July 14, 2025 • 27 mins
Finding the way back to feeling balanced again after tough times. "It is unbelievable when you just sit and watch what your thought patterns can do, whether it's based on fearful imaginings of the future, or fearful ruminations of the past, or regret..."#otherlivesareavailable #podcast #eastlondon #mentalhealth
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
123123 So when you woke up this morning, what were the first
things that came to mind? What were the problems you had
to solve? How did you sort of come into
focus this morning? I woke up and I was relieved
(00:21):
that I'd had a good night's sleep because I've been having
insomnia. So again, I was grateful to.
Yeah, to wake up, be alive and that had about 8 hours sleep.
Probably that's a good amount. Yeah, I know I'm very lucky.
Yeah, Yeah, very lucky. Because for a while I was only
getting about 45 minutes to an hour.
(00:41):
So I'm trying to instill a bit more gratitude into my daily
living these days. Sometimes for some people, I
know it's really difficult. Life can be incredibly
challenging. I've been going through some
challenges over the last few years and haven't always dealt
with them so well, but things are improving.
(01:04):
So I had an appointment with my psychiatrist this morning.
So that's pretty much I got up and tried to meditate, but I was
running a bit late, so I went straight to the psychiatrist
appointment. Yeah.
Gratitude, I suppose, was key this morning.
Yeah. When you say gratitude, how?
(01:26):
How do you frame that gratitude?Is it about small things?
Is it about big things? Is it about your life or is it
about things around you? In in general incredible
gratitude for my family. I still have my mum and dad
alive and they're I've got a good relationship with them.
(01:47):
I've got two brothers and a sister-in-law and nephew and
niece. So I also have a really good
relationship with all of them. So I volunteer at a cafe where
there's a lot of people who are enduring difficult circumstances
and I've got a lot of friends who are also enduring life
challenges and some of them havereally dysfunctional, difficult
(02:08):
family dynamics going on. So that has been brought to my
awareness quite a lot over the last, say, 3 or 4 years.
So I feel very grateful for my own personal circumstances, even
the difficult times which led tome not being able to work for
the last couple of years. But I can, I'm trying to sort of
(02:30):
see the bigger picture that thatsome of the obstacles that have
come up because of that have ledto different, different
opportunities and to me meeting other people in similar
situations as myself. And so I've formed connections
with people in the last few years I wouldn't normally have
had the opportunity to. My work have been incredibly
(02:51):
supportive of my situation as well.
So I'm incredibly grateful to them.
I'm a veterinary nurse and I've worked at the same veterinary
hospital for 27 years. And yeah, I feel very grateful
for them supporting me through my crisis, mental health crisis,
but also grateful, yeah, the bigger picture, the positive
(03:12):
things that happen in my, my, my, my peers life as well.
When you're in a difficult place, when times are tough, you
mentioned the fact that you met up with other people, you went
to a CAF where people were facing difficult challenges.
Is it, is it a positive thing tokind of be with other people who
(03:36):
who are also fighting difficult times?
Is that a supportive thing when you're all in it together, even
though you're in different, different crises?
I definitely have found it to beand also it gives me a
perspective a bit of a kick up the the the arse as well.
Because you can catastrophize and the mental suffering that
you add to an existing problem or presume it's going to get
(03:58):
worse or presume nobody else feels the same way as you do
about anything. So it's good to get that
perspective that you're not the only one enduring hardships,
you're not the only one that's maybe framing it in that way as
well. But it's also it's good to
realise that you've got things that you have taken for granted
(04:20):
and so to, to dwell and knows more rather than ruminating on
the things that have gone wrong or any mistakes that you might
have made. And but then it doesn't feel
very nice knowing that other people might be enduring more
difficult circumstances in you as well.
So then that brings a sort of cycle of guilt and shame that
and sadness for them as well. It's a bit, it's a bit of a
(04:42):
tricky situation as as well because you you don't like to
think, well, at least I've not got that situation because.
But that must help sometimes also it it's kind of a weird one
where you you like to compare toother people who go.
At least I'm not in that difficult circumstance.
But but that doesn't really helpyou think about your own
circumstance somehow. No, I suppose it, but it does
(05:03):
highlight to myself what I do have and to focus on that and
appreciate it far more. And is that sort of going back
to the gratitude? Thing yes, that's I suppose yes
I yeah, yeah, I think that is you're right it's the gratitude
cycle and. When you mentioned earlier about
only sleeping for 45 minutes a night, which sounds like
(05:25):
torture, was that a manifestation of just not being
able to get out of your own head, being able to get out of
your own thoughts? I think it was a few different
circumstances plus I'd I had a situation with a friend that was
very worried about. Plus also I was having
(05:46):
incredible horrible nightmares as well which wasn't helping.
So you you basically didn't wantto go to sleep.
Well, yeah, there is that huge thing because yeah, when I do go
to sleep, the nightmares are feeling trapped in them as well.
But was absolutely desperate forsleep as well.
But yeah, with more peaceful dreams would have been nice.
The nightmares have ceased up toa point.
(06:08):
They're still a bit surreal and strange, but yeah.
And my home nervous systems, it still does bit feel a bit short
to pieces. And as I'm discovering more and
more, we do sort of hold the trauma etcetera and stress in
our body. So I've been doing much better
after stopping looking at any devices for a couple of hours
(06:30):
before sleep. And I know the whole world knows
this and tells us all, but do wesometimes do it?
Not enough. And I went home to Scotland for
a couple of weeks and managed toput that into practice.
I'm still getting stressed and anxious about certain aspects of
my life, regarding my career andthe world in general.
I mean, I haven't even touched upon all the crises that are
going around in the world. I was going down lots of rabbit
(06:53):
holes and trying to educate myself on what was happening in
many parts of the world. But I realised that dwelling too
much in that meant that I was less equipped to look after
myself properly, was feeling very down and hopeless about
certain things, including my ownlife situation.
Plus it meant I wasn't able to help in my own sphere of
influence. So I'm trying to be, it's hard
(07:16):
because you don't want to look away.
And some people don't have the luxury of turning off from
difficult circumstances going inthe world.
But I've forced myself to detachfrom it a lot because it just
meant that, yeah, I wasn't really fit for purpose, for
anything. And I don't think we're, I don't
think we're designed to be fullyimmersed in what's going on in
(07:38):
the world of the fear inducing things all day every day.
But we are, yeah, exactly due tothose devices you talk about, we
carry around in our pockets something that connects us to
Everything, Everywhere, all the time.
This is it. And it's hard to look away
sometimes because you feel the the guilt.
You should be informed, but so informed.
(07:58):
And then there's lots of different, there's lots of
different versions of what's going on around the world.
So it's trying to get to the truth.
Misinformation. We're in a huge scary age of
misinformation and the AI type stuff.
Yeah, it's hard to know, to discern the truth and, and also
to discern what you should be making yourself aware of.
(08:19):
And I've got that quite a littlebit wrong in the last few years,
I think. When we talk about truth, then
we talk about trying to get things straight and know what's
what. Does that also relate to how you
have dealt with your own personal crisis?
Being true with yourself, tryingto work out what is true in your
(08:41):
thought process and not is that part of it.
Yeah, definitely. Because our thoughts, gosh, they
control so much of us and our emotions and how we feel about
things. And it is unbelievable when you
sort of just sit and watch what your thought patterns can do,
whether it's based on fearful imaginings of the future or
(09:07):
fearful ruminations of the past or regret.
I've got a lot of regret about alot of events in my life in
general plus over the last few years and I'm trying to stop
dwell on them because it's stopping me from moving forward.
It's harming my family as well because it's upsetting them to
(09:28):
see me being so upset. Sorry I'm not sure if I'm
answering the question very well, but.
No, no, no. It's.
Just good to get a straight answer out of me.
No, you're speaking beautifully.I'm really enjoying hearing what
what you have to say. You mentioned family, have
family. It's, it's family.
I mean, families are complicated, dynamic at any time
(09:52):
of life. Have have family been empathetic
and and have they been a source of strength through your
difficult times or have you had to in in some ways shield them
from what you're going through to make sure that they don't
worry too much? There was a period when I was
shielding my mother, etcetera from it, but I've then for a
(10:13):
long period not been able to shield her from it and I've
actually done her head in by going on about my problem.
Not badly, but but she, yeah, she's got a really amazing sense
of humour and she takes keeps taking the Mick out of me to try
and snap me out of the the depressive, yeah, ruminations.
So she gets me to able to laugh at myself.
That's great. And that does actually help.
(10:34):
She's like a little comedy genius, I'll be honest.
Brilliant. Yeah.
Keep her as a medicine. Yeah, this is it.
She's been instrumental in helping.
We should say that she now needsa psychiatrist herself just in
order to deal with me. But so, yeah, I have.
Yeah. And.
But yeah, there's also a relationship.
Well, that's good. Yeah.
Well, that's the yeah, that's brilliant.
(10:55):
And, and, and there is, there isa wisdom to mothers.
It took me years to work out andI was a bit reluctant to accept
it with my mum, but I was like, mums are always right.
It's really annoying, but they are they.
Are she does keep you see, I know you're not going to listen
to me. You're just going to ask my
opinion, do your own thing anyway.
But I am right about, you know, quite a few.
(11:16):
And she is. She is.
She's been right about a lot andstuff.
Yeah. Still stubborn at the age of 51,
trying to do go my own forge my own path.
That's not exactly worked out well in some aspects, but yeah,
you're right. Infinite wisdom.
When you work as a a vet or a veterinary assistant, you're
(11:37):
dealing with people all the time.
You're also dealing with animals.
But the people who come in must always be worried, essentially
about their animals. Yeah, that's right.
So it does take, you've got to always be mindful that there are
apparent aggression or there areapparent impatience or there are
apparent inappropriate reaction to anything is of course down to
(11:59):
the grief, concern, worry, anticipation that they might be
worried in terms of financial costs.
But also, yeah, that are we going to, are they going to
manage to get their version of the symptoms over to us in the
amount allotted time? And yeah, are we going to be
able to help their animal too, to their expectations?
So you've always got to remembernot to take it too personally
(12:22):
and to be mindful that it does affect people in all these
different ways. So, and in that role that you
you have, then you're managing other people's emotions.
Assembly, which isn't always easy, you're absolutely right.
And to, to try and be even even handed in how you deal with
them. And also make sure that you, the
(12:46):
language that you use isn't too,because of course, we, we don't
always remember anything under these situations.
And so trying to break it down into maybe layman terms, but
also if they want more than layman terms, appreciating that
they're just as intelligent as all the medical professionals
that are dealing with them. And they actually know their
animal and their condition at a point even better than us,
(13:10):
because they're focusing on thatanimal, they're focusing on that
condition. Whereas I suppose for us, we're
trying to be Jack of all trades.And so always to take what they
say with as much seriousness as you do the, the, the medical
professionals, because you don't, you can't miss anything.
The animals, of course, can't verbalize anything themselves.
So everything they say, even though it may not appear at the
(13:32):
time, if they if they are perhaps repeating themselves or
if you think that they're going off pieced, not necessarily.
And you have to take everything you say very seriously because
it could be the missing piece ofinformation or yeah, it could be
something we've not not occurredto us.
So. And I always get the impression
that animals are actually, what's the word?
(13:54):
They don't show a lot of the physical pain.
They're very what's the word? It's not dogged.
It's not determined. Yeah, animals are very stoic.
Yeah, some. Some of them are and some of
them aren't. Some of them, right?
OK, so some of them make quite a.
Fuss. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Some of them can be over egging it and and.
Oh, I love that. But yeah, they're acting up.
(14:15):
Yeah, acting up. There are as many animals that
are capable of doing that. Many dogs and cats.
They are. They are incredibly smart.
OK, so they're kind of like hypochondriacs.
Yeah, yeah, I think they've worked out that sometimes they
can get a little bit of extra fuss.
I have seen different dogs like faking A limp and then doing
swapping it to the. Other leg.
Oh, I love that. I've had friends who've animals
(14:35):
have done that as well. But you're right, a lot of them,
they're incredibly stoic. And so it, it, it's sometimes
difficult to, yeah, to determinewhat's going on with them
because. And like pain can manifest in so
many different ways. And there's all these sort of
telltale signs that like cats, for instance, there's facial
expressions, there's in rabbits,you can get this grimace of
(14:57):
pain. Cats, there's there's a certain
scale that you can work out to see from just like minute little
and differences in their face and their whiskers and their eye
position etcetera to work out. Because, because, because I
think it's always it's, it's, it's a bit of a generalisation,
but you know, when cats stare atyou, they're generally quite
poker faced. Yeah, that's right.
(15:18):
Exactly. Yeah, There's a lot going on
underneath there, but yeah. No idea what.
They're judging judging us and coming up with the conclusion
that we're perhaps inferior. But yeah, so they can be minute
these little these little differences in the expression.
But yeah, there is a lot of goodinformation thankfully, because
(15:39):
I think cats were considered small dogs for a long time and
weren't given. Manual Josie.
Like like historically. Yeah, historically kind of as in
just in terms of the it's, it's only in the last few different
decades that analgesia and cats within the veterinary medicine
has been considered. There's sort of been a long
standing tradition of the analogies in cats and dogs.
(16:05):
Perhaps has been missed, but. Forgive my.
Pain relief apologies. Right.
So and the differences in the way that the body synthesizes
different pain killing and drugsas well.
A difference between cats and dogs.
Oh, and there's, there's something interesting as well.
Things like paracetamol are incredibly toxic for cats.
(16:25):
So the owners that think, oh, I'm just going to medicate my
cat or dog with my own medication.
So yeah, which is why you shouldalways get, you know, get
veterinary recommendation about,you know, if you think you're
animals in pain should always get them assessed.
But yeah, they synthesize painkillers and other medication
differently. Do do you have certain animals
that you have kind of more connection with the empathy with
(16:48):
or like of, I mean, I'm sure professionally you have to be
good with everyone, but do you, are there certain animals you
basically like more than others treat their character?
I'm equal in the cats and dogs. I wouldn't be able to pick
between them. That's pretty bad.
Like, yeah, yeah. Because people are usually
either a dog person or a cat person.
Is it? I think usually in veterinary
it's it might be a bit more equal pants.
(17:09):
I think I do like donkeys. Oh, why?
Mind trying to? I don't know.
They're stoic. I mean, donkeys.
Yeah, they've historically, yeah, I think.
They've always when you go to other countries where donkeys
are used as labour, they have a hard life.
They have a really hard life. I remember reading a tale about
a donkey that was being used as a Sharpie type thing for people.
(17:31):
We were doing mountaineering type things and I think it was
just really sad case of a donkeythat had had so much on its back
because the person was bringing all luxury items that kind of
threw itself off of the the Cliff because it just was like,
according to the story anyway. But just remember reading this
sad tale that the donkeys reallyare.
(17:52):
Yeah. They've got across the world,
you're right. And because of their stoic
nature, that. Yeah.
There was a cat that just went past us.
We're we're, we're in a cafe, that garden.
A cat just walked past and without looking at it, you
reached out your hand. You knew it was there.
Oh yeah. And you just like sensed its
presence. So you're obviously, you've
(18:13):
obviously got that sixth animal sense the.
Peripheral vision there. Yeah.
Yeah. Missing out in a Cat
opportunity. Where's he going?
I missed. Him.
He's off somewhere. Off somewhere.
Did you always want to work withanimals?
Was that something that was a long held dream?
Did you fall into it? How did you become a veterinary
(18:34):
assistant? I back back in Scotland I went
straight from high school into working insurance, which was
dull as dishwater. Now, that is not a usual path to
veterinary. No, I I was not.
I was not assisted to that career whatsoever.
Why did you go into it? I think I was at that rebellious
(18:56):
stage where I didn't really wantto work that hard at school and
IA lot of people were going intobanking or insurance.
My two brothers had as well and I just thought, well, I don't
really fancy going to universityright now.
I just want to make a bit of money.
I don't know why. But anyway, so I just fell into
insurance but was not suited to it at all and became so
(19:18):
disillusioned with it. I became fixated and veterinary
and did lots of sort of part time stuff and evening reception
work at a private practice up there, plus volunteered for the
PDSA and the Scottish Preventionof Cruelty to Animals.
So I did a few different things.So you kind of knew what you
were going into because you eased yourself in with extra
(19:39):
work in your own time. Yeah, got used to it.
And you're like, this fits. This feels good.
And I found, I found the, the hospital that I work at now, the
Blue Cross and the Yellow Pages,that's how long ago it was in
London. I was coming down to visit my
granny and went for a, a day just to sort of see practice.
That's often what people trying to get into the veterinary world
would do, go and see practice. And back then it was 97.
(20:03):
There was no formal interviews. The the head nurse could see
that I was so keen and desperate, she said.
You want a job, We've got a student position coming now.
So that was it. Within a month I was moving from
Edinburgh to London, packed my suitcase and went great.
Yeah, that would happen that waynow.
But it's it's lovely that that human way that you got that, you
know, someone just said, yeah, she's got the right feel.
(20:24):
Yeah. It was just a meeting.
She was so keen. And it wasn't, it wasn't one of
hundreds of applications via e-mail.
It was just like here I am. This is it, Yeah.
Do you want the job? It's yours.
Certainly wouldn't happen that way.
And is the Blue Cross a single hospital?
Is a charity? What is the?
Blue it's a charity for people who are on means tested benefits
and so the the main 24 hour emergency hospital is in
(20:47):
Victoria. It's got a.
Victoria and London. Victoria London, yeah.
And the other, it's got a place in Hammersmith and Merton as
well, which is the 9 to 5 general clinic and there's also
one in Grimsby as well at, at ata 24 hour hospital in Grimsby.
But also they've got rehoming and adoption centres across the
country as well. But they've also got a mobile
(21:09):
clinic that we've got some connection with in Ireland.
But it's just the veterinary side of it is different.
Although we will see some other animals from the rewind centres
if they do have any complaints. But it's quite separate.
It's just the veterinary hospitals are there for people
in London on means tested benefits who are unable to
afford their veterinary fees. So you moved to London from
Scotland for the job? Yes.
(21:32):
Was living in London part of it?Did you just have to live in
London because that's where the job was because there wasn't a
Blue Cross in Scotland or where you where you drawn South and
like give it a go? My granny was part of the draw
because she was living down hereas well, but also trying to get
it up in Scotland. It was difficult because you
have to have the experience, which is why I was doing the
(21:53):
various bits and pieces. But because it's because a lot
of people want to get into the veterinary profession, or maybe
back then they did. I'm not quite so sure if it's
the same now, but because there's quite, yeah, it's not,
it's not exactly an easy profession.
People's expectations are quite high.
Veterinary fees are quite high. When you say a lot of burnout
(22:14):
when? So why is it not easy?
Why is there burnout? What's what's?
What's the pressures? I suppose the pressures is well,
keeping everybody happy as you know the rising cost of
absolutely everything. So it's the people, not the
animals, which is where the pressure is.
Both. Both.
But yeah, the the mental health crisis is quite high within the
(22:35):
veterinary profession. That's interesting, I didn't
know that. Vets do feel an awful lot of
pressure to, you know, to save everybody and, and, but to do
that for the amount of money that people want to pay.
We've got an NHS so we're used to not paying for our health
care. But so then when you get hit
with a vet bill, people will analyse it and think that
(22:56):
they're just being ripped off, but they're not realising that
medical care costs an awful lot of money.
In other parts of the world, of course you have to pay for that.
So you've got more of an understanding and might have
insurance. Whereas here some people do get
pet insurance out because they are mindful that the costs are
incredibly high and they want tocover themselves for it.
But it can sometimes come as a bit of a shock to people,
(23:18):
especially as everything is rising anyway.
So I think vets come under a lotof pressure because there's a
lot of people on forums or, you know, TV programmes or radio
shows that are often lambasting veterinary fees, but they don't
actually always realise. Because it is expensive.
I mean, I don't have a pet, but I understand from big friends of
mine who do have a pet that you don't want your pet to get sick
(23:40):
and also that the insurance of apet is also expensive.
It's just the way it is. Yeah, vets are incurring like
expensive veterinary fees to go to university to study for a
very long time. So you're paying for that
knowledge. You've got high overhead costs
of some of the practices if you've got the up to date
(24:01):
radiography equipment, so that'sX-ray.
If you've got facilities where you're able to carry out lots of
diagnostic testing, that all costs a lot of money.
So people have got to realise that where you're taking their
animal, there is high overhead costs, so that's going to factor
in as well. The drugs cost a lot of money as
well. The expertise, yeah.
So going back to where you are now with your life, is the
(24:26):
veterinary world going to be part of your future?
I hope so. I was hoping to perhaps do it
part time plus then and explore other options.
I'm not getting any younger and it's quite a physical job and
I've been volunteering at a Cafeand doing other volunteering
elsewhere and so it's starting to broaden my horizons a little
bit into some of the skills. Hopefully they've got our
(24:48):
transferable and so we'd like totry explore other things, but
while still keeping my hand in either part time or voluntary
basis and I would like to still stay connected.
So you've got like an open future with options and, you
know. Yes, Yeah, Yeah.
Hopefully. Yes.
Yeah, Yeah. Sorry.
(25:09):
Yeah. I'd have been to interrupt you
there. No, no, no, I don't interrupt
you. So that's me putting out the
gratitude there again. Yeah.
An open future where I'd like toperhaps try other avenues as
well. Yeah.
When I cycle past you, you had your eyes closed.
You were sat on the pavement by a bus stop.
The sun was shining. We just taking in a moment to
(25:32):
gather your thoughts what what was going on in your mind with
your eyes closed there by the by, by the by the bus stop.
I was trying to do that. The whole everyone's banging on
about being present in the moment, they're always going on
about it, but it's imperative and I'll be honest, it does
actually help when you're not onthe devices and you're present
and like being aware of your surroundings.
It's far safer. Also, it is amazing with
(25:53):
different opportunities or you might see sometimes you see like
a like a dog that's been separated from their from their
person. Somebody like might drop
something like it's, it's betterfor your awareness for crossing
the road. You might see someone that you
recognise to connect with. That's often happened.
It's unbelievable just being more present and not up in my
mind like ruminating or worryingor because some of the some of
(26:16):
the the thought patterns are so useless.
It's just unbelievable when you observe your mind.
So just like taking in nature, just taking in the beauty, even
in the I know it's, it's so cliched.
And I'm, I'm sometimes getting really annoyed when people keep
saying be in the present moment.I'm thinking you get in the
freaking present moment. It's not always that possible.
OK. But when you actually do it,
(26:37):
yeah. It, it, it can, it can make a
huge difference. Yeah, yeah.
Perhaps if I'd been looking downat my phone, not like sitting
trying to meditate with my face in the sun, you might not have
thought, Oh right, I'll go and ask that person.
You're right. Never know, just you're right.
I probably would have passed youby.
Yeah, this is it. But just being aware of your
surroundings, I think. Yeah, from a safety point of
(27:00):
view and from an interest point of view, yeah, it affords many
possibilities. Not always, I know, but yeah,
yeah, there's something in it, Yeah.
123123 So when you woke up this morning, what were the first
things that came to mind? What were the problems you had
to solve? How did you sort of come into
focus this morning? I woke up and I was relieved
(00:21):
that I'd had a good night's sleep because I've been having
insomnia. So again, I was grateful to.
Yeah, to wake up, be alive and that had about 8 hours sleep.
Probably that's a good amount. Yeah, I know I'm very lucky.
Yeah, Yeah, very lucky. Because for a while I was only
getting about 45 minutes to an hour.
(00:41):
So I'm trying to instill a bit more gratitude into my daily
living these days. Sometimes for some people, I
know it's really difficult. Life can be incredibly
challenging. I've been going through some
challenges over the last few years and haven't always dealt
with them so well, but things are improving.
(01:04):
So I had an appointment with my psychiatrist this morning.
So that's pretty much I got up and tried to meditate, but I was
running a bit late, so I went straight to the psychiatrist
appointment. Yeah.
Gratitude, I suppose, was key this morning.
Yeah. When you say gratitude, how?
(01:26):
How do you frame that gratitude?Is it about small things?
Is it about big things? Is it about your life or is it
about things around you? In in general incredible
gratitude for my family. I still have my mum and dad
alive and they're I've got a good relationship with them.
(01:47):
I've got two brothers and a sister-in-law and nephew and
niece. So I also have a really good
relationship with all of them. So I volunteer at a cafe where
there's a lot of people who are enduring difficult circumstances
and I've got a lot of friends who are also enduring life
challenges and some of them havereally dysfunctional, difficult
(02:08):
family dynamics going on. So that has been brought to my
awareness quite a lot over the last, say, 3 or 4 years.
So I feel very grateful for my own personal circumstances, even
the difficult times which led tome not being able to work for
the last couple of years. But I can, I'm trying to sort of
(02:30):
see the bigger picture that thatsome of the obstacles that have
come up because of that have ledto different, different
opportunities and to me meeting other people in similar
situations as myself. And so I've formed connections
with people in the last few years I wouldn't normally have
had the opportunity to. My work have been incredibly
(02:51):
supportive of my situation as well.
So I'm incredibly grateful to them.
I'm a veterinary nurse and I've worked at the same veterinary
hospital for 27 years. And yeah, I feel very grateful
for them supporting me through my crisis, mental health crisis,
but also grateful, yeah, the bigger picture, the positive
(03:12):
things that happen in my, my, my, my peers life as well.
When you're in a difficult place, when times are tough, you
mentioned the fact that you met up with other people, you went
to a CAF where people were facing difficult challenges.
Is it, is it a positive thing tokind of be with other people who
(03:36):
who are also fighting difficult times?
Is that a supportive thing when you're all in it together, even
though you're in different, different crises?
I definitely have found it to beand also it gives me a
perspective a bit of a kick up the the the arse as well.
Because you can catastrophize and the mental suffering that
you add to an existing problem or presume it's going to get
(03:58):
worse or presume nobody else feels the same way as you do
about anything. So it's good to get that
perspective that you're not the only one enduring hardships,
you're not the only one that's maybe framing it in that way as
well. But it's also it's good to
realise that you've got things that you have taken for granted
(04:20):
and so to, to dwell and knows more rather than ruminating on
the things that have gone wrong or any mistakes that you might
have made. And but then it doesn't feel
very nice knowing that other people might be enduring more
difficult circumstances in you as well.
So then that brings a sort of cycle of guilt and shame that
and sadness for them as well. It's a bit, it's a bit of a
(04:42):
tricky situation as as well because you you don't like to
think, well, at least I've not got that situation because.
But that must help sometimes also it it's kind of a weird one
where you you like to compare toother people who go.
At least I'm not in that difficult circumstance.
But but that doesn't really helpyou think about your own
circumstance somehow. No, I suppose it, but it does
(05:03):
highlight to myself what I do have and to focus on that and
appreciate it far more. And is that sort of going back
to the gratitude? Thing yes, that's I suppose yes
I yeah, yeah, I think that is you're right it's the gratitude
cycle and. When you mentioned earlier about
only sleeping for 45 minutes a night, which sounds like
(05:25):
torture, was that a manifestation of just not being
able to get out of your own head, being able to get out of
your own thoughts? I think it was a few different
circumstances plus I'd I had a situation with a friend that was
very worried about. Plus also I was having
(05:46):
incredible horrible nightmares as well which wasn't helping.
So you you basically didn't wantto go to sleep.
Well, yeah, there is that huge thing because yeah, when I do go
to sleep, the nightmares are feeling trapped in them as well.
But was absolutely desperate forsleep as well.
But yeah, with more peaceful dreams would have been nice.
The nightmares have ceased up toa point.
(06:08):
They're still a bit surreal and strange, but yeah.
And my home nervous systems, it still does bit feel a bit short
to pieces. And as I'm discovering more and
more, we do sort of hold the trauma etcetera and stress in
our body. So I've been doing much better
after stopping looking at any devices for a couple of hours
(06:30):
before sleep. And I know the whole world knows
this and tells us all, but do wesometimes do it?
Not enough. And I went home to Scotland for
a couple of weeks and managed toput that into practice.
I'm still getting stressed and anxious about certain aspects of
my life, regarding my career andthe world in general.
I mean, I haven't even touched upon all the crises that are
going around in the world. I was going down lots of rabbit
(06:53):
holes and trying to educate myself on what was happening in
many parts of the world. But I realised that dwelling too
much in that meant that I was less equipped to look after
myself properly, was feeling very down and hopeless about
certain things, including my ownlife situation.
Plus it meant I wasn't able to help in my own sphere of
influence. So I'm trying to be, it's hard
(07:16):
because you don't want to look away.
And some people don't have the luxury of turning off from
difficult circumstances going inthe world.
But I've forced myself to detachfrom it a lot because it just
meant that, yeah, I wasn't really fit for purpose, for
anything. And I don't think we're, I don't
think we're designed to be fullyimmersed in what's going on in
(07:38):
the world of the fear inducing things all day every day.
But we are, yeah, exactly due tothose devices you talk about, we
carry around in our pockets something that connects us to
Everything, Everywhere, all the time.
This is it. And it's hard to look away
sometimes because you feel the the guilt.
You should be informed, but so informed.
(07:58):
And then there's lots of different, there's lots of
different versions of what's going on around the world.
So it's trying to get to the truth.
Misinformation. We're in a huge scary age of
misinformation and the AI type stuff.
Yeah, it's hard to know, to discern the truth and, and also
to discern what you should be making yourself aware of.
(08:19):
And I've got that quite a littlebit wrong in the last few years,
I think. When we talk about truth, then
we talk about trying to get things straight and know what's
what. Does that also relate to how you
have dealt with your own personal crisis?
Being true with yourself, tryingto work out what is true in your
(08:41):
thought process and not is that part of it.
Yeah, definitely. Because our thoughts, gosh, they
control so much of us and our emotions and how we feel about
things. And it is unbelievable when you
sort of just sit and watch what your thought patterns can do,
whether it's based on fearful imaginings of the future or
(09:07):
fearful ruminations of the past or regret.
I've got a lot of regret about alot of events in my life in
general plus over the last few years and I'm trying to stop
dwell on them because it's stopping me from moving forward.
It's harming my family as well because it's upsetting them to
(09:28):
see me being so upset. Sorry I'm not sure if I'm
answering the question very well, but.
No, no, no. It's.
Just good to get a straight answer out of me.
No, you're speaking beautifully.I'm really enjoying hearing what
what you have to say. You mentioned family, have
family. It's, it's family.
I mean, families are complicated, dynamic at any time
(09:52):
of life. Have have family been empathetic
and and have they been a source of strength through your
difficult times or have you had to in in some ways shield them
from what you're going through to make sure that they don't
worry too much? There was a period when I was
shielding my mother, etcetera from it, but I've then for a
(10:13):
long period not been able to shield her from it and I've
actually done her head in by going on about my problem.
Not badly, but but she, yeah, she's got a really amazing sense
of humour and she takes keeps taking the Mick out of me to try
and snap me out of the the depressive, yeah, ruminations.
So she gets me to able to laugh at myself.
That's great. And that does actually help.
(10:34):
She's like a little comedy genius, I'll be honest.
Brilliant. Yeah.
Keep her as a medicine. Yeah, this is it.
She's been instrumental in helping.
We should say that she now needsa psychiatrist herself just in
order to deal with me. But so, yeah, I have.
Yeah. And.
But yeah, there's also a relationship.
Well, that's good. Yeah.
Well, that's the yeah, that's brilliant.
(10:55):
And, and, and there is, there isa wisdom to mothers.
It took me years to work out andI was a bit reluctant to accept
it with my mum, but I was like, mums are always right.
It's really annoying, but they are they.
Are she does keep you see, I know you're not going to listen
to me. You're just going to ask my
opinion, do your own thing anyway.
But I am right about, you know, quite a few.
(11:16):
And she is. She is.
She's been right about a lot andstuff.
Yeah. Still stubborn at the age of 51,
trying to do go my own forge my own path.
That's not exactly worked out well in some aspects, but yeah,
you're right. Infinite wisdom.
When you work as a a vet or a veterinary assistant, you're
(11:37):
dealing with people all the time.
You're also dealing with animals.
But the people who come in must always be worried, essentially
about their animals. Yeah, that's right.
So it does take, you've got to always be mindful that there are
apparent aggression or there areapparent impatience or there are
apparent inappropriate reaction to anything is of course down to
(11:59):
the grief, concern, worry, anticipation that they might be
worried in terms of financial costs.
But also, yeah, that are we going to, are they going to
manage to get their version of the symptoms over to us in the
amount allotted time? And yeah, are we going to be
able to help their animal too, to their expectations?
So you've always got to remembernot to take it too personally
(12:22):
and to be mindful that it does affect people in all these
different ways. So, and in that role that you
you have, then you're managing other people's emotions.
Assembly, which isn't always easy, you're absolutely right.
And to, to try and be even even handed in how you deal with
them. And also make sure that you, the
(12:46):
language that you use isn't too,because of course, we, we don't
always remember anything under these situations.
And so trying to break it down into maybe layman terms, but
also if they want more than layman terms, appreciating that
they're just as intelligent as all the medical professionals
that are dealing with them. And they actually know their
animal and their condition at a point even better than us,
(13:10):
because they're focusing on thatanimal, they're focusing on that
condition. Whereas I suppose for us, we're
trying to be Jack of all trades.And so always to take what they
say with as much seriousness as you do the, the, the medical
professionals, because you don't, you can't miss anything.
The animals, of course, can't verbalize anything themselves.
So everything they say, even though it may not appear at the
(13:32):
time, if they if they are perhaps repeating themselves or
if you think that they're going off pieced, not necessarily.
And you have to take everything you say very seriously because
it could be the missing piece ofinformation or yeah, it could be
something we've not not occurredto us.
So. And I always get the impression
that animals are actually, what's the word?
(13:54):
They don't show a lot of the physical pain.
They're very what's the word? It's not dogged.
It's not determined. Yeah, animals are very stoic.
Yeah, some. Some of them are and some of
them aren't. Some of them, right?
OK, so some of them make quite a.
Fuss. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Some of them can be over egging it and and.
Oh, I love that. But yeah, they're acting up.
(14:15):
Yeah, acting up. There are as many animals that
are capable of doing that. Many dogs and cats.
They are. They are incredibly smart.
OK, so they're kind of like hypochondriacs.
Yeah, yeah, I think they've worked out that sometimes they
can get a little bit of extra fuss.
I have seen different dogs like faking A limp and then doing
swapping it to the. Other leg.
Oh, I love that. I've had friends who've animals
(14:35):
have done that as well. But you're right, a lot of them,
they're incredibly stoic. And so it, it, it's sometimes
difficult to, yeah, to determinewhat's going on with them
because. And like pain can manifest in so
many different ways. And there's all these sort of
telltale signs that like cats, for instance, there's facial
expressions, there's in rabbits,you can get this grimace of
(14:57):
pain. Cats, there's there's a certain
scale that you can work out to see from just like minute little
and differences in their face and their whiskers and their eye
position etcetera to work out. Because, because, because I
think it's always it's, it's, it's a bit of a generalisation,
but you know, when cats stare atyou, they're generally quite
poker faced. Yeah, that's right.
(15:18):
Exactly. Yeah, There's a lot going on
underneath there, but yeah. No idea what.
They're judging judging us and coming up with the conclusion
that we're perhaps inferior. But yeah, so they can be minute
these little these little differences in the expression.
But yeah, there is a lot of goodinformation thankfully, because
(15:39):
I think cats were considered small dogs for a long time and
weren't given. Manual Josie.
Like like historically. Yeah, historically kind of as in
just in terms of the it's, it's only in the last few different
decades that analgesia and cats within the veterinary medicine
has been considered. There's sort of been a long
standing tradition of the analogies in cats and dogs.
(16:05):
Perhaps has been missed, but. Forgive my.
Pain relief apologies. Right.
So and the differences in the way that the body synthesizes
different pain killing and drugsas well.
A difference between cats and dogs.
Oh, and there's, there's something interesting as well.
Things like paracetamol are incredibly toxic for cats.
(16:25):
So the owners that think, oh, I'm just going to medicate my
cat or dog with my own medication.
So yeah, which is why you shouldalways get, you know, get
veterinary recommendation about,you know, if you think you're
animals in pain should always get them assessed.
But yeah, they synthesize painkillers and other medication
differently. Do do you have certain animals
that you have kind of more connection with the empathy with
(16:48):
or like of, I mean, I'm sure professionally you have to be
good with everyone, but do you, are there certain animals you
basically like more than others treat their character?
I'm equal in the cats and dogs. I wouldn't be able to pick
between them. That's pretty bad.
Like, yeah, yeah. Because people are usually
either a dog person or a cat person.
Is it? I think usually in veterinary
it's it might be a bit more equal pants.
(17:09):
I think I do like donkeys. Oh, why?
Mind trying to? I don't know.
They're stoic. I mean, donkeys.
Yeah, they've historically, yeah, I think.
They've always when you go to other countries where donkeys
are used as labour, they have a hard life.
They have a really hard life. I remember reading a tale about
a donkey that was being used as a Sharpie type thing for people.
(17:31):
We were doing mountaineering type things and I think it was
just really sad case of a donkeythat had had so much on its back
because the person was bringing all luxury items that kind of
threw itself off of the the Cliff because it just was like,
according to the story anyway. But just remember reading this
sad tale that the donkeys reallyare.
(17:52):
Yeah. They've got across the world,
you're right. And because of their stoic
nature, that. Yeah.
There was a cat that just went past us.
We're we're, we're in a cafe, that garden.
A cat just walked past and without looking at it, you
reached out your hand. You knew it was there.
Oh yeah. And you just like sensed its
presence. So you're obviously, you've
(18:13):
obviously got that sixth animal sense the.
Peripheral vision there. Yeah.
Yeah. Missing out in a Cat
opportunity. Where's he going?
I missed. Him.
He's off somewhere. Off somewhere.
Did you always want to work withanimals?
Was that something that was a long held dream?
Did you fall into it? How did you become a veterinary
(18:34):
assistant? I back back in Scotland I went
straight from high school into working insurance, which was
dull as dishwater. Now, that is not a usual path to
veterinary. No, I I was not.
I was not assisted to that career whatsoever.
Why did you go into it? I think I was at that rebellious
(18:56):
stage where I didn't really wantto work that hard at school and
IA lot of people were going intobanking or insurance.
My two brothers had as well and I just thought, well, I don't
really fancy going to universityright now.
I just want to make a bit of money.
I don't know why. But anyway, so I just fell into
insurance but was not suited to it at all and became so
(19:18):
disillusioned with it. I became fixated and veterinary
and did lots of sort of part time stuff and evening reception
work at a private practice up there, plus volunteered for the
PDSA and the Scottish Preventionof Cruelty to Animals.
So I did a few different things.So you kind of knew what you
were going into because you eased yourself in with extra
(19:39):
work in your own time. Yeah, got used to it.
And you're like, this fits. This feels good.
And I found, I found the, the hospital that I work at now, the
Blue Cross and the Yellow Pages,that's how long ago it was in
London. I was coming down to visit my
granny and went for a, a day just to sort of see practice.
That's often what people trying to get into the veterinary world
would do, go and see practice. And back then it was 97.
(20:03):
There was no formal interviews. The the head nurse could see
that I was so keen and desperate, she said.
You want a job, We've got a student position coming now.
So that was it. Within a month I was moving from
Edinburgh to London, packed my suitcase and went great.
Yeah, that would happen that waynow.
But it's it's lovely that that human way that you got that, you
know, someone just said, yeah, she's got the right feel.
(20:24):
Yeah. It was just a meeting.
She was so keen. And it wasn't, it wasn't one of
hundreds of applications via e-mail.
It was just like here I am. This is it, Yeah.
Do you want the job? It's yours.
Certainly wouldn't happen that way.
And is the Blue Cross a single hospital?
Is a charity? What is the?
Blue it's a charity for people who are on means tested benefits
and so the the main 24 hour emergency hospital is in
(20:47):
Victoria. It's got a.
Victoria and London. Victoria London, yeah.
And the other, it's got a place in Hammersmith and Merton as
well, which is the 9 to 5 general clinic and there's also
one in Grimsby as well at, at ata 24 hour hospital in Grimsby.
But also they've got rehoming and adoption centres across the
country as well. But they've also got a mobile
(21:09):
clinic that we've got some connection with in Ireland.
But it's just the veterinary side of it is different.
Although we will see some other animals from the rewind centres
if they do have any complaints. But it's quite separate.
It's just the veterinary hospitals are there for people
in London on means tested benefits who are unable to
afford their veterinary fees. So you moved to London from
Scotland for the job? Yes.
(21:32):
Was living in London part of it?Did you just have to live in
London because that's where the job was because there wasn't a
Blue Cross in Scotland or where you where you drawn South and
like give it a go? My granny was part of the draw
because she was living down hereas well, but also trying to get
it up in Scotland. It was difficult because you
have to have the experience, which is why I was doing the
(21:53):
various bits and pieces. But because it's because a lot
of people want to get into the veterinary profession, or maybe
back then they did. I'm not quite so sure if it's
the same now, but because there's quite, yeah, it's not,
it's not exactly an easy profession.
People's expectations are quite high.
Veterinary fees are quite high. When you say a lot of burnout
(22:14):
when? So why is it not easy?
Why is there burnout? What's what's?
What's the pressures? I suppose the pressures is well,
keeping everybody happy as you know the rising cost of
absolutely everything. So it's the people, not the
animals, which is where the pressure is.
Both. Both.
But yeah, the the mental health crisis is quite high within the
(22:35):
veterinary profession. That's interesting, I didn't
know that. Vets do feel an awful lot of
pressure to, you know, to save everybody and, and, but to do
that for the amount of money that people want to pay.
We've got an NHS so we're used to not paying for our health
care. But so then when you get hit
with a vet bill, people will analyse it and think that
(22:56):
they're just being ripped off, but they're not realising that
medical care costs an awful lot of money.
In other parts of the world, of course you have to pay for that.
So you've got more of an understanding and might have
insurance. Whereas here some people do get
pet insurance out because they are mindful that the costs are
incredibly high and they want tocover themselves for it.
But it can sometimes come as a bit of a shock to people,
(23:18):
especially as everything is rising anyway.
So I think vets come under a lotof pressure because there's a
lot of people on forums or, you know, TV programmes or radio
shows that are often lambasting veterinary fees, but they don't
actually always realise. Because it is expensive.
I mean, I don't have a pet, but I understand from big friends of
mine who do have a pet that you don't want your pet to get sick
(23:40):
and also that the insurance of apet is also expensive.
It's just the way it is. Yeah, vets are incurring like
expensive veterinary fees to go to university to study for a
very long time. So you're paying for that
knowledge. You've got high overhead costs
of some of the practices if you've got the up to date
(24:01):
radiography equipment, so that'sX-ray.
If you've got facilities where you're able to carry out lots of
diagnostic testing, that all costs a lot of money.
So people have got to realise that where you're taking their
animal, there is high overhead costs, so that's going to factor
in as well. The drugs cost a lot of money as
well. The expertise, yeah.
So going back to where you are now with your life, is the
(24:26):
veterinary world going to be part of your future?
I hope so. I was hoping to perhaps do it
part time plus then and explore other options.
I'm not getting any younger and it's quite a physical job and
I've been volunteering at a Cafeand doing other volunteering
elsewhere and so it's starting to broaden my horizons a little
bit into some of the skills. Hopefully they've got our
(24:48):
transferable and so we'd like totry explore other things, but
while still keeping my hand in either part time or voluntary
basis and I would like to still stay connected.
So you've got like an open future with options and, you
know. Yes, Yeah, Yeah.
Hopefully. Yes.
Yeah, Yeah. Sorry.
(25:09):
Yeah. I'd have been to interrupt you
there. No, no, no, I don't interrupt
you. So that's me putting out the
gratitude there again. Yeah.
An open future where I'd like toperhaps try other avenues as
well. Yeah.
When I cycle past you, you had your eyes closed.
You were sat on the pavement by a bus stop.
The sun was shining. We just taking in a moment to
(25:32):
gather your thoughts what what was going on in your mind with
your eyes closed there by the by, by the by the bus stop.
I was trying to do that. The whole everyone's banging on
about being present in the moment, they're always going on
about it, but it's imperative and I'll be honest, it does
actually help when you're not onthe devices and you're present
and like being aware of your surroundings.
It's far safer. Also, it is amazing with
(25:53):
different opportunities or you might see sometimes you see like
a like a dog that's been separated from their from their
person. Somebody like might drop
something like it's, it's betterfor your awareness for crossing
the road. You might see someone that you
recognise to connect with. That's often happened.
It's unbelievable just being more present and not up in my
mind like ruminating or worryingor because some of the some of
(26:16):
the the thought patterns are so useless.
It's just unbelievable when you observe your mind.
So just like taking in nature, just taking in the beauty, even
in the I know it's, it's so cliched.
And I'm, I'm sometimes getting really annoyed when people keep
saying be in the present moment.I'm thinking you get in the
freaking present moment. It's not always that possible.
OK. But when you actually do it,
(26:37):
yeah. It, it, it can, it can make a
huge difference. Yeah, yeah.
Perhaps if I'd been looking downat my phone, not like sitting
trying to meditate with my face in the sun, you might not have
thought, Oh right, I'll go and ask that person.
You're right. Never know, just you're right.
I probably would have passed youby.
Yeah, this is it. But just being aware of your
surroundings, I think. Yeah, from a safety point of
(27:00):
view and from an interest point of view, yeah, it affords many
possibilities. Not always, I know, but yeah,
yeah, there's something in it, Yeah.
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