June 18, 2025 • 28 mins
Trimming a tree beside a canal, Dan and his team were dropping branches onto the footpath in between people walking past. "It's a very physical job, it's quite hard on your body, you've got to have your wits about you". #otherlivesareavailable #podcast #eastlondon #arborist
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(00:04):
Today we're over at Hackney justcarrying out a canal job,
basically a tree on the beside of the footpath overhanging.
So it's a bit of an obstacle forsome of the boats and it's got
basically weak union points in the bottom.
So we need to take out some of the weight out of the tree as
there's a multi stem. So just basically like a a hard
crown reduction. Really.
Yeah. So preserve the tree for a lot
(00:25):
longer. A lot of people look at tree
surgeons just think we cut down trees, but that's not always the
thing we do. It's just about trying to keep
the trees and preserve them as long as we can.
My name is Dan Andrews. I'm an arborist.
I run a team of about four to five people.
It's my own firm. Yeah.
(00:51):
Come through. Yeah, it's Andrews of Kimpton.
We run which is a Hartford basedcompany.
We travel all over you within about an hour, an hour and a
half. So we travel into London, we can
travel up to like Northampton sometimes damage to a year.
So travel about an hour, an hourand a half.
Your bread and butt. Sometimes you can have like a
lot of domestic clients, your commercial clients are quite
(01:15):
bread and butt. So on this they bring in
obviously a constant flow of work depends on different
varieties. As we're here today, we're doing
work on behalf of the canal and river truck.
So we only normally carry out a lot of the the biggest works we
carry out during winter periods because nesting bird season.
So at the moment we're having tocarry out a nesting bird form
(01:36):
just to make sure there's no nesting bird.
So normally there's sort of workwe carry out through winter
time. It's just obviously if there's
hazardous trees or other trees leftover.
But yeah, we try and keep in quite a few companies really
just so all the rags are mining baskets.
So we try and keep all our clients happy at the same time
really. So, yeah, yeah.
(01:56):
So you're up a tree, you come across the birds nest.
What you do? Can't carry out the work
basically because obviously you're ruining obviously their
home basically. So you just have to put that
tree down as not done basically,and then come back for it in
September when they're not nesting.
So you can check the nest. Sometimes we check it.
Obviously you really know if there's nesting.
(02:18):
You can normally see it from a ground point of view, but if
you're up there, you can sometimes obviously see birds
coming in and out. But if there's no birds coming
in and out, have a quick little view in there.
Just see if there's anything in there.
Obviously there's nothing in there.
It's a doorman nest. You can carry out the work, but
otherwise you shouldn't carry out any treatments.
(02:39):
I would never have thought that.Yeah, a lot of people don't.
I mean, it's a very like nowadays there's a lot of people
obviously very protected about birds.
So you have to just make sure you do your job properly.
Even like pigeons, no one like pigeons.
But obviously you still can't carry out the work with them up
there really. Yeah, pigeons in London.
Yeah. So you can't carry out with
(02:59):
them. I mean, squirrels you can, but I
mean they normally Burrow insidethe tree to be fair, like if you
have popular trees. But yeah, so that is a problem.
Sometimes you could turn up to drop and you could not have to
do it. So you just have to make sure
you've got another plan of action just in case ever
something happens like that do. You ever have squirrels throwing
nuts at you? I haven't.
I've had them nearly attack me. Like they run across near your
(03:22):
head and they can jump onto yourface.
So I've I've heard the stories and couldn't attack people, but
I haven't had it lucky enough. One on Nath.
Yeah, you can come through. Oh.
Another pest you've got to watchout for is basically oak moth.
So on the oak trees, a lot of them now in London, you have a
(03:43):
basic oak moth. It forms a nest underneath.
It's basically a moth basically.And yeah, and basically what it
can do, it's basically like a little Caterpillar basically.
And it's called the little hairson it that will, you got to make
sure you check it before you carry out work because that your
whole body will come out in a massive allergic reaction all
red over you. So you have to have to make sure
before you carry on your work, basically.
(04:04):
It's called OPM. So basically you have to come
and remove all the nests before you carry out work or spray the
tree. So there's a caterpillars, Yeah,
give you a rush. Yeah, that's correct.
Yeah. In oak trees, yeah, it's, it's
more spreading up to the north now, a lot of it around the
southeast. So yeah, that's one thing to
look at. And again, if you've got to be
environmental friendly as well, you can't just be like, oh, get
(04:24):
rid of all the trees. So again, you want to really,
yeah, do's and don'ts just basically look after nature,
really. So people shouldn't think of you
as people who chop down trees, but people think of you as
people who preserve trees. Yeah, that's what I'd like to
think because you get that 90% of the time.
And to be honest, there's a lot of people like eco friendly in
(04:45):
this job, like a lot of hippies.There's a lot of people who like
nature, but it's about explaining some.
Like it's like, for example, if you're like thinning woodland
out or coppice in woodland, thatwoodland could be hundreds of
years old. But obviously they see it as,
oh, you're taking the woods out,but you're not.
It's just like prolonging that life.
It's different. Deforestation is a different to
woodland management and things like that.
So it's just about educating people with more and more could
(05:07):
be educated about trees and you know, we're not just here to
hack trees down. Hopefully it'd be nice to get a
bit more respect sometimes. Coming down, right in it.
(06:04):
What's up, babe? Coming down, right.
Yeah, Yeah. That's the right height, isn't
it? Yeah, I reckon, yeah.
Just prune it in hard. Yeah.
Trying to keep the shape there. Yeah, that's right.
You look at a tree and you think, OK, this this, this this.
Yeah. So certain places will have like
(06:24):
a tree surveys done. So before we go to site, they
will give like a recommendation on it.
So some of it's, we just go there, I work out how long it's
going to take and then we'll bring a team in sort of like
this is what with this tree today, what we're carrying out,
They've already had like a survey done on it.
That's more like commercial domestic clients normally go for
aesthetic look sometimes. So like a reduction in the back
garden might be allowed more light into their house and
(06:46):
things like that. And obviously in back gardens,
it's nice to reduce the tree sometimes a bit like a haircut,
really thin it out a bit, that abit more light, transparent
through rather than you could leave it for a long period of
(07:08):
time. And then it goes past the point
everyone has got gets annoyed about.
Everyone's an uproar. If you just maintain its shape,
sometimes it's it's quite a nicething to do, yeah.
So you're helping neighbors get on.
Yeah, sometimes, yeah, you can'talways help them, but yeah,
normally island eye ones are theworst for that, which is like an
Evergreen conifer. That's normally what you get in
a lot of back gardens if it's maintained as a hedge and it can
(07:31):
look really nice. But if it's just boxed out light
and they can grow like 6070 foot, yeah, neighbors have a bit
of uproar sometimes a bit. Do you always have a positive
reaction to what you're doing? Yeah, it's nice to see the
finishing outcomes like of the tree and like what you can do.
Like I said, we do get criticized sometimes as tree
surgeons because people think we're just there obviously
(07:51):
damaging the trees or taking them down.
So I normally explain the reasons behind it, why we do it.
But obviously and there is a Series A lot of bad practice
people in the trade. So there is people just do what
they think obviously to get the money coming in.
But that ain't always what we'reall about.
All of us. So you do sometimes get people
come along and go, Oh no, that'smy favorite tree.
(08:12):
Yeah, loads. Like sometimes you can get like
purple leaf plums for example, like they can have a beautiful
flower and be fine, but the inner core might be obviously
damaged. So it'd be like soft in the
inside. So it's a deterioration of the
inner core and obviously that could peel over and die.
So on the outside the tree can look really nice, but the inside
is not so great. But again, that's why sometimes
(08:33):
we reduce a tree just to allow its period to carry on or you'll
call it like a mono lift. So basically like if there's a
big tree and it's deterioration,you just bring it down over a
course of like 6 or 8 years. If it's an oak you shouldn't
just do it in one, just bring itdown in the slow period.
What about your understanding oftrees?
How's it? How's it changed over time?
I'd say the last 5-6 years there's a lot more passion into
(08:55):
it. Like suppose years ago people
used to take trees down just because it was in their way,
where nowadays obviously it's it's a lot different trying to
preserve everything for nature. There's a lot more TPO's on
trees in conservation areas. They're a lot more funny with
things. So yeah, it's just a.
What's a TPO? Basically a tree preservation
order. So basically it has an order on
the tree. So any works that you have to
(09:16):
carry out on the tree have to gothrough the council.
Apart from Deadwood in, you're allowed to Deadwood it, which is
basically like a piece of Deadwood in there.
So any works, if it's a reduction, a fell, even a crown
lift, it needs to obviously be approved by the council.
Did you always want to be a treesurgeon?
I actually come from a background of horticulture.
(09:37):
So my dad was a Hulk into horticulture.
He has his own grounds maintenance business.
So I sort of, I come from a background like that and then he
tries to put me off trees because it's very dangerous job.
So yeah. But I ended up going that way
anyway do. You remember the first tree?
The first tree I did, just trying to think.
I think actually it was a obviously I learned to climb on
like oaks of doing the course and that.
(09:58):
But the first tree I had to carry out work on was, believe
it or not, was an Orlando in someone's back garden, a
neighbour's dispute. So yeah, that was the first tree
I ever had to reduce to a certain height.
Yeah. Did you talk to both sides of
the fence before you did it? They weren't on talking terms.
You mentioned the thing about the danger.
Tell us a bit about the danger, because you're up and down
(10:19):
trees. How do you think about the
danger? Cover us.
OK, Basically you're tied up where you've got your rope and
harness, 2 points of anchor in the tree.
It's evolved a lot like used to just be knots.
Now you climb on like different systems, which is more of a
mechanical system. So it has got easier for us.
More people use mutes now, whichis basically elevated platform,
(10:40):
basically your cherry picker if you can get access because
you're always limited to access of where you are.
Yeah, the danger is obviously when you're cutting, you always
got to make sure you've got two points of anchor up there, which
is basically roping in points. If it's a large tree you can use
a crane to dismantle. Like if you're in a tight access
space, you can use grapple saws now, which is like a train
(11:02):
drawing, like a big mechanical arm.
So yeah, that's quite. It's just assessing the
situation and what you can do really.
So what's your, what's your colleague doing up there now?
Sorry, he is basically reducing the crown in quite hard just
because of the weak union pointsup there.
So yeah, he's up there. How?
(11:24):
How dangerous is that? How far up is he?
He's probably about 40 foot up, which is not a a massive deal of
height today. I mean, sometimes when you're
dealing with trees in London, like London planes in there,
we're probably dealing with about up to 100 foot upwards
sometimes when you're doing a big London plane tree.
So yeah, it is very dangerous. You can get kickbacks.
So if you're in certain positions when you're soaring,
(11:46):
the sore could kick back in. So it's getting the right
position while you're up there. You're always in awkward,
sometimes awkward spots just trying to make it as comfortable
as you can up there. It's a very physical job, very
physical job. So yeah, it's quite hard on your
body. So it's you always got to be
have your wits about you every single day.
To be fair, in the rain it can be a lot more challenging.
Obviously if there's windy weather you can be up doing call
(12:08):
outs and storms. So yeah, it's it's quite
challenging job. So the call outs and storms,
tell us a bit about that. So it's not just on a nice day
you go out and do it. You have to do emergency tree
work. Yeah, of course, just like any
emergency services really. If there's a tree blocking the
road, obviously you've got emergency vehicles coming
through, ambulances, Fire Brigades, so that road needs to
be cleared as quick as possible.So you could have a tree on a
(12:31):
house. So yeah.
And you're, you're just going tohave to go out in conditions and
deal with it the best you can. Obviously as safe as you can.
You'll do a risk assessment, site specific plan and try and
come up with the best method as you can.
But what you learn obviously in college and stuff it, it isn't
always like that. In that scenario, it's just
basically, yeah, we'll teach youthe basics, but you're learning
(12:52):
other stuff on the job. A lot of the time over the years
experience, 1520 years experience, you're always
learning new things. There's a lot of different
things what can just happen obviously, and you don't know,
we see so. Have you ever found yourself
hanging off a crutch? Yeah, a few times, yeah.
No, it's a you get, the higher you get your rank point.
(13:13):
Of course, you can get right outon the limbs, but yeah, most
days are out on the limbs, so yeah.
All right. Literally out on.
The limb, yeah, that's it right out there.
So yeah, that's us. The company that you work for,
is it your company? Is it a big company?
(13:34):
Yeah, it's my company. So there's about five of us, six
of us. So, yeah, I've been going for
about 7 years now. Before that, I've done a bit of
railway work, which is not the pleasant of work.
But before that, I've worked forone.
Large companies carry out a lot of large crane work, large
reduction work. So yeah, that's how I sort of
started out. When you mention the railways,
you're talking about reducing the trees along a railway.
(13:56):
Yeah, that wasn't so nice. They're trying to reduce lethal
so it's a lot of taking down trees, So and they're not nice
beach, but it's not a very nice environment.
As I said, like the large company I worked for was a lot
better, like preserving trees. We'd do a lot of St. trees, a
lot of park work. They were like a lot better
company rather than the railway to be fair.
And what was it like setting up your own business?
That point of moving into it was, was it a moment of risk?
(14:17):
Was it a moment of tension for you?
You're like, can I do? This I sort of, I was just in my
early 30s at the time when I started and it was either I stay
at this large company where I was previous to the railway and
try and work my way up to a manager or I leave now and start
myself because I was in sort of a young fit state.
I didn't want to get into my 40s, fifties and start up.
(14:38):
So it was a bit of risk I had obviously my dad owned a
horticultural business so that helped us get him working from
the beginning. But again, just it was about 2-3
days a week. I'd done a bit of freelancing
for other companies, so yeah, just yeah, it's only probably
the last 2-3 years. Start seeing the rewards now.
So yeah. So you knew you were taking a
risk. Yeah, yeah.
Because obviously keep the world, it's sort of very
(14:59):
competitive. So there's always like you're up
against like a lot of companies,especially if companies have
been going. We come from Hertfordshire, so
in some of the little villages, some people have been going
10-15 years. So you're up against people who
have been in there a long time. So obviously you don't want to
step on too many toes. And so it's just, yeah, it's
quite competitive out there, yeah.
(15:22):
Once you've taken down a tree, you take away every bit that
you've taken down. Yeah, if we were working on the
canal like today, obviously whenthis is not a fail, so it's a
reduction, but normally if there's a tree coming down, we
will leave logs for people in London.
Not many people use logs, obviously boaters do, but out of
London a lot of people you're still allowed to obviously use
in your house. But yeah, so normally we try and
(15:43):
give back. If there's any schools nearby,
they can have the wood chip. Yeah.
And normally we take everything back to be fair to the yard,
whatever gets all that waste. Yeah, it will go get taken to
basically for biomass, basicallyfor energy really.
So somewhere they're putting in a burner and then that basically
produces electricity. There's one on.
(16:04):
Yeah, yeah, no worries, mate. One on.
Yeah. So it's very much, it's sort of
just getting the balance really.That's what we sort of do,
really. Where's the, where's the profit?
You look at a job and you're like, that's a good job to do.
For business, that's a bad job to do.
How does it divide up? So basically you try and look at
a trees, think how long will this take like for the day, how
(16:26):
much crew you'll need. So you try and work it out like
that. I mean there's all different
rates like you could be saying like a two man team might be
from anywhere from 700 to £1200 a day depending what area you're
in. Because obviously a company is
very expensive. Tree surgery, like the trousers
we have on their £300 boots of £300.
(16:46):
The climbing kit's probably a couple of 1000 chippers range
from 30,000 upwards. Then you got your insurances.
So then you might have a yard running cost, which is money.
So there's a lot of someone might be in someone's back
garden and go, I don't know, it could be an £800 or it could be
even a free foreground job depending if it's a large tree
to take down. So some people might think, Oh
my God, that's a extraordinary amounts of money, but it's
(17:08):
obviously the running cost behind it is extortionate.
So that's normally the reasons. Obviously if you work in London,
you have EUR 6 van again, it ain't going to be a box van.
You're going to have a custom built tipper.
So you could be talking 30,000 upwards.
So yeah, there's just obviously a lot goes behind it.
The saws are 6 to £800 each. So yeah, it's just a lot goes
behind that side of the businessreally.
(17:29):
That's that's when you sort of break it down.
Basically, you break it down howdifficult it's going to be and
if there's any elements of obviously something can get
broke, obviously you try and eliminate that as much as
possible, but you just got to take that into account and stuff
like that. So yeah, that's how I normally
work it out. Put it when you need.
(18:05):
And then in terms of the actual beauty of trees themselves,
rather than thinking about them as as a job to do, I mean, if
you look at some trees and go that is a beautiful tree.
Yeah, yeah, very often you'll see like a lovely especially
like old veteran trees like big Cedars, cedar Blues, you'll see
them and you'll be like, oh, they're beautiful trees.
(18:26):
So you do get that a lot. Like, even if you work in
London, you see a massive Londonplane tree as much as they're a
big tree, there's a beautiful trees to look at.
So you do often see a lot of beautiful trees.
If a tree surgeon says, oh, they're not really interested in
it, they're not. Not saying they're not tree
surgeons, but you should feel a lot of passion for trees if
you're working with them every day.
So that's what I feel. Yeah.
(18:50):
Yeah. You you're called tree surgeons.
Yeah, our brist is the proper name.
What was that? Our brist is the probably the
proper name terms that is. How do you think of yourself?
Y'all see myself as an arborist?An arborist is more someone who
appreciates trees. I would say people use it more,
so that's how I try and call myself an arborist.
(19:13):
Do you, do you sometimes do a tree and you think, oh, I'm not
sure I've done a good job. It's like a haircut.
Occasionally when I sort of learn, I'd always used to learn
when I come down, stand back, have a good look.
I mean, obviously it's up to your ground person on the
ground. Sometimes you obviously you
always have one or two because you need an aero rescue on site.
So if anything happens, someone else should be able to go up and
(19:33):
rescue him theoretically. So, so as up there might not
look quite right or you think itlooks right.
So you just rather than just second guess getting on with it,
you ask your grounds person, what do you think it looks like
from the ground? And then you can sort of, yeah,
work it out from there. Tell me a bit about the Polar
Dean, because it is common on town streets to see a tree
properly taken down to its. Bare minimum, yeah.
(19:56):
So they always say like reduce because reducing looks a lot
nicer to be honest with you and it is better for the tree.
Rather than a Pollard when you basically going back to the
knuckles head you can. So the difference between a
reducing and a pollarding is what?
Basically a reduction will be togrowth points.
So when you look at it, it looksaesthetically nice.
So you want to look at a reduction go it don't look like
it's been touched, but the tree's reduced in size where a
(20:17):
Pollard is basically all the leaves are off and it basically
looks a bit like a skeleton. As such, basically is to create
a framework. So the reason why they do it on
streets, sometimes they've done it for years, like 30 years.
So obviously if there's limbs going out over the buildings,
obviously probably insurance issues, stuff could break off
and obviously subsidence. So sometimes they stunt the
growth, but obviously they do ita lot over in France.
(20:38):
So once you've kept that Pollardcycle, you normally need to
carry that on because it's hard to reduce a tree once it's been
pollarded. Oh that's interesting.
So polluting basically determines the future of that
tree. Yeah, basically, I mean, you can
reduce it, but you ain't always going to get it aesthetically
looking nice again because basically it will grow poles and
you can step up again a notch, like higher.
(20:59):
But really you just set in the framework for that routine
cycle, basically like a cycle. It's gone every two to three
years, which I think sometimes they do it for street trees.
Obviously, like I said before, your insurance issues or
subsidence issues, you're going over building.
So it's just, yeah, that's that's probably what it they do
it more as Yeah, boy, you got it.
(21:42):
There's always one. There's always one.
It's not going, but it's gettinghit quite hard.
(22:06):
Yeah. You see what I've?
Done over this side. It's all getting brought in like
that. Yeah, love.
You. Thank you brother.
No worries, just let me know. Lovely.
Going to let one through. Should I quit?
Yeah, come through. Yeah, you can see there.
(22:27):
Obviously some people always want more off.
So yeah, you're all good. That's just trying to appreciate
the public, really. So that was that was a local
person leaning out their window and saying can you take some of
the branches off an near my window?
Yeah. And that's it.
So obviously you can't always dothat.
(22:48):
You've got to go by obviously toyour specification.
So, but most people, right, if you sort of speak to them and
let them know what's going on, you obviously do get some
neighbors for public. So yeah, it's just you have to
be a bit of a people's person sometimes to do the truth
because you're always out in thepublic a lot of the time.
So yeah. Couple on.
(23:57):
Yeah, Nate, there's a couple of people coming through.
Yeah, it's all right. Yeah.
Ready. You're good to go now.
(24:31):
So you're running the business, you want to grow it or you want
to go into a different part of the business.
How much, how much leeway is there to move around within the
business? So yeah, there's other avenues
rather than just doing like domestic, obviously you can push
your commercial side so far, butsometimes it'd be nice you get a
(24:51):
bit of help. So I sort of have like a
business group I go to and like a business mentor.
So it helps me push the businessa bit further.
Because as a tree surgeon in arborist, you, you train to
basically prune trees and cut trees and take three done.
So as such, you're not really a business person.
So now you've got to try and be a businessman instead of being a
tree surgeon in arborist. So you've got to see it from a
(25:13):
different aspect of things. So which is hard because
obviously you love for trees, you have to not take it away,
but you've got to think about making profit in your business
because you've got employees now.
So you've got to think about making sure you make their wage.
You've got to make sure their progression of training, you've
got to bring in money from that yards, you want better
equipment, you want the lads to do better.
(25:35):
So you need to progress the business.
So yes, I made the decision to go with a guy, George.
Cash flow is his name. Anyone wants to hit him up, they
can. But yeah, he sort of helped me
through to progress my business.I've been with him from about
November now. So yeah, we sort of, we've had
two more employees on board. So we're probably growing our
business by about 30-4 cents since he's been with us.
(25:56):
So it's helped massively, yeah. And what's what?
So he is a business mentor. He's basically training you up
more in the business. Side yeah, so there's a few
line, there's just one behind you, so there's a few like other
trades there. So we'll do a meeting together
and then here get people in withlike specific things to help you
(26:20):
with a business. So it might be like you might
have different like business people there who like you might
have someone who helps write tenders up.
And then if another month, it might be like someone who helps
with, oops, that's a bit of Deadwood.
There's red bit. Yeah.
So you and then you might have someone who does like leasing
(26:40):
vehicles. So you have like different
people who are helping elements of business.
And he will sit down with us, run for our figures, see where
we can improve our business. And if I feel like I might want
to step up, is it the right time?
And then he'll help me think, oh, do you know what?
We should do this and then that.And then sometimes it gives you
the push rather than if it's just you, you're like, you might
be stuck at that phase all the way through because you're
(27:01):
always wary of what you're goingto do.
Just be careful one second you can come through.
Trees masculine or feminine? Bit of both really I think.
Like when you see them to talk about like a a nasty one, I mean
is there is there kind of ways that you could have categorized
a tree when you come towards them for a job?
(27:23):
Yeah, like you look at a lot of things like if it's if you think
it's horrible, like certain obviously like popular is a very
weak wood. So you're very wary of that like
when you're working around it. And also what's below you, if
you've got a lot of sheds, you could have, you could be over
someones outhouse you could be over there Conservatory.
So there's a lot of risk involved there.
So, you know, you're going to key factor into, especially as a
(27:45):
climate of, you know, especiallyif you're going to be up there 6
to 8 hours, there's a lot of fatigue on the body.
So you will see that as like, oh, that's not going to be a
nice tree or it's not going to be a nice climb.
So, but after it, the rewards are really good.
You think, do you know what I'vedone really well?
I've got this out of the way. And yes, it's it's a good
feeling. Yeah.
You want to sort that one up? Homer, are you right?
(28:11):
That's what I was thinking.
Today we're over at Hackney justcarrying out a canal job,
basically a tree on the beside of the footpath overhanging.
So it's a bit of an obstacle forsome of the boats and it's got
basically weak union points in the bottom.
So we need to take out some of the weight out of the tree as
there's a multi stem. So just basically like a a hard
crown reduction. Really.
Yeah. So preserve the tree for a lot
(00:25):
longer. A lot of people look at tree
surgeons just think we cut down trees, but that's not always the
thing we do. It's just about trying to keep
the trees and preserve them as long as we can.
My name is Dan Andrews. I'm an arborist.
I run a team of about four to five people.
It's my own firm. Yeah.
(00:51):
Come through. Yeah, it's Andrews of Kimpton.
We run which is a Hartford basedcompany.
We travel all over you within about an hour, an hour and a
half. So we travel into London, we can
travel up to like Northampton sometimes damage to a year.
So travel about an hour, an hourand a half.
Your bread and butt. Sometimes you can have like a
lot of domestic clients, your commercial clients are quite
(01:15):
bread and butt. So on this they bring in
obviously a constant flow of work depends on different
varieties. As we're here today, we're doing
work on behalf of the canal and river truck.
So we only normally carry out a lot of the the biggest works we
carry out during winter periods because nesting bird season.
So at the moment we're having tocarry out a nesting bird form
(01:36):
just to make sure there's no nesting bird.
So normally there's sort of workwe carry out through winter
time. It's just obviously if there's
hazardous trees or other trees leftover.
But yeah, we try and keep in quite a few companies really
just so all the rags are mining baskets.
So we try and keep all our clients happy at the same time
really. So, yeah, yeah.
(01:56):
So you're up a tree, you come across the birds nest.
What you do? Can't carry out the work
basically because obviously you're ruining obviously their
home basically. So you just have to put that
tree down as not done basically,and then come back for it in
September when they're not nesting.
So you can check the nest. Sometimes we check it.
Obviously you really know if there's nesting.
(02:18):
You can normally see it from a ground point of view, but if
you're up there, you can sometimes obviously see birds
coming in and out. But if there's no birds coming
in and out, have a quick little view in there.
Just see if there's anything in there.
Obviously there's nothing in there.
It's a doorman nest. You can carry out the work, but
otherwise you shouldn't carry out any treatments.
(02:39):
I would never have thought that.Yeah, a lot of people don't.
I mean, it's a very like nowadays there's a lot of people
obviously very protected about birds.
So you have to just make sure you do your job properly.
Even like pigeons, no one like pigeons.
But obviously you still can't carry out the work with them up
there really. Yeah, pigeons in London.
Yeah. So you can't carry out with
(02:59):
them. I mean, squirrels you can, but I
mean they normally Burrow insidethe tree to be fair, like if you
have popular trees. But yeah, so that is a problem.
Sometimes you could turn up to drop and you could not have to
do it. So you just have to make sure
you've got another plan of action just in case ever
something happens like that do. You ever have squirrels throwing
nuts at you? I haven't.
I've had them nearly attack me. Like they run across near your
(03:22):
head and they can jump onto yourface.
So I've I've heard the stories and couldn't attack people, but
I haven't had it lucky enough. One on Nath.
Yeah, you can come through. Oh.
Another pest you've got to watchout for is basically oak moth.
So on the oak trees, a lot of them now in London, you have a
(03:43):
basic oak moth. It forms a nest underneath.
It's basically a moth basically.And yeah, and basically what it
can do, it's basically like a little Caterpillar basically.
And it's called the little hairson it that will, you got to make
sure you check it before you carry out work because that your
whole body will come out in a massive allergic reaction all
red over you. So you have to have to make sure
before you carry on your work, basically.
(04:04):
It's called OPM. So basically you have to come
and remove all the nests before you carry out work or spray the
tree. So there's a caterpillars, Yeah,
give you a rush. Yeah, that's correct.
Yeah. In oak trees, yeah, it's, it's
more spreading up to the north now, a lot of it around the
southeast. So yeah, that's one thing to
look at. And again, if you've got to be
environmental friendly as well, you can't just be like, oh, get
(04:24):
rid of all the trees. So again, you want to really,
yeah, do's and don'ts just basically look after nature,
really. So people shouldn't think of you
as people who chop down trees, but people think of you as
people who preserve trees. Yeah, that's what I'd like to
think because you get that 90% of the time.
And to be honest, there's a lot of people like eco friendly in
(04:45):
this job, like a lot of hippies.There's a lot of people who like
nature, but it's about explaining some.
Like it's like, for example, if you're like thinning woodland
out or coppice in woodland, thatwoodland could be hundreds of
years old. But obviously they see it as,
oh, you're taking the woods out,but you're not.
It's just like prolonging that life.
It's different. Deforestation is a different to
woodland management and things like that.
So it's just about educating people with more and more could
(05:07):
be educated about trees and you know, we're not just here to
hack trees down. Hopefully it'd be nice to get a
bit more respect sometimes. Coming down, right in it.
(06:04):
What's up, babe? Coming down, right.
Yeah, Yeah. That's the right height, isn't
it? Yeah, I reckon, yeah.
Just prune it in hard. Yeah.
Trying to keep the shape there. Yeah, that's right.
You look at a tree and you think, OK, this this, this this.
Yeah. So certain places will have like
(06:24):
a tree surveys done. So before we go to site, they
will give like a recommendation on it.
So some of it's, we just go there, I work out how long it's
going to take and then we'll bring a team in sort of like
this is what with this tree today, what we're carrying out,
They've already had like a survey done on it.
That's more like commercial domestic clients normally go for
aesthetic look sometimes. So like a reduction in the back
garden might be allowed more light into their house and
(06:46):
things like that. And obviously in back gardens,
it's nice to reduce the tree sometimes a bit like a haircut,
really thin it out a bit, that abit more light, transparent
through rather than you could leave it for a long period of
(07:08):
time. And then it goes past the point
everyone has got gets annoyed about.
Everyone's an uproar. If you just maintain its shape,
sometimes it's it's quite a nicething to do, yeah.
So you're helping neighbors get on.
Yeah, sometimes, yeah, you can'talways help them, but yeah,
normally island eye ones are theworst for that, which is like an
Evergreen conifer. That's normally what you get in
a lot of back gardens if it's maintained as a hedge and it can
(07:31):
look really nice. But if it's just boxed out light
and they can grow like 6070 foot, yeah, neighbors have a bit
of uproar sometimes a bit. Do you always have a positive
reaction to what you're doing? Yeah, it's nice to see the
finishing outcomes like of the tree and like what you can do.
Like I said, we do get criticized sometimes as tree
surgeons because people think we're just there obviously
(07:51):
damaging the trees or taking them down.
So I normally explain the reasons behind it, why we do it.
But obviously and there is a Series A lot of bad practice
people in the trade. So there is people just do what
they think obviously to get the money coming in.
But that ain't always what we'reall about.
All of us. So you do sometimes get people
come along and go, Oh no, that'smy favorite tree.
(08:12):
Yeah, loads. Like sometimes you can get like
purple leaf plums for example, like they can have a beautiful
flower and be fine, but the inner core might be obviously
damaged. So it'd be like soft in the
inside. So it's a deterioration of the
inner core and obviously that could peel over and die.
So on the outside the tree can look really nice, but the inside
is not so great. But again, that's why sometimes
(08:33):
we reduce a tree just to allow its period to carry on or you'll
call it like a mono lift. So basically like if there's a
big tree and it's deterioration,you just bring it down over a
course of like 6 or 8 years. If it's an oak you shouldn't
just do it in one, just bring itdown in the slow period.
What about your understanding oftrees?
How's it? How's it changed over time?
I'd say the last 5-6 years there's a lot more passion into
(08:55):
it. Like suppose years ago people
used to take trees down just because it was in their way,
where nowadays obviously it's it's a lot different trying to
preserve everything for nature. There's a lot more TPO's on
trees in conservation areas. They're a lot more funny with
things. So yeah, it's just a.
What's a TPO? Basically a tree preservation
order. So basically it has an order on
the tree. So any works that you have to
(09:16):
carry out on the tree have to gothrough the council.
Apart from Deadwood in, you're allowed to Deadwood it, which is
basically like a piece of Deadwood in there.
So any works, if it's a reduction, a fell, even a crown
lift, it needs to obviously be approved by the council.
Did you always want to be a treesurgeon?
I actually come from a background of horticulture.
(09:37):
So my dad was a Hulk into horticulture.
He has his own grounds maintenance business.
So I sort of, I come from a background like that and then he
tries to put me off trees because it's very dangerous job.
So yeah. But I ended up going that way
anyway do. You remember the first tree?
The first tree I did, just trying to think.
I think actually it was a obviously I learned to climb on
like oaks of doing the course and that.
(09:58):
But the first tree I had to carry out work on was, believe
it or not, was an Orlando in someone's back garden, a
neighbour's dispute. So yeah, that was the first tree
I ever had to reduce to a certain height.
Yeah. Did you talk to both sides of
the fence before you did it? They weren't on talking terms.
You mentioned the thing about the danger.
Tell us a bit about the danger, because you're up and down
(10:19):
trees. How do you think about the
danger? Cover us.
OK, Basically you're tied up where you've got your rope and
harness, 2 points of anchor in the tree.
It's evolved a lot like used to just be knots.
Now you climb on like different systems, which is more of a
mechanical system. So it has got easier for us.
More people use mutes now, whichis basically elevated platform,
(10:40):
basically your cherry picker if you can get access because
you're always limited to access of where you are.
Yeah, the danger is obviously when you're cutting, you always
got to make sure you've got two points of anchor up there, which
is basically roping in points. If it's a large tree you can use
a crane to dismantle. Like if you're in a tight access
space, you can use grapple saws now, which is like a train
(11:02):
drawing, like a big mechanical arm.
So yeah, that's quite. It's just assessing the
situation and what you can do really.
So what's your, what's your colleague doing up there now?
Sorry, he is basically reducing the crown in quite hard just
because of the weak union pointsup there.
So yeah, he's up there. How?
(11:24):
How dangerous is that? How far up is he?
He's probably about 40 foot up, which is not a a massive deal of
height today. I mean, sometimes when you're
dealing with trees in London, like London planes in there,
we're probably dealing with about up to 100 foot upwards
sometimes when you're doing a big London plane tree.
So yeah, it is very dangerous. You can get kickbacks.
So if you're in certain positions when you're soaring,
(11:46):
the sore could kick back in. So it's getting the right
position while you're up there. You're always in awkward,
sometimes awkward spots just trying to make it as comfortable
as you can up there. It's a very physical job, very
physical job. So yeah, it's quite hard on your
body. So it's you always got to be
have your wits about you every single day.
To be fair, in the rain it can be a lot more challenging.
Obviously if there's windy weather you can be up doing call
(12:08):
outs and storms. So yeah, it's it's quite
challenging job. So the call outs and storms,
tell us a bit about that. So it's not just on a nice day
you go out and do it. You have to do emergency tree
work. Yeah, of course, just like any
emergency services really. If there's a tree blocking the
road, obviously you've got emergency vehicles coming
through, ambulances, Fire Brigades, so that road needs to
be cleared as quick as possible.So you could have a tree on a
(12:31):
house. So yeah.
And you're, you're just going tohave to go out in conditions and
deal with it the best you can. Obviously as safe as you can.
You'll do a risk assessment, site specific plan and try and
come up with the best method as you can.
But what you learn obviously in college and stuff it, it isn't
always like that. In that scenario, it's just
basically, yeah, we'll teach youthe basics, but you're learning
(12:52):
other stuff on the job. A lot of the time over the years
experience, 1520 years experience, you're always
learning new things. There's a lot of different
things what can just happen obviously, and you don't know,
we see so. Have you ever found yourself
hanging off a crutch? Yeah, a few times, yeah.
No, it's a you get, the higher you get your rank point.
(13:13):
Of course, you can get right outon the limbs, but yeah, most
days are out on the limbs, so yeah.
All right. Literally out on.
The limb, yeah, that's it right out there.
So yeah, that's us. The company that you work for,
is it your company? Is it a big company?
(13:34):
Yeah, it's my company. So there's about five of us, six
of us. So, yeah, I've been going for
about 7 years now. Before that, I've done a bit of
railway work, which is not the pleasant of work.
But before that, I've worked forone.
Large companies carry out a lot of large crane work, large
reduction work. So yeah, that's how I sort of
started out. When you mention the railways,
you're talking about reducing the trees along a railway.
(13:56):
Yeah, that wasn't so nice. They're trying to reduce lethal
so it's a lot of taking down trees, So and they're not nice
beach, but it's not a very nice environment.
As I said, like the large company I worked for was a lot
better, like preserving trees. We'd do a lot of St. trees, a
lot of park work. They were like a lot better
company rather than the railway to be fair.
And what was it like setting up your own business?
That point of moving into it was, was it a moment of risk?
(14:17):
Was it a moment of tension for you?
You're like, can I do? This I sort of, I was just in my
early 30s at the time when I started and it was either I stay
at this large company where I was previous to the railway and
try and work my way up to a manager or I leave now and start
myself because I was in sort of a young fit state.
I didn't want to get into my 40s, fifties and start up.
(14:38):
So it was a bit of risk I had obviously my dad owned a
horticultural business so that helped us get him working from
the beginning. But again, just it was about 2-3
days a week. I'd done a bit of freelancing
for other companies, so yeah, just yeah, it's only probably
the last 2-3 years. Start seeing the rewards now.
So yeah. So you knew you were taking a
risk. Yeah, yeah.
Because obviously keep the world, it's sort of very
(14:59):
competitive. So there's always like you're up
against like a lot of companies,especially if companies have
been going. We come from Hertfordshire, so
in some of the little villages, some people have been going
10-15 years. So you're up against people who
have been in there a long time. So obviously you don't want to
step on too many toes. And so it's just, yeah, it's
quite competitive out there, yeah.
(15:22):
Once you've taken down a tree, you take away every bit that
you've taken down. Yeah, if we were working on the
canal like today, obviously whenthis is not a fail, so it's a
reduction, but normally if there's a tree coming down, we
will leave logs for people in London.
Not many people use logs, obviously boaters do, but out of
London a lot of people you're still allowed to obviously use
in your house. But yeah, so normally we try and
(15:43):
give back. If there's any schools nearby,
they can have the wood chip. Yeah.
And normally we take everything back to be fair to the yard,
whatever gets all that waste. Yeah, it will go get taken to
basically for biomass, basicallyfor energy really.
So somewhere they're putting in a burner and then that basically
produces electricity. There's one on.
(16:04):
Yeah, yeah, no worries, mate. One on.
Yeah. So it's very much, it's sort of
just getting the balance really.That's what we sort of do,
really. Where's the, where's the profit?
You look at a job and you're like, that's a good job to do.
For business, that's a bad job to do.
How does it divide up? So basically you try and look at
a trees, think how long will this take like for the day, how
(16:26):
much crew you'll need. So you try and work it out like
that. I mean there's all different
rates like you could be saying like a two man team might be
from anywhere from 700 to £1200 a day depending what area you're
in. Because obviously a company is
very expensive. Tree surgery, like the trousers
we have on their £300 boots of £300.
(16:46):
The climbing kit's probably a couple of 1000 chippers range
from 30,000 upwards. Then you got your insurances.
So then you might have a yard running cost, which is money.
So there's a lot of someone might be in someone's back
garden and go, I don't know, it could be an £800 or it could be
even a free foreground job depending if it's a large tree
to take down. So some people might think, Oh
my God, that's a extraordinary amounts of money, but it's
(17:08):
obviously the running cost behind it is extortionate.
So that's normally the reasons. Obviously if you work in London,
you have EUR 6 van again, it ain't going to be a box van.
You're going to have a custom built tipper.
So you could be talking 30,000 upwards.
So yeah, there's just obviously a lot goes behind it.
The saws are 6 to £800 each. So yeah, it's just a lot goes
behind that side of the businessreally.
(17:29):
That's that's when you sort of break it down.
Basically, you break it down howdifficult it's going to be and
if there's any elements of obviously something can get
broke, obviously you try and eliminate that as much as
possible, but you just got to take that into account and stuff
like that. So yeah, that's how I normally
work it out. Put it when you need.
(18:05):
And then in terms of the actual beauty of trees themselves,
rather than thinking about them as as a job to do, I mean, if
you look at some trees and go that is a beautiful tree.
Yeah, yeah, very often you'll see like a lovely especially
like old veteran trees like big Cedars, cedar Blues, you'll see
them and you'll be like, oh, they're beautiful trees.
(18:26):
So you do get that a lot. Like, even if you work in
London, you see a massive Londonplane tree as much as they're a
big tree, there's a beautiful trees to look at.
So you do often see a lot of beautiful trees.
If a tree surgeon says, oh, they're not really interested in
it, they're not. Not saying they're not tree
surgeons, but you should feel a lot of passion for trees if
you're working with them every day.
So that's what I feel. Yeah.
(18:50):
Yeah. You you're called tree surgeons.
Yeah, our brist is the proper name.
What was that? Our brist is the probably the
proper name terms that is. How do you think of yourself?
Y'all see myself as an arborist?An arborist is more someone who
appreciates trees. I would say people use it more,
so that's how I try and call myself an arborist.
(19:13):
Do you, do you sometimes do a tree and you think, oh, I'm not
sure I've done a good job. It's like a haircut.
Occasionally when I sort of learn, I'd always used to learn
when I come down, stand back, have a good look.
I mean, obviously it's up to your ground person on the
ground. Sometimes you obviously you
always have one or two because you need an aero rescue on site.
So if anything happens, someone else should be able to go up and
(19:33):
rescue him theoretically. So, so as up there might not
look quite right or you think itlooks right.
So you just rather than just second guess getting on with it,
you ask your grounds person, what do you think it looks like
from the ground? And then you can sort of, yeah,
work it out from there. Tell me a bit about the Polar
Dean, because it is common on town streets to see a tree
properly taken down to its. Bare minimum, yeah.
(19:56):
So they always say like reduce because reducing looks a lot
nicer to be honest with you and it is better for the tree.
Rather than a Pollard when you basically going back to the
knuckles head you can. So the difference between a
reducing and a pollarding is what?
Basically a reduction will be togrowth points.
So when you look at it, it looksaesthetically nice.
So you want to look at a reduction go it don't look like
it's been touched, but the tree's reduced in size where a
(20:17):
Pollard is basically all the leaves are off and it basically
looks a bit like a skeleton. As such, basically is to create
a framework. So the reason why they do it on
streets, sometimes they've done it for years, like 30 years.
So obviously if there's limbs going out over the buildings,
obviously probably insurance issues, stuff could break off
and obviously subsidence. So sometimes they stunt the
growth, but obviously they do ita lot over in France.
(20:38):
So once you've kept that Pollardcycle, you normally need to
carry that on because it's hard to reduce a tree once it's been
pollarded. Oh that's interesting.
So polluting basically determines the future of that
tree. Yeah, basically, I mean, you can
reduce it, but you ain't always going to get it aesthetically
looking nice again because basically it will grow poles and
you can step up again a notch, like higher.
(20:59):
But really you just set in the framework for that routine
cycle, basically like a cycle. It's gone every two to three
years, which I think sometimes they do it for street trees.
Obviously, like I said before, your insurance issues or
subsidence issues, you're going over building.
So it's just, yeah, that's that's probably what it they do
it more as Yeah, boy, you got it.
(21:42):
There's always one. There's always one.
It's not going, but it's gettinghit quite hard.
(22:06):
Yeah. You see what I've?
Done over this side. It's all getting brought in like
that. Yeah, love.
You. Thank you brother.
No worries, just let me know. Lovely.
Going to let one through. Should I quit?
Yeah, come through. Yeah, you can see there.
(22:27):
Obviously some people always want more off.
So yeah, you're all good. That's just trying to appreciate
the public, really. So that was that was a local
person leaning out their window and saying can you take some of
the branches off an near my window?
Yeah. And that's it.
So obviously you can't always dothat.
(22:48):
You've got to go by obviously toyour specification.
So, but most people, right, if you sort of speak to them and
let them know what's going on, you obviously do get some
neighbors for public. So yeah, it's just you have to
be a bit of a people's person sometimes to do the truth
because you're always out in thepublic a lot of the time.
So yeah. Couple on.
(23:57):
Yeah, Nate, there's a couple of people coming through.
Yeah, it's all right. Yeah.
Ready. You're good to go now.
(24:31):
So you're running the business, you want to grow it or you want
to go into a different part of the business.
How much, how much leeway is there to move around within the
business? So yeah, there's other avenues
rather than just doing like domestic, obviously you can push
your commercial side so far, butsometimes it'd be nice you get a
(24:51):
bit of help. So I sort of have like a
business group I go to and like a business mentor.
So it helps me push the businessa bit further.
Because as a tree surgeon in arborist, you, you train to
basically prune trees and cut trees and take three done.
So as such, you're not really a business person.
So now you've got to try and be a businessman instead of being a
tree surgeon in arborist. So you've got to see it from a
(25:13):
different aspect of things. So which is hard because
obviously you love for trees, you have to not take it away,
but you've got to think about making profit in your business
because you've got employees now.
So you've got to think about making sure you make their wage.
You've got to make sure their progression of training, you've
got to bring in money from that yards, you want better
equipment, you want the lads to do better.
(25:35):
So you need to progress the business.
So yes, I made the decision to go with a guy, George.
Cash flow is his name. Anyone wants to hit him up, they
can. But yeah, he sort of helped me
through to progress my business.I've been with him from about
November now. So yeah, we sort of, we've had
two more employees on board. So we're probably growing our
business by about 30-4 cents since he's been with us.
(25:56):
So it's helped massively, yeah. And what's what?
So he is a business mentor. He's basically training you up
more in the business. Side yeah, so there's a few
line, there's just one behind you, so there's a few like other
trades there. So we'll do a meeting together
and then here get people in withlike specific things to help you
(26:20):
with a business. So it might be like you might
have different like business people there who like you might
have someone who helps write tenders up.
And then if another month, it might be like someone who helps
with, oops, that's a bit of Deadwood.
There's red bit. Yeah.
So you and then you might have someone who does like leasing
(26:40):
vehicles. So you have like different
people who are helping elements of business.
And he will sit down with us, run for our figures, see where
we can improve our business. And if I feel like I might want
to step up, is it the right time?
And then he'll help me think, oh, do you know what?
We should do this and then that.And then sometimes it gives you
the push rather than if it's just you, you're like, you might
be stuck at that phase all the way through because you're
(27:01):
always wary of what you're goingto do.
Just be careful one second you can come through.
Trees masculine or feminine? Bit of both really I think.
Like when you see them to talk about like a a nasty one, I mean
is there is there kind of ways that you could have categorized
a tree when you come towards them for a job?
(27:23):
Yeah, like you look at a lot of things like if it's if you think
it's horrible, like certain obviously like popular is a very
weak wood. So you're very wary of that like
when you're working around it. And also what's below you, if
you've got a lot of sheds, you could have, you could be over
someones outhouse you could be over there Conservatory.
So there's a lot of risk involved there.
So, you know, you're going to key factor into, especially as a
(27:45):
climate of, you know, especiallyif you're going to be up there 6
to 8 hours, there's a lot of fatigue on the body.
So you will see that as like, oh, that's not going to be a
nice tree or it's not going to be a nice climb.
So, but after it, the rewards are really good.
You think, do you know what I'vedone really well?
I've got this out of the way. And yes, it's it's a good
feeling. Yeah.
You want to sort that one up? Homer, are you right?
(28:11):
That's what I was thinking.
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