Obii Ifejika on Finding Purpose Through Poetry

In this episode of Odejuma, Harry is in conversation with talented UK-based Nigerian poet and multidisciplinary artist Obii Ifejika for an in-depth exploration of storytelling, identity, and legacy. Obii reflects on her journey, revealing how she found her voice through performance poetry in Nigeria and how she has embraced new creative experiences in the UK.

Their conversation highlights the significance of mentorship, the courage needed for self-expression, and how community influences an artist’s journey. Obii opens up about her creative process and her aspirations to leave a lasting mark in literature, as well as the responsibilities that come with being an artist.

The episode also features two powerful live poetry performances, giving listeners an intimate look into Obii's artistry. This conversation is a celebration of poetry's transformative power and the beauty of Black creative expression.

Subscribe to Obii's Substack: Sober Sundays | Obii Ifejika | Substack

For more information on Harry: About — Harry Itie

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, my name is Harry, andwelcome to Odejuma.
Odejuma recognizes the magicof storytelling.
From personal experiences tostories of adventure, from tales
of resilience to finding joyin the simple things, this story
seeks to inspire, entertain,and educate because there is power
in the stories of everydaypeople, and these stories are worth

(00:22):
telling.
Hey, y'.
All.
Welcome to another excitingepisode of Odejuma.
I'm super excited about myguest today.
I have known her for a while,and she is just an amazing individual.

(00:45):
I have with me Obi Ifejika.
Hi, Obi.
How are you?
Hi, Harry.
So good to be talking with you today.
I'm quite excited.
I am excited to talk to you.
I feel like.
I don't know, I'm just movedby your art.
I'm moved by your work, and Ifeel like when I was, you know, walking

(01:08):
through.
Who do I want to have on thispodcast, on this new iteration of
my creative journey, who do Iwant to be speaking with?
You know, it was very easy.
I'm like, definitely, Obi.
Because, you know, we.
Even though we've been friendsfor a while now, your work has deeply
resonated with me through the years.

(01:29):
Yeah.
And I'm just excited to be here.
How have you been, though?
How.
How's it going?
What's up with you?
So since we.
Since we last saw, there havebeen many iterations of me, and I've.
I've evolved so much, and Ididn't know it, I think, until I
decided to take stock.
And you know how it is whenyou're working and you're putting

(01:50):
in things.
You might not know that you'redoing something, but then you have
to look back and be like,that's who I was before, you know,
and this is who I am now.
And it is because of thatperson before.
So it's been.
It's been really good.
The biggest change in my lifenow is Moving to the UK, right.
On a global tournament visa.
So starting from Basi IP'snatural national poetry slab to this

(02:13):
point, like, everything hasjust been evidence of my work.
And you're like, okay, youdeserve to be here.
I guess.
And so.
Yeah.
And so I am.
So it's very, very affirmingthat it is my creative work that
brought me here.
It's so, like, so.
Because, I mean, I never wouldhave chosen school.
I have too much trauma thereto go back into a classroom, you

(02:36):
know, I bet.
I guess the other thing wouldhave been work, but it's so, so validating
for it to be my creative Workthat brought me here.
And if you look back and if Ilook back, like, really honestly,
it's like, why not?
You know, I took everythingthat I was learning and I did something
with it.
The one woman play evolvedinto one other kind of show, you

(02:56):
know, that I even hope to be doing.
Like, almost every year I'vetried to involve myself in projects.
I've tried to createopportunities for other emerging
poets as well as in Nigeria.
And I come here and I'm okaysaying, like, okay, I could actually
do the same thing here.
So it's just always thesemoving pieces.
And being a creative, it'snever like, I know that my work will

(03:19):
evolve.
I know that I'm going to do,like, really, you know, cool things
with it.
I've just always been one ofthose people that kind of want to
bring some people along forthe ride.
Maybe it's in the way that Icame into my work.
Like, people took me along forthe ride and I knew I was better
for it.
So that's kind of, that's,that's, that's what I'm also looking
forward to as well.

(03:40):
Yeah.
And I'm just curious, like,when you, the moment when you decided
to start writing poetry, didyou ever imagine that this was where
your life was gonna end up?
Never.
In fact, there was no dream.
Can I say something?
So somebody asked me recently,like, how did your family feel about

(04:00):
you, you know, writing poetry?
Like, did they ever try tostop your dream?
Like, you came so far, itseems like somebody drove you.
I said, I came.
I got this far, or on my sheerwill alone.
And it's not because my familydidn't support me.
They supported all the winds.
They supported me because theysaw the wins.
Like, it never occurred tothem, like, you know, she's doing

(04:23):
poetry, stop her.
Because I had a job.
So I'm sure they felt like,okay, she's not actually throwing
her life away, but every timethey would hear about poetry, I would
have achieved something.
I won the poetry slam.
I, you know, traveled places.
I did finding home.
I went to Germany to dofinding, like, different things like
that.
You're going to the uk.

(04:43):
It's poetry.
So every time they've hadpoetry, it's been something big.
So there's never been.
They never needed to careenough to stop me because they've
just been wins.
And that's very interesting.
I just realized thateverything about my being here, everything
about my getting to this pointhas really been by my sheer will
of, like, I love this thing so much.
I Can't lose it.
And I just mean it.

(05:03):
I'm doing it.
Like, that was something.
When I realized that, I reallyheld it very strong because I'm like,
I had no reason to hold on to poetry.
I had no reason to continue tocreate work around it that didn't
seem like it was goinganywhere or that the pattern to sustaining
the work was doing somecommercial gigs here and there, then
going back home, you know,because, like, there's, like, an

(05:24):
institutional path to, like,follow was like, there is more to
this thing, and I want to do it.
I want to keep doing it.
And here we are.
So, Obi, when did you discoveryour love for poetry, and what was
that process like for you?
I saw somebody else writing poetry.
I would just see, like,scribbles in notes and everything.
And it seemed.
I don't know, it just seemed interesting.

(05:46):
And the next time I kind ofwent into the library.
This was secondary school.
Next time I went into thelibrary, I started to pull out poetry
books.
All these anthologies that youwould have with William Blake, Christian
Erosetti, all those kind of,you know, all people.
David Diop.
Yes.
As well.
So I. I would.
Because I wasn't a. I wasn'tan art student, so I had to actually

(06:06):
go to the library to get someof this information.
And then I think every writerhas this part which, you know, because
you admire something, youstart to copy before you finally
find, like, your own voice orlearn how to do it well.
So that's really what I was doing.
And I loved it.
Like, I would just be in thelibrary and be immersing myself in
poetry.
And I started writing, andpeople liked what I write, and I

(06:27):
liked that they liked what I write.
So I wrote some more notebooksand notebooks and notebooks of writings
that I know, like, the firsttwo notebooks I've ever written were
imitations of other people's work.
So I'm okay with it.
But then I started writing,writing for real, for myself, and
I just haven't stopped ever since.
I was just always looking forpeople who would read my work and

(06:47):
say something about it.
Yeah.
And that was how I started,and I kind of continued.
When did you decide that youwanted to do it professionally?
That, okay, this.
This thing that I fell in lovewith in secondary school is going
to be the thing that I want topursue now professionally and as
an adult and, you know, tofulfill my needs and stuff like that.

(07:09):
Man.
I think even.
Even five years ago, I wasstill struggling with doing poetry
professionally.
And doesn't Mean, yeah,because I never thought of it as
the core of my professionalism.
I always had to pay it withsomething else because, you know,
I mean, down the line it wasclear that this thing wasn't going
to feed me when I was gettingpaid 5k for gigs.

(07:32):
And, you know, and then I, by.
The way, just to explain tofolks, so folks were like, 5k for
a gig.
That's a lot.
5000 Nigerian error.
I need to keep my day job, butI can't do this at night, so.
But I would say that.
I mean, because now we'retalking about performance poetry.
So Deaf Poetry Jam was thedoor to ever wanting to be on stage.

(07:56):
It was just so kismet that Ihave been watching all these videos
and all the shoes and you knowhow these things are when you're
watching them screen, you callsomebody else, come and see this.
So I just.
It was just something I wasreally excited about when I discovered
it.
I watched as much of it as Icould, only to come see that one
of them, the only Nigerian onethat was there, was coming to do

(08:17):
like a natural national poetryslam in Nigeria.
And I have just been writingsince then.
I hadn't performed, so theslam was like my first performance.
And it went the way it wentbecause, like, I absorbed all of
their work.
I, you know, I was reallyinside of it.
So even winning, that was justlike, oh, like, this is another level
of this thing.
We're not just writing now.

(08:38):
We've unlocked something else,you know, and at that time, I didn't
even know there was a poetrycommunity in Nigeria, like performance,
you understand, like,everything was fully new to me and
in, in kind of engaging with that.
I was just saying, okay,still, the art doesn't pay, but,
you know, the feeling is priceless.

(08:59):
So we can work, we can do thisat night when the opportunity shows
it itself.
I think that has forever beenmy struggle because wanting to, like,
you know what, let me do thisthing in such a very aggressive,
I'm here for it way.
And it's like, yes, I want todo that, but I'm not going to compromise
the work that I have.
And not compromising, per se,but just that the work that I have

(09:20):
does overwhelm me enough forme to literally put, you know, poetry
to the side and everything.
So, like, that's why I cansee, like, up to five years I was
still, like, professionally professionally.
But you know, how many monthsago somebody asked me, oh, hi, so
what do you do for a living?
And I said, I'm a Poet.
I wanted to cry.
I had never, never introducedmyself as a poet before.

(09:43):
Like I was a poet, full stop.
I didn't have to do, oh, Iwrite sometimes.
I also design, I create websites.
A poet.
And I had to sit with that fora few days and realize what it meant
for me because I'm in this country.
Poetry brought me here.
Like everything I have done inthe last 10 years led up to this
moment builds me up to this person.

(10:04):
So why, why do I.
And I'm in a place where thereis a little more appreciation, there's
a little more opportunitiesthan where it is that I've come from.
So I'm a poet, that's me.
And I'm a good one.
And you know, it's like thereis no need to fold it into anything.
There is no need to justifyit, make it.

(10:24):
That's what I am.
That's what I am.
That's real.
That's real.
And it's very interesting thatyou, I feel like you meet people
and you are having a differentexperience of them than they are
having of themselves, youknow, And I'm realizing that the
more as I, you know, do thispodcast and I just remember when
I met you, I met you in theperformance circuit, right?

(10:49):
I met you at Tarua.
And those were like reallygreat memories for me because I felt
like I was, you know, I wasimmersed in the creative community.
I feel like I am a creative by association.
Like I want to curate, I wantto, I want to curate the art.
Whether it's the poets, it'sthe singers, it's the rappers, it's

(11:12):
the, the playwrights, thetheater people.
Like, I want to be in that space.
And we were in that spacetogether in Nigeria with like Tarua
and you know, with like Lydiaand all the great things that they
were doing.
And then Ifipaul with like,with like the Lagos Poetry Festival
and with like finding homethat you, you, you referenced and

(11:33):
with Wana and Titi and allthese amazing people.
Very interesting to hear yousay that throughout that period of
time when you were doing thisamazing work, you did a one woman
show at the Lagos Theater Festival.
You know, I was at theinaugural, inaugural, inaugural show.
So it's just interesting tohear you say that you, you know,

(11:57):
throughout that period in timedidn't see yourself as a professional
person.
And you know, and that is very valid.
I'm not, I'm not trying totake that away from your experience.
What I'm saying that like, youknow what I'm saying.
I'm here being like, oh, thisis an awesome creative who's just
doing amazing work.
I'm here like falling over,like fan g, you know what I'm saying?

(12:17):
I remember, I remember I havea story.
So, God, this is interesting.
One of the people that Idated, one of the people I dated
in Nigeria, I remember, oh Lord.
I remember your one woman show.
And I was going there and Imet them on the way and I was like,
you have to come see this person.
They're amazing, they're good,you have to come.

(12:39):
And this was like my firsttime meeting them in person, engaging
with them and I dragged themto your show.
So I'm just trying to let youknow, like the impact that you had
or that you have always hadbasically, you know.
But I, I hear what you're saying.
I want to say something aboutthat because, you know, this is crazy.
I was doing a one woman showthat was backed by the British Council,

(13:01):
right?
And I was still telling youthat maybe up to five years ago.
I don't know about like fullybeing professional as a poet or fully
embracing that title.
And it wasn't because peoplecouldn't call me a poet, but I needed
you to know I was 10 otherthings so that you would find some
value in me as a person.

(13:22):
Like, I was putting out all ofthis work.
I was working and associatedwith like so many amazing people
that were doing other amazing things.
But I needed you to know I was10 other things apart from just being.
I'm not just a poet or I'mlike this, this, this, this, that.
So it's really interesting,like you said, like people, you could
be seeing people through oneeye and they're having like a completely,

(13:43):
you know, different experiencewith what it is that is going through
them.
But I think I'm just glad thatI am here and I'm able to be here
because I think I could stillbe in Nigeria and have that same
impression of myself.
Because if I.
The part of what gives me thisaudacity is like, I turned my life
around or I completelyabandoned everything I have been

(14:08):
and have ever known to be a poet.
That's.
That's exactly what I am.
Like, yeah, it's fine.
That is real.
That is, that is so real.
And I think that a lot ofpeople go through that phase where
it's like, you know, I amdoing things, I'm adding value to
the world, but I'm not sure ifmy value is being received in a way

(14:30):
that I want it to be received.
And so when we are in thatspace where we are a little bit unsure.
We tend to have those momentswhere we have to add layer upon layer
of the things that we do sothat people can be like, oh, I am
not just a hairdresser, butI'm also a. I also work at the bank
and I also style on the side.

(14:50):
You know what I'm saying?
And I feel like I'm justreally happy that you've been able
to fully sit in your powernow, because now you are a poet,
you know, and you are part ofa mentorship program, a very highly
sought after mentorshipprogram, you know, with the hundred
of applicants trying to get in.
And you got in, you know,being like the only black African

(15:14):
woman in that experience.
Right.
Talk to me about, talk to usabout that.
I.
Let's sit in your power for alittle bit, you know, let's have
that conversation.
I was.
It's still crazy to me, right?
Because this program you'retalking about is being hosted, I
don't know if that's the rightlanguage by nine Arch Purse here

(15:34):
in the uk and it's called likea dynamo.
I'm like, what I'm.
What you call me now is like adynamo mentee, Like, I'm a dynamo
poet.
And what it means is 18 monthsof mentorship support and guidance
from them, whether you'retrying to create like a body of work
or whatever, take you as anearly stage poet who, you know, lives,

(15:55):
works, and, you know, studiesin the UK to whatever it is you're
trying to do, publishingcontemporary poetry, just in general.
And when I got this, I waslike, I never get picked for stuff.
What do you mean?
Like, I have gotten into this program.
So it was very empowering tobe part of something like this, to
be the only African in the mix.

(16:16):
It's like I was asking myself,what did I write?
What did I write that, youknow, got me picked?
But it's one of those thingswhere it's like, you know what?
It's my time.
I've worked for this thing,I've built myself up, I've managed
my platforms, I have continuedto write and continue to share my
work and the work itself.
I am always thinking of waysto improve it.
So why wouldn't a mentorshipprogram feel like this is the person

(16:40):
they want to help take to thenext level?
Like it is.
It is something so incredible.
And to also be in that lineupof women who I just like, gotten
a peek of some of the workthat they've been doing and it elevates
it even more for me.
Like, these are the people I'min the midst of very.
Yes, thank you.
And how would you say thatyour, your work is changing been

(17:04):
in this program?
Like, what, what are thevisible changes you're seeing to
how you approach your artright now?
So, you know, everything aboutmy process as a poet is I did not
go to school for poetry.
I got into a library.
I started studying and I never stopped.
So I always say somethinglike, I wanted to move from kind
of self taught, self taught tolike, well thought.

(17:25):
And with the program, I ampaired with like a mentor who is
like, you know, what is what,what, what do you want to do?
What are some of the thingsthat, you know, if I'm giving you
40 minutes right now, what isthat thing that you're going to step
up to the stage to do or likeyou want to write about?
And it allows you just be in aspace where you're like, I'm in a

(17:47):
place where anything is possible.
Like, just.
And I don't have to write onekind of story.
I don't have to explore onekind of narrative.
So being in this program justopens that.
I know it's like cliche or something.
It's not just opportunities now.
It's like you can thinkdifferently and it's okay.
You can like be more daringwith what it is that you would have

(18:10):
written.
You don't need to confineyourself into the things that you've
taught yourself all this while.
Like, there's so much more.
Like, one of the things theyhad done recently was share some
books, you understand, with us.
It's not like, I've not beenreading before, but now is like,
okay, now that you're tryingto read to create your own work,
what about this thing, youknow, say something to you?

(18:31):
And then working with likesuch a mentor that has gone through
all the paths that I have gonethrough is very, very like somebody's
holding my hand through thisentire process to see how I can be
on the other side of it.
It feels very like it's one ofthe greatest things about my time
here so far.
I really enjoy it.
And, you know, they alwaystell me, like, whenever you're putting

(18:52):
yourself forward forsomething, whenever you're doing
anything, always mention thatyou're a dynamo poet.
Like, it's going to lock some doors.
And that also, like, so thisis even this powerful.
I'm, I'm for it and I justwant to make sure that I'm taking
full advantage right as possible.
What what is taking fulladvantage looking like for you in

(19:15):
this moment?
What are like, some of thethings that you are doing or you
want to or you're hoping to doright now with this platform that
you have currently?
I think all.
I think right now all I'mdoing is making my mentor's job difficult
because he's trying to get meto like, obi, can we narrow down
to some things?
I'm like, sir, I want to do everything.
I want to do this.

(19:36):
No, no, we can do like.
So I'm making his jobdifficult, but I think it's also
in a good way, because what hecan tell me is that, okay, you know
what?
You will do this, but we willshelf this for after.
Can you take off these things first?
Because that energy ofanything is possible when you settle
into it.
You don't even sleep the same.
You don't sleep the same, youdon't think the same, you don't wake

(19:57):
up the same.
It's like you want to do something.
And like, let's.
Let's change how we thinkabout that because why anything is
possible now with this project.
So with working in it, I don'thave to say I'm just working on a
book or I'm just working on a performance.
I'm actually doing both at thesame time.
So I could be telling you likein the next year, because it's for

(20:19):
18 months, which even beforethen, like, oh, in the next year
you could probably see like aproduction from me.
At the same time, my book thateverybody has been beating me about
might be on its way or, or atleast we'll start having legs so
I can come out of this thingwith a fullness, you know, to validate
all the stuff that is in my head.
Like there's a place for themto go that feels really.

(20:42):
That's real.
That's right.
I like that.
I like that.
Are you ever going to doSwallow again?
Do you think that there's apossibility for that?
I know I will do Swallow again.
I know I would do Swallow.
I'll probably do it with thesame poster.
I like, I love.
But, you know, you know, Ifeel like, you know, I probably wouldn't
even jump in the gun.
Can we tell the audience whatSwallow is?

(21:03):
So Swallow is a one woman showI had written.
It was commissioned by theBritish Council for Lagos theater
festival in 2019.
Um, it's a one woman showwhere I play eight characters.
And the premise of Swallow isthat, you know, it was on this idea
and just the Reality that Iunderstand, which is, you know, women

(21:25):
are often taught to be silent,to be quiet.
And it's not just in theliteral way of don't speak up.
It's also in the things thatconcern or quiet women.
It always needs to be hidden,never said too loud.
So.
So that's like the fullconcept of swallow.
And So I play eight charactersfrom a 15 year old child, even to

(21:46):
a woman, a widow, who's losther husband.
So I explore themes of teenagepregnancy, all these barbaric rites
of widowhood and pregnancy,and it gets really light.
It's not because everythingisn't a tragedy.
Right.
So there's a narrative thereabout a woman who's.
Okay, I don't know if it'sgreat for the podcast.

(22:07):
Yeah.
I'm just saying, like, thereare light and fun stories within
it, as.
And so, yeah, I play eightcharacters on stage and I use like
different elements on thestage to like change to each character
because I never actually leavethe stage.
And it was such a beautifulexperience for me when I did this
in 2019.
I'm just like, I have to do it again.
So I always know that I willdo swallow again.
I just know that, you know, Iam a different person than I was

(22:30):
then.
And there are more storiesthat I want to tell and share right
now.
So I'm looking forward to whatthat will look like with everything
that I know.
I think the more I wait to doit, the more difficult it becomes
to do it because I'm like, no,this story.
No, this story.
No, that's theory.
So I think I would save thatproblem for my mentor.
Yeah.

(22:50):
And I feel like just the work is.
The work is amazing.
The work is beautiful.
Your work is so.
It feels like a hug, you know,And I am so happy that I got to experience
it in person.
I got to experienceexperience, to have that experience
being the audience as, youknow, receiving that.

(23:12):
And everybody who was, youknow, in that room could feel the
power of the work that youwear or part of the work and the
power of your art.
You know what I'm saying?
So that was really good.
And I really hope that, youknow, obviously it's going to evolve,
it's going to change.
It's like different iterationsor something, you know.
Yeah, I think that there'sroom for that.
Do you feel?

(23:33):
Yeah, no, go ahead.
Did you want to say something?
No, I'm gonna say like, even with.
Even with like swallow.
Then I remember when you dosomething like that, you're wondering,
like, have I Done.
Have I actually.
Has it gone somewhere?
Because you want thatvalidation from somebody other than
yourself.
And I think the president ofthe festival at the time was just
like, oh, you know, that'sactually maybe our top three shows

(23:54):
at this festival.
And I was like, okay, you did that.
I was like, okay.
Because there is nothing Ilove about poetry than somebody who
is not into poetry telling methat they liked my.
Because I feel like, okay,it's gone beyond myself.
Right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That is.
That is very real.
I have a question about, like,your poet, your poetry.

(24:15):
Is there, like a poem that youhave that is therapeutic for you?
Like, you go back to.
And it's like healing for you.
It's like, you know what I'm saying?
Like, I find a level of solace there.
Is there any poem like that?
Yes, that happened.
That happened actually quiterecently in my early years of poetry

(24:38):
when I just finished Islam.
The poem I was finding a lotof comfort in was God is in My Bones.
And I was telling somebodyrecently, like, that's like, I have
like three poems.
I used to enter this.
This business, right?
God is in My Bones was such acore one because he talked about
my journey with scoliosis andall of that.
I was like, you know what?

(24:58):
I'm going to actually post iton my Instagram because it doesn't
exist anywhere else.
You know, there are norecordings of, like the slam and
stuff.
But I've had this newsletterthat I have been running for the
past three years, and therewas a poem that I published in January.
And the way that I go back toit, I've never had my own poem comfort

(25:20):
me before.
It does.
So I was.
I'm still surprised by.
You can hear that in my voice.
Like, I wrote something formyself and my.
My.
That my newsletter isactually, you know, I write from
poem from prompts.
So I'm either writing like apoem this week, next week it might
be like a story.

(25:42):
So it coming out at all, youknow, without me thinking too much
is almost like, you know, it'slike, it must be true, you know.
So, yeah, I do have it.
I'm trying to.
I'm going to.
I'm going to find this for youright now.
Yeah.
And the newsletter is Silver Sundays.
I would link it in thedescription for folks so they could
subscribe.

(26:02):
It's powerful.
Every Sunday I get it.
And if you know how to, youknow, work an RSS feed, you can actually
get it on like, Apple Podcastor something.
So, like, just comes as a podcast.
Yeah, just FYI.
For the folks listening.
Okay, so I actually have it here.
And yes, it is sober Sundays,every Sunday.
And I haven't missed a Sundayfor the past three years.

(26:24):
So it's been this meditativepractice in writing.
Because now I can never sayI'm going through writer's block
or anything like that, becausenow I have a way through it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So.
So the prompt I was workingwith is, she was surprised.
And here goes the poem.
I have learned to vanish, todisappear into the moments that color

(26:48):
each day without the crotch ofa clock leaning on it or stopping
my wandering eyes from dartingto the doorway or the window or any
crack of light that promises escape.
I have learned to stand in aroom, to bear the weight of its silence
without feeling for the exitsign, without the body alarm clock

(27:12):
ticking into another anxiety.
I do not justify each bite.
All I know is flavour andrelish and the sweetness of forbidding
touch and the gasps they set free.
Not holding back my moans ordenying the cartographer his wage,

(27:33):
orgasmic or otherwise.
No weaving myself intostories, no asking to be remade.
Instead, I open my mouth andlet the wind carry my name to corners
I will never see.
And to my surprise, I am still here.

(27:58):
That was beautiful, Obi.
That was beautiful, Obi.
What is it about that poemthat comforts you?
I mean, it's.
First of all, the poem itselfis a surprise, you know, because
like I said, I write from prompts.
I don't think about what I'mtrying to write.
I just put it out there, thensee what I have put out there.
So, like, we would normallysay stuff like this still needs to

(28:19):
be edited and all thosethings, but before I even get there,
what resonates deeply withthis poem for me is the ability to
sit in stillness, to sit inworry, to also sit in joy, and not
try to move on to the next moment.
Like, it's what we easily do.
Like, every time you'recrying, somebody comes to say, stop

(28:40):
crying.
It's okay.
Maybe I need to cry for 10more days.
You know, Maybe the someonesomebody won't tell you.
Like, I've been in situations,even when I was younger, and someone's
like, oh, you know, you laughtoo much.
Like, it's okay.
Like, you laugh too much.
Maybe I need to laugh some more.
Because it is for this momentand this moment only, and the next
moment, I don't know what will happen.
And it also speaks aboutstifling in every way, you know,

(29:04):
stifling in expressingyourself as a person, as a writer,
as A woman as a sexual being.
And it's.
It just seems in very fewwords to some of this idea, like
everything can happen and youare just this transient person.
Like, things will move through you.
He will still survive.
And it's something that I needto hear that I would still survive.

(29:27):
That's real.
That's really real.
And I'm really happy that youshared it.
You know, it was.
It wasn't planned, maybe wewere going to do this conversation.
You know, there was no planfor you to perform a poem.
But you know, like I always,like I've said before, I am very
moved by your art and I feelvery moved in this moment.
So thank you for sharing that.

(29:48):
Thank you, Harry.
I mean, it takes me back to apoem that, you know, I love.
And you call it the doorknobpoem and you've performed it, you
know, for a while.
But it's one of my favorite.
Like, it's one of my favorite poems.
You know how you have anartist that just has a particular
poem that you just really,really, really love so much.

(30:08):
Like, wanna has catfish.
I love catfish.
Till.
Till tomorrow.
But you have this poem, theDonna poem.
And in the poem, you know,there's a line about capturing fireflies
and putting it in the bottleand everything.
And it's such a beautiful poem.
And I'm like, since we'rehere, we are here in this world,
we're here now.

(30:30):
And you've done one, you know,by off the cuff.
Wasn't planned.
You decided that.
Okay, fine.
I want to give this peoplelistening a taste of the OB magic.
I would like to ask kindly ifyou would like to share that poem

(30:53):
with folks.
And you don't have to.
You have free will.
You have age.
Effective.
Like, nope.
Subscribe to the newsletter ifyou want to hear it or, you know,
wait till the book comes out.
But yeah, I feel like that isa poem.
I feel like everybody needs to hear.
It's interesting you said thatbecause when I got here to the uk,
the first circuit ofperformances I was making, I was

(31:13):
using that poem.
I felt like it was one poem.
Like no matter what I wasdoing, it connected me straight back
into my humanity.
And you know, I would be inthe moment of it.
Like, it's a poem that holdsme until it sets me free.
So I felt like, okay, if I hadto show up like my best self here,
this would be one of thethings I would like people to hear

(31:34):
from me.
I don't know if you rememberthat it started a song.
It starts with A song that I wrote.
I never wrote it into, like, afull song.
Just those few lines.
And what it does is.
Speaks to, like, the mindsetof the character of the poem.
I guess we can talk about thatwhen I'm done.
So the poem, the donor poem.

(31:56):
That poem was entitled For Years.
Then I was like, the door knobpoem, Definitely.
Why did you call it the doorknob before you perform?
What was the reason for that?
Why Doorknob?
If I could make this poem intoa movie, into a short film, it was
about this person standing atthe door.

(32:18):
And, like, the entire poemoccurs with that person standing
by the door, waiting to justwalk right out, not having a conversation
about, like, right there.
So it was like, yeah, why not?
Like, it doesn't need to have.
I felt like I'm fine with ithaving this kind of literal name
and not something.

(32:39):
Because it already has a lotgoing on as a piece of work.
And I think when you also hearthe donor poem, you're like, what's
that?
Then you hear the poem and itsurprises you.
Yeah.
So that's.
That's about it.
So the poem.
Tell me, tell me what's tomorrow?

(33:01):
I didn't know.
Didn't know how you change.
One minute we were kissingunder covers.
Next thing I know, you'rewalking out the door.
You're walking out for sure.

(33:23):
One day we will both wake upto a reality that I cannot love you
anymore.
When that day comes, I wantyou to brave my decision.
Sit me down and tell our story again.
Because we should always be together.
Like glue or just like twopeople should be.
Start from the beginning,leave nothing untold.

(33:45):
Tell me of the future we planned.
Tell me of the first things Isaw in your eyes.
Remind me why we laughed andhow we laughed.
Just leave nothing untold.
You know that I've always been impatient.
So while you're talking, I'mstanding at the door with my hand
on the doorknob waiting toturn it.

(34:05):
I'm standing at that door withmy heart peeking from my sleeves,
waiting to escape us like Idid once before.
Tell me about that time.
The time I stood holding thisdoorknob like a lifeline, wearing
the same boots, looking thesame way like I endured open heart
surgery for anything you say.
And I believe I'll take a step back.

(34:27):
So tell me about love.
Not how you love me.
How I promised to write yourname on each star so I will always
find my way home.
That I broke every compass wehad to be sure I followed my heart.
Remind me of the time IConvinced you that I trapped sunrays
in an empty vodka bottlebecause you hated the duck so much

(34:50):
that I like to be funny andher life that way.
You've always known.
It's my biggest fear.
That I am dead inside.
That I am paralyzed.
That no one told me.
Tell me it's not true.
That I have used poems towrite all the milestones in our lives,
and we've only had five.

(35:12):
Like the time you bought methe moon for Valentine's.
Because I always wanted a giftmy clumsiness couldn't destroy.
So it had to be big, largerthan life.
Because doing the impossiblewas my Hail Mary.
Show me how I prayed and checkif my hand is still on the doorknob.

(35:39):
I was gonna sit in that for a bit.
Just sitting it.
Sit in that for a minute.
That is the brilliance.
That is your work.
Everybody has been in thatspace before, and everybody connects,
which is why it resonates somuch, which is why I've heard it
so many times, and it stillfeels like I'm hearing it for the
first time.

(35:59):
The same feeling of connectionto an artwork.
It's.
It's very irreplaceable.
There's nothing.
There's.
There is nothing like it.
When you hear something sobeautiful and you just connect instantly,
you know?
And that is your work.
That is your work, Obi.
I mean, it's just what I wassaying about the poem, like, even

(36:20):
as the person who is readingit, it's.
I respect this poem to hold mein and just keep me there.
When I did, like, I didsomething else with the British Council
recently, just like roughly ayear ago is I created a show from
what I decided were it was allabout love now, about the different

(36:42):
chapters of what it was.
And I was doing my research.
So we have the part where youstart falling in love when things
get conflict.
When there is, like, you know,there's conflict and issues and there's,
like, a resolution to it, andthen there's all these other familial
kinds of love, right, Friendship.
And I wanted to write abouteach of them in chapters.

(37:02):
And I called it Lovers and Others.
And the British Councilsupported the show.
And I put it together with,you know, poetry, and I used nostalgic
music to move it from.
From chapter to chapter.
And I still featured, like,this poem in.
The musician I was workingwith sang the poem, like, the music
part of it.
Like, he sang that part.
And it was so surreal hearingsomebody else, because I've always

(37:25):
had to do that myself, hearingit from somebody else.
Like, feeling like a real song.
I was just in that moment with him.
Like, I forgot that I wasgoing to lead in with the poem itself,
because the way the song comesacross is just to basically say,
okay, this is what we'rethinking about.
There's a friend of mine thatsaid, obi, please, why do you keep

(37:46):
singing this song?
You can't sing.
I said, that's not the pointof it.
It's not really about my voice.
There is a broken person inthis poem that is singing that they
have to sing at all, is the conversation.
It's not.
It's.
It's not about a showcase.
I'm a poet.
I'm not confused about that.
So, yeah, it's.
I really respect this piece of work.

(38:07):
Yeah.
And, I mean, I was talking toyou now about why it's called the
Donald poem.
And so now I'm thinking aboutmaking it into a film.
So here we are.
You know, I feel like we've.
We get our inspirations indifferent ways, and I'm happy you
feel inspired to do a filmfrom it, a short film from it that
will be very powerful also.
And I'm also just verythankful that you share your art,

(38:32):
you know, willingly andvoluntarily for people to experience.
You did that on this podcast,and I really appreciate that.
So thank you.
I'm always down for thatbecause you never know why.
You never know why.
It's not like, what am Isaving it for?
Do you understand?
What am I saving it for?
You never know why I'd beendoing these things where I would

(38:55):
share.
Like, I go to open mic eventsand because, like, imagine all the
open mics I went to inFebruary, for example, I did this
poem.
So all of them, like, maybesomebody helped me record myself,
and I had to put that up onsocial media.
It's like putting the samevideo of myself in different T shirts,
Right.
So when I posted my story, Ijust mute out the poetry and I put

(39:17):
music over it and just let itrun out.
Somebody was like, why do youkeep putting music over the work?
And I'm like, it's the same thing.
Even I had some anxiety aboutperforming it because sometimes I
would see the same people Isaw in another open mic.
Like, it's like doing it tothe same crowd.
And I just said, obi, if thiswas music, you won't say the same
thing.
If this was music, you won'tfeel that way.

(39:37):
So even though I've come to myown and sitting in myself as a poet,
I'm still learning a lot ofstuff about how I consume my own
art and how I choose toexpress my own art.
So, yeah, I.
It's just been like.
It's an experience navigating.
Navigating that in another.
Another world entirely.
That's amazing.

(39:58):
That's really amazing.
I'm going to lighten things upa little bit before we wrap up.
I'm going to do some funtrivia questions.
And I know this is where youshine, really.
I mean, you've been shining since.
You've been shining since.
You'll shine brighter, youknow, Obi has very interesting taste,
so we're gonna hear what hertastes are.

(40:18):
So what are the top threesongs on your playlist right now?
Top three songs.
Picture you, Chaperone.
Is it Picture your.
Picture Me.
A Picture each other.
Wrong.
For some reason, at least forthe past three, four.
Three years.
Just.
It's.
It's not.
Can I say an album?

(40:39):
You can say an album, yeah.
Entire Hamilton playlist.
The soundtrack, like, for thepast three years.
Once I have work to do, I justput it on and I'm going to replay
Uptown, Quiet Uptown andSatisfied like, two, three times
before I let the play discontinue.
Then the other one is, we'renot going to do this.

(41:00):
Simi's first album, the entire thing.
I have to listen to the wholething back to back.
So.
But, you know, the chaperoneone, that particular song, Picture
you, then I will see me.
Like, I would just stopeverything I'm doing and replay,
replay, replay.
That was a good album.
You know, I've been a fan ofSteamy since, you know, we went to
Covenant together.
I've been a fancy sinceCovenant days, her gospel days and

(41:23):
all of that good stuff.
But, you know, on that album,my song is.
Oh, I'm there.
That song is.
And it's very.
It's just.
It's a very nostalgic song.
I don't know why.
There are some songs that Ifeel are very nostalgic for me.
That's song is not Statue.
Write that.
Like, I didn't know that.
That was like, you know, if asong like she covered that was.

(41:47):
No, no, no, that was the onethat she covered.
Yeah.
I think Owen Bell was writtenby her.
Ayomasico is.
But yes, that was in Brazil Bay.

(42:07):
It's.
Yeah, that's a good song, too.
But the Oambe very nostalgicfor me.
Make Believe by Omahomi.
Very nostalgic for me alsobecause, you know, I'm Misha Kiri.
Well, I'm part ishakiri But Ilike to claim Shakiri fully.
My mom is Shaqiri.
I'm is Shaqiri.
So Mikbele also is very nostalgic.
So I get that.

(42:28):
What's.
What's the TV show you arehooked on right now that I'm on right
now?
Yes, they are hooked on hacked.
Okay.
You're like the fifth personsaying hacks to me in like my entire
sphere of life.
Like, hacks, hacks, hacks,hacks, hacks.
I've been telling people about hacks.
Nobody wants to listen.
I'm tweeting about it.
I'm talking about.

(42:48):
It's fine.
You guys don't listen.
You're going to come back intwo years and be like, nobody said
anything about hacks.
Then I'll be like, I havestarted hacks.
To be fair, I haven't.
Just I'm like in episode fourof season one.
But we'll see how it goes.
There's just so much to watchand it's hard to keep up.
And there's work and there'slife and you have to be present for
all of these things.
And so I'm sorry.

(43:10):
Is part of my life.
I'm so sorry.
I can't do this work.
I can't watch tv.
I can't cope.
I don't know that it's adhd.
I don't know what it is, but Ican't cope.
I have to, like, after thisone now I know the next thing that
I'm going to be watching.
So what are you gonna bewatching after Hacks?
I'm going to watch.
And just like that.
Yeah, there's a new season out now.
Yeah, I need to check that out too.

(43:31):
Just so much to watch.
I think I'm just going to goright to that because I'm not interested
in binging it so I don't gettoo annoyed.
That's real.
That is real.
The next one is who are likedream collaborators?
Like, who's like an artistthat you really want to or who are
artists you really want tocollaborate with?
Artists I really want tocollaborate with.

(43:52):
Artists I really want tocollaborate with.
I want Anna Bevere Smith.
I hope I am pronouncing hername correctly.
I want her to direct my onewoman show.
When I wanted to swallow, Itook myself and consumed like some
of the, like clips I have seenabout her about like some of her

(44:15):
theater productions becauseshe does like a one woman show.
But the things that she doesis different, which is that she imbibes
the entire person.
So it could be a real personand she would just transform, use
the person's voice, everythinguntil, like, I want her to direct
me at, like, I want tocollaborate with that woman.
I don't know how it's going tohappen, but I've.

(44:36):
As far as I'm concerned, Ifollowed her from Nigeria, so I'm
closer to her now as much as possible.
I mean, you.
I think Nurse Jackie, sheshowed up in after Blackish.
What was that one?
Mixed dish.
She was the mom stage as well.
But, like, none of the workshe kind of does as an actress follows
through with what she does onstage as a playwright and, you know,

(44:58):
so, like, she's one personthat I don't need to think too much.
I don't know the other person.
I'll have to think, yeah.
And she could be the onlyperson you want to collaborate with.
And that's okay, too, youknow, in this moment in time, in
your journey.
I have this.
I don't have a vision of whatit is, but I can imagine what collaborating
have, like, the kind of workto be so sick.

(45:20):
From your lips to God, toGod's ears, you know, it will.
It will happen.
It will happen.
If they want to understandwhat I'm saying about this woman,
she has a TED Talk.
She does some of her stuff onthat TED Talk.
It's an advanced M. Yeah, I'llput it.
I'll put it in the descriptionso folks can check it out and folks
can see what you're talking about.
Where is a dream destinationfor you?

(45:41):
Where you want to go?
Like, where do you want to goto, like, unwind or.
You know, when people say, Iwant to travel to the shores of wherever
so I can write by the waters.
Do you have a place like thator do you just have a place you want
to just go to and just, like,chill and just unwind from everything?
I want to go to Vietnam.
I've always loved Asian culture.

(46:02):
Yeah, definitely Vietnam.
I just like Asian culture.
So Vietnam has been, like, inmy mind for the longest time.
It's like an easy choice.
Okay, cool.
And finally, what is yourguilty pleasure?
See TV shows.
I will not apologize watchingthem for, like, I.
Having a television.
I don't know if it's actuallyhaving a physical.

(46:22):
Okay, yeah, it's not justhaving a physical television, but
being able to watch, like, TV shows.
I like that I can get, like,fully immersed in another world.
Like, I am inside of it.
That's why I miss all theseother shows.
We used to have that, like, 24episodes and everything where each
character is fleshed out andto their own arc and all those things.

(46:43):
Like, they're a lot of funbecause you could be watching the
whole show and the.
The reason why you likesomebody is not just because of how
they look or something, thatthey dress like story and you.
You're cutting on to it.
I was talking about Mad Menthe other day.
I was like, we're not going tosee anything like Mad Men again.
Where each character had,like, a story.
Like, we would follow sometimes.

(47:04):
We would follow, like John Ham sometimes.
And it was.
It was really, really cool tosee something like that.
So even Old Grey's Anatomy,you know, was that way.
Anatomy was our theme, man.
Like, even.
Yeah, Grace.
Anatomy was that way as well,you know, but it still had this whole.
I mean, of course they werestill focused on, like, one person,
which is like Meredith and stuff.

(47:24):
Well, yeah, I didn't feelguilty about it.
I'm not even apologetic about it.
Well, Obi, the final questionis, what do you want your art to
be the legacy of your art tobe, like, in, like, the next 20 years,
30 years?
What do you want?
How do you want your art toimpact the people?
That's a simple one.
The way I discovered poetrywas going to the library, pouring

(47:48):
over these books, discardingmy own education and pouring over
these books and reading themand just really finding a lot of.
You know, like, my brainopened up in a different way.
And I knew even then that Iwanted my poetry to be read in school.
I wanted the.
Which is why, like, whenpeople are like, obi, your book has
not come out, and all thesethings, like, I know what that book

(48:10):
will be.
You know, I. I want my work tobe so alive that years after they
are debating it, they'rewriting thesis about it, they're
having conversations about it,is moving through the world in different
ways.
They're tearing it apart,saying they hate it.
You know, I want that work tobe alive far longer than I have ever

(48:33):
lived.
And that's what I want from it.
You know, people.
It's art, so people will havetheir interpretation, criticism,
but I want them to have them.
So it's not about, oh, theyread my work and they love it.
They don't know.
It's fine.
But I wanted to have a conversation.
I don't think there's anythingworse than not being in the conversation.
So when my book in schools, Iwant my work in schools.

(48:54):
I wanted to be in places wherepeople are finding new interpretations
of art and they're Like, Obi'swork fits into this thing we're trying
to do.
That's real.
That's real.
Thank you, Obi.
Really appreciate you forcoming on.
I'm excited for people aregoing to get to experience your art,
getting to know, you know, youand the gift that you have.
Thank you for the impromptuperformances that you gave us.

(49:17):
Very appreciative of them.
And I'm excited to see whereyour journey leads.
I know it can only get biggerand better from here.
And, yeah, I'm just excitedfor your.
For what's ahead.
Thank you.
Harry is like, everybody thatis listening, just go and subscribe
to my sub stack because I wantto get, like, 1,000 subscribers this
year.
Maybe I can make some moneyfrom writing every Sunday for you

(49:40):
guys.
But, Harry, I'm also veryproud of you for having.
For giving yourself permissionto do this, because I feel like you
could have said, I've donethis thing over and over again.
Can I do something else?
But I like what this is.
I watched your conversationwith AJ And I went to, like, watch
the whole thing, and, youknow, we're talking about your decision
to do this, and I really,really felt that because I understood

(50:01):
it maybe from one migrant.
You know, it's not really justmoving houses and moving your apartment.
Like, everything is changingand you're seeing the world differently
and saying, how do I fit intothis narrative?
So when you're saying you'redoing this for you, that's exactly
where Soba Sundays came from.
Like, people are always on me.
Like, oh, maybe it's time tofeature a poet.

(50:22):
You're the only person who'sbeen there for the last three years.
And I said, this is for me.
It's not that it can't besomething else later, but when it's
done being for me, I will knowthat and I will shift the cost.
I. I didn't do it because Ineeded to be popular, because there
was something that I needed totake off out of it.
There was.
I did it because I.
It felt like breathing right.

(50:43):
This was what I needed at the time.
So I'm very proud of you fortaking this on in such a special
way and having theconversations you want to have.
It's.
It's really special that youcan always tell yourself, I'm doing
this, and you do it.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I really appreciate that.
Thank you so much.
And, of course, we're going tokeep connecting.
You know, we always.
Everywhere we can connect, wewill connect for sure.

(51:07):
But, yeah, thank you all forwatching if you watched on YouTube
or if you're listening on yoursocial media, Spotify, Apple podcast,
wherever you're listening.
Really appreciate you.
Thank you.
Odecuma.