#27: Eric Pan - Balancing Life as a UCLA Undergrad, Strategy Consulting, and Servant Leadership - One Thousand Gurus Podcast

Episode Transcript
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J.R. (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another great episode
of 1000 Gurus with me, your host, jr Yonacruz.
So today's guest is Eric Pan.
Eric is a soon-to-be graduatedsenior at UCLA.
He's served on the executiveboard for both a consulting and
investment banking organizationand is an incoming associate at

(00:20):
Boston Consulting Group.
Outside of his professionallife he's a dancer on choreos
and ACA all day.
So I've known Eric since he was18, a first year at UCLA about
four years ago, and now he's agraduating fourth year and will
be off becoming a working adultin a few months.
So I was happy to interviewEric about his college
experience and witness how muchhe's grown over these last few

(00:42):
years, which made me very proud,even as my youngest guest.
He knocked this one out of thepark and gave a lot of great
insights about moving to LA fromChicago, the differences, what
strategy consulting is all aboutfinding balance, leadership and
all things, people skills.
It was such a greatconversation and especially
applicable if you are early inyour educational career, like in

(01:05):
high school or earlyundergraduate, as Eric offers a
lot of solid advice on how tonavigate that stage of life.
So, without further ado, hopeyou enjoy this episode with Eric
Pan.
All right, eric, welcome to theshow.
Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, thanks for being here.
You are the first guest that Ipicked up chauffeur style, so

(01:25):
yeah, you got the vip serviceall the way from ucla, but yeah,
so I appreciate it.
I'm glad to have you on theshow.
Like I mentioned before we wererecording, you are my youngest
guest, right behind lex, who Ithink is like 22 23, so congrats
on that achievement well, thankyou, even unlocked but yeah, I
was also gonna say I was waitingfor the cameras to start
recording, which is you do a lotof dancing obviously k-pop and

(01:46):
then aca and all this otherstuff.
The audience would have alreadyheard your bio before this, but
I feel like you're like ayounger version of me, because
when I was your age, I was alsoon three different teams and
just doing a lot of that stuff.
So, but obviously you do a lotmore.
So I will go into how I knowyou and then you can clarify
anything.

(02:12):
So when we first met is when youjoined Choreo's Lemon Era in
2021, and you were first yearand now you're blossomed to a
fourth year, so that's awesome.
We've danced together on Choreosince then, so it's been fun.
We've also had some goodconversations about like your
career path, like consulting,your different clubs, your
career path, your leadership indifferent orgs, dance and some
other stuff, and the main reasonwhy I wanted you on the show is
I feel like your insights intolike the consulting field is

(02:33):
very invaluable, and you're alsoa very thoughtful person, which
I, which is what, which is whatI appreciate, but also that's
the type of people I love havingconversations with.
You're very accomplished.

Eric (02:49):
You're not even out of college yet, almost in a few
weeks, like you said, and, yeah,I enjoy hearing your insights.
So any clarifications?
Yeah, well, thank you for thewarm introduction, jr.
I'm really glad to be on thepodcast and I think our
conversations are always atwo-way street.
I think JR has given me a lotof wisdom throughout the years.
Just starting out as a freshmanall the way now to becoming a
senior Definitely gave me a fewtenets that I live by now.

(03:10):
So, really grateful to be on theshow and to have another
thoughtful conversation with you, nice.

J.R. (03:16):
Yeah, excited, cool, all right.
So, if no other clarifications,I'll go into first topic, which
is basically Eric, your originstory moving to LA.
Because you're not from LA, I'mnot, no, yeah.
And then your path toconsulting.
So first question like wheredid you grow up?
What were your main influencesthat led to where you are today?

Eric (03:35):
Yeah, wow, so I grew up.
Actually I was born inPennsylvania, on the campus of
Penn State University, so my dadis a huge Nittany Lions fan.
Wait, seriously, on the campus.
Yeah, so literally on my birthcertificate it says University
Park.

J.R. (03:50):
Oh, okay.

Eric (03:51):
Yeah, I think a couple of years back, when I was still in
high school, we went to New York, pennsylvania, went to all
these nostalgic places for myparents just to see sort of my
origin story.
So that was definitely a fun,interesting vacation.
I feel like not many people dothat, so it's just interesting.
They took a picture at thehospital.
I was just standing in frontholding a peace sign.
Okay, so there's a hospital onthe campus.

(04:12):
I think it's either on thecampus or like very nearby.
And then, yeah, I ended upmoving to Chicago and I think in
high school is really when mypassion for business really
blossomed.
I think I'm really a peopleoriented person.
I actually went to a STEMboarding school so I had to take
the SAT to get into my highschool, which isn't super

(04:34):
traditional.
So my parents really wanted meto be, you know, an engineer, a
doctor, a lawyer I think apretty, pretty stereotypical
fields for you know an EastAsian family.
But because I felt so compelledto interact with people, I
really wanted to commit tobusiness.
So, going into undergrad Ithink a lot of undergrads are
pigeonholed into a coupledifferent fields, like either

(04:57):
that's investment, banking,consulting, accounting and I
sort of felt that pressure tomake a decision really early on
in my undergrad.
But I discovered that you knowthat that pressure is sort of
something that's self fabricated.
You can really just explore allthese three fields and
determine what's best for you.
So I joined a consulting clubmy freshman year that I ended up

(05:21):
serving as president for myjunior and senior year.
And then later on I actuallyjoined a finance club too, just
so I could get a more holisticeducation about those different
fields, and I did an investmentbanking internship and I really
enjoyed it.
But I felt like I wantedsomething a little bit more
client facing, so that's why Iended up choosing consulting.

(05:42):
But that's sort of what pushedme towards consulting and that's
what I'm going to be doing fulltime.

J.R. (05:48):
So, yeah, how did so as a high schooler?
Like, what made you gravitatetowards business?
Right, you said there's thosethree sort of main directions.
Yeah, but what about businessdrew you to it?

Eric (06:02):
Yeah, so in high school I didn't really know what
consulting was.
I didn't know what investmentbanking was.
So coming into undergrad Ithink that's what added to that
pressure of making a decision isI had to learn what those
fields entailed for my full-timelife and I had to think about,
you know, what mattered to me.

(06:22):
But going back to your questionabout high school, I did a lot
of entrepreneurship.
So we had entrepreneurshipprograms.
I developed a curriculum forsocial entrepreneurship, which
is maybe not necessarily focusedon profit but social good, and
I taught that curriculum to mypeers.
I think because of that, havingownership over something and

(06:43):
being able to take somethingfrom a seed and see it grow into
a huge venture was somethingthat was exciting for me.
And at the same time, I didn'twant to necessarily, you know,
be in a lab doing, you know,with a pipette, like doing
experiments, like I wanted to betalking to people and
understanding their perspectivesand trying to negotiate.

(07:06):
That's sort of what I thoughtmy bread and butter was.
So that's what pushed metowards business and why I
committed so so hard to tobusiness when I was an undergrad
, I see.

J.R. (07:19):
So kind of like you had a level of self-awareness that,
okay, maybe not engineer, maybenot lawyer, maybe not scientist
in some sort of field.
But you're like okay, thispeople aspect to this, creating
something, making it come tofruition that's what made you
lean towards business and then,from there, you explored more in
undergraduate.

Eric (07:36):
Exactly, and I want to caveat by saying that if you're
an engineer or you're a doctor,you're still going to have to
interact with people.
Engineer or you're a doctor,you're still gonna have to
interact with people.
But I think that's what drew metowards the, the field of
business specifically, was Ifelt like it was more sort of
people facing but, yeah, I.

J.R. (07:54):
Any field is going to involve you interacting with
people yeah okay, so now movingback to you, moving from so how
long were you in chicago for?
Or so?
You were born in pennsylvania,but yes, how long was chicago?

Eric (08:05):
yeah so I think I left out a step there.
So I was born in Pennsylvania,lived in New York for a bit, I
think.
I moved to Chicago I don't knowthe exact year, but I was
probably like nine or ten yearsold and then that's where I
currently reside in and sort ofcollege in LA feels like a
four-year long vacation.

(08:25):
But I think when I go back formy full-time role in Chicago
it'll be definitely interestingseeing how my mannerisms has
changed as I've spent more timein LA.
I'm sure a lot of my friendsfrom Chicago are gonna feel like
I changed, but I think I'm thesame.
Yeah, I I don't know notice anybig changes.

J.R. (08:44):
Yeah so that's perfect segue, because I was going to
ask so you've been in Chicagosince you're like nine or 10,
and then until undergraduate,and then you've been at LA,
obviously.
So what are some of the bigdifferences between Chicago and
LA, or specifically UCLA, Iguess?

Eric (08:58):
Yeah, maybe I can use this as an opportunity to elaborate
on why I wanted to go back toChicago after post-grad.
I think there's, you know, onemore pragmatic reason and then
two reasons that are a bit morepersonal to me.
So the first reason is thatpragmatic reason is the cost of
living is just a lot lower.

(09:18):
So compared to LA, it's a 30%reduction.
And compared to SF, it's 50%lower.
Compared to New York if you'rein Manhattan it's 100% lower.
So I felt like Chicago as acity to live in post-grad.
You get that huge metropolitanfeel but at the same time you're
not paying that huge tax tofeel that and the city is super

(09:41):
clean.
I think there's a lot ofmisconceptions about the city
and I actually did a project onit this past quarter about the
misconceptions of Chicago.
So that's the first reason.
The second reason is you know,my family's there and as an only
child I feel compelled to giveback to my parents.
They've given me so much so Iwant to be there for them and I

(10:02):
feel like my mom sort of viewsme as a spoonful of medicine
whenever I'm back home.
So I don't want her to feelanxious me being across the
country.
So that's the second reason andsort of the last reason is
there's definitely a differencein terms of the types of people
in LA and Chicago.
I think this is a massivegeneralization and there's

(10:25):
obviously exceptions to the rule, but the way I'd characterize
the West Coast versus theMidwest, versus the East Coast
is there's a distinction betweenbeing nice and kind.
I think the West Coast ingeneral feels like people are
nice but they're not necessarilykind and the distinction comes

(10:45):
from being nice is maybe holdingthe door open for someone or
saying thank you, but being kindis going out of your way to
genuinely help someone.
So I feel like that's sort ofthe generalization I feel from
the West Coast.
As opposed to the East Coast,it feels more so that people
aren't nice, right, hey?

J.R. (11:02):
I'm walking over here whatever that stereotype is.
Like that politeness Exactly.

Eric (11:06):
But they're kind right If you go to the local deli shop,
the owner is going to know yourname, going to know your order,
and they care about you.
I think the Midwest strikes abalance between the two.
I think people are nice.
If you're in the grocery storeyou hold eye contact for you
know a little bit too longinstead of people sort of
looking away.
They'll say, hey, how's itgoing, how's your morning?
You're on a hike.
They'll greet you right.
And at the same time I thinkpeople are also kind.

(11:29):
They're really willing to goout of their way to help people.
And sometimes I feel like a fishout of water in la, because I
try my hardest to be a kindperson and a nice person to
everyone and sometimes thatisn't always reciprocated, which
I don't fault people for doingthat.
It's just like a culturaldifference, yeah, but that's
like another distinction.
That sort of draws me back toChicago.

(11:51):
So those three reasons areprobably why I feel so strongly
about Chicago.
But it's bittersweet because Ifeel like the social circle I've
developed these past four years.
They're all based in LA.
So after I I leave, I wondersometimes what is my social
circle going to look like?
Am I going to have to startfresh?
I know I'm going to have tostart fresh, but how am I going

(12:13):
to stay in touch with the peoplethat have invested my time in
these past four years?
So that's something I'm alsothinking about.

J.R. (12:20):
I like it.
My next question is so whatwere some of the challenges?
If any that you face kind ofnow shifting over to being in a
UCLA LA sort of area person.

Eric (12:32):
Yeah, hardest aspect.
I feel like this is a toughquestion because I don't think
I've thought about it.
I think when you're in a newenvironment you sort of adapt
slowly over time.
I think it definitely goes backto my previous answer about
people maybe not necessarilybeing as kind, but then again

(12:54):
I'm surrounded by a lot of kindpeople that care about me, so I
think that's not really fair tosay.
Maybe more of a fun thing is,you know, the weather was
definitely a big change for me.
Chicago in the winter has super, super harsh winters, so you're
all like bundled up in a jacketand a scarf, and in LA it's
always sunny.

(13:15):
So I think the hard part aboutadjusting is when I'm back home
for a break, I have thisexpectation that you know it's
going to be 75 degrees outsideand it's going to be sunny.
And then I'm hit with thisrealization that it's cloudy and
it's snowing and it's not thebest weather, exactly.
So I think that's actually a bigreason why Californians don't

(13:37):
feel compelled to go to theMidwest or the East Coast.
I think a big part of that isthe weather, but I think for me
it's easier to tolerate that isthe weather.
But I think for me it's easierto tolerate that because the
weather, the chicago weather, ismy status quo, so I don't feel
as big of a difference.
You know, when it's 60 degreesin la and my friends or my peers
from california or, oh my god,it's really chilly.

(13:59):
I'm, you know, I'm from chicago, so I can handle it.
But I will say 60 degrees in LAfeels a lot chillier than 60
degrees in Chicago, which I feellike is a weird thing.

J.R. (14:09):
Yeah, it's a weird.
Like how does that make sense?
Yeah?

Eric (14:12):
Maybe something to do with the moisture, I'm not sure.

J.R. (14:14):
It could be, or just the now you are more used to that
sort of different environment.
Like this fish pond.
You're used to it now.
So now a little change affectsyou.
Oh, that's a.
That's a good analogy, right?
Yeah, okay, so just roundingout this section.
I guess, looking back at nowyour four-year ucla career
journey, student journey, whatwould you say would be the

(14:36):
biggest like lessons that you'velearned through this?
I know you've done a lot ofdifferent things clubs,
organizations and stuff likethat but if you were to like go
back and look at it holistically, like, here's some of the
biggest things that I learnedthat I grew from these four
years?

Eric (14:49):
this is another loaded question.
You're asking really greatquestions, so I'm glad, yeah, it
is.
It is your job.
I think the biggest thing Ilearned.
Firstly, I would say definitelythink about what your goals are
after you graduate.
I think that's important.
So you have that North Star,but at the same time, don't lose

(15:09):
sight of the fact that you onlygo through undergrad once and
you should be making memories.
I think my biggest regret duringundergrad was not spending time
with more people that I careabout.
I think analogy that I think ofis every friendship you have is
like a leaky bucket.
I think this is a pretty commonanalogy, so it's not that I

(15:31):
came up with it or anything, I'mjust sort of regurgitating it.
But every friendship you haveis a leaky bucket.
So you pour some water in itand it'll drip through the
bottom.
And if you have too manybuckets, you have one full
bucket yourself that you cangive to your friendships.
If you have so many bucketsthat you're just giving one drop
in each one, by the time youget back to that first bucket

(15:54):
it's going to be completelyempty.
I think I felt pretty.
I felt victim to that right ofhaving a really large social
circle.
So I guess from the perspectiveof my peers they felt like I
was super well-connected, butthe depth of my relationships
weren't necessarily where Iwanted them to be.
So I think spending more timewith people that I felt like I

(16:18):
could grow with, that I couldfeel comfortable just being
myself around, I think that'sone thing that's super important
in undergrad, like buildingthose really deep connections.
I think that's what Ipersonally longed for and I
didn't necessarily get, but I dohave friends.
I think I keep caveating what Isay because I don't like giving

(16:42):
huge broad generalizations, butI think that's one thing that I
want hopefully some undergradsto take away from this is that
you only go through undergradonce.
A lot of people that I talkedto that have already graduated
feel the sense of regret of, andwanting to do more in undergrad
.
So definitely have your careerfigured out.
That's why you're paying such alarge tuition to go to an

(17:04):
institution but at the same time, like have fun.
I think that's important I likethat.

J.R. (17:10):
Yeah, and again, disclaimer eric is actually very
popular so he's saying all ofthis from that lens, but no,
it's.
I think, on top of that, it'slike you're ambitious, you
obviously have a lot of stuffyou want to do, which is kind of
like the pick, your poisonslash.
Like you know, opportunity costis yeah, you do a lot of things
, but maybe the spending timewith people might be like a
sacrifice, but you know it's agive and take.

(17:31):
And then, like you said,focusing on your career as well
is important.
So I get that.
That's good insights.
Okay, so let's now pivottowards career.
So this topic is businessconsulting, strategy consulting
or management consulting I knowthere's different phrases and
maybe there's one that's moreright and then your future
career or company BostonConsulting Group.
So I guess, for the audience,could you define what strategy

(17:55):
consulting is?

Eric (17:56):
Yeah.
So I think this is.
It's a funny question because alot of people sort of ask a
question what is consulting?
And they never really get astraight answer.
So I'm going to hopefully givea definition that makes sense.
But I think the cliche analogyis that consultants are sort of
the doctors of business.
So a business might have aproblem or an issue with a

(18:21):
specific service line or aspecific product or service, and
they don't necessarily knowwhat to do.
So they'll go to a consultantand ask them hey, what are the
exact problems that we're havingand how do we solve it?
So it's as if you go to adoctor and you're sick and you
don't know what to do.

(18:42):
The doctor identifies thesymptoms, tells you what's
happening and then prescribesyou a medication.
So that's sort of what aconsultant does, except for
business.
And usually they're differentprojects, different clients, so
they extend through alldifferent industries.
So I don't want to use anybusiness jargon, but healthcare,

(19:02):
industrials, tech we haveclients all over the place and I
think what's so great aboutconsulting in terms of career
path is because you're gettingexposure to so many different
industries and you're reallysolving those clients' most
pressing problems.
It makes you a lot moreinclined to be flexible and

(19:23):
versatile in how you solveproblems moving forward, whether
you decide to go into privateequity or you decide to go into
venture capital or into thecorporate world and working in
industry.
So hopefully that gives a gooddefinition If there's any
clarifications.
I'd love to give them, I knowit's a little bit of a black box

(19:45):
what consultants do.

J.R. (19:46):
No, actually, I think that's a great metaphor and I
feel like it'll encapsulate whatthe audience would be wondering
is like what do consultants do?
So I like that.
I guess my next question wouldbe so we get what consultants do
and we kind of get why you gotinto it because your mindset and
how you found your way along tothat path.
But I guess, what do you think?

(20:07):
Just to pick your brain, whatkind of skills, characteristics,
mindsets etc.
Do you think are good to beinga good?

Eric (20:13):
consultant, yeah, so I think there's two main skills
that I can think of.
So the first thing is verystructured thinking, and that's
something that's mirrored in thetypes of interviews that are
given to consultants.
It's called a case interview,so they give you a business
problem and you have to solvethat business problem within 30

(20:36):
minutes and usually it's veryambiguous.
The problem that they give youand the onus is on you to ask
the right questions to figureout what information you need to
solve that business case.
And part of what makes a greatconsultant is they can take that
ambiguous problem and they cansplit it up into parts that are
easy to digest so that they cancome to an actionable

(20:59):
recommendation for their client.
So I think that's one reallyimportant skill for any
consultant to have.
And I think the second part ofit sort of aligns with that
structured thinking iscommunication.
So taking that structuredthinking and that analysis and
being able to synthesize it in away for people to really easily
understand, because if you takea really complicated problem

(21:22):
and you have a great solutionbut you don't know how to convey
that to your client and youdon't know how to convince them
that that's the right solution,they're not going to implement
it, and there's no reason forthem to hire you in the first
place if you're not able tocommunicate your solutions
clearly.
So I think it's those twoaspects of firstly, creating
that solution that makes senseand then, secondly, convincing

(21:43):
your client that that is theright solution.
I think those are two superimportant skills for any
consultant to have.

J.R. (21:49):
I like that a lot so it's like there's two parts to that.
You can't just be good at one orthe other.
It's the product, but also theconvincing and the people aspect
of it.
All right, so I think, oh.
Next question is likechallenges being in the field.
I know you, you're familiarwith business and consulting,
obviously from yourundergraduate experience and
you're going to go into it as afull time employed adult.
But from your currentperspective, what do you think

(22:09):
are some of the challenges beingin the field and or tips on
breaking into the industry?
And I'm asking this as a personwho, let's say, I'm a high
schooler or undergraduate- andI'm like, oh, consulting.
That sounds cool.
I heard about it from the Ericguy.

Eric (22:27):
What are the considerations, challenges and
or how would you break into that?
Yeah, so I think the first bigtip I have for anyone that's
interested in strategyconsulting is never, ever,
self-disqualify yourself.
I see a lot of really highpotential individuals who come
into undergrad and they seethese really exclusive feeling

(22:48):
consulting organizations.
I know it's a bit hypocritical,because I'm part of one and a
leading one.
So it seems like hypocritical,but I really am a strong
proponent of.
If you really work hard and putin the work and you network
with the right people, you talkto the right people that are
willing to help because actuallymore people are willing to help
than you think they are you canreally really be successful.

(23:11):
And a lot of undergrads theysee these organizations and they
think, hey, I couldn't get intoone.
That means consulting is notright for me.
I really feel like you shouldbelieve in yourself and know
that it's possible to break intothis field without having a
consulting club on your resume,if anything like.
I know an individual who gotinto Bain Company, which is

(23:34):
another really reputable firmthat worked on a farm for the
summer and did it just becauseshe wanted the experience of
just doing something unique, andthat's something that
consulting firms are alsolooking for right.
So definitely don'tself-disqualify yourself.
I think it's really when you'rerecruiting for any field that's
quote-unquote competitive, themindset that you have going into

(23:57):
it is super important.
So being able to push past thatand push yourself to the limits
and realize that you're goodenough, I think is important.

J.R. (24:07):
Yeah, nice, I like it, okay.
One of the last parts of thissubject is so I know the only
thing I know about consultingstrategy, consulting is our
conversations, yeah.
And then, like I mentionedbefore, is I watched the John
Oliver's his whole breakdown onlast week tonight on McKinsey,
yes, and so it's pretty scathing, for I'll link to it as well
and I sent it to eric.

(24:27):
I'm like, oh, how would youthink about this?
Because this is obviously justmy own perspective, like
watching some media, and so it'stldr.
It's like pretty scathing onthe entire industry, but
obviously focus on mckinsey andso obviously he raises
interesting points and so Iguess not to put you on the spot
for an industry you're notreally in yet you know what I
mean.
Yeah, yeah, and you're notrepresenting them and obviously,

(24:48):
like that john oliver isbasically saying, yeah, business
consultants are like a bunch ofcrap, essentially right,
there's obviously nuance to itand there's a lot of different
things and I'm not saying Iagree with that, I'm just like
it's uh interesting perspective,so I guess just throw it over
to you.
Do you have any thoughts on thatsort of conception that some
people might have on consulting?

Eric (25:07):
Yeah, I think I want to start off by saying it's
important if you're in business,to be ethical.
I think the reason why JohnOliver really harped on McKinsey
in particular is they had theseethical lapses that were a
result of a lack of oversight,right?
So I think in any sort of fieldthere are going to be instances
where you have those ethicallapses and it's great that

(25:29):
there's people in media that areholding these companies and
these firms accountable.
At the same time, on the otherside of the coin, I think
consultants are also doing likea lot of really positive work
that maybe is not so glamorous,not so headline catching, so it
doesn't get as much attention,Right.
So, for example, my firm, BCG.
We do a lot of social impactwork and I think that's what

(25:53):
really drew me to the firm inthe first place.
One person I was on a call withwho went to BCG after their MBA
was a Teach for America teacherand she really cared a lot
about nonprofits and she feltlike she could do a lot in that
field through BCG.
And some of these nonprofits,right, they're not necessarily

(26:16):
able to afford like a consultingproject.
So we'll do pro bono projectsfor those types of clients, and
that's not necessarily somethingthat you'll see in a John
Oliver skit.
So there's definitely a lot ofother work that's happening
that's not sort of thesehighlighted quote unquote like
monstrous things, but at thesame time, I want to emphasize

(26:36):
that it's important, wheneveryou're conducting business, to
be making sure that you'recognizant of how your work
affects other people.
So, that's something that I wantto take into sort of my
experience in consulting ishaving that in the back of my
mind.
I don't want to be abrainwashed consultant that
thinks the field is completelyperfect.

(26:56):
Every field is going to havethese like ethical lapses, but
it's important to learn fromthese experiences so it doesn't
happen in the future yeah, Ilike that a lot and just
underscore it again.

J.R. (27:07):
I think every field has like those ethical lapses, like
you said, and I think you as anindividual should be cognizant
of what sort of companies you'rejoining organizations and what
you're doing to it, becauseobviously we can't blame like
the entire structure ofsomething necessarily, because
it's the individuals who makethat up and the leadership and
everything and what you're beingdriven by.

(27:27):
So of course, it's the samething with unethical doctors,
lawyers, engineers, everythingRight.
So yeah, thank you for sharingthat because I totally agree.
I think what you bring intoyour field and your career
choice can be good or evil.
Like sometimes the weapon islike agnostic to who is doing it
, you know.
So yeah, Thank you likesometimes the weapon is like
agnostic to who's doing it, youknow.
So yeah, thank you.

(27:47):
Yeah, of course, all right.
So, or sorry, any other thingon topic of consulting or bcg or
anything on that throw outthere yeah, I mean, if you're
interested, definitely researchthe field.

Eric (27:56):
And I will say, preparing for case interviews is very
intense.
You're gonna have to practice alot.
I think most people need to domaybe 20 or 30 cases to feel
comfortable with the wholeinterview process.
But don't let it scare you.
I think a lot of people sort ofare at the bottom of the
mountain and they look up andthey're sort of doubting whether

(28:18):
they can make it to that peak.
But you just need to take thatfirst step and slowly climb and
over time you'll realize howdoable it actually is.
So it always goes back tomindset.
I think that's one thing that Itell my peers that are
recruiting is you need to havethe right mindset going into
recruiting, because it's amarathon, not a sprint.
For me, my internshiprecruiting process probably took

(28:41):
six to seven months, I think.
For full-time recruiting maybea little bit less than that,
like three months, but stillit's a lot of time and you're
going to have to dedicate a lotof mental energy to it.
But just keep going at it.
Yeah, nice.

J.R. (28:57):
Cool, good advice, all right.
So next topic so it's kind oflike a mash of different things
so building rapport, findingprofessional success and balance
.
So it's kind of like a mash ofdifferent things, so building
rapport, finding professionalsuccess and balance.
So my first question is howdoes one achieve quote unquote
professional success, and howwould you define that?

Eric (29:13):
I'm going to give the typical consultant answer of it
depends, right?
I think everyone optimizes fordifferent things in their
professional career.
Some might I mean, if I'm beinghonest, some might just
optimize for money, and there'snothing wrong with that.
Some might optimize forfulfillment, and I think that's
one thing that I care a lotabout is, you know, consulting

(29:37):
for a lot of people aren't,isn't the end all be all.
They sort of use it as alaunching pad to do something
else.
For me, I don't know ifconsulting is sort of the
end-all be-all.
They sort of use it as alaunching pad to do something
else.
For me.
I don't know if consulting issort of the end-all be-all for
me, because I haven't reallyentered the field yet, 100% yet.
But I want to do somethingsocial impact related at least
sometime in my life, and I thinkconsulting sets me up really

(30:00):
well for that.
So I think professional successyou're gonna have to define it
yourself.
For me it's fulfillment.
But you really have to thinkabout what do you want to get
out of your career and do thatintrospection, because, frankly,
other people can't really dothat for you, right?

J.R. (30:17):
So cool, yeah, Answer my question All right.
So the next thing on that isokay.
So rapport so how does onebuild rapport and why is it
important and how do youapproach it?
You mentioned this is one ofthe topics.

Eric (30:29):
Yeah, building rapport.
I think it's so important tobuild rapport with your friends,
your peers, your co workersbecause that establishes trust
and I think that goes a verylong way in terms of your
success.
You know, success isn't justthinking about yourself, it's
also thinking about how can youcontribute to other people and,

(30:54):
I think, building rapportfirstly.
I think one tenet that JR hasreally taught me is integrity
and doing what you say you will.
I think that goes a very longway, especially in the workplace
.
If your manager tells you, hey,I want this slide deck done by
tomorrow and you say, yes, Ihave capacity, I'll get it done,
and you don't get it done, thenthe next time they're going to

(31:16):
doubt your ability and they'regoing to have to babysit you and
that's not necessarily a goodlook for you.
But if you say that you'regoing to get it done, try your
best to get it done, and if youcan't communicate, that, you
can't right.
So I think thoseprofessionalism skills are
really closely tied to buildingthat trust and building rapport

(31:38):
in the office.
I think another way to buildrapport in the office is just
being a nice, kind person.
I think Nice and kind, nice andkind, like a true Chicagoan.

J.R. (31:47):
Yeah, like.

Eric (31:48):
Chicagoan people, we're nice and kind.
Yeah, exactly, I think itdefinitely goes a long way
Saying hi to people in theoffice, making them feel welcome
, making you know people feellike they're cared for.
I especially feel like in theoffice people tend to keep a
distance from other people andthat's totally okay.
But I like to be a warmpersonality that says hi, that

(32:12):
grabs people's coffees andwhatnot, because I think it's
important if you're spending,especially in consulting, like
60 to 80 hours a week withpeople, you want to enjoy your
time with them, and I alwaysview a new person as an
opportunity to gain newperspective and gain a new
friend.
So that's something that I carea lot about and has helped me

(32:34):
in my professional careerbuilding that rapport, because I
naturally want to be a kindperson.
I think it's a good thing to doin the office.
Yes, I like it All right.
So kind of changing gears akind person.
I think it's a good thing to doin the office.
Yeah, I like it.

J.R. (32:45):
All right, so kind of changing gears a little bit.
So, with your last four yearsbeing super busy, how do you
manage to find balance withfriends and hobbies and I guess
on top of that, if you have anyinteresting stories, challenges
or advice you want to share onthis idea of balance?
Being a guy who does a lot ofdifferent clubs, organizations,
you also dance to differentteams and other stuff so how do

(33:08):
you approach that?

Eric (33:09):
Yeah, well, first I will say there have been definitely
moments in undergrad where I hadno balance and I think to my
peers, some people look at allthe organizations I do and they
assume I got everything figuredout.
But there have been times whereI'm like I simply I'm
overwhelmed, I'm burnt out, andI think it's important to

(33:32):
recognize when you're at thatpoint and think about what do
you want to prioritize at thismoment and taking a step back
when you need to.
I think maybe one example I'llgive is when I was the president
of my consulting club.
There were a lot of times whereI should have delegated tasks
to others and maybe they werebusy so they said they couldn't

(33:54):
pick things up.
My natural reaction is hey,don't worry about it, I'll pick
it up, don't stress.
But at a certain point that'sunsustainable and I think it's
doing a disservice to the peoplethat I work with, because then
they don't gain that autonomyand that initiative to do those
things themselves, they don'tbuild those skills.

(34:16):
So not only am I overwhelmingmyself, but I'm depriving them
of the opportunity to do theirjob right.
So I think that's one thingthat I definitely learned when
leading an organization isknowing when to delegate tasks
and knowing that you're notburdening them.
If anything, you're justhelping them gain proficiency in
what they should be doing.

(34:37):
So I know that was a bit of along-winded answer, but I think
one.
I know that was a bit of along-winded answer, but I think
one delegating and then twoknowing when to take a step back
.

J.R. (34:48):
Okay, I guess to dig a little deeper.
That answered the question, butto dig a little deeper now.
So how do you do all thesedifferent things?
So I know you said delegatingand taking a step back, but I
think there also will be peopleout there who are just as
ambitious as you.
Like want to join a comp team,k-pop team, different, two
different clubs also berecruiting and like trying to
figure out your career, anythingelse beyond just those two.

(35:11):
Delegating, taking a step backdo you think helps with helping
you find balance?

Eric (35:15):
Yeah Well, I treat my calendar as the Bible, so I feel
like every single thing that Ihave to do I put on my calendar,
and that's super important,especially if you're an
undergrad.
Make sure that you have acalendar, that you're sending
calendar invites to people, thatyou're keeping track of your
different tasks, because I thinkthe biggest difficulty with

(35:39):
balancing different things islike they'll inevitably fall
through the cracks.
I know for choreos, we have alot of forms that we have to
fill out, and I am not the bestat filling out those forms
unfortunately, All the choruspeople listening.

J.R. (35:54):
yep, that's true.

Eric (35:55):
Yeah, so I mean, I'm not perfect, so I definitely have
those lapses too.
But having the calendar andkeeping track of the different
events you have and activelythinking throughout the day okay
, what's next on my calendar?
What do I have to do tomorrow?
What do I have to do at the endof today to set me up for
success the rest of the week, Ithink helps you get in a rhythm

(36:18):
that makes it not asoverwhelming to be doing so many
activities.
But yeah, it is a struggle.
I'm not saying it's easy andthat I'm an expert in this.
It's just you have to do trialand error and figure out what
works, and people have differentcapacities for doing different
things and they need to blow offsteam in different ways.

(36:39):
So it's not like aone-size-fits-all solution, but
being structured and having acalendar is a great way to
ensure that you don't overoverwhelm yourself.

J.R. (36:50):
I like it, so now I'm curious about.
So leadership is one of thethings I love talking about and,
as someone who's been a leaderof organizations, started your
own things and now going into apeople focused career field
aside from the delegation andaside from trying to grow the
leaders and having a calendar,do you think there are I'd like
to get your thoughts on.

(37:10):
What do you think are someother leadership insights or
life lessons or things thatyou've learned along the way of
being an effective leader?

Eric (37:17):
Yeah, I think one philosophy that I really
resonate with and something thatI actually learned from the
high school leadership programthat I helped lead it was
literally called LEAD, whic h isfunny.

J.R. (37:30):
Yeah, it's LEAD.

Eric (37:37):
Yeah, it's servant leadership, and they have
constituents that they need tokeep track of and have
responsibility for.
They tend to put themselves upon a pedestal or feel like they
have this sense of power thatyou know when you delegate, it's
like you do your task.
If you don't do your task, Iwill reprimand you.

(37:57):
And servant leadership isdifferent in that you view your
constituents as equals and youdo everything in your power to
remove obstacles that preventthem from being successful, and
I think that's a mindset that Itry to take into all my
organizations.
So, for example, even before Istepped up as president for my

(38:22):
consulting club, we had aretreat, and it was a two-day
retreat.
A lot of the upperclassmen leftafter the first day just
because they had midterms.
It was sort of bad timing itwas just smack dab in the middle
of midterm season, so a lot ofthe upperclassmen left after
that first day.
And then we had these newinterns that just joined the

(38:44):
organization with basicallylittle to no upperclassmen left
for that second day, and a lotof them were bummed out right.
This is an opportunity for youto really get to know the club,
and if all the upperclassmen aremissing, they were okay, but we
may as well just go home.
So I really thought to myself,how do I make this memorable for
those new interns?
And I lied to them.

(39:06):
I locked myself in a roomupstairs.
I was like, oh my God, I havethis essay I have to do.
I'm going to lock myself in myroom and not talk to you guys.
I'm so sorry.
And I told them like, hey, likeyou guys should go to the
grocery store, get some food andwe can cook dinner together and
have a good time.
But in that room I was scheminga murder mystery for them to do

(39:27):
.
That they had no idea about.
So once they came back and theycooked dinner and I finally
came out of my room, I'm like,oh my God, I finally finished my
essay.
Wow, this pasta is so good.
Good job, guys.
I got my dad to give me a fakecall.
So I picked up the call.
I showed everyone the caller IDso like, oh, like his dad's

(39:47):
calling him.
I was like, hey, guys, I'mgoing to take a walk outside and
I'm just going to talk to mydad.
So for context, earlier in theday we saw a really shady white
van driving around our B,because we're in the middle of
the woods.
This is in Lake Arrow arrowhead, if you were familiar with it
and because of that I called atthe time the president, who was

(40:10):
still inside the house, who wasin on it.
I was like, hey, austin, I'm inthe middle of the woods and
there's like this shady vanthat's behind me and I tried to
put on my acting, because I usedto act in middle school, I used
to be a theater kid that I waslike genuinely scared.
And then I was like, oh my god,he's coming closer.
And then I hung up really fastand he showed me a video of all

(40:32):
the interns, genuinely veryconcerned for me.
So they're like putting ontheir shoes.
Oh, my god, we gotta go findhim.
Yeah, but little did they know.
I was just hiding outside thehouse and there was a speaker
inside the house that I couldconnect to remotely and I had
these robotic voice prompts thatI would play over the speaker

(40:52):
and basically this imaginary guykidnapped me and they needed to
solve a series of riddles tofind me.
So they had to run around thehouse and I'm very proud of the
murder mystery because I put alot of thought into it, like,
for example, there's one pointwhere they had to find a
chessboard downstairs for thenext clue.

(41:15):
So they already were upstairsand knew that nobody was up
there.
But once they went downstairsto check that clue, I actually
snuck in the house and wentupstairs to hide on the balcony.
So it's almost at the end.
When they finally found where Iwas, it's almost as if I
appeared from nowhere.
So I put a lot of thought intothat and I think it was a really

(41:35):
core memory for a lot of ourinterns and is why they're so
dedicated to the new internsthat we take this year, because
they felt like I put in thateffort to care for them.
So they're going to do the samefor their underclassmen and
it's just a good way toperpetuate that culture of
giving back super long story.

(42:02):
But I feel like it's a goodexample of being a servant
leader and going out of your wayto help people and make people
feel cared for so that they canbe the best version of
themselves.
And that's just the key to anyhigh performing organization is
you want people to not havethose obstacles holding them
back from being successful.
Nice, I like it.

J.R. (42:17):
Cool, yeah, that was great .
I don't want to add anything tothat.
I was like that was a greatstory too.
Okay, that is it for the maintopics.
Do you want to be ready forrapid fire?
This is the fun part.

Eric (42:27):
Ready for rapid fire?

J.R. (42:28):
Yes, yeah, I think so Cool , yeah, all right, you've seen
the questions, it'll be fine,all right.
First question billboardquestion.

Eric (42:44):
If you could put up a sign for millions of people to see
what would it say?
Okay, I'll give it a jokeanswer and then a real answer.
So we're talking about this inthe car.
Um, I think my funny billboardwould say why are you looking at
this?
Billboard.
You should be paying attentionto the road.
Actually, now that I say it outloud it's actually not that
funny.
But my real answer I actuallydon't know.
I didn't really think about areal I just stopped at the.

J.R. (42:59):
Oh my god, what are you doing?
Not looking at the road?
Watch out, there's a car.

Eric (43:02):
Yeah, I think I'd really want to have one of those.
Okay, this is anothernon-serious answer, but it was
like those got injured, likelawyer ads with my face on it,
yeah, and like they're reallyeasy to remember numbers like
five, five, five, five, five,five, five.
Yeah, yeah, something like that.

J.R. (43:20):
Yeah, just for that's, just like a fun question, yeah,
it's funny because, as of thismonday, I have a personal injury
attorney who is their episodeis going live this monday oh,
that's yeah so he has billboards.

Eric (43:31):
That literally has a space that has numbers, it's easy.

J.R. (43:34):
He's ollie rozavi who hurt you, you guys.
By the time you hear thisepisode, you would have probably
have already heard of hisepisode oh, I see, yeah.

Eric (43:41):
So yeah, that's, we have one of those guys, yeah, oh cool
.

J.R. (43:44):
So because I asked him the billboard question, I'm like
well, not that you don't alreadyhave billboards, but what would
you put so funny?
Okay, next question what is oneof the hardest challenges you
faced in your life and what didyou learn from?

Eric (43:55):
it hardest challenges I faced in your life and what did
you learn from it?
Hardest challenges I faced inmy life?
I think one was I was reallyheavily involved in student
government in high school and Ilost an election and at the time
it seemed like the end of theworld because I equated my
identity to student council,which is, I feel like, not a
healthy thing to do.
But after that I rediscoveredmy intrinsic motivation for why

(44:20):
I wanted to do student councilin the first place and I think
that helped me a lot in terms ofunderstanding why I was doing
what I was doing and having theright reasons to do it, and I
ended up doing well in the nextelection because of it.

J.R. (44:34):
Nice Self-inflicted wound.
Do you have a story aboutsomething that's gone wrong in
your life that you can't blameanyone else because you did it
to yourself?

Eric (44:43):
Yeah, wow, very introspective question.
I think it goes back to thedoing too many things.
I think I'd like to say doingall these amazing things, while
you know I must be some likesuperhero, but I'm really not
Like.
I think there's so many timeswhere I've been super burnt out

(45:07):
and it's not healthy at all.
So I think that's a commontheme of finding the right
balance and why I wanted to talkabout it so much is it's
important to to realize whenyou're doing too much.
I think there's something calledduck syndrome.
I don't know if you've heard ofit, but let's say, ucla is a

(45:29):
pond.
Oh, I see.
Yeah, ucla is a pond and you'rea duck and you see a bunch of
these other ducks in the pondand on the surface it looks like
they're gliding through thewater and everything's a-okay,
but every single duck under thewater, their feet are like,
they're like going like this,exactly right, and I think

(45:49):
that's a really common thing tosee is you'll look around and
see your peers.
They're so successful.
It doesn't look like they'restruggling at all so easy.
But exactly Behind closed doorsthey might be fighting for their
life.
I feel like I definitelyresemble that.
Maybe from the outsideperspective it looks like I have
everything figured out, butthere's been definitely times
where I haven't.
And that's totally okay, andit's important to be vulnerable

(46:11):
so that people know that it'sokay to feel overwhelmed, it's
totally normal, yeah.

J.R. (46:21):
If you could redo one thing, what would you do
differently?
Not that you don't appreciateeverything that's happened, but
as a thought experiment redosomething.

Eric (46:27):
I think the worst feeling ever is regret.
So I'm trying to comb throughsort of all the regrets that
I've had, but I think this is alittle meta, but I think I
regret having too many regrets,I think, especially since I'm
graduating soon, I'm lookingback and reflecting on my
college experience and I mightfeel like, hey, I should have

(46:50):
done this, I should have donethat, but that in and of itself
takes away from my collegeexperience.
So, yeah, it's a never saynever situation, just being
happy with what I did and thechoices that I made, and moving
forward and not looking back, Ithink is important.

J.R. (47:10):
Yeah I like that answer.
It's basically what I regretmost is regretting too much yeah
, so maybe I should stop doinghere.
Yeah, yeah some mr miyagi stuffright there.
Okay, um similar question, butif you could give your younger
self advice, what would it benow, any age or time period?

Eric (47:27):
younger self.
Hmm, believe it or not, when Iwas in elementary school I was
extremely introverted, so I wassort of like the kid that would
sit at lunch by themselves, andat the time I like felt no pity
for myself.
I was a kid, I didn't reallyunderstand it.
But I think, looking back at itnow as someone that cares a lot

(47:51):
about interacting with people,I think I sort of feel sad for
my younger self.
But I think over time Irealized that having those
perspectives from other peopleand talking about sort of what
makes them tick, what motivatesthem, has helped motivate me as

(48:11):
well.
And it's okay, you know, butyou should step out of your
shell, push yourself out of yourcomfort zone and talk to more
people, because I think that'swhat makes me tick is other
people and spending time withthem.

J.R. (48:28):
So yeah, in the last few years what new belief, behavior
or habit has improved?

Eric (48:34):
your life Organization structure.
I think that really goes a longway and goes back to the
calendar thing that I saidearlier is having that structure
makes sure that everything runssmoothly.

J.R. (48:48):
So yeah, I think structure yeah, especially if you have a
lot going on.
Exactly, it necessitates beingmore organized, right?
Who would you call successfuland how do you define success?

Eric (49:05):
Who would I call successful?
Someone that's happy Becauseyou could have all the money in
the world, but if you don't likethe trajectory of your life,
you don't like the people thatyou surround yourself with.

J.R. (49:12):
I would not say that you're successful so.

Eric (49:15):
I think successful I was going to say successfulness, but
that's not right.
I think success is like howhappy you are, how fulfilled you
are, but I will say there's adistinction between being happy
and fulfilled, so maybe more sotowards fulfillment.
I think, those are the peoplethat are most successful.
You could be living in a quainttown by yourself in the middle

(49:38):
of nowhere, no reception, but ifyou're fulfilled with your life
, I think you're a verysuccessful person.
I like it.

J.R. (49:45):
Yeah, if you knew you couldn't fail, what would you be
doing?
Or what would you try If I knew?

Eric (49:50):
I couldn't fail?
That's an interesting question,because I think I tend to be
pretty risk averse.
So if I couldn't fail, I'd be aK-pop idol.
Oh yeah, yeah, I'm halfwaythere because of choreos, you
know right, no comment.

J.R. (50:12):
What would your role be in a K-pop idol group?
Well, I mean.

Eric (50:19):
I think you know the answer I'm gonna say, but I'm
not gonna say that I think I'dbe main dancer.
I think the answer jr wouldwant me to say is visual, but
that's the answer that all ofchoreos is thinking in their
head.

J.R. (50:32):
He's gonna say visual, isn't he?

Eric (50:34):
but yeah, I think but yeah , I think dancer because K-pop
is the reason why I starteddancing and it's such a near and
dear thing to my heart.
Like dancing because I grew updoing a lot of different things,
like I played clarinet for abit, viola, I was in choir, I

(50:54):
did figure skating for like amonth.
I did competitive swimming, Idid water polo oh, wow, so nice.
I felt like all the differentactivities I did wasn't
necessarily something that I waspassionate about, but with

(51:14):
dance specifically, if I don'tdance for a while, I get this
itch Like I have to do it and Ifeel like now that I have dance
in my life and it's something Icare a lot about and gets me
into that flow state, yeah, Ithink I'd want to be a main
dancer Nice, yeah.

J.R. (51:34):
I like it.
What is one of the best or mostworthwhile investments you've
ever made in either time money,energy, etc.

Eric (51:41):
Okay, I'm going to start off with a very practical advice
.
If you are 18, please invest inyour Roth IRA.
Get a head start on yourretirement fund Compound
interest does wonders.
We were talking about this inthe car, too and make sure you
put your money in index funds,because it hedges your risk.

(52:03):
So, yes, that's the first thing.
The second thing, I thinkinvest time in your parents and
people that you feel like youcan be totally normal around, be
totally yourself.

J.R. (52:15):
Exactly, except here's you are.

Eric (52:16):
Exactly.
I think my litmus test for howcomfortable I feel with someone
is if we're sitting in a car andwe're not saying anything and I
don't feel any need to breakthe silence.
Like I know I'm comfortablewith you, right?
So I think that's one thingthat people should invest time
with is your parents, becausethey provide a lot of time and

(52:39):
effort into you and making surethat you're raised well, and
your friends, that you feel likeyou can be totally normal
around.

J.R. (52:48):
Yes, I like it, favorite recent purchase in the 50 to 100
range that has impacted yourlife the most in the last, let's
say, six months so this I knowthe question said 50 to 100, but
you know, let's push that up50% to like 150.

Eric (53:05):
I bought a Kindle and growing up I was not a big
reader, just because I rememberhaving to do those reading logs
where I had to write what book Ihad to like, what book I was
reading, how long I read it for.
And we had to do 30 minutesevery day and some of those

(53:26):
entries may have been fabricated.
But now I realize the benefitsof reading a book is that a lot
of people spend timesynthesizing and compiling
insights and they put in a lotof effort to literally give you
this one object that compileslike literally everything that

(53:51):
they've learned and you can sortof create and meld your own
version of your own ideologies,outlooks on life.
I think it helps a lot.
So the kindle is great becauseit's so light, you can really
take it anywhere I can read it.
At night you can't really reada book because there's no like
backlight.

J.R. (54:08):
So I think the kindle is a good, good, good thing to
invest in yeah, and I guess justthe higher principles, like
reading I mean preaching to thechoir, like I have a whole book
summaries website for the exactsame reason as, like I, aside
from assigned school reading,like I love reading just to
learn and then also synthesizefor myself and then share with

(54:29):
other people, because that helpsme like a three-step process of
learning is like consuming,synthesizing and then sharing.
Yeah, helps me learn it moredeeply.
So, yeah, highly recommend it.
Audience read more.
Okay.
Last question for the rapidfire Favorite books, movies,
videos, articles or any mediathat you share or recommend the
most.

Eric (54:48):
Favorite books.
I'll start with books.
We just talked about books, soI'm actually reading Atomic
Habits right now.
It's a good book, and I'msurprised I didn't read it
earlier, because it's such apopular book, and I think it's.
I think I sort of understoodhow habits reform, but it really
gives a deep dive into,psychologically, how you build

(55:08):
and reinforce habits, not justpositive ones, but negative ones
as well.
So definitely a good read.
I think another book that ifyou haven't heard of before,
that's good is how to WinFriends and Influence People.
I think another book that ifyou haven't heard of before,
that's good is how to WinFriends and Influence People.
I think one thing I will say,though, is when you read that, I
think the perspective isinteresting, because it sort of

(55:29):
picks up on what successfulpeople do well.
But the analogy I'll give is ifyou had no idea, jr, how to ride
a bike and I gave you a book onhow to ride a bike, by the time
you finish reading that book, Ihighly doubt you'd be able to
ride a bike.
Well, after that book.
You sort of have to practice.
You don't really think whenyou're riding a bike.

(55:50):
Okay, my foot's got to go 45degrees this way, and I got to
keep pedaling and I got to turnthe handlebars.
You just do it instinctively,and, and I got to turn the
handlebars.
You just do it instinctivelyand I think taking that same
mindset to how to win friendsand influence people is you have
to practice those skills.
And at first it might seem a bitunintuitive and disingenuine,
but you have to build it intohow you naturally interact with

(56:13):
people.
So a lot of people sort of readthe book and they have these
tips and they try it out andthey're like wait, this isn't
who I am.
And then they stop.
But for those successful people, they've ingrained those
behaviors into their daily lifeand that's how they end up
becoming successful.
So I think it's importantreading that book through that

(56:34):
lens is you're not thinking okay, when I talk to people, people
I should say their name more.
It's that naturally when youtalk and just say their name
once or twice and over timeit'll just be natural, jr.

J.R. (56:48):
Yes, eric I like it yeah, yeah, that's also another really
good, but so one of the firstpersonal development books I
read was how to win friends withthese people.
I just saw it on a shelf.
It was red.
I was like oh this looksinteresting yeah but, then that
started me on the whole journey.
But, like to your point, it'slike the live practice in the
field, in the trenches, and it'slike taking with a grain of
salt.
But there's solid principles inthere.

Eric (57:09):
But once you apply it.

J.R. (57:10):
You'll figure out how to work in your own life, but
there's solid ideas in there ofhow to approach this whole
people skills thing.
Cool, anything else.

Eric (57:20):
Any recs?
Any other recs?
I'm a big fan of ChristopherNolan movies so it's actually on
my resume in my interestsection.
I highly recommend Tenet.
I think it has such a bad rapbecause it's confusing, but I
remember looking throughanalysis videos after and it

(57:40):
absolutely blew my mind.
It's a masterpiece, so Irecommend it.
The other good christophernolan movie is like interstellar
, but I feel like everyone saysthat, so I'm gonna stick with
tenant.

J.R. (57:51):
I think I had one.
Guess you recommendedinterstellar, but yeah, good
movies cool all right, that isit for rapid fire.
We'll go into ending questions.
So, eric, gratitude, I liked itwith gratitude, shout out to my
mom, since I didn't mention itlast time.
Solomon was like hey, youdidn't say your mom, I was like
all right, well, okay, she'llget the next one.
What do you get before, eric?
What am I grateful for?

Eric (58:11):
jr.
I'm grateful for you.
Thanks, man.
Yeah, I think genuinely he'sgiving me a lot of great advice
that I've taken with methroughout college.
So definitely grateful for youand want to thank you for having
me on your podcast as youryoungest guest.
Hopefully that that title staysfor a long time.
I feel like it might, but we'llsee what else am I grateful?

J.R. (58:32):
for.

Eric (58:33):
I'm grateful for my mom and my dad.
Obviously, that's a big reasonfor why I want to go back to
Chicago.
I'm grateful for Solomon forbeing here and helping out with
the podcast.

J.R. (58:42):
And.

Eric (58:43):
I'm grateful for, you know , my friends, I'm grateful for
all the opportunities that I'vehad.
I think, yes, you know I'veworked really hard for all these
accomplishments and things I'veadded to my pedigree, but a big
part of it is luck right.
So I'm grateful that I've beenlucky to have thoseigree, but a
big part of it is luck right.
So I'm grateful that I've beenlucky to have those
opportunities.
There's a lot that I'm gratefulfor, but I think I'll end it

(59:05):
there because I know we got someother questions to go to.

J.R. (59:09):
So, yeah, we're wrapping it up Cool.
Second last thing any final askfrom the audience or any final
takeaways you'd like them tohave from this conversation?

Eric (59:20):
you'd like them to have from this conversation.
Yeah, final takeaways.
Man, I don't want to sound toopreachy because I feel like
that's a it's a common thing forthe ending.
But okay, number one, invest inyour author please cg nova I
think that's a big thing,especially for young people,
like setting yourself up forfinancial success, I think is
really important, something thatI hope people do.

(59:42):
But other than that, definitelystrike a balance.
I think there's more to lifethan just professional success.
So spend time with people thatyou care about, make memories,
find what makes you feelfulfilled in life and, yeah,

(01:00:03):
just have a good time.
Right, life isn't just aboutbeing successful and having a
good job and driving aLamborghini.
It's about the people that yousurround yourself with.
I think my ideal life is, youknow me, with my wife and my
kids and maybe a german shepherd, you know, walking in the

(01:00:23):
neighborhood, seeing the sunset,hearing the birds chirping.
That's like my ideal lifestyleliving in the moment.
Exactly.

J.R. (01:00:31):
Care about, yeah, exactly so, in the great words of
pitbull, every day above groundis a great day.
Remember that.

Eric (01:00:37):
Yeah.

J.R. (01:00:38):
Bars, bars.

Eric (01:00:40):
Cool cool.

J.R. (01:00:41):
And on the whole IRA thing , if I am looking for a, if
someone is an expert in personalfinance, I would love to have
you on the show.

Eric (01:00:49):
I do have a close friend of mine who wasn't able to make
it who does personal financestuff, but just a call to action
.

J.R. (01:00:54):
If you know anything about finance, I'd love to have you
on the show.
If you know anything aboutfinance, I'd love to have you on
the show.
All right, last question whencan we find you, eric?
If people are curious whatyou're up to or want to connect
and reach out, where can theyfind you?

Eric (01:01:03):
Yeah, so eric underscore pan.
That's my Instagram.
I think that's more of likeunserious stuff.
I'll probably post stuff aboutmy business orgs and choreos and
my comp dance team essay allday, but business orgs and
choreos and my comp dance teamACA all day.
But in terms of professionalstuff I think definitely reach
out to me on LinkedIn.
I think you can just search upEric Pan, ucla.

J.R. (01:01:27):
I'll probably have his face, most likely, yes.

Eric (01:01:30):
My beautiful face, your visuals.

J.R. (01:01:32):
Okay, awesome.

Eric (01:01:34):
Yeah.

J.R. (01:01:35):
Cool.
All right, so that's it forquestions.
I'll wrap it up, but just final.
Thank you, Eric, for being here.
I really appreciate it.
And just to put a ball on that,you know seeing you from first
year, Eric, until now, it hasbeen a pleasure and a joy to see
you kind of blossom into theperson you are today.

Eric (01:01:49):
Thank you.

J.R. (01:01:49):
I will reiterate that you are the same person, in a good
way, Like you haven't changedmuch.
Obviously, you're much wiser,and Obviously you're much wiser
and you've had a lot moreexperience.
But I am genuinely excited foryour future.
I feel like you're going to dogreat things and looking forward
to following it.

Eric (01:02:02):
Wow, I appreciate it and thank you so much for having me
on the podcast and hoping thateven after I go back to Chicago
we stay in touch.
Yes, 100%.

J.R. (01:02:10):
Cool, all right, my final sign off for the audience.
Thank you guys for being hereand listening and tuning in.
Friendly reminder to always bekind to other people, especially
yourself, kind and nice, andyou can always learn something
from someone if you take thetime to listen.

Eric (01:02:25):
So thanks for being here, awesome, thank you.

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#27: Eric Pan - Balancing Life as a UCLA Undergrad, Strategy Consulting, and Servant Leadership

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#27: Eric Pan - Balancing Life as a UCLA Undergrad, Strategy Consulting, and Servant Leadership