Ray Lee shares his journey from South Korea to the United States as a dedicated Concept Artist, revealing the challenges and triumphs he encountered along the way. He emphasizes the importance of mentorship, consistent practice, and self-care amidst the realities of entering the competitive gaming & entertainment industry and the impact of AI on art.
• Ray's early influences growing up in Korea and China
• The rigorous path to breaking into the art industry
• How military service help him develope resilience
• Impact of mentorship on Ray's career development
• The need for self-care and managing self-doubt
• Balancing tradition and innovation in the advent of AI
• Networking and building connections in the art community
• Final insights on consistency and motivation for aspiring artists
Guest bio:
Ray Lee is a Concept Artist/ Environment Concept Artist/ Digital Art Teacher in Los Angeles, California. He creates 2D Concept Art, including Environment, Props, Illustration, Logo, and Character design to professional standards, showing his design's problem-solving quality in the Game and Entertainment Industry. He has a passion for creating gaming universes that captivate players’ imaginations.
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rayleeart/
- Website: https://www.starlight-vision.com/
- IG: @rayleeart - https://www.instagram.com/rayleeart
Links/resources:
- The Art of Sky (wiki page for mobile game)
One Thousand Gurus Podcast:
Everyone has a compelling story to tell with insights we can all be inspired by. J.R. Yonocruz is a self-improvement blogger, relationship coach, and serial hobbyist with a passion for learning. He interviews unique guests from various fields to distill the strategies, habits, and mindsets we can use in our own lives. Each “guru” has a chance to give the audience a peek into a new world.
www.onethousandgurus.com
Instagram: @OneThousandGurus
TikTok: @onethousandgurus
YouTube: One Thousand Gurus Podcast
Email: onethousandgurus@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
J.R. (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of 1000
Gurus with me, your host, jrYonacruz.
Today's guest is Ray Lee.
Ray Lee is a concept artist,environment concept artist and
digital art teacher in LosAngeles, california.
He creates 2D concept art,including environment props,
illustration, logo and characterdesign to professional
standards, showing his designsproblem-solving quality in the
(00:22):
game and entertainment industry.
He has a passion for creatinggaming universes that captivate
players' imaginations, so thiswas a very insightful episode
and a great peek into the gameand entertainment world,
specifically in concept art.
I've known Ray for almost twoyears now and he has such a
unique story that we only barelyscratched the surface in this
recording.
But one thing I really admireabout Ray is his persistence in
(00:43):
pursuing the field and, as hementions, it's very tough to get
into.
We chat about his own journey,as well as some tips on how to
break into the industry, andthen we also talk about how AI
affects art industries like hisown.
The goal of this podcast isalways to learn about fields we
might not normally be exposed to, and this conversation
definitely hit the mark for thatobjective.
So, without further ado, pleaseenjoy this episode with Ray Lee
(01:05):
.
Hello everyone, and welcome backto 1000 Gurus.
Today's guest is Ray Lee.
Audience applause.
All right, ray, thanks forbeing here.
I really appreciate it.
I know it's, yeah, I know it'slast minute, but I'm excited to
have you on as my first game andentertainment design.
(01:27):
Artist concept artist.
Yes, yeah, there's a lot ofdifferent words in there, so I
don't want to mess it up, butyou'll know what it is by the
end of this.
So I just want to go into firsthow I know you.
We met through our mutualfriend, shasia, your former
housemate, who also helps managesocial media for my channel.
Shout out to shasia.
And so we've known each otherfor I want to say, over a year,
(01:47):
less than two, yeah, somethinglike that.
And then you graduated fromotis last year, yes, and you
invited all of us, all of mydance team, to your art showcase
, which is really great to seeeveryone else's stuff too, and
then see the school.
And then you sometimes help out, um, come to our filmings for
our dance team and stuff likethat.
So it's, we appreciate havingyou there.
Um.
(02:07):
Any other clarifications youwant to add or well, I mean,
that's pretty straightforward.
Ray (02:12):
Yeah, I just really feel grateful to be here today and
then, like whenever I offer youguys to be, like, stop by my art
show, you guys been there.
Yeah, I just feel grateful,nice cool, all right.
J.R. (02:24):
First topic, if we just want to jump straight into it,
is origin story, which isnormally what I go into first.
So this one I want to ask youfor the audience main topic is
where you grew up, maininfluences, catalysts that led
you down the path to work as aconcept artist in the gaming and
entertainment industry.
Basically, just to connect thedots from right, like the main
(02:46):
things that influenced yougrowing up to where you are now
you want to share with theaudience.
Ray (02:50):
Yeah sure, I was born in south korea, in seoul, which is
the biggest city in korea, and Ilived there until I was like
first grade and I had theopportunity to move to china, in
nanjing, with my family becausemy dad was had the award
opportunity over there in hiscompany and that's how I start
(03:14):
to being exposed to the a lot ofcultural diversities and also
like different people, likeoutside of the korea and that's
how I start to get like a littlebit interest in the art.
I was just like normal kids.
Normal kids, like just told,just have no thoughts.
But somehow the art, especiallylike a like mac design, which
(03:37):
is like a robot design, is likegrabbing towards to me, to I
want to do this kind of likedesign or drawing, but I have no
idea to how to approach it in aprofessional way.
So I always just have a likesimple idea of I want to be a
just creating the robot.
So that's how I start to aimingto the concept artist in the
end.
(03:58):
But it has a little bit of thejourney.
So I started with like thinkingabout, should I be an engineer?
Because I was kid, I don't haveany like knowledge.
So I was like engineer becauseI was a kid, I don't have any
like knowledge.
So I was like, oh sure, I wasjust trying to look for the
engineer.
So I was a little bit likestudying a little bit math stuff
and like middle school and highschool and I realized when I
was trying to apply to theuniversity engineer is not
(04:19):
really meant for designing.
It was meant for thefunctionality.
So I found it out there is anindustrial design major that
actually designed the externallike design and actually think
about the functionality at thesame time so that's how I start
to getting more serious aboutthe art.
When I was in high school Ithink it was around freshman
(04:40):
year and also that was the timeI also got back to korea because
I think, because of the familysituation, so we ended up like
staying in china like almostlike seven to eight years in
total and then moved back tokorea and that's how I start to
be more study about my futureand what I wanted to be, and
(05:04):
that's how I started to knowabout the industrial design.
In high school then I went tolike different, like after
school, like studio, to practiceand learning about the
industrial design.
But actually the korea artcollege entrance or university
is pretty much different than inthe states, because they
(05:25):
require the student to take theexam, which is like four hours
it will probably different thannowadays and they always give a
kind of topic and you have torender the image exactly same,
with a slight bit of thecomposition, with a limited
amount of the composition, withthe limited amount of the medium
(05:45):
art medium they provide, whichwill be a post color or
watercolor color pencil.
That's pretty much it.
So it was really boring.
To be honest, I didn't reallylove to practice, but I have the
, the goal that I want to belike designing the robot.
So I thought this is like astep stone for me to get over it
(06:07):
.
So I was like investing a lotof time to be like past the exam
.
But unfortunately, when it'sthe time I took the test, I got
on the wait list on the collegeand I couldn't get make it in
the final.
So that was the time I was likealready made my mind I should
(06:29):
study abroad if I have a chance.
I was having a discussion withmy parents and I was.
Thankfully, my parents allowedme to prepare the board like art
colleges and the estates, whichis like oldest college that I
graduated, and there's anotherlike great art college called
the art center college.
So I was applied those twocollege in the end and I got
(06:52):
accepted both of them.
But I realized I have amandatory military service as a
korean citizenship.
So I was like you know what?
I will go to the otis becauseit's close to the airport and
they have a dorm.
That was pretty simple reason oh, I see, yeah, and that's how I
(07:13):
went ended up going to the otisother than the art center.
I was like pretty enjoyed thefreshman year, like in oldest,
because it was, everything wasso new.
Yeah, and I was being my bymyself first time in my life and
I'm only like pursuing art andart related like classes.
(07:34):
I think that was like for meit's like a playground.
J.R. (07:38):
So so then, like you so going from like, from when
you're younger, it seemed likeyou were always drawn to like
art, and not so much, like yousaid, like engineering or like
functionality, but more likedesign but you think that's just
how your brain works.
Ray (07:54):
I really want to create art as opposed to like more of a
science sort of major yeah, Ithink because whenever I see the
like car design outside on thestreet or some kind of like a
gadget that we are using forfixing something, I just like
thinking about.
This design looks very cool,but I want to break it down in a
(08:15):
logical way and I want to makeit my style.
That's how I start to get likeinteresting and it's like you're
always intrigued with likedesign of different things yeah,
it makes sense.
J.R. (08:25):
So then you said so, you said you went to otis.
Was that before your militaryservice?
Yes okay, so then you went tootis and then military, and then
you came back to otis.
Yes, oh, okay, I didn't knowthat.
I always thought, and so otiswas is it considered
undergraduate or yes, they areokay.
So you did undergraduate forhow long?
At Otis?
Ray (08:44):
Four years, four years, and then you did military for two
years, yes, two years, and thenplus with the one year of the
pandemic COVID.
Oh, and then you came back forthe graduate program no it's
almost like continuing theundergrad program.
So I finished my freshman yearbefore the military.
J.R. (09:01):
Then I got back as the sophomore year to like finish my
BFA like program Okay, so howmany years is that?
Ray (09:10):
Total, yeah, total, and you mean including the military.
J.R. (09:12):
Oh, I guess, if you subtract the military, how much
is school?
Ray (09:15):
Oh, just four.
Okay, so four total.
Okay, gotcha.
J.R. (09:25):
So you just finished the four years maybe this isn't real
or maybe not.
A lot of people who arelistening to this know what
korean military services.
Yes, I mean, we hear about it.
I guess my friends and I weknow that we follow k-pop
artists and they have theirmilitary service and it's like a
deadline for them to do theirentertainment stuff in the
military.
So I don't know if you can givelike an overview or a tldr of
what korean military servicesand then maybe how that affected
you or how that affected yourcareer, if at all, or just give
(09:45):
us a look into what it's like.
Ray (09:47):
I think overall, the military service gave me a life
lesson to how to like adjustmyself in a very different
environment that I don't want itto be like keep getting exposed
to the community or the peoplethey are not really like you but
we have to stick together fortwo years.
J.R. (10:09):
Like working with different people Exactly
Different environments.
Ray (10:12):
It actually taught me a lot of different types of like
social skills to like workingwith the other people in a
different situation and thebackground situation.
And the background, becauseinside the military it doesn't
matter where you were before orwhat's your job before it
doesn't matter yeah, everyone'sjust even equal, exactly
(10:33):
everyone's same.
I think that was a uniqueexperience for me to understand
person to person.
That was a really great likepoint of view me to having in my
life right now.
Actually that helps me to startto understand myself a little
bit more, because whenever Iinteract with the like limited
amount of people, I can see thepattern of my actions and my
(10:57):
thoughts, but that actually giveme a kind of signal, I'll say,
to tell me like, oh, this isyour one of the bad character
you should like they don't pointit out, but they will say in a
different way.
But I have to filter out tounderstand oh, this is the one
that I need to like figure outby myself.
But honestly, it took me a lotof time.
(11:19):
I think I realized in the end ofthe almost end of the military
service, like in in thebeginning, in the middle, I was
more like into myself, like alittle bit more self-centered.
So I was like it's like weirdto hearing this from like people
around me.
I don't want to be here.
But I realized if I have morenegative mindset, I can't do
(11:42):
anything outside of the militarytoo.
So I figure out to be keepmyself busy in the military,
because military means likeeverything is unified and you
have to do the same, like workhour and everything.
But there's always way youcould sign up for like
individual contests you want.
Like, for example, Iparticipate on like creating the
(12:04):
idea about the military, likemobile application, like contest
ideas, stuff.
I also did that by myself, so Iactually had a little bit more
extra time to study and also inthe military?
yeah, in the military, okay sothey actually provide you those
type of opportunities.
Yeah, you can like work byyourself or you actually
(12:25):
volunteer to going for, liketranslating the english or some
of the events inside themilitary.
Yeah, I think that kind ofhelps me to keep it busy inside,
other than I just regret myselfto be inside the military and
then just spending time as likehow not every people but some of
people who spend just it feelslike regretful way like they're
(12:47):
wasting time or something right,they just like spending their
day.
What other people told to do?
J.R. (12:53):
oh I see is it, would you say it's difficult.
I don't know what it's like, Iknow there's like a military.
It seems like physicalcomponent right like maybe you
need to.
There's you need to be in shapeand athletic to a certain
degree, but also there's a lotof, like you said, uniform stuff
.
Maybe you're doing like I don'tknow office administrative type
(13:13):
stuff.
I don't know what that's like.
Ray (13:15):
Of course everyone have their own like assigned position
For me.
I was originally signed up asthe culinary like specialist, so
I was supposed to be likeparticipate on cooking for
everyone in my base.
Oh, I see.
But since my background waskind of unique, so one of my
officer offered me to go to thedifferent like position
(13:36):
temporarily inside the base.
J.R. (13:37):
That kind of allows, so you can like a little bit
twisted, even if it's youalready have assigned position
yeah, so I was working as a, so,like they, can they assign you
sort of based on what yourbackground is yeah okay they can
like use some of the people forin a like.
Ray (13:54):
It's kind of weird to say better way, but it's more on
their like, using their skillsright like a more effective use
of that person yeah, and thenparticipate on their like base
performance and everything.
Yeah, so I was assigned as theone of human resource specialist
, okay, so I can actually managethe document and plus, sometime
I get the opportunity to doingthe english translate or some of
(14:18):
the military event that I canbe like, speak out loud, but
yeah, those kind of stuff yeahquick backtrack tangent.
J.R. (14:25):
But you said you lived in china for six years yeah, almost
like six seven do you speakchinese or mandarin or something
?
Ray (14:32):
not anymore, as how I was used to be, so you did a little
bit yeah just like the same.
It's like more you can.
J.R. (14:40):
It's like a middle school ish like Like maybe
conversational, but just getaround.
Ray (14:45):
Yeah, or for just studying purpose, because when I was in
international school in China,they have amended classes every
hour to take a Chinese class, sowe have to study and take an
exam.
Luckily, I could expose to moreChinese to learn in a better
(15:06):
way, but after I like left toChina, I had less time to speak
or study about it.
Also, I didn't have the passionto like keep the language level
right right right, but right nowI can only listen and have a
little bit of the speaking levelthat I can like, bare minimum
traveling around to.
J.R. (15:21):
China, so you can at least understand when people are
talking yeah, gotcha, that'scool, okay.
So, um, it's time to pivot alittle bit or at least go into
now the meat of the conversation, which is your expertise, which
is, um, game and entertainmentdesign.
I know just to connect it.
You mentioned, you know, whatyou learned from military is
like adapting and being indifferent environments, and then
(15:42):
a wholeher topic could be likeyou moving to the States and
adapting to that, and we'vetalked personally about that
experience.
But now you are in the game andentertainment design industry
and one of the topics you wantedto talk about was what the
field is like, what you'velearned, what is it like being
an international Korean studentand then breaking into the
(16:03):
industry?
Are there any parts of that youwant to start with?
Ray (16:06):
first, I can start with the like as a student point of view
.
Yeah, of course, this industryis very challenging for everyone
, including me, because gameentertainment design industry
required the artist to be aalmost semi-perfect general
artists.
Because it involves the fashiondesign knowledge, graphic
(16:27):
design and some of theindustrial design,
transportation design, productdesign, so and plus with the
liberal of the illustrations, soeverything has to be like
merged in one spot it's like acombination of all those
different exactly that's crazyactually, now that you put it
that way, like wait, you do needto know all those, you can't?
J.R. (16:46):
just I like to color right no you have to know design for
a lot of different thingsexactly.
Ray (16:50):
So you have to understand the art aspect and the design
aspect at the same time tocreate your work.
So that's why this industry hasthe like really high bar.
Of course other industry alsohave the high bar, but for this
one is it's pretty tough for theart students to actually aiming
for becoming a professionalartist, and I think, as a korean
(17:13):
as a korean male for sure, notthe female people.
But we have to consider aboutthe mandatory military service,
because a lot of people go toart college abroad around their
20s.
So most of the people didn'tfigure out their military
service.
So we have to a little bit setup the plan.
Do I want to pursue my career inthe States or do I want to just
(17:37):
go back to Korea to pursue mycareer?
I think that's how we begin.
Probably there are people whojust want to go back after they
earn their degree, or there'speople wanting to gain the
experience and looking for thefuture opportunity more in the
States.
So for me it was like thesecond one.
So after I choose that path, Ihave to try to make some of the
(18:02):
connection.
Thankfully, I had the bigopportunity to meet my current
mentor, who taught me all theskill and all the knowledge to
build my art skill where I'm atright now.
I think that was the biggesthelp for me to get into this
industry in a very smooth way,because and otherwise we have to
(18:29):
spend a lot of time to find outthe mentor or find out the
people who are in the industryto get some of the information
that is very crucial before youactually preparing yourself to
be like wanting to be a conceptartist so there's a high bar.
J.R. (18:44):
I'm just rephrasing everything.
So there's a very high bar it'svery difficult to break into
and then, as a koreaninternational student or a
korean male korean citizen, youhave to consider your long-term
sort of career path, how youwant to deal with that.
But also you're mentioning thathaving a mentor was huge for
you to guide you through thatprocess because it's so
challenging and difficult.
Ray (19:03):
Right, and to get you to guide you through that process
because it's so challenging anddifficult right and to get you
to where you are now, and Ithink after I met my mentor, it
was everything was pretty, likeI'll say it's not easy, but
everything was like, not likeblind spot for me, like I know
where I should go based on whathe already went through.
J.R. (19:24):
So there's clarity, it's not easy but at least you have
an idea of where to go.
Ray (19:28):
Yeah, exactly.
J.R. (19:29):
I was going to ask you what are some of the biggest
takeaways you learned from yourmentor to breaking into the
industry.
Ray (19:35):
I think the constancy of practicing myself, the art skill
and, plus with you, take careof yourself well.
I think those two aspects isvery important as the artist,
because even if you, even if I,participate on the commercial
art base, still it's an art, soit also impact by the our
(19:59):
emotions and our thoughts, so weneed a good amount of the mind
controlling.
So I think that aspect Ilearned a lot from him while I'm
like having a mentorship classwith him, and then he also gave
me a feedback which is actuallyhe can tell through my like
(20:19):
practice assignment that I likehow I was thinking and how I
felt in that way.
J.R. (20:26):
So, yeah, I think that's why I think those two, like
mindset, is very important soyou said consistency, so like
continuously practicing and likebuilding your art and getting
better.
But also you said taking careof yourself is important.
Yes, like in taking care ofyourself.
In what way?
Ray (20:44):
more.
Do not doubt about yourself youknow.
Okay, that is very importantfor everyone, for sure.
But when you doubt yourself alot as the artist, you start to
like, forget about like how todraw weird experience, and then
people call that as like artblock it's like a yeah, it's a
block, like a mind block exactlywriter's block like choreo
(21:04):
block, every block right allpeople who are participating the
art like aspect have those likestruggling experience.
So if you wanted to prevent that, you have to take care of
yourself.
Oh, it's just, you're at themoment of trying to get better
and then it is hard to see theprogress, the result of the
(21:26):
progress like, right after youpractice.
So you have to keep trustingyourself that you will get in
better, but keep aware that it'sam I going in the right
direction or not?
So that's why having a mentorwas a great experience for me.
J.R. (21:42):
My question was maybe you answered it but like, how does
someone overcome that self-doubt, and so you?
I think you just said right,it's having the faith that
you're trusting yourself, butalso that going, getting
guidance, that you're going theright direction, but also
reflecting and also taking careof your like your yourself in
general.
Is there anything else that youwould recommend on how to
(22:02):
eliminate that self-doubt orkeep moving forward?
Ray (22:05):
I think you have to trying to find out your way to get rid
of the stress okay because a lotof people have a different way
to get rid of the stress right.
Some people like to go fordancing class, even if they're
artists, or some people like togo for hiking or running or just
walking outside on the street.
(22:26):
For me, I like to walk aroundthe street because that kind of
helps me to tracking down mylike emotion.
I think I learned thisknowledge from one of the book I
forgot what it was, but it wastalking about.
The skandavian people are usedto go for a walk when they get
(22:47):
emotional and then they justkeep walking until they feel
like their emotion is settled.
And once they feel like theiremotion is settled, they turn
back and then walking backexactly how they walk.
J.R. (23:01):
So the same path, yeah, until they're done.
They're like now they're.
Then they turn around and dothe whole thing back gotcha, and
so you can reflect yourself.
Ray (23:07):
Why did I feel this?
So much like angry, or why didI feel so struggle?
I think that helps me to go fora walk in that aspect okay, I
want to go back to.
J.R. (23:19):
I think we you really gave a lot of good advice in general
, like, as an artist, how toovercome those blocks and stuff
like that.
Do you have any specific advicethat you've learned or insights
along the way that helped youto break into the industry?
Or I know you mentionedpreparing a concept art
portfolio.
Maybe what has helped you themost or what is one big advice
(23:39):
you'd give to someone who wantsto break into the industry?
Ray (23:42):
I think that's really a good question For me.
I think, one important thingthat I can mention in the
beginning will be trying to findyour motivation to want to
become a concept artist.
Do you really want to be aconcept artist or are you just
pursuing the unicorn of yourselfof being an artist?
(24:03):
Because I think this is what Iheard from people in the
industry that there's twostudents if they have to teach,
like they said, the first onewill be have like great amount
to gift it and they're good atworking, like practicing
everything, but they don't havemotivation.
But the second student has thehuge motivation but doesn't have
(24:27):
any skill and surprisingly,they will take the second
student because the motivationis the where no one could make
them to be like motivated tokeep pursuing the art career by
themselves.
So that's why I think, tryingto find out your core motivation
(24:48):
, why you want to be a conceptartist in the game industry,
then I think you could find away to get to the professional
level in a different like path Ilike that a lot, so
self-awareness know, whatmotivates you, know why you're
in the industry, and that'lltake you far.
J.R. (25:05):
And if not, you're like wait, maybe I'm not motivated.
Maybe I should try to pivotsomewhere else, that's.
I think that's really goodadvice anything else on, so I
want to.
The next topic that I want topivot to is the impact of ai on
game and entertainment designindustry.
Ray (25:22):
But any other last thoughts on just in general, like
breaking into the industry orany lessons that you learn you
want to touch on I think the oneof the big lesson is you have
to be pro active once you areabout to get graduated or even
if you're in a college year,trying to get keep touch with
your not only a school people.
(25:43):
You're trying to go through thelinkedin like professional
website or art station which isprofessional, like community for
the concept artists oranimation industry people.
You could visit there and thentrying to comment on their work,
or you can send a privatemessage to them to get it
understand about what's going onin the industry.
Most of people will be likefriendly.
(26:06):
Some people are very busy sothey will probably forget to
respond to you back.
But don't get discouraged,trying to be like proactive and
be nice to people out there,because even to your like
friends next to you in thecollege, because in the end you
don't know, your friends willwork in the different industry
(26:28):
or maybe your friends can't getthe job faster than you so they
might have the recommendation toyou later.
So that's why the connection isthe key point so.
J.R. (26:38):
So persistence and finding those opportunities, being
proactive, but also building anetwork.
Be nice, don't burn bridges,obviously, because you never
know where that one connectioncould open a door opportunity
for you.
Exactly Nice, I like it, allright.
So now moving on to AI.
So, like I mentioned before westarted, recording is, let's say
(27:01):
, let's assume that maybe mostpeople don't really know the
impacts or what AI is in art andon specifically on your
industry.
Maybe a general exposure to AIis oh, now we're seeing all
these weird AI generated artimages online and obviously
that's directly in your industry, right, because you do design
(27:22):
art.
I wanted to ask the firstquestion is could you, like,
paint a picture I guess punintended for what the industry
looks like or what ai is?
How does that look like in yourindustry?
Ray (27:33):
I think it's.
Of course, everyone will have adifferent like thoughts, but
what I hear from my people inthe industry and what I
experience, it's more like 60,40, like 64 people who are
trying to keep the humanactually participating on
creating the pre-production work, which is like concept work,
(27:56):
and for these we should adapt,as part of the tools, tools to
reduce the amount of the timethat we have to spend on the
pre-production time so we canactually make a better quality
and better work.
I think that's the two opinionright now in the industry.
J.R. (28:12):
That makes a lot of sense.
So I guess, if I'munderstanding this correctly,
let's say the 40% is saying well, we have scientific calculators
, might as well use it to helpwith the process of the
pre-production design work.
But you're saying 60 are likeno, let's keep ai out of it and
let's keep the human side of itfor the pre-production work
where I don't know where do youpersonally fall on that?
Do you think that it's more ofa hindrance or do you think it
(28:33):
would help?
Ray (28:35):
for art.
I think it depends on thesituation, Because the reason
why a lot of people are doubtabout the AI like open resources
, like those systems becausethey can actually paint and then
create a different visualreference or creating one game.
(28:55):
However, they cannot reach thelevel of actually designing or
creating the design variationfor the certain like nda, like
game ip that's what like a lotof people think about because we
can purchase the database fromlike open ai resource company
because it's meant for open.
So it's hard to keep it as ndabecause eventually the machine
(29:19):
will expose in a sort of way tothe public when everyone's are
using it in the same database solike the NDA art side of it,
like the ownership of that artis compromised by using AI in
that sort of sense, like opensource right.
J.R. (29:34):
I guess that that makes a lot of sense, because I was
going to ask what are thedownsides of using AI for
pre-production work, anythingelse on how it's currently
affecting the industry.
So you said there's two schoolsof thought, but how does that
affect you as someone in theindustry or people going into
the industry?
What are the mainconsiderations for how it's
shifting?
Ray (29:55):
I think, since one of the strong tools, the new tool which
is AI.
Ai has a great like paintingskill, which means for the art
concept artists it's requiredyou to you have better painting
quality like than the ai,because ai will quickly paint it
for you like a mood painting,but you have to paint on top of
(30:18):
the ai painting to finalize thepainting in the end and then
including your design languageinside.
So I think that also brings upthe bar more higher than before.
That's why it's more tough forgetting a job out there and
especially for a lot of gamecompanies run by a different
investor and I think a lot ofinvestors are trying to the
(30:40):
different investor and I think alot of investor trying to
invest the like the budgetduring the covid season because
a lot of people can't go outside, so most of people looking for
a way to like spending theirtime inside, like their house,
so a lot of people actually playa lot of different games.
So that's how the businesspeople might thought it would be
(31:00):
a great idea to invest themoney to earn the profit.
But in the end, after like thecovid pandemic goes down a
little bit and people startedgoing back to where they were
before, now it's for them it'slike kind of question mark and
then, plus with the ai, likejust got off from the public and
(31:21):
now they think that the gametakes like almost like 6 years
to develop to make a triple Agame quality.
Is it worth it to investing somuch money on the artist or
pre-production people to createthe one triple A title game.
So I think that's why there'sless job market and also it
(31:43):
requires a lot of skill and thatend up doesn't have a lot of
junior position or mid-levelposition in the game industry.
J.R. (31:52):
Oh, I see.
So the skill level or the barfor skill is higher, so there's
less job opportunities.
But also, like you said, thegaming industry shrank after
covid after all the investors.
I had a friend on lyndon whowas on episode six talking about
the game industry and I waslike, yeah, the covid, all the
investors are putting money intothe gaming industry and then,
after it died out, that's shrunkup again and so you're saying
(32:15):
like the bar is higher butthere's also less money into it.
So I guess what considerationswould you give for someone who's
interested in going into theindustry?
I know you're saying that it'sa higher bar, so definitely be
prepared to learn more skills,be even better.
You have to in order to breakin.
Any other considerations forpeople who want to be in the
industry?
Ray (32:32):
I think it connects to the thought where I said before.
It's like you need theconstancy and your motivation,
which means you have to spend alot of time on practicing the
fundamental art skills toactually creating your own like
art portfolio, because in theend you might like love to do
(32:53):
certain like game ip that youwanted to work in that game
studio, however, you need tolearn about the fundamental art
skills, which is illustrationskill, design skills.
That has to be like very fluent,like inside your body, so it's
like muscle memory, so you don'thave to be struggle every time
you're doing the new project.
You have to be always likeready to go.
(33:14):
So I think that's why theconstancy and your motivation is
the key point to prepareyourself to apply for the job in
the industry right now.
J.R. (33:23):
Okay, so consistency and motivation, but also like
patience too, because I'm sureit'll take a long time.
Oh, yeah, absolutely I mean youcould get lucky, obviously but,
it's crazy.
Through this conversation I'mrealizing now that as much as
people say like art and scienceor like technical and artistic
industries but it seems likeyour industry is very much also
(33:43):
very technical because there'sso many things you need to learn
about it.
You can't just pick up apaintbrush and just make
something.
It's there's also so much thatgoes into it, especially in your
industry.
So I feel like there, I don'tknow, I feel like there should
be a deep appreciation for that.
But all not only that, but ifyou're using ai as a tool for
that work, it is like at leasthalf technical, which is kind of
(34:06):
crazy.
But I guess that my thoughtsare that it would ideally make
the industry better I guess asan end product for a consumer.
But I'm just thinking out loudokay, that's crazy, because the
bar is getting higher.
There's better tools, so maybeyou can be more efficient.
But I guess, as someone in theindustry, you're like okay, well
(34:26):
, it's also harder, but you canbreak in.
You just have to be consistentand whatnot?
Motivated.
Ray (34:33):
I think as the current junior level of the concept
artist, I think you have to be avery strong about your
fundamental art skill againbecause in the end some of the
major company are attempt tousing the ai program to develop
their own game ip.
But that means are you areready to like paint over on the
(34:57):
ai's work to make it better thanai.
That's the big assignment forthe current like concept artists
.
So most of like mid and seniorlevel people already like
prepared, it's like part oftheir job, so it's not a big of
like issue for them.
Of course they'll get a lot ofstress because they get less
(35:19):
appreciated about their workbecause even if they have a
really good amount of the goodquality and plus with the speed
of the work, a lot of peoplelike on the top side, people who
are deciding the business andeverything, will think that why
does it take you so long?
Can you make it a little bitmore faster?
J.R. (35:34):
yeah, because everyone couldn't know yeah everyone
could know each people's story.
Ray (35:46):
So that's why I think it's better to be better than the AI.
It is hard, but once you'refocusing on the fundamental art
skills, there will always be away for you to get better.
J.R. (35:56):
But I think that's the most challenging part for
everyone, or, as the juniorlevel people I see all right
anything else on on the impactof ai and game and entertainment
design industry or anyconsiderations for the audience
or even in general for breakingin again.
There might be people out therewho are like really intrigued
(36:18):
and they want to break in, butnow it's the advice is it's hard
right?
But, work on your foundationalart skill, obviously because
that's very important as anartist.
So I don't want to make itsound so bleak, but that's just
the reality of it right.
Ray (36:30):
Any other insights that you , or topics or insights you want
to touch on in there that youfeel like is important I think,
if I break it down a little bitprecise way, I'll say so if you
decide to be a like conceptartist in the game industry,
then you have to find out likekind of big two things.
One is like a little bit easyway to say, but like yours, not
(36:53):
your art style, like what kindof stylization of the work that
you want to pursue in yourportfolio.
For example, for me I like todo my little bit like cute and
chibi, but which is japaneseterm?
It's like really small size,like sd characters, like
environment or like character orprop design for the mobile game
(37:16):
industry.
That's the one of thestylization.
And the one is, like a lot ofpeople will know, like riot
games, blizzard entertainment,like the game style, like
graphical style is the kind oflike a semi-realistic we count
as a semi-realistic stylization.
And then after thehyper-realistic one is like a
call of duty or naughty dogs,like games.
(37:40):
Those like three is the thingthat you have to decide which
one you are more interested andif you choose one from there
it'll be all depends if youchoose the riot games or
blizzard entertainment, like ourstyle, or the mobile game, our
style you have to be really goodat like handly, like digital
paint, so, which requires a lotof fundamental art skills.
(38:01):
That will be just bare minimum.
So, which is unfair for thejunior level artists, because
junior level, which means, likeyou can have opportunity to
learn from the work environment,but this environment is always
like fast paced environment, soit requires you to be ready to
go candidly.
So I think that's the the keypart.
(38:21):
And if you wanted to go tonaughty dog or more hyper
realistic, like a film filmingstyle, then you have to
understand about how to edit thephoto they call as a photo
bashing oh, I see skills.
Basically, you still need thefundamental art skill again, but
you know how to manipulate alldifferent type of photo that you
(38:44):
find on the online and you makea one object.
It could be a character, itcould be a marmon, it could be a
props it depends on what you'reworking, but that's the another
path that you have to choose.
So that's like how you breakdown the strategy in the end and
then that's how you will createyour portfolio based on that
path oh, I see.
J.R. (39:04):
Yeah, so it is like a choose your character, choose
your career path and you go downthat career path but there's,
like you said, the three sort ofmajor areas.
Yeah, then you pick that sortof pathway, design style and
then you figure out there'sdifferent skill sets but, like
you said, your foundational artskills are important, but but
along the path you learn deviate, different skill sets as well
(39:27):
yes gotcha.
It's interesting, I didn't knowthat, but that makes a lot of
sense.
Um, cool, anything else, beforewe go on to rapid fire
questions, last little tidbitsof nuggets you feel would be, I
think.
Ray (39:41):
I just hope people don't get like um easily give up.
J.R. (39:45):
It's too late, they're already they change majors.
Ray (39:49):
They're like oh this ray dude, I'm changing my major as a
first year it's just if youhave a good enough of the
motivation and you will getthere.
But it is tough, like it istough for me right now, because
I also work as digital artteacher.
Right now I'm not like directlyworking in the game industry,
(40:09):
but I'm still seeking for theopportunity, but I just put
myself out there trying to getlike close to exposed to the
game industry.
Of course, education, oureducation and the game is
definitely a different field,but it's like you expose
yourself to doing the art asyour.
It could be a part-time or itcould be a contract, still
working on the art, but on theside, trying to enjoy what you
(40:33):
are, working like your art,practicing by yourself, because
once you get out from the school, of course you have all the
freedom, yeah, but there is awhere you get tested by yourself
.
Are you willing to be a artist?
Did you really had thatmotivation, as before?
J.R. (40:50):
yeah, you motivated to go out there now that you're on
your own gotcha yeah, no, that'sgood.
I appreciate that, especiallyhammering home, like the main
ideas you're saying.
Which is what's yourmotivations and can you be
consistent enough?
Okay, ready for rapid fire?
Yeah, nice, this is the funpart.
All right, so first question,billboard question.
If you could put up a sign formillions of people to see, what
(41:11):
would it say?
Ray (41:13):
Kind of difficult question for me.
J.R. (41:16):
Hire me, just kidding.
Honestly, that works too to tobe honest, I'm a little bit like
want it to work yeah, is it,you can that can be your answer,
if you want, and then a pictureof your face with chibi
character yeah, my portfoliowebsite hyperlink like or like a
qr code yes nice, cool, we'llgo with that.
(41:38):
Then, what is one of thehardest challenges you faced in
your life and what did you learnfrom it?
Ray (41:43):
I think having a decision whenever you take a big step it
could be not a big step when Iturn it back and look around, it
was a part of the journey.
I think the way I decide myselfto should I finish the high
school in China as theinternational student or do I
(42:06):
want to go back to Korea, whichis totally different, like
education environment moreintense, Asian education system
is more intense, and then youhave an actual true friend.
What I mean by true friend islike when I was in China
everyone's from differentcountries, so eventually you
(42:28):
don't have actual friends.
You can see them often or laterafter you graduate the school.
It's more like everyone's livingtheir own life in a different
country, like a little temporarysort of, yeah, and it will be
very like hard to like keep intouch either each other, even if
we have, like social media andeverything.
Yeah, that's why I decided togo to high school in korea other
(42:51):
than I just like pursuing tofinish the high school program
in china and then I actuallyearned a lot of friendship and
then experience how to likebeing in an intense, like
education environment to besurvived, which is have a
mentality, I think, likewhenever something is like hits
(43:14):
on me, I have, I can be likeready myself to be OK, this is
the moment, so let's take a deepbreath and then let's go for it
.
J.R. (43:23):
I think those mindset so the challenges helped you build
that mindset, gotcha.
Next one is self-inflictedwound.
Do you have a story aboutsomething that's gone wrong in
your life?
That's your own fault and youcan't blame anyone because you
did it to yourself?
Ray (43:42):
own fault and you can't blame anyone because you did it
to yourself.
I think right now I don't feellike too embarrassed anymore,
but when I was in china Icouldn't even speak any english
at all, like at all, like Icouldn't even spell alphabet in
the order.
So I was very like numbed andoverwhelmed in the new
environment and I think at thetime racism and a lot of
(44:10):
unfortunate thing was, I'll say,semi-default.
It was not a major issue as howit is right now.
The school was counting me asoh, this student has language
disorder, so we have to put thestudent to the special class,
like special care needs studentclass.
But I think the approach wasvery like awkward for me, even
if I think about it right nowbecause whenever we finish the
(44:31):
the homeroom like time, theycall me out in front of the
student and then they take me tothe special care needs student
classroom.
But that classroom location isalso a question mark because
it's fully see-through, likeglass door, if I have to put it
(44:51):
in a little bit bad way I'll saylike a zoo.
Oh, I see, yeah, and it'slocated in the middle of the
hallway, because myinternational school was like
from kindergarten to high school, so it's like a big hallway,
like a company.
So that's why for me it wasvery embarrassing and constantly
getting overwhelmed and a lotof kids in that age are not
(45:14):
understanding what is wrong andright Most people just follow.
What other people?
Are saying a lot of classmatewas, yeah, being mean and then
talking about like bad thingsabout me, like that you're not
really good at studying.
J.R. (45:26):
Yeah, like especially from the korean community back in
the time was it something thatyou did to yourself, or is that
what?
Ray (45:32):
you're, I'll say I should study more hard if I put my
myself a little bit more in aharsh way.
Oh yeah, okay yeah.
J.R. (45:38):
So you're like, okay, I probably should have studied
more, but it was in a veryembarrassing and bad situation
for you.
Ray (45:43):
I was already pressured by being embarrassed.
Yeah, gotcha.
If you could redo one thingwhat would you do differently?
That's a really good question,because I was trying to think
about that before, but when Irealized I think is that really
important to like redo something?
(46:04):
Or going back in the past andthen thinking about it, yeah.
J.R. (46:07):
So let's say you had to redo something as a thought
experiment, because most of myguests are the same.
They're like I bad thingshappen but I'm so glad for it,
because now I'm the way I am,but as a thought experiment if
you could redo something, whatwould you redo?
Ray (46:20):
If I really have to choose it, I'll say I want to practice
art a little bit more earlier,when I was younger.
Sooner, when I was even inChina, I should just doodle
something.
Oh, I see, just keep myselfdrawing something.
J.R. (46:35):
Oh, okay, you didn't start drawing or doing art until
later.
Ray (46:38):
Yeah, Actually I started practicing after drawing and
stuff was from freshman year inhigh school.
J.R. (46:45):
Oh, I see that makes sense .
If you could give your youngerself advice, what would it be
now?
Any age, any time period, I'llsay be honest, from like how
young?
Or just any time young.
Ray (46:59):
Any time, honestly, I'll say any age.
I just want to see me honestand then true to yourself.
I think that's the two partthat I want to tell to my old
age nice.
J.R. (47:13):
Is that because you feel like you weren't really as
honest as you wanted to be whenyou're younger?
Ray (47:17):
oh, yeah, I did.
Yeah, I was because I wasalways get overwhelmed by the
fact that how I get evaluated inthe public, I think the big of
trigger was like how Iexperienced in international
school in the first place waslike triggering me a lot.
I tend to hype myself a lot,like at that point I didn't
really know who I am.
(47:37):
I just wanted to representmyself as just like decent, good
person, good friend, and then Ididn't really think about do I
actually need this or is itreally necessary?
It's more like for survivingpurpose.
J.R. (47:55):
So you felt like you had to look good, be decent,
presentable, but you felt likeyou were putting up a mask or
something yeah, you weren'tbeing as honest as you wanted to
be right, that makes sense.
In the last few years, what newbelief, behavior or habit has
improved your life?
Ray (48:11):
thing, there's a lot of things for me, but one of the
biggest thing was is actuallyunderstanding about myself a
little bit more in a deeperlevel, because I tend to have a
lot of emotional disconnectionabout myself because of, like,
where am I at?
Because most of the time Ididn't really stay in the one
(48:34):
physical environment.
I was being in a differentcountry always, always exposed
in different society, so that'swhy I was like I don't have time
to feel about this at thatmoment.
The emotion that is hitting me.
For example, whenever I left thecountry or left the place, I
didn't feel sad, because Ialways talk to myself I don't
(48:55):
have time to be sad.
J.R. (48:56):
You're always, constantly, moving doing something, so you
have no time to feel that.
So what was the?
You said the behavior or beliefwas sorry.
What was it again?
Ray (49:05):
um, it's more be I'll say like transparent with myself,
okay yeah, how does one be moretransparent with themselves?
J.R. (49:15):
let's say I'm asking as a person okay, I want to be okay,
I want to be more transparent, Iwant to be more honest.
How does one become more honest?
Ray (49:21):
I think there's a point where you realize that, oh, I'm
doing the bad thing over again.
At that moment I think I justswallow the words or I just
pause myself and then I feelvery awkward myself, A little
bit cringe or something.
Oh, I see.
J.R. (49:41):
You can feel it when you yeah, not being like completely
honest or transparent.
Ray (49:44):
Yeah, it's like more hefty the sense and if that hits me
and I just pause myself, wait aminute.
I was like if I do this again,it'll be same again.
And then, even if that makes mewell, if I, even if that will
makes me embarrassed at thatmoment, I just let it be, even
if that makes me embarrassed atthat moment.
J.R. (50:02):
I just let it be.
I see it's like being moreaware of yourself, your
intuition, what you do and whatyou say, how it makes you feel
Right, and then taking a pauseto reflect on that.
I like it.
Who would you call successfuland how do you define success?
Ray (50:18):
Wow, that's really a good question.
I'll say people I don't havelike single person, but people
who out there are being a dadand then managing their family
financial-wise, emotional-wise,everything, and then trying to
(50:39):
live their life peacefully.
I think that is very for meemotional-wise everything, and
then trying to live their lifepeacefully.
I think that is very for me.
It's very admirable for me tobe that type of.
I'll say A dad figure likemaintaining your household Right
it's not more like manly dad,it's more like the dad has the
full accountability, beingreliable and accountable,
exactly.
J.R. (51:01):
Like being there and stuff like that.
More actual, like adult.
So that's how you definesuccess is like someone who can
portray that in their own lifethat's like good dad energy, yes
, cool.
If you knew you couldn't fail,what would you try or what would
you be doing now?
Ray (51:17):
uh, could you rephrase that question?
J.R. (51:19):
yeah, so if you could do anything and you knew you would
succeed, what would you betrying?
Would it be different?
Would it be the same?
Would there be some new things?
Ray (51:29):
like I've always been curious about doing that thing I
think I will try to pursuebecoming a like a not like
completely like a finding finedining, like chef or working in
the fine dining industry,because I always love to do
cooking on the side, because alot of my part-time job was like
(51:53):
being in the food like workingthe kitchen section and a
different like cuisine.
So I always thought the uh,cooking is part of the art.
So maybe that's why I thinkthat what if I was like working
on the you know, culinaryindustry so in a different
universe.
J.R. (52:11):
You're still an artist, but now in culinary nice.
What is one of the best or mostworthwhile investments you've
ever made in either time?
Ray (52:20):
money or energy or etc I think the best investment was
maybe having a decision to comeall the way to the states, even
if it's I don't have anyone elseto know.
Like anyone else, I I know hereI just take the big step to
having the adventure and ofcourse I at the time my art
(52:42):
skills and everything as myselfwas.
Everything was like like Ididn't.
I wasn't fully prepared and butI strongly felt that if I don't
give a try, I feel like I'llregret or I'll be just living in
the past.
So I was like I'll try my fullpotential out there and if I get
(53:05):
any type of result, in the end,I'll accept it and then I'll
move forward to the differentthing that I need to figure out
in my life.
J.R. (53:14):
I like it.
You know that quote to thatsaying, which is like there's
only two pain in life.
There's the pain of regret andthe pain of discipline.
So you choose your pain exactly.
You prefer one or the other.
So I like it reminds me of thatlast two.
What is your favorite recentpurchase between 50 and 100 that
has impacted your life the mostin the last, let's say, six
months?
Ray (53:35):
I will say there's a lot of things that I've purchased, I
think now I realize I buy a lotof stuff.
J.R. (53:41):
Yeah, first thing that comes to mind you're like useful
, not expensive.
It helps me.
Ray (53:48):
I'll say purchasing.
I purchased one of my smallsketchbook for myself.
I had tons of sketchbook but Iwant something is very handy so
I can just carry around anywherewithout feeling a little bit
heavy or anything else.
So that actually helped me a lot, because that's how I start to
(54:12):
enjoining the art other thanthink as like as like type of
like work or responsibility,because art for me is a bit like
my favorite, but at the sametime everything is tangled, for
example, like getting thefinancial support from parents,
getting a lot of like not I'llsay expectation from my mentor,
(54:37):
or everything is not be done bymyself.
So art is, for me, is halfresponsibility, half my
motivation.
But that little sketchbookwhich is like a couple of
dollars helps me to get into theart how it was used to be like
just the love of the hobby ofthe art yeah, just as your
career in your whole life.
J.R. (54:56):
Exactly, I like it all right.
Last one any favorite books,movies, videos, articles or any
media that you share orrecommend the most?
Ray (55:05):
I think I love the one of.
It's also like the game thing.
But I love the concept art bookwhich there's a one I recently
purchased I couldn't mention itall your question because it's
like over 100.
Yeah, it was a big investmentfor me.
I purchased the one of the, thegame called sky.
It's a mobile game whichdoesn't have any text inside or
(55:29):
doesn't have any violencecontents inside.
It's more like you playing thegame and actually relaxing.
So it's like kind of stressrelieving.
Like game.
You see the beautiful, likewall building or landscape, the
colors and everything.
So I love that type of gamewhich I wanted to create in the
(55:49):
in the future.
Yeah, so I purchased that book.
It's really like mind-blowingbecause I can feel the process
of how people create the game.
Even if you are not an artist itlooks very relaxing.
It's like you don't have toread that much, but you can tell
what they're thinking.
It's like you visiting the artgallery.
J.R. (56:13):
Nice, so what was that called?
Again, so I can link it.
Ray (56:15):
The Art of Sky.
J.R. (56:18):
The Art of Sky.
Ray (56:19):
You said it's a game Okay cool.
It's a mobile game Cool.
J.R. (56:22):
I'll link to it.
Nice, all right, we havereached the end, so this is the
ending question.
So first is gratitude Shout outto my mom for teaching me this.
So, ray, what are you gratefulfor?
Ray (56:33):
I really feel grateful to having this opportunity through
JR here and I feel very gratefulthat I could have like actually
shared this type of storybecause of the people who I met
in my life and then people whotaught me, especially my mentor
and my parents.
J.R. (56:53):
I really appreciate that nice any final ask from the
audience or any final takeawaysyou want them to have from this
conversation.
Ray (57:02):
I'll say what do you like most in your life?
And then do you want to pursuethat dream or the goal, or the
love that you have in your heart?
I think that's the question.
J.R. (57:23):
So a good question to reflect on.
Yes, all right.
So last one where can we findyou, ray, if people want to
check out what you're doing orcontact you or whatever?
Ray (57:31):
I think there's a different way, but you can also visit my
linkedin.
You can just type ray lee andthen you'll see my picture, same
as the face I have here.
His face yes and then you canalso find me on.
J.R. (57:47):
Instagram.
Ray (57:48):
It's Ray Lee Art, and if you are a little bit interested
in the art, you can also go onmy portfolio website, which is
StarlightVisioncom, and there'sthat's the way you can find me.
J.R. (58:03):
Perfect, yeah, and I'll link all of it in the show notes
so they'll be able to clickthat and go to it easily.
All right.
Ray.
So we are done.
So thank you for this greatconversation and all of your
insights for our audience.
I'm sure they'll reallyappreciate it.
So I'll do my final sign off.
So thank you again to theaudience for tuning in.
Really appreciate you.
Hopefully you learned somethingReminder to always be kind to
others, especially yourself, andthat you can always learn
(58:26):
something from someone if youtake the time to listen.
So thanks for tuning in.
Thank you.
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of 1000
Gurus with me, your host, jrYonacruz.
Today's guest is Ray Lee.
Ray Lee is a concept artist,environment concept artist and
digital art teacher in LosAngeles, california.
He creates 2D concept art,including environment props,
illustration, logo and characterdesign to professional
standards, showing his designsproblem-solving quality in the
(00:22):
game and entertainment industry.
He has a passion for creatinggaming universes that captivate
players' imaginations, so thiswas a very insightful episode
and a great peek into the gameand entertainment world,
specifically in concept art.
I've known Ray for almost twoyears now and he has such a
unique story that we only barelyscratched the surface in this
recording.
But one thing I really admireabout Ray is his persistence in
(00:43):
pursuing the field and, as hementions, it's very tough to get
into.
We chat about his own journey,as well as some tips on how to
break into the industry, andthen we also talk about how AI
affects art industries like hisown.
The goal of this podcast isalways to learn about fields we
might not normally be exposed to, and this conversation
definitely hit the mark for thatobjective.
So, without further ado, pleaseenjoy this episode with Ray Lee
(01:05):
.
Hello everyone, and welcome backto 1000 Gurus.
Today's guest is Ray Lee.
Audience applause.
All right, ray, thanks forbeing here.
I really appreciate it.
I know it's, yeah, I know it'slast minute, but I'm excited to
have you on as my first game andentertainment design.
(01:27):
Artist concept artist.
Yes, yeah, there's a lot ofdifferent words in there, so I
don't want to mess it up, butyou'll know what it is by the
end of this.
So I just want to go into firsthow I know you.
We met through our mutualfriend, shasia, your former
housemate, who also helps managesocial media for my channel.
Shout out to shasia.
And so we've known each otherfor I want to say, over a year,
(01:47):
less than two, yeah, somethinglike that.
And then you graduated fromotis last year, yes, and you
invited all of us, all of mydance team, to your art showcase
, which is really great to seeeveryone else's stuff too, and
then see the school.
And then you sometimes help out, um, come to our filmings for
our dance team and stuff likethat.
So it's, we appreciate havingyou there.
Um.
(02:07):
Any other clarifications youwant to add or well, I mean,
that's pretty straightforward.
Ray (02:12):
Yeah, I just really feel grateful to be here today and
then, like whenever I offer youguys to be, like, stop by my art
show, you guys been there.
Yeah, I just feel grateful,nice cool, all right.
J.R. (02:24):
First topic, if we just want to jump straight into it,
is origin story, which isnormally what I go into first.
So this one I want to ask youfor the audience main topic is
where you grew up, maininfluences, catalysts that led
you down the path to work as aconcept artist in the gaming and
entertainment industry.
Basically, just to connect thedots from right, like the main
(02:46):
things that influenced yougrowing up to where you are now
you want to share with theaudience.
Ray (02:50):
Yeah sure, I was born in south korea, in seoul, which is
the biggest city in korea, and Ilived there until I was like
first grade and I had theopportunity to move to china, in
nanjing, with my family becausemy dad was had the award
opportunity over there in hiscompany and that's how I start
(03:14):
to being exposed to the a lot ofcultural diversities and also
like different people, likeoutside of the korea and that's
how I start to get like a littlebit interest in the art.
I was just like normal kids.
Normal kids, like just told,just have no thoughts.
But somehow the art, especiallylike a like mac design, which
(03:37):
is like a robot design, is likegrabbing towards to me, to I
want to do this kind of likedesign or drawing, but I have no
idea to how to approach it in aprofessional way.
So I always just have a likesimple idea of I want to be a
just creating the robot.
So that's how I start to aimingto the concept artist in the
end.
(03:58):
But it has a little bit of thejourney.
So I started with like thinkingabout, should I be an engineer?
Because I was kid, I don't haveany like knowledge.
So I was like engineer becauseI was a kid, I don't have any
like knowledge.
So I was like, oh sure, I wasjust trying to look for the
engineer.
So I was a little bit likestudying a little bit math stuff
and like middle school and highschool and I realized when I
was trying to apply to theuniversity engineer is not
(04:19):
really meant for designing.
It was meant for thefunctionality.
So I found it out there is anindustrial design major that
actually designed the externallike design and actually think
about the functionality at thesame time so that's how I start
to getting more serious aboutthe art.
When I was in high school Ithink it was around freshman
(04:40):
year and also that was the timeI also got back to korea because
I think, because of the familysituation, so we ended up like
staying in china like almostlike seven to eight years in
total and then moved back tokorea and that's how I start to
be more study about my futureand what I wanted to be, and
(05:04):
that's how I started to knowabout the industrial design.
In high school then I went tolike different, like after
school, like studio, to practiceand learning about the
industrial design.
But actually the korea artcollege entrance or university
is pretty much different than inthe states, because they
(05:25):
require the student to take theexam, which is like four hours
it will probably different thannowadays and they always give a
kind of topic and you have torender the image exactly same,
with a slight bit of thecomposition, with a limited
amount of the composition, withthe limited amount of the medium
(05:45):
art medium they provide, whichwill be a post color or
watercolor color pencil.
That's pretty much it.
So it was really boring.
To be honest, I didn't reallylove to practice, but I have the
, the goal that I want to belike designing the robot.
So I thought this is like astep stone for me to get over it
(06:07):
.
So I was like investing a lotof time to be like past the exam
.
But unfortunately, when it'sthe time I took the test, I got
on the wait list on the collegeand I couldn't get make it in
the final.
So that was the time I was likealready made my mind I should
(06:29):
study abroad if I have a chance.
I was having a discussion withmy parents and I was.
Thankfully, my parents allowedme to prepare the board like art
colleges and the estates, whichis like oldest college that I
graduated, and there's anotherlike great art college called
the art center college.
So I was applied those twocollege in the end and I got
(06:52):
accepted both of them.
But I realized I have amandatory military service as a
korean citizenship.
So I was like you know what?
I will go to the otis becauseit's close to the airport and
they have a dorm.
That was pretty simple reason oh, I see, yeah, and that's how I
(07:13):
went ended up going to the otisother than the art center.
I was like pretty enjoyed thefreshman year, like in oldest,
because it was, everything wasso new.
Yeah, and I was being my bymyself first time in my life and
I'm only like pursuing art andart related like classes.
(07:34):
I think that was like for meit's like a playground.
J.R. (07:38):
So so then, like you so going from like, from when
you're younger, it seemed likeyou were always drawn to like
art, and not so much, like yousaid, like engineering or like
functionality, but more likedesign but you think that's just
how your brain works.
Ray (07:54):
I really want to create art as opposed to like more of a
science sort of major yeah, Ithink because whenever I see the
like car design outside on thestreet or some kind of like a
gadget that we are using forfixing something, I just like
thinking about.
This design looks very cool,but I want to break it down in a
(08:15):
logical way and I want to makeit my style.
That's how I start to get likeinteresting and it's like you're
always intrigued with likedesign of different things yeah,
it makes sense.
J.R. (08:25):
So then you said so, you said you went to otis.
Was that before your militaryservice?
Yes okay, so then you went tootis and then military, and then
you came back to otis.
Yes, oh, okay, I didn't knowthat.
I always thought, and so otiswas is it considered
undergraduate or yes, they areokay.
So you did undergraduate forhow long?
At Otis?
Ray (08:44):
Four years, four years, and then you did military for two
years, yes, two years, and thenplus with the one year of the
pandemic COVID.
Oh, and then you came back forthe graduate program no it's
almost like continuing theundergrad program.
So I finished my freshman yearbefore the military.
J.R. (09:01):
Then I got back as the sophomore year to like finish my
BFA like program Okay, so howmany years is that?
Ray (09:10):
Total, yeah, total, and you mean including the military.
J.R. (09:12):
Oh, I guess, if you subtract the military, how much
is school?
Ray (09:15):
Oh, just four.
Okay, so four total.
Okay, gotcha.
J.R. (09:25):
So you just finished the four years maybe this isn't real
or maybe not.
A lot of people who arelistening to this know what
korean military services.
Yes, I mean, we hear about it.
I guess my friends and I weknow that we follow k-pop
artists and they have theirmilitary service and it's like a
deadline for them to do theirentertainment stuff in the
military.
So I don't know if you can givelike an overview or a tldr of
what korean military servicesand then maybe how that affected
you or how that affected yourcareer, if at all, or just give
(09:45):
us a look into what it's like.
Ray (09:47):
I think overall, the military service gave me a life
lesson to how to like adjustmyself in a very different
environment that I don't want itto be like keep getting exposed
to the community or the peoplethey are not really like you but
we have to stick together fortwo years.
J.R. (10:09):
Like working with different people Exactly
Different environments.
Ray (10:12):
It actually taught me a lot of different types of like
social skills to like workingwith the other people in a
different situation and thebackground situation.
And the background, becauseinside the military it doesn't
matter where you were before orwhat's your job before it
doesn't matter yeah, everyone'sjust even equal, exactly
(10:33):
everyone's same.
I think that was a uniqueexperience for me to understand
person to person.
That was a really great likepoint of view me to having in my
life right now.
Actually that helps me to startto understand myself a little
bit more, because whenever Iinteract with the like limited
amount of people, I can see thepattern of my actions and my
(10:57):
thoughts, but that actually giveme a kind of signal, I'll say,
to tell me like, oh, this isyour one of the bad character
you should like they don't pointit out, but they will say in a
different way.
But I have to filter out tounderstand oh, this is the one
that I need to like figure outby myself.
But honestly, it took me a lotof time.
(11:19):
I think I realized in the end ofthe almost end of the military
service, like in in thebeginning, in the middle, I was
more like into myself, like alittle bit more self-centered.
So I was like it's like weirdto hearing this from like people
around me.
I don't want to be here.
But I realized if I have morenegative mindset, I can't do
(11:42):
anything outside of the militarytoo.
So I figure out to be keepmyself busy in the military,
because military means likeeverything is unified and you
have to do the same, like workhour and everything.
But there's always way youcould sign up for like
individual contests you want.
Like, for example, Iparticipate on like creating the
(12:04):
idea about the military, likemobile application, like contest
ideas, stuff.
I also did that by myself, so Iactually had a little bit more
extra time to study and also inthe military?
yeah, in the military, okay sothey actually provide you those
type of opportunities.
Yeah, you can like work byyourself or you actually
(12:25):
volunteer to going for, liketranslating the english or some
of the events inside themilitary.
Yeah, I think that kind ofhelps me to keep it busy inside,
other than I just regret myselfto be inside the military and
then just spending time as likehow not every people but some of
people who spend just it feelslike regretful way like they're
(12:47):
wasting time or something right,they just like spending their
day.
What other people told to do?
J.R. (12:53):
oh I see is it, would you say it's difficult.
I don't know what it's like, Iknow there's like a military.
It seems like physicalcomponent right like maybe you
need to.
There's you need to be in shapeand athletic to a certain
degree, but also there's a lotof, like you said, uniform stuff
.
Maybe you're doing like I don'tknow office administrative type
(13:13):
stuff.
I don't know what that's like.
Ray (13:15):
Of course everyone have their own like assigned position
For me.
I was originally signed up asthe culinary like specialist, so
I was supposed to be likeparticipate on cooking for
everyone in my base.
Oh, I see.
But since my background waskind of unique, so one of my
officer offered me to go to thedifferent like position
(13:36):
temporarily inside the base.
J.R. (13:37):
That kind of allows, so you can like a little bit
twisted, even if it's youalready have assigned position
yeah, so I was working as a, so,like they, can they assign you
sort of based on what yourbackground is yeah okay they can
like use some of the people forin a like.
Ray (13:54):
It's kind of weird to say better way, but it's more on
their like, using their skillsright like a more effective use
of that person yeah, and thenparticipate on their like base
performance and everything.
Yeah, so I was assigned as theone of human resource specialist
, okay, so I can actually managethe document and plus, sometime
I get the opportunity to doingthe english translate or some of
(14:18):
the military event that I canbe like, speak out loud, but
yeah, those kind of stuff yeahquick backtrack tangent.
J.R. (14:25):
But you said you lived in china for six years yeah, almost
like six seven do you speakchinese or mandarin or something
?
Ray (14:32):
not anymore, as how I was used to be, so you did a little
bit yeah just like the same.
It's like more you can.
J.R. (14:40):
It's like a middle school ish like Like maybe
conversational, but just getaround.
Ray (14:45):
Yeah, or for just studying purpose, because when I was in
international school in China,they have amended classes every
hour to take a Chinese class, sowe have to study and take an
exam.
Luckily, I could expose to moreChinese to learn in a better
(15:06):
way, but after I like left toChina, I had less time to speak
or study about it.
Also, I didn't have the passionto like keep the language level
right right right, but right nowI can only listen and have a
little bit of the speaking levelthat I can like, bare minimum
traveling around to.
J.R. (15:21):
China, so you can at least understand when people are
talking yeah, gotcha, that'scool, okay.
So, um, it's time to pivot alittle bit or at least go into
now the meat of the conversation, which is your expertise, which
is, um, game and entertainmentdesign.
I know just to connect it.
You mentioned, you know, whatyou learned from military is
like adapting and being indifferent environments, and then
(15:42):
a wholeher topic could be likeyou moving to the States and
adapting to that, and we'vetalked personally about that
experience.
But now you are in the game andentertainment design industry
and one of the topics you wantedto talk about was what the
field is like, what you'velearned, what is it like being
an international Korean studentand then breaking into the
(16:03):
industry?
Are there any parts of that youwant to start with?
Ray (16:06):
first, I can start with the like as a student point of view
.
Yeah, of course, this industryis very challenging for everyone
, including me, because gameentertainment design industry
required the artist to be aalmost semi-perfect general
artists.
Because it involves the fashiondesign knowledge, graphic
(16:27):
design and some of theindustrial design,
transportation design, productdesign, so and plus with the
liberal of the illustrations, soeverything has to be like
merged in one spot it's like acombination of all those
different exactly that's crazyactually, now that you put it
that way, like wait, you do needto know all those, you can't?
J.R. (16:46):
just I like to color right no you have to know design for
a lot of different thingsexactly.
Ray (16:50):
So you have to understand the art aspect and the design
aspect at the same time tocreate your work.
So that's why this industry hasthe like really high bar.
Of course other industry alsohave the high bar, but for this
one is it's pretty tough for theart students to actually aiming
for becoming a professionalartist, and I think, as a korean
(17:13):
as a korean male for sure, notthe female people.
But we have to consider aboutthe mandatory military service,
because a lot of people go toart college abroad around their
20s.
So most of the people didn'tfigure out their military
service.
So we have to a little bit setup the plan.
Do I want to pursue my career inthe States or do I want to just
(17:37):
go back to Korea to pursue mycareer?
I think that's how we begin.
Probably there are people whojust want to go back after they
earn their degree, or there'speople wanting to gain the
experience and looking for thefuture opportunity more in the
States.
So for me it was like thesecond one.
So after I choose that path, Ihave to try to make some of the
(18:02):
connection.
Thankfully, I had the bigopportunity to meet my current
mentor, who taught me all theskill and all the knowledge to
build my art skill where I'm atright now.
I think that was the biggesthelp for me to get into this
industry in a very smooth way,because and otherwise we have to
(18:29):
spend a lot of time to find outthe mentor or find out the
people who are in the industryto get some of the information
that is very crucial before youactually preparing yourself to
be like wanting to be a conceptartist so there's a high bar.
J.R. (18:44):
I'm just rephrasing everything.
So there's a very high bar it'svery difficult to break into
and then, as a koreaninternational student or a
korean male korean citizen, youhave to consider your long-term
sort of career path, how youwant to deal with that.
But also you're mentioning thathaving a mentor was huge for
you to guide you through thatprocess because it's so
challenging and difficult.
Ray (19:03):
Right, and to get you to guide you through that process
because it's so challenging anddifficult right and to get you
to where you are now, and Ithink after I met my mentor, it
was everything was pretty, likeI'll say it's not easy, but
everything was like, not likeblind spot for me, like I know
where I should go based on whathe already went through.
J.R. (19:24):
So there's clarity, it's not easy but at least you have
an idea of where to go.
Ray (19:28):
Yeah, exactly.
J.R. (19:29):
I was going to ask you what are some of the biggest
takeaways you learned from yourmentor to breaking into the
industry.
Ray (19:35):
I think the constancy of practicing myself, the art skill
and, plus with you, take careof yourself well.
I think those two aspects isvery important as the artist,
because even if you, even if I,participate on the commercial
art base, still it's an art, soit also impact by the our
(19:59):
emotions and our thoughts, so weneed a good amount of the mind
controlling.
So I think that aspect Ilearned a lot from him while I'm
like having a mentorship classwith him, and then he also gave
me a feedback which is actuallyhe can tell through my like
(20:19):
practice assignment that I likehow I was thinking and how I
felt in that way.
J.R. (20:26):
So, yeah, I think that's why I think those two, like
mindset, is very important soyou said consistency, so like
continuously practicing and likebuilding your art and getting
better.
But also you said taking careof yourself is important.
Yes, like in taking care ofyourself.
In what way?
Ray (20:44):
more.
Do not doubt about yourself youknow.
Okay, that is very importantfor everyone, for sure.
But when you doubt yourself alot as the artist, you start to
like, forget about like how todraw weird experience, and then
people call that as like artblock it's like a yeah, it's a
block, like a mind block exactlywriter's block like choreo
(21:04):
block, every block right allpeople who are participating the
art like aspect have those likestruggling experience.
So if you wanted to prevent that, you have to take care of
yourself.
Oh, it's just, you're at themoment of trying to get better
and then it is hard to see theprogress, the result of the
(21:26):
progress like, right after youpractice.
So you have to keep trustingyourself that you will get in
better, but keep aware that it'sam I going in the right
direction or not?
So that's why having a mentorwas a great experience for me.
J.R. (21:42):
My question was maybe you answered it but like, how does
someone overcome that self-doubt, and so you?
I think you just said right,it's having the faith that
you're trusting yourself, butalso that going, getting
guidance, that you're going theright direction, but also
reflecting and also taking careof your like your yourself in
general.
Is there anything else that youwould recommend on how to
(22:02):
eliminate that self-doubt orkeep moving forward?
Ray (22:05):
I think you have to trying to find out your way to get rid
of the stress okay because a lotof people have a different way
to get rid of the stress right.
Some people like to go fordancing class, even if they're
artists, or some people like togo for hiking or running or just
walking outside on the street.
(22:26):
For me, I like to walk aroundthe street because that kind of
helps me to tracking down mylike emotion.
I think I learned thisknowledge from one of the book I
forgot what it was, but it wastalking about.
The skandavian people are usedto go for a walk when they get
(22:47):
emotional and then they justkeep walking until they feel
like their emotion is settled.
And once they feel like theiremotion is settled, they turn
back and then walking backexactly how they walk.
J.R. (23:01):
So the same path, yeah, until they're done.
They're like now they're.
Then they turn around and dothe whole thing back gotcha, and
so you can reflect yourself.
Ray (23:07):
Why did I feel this?
So much like angry, or why didI feel so struggle?
I think that helps me to go fora walk in that aspect okay, I
want to go back to.
J.R. (23:19):
I think we you really gave a lot of good advice in general
, like, as an artist, how toovercome those blocks and stuff
like that.
Do you have any specific advicethat you've learned or insights
along the way that helped youto break into the industry?
Or I know you mentionedpreparing a concept art
portfolio.
Maybe what has helped you themost or what is one big advice
(23:39):
you'd give to someone who wantsto break into the industry?
Ray (23:42):
I think that's really a good question For me.
I think, one important thingthat I can mention in the
beginning will be trying to findyour motivation to want to
become a concept artist.
Do you really want to be aconcept artist or are you just
pursuing the unicorn of yourselfof being an artist?
(24:03):
Because I think this is what Iheard from people in the
industry that there's twostudents if they have to teach,
like they said, the first onewill be have like great amount
to gift it and they're good atworking, like practicing
everything, but they don't havemotivation.
But the second student has thehuge motivation but doesn't have
(24:27):
any skill and surprisingly,they will take the second
student because the motivationis the where no one could make
them to be like motivated tokeep pursuing the art career by
themselves.
So that's why I think, tryingto find out your core motivation
(24:48):
, why you want to be a conceptartist in the game industry,
then I think you could find away to get to the professional
level in a different like path Ilike that a lot, so
self-awareness know, whatmotivates you, know why you're
in the industry, and that'lltake you far.
J.R. (25:05):
And if not, you're like wait, maybe I'm not motivated.
Maybe I should try to pivotsomewhere else, that's.
I think that's really goodadvice anything else on, so I
want to.
The next topic that I want topivot to is the impact of ai on
game and entertainment designindustry.
Ray (25:22):
But any other last thoughts on just in general, like
breaking into the industry orany lessons that you learn you
want to touch on I think the oneof the big lesson is you have
to be pro active once you areabout to get graduated or even
if you're in a college year,trying to get keep touch with
your not only a school people.
(25:43):
You're trying to go through thelinkedin like professional
website or art station which isprofessional, like community for
the concept artists oranimation industry people.
You could visit there and thentrying to comment on their work,
or you can send a privatemessage to them to get it
understand about what's going onin the industry.
Most of people will be likefriendly.
(26:06):
Some people are very busy sothey will probably forget to
respond to you back.
But don't get discouraged,trying to be like proactive and
be nice to people out there,because even to your like
friends next to you in thecollege, because in the end you
don't know, your friends willwork in the different industry
(26:28):
or maybe your friends can't getthe job faster than you so they
might have the recommendation toyou later.
So that's why the connection isthe key point so.
J.R. (26:38):
So persistence and finding those opportunities, being
proactive, but also building anetwork.
Be nice, don't burn bridges,obviously, because you never
know where that one connectioncould open a door opportunity
for you.
Exactly Nice, I like it, allright.
So now moving on to AI.
So, like I mentioned before westarted, recording is, let's say
(27:01):
, let's assume that maybe mostpeople don't really know the
impacts or what AI is in art andon specifically on your
industry.
Maybe a general exposure to AIis oh, now we're seeing all
these weird AI generated artimages online and obviously
that's directly in your industry, right, because you do design
(27:22):
art.
I wanted to ask the firstquestion is could you, like,
paint a picture I guess punintended for what the industry
looks like or what ai is?
How does that look like in yourindustry?
Ray (27:33):
I think it's.
Of course, everyone will have adifferent like thoughts, but
what I hear from my people inthe industry and what I
experience, it's more like 60,40, like 64 people who are
trying to keep the humanactually participating on
creating the pre-production work, which is like concept work,
(27:56):
and for these we should adapt,as part of the tools, tools to
reduce the amount of the timethat we have to spend on the
pre-production time so we canactually make a better quality
and better work.
I think that's the two opinionright now in the industry.
J.R. (28:12):
That makes a lot of sense.
So I guess, if I'munderstanding this correctly,
let's say the 40% is saying well, we have scientific calculators
, might as well use it to helpwith the process of the
pre-production design work.
But you're saying 60 are likeno, let's keep ai out of it and
let's keep the human side of itfor the pre-production work
where I don't know where do youpersonally fall on that?
Do you think that it's more ofa hindrance or do you think it
(28:33):
would help?
Ray (28:35):
for art.
I think it depends on thesituation, Because the reason
why a lot of people are doubtabout the AI like open resources
, like those systems becausethey can actually paint and then
create a different visualreference or creating one game.
(28:55):
However, they cannot reach thelevel of actually designing or
creating the design variationfor the certain like nda, like
game ip that's what like a lotof people think about because we
can purchase the database fromlike open ai resource company
because it's meant for open.
So it's hard to keep it as ndabecause eventually the machine
(29:19):
will expose in a sort of way tothe public when everyone's are
using it in the same database solike the NDA art side of it,
like the ownership of that artis compromised by using AI in
that sort of sense, like opensource right.
J.R. (29:34):
I guess that that makes a lot of sense, because I was
going to ask what are thedownsides of using AI for
pre-production work, anythingelse on how it's currently
affecting the industry.
So you said there's two schoolsof thought, but how does that
affect you as someone in theindustry or people going into
the industry?
What are the mainconsiderations for how it's
shifting?
Ray (29:55):
I think, since one of the strong tools, the new tool which
is AI.
Ai has a great like paintingskill, which means for the art
concept artists it's requiredyou to you have better painting
quality like than the ai,because ai will quickly paint it
for you like a mood painting,but you have to paint on top of
(30:18):
the ai painting to finalize thepainting in the end and then
including your design languageinside.
So I think that also brings upthe bar more higher than before.
That's why it's more tough forgetting a job out there and
especially for a lot of gamecompanies run by a different
investor and I think a lot ofinvestors are trying to the
(30:40):
different investor and I think alot of investor trying to
invest the like the budgetduring the covid season because
a lot of people can't go outside, so most of people looking for
a way to like spending theirtime inside, like their house,
so a lot of people actually playa lot of different games.
So that's how the businesspeople might thought it would be
(31:00):
a great idea to invest themoney to earn the profit.
But in the end, after like thecovid pandemic goes down a
little bit and people startedgoing back to where they were
before, now it's for them it'slike kind of question mark and
then, plus with the ai, likejust got off from the public and
(31:21):
now they think that the gametakes like almost like 6 years
to develop to make a triple Agame quality.
Is it worth it to investing somuch money on the artist or
pre-production people to createthe one triple A title game.
So I think that's why there'sless job market and also it
(31:43):
requires a lot of skill and thatend up doesn't have a lot of
junior position or mid-levelposition in the game industry.
J.R. (31:52):
Oh, I see.
So the skill level or the barfor skill is higher, so there's
less job opportunities.
But also, like you said, thegaming industry shrank after
covid after all the investors.
I had a friend on lyndon whowas on episode six talking about
the game industry and I waslike, yeah, the covid, all the
investors are putting money intothe gaming industry and then,
after it died out, that's shrunkup again and so you're saying
(32:15):
like the bar is higher butthere's also less money into it.
So I guess what considerationswould you give for someone who's
interested in going into theindustry?
I know you're saying that it'sa higher bar, so definitely be
prepared to learn more skills,be even better.
You have to in order to breakin.
Any other considerations forpeople who want to be in the
industry?
Ray (32:32):
I think it connects to the thought where I said before.
It's like you need theconstancy and your motivation,
which means you have to spend alot of time on practicing the
fundamental art skills toactually creating your own like
art portfolio, because in theend you might like love to do
(32:53):
certain like game ip that youwanted to work in that game
studio, however, you need tolearn about the fundamental art
skills, which is illustrationskill, design skills.
That has to be like very fluent,like inside your body, so it's
like muscle memory, so you don'thave to be struggle every time
you're doing the new project.
You have to be always likeready to go.
(33:14):
So I think that's why theconstancy and your motivation is
the key point to prepareyourself to apply for the job in
the industry right now.
J.R. (33:23):
Okay, so consistency and motivation, but also like
patience too, because I'm sureit'll take a long time.
Oh, yeah, absolutely I mean youcould get lucky, obviously but,
it's crazy.
Through this conversation I'mrealizing now that as much as
people say like art and scienceor like technical and artistic
industries but it seems likeyour industry is very much also
(33:43):
very technical because there'sso many things you need to learn
about it.
You can't just pick up apaintbrush and just make
something.
It's there's also so much thatgoes into it, especially in your
industry.
So I feel like there, I don'tknow, I feel like there should
be a deep appreciation for that.
But all not only that, but ifyou're using ai as a tool for
that work, it is like at leasthalf technical, which is kind of
(34:06):
crazy.
But I guess that my thoughtsare that it would ideally make
the industry better I guess asan end product for a consumer.
But I'm just thinking out loudokay, that's crazy, because the
bar is getting higher.
There's better tools, so maybeyou can be more efficient.
But I guess, as someone in theindustry, you're like okay, well
(34:26):
, it's also harder, but you canbreak in.
You just have to be consistentand whatnot?
Motivated.
Ray (34:33):
I think as the current junior level of the concept
artist, I think you have to be avery strong about your
fundamental art skill againbecause in the end some of the
major company are attempt tousing the ai program to develop
their own game ip.
But that means are you areready to like paint over on the
(34:57):
ai's work to make it better thanai.
That's the big assignment forthe current like concept artists
.
So most of like mid and seniorlevel people already like
prepared, it's like part oftheir job, so it's not a big of
like issue for them.
Of course they'll get a lot ofstress because they get less
(35:19):
appreciated about their workbecause even if they have a
really good amount of the goodquality and plus with the speed
of the work, a lot of peoplelike on the top side, people who
are deciding the business andeverything, will think that why
does it take you so long?
Can you make it a little bitmore faster?
J.R. (35:34):
yeah, because everyone couldn't know yeah everyone
could know each people's story.
Ray (35:46):
So that's why I think it's better to be better than the AI.
It is hard, but once you'refocusing on the fundamental art
skills, there will always be away for you to get better.
J.R. (35:56):
But I think that's the most challenging part for
everyone, or, as the juniorlevel people I see all right
anything else on on the impactof ai and game and entertainment
design industry or anyconsiderations for the audience
or even in general for breakingin again.
There might be people out therewho are like really intrigued
(36:18):
and they want to break in, butnow it's the advice is it's hard
right?
But, work on your foundationalart skill, obviously because
that's very important as anartist.
So I don't want to make itsound so bleak, but that's just
the reality of it right.
Ray (36:30):
Any other insights that you , or topics or insights you want
to touch on in there that youfeel like is important I think,
if I break it down a little bitprecise way, I'll say so if you
decide to be a like conceptartist in the game industry,
then you have to find out likekind of big two things.
One is like a little bit easyway to say, but like yours, not
(36:53):
your art style, like what kindof stylization of the work that
you want to pursue in yourportfolio.
For example, for me I like todo my little bit like cute and
chibi, but which is japaneseterm?
It's like really small size,like sd characters, like
environment or like character orprop design for the mobile game
(37:16):
industry.
That's the one of thestylization.
And the one is, like a lot ofpeople will know, like riot
games, blizzard entertainment,like the game style, like
graphical style is the kind oflike a semi-realistic we count
as a semi-realistic stylization.
And then after thehyper-realistic one is like a
call of duty or naughty dogs,like games.
(37:40):
Those like three is the thingthat you have to decide which
one you are more interested andif you choose one from there
it'll be all depends if youchoose the riot games or
blizzard entertainment, like ourstyle, or the mobile game, our
style you have to be really goodat like handly, like digital
paint, so, which requires a lotof fundamental art skills.
(38:01):
That will be just bare minimum.
So, which is unfair for thejunior level artists, because
junior level, which means, likeyou can have opportunity to
learn from the work environment,but this environment is always
like fast paced environment, soit requires you to be ready to
go candidly.
So I think that's the the keypart.
(38:21):
And if you wanted to go tonaughty dog or more hyper
realistic, like a film filmingstyle, then you have to
understand about how to edit thephoto they call as a photo
bashing oh, I see skills.
Basically, you still need thefundamental art skill again, but
you know how to manipulate alldifferent type of photo that you
(38:44):
find on the online and you makea one object.
It could be a character, itcould be a marmon, it could be a
props it depends on what you'reworking, but that's the another
path that you have to choose.
So that's like how you breakdown the strategy in the end and
then that's how you will createyour portfolio based on that
path oh, I see.
J.R. (39:04):
Yeah, so it is like a choose your character, choose
your career path and you go downthat career path but there's,
like you said, the three sort ofmajor areas.
Yeah, then you pick that sortof pathway, design style and
then you figure out there'sdifferent skill sets but, like
you said, your foundational artskills are important, but but
along the path you learn deviate, different skill sets as well
(39:27):
yes gotcha.
It's interesting, I didn't knowthat, but that makes a lot of
sense.
Um, cool, anything else, beforewe go on to rapid fire
questions, last little tidbitsof nuggets you feel would be, I
think.
Ray (39:41):
I just hope people don't get like um easily give up.
J.R. (39:45):
It's too late, they're already they change majors.
Ray (39:49):
They're like oh this ray dude, I'm changing my major as a
first year it's just if youhave a good enough of the
motivation and you will getthere.
But it is tough, like it istough for me right now, because
I also work as digital artteacher.
Right now I'm not like directlyworking in the game industry,
(40:09):
but I'm still seeking for theopportunity, but I just put
myself out there trying to getlike close to exposed to the
game industry.
Of course, education, oureducation and the game is
definitely a different field,but it's like you expose
yourself to doing the art asyour.
It could be a part-time or itcould be a contract, still
working on the art, but on theside, trying to enjoy what you
(40:33):
are, working like your art,practicing by yourself, because
once you get out from the school, of course you have all the
freedom, yeah, but there is awhere you get tested by yourself
.
Are you willing to be a artist?
Did you really had thatmotivation, as before?
J.R. (40:50):
yeah, you motivated to go out there now that you're on
your own gotcha yeah, no, that'sgood.
I appreciate that, especiallyhammering home, like the main
ideas you're saying.
Which is what's yourmotivations and can you be
consistent enough?
Okay, ready for rapid fire?
Yeah, nice, this is the funpart.
All right, so first question,billboard question.
If you could put up a sign formillions of people to see, what
(41:11):
would it say?
Ray (41:13):
Kind of difficult question for me.
J.R. (41:16):
Hire me, just kidding.
Honestly, that works too to tobe honest, I'm a little bit like
want it to work yeah, is it,you can that can be your answer,
if you want, and then a pictureof your face with chibi
character yeah, my portfoliowebsite hyperlink like or like a
qr code yes nice, cool, we'llgo with that.
(41:38):
Then, what is one of thehardest challenges you faced in
your life and what did you learnfrom it?
Ray (41:43):
I think having a decision whenever you take a big step it
could be not a big step when Iturn it back and look around, it
was a part of the journey.
I think the way I decide myselfto should I finish the high
school in China as theinternational student or do I
(42:06):
want to go back to Korea, whichis totally different, like
education environment moreintense, Asian education system
is more intense, and then youhave an actual true friend.
What I mean by true friend islike when I was in China
everyone's from differentcountries, so eventually you
(42:28):
don't have actual friends.
You can see them often or laterafter you graduate the school.
It's more like everyone's livingtheir own life in a different
country, like a little temporarysort of, yeah, and it will be
very like hard to like keep intouch either each other, even if
we have, like social media andeverything.
Yeah, that's why I decided togo to high school in korea other
(42:51):
than I just like pursuing tofinish the high school program
in china and then I actuallyearned a lot of friendship and
then experience how to likebeing in an intense, like
education environment to besurvived, which is have a
mentality, I think, likewhenever something is like hits
(43:14):
on me, I have, I can be likeready myself to be OK, this is
the moment, so let's take a deepbreath and then let's go for it
.
J.R. (43:23):
I think those mindset so the challenges helped you build
that mindset, gotcha.
Next one is self-inflictedwound.
Do you have a story aboutsomething that's gone wrong in
your life?
That's your own fault and youcan't blame anyone because you
did it to yourself?
Ray (43:42):
own fault and you can't blame anyone because you did it
to yourself.
I think right now I don't feellike too embarrassed anymore,
but when I was in china Icouldn't even speak any english
at all, like at all, like Icouldn't even spell alphabet in
the order.
So I was very like numbed andoverwhelmed in the new
environment and I think at thetime racism and a lot of
(44:10):
unfortunate thing was, I'll say,semi-default.
It was not a major issue as howit is right now.
The school was counting me asoh, this student has language
disorder, so we have to put thestudent to the special class,
like special care needs studentclass.
But I think the approach wasvery like awkward for me, even
if I think about it right nowbecause whenever we finish the
(44:31):
the homeroom like time, theycall me out in front of the
student and then they take me tothe special care needs student
classroom.
But that classroom location isalso a question mark because
it's fully see-through, likeglass door, if I have to put it
(44:51):
in a little bit bad way I'll saylike a zoo.
Oh, I see, yeah, and it'slocated in the middle of the
hallway, because myinternational school was like
from kindergarten to high school, so it's like a big hallway,
like a company.
So that's why for me it wasvery embarrassing and constantly
getting overwhelmed and a lotof kids in that age are not
(45:14):
understanding what is wrong andright Most people just follow.
What other people?
Are saying a lot of classmatewas, yeah, being mean and then
talking about like bad thingsabout me, like that you're not
really good at studying.
J.R. (45:26):
Yeah, like especially from the korean community back in
the time was it something thatyou did to yourself, or is that
what?
Ray (45:32):
you're, I'll say I should study more hard if I put my
myself a little bit more in aharsh way.
Oh yeah, okay yeah.
J.R. (45:38):
So you're like, okay, I probably should have studied
more, but it was in a veryembarrassing and bad situation
for you.
Ray (45:43):
I was already pressured by being embarrassed.
Yeah, gotcha.
If you could redo one thingwhat would you do differently?
That's a really good question,because I was trying to think
about that before, but when Irealized I think is that really
important to like redo something?
(46:04):
Or going back in the past andthen thinking about it, yeah.
J.R. (46:07):
So let's say you had to redo something as a thought
experiment, because most of myguests are the same.
They're like I bad thingshappen but I'm so glad for it,
because now I'm the way I am,but as a thought experiment if
you could redo something, whatwould you redo?
Ray (46:20):
If I really have to choose it, I'll say I want to practice
art a little bit more earlier,when I was younger.
Sooner, when I was even inChina, I should just doodle
something.
Oh, I see, just keep myselfdrawing something.
J.R. (46:35):
Oh, okay, you didn't start drawing or doing art until
later.
Ray (46:38):
Yeah, Actually I started practicing after drawing and
stuff was from freshman year inhigh school.
J.R. (46:45):
Oh, I see that makes sense .
If you could give your youngerself advice, what would it be
now?
Any age, any time period, I'llsay be honest, from like how
young?
Or just any time young.
Ray (46:59):
Any time, honestly, I'll say any age.
I just want to see me honestand then true to yourself.
I think that's the two partthat I want to tell to my old
age nice.
J.R. (47:13):
Is that because you feel like you weren't really as
honest as you wanted to be whenyou're younger?
Ray (47:17):
oh, yeah, I did.
Yeah, I was because I wasalways get overwhelmed by the
fact that how I get evaluated inthe public, I think the big of
trigger was like how Iexperienced in international
school in the first place waslike triggering me a lot.
I tend to hype myself a lot,like at that point I didn't
really know who I am.
(47:37):
I just wanted to representmyself as just like decent, good
person, good friend, and then Ididn't really think about do I
actually need this or is itreally necessary?
It's more like for survivingpurpose.
J.R. (47:55):
So you felt like you had to look good, be decent,
presentable, but you felt likeyou were putting up a mask or
something yeah, you weren'tbeing as honest as you wanted to
be right, that makes sense.
In the last few years, what newbelief, behavior or habit has
improved your life?
Ray (48:11):
thing, there's a lot of things for me, but one of the
biggest thing was is actuallyunderstanding about myself a
little bit more in a deeperlevel, because I tend to have a
lot of emotional disconnectionabout myself because of, like,
where am I at?
Because most of the time Ididn't really stay in the one
(48:34):
physical environment.
I was being in a differentcountry always, always exposed
in different society, so that'swhy I was like I don't have time
to feel about this at thatmoment.
The emotion that is hitting me.
For example, whenever I left thecountry or left the place, I
didn't feel sad, because Ialways talk to myself I don't
(48:55):
have time to be sad.
J.R. (48:56):
You're always, constantly, moving doing something, so you
have no time to feel that.
So what was the?
You said the behavior or beliefwas sorry.
What was it again?
Ray (49:05):
um, it's more be I'll say like transparent with myself,
okay yeah, how does one be moretransparent with themselves?
J.R. (49:15):
let's say I'm asking as a person okay, I want to be okay,
I want to be more transparent, Iwant to be more honest.
How does one become more honest?
Ray (49:21):
I think there's a point where you realize that, oh, I'm
doing the bad thing over again.
At that moment I think I justswallow the words or I just
pause myself and then I feelvery awkward myself, A little
bit cringe or something.
Oh, I see.
J.R. (49:41):
You can feel it when you yeah, not being like completely
honest or transparent.
Ray (49:44):
Yeah, it's like more hefty the sense and if that hits me
and I just pause myself, wait aminute.
I was like if I do this again,it'll be same again.
And then, even if that makes mewell, if I, even if that will
makes me embarrassed at thatmoment, I just let it be, even
if that makes me embarrassed atthat moment.
J.R. (50:02):
I just let it be.
I see it's like being moreaware of yourself, your
intuition, what you do and whatyou say, how it makes you feel
Right, and then taking a pauseto reflect on that.
I like it.
Who would you call successfuland how do you define success?
Ray (50:18):
Wow, that's really a good question.
I'll say people I don't havelike single person, but people
who out there are being a dadand then managing their family
financial-wise, emotional-wise,everything, and then trying to
(50:39):
live their life peacefully.
I think that is very for meemotional-wise everything, and
then trying to live their lifepeacefully.
I think that is very for me.
It's very admirable for me tobe that type of.
I'll say A dad figure likemaintaining your household Right
it's not more like manly dad,it's more like the dad has the
full accountability, beingreliable and accountable,
exactly.
J.R. (51:01):
Like being there and stuff like that.
More actual, like adult.
So that's how you definesuccess is like someone who can
portray that in their own lifethat's like good dad energy, yes
, cool.
If you knew you couldn't fail,what would you try or what would
you be doing now?
Ray (51:17):
uh, could you rephrase that question?
J.R. (51:19):
yeah, so if you could do anything and you knew you would
succeed, what would you betrying?
Would it be different?
Would it be the same?
Would there be some new things?
Ray (51:29):
like I've always been curious about doing that thing I
think I will try to pursuebecoming a like a not like
completely like a finding finedining, like chef or working in
the fine dining industry,because I always love to do
cooking on the side, because alot of my part-time job was like
(51:53):
being in the food like workingthe kitchen section and a
different like cuisine.
So I always thought the uh,cooking is part of the art.
So maybe that's why I thinkthat what if I was like working
on the you know, culinaryindustry so in a different
universe.
J.R. (52:11):
You're still an artist, but now in culinary nice.
What is one of the best or mostworthwhile investments you've
ever made in either time?
Ray (52:20):
money or energy or etc I think the best investment was
maybe having a decision to comeall the way to the states, even
if it's I don't have anyone elseto know.
Like anyone else, I I know hereI just take the big step to
having the adventure and ofcourse I at the time my art
(52:42):
skills and everything as myselfwas.
Everything was like like Ididn't.
I wasn't fully prepared and butI strongly felt that if I don't
give a try, I feel like I'llregret or I'll be just living in
the past.
So I was like I'll try my fullpotential out there and if I get
(53:05):
any type of result, in the end,I'll accept it and then I'll
move forward to the differentthing that I need to figure out
in my life.
J.R. (53:14):
I like it.
You know that quote to thatsaying, which is like there's
only two pain in life.
There's the pain of regret andthe pain of discipline.
So you choose your pain exactly.
You prefer one or the other.
So I like it reminds me of thatlast two.
What is your favorite recentpurchase between 50 and 100 that
has impacted your life the mostin the last, let's say, six
months?
Ray (53:35):
I will say there's a lot of things that I've purchased, I
think now I realize I buy a lotof stuff.
J.R. (53:41):
Yeah, first thing that comes to mind you're like useful
, not expensive.
It helps me.
Ray (53:48):
I'll say purchasing.
I purchased one of my smallsketchbook for myself.
I had tons of sketchbook but Iwant something is very handy so
I can just carry around anywherewithout feeling a little bit
heavy or anything else.
So that actually helped me a lot, because that's how I start to
(54:12):
enjoining the art other thanthink as like as like type of
like work or responsibility,because art for me is a bit like
my favorite, but at the sametime everything is tangled, for
example, like getting thefinancial support from parents,
getting a lot of like not I'llsay expectation from my mentor,
(54:37):
or everything is not be done bymyself.
So art is, for me, is halfresponsibility, half my
motivation.
But that little sketchbookwhich is like a couple of
dollars helps me to get into theart how it was used to be like
just the love of the hobby ofthe art yeah, just as your
career in your whole life.
J.R. (54:56):
Exactly, I like it all right.
Last one any favorite books,movies, videos, articles or any
media that you share orrecommend the most?
Ray (55:05):
I think I love the one of.
It's also like the game thing.
But I love the concept art bookwhich there's a one I recently
purchased I couldn't mention itall your question because it's
like over 100.
Yeah, it was a big investmentfor me.
I purchased the one of the, thegame called sky.
It's a mobile game whichdoesn't have any text inside or
(55:29):
doesn't have any violencecontents inside.
It's more like you playing thegame and actually relaxing.
So it's like kind of stressrelieving.
Like game.
You see the beautiful, likewall building or landscape, the
colors and everything.
So I love that type of gamewhich I wanted to create in the
(55:49):
in the future.
Yeah, so I purchased that book.
It's really like mind-blowingbecause I can feel the process
of how people create the game.
Even if you are not an artist itlooks very relaxing.
It's like you don't have toread that much, but you can tell
what they're thinking.
It's like you visiting the artgallery.
J.R. (56:13):
Nice, so what was that called?
Again, so I can link it.
Ray (56:15):
The Art of Sky.
J.R. (56:18):
The Art of Sky.
Ray (56:19):
You said it's a game Okay cool.
It's a mobile game Cool.
J.R. (56:22):
I'll link to it.
Nice, all right, we havereached the end, so this is the
ending question.
So first is gratitude Shout outto my mom for teaching me this.
So, ray, what are you gratefulfor?
Ray (56:33):
I really feel grateful to having this opportunity through
JR here and I feel very gratefulthat I could have like actually
shared this type of storybecause of the people who I met
in my life and then people whotaught me, especially my mentor
and my parents.
J.R. (56:53):
I really appreciate that nice any final ask from the
audience or any final takeawaysyou want them to have from this
conversation.
Ray (57:02):
I'll say what do you like most in your life?
And then do you want to pursuethat dream or the goal, or the
love that you have in your heart?
I think that's the question.
J.R. (57:23):
So a good question to reflect on.
Yes, all right.
So last one where can we findyou, ray, if people want to
check out what you're doing orcontact you or whatever?
Ray (57:31):
I think there's a different way, but you can also visit my
linkedin.
You can just type ray lee andthen you'll see my picture, same
as the face I have here.
His face yes and then you canalso find me on.
J.R. (57:47):
Instagram.
Ray (57:48):
It's Ray Lee Art, and if you are a little bit interested
in the art, you can also go onmy portfolio website, which is
StarlightVisioncom, and there'sthat's the way you can find me.
J.R. (58:03):
Perfect, yeah, and I'll link all of it in the show notes
so they'll be able to clickthat and go to it easily.
All right.
Ray.
So we are done.
So thank you for this greatconversation and all of your
insights for our audience.
I'm sure they'll reallyappreciate it.
So I'll do my final sign off.
So thank you again to theaudience for tuning in.
Really appreciate you.
Hopefully you learned somethingReminder to always be kind to
others, especially yourself, andthat you can always learn
(58:26):
something from someone if youtake the time to listen.
So thanks for tuning in.
Thank you.
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