June 23, 2025 • 46 mins
Alex Williams Discipline, Preparation, Faith, and UNFROSTED Pop Tarts?! OLAAT 16
This week we sit down with the truly multi talented instrumentalist Alex Williams! From his musical beginnings to his current track as a professor at Musicians Institute, we talk about preparing for gigs, practicing improvisation and developing the music to mind connection, and more. Alex candidly spoke on the role that faith holds in his life, which I always find fascinating to hear how belief can help guide people through strenuous times. And we learn that Alex prefers unfrosted pop tarts! Who would have thought.
Filmed and produced by Adrian VAO @STRIPEDBEATLE
produced by Dr. Deen Anbar @anbarmusic
produced by Valeria Munguia @Infinivee
recorded at HoK studios in Los Angeles, CA
special thanks to Dustin Knouse and Alex Williams
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:17):
Welcome back to One Leg at a Time, the podcast about health,
Wellness, fun, recovery, and music.
I'm Doctor Dean Anbar and I'm interviewing other musicians and
creatives about their process, their priorities, and the things
that they do to achieve their goals.
Alex Williams, it is great to see you, my friend.
Thanks. Likewise.
Yeah. Yeah, how you been?
Good, good. Yeah, yeah.
Where you coming from? I am, so I teach at Musicians
(00:42):
Institute during the day. Very cool.
Yeah. So I was just.
I just wrapped up my classes. Nice.
Yeah, I remember one time we were having a conversation about
your employment status there. So are you still adjunct or were
you trying to do full time? Oh, what?
I was Yeah. Yeah.
So MI doesn't have a tenure track, so we're all like
faculty. There's no like, professor,
(01:03):
assistant professor. Yeah.
So we all, yeah, we're all just faculty and honestly full time
there is, is like 20-5 hours. Yeah, that's what you were
saying. I I was something, there was
something kind of like interesting about.
Right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
Yeah, 20, a lot of like universities with, you know,
(01:23):
that those kinds of systems, like usually full time will be
somewhere around like 18, you know, 18 credit hours or
something like that. And you have office hours and
stuff. And so it works.
It works differently. And yeah, 25 was like a lot for
me. Like I was like, I'm trying to
play gigs. Yeah, you don't even know.
I'm trying to play gigs and. Totally.
(01:45):
You know, to wake up in the morning was like a whole thing.
So I I don't teach before 12 so I can play gigs and.
You know, that's nice, man. If you can line it up like that
so that you're not in the schoolbefore noon.
Like, yeah, I remember when I was doing my doctorate and there
was like 1 semester in particular that I had a morning
class that started at 8:00 AM. Wow, dude.
(02:07):
Brother what? Why?
The question isn't why, The question is how.
How I did it. Yeah.
And the answer is drugs. Ohh.
Well. But, you know, I mean, it was it
was it was a real challenge. And it was like an orchestration
class which, like now looking back on it, I wish that I did
(02:29):
have more presence, not even of mine, but like, literally, I was
so exhausted all the time. Yeah.
Like studying orchestration is so valuable.
It's a good thing. Yeah, it.
Is and now I'm like, at least I still have the textbook.
That's great, you know. But Samuel Adler's The Study
Orchestration. Yeah, exactly.
It was the Adler 1 and it comes with the work.
Yes, yeah, yeah. And you're like, arrange this
for 9 bassoons and like a piccolo fluid and you do it.
(02:53):
But I mean, I'm, I'm working on some original music now and I'm
pretty like I'm trying to do like I'm familiar with taking a
band into a studio, you know, But for this next one, I want to
try to do some, I'm trying to orchestrate for some strings or
like some woodwinds and maybe come up with some combinations
of instruments that I just want to try out for this that I've
(03:15):
never really done. Yeah, which is a little
terrifying because, you know, I'm kind of pushing myself out
of my comfort zone. I'm also like, I got to remember
like these ranges. Yes, yeah, you know, just like
getting the right key, centre key signatures and everything
for whatever. If you go, so you probably go
to, maybe you go to Nam, maybe you don't go to Nam.
Right, I've been to Nam. Yes, I hear that.
(03:36):
I was like, I was like. Nam, by the way, is the for the
musicians who I don't know why you'd be listening to this if
you weren't a musician, but it'sbig convention that happens
every year in Anaheim. And it's like the conglomerate
of every music industry corporation and gear
corporation. And they all, you know, they do,
they show off their their gear for the coming year.
(03:57):
Right. Yep.
And everybody trying to get sponsored at the same time.
Yeah, it's a really high pressure situation.
It's a it's a nightmare. Yes, bro.
Did you go? Are you a handgun?
I no, I mean, well, yeah, I've been, I've been maybe like 3
times. Yeah, that's enough.
But if you hang out at the Orchestral Tools booth, this is
a sample company. They have mouse pads that have
(04:18):
the orchestral ranges on them. That's all fire, yeah.
So I got a mouse pad do. You have a mouse.
That shows me, yeah, yeah, okay.See, I don't even have a mouse.
I would need, yeah. Yeah.
But to answer your other questions.
I had another question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I did full time for a little bit.
I did like 30 hours. Ohk OK, so you did it.
(04:41):
I did it and then I was like, yo, this is a lot.
Yeah. So I got I ejected hours which
is also rough because you don't you don't get benefits unless
you're doing full time. Well, that's the thing, right?
That's yeah. So that's like a whole thing.
But yeah, I'm like, it's OK. I'm just going back to like the
normal freelance thing, you know, so.
Paying your own health insuranceand just yeah, Yep.
(05:04):
Hoping for that. Hoping.
Wouldn't it be great to live in a culture where you could
actually not have to worry aboutif you die?
Yeah, where the ER doesn't cost several $1000, you know, even if
they don't do anything. Yeah.
Did they just check in? Pulse.
Yeah. Let's pulse.
Ock. Come on.
Pulse oximeter. What are they?
Yeah. There you go.
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Thank you. That's it.
Yeah. Don't accept Tylenol from the.
(05:25):
Yeah. That's or Band-Aid.
Jeez. That's crazy.
I remember when I got in my I got in a little accident on this
like fake Vespa thing that I had, I had like this knock off
Vespa when I first moved to LA OK, a fantasy and I and I did it
and I promptly crashed it. And like when I did that, an
(05:45):
ambulance came, but I was like no, don't.
But it was crazy as they didn't bill me for it.
OK, which I wonder OK, good. You know, right.
I don't know. I, I really don't know.
They couldn't. Figure out who you were.
Yeah, maybe. It was really strange.
The whole thing is such a blur, though, OK.
It was so terrifying because I was wearing a jacket.
Yeah. And like, I took my jacket off
(06:08):
and I was like, I think I'm fine.
And I, and I, I had popped a blood vessel in my arm, but what
that looks like is just this like huge protrusion.
And I, I was like, oh, wait, maybe I did break my arm.
And I'm just like in a state of shock and I can't feel it.
And the guy was like, Nah, man, you're fine.
I was like, oh, OK, cool. Good.
(06:32):
Well then you guys can get out of here.
And they did, they did. They didn't stick around.
But that was that was a pretty scary day.
That's messed up though. I don't I don't ride on two
wheels anymore. Yeah, that kind of ruined it for
me. It's, it's funny too, because I
think about like, and I've had this conversation with people
before where because I do have this, you know, higher education
(06:52):
degree in music, where the clearlike next step in the track is
to teach at a. University.
Yeah, yeah, I support it. And I go back and forth on it.
Well, The thing is. I it's not like I'm opposed to
it, but I don't know about doingit in Lai.
Got you. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Because it's such a hustle here
(07:12):
and it's just like, I don't knowif it's something that I want to
try to pursue while I'm here. I feel like it makes more sense
to go to a city that isn't so saturated for.
That I don't know. It's so how much do you like
gigs in LA? That's the question, you know,
because if you move. That's that's what you giving
up. That's what you're giving up.
Yeah, that's true. I'm going to plead the fifth on
that. Depends on my mood.
(07:34):
Depends on the day. No, I love gigging in LA.
I mean, and that's what keeps mehere, you know, that and the
sunshine, the beaches, the tacos, the palm trees, you know,
all of the above. What brought you to LA?
What brought me here? I went to the grad school for
film scoring that was still hereat Berkeley.
Okay, but Berkeley, Valencia at the master switch.
(07:56):
Berkeley, yes, yes, exactly. Yeah, cool.
Yeah yeah. Berkeley College of Music.
But they back then in 2014, 20/13/2014, they only had
master's degrees in at Berkeley,Valencia in Spain.
So that's where I went. So you went to Spain to study
film scoring at Berkeley? Yes.
Cool. Yeah.
Wait, I didn't know that. I didn't know that you were a
(08:17):
film scoring guy. Is that what you were intending
to do more of when you moved here?
Yes. Yeah, Yeah, that was it.
Yeah. Because I was playing gigs in it
in Atlanta. I moved here from Atlanta, OK.
Let's walk this back. Yeah, yeah.
North Carolina. Where?
In North Carolina, by the way. Greensboro, yeah, OK.
It's originally Greensboro North.
I I drank a lot of Cheerwine. Ohh.
Nova, North Carolina. There you go.
(08:38):
Hey, there you go. Yeah, yeah.
I went just. Cheerwine like Doctor Pepper?
Kind of. Kind of.
It's sweeter, yeah. Yeah.
It's awesome. Yeah, I used to go to Carowinds.
Carowinds, dude. Wow.
Yeah. Border.
Yeah, yeah. I was there until I was 5.
You were there to see your vibe and then your family move.
And then, yes, exactly to Charlotte.
Charlotte. Yeah, for three years.
(08:59):
Cool. And then and then we moved to
Atlanta. Got it.
So you say that you're from Atlanta?
Yeah, like if I'm not, you know,you know, when people ask you
like, you know, how are you doing?
There's like, there's like the, you know, at this moment, you
know, and then like the all the levels of whatever.
Sure, I get you. So if I'm not trying to like,
really get into it, I'll be like, I, I half the time I'll
(09:22):
actually redirect and I'll be like, Oh yeah, I moved here from
Atlanta, you know, and I won't, you know what I mean is the
truth. I'm not completely trying to
give my lineage, but. I get it.
Well, but you know, I'm curious.I'm curious about you.
And we've never really talked about that, but I have a, a
similar kind of non like when people ask me where I'm from, I
usually say Chicago because it'seasier than saying I was born in
Los Angeles, grew up in Montrealuntil I was 10, then my family
(09:45):
moved to Chicago. Like it's just, you know, it's
too much. It's a lot.
Yeah. And then people who know me
lambast me and say that I claim that I'm from a lot of the
different places and I'm like, well, what am I supposed to?
Say, yeah, I don't know. I am.
Yeah, I am. Yeah, I am.
Sorry that I've. Just yes.
Come on. Sorry, I'm, I'm just cultured.
Yeah. No, I mean, I'm so I, I
(10:05):
definitely get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then he went to Spain. Yes, Yeah.
What was that one? It's crazy.
I had studied Spanish in grade school.
I mean, I thought my Spanish waspretty good.
I didn't consider myself fluent because it's like this thing
happens right? Where like you're listening to
people and you're listening to people and eventually they start
to sound slower and you can hearit.
(10:27):
But there were people still who they talked so fast that I still
did not, you know, so I was like, I, I don't, I didn't think
I was like completely there. But yeah.
But much better. My Spanish got much better.
I mean, that'll happen, especially this, the immersion
of being in that place for a while.
Yeah. Well, yeah, that's awesome, man.
And then you've been here for eight years.
What instrument did you get started playing?
(10:48):
Yes, so because you are a multi instrumental.
Thanks. I appreciate it.
Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying that as a
compliment. No, you excel at everything I've
ever seen you teach, and that's a matter of fact.
Yes, I appreciate. I appreciate that.
Yeah. I I started playing piano and
percussion at almost the same time.
I when I was a kid, yeah. I had a neighbor who played
(11:11):
piano and I we, you know, went over their house and we were
watching him play. And I was like, yo, I want to do
that. Yeah.
So my parents got me like an upright that was in the 4th
grade. So I started doing that.
And and also in the 4th grade I started playing percussion in
the school band. OK, cool.
So that was the deal. That's nice, 4th.
Grade is young to start doing that, Yeah, yeah. 4th grade is
(11:32):
young to have the discipline to try and play a percussion
instrument in time. Yeah.
Right. Like, yeah, it's crazy.
That says a lot about you. Sure.
The kind of kid you were. Yeah.
Were you? You were not a troublemaker, I'm
assuming. Not in the most like, you know,
not like what intentional discord.
I like to talk in class, but like, OK, not like, you know
(11:55):
what I mean? Like, not like I'm trying to,
like, derail the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which would be funny too, but yeah, maybe I enjoy that more
now, yeah, but not. I was gonna ask you So like, at
what point did you start to get into like playing music to the
degree that you are now? Like, did you do something click
at some point where you just were like, no, I'm, I'm like all
(12:19):
about. This Yeah, I, when I was in
elementary school, I drew all the time.
Actually, I would draw Dragon Ball Z OK, that's my deal.
I just sat around and drew Goku and, yeah, Super Saiyans.
And eventually in high school, Ifelt like I, you know, needed to
decide a little bit. Just just a little like I, I at
(12:40):
some point I was like, well, I could just play, you know, I
could just play, yeah. Because that, you know, that's
working or that feels, you know,pretty great.
So yeah, about that point, I pivoted away from, you know,
trying to I wanted to be a comicbook artist in middle school.
That was my deal. That's that's interesting.
I I also started out like drawing was my first form of
(13:01):
self. Expression.
Yeah, yeah. And like, my parents sent me to
art camp. I was never really actually that
good at it, but I think I just like, I just loved doing it.
That's great. That's cool though.
I mean, I, I totally see those things as being like parallel,
you know, forms of self-expression because you're
literally giving a presence to avision that you have.
(13:21):
Yeah. And like expressing yourself in
that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And comic stuff specifically. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was all Japanese, like Final Fantasy, whatever favorite.
Yeah, your. Favorite or your?
Absolutely, yeah. I would draw all of it.
Mine was and still is Garfield by the way, so.
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look. OK, so it was around high
(13:41):
school. Yeah.
And then, yeah. Well, did you start gigging when
you were in high school? No, no, no, no, I was not.
No, no, no. I was not like, do you play any
shows? Like, were you just mostly just
playing that's that's? Fair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely with school.
Yeah, yeah. So no, I mean this.
Lai mean, you know, kids I find here in LA are like, they're
(14:02):
like really good in high school.Yeah, but it's not real life
here like growing up in LA It's like it's Hollywood.
Yeah, exactly. It's just like, cool.
Yeah. My kid is playing at the Whiskey
a go go, right? Yeah, they're 12, right.
Like, yeah, it's going to be great.
And yeah, usually is great. Right.
I mean, our, my high school jazz, we did not know what we
(14:23):
were doing. Like there was no, you know what
I mean? Like I had no idea, you know.
Well, but with you. Though I don't know, you know,
yeah, you could be that kid. It was just like, you know, I
had something going on. My high school had a steel drum
band and a jazz band which was awesome.
That's pretty cool for a high school to offer a steel drum
like ensemble. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. Super.
You know, he was super unique and yeah, I went to a magnet
(14:45):
school, which meant that I wouldride a bus in the morning.
Super like get a up at like 5:30, get on this bus and the
bus would wait at different schools and you know, this kind
of thing. So I would get there super early
every morning and in the morning, what like 7:30, right?
Like do any of us get up this this this early anymore?
Sometimes if I have a flight, yeah.
(15:06):
It's me too, right? Yeah.
Yeah, right. Yeah.
But I would be there super early, and that's when they
would practice. And so I'd be hearing the play
all of this stuff, and I thoughtit was awesome.
So I was like, yo, I want to do that.
That's when I started playing drum set.
I was going to ask because you keep saying percussion and they
and and very deliberately not saying drum set.
So I was wondering if those were.
(15:28):
Yeah, different. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I started playing drum
set there and then basically when at some point those guys
graduated and there was like no one left to do the stuff.
And it was just me and one of the other guys who who who
actually played drums and I knewthe beats because I had been
(15:50):
listening to them for like, I don't even know how long and
half. Trying to sleep.
Yeah. Eating brown sugar cinnamon pop
Tarts for breakfast. Definitely the best way.
Yeah, it's. Like yes.
Come on. Yeah.
Head and shoulders. Yeah, absolutely.
Strawberry close. Right, right, right.
Wild Berry. Wild Berry.
I never had wild Berry bro, is that new?
No. No, no, no, no, no.
That's the purple one. The purple.
One, maybe that's a regional offering.
(16:11):
Hi bro, LA has no taste in pop tarts, no?
Chicago, man. I never saw.
Wild Berry pop see bro but I remember yes strawberry,
blueberry, blueberry. OK, brown sugar, cinnamon and
then smores. Smores.
Those are the four. Those are cool.
Small fine, yes. Got you.
(16:34):
It's like the idea, right? You know what song?
OK, so I do. Every now and again I'll watch
Family Guy, and there's that oneFamily Guy song where he sings,
you know, do you ever put butteron a pop?
And I never have. That I've never done anything.
And I've thought about it but I've never like sunk to those
deaths of just like fat kindness.
(16:55):
That's my recent snack though. Thing has been putting butter in
dates. Really, really, really, really.
OK, OK. It's it's awesome, OK.
Yes, unfrosted brown sugar, cinnamon, by the way.
Yeah, that's my jam. Really.
Yeah. You can get rid of the icing.
And then it's like it's even more like, well, like they come.
(17:16):
You can you can buy them this way.
Yeah. Yeah.
Unfrosted strawberry, unfrosted blueberry and unfrosted brown
sugar. You prefer the unfrosted.
Yeah, yeah, because it feels, itfeels more balanced.
Yeah, it definitely is, but I feel like if you're already the
pop tart, it's. Like, give me the yeah, short
bread. Yeah, yeah.
Come on. So I have some questions written
(17:37):
down more or less on the subjects of health, Wellness,
fun, that kind of stuff. They're on 4 separate Wheel of
Fortune style wheels. OK, pick a pick a number between
1:00 and 4:00. 3/3. Yeah.
All right. So this is the third wheel and
if you want to go ahead and spinthe button and then you'll
(17:59):
you'll see a. Question.
Hit the button. Hit the button, give it a spin.
And I get a question. Yeah.
And I'm just going to be honest about when it's actually
stopped. Yeah, this is.
You're the first person I've actually given control.
That's. Awesome, yeah.
You took it with such confidence.
I was like, yeah, I guess. I mean I.
Guess you're the host now. Oh my gosh, that is better,
(18:20):
right? Because otherwise I just have to
believe you that that you didn't.
Show to you, OK, what's made youso distrust?
That's good. No, no, no, no.
That's funny though. Yeah, it's so I got.
Do you have a pre show ritual? Do you have a pre show ritual?
And I guess when I wrote this question, I'll say this.
That's because there's a lot of different kinds of shows, right?
(18:40):
Yes, yes, yes. And this could be a an answer.
Simple if you're like on a tour.Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Where like so much of your life is kind of chaotic and out of
your control. Gotcha.
Yeah, I feel like that's the time that a pre show ritual
would be or something that mightjust help to kind of get you in
the headspace of like, OK, this is now what I'm doing.
I think what I would probably dois before a gig that I got this
(19:07):
exercise from Aaron Parks actually on a like a jazz
heaven, you know, master class that he did OK, which was to
sing something and then play what you sing and then sing
something else and then play what you sing.
So you sing a little, you know, double, double BA and you play
and you just keep doing that right?
And that you're basically practicing playing what you
(19:28):
hear, you know, And it's like it's so that that connection, it
makes it really sharp, super sharp.
And like 5 minutes of that is like gold totally.
You know, but maybe I would do that like right beforehand.
And then I'd be in the zone likeI could just put you in, you
know, because then you're just, you're just doing exactly what
you, what you mean to, to play. You know what I find speaking to
(19:50):
that? No, no, because you just remind
like there's something so real about this.
If you were like, if you have the opportunity to record
something or like it's not something that has to happen
right away in the moment, but it's like it kind of just speaks
to preparation and how it plays in with playing what you hear.
Because I noticed that, like if I'm working on something that
I'm going to be playing over, yeah.
I can practice those chords for a little while and like practice
(20:13):
soloing over it or like coming up with a line or something.
Like usually what will end up happening is it's not right
away, but like maybe after a couple hours, I put some
distance between me and whateverI was practicing.
And then I'll start to kind of like let my subconscious mind
take over, start letting this stuff come in.
And then it'll be like either the next day or like later in
the day. And that's when they're like
(20:35):
really richer kind of, you know,material comes out of it
because. You start to hear lines over the
progression. Totally.
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
And I feel like it's kind of a extended version of that
practice technique, but one sucha, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Improvisation is like the same
thing, Like the mind responds toour intentions, you know, and
(20:56):
most of us when we improvise, weare trying to say, you know,
cool stuff or what we think. We're just, you know, we're just
trying to, we're trying to speak.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like the mind is like,
oh, I see that you're trying to speak over this thing.
And then it starts feeding me things to say, yeah, you know,
And then we just play what we hear.
And then at that point. Ideally.
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, right.
Yeah. Or you just wiggle your fingers
(21:18):
around and start rushing. Ah, yes, bebop.
Yes. Yeah.
But yeah, yeah. But at that point, it's like
when we take a break, the mind starts processing the song, and
then when we come back to it, wedo better because it's processed
it. Yeah, it's to me, it's the same
motor as riding music, right. You have to ask, how do we get
(21:42):
better at riding music that's soabstract, you know?
Oh it is 100% but. But the the longer we try and
write music, the more months go by.
We write better songs and we write.
You know what I mean? I do, absolutely.
Well, it's interesting too because like sometimes you can
sit there and you can beat your head against the desk, like
working on 2 bars of music and feel like, all right, I finally
(22:04):
cracked this 2 bar thing that I've been like working on and
then take that break and then come back and it's just like,
oh, I just got 40 more bars, youknow?
And it's like, I like the there's an idealistic part of me
that wants to say you don't haveto suffer in the creative
process. Sure, sure, sure.
(22:24):
I don't know how implicitly truethat is, which is to say that
like, the work is getting it out.
Yeah, you know, Right, right, right.
I mean, if you think about it, though, like both of us are
improvisers, right? So if you had wanted to, you
could have just streamed all your improvisation and that been
the song. Really.
The thing that's is slows us down is we're applying our
(22:48):
critical thinking of like, is this a good melody?
You know, and we keep iterating.Right, of course.
You know, and like, that's, you know, so like, in a way, I mean,
we could just do, you know, do it fast or something.
I think it comes down to what wethink of our writing, you know,
what we allow ourselves to thinkof our writing.
Yeah. And yeah, yeah, yeah, That's,
(23:12):
that's yeah. You know.
Do you write a lot? Yeah, yeah, Yeah, you do.
Yeah. What are you working on right
now? Right now I'm writing music for
short film. Oh.
OK, Yeah, yeah. So you're still doing some film
stuff? Absolutely.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. How much of that are you doing?
Well, you know, so at this particular point I just do gigs
when they come. OK, so you're.
Not pushing it as like you're trying to get into that as your
(23:35):
full time gig. Well, I mean, I ideally I would
like in like my own perfect world, I would do, I would play
gigs and write music and that just be that's how I make money,
you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But. It sounds really nice.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, but.
Yeah, at the, at the moment, like what I should be doing to
(23:56):
get film gigs is I should be going to film festivals and
hanging out with directors, you know, and same thing with like
video game, video game scoring like.
Yeah, that's the whole thing. Going to game developer
conferences and like talk hanging out with game
developers. It's like the reverse of like,
you know, like music gigs, right?
Like or playing, playing gigs because like we'll hang out with
(24:17):
other musicians, but if you hangout with other composers, like
they're not going to offer you agig.
Sure, sometimes they'll let you be an additional.
Well, my understanding of how a lot of that works is a lot of
the composers work under like, Idon't know what I don't know
what the name would be, but likeHans Zimmer, there's like what a
couple 100 people that are Hans Zimmer, right That like do the
different, you know, orchestrations or right is that
(24:40):
am I wrong? I have no comment.
You have no comment. I have no.
Come on. Let's break the recording.
This right. All right, all right.
Yeah. OK.
Fair enough. It's none of my business.
It's none. Of your business, but I, I can
make it some of my business. Well, then I, I'll just say
this. I have a couple of friends who
do film composition. That is their gig and they made
(25:02):
a conscious decision when they were getting started not to
pursue the, you know, that former model.
Ohh yeah. Was they?
Didn't want to get lost in someone elses machine.
There are composers that like, they have ghostwriters, right?
Yeah. There's a lot of that actually
in Hollywood. A lot of that in music, too.
Yes, yes, that's true, you know.Yeah, yeah.
(25:22):
I mean, music, we're probably better about crediting people.
I mean like. I think so, yeah, Yeah.
No, no, for sure. No.
And I hear what you're saying too.
Like there's people who wanted to avoid the route of ghost
riding. Like this is really terrible
engine in Hollywood. And I've worked for a bunch of
different composers and I've managed to avoid most of it
(25:42):
myself. But the, you know, the engine is
that people will go and they'll be an assistant for a composer.
They'll make $20.00 an hour, which is the going rate for
assistance, you know, maybe 21 an hour.
And that was pre inflation. So hopefully it's at least 25
now. And they'll work for the
composer. The composer will ask them to
(26:03):
write on stuff that they're doing.
They won't get any credit for it.
And they'll do that for years, hoping that one day the composer
will be generous enough to forgogetting any assistance from them
and give them a gig that they can't do, you know?
Yeah. I mean, that's Yep, you know,
(26:23):
Yep. Yeah, it's tough.
And the idea of not being able to do a gig really comes at
they're just, it's deciding because what they'll do is
they'll take more gigs than theycan do and they'll hire people
and have those people write music for them under their
supervision that don't get any credit.
So all it takes to fix this is for the composers to make up a
(26:47):
new position. Like when when we watch, we look
at movie credits, right? It goes down the list of the
artists, and it says lead art direction, blank.
Artist, artist, artist, artist, artist.
You know, Yeah. Yeah.
So we know, oh, when that guy's in charge, stuff is awesome,
right? Yeah.
So I think the same thing shouldhappen with music.
It should be lead music direction or lead composer,
(27:08):
composer, composer, composer. And that would fix it because
what happens is those assistantscan't leave the job even if the
composer is abusive, which also happens a lot because they don't
have anything to their name. So if they leave, they just walk
away with nothing. And they have to hold on through
abusive relationships until the composer is finally, one day is
(27:30):
like, OK, now I'm going to give you some work and I'm going to
hire another assistant because Istill need an assistant, which
is like fat chance. But I watch people do this for
like 8 years. Yeah, at some notable studios
I've. Heard longer?
Yeah, yes, yeah. So like, yeah, it's, it's
abusive, but I mean, there's just like enough of a desire for
people to take those positions on that they still are
(27:50):
available, right? Right, right.
Well, they don't know. There's enough people that don't
know that, you know what I mean?And they'll just keep signing up
and then they find out, and thenthe cycle continues.
Yeah, you know, so. But you obviously knew.
Oh so. You're I found out, yeah.
So you got out of it, which is good, right?
No film scoring does. I've heard that it's
particularly ruthless. Yeah.
(28:11):
In that sense, yeah. There's a lot of that, yeah.
Here's a here's a question for you.
Do your practice routines changebased on whatever's on your
plate? Some cats, you know, I, you
know, some, some cats, yeah. They just operate that way from
gig, gig. Yeah.
Like I've read interviews of like Brad Mehldau, right?
And he's like, well, I'll just whatever I'm going to play next,
you know, that's what he's working on.
(28:32):
And me, I'm not that cat. I, I have stuff that I want to
be able to play that I can't play right from records and
stuff I've heard of people doingand I'm always working on those
things in addition to whatever it is that you know what I mean?
I'm like. You're pretty locked in.
(28:53):
I'm very strategic. How many hours a day do you
practice? Oh, like like an hour to an hour
and a half per instrument, you know, So just jump.
Instrument. Yeah, yeah, just drums and
piano. OK.
Yeah, like, really. Just like an hour, you know,
maybe an hour and a. Half, but that's like, you know,
in addition to to your teaching and gigging load finding two to
(29:17):
three hours a day to commit to practicing.
I mean, that's yeah, that's a serious discipline.
Yes. It's really impressive.
Yeah. And in that sense, it just seems
to me like you are a much more functional and grounded no.
Stop. Being, you know, where does it
come from? That's what I want to know.
That's what this podcast is about.
Where does the discipline come from?
(29:37):
Yeah. Who are you?
Yes. Who am I?
Yeah, I Yeah. For me, everything is like a
science experiment in some sense, right?
I'm trying to figure things out.There's some cats here that I
feel like they really understandhow they get better, right?
And they just do that all the time.
And so, you know, some of the things I learned in school, I
(29:59):
don't, I avoid, like, I don't dothem anymore because they
weren't really working for me. Yeah.
So I went on this whole trip of trying to find things that
actually worked for me in practice.
And and the catch is when you'retrying to learn yourself, right?
Like you can take lessons and people tell you stuff, but the,
the true, the reality is no matter what they tell you, when
(30:20):
you go home and try it for yourself, you have to evaluate
like, is it making me better? Totally.
Or do I sound? Do I do, do I start to not sound
the way that I want to sound? Yeah.
And for me, I realized that the only way I can really write off
a practice method or on is if I'm doing it consistently.
(30:41):
That's the all, you know, 'causeotherwise then I can say, oh,
maybe I didn't sound good because I didn't practice
anything. Yeah, So I will do different
practice methods and then I will, I have to do that like,
you know, at least once every two days.
That's like my minimum, right? If I'm super busy, right?
Like just once every two days, Istill make some progress.
(31:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that way I can attribute the
result to what I've been doing. Yeah, because you have a control
factor. Control.
Yeah, Yeah, that totally makes sense.
Yeah, Yeah. And I mean, it's funny too,
because I've kind of come to thesame.
I think that this comes up more in teaching because like
sometimes they'll have students come to me and they'll be like,
I got this book or I saw this like 45 minute thing on YouTube
(31:27):
and I like, I really want to getinto it with you and I'll be
like, cool, I'm down right, right, right.
But here's the thing. We can do this book cover to
cover. Right.
Yep. If you get one thing out of this
book, though, it will be worth it, because that's how this
works. That's great.
This isn't, this isn't going to change your life.
This isn't going to completely alter the way that you play,
(31:49):
Yeah, you know, or think about music.
Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.
But like, I have this thing where it's like being a good
musician really, or just being amusician is thinking and
engaging musically. Yes, so.
All of this is to your benefit. That's great.
And don't don't think of it as anet loss because you spent a lot
of time on something that you didn't.
I think that the the result was right there.
(32:11):
It's a very non linear like you know way of of growing, but that
doesn't mean that you're not growing.
Yes, Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's very, that's very, that's
positive. That's a very positive way of
looking at that. Hey, what's the point of, you
know, I mean, I've, I've, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You've been doing it for long enough too that you start to see
it. It's just like, man.
What's interesting too is the longer that you teach, the more
(32:32):
you're able to see the growth inyour students week to week.
That's like, I mean objectively it's not huge steps.
Right, right, right. But sometimes you just like,
man, every time I see you, yeah,it's a little better.
Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. And I see it.
You, there's no way that you could see it, right?
But I see it. Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
(32:53):
Yeah. I mean, and so if you're, if I'm
trying to test additional practice methods, like
technically, whatever students decide that they want to do,
right, they become, they're moreinformation technically for me,
right? Yeah, I definitely always try
and give people things that I believe work, you know, or at
least work for me, right? And sometimes people like, oh,
(33:16):
well, I want to do it this way, you know?
And so that actually is another opportunity for me to say to see
if it's if they progress or. You'll you'll let them go for
it. You're like, you know, man, it's
your funeral. Yes, exactly.
Yeah. Like if that's, you know, that's
why you want to do it, Yeah. So and then when they come to
you six months later and they go, man, I still suck and be
like, well, I told. You exactly that's that's 100%
(33:40):
true. Like it'll be like, well, the
difference, you know, like you know, we talked about doing XY
and Z and the difference betweenthe way you want to sound and
you sounding is if you do what Ido, you know, maybe it.
Sounds like you have infinite patience then, to sit there and
let somebody talk at you. I won't, much like I've been
doing. Bro yeah I won't.
I won't drag people, but so far,you know what I mean?
(34:01):
That's my deal. I literally won't.
I'm like I. Can't see you doing it.
I really can't see you losing your temper or just being like,
hey, that's you. Know right, it's the your it's
your funeral thing, you know what I mean?
It's like, I mean, OK, all right, you know, that's how you
wanna do. I had a lesson the other week
that was like, it was, it was actually horrendous, but it was
that kind of a thing. It was.
(34:22):
Actually horrendous. Yeah, it was with one of my I
gave a peer a lesson, you know? Oh, interesting.
But a peer from, like, the composer world.
OK. And they wanted to learn more
playing stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But they had a way that they felt like they wanted to learn,
you know, and I personally just.That just wasn't my deal.
Like some teachers like to play along with their students right
(34:44):
when they practice and some people don't, you know, I don't
typically play along with my students.
I like to explain, you know, theway that I, I want to do
something, I'll demonstrate for them.
And then I have them do it, you know, and I'm always giving them
practicals. And maybe this is the difference
from one instrument to another, but I remember, like, playing
(35:07):
duo with my instructors was always like, yeah.
That's great. That's great, yeah.
And then other times, we would put on, like, a backing track.
Yes. Yeah.
And like, you know, trade choruses.
And that also was like, in that kind of environment where, like,
you know, it's a teacher. So it's not like you're trying
to cut. You're just literally, like,
(35:29):
trying to copy. Yes, of course.
Like learn, you know, through osmosis.
That way, yeah. And.
And that's fine too, you know what I mean?
Like some people like to do that, you know, she wanted that,
right? Yeah.
Yeah. But I don't typically.
I don't typically do that kind of thing.
I mean, especially like, well, I, I think there's, there's
three facts. There's the teachers that are
genuine about that. Yeah.
(35:50):
And then there's teachers that they're doing that because
they're bored, because they've been teaching seven students and
they want, they, they just desperately want to play, right.
You know, which I'm, I'm kind oflike, yeah, of course.
Right. Yeah.
And I'm kind of like, I have to judge myself like in my heart.
Like if I'm really just about the student, you know, then
like, I hope I take myself out of it, right.
(36:12):
So that's like, that's definitely a thing for me.
I really respect like there's some teachers where I feel like
the quality of my instructions, if my instructions are good
enough, I can get them to do thething without ever touching the
piano. Sure.
That's you know what I mean. Yeah.
I mean, that's a strong ideal. Right, right, right, right.
(36:32):
My main goal with students is toteach them how to extract and
apply the information that they want, which for me involves like
I to make them think about the thing I have to show them how to
fish, you know? Totally.
(36:52):
And and that's, and that's it. Like so I and I, part of it for
me is helping them realize that they can fish, you know, that
they can like transcribe or whatever.
That's a that's always been suchan important thing for me to
pass on to my students. Yes.
Yeah. In an ideal world here, I'm
teaching myself out of a job. Yeah.
Because you should be able to tofigure this stuff out.
And I want to show you how to dothat.
(37:13):
Yes. It's interesting though, because
not all your students want that.That's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And like, the course of study, to get to that point where
you're engaging with music in that kind of a way, right, is in
and of itself a challenge. Yes.
Yeah. And it's not, you know, it's a
whole other thing. Right, right.
Yeah. But so, yeah, it just, it gets
really tricky. But they, they almost just
(37:34):
demanded that I just like jam with them, you know?
Yeah. And it was just like, and I was
giving them such practical stuff, you know?
Do the kids are the kids jammingthese days?
I'm asking that seriously because I remember when I was
doing my doctor program and theyput me in charge of the Jam Club
at USC. Brother, the kids are not
(37:57):
jamming. They're not playing as much like
out out of their bedroom. That's fair.
And I think that probably you have a certain number of
students who aren't playing as much as we did maybe when we
were younger with other people, 'cause they're just working on
videos recording because they can.
Yeah. And they probably really love to
(38:19):
play and like you might be theironly chance to play with
somebody else that. Week that's fair yeah, but you
know if I hold even to my position then that's going to
force them to go find actual outof school jam opportunities yeah
and then they might actually getsome work yeah you know what I
mean they might get work and thebest thing to do I think is if
(38:43):
you're studying in the city thatyou want to live in that you
drum up work while you're in school ohh I mean.
That's that's objectively true, right?
Really in any field of study, honestly.
But yeah. Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, that's like, yeah, it's just interesting
because times are, the times arechanging.
Right, right, right. You know, absolutely.
(39:04):
And I have a lot, and the culture is changing.
Right, right, right. You know, yeah.
My first ever guitar teacher, this is when I was, like, 14.
Yeah. He would say to me he'd be like,
you know, you're not going to get famous.
Just wanna learn Stairway to Heaven thank.
You right, you know, Are you projecting?
(39:25):
Yes, Sir. Are you?
Well, he was. He, absolutely he was.
But you're like 12 like. A.
Little older than 12, but, but even still, yeah, it was just
like, what's your problem? You know?
But then I but but I also I, andI mean, this is me just being a
little dummy. But I was like, oh, I'll show
him. OK, you know, And I was like,
this is gonna make me work. That'll make you killing.
(39:47):
Yeah, that's the street. Look at Michael Jordan.
But. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Right again, I then I took it
personally. Then I took it personally.
That's it dude. I love that document.
I love seeing him in that. That documentary is fire.
Yeah, dude. Yeah, yeah.
But all that is to say is like, I think that it's good to have
those kinds of you don't want everybody in your life to be
telling you like, no, you got it, you got it, because then
(40:09):
what's gonna happen? Absolutely.
You know, you're gonna think when it when it doesn't work
out, right, right. What did I do wrong?
When the reality is like, you dohave to be able to kind of push
through it. Yeah, yeah.
The truth. Yeah, the truth is, is also
loving. Yeah, yeah.
I have a question for you beforewe get into our next little
segment here. OK, My, my question is this,
because I see you as somebody who's like your attitude.
(40:32):
I've never known you to be in anything less than a great mood.
Like, you know, whether that's true or not.
Like you present as just like sofriendly and charismatic.
You're so good at the stuff. Every time we've done a gig,
like you've always just you killit.
So like my question for you is like, what?
What do you struggle with? Like what do you consider to be
a struggle for you? I'm not actually always in a
(40:54):
good mood. See, that's so interesting for
you to say that I wear my feelings on my.
Me too. Me too, I.
Can't walk into a room if I'm not like I don't know how to do.
I don't know how to put on the the face.
I got you. Yeah, you know.
No, I think it's better not to. I mean, the reason why like I,
you know, seem like I'm in a good mood.
It's it's all Jesus like that's for me.
Like I literally like. So what does that do for you?
(41:18):
What is that? Where does that?
What does it give you to be ableto go wherever I'm at?
Yeah. Like I want to meet it at this
idealistic level. I pray, you know, I pray, right?
I pray to God. Yeah.
And my prayers are actually justme talking to God, right?
They're not any pre formulated, you know, like say this prayer
and whatever, like I'm with it, you know.
And I have found, I even learnedmore recently too.
(41:42):
Yeah. You know, I've just been walking
with God for like, you know, since I, since I was like 13.
And and I found even just withinthe last two years that if I
pray really, honestly, that God meets me in a way that doesn't
happen if I pretend that I'm not, you know, that I'm not mad
or that I wasn't disappointed, you know, because we've
(42:04):
experienced a lot of disappointment, you know, as
humans, You know what I mean? Like man, like you, you know, I
was really hoping that this would work this way.
I really, they thought that, youknow, God might make this easier
or make this work out in my lifeor whatever, right?
And sometimes it doesn't happen.And then you have to grapple
with like Dag, like why? Why did you know?
Like, because if you believe in God right, then you're working
(42:27):
with this paradigm of there's someone out there, you know who,
who loves you but doesn't stop everything from happening.
Or knows better than you. Yeah, of course.
Exactly. Absolutely.
And I think the definition like when you, you know, talking
about something like disappointment, like
disappointment is me going, I should have gotten this when
what happened wasn't that. Right, right.
(42:50):
And yes, exactly, you know, and understanding that, well, if I
can remove myself from this, like this didn't happen for, for
some reason unbeknownst to me, yes, of course.
It's interesting that religion comes up as something that that
that's in a way that I know people have gotten to that
point. For me, it wasn't that
specifically. It's the only way that I've
(43:11):
figured out a way to sort of like be comfortable.
Yeah, yeah, with the way that things.
Are right, right, Right. Because there's so much to be
disappointed about if you chooseto be.
That's fair. That's absolutely fair, you
know. Or you go like, this is where
I'm at at this point in time at this place and like.
And, and sometimes it's, it's like it's misunderstanding.
Sometimes it's delay in the thing that, you know, that we
(43:34):
hope for. Like, I believe that God is
good, you know, but sometimes helets really bad stuff happen to
us, you know? What I'm really interested in
and fascinated by is the practical application of these.
Absolutely yes, yes, you know. And so if you say to me like,
well, the short answer is the reason why I present this way
and I'm able to do so consistently is because I pray
(43:55):
you know, and This is why this, this is what has this value to
me. And.
Right, right you. You've you.
You've. Sold me, of course, Of course.
Absolutely. Yeah, right, right.
Yeah. And.
I love and I love to hear it. And honestly, like, you know,
we've been going for the only reason I'm stopping you is
because I'm like, I know. Like, no, no, no, you're gone.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I right.
(44:15):
This is this has been. It's great.
It's just great to hear it. Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for, of course, so forthcoming and sharing that.
And by no means would I have ever wanted to give you the
impression that religion wasn't something that.
You can No, of course. No, no.
I just. The whole thing is yeah, no.
But he didn't say anything. I know.
But I know you and when I asked you to come on, I was actually
kind of wondering if it was going to come up.
It's really interesting that youkind of you.
(44:37):
You must have made it a point tonot bring up religion up until.
I mean, yeah, I'd shoot the breeze, yeah.
I know you do, but it's, you know, but it's, it's just, it's
it's actually really nice for meto get it because I don't know
if we would have ever had a chance to talk about that stuff
in that way had it not been for something like this where it's
just like, yes, what's really, what's the process like?
Yeah. And that's and that's really
(44:57):
cool to hear it. Well, yeah, yeah.
And I, and I just, I just wantedto, to add to that, to, to what
I was saying, the end result of looking at it that way, where
God has planted all these good things and that sin plants all
these bad things, is that I am not looking, I, I don't, I don't
identify, you know, as someone who is all of these bad things.
(45:20):
You know what I mean? Like it's like I identify as a
son of God and like if I mess up, that's not who I am, you
know? Yeah, yeah.
You see that which is different,you know?
Yeah. And that and like, you know, God
changing who I am. That's where the good attitude,
all that stuff comes from. No, Yeah, yeah.
(45:40):
So yeah, yeah. That's, that's the deal.
That's. Man, what a beautiful thing to
hear. Yeah.
Thank you. Yeah, man.
But thank you. Thank you so much for coming on.
Of course there's. Just one more thing you got to
do, you got to look into that camera and you have to say I put
my. Pants on one leg.
I put my pants on one leg. I got a time.
You're already here first, folks.
Thanks for tuning in and we willsee you next week.
(46:28):
One leg top. One leg top.
You put your pants on one leg.
Welcome back to One Leg at a Time, the podcast about health,
Wellness, fun, recovery, and music.
I'm Doctor Dean Anbar and I'm interviewing other musicians and
creatives about their process, their priorities, and the things
that they do to achieve their goals.
Alex Williams, it is great to see you, my friend.
Thanks. Likewise.
Yeah. Yeah, how you been?
Good, good. Yeah, yeah.
Where you coming from? I am, so I teach at Musicians
(00:42):
Institute during the day. Very cool.
Yeah. So I was just.
I just wrapped up my classes. Nice.
Yeah, I remember one time we were having a conversation about
your employment status there. So are you still adjunct or were
you trying to do full time? Oh, what?
I was Yeah. Yeah.
So MI doesn't have a tenure track, so we're all like
faculty. There's no like, professor,
(01:03):
assistant professor. Yeah.
So we all, yeah, we're all just faculty and honestly full time
there is, is like 20-5 hours. Yeah, that's what you were
saying. I I was something, there was
something kind of like interesting about.
Right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
Yeah, 20, a lot of like universities with, you know,
(01:23):
that those kinds of systems, like usually full time will be
somewhere around like 18, you know, 18 credit hours or
something like that. And you have office hours and
stuff. And so it works.
It works differently. And yeah, 25 was like a lot for
me. Like I was like, I'm trying to
play gigs. Yeah, you don't even know.
I'm trying to play gigs and. Totally.
(01:45):
You know, to wake up in the morning was like a whole thing.
So I I don't teach before 12 so I can play gigs and.
You know, that's nice, man. If you can line it up like that
so that you're not in the schoolbefore noon.
Like, yeah, I remember when I was doing my doctorate and there
was like 1 semester in particular that I had a morning
class that started at 8:00 AM. Wow, dude.
(02:07):
Brother what? Why?
The question isn't why, The question is how.
How I did it. Yeah.
And the answer is drugs. Ohh.
Well. But, you know, I mean, it was it
was it was a real challenge. And it was like an orchestration
class which, like now looking back on it, I wish that I did
(02:29):
have more presence, not even of mine, but like, literally, I was
so exhausted all the time. Yeah.
Like studying orchestration is so valuable.
It's a good thing. Yeah, it.
Is and now I'm like, at least I still have the textbook.
That's great, you know. But Samuel Adler's The Study
Orchestration. Yeah, exactly.
It was the Adler 1 and it comes with the work.
Yes, yeah, yeah. And you're like, arrange this
for 9 bassoons and like a piccolo fluid and you do it.
(02:53):
But I mean, I'm, I'm working on some original music now and I'm
pretty like I'm trying to do like I'm familiar with taking a
band into a studio, you know, But for this next one, I want to
try to do some, I'm trying to orchestrate for some strings or
like some woodwinds and maybe come up with some combinations
of instruments that I just want to try out for this that I've
(03:15):
never really done. Yeah, which is a little
terrifying because, you know, I'm kind of pushing myself out
of my comfort zone. I'm also like, I got to remember
like these ranges. Yes, yeah, you know, just like
getting the right key, centre key signatures and everything
for whatever. If you go, so you probably go
to, maybe you go to Nam, maybe you don't go to Nam.
Right, I've been to Nam. Yes, I hear that.
(03:36):
I was like, I was like. Nam, by the way, is the for the
musicians who I don't know why you'd be listening to this if
you weren't a musician, but it'sbig convention that happens
every year in Anaheim. And it's like the conglomerate
of every music industry corporation and gear
corporation. And they all, you know, they do,
they show off their their gear for the coming year.
(03:57):
Right. Yep.
And everybody trying to get sponsored at the same time.
Yeah, it's a really high pressure situation.
It's a it's a nightmare. Yes, bro.
Did you go? Are you a handgun?
I no, I mean, well, yeah, I've been, I've been maybe like 3
times. Yeah, that's enough.
But if you hang out at the Orchestral Tools booth, this is
a sample company. They have mouse pads that have
(04:18):
the orchestral ranges on them. That's all fire, yeah.
So I got a mouse pad do. You have a mouse.
That shows me, yeah, yeah, okay.See, I don't even have a mouse.
I would need, yeah. Yeah.
But to answer your other questions.
I had another question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I did full time for a little bit.
I did like 30 hours. Ohk OK, so you did it.
(04:41):
I did it and then I was like, yo, this is a lot.
Yeah. So I got I ejected hours which
is also rough because you don't you don't get benefits unless
you're doing full time. Well, that's the thing, right?
That's yeah. So that's like a whole thing.
But yeah, I'm like, it's OK. I'm just going back to like the
normal freelance thing, you know, so.
Paying your own health insuranceand just yeah, Yep.
(05:04):
Hoping for that. Hoping.
Wouldn't it be great to live in a culture where you could
actually not have to worry aboutif you die?
Yeah, where the ER doesn't cost several $1000, you know, even if
they don't do anything. Yeah.
Did they just check in? Pulse.
Yeah. Let's pulse.
Ock. Come on.
Pulse oximeter. What are they?
Yeah. There you go.
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Thank you. That's it.
Yeah. Don't accept Tylenol from the.
(05:25):
Yeah. That's or Band-Aid.
Jeez. That's crazy.
I remember when I got in my I got in a little accident on this
like fake Vespa thing that I had, I had like this knock off
Vespa when I first moved to LA OK, a fantasy and I and I did it
and I promptly crashed it. And like when I did that, an
(05:45):
ambulance came, but I was like no, don't.
But it was crazy as they didn't bill me for it.
OK, which I wonder OK, good. You know, right.
I don't know. I, I really don't know.
They couldn't. Figure out who you were.
Yeah, maybe. It was really strange.
The whole thing is such a blur, though, OK.
It was so terrifying because I was wearing a jacket.
Yeah. And like, I took my jacket off
(06:08):
and I was like, I think I'm fine.
And I, and I, I had popped a blood vessel in my arm, but what
that looks like is just this like huge protrusion.
And I, I was like, oh, wait, maybe I did break my arm.
And I'm just like in a state of shock and I can't feel it.
And the guy was like, Nah, man, you're fine.
I was like, oh, OK, cool. Good.
(06:32):
Well then you guys can get out of here.
And they did, they did. They didn't stick around.
But that was that was a pretty scary day.
That's messed up though. I don't I don't ride on two
wheels anymore. Yeah, that kind of ruined it for
me. It's, it's funny too, because I
think about like, and I've had this conversation with people
before where because I do have this, you know, higher education
(06:52):
degree in music, where the clearlike next step in the track is
to teach at a. University.
Yeah, yeah, I support it. And I go back and forth on it.
Well, The thing is. I it's not like I'm opposed to
it, but I don't know about doingit in Lai.
Got you. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Because it's such a hustle here
(07:12):
and it's just like, I don't knowif it's something that I want to
try to pursue while I'm here. I feel like it makes more sense
to go to a city that isn't so saturated for.
That I don't know. It's so how much do you like
gigs in LA? That's the question, you know,
because if you move. That's that's what you giving
up. That's what you're giving up.
Yeah, that's true. I'm going to plead the fifth on
that. Depends on my mood.
(07:34):
Depends on the day. No, I love gigging in LA.
I mean, and that's what keeps mehere, you know, that and the
sunshine, the beaches, the tacos, the palm trees, you know,
all of the above. What brought you to LA?
What brought me here? I went to the grad school for
film scoring that was still hereat Berkeley.
Okay, but Berkeley, Valencia at the master switch.
(07:56):
Berkeley, yes, yes, exactly. Yeah, cool.
Yeah yeah. Berkeley College of Music.
But they back then in 2014, 20/13/2014, they only had
master's degrees in at Berkeley,Valencia in Spain.
So that's where I went. So you went to Spain to study
film scoring at Berkeley? Yes.
Cool. Yeah.
Wait, I didn't know that. I didn't know that you were a
(08:17):
film scoring guy. Is that what you were intending
to do more of when you moved here?
Yes. Yeah, Yeah, that was it.
Yeah. Because I was playing gigs in it
in Atlanta. I moved here from Atlanta, OK.
Let's walk this back. Yeah, yeah.
North Carolina. Where?
In North Carolina, by the way. Greensboro, yeah, OK.
It's originally Greensboro North.
I I drank a lot of Cheerwine. Ohh.
Nova, North Carolina. There you go.
(08:38):
Hey, there you go. Yeah, yeah.
I went just. Cheerwine like Doctor Pepper?
Kind of. Kind of.
It's sweeter, yeah. Yeah.
It's awesome. Yeah, I used to go to Carowinds.
Carowinds, dude. Wow.
Yeah. Border.
Yeah, yeah. I was there until I was 5.
You were there to see your vibe and then your family move.
And then, yes, exactly to Charlotte.
Charlotte. Yeah, for three years.
(08:59):
Cool. And then and then we moved to
Atlanta. Got it.
So you say that you're from Atlanta?
Yeah, like if I'm not, you know,you know, when people ask you
like, you know, how are you doing?
There's like, there's like the, you know, at this moment, you
know, and then like the all the levels of whatever.
Sure, I get you. So if I'm not trying to like,
really get into it, I'll be like, I, I half the time I'll
(09:22):
actually redirect and I'll be like, Oh yeah, I moved here from
Atlanta, you know, and I won't, you know what I mean is the
truth. I'm not completely trying to
give my lineage, but. I get it.
Well, but you know, I'm curious.I'm curious about you.
And we've never really talked about that, but I have a, a
similar kind of non like when people ask me where I'm from, I
usually say Chicago because it'seasier than saying I was born in
Los Angeles, grew up in Montrealuntil I was 10, then my family
(09:45):
moved to Chicago. Like it's just, you know, it's
too much. It's a lot.
Yeah. And then people who know me
lambast me and say that I claim that I'm from a lot of the
different places and I'm like, well, what am I supposed to?
Say, yeah, I don't know. I am.
Yeah, I am. Yeah, I am.
Sorry that I've. Just yes.
Come on. Sorry, I'm, I'm just cultured.
Yeah. No, I mean, I'm so I, I
(10:05):
definitely get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then he went to Spain. Yes, Yeah.
What was that one? It's crazy.
I had studied Spanish in grade school.
I mean, I thought my Spanish waspretty good.
I didn't consider myself fluent because it's like this thing
happens right? Where like you're listening to
people and you're listening to people and eventually they start
to sound slower and you can hearit.
(10:27):
But there were people still who they talked so fast that I still
did not, you know, so I was like, I, I don't, I didn't think
I was like completely there. But yeah.
But much better. My Spanish got much better.
I mean, that'll happen, especially this, the immersion
of being in that place for a while.
Yeah. Well, yeah, that's awesome, man.
And then you've been here for eight years.
What instrument did you get started playing?
(10:48):
Yes, so because you are a multi instrumental.
Thanks. I appreciate it.
Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying that as a
compliment. No, you excel at everything I've
ever seen you teach, and that's a matter of fact.
Yes, I appreciate. I appreciate that.
Yeah. I I started playing piano and
percussion at almost the same time.
I when I was a kid, yeah. I had a neighbor who played
(11:11):
piano and I we, you know, went over their house and we were
watching him play. And I was like, yo, I want to do
that. Yeah.
So my parents got me like an upright that was in the 4th
grade. So I started doing that.
And and also in the 4th grade I started playing percussion in
the school band. OK, cool.
So that was the deal. That's nice, 4th.
Grade is young to start doing that, Yeah, yeah. 4th grade is
(11:32):
young to have the discipline to try and play a percussion
instrument in time. Yeah.
Right. Like, yeah, it's crazy.
That says a lot about you. Sure.
The kind of kid you were. Yeah.
Were you? You were not a troublemaker, I'm
assuming. Not in the most like, you know,
not like what intentional discord.
I like to talk in class, but like, OK, not like, you know
(11:55):
what I mean? Like, not like I'm trying to,
like, derail the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which would be funny too, but yeah, maybe I enjoy that more
now, yeah, but not. I was gonna ask you So like, at
what point did you start to get into like playing music to the
degree that you are now? Like, did you do something click
at some point where you just were like, no, I'm, I'm like all
(12:19):
about. This Yeah, I, when I was in
elementary school, I drew all the time.
Actually, I would draw Dragon Ball Z OK, that's my deal.
I just sat around and drew Goku and, yeah, Super Saiyans.
And eventually in high school, Ifelt like I, you know, needed to
decide a little bit. Just just a little like I, I at
(12:40):
some point I was like, well, I could just play, you know, I
could just play, yeah. Because that, you know, that's
working or that feels, you know,pretty great.
So yeah, about that point, I pivoted away from, you know,
trying to I wanted to be a comicbook artist in middle school.
That was my deal. That's that's interesting.
I I also started out like drawing was my first form of
(13:01):
self. Expression.
Yeah, yeah. And like, my parents sent me to
art camp. I was never really actually that
good at it, but I think I just like, I just loved doing it.
That's great. That's cool though.
I mean, I, I totally see those things as being like parallel,
you know, forms of self-expression because you're
literally giving a presence to avision that you have.
(13:21):
Yeah. And like expressing yourself in
that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And comic stuff specifically. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was all Japanese, like Final Fantasy, whatever favorite.
Yeah, your. Favorite or your?
Absolutely, yeah. I would draw all of it.
Mine was and still is Garfield by the way, so.
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look. OK, so it was around high
(13:41):
school. Yeah.
And then, yeah. Well, did you start gigging when
you were in high school? No, no, no, no, I was not.
No, no, no. I was not like, do you play any
shows? Like, were you just mostly just
playing that's that's? Fair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely with school.
Yeah, yeah. So no, I mean this.
Lai mean, you know, kids I find here in LA are like, they're
(14:02):
like really good in high school.Yeah, but it's not real life
here like growing up in LA It's like it's Hollywood.
Yeah, exactly. It's just like, cool.
Yeah. My kid is playing at the Whiskey
a go go, right? Yeah, they're 12, right.
Like, yeah, it's going to be great.
And yeah, usually is great. Right.
I mean, our, my high school jazz, we did not know what we
(14:23):
were doing. Like there was no, you know what
I mean? Like I had no idea, you know.
Well, but with you. Though I don't know, you know,
yeah, you could be that kid. It was just like, you know, I
had something going on. My high school had a steel drum
band and a jazz band which was awesome.
That's pretty cool for a high school to offer a steel drum
like ensemble. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. Super.
You know, he was super unique and yeah, I went to a magnet
(14:45):
school, which meant that I wouldride a bus in the morning.
Super like get a up at like 5:30, get on this bus and the
bus would wait at different schools and you know, this kind
of thing. So I would get there super early
every morning and in the morning, what like 7:30, right?
Like do any of us get up this this this early anymore?
Sometimes if I have a flight, yeah.
(15:06):
It's me too, right? Yeah.
Yeah, right. Yeah.
But I would be there super early, and that's when they
would practice. And so I'd be hearing the play
all of this stuff, and I thoughtit was awesome.
So I was like, yo, I want to do that.
That's when I started playing drum set.
I was going to ask because you keep saying percussion and they
and and very deliberately not saying drum set.
So I was wondering if those were.
(15:28):
Yeah, different. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I started playing drum
set there and then basically when at some point those guys
graduated and there was like no one left to do the stuff.
And it was just me and one of the other guys who who who
actually played drums and I knewthe beats because I had been
(15:50):
listening to them for like, I don't even know how long and
half. Trying to sleep.
Yeah. Eating brown sugar cinnamon pop
Tarts for breakfast. Definitely the best way.
Yeah, it's. Like yes.
Come on. Yeah.
Head and shoulders. Yeah, absolutely.
Strawberry close. Right, right, right.
Wild Berry. Wild Berry.
I never had wild Berry bro, is that new?
No. No, no, no, no, no.
That's the purple one. The purple.
One, maybe that's a regional offering.
(16:11):
Hi bro, LA has no taste in pop tarts, no?
Chicago, man. I never saw.
Wild Berry pop see bro but I remember yes strawberry,
blueberry, blueberry. OK, brown sugar, cinnamon and
then smores. Smores.
Those are the four. Those are cool.
Small fine, yes. Got you.
(16:34):
It's like the idea, right? You know what song?
OK, so I do. Every now and again I'll watch
Family Guy, and there's that oneFamily Guy song where he sings,
you know, do you ever put butteron a pop?
And I never have. That I've never done anything.
And I've thought about it but I've never like sunk to those
deaths of just like fat kindness.
(16:55):
That's my recent snack though. Thing has been putting butter in
dates. Really, really, really, really.
OK, OK. It's it's awesome, OK.
Yes, unfrosted brown sugar, cinnamon, by the way.
Yeah, that's my jam. Really.
Yeah. You can get rid of the icing.
And then it's like it's even more like, well, like they come.
(17:16):
You can you can buy them this way.
Yeah. Yeah.
Unfrosted strawberry, unfrosted blueberry and unfrosted brown
sugar. You prefer the unfrosted.
Yeah, yeah, because it feels, itfeels more balanced.
Yeah, it definitely is, but I feel like if you're already the
pop tart, it's. Like, give me the yeah, short
bread. Yeah, yeah.
Come on. So I have some questions written
(17:37):
down more or less on the subjects of health, Wellness,
fun, that kind of stuff. They're on 4 separate Wheel of
Fortune style wheels. OK, pick a pick a number between
1:00 and 4:00. 3/3. Yeah.
All right. So this is the third wheel and
if you want to go ahead and spinthe button and then you'll
(17:59):
you'll see a. Question.
Hit the button. Hit the button, give it a spin.
And I get a question. Yeah.
And I'm just going to be honest about when it's actually
stopped. Yeah, this is.
You're the first person I've actually given control.
That's. Awesome, yeah.
You took it with such confidence.
I was like, yeah, I guess. I mean I.
Guess you're the host now. Oh my gosh, that is better,
(18:20):
right? Because otherwise I just have to
believe you that that you didn't.
Show to you, OK, what's made youso distrust?
That's good. No, no, no, no.
That's funny though. Yeah, it's so I got.
Do you have a pre show ritual? Do you have a pre show ritual?
And I guess when I wrote this question, I'll say this.
That's because there's a lot of different kinds of shows, right?
(18:40):
Yes, yes, yes. And this could be a an answer.
Simple if you're like on a tour.Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Where like so much of your life is kind of chaotic and out of
your control. Gotcha.
Yeah, I feel like that's the time that a pre show ritual
would be or something that mightjust help to kind of get you in
the headspace of like, OK, this is now what I'm doing.
I think what I would probably dois before a gig that I got this
(19:07):
exercise from Aaron Parks actually on a like a jazz
heaven, you know, master class that he did OK, which was to
sing something and then play what you sing and then sing
something else and then play what you sing.
So you sing a little, you know, double, double BA and you play
and you just keep doing that right?
And that you're basically practicing playing what you
(19:28):
hear, you know, And it's like it's so that that connection, it
makes it really sharp, super sharp.
And like 5 minutes of that is like gold totally.
You know, but maybe I would do that like right beforehand.
And then I'd be in the zone likeI could just put you in, you
know, because then you're just, you're just doing exactly what
you, what you mean to, to play. You know what I find speaking to
(19:50):
that? No, no, because you just remind
like there's something so real about this.
If you were like, if you have the opportunity to record
something or like it's not something that has to happen
right away in the moment, but it's like it kind of just speaks
to preparation and how it plays in with playing what you hear.
Because I noticed that, like if I'm working on something that
I'm going to be playing over, yeah.
I can practice those chords for a little while and like practice
(20:13):
soloing over it or like coming up with a line or something.
Like usually what will end up happening is it's not right
away, but like maybe after a couple hours, I put some
distance between me and whateverI was practicing.
And then I'll start to kind of like let my subconscious mind
take over, start letting this stuff come in.
And then it'll be like either the next day or like later in
the day. And that's when they're like
(20:35):
really richer kind of, you know,material comes out of it
because. You start to hear lines over the
progression. Totally.
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
And I feel like it's kind of a extended version of that
practice technique, but one sucha, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Improvisation is like the same
thing, Like the mind responds toour intentions, you know, and
(20:56):
most of us when we improvise, weare trying to say, you know,
cool stuff or what we think. We're just, you know, we're just
trying to, we're trying to speak.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like the mind is like,
oh, I see that you're trying to speak over this thing.
And then it starts feeding me things to say, yeah, you know,
And then we just play what we hear.
And then at that point. Ideally.
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, right.
Yeah. Or you just wiggle your fingers
(21:18):
around and start rushing. Ah, yes, bebop.
Yes. Yeah.
But yeah, yeah. But at that point, it's like
when we take a break, the mind starts processing the song, and
then when we come back to it, wedo better because it's processed
it. Yeah, it's to me, it's the same
motor as riding music, right. You have to ask, how do we get
(21:42):
better at riding music that's soabstract, you know?
Oh it is 100% but. But the the longer we try and
write music, the more months go by.
We write better songs and we write.
You know what I mean? I do, absolutely.
Well, it's interesting too because like sometimes you can
sit there and you can beat your head against the desk, like
working on 2 bars of music and feel like, all right, I finally
(22:04):
cracked this 2 bar thing that I've been like working on and
then take that break and then come back and it's just like,
oh, I just got 40 more bars, youknow?
And it's like, I like the there's an idealistic part of me
that wants to say you don't haveto suffer in the creative
process. Sure, sure, sure.
(22:24):
I don't know how implicitly truethat is, which is to say that
like, the work is getting it out.
Yeah, you know, Right, right, right.
I mean, if you think about it, though, like both of us are
improvisers, right? So if you had wanted to, you
could have just streamed all your improvisation and that been
the song. Really.
The thing that's is slows us down is we're applying our
(22:48):
critical thinking of like, is this a good melody?
You know, and we keep iterating.Right, of course.
You know, and like, that's, you know, so like, in a way, I mean,
we could just do, you know, do it fast or something.
I think it comes down to what wethink of our writing, you know,
what we allow ourselves to thinkof our writing.
Yeah. And yeah, yeah, yeah, That's,
(23:12):
that's yeah. You know.
Do you write a lot? Yeah, yeah, Yeah, you do.
Yeah. What are you working on right
now? Right now I'm writing music for
short film. Oh.
OK, Yeah, yeah. So you're still doing some film
stuff? Absolutely.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. How much of that are you doing?
Well, you know, so at this particular point I just do gigs
when they come. OK, so you're.
Not pushing it as like you're trying to get into that as your
(23:35):
full time gig. Well, I mean, I ideally I would
like in like my own perfect world, I would do, I would play
gigs and write music and that just be that's how I make money,
you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But. It sounds really nice.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, but.
Yeah, at the, at the moment, like what I should be doing to
(23:56):
get film gigs is I should be going to film festivals and
hanging out with directors, you know, and same thing with like
video game, video game scoring like.
Yeah, that's the whole thing. Going to game developer
conferences and like talk hanging out with game
developers. It's like the reverse of like,
you know, like music gigs, right?
Like or playing, playing gigs because like we'll hang out with
(24:17):
other musicians, but if you hangout with other composers, like
they're not going to offer you agig.
Sure, sometimes they'll let you be an additional.
Well, my understanding of how a lot of that works is a lot of
the composers work under like, Idon't know what I don't know
what the name would be, but likeHans Zimmer, there's like what a
couple 100 people that are Hans Zimmer, right That like do the
different, you know, orchestrations or right is that
(24:40):
am I wrong? I have no comment.
You have no comment. I have no.
Come on. Let's break the recording.
This right. All right, all right.
Yeah. OK.
Fair enough. It's none of my business.
It's none. Of your business, but I, I can
make it some of my business. Well, then I, I'll just say
this. I have a couple of friends who
do film composition. That is their gig and they made
(25:02):
a conscious decision when they were getting started not to
pursue the, you know, that former model.
Ohh yeah. Was they?
Didn't want to get lost in someone elses machine.
There are composers that like, they have ghostwriters, right?
Yeah. There's a lot of that actually
in Hollywood. A lot of that in music, too.
Yes, yes, that's true, you know.Yeah, yeah.
(25:22):
I mean, music, we're probably better about crediting people.
I mean like. I think so, yeah, Yeah.
No, no, for sure. No.
And I hear what you're saying too.
Like there's people who wanted to avoid the route of ghost
riding. Like this is really terrible
engine in Hollywood. And I've worked for a bunch of
different composers and I've managed to avoid most of it
(25:42):
myself. But the, you know, the engine is
that people will go and they'll be an assistant for a composer.
They'll make $20.00 an hour, which is the going rate for
assistance, you know, maybe 21 an hour.
And that was pre inflation. So hopefully it's at least 25
now. And they'll work for the
composer. The composer will ask them to
(26:03):
write on stuff that they're doing.
They won't get any credit for it.
And they'll do that for years, hoping that one day the composer
will be generous enough to forgogetting any assistance from them
and give them a gig that they can't do, you know?
Yeah. I mean, that's Yep, you know,
(26:23):
Yep. Yeah, it's tough.
And the idea of not being able to do a gig really comes at
they're just, it's deciding because what they'll do is
they'll take more gigs than theycan do and they'll hire people
and have those people write music for them under their
supervision that don't get any credit.
So all it takes to fix this is for the composers to make up a
(26:47):
new position. Like when when we watch, we look
at movie credits, right? It goes down the list of the
artists, and it says lead art direction, blank.
Artist, artist, artist, artist, artist.
You know, Yeah. Yeah.
So we know, oh, when that guy's in charge, stuff is awesome,
right? Yeah.
So I think the same thing shouldhappen with music.
It should be lead music direction or lead composer,
(27:08):
composer, composer, composer. And that would fix it because
what happens is those assistantscan't leave the job even if the
composer is abusive, which also happens a lot because they don't
have anything to their name. So if they leave, they just walk
away with nothing. And they have to hold on through
abusive relationships until the composer is finally, one day is
(27:30):
like, OK, now I'm going to give you some work and I'm going to
hire another assistant because Istill need an assistant, which
is like fat chance. But I watch people do this for
like 8 years. Yeah, at some notable studios
I've. Heard longer?
Yeah, yes, yeah. So like, yeah, it's, it's
abusive, but I mean, there's just like enough of a desire for
people to take those positions on that they still are
(27:50):
available, right? Right, right.
Well, they don't know. There's enough people that don't
know that, you know what I mean?And they'll just keep signing up
and then they find out, and thenthe cycle continues.
Yeah, you know, so. But you obviously knew.
Oh so. You're I found out, yeah.
So you got out of it, which is good, right?
No film scoring does. I've heard that it's
particularly ruthless. Yeah.
(28:11):
In that sense, yeah. There's a lot of that, yeah.
Here's a here's a question for you.
Do your practice routines changebased on whatever's on your
plate? Some cats, you know, I, you
know, some, some cats, yeah. They just operate that way from
gig, gig. Yeah.
Like I've read interviews of like Brad Mehldau, right?
And he's like, well, I'll just whatever I'm going to play next,
you know, that's what he's working on.
(28:32):
And me, I'm not that cat. I, I have stuff that I want to
be able to play that I can't play right from records and
stuff I've heard of people doingand I'm always working on those
things in addition to whatever it is that you know what I mean?
I'm like. You're pretty locked in.
(28:53):
I'm very strategic. How many hours a day do you
practice? Oh, like like an hour to an hour
and a half per instrument, you know, So just jump.
Instrument. Yeah, yeah, just drums and
piano. OK.
Yeah, like, really. Just like an hour, you know,
maybe an hour and a. Half, but that's like, you know,
in addition to to your teaching and gigging load finding two to
(29:17):
three hours a day to commit to practicing.
I mean, that's yeah, that's a serious discipline.
Yes. It's really impressive.
Yeah. And in that sense, it just seems
to me like you are a much more functional and grounded no.
Stop. Being, you know, where does it
come from? That's what I want to know.
That's what this podcast is about.
Where does the discipline come from?
(29:37):
Yeah. Who are you?
Yes. Who am I?
Yeah, I Yeah. For me, everything is like a
science experiment in some sense, right?
I'm trying to figure things out.There's some cats here that I
feel like they really understandhow they get better, right?
And they just do that all the time.
And so, you know, some of the things I learned in school, I
(29:59):
don't, I avoid, like, I don't dothem anymore because they
weren't really working for me. Yeah.
So I went on this whole trip of trying to find things that
actually worked for me in practice.
And and the catch is when you'retrying to learn yourself, right?
Like you can take lessons and people tell you stuff, but the,
the true, the reality is no matter what they tell you, when
(30:20):
you go home and try it for yourself, you have to evaluate
like, is it making me better? Totally.
Or do I sound? Do I do, do I start to not sound
the way that I want to sound? Yeah.
And for me, I realized that the only way I can really write off
a practice method or on is if I'm doing it consistently.
(30:41):
That's the all, you know, 'causeotherwise then I can say, oh,
maybe I didn't sound good because I didn't practice
anything. Yeah, So I will do different
practice methods and then I will, I have to do that like,
you know, at least once every two days.
That's like my minimum, right? If I'm super busy, right?
Like just once every two days, Istill make some progress.
(31:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that way I can attribute the
result to what I've been doing. Yeah, because you have a control
factor. Control.
Yeah, Yeah, that totally makes sense.
Yeah, Yeah. And I mean, it's funny too,
because I've kind of come to thesame.
I think that this comes up more in teaching because like
sometimes they'll have students come to me and they'll be like,
I got this book or I saw this like 45 minute thing on YouTube
(31:27):
and I like, I really want to getinto it with you and I'll be
like, cool, I'm down right, right, right.
But here's the thing. We can do this book cover to
cover. Right.
Yep. If you get one thing out of this
book, though, it will be worth it, because that's how this
works. That's great.
This isn't, this isn't going to change your life.
This isn't going to completely alter the way that you play,
(31:49):
Yeah, you know, or think about music.
Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.
But like, I have this thing where it's like being a good
musician really, or just being amusician is thinking and
engaging musically. Yes, so.
All of this is to your benefit. That's great.
And don't don't think of it as anet loss because you spent a lot
of time on something that you didn't.
I think that the the result was right there.
(32:11):
It's a very non linear like you know way of of growing, but that
doesn't mean that you're not growing.
Yes, Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's very, that's very, that's
positive. That's a very positive way of
looking at that. Hey, what's the point of, you
know, I mean, I've, I've, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You've been doing it for long enough too that you start to see
it. It's just like, man.
What's interesting too is the longer that you teach, the more
(32:32):
you're able to see the growth inyour students week to week.
That's like, I mean objectively it's not huge steps.
Right, right, right. But sometimes you just like,
man, every time I see you, yeah,it's a little better.
Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. And I see it.
You, there's no way that you could see it, right?
But I see it. Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
(32:53):
Yeah. I mean, and so if you're, if I'm
trying to test additional practice methods, like
technically, whatever students decide that they want to do,
right, they become, they're moreinformation technically for me,
right? Yeah, I definitely always try
and give people things that I believe work, you know, or at
least work for me, right? And sometimes people like, oh,
(33:16):
well, I want to do it this way, you know?
And so that actually is another opportunity for me to say to see
if it's if they progress or. You'll you'll let them go for
it. You're like, you know, man, it's
your funeral. Yes, exactly.
Yeah. Like if that's, you know, that's
why you want to do it, Yeah. So and then when they come to
you six months later and they go, man, I still suck and be
like, well, I told. You exactly that's that's 100%
(33:40):
true. Like it'll be like, well, the
difference, you know, like you know, we talked about doing XY
and Z and the difference betweenthe way you want to sound and
you sounding is if you do what Ido, you know, maybe it.
Sounds like you have infinite patience then, to sit there and
let somebody talk at you. I won't, much like I've been
doing. Bro yeah I won't.
I won't drag people, but so far,you know what I mean?
(34:01):
That's my deal. I literally won't.
I'm like I. Can't see you doing it.
I really can't see you losing your temper or just being like,
hey, that's you. Know right, it's the your it's
your funeral thing, you know what I mean?
It's like, I mean, OK, all right, you know, that's how you
wanna do. I had a lesson the other week
that was like, it was, it was actually horrendous, but it was
that kind of a thing. It was.
(34:22):
Actually horrendous. Yeah, it was with one of my I
gave a peer a lesson, you know? Oh, interesting.
But a peer from, like, the composer world.
OK. And they wanted to learn more
playing stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But they had a way that they felt like they wanted to learn,
you know, and I personally just.That just wasn't my deal.
Like some teachers like to play along with their students right
(34:44):
when they practice and some people don't, you know, I don't
typically play along with my students.
I like to explain, you know, theway that I, I want to do
something, I'll demonstrate for them.
And then I have them do it, you know, and I'm always giving them
practicals. And maybe this is the difference
from one instrument to another, but I remember, like, playing
(35:07):
duo with my instructors was always like, yeah.
That's great. That's great, yeah.
And then other times, we would put on, like, a backing track.
Yes. Yeah.
And like, you know, trade choruses.
And that also was like, in that kind of environment where, like,
you know, it's a teacher. So it's not like you're trying
to cut. You're just literally, like,
(35:29):
trying to copy. Yes, of course.
Like learn, you know, through osmosis.
That way, yeah. And.
And that's fine too, you know what I mean?
Like some people like to do that, you know, she wanted that,
right? Yeah.
Yeah. But I don't typically.
I don't typically do that kind of thing.
I mean, especially like, well, I, I think there's, there's
three facts. There's the teachers that are
genuine about that. Yeah.
(35:50):
And then there's teachers that they're doing that because
they're bored, because they've been teaching seven students and
they want, they, they just desperately want to play, right.
You know, which I'm, I'm kind oflike, yeah, of course.
Right. Yeah.
And I'm kind of like, I have to judge myself like in my heart.
Like if I'm really just about the student, you know, then
like, I hope I take myself out of it, right.
(36:12):
So that's like, that's definitely a thing for me.
I really respect like there's some teachers where I feel like
the quality of my instructions, if my instructions are good
enough, I can get them to do thething without ever touching the
piano. Sure.
That's you know what I mean. Yeah.
I mean, that's a strong ideal. Right, right, right, right.
(36:32):
My main goal with students is toteach them how to extract and
apply the information that they want, which for me involves like
I to make them think about the thing I have to show them how to
fish, you know? Totally.
(36:52):
And and that's, and that's it. Like so I and I, part of it for
me is helping them realize that they can fish, you know, that
they can like transcribe or whatever.
That's a that's always been suchan important thing for me to
pass on to my students. Yes.
Yeah. In an ideal world here, I'm
teaching myself out of a job. Yeah.
Because you should be able to tofigure this stuff out.
And I want to show you how to dothat.
(37:13):
Yes. It's interesting though, because
not all your students want that.That's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And like, the course of study, to get to that point where
you're engaging with music in that kind of a way, right, is in
and of itself a challenge. Yes.
Yeah. And it's not, you know, it's a
whole other thing. Right, right.
Yeah. But so, yeah, it just, it gets
really tricky. But they, they almost just
(37:34):
demanded that I just like jam with them, you know?
Yeah. And it was just like, and I was
giving them such practical stuff, you know?
Do the kids are the kids jammingthese days?
I'm asking that seriously because I remember when I was
doing my doctor program and theyput me in charge of the Jam Club
at USC. Brother, the kids are not
(37:57):
jamming. They're not playing as much like
out out of their bedroom. That's fair.
And I think that probably you have a certain number of
students who aren't playing as much as we did maybe when we
were younger with other people, 'cause they're just working on
videos recording because they can.
Yeah. And they probably really love to
(38:19):
play and like you might be theironly chance to play with
somebody else that. Week that's fair yeah, but you
know if I hold even to my position then that's going to
force them to go find actual outof school jam opportunities yeah
and then they might actually getsome work yeah you know what I
mean they might get work and thebest thing to do I think is if
(38:43):
you're studying in the city thatyou want to live in that you
drum up work while you're in school ohh I mean.
That's that's objectively true, right?
Really in any field of study, honestly.
But yeah. Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, that's like, yeah, it's just interesting
because times are, the times arechanging.
Right, right, right. You know, absolutely.
(39:04):
And I have a lot, and the culture is changing.
Right, right, right. You know, yeah.
My first ever guitar teacher, this is when I was, like, 14.
Yeah. He would say to me he'd be like,
you know, you're not going to get famous.
Just wanna learn Stairway to Heaven thank.
You right, you know, Are you projecting?
(39:25):
Yes, Sir. Are you?
Well, he was. He, absolutely he was.
But you're like 12 like. A.
Little older than 12, but, but even still, yeah, it was just
like, what's your problem? You know?
But then I but but I also I, andI mean, this is me just being a
little dummy. But I was like, oh, I'll show
him. OK, you know, And I was like,
this is gonna make me work. That'll make you killing.
(39:47):
Yeah, that's the street. Look at Michael Jordan.
But. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Right again, I then I took it
personally. Then I took it personally.
That's it dude. I love that document.
I love seeing him in that. That documentary is fire.
Yeah, dude. Yeah, yeah.
But all that is to say is like, I think that it's good to have
those kinds of you don't want everybody in your life to be
telling you like, no, you got it, you got it, because then
(40:09):
what's gonna happen? Absolutely.
You know, you're gonna think when it when it doesn't work
out, right, right. What did I do wrong?
When the reality is like, you dohave to be able to kind of push
through it. Yeah, yeah.
The truth. Yeah, the truth is, is also
loving. Yeah, yeah.
I have a question for you beforewe get into our next little
segment here. OK, My, my question is this,
because I see you as somebody who's like your attitude.
(40:32):
I've never known you to be in anything less than a great mood.
Like, you know, whether that's true or not.
Like you present as just like sofriendly and charismatic.
You're so good at the stuff. Every time we've done a gig,
like you've always just you killit.
So like my question for you is like, what?
What do you struggle with? Like what do you consider to be
a struggle for you? I'm not actually always in a
(40:54):
good mood. See, that's so interesting for
you to say that I wear my feelings on my.
Me too. Me too, I.
Can't walk into a room if I'm not like I don't know how to do.
I don't know how to put on the the face.
I got you. Yeah, you know.
No, I think it's better not to. I mean, the reason why like I,
you know, seem like I'm in a good mood.
It's it's all Jesus like that's for me.
Like I literally like. So what does that do for you?
(41:18):
What is that? Where does that?
What does it give you to be ableto go wherever I'm at?
Yeah. Like I want to meet it at this
idealistic level. I pray, you know, I pray, right?
I pray to God. Yeah.
And my prayers are actually justme talking to God, right?
They're not any pre formulated, you know, like say this prayer
and whatever, like I'm with it, you know.
And I have found, I even learnedmore recently too.
(41:42):
Yeah. You know, I've just been walking
with God for like, you know, since I, since I was like 13.
And and I found even just withinthe last two years that if I
pray really, honestly, that God meets me in a way that doesn't
happen if I pretend that I'm not, you know, that I'm not mad
or that I wasn't disappointed, you know, because we've
(42:04):
experienced a lot of disappointment, you know, as
humans, You know what I mean? Like man, like you, you know, I
was really hoping that this would work this way.
I really, they thought that, youknow, God might make this easier
or make this work out in my lifeor whatever, right?
And sometimes it doesn't happen.And then you have to grapple
with like Dag, like why? Why did you know?
Like, because if you believe in God right, then you're working
(42:27):
with this paradigm of there's someone out there, you know who,
who loves you but doesn't stop everything from happening.
Or knows better than you. Yeah, of course.
Exactly. Absolutely.
And I think the definition like when you, you know, talking
about something like disappointment, like
disappointment is me going, I should have gotten this when
what happened wasn't that. Right, right.
(42:50):
And yes, exactly, you know, and understanding that, well, if I
can remove myself from this, like this didn't happen for, for
some reason unbeknownst to me, yes, of course.
It's interesting that religion comes up as something that that
that's in a way that I know people have gotten to that
point. For me, it wasn't that
specifically. It's the only way that I've
(43:11):
figured out a way to sort of like be comfortable.
Yeah, yeah, with the way that things.
Are right, right, Right. Because there's so much to be
disappointed about if you chooseto be.
That's fair. That's absolutely fair, you
know. Or you go like, this is where
I'm at at this point in time at this place and like.
And, and sometimes it's, it's like it's misunderstanding.
Sometimes it's delay in the thing that, you know, that we
(43:34):
hope for. Like, I believe that God is
good, you know, but sometimes helets really bad stuff happen to
us, you know? What I'm really interested in
and fascinated by is the practical application of these.
Absolutely yes, yes, you know. And so if you say to me like,
well, the short answer is the reason why I present this way
and I'm able to do so consistently is because I pray
(43:55):
you know, and This is why this, this is what has this value to
me. And.
Right, right you. You've you.
You've. Sold me, of course, Of course.
Absolutely. Yeah, right, right.
Yeah. And.
I love and I love to hear it. And honestly, like, you know,
we've been going for the only reason I'm stopping you is
because I'm like, I know. Like, no, no, no, you're gone.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I right.
(44:15):
This is this has been. It's great.
It's just great to hear it. Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for, of course, so forthcoming and sharing that.
And by no means would I have ever wanted to give you the
impression that religion wasn't something that.
You can No, of course. No, no.
I just. The whole thing is yeah, no.
But he didn't say anything. I know.
But I know you and when I asked you to come on, I was actually
kind of wondering if it was going to come up.
It's really interesting that youkind of you.
(44:37):
You must have made it a point tonot bring up religion up until.
I mean, yeah, I'd shoot the breeze, yeah.
I know you do, but it's, you know, but it's, it's just, it's
it's actually really nice for meto get it because I don't know
if we would have ever had a chance to talk about that stuff
in that way had it not been for something like this where it's
just like, yes, what's really, what's the process like?
Yeah. And that's and that's really
(44:57):
cool to hear it. Well, yeah, yeah.
And I, and I just, I just wantedto, to add to that, to, to what
I was saying, the end result of looking at it that way, where
God has planted all these good things and that sin plants all
these bad things, is that I am not looking, I, I don't, I don't
identify, you know, as someone who is all of these bad things.
(45:20):
You know what I mean? Like it's like I identify as a
son of God and like if I mess up, that's not who I am, you
know? Yeah, yeah.
You see that which is different,you know?
Yeah. And that and like, you know, God
changing who I am. That's where the good attitude,
all that stuff comes from. No, Yeah, yeah.
(45:40):
So yeah, yeah. That's, that's the deal.
That's. Man, what a beautiful thing to
hear. Yeah.
Thank you. Yeah, man.
But thank you. Thank you so much for coming on.
Of course there's. Just one more thing you got to
do, you got to look into that camera and you have to say I put
my. Pants on one leg.
I put my pants on one leg. I got a time.
You're already here first, folks.
Thanks for tuning in and we willsee you next week.
(46:28):
One leg top. One leg top.
You put your pants on one leg.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.