Siblings in Grief: Lessons on Loss, Love, and Healing

In this heartfelt episode, Harry is joined by his siblings, Tsema and Meyiwa, as they share their journeys through grief after losing their fathers just weeks apart. With raw honesty, they reminisce about their favorite childhood moments and the special bonds they shared with their dads, revealing how these relationships have influenced their unique ways of coping with loss.

As they discuss their experiences, they also emphasize how this tragedy has brought their family closer together, highlighting the importance of family support during tough times. Filled with genuine moments, laughter, and a few tears, this episode beautifully captures the reality that love and loss often go hand in hand while exploring themes of resilience and healing.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, my name is Harry Itie, andwelcome to Odejuma.
Odejuma recognizes the magicof storytelling.
From personal experiences tostories of adventure, from tales
of resilience to finding joyin the simple things, this story
seeks to inspire, entertain,and educate because there is power
in the stories of everydaypeople, and these stories are worth

(00:22):
telling.
Hi, folks.
How y' all doing?
Welcome to another episode of Odejuma.
And I'm here with my sisters,actually, Maywa and Shema, and we're
gonna be talking about grief.

(00:44):
It's gonna be a very dynamic conversation.
We're gonna go where the convoleads us.
But, you know, first of all,help me welcome my sisters.
Hey, y' all.
Hey.
Hi.
How are you all feeling?
Good.
Good.
I'm good.
Slightly anxious.
Navigation is always hard, soI'm anxious, but I know I'm looking

(01:05):
forward to this.
Yeah, I feel the same way.
So I was like, oh, my God.
This situation, you know, it'sjust going to be very.
I don't know what to expect,even for myself, in how we're going
to have that conversation.
So to give a little bit ofcontext to the folks who are listening,
we all have Shema and May wellhave the same dad, but I have a different

(01:25):
dad.
But we have.
We share.
We share a mom.
And last year in May, my dadpassed, and a week later, Shema also
lost your dad, too.
So we were in a.
In the.
In the space of one week, wewere both.
It was a very heavy time forour family as we were, you know,
grieving our fathers, basically.

(01:46):
But I don't want to start onthat note.
I want to start on a verylighter note.
So I want to ask y' all, whatwas growing up with your father like?
Like, what memories do youhave from that time?
Who would want to go first?
And then I would jump in.
Miwa sets me up because Iwanted that to start first.
What was growing up with mydad like?
I do know, interestingly, Ithought about it again yesterday

(02:08):
and this morning.
It had its ups and downs.
Nobody's perfect.
No parents is perfect.
But we love.
I loved him.
I think Maywa and I had aconversation about this, like, two
weeks ago when we talked aboutnavigating our relationship with
him and what he was like andhow much I miss him.
Every day, I miss him.
But growing up with him, hehad its ups and downs.
You know, sometimes we're withMommy, sometimes we're with Daddy,

(02:31):
and.
But I think what I'm moregrateful for was I had so many questions
with him.
I had questions about.
Because I felt like I alwaysgot really.
Was always very hard with himgrowing up.
You know, how many times daddywould kick me out and I'll come to
mommy and all of that.
And I think it was easy to dothe kicking out and coming to mommy
because mommy was there.
I used to think that if theywere in the same house, we wouldn't

(02:52):
have that kick out and come to mommy.
But I had a conversation withhim before he passed the year he
passed even.
And you know, we talked aboutthe resentment that he thought he
felt towards me and he wish hehad handled it differently about
my relationship with my momand my relationship with him.
And you know, he used to say Iwould celebrate my mom so much and
I wouldn't celebrate that.

(03:12):
I celebrated you.
You just didn't see it.
Or so I thought.
But I know I was also a very,very stubborn child.
Like my, my stubbornness had a Ph.D.
you know, but ultimately wehad our ups and downs.
Like lots of ups, lots of downs.
But I wouldn't, I wouldn't askfor any other father.
Sister Mims, how are you feeling?
Just like Shema said,navigating grief isn't the easiest
thing in the world, trust me.

(03:33):
But I think one thing I'mlearning more as the days go, especially
now that daddy is no more, isthat no two people have the same
experience of anybody.
You know, no two people havethe same experience of any one person.
And obviously we could be inthe same house, be raised by the.
The same person and see twodifferent people.
And the more we talk aboutdaddy now that he's gone, the more

(03:57):
we realize that we didn'texperience him the same way.
And that's okay, right?
I.
I loved my dad, you know,beyond words.
I loved him beyond words.
Growing up with him.
My father was a typicalNigerian man on one hand, but then
he was also an outlier on theother hand.
You know, raising children asa single father on his own, girls

(04:19):
for that matter.
It was, it wasn't the easiestthing, but he made it seem like it
was a walk in the park.
You know, I was talking withsomebody yesterday and a couple was
having an.
Was having issues where thewife wanted to leave.
And I'm like, yeah, so thefather can take care of the kids.
And they looked at me like, doyou think it's normal for kids to
be left with their father andthe father would take up the responsibility?

(04:42):
Wholly.
It's not normal.
And my dad did thateffortlessly, or so it seemed.
He did the best he could.
And, Ari, I don't know if youremember one time you had conversations
with your father the last timeyou saw him when you went to visit
him, and you were talkingabout how important that visit was
and those conversations wereand how you were happy you recorded

(05:04):
it and all of that, you know,while I didn't have, you know, that
level of experience with minebefore he passed.
But just like Shema said, I'mglad we.
We got to talk about so many things.
And he was apologizing for themistakes he had made.
And I kept telling him, youwere the best dad, you know, in the
world to me.
And he was like, yeah.
Are you sure?
I don't think so.
I think I.

(05:24):
I think I wasn't the best.
I think I had, you know, toomany things going on.
And I'm like, look, you didthe best you could with what you
had.
And, you know, Hope, hebelieved me when I said that because
that is exactly how I felt.
He was a super sacrificial father.
He never had any friends,like, because he would never.
He would always think about,where will I keep my kids?

(05:45):
He's not going to visitanybody because my father was paranoid
about his girls.
He was super paranoid abouthis girls and protecting his girls.
So you would never see himgoing to visit friends with his girls
or sending us for sleepoversor, you know, leaving us with other
people.
It wasn't something he wascomfortable doing because he could
only trust himself with his girls.

(06:07):
He made so many sacrifices.
So many sacrifices.
It wasn't the best.
It was.
He had his flaws, you know, hewasn't perfect.
Well, he was the best to me,but he wasn't perfect.
And I'm grateful for him beingmy dad because he has set a standard
that I know is achievable.
So when people make excusesfor why they can't do this or that,

(06:29):
I'm looking at them likesomebody has done it before, you
know, so it's possible.
It's just that you are notwilling to.
To put in the work and makethe sacrifice necessary for that
to happen.
So I'm super grateful forgrowing up with him.
He has shaped me.
Everything I am today,everything I am, every.
The way I think, the way Italk, the way I, you know, my outlook,

(06:51):
my perspective was shaped bymy father.
So, yeah.
And obviously genetically as well.
So, yeah, I'm super great.
I feel like I kind of, like,resonate with what, you know, y'
all have said with, like, youknow, our dad, you know, you know,
our parents are not perfect.
You Know, like, you know, andthey're figuring it out as we go
along and just the ability tohave a little bit of grace for, you

(07:15):
know, for.
For our parents.
Right.
Even with my dad just thinkingabout the fact that, you know, and
I was.
When I was working on my.
On the first episode of thispodcast, I was just thinking about
how, like, you know, my dad isthe reason why I loved to read when
I was younger.
Like, he didn't really domuch, but he made sure I was reading.
You know, he made sure I was,you know, all the.

(07:36):
All the cool books, the Muppetkids, you know, sign up for a book
club.
He really, you know, he.
He exposed me basically to alevel of literature.
And I'm.
I would forever be gratefulfor that experience.
And also, like, in thismoment, I want to just like, give
kudos to, like, mommy for, youknow, I feel like a lot of people,

(07:57):
you know, women in hersituation will probably, like, talk
about, you know, the partnerthat he didn't work out with, like,
oh, you're, you know, good fornothing dad, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
But, you know, mommy never did that.
So I just want to just honorthat, that, you know, I'm really
grateful that she was.
She did not, no matter whatwas happening, we didn't have an

(08:17):
idea until we were older that,okay, this was the reality of the
situation.
It was just to me, my dadlived in Surul area, my mom lived
in Ibtmeta.
You know, that was it.
It wasn't like, oh, I wasstruggling, oh, from a broken home.
I'm not saying that peopledon't have their struggles who are
in like, those type of homes,but I don't think that that's how
we were raised.
We were just raised that, youknow, our parents are lived in separate

(08:40):
places and, you know, theyloved us in their own way.
Absolutely.
We have a expansive family andwe are all family regardless.
So just want to, you know,hold that peace.
Yeah.
So, Ari, I think.
I think for me, I think it'sreally worth noting just what you've
said, especially because forsomehow I don't know how our parents

(09:02):
did it, but they made it workwith our blended family.
It's not normal.
I know it's not normal the waywe blended nicely.
All sides of the family justgetting along.
Well, sisters are sisters,brothers are brothers.
Everybody's just chilling, youknow, just like you said, blissfully
unaware of whatever, if therewere any animosities going on in

(09:25):
the background, you know, andjust like you said, shout out to
our parents all of them formaking it work.
I would come to your dad'splace for holidays.
You would come to ours for holidays.
You would be at Mommy's.
You know, everything was just,you know, Nicely done.
Nicely done.
Yeah.
I used to love going to ikui.
I was like, oh, I'm gonna.

(09:46):
I'm gonna.
For all the gadgets and stuff.
Your dad had so many computersand gadgets and stuff, and the neighbors
and the swing at J.
Martins, you know?
Yes, yes.
But was the cool place.
Let's not even deny y' allwere living in the.

(10:07):
You living in Eoyu was likewhere the creme de la creme used
to live.
So, hey, shout out to that.
I want to bring it up, though,a little bit closer to now.
It's been a year when thisepisode is going to be released.
It will be a year since ourparents have passed.
Both of our dads have passed.
I want you all to take me back to.

(10:29):
And I know it can be hard to relieve.
What you remember about thattime, about hearing the news and
how.
How was that experience likefor you?
Me?
Why you first this time around?
Okay, so I'll start by sayingmy dad had a dark sense of humor
in that.
He always used to joke aboutdeath a lot.

(10:51):
You know, my dad would saystuff like, oh, when I die, make
sure you take the TV in theparlor, the TV in the.
In my room upstairs, or Masan,take the one downstairs.
You know, my dad always usedto joke about it, yeah, I'm dying,
I'm dying, I'm sicko.
That was his idea of humor.
My dad had a very dark senseof humor.
So I kind of felt like.
I always felt like I was ready.

(11:12):
You know, when he dies, he has already.
We joke about it was death.
Death is something that must happen.
You know, I always used tothink that I was strong enough for
death when it comes.
But on the other hand, I alsofelt like my dad was larger than
life.
I tell people all the time,and it's not a cliche for me.
I never imagined a time wheremy dad could die literally.

(11:35):
I know it was naive of me, butI just never conceived of a world
without him.
I don't know if I'm.
If I'm making any sense right now.
So when.
When I first got the call thathe was sick, I took in, oh, yeah,
he's sick.
He'll be fine.
He's gone through this before.
He's been sick before.
It's my dad.
He's strong.
He'll be fine.
And when the Call finally camesecond saying that Daddy had died.

(11:59):
I remember I told my sisterMass, and I said, it's impossible.
Daddy can't have died.
You know, it's not possible.
She said, yes, I don't believeit either.
Let's just keep waiting andpraying and hoping and.
Honest to God, I.
I didn't want to take any calls.
I think that was my version of denial.
I couldn't take any calls.

(12:19):
I didn't want to talk toanybody because I didn't want anybody
telling me that my truth wasnot real.
You know, My truth was that mydad was still alive.
He couldn't be dead.
It wasn't time.
I wasn't ready, you know, forall whatever reason.
So when I.
When I.
When I finally realized thatit was true, somehow I was sure.

(12:41):
And I kept screaming his name.
I kept screaming his name.
My dad have.
My dad and I have theweirdest, most beautiful relationship
or had.
So I still find it hard torefer to him.
In the past.
Daddy and I had the weirdestform of relationship.
I was stubborn.
He was stubborn as well.
But we had, like, a mutualrespect for each other and our stubbornness.
So I kind of felt like if heheard me calling his name, he would

(13:05):
respond.
He couldn't but respond to mycalling his name.
So I kept screaming his name.
I kept screaming all versionsof his name and telling him to just
wake up.
And I remember the next thingI wanted to do was see him.
I just want to see him.
Okay, fine.
If he wasn't responding to mycalls, he would respond to my touch.

(13:26):
It would respond to feeling me.
He needed to see me to knowthat, you know.
Okay, stop this joke.
You have gone too far with this.
Stop.
Wake up.
It's time to wake up.
You know, I think that was theonly thing that was going on in my
head.
But when it finally dawned onme that my dad was really dead, I
remember I called my bestfriend and I asked.

(13:49):
I said, tell me what to do.
I don't know how to do this.
I don't know what to do.
Tell me what to do, because I.
What am I supposed to do?
You know?
That's what I kept asking.
What am I supposed to do with this?
I didn't know what to do, youknow, but I think I just needed to
see him.
I needed to see him.
And I felt like the longer ittook for me to see him, the further

(14:11):
it would go away from me.
And for a long time, I think Iheld that guilt that I didn't get
to him.
Soon Enough.
And that's why he never wokeup, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah, it's okay.

(14:32):
I'm fine.
I'm fine.
Over to you.
Thank you for.
This is the first time I'm hearing.
May was Maywa's experience theday daddy died.
Even Harry, I don't thinkwe've actually talked about how you
felt the day you heard.
Of course we checked in, wehad conversations, but I've never
really like.

(14:52):
So that question you ask isquite profound.
For me it was.
It was an ex.
It was an interestingexperience because I'd gone to America.
I was in America for a programand I sent daddy a text saying that
when I come back, I'll see you.
I have a meeting in Benin.
I'll see you then.
I'll come to you.
And he said, sure, I'll seeyou on Monday.

(15:13):
I was supposed to be there on Monday.
Like I was supposed to bethere the next week.
And daddy had done something interesting.
He has sent us a picture ofhimself on the hospital bed.
On a bed in his room with an iv.
And I spoke to him on the phone.
I was like, daddy, what'sgoing on?
Why do you have iv?
And he says, mom dying.
Mom, there's a way he saysthese things.
And he jokes like Mera said.
I was like, daddy, you're notdying now.
You know, I'll see you.

(15:34):
But he had IV and so that was scary.
But his voice was still very strong.
Up until the very end.
His voice was strong.
Like it didn't sound weak.
Not one second did I hear him frill.
And I spoke to him up untilthe day before he died.
And his voice was strong.
And so I remember calling him.
I was about to board a flightfrom Boston to Philly.

(15:55):
And I remember it was a onehour flight and I had called to check
in.
Because I did that spacebetween that one hour before the
flight, I knew I was going tobe in communicators.
I'm going to be sure it was okay.
And the day before they hadsaid it was.
He had gone into a coma.
But they brought him out andit's fine now.
So I remember sitting downthere and they said they think they
found an infection in his lungs.
It might be pneumonia.
She might be praying.
Be praying.

(16:15):
I called my sister on my son.
I called mommy, I said, mommy,we pray.
Mommy said, ah, we're talkingabout our MFM convention.
I said, mommy, that convention.
We are going to pray.
My dad is sick.
You can't lose two ex husbandsin a short time.
Go and pray, Mommy.
Go and pray.
Of course, my dad.
Your dad had passed.
Mommy said, we are praying.
We are praying.
I was praying throughout.
Like, just ahead, I wassinging a song.
I was praying.
But I remember being in the aircraft.

(16:37):
And while I was praying, I sawa sunset.
It's on one of my phones as myWhatsApp story.
And I saw a sunset, abeautiful, beautiful sunset.
And that sunset in my headsaid, daddy will be fine.
And when I heard that Daddywill be fine.
For me, that Daddy will befine meant that.
That he was going to come outof it like, he has been through worse
things.
He had surgery.
He had.
Like, he has been throughworse things.
This is nothing.

(16:57):
That it will be fine.
That's what the voice in myhead said.
We just immediately landed,called Uber is our brother, you know,
of course you know.
I'm saying it for.
For your listeners.
And Buber called and Bubbasaid, daddy is gone.
I was sitting in the aircraft.
I was by the window.
I said, that's what you meanby that?
He's gone.
Daddy can't be gone.
What are you talking about?
That is gone.
He said, daddy is gone.
I said, don't play with melike that.

(17:19):
I just spoke with them.
Daddy is.
No, you don't have accurate information.
Go and check.
Daddy is not gone.
Like, go and check.
Call them.
I just.
It was an hour ago.
They said it was distant, soDaddy just died.
My legs couldn't carry me.
I didn't want to come out ofthe aircraft.
I was frantic.
There was a pain in my chestthat I just wanted to grab my heart

(17:39):
out and throw it away becauseI couldn't manage the pain in my
chest.
Unlike me one masan I didn'thave that experience of.
I don't want to believe ityet, to be honest, I didn't have
the experience of once, like,yeah, from them.
I don't want to believebecause I called on myself.
Is this a joke?
Because I was just away forone hour and she said, daddy is gone.
Prior to that, sent a messageto my friends in a WhatsApp group.

(18:01):
Say, pray for me, my dad is sick.
And I normally don't say, prayfor me, my dad is sick.
This first time I'm saying,pray for me, my dad is sick.
And so they worried.
What do I pray for me.
Your dad is sick.
And I come back and I'm going crazy.
I'm literally going crazy atthe airport.
Is a country I've never beento before.
I've not been to this city.
I just came here For Philly.
I've never been there.
I came here for a workshop.
I came here for a training.

(18:21):
And I'm at the airport.
Thought I could sort myselfout, Harry.
I couldn't carry myself.
My legs couldn't carry me.
I kept falling down as I was going.
I kept falling down, justtrying to get baggage claim.
I couldn't read my eyes whereI was screaming.
And I remember sitting down.
I had to find somewhere to sit.
And I was frantic.
I couldn't breathe.
I couldn't breathe.
And I said, my dad is gone.

(18:41):
My dad is gone.
My dad is gone.
My dad.
You guys are joking.
My dad is gone.
And I remember security at apoint saw someone crying and going
frantic.
And because I just kepthitting my chest, I kept hitting
my chest.
And they asked me like, what'sgoing on?
Are you okay?
I said, my dad is gone.
My dad is gone.
My dad is gone.
I said, can I get you something?
Like a cup of water or something?
I said, can you give me backmy daddy?

(19:01):
Now I think about being nice,but I don't know if I came across
as rude, but that's how I felt.
And I remember calling myfriends when I sent them in the text
message, my friends, ofcourse, it was nighttime in Philadelphia,
which meant that it was 2am,3am in Nigeria.
But fortunately, two of myfriends were online and they called
me.
And you know what worried methe most, Harry?
I was so afraid that Daddywasn't proud of me.

(19:22):
Because Daddy and I had foughtso much.
Like, we had a very rocky relationship.
But at the same time, what I'mmost appreciative of him for was
when my marriage fell apart,Daddy stood by me like nobody else
could.
Daddy would.
They would check in on me.
Daddy will say, shema, are you okay?
Shema.
Consolidate.
Consolidate.
Don't worry about me.
Consolidate.
Daddy would constantly,constantly checking on me to make

(19:44):
sure that I was fine.
Daddy not one day told me thatI was a fool for leaving my marriage.
He told me, yes, when I toldyou, my mouth was smiling.
You know how he talks.
But he will come back and hewould love me hard the way he knew
how to love, you know?
Always made sure I was fine.
Always made sure I was fine.
Always made sure I was fine.
And I felt like I let him downwith my marriage falling apart.

(20:07):
I felt I let him down witheverything in my life always being
so roller coaster, you know?
And I remember calling myfriends and asking them and saying
that my father will be ashamedof me.
He would be so ashamed of me.
I feel like I let him down.
I feel like I let him down.
I feel like I let him down.
Then he said to me that, no,Hillary will be proud of you.

(20:27):
Look at you.
You're in Philly doing asocial impact program in Upenn, which
happened to be an Ivy League school.
And I remember sending him the text.
I was going to Upenn, andDaddy said, I'm proud of you.
But I didn't remember it atthat time.
I remember when I got intoOxford and I sent him it and said,
I got into Oxford.
He said, I'm proud of you.
But I didn't remember that time.
All I could remember was thedisgrace I caused him with my marriage
falling apart.

(20:48):
And I felt like every time Iwas the child who struggled, I was
a child who he always worried about.
Or so I felt, you know?
And I just said, daddy, justhang in there for me.
I'm coming, I'm coming, I'mcoming, Daddy, I'm back on Monday.
I need you back on Monday.
I think he died on a Tuesday.
I'm like, I'm back to Nigeriaon Monday, Daddy.

(21:08):
All I need you to do, justhang in there for me.
Hang in there for me, you know?
But I knew that he was someonewho wouldn't want to be a burden
to anybody.
The vast sickness he saidfelt, and he said it before he died.
I would rather die than to bea burden to my family.
But I think that's thequestion I always ask myself till
now, if I made him proud or ifI made him ashamed.

(21:30):
I have WhatsApp messages wherehe told me he was proud of me because
of my academic achievementsand everything else.
But I think that other thanthat, like, what have I done?
You know, it's fine.
So much for us, you know, likeme once said, he had no life.
Me and him would have that conversation.
He'd be like, ah, I didn'tknow how to bathe girls.
I figured out bathing girls.
It was hard to be bathinggirls, especially as you guys were
growing up, you know, Daddywas so protective of us, in hindsight.

(21:54):
And I remember telling Mimithen that I'm so sure he never remarried
because he didn't want anybodyto treat us poorly.
And Mewa was such a spoiled child.
I dare say she knew her daddyloved her.
Miwa was that child.
I would always say how shefelt it.
And you know, that he wasalways so protective of her and that
I felt not in a bad way, butin a way that Daddy just didn't want

(22:14):
anybody that would Stress hiskids because he knew us.
He knew our quirks, he knewour perks.
He knew that if Maywa is like.
This, this is Maywa.
It doesn't mean that Maywa issomething else.
This is just how my daughter is.
Other people might not get it.
And so he was like, I didn'twant any stepmother.
And he said it to me, I.
Don'T want any stepmothertreating you guys so poorly.
I didn't want any step on that.
I would treat you people badly.
And I won't be there and youguys won't tell me because I know

(22:35):
you people.
And so, you know, just tothink about the fact that that man
was single for so long andnever remarried until when we're
all grown and out.
Of the house speaks to the kind.
Of hearts that he had.
So even if we had a rockyrelationship, like, it was just so
easy to love him, you know?
And I will say this, though,that for me, it was the struggle

(22:56):
for validation for so longfrom him that made me, you know,
make some foolish decisions atthe same time.
And I realized that even posthumors, I still struggle for his
validation.
I'm learning to let that gobecause that has made me a people
pleaser, so to speak.
But I'm hoping that he justsees me from heaven and is.
I really hope that he's proudof me, you know, because I sacrificed

(23:19):
so much for me and I wouldn'twant to be that child that made him
ashamed, even up until death.
Yeah.
Shama out.
I just want to hold you inthis moment when I can't be with
you, like, in person, but,like, just hold you in this moment
that, you know, he was proudof you and he named that before he
passed multiple times that hewas proud of you and your divorce

(23:41):
was hard for, you know, Idon't know how much you want to share,
but, like, we know yourdivorce was hard, but he was there
with you through that journey,through that process, and he stood
by you and he loved youthrough it.
Yeah.
And he loved your children also.

(24:01):
That is something you can holdon to, you know, and hindsight is,
you know, I'm sure he also,you know, had some regret with how
things went, and he tried tomake up for it.
That's why he stood by you,and that's why he was sure to tell
you that he was proud of you.
So I'm holding you in this moment.
Thank you, Hart.
You know, I just reallyappreciate y' all for being open

(24:23):
and for sharing how you felt before.
I, like, I know I Know, but Iwant to also name that I did feel
some type of way because Ifelt a little bit of guilt because
I remember when you called me,Mimi, to tell me about your dad's
death.
I did not know he had died.
I hadn't gotten the text from.

(24:45):
I hadn't got any text or anything.
You know, I was like, yeah,I'll find out what's up.
Like, I was very like, youknow, I didn't know what was going
on.
It took me like a second to register.
And I was like, you're like,he's gone.
I was like, who's gone?
You know what I'm saying?
Like, it did not take.
That was how I heard for thefirst time.
I didn't hear from Mommy,hadn't reached out to me.
So, yeah, I was like, oh, damn.

(25:05):
I felt like I was not, youknow, it didn't really.
I was not as ready to receiveit when.
When you shared it.
So there's a lot of guilt inthat, in that regard also.
I was like, damn.
I.
I picked up the phone.
I was, you know, happy, go lucky.
Even though I was trying to behappy, go lucky.
Because, you know, I had justlost my dad a week before and had

(25:26):
called you first also at the time.
Because this is very interesting.
His death was very interesting.
He had been sick for a while,off and on, in and out of the hospital.
And so I think a part of mekind of knew, you know, was like,
okay, I feel like this is getting.
This is serious, you know, AndI was talking with Auntie A.B.

(25:48):
quite often about, you know,what was happening and the experience
and everything.
And I remember I was in D.C.
that weekend, so I went to seea play, you know, I mean, I love
me a play.
And the name of the play waswhere the Mountain Missed the Sea.
And in the play, thecharacter, the main character, it's
a.
It's a.
It's about a Haitian migrantsand his first generation child.

(26:14):
And so they were the maincharacters of the story, talking
about their lives from theirpoint of view.
And so it was the Haitianmigrants, the dad had moved here,
had his son, but he had beenestranged, and they were estranged.
I think the guy, the fatherkind of figured out, oh, I make exchange
for my son because my son is gay.

(26:35):
So I kind of have an idea whyhe doesn't want to.
He doesn't come around anymore.
He doesn't talk to me quite often.
And I miss him.
You know what I'm saying?
And then the son had heard thenews that his father had passed.
And so his father was.
He was reacting to the news.
It was a very, like.
I don't know what to call thatkind of genre.
The story was the father hadpassed, basically, and they were

(26:57):
just.
He was dealing with the grief,right, of losing his father and not
being able to talk to hisfather about his experiences and
what he had gone through.
And then I think the fatherwas also just talking about maybe
from the other side orsomething, his experience on how
he loved his son, regardless,and how he wishes that they had a
much more healthy, betterrelationship and that he was going

(27:20):
to love his son regardless ofwhatever tensions that they had between
them.
So that's what I was watching.
And it was a very moving play.
It was very deep.
There was a lot of music, somemusic in the play, very.
And I was just.
I was crying for most of theplay because it was very touching,
and I felt like I wasconnecting to the play.

(27:40):
And I was thinking about mydad throughout as the play was going
on.
I was thinking about my dad,thinking about him, thinking about
him, you know?
But I just.
I felt.
I don't know.
I don't want to say.
I feel.
I don't want to sound maybemystical or I don't want to sound,
you know, like.
I don't want to sound.
Say it, you know, But I feltlike my father was there, you know

(28:01):
what I'm saying?
I felt like I was reacting towhat I was watching.
I was feeling emotional.
I was connecting to the.
To the story.
But it also felt like he washolding me and letting me know that,
okay, it's okay to feel your feelings.
You know, how you are watchingsomething and someone is, like, tapping
you ever so slightly.
That's how I felt.
But I didn't really think toomuch of it because, you know, I'm

(28:22):
just watching a play.
The play is good.
The play is done.
No intermission.
I think it was like an hour,30 minutes.
The play was wrapped up.
I come out and Auntie A.B.
calls me that my dad had died.
And it was.
I was like, I don't understand.
I know Christians like to feellike, you know, they say, oh, if
your parent dies, they'regone, you know, and nothing, you

(28:44):
know, they're gone.
But that's not how we felt inthat moment.
It felt like, you know, I wasconsoled by him in that moment.
And that was my experience.
And even though I.
I cried, it hit me harder thanI thought it was gonna hit me.
I was really sad.

(29:05):
I spoke to you.
I spoke to everyone called allmy family members, you know, but,
yeah, I feel like a part of meis kind of happy that I was.
I was having that experiencewhen he passed and that, you know,
I feel like he came to find mewhen he left.
It's almost serendipitous,isn't it?
Like, you're sitting down,watching that play in that moment,

(29:28):
a child trying to navigate hisrelationship with his father, you
know, and here you are in that moment.
There's just a comfort andoverwhelming comfort that tells you
everything will be fine.
Yeah, it's the mysteries of life.
And I know I'm just like, he was.
He was there, like.
And I think that that kind ofhelped me.
Even the times when it washard to, like, deal with the grief.

(29:50):
I think that that knowing was that.
I think that my dad was withme after he passed because I was
watching that play.
I was emotional, and he washolding me with care throughout that
process.
Yeah, I'm very curious about,like, the lessons from grief.
I feel like it's been a year.

(30:11):
A lot has happened in this year.
And even before the lessons ofgrief, like, you know, how has grief
changed you as a person andyour relationships and how you show
up in the world?
How has grief changed?
I think that'll be a goodplace to start.
Think.
I think about this questionevery single day.
And I realized that griefchanges you completely.

(30:34):
I never prepared for it.
You know, like I always say,no, nothing can prepare you for grief.
Nobody could have told me whatI would feel.
You know, nobody can explainto you how your grief will feel.
Like, it can't be explained byany book, anything.
I know.
I remember that after my daddied, the one thing that kept resounding
in my head was, nothingmatters anymore.
Nothing matters anymore.

(30:55):
Nothing matters anymore.
And I think that has been myapproach to life since then.
Nothing is as important.
Nothing matters as much.
No one matters as much.
Because you can wake up and begone tomorrow.
It can be gone tomorrow.
And at the end of the day,nothing really, really matters.
I don't know if it's a goodthing or a bad thing.
I don't really care so much ifit's a good thing or a bad thing.

(31:18):
As much as this is my newphilosophy or this is how I.
I don't know.
This is how I approach life now.
Nothing matters as much.
It is what it is.
Nothing matters as much.
You can die and life will go on.
You can hold everything tightto your chest, be holding it tight
to your chest, but life willgo on.
You know, once it Nothingmatters as much, you know, Nothing

(31:40):
matters as much, and I knowone less.
Another lesson grief hastaught me is you will lose people.
Grief would take people fromyou and not just the person that
has died.
There are relationships thatwill die with that person.
There are things that will gowith that person.
There are feelings you willnever feel, and they will go with
that person.
I keep saying nothing couldhave prepared me for this.

(32:02):
Nothing.
I can't explain it to anybody.
And it's okay if they don't understand.
I'm not trying to explain myfeelings to you for you to validate.
I mean, nothing matters.
So it doesn't even.
It doesn't matter how you feel.
I'm taking.
Some people were upset with me as.
As to how I handled my griefwith my dad, because I was.
Typically, when I'm in a badplace, I like to hunker down and

(32:25):
deal with it in my way andthen come up for air when I need
air.
I don't.
I'm not the kind of personthat I like people to hold my hand
through.
When I go through stuff, Ilike to feel my feelings, you know,
and once I figure it out, Ican come up for it and share with
you if I feel the need to.
And I did that as well whenDaddy died.

(32:45):
Like I said the first day, Ididn't want to talk to anybody.
Don't call me.
I don't want to talk.
I didn't even want to see my phone.
I had to call my officebecause I needed to.
You know, I had meetings that prepped.
I had things I needed to dothat I needed to tell my boss.
I'm not available for nowuntil further notice.
And thankfully, my boss wassuper understanding.

(33:05):
She said, may, well, go and dowhat you have to do, you know, she
didn't ask me what happened,how did he die?
Because I couldn't even havethat conversation.
She just said, it's okay.
Do what you need to do.
And I didn't want to talk to anybody.
And since then, obviously,relationships have gone.
I've lost people since I lostmy dad.
And it's been hard.

(33:26):
I'm not gonna lie.
But I survived the loss of my dad.
Now I know I can surviveanything because, I mean, there was
a new strength I got from that.
I survived the loss of my dad.
Nothing matters as much.
Nothing can kill me.
Nothing can break me anymore.
As far as I'm concerned,nobody living can break me.
Nothing being taken away fromme right now can break me anymore.

(33:50):
So while it was a bad thing,you Know that daddy died.
It was also a good thingbecause it gave me a strength I didn't
know I had.
It also gave me a newperspective to life.
Right now, nothing matters.
I'm fine.
I'll be fine.
No matter what, I'll be fine.
And that's how I see it.
That's a word right there.
Any thoughts?

(34:10):
So what had helped me sincedaddy passed was me writing.
I tried to write.
And I take time writing because.
Because I share my heart a lot.
In my blogs, I have a medium post.
I have a medium page where I write.
And it's often I share my heart.
I really share pieces of myheart and like, I go into the deepest
parts of myself and I share itfor the world.
So if you check out my medium,you will know things about me that

(34:33):
I wouldn't probably say topeople that.
Which is why I'm fine withhaving like 50 followers on Medium.
Barely even read it.
And I started this seriescalled Navigating Grief.
I've done two articles onnavigating if I'm going to write
the third one very soon,because a good old dear friend of
mine, who I consider hissister lost her son a week ago.

(34:55):
And hearing that Josh died, hedid the same thing to my heart that
he did with Daddy.
Feeling of, I just need myheart out of my chest because it
hurts so much.
But like me, wah, I lost friends.
I lost.
I lost friends, I lost family.
I lost people.
But I.
I didn't live thinking nothingmatters as much.
I left thinking everythingmatters more now.

(35:15):
And so I'm the one who wouldgrab a camera and take pictures and
do stupid videos of even myfriend's children scampering about
the house.
Of even them just saying,okay, okay, you know, I see Zana
and I want to capture everymoment I can with Zana on camera.
And I just want to hug her andkiss her.
I see my own kids and I justwant to hug them and kiss them.
Like I.
I grab my camera all the time.

(35:37):
Like, when I went to mommy'splace, I grabbed my camera.
Mommy was locking the door.
Mommy's locking the door.
Mommy's opening the door.
I'm grabbing.
Mommy's praying, I'm grabbingmy camera, you know, because everything
matters more now to me.
I don't want to look backwishing I did something, that I didn't
do something.
I did something, you know,like the people that matter matter.
I.
I want to have pictures andvideos of the people I love so I

(35:59):
can look at them.
I can have videos of Daddyjust of his.
Just of his voice, justhearing his voice, doing stuff like
praying.
And it resonates with me.
What death did to me was.
Made me realize that likeMaywa, if you survive the death of
someone you love so dearly anddeeply, like what she said, you can
survive.
You think you can survive anything?
I don't know.
Because I saw my friend loseher son.

(36:19):
And that's another level ofdevastation that is inexplicable.
But what I realized there and then.
Cuz she said it when her son died.
She said she wishes that shewasn't too at the service of song,
that she.
I know she told him she lovedhim a lot, but she feels like she
didn't tell him she loved hima lot.
She feels like she was toobusy disciplining him that he never
got to really experience as a mom.
And I think that's just hergrief speaking.

(36:40):
I think she was an amazing andphenomenal mom and she celebrated
him a lot.
But what I got out of it andwhat I've gotten out of daddy's death,
and even with the two series Iwrote, the first one is now that
my daddy is gone.
The second one is this thingcalled Love.
Now this.
The second one called thisthing called Love came from a place.
So how painful it is to loveand how sometimes love is.
You love so much that ithurts, that love hurts you.

(37:03):
Like sometimes love hurts you.
You love so deeply hurts you.
That is why the loss of aloved one, the loss of a marriage,
the loss of a job, the loss ofeven your children growing up and
leaving you, all of that kindof loss comes with a kind of pain,
comes with a kind of griefbecause you love the person.
It's from the love.
It's the fact that Harry is sofar away and we can't hop on a plane

(37:25):
and see you.
And you.
Sometimes you experience yourdaddy's death and we couldn't be
there to hold your handthrough it.
And that's.
That's the loss of a love.
That's a grief.
That's another kind of grief.
And the loss of a love that happens.
And C.S.
lewis said something about love.
We talked about how love is sodeep and love is the essence of our
humanity.
And sometimes love hurts.
It hurts so badly and youcan't even.

(37:45):
He couldn't explain how lovehurts, but that love is the essence
of our humanity and that tonot love would be to live in the
depths of hell, whatever thatmay be.
It might be the physical hell,might be hell on earth, but not to
be able to love and be lovedis to live in that kind of hell.
And I realized that I wouldlove a thousand times, and it will

(38:05):
hurt me a thousand times, butI'll keep loving.
Because I've realized thatgrief is such a terrible thing that
I don't want anybody in mylife having doubts about how I feel
about them.
Especially because I don'tsometimes know how I feel about myself.
I understand that we are humans.
I understand that our humanitycomes to play.
But I don't question a lovethat I believe in.

(38:27):
And if I don't believe in thatlove, I walk away from the love.
Mewa gave a book with me areading that she did, Chimamanda's
Notes on Grief.
And you know what I enjoyedabout reading that book was the fact
that as she wrote it felt likeshe was writing our hearts.
Like, you know, it felt likeeverything she said was our hearts.
And so I didn't feel sounusual with the way I felt because,

(38:48):
like, me, while too peoplewere angry.
What is wrong with you?
But I knew you were close toyour dad.
I knew you loved your dad.
Because I talked about my dad.
Everybody who knew me knew my dad.
You know, I talked about that all.
The time, you know, but peoplecouldn't understand why.
Like, what's wrong with you now?
What's wrong?
Why can't you.
Why can't you?
And what do you need?
And I don't know what I needin that moment.
I really don't know.
It's not like I'm trying to be difficult.
I don't know what I need.

(39:09):
If you ask me, what do you need?
I don't know.
I don't know what I need, butI think I need you.
But at the same time, don'tcome too close, you know, I don't
know what I need.
I really.
It's inexplicable.
And I wasn't trying to be difficult.
I really wasn't.
I just didn't know what I needed.
You know, I didn't know how to be.
I.
I didn't know how people could.
Be there for me.
I don't know if you understandmy point.
When people were sending memoney, I'm like, why are you sending

(39:30):
me money?
What am I supposed to do withthis money?
Like, it.
It didn't make sense to me,you know?
And it all.
All comes down from the factthat you can't explain a pain you
are.
You can't understand a painyou have not experienced.
And that's the excuse I havemade for these people.
And if you can't, you can be empathetic.
You can have emotionalintelligence, but some people just
cannot understand a painthey've not experienced.

(39:50):
And some people say, oh, Ilost my father.
I was there.
I joined the club and everything.
I don't know your relationshipwith your father.
I don't know how you navigatedwhatever it is you navigated with
your father.
Whether your father died whenyou were 20, 19, 18, 40, 40 plus,
like me, I don't know whatyour relationship was with my daddy.
I was 42 or 43.
42.
How old was I when Daddy died?
42.

(40:10):
I was 42 when I was 42.
And it was so painful, you know?
Let me just my last word.
The day I was flying toAmerica, my friend Abiba was on.
Took me to the airport.
We're talking in the.
In the car, and I said she hadlost both her parents.
And she was talking abouteverything, like, everybody.
You know what?
I don't think I'm ready tothink about how my.
My mom and dad dying.
I'm not ready for that.
I can't process it.
It.
I'm not ready.

(40:31):
Let's not even talk about it.
I don't know how to process it.
She said.
And I was like, I can't dealwith it.
I couldn't do.
Like, I didn't want to thinkabout it.
And it was so weird how on.
That same trip was when Iheard my father died.
You can't.
You can't.
You can't.
You can't explain it toanybody, but you can.
But what I've learned.
What I've learned that throughthis is that I understand that you

(40:52):
cannot understand a pain thatyou have not experienced.
It might have been your fatherthat died, might be your mother that
died.
It might have been a child oran uncle who loved you or raised
you.
But it is not your pain.
Like, you can understand it tothe extent of how you've experienced
the own loss of your own loved one.
But to define how someone elseresponds to their pain I think is
a very unkind thing to do.

(41:14):
Wow.
I also want to add that I feel like.
I think that our family iscloser now than it was before.
And I know.
I don't know if it wasintentional or not, but I feel like.
And it's not closer in a waythat is like, oh, now we have to
be closer.
Cause it's a.
It's a.
It's a.
It's a closer in that we arecloser just because that this Is

(41:38):
something.
This is a shared experiencethat we've experienced.
For us to lose our fathers,for our mother to just even deal
with the loss of two exhusbands back to back.
I don't know what that feels like.
That would be a combo for.
It's funny how we make fun ofhow we did now.

(42:01):
You know, how we make.
Just then.
It wasn't funny then, but afew months later, we'll tease out
with it.
You know, But I feel like, youknow, that is something that has
happened.
And even.
Just like, even me and, youknow, Auntie A.B.
and our relationship, I'm justvery, like, grateful in a sense.
Grateful in a sense that ourfamily is stronger together.

(42:22):
Well, you know what I'm saying?
Because there was a.
I feel like there's a tendencyfor us as.
As we were getting older.
Well, I'm the youngest, but,like, as all of us were growing with
age, I felt like there weretimes when we felt like we were all
moving into our own, like,cocoons and creating, like, our own
sub.
You know, we still have our communities.
We have our community, our people.

(42:43):
Right.
But I feel like there has beena value in how we engage more with
each other.
And I feel like even with our mom.
Yes.
You know, there's a level ofgrace we even give mommy now.
Yeah.
That wasn't available threeyears ago, being honest.

(43:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so I'm just very thankful that.
That.
That is the.
The.
The light at the end of this.
Of the.
Of the very.
Of the very dark tunnel.
You know what I'm saying?
And I think I was talking tomy friend.
I was like, my sisters losttheir dad, and my dad and I had a
very complicated relationship.

(43:25):
And I loved him regardless ofit all.
Like I said, there were manyhighlights in our relationship, but
I feel like it was differentfor y' all.
Like, y' all yalls dad was involved.
He was there.
He was present.
He was, you know, your dad wasthere, you know, and so I did not
know how I felt like duringthat time period, it was like how

(43:51):
I.
I feel like I need to be therefor my sisters, because what I'm
feeling, you know, they arefeeling it times 10, you know what
I'm saying?
Because this is all that, youknow, it's a.
Was a huge part of their life.
And so, yeah, I'm just reallyhappy that we have that.
I think my question now is.
Can I ask question, though?

(44:12):
Sure.
So for me, I'm curious as tothe difference between the bonding
from shared experiences andtrauma bonding.
What's the difference andwhere is the advantage?
Because you have said and it.
And you're right, there's a,there's a, there's a closeness that
has, that's been born from this.
But would you call it.
And again, I'm not, I don'tknow all of this therapy speak and

(44:33):
the definitions of all ofthese things.
But is there an advantage intrauma bonding?
And what, how would you knowthe difference whether it is trauma
bonding?
I don't know what traumabonding is.
I don't think we are trauma bonded.
I don't think that, I don'tthink that's our thing.
And I, I don't know therapy speak.
So I'm not a therapist, I'mnot a clinical psychologist.
I don't think we're trauma bonded.

(44:55):
From my basic knowledge of it,I feel like we are siblings who have
experienced a certain degreeof loss and in our own way recognize
the things that I know.
Even though you said nothingreally matters and Sharma is saying
that everything matters, thereis still a similarity.

(45:17):
Like nothing really matters.
I'm just going to leave lifeas, you know, as you call.
You're like, everything matters.
I'm just going to live life asthey come, you know what I'm saying?
Experience that we areexperiencing together.
And it's because of you weknow ourselves the longest.
Yeah.
Everybody else doesn't know usas long as we know each other as

(45:40):
well.
Nobody in our lives as well,you know, not even your children.
We have, you know, you allknow me the longest.
You know, we all know becausewe grew up together.
And I feel like, and we'veexperienced this situation together.
And so it's just normal thatwe will just graduate and just hold

(46:01):
each other.
And I think that's what I waseven going to with my next question
in the sense of like how oneyear has passed, you know, we've,
we've made it to the otherside of the year.
How can we hold ourselves better?
How can we hold ourselves.
We care with love as wecontinue to move on.

(46:23):
Because this is not the, thisis not the last time I would experience
grief.
And I know that is something that.
Is scary to think about, you know.
Harrowing to say or scary to say.
But as you get older, theprobability of you experiencing grief
becomes more, you know whatI'm saying?
And you know, there is griefof, and specifically grief of death.
Right.
We will lose friends, we willlose family members, we will lose

(46:46):
loved ones, we'll losebusiness partners, you know what
I'm saying?
How can we hold Each othermore with love that we know now from
this experience.
Yeah.
How would you want.
How would you want us to holdeach other with love and care as
we move to this new iterationof our lives?
I think that's a powerful question.

(47:07):
That's.
It is.
It is.
But you mentioned something.
There's a reason why thefamily is closer now is that you
are able to give more grace.
You know, you are able to givemore grace knowing that tomorrow
is not guaranteed.
You know, somehow I know you.
You know me.
You know, somehow, after allsaid and done, we are all we have.

(47:29):
After all said and done, thetruth is people could have.
Who could have comforted youin your grief.
But just like you identified,nobody can understand our relationships
with our parents.
Like us in as much as we allhad different relationships with
our parents.
We understand that.

(47:49):
We understand that.
I can tell you that I'm upsetwith Daddy without the feeling of
judgment.
You can still, you know that Istill love him even though I.
I can tell you the things hedid wrong.
Yeah.
And.
Yeah, it won't change how, youknow, I feel.
Do you understand my point?
There are some things haveconversations with strangers about
that strangers would never understand.

(48:09):
You know, you say that to themand they're like, so why you move?
I remember one of my friendswas like, so you love your dad like
this now?
Wow.
You know, another one told me,ah, me what?
Me too.
I lost my father.
Why, why you still carrying it?
Like, why you still carryingon your head like this?
You.
At some point you need to letit go.
At some point you need to letit go.
You know, I kept replaying theWill Smith scene in my head.

(48:32):
You know that part where heslapped Chris Rock and Chris Rock,
right.
And he said, keep my wife nameout of your mouth.
That was what was going on.
You know how in a movie theyshow you what is going on in the.
In the actor's head and whatreally happens in my head, that is
what is happening.
You know, keep my father'sname out of mouth.

(48:55):
Don't, don't, don't.
But outside I'm smiling andI'm like, okay, thank you.
Thank you.
You know, you still have to.
It's okay.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So just like you said, there's a.
There's a measure of gracethat we are able to give each other
now that we probably were notable to give each other before.
There are things we can talkabout now, you know, even in the

(49:18):
midst of this grief that wecan help each other through that
we probably couldn't beforethere is shared the shared pain.
I understand why yours was sohard for you, you know.
You understand why mine washard for me.
You understand.
You understand thecomplications that are inherent in

(49:38):
our relationships with ourparents, with the family.
You know, there are things Ican complain to you about that I
can't complain to anybody else about.
So I think that's the onlyadvantage of this.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's theonly advantage of this.
The fact that this death wasable to bring the family together
in a way that nothing couldhave probably.

(50:01):
But at the same time, the lossof some people that you've been able
to deal with or I've been ableto deal with anyways because somebody
else is there, you know,helping me through, holding my hand,
you know, okay, you're gone,it's fine.
You know, God.
God will be faithful enough inmy head to Bible says he sets the
solitary in families is thefather of the father gives you the

(50:24):
comfort that you need.
And sometimes my relationshipwith God has also evolved, I must
say as well from what it was before.
You know, I'm able to have amore personal out of body experience,
if you like, because myrelationship with God now is not
captured in any books.

(50:45):
I can't explain it with anyreligious texts.
It's just a personal thingthat God and I have to navigate ourselves,
just like my relationship withmy father.
Do you understand?
So, yeah, I think one yearafter I'm learning to listen a bit
more, to live a bit more, togive a bit more grace, and sometimes

(51:07):
sit back and say, okay, maybethere's another side to this thing.
Maybe there's another perspective.
Maybe, just maybe.
Yeah, yeah, thanks for sharing that.
I just wanted to say startwith something you said about the
trauma bonding.
And I really don't know whattrauma bonding means.
Don't worry, I don't either.
Like I said, it's therapistdon't, just don't buy it.

(51:28):
But what I do know is I feellike when you say that thing about
we can talk about our fatherswithout knowing that either of us
carry like either of the threeof us carry resentment even about
whatever experiences we had of him.
And that's been quite healingfor me.
I think Maywa and I havespoken recently and realized that,
oh wow, this was your experience.
This was your experience.
And when she said extension ofgrace, I understood that very well.

(51:52):
Because understanding thatwe've all had like unique experiences,
even though growing up in thesame home has allowed us to extend
grace even to Mommy, Even to Mommy.
It's allowed us extend graceto the extent of understanding that
last.
Last.
Now we get each other, youknow, which ultimately says that
when it comes down to it, weare all we've got.
When it comes down to it, Iknow that if my house is on fire

(52:14):
and I say, maya, my house ison fire, help me protect Makayla,
Harry, help me protect Zach,then two of you share.
Nathan, I know that ultimatelyI am fine.
You know, it doesn't matter ifwe've not even seen or spoken for
three weeks, four weeks.
Not like there should be thatmuch of a distance between our conversations,
but it just reminds us thatthis pain will feel again.

(52:36):
Circumstance, everything matters.
And the fact that we'velearned to extend grace to each other,
I think we've all learned toextend more grace to one another.
And that's so important.
And I think that.
I think one year after, Idon't think I've fully processed
Daddy's passing yet.
I've been so afraid to go tohis house because it will remind
me that he's not here.
But I know there's a need togo to his house.

(52:56):
You know, there's so much Ineed to do that I think I need to
do with regards to his death.
But I freeze a lot because Iam afraid that, is this man really
gone?
You know, is he really, truly gone?
You know, sometimes I reallyhope I go to bed at night and I hear
his voice in my dream orsomething like that.
I don't know, Harry.
I don't think I've fullyprocessed his death.
I feel like one year after,I'm still.

(53:18):
It feels fresh.
It feels very fresh for me.
Like, where did one year go to?
Like a whole entire yearwithout this man's voice in my ear
saying, auntie Shema, how areyou, everybody?
Was auntie and uncle with him?
I don't know, Harry.
I don't know.
I don't know how.
I don't know what the future presents.
And you said something whichis so true.
As we get older, thepossibility for us experiencing more

(53:41):
loss increases.
I've buried friends sinceDaddy died.
Buried friends.
My friends have buriedchildren, you know, lost work.
You know, it's been so muchthat has happened to my one's point
of nothing else matters is thefact that.
Look, God is going to sort meout with food.
If my daddy went into theground and hasn't come out yet, then

(54:02):
nothing matters.
I'll be fine.
And it also shook myrelationship with God.
And I'll share this one beforeI Hand over shook my relationship
with God.
I questioned God, why didn'tyou answer our prayers?
God, you know, we're not readyfor this.
But seeing my friend lose her son.
And I asked her the day weburied him on Friday, how do you
still have a relationship with God?
Because I knew you prayed andI knew you prayed hard.

(54:22):
She prayed for 12 hours forthat boy after they pronounced him
dead.
And she said that someone whohad experienced her own kind of pain
had to reach out to her.
This was a woman who had alsoburied a 29 year old child.
And because everythingeverybody else said to her didn't
matter, you know, like I'velost my dad, I've not lost a child.
And someone who hadexperienced her own kind of pain

(54:42):
had to reach out to her.
And the person told her, youmay have lost something, but you've
not lost everything.
And she said that was what gother back on track with God.
And I sat down there with somuch humility as I listened to her
through her pain, stillmaintained a love for God Because
I was mad at God on her behalf.
I was so angry, I was so hurt.
But what I discovered in thisone year to my father's death anniversary

(55:05):
is that even when you losesomething, you've not lost everything.
And that it doesn't stop Godfrom being God.
I don't understand that fullyyet I don't understand what that
means.
Saying it doesn't stop God,God from being God, yet I don't understand
what it means in holding on torelationship with God ever so tightly
when sometimes it feels likehe lets you down and it doesn't tell
you anything to help you getthrough the process.
I help you even just help you,just let you know that this thing

(55:27):
will happen so you don't haveto arrange yourself, you know, I
don't understand it fully.
I'm not going to lie.
I don't think it's all uhuruwith me and God yet I don't know
how to get to that place oftrusting him so much again or even
praying to him so much andsaying, God, please hear my prayer.
Because I feel like he's nevergoing to answer it.
That's is how I feel.
I hope that at some point Ican find my way back to him, whatever

(55:50):
that means.
Because lost a marriage, losta father, lost jobs, lost relationships,
I've lost so many things.
Children, friends, losechildren, now I don't know, lost
friends.
I don't know how to find myway back to God if I'm honest.
So I'M hoping that maybe thisone year will help me hear God, so
to speak.

(56:10):
Now.
Sorry, I'm just processingeverything that you all have shared
and said, yeah, it's been.
It's been a.
It's been a fast year.
But, yeah, just a recommitmentand just knowing from everything
I shared that we all.
We have each other.
We can't lean on each other.
We can crack jokes at each other.

(56:31):
We can tease our.
Tease our only living parents now.
Yes.
So that part right there.
Yeah, I think that is a.
That is a good day.
I want to end this on a.
On a lighter note.
I don't want, you know, it tobe like, oh, you know, I mean, Griff
is a part of life.
But also just naming that inthe moments of grief, we find moments

(56:51):
of joy to.
I just want you.
I want you all to name whatare the.
What are your moments of joy?
What has been your moments ofjoy throughout, you know, this process?
You know, what's the thingthat, you know, has made you laugh
from the depths of yourbellies or just brings you joy in
general?
You know, like me.
Jollof Rice will always bringme joy, but I've cut it out, Indomie.

(57:18):
I'm trying to lose this weight.
You know what?
I think that bring you joy andmoments of laughter.
I think a couple of thingsbring me joy in the midst of all
of these things.
One, the way the family hasbonded since daddy died.
It's.
It's different.
I don't think we've had in allmy life, I don't think we've had

(57:41):
that level of bonding.
And I'm not just talking aboutthe small family.
I'm talking about, you know,to a large extent, cousins that Pop
C.
Was a part of their life.
I'm talking about even therelationship with Auntie A.B.
during the burial, how we'reable to talk.
Yes, I love that.
Because nothing else couldhave done that for us.
Just like you said, we had allgrown apart and grown in our own

(58:04):
ways, independent, away fromeach other.
But somehow this sharedexperience created an avenue for
us to actually sit and talklike it had never happened for a
long, long, long time.
And for me, I think that wasone of the best things.
You know, just like you said,Shema and I were not talking for
a long time until Daddy died,you know, and since that happened,

(58:27):
we are able to extend somelevel of grace to each other because
of that, you know, knowingthat, yeah, it's not that serious
anymore.
Anything can happen, you know.
Second thing that Brings me joy.
From the bottom of my belly ishearing people share their experiences
of him.
I love it when I hear who yourdad did this.

(58:48):
And your dad, or just hearingpeople share stories about him brings
me so much joy because itmakes it.
He was real.
He lived.
He touched people.
He made people happy.
It wasn't just me, you know, I.
I'm a very selfish person inthat my relationships with people

(59:09):
are my own.
My brother is my brother.
I don't care about anybody else.
My sister is my daddy is my daddy.
My mom is my mommy.
Do you understand?
I'm that selfish with.
I don't know how to explainit, but in my head, my relationship
with that person is my relationship.
I'm not.
I'm not factoring in anybody else.
So when I talk about mybrother is my brother.
Any other person can bewhatever to you, but he's my daddy.

(59:32):
And that's.
I don't know how to explain itin my head.
That's how my relationships work.
And that was my relationshipwith my dad.
But knowing that.
Okay, so you also had this experience.
We also made you laugh.
He also, you know, did thiswith you.
It makes it seem substantialfor me, and I think it brings me
so much joy.
Unlike Shema, I'm not a camera person.

(59:53):
I'm not a picture person.
I don't have a lot ofrecordings of him, you know, which
is a regret I have.
And it's not like I've doneanything to shift that regret and
make it better.
Generally, we're still waiting.
Yeah, but just.
But just seeing.
Seeing him through otherpeople's eyes, seeing the video,

(01:00:13):
seeing pictures, hearing theirexperiences with him brings me so
much joy.
So much joy.
Yeah.
There's a video of your dad dancing.
I don't know what song he wasdancing to.
That video makes me laugh.
All.
I love that video.
He loved.
God, he loved those two songs.

(01:00:36):
That video gets me every time.
Every time.
Okay, that is him.
That is him.
Yeah.
I think echoing what both ofyou have said, it is the fact that
our family came closer.
I've always.
I don't know.
I've.
I've always been big on family anyway.
But I appreciate how muchcloser we are now.

(01:00:58):
I really do appreciate howmuch closer the families, like Mayor
said, the Nick, our small unitand the bigger unit, you know, I
appreciate how much closer weare now.
I appreciate that to sound abit selfish.
I appreciate that I have youguys in ways that I have you guys.
And the fact that I can reachout to.
Mayor, please, can you Help medo something with Nathan, which I

(01:01:19):
couldn't do for five years orfour years.
I don't know, since 2021 untilDaddy died in 2023.
That's three years, you know,I couldn't.
2024.
2024, rather.
Thank you.
And I couldn't have such along time.
And I always tell my friends,I miss my sister.
I miss my sister.
I really miss my sister.
It's sad that Daddy had todie, but I'm grateful that it's really

(01:01:43):
brought us to this place ofneeding each other and leaning on
each other and depending oneach other and seeing value in each
other.
I think a lot of times we takethe people closest to us for granted.
And I'm also guilty of that,that she's there now, she's not going
anywhere.
And I always say that thing Itell my friends when me and my siblings
grow, we always find our wayback to each other.
We are siblings.
But I think it's also aselfish thing to say because it means

(01:02:03):
that I will most likely takethem for granted more than I will
do outsiders.
As I'm.
As I'm saying this now, I'mjust coming to that realization as
we're having this conversationand realizing that because they are
there, it's easy to take themfor granted because siblings always
find our way back to each other.
But three years, four yearsdoesn't have to pass before we find
our way back to each other andunderstand that I would say nothing

(01:02:26):
else matters.
Nothing matters anymore.
Maybe that pride you hold onto, that anger you hold on to, really
doesn't matter anymore.
In this extent that I reallywant to have this moment with you.
I want to share my wins withyou and I want to share my sorrows
with you.
So yes, I will echo what twoof you have said in saying that the
joy is in the family.

(01:02:46):
The world brings me so much joy.
I really don't know.
I haven't really thought aboutit, if I'm honest.
I've inside a lot.
I've inside a lot lately.
And I know you see me, I'malways like so happy and you see
me on social media and I'malways posting pictures, but I've
been sad a lot, so I really,really can't think about what gives
me joy.
I wish I could say ice cream,but I've been on a diet so.

(01:03:08):
I can't eat ice cream like Iused to.
I wish I could say movies andtv, but I fall asleep when I watch
TV or when I watch movies.
Popcorn Though Popcorn.
Cinema popcorn.
Maybe I can say cinema popcorn.
And just for the record, onetime I asked Miwa for seven thousand
naira to buy me popcorn.
And Mewa refused to give meseven thousand naira to buy popcorn.
She made me go to the cinema.
I went to the cinema lookingfor popcorn.

(01:03:28):
I said, I want you to havepopcorn today.
I said, yeah, great idea.
I went to the cinema, realizedI had no money on me.
But I so badly wanted to eat popcorn.
And I called my only sister in.
The world and I said I need help.
Please buy me popcorn.
This girl refused.
I thought she was joking.
Harry.
I sat in the cinema 1 hour, 20minutes, 30 minutes, 40 minutes,
1 hour.
Mimi.
Half an hour.
Where is the money?

(01:03:48):
She didn't send me the moneyto buy the popcorn.
And she made me desire popcorn.
She really truly left.
Somebody doesn't have money togo to work the next day.
She's looking to eat 7,000naira popcorn.
Harry, where is the well?
Wait.
What well?
Wait, why is popcorn?
Harry?
I think.
Gary, I point.
I think there's 1000 or 2000naira popcorn.

(01:04:09):
Why you eating 7000 naira popcorn?
7000 is the big one.
The one you can eat for long.
Nigeria is wild.
It's 3005.
It's only in Abuja.
That is crazy.
Anyway, let that be on record.
It's ridiculous.

(01:04:32):
For a family.
Anyway.
The soup may not be rich.
But it will be soup.
Yeah.
So this is what brings me joy.
This is what brings me joy.
Was quite painful.
I wouldn't tell you lies.

(01:04:52):
My sister let me down.
I will do it.
And guess what?
I begged Harry.
I asked paint and 20,000 errorfor 7,000 naira popcorn.
Let it be on record.
And by the way, I also calledHarry that day.
But Harry was nowhere to be found.
In my time of need, my family.
Let me down after we had lost fathers.

(01:05:13):
Don't feel bad.
You are not feeding anaddiction, do you?
Is it the same popcorn at New Metro?
Because I know when I was backin the day in Abuja, that was where
they had a good no.
So there's this VIP cinemathat Shema likes.
It's not normal human beingcinema where people like peasants
like us go to.
She goes to VIP cinema wherethey say VIP popcorn.

(01:05:36):
She will now not buy normalhuman being size popcorn popcorn.
We buy jumbo large VVIP sizefor 7000 Naira.
It's so yummy.
It's yummy.
Me, the regular human issupposed to be feeding that addiction.
Hello.
7,000 popcorn.
7,000 for popcorn is Wild.
Wild.
It's different from microwave popcorn.

(01:05:56):
It doesn't tast like, it'sjust nice and warm.
The sugar is not very warm.
On.
The last time I bought popcornin Nigeria was maybe like 500.
It was maybe it was 1000.
I eat is 1200.
That's expensive.
No, it's.
No, that's not giving.

(01:06:17):
I don't know.
I don't know.
That used to be so good.
1200 for a big guys.
Is it cinema popcorn?
It's not cinema popcorn.
Cinema popcorn has a differentvibe to it.
It's nice and warm.

(01:06:38):
You can still taste the warmthin it.
You know, something like so crunchy.
I'm not about that.
Please send me money.
Let me eat popcorn.
I'm not about that life.
Nope.
Nope.
Well, well, you know, this has been.
This has been such a greatconversation, and I'm happy that
we're.
We're ending on a lighter note.
I want to just recommit againand say that, you know, I love you

(01:07:01):
all.
You all are my family andwe're going to hold each other forever.
Whatever life is going tobring to us in the future, we will
navigate.
We'll go through it.
Amen.
Amen.
I just really appreciate yourvulnerability for coming on and talking
about something that ishonestly a very sensitive and very
hard topic, but stillimportant to share.

(01:07:23):
Hopefully our experiences willlet folks know that they're not alone.
And if we can get through it,they can get through it, too.
So, yeah.
Thanks, y' all for coming.
Thank you for the folks.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you for making us havethis conversation.
You know, we wouldn't have hadthis conversation otherwise.

(01:07:45):
Thank you for being thecatalyst for this.
Thank you.
No problem.
No problem at all.
Making the hard conversationseem easy.
Thank you.
Thank you.
My sisters are my biggest.
Are my biggest cheerleaders,and I love them for that.
But, yeah, thank you.
Thank you for watching.
Thank you for listening.
Yes.
People.