#53: Lindsey Nellessen - Salary Negotiations, Online Courses, and Achieving a $100k Net Worth in Your 20s - One Thousand Gurus Podcast

Episode Transcript
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J.R. (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of 1000
Gurus with me, your host, jrYonacruz.
Today's guest is LindsayNellison.
Lindsay is a personal financeeducator, marketing professional
, wife and mom to a one-year-oldson.
She started her money coachingbusiness at the age of 26 and
has helped thousands of youngadults become more confident
with their money.
It is a lazy Sunday today andthis actually was recorded

(00:24):
yesterday, so it was a fastturnaround.
I know I say this all the time.
This was easily one of my topfavorite episodes of all time.
I know it's probably recencybias each time, but I say that
this time because one Lindsayand I go way back to 2016 when
we used to be co-workers andshe's one of the only people
that I can nerd out with aboutmoney.
But we also have very similarinterests of being
career-focused, we both likepersonal finance, we're into

(00:47):
fitness and nutrition and wehave our shared Christian faith,
and we haven't chatted for afew years since, I think, her
wedding back in 2021.
So this was a partial catch-upsession.
Second is because Lindsay isalso a great communicator, as
you'll find out from thisepisode.
She's very good at synthesizinga lot of valuable information,
like on personal finance, intobite-sized and digestible chunks
, which makes her a top-tierguest for digging into important

(01:10):
topics with very actionabletakeaways.
We talk about her overallcareer journey from marketing to
finance, double majoring at UCI, entrepreneurship, ai, software
, online video courses,technical strategies on personal
finance, like budgeting or whyneither of us actually do strict
budgeting and the surefire wayto have a 100k net worth in your
20s.
I love this conversation andhopefully we'll be able to do a

(01:32):
part two someday.
So, without further ado, hopeyou enjoyed this episode with
Lindsay Nelson.
Hello everyone and welcome backto 1000 Gurus.
Lindsay, welcome to the show.

Lindsey (01:47):
Thanks for having me, Marlo.
Yeah, thanks for being here.
Do you go by?

J.R. (01:50):
Marlo on the show or do you go by JR?
I go by everything.
You know I've had Clark on theshow and Ollie on the show, so
they both called me Marlo andI'm like disclaimer to my
audience I usually go by JR, butI also go by Marlo.
So yeah, thank you for beinghere, lindsay.
Here, lindsay, I will say sinceI started the podcast, you have
been a coveted guest I'vewanted to have on the show
because I've always wanted totalk about money and obviously

(02:11):
you're a money expert, and soI've had random episodes where
my friends and I will talk aboutfinance and money.
But it's, I know what I'msaying, but it'd be nice to be
like this person literallyteaches finance, even if we have
like similar, I guess,knowledge or similar
implementations of money.
It's always nice to get someonelike a guest, and I think I
explained this off camera.

(02:31):
It's the nice thing abouthaving guests is I can say
everything that I've learnedfrom books and people.
But it's nice to be like thisis what other people say, so you
should listen to them.
The whole profit is not welcomein their own home, sort of
thing.
Anyways, that's side tangent.
So again, thank you for beinghere, lindsay.
I'll go into how I know youreal quick.
So we met in 2016.
Let me know if I'm getting anyof this wrong.

(02:52):
I kind of just going into thearchives of my brain.
We both worked at Casepeer,which is a software for legal
firms.
We slowly became friends.
We played Secret Hitler duringlunch and other board games, and
we've done escape roomstogether.
You also went to UCI.
You double majored in business,admin and social psychology,
yeah, and we also had virtualchats during the pandemic.
You invited us to your wedding,which is super fun, you and

(03:15):
Nate, and you also did financialcoaching for a number of years
and you recently had a baby.
I feel like we met in, like itmust have been, when did you
start at Casepeer?

Lindsey (03:28):
I started at Casepeer in 2016.

J.R. (03:29):
So it must have been late 2016.

Lindsey (03:30):
Yeah, it must have been that time.

J.R. (03:31):
Yeah, because I know, I know yeah, I joined Bergen
Mrojovsky, their firm, in like2014.
And then two years after that,I was going to join Casepeer, so
it's probably like 2016.
It's probably late 2016.

Lindsey (03:42):
Yeah, case spirit like just started oh my gosh, I think
I was the first like non-devemployee really I think so.

J.R. (03:48):
How did you find out about the job you just applied online
, or did you know someone?

Lindsey (03:52):
yeah, it was like the uci job board and I was just
like applying for.
I think I must have applied tolike at least 50 or 100 jobs my
senior year of college and itwas an internship position.
I honestly don't know why Iapplied for the internship
position because I already had ajob, but that's how I found out
about it.
And then they were like we canbeat your current job right.

(04:13):
And I was like, cool, do bothjobs.

J.R. (04:15):
Nice.
Well, it seems like it workedout, I guess.
It did, yeah, cool.
So I'll do an overview of thetopics that we have, but, as
I've mentioned and listeners ofthe show will know that, we go
off the cuff sometimes.
Main topics first one yourorigin story, just to humanize
you a bit, life aspirations,career journey.
Second topic money, personalfinance exactly what I wanted

(04:37):
you on the show.
And then topic three if we getto this point personal life,
marriage, health, kids, otherthings that you've mentioned,
you wanted to talk about orinterested in talking about.
Hopefully we'll get into therebecause I think there's a lot of
good stuff there.
Intro topics life updates.
So yes, as we mentioned, yourecently became a mother.
I'm curious how has motherhoodbeen?
And I imagine it's been a hugechange in your life, I mean

(05:00):
that's an understatement, Right.

Lindsey (05:02):
At first, honestly, it was really hard, Like I had an
emergency C-section and then Ihad like pretty bad postpartum
depression and anxiety.
So it was like a really hardfirst couple months and I don't
think anybody tells you this,but like for two months I didn't
sleep more than three hoursstraight per day at all ever.

J.R. (05:28):
And nobody tells you like how, what?

Lindsey (05:29):
that's because of the postpartum.
No, because the baby wakes upbecause the baby got you because
the baby wakes up and you haveto feed him or whatever help him
get back to sleep and I had noidea whatever babies need.
I had no idea that, like I knewthere was going to be sleep
deprivation, but I didn't knowthat, like the first couple of
weeks of a baby's life, you haveto feed them every two hours,

(05:51):
but it takes them like an hourto eat, so you're up in like
another hour.
It's insane, marlo.
I had no idea, so that wasreally hard, but other than that
it's been just awesome.
Like it's way better than Ithought it would be.

J.R. (06:04):
Nice, I'm glad to hear, I'm glad to hear everything
turned out okay.
It's funny because my mom, forall of my mom's three kids, they
were all C-sections, like we'reall C-section babies.
And it was funny because thefirst two were like okay, yeah,
you need to C-section.
And then by the third one, mylittle brother, my mom's like
you know what, just cut me openagain, like I'm used to it.

Lindsey (06:24):
At this point we're like, okay, sure, why not Only
way to do it at that point, Iguess?

J.R. (06:30):
Yeah, she's like this is the only way I'm used to, so
might as well just do that Cool.
And then I wanted to ask sowhat else have you been up to?

Lindsey (06:50):
I know anymore.
I'm trying to get off socialmedia, but it's kind of weird.
When you have a podcast, whatelse you been up to Working?
The last time we talked, wetalked about my then new job
that I've now been at for likefour years, so that's been
incredible Best job.
No offense, I met you at CasePier, which was great, but this
job is so much sorry, case Pier,but like this job is just so
much better I really like it,like having better jobs yeah, oh
, and I moved back to irvinebecause I was in the inland

(07:11):
empire for a while, which youknow, but your listeners don't.
your listeners don't knowanything about me.
Hi, everyone, not yet.
But yeah, so I was in, like sanbernardino, loma, linda, for
three years while my husband wasworking there, and then we
moved back to Irvine and nowhe's working at UCI and we
bought a house during that time,like, we had a five-week-old

(07:33):
and we bought a house and it wasinsane because we also had to
fix up the house and we had tomove with the baby.

J.R. (07:40):
So, yeah, it's been a lot of change all at once, but we're
settling in now, which is great, yeah, so how do you like it
being back in Irvine?

Lindsey (07:51):
So much better.
It's so much better.

J.R. (07:54):
Yeah, I definitely want to move back to Irvine eventually.

Lindsey (07:57):
Where are you right now , irvine's?

J.R. (07:58):
super nice.
I'm in Cerritos.
Do you know that area?
I'm like up to 605.

Lindsey (08:02):
Well, Cerritos Auto Square.

J.R. (08:03):
Yeah, and Cerritos Mall.
It's a nice in-between becauseI'm going to UCLA constantly for
dance practice and so comingfrom Irvine originally was
insane Like it's an hour atmidnight for traffic, but during
the day it's two hours easily,so I'm like all right.
Well, I now like this area too,but I think Irvine eventually

(08:24):
is my goal.
It's so nice.
Let's go into your origin storylife aspirations, career
journey.
So, lindsay, where did you growup and what were your main
influences you want to give?

Lindsey (08:36):
us like the TLDR.
I grew up in this small towncalled Claremont.
It's about 35 miles east of LosAngeles.
It's a college town andinfluences my parents.
I feel like most people, theirparents influenced them,
definitely a big influence, and,just like the people around me,
the culture at the time, If wewant to connect the dots, fast

(08:59):
forward.

J.R. (09:00):
What were your career aspirations or, I guess, life
aspirations when you weregrowing up, leading to UCI, and
then your career after that?

Lindsey (09:07):
I never really I knew that I wanted to be successful
in a career and I knew that Iwanted to like my job, but those
were.
And I wanted to make good money, but those were really the only
things that I thought of, andso I was always trying to.
I was always taking personalitytests oh, what career should I
do?
Whatever.
But now that I now I kind offeel like I've arrived, like I

(09:30):
make good money, I'm happy in myjob and, yeah, Is that why I
forgot the question already.
Career aspirations.

J.R. (09:38):
Yeah, and I think the spirit of the question is like
for people who, whatever stagethey're at in their life, it's
just hearing about how otherpeople arrived and you're saying
that you really only had a fewthings, which is I want to make
good money, I want to enjoy mywork, etc.

Lindsey (09:53):
And so that was kind of like your guiding I don't know
values principle yeah, I mean,obviously it got more refined
over time because I startedworking and I figured out what I
didn't like and it just kind ofballooned from there.
I think the craziest thing thathappened was I started out at

(10:13):
Casepeer.
I worked in marketing.
Right, I tried to make a careerswitch into recruiting because
I did so much research.
I talked to a career coach, allthese things, and I was like
recruiting is what I was meantto do, it's what I'm going to do
.
That was in October 2019 orsomewhere around there, and, of
course, covid happened.
A couple months later.
The recruiting industry imploded, my company imploded.

(10:36):
So many branches closed down.
I got laid off, most of my teamgot laid off, and so I was like
well, what am I supposed to donow?
This was supposed to be thecareer that I was going to do,
and so what am I going to do?
So I'm like do I go back tomarketing?
Do I try recruiting again?
And long story semi short.

(10:58):
I started my own business,which I had wanted to do for a
long time, but I decided that Iwas going to become a financial
coach, which is like teachingpeople about finances.
It's not a financial advisorthat manages money for you
because you've got to belicensed to do that told people

(11:20):
I was doing it.
And then I got clients and Istarted making money from it and
it was so crazy it wasn't a lotof money, but it was like
something and I was able to helppeople and it was so awesome.
And so on my LinkedIn, I likechanged my industry to finance
and then about a year into that,I started to get really lonely

(11:43):
and I had just gotten marriedand I had just moved to a new
area where I knew one otherperson and I was like I'm lonely
, I want to start working again.
As soon as I changed my statuson LinkedIn to open to work, I
got this message from thisrecruiter that was like hey, do
you want to work for thisfinance company in Boston?

(12:05):
And I was like, okay, so Iended up getting the job.
That's where I work now andit's just the best.
And I just can't believe that,like me, just saying that I've
worked in finance because I saidI wanted to led to me getting
an actual job in finance.

J.R. (12:21):
Yeah, that's crazy.
What is like the overall thingyou do and what makes it such a
great job in your opinion?

Lindsey (12:28):
Yeah, so I help financial advisors with their
marketing.
So I still use my marketingbackground, but most of my job
is talking to people.
Now.
Which is something I didn'tlike about previous jobs was
that like I was doing a lot ofwriting or I was doing a lot of
social media, which made me feelicky, just because social media

(12:49):
makes me feel really anxious,and but now I'm just like
talking to people aboutmarketing or I do some like
light tech support of like ourmarketing tools.
So, and then I do a little bitof sales as well, but very like
low pressure situation and Ilove it because I feel like I'm
really able to help these people.

(13:10):
I love talking to them.
They're people Our clients arelike the nicest people ever.
Like I've had somebody yell atme two times and both times
they've apologized to meafterwards.
They're so nice, afterwardsthey're so nice and so anyway.
So it's like customer servicesales, and then I also do some
project management.
So I like that.

(13:30):
I have a lot of variety.
But I also really like workingremotely, which I thought I
would hate, but I like itbecause I don't need to pretend
like I'm working if I'm not.
That's like the thing I hatemost about working in an office
is, if I don't have something todo like I can work on something
else Like I can do a load oflaundry or whatever.
I can go to the gym during lunch, so that's what I like about my

(13:53):
job.
Oh, and my boss is amazing andall my co-workers are awesome.

J.R. (13:57):
Yeah, those are always good pluses, right, and I like
that point you make because it'sthey're trying to keep you
there for x amount of hours.
But it's just because I'msitting here for eight hours
doesn't mean I'm producing value.
For eight hours I can stilldeliver the value that you
expected me, but not have to bethere, and that's why I also, I
agree I like remote work as well, though of course people do

(14:17):
like working in the office forthose various reasons of talking
to people or having thatenvironment.
Even for me, like I'll comeinto, I don't need to, but maybe
like once every three to sixmonths just to get free snacks
and if our team is meeting up.
But otherwise I'm like, yeah, Ican go to the gym during lunch,
I can go grocery shopping andall this other stuff.
So it's pretty nice.

Lindsey (14:37):
Yeah, and I love working East Coast hours too.
I work 6am to 3pm.

J.R. (14:41):
It is incredible.

Lindsey (14:43):
I don't mind waking up early, I'm a perky morning
person.
Anyway, my first meeting's at6.30 am.
I'm off by three.
I get to hang out with my kid.
It's great.

J.R. (14:53):
So I guess you already went over your career journey.
How did you decide your majorgoing into UCI and I know you
were saying that you found thisjob through Case Spear and then
these other kind of careerpivots based on your journey,
just circumstance?
What was that deciding factorgoing into college?

Lindsey (15:12):
So funny story.
I was actually just thinkingabout this today.
I entered UCI as a psychologymajor major and when I was
applying to college I don't knowwhy, but for that maybe
six-month period I was like I'mgoing to become a psychology

(15:33):
professor.
I had never taken a psychologyclass in my life.
I had read some psychologybooks because I'm a nerd like
that.
That's just what I thought Iwanted to do.
And then when I got into theschool and started registering
for my classes, I was like, oh,can I switch to a business major
?
And they were like oh, no,that's really hard.
And I was like, well, what do Ineed to do?
And they were like well, yougot to take these classes and

(15:53):
you got to get good grades, butthere's no guarantee.
And I was like, okay, I'mtaking the classes and I'm going
to get a 4.0.
And so I got pretty close tothat and I took all the classes
and then I ended up as abusiness major.
The reason that I knew I wantedto be a business major and not
just stick with psych is becauseI was offered an internship at

(16:16):
NASA my freshman year and thenthey found out that I wasn't,
that I was a psychology majorand not like engineering or
business.
And they were like, sorry, wecan't offer you the job because
you're not the right major.
And I was like that is sofreaking stupid.
I'm going to go get that majornow.
So I never ended up interningin NASA, but that's kind of the
reason why I was so stubbornabout it.

J.R. (16:39):
I want to jump into your decision to become an
entrepreneur, and then somethingyou mentioned was several
failed businesses before makingmoney through social media.
Could you walk us through thatjourney and maybe what key
elements helped get you there?

Lindsey (16:53):
Yeah, well, I think the reason that I succeeded that
time was because I had I knewwhat didn't work from before.
So I had tried, like rightafter I graduated college, I
tried starting a blog on gettinginto a UC because I had worked
in admissions during college andlike bought some domain names
because our boss like just wasalways buying domain names and

(17:16):
so I thought that was like athing you did to invest, which
is so dumb.
And then you and I even triedstarting something.

J.R. (17:25):
It like wrote a couple, couple blog posts, maybe the
comedy health one yeah that'ssuch, still, such a good idea
it's still such a funny ideait's still.
Yeah, I still like the idea.
I just we know we didn't, weweren't able to put time into it
, but I still like it oh my gosh, now with ai we could do it so
quickly and easily.

Lindsey (17:43):
We could just have ChatGPT write our funny stuff.

J.R. (17:46):
It's trust me.
I am deep in the rabbit holewith AI software, so I have
things in the pipeline actually.

Lindsey (17:53):
just on that note, I can't wait to see it.

J.R. (17:56):
Yeah, I mean so it's not funny or satirical, but it's
just like these differentbusiness things and just
learning, ai, software andautomation that I'm very
interested in, especially withstarting my own businesses and
these little projects that I'mdoing.
But, yeah, no, it's superexciting.
Anyways, sorry, go ahead.

Lindsey (18:16):
Yeah, no, okay.
But on that tangent, though,you know what I've been seeing a
lot of that.
I'm like I totally could havedone this, like back in the day
on Pinterest.
It'll have these recipes,because I use Pinterest a lot
for recipes I have for years.
There are these recipes thatare very clearly AI generated
and you know how, on recipes,they'll tell their whole life
story and then they'll have apicture of themselves and be
like hey, I'm Camilla and I likefood and whatever, and I keep

(18:38):
seeing these are all AIgenerated.
There's a picture of a personthat is clearly AI generated,
that has like a fake story, andI'm like this is such easy money
.

J.R. (18:48):
Yeah, actually one of the one of the programs that I'm
looking at.
It kind of walks you throughhow to do like a PDF business
where it is creating contentthrough ChatGPT and, like Canva
and these other softwares,integrate them together, have
like a turnkey website builderthing, and then you just run
meta ads and then you sell thisdigital product and I'm like,

(19:09):
okay, there's a low price point.
I do want to learn these skillsand even if it doesn't get
anywhere, it's something I'minterested in.
But it was only like 20 bucks.
So I'm like, okay, sure, let mesee how this works.
And a lot of it is like usethree or four different AI
programs to do these things, putit together and then just run
ads and you make money while yousleep.
And I'm like, okay, I'm diggingit.

(19:30):
So I'm more than halfwaythrough it now and it's very
interesting.

Lindsey (19:33):
So it's a course you're taking to learn about how to do
that.

J.R. (19:35):
Yeah, it's a course, so you pay there's like a $20 one,
and then, of course, thispremium.
What's annoying?
I'll give you the TLDR, but theannoying part is like the first
three videos is basically asales pitch to upsell you on the
premium course.
And I'm like, go screw yourself.
I just want to learn the thingthat you told me I'm going to
learn in the basic.
And now I'm going through thecourse.

(19:55):
I'm like, okay, in the premiumupsell package they give you
these templates.
I'm like, okay, I can see thevalue of those now because it's
made for you.
And then, but here's how toconnect everything.
Otherwise, you can do your ownresearch and make your own
templates yourself or your ownPDFs or whatever.
But I'm like, okay, let me gothrough this first, see if I can
do it my own, and then if Iwant to upgrade to the premium

(20:16):
course.
I think it's worth the money ifit works out, but like proof of
concept, right.
But yes, now we're on money andentrepreneurship.

Lindsey (20:23):
But yeah, I think that's like the future, right

(20:45):
because I took a course fromDanielle Leslie which is weird
that I had just gotten a YouTubead for her.
And then she was like, oh, cometo my webinar.
Blah, blah, blah and I neverbuy anything from those stupid
webinars.
But then I woke up in themiddle of the night that night
and I was like I have to getthis course.
I don't know why, but I'm justgoing to try it.
And then it ended up not onlychanging my life but so many
other people that I coached andfollowed, like.

(21:06):
I remember I had this one clientwho was like, yeah, I have a
family of.
She had four other siblings, orfive other siblings maybe, and
she's like nobody in my familyknows how to do this, nobody
knows how to invest.
And you taught me to invest andit's so easy.
I'm teaching all of my sistersand all my brothers how to do it

(21:26):
.
And you just changed myfamily's trajectory.
And oh, I had this otherstudent who similar, he like
grew up kind of poor and now helives in a duplex.
So he like lives on the topfloor and then rents out the
bottom and he's like investinglike so much money and it's just
so cool.
My students are doing betterthan me.

J.R. (21:48):
Nice.
We like to hear it.
That's how I know you're addingvalue.
Nowadays there's so manycourses out there.
How do you, for people who areinterested in business and money
, just say it loud into yourphone and eventually you'll get
an ad for something.
So my question to you is how dopeople sort the signal from the
noise in terms of these moneymaking, business endeavors or

(22:12):
people just like?
I made eight, nine figures andlet me show you how to do it,
but it's basically a videocourse on showing you how to
make your own video course.
So sometimes obviously there'sgood value there, but sometimes
there's a lot of people justmuddying the pool with their
scam content.
How do you approach weeding outgood information from bad
information?

Lindsey (22:32):
The thing is that was in 2020 that I bought that
course, and so I feel like therewas a little less noise during
that time.
But sorting through the weedstoday, I feel like, generally,
if you follow that person onparents in a video course, it
was a video course and it was onkajabi, which I'm sure you're

(23:13):
familiar yeah and well.

J.R. (23:16):
The video course was on baby sleep, but it was hosted on
kajabi and I was like ah, she'sone of those yeah and yeah, but
it was like a hundred dollars,so I don't think it was a bad
use of money, but the question Ihave for you is yeah is like
now with even before 2020,there's YouTube, there's Google,

(23:37):
now we have chat, gpt and allthese places For information.
You could probably find a lot ofthe same information on other
topics on YouTube.
People just have their nichecontent channel and it adds huge
value.
Like I was looking up how to dotax accounting for solo
businesses, just to check all myboxes to make sure I know
everything and I have abackground in accounting

(23:59):
professionally.
But just as a refresher, I'mlike, okay, this all makes sense
, but this is like quality freevideos from these YouTube
channels, like several of them,and so it's always so
interesting how people can makeso much money from these courses
when information is so free.
But, of course, if you have agood sales page and ad and
landing page and everything, youcan make an argument to have

(24:21):
someone buy that course if youshow enough value.
But I'm just curious if you hadany thoughts on that.

Lindsey (24:27):
Yes, I do so.
I think that's exactly theproblem with the internet, and
why courses are needed now isbecause there's so much
information on the internet.
It's really hard to sift throughit and figure out, like what's
right and wrong, which one youwant to follow, whatever the
thing with a course and itdepends on the subject matter

(24:49):
but, for example, like aninvesting course, right, I spent
probably I spent maybe fouryears well, three years of
research before I was able tofigure out how to invest
effectively, and I spent so manyhours like forums and books and
audio books and all thesedifferent things like trying to

(25:14):
figure out, like how to makemoney in the stock market.
And then, once I figured it out, I was like this is so easy.
So then I made my own courseand my course is like okay, yeah
, you can find all thisinformation because I did, but
it's like you'll get therefaster if you take the course,
and I think that's the valuethat a lot of courses can bring

(25:34):
if they're done well.
That being said, there's a lotthat aren't, and you can always
do your own research, but Ithink courses save you more time
overall, and in today's economy, time is money.

J.R. (25:46):
So the value is from putting together a class right
Like funneling the right,curated information in the most
effective, digestible way, andthat's where you get your
money's worth and value out ofthat, as opposed to trying to
swim into the ocean of YouTubeor Google and like trying to
figure out and get what you need.

Lindsey (26:06):
Yeah, yeah, and I think too, like when you commit to a
course, another piece of thevalue is like you've put money
into it, so you want to get theinformation more.
You're like more motivated too,so there's some sort of
self-selection bias there.
And the other thing, too, islike there's so much on the

(26:27):
internet and there's no matterwhat you're trying to do.
There's a million paths for howto get there.
And if you get a course and youjust get one, then you're kind
of like OK, I'm committed tothis way of doing it, rather
than listening to all the noise.
And that doesn't mean that wayis necessarily right or
necessarily the best way, but atleast you've made a decision

(26:50):
made a decision.

J.R. (26:51):
I think that's a good psychological behavior thing is,
if you want someone to buy intosomething like what they
literally buy into it, they'remore committed to that route,
like you're saying.
And so it's like free adviceversus if you charge someone for
consulting, they're going totake your advice more seriously
because they paid you money.

Lindsey (27:05):
Yeah, that's why I never gave away coaching for
free because I wanted people totake it seriously.
It wasn't because I was like,oh, I need to grab money.
It was because I wanted peopleto like, actually take it
seriously.

J.R. (27:16):
I want to ask you before we move on to personal finance,
because that's the juicy partthat I want to get to.
But you mentioned negotiating.
Well, I guess this is financeright Negotiating a 50% increase
in compensation in one year.
Could you tell us a story ofhow that happens and some tips
or advice when negotiatingincreases in compensation that

(27:37):
you could share with theaudience.

Lindsey (27:38):
So I took a course for that.
That was from Save my Sense.
She's on Instagram.
She is amazing.
Her name is Shang Sheng.
I don't remember how shepronounced her name.
I'm sorry, she actually livesin Irvine.
But, yeah, I took her course.
But I also had read a lot ofnegotiation books and oh, ramit
Sethi's.
He has like a negotiation thingonline.

(27:58):
I think you told me about hisbook maybe.

J.R. (28:00):
Yeah, I'm a huge fan.

Lindsey (28:01):
Oh my gosh, I Will Teach you To Be Rich is the only
book you need to read forpersonal finance.

J.R. (28:05):
Anyway, thank you, lindsay .
I've been throwing that outthere.

Lindsey (28:08):
It's the only one you need to read, and I've read a
lot.
I've probably read like twodozen, yeah.
So I took her course because Iknew that I was being underpaid.
So first I asked some of mycoworkers that are doing the
same job or similar job.
I was like how much are yougetting paid?
And I found out that I wasbeing paid less than somebody
with less experience than me andI was like that's not cool.

(28:29):
So yeah yeah, totally, but I wasalso a contractor anyway.
So I had a little bit morewiggle room because I was a
contractor.
So I go to my boss and I'm like, hey, like I've gotten a lot
more responsibilities lately andI had them listed out too,
excuse me.
And so went to my boss and Ibasically used the script from
Ramit and was like, can we talkabout a compensation adjustment?

(28:54):
And my boss was like super opento it.
She was like yeah, I think thatmakes sense.
So she had me do a write-up ofwhat my original
responsibilities were, what myincreased responsibilities have
been.
And then what I also did was Iwas like this is how much money
I've directly made for thecompany and all of my
accomplishments thus far.
I had been in the role formaybe only nine months and I

(29:16):
said what my compensationexpectations were.
I even added a little bit morebecause I talked to one of my
other friends and she told mehow much money she was making
and she had the same level ofexperience as me.
And I was like, oh, okay, I'mgoing to add three more dollars
an hour.
And I got it.
They like didn't even negotiatewith me.
They were just like yep, cooland I was like, okay, great.
But then a few months later Ihad I got a job offer from a

(29:40):
competitor and the job seemedgood.
It was for a better company.
It was like a $10 an hour raiseand then, remember, I was a
contractor, so $10 an hour islike 20 grand a year.
So I was really torn because Ireally liked my job.
But this job also soundedreally cool.
It seemed like it was going tobe good for my career.
So I talked to my boss and I waslike I'm not sure what to do

(30:02):
here.
What can you do?
Long story short, I ended upactually going to that other job
and I was there for a couple ofdays and I was like, oh my gosh
, this place sucks.
All my coworkers were talkingcrap about each other.
The role was like completelyundefined, my boss was like
unavailable and I was like thissucks.
So I called my old boss and Iwas like, hey, I think I made a

(30:23):
mistake.
She's like, okay, I'll see whatI can do.
So anyway, I get a full-timejob offer and it was like a much
higher salary and, all in all,between what I had originally
been getting paid there and whatI got when I went back to the
company.
It was probably about a 50%raise.

J.R. (30:43):
Dang, that's crazy.

Lindsey (30:45):
Yeah, I felt like the prettiest girl at the dance.

J.R. (30:48):
So I'm hearing and correct me if I'm wrong doing research
and knowing your market ratesand if you can find out how much
other people are getting paidsimilar levels of experience or
fields, etc.
That I'm hearing is there'salways that concept of I had a

(31:08):
guest on the show who says likewhen you move jobs, you can
increase your salaryexponentially, as opposed to
staying at a company for a year,get a 3% increase and do that
for four years or five yearswhen you jump around you.
Naturally it's moreadvantageous to leapfrog that
way in terms of compensation.
So it seems like both thingshappened for you.
Is there anything else do youfeel like lended to that or

(31:31):
other things that people canconsider if they want to
increase their income?

Lindsey (31:35):
Absolutely.
I think tracking youraccomplishments throughout the
time at your job alwaysSomething I learned as a
recruiter that I've definitelytaken with me is just track what
you made the company, so anymoney you directly made for the
company, maybe money that yousaved for the company, so made
saved or achieved achievements.
So any job role is going tofall into at least one of those

(31:58):
three categories and being ableto track those are really the
only thing your boss cares about.
Like, your boss will not care.
The company does not care thatyou need more money If you say
like oh, my expenses haveincreased inflation like boo-hoo
, so is it for everybody else.
What did you do for the company?

J.R. (32:13):
Yeah, that's the other thing too is it's nice when your
role is close to money, forexample sales.
It's very easy to be like, yeah, I X revenue for the last year
or so, right.
But there are those roles thatare further removed from the
sale, I don't know.
Let's say software development,right, or something even
further down the line likeadministrative work.

(32:38):
You can't really put a dollaramount to that, but I think the
point still stands if you cantrack the value add.
This is actually something thatI mentioned to Clark when he was
on the episode, because Ilearned this from him.
He's very spreadsheetsorganized and he told me like
early on when I worked, there islike always track the things
that you do for the company, ofcourse, if you can put it in
dollar amounts, but also justlike keeping track of what
you've done.
And then when you come tonegotiations, that's more

(33:00):
powerful than just being, likeyou said, oh, inflation, and oh,
it's been a year, please giveme my extra money, right.
It's a better argument to say,here's exactly what I've done
over the past year, here's whatI've achieved, here's what I've
gone beyond the expectations, etcetera, and that's going to
give you a better advantage inthat negotiation.

Lindsey (33:18):
Yeah, that's great advice from Clark.

J.R. (33:20):
Yeah, that advice paid dividends for a long time.
So shout out to Clark again.
I bet it still is.
Yeah for sure, and I alwaysgive people the same advice.
Okay, personal finance, let'sget into it.
Why is it so important to you?
To anyone it might beself-evident, but I'm curious if
you had another perspective orwhat you wanted to phrase.

Lindsey (33:40):
It's so important to me because money is something that
, honestly, shouldn't matter,like it's not the most important
thing, is something thathonestly, shouldn't matter, like
it's not the most importantthing.
However, if you have it and youfeel comfortable with it, it
makes everything else a littlebit easier and you can focus on
what really matters, like yourfamily or your relationships or

(34:00):
your health or whatever.

J.R. (34:02):
As a personal finance enthusiast coach money coach,
investment coach what are somethings that you were surprised
to learn about as you werelearning about personal finance?

Lindsey (34:13):
The thing that comes to mind most is this was far
before I was interested inpersonal finance.
I was lucky enough that myparents, particularly my mom,
taught me a lot about personalfinance and money when I was
growing up, and the thing shetold me all the time I swear I'm
going to get to the answer tothis question the thing she told

(34:33):
me all the time was pay offyour credit card in full and on
time every month.
And I was like mom everyoneknows that, but like I got to
college and I remember myroommate saying that her parents
told her that you shouldn't payoff your credit card every
month because it would make yourcredit score go down.

(34:55):
And to this day, that justmakes me cringe so much because,
first of all, it's wrong.
Second of all, it's so damagingto, I think, particularly
people who don't have a lot offinancial literacy and so
therefore may not have a goodgrasp on their money, regardless

(35:16):
of how much they make.
And I just I hate that that's amyth because it makes credit
card companies rich, not people.

J.R. (35:24):
It's funny you say that because I learned the same thing
.
Okay, I didn't learn the samething from my mom, but I found
out later on.
I learned from my econ teacherin high school.
She's like, yeah, I pay off mycredit card every month, and so
that was my first introductioninto how credit works.
And so I was like, okay, I'lldo that.
And then later on, after Istarted getting into finance, I
was like wait, mom, why wouldyou not pay it off each month?

(35:47):
And she had the samemisconception, so it's not on
her.
It was just like the lack ofeducation that goes around.
So you're right, I think thatwas a common thing that people
just get wrong.

Lindsey (35:57):
Yeah, because it's not.
I mean, what's more importantto you?
Your credit score or how muchmoney you're paying a credit
card company for no reason?

J.R. (36:09):
Are there any general approaches, strategies or
mindsets that you think arehelpful?
When approaching this topic, Ido want to get into a lot more
tactical things like what peoplecan do, but just starting off
with general approaches orstrategies you think are helpful
, the biggest overarching thingis spend less than you make.

Lindsey (36:24):
I know that's not easy for everyone, but if you can
master that, if you can spendless than you make and invest
the difference, you'll be fine.

J.R. (36:35):
I got that from Personal.

Lindsey (36:37):
Finance Club, by the way.
I mean I always said that, butthat's like their whole thing.

J.R. (36:41):
So shout out to Personal Finance Club.
There's this author who hasbeen doing money for 30, 40
years and it's the same thing,which is spend less than you
make, invest and save thedifference, etc.
And another little caveat isthe reason why you don't have
more saved up is the differencebetween you and your ego.

(37:02):
If you had less of an ego withmoney meaning you feel so
compelled to spend money and youcan just lower your ego so that
you don't feel a need to buythose material things you would
have a lot more in savings andor investing Something along the
lines.

Lindsey (37:16):
I actually think that is also a common misconception
about why people don't have alot of money.
I think a lot of people,particularly millennials I don't
know about Gen Z, butparticularly millennials are
like oh, I don't know, I likedon't spend a lot of money on
things, like I don't buyexpensive clothes or go on fancy
vacations, and they think that,like, buying expensive things

(37:42):
is what is where all their moneygoes.
But really, what I've foundwith millennials is the thing
that really eats them alive iseating out.
If you actually track how muchmoney you're spending on eating
out or like DoorDash or otherconvenience things, or buying
things from, like Instagram ads,slash, amazon or whatever, that

(38:05):
is where I've seen most peoplespend a lot of their money.
Additionally, I also don't thinkI think everybody thinks I need
to save more money.
I need to save more money.
Well, yes, you do, but it'sreally.
You need to invest the money,you need to help it grow.
And the reason that you need toinvest the money you need to
help it grow and the reason thatyou need to do that is not just

(38:26):
to make more money, but because, if you have a saving account,
inflation is eating your money.
So what inflation does is ittakes away.
I think on average over the past40 years it's been like three
percent, and inflation is a hugebuzzword right now.
But what inflation does inessence is makes it so that if
you have a100 in your savingsaccount and right now that could

(38:48):
buy you a TV, in one yearyou'll have to have $103 to buy
a TV and in another year you'llhave to have $106 and some
change because it's going tocompound on each other anyway.
So if you don't invest, you're,if you just keep your money in

(39:09):
a savings account, you're stilllosing money.
So I think something that keptme from investing was I was like
, oh, like I'm scared to lose mymoney, but like I'm gonna lose
it in the bank anyway, and thatwas was when I was like oh shit,
let me just start investing.

J.R. (39:23):
Yeah, I like you mentioned that.
And now it brings up anotherelement to this because,
depending on their stage inpersonal finance, it determines
their strategy at that point.
Because what you're mentioningis someone who's, let's say,
they're good with money and theyare saving money, which is
great, and their expenses-ishare low, given they don't eat

(39:45):
out too much or whatever, butthey're like how do I get to
that next step of increasing mynet worth and having a
six-figure net worth, orsomething like that, and like
what you're saying, you have tofind smart ways to invest your
money or put it in the rightplaces so that it can grow
without you thinking about it,and basically just investing
right, so not taking a step back.

(40:08):
For people who aren't even atthat point yet.
When I do some financialcoaching with friends, it's like
some of them might be in heavycredit card debt and or student
loan debt and obviously theirinvesting is they're not in that
stage yet.
Let's say, they don't have abunch of loans or credit card
debt, but they just don't have ahandle on their spending.
And so another key thing that Itell people is you need to
visualize and track everything.
It's like when you're trying togo on a nutrition journey or

(40:30):
you're trying to lose weight orwhatever you're trying to do,
step one is always to visualizeand track everything to see,
make everything transparent,because how can you know where
your money's going if you don'tneed?
Or how can you do better withyour money if you don't even
know where it's going?
Same thing with your nutrition.
It's like how can you say I'mdoing all the right things and
I'm not losing weight?
Well, do you know how muchyou're eating?
And so that's usually the stepbefore that is get some sort of

(40:55):
well.
I used to recommend Mint, butnow they imploded.
But some sort of financialtracking app or you can do a
spreadsheet, like what Lindsaysaid, like you used to send out
like a spreadsheet, and it's soeasy.
You just put in expenses,income etc, and it's the same
thing.
You don't need a fancy software.
But I think, for I have a lotof friends who don't even have
that step down.
They're in the.
I have some credit card debtand maybe I need to get rid of

(41:17):
that, but I also don't even knowwhat my money's doing.
I just have money coming in andthen I have money coming out
and it's kind of like in the airand I'm like well, there's your
problem.
You need to visualize it,because how can you budget it if
you don't even know where it'sgoing?

Lindsey (41:28):
100%.
You have to know where you'restarting from.
It's like trying to use GoogleMaps, but Google Maps like
doesn't know where you are.
So how is it going to tell youto get to where you want to go
if you don't know where you are?

J.R. (41:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Do you have any thoughts ortips on, let's just say,
budgeting?
So in the example of okay, Idon't have fancy cars and I
don't really go on vacations,but why do I still feel like I
don't have enough money?
And then they try to focus ongetting a higher paying job.
But it's like, even if that youand I both know even if you
have a high paying job, you canhave high expenses, so it

(42:01):
doesn't mean you're actuallygoing to have any real net worth
.
But that aside, for the normalperson or an average person
situation, how should theyapproach budgeting or, I don't
know, patching up the leaky holein their bucket?

Lindsey (42:14):
Oh, 100% Starting with what you said, marlo is figuring
out where all their money'sgoing.
I recommend doing it on aspreadsheet, not even an app,
because it forces you to gothrough every single transaction
that you've had and you have todo it.
You have to look at it and fora lot of people they're like oh,

(42:34):
like that's so much anxiety andI'm like well, do you have more
anxiety when you're thinkingabout I'm losing all this money
but I don't know.
So filling out a spreadsheetthat tracks all your spending
and income over the past threemonths and then comparing it,
seeing where your leaks are, butalso thinking about what's

(42:55):
important to you.
So when you're thinking aboutyour life priorities, what's
important For me it's health,it's my faith in God, it's my
family.
Those are, like my top threepriorities.
Oh and yeah, I already saidhealth.
So your money is a reflection ofyour priorities and you're kind

(43:20):
of voting with your dollars.
You know how people do thatwith small business or whatever.
You're doing that with your ownmoney.
So if you say thatrelationships are important to
me, then maybe restaurants islike a higher thing on your
budget list because you go to alot of restaurants with your
friends.
But and let's say that you'respending a ton of money on, like

(43:44):
, a gym membership but you nevergo and health maybe isn't that
important to you, which is fine,but maybe taking that off your
list.
So I haven't found that likereally strict budgeting.
Oh, I'm going to spend $200here, $400 there.
I haven't found that that'svery effective because it's very
difficult to do and thingsalways come up.

(44:05):
I find what's more effective isgetting your priorities
straight and kind of seeingmaybe what one or two categories
I can spend less in to startpatching up these holes because
they don't meet my priorities.

J.R. (44:22):
Definitely Two references psychology of money and again
Rumi said these I'll teach youto be rich.
I think what you're mentioningis something conscious spending,
something I lean heavily into.
It's like a form of budgeting,but it's what Lindsay just said,
which is figuring out what'simportant to you.
Spending a lot on that, cuttingback mercilessly on things that
are not important to you andthat will give you more bang for

(44:43):
your buck On top of that money,is very emotional, because one
budgeting thing or how peoplespend their money is not gonna
be the same for each person.
So you have to make decisionsthat feel good to you and feel
right for you.
It's not just oh, give me yourcheckbook and I'll show you
exactly how to spend.
No, that's not.

(45:08):
You need to know what works foryou and your situation and what
feels right.
So I think, don't undercut theemotional side of money too.

Lindsey (45:11):
So yeah, you know what lives rent free in my head that
I've never told you, marlo, Iremember we had like first met
and we were talking about money,which is looking back.
It's so funny that we weredoing that.

J.R. (45:23):
Normal conversation.

Lindsey (45:24):
Normal conversation and I remember you saying like, oh
yeah, my education budget isunlimited, I'll spend as much as
it takes on that.
And then you said there wasanother budget that you had that
was very limited and I was like, huh, an unlimited budget in
any category.
I guess education is useful andI've thought it's lived rent

(45:46):
free in my head ever since.
And that's like why I spent somuch money on educating myself,
particularly in business, wasbecause I was like this always
pays off in very tangible waysNice, I love that.

J.R. (46:01):
Thank you for telling me that, Because I see it now that
you say that I always saweducation as an investment.
And if you knew the ROI ofinvestment was good, why would
you not invest into it?
And so me, being my just out ofcollege early 20s self, I'm
like I obviously want to befilthy rich.
So how do I get there?
It's aside from just pickingstocks, it's investing into
myself.

(46:21):
So I think that get there, it'saside from just picking stocks,
it's investing into myself.
So I think that's where thatmindset came from was obviously
I need to grow my knowledge, myskill set, so I need to invest.
So my mindset was obviously Idon't have unlimited money, but
the point was it's veryimportant to me, so I will throw
it in if I feel like it's worthit.
Obviously, I don't makereckless financial decisions.

(46:43):
I'm not buying every singlecourse out there, but I'm glad
to hear that because that stillis true for me today.
I'm like it's education, it'sinvestment to myself, definitely
worth it.

Lindsey (46:53):
For reference, that conversation, just so everybody
knows, was like nine years ago,so it was that impactful.

J.R. (46:59):
Nice, Compounded, compounded.
See this way.
We have something like this,like this show, just sharing
information.
It could impact someone foryears to come right.
My last question on this topicwas how does one achieve a 100k
net worth by the age of 26 orrecently after college, and why
net worth versus income?

Lindsey (47:16):
Okay, can I be honest?
The way to do it is just tohave rich parents.

J.R. (47:22):
Thanks, Lindsay so helpful .
Let me just go find new parentsand just become rich.
Let's scrap this one.

Lindsey (47:30):
Let's just scrap it, no , but so I mean honestly the
reason I did it.
I had a lot of privilege, likemy parents did pay for me to go
to school.
I worked in school as well andI got scholarships, but my
parents paid for it for the mostpart, and so that's how I was

(47:51):
able to start, because I wasn'tin a hole.
However, I also made lookingback for being like 22 years old
, even in college I was verywise with my finances.
I never went into credit carddebt because I was always like
working and keeping and notspending a ton.
I lived with roommates allthroughout my 20s.

(48:13):
I don't know if that's it feelsvery normal for people here in
Southern California to do, but Ialways I mean I lived with
people.
I lived with at least threeother girls for five years after
college before I got married,and then I invested and I
honestly didn't spend a lot ofmoney, like I didn't have credit

(48:36):
card debt or student loans topay.
So it was a mixture ofprivilege but also being
relatively wise with my moneyand investing was honestly the
biggest part of it.

J.R. (48:48):
Nice, cool.
Well, if you don't have richparents, like Lindsay, the least
you could do is invest inlearning as soon as you can
compound that information right?

Lindsey (48:59):
Yeah, they're not rich for their record, but it was a
funny joke.
But this episode sucks now.

J.R. (49:04):
No, no, no, it's all good.
I liked it.
Okay, I just want to becognizant of time.
Are you okay with time?

Lindsey (49:09):
Yeah, I have had more minutes.

J.R. (49:10):
Okay, cool, then it's super rapid fire.
Then First question, billboardquestion.
If you could put up a sign formillions of people to see?

Lindsey (49:36):
non-commercial, what would it say?
Metaphorical?
I've been thinking about thisquestion ever since I read it on
your list and I was hoping thatyou weren't going to ask out.
Cooking also saves your health,because you know you're not
eating out all this food, thatyou don't know what's in it or
whatever, and it builds yourconfidence.
So learn how to cook something.

J.R. (49:53):
If you could redo one thing, what would you do
differently?
Or if you could give youryounger self advice, what would
that be?

Lindsey (49:59):
I honestly wish I would have taken myself a little bit
less seriously in my 20sno-transcript you've ever made

(50:31):
in either time money, energy, etcetera.
Cop out answer.
But that course that I got for.

J.R. (50:39):
That helped you start your financial business, that one
actually, yeah yep, that oneokay, since you're a money
person, favorite recent purchasea relatively cheap purchase
that has impacted your life themost in the last six months.
Six months, relatively cheaptime frame.
Could be different, justbasically a relatively cheap
purchase that you're like.
This added value to my life youknow what?

Lindsey (51:02):
the book for Dummies.
I bought that in like 2018 or2019.
And that is where I got thatthing about inflationating your
money and that's what kicked mein the butt to start investing
and also taught me about indexfunds and that has paid for
itself so many times over and itwas like maybe $10 or $20.

J.R. (51:28):
Dang.
Now that you talk aboutinvesting, I wish we could have
gotten into index funds and allthat stuff.
Well, part two, if it works out, last rapid fire favorite books
, movies, videos, articles orany media that you share or
recommend the most.

Lindsey (51:37):
There's this book.
I think I told you about itbefore.
It's called Off to Be theWizard.
You can link it in the shownotes.
Scott Meyer is the author.
It is so good and nobody haswatched it.
I mean, nobody's listened to itor read it.
It's so good.
Also, travelers on Netflix.

(51:59):
Nobody's watched that show andit's like one of my favorite
shows of all time and I don'tknow why it's not popular.

J.R. (52:02):
How far have you gotten in this year?
Have you read every book in theOff to Be the Wizard series?

Lindsey (52:07):
Yeah, I read every one, but the first one is by far the
best.

J.R. (52:10):
Well, for sure, yeah, I was gonna say because I think
I've read every one too and yeah, it's so good.

Lindsey (52:15):
Because it's so good it's so good, it's a good rec.

J.R. (52:19):
Cool, all right, we've made it to the end again.
A super rapid fire.
I think we definitely need apart two eventually.

Lindsey (52:25):
But ending questions, so life, giving me life and also
my in-laws who watch my babyduring the day while I work, and

(52:52):
they're just so helpful, soshout out to all of them.

J.R. (52:56):
That's so nice.
Do you have any final ask fromthe audience or any final
takeaways you'd like them tohave from this conversation?

Lindsey (53:03):
Wait, oh my gosh.
I'm such a terrible person.
I forgot to thank Jesus forsaving my life.

J.R. (53:11):
You know everyone else.
There's this guy named Jesus,you know he's okay.
He's crying in the corner.

Lindsey (53:17):
He's like poor Jesus.
I'm sorry, what was your lastquestion?

J.R. (53:21):
Any final ask from the audience or any final takeaways
you'd like them to have.

Lindsey (53:26):
I Will Teach you To Be Rich by Ramit Sethi.
It's the only book you're goingto need to actually get rich.
Also, jesus, if you're thinkingabout it.

J.R. (53:36):
Money, jesus, yeah, package deals.
Jesus is more important, butJesus is like finally, I got
that shout out, I got thepriority ranking.

Lindsey (53:44):
I got that shout out I got the priority ranking.

J.R. (53:45):
I got that shout out.
Cool.
All right, Lindsay, thank you.
Where can people find you ifthey want to check out what
you're up to or connect oranything like that?
I know you're not really onsocial media anymore, but do you
have any places people couldfind you?

Lindsey (53:57):
Yeah, people can email me.
You can just send them.
Yeah, you can LinkedIn me aswell.
I'm on LinkedIn.
You can just look up my firstand last name.
I should be there smiling atyou.

J.R. (54:08):
All right, I'll link that as well.
Yeah, cool, all right, lindsay.
Thank you so much again.
I appreciate it.
Thank you for taking the time.
I know you have a busy schedule, having a baby and everything
and married life.
Yeah, it's, we definitely needto catch up soon, since it's
been a while.
But I'll do my final sign off.
So thank you guys for beinghere.
I really appreciate it.
Be sure to like, follow,subscribe everything else.

(54:29):
Leave Lindsay love in thecomments and a reminder to
always be kind to other people,especially yourself, and
remember that you can alwayslearn something from someone if
you take the time to listen.
So thank you for being here.
You.

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#53: Lindsey Nellessen - Salary Negotiations, Online Courses, and Achieving a $100k Net Worth in Your 20s

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#53: Lindsey Nellessen - Salary Negotiations, Online Courses, and Achieving a $100k Net Worth in Your 20s