#16: Aeden Anthony Pham - Adaptability for Growth, the Power of Therapy, and Investing in Relationships - One Thousand Gurus Podcast

Episode Transcript
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J.R. (00:01):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of 1000
Gurus with me, your host, jrYonacruz.
It is my purpose to have greatconversations with unique and
interesting guests from variousfields, backgrounds and walks of
life.
So today's guest is a friend ofmine, aidan Anthony Pham is a
published researcher,knowledgeable in the topics of
race, gender and sexuality inpopular media, has two master's

(00:23):
degrees and has studied in fivedifferent countries.
Professionally, he has workedin multiple industries,
including service, non-profitentertainment and technology.
In their 20 plus years of workexperience, they've received
recognition from the citycouncil, the state government,
the office of the president andeven Disneyland.
Aeden is an award-winning singer, dancer, writer and film
director and also enjoysinvesting their time in various

(00:44):
activities, such asstand-winning singer, dancer,
writer and film director, andalso enjoys investing their time
in various activities such asstand-up comedy, archery, ice
skating and video slash boardgaming.
So this was a fun interviewbecause most of our
conversations, usually in person, end up like this whenever we
hang out, we tend to switchfrequently from very deep and
philosophical topics to morehumorous ones, and then very
back and forth frequently,because that's just how our

(01:06):
brains work.
We cover a lot of practicaltopics in this episode, such as
Aeden affinity for seekingcoaching and feedback in various
aspects of life.
We also cover advice on how toadvance your career and
potentially double your income,and then we touch upon how
therapy has significantlyimpacted his life in a very
positive way, of course.
So, without further ado, hopeyou enjoy this episode with

(01:27):
Aeden Anthony Pham.
Hello everyone and welcome backto 1000 Gurus.
Today's guest is Aeden Pham.
Hello, there you go.
Hi, it's me.
Thank you, Aeden, for beinghere.
I you go.
Hi, it's me.
Thank you, Aeden for being here.

(01:47):
I appreciate it.
You're guru number 16, Ibelieve.
Yeah 16 of season two.
So, yeah, this is going to befun.
I will go into how I know youand I know it's a little
extensive because we go kind ofway back.
So we met in college at UCI.
Even though we were both in thedance community there, we never
danced on the same team, stillhaven't.
But yeah, I'd say that you know, in college we're like kind of

(02:08):
in the same circles, kind ofacquaintances.
We're never really like closefriends.
And then we reconnected againafter we both did the 17 super
project with Untitled, and thenthat was back up back in the
summer of 2023.
And then you joined Team B UKfor a year and then now you're
one of the board members forcollide and you do projects with
P&D.
We also do stand up comedytogether because I wanted to

(02:31):
take stand up to one and then atthis comedy theater in
Huntington Beach and then so youtook one on one while you took
to one with me.
So that was kind of interesting.
So we've been doing open micson and off for the last year and
then we out a lot.
I consider you a close friendand one of the few people that,
like I, feel like who I hang outwith are similar stage of life
as me because, I'll do hang outwith a lot of younger people

(02:53):
like on the college team I'm in,and then some of my own friends
and then some older people likeat work.
So yeah, any clarifications onyou know that or your bio.
I know I've read your bio bythis point in the show.

Aeden (03:05):
Yeah, I would clarify to say that when we met in UCI, it
wasn't just that we were in thesame circles or that we had
danced together, but more sothat you had been one of the
first people to teach meanything about dance.
So for me, I have this historyof really looking up to you and
aspiring to get to where you'reat I appreciate that yeah, I I'm

(03:30):
glad.

J.R. (03:30):
I'm glad we made this that much of an impact or at least I
did, because I was casa rightyeah, it's a dance off, so you
hadn't danced before that andthat was kind of like the first
thing.
if for me I don't know, forpeople who don't know when you
go to one of the ucs and youhave casa Dance-Off, it's very
like rough, because the dancepractice hours are even worse
than competitive teams.
It's like 10, 12, 14 hourpractices which are insane, and

(03:55):
there's only like 10% of themare dancers.
So, for example, you have abunch of freshmen it's only for
first years freshmen fallquarter and you'll have like
maybe 40, maybe 50 or whatever.
It's like a large number offreshmen and maybe five to ten
percent of them actually havedance experience.
So you have long practiceswhere a lot of people are
beginners and you have a handfulof actual people with

(04:16):
experience and then you havechoreographers to come in and
teach them and so you have thiskind of like boot camp hazing
korean club.
but like competing with otherucs and it's so intense.
But some of the alumni fromcasa dance off, are like some
heavy hitters in the dancecommunity, so that's kind of
what draws people to it and it'slike a fun first year

(04:36):
experience like at uc.

Aeden (04:38):
Yeah and it's not uh uc specific any or, oh, that's
right, that's right you're right, you're right uh I'm wrong
because they also.

J.R. (04:43):
There was non-uc schools as well um so yeah, it's just
like a the casa um clubs at eachcollege, like in socal area,
will compete and stuff so what athrowback yeah, now you're
still dancing and I'm stilldancing too.
So, yeah, yeah, cool.
So, um, let's get into ourfirst topic then.

(05:05):
So, as usual, like origin story.
So my big questions for you andfor the audience is kind of
like how, kind of like where yougrew up, you know, what was
your career aspirations, whatwere your main influences
growing up, and then we'll getinto all of these different
hobbies and interests that youhave, because if people read
your bio, you kind of do allthese things, but can you just

(05:25):
walk us through kind of yourorigin story?

Aeden (05:35):
Sure.
So I was born and raised inOrange County, california, so
it's a pretty Vietnamesedominant area, but our family
never really lived in thecommunity and so I went to
schools that were pretty about50-50, like half Viet viet, half
white, and even then I feltlike I didn't really fit with
either group and so I wasconstantly like in this space of
trying to find like a place tobelong or a community to connect

(05:56):
to.
I started exploring a littlebit more as I got into high
school, because I was in a very,very tiny middle school there
was like 30 people in ourgraduating class and then
jumping to a high school 3,300people was a huge jump for me.
So that was my opportunity toexplore a little bit more, lean

(06:16):
into some of the more creativethings that I was doing.
Because I was in a small highor middle school a small middle
school I was doing a lot ofsports because that's all we had
.
And then when I got into highschool I was like, oh, we can
actually do like creative stuff.
There's like singing stuff.
Dance was not allowed for boysback then.
It was like a girls only sport.

(06:37):
I guess I know Where's the boobutton.
And then it was in universitythat I think I was really opened
up to a lot of newopportunities, a lot of
different things that I couldparticipate in or that I can
learn from, and so that was avery exciting experience for me.
I think I found people to lookup to, yourself, for example,

(07:04):
and it was usually people whowere committed to their craft,
who were driven, who had purpose, and these are all things that
I was searching for for myself.
I longed for communityconnection because, like I said
before, I've always feltdisconnected, and one of the
ways that I was hoping to gainthat sort of connection was
through mentorships, things likethat.

(07:24):
So that's kind of how I gotstarted in a lot of all of these
.
That motivation generally droveme to find new spaces to step
into or gave me the desire towant to start new things or
investigate new things to seehow does it fit for me, how do I
find myself in these spaces orhow do I participate in these

(07:45):
activities or these communities?

J.R. (07:47):
Okay, so trying to find community connecting and you're
trying these different things indifferent spaces.
So were there any particulartypes of creative outlets or
things that you felt like youlatched on to or resonated with?
You said it was a lot inuniversity, Was there anything
in high school or was like like,can you walk us through that?

Aeden (08:06):
Sure, the big one for high school was singing.
So my sister started singing inour school's choir and I was
intrigued by that.
So I joined and I ended updoing choir for three years.
So I started my sophomore year,finished out in my senior year
and I took a little bit of astep back once I got into
university because I was part ofthis program at UCI called the

(08:32):
Freshman Summer Start Programand we were just walking from
the university town center, fromgetting in and out or whatever,
to campus and we walked througha parking structure and that's
when I ran into MCIA campus andwe walked through a parking
structure and that's when I raninto MCIA and I had never heard
of a dance team before.
I didn't know people dance as athing, you know.
The only dancing I understoodwas like okay, you go to a

(08:52):
wedding and you dance and that'sit.
So I saw a group of thesecollege-age students just
dancing in a parking structureand so I, my friends and I just
kind of stood there and they sawus and so they came over,
introduced themselves, explainedeverything and I was like, oh
wow, that's so cool, that's likereally tight, I would love to
do that and it looks likeeveryone's having fun,
everyone's like tight with eachother.
That's community, and so Istarted investing a lot of time

(09:16):
into dance throughout, like myuniversity years.
I took a step back from thatwhen I moved to Asia, just
because I found that the danceculture that we have here is
very different from the danceculture they have over there,
and so what I ended up doing wasreinvesting a lot of my time
into singing.
So I was training with acompany in Thailand, I tried out

(09:36):
some things in Korea, not muchin Japan.
That was on me, I didn't reallyresearch, and then, after I
moved back to the US, took abreak from everything because of
COVID.
But post-COVID I kind ofstarted running at both with,
whatever the saying goes,jumping into the deep end, you
know.

J.R. (09:57):
Cool.
So then, so you were trying outthese new things, so you
mentioned singing and dancing.
You were also.
You were in like a graduateprogram too, right?

Aeden (10:06):
Yes, like a master's program.

J.R. (10:07):
Yes, and so I mean we'll go into a lot of this stuff too,
maybe a little bit at a time.
But so how did you?
What was your approach at that?
I know you mentioned you werelooking for feedback and kind of
guidance and mentorship and youhad all these different
interests.
Do you have any takeaways on,like, your approach there?
What did you get out of that?
Or what was the intent, whatwas your purpose of trying to,
like, you know, doing all this?

(10:28):
Or is that just kind of yourmind?
You're just like oh, I justlike doing different things.

Aeden (10:32):
I do like doing different things.
I think my intention originallyaround asking for feedback was
to please people, because I wasso disconnected and I had such a
strong desire to want to bewanted or to want to be invited,
to be around or to beappreciated, to be recognized.

(10:52):
My desire for feedback was thatit's just just tell me what do I
need to do so that you wouldwant me here, so that someone
else would want me here, so thatI could feel like I belong here
, want me here so that I couldfeel like I belong here.
And I think, over time, as Ibecame more self-aware and
self-reflective of what some ofthese root causes were or what
was pushing me to act this way,I started to make a pivot right.

(11:15):
So as I came into my adulthood,it more fueled my desire to be
a better contributor.
So it's me coming into thisspace not necessarily asking
what can I do so that peoplewill like me, but what can I do
to contribute to this space, tohelp the space to grow, to
improve whatever systems arealready in place or maybe just

(11:37):
improve the vibe?
And I think feedback has beenvery critical in allowing me to
continuously stay adaptable.

J.R. (11:48):
Nice.
There's a lot of differentthreads there and I feel like
we're going to get to some ofthose a little bit later in the
later topics, but I like that sofar.
One question I had is beingoverseas.
I'm sure that was an amazingexperience culturally, and also
educationally and socially aswell.
Were there any standouttakeaways or kind of like how

(12:09):
being abroad has changed you orinsights that you've learned
that you feel like other peoplecould benefit from?

Aeden (12:15):
I'm sure that can go really deep, but I guess, any
like that at you know surfacelevel stuff that you can touch
on first and we'll see yeah, Ithink the biggest takeaway that
I got first when I moved abroadwas just do the thing.
And that came because Irealized if people were doing
things and I wanted to do it,but they don't want to do it a
second time, if I waited I wouldnever do it, and so I pushed

(12:41):
myself to just do what I wantedto do.
When I moved to Thailand, oneof the things that I knew I
wanted to do right away waslearn Thai, because I was like
sure, I'm in Bangkok, so thereare probably English speakers,
there are probably people whocan help me out, but is that how
I want to be living my lifewhile I'm here?
And so I did research.

(13:03):
I found a school, I studied andwithin about six months I was
conversationally fluent.
Wow, to a point where I thinkpeople were like oh, are you
like?
like mixed yeah are you mixed,did you like?
Go to an international schooland use English, mostly because
your Thai is usable, but it'slike your pronunciation is

(13:24):
strange.
So yeah, I think just really dothings is my big takeaway from
living abroad.

J.R. (13:33):
I like that and I feel like that's a common thread
Again, like knowing you and usbeing closer friends.
Now I feel like one thing thatI admire about you is like you
actually do the things thatyou're interested in, even if
it's all scattered and whatnot.
but I feel like the problem alot of people do is that they
don't just try enough things toreally feel like what resonates
with them and that's why theyget stuck with what they're
doing and they're not feelingfulfilled, but I do appreciate

(13:54):
that you were like oh, thatsounds interesting, yeah, let's
just do it.
And then you just go for it.
Anything else that you wouldsay you learned abroad that kind
of affected your currenttrajectory and or anything you
can link to your aspirationslike career wise.

Aeden (14:06):
I know that's another big can of worms we can open, but I
would say another big takeawayis to not be afraid,
specifically not be afraid to bewrong.
I think, especially as I wasliving in Thailand, japan, korea
, some of the things that Ifeared at first was, like I

(14:27):
don't want to have a culturalmisstep.
It's hard because I look Asianand so when I'm there they
expect me to know.
Or sometimes, if I'm likewalking around Korea and I don't
understand Korean, they'll yellat me.
They're like why don't youunderstand?
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry, I'm new, I'm here soI think it was hard to feel like

(14:50):
the pressure of you have to beperfect, you have to be ready
and not be there, and so I hadto work on myself in the way
that I viewed myself, to letmyself know and remind myself
constantly like it's okay to bewrong, it's okay for people to
be mad at me or to be frustratedwith me because I don't get it.

(15:10):
What's more important is that Iam adaptable and I adjust to
what I can when I can.
So if I don't know it now now,I'll know it for next time.
But the fear that I feel cominginto that should not prevent me
from doing things or beingprepared to come forward.

J.R. (15:30):
Yeah.
I like that.
Okay, I guess anything else Doyou want to touch on?
Anything about, like careeraspirations or like how your
journey up until now hasinformed what you want to do,
how your journey up until nowhas informed what you want to do
, maybe not as a career, butmaybe just your purpose or
something that you're passionateabout.
That you want to go all in on,because I know there's a lot of
things you like doing and I knowyou have a career and I know

(15:52):
you have career aspirations justknowing you personally.
But is there anything that'slike?
Okay, here's my aspiration,career-wise, or even just
purpose-wise?

Aeden (16:05):
maybe it's not a career, but maybe it's just a purpose.
Do you have anything like that?
Yeah, I think when it comes tocareer, early on I felt this, I
think, society-based pressure tochoose one and stick with one
and then run with it for like 50years until I retire and or die
50, 100, or 200 years Exactly,and I found that because my
interests are so disparatethey're so all over the board

(16:26):
that it's okay for me to hop.
And I came to terms with thatwhen I realized, okay, I've
touched three or four differentindustries and I haven't really
settled in anything, but I dolove them all.
So do I have to pick?
And I think that's when I ranup against that social pressure
and I realized who says I haveto right?

(16:48):
Who says we need to just settlewith one job or one industry?
If I want to do one and then Iwant to swap later, who's
stopping me?
Sure, I might have to startover, but isn't that the fun
part of starting a new project?
Right like beginning.
So that was one.
But I do think that a lot of thethings that I've learned in the
past have driven me to be moreambitious when I enter an

(17:11):
industry.
So, for example, I am prettynew to project management and I
only got into it because, one, Italked to you about it and two,
because I was in a position atwork where it was pretty
stagnant, nothing was changing,and I wanted, quite honestly,

(17:31):
more money.
And in order to get more money,I would need a new title.
And so I approached my managerand I was like what titles can
we look at that will pay mebetter and what can I do to get
from here to there, asking theright questions, yeah.
And so I was like, okay, great,I got the certification, I have
the years, now Can I get thetitle and can I get the money?
And then, after I got it, I waslike what's next?

(17:52):
Right, so what can I do to keepgrowing and keep developing?
I think that sort of gung-hoattitude was fostered by my
experience abroad throughgraduate school, like you
mentioned before.
In graduate school,specifically, like my advisory
committee was very relaxed.
The only times I ever saw themwas when I scheduled with them

(18:14):
or when I pushed for them tomeet with me.
The only reason I had mydefense states was because I set
them myself and then I had theprogram follow up with the
professors to make sure theywould show up.
So that sort of initiative, Ithink, has been integral to my
career moving at all.

J.R. (18:32):
Yeah, definitely.
I think that's a common threadthat, as a outsider, as a friend
, that I think people can learnfrom, is that initiative that
you take to kind of?
Move your career or youraspirations in the direction
that you want, because I did asimilar thing too, which was
like okay, I know where I wantto be, I want to have a high
position, to make more money orwhatever, and then the jumps

(18:53):
that we made through projectmanagement, I think
significantly increased ourincome.
We don't have to talk aboutnumbers, but it's oh this is
very nice, you know this is anice jump For me personally I
will say, like when I went frombefore project management and
then getting more serious aboutit, like it literally doubled my
income and so that's like a bigROI and I think that mindset
that you have is something thatpeople can ask those tough

(19:16):
questions and be vulnerable andget coaching.

Aeden (19:18):
It can pay off a lot, yeah, and I would even add that,
if anybody is interested,listen to JR.
That's my big advice, because,yeah, like, even within the past
couple months, I have alsodoubled my income in my work in
project management.

J.R. (19:36):
And so we love money.

Aeden (19:37):
Yeah, you know, we love making money, we love making
ends meet and being able to thenturn that resource around and
fund our friends, fund ourcommunity, fund our interests,
of course.
So shout out yeah definitely.

J.R. (19:49):
So, yeah, before we switch off of that, there's one thing
I wanted to talk about.
Actually, you know what?
I think we're fine there.
That was all gold.
Okay, let's go.
Actually, this is kind of notreally a pivot we're already
talking about this but theimportance of coaching and
feedback is the next topic thatI want to talk about.
I would say the initialquestion is what is the
importance of coaching that hasthat it has in your life?
Like, what role did it play andwhat makes you want to seek out

(20:10):
coaching?
I know you mentioned justearlier that it's like that,
that need to please people, butI know some of it is also like
your own inherent desire toimprove and then to achieve
right, like it's that inherentdesire to become better.
Was there anything else in themix of that that made you seek
out coaching or feedback, orjust that mindset?

Aeden (20:29):
I was thinking about this a little bit earlier in the
week and I actually don't knowwhere that desire came from.
I think, like I said before, itwas rooted in like a desire of
wanting to feel accepted,wanting to feel seen, and
perhaps it's overlaid withlooking for the authority figure
in the space to recognize me,because that, in my mind, as an

(20:51):
asian right, has more value.
Right it's?
Oh my gosh, the authorityfigure likes me like I'm doing
great, you know.
So I think that's probablywhere it was first planted, and
then I started seeing thebenefits of actually tapping
into that resource.
Looking to the person who hasexperience or who has authority

(21:12):
or who has skill in that space,someone who everyone else looks
up to, looking to them and thengetting feedback from them, has
proven to be invaluable.

J.R. (21:24):
I totally agree.
I feel, like in any area inlife that you want to grow in or
shortcut the process and notbang your head against the wall,
definitely find a coach or amentor or someone who is where
you want to be, has the resultsand is able to teach you,
because there are people whohave the results but they're not
good at teaching.
And then vice versa, like maybeyou're a good teacher, but I

(21:49):
also question if you don't havethe results yourself absolutely.
And so, like finances, fitnesswe did for comedy, you know what
I mean all this other stuffsuper valuable and then like
career wise and everything elsein between, if you want better
results, you know you can justask, but sometimes it's.
I feel like I don't know if youhave a thought about this, but
there's something that holdspeople back.
I think it's just ego, or egoor just like pride, I guess.

Aeden (22:07):
Absolutely.
I think one of the things thathas really served me in this
process is always humblingmyself.
Something that I've told folksbefore is I would much rather be
the weakest person in the roomthan the strongest, and that's
because, being the weakestperson, I have practically

(22:28):
unlimited opportunities forgrowth.
Everyone in the room can teachme.
Everyone in the room hassomething that I can learn from.
If I'm the strongest now, itputs pressure on me to be the
one to lead, to be the one toteach and mentor and hand that
off, which I think is a greatchallenge and a great
opportunity, great experience.

J.R. (22:45):
But it's definitely different from being the person
in the room who gets to learn,and I think that's what excites
me about starting new projectsor shifting into new industries
it's unlimited potential,unlimited opportunity yeah I've
said that in an interview oncewhere I forgot how the question
goes, but my answer wasbasically like I would rather be
like the quote-unquote dumbestperson in the room because I

(23:06):
know I'm in the right room.
If I feel like I'm the smartestperson in the room, I'm
definitely in the wrong room.
Right, because you don't wantto.
Be sure, as the smartest personin the room, you will probably
get paid a lot.
However, you will not learn andyou will not grow into the
person that you need to become.
And also, being on likecompetitive teams or even in my
current team, where some of the,let's say, the less experienced
people feel very demotivatedthat everyone's better than them

(23:28):
and, aside from the fact thatobviously those people have been
putting in the work, so ofcourse they're going to be
better.
But I always tell those newpeople that if you feel like
you're the worst person in thisroom, it's you're in the right
place, because that's how youget better, and I'm assuming
your goal is to get better, notto be the best.
But to get better and so,therefore, you see that as a as
a sign that you are in the placeyou're supposed to be yeah,

(23:49):
agreed, and I definitelystruggle with those thoughts as
well.

Aeden (23:52):
Right, it's.
Sometimes I'm like, okay, I'vebeen the worst in this room for
quite some time okay.

J.R. (23:57):
I'm kind of tired of being the worst in the room.
Now, when's it time for me tobump up a ranking?

Aeden (24:01):
yeah, you know, can know, can I be like second worst?

J.R. (24:03):
You know Some sort of improvement.

Aeden (24:06):
Yeah, exactly, and I think it's okay to feel that way
.
Right, it's the adaptability,the importance of recognizing.
You know, I'm feeling shittytoday, I'm feeling poopy.
Let's feel bad for a minute andthen now let's use that as
motivation.

J.R. (24:26):
Let's like turn that around and get this car going.
You know, yeah, definitely anymore takeaways from like
coaching, feedback or any goodstories that you feel like stand
out to you.
That was really a shift in yourmindset or how you see things
oh, so many.

Aeden (24:36):
Oh, I have so, so many.
I think there was this one timewhen I was with my vocal coach
and two other students and thethree of us were working on a
harmony together and he wouldcut us off like three notes in
and then point at me and he'slike you are fucking it up, you
are the problem.
Start again and don't fuck upthis time.

(24:58):
And I was like, okay, okay,I'll do my best, but obviously
right, like when you get intothat headspace, you're shutting
down.
Do my best, but obviously right, like when you get into that
headspace, you're shutting down.
You're not like responsive,you're not as adaptable.
And he kept doing it and hekept doing it and he kept doing
it.
And so, about an hour in, I waslike can I get one moment
please?

(25:18):
And then I stepped out and likesobbed and I was like, oh my
God, I'm so awful.
I was like, oh my god, I'm soawful.
I was like, okay, but we stillhave a full session of ahead of
us.
I cried for two minutes.
I was like, okay, that's awaste of two minutes, but not
really because that two minutesallowing me to process through
my emotions, right.
I was like okay, great, I'mgonna go back in, I'm gonna be

(25:40):
productive and we're gonna getthis done.
Great, we were not productive,but I think it was a useful
learning experience, because hedid talk to me about it
afterwards.
He's like okay, so this isnormally pressure for you to
learn how to handle pressure orhandle negative emotions in a
space in which you still need toget work done.

(26:11):
And he was like very clearly,you shut down.
And I was like yes, absolutely.
And he's great, now that weknow that you shut down, or like
we know where you shut down orwhy you shut down, what can we
do to start addressing it?
What can we do to startfiguring out how to get you
through this space?
And part of it was the way thatI was talking to myself and he

(26:33):
had said sure, I was sayingyou're fucking it up, but how
are you taking that?
Because if you're taking thatas oh yeah, you're right, I'm
fucking it up, you're puttingyourself down, you are not
meeting the obstacle withintention and strength and like
purpose, you are letting itsteamroll you.
And so he's like when I come atyou like that, when I say

(26:54):
you're fucking it up, you needto be like all right, I'm gonna
show you that I'm not likeyou're wrong, I'm not the one
who's wrong here and he's likeyeah, that's the energy.
You need to come at it withright, like when people are
negative with you.
You need to bring back morepositivity, more energy, and I
was like, oh damn, I neverthought about that.

(27:14):
I was just like I thought I wassupposed to be steamrolled.
I thought I was supposed to cryyeah.
I'm supposed to feel bad, right,and he's like well, you could
but like yeah.
What does that do for you?
Who benefits?
Who here benefits from that?
Including yourself?
No one, right.
But if you come back with vigor, right, and you do, even better

(27:34):
, who's gonna yell at you?
Now, no one can talk to youthat way, because now they know
that if they present you achallenge, you're going to
overcome it no matter what.
And I was like, damn, that wasgood.
And he has this really trippyway of always connecting all of
our lessons and it kind ofpisses me off because I was like

(27:55):
dude, how did I not see this?
But he connected it to a laterlesson where he asked me to
listen to other people performand then provide feedback.
And I was like, oh, my god,that was so great guys, you guys
sound awesome.
And he's like okay, that wasthe shittiest feedback I've ever
heard, dude.
And I was like I don't know,you could fix this, I don't know
.
And then he was like so thereason why you have your

(28:17):
feedback is so fluffy is becausein your head, you're afraid of
being the asshole, becausethat's how you talk to yourself.
So when you mess up and you'relike, fuck, I fucked up, that's
the exact same intention thatyou're approaching other people
with.
And so when you hear somethingthat you don't like, your brain
even though you might not saythis right, your brain will say,

(28:38):
oh, they fucked up.
And that's why, when people askyou to vocalize it, you can't
because you don't want to be theasshole.
So to fix that, be moreintentional with your feedback
with others.
And he gave me this formulawhere he said okay, you start
with your highlight and youstart with your areas of
improvement.
This entire thing is feedback.
You have to do both.

(28:58):
If you don't do both, it is notfeedback.
And when you provide this, youhave to be specific.
So it can't just be oh, thatwas awesome, it has to be like.
I liked how, in this part of thesong, you did this, because it
made me feel this.
What I think I would like foryou to try in the second half is
to do this so it changes theenergy, so that level of

(29:20):
intention shows consideration,right intent.
So I'm not just listening, I'mlike paying attention.
And as I got better atpracticing this for others,
eventually it trickled back tohow I was talking to myself.
So in my own practices I nowhave a healthier way of

(29:40):
approaching like, oh, thatdidn't sound the way that I
liked it, how I would have likedit to sound.
So what can I do to adjust itVersus?
Ah, fuck, I suck, somebody killme.
Oh my God, I'm going to quit,I'm over it.
So I think that's been some ofthe most helpful coaching things
I've had.
It's like really looking at howwe engage with ourselves, with

(30:02):
others, and allowing the two toconnect and then recognizing how
the one impacts the other.

J.R. (30:11):
I like that.
I think that's a well, that wasamazing.
Rewind that part if you need it.
That's like feedback, it's Idon't know.
I feel like that was amasterclass in like feedback and
how to give it.
I think that transitionsperfectly into the next topic,
which is like therapy.
However, I remember my oldquestion, which was we'll go
back to career real quick andthen we'll go back to the topic
number three, but my questionfor you is you know, working in

(30:33):
all of these different fieldsand also with your different
interests and your differentexperiences abroad and education
Are there any things?
Like you said, you know I canwork in any industry, or just
having experience, but are thereany common threads that you
feel like we have woven throughall those things?
That connects you to what youthink you are good at Because

(30:54):
you've worked in theseindustries?
And I'm asking this because,also, I know you as a friend and
I kind of know the answer, orat least I have an answer in my
head, but yours could bedifferent.
But do you feel like there's acommon thread for all those
things that like, okay, I'vedone all these different jobs
and careers, but my higher thingis probably the thing that
connects all those things isclearly it's what I'm drawn to
or it's the thing that's acommon denominator.

Aeden (31:14):
I have considered this as well, just because, back when I
was wondering about like, oh myGod, do I have to pick one job?
I was like, okay, what tieseverything together?
Let's just do that.
And I believe that the thing Istrive for, no matter what
industry I'm in or no matterwhat hobby I pick up or activity
I'm trying to do the one thingthat drives me is optimization

(31:38):
and efficiency.
I don't like waste, I don't likewasting my time, I don't like
wasting my money and I don'tlike wasting my energy.
And so if I'm going to doanything, I'm going to make sure
that it is giving me the mostthat I can get out of it.
And I also strongly believethat anything you put into a
thing, it will come back to youtenfold, right?
So if I'm investing all thistime, energy, into my work, it's

(32:00):
going to give me back dividends, like the ROI is always great,
so there's no reason to not givemore.
Yeah, so, no matter what I do,right?
So even in service, I'm likeokay, I can make this process
more efficient.
I can line up how I'm likegreeting guests, seating guests,
taking their orders.

(32:20):
How can I do this in a way thatis most efficient and effective
, so that I'm getting people in,allowing them to have a great
time and then getting them out,and I think this has proven to
be extremely helpful in myproject management work.
I'll get a process and I'lllook at it.
I'll find points that I canimprove or points that I don't
understand, and dig into it more.

(32:42):
It's like why do we do it thisway?
Why not this way?
Oh, okay, that doesn't work.
Great, now I have a betterunderstanding of the system.
If we can make that change,let's make it.
Why didn't we make it sooner?
And that has led to a number ofmy co-workers being like how
did we never think of this?
You know something as simple aslike why don't we just
alphabetize our finance reportsso we can find our clients

(33:05):
quicker?
And the finance department waslike oh, we never thought of
that.
I was like that's great, wehave a solution now.
Right, like solutions problemswe didn't know we had.
And I think that carries overinto my artistry as well.
Right, so singing, dancing ifI'm gonna sing and I'm in a
recording session, I'm gonnamake sure that I get the most

(33:26):
out of this recording sessionthat I can.
I'm not going to spend 30minutes crying about it.
Because that's 30 minuteswasted, I will cry for two
minutes.

J.R. (33:32):
That's not optimized at all.

Aeden (33:36):
Shorten the crying period so you can lengthen the
productivity.

J.R. (33:40):
Nice, I like that.
I think that's one of thethings I respect about you a lot
, and also the reason why Ithink we vibe well is because I
also think that way likeoptimization, reducing waste.
As project managers, we kind ofsee like the overarching
structure and how to makeprocesses more efficient,
because I feel like that justit's a tide that rise, a rising
tide that lifts all boats, andso since we think similar, that

(34:01):
way, I think that's why we getalong really well.
And I think also, like in anyfuture aspirations that you have
in your career, if you were todo some sort of business,
consulting, I feel like you'd bereally good at it.
Thank, you Because in any jobthat you do.
I feel like you thrive in thatsort of role to make things
better for everyone.
I feel like it's a huge valueadd.
Thank you.
All right.
Topic number three.
So therapy I lot and you talkabout this in your comedy as

(34:24):
well, which I really enjoy.
We're probably not going tocover stand-up comedy in this
episode, maybe in the future onebut that's one thing I love
talking about because it's somuch fun.
Quick side note it's what's itcalled.
So, Aeden will, we'll talk.
Okay, there's last, the laststand-up we did.
Right, a lot of my stuff islike asian jokes because that's
just kind of what I wanted totalk about, right.
But then, and usually you'lltalk about therapy or like gay

(34:47):
jokes or something like that,and then, but you went first and
then you told all these Asianjokes and I'm like all right,
guys, when I got up I was likeall right, Aeden told all the
Asian jokes, I'm going to tellthe gay jokes now.
And you recorded my video forthat.
You were just dying.
And I was like, yes, I got onelaugh, it's worth it.

Aeden (35:04):
Oh, definitely more than one, but I was several of them
Nice, so anyways.

J.R. (35:12):
So the topic of therapy I feel like this is something that
you know a lot of people canbenefit from, a lot of people
that we know have therapy, andit's kind of like a version of
coaching, of improvement,feedback.
I guess my question is likewhat made you want to seek out
therapy?

Aeden (35:32):
And I guess what are some of the biggest insights or
takeaways that you learned aboutyourself, or like the skills or
tools that you've learnedthrough therapy to help you
manage whatever you're goingthrough?
Good questions.
Growing up, I was quite withmyself, with my family, my
situation, whatever.
I always found something to beextremely unhappy about.
And so at some point in myearly university years, my mom

(35:54):
approached me and she's like canI get you a therapist?
And I was like you're payingright?
Because, if you are, then yes,please.
I was like, yeah, that's justadded value for me, right?
I don't spend anything and Iget therapy.
We love it, you know.
And I started off with atherapist that I was like very
about.
She was mostly sounding board,so anything I said she would say

(36:14):
back and I was like, yeah, youknow, I don't know, I think it's
hard to talk to my parents.
And she's like so it's hard totalk to your parents.
And I was like, yes, I justsaid that.
And I was with her for maybe ayear, a year and a half, and
then I finally stopped seeingher.
But at that point I was likeyou know what?
I think I'm gonna try to find atherapist that works for me

(36:34):
like she.
She might work for other peopleand that's great for them, but
I need to find someone who worksfor me and so I was
specifically trying to find,like a queer, asian, american.
And that's hard because wedon't have a very expensive
network to like market diversetherapists right, it's go to
better help or whatever.
Don't actually, but I hope it'sbad for therapists.

(36:57):
But I put out an APB and then Ihad friends reach out who's like
oh well, I'm seeing this Asianwoman and I think she's great
and I have now been with thattherapist for years, years,
years, years, years.
I feel like it's maybe five orsix years now and I love her.
I love her.

(37:18):
I see her every week andthrough my therapy experiences.
So the first therapist she waslike oh yeah, you dude, you're
like super depressed and superanxiety.
So here's some meds, just takeit.
I was like okay, chill, nice, Iyeah you know, we love drugs.
Can we say that one second?

J.R. (37:39):
you guys can hear tone right.
That's called sarcasm.

Aeden (37:43):
Oh my lord so stand-up comedy, y'all a joke.

J.R. (37:46):
Yeah, we're all just joking.

Aeden (37:48):
For legal purposes.
This is a joke.

J.R. (37:50):
We're all just joking.
Also, I'm never going to getthat BetterHelp sponsorship.
Thanks, man, I'm so sorry, Idon't care.

Aeden (37:57):
Yeah, so I was on medication for a while, but my
mother is a nurse and so herrecommendation is to try to get
off medication as soon aspossible, because she's like you
know, adding all these extrachemicals to your body all the
time isn't great.
You're like your body is meantto operate naturally, so use it
if you need it, but don't becomereliant upon it.

(38:17):
And I was like okay, great.
She also said the ssris werenegatively impacting our health
insurance.
So she's like get off of itbecause it's making the
insurance expensive.
And I I was like tight, greatto know.
But that's when I startedgetting a lot more into this
self-reflective state.
Being able to work with mynewer and now current therapist.

(38:39):
She really pushes me for a lotof introspection, so I'll talk
to her about.
Oh yeah, this is what I'mfeeling, this is what I think,
and she's like okay, but why?
And I was like what do you mean?
Why?
And she's like I don't know.
You said you're irritated.
Why are you irritated?
And I was like I don't know.

(39:00):
It's just I don't like it whenpeople do this.
She's like you don't like whenpeople do that, for why?
And really pushing that whyforced me to face some issues
that I had not considered before, or issues that I had been
trying to ignore, and the nicething about that is now I'm

(39:20):
starting to see the connectivetissue between a lot of the
things that I run into.
This behavior pisses me offacross the board, why?
Oh, it's all tied back to how Iperceive my value as an
individual, and now I feel likeeveryone's poking it, and
therefore, if I want to resolvethis issue, I have to focus on

(39:41):
how I interpret my value, and Ithink that sort of digging to
the root cause is something thatis so invaluable from a
therapist.
People are really in the weedswhen it comes to their emotions,
their experiences andperspectives, and I think the
value that you can get from atherapist is an outsider

(40:03):
perspective, from someone thatone you can trust trust, but two
can also know you intimatelywithout knowing you right,
because I could talk to you.
But there's this connectionthat we have that now tints the
way that either you perceiveinformation I share you or I
perceive information that youshare me, and that's something

(40:24):
that I don't have to worry with.
About my therapist, I can tellher my entire life story and
still be like but we're notfriends, and that's the
professional line of therapythat allows you to be able to
poke these holes in each otherand still be okay.
I think it would hurt me ifsomething like a best friend was
just like have you consideredyou're the problem, and I was

(40:47):
like, okay, back up, that's notwhat I'm here for, versus my
therapist is like okay, I thinkit's you like, yeah, the in this
situation it sounds like youare the problem.

J.R. (40:58):
It's not personal, but it's like they're actual
professional, like they've beenlistening to you and that's what
they think.

Aeden (41:02):
The exactly yeah, and I think that's why it's so
important to find a therapistwho aligns with you and matches
with you.
My therapist laughs all thetime and I love it when she does
, because I was like, great,we're having a good time you
know I made you laugh yeah, Iwas like I'm so glad you're
laughing at my pain, likesomeone has to, in order for us
to optimize pain.

J.R. (41:20):
There you go, no and then use it for a stand-up comedy
material exactly, and that'ssomething I told my therapist as
well.

Aeden (41:26):
I was like okay, I need you to calm down, because the
better you are at your job, theworst I am at comedy, like I
have no content, oh no, yourlife sucks I know it's hi
everyone.
I'm here to do comedy my life'sgreat my life is great
relationships all right, awful,awful.
that's.
No one enjoys that, you knowexactly.
Yeah, so that's some of thestuff that I've gotten through

(41:48):
therapy, definitely likeintrospection, and because you
and I are both optimizers, we'realways looking for ways to
improve things.
It's a very mechanical approachfor me and the challenge that
my therapist has now is to tryto connect me on an emotional
level to these behaviors that Ihave or these habits that I have
.
One of the things that shelikes to remind me she an

(42:09):
emotional level to thesebehaviors that I have or these
habits that I have, one of thethings that she likes to remind
me.
She's like you're not a robot,you don't have to do it like
that.
And I was like what do you mean?
I do not understand.
Do not compute your advice.
Exactly, yeah, I'm like afrigging Cyberman, dalek type
thing.
It's just like eliminate,delete, delete.
Yeah, like a frigging Cyberman.

J.R. (42:29):
Dalek type thing.
It's just like eliminate,delete, delete.

Aeden (42:30):
Yeah my feelings are hurt .
Yeah, what are feelings Exactly?
So sometimes she'll say like,okay, you experience feelings
and we know this because you getfrustrated when you do, because
you want to be a robot but justfeel them, just try that.
Okay, you're feeling an emotion, sit with it for five minutes,
start with that, start with oneminute, if that's what your

(42:52):
capacity is at just sit withyour emotion and feel it.
Don't try to logic it, don'ttry to think your way through it
or process why through theemotion.
Just feel the emotion, allow itto breathe and then you can
work through it.
But if you're skipping thatpart and you're working through
it, then it's not doing for youwhat it's meant to do, which I

(43:14):
think is very the theme ofinside out one right, oh,
sadness, needs to feel somethingso you can move forward.
No, no, you know, it's fine, wedon't need to think about, and
I think that's what I have beendoing for a long time.
I like it, it.

J.R. (43:25):
And I like the movie reference too, because I think
both movies are very impactfulas like a metaphor for like how
we deal with our feelings andhow important they are, and it's
the importance of not trying tohide or suppress or push them
away.
I feel like it was prettyinvaluable takeaway.
Yeah, and.
I feel like when you're, asyou're talking about that, like
kind of like feeling youremotions and not being a robot,
I feel like as anotheranalytical type as well.

(43:46):
Sometimes I do that like I'llrespond to something that like
hits me emotionally with justlogic, and sometimes, if my
energy is just drained, I'm likeall right, well, I'm a computer
right now until I can getthrough the situation and then
handle it later on.
So sometimes if, let's say, Iget to a situation where
something hurts me emotionallyor someone says something, right
I would just turn it around andjust be logical.
I'm like, oh yeah, this is, thisis, and they're just like, oh,

(44:08):
he's not receptive to that.
And then all of a sudden I candeal with that later.
But I guess what I'm saying issometimes I feel like I do use
that as like a defense mechanismwhen I can't handle the emotion
in the moment.

Aeden (44:16):
But then you know, yeah, come back to it eventually
absolutely and I think that'ssomething I learned is come back
to it eventually, and thesooner the better.
Right, um, because my habit hasbeen to be like, oh you know,
I'll come back to it, and I justdon't, and it just piles and
piles and piles and piles, upuntil one day I just collapse
from the weight of everythingI've collected.
So it's definitely important totry to piecemeal it and come

(44:39):
back to it when you can, as soonas you can, so that you don't
collect it and then you knowyou'll be on that tv show
hoarders or something.
It's like what are you hoardingemotions?

J.R. (44:52):
emotions.
Yes, nice, I like it.
Um, okay, a quick on that notetoo.
Have you heard that sayingwhere it's like, you know, like
the life-changing magic oftidying up?
Maria condo, a big takeaway Igot from that was like the
reason why we have so much stuffand we hoard is an emotional
aspect.
Right, it's the fear of losingsomething, or the anxiety of not

(45:16):
having something you'll need inthe future yeah and so that's
why people become hoarders isbecause they feel like, oh no,
but I don't want to forget this,I don't want to lose this thing
, even though I don't realize,like, the significance of the
thing that they have is in theintent, not necessarily the
object, because not all objectswe have are functional.
It's just like a memorabilia,right, yeah?
or a gift that you just don'twant to throw away, but that
gift's intention was alreadycreated and you've received it,

(45:37):
so the physical thing is just athing, and then the anxiety over
the future is oh, but I need tokeep all these 10 different
things, because what if I needit tomorrow or in two years or
in 10 years?
And now you're just having realestate like stuff clutter your
house and that's just areflection of your emotional
state and my personal goal is tolike have as little things as
possible.
Obviously, we need functionalstuff, but I'm trying to get to

(45:58):
that point where I can become amonk and not have stuff, cause
I'm like the less stuff I have,the more happy I am, because I
know it's just a reflection ofmy mental clutter, but that's
just how I see it.
Anything else on therapy or biglessons or takeaways that you
feel like were impactful for you.

Aeden (46:14):
I will say I think the nice thing about therapy is like
many other things anything youtake from it is applicable to
other aspects in your life aswell, or like other fields in
your life.
So, for example, I went totherapy to work on myself, to
not be so unhappy all the time,and what that has led me to is

(46:36):
like clearer communication,stronger boundaries, better
relationships with people in myfamily.
I've learned to like navigatethings in ways that I hadn't
considered before, not becausetherapy told me to, but therapy
has given me tools to figure itout myself, or at least
highlighted for me tools that Ialready have.

J.R. (46:56):
And those things are really nice, Right.
It's definitely a goodinvestment of your time to learn
all those skills and share passalong too right.

Aeden (47:04):
Yeah definitely, as I therapize my family members.
Have you considered why are youtalking to me like this?

J.R. (47:13):
I like it.
You ready for rapid firequestions?
yes, sir all right.
On that note too, I forgot justto circle back.
You're like yeah, you know,therapists can tell you.
I think you're the problem.
Friends, I'll take itpersonally.

Aeden (47:22):
I've told you you're the problem, like directly, like
many times yeah, and honestly, Ithink that's one of the nice
things about where my mindsethas grown.
I think I've gotten to a placewhere I want people to point
that out to me.

J.R. (47:35):
The testament to your growth and yeah.

Aeden (47:38):
I think, as we were talking about before, like
there's this ego and this feararound, like being wrong or not
being good enough, and I haveworked on trying to relocate
that emotional home instead ofbeing there to be in a space of
no, like it's okay to be wrongand, honestly, if anything, it's
better to be wrong because thatgives you an opportunity to
grow and if someone is willingto tell you that, that means

(47:59):
they trust you and that means somuch more to me than someone
being like oh no, you're good,it's fine.

J.R. (48:04):
Yeah, like lying to your face or just giving you the
sugar coated.
Yeah, yeah, it's totally fine.
Okay, cool, I don't want to runtoo over, but let's go
billboard question.
So if you could put up a signfor millions of people to see,
what would it say?

Aeden (48:17):
If you are right, you can gloat, if you are wrong, you
can grow.
Thank you, it took me a minuteto craft that one.
I was like wait, how do I?

J.R. (48:24):
Yeah, it's like a saying that we all know, or it's like
an idea we all know, but I likethe way you worded it.

Aeden (48:29):
Thank you.

J.R. (48:30):
What is one of the hardest challenges you face in your
life?
What did you learn from it?

Aeden (48:35):
I would say, fixing my relationship with my mother.
We've had a very like, rockyrelationship, so in the
beginning it was very likeidolizing, vitalizing.
My mother could do no wrong.
She's perfect.
I want to be her.
And then it flipped when Irealized that she didn't trust
me the way that I trust her, andthen it was like I don't want
to be anything like her.
But at this point it's a littletoo late, because I spent two
decades trying to be here andthen eventually we found balance

(48:58):
through that process.
That's when I learned how toapply my therapy and a lot of my
coaching.
And, oh, how can I learn tocommunicate with this person,
this person who has like alifetime of experience and has
gone through things that I won'tgo through?
Right?
How do I take what she'stelling me, process it and

(49:20):
respond with my own opinions andperspectives, but in a way that
she can understand?
And if?
If she doesn't, what can we dotogether to move forward?
And I think that's been aninvaluable tool for me to now
expand to other relationships inmy life.

J.R. (49:35):
I love it and also you know your relationship with your
mom is like one of your mostimportant ones.
Of course, you want to fix thatand make that stronger, right
yeah, it's great Self-inflictedwound.

Aeden (49:51):
Do you have a story about something that's gone wrong in
your life that's your own faultand you can't blame anyone else?
Oh, so many, so so many.
One, maybe two.
This one was real dumb of me.
When I first moved to england, Igot a credit card and I was
like, oh, okay, cool, so I knowhow this works.
You put you like you charge onthe card and then you pay it off
tight, but I was clearlycharging more than I was paying
off and I didn't understand theconcept of like deadlines for
credit cards or like a creditlimit.

(50:12):
And so I bought a ticket toBarcelona and I couldn't buy a
ticket back and I was like, whyis my card not working?
And so I had to do aninternational call back home to
my parents and I was like, yeah,the weirdest thing, like it was
was working fine, and then nowit's not working, like I don't
understand.
And my dad was like, let mecheck.

(50:34):
Oh, you hit the credit limit.
And I was like there's a limitwhat I thought yeah, I thought
it was mean girls.
You know, like the limit doesnot exist, but apparently it
doesn't.
Apparently it was not highbecause this was my first credit
card and I was still in uni.
So I'm very fortunate to haveparents who are willing to

(50:54):
support me.
My dad was like, okay, I'mgonna get you a ticket back.

J.R. (50:57):
But you need to tighten this ship.
Yeah, nice.
Well, great place to learn itin another country, oof rip me
with like potentially not beingable to get home, all right.
If you could redo one thing,what would you do differently?

Aeden (51:12):
Oh man, I have a lot of regrets and I think that's how
I've learned.
So sometimes I think aboutwanting to redo them, but I
appreciate that I am who I am in.
My mindset is what it isbecause of them.
No-transcript.

(51:32):
More self-awareness at anearlier age so that I can be
more aware of, like, why myemotions were processing.
They were processing why I wasfeeling the way I was feeling
and communicate it more clearly.
For the first two decades of mylife, I think I was very
belligerent and my family didn'tknow what to do with me because
they could never figure out,like, why he's like, why do you
feel like this?

(51:52):
Or like, why are you actinglike this?
We don't understand.

J.R. (51:55):
And I was like you just you know, you just don't get it,
and you didn't even knowyourself.
Yeah, I don't even know why.

Aeden (52:02):
I'm like it was like I didn't get it and I think that
was the problem.
So if I could change anything,that's, I think, what I would
like to have changed nice okay,similar vein.

J.R. (52:10):
If you could give your younger self advice, any age,
any time period, what would itbe?

Aeden (52:15):
I would say don't wait for people to give you purpose.
Give yourself purpose.
Don't look to receive valuefrom other people.
Find value in yourself.
And I think the unfortunatenature of the american education
system is they teach you to begood rule followers, good
instruction followers, goodfactory workers.
And so we, by the time we getinto university, we're pretty

(52:38):
locked out of a lot of theadaptability and creativity that
is inherently born into a lotof us.
So I definitely got into pointsof my life where I was like, if
you tell me what to do, I willbe excellent at it, but you have
to tell me what to do and agreat factory worker exactly,
and I think that prevented mefrom developing a lot earlier or
learning a lot of the thingsthat I had to learn much later

(53:00):
in my life.
That's the advice I would havegiven myself don't wait, just do
yeah, I like that a lot.

J.R. (53:05):
I see that as a side tangent, like my little brother.
He just turned 14 I think 13 or14 and he's a really
rambunctious, creative kid and Ialways tell him and my parents,
I'm like okay, look like schoolis going to teach you how to be
a good worker right, and that'sgreat.
But daniel, my brother, is likea really creative kid and I'm
like try to protect thatcreativity and like that sort of

(53:25):
eye of like you know how heapproaches the world, because
he's a very creative person,like genuinely, because like
school is going to force youinto this sort of track and like
to think this way show up ontime and all this stuff which is
fine.
You know, do your best and don'tslack off, but also realize
that there is school.
Doesn't value like that sort ofcreative mind aspect as much,
or like figuring yourself out asmuch, as if you do figure that

(53:48):
out, you'll be like leaguesahead of everyone else who's
just trying to show up on timeand follow their work and then,
once you graduate, find your jobor whatever.
It's like you.

Aeden (53:56):
You're gonna be like much better off for that yeah, and
it's ironic because once you getout of school, then what they
want is your critical thinking.
Yeah exactly.
That's not what we learned,yeah they're like we don't want
factory workers at this pointlike to get further in your
career.
We want you to be creative, andso I think it's very
interesting that it's it on youafterwards, exactly All right.

J.R. (54:17):
Next question In the last few years, what new belief,
behavior or habit has improvedyour life?

Aeden (54:23):
Listening, I know it seems obvious.
I'm glad you started listeningI know it's real, it's real hard
You're going through life justlike this, Like hello what.
Absolutely 100%.
That's something I learned frommy vocal coach, because he
would give me new songs and thenhe would say, okay, learn this,
sing this.
And then I would sing it andhe's like, did you even listen

(54:45):
to this song?
And I was like, I don't thinkyou're hearing the same song.

J.R. (54:47):
I am because that was yeah , it was just like dude?

Aeden (54:50):
yeah, of course I did, and he's like then why don't you
know how it goes?
And so he had startedworkshopping with me.
It's about how to listen, notjust like listening for oh, what
am I listening for?
Notes, okay, great, melody,great, whatever.
No, it's like looking forintention, right, like purpose,
design, and listening withoutthinking first.

(55:14):
And I think that's somethingthat's hard for me because,
especially as an optimizer, mybrain's always okay.
I hear what can I do?
What can I do, what?
can I do Going to solutionExactly so, like waiting for the
input and figuring it outExactly, and so one of the
things that he has emphasizedfor me is like listen first and
then take time to think, thenyou can respond.
But if you're hanging on to aresponse while you're listening,

(55:38):
you're not listening becauseyou're hanging on to that
response.
That's taking priority, it'ssucking up your capacity and
that is now preventing you fromactually hearing what the song
is doing and how you can movethrough it.
People have to listen first,and I was like, oh, that's
interesting.
And he's like this is true ofanything.
Like you're hanging out withpeople and everyone's like
clamoring to talk over eachother.
No one gets anything out of theexperience.

(55:59):
But you know, you get the mostvalue when you actually listen
to each other.
If someone's saying somethingand you make the eye contact and
you listen and you respond withintention, even if other people
are clamoring over you, thatone person will recognize that
you were listening and it'llhave impact.
And I was like, oh damn.
And he's like, yeah, that's howyou set the vibe, dude, like

(56:23):
you think you just walk into aroom and it's all.

J.R. (56:24):
Gucci, no, you gotta listen and I was like good point
, I mentioned this before, but Ifeel like your vocal coach and
I would be best friends, orsomething oh, he's filipino, so
he's right out there like havethat same brain yeah, there's,
the world needs more of us, butcool.
Next question, if you need, ohsorry, who would you call
successful and how do you definesuccess?

Aeden (56:44):
honestly, anyone who mentors me is someone I would
say is successful.
Anyone like my vocal coach,yourself.
And the reason why I say thatand the reason why I define
success is because for me,success is having intention and
purpose behind what you say youwill do and then doing it.
That sort of reliability to meis success.

(57:05):
So your goal can be as simpleas I want to cook more, and now
you cook more.
To me that's amazing.
A lot of people fail on thegoals that they set themselves,
whether big or small.
So if you can do a small goaland then succeed, great.
If you say I want to open acompany and now you cook more,
to me that's amazing.
A lot of people fail on thegoals that they set themselves,
whether big or small.
So if you can do a small goaland then succeed, great.
If you say I want to open acompany, I want to run this
business, and you work towardsit and eventually you get there,
that's also success and that'ssomething I aspire to that level

(57:30):
of reliability, of confidence,of saying I will do this and
then knowing that I will do itand I will get it done.
And not only that, but gettingit done to good quality.

J.R. (57:39):
The degree that you want to do it Exactly.

Aeden (57:42):
Optimize.

J.R. (57:43):
If you knew you couldn't fail, what would you try or what
would you be doing right now?

Aeden (57:57):
I think my selfish response is I would love to be
more of a performing artist.
I would love to sing more, Iwould love to dance more, but I
think what I actually would likeis to open a community space
like a cultural hub, where wehave food sourced by local
vendors, made by local folks,clothing, art books sourced by
local folks, and then we canhave cafe days, work sessions,
board game nights, but also astage or a community space where

(58:19):
people can performance, exactly.
So, oh, we have open mics or wehave like little community
shows put on and you don't haveto pay to be here.
If you want to pay for stuff,great, right, pay for local
vendors.
Like you want to pay for thisperson who made a t-shirt in
their bedroom, right, like great, pay them, right.
Um, but you don't have to pay tobe here, whereas some spaces I

(58:42):
know it's oh, like restroom forcustomers only I totally get it,
but I think that's oppositionalto the energy of a community
that I would want to build, andso that's the kind of space that
I would love to see and love tobe a part of.
Yeah, I love it.

J.R. (58:57):
We talked about this before, but we have similar
goals, aspirations, because Ialso do want to run a cafe, own
it, and not as like a space forme to make a ton of money, but
as like my fifth business.
It would be like a space whereI know it's not going to make
money and that's not the point.
It's to build a community.
I feel like there's a lot ofROI.
That's not the bottom line thatyou get from something like
that.
Exactly.
All right, we're almost there.

(59:17):
So what is one of the best ormost worthwhile investments that
you've ever made, either intime, money, energy or whatever?

Aeden (59:27):
I know this sounds a little hokey but I will say
people, time, energy, money intothe relationships that I have
around me has proven to havegreat ROI.
I'll meet people and my desireto want to build a relationship
with them will naturally lead metowards wanting to invest that

(59:49):
time, energy and money into them.
And when I see reciprocation Ijust up my investment and I have
found that that generates onestrong relationship where people
know that one.
I'm reliable because if theyask for something, I'll do it.
If I say I'll do it, I'll do it.
If I can't, I can't.
But that has also linked me toother great people and has

(01:00:10):
linked me to other greatopportunities, for example, even
between us right.
Working with you at cafes, cafesdoing stand-up comedy with you.
I have a strong desire tocontinue, to want to invest in
our relationship and it's provento yield great outcomes for me.
Right, my career is better, myfinances are better.

(01:00:31):
I've met some great people.
For example, kat and I arebesties now and I met her
through you and I think that'slike invaluable.
I know I say that a lot in thispodcast, but that's really what
has been the greatestinvestment for me.

J.R. (01:00:47):
Nice, I would say that's such an aided answer, but not in
a bad way, because that's alsomy answer.
So yeah, last couple favoriterecent purchase under or around
$ to 100 has impacted your lifein the last six months.

Aeden (01:00:59):
You can change the parameters, but sure I would say
paying an interpreter to doin-language voice acting for my
short film.
Oh, nice because I could haveeasily just had the short film
in english, but I was like, youknow, I kind of want to change
it up.
The actors are already Asian,the staff's already Asian, so
why not pick, like, an Asianlanguage and then have them

(01:01:22):
interpret the script into theirlanguage and then voice act it?
So you may not know this, but Ihad Ed, one of our dance friends
, interpret or translate thescript that I had written from
English into Korean and then hadhim voice it, and then we
dubbed it over the short filmand for me that was just an
added layer and added nuance towhat I wanted the audience to

(01:01:46):
get.
And one of the people who hadwatched it was a coworker of
mine and she married a Koreanguy and she messaged me
separately and she was like Iwas watching it and my husband
walked into the room and she'slike I was watching it and my
husband walked into the room andhe's like what are you watching
?
And then he sat down, watchedit with me and then cried and I
was like, oh, and she's likedude, no, that's crazy, like.

(01:02:09):
And so for me that was likegreat value.
I was just like, oh dang, I'mso glad, I'm so, so glad that we
did that, because it's showingthat it's it has impact, like
that decision isn't just oh youknow what, whatever let's just
throw, let's do whatever youknow like.
there was intention behind itand that intention was met by
the audience and it had impact.

(01:02:30):
So for me, for me that reallywas important in developing my
artistry as like a director oras a producer of the short film.
But at the same time, it wasalso like invest in your friends
and pay artists.
I know a bunch of people arelike, oh you know, let's get
friends to do it, then it's free, haha.
And I was like no, pay yourfriends because, if anything,

(01:02:52):
their labor should mean more toyou their efforts and their
contributions supporting themexactly advantage of your
friends yeah, and I think thatsure, saying like hey, I'm gonna
pay you money is a motivationfor folks to do stuff, but it's
also a way for me to express mygratitude yeah, because
sometimes I'll be like ah, it'sokay, you know it's fine.
I was like no, no, no, you'remy friend.

(01:03:13):
I want to make sure you, myfriend, I want to make sure you
get paid and I want to make sureyou get paid well.
So you're going to get paidbetter than industry standard,
you know.

J.R. (01:03:21):
Yeah, nice.
And are your short films likeonline?
Yes, okay, we'll link to them.
So, yeah, I just want to throwthat in.

Aeden (01:03:36):
Okay, we're over time.
Favorite books, movies, videos,articles, media that you share.
Recommend the most uh favoritebook, please look after mom by
shin kyung, so it's beentranslated into english.
Great book, four sections, eachfrom a different perspective of
a different family member, uponthe disappearance of their
mother, and I read through itand I was like this is riveting
because I see aspects of myselfin different family members.
And then I was like this isriveting because I see aspects
of myself in different familymembers.

(01:03:57):
And then I was like, oh, Iunderstand this perspective,
even though I don't see it.
Because I was like, oh yeah,like that makes sense on family
dynamics or whatever.
And then you finally see themother's perspective at the end
and I was like, oh, my god, I'mcrying.
I need therapy.
I can feel it, yeah.
So that book has been my numberone recommendation to everyone.
Strong rec.

(01:04:17):
She's an amazing author and sherecently released a second book
called I Went to See Father, soI just bought it.
I'm so ready to dig through itand I'm about to bawl my eyes
out.
Nice Movie, everythingEverywhere All at Once.
Please watch it.

J.R. (01:04:31):
Great book, nice Movie, good recs Okay, book nice movie
good rex okay, we'll link tothose as well.
All right, that is it for rapidfire ending questions.
So gratitude.
We like to end with it Aeden,what are you grateful for?

Aeden (01:04:42):
I'm grateful for community.
I'm grateful, grateful formentors, coaches, therapists,
family, and I'm grateful for you.
Thanks, man, as well as thiswonderful podcast space.

J.R. (01:04:57):
I know at podcast place shout out solomon he's the best.
He's the best, yeah, cool.
Any final ask from the audienceor any takeaways that you want
them to?

Aeden (01:05:06):
have from this conversation sure, let's do two
actionable next steps.
Very project manager of projectmanagement.
Yeah, yep, exactly actionable.
Next steps get a therapist ifyou can, if your insurance will
cover it, if you have a motherwho will pay for it.

J.R. (01:05:23):
You know, get a therapist, get adopted by Aeden mom, so
she can pay for it.

Aeden (01:05:26):
Yeah, exactly definitely get a therapist.
If you can, I would recommendshopping around.
It's totally okay to schedule acouple therapists, see who you
like and then eventually settleon one.
It's like dating you need tofind the one that works for you.
The second thing, a little bitnot as actionable in its
immediacy, but interrogate yourintention.

(01:05:48):
I think people who sit down andreally ask themselves why they
do something, for what reasonthey do something, why they do
it the way that they do it.
When you interrogate thesethings, you learn a lot about
yourself and that, in turn, alsohelps you learn a lot about how
other people operate.
And so really interrogate yourintentions and then move with it

(01:06:10):
.

J.R. (01:06:11):
Nice, I like it All right.
So last thing is where can wefind you?

Aeden (01:06:26):
If people want to connect , see what you're up to, whatnot
, we'll link your socials, butwhere can they find you?

J.R. (01:06:32):
Yeah right there.

Aeden (01:06:32):
Yeah, tight.
And then on that Instagramthere's also my link tree, which
will link to my YouTube.

J.R. (01:06:38):
So through my.

Aeden (01:06:38):
YouTube you can see some of my creative pursuits.

J.R. (01:06:42):
So short films, dance videos, this dude literally does
everything, so if you needinsights, he's got you yeah.
Cool.
All right.
Well, we're going to wrap it up.
So thank you, Aeden, again forbeing here.
I really appreciate it.
I enjoyed this conversation.
I'm sure our audience willlearn a lot from it.
And then to sign off, thank youguys for tuning in, listening,
watching.
Wherever you are consuming this, Just a reminder to always be

(01:07:04):
kind to others, especiallyyourself.
And then, just like Aeden vocalcoach says, you know just the
power of listening.
You can always learn somethingfrom someone if you take the
time to listen.
So thanks for being here.

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#16: Aeden Anthony Pham - Adaptability for Growth, the Power of Therapy, and Investing in Relationships

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#16: Aeden Anthony Pham - Adaptability for Growth, the Power of Therapy, and Investing in Relationships