April 14, 2025 • 49 mins
Ray Lee returns to discuss his journey as a concept artist transitioning from Los Angeles back to South Korea, sharing insights on international work opportunities and maintaining artistic integrity in the changing gaming industry.
• Working as an international concept artist
• The differences between US, European and Asian job markets
• Having multiple career plans (A, B, C) helps artists navigate industry instability and layoffs
• AI tools are being integrated into major gaming studios
• Artists can partially protect work from AI scraping through privacy settings and emerging technologies like "Glaze"
• Building a strong portfolio requires following industry trends while maintaining a personal artistic identity
• Having a mentor provides targeted feedback that accelerates growth beyond what online courses can offer
• Digital nomadism and online platforms are creating new opportunities for artists to work globally
Guest bio:
Ray Lee is a Concept Artist/ Environment Concept Artist/ Digital Art Teacher in Los Angeles, California. He creates 2D Concept Art, including Environment, Props, Illustration, Logo, and Character design to professional standards, showing his design's problem-solving quality in the Game and Entertainment Industry. He has a passion for creating gaming universes that captivate players’ imaginations.
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rayleeart/
- Website: https://www.starlight-vision.com/
- IG: @rayleeart - https://www.instagram.com/rayleeart
Links/resources:
- OTG episode #22: Ray Lee - How AI Affects Art, Studying Internationally, and the Complexities of Concept Art | https://www.buzzsprout.com/2389613/episodes/16433824
One Thousand Gurus Podcast:
Everyone has a compelling story to tell with insights we can all be inspired by. J.R. Yonocruz is a self-improvement blogger, relationship coach, and serial hobbyist with a passion for learning. He interviews unique guests from various fields to distill the strategies, habits, and mindsets we can use in our own lives. Each “guru” has a chance to give the audience a peek into a new world.
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Email: onethousandgurus@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
J.R. (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of 1000
Gurus with me, your host, jrYonacruz.
So today's guest is a repeatguest.
He is back for part 2, ray Lee.
So Ray is a concept artist,environment concept artist and
digital art teacher in LosAngeles, california, but he will
be moving back to his homecountry of South Korea.
(00:21):
He creates 2D concept art,including environment props,
illustration, logo and characterdesign to professional
standards, showing his designsproblem-solving quality in the
game and entertainment industry.
He has a passion for creatinggaming universes that captivate
players' imagination.
So, as I mentioned in theepisode, ray is my very first
repeat guest.
We've had to schedule it insooner than expected since he's
(00:43):
moving back to his home country,but it was nice to follow up on
some of the topics we didn'tget to in part one, notably
working as an internationalconcept artist in the gaming
industry, ai and ethicalchallenges in art, as well as
the mindset to be successful inthis profession.
It was a shorter than normalepisode, but it was such a
perfect follow-up to the firstone, so hopefully you guys will
get a lot out of this,especially if you really enjoyed
(01:05):
the first one.
So, without further ado, hopeyou enjoy this episode with Ray
Lee Ray, welcome back to theshow.
Hello, thank you for joining usagain.
You are my first repeat guest,so it is a pleasure to have you,
to kind of break the ice onthat, and it's also kind of
(01:26):
special because the reason whywe had you on so soon is because
you're moving back to korea,right yeah to pursue more of
like your, your career, concept,art, design, that stuff in
korea also.
You'll be back to like, see yourfamily and all that stuff.
So I'm excited for you and yournew endeavor and adventure
going back to korea.
But you'll be missed, course,and I'm sure you'll miss hanging
out in LA and all that stuff.
Ray (01:46):
But yeah, happy to have you back.
Thank you, yeah, I know.
J.R. (01:50):
Yeah, of course, and we had a lot of stuff that we
didn't get to in the firstepisode, so I think we wanted to
have a part two, obviously,anyways, so we're just doing it
sooner than later.
Ray (01:59):
So yeah, any clarifications on what you're up to or what's
going on in your immediatefuture before we jump into
topics well, as you justexplained, I'm like in a process
of going back to my homecountry, which is south korea,
but I haven't been there morethan five years, so it's kind of
feels like a new place for meto be honest and, as I mentioned
(02:21):
in the previous episode, it'snot.
It is my home country, but I'm.
It's really hard to say it'sactually home country for me
because I didn't live there theentire of my life.
J.R. (02:30):
Yeah, because you were.
You've been jumping aroundsince you were younger to
different places and stuff likethat.
And your parents lived there,right, yes, right, and so I was
gonna say so.
Five years, I mean, I think Iknow, but so you haven't been
back to south korea in fiveyears, but your parents or your
mom visited recently, orsomething like that yeah, she
did it.
Ray (02:47):
I mean, it's like last year when I was like graduating and
that was the time I the firsttime I was like seeing her after
I got back to the states yeah,so how are you feeling about
moving back?
I guess, just just to recap,it's very like nervous and kind
of exciting and it's more likeI'm like kind of prepared for
(03:08):
what's going to be happeningbecause, as most of people know
about south korea's likesociety's like impression is
pretty highly competitive I meaneverywhere are highly
competitive but more likecultural wise and everything,
it's kind of also impacting thesociety.
So I think that's why I'm likeall right, let's change my
mindset, which is not going tobe a same as here.
(03:30):
So that's like how I'm liketrying to transfer myself, I see
yeah, cool, yeah.
J.R. (03:35):
So you're gonna have to, you know, be prepared for
anything, but you're gonna beadaptable.
And it kind of goes into ourfirst topic, which is and thank
you for helping me brainstormthese questions as well.
I think it was very thoughtful.
So first topic is career growthas an international concept
artist.
And so you are an internationalconcept artist, and so the
first question, which is whatare the pros and cons of
(03:55):
starting with contract work orfreelance work as an
international concept artist?
Ray (04:00):
I think, as an international concept artist, we
have the restriction because ofour visa status, because we are
under the international studentvisa, which is called the F1
visa.
Because of that, we can onlywork that is really related to
(04:21):
our degree, like how we earnedthe degree.
For example, I earned a degreeby doing a lot of digital
painting, traditional drawing,traditional painting.
So I can go out of thisboundary.
For example, I can do the artmanager in the game company,
because art manager relate tothe art team, but they don't
(04:41):
really do artwork daily.
They do the commenting and themanaging it.
So it's that's the differentpart.
So when we go back to thecontract and the freelancing,
there's one more constraintsthat we have to meet the
requirement of the minimumworking hour per week, which is
20 hours per week.
So that's the two thing that wehave to be super careful when
(05:06):
we actually register thefreelancing or contract through
the company okay, and so yousaid there was pros and cons to
that sort of thing.
J.R. (05:17):
Well, like, what are those ?
Ray (05:18):
I'll say the pros will be same as just regular, freelance
or the contractor.
We have our own schedule so wecan work on the project the
company provides it and at thesame time, we can do a different
job to earn extra income.
That's the pros and the conswill be.
(05:38):
You don't have a stable status,so you have to always be aware
about stable status, so you haveto always be aware about am I
not getting it like expire mystatus while I'm like working
with the sum of the company as acontractor?
J.R. (05:52):
or freelancer, okay.
So more flexibility, butbasically less quote-unquote
stability in a sense yes right,that makes sense.
So then, I guess, from thatperspective, how can
international artists expandtheir job opportunities?
I guess, from that perspective,how can international artists
expand their job opportunitiesoutside of the US, and are there
better job markets in othercountries?
Ray (06:09):
Well, at this moment just the game job in general as the
junior concept artist.
It is really tough out there.
Still, as I mentioned on theprevious episode, I think it
didn't really change that muchBecause a lot of companies are
more looking for hiring theexperienced artists.
(06:30):
So still, I guess europeancountry and some of the asian
country are still providing theremote like work opportunity to
the junior concept artists.
I think that will be a goodchance for the beginners to grab
the ideas and also start theircareer outside of the states so
(06:51):
they can actually build theirresume.
J.R. (06:55):
Yes, okay, so there are other markets out there besides
the us that will lendopportunities to those more
junior, less experienced conceptartists exactly gotcha.
Do you know of any right now?
From top of mind that you know,you mentioned Europe.
Yeah.
Are there any other marketsthat you think are more beginner
accessible?
Ray (07:15):
Based on my experience, I think Ukraine has some of the
opportunity for the juniorconcept artists, or Italy some
of the opportunity for thejunior concept artists, or italy
, and sometimes if you gaincompany from switzerland, they
kind of asking for theopportunity.
The like junior concept artistsin the states which it's kind
(07:38):
of they only provide the themoney through their currency,
not the us dollar.
So that's going to be a littlebit a difference for the artist
to like apply for the job andthen figuring out how to receive
the payment okay, so thepayment wise is a little bit
more tricky yes gotcha.
J.R. (07:55):
So I know you're moving back to south korea, but would
you consider any of those othermarkets and, if so, what would
be your top like I don't knowtop places that you would want
to go into?
You mean more like a gamestudio maybe game studios, but
I'm thinking like on the topicof international and like
countries or stuff like that.
Do you have any insights onwhat your top favorites might be
(08:17):
?
Ray (08:18):
I think I will just be more trying to like looking for the
game industry in korea.
Thankfully they have a lot ofjunior concert artist
opportunity out there so I couldapply and trying to see what's
their like trend is and how theyreally think about their
pipeline.
I think that's the challengingpart for me to understand when
(08:42):
I'm going back to korea.
Otherwise I think I'll be justmore be flexible about where do
I can use my like artist skillin a different field.
For example, I can create theemoji on the.
You know like a platform thereyou can sell your art, so it's
kind of becoming like a passiveincome ish system.
J.R. (09:02):
Yeah, I see.
So your top market would stillbe south korea, but you'd be
open to applying your art toother industries yeah, and other
countries, I guess right.
Ray (09:12):
So it's really hard to say which country it is, because
right now everything is veryglobal gotcha.
J.R. (09:17):
So that's why I was like it doesn't really matter too
much about the country, butright like the industry and or
like the company.
Ray (09:22):
Exactly that's why I was mentioning the platform that I
can use it like globally, so Ihave a global like audience.
I can earn some of the income,which sometimes it's like us
dollar, so which is really goodopportunity for me, okay yeah.
J.R. (09:36):
So I guess a little tangent off of that if you could
live in any other countrybesides us and south korea to do
work for, let's say say yourideal companies.
Do you have a top threecountries you'd like to live in,
Countries or cities that you'dlike to live in?
Ray (09:50):
I'll say the Japan.
For sure, tokyo will be areally great opportunity to live
, and second place will be, I'llsay, finland.
J.R. (10:01):
Oh Finland.
Ray (10:02):
Yeah, because Finland is really like nature-friendly
place and I've been there beforethroughout through the travel,
so it was nice experience tolike getting a lot of
inspiration from the actual likeenvironment from the Finland.
J.R. (10:18):
Okay, so the environment, yeah, but not Scandinavian Right
People walking.
Ray (10:25):
And I think the last part will be, I'll say, san francisco
it's still a state yeah yeah,but I just have some of the like
feeling of what will be likefeel different if I live in the
san francisco.
I never had a chance so, yeah,definitely different vibe.
J.R. (10:41):
I'm from the bay area, so I'm familiar with san francisco
but yeah.
I think you're right.
It's more one of those hubs oflike startups tech and all that
stuff like that.
So it would be interesting towork there.
Cool On that note.
So just kind of backpedaling alittle bit.
So you went to Otis.
Do you feel like an Americaneducation gives you an advantage
(11:02):
in the international gamingindustry market?
Ray (11:07):
I'll say yes.
There's two reason.
One is they provide the insightabout, like how to become the
concept artist in general moreinsight than like other schools
yes, because I think the oldestjust gave me a lot of the room
(11:27):
for me to think about how tobecome an artist like the
mindset wise, so I can thinkabout I do have a possibility of
being a character artist or theenvironment concept artist in
the game industry in the future.
Like other than me only thinkabout I can just become a
concept artist.
So they're giving a lot oftryout like system to understand
(11:51):
what's going on in the industry, other than they just focus on
only the techniques or only theinformation.
They known so far.
So I think that's the freedomthat I.
I think the second part will bethe connection Connection from
people who already graduated,people who are already working
in the industry.
I think they provide a lot offeedback and also their know-how
(12:16):
if they are internationalstudents.
So I think that helps me tograsp the idea about how to
survive as the internationalconcept artist in the States.
J.R. (12:28):
Okay, so I know your experience at Otis was good
because you learned a lot offunctional knowledge, not only
of the art but also how to be inthe industry.
But also the network wasvaluable.
So now, stepping back, do youthink, as someone who's applying
for these jobs, do you thinkhaving an American school on
your resume is probably more ofan advantage than, say, having
(12:50):
going to a school in anothercountry international school.
Do you think that gives you anadvantage, saying it's an
American school?
Ray (12:58):
I think I can explain it two way again.
First I'll say yes, it willgive some of the benefits
because it's kind of verifiedthat you went through the four
years of college like educationsystem.
So people will have the kind ofpositive like stereotype that
oh, this person can at leastexecute an amount of the work
(13:20):
and has amount of the dedication.
So that kind of proves it on mydiploma.
J.R. (13:26):
But at the same time I'll say no to that question because
it's not necessarily like whereyou graduate, but how good is
your work, your portfolio, yourexperience, etc.
So you're saying it could goeither way.
Yes, makes sense.
So last thing on this topic ishow should international artists
prepare for industryinstability from your insights
and perspective?
(13:46):
Like layoffs or hiringslowdowns?
I feel like that's a concern ina lot of people's industries,
but what are your thoughts onthat?
Ray (13:53):
I think for that aspect we need to build at least A to C
plan, which is three differentplans, to be aware about the
layoff.
And these days the gameindustry is like a situation as
an international student.
So for me my first plan A isapplying for the job as a game
(14:14):
concept artist in the industry.
And then plan B was trying tolook for some of the slightly
different design field, forexample for what I have known so
far.
Trying to look for some of theslightly different design field.
For example, like for what Ihave known so far, concept
artists can also have chance toapply for the toy industry
because they sometimes lookingfor the illustrator, I see, and
(14:36):
actually like a concept artistposition.
So that kind of gives you roomfor the concept artist to apply
for the different design field.
And also, rarely sometime youcan apply for the graphic
designer like position which youare handling like packaging,
illustration part.
So that kind of helps.
And then plan c, which is I'mcurrently using, it is working
(14:58):
in the private like arteducation system which I apply
for the job to the like aprivate art institution out
there in the states and I workas the digital art, like teacher
slash, like traditional artteacher so I can teach the
student from like different ages.
That helps me to kind of stayon the track and then like visa
(15:19):
state-wise and then I can stilllooking forward to get my
priority like plans opportunityout there.
J.R. (15:25):
Okay, so just having multiple plans is basically like
the best way in any industry toprepare for like changes or
instability and whatnot.
Yeah, nice, yeah, I think that'svery good advice, I think, in
general, for whatever industryyou come from.
Alright, so next topic is AIand ethical challenges in the
game art industry.
Ai and ethical challenges inthe game art industry.
(15:47):
So how are studios balancing AItools with traditional concept
art workflows?
So I know last episode youmentioned kind of like how AI is
being combined or overlaid withthe art process in your field.
Would you like to elaborate onthat?
Ray (16:01):
Yeah, nowadays, some of the companies are starting to use
the AI technique to apply ontheir current game IP.
I think one of the exampleswould be Activision's Call of
Duty.
They start to apply the AItools on their game right now.
So some of the users areexperiencing kind of uncanny
(16:24):
valley of feeling while theyplaying for the game.
I think it was their likeloading screen before they start
the games.
So I think that's the way thecompany is starting to adjust
the new tool, or some of thecompany are actually stating
that we are not going to use theai tools at all and that we
will fully respect the artistswho are dedicated to make their
(16:47):
own ideas other than actuallyusing ai tools to bring some of
the conflict between the artistsand the game company, so it's a
method.
J.R. (16:57):
Well, you're saying that some studios just have a
disclaimer that, okay, we're notgoing to leverage AI tools and
that's to appease the market orthe client, the users, of their
concerns with using AI.
Oh, okay, interesting.
I didn't know that there waspushback in that sense and the
company's like okay well, fine,we'll ease off on that and let
you guys know we respect theartists.
(17:18):
So then how?
Next question is how canartists, what can artists, do to
protect their work from aiscraping and unauthorized use?
Ray (17:27):
I think that's a big thing for ai, since it's gone into art
, sure I think there is like adifferent way to prevent your
work get consumed by the a likeopen ai resources.
I think the first one is youalways check your social media
platform where you upload yourwork and there's always a
privacy setting that you have toturn off to your kind of
(17:52):
consent to sending your artworkor data to the company's
database to use it in adifferent way.
They don't really mention theywill use an AI tool, I think
Meta.
They mention on their privacysetting tools to say this will
be consumed to the AI.
We have to turn it off.
(18:13):
But what I know is so far onlythe states are not having any
option for turn it off on theMeta, which is like Instagram or
their Facebook, so which that'skind of has the little bit gone
to the vital, like last year.
So right now people are moresettled, so some people aren't
(18:34):
actually not using instagramanymore to promote their art or
some people are still like justuploading it, even if they
realize the ai will consumetheir artwork in in the end.
And then the last part.
There's one university in thestates.
They developed the one of theprogram only for the artists to
(18:56):
prevent their work to get stolenby the ai tool, which is called
the glaze, like a glaze donutyeah yeah, so actually actually
they digitally glaze on yourartwork to prevent AI tools to
recognizing it, scraping it.
But that is not on the top levelyet.
They're still developing itfrom university.
(19:18):
So when you kind of glaze yourartwork it becomes a little bit
less high-resoluted like artworkI see.
J.R. (19:29):
So there's like a drop back to that too.
So then, what are industryprofessionals as concerns about
ai in concept art and how is theindustry responding?
So I know you kind of justmentioned the, the pushback and
the tools that could helpprevent the use of that and what
you can do as an artist.
Either you don't upload or youupload certain places.
But yeah, what are the concernsand how is the industry
(19:49):
responding?
Ray (19:50):
I think right now it's kind of mixed response compared to
the beginning.
Beginning was more like peopleare feeling very like, against
about the AI tools.
Right now, some of the majorcompanies, like, as I mentioned,
like Activision they'restarting looking for people who
are like, have ability to handlethe AI tools to make the work.
(20:16):
So I think that people are justlike okay I think we can just
like move on to using the toolsto develop our work more, faster
and a better quality, andthere's other half of people
were saying that is stilldisrespectful about, like how we
form this community, and thenif we wanted longevity of this
(20:40):
community, then we should keepthe artist, the respectful
aspect, other than we justcontinue to receiving what's
going on in the around the worldabout the new technology I see
it's almost like those sci-fibooks or movies where it's like
the purists versus theprogressives right, we should
use technology and steampunk togo into the future.
J.R. (21:02):
And so we were like, oh no , the the past and we need to
preserve the integrity of that.
It's very interesting, okay.
So last question on this topicis how should aspiring concept
artists adapt to ai withoutlosing their artistic integrity?
Ray (21:15):
I think this is what I also heard it from my professional
friends outside of the it's notoutside of it, actually like
people who are currently workingin the industry.
They're saying that if you wantto maintain your artist aspect,
you have to gain your designknowledge and then design skill
(21:37):
so you can actually use the aitool to let them paint your
design work, which will be asketch.
Other than that, it's kind ofbecoming challenging for you to
overcome having a betterpainting than the ai, because
once you're not enhancing yourfundamental art skill that I
(21:57):
mentioned on the previous likeepisode, you'll get loosed by
the ai or you'll be eaten by theai, so you can't make a better
work than the ai.
So I think that's the mainaspect.
We should keep it in mind.
So stay strong and then keeppracticing on your fundamental
art and then enhance your designability so the company will
(22:20):
notice the value in the futureor even sooner.
Okay.
J.R. (22:28):
And that makes a lot of sense.
Still practice your fundamentalart skill, but learn how to use
the tools and leverage it justto develop your skill sets and
whatnot Right, all right.
So topic number three, if wewant to move forward and
leverage it just to develop yourskill sets and whatnot, all
right.
So topic number three, if wewant to move forward, is the
mental and professional mindsetof success.
So how can concept artists staymotivated when facing long job
(22:49):
searches, especially in today'stough market?
So again, we're talking abouthow the market is really tough,
and that's across a lot ofindustries and, as someone who's
familiar with the job searchbeing international and then
looking for work, here and nowyou're going to be going back to
South Crete to look for work.
What are some of your thoughtsor insights on that?
Ray (23:12):
I think so far what I experienced.
I'll say there's two mainthings that I should keep in
mind.
First, just do it Just like thequote that we know everyone
knows yeah, nike, yes, Nike.
Just do it just like the quotethat we know everyone knows yeah
, nike, yes, nike.
And then, because, yes, we needa lot of like strategies or the
plans to figure out how tosurvive as international, like
artists in the states, but atthe same time, if we are
(23:33):
obsessed with the plan or thestrategy that I build it up
already, then if anythinghappened out of control things
are happen then you will losethe motivation, which is becomes
very toxic part to the artist,because art is like the language
, very intangible aspect.
(23:53):
If you're not keep using it, youwill lose the ability.
So, trying to separate yourselfabout the reality and then like
doing the art by yourself, sotrying to enjoy the art in
general.
I think that's the main aspect.
I think the second part isalways keep it in mind about the
(24:16):
negative aspect too.
Always keep it in mind aboutthe negative aspect too, because
I know everyone's are notreally wanted to think about the
negative aspect, but if you arekind of think about the
negative aspect not too deeply.
Then you will also have abetter idea about how to like
solving the problem, like how Idid it right now or how I'm
(24:37):
actually doing it right now,going back to like my home
country and then looking for thegame industry like market over
there.
J.R. (24:44):
So that will helps you to keep stay on your main like
motivation when you say thenegative aspect, are you
referring to the feelings ofcoming like hitting a wall and
not really getting the results,or what?
Ray (24:59):
yeah, I think, the frustration from not getting any
result from the job market andthen plus with doubting about
your skill, because you knowwhen you're not getting the job
market result, then you willstart to doubting yourself that.
Am I not like enough for thisindustry or am I not doing
something like better thanbefore?
(25:22):
So trying to like, not thinkingabout those negative aspects,
but trying to look at out theactual like, the facts.
Like if you are have multiplechance to do the interview in
the job market but you stilldidn't get any result, that
means your portfolio is is onthe green, like like it's not
(25:44):
like red flag or anything.
You have to understand that it'sjust like maybe I'm lack of the
experience compared to theother candidates because, as I
mentioned it earlier, all theposition in the states are like
senior or at least likemid-level.
So the for the junior artiststhey're agreeing that your
(26:04):
portfolio, if you get theinterview, they're saying well,
your portfolio, are close tothat level, but your experience
or maybe your interview likeresult was not great enough to
get to your final like sectionyeah, makes sense.
J.R. (26:20):
So how do artists avoid burnout when balancing job
applications, portfolio work andpersonal projects?
So, again, like, balance isvery important and if you're
hitting the ground running anddoing all these multiple things,
obviously balance is a bigissue, right?
Yeah?
Ray (26:34):
I think there's three ways to prevent that burnout while
you're preparing the portfolioand everything I'll say.
First, make the timetable foryour portfolio, just like how we
went to the college and thenhave to every time have a time
schedule for each semester.
If you have that on track, thenyou will have a better idea of
(26:59):
like where am I at?
Right now and what should I doto finish this project other
than you?
Just, okay, let's just startmaking a character just do it.
Yeah, yeah I think that doesn'treally help.
You need some of like actualplan, solid plan, and the second
part is trying to have likeyour own like mentor, not just
(27:21):
like you working on your art byyourself.
You need to talk with theactual, like professional people
out there to tracking yourself.
Am I like still on the track onthis like industry's like trend
, or is it my portfolio qualityare getting better?
Because eventually, being anartist is that we could, most of
(27:43):
the time we could like kind ofobsess with our art, so we were
losing the aspect about is myart looking good on the like
commercial art field?
Because this is not like actual, like contemporary art, because
that's actually way differentfield.
But we always have to satisfythe client and the game company.
(28:06):
So that's why that's theimportance of having the mentor
out there.
And the last part will betrying to give yourself to do
the art that you like to do itmost, which is following your
desire.
For example, for me, I love todo the a lot of like landscape
painting without like actuallydesigning my like landscape.
(28:30):
I like to do the painting justlike observing, painting
literally or drawing the peopleout there while I'm like sitting
on the coffee shop.
So those kind of like doodlingphase is very important for you
to not getting burned out andalso losing the motivation I
like that a lot.
J.R. (28:50):
Those three points are pretty insightful.
Actually, I don't want to readit because I think that was
really good.
Just go back and listen to that.
How do personal projects helpconcept artists stay competitive
and relevant?
I think this is a greatquestion because that's one of
those the issues of you need jobexperience to get this
entry-level job catch-22 thingwhich is okay, how do I get this
(29:13):
job?
I have no experience, but Ineed this job to get the
experience.
And now it's like a loop right,and so the question is like how
do personal projects help you tostay competitive so that you're
doing something, but what areyour thoughts on that?
Could you?
Ray (29:25):
elaborate the question one more time.
Yeah.
J.R. (29:26):
So how do personal projects help concept artists
stay competitive and relevant?
Ray (29:32):
I think there's like two different ways.
I think the first is buildingyour portfolio.
It's still counting as apersonal project because what I
understand so far, what Ilearned from the industry people
, is that eventually for thejunior concept artists, like
your portfolio is equal to thepersonal project, but if you
(29:55):
have experience and you have ndawork, that's what we call the
professional work.
That's how I realized recognizethe difference.
So I think, stay on like track.
Personal project will be alwaystrying to see the trends of the
game industry out there.
For example, game is like gameindustry like trends, is like a
fashion like trends.
(30:16):
Yeah, it's a stay up to date.
Yeah, it's keep cycle.
So right now, this is like themoment where most of like
popular games have a lot ofmedieval like era of the game
style.
Or they have a lot of like morethan future style, which is
like a lot of shooting gamesthat are more a little bity like
(30:36):
outfits and a lot of techygraphics are out there.
Or the other part is they use alot of popular animation IP to
bring it to their game, forexample, blizzard
Entertainment's Overwatch game.
They're creating a lot of game,the character's skin design
based on bringing ip fromjapan's popular animation, so
(31:00):
that kind of helps you tounderstand what's the trends out
there and then you actuallyapply to that your personal
project.
For example, you can actuallyremake, redesign some of like
already existing ip but, at thesame time, you have to be very
careful to not get obsessed withthe original IP design style.
So, I would highly recommend tostart with your actual personal
(31:25):
IP, other than just followingthe trends what actually game
companies are doing out there.
And then the last part will beyou need to be setting up the
portfolio's layout.
What I mean by layout is theorder of how you're trying to
(31:46):
show your portfolio to therecruiters or the game company
in general.
For example, for me, since I'man environment concept artist,
on my website I try to show alot of design ability about the
environment concept artist.
On my website I tried to show alot of like design ability
about the environment conceptartists they require in the game
industry.
So I 80, I put a lot ofenvironment concept artwork in a
(32:08):
front low of my portfolio andthen, when it goes scrolling and
down, I show the character andthe props, which is still
relevant to the environmentbecause it still has character
and props inside.
So that's how I build up myportfolio, based on how people
are observing my work, to theytrying to hire me or not I see,
(32:31):
yeah, all right, as some, as anon-artist who does not have a
portfolio, how do you approachbuilding one?
J.R. (32:39):
Because you say adding to portfolio, constantly building
it?
Like, how do you know or decidewhat to draw, what to design,
what to build in that order?
And I know you mentionedfollowing those trends, being up
to date with what's relevantand then potentially developing
your own style, but also takingother existing IPs and maybe
making your own, but also takingother existing IPs and maybe
making your own, making aspinoff, depending on what
(33:01):
trends are there.
But how do you decide what goesinto that portfolio?
If that question makes sense.
Ray (33:07):
Yeah, I mean there is a different way to decide how
you're going to build yourportfolio in the end.
For example, it's kind ofrelevant to the previous episode
how I mentioned about thestylization about the portfolio
and everything, so that alsoincluded.
After you actually decide yourart stylization, for me I will.
(33:30):
My work is heavily depends onlike henley digital painting
style, so I have to keep it ontrack about building my
portfolio to being like handilypainted and then plus with is
that this will be going to bevery cute and plus, since I'm an
environment concept artist andmy know how to paint a different
(33:52):
day of the time and differentweather, so that kind of like
shows on my portfolio.
J.R. (33:58):
Those aspects.
Yeah, the aspect you can dodifferent sides to that.
Ray (34:01):
And then when it comes to the, since it's like technical
art, you have to show your likeunderstanding of the
functionality of the design.
Are you actually just creatingthe art or are you actually
creating the art and design atthe same time?
Just like how I design myvehicle design on my website,
Like is it this actually will bework in the real life?
So those things are important,but when we purely just going
(34:27):
back to the question to answerit, I'll say you really need the
mentor.
Of course, there is a lot ofresources out there, you see
there from Instagram or Facebookor even different education
online platforms out there, butthe one thing is that they are
(34:48):
great artists.
However, in any field, even ifyou're good at executing your
work, they are not good ateducating a lot of people how
they want it to do.
So some people will have astruggle to understand their
information.
If you purchase the package ofonline classes, Like a video
(35:11):
course exactly.
So you need like in-personmentor in your life to keep in
track and also getting a fulladvice.
I'm not saying like you shouldnot like looking out the online
classes out there.
J.R. (35:24):
Yeah, you will have opportunity like a lot of good
resources out there, butmentorship is very valuable and
it's very pointed or veryspecific that can like.
Ray (35:34):
Accelerate your growth and guidance it's more like they can
help you to diagnose about yourcurrent status.
It's like a coach, right?
J.R. (35:41):
they can see like your blind spots and figure out where
you need to grow, better thanjust a blanket video course that
just gives you general a to zright.
Right, I like that.
And yeah, thanks all forpulling up ray's portfolio.
Those are really good imageimages and illustrations.
Highly recommend everyone checkout ray's portfolio.
His work is gorgeous.
As a non-artist myself, and Ican appreciate good looking art
(36:04):
as a newbie yes, his work isreally good.
Thank you, okay.
So next question is how canjunior artists deal with
imposter syndrome and buildconfidence in their work?
Ray (36:16):
I think it's kind of like same thing how I answered your
previous question, but I willsay separate yourself about
getting evaluated by theprofessional extender and trying
to keep yourself and then thinkabout the reason why you start
this like path for your actualprofessional career.
(36:41):
Because this is also kind ofsame as how you like being an
adult, because once you've grownit up and getting out from all
the education, militaryeducation system, you'll have a
lot of interaction withdifferent types of people that
you haven't meet in your liferight, and then you might have
the time or the experience ofgetting hurted by what people
(37:02):
other people are saying it toyou or you'll have the struggle
because of you couldn'trecognize your like the bad part
or the not a great habit tointeract with the people.
It's the same thing as in theart too.
So trying to keep yourself thatonce people are like commenting
about something about your artmeans they are not looking
(37:24):
forward to just like doubtingabout your work.
Actually they are the peoplewho are trying to help you,
unless they're really saying ina disrespectful way.
So trying to being open-mindedabout getting a critics from
outside and the separateyourself that this is just
(37:45):
credit to help my work to getbetter and then consume that
advice and trying to organizeyour thoughts before you
actually doing your art.
So this will help you toenhance your skills and also not
getting too much stress fromlike when you're getting the
advice or the critics out thereso being good with taking
(38:08):
feedback and critiques andwhatnot and then improving and
focusing on that.
J.R. (38:11):
Yeah, not necessarily imposter syndrome like how bad I
am or I don't.
I'm not meant to be here, butjust focus on improving your
work.
Next one, or I guess the lastone in the section, is what
advice from senior artists hashelped junior concept artists
the most in their career growthsenior concept artists, since
they already went through thethe junior level experience and
everything, so they will.
Ray (38:35):
If you have chance to talk with the senior concept artists,
they will give their insightabout their experience, which is
literally a shortcut.
So, trying to create theopportunity, even like in person
or online, like linkedin, likeprofessional, like recruiting,
like platform, trying to reachout them, even if it's
embarrassing and it's prettylike pressure, and trying to get
(39:00):
different types of the opinionfrom the different, like senior
concept artists, for example,once you get that big data and
then you will find out thecommon advice they are giving it
.
So trying to extract thatcommon advice and then apply to
your work, like habit or theworkflow, or even your like art
style, everything then it willhelp you to understand how to
(39:25):
get to that like professionallevel.
J.R. (39:27):
Okay, so getting a lot of advice from a lot of different
perspectives and kind of findingthose common denominators or
threads that connect everythingand that helps you grow the most
, basically.
So basically, it's like amindset of just consistent
adaptation, learning and alwaysseeking feedback and advice, and
I think that makes sense for alot of different career fields,
(39:50):
right, yeah, I think that's itfor, like the plan questions.
But I think it reminds me I washaving a conversation with a
friend recently and they're UCLAstudent and I think most, like
students, have this same sort ofconception.
I think we were talking aboutthis.
It's tough when you're in acompetitive environment, let's
say from a very competitiveschool or environment where
(40:10):
everyone's doing all theseamazing things and their
portfolio is amazing and they'reworking with all these
companies, and it's easy tocompare yourself and, like you
said, get into those negativemindsets of feeling like you're
an imposter, feeling like you'rebehind and feeling like you are
not going to make it in thistough economy and job market.
And I think what I saideventually is that I think
(40:34):
people are aware that comparingdoesn't help you.
I think focusing on yourimprovement and growth, what
you've been saying is veryimportant, but I think the
second thing that I was thatcame to mind was I feel like,
aside from preventing yourselffrom feeling doom and gloom, the
time horizons for you to besuccessful is a lot bigger than
people think, because they feellike I have to figure out my
(40:57):
stuff within the next two years,within my undergraduate even
recent, like in my first twoyears of graduating and if I
don't do that, then it's the endof the world.
Right, but as adults, peoplewho have been in the workforce
for a lot longer, you have moretime than you think to be
successful.
And not only that, but I think,if you, the big question and I
(41:23):
know I'm tangent rambling, butthe big question is how do I
find the job security andstability in any industry?
And that's the question that alot of those students or like
early in your career people willask.
It's like how do I have jobstability, because I do not want
to get into this market andworry about having a job and
getting fired and all this otherstuff.
And my thought is that how doyou get job?
Security is be really, really,really good at what you do, be
that people will want to hireyou.
(41:43):
That there are no openpositions at Google, let's say,
but the Google manager, hiringmanagers will hire you, you
anyways, because you're, youhave a great reputation and
you've done a lot of good stuffand you're the best in the
industry, right?
So the next question is how doyou become very good?
at what you do right?
Ray (41:58):
that's really a insightful question for any industry out
there because, as we know, moretime pass the world trying to
change really fast and a lot ofstands are becoming very high
quality and then looking for thefast result in any field.
So at that point there is likepro and cons.
(42:19):
Pro is you can have a lot offreedom to do anything and the
cons is like you will get a lotof pressure and then you will
feel a lot of stress how youexplain feel behind from the
college year to like after yougraduated.
So to try to realisticallyfigure out that aspect, I'll say
(42:41):
taking the advantage of how theworld is changing, which is
using the technology of likedifferent like social media
platform to self-promoteyourself like, for example, like
as the concept artists a lot ofartists are low-key, mandatory
to self-promote their self inany different like art platform.
(43:03):
Yeah, so they're exhibiting,literally they're doing the art
show by themselves on online toshowcasing that.
Do this amount of work a to z.
So if you are gettinginterested, hit me up and then I
will try my best to likerespond and if we have a great
opportunity, I will like alwaysopen to work together.
(43:25):
So you show that constancyabout like self-promoting
yourself other than you obsessabout the amount of the likes
and amount exposed that you willget on the social media
platform.
That you might think that I'mgetting popular or not, that's
not important because, aseveryone know, once the
(43:47):
algorithm like kind of picks youup, yeah you will get vital.
But I think that's not theimportant part if you're not
good at your.
J.R. (43:53):
If your work isn't good, yeah, what's the point?
and if you're not promoting, orif you're not going out there
and putting out your work, it'snot going to go anywhere, yeah,
yeah I like that a lot and also,too, I think there's a step
back from that is self-awarenessof what you meant to what
you're meant to be doing.
So, in your case, or in otherpeople's cases, they know what
they want to do and they havethe self-awareness, like
yourself, of okay, concept art,environmental concept artists
(44:16):
you know, work in the video gameindustry.
Some people don't really knowwhat they want to do, right, and
they might be pressured orinfluenced into three different
industries.
They're not really sure.
But I think the point being isthat if you have that
self-awareness and you know thatyou really want to do a certain
thing because, one, you'rewired to do it naturally,
because your brain works thatway, and, two, you really enjoy
(44:36):
it, so that you get somethingfrom it that allows you to be
really good at it.
Ray (44:40):
I think the first, if you already have your self-awareness
about what you like to do, youalready figure out the big part,
because a lot of people, as youmentioned, are still figuring
out to find out what they love,because these days, working at
the company in the traditionalstyle will not help you to
survive.
J.R. (44:59):
Yeah, like economical wise you're not going to be.
You're not going to be indemand or the best and have job
security.
If you hate what you're doing,but you're in an industry that's
quote-unquote stable.
I hear that so many times.
It's oh, I want to go into thisindustry.
Why?
Because it's stable, I'm like.
But you don't love it andyou're not good at it, so why
would you ever be great at itand why would they ever keep you
on the payroll?
Ray (45:19):
exactly yeah.
So I think that's why recently,what I've been researching
about the job market in general,like when I was trying to plan
to going back to korea.
I heard the term about thedigital nomad.
It's you don't have really aphysical place to work, but
you're working anywhere whileyou're traveling, like in a
(45:40):
different city.
So your work, for example, likeas a korean, I'd go, I work at
like fill in, for example, ineurope, but I get the job in the
fill-in to work remotely, butthey still don't require you to
submit your visa to stay therelonger.
You're like staying there likea couple months and but you're
(46:01):
getting the experience and thenyou still get like constant
income by register yourself inthe like, a bigger global like
platform that will assist theadditional nomad people to work
in any like country, so whichthat becomes like your personal
business, because people willget scared about like when, say,
I want to start the businessmeans like we need a lot of
(46:23):
money and then we need enoughexperience to and then learn
about the industry and then runthe business.
That will help to likesuccessfully run the business.
Otherwise it will waste themoney or the time.
But I think nowadays that's nothow it was used to be.
It's it's very different.
(46:43):
You can open your business onyour instagram, for example, you
can make a sticker like cutecharacter for.
You can make a sticker likecute character for me.
I can make a cute character,yeah, and then upload it on the
global platform, so people willpurchase it and I can send the
sticker around the world.
J.R. (46:58):
Yeah, open up an Etsy shop right now.
Yeah, I like it.
Okay, right, I think we'reshort on time, but this was such
a fruitful conversation.
I'm glad we were able to dopart two, and I'm sure you know
eventually, if it's in the cards, maybe a part three if it works
out and when you come back, orsomething like that.
So let's wrap this up.
So we end, as usual, withgratitude.
(47:19):
So, ray, I know we did thisrecently, but what are you
grateful for?
Ray (47:23):
I think I'm grateful for, of course, for like podcast
opportunity to getting know youwhile I'm like staying in the
states, and then I could sharethis ideas to the people who are
in the same page or people whowill going to have a same page
with me, so they will have lesslike stress, like moment.
J.R. (47:43):
Yeah, so I think that's the great full part for me
nowadays yes, yeah, I appreciateand I'm sure the audience is
too sharing your insights, yourhard-earned insights, with the
rest of us so we can take a peekand maybe learn something from
that um, okay final ask from theaudience or any takeaways you
want them to have from the showbesides, hire me in south korea.
Ray (48:03):
But other than that, other than that, I think, thanks for
um spending time to listen myepisodes, which is like.
This is part two already andlisten to part one.
J.R. (48:16):
That's my, that's my ask.
Ray (48:17):
It's a great episode, thank you yeah and then it is really
honored to share my experienceout there, even if there's not a
lot of people are listening atthe moment, but still still
thanks for listening.
J.R. (48:30):
Yeah, of course, all right .
Last thing I know it's going tobe linked and it's in the first
episode, but, ray, if peoplewant to check out what you're up
to or connect or anything likethat, where can they find you?
Ray (48:41):
You can find me on the Instagram right below here.
There you go, ray Lee R, onInstagram, and then you will see
all the hyperlinks that relateto my professional work.
J.R. (48:53):
Nice and it'll have his face like that Right on there.
Yes, cool.
Well, all right, ray, thank youso much again for being here.
I appreciate it.
It was a lot of fun and it wasa very fruitful conversation.
And thank you for thebrainstorm questions.
Oh, no worries, again, shoutout to Ray, shout out to Ray.
He helped brainstorm a lot ofthese questions and I think
they're very pointed andinsightful.
So for my final sign-off, thankyou guys again for tuning in.
(49:13):
As always, reminder to be kindto other people, especially
yourself, and remember that youcan always learn something from
someone, even multiple times, ifyou just take the time to
listen.
So thanks for tuning in, thanksso much.
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of 1000
Gurus with me, your host, jrYonacruz.
So today's guest is a repeatguest.
He is back for part 2, ray Lee.
So Ray is a concept artist,environment concept artist and
digital art teacher in LosAngeles, california, but he will
be moving back to his homecountry of South Korea.
(00:21):
He creates 2D concept art,including environment props,
illustration, logo and characterdesign to professional
standards, showing his designsproblem-solving quality in the
game and entertainment industry.
He has a passion for creatinggaming universes that captivate
players' imagination.
So, as I mentioned in theepisode, ray is my very first
repeat guest.
We've had to schedule it insooner than expected since he's
(00:43):
moving back to his home country,but it was nice to follow up on
some of the topics we didn'tget to in part one, notably
working as an internationalconcept artist in the gaming
industry, ai and ethicalchallenges in art, as well as
the mindset to be successful inthis profession.
It was a shorter than normalepisode, but it was such a
perfect follow-up to the firstone, so hopefully you guys will
get a lot out of this,especially if you really enjoyed
(01:05):
the first one.
So, without further ado, hopeyou enjoy this episode with Ray
Lee Ray, welcome back to theshow.
Hello, thank you for joining usagain.
You are my first repeat guest,so it is a pleasure to have you,
to kind of break the ice onthat, and it's also kind of
(01:26):
special because the reason whywe had you on so soon is because
you're moving back to korea,right yeah to pursue more of
like your, your career, concept,art, design, that stuff in
korea also.
You'll be back to like, see yourfamily and all that stuff.
So I'm excited for you and yournew endeavor and adventure
going back to korea.
But you'll be missed, course,and I'm sure you'll miss hanging
out in LA and all that stuff.
Ray (01:46):
But yeah, happy to have you back.
Thank you, yeah, I know.
J.R. (01:50):
Yeah, of course, and we had a lot of stuff that we
didn't get to in the firstepisode, so I think we wanted to
have a part two, obviously,anyways, so we're just doing it
sooner than later.
Ray (01:59):
So yeah, any clarifications on what you're up to or what's
going on in your immediatefuture before we jump into
topics well, as you justexplained, I'm like in a process
of going back to my homecountry, which is south korea,
but I haven't been there morethan five years, so it's kind of
feels like a new place for meto be honest and, as I mentioned
(02:21):
in the previous episode, it'snot.
It is my home country, but I'm.
It's really hard to say it'sactually home country for me
because I didn't live there theentire of my life.
J.R. (02:30):
Yeah, because you were.
You've been jumping aroundsince you were younger to
different places and stuff likethat.
And your parents lived there,right, yes, right, and so I was
gonna say so.
Five years, I mean, I think Iknow, but so you haven't been
back to south korea in fiveyears, but your parents or your
mom visited recently, orsomething like that yeah, she
did it.
Ray (02:47):
I mean, it's like last year when I was like graduating and
that was the time I the firsttime I was like seeing her after
I got back to the states yeah,so how are you feeling about
moving back?
I guess, just just to recap,it's very like nervous and kind
of exciting and it's more likeI'm like kind of prepared for
(03:08):
what's going to be happeningbecause, as most of people know
about south korea's likesociety's like impression is
pretty highly competitive I meaneverywhere are highly
competitive but more likecultural wise and everything,
it's kind of also impacting thesociety.
So I think that's why I'm likeall right, let's change my
mindset, which is not going tobe a same as here.
(03:30):
So that's like how I'm liketrying to transfer myself, I see
yeah, cool, yeah.
J.R. (03:35):
So you're gonna have to, you know, be prepared for
anything, but you're gonna beadaptable.
And it kind of goes into ourfirst topic, which is and thank
you for helping me brainstormthese questions as well.
I think it was very thoughtful.
So first topic is career growthas an international concept
artist.
And so you are an internationalconcept artist, and so the
first question, which is whatare the pros and cons of
(03:55):
starting with contract work orfreelance work as an
international concept artist?
Ray (04:00):
I think, as an international concept artist, we
have the restriction because ofour visa status, because we are
under the international studentvisa, which is called the F1
visa.
Because of that, we can onlywork that is really related to
(04:21):
our degree, like how we earnedthe degree.
For example, I earned a degreeby doing a lot of digital
painting, traditional drawing,traditional painting.
So I can go out of thisboundary.
For example, I can do the artmanager in the game company,
because art manager relate tothe art team, but they don't
(04:41):
really do artwork daily.
They do the commenting and themanaging it.
So it's that's the differentpart.
So when we go back to thecontract and the freelancing,
there's one more constraintsthat we have to meet the
requirement of the minimumworking hour per week, which is
20 hours per week.
So that's the two thing that wehave to be super careful when
(05:06):
we actually register thefreelancing or contract through
the company okay, and so yousaid there was pros and cons to
that sort of thing.
J.R. (05:17):
Well, like, what are those ?
Ray (05:18):
I'll say the pros will be same as just regular, freelance
or the contractor.
We have our own schedule so wecan work on the project the
company provides it and at thesame time, we can do a different
job to earn extra income.
That's the pros and the conswill be.
(05:38):
You don't have a stable status,so you have to always be aware
about stable status, so you haveto always be aware about am I
not getting it like expire mystatus while I'm like working
with the sum of the company as acontractor?
J.R. (05:52):
or freelancer, okay.
So more flexibility, butbasically less quote-unquote
stability in a sense yes right,that makes sense.
So then, I guess, from thatperspective, how can
international artists expandtheir job opportunities?
I guess, from that perspective,how can international artists
expand their job opportunitiesoutside of the US, and are there
better job markets in othercountries?
Ray (06:09):
Well, at this moment just the game job in general as the
junior concept artist.
It is really tough out there.
Still, as I mentioned on theprevious episode, I think it
didn't really change that muchBecause a lot of companies are
more looking for hiring theexperienced artists.
(06:30):
So still, I guess europeancountry and some of the asian
country are still providing theremote like work opportunity to
the junior concept artists.
I think that will be a goodchance for the beginners to grab
the ideas and also start theircareer outside of the states so
(06:51):
they can actually build theirresume.
J.R. (06:55):
Yes, okay, so there are other markets out there besides
the us that will lendopportunities to those more
junior, less experienced conceptartists exactly gotcha.
Do you know of any right now?
From top of mind that you know,you mentioned Europe.
Yeah.
Are there any other marketsthat you think are more beginner
accessible?
Ray (07:15):
Based on my experience, I think Ukraine has some of the
opportunity for the juniorconcept artists, or Italy some
of the opportunity for thejunior concept artists, or italy
, and sometimes if you gaincompany from switzerland, they
kind of asking for theopportunity.
The like junior concept artistsin the states which it's kind
(07:38):
of they only provide the themoney through their currency,
not the us dollar.
So that's going to be a littlebit a difference for the artist
to like apply for the job andthen figuring out how to receive
the payment okay, so thepayment wise is a little bit
more tricky yes gotcha.
J.R. (07:55):
So I know you're moving back to south korea, but would
you consider any of those othermarkets and, if so, what would
be your top like I don't knowtop places that you would want
to go into?
You mean more like a gamestudio maybe game studios, but
I'm thinking like on the topicof international and like
countries or stuff like that.
Do you have any insights onwhat your top favorites might be
(08:17):
?
Ray (08:18):
I think I will just be more trying to like looking for the
game industry in korea.
Thankfully they have a lot ofjunior concert artist
opportunity out there so I couldapply and trying to see what's
their like trend is and how theyreally think about their
pipeline.
I think that's the challengingpart for me to understand when
(08:42):
I'm going back to korea.
Otherwise I think I'll be justmore be flexible about where do
I can use my like artist skillin a different field.
For example, I can create theemoji on the.
You know like a platform thereyou can sell your art, so it's
kind of becoming like a passiveincome ish system.
J.R. (09:02):
Yeah, I see.
So your top market would stillbe south korea, but you'd be
open to applying your art toother industries yeah, and other
countries, I guess right.
Ray (09:12):
So it's really hard to say which country it is, because
right now everything is veryglobal gotcha.
J.R. (09:17):
So that's why I was like it doesn't really matter too
much about the country, butright like the industry and or
like the company.
Ray (09:22):
Exactly that's why I was mentioning the platform that I
can use it like globally, so Ihave a global like audience.
I can earn some of the income,which sometimes it's like us
dollar, so which is really goodopportunity for me, okay yeah.
J.R. (09:36):
So I guess a little tangent off of that if you could
live in any other countrybesides us and south korea to do
work for, let's say say yourideal companies.
Do you have a top threecountries you'd like to live in,
Countries or cities that you'dlike to live in?
Ray (09:50):
I'll say the Japan.
For sure, tokyo will be areally great opportunity to live
, and second place will be, I'llsay, finland.
J.R. (10:01):
Oh Finland.
Ray (10:02):
Yeah, because Finland is really like nature-friendly
place and I've been there beforethroughout through the travel,
so it was nice experience tolike getting a lot of
inspiration from the actual likeenvironment from the Finland.
J.R. (10:18):
Okay, so the environment, yeah, but not Scandinavian Right
People walking.
Ray (10:25):
And I think the last part will be, I'll say, san francisco
it's still a state yeah yeah,but I just have some of the like
feeling of what will be likefeel different if I live in the
san francisco.
I never had a chance so, yeah,definitely different vibe.
J.R. (10:41):
I'm from the bay area, so I'm familiar with san francisco
but yeah.
I think you're right.
It's more one of those hubs oflike startups tech and all that
stuff like that.
So it would be interesting towork there.
Cool On that note.
So just kind of backpedaling alittle bit.
So you went to Otis.
Do you feel like an Americaneducation gives you an advantage
(11:02):
in the international gamingindustry market?
Ray (11:07):
I'll say yes.
There's two reason.
One is they provide the insightabout, like how to become the
concept artist in general moreinsight than like other schools
yes, because I think the oldestjust gave me a lot of the room
(11:27):
for me to think about how tobecome an artist like the
mindset wise, so I can thinkabout I do have a possibility of
being a character artist or theenvironment concept artist in
the game industry in the future.
Like other than me only thinkabout I can just become a
concept artist.
So they're giving a lot oftryout like system to understand
(11:51):
what's going on in the industry, other than they just focus on
only the techniques or only theinformation.
They known so far.
So I think that's the freedomthat I.
I think the second part will bethe connection Connection from
people who already graduated,people who are already working
in the industry.
I think they provide a lot offeedback and also their know-how
(12:16):
if they are internationalstudents.
So I think that helps me tograsp the idea about how to
survive as the internationalconcept artist in the States.
J.R. (12:28):
Okay, so I know your experience at Otis was good
because you learned a lot offunctional knowledge, not only
of the art but also how to be inthe industry.
But also the network wasvaluable.
So now, stepping back, do youthink, as someone who's applying
for these jobs, do you thinkhaving an American school on
your resume is probably more ofan advantage than, say, having
(12:50):
going to a school in anothercountry international school.
Do you think that gives you anadvantage, saying it's an
American school?
Ray (12:58):
I think I can explain it two way again.
First I'll say yes, it willgive some of the benefits
because it's kind of verifiedthat you went through the four
years of college like educationsystem.
So people will have the kind ofpositive like stereotype that
oh, this person can at leastexecute an amount of the work
(13:20):
and has amount of the dedication.
So that kind of proves it on mydiploma.
J.R. (13:26):
But at the same time I'll say no to that question because
it's not necessarily like whereyou graduate, but how good is
your work, your portfolio, yourexperience, etc.
So you're saying it could goeither way.
Yes, makes sense.
So last thing on this topic ishow should international artists
prepare for industryinstability from your insights
and perspective?
(13:46):
Like layoffs or hiringslowdowns?
I feel like that's a concern ina lot of people's industries,
but what are your thoughts onthat?
Ray (13:53):
I think for that aspect we need to build at least A to C
plan, which is three differentplans, to be aware about the
layoff.
And these days the gameindustry is like a situation as
an international student.
So for me my first plan A isapplying for the job as a game
(14:14):
concept artist in the industry.
And then plan B was trying tolook for some of the slightly
different design field, forexample for what I have known so
far.
Trying to look for some of theslightly different design field.
For example, like for what Ihave known so far, concept
artists can also have chance toapply for the toy industry
because they sometimes lookingfor the illustrator, I see, and
(14:36):
actually like a concept artistposition.
So that kind of gives you roomfor the concept artist to apply
for the different design field.
And also, rarely sometime youcan apply for the graphic
designer like position which youare handling like packaging,
illustration part.
So that kind of helps.
And then plan c, which is I'mcurrently using, it is working
(14:58):
in the private like arteducation system which I apply
for the job to the like aprivate art institution out
there in the states and I workas the digital art, like teacher
slash, like traditional artteacher so I can teach the
student from like different ages.
That helps me to kind of stayon the track and then like visa
(15:19):
state-wise and then I can stilllooking forward to get my
priority like plans opportunityout there.
J.R. (15:25):
Okay, so just having multiple plans is basically like
the best way in any industry toprepare for like changes or
instability and whatnot.
Yeah, nice, yeah, I think that'svery good advice, I think, in
general, for whatever industryyou come from.
Alright, so next topic is AIand ethical challenges in the
game art industry.
Ai and ethical challenges inthe game art industry.
(15:47):
So how are studios balancing AItools with traditional concept
art workflows?
So I know last episode youmentioned kind of like how AI is
being combined or overlaid withthe art process in your field.
Would you like to elaborate onthat?
Ray (16:01):
Yeah, nowadays, some of the companies are starting to use
the AI technique to apply ontheir current game IP.
I think one of the exampleswould be Activision's Call of
Duty.
They start to apply the AItools on their game right now.
So some of the users areexperiencing kind of uncanny
(16:24):
valley of feeling while theyplaying for the game.
I think it was their likeloading screen before they start
the games.
So I think that's the way thecompany is starting to adjust
the new tool, or some of thecompany are actually stating
that we are not going to use theai tools at all and that we
will fully respect the artistswho are dedicated to make their
(16:47):
own ideas other than actuallyusing ai tools to bring some of
the conflict between the artistsand the game company, so it's a
method.
J.R. (16:57):
Well, you're saying that some studios just have a
disclaimer that, okay, we're notgoing to leverage AI tools and
that's to appease the market orthe client, the users, of their
concerns with using AI.
Oh, okay, interesting.
I didn't know that there waspushback in that sense and the
company's like okay well, fine,we'll ease off on that and let
you guys know we respect theartists.
(17:18):
So then how?
Next question is how canartists, what can artists, do to
protect their work from aiscraping and unauthorized use?
Ray (17:27):
I think that's a big thing for ai, since it's gone into art
, sure I think there is like adifferent way to prevent your
work get consumed by the a likeopen ai resources.
I think the first one is youalways check your social media
platform where you upload yourwork and there's always a
privacy setting that you have toturn off to your kind of
(17:52):
consent to sending your artworkor data to the company's
database to use it in adifferent way.
They don't really mention theywill use an AI tool, I think
Meta.
They mention on their privacysetting tools to say this will
be consumed to the AI.
We have to turn it off.
(18:13):
But what I know is so far onlythe states are not having any
option for turn it off on theMeta, which is like Instagram or
their Facebook, so which that'skind of has the little bit gone
to the vital, like last year.
So right now people are moresettled, so some people aren't
(18:34):
actually not using instagramanymore to promote their art or
some people are still like justuploading it, even if they
realize the ai will consumetheir artwork in in the end.
And then the last part.
There's one university in thestates.
They developed the one of theprogram only for the artists to
(18:56):
prevent their work to get stolenby the ai tool, which is called
the glaze, like a glaze donutyeah yeah, so actually actually
they digitally glaze on yourartwork to prevent AI tools to
recognizing it, scraping it.
But that is not on the top levelyet.
They're still developing itfrom university.
(19:18):
So when you kind of glaze yourartwork it becomes a little bit
less high-resoluted like artworkI see.
J.R. (19:29):
So there's like a drop back to that too.
So then, what are industryprofessionals as concerns about
ai in concept art and how is theindustry responding?
So I know you kind of justmentioned the, the pushback and
the tools that could helpprevent the use of that and what
you can do as an artist.
Either you don't upload or youupload certain places.
But yeah, what are the concernsand how is the industry
(19:49):
responding?
Ray (19:50):
I think right now it's kind of mixed response compared to
the beginning.
Beginning was more like peopleare feeling very like, against
about the AI tools.
Right now, some of the majorcompanies, like, as I mentioned,
like Activision they'restarting looking for people who
are like, have ability to handlethe AI tools to make the work.
(20:16):
So I think that people are justlike okay I think we can just
like move on to using the toolsto develop our work more, faster
and a better quality, andthere's other half of people
were saying that is stilldisrespectful about, like how we
form this community, and thenif we wanted longevity of this
(20:40):
community, then we should keepthe artist, the respectful
aspect, other than we justcontinue to receiving what's
going on in the around the worldabout the new technology I see
it's almost like those sci-fibooks or movies where it's like
the purists versus theprogressives right, we should
use technology and steampunk togo into the future.
J.R. (21:02):
And so we were like, oh no , the the past and we need to
preserve the integrity of that.
It's very interesting, okay.
So last question on this topicis how should aspiring concept
artists adapt to ai withoutlosing their artistic integrity?
Ray (21:15):
I think this is what I also heard it from my professional
friends outside of the it's notoutside of it, actually like
people who are currently workingin the industry.
They're saying that if you wantto maintain your artist aspect,
you have to gain your designknowledge and then design skill
(21:37):
so you can actually use the aitool to let them paint your
design work, which will be asketch.
Other than that, it's kind ofbecoming challenging for you to
overcome having a betterpainting than the ai, because
once you're not enhancing yourfundamental art skill that I
(21:57):
mentioned on the previous likeepisode, you'll get loosed by
the ai or you'll be eaten by theai, so you can't make a better
work than the ai.
So I think that's the mainaspect.
We should keep it in mind.
So stay strong and then keeppracticing on your fundamental
art and then enhance your designability so the company will
(22:20):
notice the value in the futureor even sooner.
Okay.
J.R. (22:28):
And that makes a lot of sense.
Still practice your fundamentalart skill, but learn how to use
the tools and leverage it justto develop your skill sets and
whatnot Right, all right.
So topic number three, if wewant to move forward and
leverage it just to develop yourskill sets and whatnot, all
right.
So topic number three, if wewant to move forward, is the
mental and professional mindsetof success.
So how can concept artists staymotivated when facing long job
(22:49):
searches, especially in today'stough market?
So again, we're talking abouthow the market is really tough,
and that's across a lot ofindustries and, as someone who's
familiar with the job searchbeing international and then
looking for work, here and nowyou're going to be going back to
South Crete to look for work.
What are some of your thoughtsor insights on that?
Ray (23:12):
I think so far what I experienced.
I'll say there's two mainthings that I should keep in
mind.
First, just do it Just like thequote that we know everyone
knows yeah, nike, yes, Nike.
Just do it just like the quotethat we know everyone knows yeah
, nike, yes, nike.
And then, because, yes, we needa lot of like strategies or the
plans to figure out how tosurvive as international, like
artists in the states, but atthe same time, if we are
(23:33):
obsessed with the plan or thestrategy that I build it up
already, then if anythinghappened out of control things
are happen then you will losethe motivation, which is becomes
very toxic part to the artist,because art is like the language
, very intangible aspect.
(23:53):
If you're not keep using it, youwill lose the ability.
So, trying to separate yourselfabout the reality and then like
doing the art by yourself, sotrying to enjoy the art in
general.
I think that's the main aspect.
I think the second part isalways keep it in mind about the
(24:16):
negative aspect too.
Always keep it in mind aboutthe negative aspect too, because
I know everyone's are notreally wanted to think about the
negative aspect, but if you arekind of think about the
negative aspect not too deeply.
Then you will also have abetter idea about how to like
solving the problem, like how Idid it right now or how I'm
(24:37):
actually doing it right now,going back to like my home
country and then looking for thegame industry like market over
there.
J.R. (24:44):
So that will helps you to keep stay on your main like
motivation when you say thenegative aspect, are you
referring to the feelings ofcoming like hitting a wall and
not really getting the results,or what?
Ray (24:59):
yeah, I think, the frustration from not getting any
result from the job market andthen plus with doubting about
your skill, because you knowwhen you're not getting the job
market result, then you willstart to doubting yourself that.
Am I not like enough for thisindustry or am I not doing
something like better thanbefore?
(25:22):
So trying to like, not thinkingabout those negative aspects,
but trying to look at out theactual like, the facts.
Like if you are have multiplechance to do the interview in
the job market but you stilldidn't get any result, that
means your portfolio is is onthe green, like like it's not
(25:44):
like red flag or anything.
You have to understand that it'sjust like maybe I'm lack of the
experience compared to theother candidates because, as I
mentioned it earlier, all theposition in the states are like
senior or at least likemid-level.
So the for the junior artiststhey're agreeing that your
(26:04):
portfolio, if you get theinterview, they're saying well,
your portfolio, are close tothat level, but your experience
or maybe your interview likeresult was not great enough to
get to your final like sectionyeah, makes sense.
J.R. (26:20):
So how do artists avoid burnout when balancing job
applications, portfolio work andpersonal projects?
So, again, like, balance isvery important and if you're
hitting the ground running anddoing all these multiple things,
obviously balance is a bigissue, right?
Yeah?
Ray (26:34):
I think there's three ways to prevent that burnout while
you're preparing the portfolioand everything I'll say.
First, make the timetable foryour portfolio, just like how we
went to the college and thenhave to every time have a time
schedule for each semester.
If you have that on track, thenyou will have a better idea of
(26:59):
like where am I at?
Right now and what should I doto finish this project other
than you?
Just, okay, let's just startmaking a character just do it.
Yeah, yeah I think that doesn'treally help.
You need some of like actualplan, solid plan, and the second
part is trying to have likeyour own like mentor, not just
(27:21):
like you working on your art byyourself.
You need to talk with theactual, like professional people
out there to tracking yourself.
Am I like still on the track onthis like industry's like trend
, or is it my portfolio qualityare getting better?
Because eventually, being anartist is that we could, most of
(27:43):
the time we could like kind ofobsess with our art, so we were
losing the aspect about is myart looking good on the like
commercial art field?
Because this is not like actual, like contemporary art, because
that's actually way differentfield.
But we always have to satisfythe client and the game company.
(28:06):
So that's why that's theimportance of having the mentor
out there.
And the last part will betrying to give yourself to do
the art that you like to do itmost, which is following your
desire.
For example, for me, I love todo the a lot of like landscape
painting without like actuallydesigning my like landscape.
(28:30):
I like to do the painting justlike observing, painting
literally or drawing the peopleout there while I'm like sitting
on the coffee shop.
So those kind of like doodlingphase is very important for you
to not getting burned out andalso losing the motivation I
like that a lot.
J.R. (28:50):
Those three points are pretty insightful.
Actually, I don't want to readit because I think that was
really good.
Just go back and listen to that.
How do personal projects helpconcept artists stay competitive
and relevant?
I think this is a greatquestion because that's one of
those the issues of you need jobexperience to get this
entry-level job catch-22 thingwhich is okay, how do I get this
(29:13):
job?
I have no experience, but Ineed this job to get the
experience.
And now it's like a loop right,and so the question is like how
do personal projects help you tostay competitive so that you're
doing something, but what areyour thoughts on that?
Could you?
Ray (29:25):
elaborate the question one more time.
Yeah.
J.R. (29:26):
So how do personal projects help concept artists
stay competitive and relevant?
Ray (29:32):
I think there's like two different ways.
I think the first is buildingyour portfolio.
It's still counting as apersonal project because what I
understand so far, what Ilearned from the industry people
, is that eventually for thejunior concept artists, like
your portfolio is equal to thepersonal project, but if you
(29:55):
have experience and you have ndawork, that's what we call the
professional work.
That's how I realized recognizethe difference.
So I think, stay on like track.
Personal project will be alwaystrying to see the trends of the
game industry out there.
For example, game is like gameindustry like trends, is like a
fashion like trends.
(30:16):
Yeah, it's a stay up to date.
Yeah, it's keep cycle.
So right now, this is like themoment where most of like
popular games have a lot ofmedieval like era of the game
style.
Or they have a lot of like morethan future style, which is
like a lot of shooting gamesthat are more a little bity like
(30:36):
outfits and a lot of techygraphics are out there.
Or the other part is they use alot of popular animation IP to
bring it to their game, forexample, blizzard
Entertainment's Overwatch game.
They're creating a lot of game,the character's skin design
based on bringing ip fromjapan's popular animation, so
(31:00):
that kind of helps you tounderstand what's the trends out
there and then you actuallyapply to that your personal
project.
For example, you can actuallyremake, redesign some of like
already existing ip but, at thesame time, you have to be very
careful to not get obsessed withthe original IP design style.
So, I would highly recommend tostart with your actual personal
(31:25):
IP, other than just followingthe trends what actually game
companies are doing out there.
And then the last part will beyou need to be setting up the
portfolio's layout.
What I mean by layout is theorder of how you're trying to
(31:46):
show your portfolio to therecruiters or the game company
in general.
For example, for me, since I'man environment concept artist,
on my website I try to show alot of design ability about the
environment concept artist.
On my website I tried to show alot of like design ability
about the environment conceptartists they require in the game
industry.
So I 80, I put a lot ofenvironment concept artwork in a
(32:08):
front low of my portfolio andthen, when it goes scrolling and
down, I show the character andthe props, which is still
relevant to the environmentbecause it still has character
and props inside.
So that's how I build up myportfolio, based on how people
are observing my work, to theytrying to hire me or not I see,
(32:31):
yeah, all right, as some, as anon-artist who does not have a
portfolio, how do you approachbuilding one?
J.R. (32:39):
Because you say adding to portfolio, constantly building
it?
Like, how do you know or decidewhat to draw, what to design,
what to build in that order?
And I know you mentionedfollowing those trends, being up
to date with what's relevantand then potentially developing
your own style, but also takingother existing IPs and maybe
making your own, but also takingother existing IPs and maybe
making your own, making aspinoff, depending on what
(33:01):
trends are there.
But how do you decide what goesinto that portfolio?
If that question makes sense.
Ray (33:07):
Yeah, I mean there is a different way to decide how
you're going to build yourportfolio in the end.
For example, it's kind ofrelevant to the previous episode
how I mentioned about thestylization about the portfolio
and everything, so that alsoincluded.
After you actually decide yourart stylization, for me I will.
(33:30):
My work is heavily depends onlike henley digital painting
style, so I have to keep it ontrack about building my
portfolio to being like handilypainted and then plus with is
that this will be going to bevery cute and plus, since I'm an
environment concept artist andmy know how to paint a different
(33:52):
day of the time and differentweather, so that kind of like
shows on my portfolio.
J.R. (33:58):
Those aspects.
Yeah, the aspect you can dodifferent sides to that.
Ray (34:01):
And then when it comes to the, since it's like technical
art, you have to show your likeunderstanding of the
functionality of the design.
Are you actually just creatingthe art or are you actually
creating the art and design atthe same time?
Just like how I design myvehicle design on my website,
Like is it this actually will bework in the real life?
So those things are important,but when we purely just going
(34:27):
back to the question to answerit, I'll say you really need the
mentor.
Of course, there is a lot ofresources out there, you see
there from Instagram or Facebookor even different education
online platforms out there, butthe one thing is that they are
(34:48):
great artists.
However, in any field, even ifyou're good at executing your
work, they are not good ateducating a lot of people how
they want it to do.
So some people will have astruggle to understand their
information.
If you purchase the package ofonline classes, Like a video
(35:11):
course exactly.
So you need like in-personmentor in your life to keep in
track and also getting a fulladvice.
I'm not saying like you shouldnot like looking out the online
classes out there.
J.R. (35:24):
Yeah, you will have opportunity like a lot of good
resources out there, butmentorship is very valuable and
it's very pointed or veryspecific that can like.
Ray (35:34):
Accelerate your growth and guidance it's more like they can
help you to diagnose about yourcurrent status.
It's like a coach, right?
J.R. (35:41):
they can see like your blind spots and figure out where
you need to grow, better thanjust a blanket video course that
just gives you general a to zright.
Right, I like that.
And yeah, thanks all forpulling up ray's portfolio.
Those are really good imageimages and illustrations.
Highly recommend everyone checkout ray's portfolio.
His work is gorgeous.
As a non-artist myself, and Ican appreciate good looking art
(36:04):
as a newbie yes, his work isreally good.
Thank you, okay.
So next question is how canjunior artists deal with
imposter syndrome and buildconfidence in their work?
Ray (36:16):
I think it's kind of like same thing how I answered your
previous question, but I willsay separate yourself about
getting evaluated by theprofessional extender and trying
to keep yourself and then thinkabout the reason why you start
this like path for your actualprofessional career.
(36:41):
Because this is also kind ofsame as how you like being an
adult, because once you've grownit up and getting out from all
the education, militaryeducation system, you'll have a
lot of interaction withdifferent types of people that
you haven't meet in your liferight, and then you might have
the time or the experience ofgetting hurted by what people
(37:02):
other people are saying it toyou or you'll have the struggle
because of you couldn'trecognize your like the bad part
or the not a great habit tointeract with the people.
It's the same thing as in theart too.
So trying to keep yourself thatonce people are like commenting
about something about your artmeans they are not looking
(37:24):
forward to just like doubtingabout your work.
Actually they are the peoplewho are trying to help you,
unless they're really saying ina disrespectful way.
So trying to being open-mindedabout getting a critics from
outside and the separateyourself that this is just
(37:45):
credit to help my work to getbetter and then consume that
advice and trying to organizeyour thoughts before you
actually doing your art.
So this will help you toenhance your skills and also not
getting too much stress fromlike when you're getting the
advice or the critics out thereso being good with taking
(38:08):
feedback and critiques andwhatnot and then improving and
focusing on that.
J.R. (38:11):
Yeah, not necessarily imposter syndrome like how bad I
am or I don't.
I'm not meant to be here, butjust focus on improving your
work.
Next one, or I guess the lastone in the section, is what
advice from senior artists hashelped junior concept artists
the most in their career growthsenior concept artists, since
they already went through thethe junior level experience and
everything, so they will.
Ray (38:35):
If you have chance to talk with the senior concept artists,
they will give their insightabout their experience, which is
literally a shortcut.
So, trying to create theopportunity, even like in person
or online, like linkedin, likeprofessional, like recruiting,
like platform, trying to reachout them, even if it's
embarrassing and it's prettylike pressure, and trying to get
(39:00):
different types of the opinionfrom the different, like senior
concept artists, for example,once you get that big data and
then you will find out thecommon advice they are giving it
.
So trying to extract thatcommon advice and then apply to
your work, like habit or theworkflow, or even your like art
style, everything then it willhelp you to understand how to
(39:25):
get to that like professionallevel.
J.R. (39:27):
Okay, so getting a lot of advice from a lot of different
perspectives and kind of findingthose common denominators or
threads that connect everythingand that helps you grow the most
, basically.
So basically, it's like amindset of just consistent
adaptation, learning and alwaysseeking feedback and advice, and
I think that makes sense for alot of different career fields,
(39:50):
right, yeah, I think that's itfor, like the plan questions.
But I think it reminds me I washaving a conversation with a
friend recently and they're UCLAstudent and I think most, like
students, have this same sort ofconception.
I think we were talking aboutthis.
It's tough when you're in acompetitive environment, let's
say from a very competitiveschool or environment where
(40:10):
everyone's doing all theseamazing things and their
portfolio is amazing and they'reworking with all these
companies, and it's easy tocompare yourself and, like you
said, get into those negativemindsets of feeling like you're
an imposter, feeling like you'rebehind and feeling like you are
not going to make it in thistough economy and job market.
And I think what I saideventually is that I think
(40:34):
people are aware that comparingdoesn't help you.
I think focusing on yourimprovement and growth, what
you've been saying is veryimportant, but I think the
second thing that I was thatcame to mind was I feel like,
aside from preventing yourselffrom feeling doom and gloom, the
time horizons for you to besuccessful is a lot bigger than
people think, because they feellike I have to figure out my
(40:57):
stuff within the next two years,within my undergraduate even
recent, like in my first twoyears of graduating and if I
don't do that, then it's the endof the world.
Right, but as adults, peoplewho have been in the workforce
for a lot longer, you have moretime than you think to be
successful.
And not only that, but I think,if you, the big question and I
(41:23):
know I'm tangent rambling, butthe big question is how do I
find the job security andstability in any industry?
And that's the question that alot of those students or like
early in your career people willask.
It's like how do I have jobstability, because I do not want
to get into this market andworry about having a job and
getting fired and all this otherstuff.
And my thought is that how doyou get job?
Security is be really, really,really good at what you do, be
that people will want to hireyou.
(41:43):
That there are no openpositions at Google, let's say,
but the Google manager, hiringmanagers will hire you, you
anyways, because you're, youhave a great reputation and
you've done a lot of good stuffand you're the best in the
industry, right?
So the next question is how doyou become very good?
at what you do right?
Ray (41:58):
that's really a insightful question for any industry out
there because, as we know, moretime pass the world trying to
change really fast and a lot ofstands are becoming very high
quality and then looking for thefast result in any field.
So at that point there is likepro and cons.
(42:19):
Pro is you can have a lot offreedom to do anything and the
cons is like you will get a lotof pressure and then you will
feel a lot of stress how youexplain feel behind from the
college year to like after yougraduated.
So to try to realisticallyfigure out that aspect, I'll say
(42:41):
taking the advantage of how theworld is changing, which is
using the technology of likedifferent like social media
platform to self-promoteyourself like, for example, like
as the concept artists a lot ofartists are low-key, mandatory
to self-promote their self inany different like art platform.
(43:03):
Yeah, so they're exhibiting,literally they're doing the art
show by themselves on online toshowcasing that.
Do this amount of work a to z.
So if you are gettinginterested, hit me up and then I
will try my best to likerespond and if we have a great
opportunity, I will like alwaysopen to work together.
(43:25):
So you show that constancyabout like self-promoting
yourself other than you obsessabout the amount of the likes
and amount exposed that you willget on the social media
platform.
That you might think that I'mgetting popular or not, that's
not important because, aseveryone know, once the
(43:47):
algorithm like kind of picks youup, yeah you will get vital.
But I think that's not theimportant part if you're not
good at your.
J.R. (43:53):
If your work isn't good, yeah, what's the point?
and if you're not promoting, orif you're not going out there
and putting out your work, it'snot going to go anywhere, yeah,
yeah I like that a lot and also,too, I think there's a step
back from that is self-awarenessof what you meant to what
you're meant to be doing.
So, in your case, or in otherpeople's cases, they know what
they want to do and they havethe self-awareness, like
yourself, of okay, concept art,environmental concept artists
(44:16):
you know, work in the video gameindustry.
Some people don't really knowwhat they want to do, right, and
they might be pressured orinfluenced into three different
industries.
They're not really sure.
But I think the point being isthat if you have that
self-awareness and you know thatyou really want to do a certain
thing because, one, you'rewired to do it naturally,
because your brain works thatway, and, two, you really enjoy
(44:36):
it, so that you get somethingfrom it that allows you to be
really good at it.
Ray (44:40):
I think the first, if you already have your self-awareness
about what you like to do, youalready figure out the big part,
because a lot of people, as youmentioned, are still figuring
out to find out what they love,because these days, working at
the company in the traditionalstyle will not help you to
survive.
J.R. (44:59):
Yeah, like economical wise you're not going to be.
You're not going to be indemand or the best and have job
security.
If you hate what you're doing,but you're in an industry that's
quote-unquote stable.
I hear that so many times.
It's oh, I want to go into thisindustry.
Why?
Because it's stable, I'm like.
But you don't love it andyou're not good at it, so why
would you ever be great at itand why would they ever keep you
on the payroll?
Ray (45:19):
exactly yeah.
So I think that's why recently,what I've been researching
about the job market in general,like when I was trying to plan
to going back to korea.
I heard the term about thedigital nomad.
It's you don't have really aphysical place to work, but
you're working anywhere whileyou're traveling, like in a
(45:40):
different city.
So your work, for example, likeas a korean, I'd go, I work at
like fill in, for example, ineurope, but I get the job in the
fill-in to work remotely, butthey still don't require you to
submit your visa to stay therelonger.
You're like staying there likea couple months and but you're
(46:01):
getting the experience and thenyou still get like constant
income by register yourself inthe like, a bigger global like
platform that will assist theadditional nomad people to work
in any like country, so whichthat becomes like your personal
business, because people willget scared about like when, say,
I want to start the businessmeans like we need a lot of
(46:23):
money and then we need enoughexperience to and then learn
about the industry and then runthe business.
That will help to likesuccessfully run the business.
Otherwise it will waste themoney or the time.
But I think nowadays that's nothow it was used to be.
It's it's very different.
(46:43):
You can open your business onyour instagram, for example, you
can make a sticker like cutecharacter for.
You can make a sticker likecute character for me.
I can make a cute character,yeah, and then upload it on the
global platform, so people willpurchase it and I can send the
sticker around the world.
J.R. (46:58):
Yeah, open up an Etsy shop right now.
Yeah, I like it.
Okay, right, I think we'reshort on time, but this was such
a fruitful conversation.
I'm glad we were able to dopart two, and I'm sure you know
eventually, if it's in the cards, maybe a part three if it works
out and when you come back, orsomething like that.
So let's wrap this up.
So we end, as usual, withgratitude.
(47:19):
So, ray, I know we did thisrecently, but what are you
grateful for?
Ray (47:23):
I think I'm grateful for, of course, for like podcast
opportunity to getting know youwhile I'm like staying in the
states, and then I could sharethis ideas to the people who are
in the same page or people whowill going to have a same page
with me, so they will have lesslike stress, like moment.
J.R. (47:43):
Yeah, so I think that's the great full part for me
nowadays yes, yeah, I appreciateand I'm sure the audience is
too sharing your insights, yourhard-earned insights, with the
rest of us so we can take a peekand maybe learn something from
that um, okay final ask from theaudience or any takeaways you
want them to have from the showbesides, hire me in south korea.
Ray (48:03):
But other than that, other than that, I think, thanks for
um spending time to listen myepisodes, which is like.
This is part two already andlisten to part one.
J.R. (48:16):
That's my, that's my ask.
Ray (48:17):
It's a great episode, thank you yeah and then it is really
honored to share my experienceout there, even if there's not a
lot of people are listening atthe moment, but still still
thanks for listening.
J.R. (48:30):
Yeah, of course, all right .
Last thing I know it's going tobe linked and it's in the first
episode, but, ray, if peoplewant to check out what you're up
to or connect or anything likethat, where can they find you?
Ray (48:41):
You can find me on the Instagram right below here.
There you go, ray Lee R, onInstagram, and then you will see
all the hyperlinks that relateto my professional work.
J.R. (48:53):
Nice and it'll have his face like that Right on there.
Yes, cool.
Well, all right, ray, thank youso much again for being here.
I appreciate it.
It was a lot of fun and it wasa very fruitful conversation.
And thank you for thebrainstorm questions.
Oh, no worries, again, shoutout to Ray, shout out to Ray.
He helped brainstorm a lot ofthese questions and I think
they're very pointed andinsightful.
So for my final sign-off, thankyou guys again for tuning in.
(49:13):
As always, reminder to be kindto other people, especially
yourself, and remember that youcan always learn something from
someone, even multiple times, ifyou just take the time to
listen.
So thanks for tuning in, thanksso much.
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