauseshe would have enjoyed it.
She was limited to four-wheelerriding, being on boats and
staying close to the camperpretty much.
Daniel (33:10):
Yeah, she had polio when she was younger, so she didn't
get around for a while.
So it sounds like you get a lotof people that don't do a ton
of outdoor stuff that come topinnacle with questions.
You were saying how, what'syour kind of your go-to message
to get them interested in it?
Sam (33:26):
I don't think I have a go-to message.
I think it's more catered tothe individual.
Someone comes and asks me aquestion.
It's kind of obvious that theyaren't comfortable in the
outdoors or haven't spent a lotof time in there.
The first thing I would do,probably, is say, well, what
brought you here today?
And then find out what theirinterest is, what initially
brought them, and then try andconnect them with that in a safe
and enjoyable way.
That would be the first thing Iwould do.
(33:47):
So if you came up to me andasked about bear specifically or
something well, did you comehere to try and find bear?
Did you know that Arkansas usedto be the bear state?
Start going into this more ofthat history, that information
there, and then try and tellthem their best chance to see
one If they want to see one.
Here's the time of year thatthey migrate and are more
commonly spotted.
Here's some of our state parksin arkansas that you can go to,
(34:08):
where it's common to see a bearif you're wanting to experience
that.
Here's the tools to to try anddo it, okay yeah that makes
sense that's good
TJ (34:19):
do you find you talk to people.
When they come back, they seekyou out and find you.
Sam (34:22):
Yeah, like how you got me into this, yep we I have a lot
of regulars at the park thatthey'll come to the visitor
center and be like hey, sam,around, there's one of the other
interpreters around, can youtell me what this is?
And it's a photo of a mushroomor it's a photo of a beetle or
something.
And once they find out thatthat resource is in the park
(34:44):
and's bring our kids to theplayground on the weekends and
they find out that they have aresource there where oh, if I
want to learn more about this,the park has that resource for
me.
TJ (34:51):
They'll start using it yeah, you find it easier to tell
people about those thingsthrough your camera or through
conversation um I.
Sam (35:03):
I think it's easier through conversation, but I like the
challenge of a photo.
When I'm taking landscapephotography, I'm wanting people
to connect to what I'm shooting,right.
So I think that's where thatchallenge comes in.
It's again what's my subject?
What am I making the subject ofthis photograph and how am I
(35:24):
promoting it?
What am I doing to make itattractive?
What am I doing to make itattractive?
What am I doing to make peopleyearn to go there?
How am I getting someone to putthemselves into this photograph
and feel like they're there andwant to be there and ignite
that passion for that place inthem?
And that's the challenge to mein photography that I like.
That's what draws me to shoot.
But I think it's a lot easierfor me to just sit and have a
(35:46):
conversation with someone.
Daniel (35:47):
So what role do you think photography plays in
conservation?
Sam (35:51):
Well, it goes right back to the last one.
If you can invoke thosefeelings in someone through a
photograph, then you can capturetheir heart.
You can give them a reason towant to protect that.
Then maybe they'll be morelikely to fight for it.
TJ (36:08):
I think that's true with, like, the collared lizard.
You know we can sit here andtalk about lizards all day long
and until you see a photo of thecollared lizard, you're not
going to be that concerned withit.
If we're honest, most of thelizards we see in Arkansas are
like the little brown.
Sam (36:21):
Yeah, the southern fence lizards or the anoles skinks,
yeah they're just not thatexciting.
TJ (36:25):
But when you see that Arkansas actually has a blue
green, 18 inch long malecollared lizard, you know that's
pretty cool.
Sam (36:34):
And with a iguana running around over here.
TJ (36:36):
So is that the draw for you to be an interpreter is to
interest other people inoutdoors and conserving those
spaces.
Sam (36:43):
Yeah, it's to connect them to the outdoors, but more
importantly, it's to help themfind their own passion.
I'm not here to tell them hey,this is what recreation you want
to do, this is what recreationyou need to do.
It's what recreation do youwant to do and how can I connect
you with that?
What resource are youpassionate about and how can I
help you find that connectionhere?
TJ (37:01):
Yeah, that's the same with us.
That's what we're wanting to dowith.
The podcast is like we want tohelp people find that thing to
get them plugged in.
Daniel (37:09):
He's a hunter, I'm more of a hiker.
You have bike riding, you haverock climbing, you have all
these things.
So that's why we're trying topiece people together, to hit
all those areas, becauseeverything don't speak to
everybody.
TJ (37:20):
That's what we want to recreate is showing people the
magic of the outdoors and givingthem a reason to want to save
it and nurture it, steward it.
Daniel (37:29):
Yeah, so are most of your peers also in the outdoors
that you hang out with.
I assume it probably gearstoward that a little bit, but I
wouldn't say that most of myfriends are outdoorsy.
Sam (37:39):
I'd say it's a healthy mix.
If I want to go hiking orcamping, I've got a bunch of
people I can call that are downand most of the time to yeah,
let's hit the trail.
But if I want to stay in andplay video games, I've got
friends that I can call and belike hey, leo, let's spend a
weekend playing the Halocampaigns or something like that
.
I feel blessed in that way.
TJ (37:59):
Yeah, that's good when you're seeing park goers these
days.
Do you feel like there's a goodmix?
Of age groups, or you're seeinga lot more younger people these
days experiencing the parks.
What's the demographic looklike?
Sam (38:13):
the demographic at my park is a little bit different from
other parks.
We're very front country.
I feel like there's a huge mix.
We've got ada accessible trails.
We've got paved trails.
We get the regulars that comeevery morning with their walkers
and their wheelchairs to to goout and experience nature and
wildlife right and experiencethat.
But we've got playgrounds withlittle kids running around.
(38:34):
We've got middle-aged mountainbikers that are out hitting the
trails on their lunch break orhitting it before they go to the
brewery at the end of the day.
We've got families that aredriving through visiting.
Oh, let's look up things to doin Litteraca.
So huge variety here.
Yep, oh, let's look up thingsto do in Litteraca so huge
variety here.
TJ (38:50):
Yeah, Is there a certain demographic that you like got a
heart for that?
You're like man.
I just enjoy the kids, yeah.
Sam (38:59):
Honestly, middle school, high schoolers, that's like my
ideal.
If there's a couple ofdifferent groups wanting to come
out to the park and have aguided hike or education
programming and I can pickbetween two, I'll pick the older
ones every time.
TJ (39:12):
Why is that, do you think?
Sam (39:13):
I think it's because at that age they kind of know a
little bit more about wheretheir passions lie and where
their pursuits lie.
I feel like I can be moreimpactful in helping them
through the next step.
They found the door and now I'mhelping them walk through it.
We've got so many games and somany hikes and programs and
(39:35):
activities for kids and I lovethat.
I love it.
They might remember it whenthey're older, and I hope that
they do yeah, the older ones.
I feel like we can go deeper,and that's what I want.
TJ (39:43):
Yeah, is there anything that park goers do that just like
really gets on your nerves?
Sam (39:50):
well, I will preface this, yeah, by saying I will never be
mad that someone is gettingoutdoors and exploring public
spaces.
I'll never be upset thatsomeone took the time and the
effort and the energy to come toan outdoor space to try and
experience something.
It is my job to educate if theyaren't doing it with the best
(40:12):
ethics.
So a lot of what annoys me orfrustrates me is something that
can be simply fixed througheducation.
It's like people rock stacking.
I know that's such a divisivesubject.
Everyone is a resource expertand everyone's all about leave
no trace.
Leave no trace.
Hey, we need to protect thespace.
(40:32):
And then you go on Facebook andsee a rock stack post and the
same people that are saying thatare fighting to the tooth and
nail that they should be allowedto stack rocks.
Just the leave no traceprinciples.
Stay on the trail.
Some of the parks I've worked atnot just my current one we deal
with massive erosion problemsfrom people cutting switchbacks.
They see the trail right downbelow them and right down below
(40:54):
them and right down below themand instead of taking the
switchbacks down that hill, theygo straight down.
It causes a ton of problems andit causes the parks a ton of
money to try and fix Lots ofgraffiti.
And again I get that peoplewant to leave their mark right.
For thousands of years,thousands of years, people have
been leaving their mark onplaces right.
(41:15):
If you go to the top ofPinnacle right now, you can find
graffiti from the late 1800s,early 1900s, scotch into the
Rocks, petty Jean.
Same way, if you ever go toPetty Jean State Park, there's
graffiti there that is old andthen there's graffiti there
that's considered rock art atthis point.
Right, we've got Native Americanpictographs at that park in
multiple places, hundreds ofpictographs across the mountain,
(41:38):
documented and, I'm sure, evenmore undocumented.
When does it stop beinggraffiti and start being a
historic resource?
So I get that people want toleave their mark, but the best
ethics, the best practices thatwe're learning and promoting
nowadays are leave no trace,right, we want to leave nothing
but footprints and take nothingbut pictures, and so trying to
(42:01):
educate people on that thatmight not understand that, that
might've not come from abackground where they were
taught that growing up theyhaven't been taught better.
TJ (42:09):
I think I take that for granted.
There's a lot of things.
I know not to leave trash.
I know not to stack rocks.
I don't do it.
I don't let my kids do it.
I don't even let my kids turnover rocks if I can help it.
But I take that for grantedbecause I was taught that.
I think that's what makes yougood at what you do.
Is the fact that you have aconcern like that for people.
I wouldn't be as patient,probably, as what you are and as
(42:33):
gentle and, just being honest,I would be a little more miffed
about it.
Probably.
That's probably what makes youperfect for the job.
Thanks, yeah.
Daniel (42:40):
So here's a new little section.
On this one it's just a rapidfire questions just kind of in
the segment here.
So when you're out there takingphotos, sunrise or sunset, Ooh
sunrise Okay, mountain or river.
Sam (42:53):
Mountain.
Daniel (42:54):
What's your favorite Arkansas critter?
Sam (42:56):
Oh man, now you really got me thinking Salamanders.
Daniel (43:01):
And then what's your worst bug encounter.
I guess this kind of slows downa little bit.
Sam (43:05):
I have been stung by a tarantula hawk before in the
shoulder blade while I was weedwhacking Could not raise that
arm for two days.
Zero out of 10 would notrecommend.
Also been stung by a velvet cowant the red velvet ant.
TJ (43:16):
I've seen them never been stung by one.
Sam (43:18):
Don't do it.
They're gentle.
I've held them before.
I'm not recommending you holdwildlife that can be potentially
dangerous, to clarify.
But I was holding one.
I wasn't at work or anything, Iwas just with some friends and
I'm showing them and I set itdown back on the ground and just
continued talking to them andas I set it down on the ground
it crawled across my foot and Iwas in flip-flops and I tried to
(43:39):
just brush it off and it gotcaught under my sandal strap and
stung me twice in the foot andI could only wear sandals for
about a week.
I mean, swe up, bad.
TJ (43:48):
They say they're pretty painful.
Sam (43:49):
Yeah, those and the trench locks, both.
They're in like the top five orwhatever.
TJ (43:54):
Was that your coyote Peterson experience?
Sam (43:56):
Yeah, that's where.
That's where it began, yeah.
TJ (43:58):
Yeah.
Sam (44:00):
I've seen his episodes on both of those and I can confirm
that they were that bad he wasnot exaggerating.
Yeah.
Daniel (44:11):
I'll pour one out for him any day.
So what's your photo you'remost proud of?
Sam (44:14):
that no one sees?
Hmm, probably photos of myfamily.
TJ (44:16):
Yeah, you know I'll.
Sam (44:17):
I'll take family photos and stuff.
I'm not posting those anywhere,I'm not putting them on
Facebook, I'm not putting themon Instagram or anything.
Just a family reunion photo andwe can all get our high quality
photo to put in our livingrooms and stuff.
They can look at this photothat I've taken of the whole
family and able to see all thatand and keep that history in
those memories.
TJ (44:35):
Yeah, so where can people see your photos and get in touch
with you if they just want totalk to you?
Sam (44:41):
Instagramcom slash Sam files.
TJ (44:44):
Got it down.
Sam (44:45):
Yep, think of it like Sam's files, but files is my last
name, so it works out.
Yeah, that's perfect Sam files.
TJ (44:51):
Cool, that's a cool last name to be born with.
Yeah, thanks, picked it outmyself.
So, in closing, if you couldgive a message to people who are
listening to get them into theoutdoors, what would it be?
Sam (45:10):
I think it would be.
Don't be afraid to get out andexplore.
So many people are held backbecause it's unknown.
The outdoors is an unknown to alot of people.
Well, there could be snakes,there could be spiders, there
could be yeah, there could be,there will be, but don't be
afraid of that.
If you want to start somewheresmall, come to a state park.
Go on a guided hike with anexpert that's a resource expert
(45:32):
and can tell you everything thatyou're experiencing.
That can keep you safe whileyou're doing it.
Start small like that and buildyour way up to as far as you
want to go, but don't let thefear of the unknown keep you
from exploring an amazing worldcool.
Daniel (45:48):
Well, we appreciate you coming out, enjoyed it.
I hope you enjoyed it.
Sure, we'll see you around.
Sam (45:53):
Yeah, I've had a lot of fun .
So thank you all for invitingme out and bring me on the show.
And, yeah, if y'all ever needanything or any of the listeners
need anything, that's that'swhat I'm here for.
So, yeah, I'm out.
We're going to float yeah,we'll do it.
Daniel (46:08):
Thanks so much.
Thank you thanks for tuning into this episode of natural
obsession.
Big thanks to sam files fortaking time out of his schedule
to share some stories from thefield and the frame.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, be sure to follow
us on instagram at natob podcast, and on facebook at natural
obsession.
We've got more great guests andoutdoor stories coming your way
(46:30):
.
See you next time.
If you could give a message to people who are listening to
get them into the outdoors, whatwould it be?
Sam (00:08):
Don't be afraid to get out and explore.
So many people are held backbecause it's unknown.
Well, there could be snakes,there could be spiders, there
could be yeah, there could be,but don't be afraid of that.
If you want to start somewheresmall, come to a state park, go
on a guided hike with an expertand can tell you everything that
you're experiencing.
That can keep you safe whileyou're doing it.
Start small like that and buildyour way up to as far as you
(00:30):
want to go, but don't let thefear of the unknown keep you
from exploring an amazing world.
Daniel (00:39):
Hey everyone and welcome back to Natural Obsession.
Today we're joined in thestudio by Sam Files photographer
, park interpreter and afamiliar face out of Pinnacle
Mountain State Park.
Sam has a unique perspective onthe outdoors, spending his days
helping visitors connect withnature and capturing a lot of it
through his camera lens.
We'll talk about what it's liketo work in one of Arkansas'
most iconic parks, storiesbehind his favorite shots and
(01:00):
what draws him back outside dayafter day.
And what draws him back outsideday after day.
This is Daniel and TJ withNatural Obsession Podcast.
We've got Sam on today withnatural photography and art
interpreter and just give us alittle idea about what that
means.
Sam (01:23):
So as a photographer, I shoot landscapes, weddings,
senior photos, I run film,developing workshops.
I'm just kind of all over inthe field and in the hobby and
in the profession of photographyand I dabble in it all.
And then, as a park interpreter, I work for state parks.
I work out at Pinnacle Mountainin Little Rock.
My job is to connect peoplewith outdoors.
Yeah, that's awesome.
TJ (01:41):
So did it start as a hobby first, or did it start as a job,
getting into the outdoors?
Sam (01:46):
It started as a passion when I was growing up.
I grew up glued to AnimalPlanet you know, all the same.
Yeah, Steve Irwin Jeff Corwinyou know, all those folks, the
Krat brothers back on Zabuma Fu,you know, and so.
And then my parents, my parents, liked the outdoors boomafu,
(02:06):
you know, and so.
And then my parents, my parents, liked the outdoors.
They recognized that I likedthe outdoors a lot more than
them, but they afforded me a lotof opportunities to be outside,
to play outside, get outside,go camping, go hiking.
So I appreciate them for thattoo, because they really helped
mold and shape that as well andso kind of have always pursued
that passion and when I got oldenough to start entering the
career field or looking atcareers, I started looking at
okay, well, I want to work forthe National Park Service or the
(02:28):
Forest Service or state parks.
What career is there for me inoutdoor education and connecting
people to the outdoors andbeing a guide for the outdoors,
an educator for the outdoors,all of it.
I discovered parkinterpretation and knew right.
Then I was like that's exactlywhat I'm looking for yeah, yeah,
awesome.
Daniel (02:47):
I had to look it up because I didn't know exactly
what that was as a parkinterpreter, so pretty cool yeah
you were talking about, yourparents afforded you a lot more
opportunities to get into thatkind of thing.
TJ (02:57):
Kind of expound on that for me, because he's got three kids.
I've got five kids, so I'd kindof like to know what specific
things they did that maybe ledto you getting an education in
the parks and rec or even justas a kid hanging out.
What were some of the thingsthat you think really pointed
you to that career and the lovefor the outdoors?
Sam (03:16):
Growing up as a young kid.
I can still remember us goingcamping.
I was born in North Carolina.
We lived in the coastal plains,not quite the Outer Banks but
about an hour from the shore.
I can remember us when I wasborn in North Carolina.
We lived in the coastal plains,not quite the Outer Banks but
about an hour from the shore.
I can remember us when stuffthat I caught we caught turtles
(03:37):
and lizards and snakes, We'dhave stuff for like a whole
summer.
They'd put up with myshenanigans dragging stuff to
the house.
Daniel (03:50):
Yeah, that's awesome.
TJ (03:51):
As you got older and you were starting looking for career
paths, did they take you tolike any career fairs and stuff
like that?
Did you make it to any of thatkind of stuff with your parents
or in school?
Sam (04:00):
In school yeah, it was through my parents as well.
My school In school yeah, itwas through my parents as well.
My parents helped set it up.
I had a class in the eighthgrade called career orientation
and it was where we werestarting to look at career
fields and look at options.
So as we went into high schoolwe could kind of start picking
our paths and knowing that Iwanted to do something in the
outdoors, something witheducation, something with
(04:21):
conservation, conservation myparents called around to
different state parks and askedif I could job shadow for a day
or two for part of that class.
So I ended up shadowing aninterpreter at lake dardanelle
in russellville.
So my parents drove me up torussellville, they helped set
all that up and I shadowed theirinterpreter for like two days
(04:43):
and this is what I want to doright here Yep oh yeah, yep.
Daniel (04:47):
Yeah, that's a neat experience there.
So how long did it take to getthe degree?
What is the degree, I guess, todo that?
Sam (04:54):
It's changed a little bit since I went through school.
I went to Arkansas TechUniversity in Russellville
through their Parks and Recprogram and that program has
changed and restructured alittle bit since I went through
it a decade ago.
But what I got was a bachelor'sof science in recreation and
park administration and thenunder that there were five
(05:15):
emphasis and my emphasis wasinterpretation, so kind of a
mouthful.
Daniel (05:20):
Yeah.
Sam (05:20):
And then I have an associates in history and I took
a bunch of museum and archiveclasses under that.
Daniel (05:25):
That was kind of the emphasis for that historic
preservation and conservationyeah, that's, that's,
interesting yep, so thephotography and the
interpretation goes pretty handin hand yeah yeah, so what is
one of the craziest momentsyou've captured on camera at one
of the state parks that you doanything?
Sam (05:44):
stick out to you the eclipse yeah last year I didn't
shoot that on still photo, soanything that I take on the
clock while at work belongs tothe state.
I can't sell work, I can'tpromote my work if I'm taking it
while on the clock.
Yeah, so there's an overlapthere in what pro work I'm doing
(06:05):
at the parks that I work at,but I go to a lot of parks on my
days off.
Now the eclipse that's probablythe coolest thing I've captured
while at work.
I took phone footage, I filmedit.
I had the honor and theblessing of drawing the long
stick on our safety and planningfor that event and got to be on
(06:26):
top of the mountain with thecrowds for that.
That's pretty neat.
TJ (06:30):
We set up a whole weekend around the eclipse at our
property in Leslie, arkansasCool.
We actually had a guy from NASAand he gave us this long
explanation and stuff.
He actually had a moment.
While we were on the mountainwe had a bunch of buzzards that
were roosted behind us and asthe eclipse ended they all came
off like for the roost and he'snever seen that with birds
(06:50):
before, and so that was a coolmoment for us.
Yeah, we had like 30, 40 peoplethere.
Sam (06:54):
I was checking it out on our land Up on Pinnacle we had
about 450.
Wow.
TJ (06:59):
Yeah, I imagine that's a pretty cool place to watch it
from.
Sam (07:01):
It was amazing.
We got to see the shadow comeacross the Arkansas River Valley
to us as it was coming acrossthe landscape and there was a
lot of different nationalities,represented a lot of different
age groups, a lot of differentstates, and so we were all just
sitting and talking, and thenalso all the peaks around us
were covered in people.
So there was a lot ofcamaraderies.
(07:21):
Everyone's looking throughtheir binoculars and you can see
everyone waving back way overthere on East Mountain and over
at Rattlesnake Ridge, andthey're all shouting back and
forth and that's really cool.
TJ (07:30):
A lot of cheering.
Yeah, that's one thing thatwe've talked a little bit about.
Outdoors is something that tiespeople together.
Yeah, that's cool to hear apractical story of that.
Sam (07:39):
Yeah, Long story for a short question but that's
probably one of the coolestthings I've caught at the park
or gotten to witness anddocument.
TJ (07:47):
Yeah, so that sounds like there was some prep that went
into that, though.
Oh yeah, yeah, months ingeneral.
Are you a lazy photographer ordo you have to work for your
photos?
Do you go out and prep, you'rethere at five o'clock in the
morning, before daylight, andyou look for that perfect shot,
or you just happen to phone themmost of the time.
Sam (08:06):
It depends.
TJ (08:07):
Yeah.
Sam (08:07):
I think I'm meticulous and no matter how meticulous I am,
it doesn't always, it never willgo like I plan and that's OK.
And I think some of the bestmoments that I've captured and
some of my favorite moments thatI've captured have been just in
the moment.
Oh, let me turn and shoot thisreal quick, with no prior
(08:29):
thought or planning to it.
I think that's made for some ofthe best moments that I've
captured.
But yeah, I do tend tooverthink and over plan things a
lot, so there's a lot of timeswhere I'll spend like months
planning for a single shot totake and everything.
TJ (08:39):
I totally get the nothing going to plan.
It seems like I'm the same waywhen it comes to hunting.
You can prep and plan and knowthat this spot's going to
produce and it doesn't.
It's that one time when you gotoff work late and you ran out
there and set in the deer standthat you're going to kill the
bigger buck and that kind ofthing.
So yeah I can.
Daniel (08:56):
I can totally empathize with that yeah, I dabbled in
photography a little bit and Iwould try to get this perfect
shot and like it just never wentright.
So sometimes I lost a littlebit of the joy in outdoors
because I was too focused on thetrying to get the shot.
But sometimes you get a goodshot by just having it with you
and see something and do it andturns out great.
TJ (09:15):
I'm just too dumb.
There's too many settings forme shutter, speed and all the
other things just get me there'san auto setting, yeah and it
never works for me.
I'm the guy who uses the autosetting and still gets it wrong,
so I don't know how that works,but it does for some reason.
Sam (09:28):
We'll get you on a camera.
We'll get you Okay.
We'll get you learned.
I'll take you up on that Allright, I've got a camera, come
on.
Daniel (09:45):
I need to spend a few days or just kind of worked into
it.
Sam (09:49):
I don't know.
So my start to photography camein high school.
I took a photography classduring my final year, my senior
year, just as an easy class, Iwouldn't have to do a lot of
homework in or care about thatmuch, and, oops, fell in love
with it.
So there's a lot of like justbeing challenged in my
assignments in that class.
(10:10):
And I had a next door neighborand a friend of mine that was
also in that class and alreadyliked photography before, and so
we started doing our classprojects together and while we
were hanging out anyways causehe lived directly across the
street so we were always hangingout but it was like, oh man, we
can like actually spend sometime and have fun with these
(10:32):
assignments.
And we started doing that andquickly, I think, outgrew what
the teacher was even expectingor wanting to do with it, and so
he was giving us extra stuffjust to like push us further and
further and had a lot of fun.
And then when I went off tocollege, I've had all those
skills and knowledge and thatpassion for it, but I didn't
have a camera because I wasusing the school cameras.
So my grandpa actually boughtme a camera I think it was my
(10:54):
grandparents and my parents.
They, some of them, yeah somechipped in and bought me a
camera, little nikon d3200 yeah,walmart dslr first one.
I used that thing for like eightyears Great camera.
Yeah, it's a great camera andjust continued my passion from
there Landscape, I think justcame with my other passions
already.
It's like oh, I'm getting intophotography, I'm liking
(11:16):
photography, and oh, I'm alwaysbackpacking.
I'm always camping.
Any day that I'm free, I'mgoing outdoors and I'm always
backpacking, I'm always camping.
Any day that I'm free, I'mgoing outdoors.
And so I was bringing my camerawith me.
So those two worlds combined inthe outdoors and in the
landscape photography world.
So I don't think it was aspecific photo or a specific
event that caused me to pursuelandscape photography.
(11:37):
I think it was just more myother passions kind of dragging
photography into it.
Daniel (11:41):
This is just a curious question for me.
I do a lot of hiking andbackpacking stuff.
I did it with my father-in-lawand I would try to bring my
camera stuff, and that's just awhole another beast to bring all
that stuff with you, like,which lens am I needing?
Like you can try to bring youroverall lens, but it just
becomes a lot of stuff to carryaround.
You just do it, yeah.
Sam (12:00):
It's unfortunate because, yeah, I have a cinder block of a
camera right now.
And then with film.
If I'm shooting film, I've gotextra stuff with me too.
It just gave me an excuse to goultra light on everything else.
I can't get the base weightdown on the camera, so I'm going
to have to get that lightersleeping bag.
I'm going to have to get thatlighter tent.
Daniel (12:17):
It gets expensive doing that.
Yeah, I know it's unfortunate.
Sam (12:38):
Yeah, every hour starts the solution that I've done over
the long term.
When I go to look at the nextpiece of gear, or upgrading a
piece of gear or replacing apiece of gear that's worn out, I
have to be more intentionalabout.
Ok, let me actually startlooking at what the ult.
I'm going backpacking.
I'm going to plan all theplaces there that I can get good
shots.
I'm going to try and go in theweather.
I try and revolve my outdoorhobbies around the photography,
so usually that means I can bepretty mission minded.
I'm not going to throw in likefive or six lenses and okay, I'm
just going to plan foreverything.
(12:59):
That's where that meticulous,that planning that we were
talking about earlier comes in.
I'll usually, if I'mbackpacking, only take a 50
millimeter.
I'm not going to take a zoom atall.
If I'm backpacking, I'm justgoing to take the one prime with
the one body, and then I have aUSB charger for my phone, my
GPS, and I can charge the camerawith it.
And so I can if I need to.
(13:21):
If I run out of battery forsome reason, I can do that, but
my camera battery usually lastsa long time, so I can go on a
three or four day trip, and aslong as I'm not just snapping
away, I'll be fine yeah.
TJ (13:31):
So you were saying that photography is the thing that
gets you out there.
What are the other things thatyou're doing in the outdoors
that you enjoy?
Sam (13:39):
Backpacking, camping, hiking in general.
I love to rock climb.
I like to float, so the kayakpaddle, I like to paddle.
Yeah, not a whitewater guy, no,slow mover, I like moving water
, I don't like flat water thatmuch.
Yeah, if I'm on a lake I'mgoing to get bored pretty quick,
but no, I don't have the skillor the time or the budget to get
(14:02):
into the whitewater stuff.
TJ (14:04):
Yeah, we didn't either, but growing up we were like on the
Mulberry Illinois Bayou, buffalo, big Piney, all those kind of
things.
We didn't have the budget forit either.
We actually had recreationalkayaks, but we were doing all
those floats.
It's not like being in Coloradoor somewhere where you got
level fives, although we do havethat at Costa Tote Costa.
Sam (14:21):
Tote yeah.
TJ (14:22):
Yeah, we never made it that far, though.
It was always like I thinkMulberry was a three and a half,
so we caught a littlewhitewater in those kayaks.
That was a lot of fun on abudget.
Yeah, cool.
A single life afforded us theopportunity to be out more and
have a lot more gear for thatkind of thing.
Yeah, now that we're marriedand we've got kids to stick
(14:44):
around.
Yeah, more risk.
Sam (14:45):
More risk and you kind of got to pick and choose which
ones you afford the time to.
TJ (14:49):
Yeah, my time outdoors is a little more tame than what it
used to be, if anything.
Sam (14:54):
Get those kids rock climbing.
Yeah, yeah, I've never rockclimbed.
Daniel (14:57):
It's interest me, but I've just never.
It seems like a lot to get into.
Sam (15:01):
It's fun.
Daniel (15:02):
Yeah.
Sam (15:02):
You've got the bouldering gym here in Conway.
They do a membership and it'sjust a keypad on the door.
You can go any time of day ornight, so whenever your schedule
works, and it's a lot of fun.
TJ (15:12):
Seems like it would be good, fun exercise.
There's not a lot of exercisethat I would say.
Daniel (15:15):
I just enjoy but I think I could get into that if my
body wasn't built for Japanesewrestling sports.
There you go.
That's funny.
So is there any specific shotyou're trying to get, like
you've dreamed of getting in,just working toward it or
anything anywhere you want to goto really get a perfect shot
(15:36):
there's one I've been working onfor 10 years.
Sam (15:38):
It's not necessarily a dream one, but it's like it's a
project that I started and Ireally want to finish.
Have you ever been to the OldMill in North Little Rock?
TJ (15:45):
Yeah, it's been a lot more than I have.
Yeah, it's been a lot.
Sam (15:47):
Well, back in college with that D3200, I got a beautiful
photo of it in the spring withall the spring flowers and stuff
there.
And then a few years later Iwas there.
My family lives in Sherwood,north Little Rock, so I can
drive over there in like fiveminutes.
So I spent a lot of time overthere.
But there was one time in thefall I just happened to be over
there driving past.
(16:08):
I had my camera and I saw itwas just in perfect color so I
stopped.
I found that old photo on myphone.
I got to that same spot and Ihad the same camera and
everything with me and I got aphoto of it with the fall leaves
.
And so when that happened I waslike, okay, if I can get all
four seasons, I can merge theseinto one photo and have it
(16:28):
transition through the framefrom left to right.
And so I've got the summer,I've got it in the fall with
those beautiful leaves and itjust rained and all the colors
popping.
I've got it in the spring withall of their hydrangeas and
everything else blooming.
And I don't have it in the snow.
And the last three times I'vegone out there in the snow the
gates have been locked andthere's been one of their city
(16:50):
park rangers they're kickingpeople out.
And I asked him.
I was like hey, I know thatpeople aren't allowed near, but
could I just this one photo?
And I showed him the otherthree and he's like no man
people in.
I was like no, that's like thedream.
Right there, that's thepedestal.
If I can get that fourth shot,then I'll finish that project.
TJ (17:07):
Well, you know what that means.
That means you're going to haveto take a job at the oatmeal
during the winter, just to getparks and rec.
Sam (17:13):
Yeah, there you go.
Yeah, bribe someone.
TJ (17:15):
Yeah, just one season's all you need.
Yeah Well, maybe not inArkansas, it might take four,
who knows?
Sam (17:20):
Yeah, I know, but that's the, that's the the one that
comes to my mind.
Daniel (17:25):
Yeah, that'd be a cool one.
They had one at, I think,delicious Temptations.
They don't merge it like that,but they have a picture of each
season, which is pretty cool.
TJ (17:34):
You were talking about, you can teach me how to do
photography.
Yeah, what's your tip forsomebody who's just going out
with a camera for a day anddoesn't know much?
Is there anything besides?
Maybe use the auto settings?
Sam (17:48):
Start shooting.
Yeah yeah, the only way tolearn is to do, especially with
photography.
It takes making a lot ofmistakes.
The best tip that I can givesomeone who's just starting is
to pay attention to your framingand figure out what your
subject is Before you ever liftup your camera to your eye,
before you ever turn it on.
Define what your subject is.
(18:10):
So, if you're taking a photo, ifyou're trying to get a
landscape, what in thislandscape am I trying to promote
as the subject, and how can Imake everything else in my frame
promote that?
How can I make everything elseless distracting?
What can I do to make thissubject?
When someone looks at thisphoto, they know that's what I
was taking a picture of.
Yeah, and that's hard to dowith landscapes.
(18:31):
If you're outside, you'relooking at vast spaces, you're
looking at the sky beautifulsunset or you're looking down
into a canyon, across a valley,right Well, that's a huge space
in your frame.
How do I make that my subject?
And so that's where it's yourjob to figure that out,
depending on the space.
But the settings come later.
TJ (18:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's good advice.
Are you one of these people whoare like, don't take the big
camera and just go with theiPhone if you don't know
anything?
Yeah?
Sam (18:59):
Yeah, I went to Acadia.
I drove with a group ofphotographers, good friends of
mine.
We rented a van here in LittleRock and we drove to Acadia in
Maine across 10 days.
We spent some time in New YorkCity, some time in Boston, salem
, new Hampshire and Vermont andthen up to Maine and then flew
back.
I shot over half of that tripon a Nintendo DSi, a group of
(19:19):
professional photographers.
Daniel (19:21):
It was like a.
Sam (19:22):
Nintendo DSi, a little Sonyo point and shoot from like
2002, an old like flip styleNikon, like a 9900 or something
like that Super old takes thecompact CF card and then film
cameras.
You don't have to have the bestgear to take a good photo.
Yeah, Just take what you have.
Have fun.
You've got me on a soapbox here.
TJ (19:40):
Go ahead.
Sam (19:41):
So many people think that you have to have the best gear.
They need the next best thing.
Oh, I'm going to take betterphotos if I buy this $3,000
camera versus this $1,000 camera.
Oh, if I get this sharper pieceof glass, this one has this
much more zoom.
I'm going to be able to takethat much better shots.
But it's the artist's handsthat do it right.
(20:07):
These iPhones right here thatyou're filming have a stronger
processor, a sensor, bettersensor than what national
geographic photographers wereusing 15 years ago
world-renowned photographers,big names in the photography
community and industry.
You've got a more powerfulcamera in your pocket.
It can do more.
It might not be as versatile,you might not have that same
focal length, you might not havesome of this stuff, but you can
take a higher quality photowith what's in your pocket.
(20:29):
So don't don't stress about thegear as much as being
intentional with what's in theshot, being intentional with
your framing.
An impactful photo doesn't haveto be a sharp photo.
An impactful photo doesn't haveto be the highest megapixels or
the best quality.
TJ (20:47):
You were talking about the trip to Acadia.
Do you ever purposely leaveyourself with limited gear to
enjoy the experience more?
Sam (20:54):
Yeah, there's sometimes where I'll leave it at home.
I don't want to be walkingaround and the entire time being
, oh, that could be a good shot,or that could be a good shot.
There's times where, yeah, Ijust want to take the scene in.
I do have trouble separatingthose.
Sometimes, if I'm doingphotography, it can feel like
work, especially on like a bigroad trip.
If I'm going out, I'm like,okay, at this place I want to
(21:16):
get some good prints that I cansell at this place.
I want to try and capture thisspecific thing, and so it kind
of becomes work, because I'vegot a checklist that I've made
for myself.
It's no one else is holding meto it, but it's things that I'm
holding myself to.
Challenges I'm pushing formyself, but sometimes it can
take away from the magic of theplace.
So I do try to be intentionalwith every now and then.
(21:37):
Okay, you know what, I'mleaving it at home this time and
I'm just going for me.
TJ (21:40):
Yeah yeah, I've had a lot of hobbies that have turned into
work because I made it that way.
I'm kind of hyper-focused andso I like get into something
that I like.
Even podcasting could be thatway, if I let it, you know.
So it's, it's easy to do.
Daniel (21:57):
So we've talked a lot about photography so far, so go
to the interpreter part of it.
What's some of the weirdestthings that people ask you, or
some of the questions they haveoh, I mean some of the weirder
ones.
Sam (22:12):
There's a lot of people that think that parks are
government conspiracies, youknow um.
So it's like, hey, what type ofsecret government facility
you're hiding underneath themountain just stuff like that.
We know the missile silos areunder there somewhere.
And you're like, okay, cool,yeah, yeah, um, I'm not going to
bash on anyone's beliefs, oryeah, or anything like that.
(22:32):
Sure, I get a lot of peoplethat come and like ask for the
best places to recharge crystals.
They're like, yeah, you're morein tune with nature, so can you
tell us the best place in thepark to recharge?
And they'll have like a bucketof crystals or something you're
like the summit go up to the top.
Daniel (22:44):
Yeah, I didn't know that was a thing.
Um, I'm pretty mean eitheruntil I started in the in the
career.
Sam (22:50):
But, um, get a lot of people that ask when we release
the animals.
I know you see all the jokeposts on instagram and facebook
and stuff about people atyellowstone like asking when
they release the bears or whenthey let the bears out in the
morning, stuff like that.
I mean it's real people, thatthat's a real question.
Yeah, people that aren't superoutdoorsy and might not
understand that this isn't a zoo, it's a natural area where the
(23:12):
wildlife is actually wild.
So, yeah, we get people thatdon't understand that.
And why can't you take us tothe bears?
Can we just see them at night?
When you bring them back in,we're like that's not how it
works.
It's all about educating andteaching them how that works and
connecting them with thoseresources in the best way you
can, because it just comes fromeducation.
People don't know.
Daniel (23:33):
Yeah, I guess we take that for granted because we are
from the country and we've beenaround nature.
I guess if you're coming fromlike New York and never been
outside in the wilderness, likemaybe that is a thought that
runs through your head.
Sam (23:50):
The woods yeah, people think of the woods and they
think of this magical place thatthey don't understand because
they just didn't grow up in itand haven't spent time in it and
just don't know, and so, yeah,that's my job is to connect them
with that resource and helpthem find the experience that
they're looking for as best as Ican, in a safe and enjoyable
way, and then help them want tocome back for more.
TJ (24:07):
Yeah, it's good to have a safe space to learn all that
kind of thing.
You don't know what are some ofthe animals that you guys do
have at pinnacle that maybe areunexpected.
Sam (24:19):
Collared lizards Really.
TJ (24:20):
Okay, that's one I've been wanting to see.
I haven't seen that, me too.
Sam (24:23):
I haven't seen one there.
I've seen photos of them there.
Pygmy rattlesnakes that'sanother one that I've seen them
in other states.
I've seen pictures of them fromguests on trails and things.
I've never seen one in the park.
I want to so bad Some otherunexpected stuff.
Quail Forever is actually doingquail habitat restoration.
We've got some fields there,our pollinator fields.
Daniel (24:43):
Just had them on the podcast just a few weeks ago.
Sam (24:46):
Yeah, we do partner with them on that project.
A weird one.
This was before I started thereat Pinnacle, but one of my
coworkers was hiking on one ofthe trails that goes next to one
of our waterways on the LittleMaumelle River with a group and
while he was hiking that,someone was fishing there and
reeled out an American eel.
TJ (25:05):
Okay, yeah, I've that.
Sam (25:07):
someone was fishing there and reeled out an american eel
okay, yeah, I've actually seenone of those in person weird
creature.
Yeah, I mean they're comingfrom the gulf.
Yeah, it came from the gulf allthe way up to the little malmo
river pinnacle mountain statepark.
Kind of weird to think about.
So those are some unexpectedones for sure do you have bear
at the park?
TJ (25:22):
you mentioned bear earlier um, we have bear.
Sam (25:24):
Sometimes we're at the very edge.
You mentioned bear earlier.
We have bear.
Sometimes we're at the veryedge of the Ouachita's.
The Malmo Pinnacle Range entersinto the foothills of the
Ouachita's, eventually becomesthe Ouachita's, but we're a very
front country park.
We're surrounded bysubdivisions and then the one
side we've got the lake and sothose adolescent males are
wandering.
The river funnels them asthey're looking for new
(25:45):
territory.
They get funneled along theriver, through the river valley
and occasionally do end up inthe park.
We'll see them on game camera afew days later.
Or we might get a guest or twocome in and say they saw one or
have a picture of one, and thenjust like that they're gone
again back out towards the lake.
Or they end up over off ofcanis or bowman, that far west
side of litter rock, and end uphaving to be relocated.
Most of the ones that come income through around us, around
(26:08):
Lake Maumau.
TJ (26:09):
That's cool.
You're going to take me andshow me the collared lizard.
We'll see one together, maybe.
Sam (26:13):
All right, yeah, we'll find one together, we'll go on the
hunt.
Daniel (26:17):
Is there any specific spots you like at any of the
parks?
I guess specifically Pinnacle.
Sam (26:26):
Do you have any like hidden gems or in that you'll tell
about?
Yeah, it's not hidden, it's onour maps.
But most people that come toPinnacle Mountain State Park
come for the mountain.
They come to go to Pinnacle,they go to that big field with
the playground and this WestSummit Trail to go up and they
don't even know that there's awhole other half of the park.
The mountain itself is like 300acres.
(26:47):
The park is 2,600.
There's two rivers that flowthrough the park.
We have five mountains in thepark.
So there's a lot of other trailthat people just don't realize
that they can even go to andexplore.
My favorite is the East QuarryTrail.
There's an old overlook in thisold quarry.
It's called the DickinsonOverlook.
From the old visitor centertake the Rocky Valley Trail and
(27:09):
on the backside of that you takea spur called the East Quarry
Trail up to that old quarry onthe far side of the valley and
you get up to that quarry.
There's an old overlook.
Up there there's an art pieceput in by the Parks Foundation
and you're over the Maumau River.
You're over the ParksFoundation and you're over the
Maumau River.
You're over the Arkansas Riverand you're looking back through
the park at all the other peaksand beautiful sunset spot,
(27:31):
really quiet.
That's where I see a lot of thewildlife in the park because
there's not a lot of people onthe trail, so that's probably my
favorite.
Daniel (27:38):
Okay, I didn't know that was back there.
It's from the old visitorcenter.
Okay, I've hiked down, you know, around those little loops down
there below it, but I haven'tbeen that far.
TJ (27:46):
I've only been to the peak.
I don't think I've ventured onany of the trails up there.
Daniel (27:50):
Oh man, we go to the Arboretum sometimes in that area
.
Sam (27:52):
That's a cool area, yep, another cool one.
We do have the water trail.
It's a game and fish trail onthe Little Maumelle.
You can get a beautiful view ofthe mountain from that river
and there's a kayak kiosk downthere.
You can go and swipe your cardand it unlocks life jackets,
paddles, the kayaks.
You can kayak the LittleMaumelle.
It spits into the Arkansas atRiver Mountain Park, right there
(28:14):
next to the 430.
Bridge, that's the headwaterswhere you can start floating,
where it becomes floatable is inthe West Summit parking lot.
Daniel (28:21):
Okay.
Sam (28:21):
Does that have that little playground right next to it?
Yeah, not, the little one withthe boat ramp and the fishing
pier.
That's the big Maumelle thatone spits out at Maumelle Park.
The campground, the Corps ofEngineers campground.
The West Summit area is the onewith the big field and the big
playground.
It's got bathrooms there.
The Kingfisher Trail is there,if you're familiar with that,
and then the West Summit Trailto go to the top.
(28:43):
That's all the West Summit area.
So if you go to the back ofthose parking lots, that's where
that water trail starts.
The Nature Conservancy has afloating camping platform out
there on the water that you canactually float to in a kayak.
You can reserve it and rent it.
You can put hammocks on it, itcan hold a tent.
It's got a changing room on it.
It's really cool.
Yeah, there there's somebeautiful views of the mountain.
You're floating throughbeautiful Cypress wetland and
(29:05):
lowland down there.
TJ (29:06):
Are there any climbing opportunities at Pinnacle?
I've noticed that when I'vebeen looking into climbers and
different things like thatlately that there's a few places
around the state that offerthat.
Sam (29:21):
So State Parks is working on climbing right now as it's
becoming more popular andeverything.
They're reviewing theirpolicies and stuff.
Right now there's no climbingthe pinnacle.
There are some old boltedroutes from back before state
parks really started enforcingno climbing that weren't bolted
by the park or anything.
I don't even think they werebolted by the climbing coalition
, I think it was just likerandom bolted routes and so if
you go and climb those, we won'tstop people.
(29:41):
They aren't on our trail mapsor anything.
It's two slab routes.
They're like a five, nine, five, eight, something like that,
and they're top rope only.
If you do go, you'll have towalk to the top via a side path,
set up your top rope and thendo it top rope.
There are changes coming, we'refiguring out policies, we're
trying to accommodate for thatrecreation, but right now you
(30:03):
can go immediately next door tous to rattlesnake, and there's
like 80 or 90 routes over there.
There's a ton of climbing onRattlesnake Ridge, trad, sport,
bouldering, it's all, and it'sless than five minutes from the
park.
TJ (30:16):
I've done some research for the podcast and stuff.
I've seen that a lot ofclimbers are saying that
Arkansas is a good spot.
Sam (30:31):
It's got some good places to go and it'd be cool to see
those more accessible to thepublic.
TJ (30:34):
Yeah, I'm excited for it.
I'm ready for it.
We just got to make it sure wedo it in a responsible and
ethical way for the resourcesthat we're handling sure makes
sense.
So climbing, kayaking, hiking,what are the biking
opportunities like there?
Sam (30:43):
we've got tons of bike trails in the park, including a
brand new downhill.
It's a downhill jump track,okay.
I mean you can be going fivemiles an hour and hit those
kickers on those and fly.
It's called chaotic zone, justopened.
I don't want to give an exactnumber because I don't remember
the exact.
It's around 30 miles of biketrail at pinnacle.
They're called the monumenttrails.
They're funded by the parksfoundation.
(31:03):
Trails are really, really niceif you like biking the Monument
Trails in general across ourstate parks.
At Pinnacle I think they're alittle bit harder than they need
to be, but our terrain that'swhat it allows.
All of our easy trails, ourbeginner trails, I would put
(31:24):
more at an intermediate level,and some of our harder trails
I'd put as like an actual likeblack diamond route.
If you're just hopping on abike and wanting to explore, or
if you're wanting a nice, light,easy ride, there are a lot of
places around us that are goingto be better suited for that.
If you're wanting to pushyourself and challenge yourself,
come on out.
TJ (31:42):
Yeah, no, that's not me Okay .
Daniel (31:46):
For sure.
We've rode some at Burns Park.
They were pretty good, but Ihaven't rode mountain bikes in a
long time.
TJ (31:52):
Yeah, I've got several good friends that are into it like
heavy, but it's not somethingthat I've got into yet.
I would like to go somewherewhere there's a really good
downhill, some good scenery, tosee along the way and experience
it.
Just to give it a chance, yeah,to see if it's something I
could be interested in, but it'snever been something I'm like,
yeah, I just want to go do that.
Yeah, we also heard thatpinnacle got a track chair
(32:15):
recently.
Yeah, it did.
How's that going?
Sam (32:17):
it's cool, yeah it uses some of the bike trails, some of
our bike trails.
We've adjusted to accommodatefor it and, yeah, you don't
reserve it through state parks,you reserve it through I think
it's called accessibility acrossarkansas yep, we've actually
got them scheduled to be on theepisode before too long.
TJ (32:33):
Oh cool, yeah, excited about that one we've got a track
chair.
Sam (32:36):
I think they're looking at trying to get us a second one.
Maybe it's popular.
Really neat to see againanother partnership that's
getting people outdoors, gettingpeople accessible spaces in the
outdoors.
TJ (32:48):
My grandmother was handicapped and so, seeing that
is important to me she alwayswanted to go to state parks.
There were cool things when shewas active where she could have
a discount, camping and thatkind of thing because of being
handicapped, but it would havebeen cool to have more things
that were accessible, becauseshe would have enjoyed it.
She was limited to four-wheelerriding, being on boats and
staying close to the camperpretty much.
Daniel (33:10):
Yeah, she had polio when she was younger, so she didn't
get around for a while.
So it sounds like you get a lotof people that don't do a ton
of outdoor stuff that come topinnacle with questions.
You were saying how, what'syour kind of your go-to message
to get them interested in it?
Sam (33:26):
I don't think I have a go-to message.
I think it's more catered tothe individual.
Someone comes and asks me aquestion.
It's kind of obvious that theyaren't comfortable in the
outdoors or haven't spent a lotof time in there.
The first thing I would do,probably, is say, well, what
brought you here today?
And then find out what theirinterest is, what initially
brought them, and then try andconnect them with that in a safe
and enjoyable way.
That would be the first thing Iwould do.
(33:47):
So if you came up to me andasked about bear specifically or
something well, did you comehere to try and find bear?
Did you know that Arkansas usedto be the bear state?
Start going into this more ofthat history, that information
there, and then try and tellthem their best chance to see
one If they want to see one.
Here's the time of year thatthey migrate and are more
commonly spotted.
Here's some of our state parksin arkansas that you can go to,
(34:08):
where it's common to see a bearif you're wanting to experience
that.
Here's the tools to to try anddo it, okay yeah that makes
sense that's good
TJ (34:19):
do you find you talk to people.
When they come back, they seekyou out and find you.
Sam (34:22):
Yeah, like how you got me into this, yep we I have a lot
of regulars at the park thatthey'll come to the visitor
center and be like hey, sam,around, there's one of the other
interpreters around, can youtell me what this is?
And it's a photo of a mushroomor it's a photo of a beetle or
something.
And once they find out thatthat resource is in the park
(34:44):
and's bring our kids to theplayground on the weekends and
they find out that they have aresource there where oh, if I
want to learn more about this,the park has that resource for
me.
TJ (34:51):
They'll start using it yeah, you find it easier to tell
people about those thingsthrough your camera or through
conversation um I.
Sam (35:03):
I think it's easier through conversation, but I like the
challenge of a photo.
When I'm taking landscapephotography, I'm wanting people
to connect to what I'm shooting,right.
So I think that's where thatchallenge comes in.
It's again what's my subject?
What am I making the subject ofthis photograph and how am I
(35:24):
promoting it?
What am I doing to make itattractive?
What am I doing to make itattractive?
What am I doing to make peopleyearn to go there?
How am I getting someone to putthemselves into this photograph
and feel like they're there andwant to be there and ignite
that passion for that place inthem?
And that's the challenge to mein photography that I like.
That's what draws me to shoot.
But I think it's a lot easierfor me to just sit and have a
(35:46):
conversation with someone.
Daniel (35:47):
So what role do you think photography plays in
conservation?
Sam (35:51):
Well, it goes right back to the last one.
If you can invoke thosefeelings in someone through a
photograph, then you can capturetheir heart.
You can give them a reason towant to protect that.
Then maybe they'll be morelikely to fight for it.
TJ (36:08):
I think that's true with, like, the collared lizard.
You know we can sit here andtalk about lizards all day long
and until you see a photo of thecollared lizard, you're not
going to be that concerned withit.
If we're honest, most of thelizards we see in Arkansas are
like the little brown.
Sam (36:21):
Yeah, the southern fence lizards or the anoles skinks,
yeah they're just not thatexciting.
TJ (36:25):
But when you see that Arkansas actually has a blue
green, 18 inch long malecollared lizard, you know that's
pretty cool.
Sam (36:34):
And with a iguana running around over here.
TJ (36:36):
So is that the draw for you to be an interpreter is to
interest other people inoutdoors and conserving those
spaces.
Sam (36:43):
Yeah, it's to connect them to the outdoors, but more
importantly, it's to help themfind their own passion.
I'm not here to tell them hey,this is what recreation you want
to do, this is what recreationyou need to do.
It's what recreation do youwant to do and how can I connect
you with that?
What resource are youpassionate about and how can I
help you find that connectionhere?
TJ (37:01):
Yeah, that's the same with us.
That's what we're wanting to dowith.
The podcast is like we want tohelp people find that thing to
get them plugged in.
Daniel (37:09):
He's a hunter, I'm more of a hiker.
You have bike riding, you haverock climbing, you have all
these things.
So that's why we're trying topiece people together, to hit
all those areas, becauseeverything don't speak to
everybody.
TJ (37:20):
That's what we want to recreate is showing people the
magic of the outdoors and givingthem a reason to want to save
it and nurture it, steward it.
Daniel (37:29):
Yeah, so are most of your peers also in the outdoors
that you hang out with.
I assume it probably gearstoward that a little bit, but I
wouldn't say that most of myfriends are outdoorsy.
Sam (37:39):
I'd say it's a healthy mix.
If I want to go hiking orcamping, I've got a bunch of
people I can call that are downand most of the time to yeah,
let's hit the trail.
But if I want to stay in andplay video games, I've got
friends that I can call and belike hey, leo, let's spend a
weekend playing the Halocampaigns or something like that
.
I feel blessed in that way.
TJ (37:59):
Yeah, that's good when you're seeing park goers these
days.
Do you feel like there's a goodmix?
Of age groups, or you're seeinga lot more younger people these
days experiencing the parks.
What's the demographic looklike?
Sam (38:13):
the demographic at my park is a little bit different from
other parks.
We're very front country.
I feel like there's a huge mix.
We've got ada accessible trails.
We've got paved trails.
We get the regulars that comeevery morning with their walkers
and their wheelchairs to to goout and experience nature and
wildlife right and experiencethat.
But we've got playgrounds withlittle kids running around.
(38:34):
We've got middle-aged mountainbikers that are out hitting the
trails on their lunch break orhitting it before they go to the
brewery at the end of the day.
We've got families that aredriving through visiting.
Oh, let's look up things to doin Litteraca.
So huge variety here.
Yep, oh, let's look up thingsto do in Litteraca so huge
variety here.
TJ (38:50):
Yeah, Is there a certain demographic that you like got a
heart for that?
You're like man.
I just enjoy the kids, yeah.
Sam (38:59):
Honestly, middle school, high schoolers, that's like my
ideal.
If there's a couple ofdifferent groups wanting to come
out to the park and have aguided hike or education
programming and I can pickbetween two, I'll pick the older
ones every time.
TJ (39:12):
Why is that, do you think?
Sam (39:13):
I think it's because at that age they kind of know a
little bit more about wheretheir passions lie and where
their pursuits lie.
I feel like I can be moreimpactful in helping them
through the next step.
They found the door and now I'mhelping them walk through it.
We've got so many games and somany hikes and programs and
(39:35):
activities for kids and I lovethat.
I love it.
They might remember it whenthey're older, and I hope that
they do yeah, the older ones.
I feel like we can go deeper,and that's what I want.
TJ (39:43):
Yeah, is there anything that park goers do that just like
really gets on your nerves?
Sam (39:50):
well, I will preface this, yeah, by saying I will never be
mad that someone is gettingoutdoors and exploring public
spaces.
I'll never be upset thatsomeone took the time and the
effort and the energy to come toan outdoor space to try and
experience something.
It is my job to educate if theyaren't doing it with the best
(40:12):
ethics.
So a lot of what annoys me orfrustrates me is something that
can be simply fixed througheducation.
It's like people rock stacking.
I know that's such a divisivesubject.
Everyone is a resource expertand everyone's all about leave
no trace.
Leave no trace.
Hey, we need to protect thespace.
(40:32):
And then you go on Facebook andsee a rock stack post and the
same people that are saying thatare fighting to the tooth and
nail that they should be allowedto stack rocks.
Just the leave no traceprinciples.
Stay on the trail.
Some of the parks I've worked atnot just my current one we deal
with massive erosion problemsfrom people cutting switchbacks.
They see the trail right downbelow them and right down below
(40:54):
them and right down below themand instead of taking the
switchbacks down that hill, theygo straight down.
It causes a ton of problems andit causes the parks a ton of
money to try and fix Lots ofgraffiti.
And again I get that peoplewant to leave their mark right.
For thousands of years,thousands of years, people have
been leaving their mark onplaces right.
(41:15):
If you go to the top ofPinnacle right now, you can find
graffiti from the late 1800s,early 1900s, scotch into the
Rocks, petty Jean.
Same way, if you ever go toPetty Jean State Park, there's
graffiti there that is old andthen there's graffiti there
that's considered rock art atthis point.
Right, we've got Native Americanpictographs at that park in
multiple places, hundreds ofpictographs across the mountain,
(41:38):
documented and, I'm sure, evenmore undocumented.
When does it stop beinggraffiti and start being a
historic resource?
So I get that people want toleave their mark, but the best
ethics, the best practices thatwe're learning and promoting
nowadays are leave no trace,right, we want to leave nothing
but footprints and take nothingbut pictures, and so trying to
(42:01):
educate people on that thatmight not understand that, that
might've not come from abackground where they were
taught that growing up theyhaven't been taught better.
TJ (42:09):
I think I take that for granted.
There's a lot of things.
I know not to leave trash.
I know not to stack rocks.
I don't do it.
I don't let my kids do it.
I don't even let my kids turnover rocks if I can help it.
But I take that for grantedbecause I was taught that.
I think that's what makes yougood at what you do.
Is the fact that you have aconcern like that for people.
I wouldn't be as patient,probably, as what you are and as
(42:33):
gentle and, just being honest,I would be a little more miffed
about it.
Probably.
That's probably what makes youperfect for the job.
Thanks, yeah.
Daniel (42:40):
So here's a new little section.
On this one it's just a rapidfire questions just kind of in
the segment here.
So when you're out there takingphotos, sunrise or sunset, Ooh
sunrise Okay, mountain or river.
Sam (42:53):
Mountain.
Daniel (42:54):
What's your favorite Arkansas critter?
Sam (42:56):
Oh man, now you really got me thinking Salamanders.
Daniel (43:01):
And then what's your worst bug encounter.
I guess this kind of slows downa little bit.
Sam (43:05):
I have been stung by a tarantula hawk before in the
shoulder blade while I was weedwhacking Could not raise that
arm for two days.
Zero out of 10 would notrecommend.
Also been stung by a velvet cowant the red velvet ant.
TJ (43:16):
I've seen them never been stung by one.
Sam (43:18):
Don't do it.
They're gentle.
I've held them before.
I'm not recommending you holdwildlife that can be potentially
dangerous, to clarify.
But I was holding one.
I wasn't at work or anything, Iwas just with some friends and
I'm showing them and I set itdown back on the ground and just
continued talking to them andas I set it down on the ground
it crawled across my foot and Iwas in flip-flops and I tried to
(43:39):
just brush it off and it gotcaught under my sandal strap and
stung me twice in the foot andI could only wear sandals for
about a week.
I mean, swe up, bad.
TJ (43:48):
They say they're pretty painful.
Sam (43:49):
Yeah, those and the trench locks, both.
They're in like the top five orwhatever.
TJ (43:54):
Was that your coyote Peterson experience?
Sam (43:56):
Yeah, that's where.
That's where it began, yeah.
TJ (43:58):
Yeah.
Sam (44:00):
I've seen his episodes on both of those and I can confirm
that they were that bad he wasnot exaggerating.
Yeah.
Daniel (44:11):
I'll pour one out for him any day.
So what's your photo you'remost proud of?
Sam (44:14):
that no one sees?
Hmm, probably photos of myfamily.
TJ (44:16):
Yeah, you know I'll.
Sam (44:17):
I'll take family photos and stuff.
I'm not posting those anywhere,I'm not putting them on
Facebook, I'm not putting themon Instagram or anything.
Just a family reunion photo andwe can all get our high quality
photo to put in our livingrooms and stuff.
They can look at this photothat I've taken of the whole
family and able to see all thatand and keep that history in
those memories.
TJ (44:35):
Yeah, so where can people see your photos and get in touch
with you if they just want totalk to you?
Sam (44:41):
Instagramcom slash Sam files.
TJ (44:44):
Got it down.
Sam (44:45):
Yep, think of it like Sam's files, but files is my last
name, so it works out.
Yeah, that's perfect Sam files.
TJ (44:51):
Cool, that's a cool last name to be born with.
Yeah, thanks, picked it outmyself.
So, in closing, if you couldgive a message to people who are
listening to get them into theoutdoors, what would it be?
Sam (45:10):
I think it would be.
Don't be afraid to get out andexplore.
So many people are held backbecause it's unknown.
The outdoors is an unknown to alot of people.
Well, there could be snakes,there could be spiders, there
could be yeah, there could be,there will be, but don't be
afraid of that.
If you want to start somewheresmall, come to a state park.
Go on a guided hike with anexpert that's a resource expert
(45:32):
and can tell you everything thatyou're experiencing.
That can keep you safe whileyou're doing it.
Start small like that and buildyour way up to as far as you
want to go, but don't let thefear of the unknown keep you
from exploring an amazing worldcool.
Daniel (45:48):
Well, we appreciate you coming out, enjoyed it.
I hope you enjoyed it.
Sure, we'll see you around.
Sam (45:53):
Yeah, I've had a lot of fun .
So thank you all for invitingme out and bring me on the show.
And, yeah, if y'all ever needanything or any of the listeners
need anything, that's that'swhat I'm here for.
So, yeah, I'm out.
We're going to float yeah,we'll do it.
Daniel (46:08):
Thanks so much.
Thank you thanks for tuning into this episode of natural
obsession.
Big thanks to sam files fortaking time out of his schedule
to share some stories from thefield and the frame.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, be sure to follow
us on instagram at natob podcast, and on facebook at natural
obsession.
We've got more great guests andoutdoor stories coming your way
(46:30):
.
See you next time.
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