#46 Rolling with the Future; Roz Rolls and a Vision of Hope

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:32):
The.

(00:56):
Welcome to The Nonsense in theChaos.
I'm your host, Jolie Rose.
Today's interview is so excitingbecause I didn't, oh, I did
know, but I had forgotten thatRo Rolls was gonna be back in
SARC when I got back fromGlastonbury and I.
We spent a Sunday night hangingout with each other.
She came here for dinner andthen it occurred to me that I

(01:17):
could interview her while shewas here for Nonsense in the
chaos, and she was able to do iton the Monday night, and then
that means I've been able to getit out this week.
It's extremely exciting becauseshe is.
One of the coolest people I'veever met.
We met round a fire at the Nook,in Sarc, which is our little
special fire pit that's like acommunal fireplace that we can

(01:38):
all hang out under the starswhere we can watch the sunset.
And I met her and it was likebeing in a sacred circle with
elders, which I've had theprivilege of doing a few times
and.
I just fell in love with herand, and it was such an
inspiring conversation.
She really knows her stuff on aspiritual and political level

(02:02):
and scientific level.
She knows about things and I.
I just loved talking to her andI had no idea what we were gonna
talk about or which direction itwas gonna go in, but I knew it
was gonna be awesome and shedidn't let me down.
So it was actually quite a longpodcast, but I hope you will
enjoy it and I can't wait toshare it with you.
So with no further delay, hereis the awesome roles, roles.

(02:38):
Excellent.
So here we are.
I'm here on sarc and I'minterviewing my friend Ro uh,
Ross Rose.
She just found out it's actuallyher surname.
Yeah.
And Roz is an old friend wholived in SARC before I moved
here and then left just as Imoved over, which I was really
gutted about.
Yeah, I reckon.
I was like, no, that's myfavorite person.

(03:00):
Um, and she's gone back to NewZealand, which is where you're
from, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
So tell us a bit about how youended up, well, tell us where
you're from and how you ended upin soc.
Yeah.
Oh, I'm from, uh, New Zealandfrom, um, in the Cook Islands.
My family's from the CookIslands too, but yeah.
Uh, mostly from Christchurch,New Zealand.
Mm-hmm.
Or also grew up in Wellington.

(03:21):
But, um, yeah, I was justtraveling, working and traveling
around the world and I ended up,uh, stopping in Guernsey.
Mm-hmm.
And that's how I sort of gotintroduced tos and then.
Yeah.
What set you off travelingaround the world in the first
place?
What was the real reason to Uh,I was so curious about the
world.
Yeah.
And living on New Zealand,you're quite isolated.
Yeah.

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And um, yeah, I was just reallywanted to get out and see, and
where I was living was a bit ofa hole.
Mm-hmm.
And I was just dying to leaveactually.
Yeah.
You know, dying to leave NewZealand, but Yeah.
Just to explore the world.
Because you're Murray, is thatright?
Yeah, my nana's a Cook Islander.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So she's from the Cook Islands.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And my dad.
So just a Pake Kiwi.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Because I remember you sayingwhen I met you,'cause I met you

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on the fire at the Nook.
Yeah.
Which was awesome.
And we had a really amazingnight.
And you talked about, and Idon't, if you don't wanna talk
about this, that's fine.
It was just, it was somethingyou told me at the time, which
was that your family are allblack and then you had very
white skin.
Yeah.
And so you had a quite adifferent sort of experience
growing up to your relations inthat you were white.
Yeah.
And so you kind of wanted to getto know the world of the white

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people a bit more andunderstand.
Yeah.
Culture a bit more of the whitepeople, is that right?
Yeah.
Well, it's, it's sort of right.
But it's, um, yeah, I did likemy family is, you know,
multicultural.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, but yeah, definitely alot of them are a lot darker
than I am.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, and then I grew up,especially as a teenager in, and
that, you know, a lot of MaoriPolynesian, uh, people and they

(04:46):
were, I was good friends withthem.
Mm.
But then, um, but that'sactually, yeah, I, I moved there
when I was a teenager toWellington.
Mm-hmm.
And up until that stage, likeliving in Christchurch as a
younger kid, a lot of peoplewere all mixed blood.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't even know about racism.
Yeah.
I didn't even know it existed.
Yeah.
And then I lived in the CookIslands for a bit, and that was
awesome, you know?
Yeah.
And, um, got to learn a lot moreabout the island side of my wau

(05:08):
Yeah.
Of my family.
And then I moved to, inWellington and.
There was just this huge classand cultural divide.
Yeah.
I had never even expect, knewthat happened.
And there was a lot of likeMaori Polynesian probably living
in states houses.
And then there was a lot ofwealthy white people living in
more, uh, you know, rich areas,you know?
Yeah.
Fancy places.

(05:28):
Yeah.
And there, there was all this,some racism and like, oh, you
know, the fucking park yards orthis white bitch and all this.
And, and I, I was reallyconflicted'cause a lot of my
friends were all MaoriPolynesian.
Mm-hmm.
But, you know, so I was sort ofwith all this group, but at the
same time I was feeling verywith the way I looked.
Mm-hmm.
And then sometimes I'd be like,oh, you know, don't say that.
And they'd be like, oh no, don'tworry.

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You know, I'd say, oh, don't saythat.
You know, I'm white.
They'd be like, oh, no, no,you're not really you, you're ro
but I would felt white.
You wouldn't know looking at me.
You know?
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So that was really conflicting.
And also at the same time, uh,on the new, uh, like from
school, we're learning about thecolonization and yeah.
All these terrible things thatthe English did.
So it made me really angry atEnglish people.
Yeah.
Made me really angry at Frenchpeople because of all the

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nuclear testing in the Pacificand all that.
Yeah.
So, as a teenager and then Iwas, you know, sort of angry.
I didn't wanna know, I didn'treally have any interest in, in
that side of my heritage becauseI seen it was quite negative,
you know?
Mm-hmm.
But, um.
Yeah.
And there was a lot of probablynegative things going on at the
time, so that's why I justcouldn't wait to leave.
Mm.
But it wasn't until I, I cameand I eventually, I ended up

(06:32):
living in Ireland, in Dublin.
Mm-hmm.
And most of my ancestry fromIreland.
Mm.
And I was suddenly like, oh,this is beautiful.
And the people were live there.
The culture was like, oh, thisis nothing to be ashamed of.
Yeah.
And then the more, and then Iended up living in the uk or
living here and living in Franceand realizing that it's not
really the people.
Yeah.
It's, you know, the system.
It's the system.
It's the system.

(06:53):
And people here, like, uh, theEuropeans were colonized many
years before and suppressed oftheir, you know, traditions and
understandings and it's just acycle that's been repeated and
then came and obviously happenedto New Zealand and a lot of the
colonies.
Yeah.
So, so it was really eyeopeningfor me.
Yeah.
And, you know, to understand,oh, everyone's been, it's just

(07:13):
another cycle.
Yeah.
So it was really healing.
Yeah.
You know, and I could let go ofall that sort of stuff and be
real proud of everything.
All my ancestry, yeah.
I just think all those years ofburning witches or whatever
they've done, or Well, and theSaxons,'cause we had the two
tier, it's interesting beinghere because this is where the
Normans came from.
Yeah.
You know, this is the part ofthe Norman William the Conquer

(07:33):
land.
Yeah.
And, um, and the, and it, theNormans created, you know, a two
tier cost system in the UK whereyou had the Saxons who spoke
Saxon.
And that's why you have adifferent word for pig to pork,
which was the French word, whichis what the rich people ate.
Yeah.
The, the poor people didn't getto eat the meat.
The poor people reared the meat.

(07:53):
Oh yeah.
And so for them it was pig andcow and chicken.
Yeah.
And then for the French, it was.
Colette and beef at so there wastwo languages, I think up until
that point it had been a lotmore of like mishmash of kings,
of different kings and you havepen dragons and different
tribes.
And then with Will theconqueror, it became like he was
in charge of the whole place.

(08:14):
Oh, wow.
And, and yeah.
So there was that French castsystem that came in and, and
even now, and that, and theyspoke Latin.
And so, you know, rich, wealthypeople have been speaking Latin
for ages and yeah, the poorpeople didn't even know what the
Bible was really saying.
It was just being translated tothem by the priest cast and,
yeah, that's right.
Eh?
Yeah.
Crazy times.
It's so mad.
It is so mad.
Yeah.

(08:34):
So we've all been colonizedunless you're one of the
wealthy, then.
At some point your people hadtheir land taken from them and
Yeah.
Yeah.
And a lot of the culturesuppressed or stripped away.
Yeah.
And their language and theknowledge, different languages
and Yeah.
All of those things.
Different things.
Yeah.
And your tribe, like the meansof our tribes, we forgot all of
it.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, at least the New Zealand,they keep the name of the tribe,

(08:56):
you know that.
Yeah.
But then I guess it wasn't solong ago.
No, exactly.
It's only the 1840s really, soYeah.
Yeah.
It was a thousand, a thousandyears ago.
Oh, it's winning the conqueror'sbirthday this year.
I think we're about to startdoing, winning in the conquer,
like Norman celebrations overhere.
Um, and it's, so yeah, it's athousand years since his birth.
Okay.

(09:16):
So yeah, so, so it's been athousand years since we were
colonized, so yeah.
A lot of knowledge has beenforgotten and lost.
And is that the British is thatwere colonized by in the
conquer, yes.
But in the conqueror, like, um,uh, um, the king died in England
and he'd done quite a good jobof sort of uniting all of the.
The Lords and the other kings.
So he did sort of become kind ofa head king.

(09:38):
Yeah.
Um, but he didn't have a clearsuccession.
And so, uh, there was a fewpeople that were contenders and
one of them was Harold, who atsome point had promised William
that he would give him the crownof England, if ever it came his
way.
Um, and he'd sworn on, uh, uh,saint's bones over in France at
some point.

(09:58):
And so when, uh, the, the kingbefore died, I can't remember
what his name was, um, Williamwas like, well, I, I should be
getting my throne.
And it was like, it was areally, it was probably the most
epic battle in the whole ofhuman history in that Harold had
like gone and fought his brotherup north.
And it was this crazy fightwhere one guy is a myth, I

(10:20):
think, but one guy like held abridge for hours on his own and
then someone sneaked upunderneath the bridge and stuck
a spear up through his legsbecause he was just like
slaughtering everyone and camefast.
And they done that battle andhad won that.
And then.
Uh, heard that William hadlanded down south and they had
to leg it from the north all theway down south to try and fight
down in the south.

(10:41):
And um, the Normans were justmuch more, uh, by that point.
Like efficient fighters.
They had horses, they usedhorses, whereas the Saxons were
way more like old school, youknow, just charging him axes and
that kind of thing was theNormans did shield protection
like the Romans used to do.
And yeah, they were just muchmore, they had castles and Yeah.
Yeah.
Like the Saxons were all inwooden huts and stuff, so Oh.

(11:03):
They just seemed like AI to theSaxon world.
It was like people coming inwith tanks and Yeah.
So, and that was only a thousandyears ago.
That was only a thousand yearsago.
It's not even long.
Really?
It's like when you think aboutit, it's like how many
generations?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then in the 18 hundredsthere was the land, um, uh,

(11:23):
enclosures act.
Mm-hmm.
So they used to be common landwhere people used to be able to
farm and keep their animals.
And then one day the rich justwent.
I'm putting a fence up.
Yeah.
And they just put fences up andsaid it was now theirs.
Yeah.
And the common people tried tofight against it.
And there was a group called theLevelers, which is, do you know
the band, the Levelers?
Yeah, I do know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what they're named after wasthis group of, um, men and women
who fought against the landenclosures.

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And there were children.
It was, it was a whole communityof people and they carried on
farming.
And some people who had beenpaid, some mercenaries were
there on the horseback and theyran through them and they just
said, we don't want kill you,but we've been paid to kill you.
We're here, we have to kill youif you don't stop.
And they refused to stop.
And so they came back throughand killed them all, chop them

(12:06):
up and tied their bodies so thatthey could like, put them on
sticks.
And they prayed around all ofthe neighboring towns and
villages with these body partsand said, this is what happens
if you don't do it.
You're told.
Yeah.
And that's when we lost ourland.
And up until that point, theearth was everybody's.
Yeah.
And then from then onwards itwas, it was all enclosed and
suddenly then only footpaths.

(12:27):
Connect, you know, you've stillgot footpaths, but that's it.
Otherwise land's all loaned andcarved up.
Mm-hmm.
Oh man.
And that wasn't, that was the1800, that was like 17 hundreds.
I think it was late 17 hundreds,early 18 hundreds.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
That almost sounds like asimilar story to party haka in
New Zealand.
Right.
What happened there?
Tell the story of what happenedthere.
I have to remember the exact,uh, details, but I know it was

(12:48):
very similar where the Maoriwere farming the land and the
pake were taken off them, andwhether I think the Maori were
kept putting up the fences.
Mm-hmm.
So, so that they could havetheir crops in that, but they
would keep getting destroyed andthen they would keep putting
them up and it was like apeaceful protest.
They weren't even mm-hmm.
That's what it's famous for.
Um, and then the, the Englisharmies would take away all the

(13:11):
men and put them in caves.
Mm-hmm.
And then the woman and childrenwould come and do the same.
But pretty much similar, like,you know.
Yeah.
It wasn't, yeah.
It's the thing that I keepcoming back to at the moment and
I keep trying to like get acrossto younger people is that it's
all made up.
Yeah.
You know, this is all made up.
Yeah.
Someone at some point decidedthis is the way things are and

(13:33):
then laws were written tosupport it.
Yeah.
And that's it.
That's right.
That's how we now are governed.
Yeah.
But it's not real.
No.
And we're just inheriting thesethings and thinking that it's
the way it is.
I think it's true.
Yeah.
No way.
It's crazy.
And also that wealthy people arelike some other breed of people,
like as if there's somethingdifferent.
And that's been the thing that'sbeen so interesting moving here
and living and working, andespecially being in chief police

(13:55):
in amongst like really, reallywealthy people.
Yeah.
And just being like, oh, you areabsolutely normal.
Which I know is completelyobvious.
Yeah.
But they, they're so in the newsand on media and everything,
they're so, um.
What's the word?
Fetishized.
Mm.
You know, like Downton Abbey or,you know.
Yeah.
There's always these series thatpeople watch that are just like,

(14:15):
yeah.
Oh, which people are this thing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And here's their values andhere's the and.
And they seem different.
Mm.
But when you actually arereally, and amongst each other
on a day-to-day basis, you'relike, no, you are absolutely
just the same as me.
Yeah.
And you just inherited a, a wayof being.
And then what I've been sadabout, because I was initially
quite like impressed by that, Iwas like, oh, that's really

(14:37):
cool.
And then people have ended upbeing such a dickers.
But you literally have hadgeneration after generation, and
even if you are new to it,you've come into this world
where.
You know, I'm watching a, a TVshow at the moment called
Harlots, which I love, and itcame out like in probably 2018,
2019.
And I loved it then, and Ihadn't seen it since.
Yeah.
And it's of the prostitutes inthe 17 hundreds, and I think the

(14:59):
17 hundreds was probably the,one of the hardest times in
history because you had, youstill had all the, what's the
word?
Superstitions and, uh, tortureand, and like, um, diseases of
the medieval times.
Yeah.
So you, you know, everyone hadPS and, uh, were getting hung
and hung, drawn and quartered,and people believed in

(15:19):
witchcraft and that kind ofthing.
Yeah.
But you had a lot of moderntechnology, so it was just
coming into the industrial age.
Yeah.
So they were using like modernweapons, but they, the medicine
hadn't caught up yet.
Mm.
So there was a lot of, like,muck of the industrial
revolution, but it hadn't, youknow, we didn't have flushing
water or any, you know,everything was just kind of
gross.
And um, and these prostitutes,like, it was such a huge thing.

(15:42):
So many women were prostitutes'cause that was the only option
they had, but they were beingtreated like appallingly.
Oh yeah.
And you just watching the showand you're just like, this is
what rich people think they cando and how they can behave
because they just see otherhuman beings and it's like
slavery.
Yeah.
You know, they see other humanhumans just as a commodity.
Yeah.
And to be able to get into thatmindset where you can treat
people that badly when you areall the same.

(16:04):
Yeah.
Means that you've, you have putyourself into some kind of place
in your head that thinks thatyou can do that.
Yeah.
And that's pretty horrifying.
But yeah, it's, I, I mean Ithink probably slavery had a lot
to do with it actually, becausethere's always been slavery.
Yeah.
Like that's as old as time.
Yeah, that's right.
It used to be, I think, morepeople that you'd been at war
with, you know, people you'dbattled with.

(16:25):
You'd take prisoners and peoplewould be made slave and stuff.
But the like level of doing itthat was happening in the 18
hundreds where it was justbecome a huge industry.
Yeah.
You just have to have like lostyour humanity to some extent to
have done all of that.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And that's what made half thesepeople all the money that
they've got.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
The blood of other people.

(16:45):
Yeah, that's right.
Eh, it's crazy.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So what did you feel like youlearned from, from coming to
Europe and, oh, I learned somuch, like I.
At that first stage when I movedto Dublin, I really felt home
there and it really made me likeproud of my, um, you know, my
European heritage.
And, um, yeah.

(17:06):
And I loved it.
And it became a home.
And I lived in France and otherplaces after that, but often I'd
go back to Ireland feeling home.
Mm.
And then eventually years later,I moved tos and this became like
a HomeAway from, you know, it'sbeen beautiful, but living here
it was, um, by the time I camehere, I had three kids already.
Yeah.
So, um, I was a bit moregrounded than just traveling and
working and all that sort ofthing.

(17:28):
And I was getting really intogardening and plants.
Yeah.
Ands is just incredible for, youknow, the wild plants of the
British Isles that you get tosee here.
Yeah.
And, or, you know, of north ofFrance and that.
So yeah, I was just likelearning so much and started
learning a lot about the cultictraditions and that Yeah.
Which I didn't know anythingabout up until then.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, and, and studyingpermaculture as well, which was

(17:51):
all combined with that.
But yeah, no, it was reallyamazing.
'cause I just saw so manycorrelations and similarities
with Al Maori and theirunderstanding of like how
everything's interconnected.
And like in Al Maori weunderstand, which is, um, Al
Maori means, uh, the worldview,Maori worldview Uhhuh, you know,
and Tao was like the universe.

(18:12):
Yeah.
And t Maori is like theworldview of from Maori, and
they understand Mother Earth isPapa Sky father.
And like, um, the spirit ofMaori is the spirit of life
that's in everything andeveryone and all this and yeah.
And it was so beautiful.
And the more I learned about allthese traditions I saw, oh,
there's so many beautiful, youknow, a lot of understandings.

(18:34):
Mm-hmm.
Even the stars that they werelooking at, even though we're on
the other side of the world,were similar, you know, similar
stories.
Yeah.
Similar stories like Pilates,which is our Yeah.
You know, the Seven Sisters.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because that, like those oldGreek, um, mythologies where
those sisters, uh, they're,they're sisters, those stars.
Yeah.
In a Maori, um, in, in the mostcommon stories of Maki, they're

(18:57):
also sisters.
Ah, you know, but each andbecause they're in Australia as
well.
Yeah.
Isn't it interesting?
Blue Mountains, they have theseven sisters.
Oh, right.
And and it's the sameconsolation.
It's the same constellation.
Yeah.
Isn't it interesting Isn't howthey get this female and in some
of the Maori, um, and especiallysome that are more, you know,
also'cause each tribe had theirdifferent stories.
Yeah.
Some of them, they're not allwomen, but, but they do always

(19:19):
tend to represent, each starrepresents a, um, whether it's a
different aspect, whether itcould be like pta, ka the star
as the, the goddess of theunderworld.
Mm-hmm.
And often pua trees are growingon the cliff and they've got
their long whining, um, rootsthat go down into the, down the
cliff.
And that was like seen as theway that people's spirits might

(19:40):
go to the underworld.
Oh, wow.
And then you have other starsthat are to represent like, um,
Kai Moana, like seafood.
Uh, sea, uh, food from the seaor food from freshwater or food
from the forest and all thesedifferent stars or some will be
about rain and storms.
And they would watch these starswhen they rose in the, um, they

(20:03):
used to rise, well, actually inNew Zealand, the shortest day,
our midwinter solstice is likeJune 20, you know, opposite to
here.
Yeah, the opposite.
Yeah.
June 21st.
Yeah.
And, and for the Maori people,this is their New Year Uhhuh.
Surprise.
Surprise.
The end of one cycle, thebeginning of a new, and this was
the time of the Mai Stars.
Stars rising Uhhuh because they,in late March, they start to

(20:24):
set, or late May it is, theystart to set and you don't see
them for a bit.
Mm-hmm.
And they start to rise againaround this time of Maki.
And that's when they would bestudied for this week of Maki.
And, um, they were looking, ifthe constellation was very
clear, it might be a good year.
Mm-hmm.
And if one particular part ofit, like say the, the, you know,
the freshwater food star wasvery clear, it could be a real

(20:46):
good season for freshwater food.
Oh wow.
That's, or if it was reallyfuzzy, it might be, you know, a
bad year for, you know, so thisis how they would predict their
year coming.
Wow.
And it would also be the timewhen they'd start preparing
their foods are their fields forthe, which is the sweet potato.
Yeah.
Which was something that theybought, uh, with them to New
Zealand as amazing voyage asthey were.
Oh.
Which they would've traded withSouth America.

(21:07):
So they, they knew the Pacific,they knew that Pacific.
They were back and forth and allaround them.
It's mad.
So do you know how long ago thatwas?
That was that they came to NewZealand?
Yeah.
Is it different amounts it like10,000 or.
No, maybe not.
It's a few thousand years ago.
I think it, I would have tocheck because I feel like

(21:28):
Australia keeps getting olderand older.
I would, Australia's ancient.
Yeah, definitely.
But I would have to look on,yeah, have to look on my, um,
because it's so mad.
'cause we clearly did, I mean, Ithink there's something about
either the stories either wherepicking up the same thing Yeah.
Or there was a connection andthe stories can sort of like
show us where our travels went.
Yeah.
You see what I mean?

(21:49):
Because if we've got theseconnecting stories, then there
must be some older connectionbetween us that we That's right.
You know, maybe we're alltogether at one point and went
off with these stories.
Yeah, exactly.
Or we are picking it up fromYeah.
The energy that they're givingoff or whatever, you know.
Yeah, that's, it's aninteresting, isn't it?
That's, yeah.
Because the more theyunderstand, like with the
Polynesian travels, because atfirst, uh, you know, when we

(22:11):
were at school learning history,it was like.
Captain Cook discovered NewZealand.
And you never really heard muchabout what happened with the
Maori people though.
Oh, these people were on alittle Waka and they came to the
land like whoopie do.
But actually, yeah, it wasincredible.
I mean, it's more incredible tohave come a tiny little ade on a
massive, and they weren't eventhat tiny.
There were these massive bigcater meringues that they would

(22:32):
prepare for months in advance.
Yeah.
And they used to like hus allthese coconuts.
And the woman would make allthese amazing, massive, big nets
out of the panda, which is likea plant that grows in the
islands of Pacific Islands.
And um, and they used to makethese bas of big nets and fill
them with coconuts to bringbehind the Waka.
Wow.
Or the VA and Cook Island.
They would say vodka and um,yeah.

(22:53):
And then the woman would have tofast before they went on these
voyages so that their stomachwould shrink and they'd be
lighter.
Oh, wow.
Which I was quite surprised.
I thought they'd be eatingbecause they're not so fast as
much as they could.
But no, they used to fast.
Wow.
And I guess the men kept eating'cause they might have to
paddle.
Yeah.
But they did also harness theYeah, i, I fast before go on the
pilgrimage, so.
Oh, don't have to carry so muchweight.
Oh, well, yeah.
About everything I carry, I'mhaving to carry That's right.

(23:14):
My body.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well that's what they did, so,yeah.
Yeah.
That's funny.
I mean, yeah.
And they, they were even havingarranged marriages between
different islands.
'cause they understand, uh, theyunderstood the importance of
like a, a fresh, gentle, and allthat, you know?
So, yeah.
That's really cool.
So they were pretty onto it andthey knew all the star
navigation and they had storiesabout the way the stars would
set and that's, you know, theway they'd go.

(23:36):
Yeah.
You know, so, yeah.
I heard about being able to readwater as well.
Uh, there's a book that I'mreading by Tristan Gully.
Yeah.
And, um, they would be able totell by the, the behavior of the
sea how close they were toislands or to land because the
way the, the waves were, thelight patterns on the, on the
sea.
Oh yeah.
So they could read the water andtell, like if they were near.

(23:57):
Dip the bollocks into the waterto know seriously, I've heard
the story.
Yeah.
it's lovely as well sittingoutside here with you because

(24:18):
you planted all this garden,didn't you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know a lot of all, especiallyall the fruit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of the old, like all the,the older, um, you know, uh,
what do you call ornamentals?
Were here.
Yeah.
But pretty much, yeah.
And a lot of, all that new stuffdown there are the food forest.
And talk a little bit aboutpermaculture because some people
might not know what that is.

(24:38):
Yeah.
But it's such an amazing thing.
Yeah.
It's also amazing.
Yeah.
Well, permaculture is a designphilosophy that, um, looks at
traditional and indigenous waysof land management or even
ideas.
And interwoven with likescientific new scientific
research and stuff.
And also we are, nature is ourgreatest teacher looking at
natural systems and uh, lookingat how nature works and, um,

(25:02):
yeah.
Using all these, uh, tools tohelp design, whether it could be
our land or, um, business.
It could be used for multipledifferent things.
Building your house, you coulduse it.
So it offers, uh, three coreethics like at the heart of
permaculture, which is care forthe earth, uh, care for the
people and care for the future.
Mm-hmm.
And that's the heart ofpermaculture.

(25:23):
And that's almost like, I guesspermaculture could be described
as a big open vessel.
Mm-hmm.
That can hold a multitude ofdifferent ideas and techniques
and, you know, frameworks.
But those three core ethics actsas the filter.
Mm-hmm.
So if it sort of ticks thoseboxes, it could be part of
permaculture.
Mm-hmm.
Because it could be somethingsort of green building design or
social systems design or landdesign, you know, so it's very

(25:44):
varied or car design or whateverit could be.
Mm-hmm.
Um, yeah, so, so that's the mainthing.
And then there's 12 guidingprinciples to help you through
the design process.
Mm-hmm.
And now things like, you know,one of the most important is
observe and interact.
So just observing our naturalworld and learning from it.
Mm-hmm.
And things like produce no wasteusing value, renewable
resources.

(26:04):
Mm-hmm.
Using value, diversity,integrate rather than segregate.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, things that'sinteresting'cause we're gonna
try and put together an islandplan for sarc.
And I think for me, that's thething that feels the most key.
'cause I think part of thereason why we keep having
problems here is that we don'thave a vision.
Mm-hmm.
And so it means that otherpeople can come in and try and
put their vision on us, whereasif we were like, this is what we

(26:27):
are, then anyone coming up, it'slike, well, do you fit in with
our plan?
No, you don't.
Well then we're not interestedin what you are saying, what
you're doing.
So it just gives us that.
Mm.
Because at the moment we'rejust, things keep happening at
us and we say no.
Yeah.
But it's like, yeah, but whatare we saying yes to?
What's the Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's cool.
And it needs to come from all ofus.
Mm.
Because like obviously there'sthings that I think it could be

(26:47):
or should be, but, but I can'tmake everyone else agree with
that if that's not what theythink.
So we need to create ittogether.
Yeah.
And then see what, what it isthat we all value about the
island and what it is that wecan be a, you know, what's our
role in the world?
Mm-hmm.
Like what can we be a shininglight us?
That's beautiful.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, I want to try andhelp us create a plan where we

(27:10):
do that in that kind of way morein a permaculture type way.
Because, um, I think we've had afew things that have been done
before where people have come inand done like reports Yeah.
And have told us like, this ishow much water you've got.
This is how much this and thatyou've got, here's the
weaknesses, here's thestrengths.
And we've had about four or fiveof them.
Yeah.
But they just go in a drawer andnothing really happens.
Or like some things happen, butthen they tail off.

(27:32):
Uh, I feel like it needs to bemore of a cre, creative and
inspiring thing.
Mm.
That we can be like, this iswhat we're about.
And then it can be on all of ourliterature, you know, all of
the, everything, you know,that's what the school's doing.
That's what the housing isdoing.
That's what the tourism's doing.
Yeah.
And yeah, we're just all on thesame page.
Yeah.

(27:52):
So that's the, that's the thingI want to try and do nice here
before I, I dunno if I leave thegovernment or whatever, but like
that's, that's what I want to dobefore I leave.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Try to get that done.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Good on you.
Yeah, no.
Oh, that would be great.
Yeah.
It's a good idea to, it'd be getto family culture, people
involved in that call.
Yeah, definitely.
Find out ways to, it'd be goodto try and get you involved.
You won't be here, you'll beother side of the world.

(28:12):
We zoom you in or something.
Yeah, I reckon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That would be really good.
Yeah.
Um, so shall we do a card?
Let's, yeah, sure.
So you can actually shuffle thecards, which doesn't normally
happen.
Okay.
Okay.
Um, so if you shuffle the card,I was just looking at the, oh
yeah.
So they arrived the new, theMaori arrived.
In the 13th century.
Oh, right, okay.
Between 1250 and 13.

(28:33):
Oh, okay.
That's more recent than Ithought it was gonna be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So was, so was anyone therebefore?
So that's about 800 years.
Um, the Maori Right.
Which were another Polynesiantribe.
And then there's even, um, tailsof the short redhead people.
Oh wow.
And you know, some people saythere's like deep under mounds,

(28:55):
there's some old stone circles.
Oh wow.
And there's even some Maoritribes that do have this red
hair thing going on.
So whether they interbred withthese people.
Oh wow.
So you think it's like maybe a,or possibly.
I mean, you never know who elsecould have got there on a show,
I mean, you know, or a boat or,you know, I'm sure there
would've other been othertravelers out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm not sure.
And it's interesting'cause yeah,we dunno much about that.

(29:17):
And, um, years and years ago Iwatched a documentary and it
seems there was all thesethings, uh, like all this
information coming up in ourgovernment, sort of like.
Wasn't going to release info,any information.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Especially this, um, where theythought this could be this
underground, a bit like theAztec sort of pyramid thing.
Yeah.
Under this wall.

(29:38):
But um, but anyway, it was allclosed, so, I dunno.
But yeah, so I dunno anything.
So there's just some tales, butthe redhead is definitely there.
That's really funny.
You know, with some tribes.
Yeah, yeah.
Or, and, or, um, Neanderthal aswell.
'cause the erth was meant to bewhere the redhead team comes
from.
Oh.
I dunno if that's true, but Imean, yeah.
That, that's, that's apossibility as well.
So it might have been evenolder.

(29:58):
Yeah.
So you never know who was there.
But I mean, I think the landitself is definitely quite
young.
Yeah.
And that's obvious through like,you know, just the, you know,
just I guess like.
Yeah.
The type of trees and Right,okay.
The depth of soil and that sortof thing.
And that it's So, it's a recentlike tectonic plate.
Yeah.
I think it, like in the whole,yeah.
I mean, they do say scheme ofbroke off Australia Right.

(30:19):
And all that sort of thing.
But then also it's continuouslypushing up.
It's like two plates justpushing up out of the sea.
Right.
And it's sort of twisting andpushing.
That's why we have so muchearthquakes and um, and
volcanoes and Oh, that's cool.
You know?
Yeah.
Young, active, live land ego.
Can you give that a shuffle?
Alrightyy.

(30:51):
And so this isn't a reading,it's just a universe telling us
what we're gonna talk about.
Okay, cool.
So I'll go like that.
And you just pick a card.
Okay.
Okay.
For this one.
Excellent.
What we got there.
Truce.
Mm.
So that's an interesting one.
And that's kind of feels a bitlike what we've been talking
about, about how, how to findpeace in yourself with all the

(31:13):
different parts.
Yeah.
And how, and how we do createtruce in a world that is
currently at war.
Yeah.
What's your feeling on that?
Like what do you think, I thinkis an answer to, to this?
What's your answer to what'sgoing on in the world at the
moment?
Uh, well, I actually think,yeah, this is quite interesting.
'cause I think this is probablyone of the most important things

(31:34):
I think in my mind is, I guesstruth.
I wouldn't have thought of thatword, but, you know, like unity
or people coming togethermm-hmm.
Because I see so much is out todivide and create polarization.
Yeah.
You know, everything's extremeleft or extreme right, or rich
or poor, you know, there's a lotof extremities.
Yeah.
And as long as we're divided,we're easy to control and

(31:54):
manipulate and feeling isolated.
Yeah.
You know, and so I think.
It's the most important thingfor us to come together.
Yeah.
And see our commonalities.
'cause there's a lot more commonthings.
You know, we're all people, weall love each other.
We love to eat and drink and,you know, be merry and dance and
sing and all of that.
I think everyone loves to Yeah.
You know, and get together.

(32:16):
So, um, yeah, definitely.
I think it's so important.
So yeah.
How, how do we do it?
Yeah.
I think forgiveness is probablythe hugest thing.
Yeah.
It was my greatest lesson inlife was forgiveness.
Yeah, definitely.
And uh,'cause I think if you areholding grudges against someone,
you know, you're never gonna befree.
You're always gonna be holdingthat weight.
Yeah.

(32:36):
And even in yourself, like Yeah.
Um, I did a thing once where Iwent to an a vapa or a meditator
for 10 days.
Yeah.
And um, and I really like.
Because you could, if you wantedto, you could go to your room
and meditate for bits of it.
And I did like a couple ofsessions where I did that and
you ended up just sort ofstaring out the window, but time
went so much slower than if youwere actually meditating.
Yeah.
So it was easier to go in thehall and sit and meditate around

(32:59):
other people.
'cause then you didn't, youknow, wander off and just start
staring at stuff.
So like, yeah, just sat andmeditated and we were doing like
14 hours a day meditation for 10days.
Yeah.
Wow.
And all the way through, I hadthis pain in my shoulder.
It felt like a three prongsgoing through my shoulders, like
one point at the front and thenthree at the back.
And no matter what I did, Icouldn't like loosen it or get

(33:20):
rid of it.
Yeah.
It was all like, the tensionfrom my body had like oozed down
my back, like melting wax.
And then this was the last thingthat was left.
Wow.
And on the last day.
It was just, I think it was thelast meditation.
It was an hour that we were alldoing together.
And I was like, do you knowwhat?
You can do whatever you want.
You can sit here and thinkyou've done, you've done 10 days
of meditating.
And I just sort of let my brainjust go.

(33:41):
And I went off and startedthinking about this, um,
situation I'd had where we, meand my ex-partner had been
wrongly accused of something.
Yeah.
And it ended up really blowingup way out of control.
And it had become a bit of awitch hunt.
Yeah.
And it was quite a good lessonfor moving here because it was a
small community that thathappened in, it was at the Tudor
reenactment that I work at withCarra.
That's their carra.
Yeah.

(34:01):
Yeah.
Nice.
And it was over nothing.
It was over a coat.
It was ridiculous.
But it had like, people had goneto their grave not liking me.
Yeah.
Who had wrongly been toldinformation about me.
And it, you know, it really,really hurt.
Yeah.
And I've, in this moment justrelived the whole experience as
if I was in a movie.
Yeah.
Like I remembered every singlesecond of it and I relived the
whole thing and I got to the endof it and I was so full of

(34:25):
anger.
I was like furious.
Yeah.
And then I went and there'snothing you can do about it.
Yeah.
Like it's, it was years later.
Yeah.
And it was just like, there'snothing you can do about it.
And I breathed out and myshoulder just unclicked.
Wow.
And it was like, oh, I literallyhad a chip on my shoulder.
And it was so good'cause it wasjust like, oh, it's gone.
Yeah.
It's amazing that forgivenessdoesn't have to be sort of
literal where you are.

(34:45):
Like,'cause you know, somethings are, I mean that in ways
that was unforgivable.
It was rubbish.
You know, it was really rubbishthat, that that had happened.
Mm-hmm.
But it's still, all it's doingis damaging you.
Yeah.
That's it.
Or holding it in yourself.
You hold it and the person thatyou are angry at, probably, I
don't care.
They don't even know.
Yeah, exactly.
And then it's almost like theone, as long as you're holding
on,'cause it's Yeah.
They've won while you're holdingon.

(35:05):
Exactly.
Yeah.
I let go And now it doesn't,they don't, you know, I still
see them and it doesn't, there'snothing there.
Now.
They don't bother me.
No.
That's it.
And then it's like you're free.
Yeah, exactly.
So yeah, I think, and I thinkwith everything that's going on
in the world, I mean, I thinkthere's probably gotta be
justice for.
You know, foot because it's hardto forgive if there's still
injustice going on.

(35:26):
Yeah.
Because it's right in your face.
And how can you Yeah.
You know that, I mean, maybepeople can and that's a real,
yeah.
Takes a high character to beable to do that.
But yeah.
Hopefully we can see somejustice.
And then the big job would begetting forgiveness.
Yeah.
To like help cleanse.
'cause it, I mean, I just thinkof certain places now and war
where there's so much like Yeah.

(35:47):
Generational.
Generational gen generation andgeneration years.
'cause that was tensionCrusaders was what the
conquerors went off and did.
So after William the Conquerorcame to England.
Yeah.
It was the Norman Knights whothen went off and did the Holy
Wars.
Oh.
Didn't, that was the same guy.
Yeah.
And that's, that's a thousandyears ago.
Yeah.
This is so old.
Yeah.
You know, this is so old thiswar.

(36:07):
It is.
So, it's crazy.
Yeah.
And yeah.
How to forgive and move on and,and you know, I think about
after the second World War andall the horror that happened
then Yeah.
There was so many amazing thingsthat that happened afterwards.
When people realized how badthings had gone.
Yeah.
And what people had done.
Yeah.
And that's where the NHS camefrom.
That's where social housing camefrom.
Oh yeah.
When people had, there was nomoney.

(36:28):
The country had no money and itwas destroyed.
It'd been bombed to pieces.
Yeah.
And from a place of no money,they created social housing in
the NHS.
Wow.
So this whole story of likeinteresting needing money is
like, it came from Zero Money.
It came from the darkest hour.
Yeah.
And we were able to create itthen, so.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anything about it being moneyproblematic is like, that's just
nonsense.

(36:48):
Yeah.
And so at some point when atruce does happen, because
fascism can't last, becauseFascism's all about blaming
other people.
Yeah.
But at some point, if you getyour way and it's just you guys,
yeah.
You're gonna just suddenlyrealize that you still.
I'm angry and everything's stillshit.
Yeah.
Well this is, oh, I broughtmyself with me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I'm a dick.
Yeah.

(37:08):
Yeah.
And not only am I dick, but Ijust did loads of really
horrible things.
Yeah.
Like how do you create a utopiafrom that?
Yes.
That's not a place of Yeah.
Of beauty.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
So it can't ever last that long.
No.
'cause at some point, I thinklike 20, 30 years is the longest
it's ever lasted.
Yeah.
And we're five years into it.
Yeah.
Now it's normally shorter thanthat.

(37:28):
Yeah.
So at some point people arelike, hang on a minute, this is
not right.
Mm.
But it's just how dark has itgotta get before, you know?
And it's been very dark in thepast.
Yeah.
So it's just hoping that itdoesn't go that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's pretty crazy.
And it's so global.
I mean, I know it was a worldWar last time, but it feels like
it's involving more, it feelsmore world wari, world wari this

(37:48):
time because everyone's draggedinto it by some degree.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's pretty crazy times.
Yeah, it is crazy times.
But I think you're totallyright.
It's forgiveness.
Yeah, definitely.
For us to be able to.
And hopefully like Yeah, likeyou say, it was like, uh, what
were you saying when beforeWilliam Conqueror comes a
thousand years ago.

(38:09):
Mm-hmm.
We had free land and all thissort of thing.
Yeah.
And we've all sort of been, Iguess, conditioned into
believing that we're all part ofthe system and these people tell
us what to do.
Mm-hmm.
And then we have to do it.
Yeah.
But actually I feel likepersonally, you know, I'm more
and more I just see politics nowand I'm quite disgusted.
Yeah.

(38:29):
Doesn't matter what side of theNo, exactly.
The thing.
I think they're all just, yeah.
I don't know.
I, I don't even go there'causeit's just so Yeah.
But I think it's almost for usto just, um, build our own new w
scratch a little bit by our own,build our own new boat and do
our thing, you know?
Yeah, exactly.
For the good of the planet.
For the good of the people.
Yeah.
And, and then, you know, we cancreate something good away from

(38:50):
that system that's just on arollercoaster ride of its own
that's not going anywhere good.
Really.
Yeah.
I think that's where my hopecomes from, because.
In a way, if you think about itas a story or as a game or a
play.
Yeah.
Then how would we have gone fromwhere we were 20 years ago where
everything was very comfortable?
Mm-hmm.
And we had like mobile phonesand we had internet and

(39:11):
everything was great and we werelike, oh, this is really cool at
someone's expense.
But they were over there and wedidn't have to look at them.
Yeah.
And we were all very comfy.
It's like a dog or a cat's notgonna move unless we force it.
Yeah.
And so for something to changeand shift when people are
comfortable, something has tohappen.
Yeah.
That's right.
And in a way, I feel like we'veall met each other now, like the

(39:32):
world's all connected.
You know, there are a few tribesthat aren't connected, but
basically the world's allconnected now.
Yeah.
The next step for us to, toevolve feels like for us to
become the world.
Like one world.
Yeah.
To become Gaia.
To become, yeah.
What's the name?
And.
Married.
Oh, papa.
Yeah.
Yeah, Papa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
And just to be connected as one.
Yes.
Yeah.

(39:52):
And to stop having these wallsand boundaries and borders and
all of that to be one, oneglobe, one community.
And the only two things reallythat can make that happen would
be a UFO attack.
Yeah.
Or a, a environmental disaster.
Yeah.
Because it, it would take us toall go, hang on, this is our
planet.
Yeah.
For us to become one planet.
Yeah.
And so, you know, as soon as wedon't have any aliens attacking

(40:15):
us, I think the, theenvironmental situation is the
situation.
Yeah.
That is the next step in ourevolution.
Yeah.
Either we'll destroy ourselves.
Yeah.
But probably we won't.
Yeah.
And we'll come out of thisgoing.
Well, that was rubbish.
And then we'll evolve intosomething better, you know?
And yeah.
And we've chucked AI into themix as well.
And who knows what's gonnahappen with that, but like, you

(40:37):
know.
Yeah.
Well there's a lot.
Yeah.
I think, yeah, that'sdefinitely, and I think that is
definitely seems to be theprojection.
Mm-hmm.
And but I, I take that withcaution too because, you know, I
mean, it's interesting'cause nowwith, I know in New Zealand and
America, we're very far rightgovernment, so it's like, ah,
drill, drill or mine, mine,whatever it is.

(40:57):
And so I thought New Zealand hada progressive government.
Was that a woman?
Uh, just, I didn't know.
She, she, she, uh, left.
Oh no.
Yeah.
And um, but they weren't good.
They were just, they weren'tgood either.
They were just puppets of theWorld Economic Forum.
It's the border though.
It's is, it's from one toanother.
And it was just, and, and thatdivided our country so much and

(41:17):
we've got labor in now, and itwas just Yeah.
Appalling.
And it's almost going to oneextreme right to the other
extreme.
Yeah.
And there's no middle ground.
And, um, and that's really wheremost people wanna be is the
middle ground's, the saferplace.
Um, yeah.
And just, and it keeps everyonesort of happy, you know?
Yeah.
Because we can't be too, I mean,I'd love to be, you know, way
more left and all the rest ofit, but I also appreciate that

(41:38):
that's to work for everybody.
No.
So you just gotta have a balancefor, for if you're gonna be at
that level, especially, youknow, I don't know, because it,
like within New Zealand thingsjust go, nothing ever gets done
because like, labor governmentwanted to do this and so they
changed the education system,change the health system, change
this, change that, and all thepeople working in the public

(42:00):
services.
So like, oh no, it's allrestructuring.
People are laid off and, andit's quite stressful.
And now, oh, like, you know, oh,this whole education system is
changing.
And then the next governmentcomes in and he's like, no,
we're gonna change it back.
Gosh, we're not doing this.
And then so the people working,they're never actually able to
do what they want to do.
No.
And everyone's getting burnt outand tired.

(42:21):
Yeah.
And exhausted.
And stressed out.
And it's just politics.
It's so flippy floppy.
Yeah.
And there's no stability.
Yeah.
And it's just at the whim, likeof America, a lot of what?
Yeah.
Or Britain and New Zealand we'rejust one of the Five Eyes Nation
following along like a littlepuppy dog.
Yeah, totally.
You know?
And it's just disgustingactually what goes on.
So, yeah.
Everyone's burnt out.

(42:42):
It was, it was something Inoticed at Glastonbury.
Yeah.
Like even the young people.
'cause it wasn't just'cause I'molder.
Mm-hmm.
It was like no one had theenergy to go out and party and
dance the way we used to.
Yeah.
It was like everyone's tired.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everyone was so tired.
Yeah.
Because we were all like, whatare we doing?
Yeah.
And I think the pandemicprobably encouraged that as
well.
'cause we all stopped.
Yeah.
And then it was like, oh, what?

(43:02):
We've gotta start up again andwe've gotta work that speed
again.
Yeah.
For you.
Straight up.
Yeah.
I don't really wanna do that.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I quite liked when the deer werewalking through London.
That was quite nice.
Oh yeah.
Oh, I bet.
Yeah.

(43:25):
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(43:45):
Or if you are able to affordmore, then you get the videos
for the podcast.
This is a particularly goodvideo because.
This week, me and Ro were in thesame location, and so it's a
video of the two of us actuallychatting to each other, uh,
Glastonbury last week.
The sound clips that you hearare actually videos, so you can
see videos of Glastonbury, so itis a bit extra, and that's nine
pound a month.

(44:06):
So it's up to you if it's, it'sone of those things that if
you're able to do that, it wouldbe incredible and I'd really
appreciate it.
And it means that everybody elsegets a free podcast.
So if you can't afford tosupport me, no problem at all.
Tell people about it.
Spread the word just.
Just, and keep showing up,review it, star it, all that
kind of thing.
So I really appreciate you beinghere.
I love making this for you.

(44:27):
It's huge kisses and love to allof you and to my patrons.
I really appreciate yousupporting this so that everyone
gets to enjoy the podcast.
I will be, um.
Holding a moon ceremony onThursday night, and I'm also
going to be at BoomTown thisyear.
So if anyone is at BoomTown, docome and find us at the l la

(44:47):
Luna Coven Venue.
It's a secret venue, but you canfind it.
We're in Old Town.
There's a moon symbol for it,and there's normally a pentagram
on our door.
I dunno if it definitely will bethis year, but it will either be
a pentagram or a moon.
Uh, so come and see me at.
That, and also I'll be in theopening ceremony on the origin
stage.
And then if you are in Suffolkor East Anglia, come to Kentwell

(45:08):
Hall for the.
A reenactment that's in August,which will be the week after
BoomTown.
So come and see me there and youcan come and see me being a
tutor.
Highly recommend coming along toKenmore Hall.
It's incredible.
It's in long Malford in Suffolknear Sudbury, and it's a few
hundred people living as Tudors.
And you get to experience Tudorlife where you are all staying
in character.

(45:29):
And it's one of the onlyreenactments in the world that's
done in that way where we arelike first person in character
reenactors, and it's just.
Bloody magical.
It's magical.
So do come if you can, andotherwise, let's just go on with
listening to this awesome chatwith Roz, so on with a show.

(46:00):
Here you go.
Another card.
All righty.
That's good for this one here.
Ooh, what's that?
Futility.
Futility.
I mean, that kind of feels likealso what we're talking about.
Like what is, what feels futile?
I mean, do you ever feel likeyou lose hope?

(46:20):
How do you keep hope?
What is it that you use to keephopeful?
Uh, I keep hope.
I, I I am actually still reallyhopeful.
Mm-hmm.
I really, because I just see thegood in people.
Yeah.
And like, say New Zealand beingthe example, like I see at our
national government level.
It's just, you know, whatever.
I, I don't even want to go there'cause it's just a lot of

(46:40):
bollocks really.
But at the local governmentlevel or the local people on the
ground are awesome.
Mm-hmm.
The majority are real beautiful.
They really care what they'redoing.
And I think that's where youcould make change at your local
council, your local government.
Yeah.
And'cause you can work with thepeople and be on the ground.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, and I work inChristchurch with loads of

(47:01):
different people from like.
You know, city council, healthDistrict to, you know, homeless
people, to corporate groups, toyoung children, to university
students.
So you get to see all thesedifferent people from different
walks of life.
And what are you doing?
What is it that you do?
I teach permaculture.
Right.
And I look after this project ina city center, which is part of
the Christchurch City rebuildafter all the earthquakes.

(47:22):
Okay.
And, um, a lot of the city wasdestroyed in those earthquakes.
And then the city council hadsome public consultations
wanting to see what peoplewanted to see with the rebuild.
Oh, wow.
And ever all these organizationsand people were, came together
to say they wanted to see foodresilience, um, because it's so
important they saw that if oursupply chains go down and the
food can't get in, then we needto have is what local food

(47:44):
growing needs about.
Exactly.
This is one of our mostimportant thing.
Yeah.
If we look at what we need, weneed water, and we need food and
shelter, you know, our basicneeds.
And we've got to the point inthe world where we are all
relying on other countries forour basic needs.
Mm-hmm.
And we've lost our own like.
You know, um, our own productionwithin our countries Yeah.
To support ourselves.

(48:05):
Yeah.
But that's what was great.
This is one great thing about, Iguess, like you were saying,
with natural disasters or whenthings aren't so comfortable,
people start to thinkdifferently.
And so Christchurch was a greatopportunity for, uh, or the
earthquake was a greatopportunity for Christchurch to
Yeah.
You know, change.
So, so yeah.
With those public consultations,some permaculture designers got

(48:25):
together and designed a foodforest and everyone brainstormed
this amazing idea and they putforward the proposal and won the
site for like prime inner cityland.
Which is just next to like thebig cathedral square and the
town hall.
We're right there in the citycenter on the river.
And um, yeah, we have thisbeautiful food forest, community
garden, urban farm where we growveggies and sell it at a market,

(48:47):
uh, every Wednesday.
And we've got this buildingbeing built with a green roof,
compost toilets, solar panels,passive solar heating.
It's all, it's permaculturedesign in action, you know?
Yeah.
And, um, yeah.
So it's an incredible projectand we just have loads of
volunteers.
We have, that's why we get allthe corporate groups and schools
come for education orvolunteering and all groups in

(49:08):
between.
And we have, we work with likeyouth who, um, unemployed youth.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, the government will pay themto do courses with us.
Oh wow.
Cool.
And um, yeah, so it's just veryvaried and we are right in town,
so you've got a real mainstreamaudience of people and we're
around like businesses and allthat, and the amount of people
who just.
I so thankful for it to bethere.
They're always walking throughlike, oh wow, this is so

(49:29):
beautiful.
It's so great.
You know?
Yeah.
It's an amazing opportunity tohave an example like that in the
city center.
That's really exciting.
Yeah.
But yeah.
That, that's come out of, um,the earthquakes, but Yeah.
But so, um, so yeah, I get towork and yeah.
I just see within all thesegroups, I just see really
awesome people.
Yeah.
With big hearts.
People are awesome that reallycare about the land and Yeah.

(49:51):
A lot of people probably feeloverwhelmed and they don't know
what they can do, but Yeah.
They do care.
Yeah.
And, um, it's the thing I lovedabout moving here.
Yeah.
Like, this is what I meant aboutmeeting all the different types
of people.
'cause I loved living inBrighton.
It was amazing, but it was justone type of people.
Yeah.
And we were all on the same pageand it was an amazing page to be
on.
Yeah.
'cause it was the most like outthere, you know, liberal.
Yeah.

(50:11):
Inclusive, you know, wheneveryone goes on about nouns and
pronouns.
Sorry.
Pronouns and, um, all that kindof thing.
Like, they were literally at theforefront of like, yeah, this
is, I'm gonna make a stand forbeing able to be a they or Yeah.
All that sort of thing.
And, and then, and that waswonderful.
But then to move somewhere whereI feel like we've got an exact
cross section of society.
You've got everyone from Bimanto billionaires, like Yeah.

(50:32):
Hanging out in the mermaidtogether.
Yeah, I know.
And I'm there behind the barwatching like, yeah, the BIM Man
argue with a millionaire abouthow to train a dog.
I'm just like, this is mad.
Like, where else in the worldwould you see this?
Yeah.
And I love it.
It's so, yeah.
That's so good.
It's so cool because you're likechallenged by meeting and
talking to people that youwouldn't have ever interacted
with.
Yeah.
But that's what's so wonderfulbecause it just, yeah, it does

(50:54):
make you realize that people areall the same and that Yeah.
And lovely and fun and awesomeand Yeah.
You know, there's a lot moregood out there.
Yeah.
And I think there's a few, youknow, really greedy, you know,
bad people out there.
Yeah.
But even, I think the majorityof the people, I think probably
even on a day to day basis,they're probably still people
you get on with, you know?
Like it, I think people havemoments where they do things

(51:15):
that you're like, I don't likethat you just did that.
Yeah.
But I sort of had times whereI've hung out with you and.
I had a laugh with you.
You know?
Yeah.
That's sad, eh?
People still need love.
On the whole, I mean, youprobably dunno about
psychopaths, but Yeah.
But I still think they wanna beloved and adored, don't they?
And worship.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Everyone needs it.
They do.
To be exposed to moredifference.

(51:36):
Yeah, I think so.
And it's interesting peopleInteresting.
Oh, they are.
Yeah.
People always just be talking tothe same people that are
agreeing with everything, youknow?
No, that's right.
Yeah.
And having different ideas, youknow, it's what makes it
diversity, you know, all of thislike, you know, interesting and,
well, it's, monoculture is aproblem wherever it is, isn't
it?
Yeah, that's right.
Eh, don't want with your props,then it makes you weak.
And if you do it with.

(51:57):
Culture.
It makes you weak.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Because I think that's thething.
We try and make everything a bitbeige so that it's not scary and
weird.
Yeah.
But that makes us weak.
Yeah.
Because then if something scaryand weird, weird comes out of
the left and suddenly you know,does something that you weren't
expecting Yeah.
Then you dunno how to behave.
Yeah.
Or what to do.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(52:17):
That's right.
Whereas the more you are likeopen to things and interact with
difference.
Yeah.
The more you realize that, thatwe're not that different.
Yeah.
And it's not weird and scary.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, people aren't weirdand scary.
Even the weirdest, scariestperson you met is like a really
normal person who's like milkand tea sugars in their tea.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is it.
I mean, this is right everyone.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(52:37):
For sure.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Yeah.
That's really cool you're doingthat.
I, it would be really cool toget you to come and like share
your Oh yeah.
Knowledge and wisdom with uswhen we're doing the oil and
plan stuff, because you care.
Yeah.
I would love to.
Talk about the, um, gardens thatyou did over here.
'cause you did.
Yeah.
Um, I designed the stocksgarden, the permaculture garden

(52:58):
there.
Yeah.
And here at Maison Palm as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And there was the award-winningone that you did with Jude, uh,
behind, uh, the Mony.
Behind the Mony.
Behind the Mony.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Oh, that was, yeah.
For SEM.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
I worked there too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was, yeah, that wasactually, yeah, one of my first
big job, uh, food production jobhere.

(53:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was for, um, SEM when wehad the market gardens here and
we had the big fruit cage andall the greenhouses won those,
we were producing loads.
Yeah, we did, we won awards andyeah.
I'm so sad that's gone.
Yeah, I know.
It's a show.
Yeah.
I haven't looked at it yet.
Last time I saw it, it was veryovergrown.
Yeah.
But yeah, I guess, and, and likethat, those awards that we won,

(53:41):
it was great and it definitelydeserved it for all the gardens.
But, um.
But, and that's one thing, youknow, I do, that's one thing too
with like, I was gonna say withNew Zealand political thing, the
greenwashing mm-hmm.
Thing going on.
You know, I feel like some ofthose awards that were one at
that stage was a bit ofgreenwashing.
Yeah.
Because you could see somethinggoing on somewhere, and then

(54:02):
it's like, oh, what?
Don't look at this rubber andplastic and all that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, and I see thathappening a lot like in New
Zealand and in lots of places,you know?
Yeah.
With, um, like smart cars, theseelectric cars are really being
promoted in New Zealand as theclean green alternative.
Mm-hmm.
But it's like Lutheranbatteries.
Yeah.
And all the batteries and, andjust still the infrastructure

(54:24):
and all of that sort of thingand, um, yeah.
And, and the metals.
Yeah.
You know, like with all this,like at the moment our whanau
and my family and the CookIslands are really, really
involved with.
Uh, protesting against the deepsea mining.
Right.
Okay.
'cause all the ships are in thewater ready to mine up the,
these nodules that are on thebottom of the deep ocean.

(54:46):
Right.
And because they're full of, uh,you know, precious minerals that
are used for smart technologymm-hmm.
And for these smart cities andall that sort of thing that
they're trying to implement,like New Zealand is one of the
world economic forums, um, testpilots for some of this.
Right.
You know?
Right.
And so, um, and then they'retrying to sell it in, in the

(55:08):
light of Oh,'cause we're gonnasave the planet this way.
Yeah.
'cause you know, you get allthis technology and then you can
see how much power you're using.
You can see everything will bemore efficient in all this.
Yeah.
But actually I see it as so muchgreenwashing.
Yeah.
Because the fact that we shouldactually be consuming less, not
consuming more.
Yeah.
And you hear Bill Gates, someonelike this, talking about online.
Oh, I've seen interviews withhim saying, no, no, we need to

(55:28):
consume more because this is theway we're going to, um, save the
world because we get all thesesmart cities.
And the rich countries will payfor the poor countries to have
all this infrastructure, butreally they're gonna make, you
know, more like surveillancecities.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they're taking, and why arewe mining all these new precious
metals when we're not evenlearning to recycle what we've

(55:50):
already got in piles and pilesof waste.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But this, um, deep sea thing is,is a really big thing right now.
And my auntie, who's, um, thepresident of this organization,
it's like the, um, anenvironmental organization in
the Cook Islands.
Yeah.
And, um, also, which is ourfamily organization.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, she's been overin Jamaica at the, uh,

(56:13):
international, um, conferencefor Deep Sea International, uh,
for the deep sea mining.
Yeah.
And it's just about to go, Ithink it's July the 30th.
Is it July the 30th?
Uh, no, July the 25th.
No, it is July the 30th.
Sorry.
Um, all around the world, peopleare gonna have banners about
hashtag you know, please, uh.

(56:34):
Think deeply mm-hmm.
Before we start mining thesedeep sea modules.
Yeah.
Because isn't it Trump that'sjust given permission for that
to stop?
Yeah.
He's, he's like, go do it.
Do it, do it, do it.
And like a lot of countries aresaying, hold because actually
what, what they are intending todo, and there's a lot of boats,
they're all there on the seawaiting to go, like in the
Clarion Clapperton zone, whichis up, um, east of the States

(56:55):
and in the Cook Islands is a bigplace.
So this is why we're at theforefront of this too.
Um, yeah.
So they go in and they'll usethese big vacuum cleaners to
suck up all these nodules, butalong with it, they're sucking
up all the silk from the bottomof the ocean and all these
amazing worms that are like thebottom feeders.
Mm-hmm.
And anything that falls to theocean, they break it down.
And then they are food.

(57:17):
You know, they're just part ofthe food chain.
Mm-hmm.
Which is a very important partof the food chain.
Yeah.
And also they have, um,scientists have found that these
nodules.
Um, produce deep sea oxygen.
Right.
And they also habitats Yeah.
For these, all these amazinganimals and creatures and Yeah.
Corals that we have never knownbefore.
Yeah.
And aren't they not carbonbased?
They're like sulfur based.

(57:38):
So we are all carbon based.
Yeah.
But around these nodules.
'cause they're like pouring outsulfur or whatever.
It's, they're pouring out Yeah.
The beings, the things that arearound them are sulfur based.
Not carbon based.
Oh.
Possibly.
I don't know, but yeah.
Oh, right.
Something I saw DavidAttenborough, but Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
De definitely non, non carbonbased life forms.
'cause they've, they're lifeforms that have formed around
this chemical and they've,they've taken thousands and

(57:59):
thousands of years to develop orwhatever, and so they can suck
them all out.
Underwater destroy the seabed,then they process it.
Yeah.
So then they have to wash themusing chemicals.
Yeah.
And then that byproduct of thechemical washing water, the
washing into the sea, back intothe sea along with all the silt.
Yeah.
Which they, um, you know,distribute into the ocean.
Probably about mid of, you know,half deep of, you know.

(58:21):
Yeah.
Which then creates a lot oflike, um, bad water conditions.
Yeah.
So then the fish are like out ofthere.
'cause they don't wanna be inall that.
So Especially when it's gottoxic chemicals in it.
Yeah.
And then all those nodules aregonna be shipped off.
They're not gonna come to theCook Islands to give them money.
They're gonna be shipped offsomewhere to be processed.
And, um, but the, the whole, youknow, them sucking all, all up

(58:43):
is really noisy.
Yeah.
So it's like metal, you know,these little nodules going upper
metal pipe.
Yeah.
So imagine the noise for all theanimals.
Like this is all whalemigration, route dolphins, all
of this.
There's so much beautiful sealife that go around there.
And, um, yeah, just everythingabout it is like.
And, and knowing And also likethe ocean is one of our biggest

(59:05):
carbon storage sinks.
Yeah.
One of, you know, and so holdon.
Aren't we meant to be lookingafter the planet now?
Yeah.
And you, you want the smarttechnology to save our world,
but you're gonna go do somethingthat could really, really
damage.
Yeah.
We don't do and this is our do.
Yeah.
Should we not, we should reallynot be playing with this and we
should be learning to recyclewhat we've already got outta the
ground.
Yeah.

(59:25):
That's just piling and pilingup.
Yeah.
As e-waste and all that sort ofthing before we start taking
things.
We don't understand what theconsequence.
'cause there's always gonna be aconsequence.
Surely we've should have learnedthat by now.
So yeah.
Hopefully, hopefully, um,hopefully it will be stopped.
But they definitely looks like,you know, full steam ahead on
that one.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(59:45):
Yeah.
So yeah, you're all fighting,so, so to look out for that
hashtag and Yeah.
And if anyone wants to go to thecoast, like, I think I'll make a
sign when we go for the fullmoon.
Yeah.
We can just take photos and I'lljust post it at the time.
Yeah, that'd be cool.
I'll make a big banner Yes.
About it.
That's great.
And, um, and maybe tell otherpeople, I think there's someone
in Jersey who's helping toorganize it.
They're keen to get in touch aswell.

(01:00:06):
Right.
So just, they want as manypeople around the world, um,
with these banners, take photos,videos to post it.
Mm-hmm.
'cause I think it must be on the30th of July, the final hearing.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
At the, in Jamaica, at the, um,international, uh, deep Sea
Authority, you know?
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So it's all going on there, butyeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:00:28):
Yeah.
And it's not futile.
That's the thing.
I think people like often think,oh, there's nothing we can do.
And it's beyond hope.
But it is these small, it's, Imean, this isn't a small battle,
but it's, it's fighting thebattles.
You have to keep fighting thebattles.
And our voice does matterbecause it really do, you know?
Yeah.
And that, I mean, it's like myauntie, she does so much amazing
work and now she's getting to goall over the Pacific to talk

(01:00:49):
about this, uh, to work with thescientists.
She got to speak at this, um, inJamaica at this international
conference on behalf of likeindigenous people in the
Pacific.
Oh, wow.
And you know, and so she'sgetting to network and connect
and there are, you know, a lotof countries that really back in
the no deep sea, no to deep seamining.
Yeah.
It's just, yeah.
You've got people like Trump andYeah.

(01:01:11):
Even now New Zealand's behind itbecause we are just sucking up
to Trump.
Yeah.
I guess in America.
Um, yeah.
But it's definitely, uh, thevoice.
Yeah.
People's voices do matter.
Yeah.
You know, we do have so muchpower.
Yeah.
We have more power than werealize.
Oh, so much power.
But that's why I feel so muchhope.
Yeah.
Because I think.
I think we will come to anawakening.
'cause I'm a lot like you seeinglife as a journey.

(01:01:32):
Yeah.
And we've sort of discovered thelands now we've discovered the
people.
Yeah.
And now we are like ready forthe next evolution jump.
And we can actually realize thatwe are free beings on this land,
you know?
Or children of this earth.
And we're all brother andsisters custodians that look
after her for the future.
Yeah.
And the more we can disconnectfrom the broken system.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's wonderful.

(01:01:53):
Good.
Oh, go for this one now.
Ooh, la la.
Ooh.
The hanged man.
So this one is aboutsurrendering.

(01:02:15):
Mm-hmm.
So the hangman's surrenderingto, to this awakening.
Really?
Mm-hmm.
So it's like they're quitesimilar colors as well.
It's going a similar vibe to it.
It's like, yeah.
Um, I mean, I, I talked aboutthe vision that I saw at
Glastonbury.
It is like that other world, andI think that's the thing that
separates us from ai.
And there's part of me that'slike, is it real?

(01:02:37):
I dunno whether it's real ornot.
Whether it's just like, youknow, what our brain does and
where we we go to.
Um, but yeah, I feel like thething that I got from having
seen that vision Yeah.
And came away from that was thatit's bigger than this.
That this is just the story.
Like the journey that you justsaid is like, this is just the
stuff that's happening now.

(01:02:57):
Yeah.
But, but it's bigger Yeah.
Than that.
Yeah, definitely.
And what, yeah, what's yourrelationship to that like?
Yeah.
Uh, yeah, I definitely like ifwhen you say surrendering, I
definitely resonate with that inthe way that I feel like I'm
very connected to our beautifulearth and I love it.
And I feel very surrenderingtoo.

(01:03:19):
That's actually why I don't, Idon't fear anything or worry
about anything.
'cause I, I really have a greatbelief in a great spirit or
something like, you know, oflove and mm-hmm.
You know, interconnection withthe earth.
And I think, I think that'salways gonna live on mm-hmm.
You know, we may die, but theYeah.
You know?
Yeah.
No, that's right.
We just wanna destroy ourselves.
Yeah.
Well that's it, eh, yeah.

(01:03:39):
Yeah.
And we're just a small part ofthis bigger picture.
This bigger picture.
Yeah.
So hopefully we can do somethinggood to help with the next
generations, but I definitely,um, I just, yeah.
I surrender myself to whatever'sgoing on in the, you know, like
in the world of this world.
Yeah.
The real world.
It's beautiful mother natureand, you know, that sort of

(01:04:00):
thing.
Yeah.
And just wanna do what we can tohelp, you know, help heal her.
Yeah.
And, and bring awareness to howwe can care for her.
Yeah.
And also in doing that, becauseyou know what we do to the land
we do to ourselves.
Mm-hmm.
So like, that's why I lovepermaculture and teaching about
soil and healthy eating.
'cause it's not just aboutlooking after the land, but if
we do that, then we are healthybodies and we have healthy
minds.
Mm-hmm.

(01:04:20):
And then you've got strong,healthy people and you know, and
then we can be, um, you know,thinking clearly and seeing
what's real and what's not real.
Things like that, you know?
Yeah.
You know, it's alsointerconnected, so.
Yeah, definitely.
And I guess if you're feelingoverwhelmed and oh fuck, it's
all crazy and all this warsgoing on and all that sort of

(01:04:42):
thing.
Um, yeah.
Surrendering to something,something like God, nature,
love, whatever you may wannacall it.
Great spirit.
Just something bigger than us.
It's like a, it's a journey anda cycle.
Like there's a saying, um, uh,you know, uh, the ancestors
descend into the growinggenerations.

(01:05:04):
Um.
You know, so it's like the cycleof life.
Yeah.
That goes on and on.
So say that saying again?
Uh, you know, the ancestorsdescend into the growing
generations.
Yeah.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, um, so yeah, I, I sort ofbelieve this.
So I think like, yeah, justsurrendering to what is and, and
whatever we can do positivealong the way, even if it's

(01:05:25):
small things, surely will have,it's trusting it.
Yeah.
Trusting that it's all sort ofhappening as it's meant to.
Yeah.
Like whatever's going on iswhat's meant to be going on.
It's part of the That's right.
It is the plot that's unfolding.
Exactly.
And to just like, it's goingwith the flow, but also knowing
that you have power and controlwithin it.
Yeah.
So you have agency within it.
Yeah.
But you also are a characterwithin a plot that exists.

(01:05:45):
So it's a bit like being acharacter in a computer game.
Yeah.
Like you are confined to beingwithin that computer game, but
you also like.
Can do anything within thatgame.
Mm-hmm.
And possibly could rewrite thecode.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's something that we might,you know.
Yes.
Well, we might, we can, I'm, I'mvery into rewriting the code.
Yeah.
Come on.
We gotta rewrite this code.
Exactly.
Well, that's kind of what thenonsense and the chaos means.

(01:06:06):
Yeah.
Because it's like, it is, it isnonsense and it is chaos, but
it's so much that, that actuallyanything really is possible.
Yeah.
And to really believe thatbecause we do our inner world
does create the outer world.
It does.
Definitely.
You know, our thoughts do createour world.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
I mean, even just like.
Like, I dropped a glass theother day and I was like angry

(01:06:28):
there's no room left for us toput glasses.
And it was, it was completely anaccident, but I picked the glass
up and it was like, we've got noroom for this glass.
And then I dropped it.
in my inner world I was like, Ikind of made that happen, but I
also didn't mean to do it.
Yeah.
And, but it's that, like, that'sjust a tiny example of what we
do, but our, what we arethinking happens, it manifests
in and out world all the time.
A hundred percent.

(01:06:48):
Yeah.
But that even includes likereally far out ideas, you know,
you can fully believe and go forYeah.
You know, complete love andpeace and unity and Yeah.
Or fighting, you know, the deepsea di deep sea mining.
Yeah.
And to be like, it's possible.
It's totally possible to dothat.
Yeah.
And you can change the worldaround you.
Yeah, definitely.
And I mean, even if you, even ifit didn't work out.

(01:07:09):
Like, so you weren't successful,but at least you've been a
voice.
Yeah.
And you've said something whichis better than saying nothing.
Yeah.
Because if, if we just to staysilent and let these things go,
then what are we, we are justlike muppets puppets.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Puppets.
Muppets and Muppets.
You know, let's go.
We've gotta be like, okay, seewhat's happening and hold people
accountable and at least speakup for our earth and resources

(01:07:31):
and people that don't have avoice.
'cause there's a lot of peopleout there that don't have, yeah,
I guess I feel very privileged.
I guess we're very lucky'causewe have freedom of movement.
We have freedom.
A lot of freedom.
And there's a lot of people outthere that aren't unfortunately
in that same position.
So, um, especially having theirlands taken or polluted by, you

(01:07:53):
know, big corporations and allthat sort of thing.
And yeah, if they try and speakup, they get killed because they
can be, you know, there's allthose things and yeah.
So I always feel.
Uh, like, uh, you know, I havethis place of privilege that I
get to be able to have a voiceor mm-hmm.
Or, you know, move about andspeak or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
So I feel like it's important todo that.
I don't think people ever seewhere they are in the privilege

(01:08:15):
pyramid.
Yeah.
You know, it's like you can seethe privilege of the people
above you.
Mm-hmm.
But I, I think it's really hardto appreciate where you are with
the people below you.
Yeah.
Because you're just blind to it,you know?
Yeah.
You can always look up and pointthe finger up Yeah.
Yeah.
And be like, you are doing this,you are doing that.
But it's like, but also yeah,we, there's so many people
beneath you Yeah.
That, that, that would doanything to have your Exactly.

(01:08:38):
Existence.
Absolutely.
Like, you know, just being ableto move, you know, just, there's
so many things for women, likein some places they're not
allowed to be educated or driveor, yeah.
Simple things, eh?
Yeah.
And we are very lucky to be ableto do whatever we wanna do,
really.
Yeah.
And have, you know, freedom.
Yeah.
So, um, so yeah, I think it'simportant for us to use that and

(01:08:58):
also to acknowledge it.
Like, if, if you're in a placewhere you are able to be free, I
guess you have to know ityourself because you could be
kept confined by your, yourbitterness towards someone, you
know, then you're not free orwhatever that may be, that's
tripping you down.
Yeah.
You know?
Absolutely.
So, but if you can get into thatplace of freedom and then, and
like you say, manifest areality, we want to see Yeah.

(01:09:20):
And know, speak about it.
Imagine it, think about it, talkabout it, make it happen.
Yeah.
You have to imagine it.
Yeah, you do.
And we have to like keep goingwith that.
Yeah.
So that was the amazing RollsRoll.

(01:09:41):
I'm just so pleased that she hadtime while in soc to make the
podcast with me.
I would really like to getinvolved in creating the SOC
plan and visioning and dreamingwhat the future of this island
might be.
And it's just all very excitingat the moment.
Um, it, yeah, I just am excitedabout the possibilities of what

(01:10:02):
we could create in a world thatis otherwise just.
Go mad.
And so let's do somethingincredible and special and
beautiful here where we are allon the same page and we are all
inspired and, and yeah, careabout what's going on.
I always think the two thingsthat are most special about SARC
is our biodiversity of communityand of nature.

(01:10:22):
Like I don't want there to justbe one type of person here.
I like the fact that it's aperfect cross section of
society.
I think it's really important.
I think it means that we aremore, uh, resilient because of
that.
And, and also I think it'salmost like a, like, I feel like
there should be case studies or,or some place of, um, scientific
research because it's so uniqueto have such a, a, an array in

(01:10:46):
variety and all of society tosome extent represented.
You know, it's not all white.
It's, it's not all straight.
It's, it's got a mix there for500 people.
I'd say it's probably one of themost diverse communities I've
ever been in.
And.
And we're all here and we're allgetting on, right?
Because humans are humans andit's incredible.
So I think preserving that andpreserving our natural,

(01:11:10):
beautiful.
Stunning island is, is key.
And we just need to work out howwe do that.
Um, and, and that we're all inagreement and all supportive of
it, and it feels right for allof us.
And then take it from there.
Um, and, you know, um, it justmeans that we'll then be sort of
protected from people coming in,going what sock needs, which
does make everyone's bum holestighten.

(01:11:32):
It's just like.
Don't tell Sark what Sark needs.
Um, yeah, I just think it'sexciting for us to create
something ourselves that we areall excited and inspired by.
But anyway, that's enough timesaying the word.
Excited.
That's me.
Done.
Uh, I shall speak to you nextweek and until then, see the
anon.

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