#41: Eric Y. Chen - Learning Sales & Marketing, Launching Sabobatage, and Growing Businesses from A to Z - One Thousand Gurus Podcast

Episode Transcript
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J.R. (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of 1000 Gurus
with me, your host, jr Yonacruz.
Today's guest is Eric Y Chen.
Eric is a serial entrepreneurspecializing in product launch
marketing services.
He's well known for his viralcard game Subobataj the Boba
card game having sold over100,000 units in just a few
short years, and it is availablein retailers like Target,

(00:22):
barnes, noble and Amazon.
He manages multiple clientsthrough his marketing agency
Launch Brand Grow, responsiblefor seven-figure brands running
Facebook ads, web design andlead gen.
In 2024, with the growth of hisown brands and clients, he's
building up a 3PL fulfillmentcenter to help companies with
shipping products to their endcustomers.
This allows clients to comefull circle, providing a near A

(00:44):
to Z solution when running ane-commerce business.
I really enjoyed this episodefor a couple of reasons, the
first being that Eric is now theguest I've known the longest,
since way back in high school,so it was definitely a blast
from the past catching up withhim after all these years about
17 or 18 years to be exact andthe second is that he's covered
three industries that none of myother guests have talked about

(01:04):
before, which are sales andmarketing, product development,
a tabletop card game and 3PLshipping industry third-party
logistics.
Eric is one of the mostquote-unquote decorated guests
I've had on the show in terms ofhaving a vast experience in
entrepreneurship, and I learnedso much from just a short hour
that we had.
So, without further ado, I hopeyou enjoy this episode with

(01:27):
Eric Y Chen.
Hello everyone and welcome backto 1000 Gurus.
Please welcome my guest, eric YChen.
How's it going?
Good?
Good, thanks for being here.
You are the first Eric Chen onmy show, and so we were talking
about this before the recordingstarted, but there are a lot of
Eric Chen's in the world,apparently, and so I know one of
them.
I know the best one.
I'm a little biased, but yeah,so I don't know if you wanted to

(01:50):
recount anything that we weresaying, but your goal in life is
to be the number one, eric.

Eric (01:55):
The secret well, not secret anymore, but the goal is
to be the number one searchresult on Google for Eric Chen,
if you type in my name, but Iknow I think over 10 Eric Chens
already, just personally.

J.R. (02:08):
Just personally.
Yeah, so there's too many of us.
Do you know where you are inthe ranking?
Oh, I think probably likesecond page or something.

Eric (02:15):
I don't think I even show up on the first page, really.

J.R. (02:17):
Hey, second page is pretty good.
I feel, like or like such acommon name.
We'll have to double checkbecause obviously, if you've
searched it before you'll, I'llshow up on the first page for
myself.
But yeah, in terms of a normal,like anonymous person, yeah,
interesting but cool, yeah.
So, anyways, thanks for beinghere, we'll get straight into it
.
Yeah, I let's see.
We haven't, I don't know.

(02:38):
The last time we talked highschool, so what?
This is like 16, 17 years,something like that again
getting close to 20 years.
Yeah, getting close to 20 years.
We were just talking about our10 year anniversary.
So eric is actually a year aheadof me, so he's a year older
class of 2008, I believe yeah sowe have a lot of mutuals and
we've definitely seen each otherin high school, but not like

(03:00):
necessarily the same circles.
But we're connected on facebookand I've seen what you've been
up to the last 16, 17 years andit's been pretty cool, and so
you were on my list of veryinteresting people that I know
through my own networks, so I'mpersonally grateful to have you
on the show.
Thank you for making the time,thank you for having me, yeah,
and so let me just recap what Iwrote down in my research.
When you're researching for apodcast, it's research, but if

(03:23):
you aren't doing it forsomething, it's just stalking.
So I think this is justresearch.
So we both went to IrvingtonHigh School in Fremont,
california.
Shout out to all the Fremontpeople out there You're a class
ahead of me.
You went to UC Davis, majored ininternational relations, econ
focus, minor in communication.
I'm just testing my researchskills now.
And then, after going throughyour socials and LinkedIn, I

(03:46):
learned that.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
For any of these things youworked in business development
and sales and some training.
Digital marketing at Google.
Co-founder of Startpad, whichis like a product incubator sort
of place.
Advisor to Asian Hustle Network.
I think some of us know whatthat is Writer at Need, that
it's a media company focused onconsumer products.
You hosted your own podcast,the Y Factor podcast, for a

(04:06):
couple of years, so you're nostranger to being on podcasts.
You have extensive experiencesharing knowledge, as you've
done.
A dozen or so speakingengagements I've seen, and the
biggest things you're up to nowis being the CEO of Launch Brand
Grow and CEO of Moco Shippingand the creator of the tabletop
card game Subobitage.
Did I miss anything or anythingelse that you want to throw in
there?

Eric (04:27):
I mean that pretty much sums it up.
So pretty well researched.

J.R. (04:30):
Nice, cool.
So what else have you been upto?
I know we caught up outside,but like what else has been,
eric Weichen went up to I meanon a personal side, it's mostly
just adulting very hard.

Eric (04:41):
My then fiance and I bought a house together down
here in SoCal, Thank you.
And then we got.
We had our first marriage lastyear on paper, and then our Asia
wedding in Vietnam back inApril.
So we were there for about amonth doing a whole Asia type
wedding and then we have ourWestern wedding coming up.
So that's just the more on thepersonal side.
It's all just life really.

J.R. (05:02):
Nice.
That's exciting.

Eric (05:02):
So so dang two weddings and the official on paper is
your wife from vietnam or, yeah,her family's still in vietnam,
so that's why we wanted to havea wedding out there and
celebrate with them that's adope sleep where.

J.R. (05:15):
Where's your western wedding gonna?

Eric (05:16):
happen down here, right here in socal, yeah, so just
keep it more local.
Yeah, and I know you and I wegrew up in norcal, but most of
my family's actually moved downto socal too, so the transition
was pretty easy oh yeah, thatmakes sense.

J.R. (05:28):
I actually last weekend or the weekend before I just came
back from norcal for my freshmanroommate's wedding it was an
indian wedding, my first one,super exciting bought the outfit
and, yeah, I was justreconnecting with friends from
college.
But also I got to see my family, because when I go to we we
talked about this when I go toNorCal, it's mostly just family,
but it's nice to reconnect withpeople from way back.

(05:49):
I don't know if you had thisexperience.
We talked about our 10 yearreunion, but did anyone comment
on how you've either changed orare the same from high school?

Eric (05:59):
Not so much, I think it.
Yeah, like you were sayingearlier, when we were catching
up is everyone kind of justseems the same, right, and even
to now I still feel like a kid.
We're just now experiencingbodily pains knee pain, have
gout right so it's like I stillwatch anime, Like I still like
trying to play video games if Ihave free time.
Compared to our parents, whenthey were raising us, they

(06:21):
didn't have that luxury, right.

J.R. (06:22):
So you still feel like a kid, but you're just now a
number in your age, just older,but still, yeah, I feel that,
like the mindset it's I'm thesame person.
You obviously have moreexperience and you have more
responsibilities.
But yeah, I feel like I couldbe the same person as I was in
high school, because I'm doing alot of the same stuff, exactly.
That's pretty dope.
Okay, if nothing else, maybe wecan start off with our first

(06:44):
topic as usual origin story,biggest influences, life
trajectories.
We already know where you grewup.
Questions are where did yougrow up and what were the main
influences that inform who youare today?

Eric (06:55):
Yeah, I think the brief origin story was mostly just
being raised in NorCal.
My dad was working in thesemiconductor industry and so
just growing up, I alwayswatched him talk about business,
but I didn't really know whatbusiness meant.
So when we would tag along tobusiness trips or go to Asia and
tag along, what I thought wasbusiness was just having dinner

(07:17):
with other businessmen in suitsand then shake hands and laugh,
and then that's it.
And so I was like oh, I want tobe a businessman when I grow up
.
And then that was it.
So once you go to college,you're like so what do you want
to do?
I was like I want to runbusiness, but my idea of
business is totally differentthan what business actually is.
And so once I graduateduniversity, the whole idea was

(07:39):
oh, what can you actually do inbusiness besides sales?
So that's actually how I gotinto sales, because I'm not I'm
not studying anything with anyhigh vocation where it's oh,
yeah, I'm starting studying tobe an engineer or a doctor.
It's just, yeah, just verybroad degree, right.
So what better than to just gointo sales?
So that's how I got started inmy career path.

J.R. (07:59):
Okay, so in high school I don't know if you were thinking
about.
Were you thinking about justbusiness when you're going to
university?

Eric (08:07):
Yeah, I think it was just like business since, like I was
five years old, that's the onlyexposure I had.
It's not like my parentsencouraged me to be a doctor or
anything.
I think my mom actually wantedme to be like a flight attendant
.
If she was like oh, if youcan't be a pilot, then at least
be a flight attendant.
Because I think back in ourparents' age they really
glorified pilots, flightattendants.

(08:29):
So there's like oh, it's socool, you get to travel and
stuff.
But obviously I was like Idon't want to be a flight
attendant, so business was thenext thing.

J.R. (08:36):
I see.
What about sales and business?
Do you think draws you to it,based on, maybe, your
characteristics?

Eric (08:48):
personality or things like that.
I think I mean you and I wentto the same high school so you
probably remember me beingpretty social and I was a
captain of the track team andstuff.
So it was like partially, youknow leadership and taking
initiative.
So I think a lot of thatbackground still flows through
with me as I grew up and thenjust putting that into effect.
But once you're in sales,you'll fast or soon realize that
business is not necessarilywhether you talk a lot or talk

(09:10):
well.
It's about listening and justasking the right questions in
order to close business andstuff.
So that's, that was a bigturning point when I did jump
into my sales career.
It's like, no, you shouldn't betalking that much.
You should just be asking theright questions in order to have
the prospect or the person thatyou're trying to win over talk
more than you.

J.R. (09:28):
I like that because sometimes the conception of a
salesperson is that talk personwhere they just talk a lot.
They're just constantly talkingor a good talker, and that's it.
Right, exactly.
But you're saying listening isjust as, if not more, important,
because you get to from whatI've read in sales books you get
to identify what the personactually wants and meet where it
makes sense for both of you,and that ability is more

(09:49):
valuable than just the abilityto talk out your ass.
Right, exactly.
So then you graduated withinternational relations and
communications, so how did yougo into sales at that point?
I know, based on your careerresume, it seems like you were
along that path for a long time.
How did you jump into sales atthat point?

Eric (10:06):
Yeah, jumping into a sales career was actually pretty
difficult.
I couldn't really land a jobafter college.
I think it took me maybe fouror five months to land a job,
and then it wasn't even a job,it was an internship.
But luckily the company Iworked for was ADP not the
security company but the payrollcompany.
It's always confused, but thepayroll company actually has one

(10:29):
of the top sales trainingprograms in the nation and so
what happens is, if you go andwork at ADP, a lot of other
companies will start recruitingyou or reaching out to you to
join their sales team becausethey didn't want to pay for
training.
But you already gone throughadp's training.
But, yeah, me going through theinternship I think it was like a

(10:50):
six week internship.
I ended up being I wasn't liketop intern, but they had a
competition for all the internsacross the entire nation and I
won the, the challenge of likehow many like leads you can get
in a like a couple hours or onthat one day.
So it's like a full nationwide,like every intern is competing
and I won and so at least thathelped solidify a job and so,

(11:13):
yeah, they offered me a job.
I think they offered it to mebefore my six weeks was up
because I performed well enoughand then they're like cool, you
can well winning, is I'm sureit's well enough exactly yeah so
then I started the career as anassociate salesperson and then
when you talk about that type ofsales role, we're talking about
knocking on doors.
We're going to small businessesand just hoping to convert

(11:36):
someone to switch payroll, or,if they don't have a system,
then try to get them on payroll.
And then my role specificallyluckily enough I was actually
more partnered with accountingfirms and CPA firms, so a lot of
the door knocking was withaccounting firms and then
building relationships with themand then build it on referrals.

(11:57):
So I did a partial knock ondoors for random businesses.
If it was within my territory,the majority of it was nurturing
relationships with accountantsand CPAs, and so that's really
where I was able to continuebuilding my sales skills while
relationship building too, andthat's where a lot of my sales
background really stems from.

J.R. (12:17):
I see.
So one question I have is howdo you win a competition like
that?
What do you think are theskills or strategies or mindsets
or resources that allow you tobe that good at something like
sales?

Eric (12:32):
I mean, if the goal is to set as many appointments as
possible, right.
So we're trying to do a leadgen competition and I think,
especially if people arestarting off in sales and this
applies to your life in general,just like everything is some
sort of interaction with salesbut most people will get caught
up with the first no, and youjust got to figure out how to

(12:53):
overcome certain objections asto why they're even saying no.
So if you even frame thequestion correctly and not
really give the person a chanceto say no, then you have a
better opportunity to do itright.
When we were doing thatcompetition, it was more about
setting an appointment, not anyhard sell to the prospect, right

(13:15):
.
So it was just more of tryingto convince them.
Hey, they think they're aboutto get caught up on a long
conversation and so they're notgoing to feel like they have
time because you just calledthem out of the blue and so, as
long as you even overcome thatwith them and acknowledge it,
that was like hey, I don't, I'mnot taking, I don't want to take
up too much of your time.
I was calling her to reach outto see what you're using for
payroll and if we can just setup like a quick 15 minute or 10

(13:38):
minute conversation to see howit can help you save money.
I was just talking to thiscould be a white lie, I mean,
it's certain tactics.
Later down the road was like ohyeah, I was just talking to your
neighbor and so you have to usethat carefully.
But that's better for in-person.
If you did talk to the neighborbut it's yeah, your neighbor is
going to sit down and talk withme next week, so I'll be back
next week.

(14:02):
And they're like oh okay, ifyou't want to take up too much
of your time, it's going to bereally quick, just to see if we
save money, if maybe you cansave money within five, 10
minutes.
Let's just set up a time Likehow does Tuesday Thursday next
week?
I'm not asking are youinterested in taking a call?
It's just hey, how does TuesdayThursday next week sound?
And they're like Thursday, cool, how about one or 2 PM, one

(14:29):
o'clock, cool, all right, we'llgive you a call back at 1 PM.

J.R. (14:31):
Boom, that was a an appointment, and then keep going
.
So maybe you're just a geniusat this, but where did you learn
how to have the rightstrategies to be the best in
this competition?
I know there's a lot ofdifferent ways you can learn
this.
Or did you have any mentors?
Or was you just followed thetraining and other people just
didn't as much, or I don't know.

Eric (14:46):
I think, if I think, you just got to realize you can't
really follow a script too much,right?
So, and that's the thing,people will just read through
the script and they're notreally thinking.
And so, even though theyequipped us with a script, you
got to realize what that personis saying, because once they
derail from the yes or no,because those scripts will tell

(15:08):
you if they said yes, thenschedule this, if they said no,
then try to object.
But if the person responds withsomething they don't know how
to respond with, then thatperson freezes up.
Okay, thank you, bye.
And that's it Right, and so youjust have to really spend the
time to understand what you'reactually talking about with the
other person and just listen.

(15:28):
Right, those are just thingsthat I learned from the other
salespeople on the team too,because, yeah, I did get some
mentorship, or they assign you amentor too, and so those are
just things that I pick up alongthe way.
Just don't focus on the scriptonly I see.

J.R. (15:44):
so it's just people relying on this decision tree,
but you were able to see broaderand be more flexible and
adaptable for those things thatgo off script and you feel like
that kind of gave you anadvantage.

Eric (15:55):
Exactly.
I'm like I'm training my salesteam too and they're still, and
it could take a while.
But I think that's where Iidentified myself as oh, I think
I understand sales a little bitmore than other people, because
some people they could be stuckon a script level for six
months.
Like I'm still training mysales team for the shipping
company and one of them is stillon.
He has a script, he's memorizedit and I can tell he's trying

(16:18):
to break out of it when there'scertain questions.
But you can tell he's onlymemorized the answers.
If this, then he'll answer thatRight.
But you can tell he's onlymemorized the answers.
If this, then he'll answer thatright.
But if there's a randomquestion that he can't answer,
at least he realized he can atleast say that's a great
question.
I'll defer that to Eric toanswer that later on if I'm not
on the call with him orsomething right.
So at least he's able to defer,versus freeze up and say, oh, I

(16:40):
don't know, sorry, okay, bye,right.
So at least he's taken thatstep, and then it'll take time,
just because there's a lot ofmoving parts on the shipping
side.

J.R. (16:50):
When we're having those conversations I see.
Okay, last question on this,because I love this topic of
sales and influence and thepeople skills aspect that you
can't really escape from, nomatter what industry you're in.
But do you have any advice onhow to get better at sales or
influence?
You mentioned listening andknowing the script, knowing
what's inside the box and thenlearning how to freestyle
outside of it and think on thefly.

(17:11):
But any other advice or tipsyou have at excelling in this
field?

Eric (17:15):
So there's a lot of sales books, sales training, all that
stuff.
So at Always Hired I helpedbuild a curriculum, the owner of
that business, he had veryaggressive sales tactics and
even the script was veryaggressive.
I take a very soft approach andso I think for a lot of people,
when they do go into sales,they just really have to figure
out which method meshes betterwith their personality.

(17:39):
And so if you're a soft personto trying to be aggressive, it's
just going to come out awkwardand people can feel that Right.
But if you're a soft person totrying to be aggressive, it's
just going to come out awkwardand people can feel that Right.
But if you're soft and you takea more soft approach and people
like, oh yeah, this guy's likenice, and then you adapted that
type of approach, then it'llfeel a lot better too.
Otherwise you're just forcingyourself and then you can feel
that tension and clash.
So yeah, just you got to feelit out and see which methods

(18:02):
work.

J.R. (18:08):
So obviously study and read up on more books to see
what other approaches there aretoo, and practice probably right
in the field and get liveexperience.
Yeah, I like it.
So let's keep going forward now.
So sales ADP eventually youmove into marketing and ads and
things like that and if I'mconnecting the dots, it informs
your later steps.
But could you go through thattrajectory with us?

Eric (18:25):
Yeah, so in a sales organization there's always
going to be outside sales andinside sales people.
For some reason, my job hasalways been on the outreach side
, not inside sales.
So inside sales are people whoget to call warm leads.
So they're getting leads fromthe marketing side of things, or
the inbound leads from thewebsite side of things, or the
inbound leads from the website,and so you have a sales team for

(18:47):
that.
Then you got other people whowere like oh, let me just
research and reach out to people, and for some reason, all my
jobs have always been I got todo the grind versus oh, here's
the lead, here's the lead.
And so I'm like what if I couldbe or switch it where I am
starting to get more on the leadside?
And that's where my interest inmarketing came into play,

(19:08):
because if you're marketingthings well, then people are
coming to you instead of mereaching out and trying to sell
you something.
Right, the marketing side isyou've already done half of the
work to attract someone in.
So that's where that steppingstone came into me wanting to go
more into the marketing side.

J.R. (19:26):
I see, and then so you follow that path down and I
think, if I'm not getting any ofthis wrong, you worked at
Google for a bit and theneventually you start to help
other brands market and growtheir own products and whatnot.
So then how did that pivothappen?

Eric (19:44):
Yeah, so I don't know if you remember, but back in 2016,
I had a crazy car accident, andso that's what kind of helped
put myself in towards atrajectory into wanting to do
more entrepreneurial pursuits.
That car accident, like I wasasleep as a passenger, we

(20:05):
crashed into a tree and then myruptured, my intestines were
ruptured, damn.
So all I did was like just wakeup one morning and already went
through surgery.
It was like tubes out my mouthand stuff and there's like a
very long recovery process, andso I like more internal bleeding
complications.
So that second phase ofrecovery, that's really where I
had time to think about what Iwanted to do, and so that's when

(20:28):
I decided to quit corporate andthen go into figuring out
entrepreneurship.
When I did that, most of what itwas at the time was like how to
sell on Amazon, how to do FBAif people are familiar with that
fulfillment by Amazon work fromthe beach, work remote, live
this cool laptop lifestyle, orlaptop warrior as they call it.

(20:48):
And so around my 20, mid 20s, Iwas like, oh cool, I want to do
that.
And then I did go down thatpath for a couple of months and
I was like, oh, this is not forme.
I'm like I don't think I don'tknow how it's sustainable for
anyone to sit at the beach ontheir laptop every day.
I'm like I'm not even a beachperson, I'm more of a mountain
snow person.
So this is not for me.

(21:09):
And so I came back.
I did end up going throughlaunching my first product on
Amazon, and that exposure justreally opened up a lot of doors
for me.
And then I was able to helpeducate a lot of people on how
to launch their first product,how to sell, and then I had
linked up with my mentor at thetime and then we became business

(21:30):
partners and that's where wedecided oh, now we have
experience in a few differentmodes where we can help create
products for other people.
We had factory connections, wehad the know-how to launch
products, we had the facility toship stuff out for people.
So that's how that whole partgot started, with the product
incubation and product launchingand all of that.

J.R. (21:50):
Interesting.
So it was doing the thingyourself and you're like, hey, I
have, now that I've done it andI've carved the path, I can
help others do the same thingwith their businesses.
So I guess at that point, sorry, what was the product, the
first thing that you built?
I don't mind sharing.

Eric (22:05):
Yeah, yeah, I don't mind sharing, because I think I still
have one box of the originalsamples that I have Because in
the FBA game it's not about likeyou just trying to create a
product.
It's just like you do reverseresearch and see what sells and
then you go try to just sourcethat and sell it on Amazon
yourself too.
I sourced paper targets, solike the paper that you'll bring

(22:27):
to the shooting range and youshoot up those papers.
Oh, I see, yeah, so there'ssomething called fluorescent
splatter kind of thing, so it'sjust like very bright paper with
the silhouette of your targetand then when you shoot the
target, then you can see yourshots a little bit more visibly
and that was like like a hoax,because it was just like bright
paper is on the back side ofthat black silhouette.

(22:49):
So I saw on the marketplace thatwas mostly yellow, and then
someone had a green one.
But I'm like, oh, no one had anorange one.
And I'm like, yeah, orange justcoincides with the hunting and
all that stuff.
So I sourced like very neonorange ones and then that was my
very first product.
It sold okay, until that batchthat I had ordered, I guess like

(23:09):
the ink was flaking at the top.
And so when people got theirproduct they're like, oh, the
ink's flaked off, so this is abad product.
I'm like you can only tell themso much.
Hey man, like you're about toshoot at it and destroy it.
So it's like, what does alittle flaking going to do with
the bottom?
But I was already pissed at thequality.
So I told the factory.
I was like, hey man, likeeither refund my money or I'm

(23:30):
never going to do business withyou again.
And they're like, hmm, nah, wegot our money.
And I'm like, yeah, so I didn'trenew that product.
But yeah, I just sold.
I just dropped the price downand sold the rest of it off.
I think it was like a $10,000investment, maybe like 5,000
units at the very beginning, andthen that was it.
It's just I didn't make anymoney.
I probably lost a little bit ofmoney, but at least I was like

(23:52):
I went through the entire cycleof sourcing and everything, yeah
, so that's why I call it a moreof a learning curve.

J.R. (23:57):
I think that's pretty key to doing anything, or at least
learning is you put skin in thegame, you make an investment and
then, when you learn, you mayor may not get the return you
want, but at least you gain thatexperience for the next thing,
which I feel like you've doneover and over again.
Right, so, then, going forwardto now helping other
entrepreneurs, creators, andbuild their brands and whatnot,

(24:18):
I want to ask what that journeywas like, but I also want to ask
you lessons learned, orchallenges that you face doing
that.
I think there's another elementof you running your own
business, but now you're helpingsomeone else with theirs.
I'm sure there's an interestingdynamic there, but I don't know
if you want to clarify any ofthose.

Eric (24:34):
There's one thing I realized over the course of the
last couple of years where, asmuch as I try to help people or
consult people even people payme money to consult on their
projects I realize time aftertime and I always hope that this
happens where I'm, it sucks,where I will give them the

(24:56):
advice, but they can'tcomprehend the advice.
We'll acknowledge it or they'llunderstand it, but they won't,
they can't put a weight on it oflike how important it is versus
the problem at hand thatthey're trying to achieve or
overcome.
Right, maybe because it's theirfirst product, so there's just
a lot more stressors of I got tofigure out more of the factory,

(25:17):
so they're just focused on that.
But then when I tell them likehey, like once you're done with
the factory stuff, like theseare the next sets of challenges
that are going to happen, andyou got to focus on that.
But then, when the time comes,they've totally forgot or didn't
acknowledge it.
And then now they're runninginto these issues.
So I think it's just likeeveryone still needs to level up
and then understand, right,because I've been doing this for

(25:39):
I don't know 10, over 10 years,and so it's.
Every e-commerce thing, everymarketing thing, is second
nature to me.
But then, if you've never donemarketing, you're like oh, like,
what is facebook?
What are facebook ads?
What are meta ads?
What are tiktok ads, what's cpaor all that stuff right?
But for me it's just, that'sjust natural, and and so you
realize that it'll take moreyears of experience for them to

(26:02):
understand.
Once you get there, like, whyjust help this other company
just launch their productyesterday?
And then I realized every weekwe had a consulting call.
I'm like these are the thingsyou need to focus on, these are
the things you should have onthe page.
And then come to realize theyjust didn't implement any of
that stuff.
All right, and I'm like, okay,well, they paid for it they paid

(26:22):
you but they're not listening.
Yeah, yeah, so that I thinkthat's the biggest difference
between like I, what I see as myown challenges or problems and
things I want to focus on.
Like I can go focus on itbecause I have my team to help
implement these things, and then, when it's a client, whether
they implement or not.
That's where the bigdiscrepancy.

J.R. (26:42):
Okay, I want to get into ads and all that stuff, because
it's one of the things that youwrote down.
But also, on the tail end ofthis, do you have any advice or
insights for people who are inthat same space that you were,
where they want to be anentrepreneur.
Maybe they have a business ideaor something, same space that
you were where they want to bean entrepreneur.
Maybe they have a business ideaor something, and I know you do
this professionally consultingbut do you have any good
starting points or advice youcould give to those people on

(27:04):
how they can make this ideamanifest?

Eric (27:07):
Yeah, so it depends on the type of business.
If you want to do products, youwant to do service.
Let's just talk about products,just because that's more of my
realm.
Now, if you want to start aproduct-based business, I would
say figuring out how to doamazon fba is the best.
Best course like that reallyforces you to understand the

(27:30):
product, research, themanufacturing, the sourcing,
freighting it in, like learningall of the lingo, because you
just have to do every step toget your products here into the
States, set it up on Amazon,start selling.
How do you?
How to do marketing on Amazon?
How are you going to try tomarket it once your product is
here?
And so that forces you to gofrom A to Z.

(27:52):
And so that's why, when Istarted doing the product
incubation stuff, we were doingA to Z for people, because we
already did A to Z and I've seena lot of people because at that
time, when I first started, I'mmeeting other people who are on
the same journey or same pathor they're just starting off.
A lot of people figure out whatthey like in the business

(28:12):
process where then they start abusiness specifically for that.
So let's just say you go outand you want to go, you have to
source your product from China.
And so this person's wow, Ireally love that process, like
talking to reaching out to allthese factories and writing your
Excel sheet and looking at allthe costing and stuff.
And so all of a sudden thesepeople are like I'm just going

(28:35):
to now become a sourcing agent,right, I'm going to start
sourcing for other people.
Like I don't need to source myown stuff and sell my own stuff.
I've just created aservice-based business and then
source it for you, right?
The other thing could be likebecause we're doing shipping now
, but it's oh, yeah, if you needhelp with shipping, because we
have that experience.
But I had to like that.

(29:01):
So that's why, if people wantedto start entrepreneurship and
start in the product base, doingan FBA Amazon product will give
you exposure to every step youneed.

J.R. (29:11):
I like that.
I think that's really goodadvice.
Okay, so now there's acrossroads so we can talk about
Facebook ads or marketing, orthere's also shipping.
So you just teased that whereyou're getting into shipping.
Which way do you want to go?

Eric (29:25):
Let's talk about marketing first, because everything will
land at shipping productsanyways.
Yeah, yeah, yeah At the end.

J.R. (29:30):
Cool.
So what do you have to sayabout Facebook ads and whatnot?
I know, like you're saying, itwas your way to turn those leads
warmer.
They come to you and you haveexperience doing that now, but I
don't know if there are anyinsights that you want to start
with.

Eric (29:42):
Yeah, the challenge with like marketing and let's just
talk about Facebook ads I'vebeen doing it since 2017.
And so from then until now,things have changed entirely,
and even I think last week,facebook basically said hey,
we're rolling out a lot of AIfunctions now, like it used to
already have a little bit of AI,but now they're like we're

(30:04):
rolling out whatever.
I'm not really big on AI, butthey're saying like we're using
this AI tech to really hone inon running the Facebook ads on
the back end.
And these are the things thatus, as marketers, don't really
know until it rolls out andstarts happening.
So the thing with marketing is,things are always changing and
evolving, and that's the toughpart, because I feel like I'm

(30:26):
one of those people who I do seemyself being slower to change
and being like the grumpy person.
It's like, oh, the kids areplaying music too loud, Right?
Or what is this new music?
And like, where hip hop is toocrazy, right, what is mumble rap
, right?
But now I actually can't keepup with TikTok.
Tiktok to me is veryoverstimulating because, like

(30:50):
people's editing skills, they'reso crazy.
And so I actually don't look atTikTok very often, like barely,
and maybe if my wife wants toshow me a video or something.
But I'm more on Instagrambecause the edits there are a
little bit more like, easier towatch.
But that's why I'm like, withmarketing, everyone knows
everything's on TikTok, right?
Tiktok's the thing.

(31:10):
That's where everyone goesviral, that's where brands need
to go, and so that's where we'vebeen struggling in the last
three years, because I haven'treally adopted TikTok as much,
and so that's why, in marketing,you just have to continue
evolving.
And that's the tough part,because I can see myself not
evolving through this TikTokphase.
We just tell them like, hey,look, we can service you guys on

(31:36):
Facebook ads, meta ads,instagram, all that's fine.
Like we are still running it,still doing it, and then now we
can adapt to whatever the new AItech that Facebook is doing.
But beyond that, I'm like hey,we can't service you on TikTok,
right, it's just you got tofigure it out.
But we I talk with othermarketers and they give me
insights on how TikTok isworking and stuff and they
basically say, well, tiktok paidstill doesn't really work.

(31:59):
It's so organic videos thatdrive those sales.
So I'm like, okay, at leastthere's not really a big need
for.

J.R. (32:09):
TikTok paid marketing agencies.
Yeah, I see.
Yeah, it makes sense, becausethese platforms evolve, the
algorithms change, ai getslayered onto that, so it's
keeping up with that.
It's a challenge in itself, soit makes a lot of sense.
I would like to now pivot toSubobitage, so that's a whole
other thing.
We can probably go back toshipping as well, but I think,
from what I've researched,you've sold hundreds of
thousands of units, got into bigbox retail and I think that's

(32:32):
no small feat and you've done alot.
You built a global team and nowyou're into shipping as well.
Could feat?
And you've done a lot.
You built a global team and nowyou're into shipping as well.
Could you give us an insight onthe origin story of that and
your journey thus far?

Eric (32:42):
Yeah, so we'll start from the product incubation side,
right?
So even with a productincubator, most of those
products were tech productshardware, consumer electronics.
We had a smart law client witha golf tech product and when I
was running those businesseswith my partner and our clients,
I realized tech products arejust such a nightmare, because

(33:04):
one it's very hard to produce,very hard to manufacture.
Then you have the dealing withcustomers, and I remember
specifically I was building upthe customer support channels
and stuff, and the wildestcustomer support tickets are
like hey, I can't connect to mybluetooth to this device and I'm
like what iphone are you using?

(33:25):
And they're like iphone 4 andI'm like it clearly says iphone
8 and above compatible, right,and so you're already a couple
iphone generations behind.
And I'm like then they're likeokay, refund.
And you can't, we can't doanything about it, right, it's
just we plaster iPhone 8 andabove on the website and all of
that, and so it's just a highreturn rate, the tech issues,

(33:48):
all that stuff.
Then tech moves so fast that ifyou don't adapt to the next
technology too, then you'rescrewed.
And so when I left my businesspartners and funny enough, and
this always leads back toshipping.
At the time our third partner.
He was like hey, how, where arewe making money the most, like
the most money?
And we said we're making themost money on the shipping side,

(34:08):
not the sale of the techproduct, not the marketing side,
just the shipping of theproducts.
And so he's like hey, I'll havean extra warehouse warehouse
like you guys want to build a3pl shipping business out of
there in gilroy.
I'm like no, gilroy.
Yeah, I'm like absolutely not,and so that was like a sign for
me to leave my business partners, because they're just like, hey

(34:29):
, let's just focus on that.
And then so when I left, Iwanted to figure out another
product, and it was more of whatis the most analog product I
could figure out, and it's likepaper and cards, no technology
whatsoever.
And then it goes back into.
At this point I had alreadylaunched products for other

(34:50):
people.
I had launched random productson Amazon.
Right, we had, it was the papertargets, we had a pencil grip,
and it's just, these are justrandom junk that had no meaning
to me.
And so when I went into it, I'mlike let's make a card game.
And it's like these are goodmemories when we were kids, we
grew up playing games withfriends and family, and then

(35:10):
it's less screen time, right,and so it's just it had all
these things.
And then, once I startedresearching and developing it, I
was like there actually is.
There were no Boba themed gamesout there.
And so of course, coming frommy Taiwanese heritage, it was
like, oh, only made sense thatcreate a Boba themed game.
And so that's kind of how itstarted.

(35:32):
And then it just happened thatthis is right at the beginning
of the pandemic, and so everyonewas forced to stay indoors, and
that's actually where a surgeof the board game industry
started coming up, and so it wasjust like really good timing
that I had developed this thing,I had launched it right in the
middle of COVID and people yeah,board games and stuff and Boba

(35:54):
thing right, Boba man.
Didn't exist.
And so that's really wherethings just started taking off.
We launched on Kickstarter, dida crowdfunding campaign for it,
raised about $148,000.
And then, once we got inventory, I made a big bet.
So we pre-sold about 5,500units.

(36:14):
I ordered 10,000.
I made a big bet and was like,okay, we just received the
10,000.
Let's order another 25,000.
And we fulfilled the initial 55and we sold out of the 4,500 in
a month and I was like, butluckily, I already ordered
25,000.
So the moment I think we maybedidn't have an inventory for a

(36:36):
week or two and then so oncethat landed and we were able to
just continue selling andthrough the holidays, and then,
but the issue after that was,out of the 25,000 I ordered, we
only sold through 8,000 throughthe holidays.
And so I was, I had 17,000remaining.
And then this was right afterhall like Christmas time.
And so come January, I'm likeholy crap, we were selling

(37:00):
hundreds a day.
And then now I'm like we're notselling anything.
We're selling like five a day,maybe 10 a day if we're lucky.
And so then I realized, oh,okay, as we went through and
springtime came about, thensales started to pick up, then
summertime sales started toincrease.
And then Q4, boom, we're backup to 500 orders a day.
And I'm like, oh, wow, this iswhere I discovered the

(37:21):
seasonality of the board gameindustry.
And so then that was whatallowed me to get more prepared
to sell even more.
So that's how Subobitage grewvery fast from the beginning,
then it hit a low period, thenit went back up and then,
because of my experience withe-commerce, we were able to
scale very fast.
And then I then startedresearching well, how do I get

(37:43):
to retail?
And I cause I had no experiencein retail.
Like we did a little bit ofretail, but that was like my
business partner for our otherclients when we got their tech
products into Home Depot andLowe's and Best Buy.
But I wasn't really a part ofthat side of the thing, so I had
no exposure into big box retailas much, and so this one I had

(38:04):
to figure out all on my own, andso I went to this convention
that was mainly for board gameindustry, got referred over to a
distributor.
Then I had tried talking toother distributors too, and it's
just so wild that even thesedistributors are like oh, you're
just a one, one game company,we don't even want to bother
talking to you kind of thingRight.

(38:26):
But at the time and this is thiswas like them saying, no, don't
bother me.
I'm like, oh, okay, well, Imean I don't know what to do
then, because I we sold over 38000 in 18 months, so who else
should I talk to?
And they're like oh, you soldthat much in a short amount of
time, okay, we can talk.
And I'm like cool, and sothat's.

(38:47):
I didn't want to take no for ananswer, but it wasn't like me
playing hardball, but I was likeokay like okay, I don't know
what to do with this 38 000sales all the success if that's
not?
enough, then I don't know whatis right with this.
38,000 sales, all the success.
If that's not enough, then Idon't know what is right.
And that's because I also didsome research previously and
people, I think on the forum,said, oh, retailers will
acknowledge you if you at leastsold 10,000 a year.

(39:09):
So that's why I was like, oh,we did 38,000 in 18 months.
That should be something right.
And so that's really how we gotthe conversation and then we go
into, we decide to sign withthis distributor and then they
get us into the cycle.
But that cycle was like sixmonths of conversations back and
forth and then, once theyfinally accept, then they're

(39:32):
like, okay, yeah, you now havesix months to make sure you get
inventory to us to get into theshelves.
So even from the very firstconversation took an entire year
.
Wow, right.
So if I look at it, that meantwhen we got into our, it wasn't
until our third year in business.
Then we started rolling out toretail.
So it's just that's why, when,if we're talking about business

(39:53):
and people wanting to look andfigure out entrepreneurship and
business, people, people quittoo early.
Right, they only do it for oneyear, but then for us it took
three years to even start to getinto shells right, and so, yeah
, that's basically a longjourney, short of how we grew
and got into Big Box.

J.R. (40:11):
Getting into Big Box.
How did that change yourbusiness?
Or shifted it, or I'm assumingobviously more sales after that,
right, but was it worth it?
Maybe that's an easy question.

Eric (40:20):
It's actually the opposite okay yeah, it's, there's a lot
of growing pains.
I see, yeah, so the what's cooland this is more of a oversight
.
So I'd say it's like both theindustry and then my over.
I was being overzealous, butbasically because of our
potential with retail, I hadordered 50,000 units based on my

(40:42):
previous year's forecast and Isaid, okay, I think if we get
retail, I can order instead of25,000 at a time, I can order
50,000.
This time and my prediction wassomewhat correct.
We had a conversation withBarnes Noble.
They had already expressedinterest and most likely they
were going to sign us, but thenwe had not gotten any indication

(41:05):
from target.
But I was like me being soconfident that I was like I
think we'll get target too.
So I told the factory let'sproduce 50 000, because I think
both companies will order Ithink like 18 000 each or
something.
And then, if we need moree-commerce and we can get more
e-commerce later, but what50,000?
Because I think both companieswill order, I think like 18,000
each or something.
And then if we need moree-commerce and we can get more
e-commerce later.
But what happened was I ordered50,000, barnes and Noble took

(41:26):
the 18,000 based on theirforecast and then, and then my
distributor is like great,target wants you.
I was like, awesome, we get tosell the inventory.
And then my distributor, likeare like well, they want a
different version of your game,they want to have a big box
version.
So that's why, if you go totarget, it's a different size

(41:47):
than what's sold online.
And so they're like yeah, youbasically need to double the
size of the game just so it cansit better on the shelves.
I see so when you do go totarget, yeah, presentation.
Because they're like oh, yourtiny game is not going to stand
out across other every othergame that's on the shelves.
So that's why when people go buygames at target and you open
the box, you're like, wow,that's a lot of wasted space.

(42:09):
It's partially because of thatinteresting.
Yeah, so because of theirrequest.
Of course we're not going tosay no, but then that meant we
ordered another $25,000, right.
And so just in a very shortperiod of time, now I'm spending
over $100,000 to get moreinventory.
And so then the cash flow islike even more tied up Because

(42:32):
of this big opportunity.
Then we had to spend more money.
And then now it's like we don'tget all the money back right
away, they just pay.
They pay in increments too, sothat's been like the growing
pain on our side.
So it's great to have but it'snot.

J.R. (42:45):
It's not instant win.

Eric (42:46):
It has its own challenges and setbacks and whatnot yeah,
and so I think it's a littleweird for me to say it's oh,
getting into retail is easy.
Now the next challenge is canyou stay right?
Cause a lot of these retailerswill keep you for only a cycle
or two cycles and then you'regone.
That's why, like you, youalways go and they rotate new

(43:07):
things in and out.
Right, you have to be explodingkittens, you have to be
monopoly, you have to be.
These like longstanding titles,right, like secret Hitler, like
other games you mentioned.
You play and stuff like thosegames are evergreen, like
they'll always be on the targetshelves and everything else is
on rotation.
So that's where the hardestchallenge comes in.
And so we already been cut byBarnes at this point.

(43:29):
So it's more of like what theycall non-renewal or non-carry
forward is the official term atNCF, and so they're like oh well
, we had a three cycle purchase,which is pretty decent.
Like sometimes people get cutoff after six, six months
increments.
So we had a year and a half onshelves.
So that's our experience there.
We're still renewed at target.
We don't have a non-carryforward, knock on wood.

(43:50):
But yeah, so we'll see if weare kept in the next cycle of
target.
But yeah, that's been thejourney.

J.R. (43:57):
Dang, that's crazy, crazy inside.
Look, you never hear aboutthese stories and how this the
inner workings are Okay, sowe're shorter on time, but I
want to touch on MoCo shipping.
Everything leads to shipping.
Anything you want to throw infor that, I know everything is
out linked to this.
You said that your businesspartners, they're making the
most on shipping and so I'mguessing you got back into that.

Eric (44:21):
Yeah.
So that that's where the funnypart was.
Like they said, hey, let'sbuild a 3PL.
And I said, no, I didn't leavemy corporate job to build a 3PL.
And then now everything iscoming full circle into me
building a 3PL, which stands forthird-party logistics, right?
So it's like you have a productand then you don't want to ship
it yourself, you give it to athird party to do the logistics
for you, right?
So that's where I came in.
Because of Subobitage, based onall those numbers that I told

(44:42):
you the 38,000, 50,000, all thatstuff it's like we're shipping
that out of my apartment and outof my garage.
The remaining 17,000 units I hadfrom that first year of selling
, that was just stored in mysister's garage for like over a
year and of course my sister'slike pissed because she's out of
a garage, yeah, she's likecan't park my car.
And now it's just and I wouldliterally drive down to irvine,

(45:04):
from culver city down to irvineevery week to go pick up like a
thousand units, then put in mygarage or in my apartment at the
time, and then just like shipout all the stuff.
And so it got to a point whereI was able to move out of the
apartment, move into or leasethis townhome, and they had a
very weird garage where it waslike you could technically fit
three if they configured it forthree, but they flipped it so

(45:26):
you can only fit, you can onlydrive one car, but the backside
was two car, so you can't likepark three cars, right If the
opposite.
Anyways, yeah, so we had areally big garage for some
reason.
I was like cool, this isperfect.
I'm going to start shippingstuff out of here.
And then it got to a pointwhere we had a client come

(45:48):
through and they're like hey, wewant you to do our marketing
and our shipping.
Well, they said marketing.
And I said I'll do yourmarketing if you let me do your
shipping too.
And so they blew up and we wereon top of our game during the
holidays.
On top of their game, they wereselling more than us.
And so we're shipping out likea thousand orders a day during
Christmas time or the holidaytime out of my garage.

(46:08):
And and so it got to a pointwhere I had to decide do I want
to keep doing this, because it'snot sustainable, do it out of
your home doing this, becauseit's not sustainable to do it
out of your home?
And I'm like either we offloadand tell our clients, offload,
suburb attach, give it toanother company and say, hey,
you guys do our shipping, or weactually become a real
fulfillment center and scale up.
And so that's where 2024 camein in july, where I was like

(46:32):
okay, we're officially going tostart our logistics company,
become a shipping company andservice the industry.
And what's great about ours andthis is if people want to start
their own shipping company.
The board game industry as awhole, the other two main
players in shipping are overlyexpensive.

(46:53):
And so when I did a costcomparison to offload it to them
, to offload to other 3PLs, Iwas like, why are these board
game shipping companies soexpensive compared to a normal
e-commerce shipping company?
And so then I approached theindustry, because I'm already
going to these conventions andtrade shows.
We go in and say, hey, this isthe price of shipping.
And people are like how is thateven possible?

(47:14):
I'm like why are you so cheap?
I'm like we're not cheap, we'remarket price.
You guys are just overpayingfor these other old,
long-standing 3pls because youjust thought this is the only
option you had as a board gamecompany.
And so because of my experiencein e-commerce, because of the
experience in the board gameindustry, we now bring that side
into the board game side.

(47:35):
And then now people are like,okay, that makes sense.
It's not like we're being cheapor making like we're lying
about the rates and stuff.
Yeah, it's just like no, thisis what it is, what should be.

J.R. (47:45):
You just thought there's no other options.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Okay, so let's move forward.
It's a amazing story.
You just have a wealth ofknowledge and experience.
I feel like I could pick yourbrain all day.
You ready to move on to rapidfire questions.
Let's do it Cool.
Our first question is abillboard question.
So if you could put up a signfor millions of people to see,
what would it say as of rightnow.

Eric (48:06):
it'd be for the shipping company as we're growing, so
it'd be some witty shippingmotto or something.
Yeah, I like it.

J.R. (48:15):
What is one of the hardest challenges you faced and what
did you learn from it?
Thing.

Eric (48:19):
Yeah, I like it.
What is one of the hardestchallenges you faced and what
did you learn from it?
Hardest challenge I faced,think it would be.
I think it would just behonestly like right now I know
we were talking about it earlierbefore the podcast to you where
we're experiencing stolencontainers and clients not
paying us, and so we've,especially now being married to
like I have to consult my wifeon all these things, right,

(48:40):
cause the finances affect hertoo.
And so the toughest part rightnow, I'll be honest, is like I
told her.
I was like, hey, I can't paythe mortgage this month.
Oh, man, can you cover thismonth?
Right, and that's.
It's like that's a big blow,especially to a man where you're
like you feel like you'resupposed to be the provider.
I was like, hey, the tariffsituation is has hurt business,
like we don't have incomingbusiness this last month and

(49:03):
this month, and so money isshort, and that's been like the
toughest, I think, especiallybecause there's so many more
factors that come into play nowSelf-inflicted wounds.

J.R. (49:11):
So do you have a story about something that's gone
wrong in your life and you can'tblame anyone because you did it
to yourself?
You can also pass any of these.

Eric (49:18):
It's fine, but these are great questions.
Self-inflicted, I think thisespecially because this is very
recent pains is like theclient's not paying us what's.
I think this is like thebiggest lesson where, like and
you know me right I've alwaysbeen very positive, very social,
very outgoing.
I always even a lot of people.
I don't charge money for myconsult.

(49:39):
I actually only just starteddoing paid consulting, so I
think I should just start doingit just because.
But before I was like I'm happyto give advice, hop on calls
and all that.
And so when I started doingthese shipping services, I'm
like yeah, I'll help you out.
There's some friends orneighbors in the warehouses
where I'm just like hey, I'llgive you guys labels, just pay

(50:00):
me because I'm gettingdiscounted rates.
I'm getting way better ratesthan what you're going to get
online.
And so I was like you can usemy labels.
And then all of a sudden,they're not paying me and it's
not like I'm making a profit offof it either.
So I'm literally losing money,yeah, and so that was like and
I'm like it's not like I wouldhave gave a contract or anything
, it was literally just ahandshake deal, so for me to

(50:20):
help you out, and it was just mebeing so generous or nice at
that point, where then I screwedmyself over, right, and there's
no one to blame but myself tolet it happen.

J.R. (50:31):
Yeah, I see.
Okay, maybe this is the samevein, but if you could redo one
thing, what would you dodifferently?
Not like in a regret sense, butokay, maybe if I restarted this
point.
And then the second part tothat is, if you could give your
younger self advice, what wouldit be Good?

Eric (50:45):
questions.
Let me touch on the issue.
So, in order to fix the wholemoney problem, we just became
very strict with everyone needsa contract and, funny enough,
like I was actually veryhesitant about giving a very
strict contract, right, if youhit three penalties on this
contract and you were late topay.
Now we're charging like I don'tknow, 28, 30 percent in

(51:07):
interest per week, because thereshould be no reason that they
are late to payment.
Right, if you're late, thenyou're already a bad client, and
you should.
We should fire you anywaysright three times right, exactly
.
So it's like the second one islike just a nominal fee and
stuff.
So that's why I'm like let'sstart putting these parameters.
But I was afraid to even dothat because I felt that it was
like too mean and that was likeagainst my nature, and so I had

(51:31):
to overcome that and be likewell, this is good.
And then we had no pushback.
People are like signed there,you go, no questions asked, and
I'm like okay, I just now it'seasier, right, and now we feel
like we're safer and now thisprotects like my team payroll
and all that stuff yeah, whatwas the second advice to your
younger self at any age?
any age.
I mean honestly, I think atthis point is just not be so

(51:54):
nice and it's not about beingmean, it's just being having
more boundaries, yeahprioritizing what's important,
and you're responsible for morepeople than just yourself, so
it's more important.

J.R. (52:03):
Yeah, makes sense.
In the last few years, what newbelief, behavior or mindset has
improved your life?

Eric (52:10):
I probably would just attribute it to my wife, and I
think that's why we get along sowell.
So I mean, obviously you readoff my bio and I'm doing a lot.
I'm also doing a lot because Ido feel like when we have kids,
eventually, that I would want totake a step back, and so I'm
putting more time and effortinto really putting in the grind
and working 18 hours a day, andso it's just she helps put a

(52:34):
balance and make sure, like I'mspending time for myself or not
working too hard, because I'mover working already, and so,
yeah, it's just nice to have herhelp me take a step back if
necessary.

J.R. (52:48):
Nice, I like that.
How do you define success?

Eric (52:53):
oh, that's a good question , because a lot of people would
see oh, I got into target,that's success, I'm like and.
But it's not successful based onthe story I told right, right
context and I would say I thinksuccess is just comes in little
snapshots and that people shouldjust celebrate those successes
and wins when they come, becauseI don't think there's a really

(53:16):
long-term definition of success,like I've never quantified it
to be like oh, I want to havelike $5 million sitting in the
bank or something right, and bea millionaire.
It's more well, I hope if I didhave $5 million, I'm just
reinvesting that into somethingelse to grow it right.
I think success at a certainpoint, for me, if I was to just

(53:37):
define it, it's just as long asyou have peace in your life,
like that's health and peaceright and a community.
That's all you could really askfor.
To me it's not, you know, moneyand riches it's great to have
that in order to live a certainlifestyle that you want, but
beyond that, without your healthand peace right, peace of mind,
so I would say that yeah, thatwould be the success, that would

(53:58):
be the short answer.

J.R. (53:59):
Yeah, this is like a two-part question again.
If you knew you couldn't fail,what would you be doing now?

Eric (54:04):
or trying, and the second part of that is if you knew you
would absolutely fail regardless, what would you do anyway?
If I couldn't fail up, then I'dprobably just like gamble or
play stock market or put intocrypto or something I lost a lot
on crypto, so I just stopped.

J.R. (54:21):
Okay, crypto, yeah.
So that's why I was like, if Ididn't fail, then yeah yeah,
yeah, wish that panned out.

Eric (54:26):
If I did fail, but I would still do it I would probably be
doing what I'm doing today.
And because, to me, yeah, notgetting paid by clients
incurring those debts, thingsgetting stolen to me those are
all like failures, but I thinkit just comes down to what do
you do after?
Right, are you getting back up?
Are you trying to figure thingsout?
You're not able to pay themortgage this month?

(54:47):
It's okay.
Well, what am I doing next toreally not get back to that
either?
Right?
So, with all the failures, it'sjust.
I think it just comes down tohow do you get back up?
Yeah.

J.R. (54:59):
What is something that you've been pondering deeply or
often, or what is your favoritehot take?
I know you have a lot ofconcerns as an entrepreneur, as
a business owner, so maybethere's a lot of stuff on your
mind, but anything else besidesthat that you've been pondering
deeply or frequently?
Yeah I think.

Eric (55:17):
So I went back to vietnam to have asia wedding and stuff
and being able to, and that waslike a first long vacation I've
had in a couple years and Ithink it was just nice to see my
mom spend more time or get toknow my wife's family too.
And then that there's like amoment where it's a man yeah,
you can tell like your parentsare getting old, and so that

(55:39):
thought of we're getting to thisage where you want to treat
your parents and stuff, and soI'm like, luckily, with the
business and running a businessand this is partially why I like
to run the business is becausewe accumulate a crap ton of
travel points through the creditcards and stuff.
And so my wife and I havetalked about, yeah, we want to
use our points to at least flyour family business class or

(56:01):
take them on a trip or a cruiseand stuff.
So that's been most of what wetalk about.

J.R. (56:05):
And how do we make sure my mom is enjoying herself,
especially at this age, becauseshe's worked a long time, very
hard, and we were like we justwant her to enjoy herself now.
I love that Funny because mymom is going to be on the show
tomorrow, so we get to revisitthis theme.
What is one of the best or mostworthwhile investments you've
made in either time money,energy, et cetera?

Eric (56:28):
I'd probably say the team I've been building, and
especially once we have a goodhire, then you just want to like
retain them as long as possible.
But I know a lot of the timesand especially we have one one
one of our main employees likeshe's leaving in a couple of
months to start having a familyand stuff.
So it's part of the journey.

(56:49):
But I think you can tell thequality difference when you
invest into your team andemployees and the quality comes
out.
I've had bad employees and lowquality workers before and it's
all.
It just becomes more stressful.
So I think that's been the bestinvestment is just like growing
the team, and what was cool isthat I flew out the core team to
the wedding in Vietnam from thePhilippines, and so it's like

(57:10):
finally being able to meet themin person after three, four or
five years of working together.
Yeah, so yeah, that's probablybeen one of the best investments
so far.
Nice.

J.R. (57:20):
Okay, last rapid fire question Any favorite books,
movies, videos, articles, mediathat you share or recommend?
The?

Eric (57:25):
most.
Oh man, this one's a toughquestion, just because I had a
big phase of learning and that'swhere I try to read a lot of
books and listen to a lot ofpodcasts and stuff.
But I'm I've I theme my lifeevery year where I like it'd be

(57:46):
like oh, I'm in a learning phase, so that year I'm more
intentional about reading andlearning, so that's why I don't.
I'm not in that phase, I'm moreof like implementation and
scaling.
Now I don't know, I mean theback in the day.
I would recommend like fourhour work week as a book if
you're trying to start on theentrepreneurial journey, but
only read the first half,because the second half is not

(58:08):
relevant anymore.
It's like outdated, it's veryoutdated.
E-myth I forget the subtitle toe-myth yeah, I've read the book
.

J.R. (58:15):
Yeah, yeah, that one I remember reading it.

Eric (58:17):
I was like that's a good book.
But now I just don't rememberyeah, what it is.

J.R. (58:21):
Any recent media it could be fun entertainment sort of
stuff.
But anything you recommend onthat end I do binge watch a lot
of Netflix shows, but in thebackground.

Eric (58:31):
So my friends make fun of me because they're like oh, we
watched this.
I was like, oh, I watched ittoo.
And they're like, oh, when thishappened, this happened.
I was like who they're like themain character.
I'm like, oh, I just threw iton the background.
I just have background noise,so it's hard to oh, I do sit
down and watch and dedicate.
I'm trying to think White Lotus, season three, was not that
good.
It was too slow.

(58:51):
There was one show.

J.R. (58:53):
This one show sounded really cool, but I forgot what
it was about.
Yeah.

Eric (58:57):
You're a busy guy.
Shogun was good, though Iremember Shogun was one that
I'll sit down and watch and payattention to.
So it's like, when there's ashow like that, where I want to
sit down and carve out time,then yeah.

J.R. (59:09):
Cool, yeah, we can do that , shogun's fine.
Okay, that is it for rapid fire.
We'll go into ending questions.
So gratitude shout out to mymom, eric what are you grateful
for?

Eric (59:21):
Yeah, I'm.
I mean, I was very grateful formy wife for supporting me.
I mean that's how I fell inlove with her, because I think
it was maybe our eighth datereading at my favorite Korean
restaurant.
And she was like, when she toldme, she's like hey, I know
you're in pursuit of all theseentrepreneur stuff, so I will
support you and your dreams andhowever you do it.
Right and I'm like wow.

(59:42):
Oh, man Like she has my back,yeah.
And then, of course, now we'rein this tough time of the
economy and she's like, but Istill have to give you a hard
time about it.
I'm like I'm not just be like,okay, I'll pay for it, just like
, hey man, like yeah, youshouldn't have gotten to this
point anyways, right.
And I'm like, okay, well, I'mgrateful for her still, that she
is supporting yeah, I love thatshe's like I'm still here, I
promise, but I can still giveyou a hard time.

J.R. (01:00:03):
Exactly, I love it cool.
Any final ask or finaltakeaways you'd like the
audience to have from thisconversation?

Eric (01:00:10):
feel free to plug, of course.
Yeah, no, not too crazy.
I mean, if I'm always happy tohelp and chime in like you have
a business idea or trying tofigure out the next phase of
business, or if you guys areinterested in logistics and 3pl
shipping, I'm more than happy tohelp.
Yeah, you can always contact meon LinkedIn, my Instagram and

(01:00:31):
what else.
Yeah, our website.
Yeah, moco Shipping that'sM-O-C-O shippingcom.
Launchbrandgrowcom also workstoo.
So, yeah, just anything.
Really, I'm just.
I just try to help where I can,just because I've I've gotten
advice from other entrepreneursand I just try to give back
where I can, because I try togive as much as I take from
other mentors that I have aswell.

(01:00:52):
I love it.

J.R. (01:00:53):
Yeah, and we'll link everything in the show notes
description to be able to findwhat Eric's up to and if you
want to reach out or stuff likethat.
So well, that is it for theinterview, Eric.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
You are a wealth of knowledge.
I appreciate you taking out thetime.
I'm sure this will add a lot ofvalue to whoever listens to it,
and for myself especially.
I'm taking a bunch of notes onthis later on, so I appreciate

(01:01:13):
it.

Eric (01:01:13):
Yeah, well, thank you for having me and thank you guys for
listening too.
Hope you guys enjoyed it.

J.R. (01:01:17):
Nice, cool, I'll do my final sign off.
Thank you guys for being here.
Remember to like, follow,subscribe and reminder to always
be kind to other people,especially yourself, and
remember that you can alwayslearn something from someone if
you take the time to listen.
So thanks for listening.

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#41: Eric Y. Chen - Learning Sales & Marketing, Launching Sabobatage, and Growing Businesses from A to Z

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#41: Eric Y. Chen - Learning Sales & Marketing, Launching Sabobatage, and Growing Businesses from A to Z