February 14, 2025 • 15 mins
In this episode, Sam talks about the dark side of parasocial relationships- obsession, stalking, and emotional dependency.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to the fourth episode of Parasocial Paradigm, the podcast
we explore how parasocial relationships shape our realities and our
perceptions of the world around us. I'm your host, Sam Erickson.
In today's episode, we'll be exploring the dark side of
parasocial relationships obsession, stalking, emotional dependency, just to name a few.
(00:44):
Let's get into the episode. From celebrity obsessions to online stalking.
Parasocial relationships have the potential to take a troubling turn
when boundaries between fans and artists blur and reality becomes distorted.
Let's begin by breaking down some of the warning signs
that a parasocial relationship may have gone too far. Most
(01:06):
parasocial relationships begin innocently enough. Maybe you find comfort in
the songs of your favorite artists, or do you follow
a celebrity's journey on social media through their career and
their personal life. But what happens when admiration turns into
full blown obsession? Unfortunately, we've seen high profile examples of
(01:26):
this in the past. For instance, in nineteen eighty Mark
David Chapman, an obsessed fan of the Beatles, and John
Lennon stocked and ultimately murdered Lenin. More recently, we've seen
fans crossing boundaries like showing up uninvited at a celebrities
home or sending threatening messages to them or their families online.
(01:46):
For example, Taylor Swift had a scary incident occur in
her apartment in the Tribeca neighborhood of Manhattan in twenty eighteen,
when a man named Roger Elvrado climbed up a ladder
into Swift's apartment and smashed a window to get into
that apartment. According to police reports, once Alvarado was inside
the apartment, he took a shower and slept in Swift's bed.
(02:08):
Crazy stuff. I mean, I can't I can't even imagine
what goes through these people's heads to think that this
is okay or that they have, you know, the freedom
to do this. I mean, it's just insane. Anyway, Thankfully
someone saw Alvarado break into the apartment, and I guess
that person contacted police because Alvarado was arrested on charges
(02:30):
of burglary, stalking, and criminal trespassing. Another good example with
Taylor Swift is the chaos that ensued when she attended
Jack Antonov's spreading rehearsal dinner back in August of twenty
twenty three. Now this one wasn't necessarily violent. People weren't
trying to cause her harm or do anything creepy. But
just listen to this. This was insane. I remember hearing
(02:52):
about this and I was just like, I couldn't couldn't
believe it. So she attended this diner in Long Beach Island.
It was supposed to be Jack Antonoff and his bride
their wedding rehearsal dinner, and long story short, I don't
know if it was leaked to paparazzi or the press
or whatever that she was going to be there, because
there were other alisters there like Lana del Rey, I
(03:13):
mean music industry people that are well known. But in
a short amount of time, a huge crowd had gathered
outside of that restaurant. And this crowd was big enough
that police had to be called to contain it. And
it was all because she was there and people wanted
to see her. I mean, this is it's amazing. Another
singer that's been impacted by the dangerous side of parasocial
(03:36):
relationships is Billie Eilish. And keep in mind that most
of these cases that I'm talking about, a parasocial relationship
is taking the form of obsession, not just an admiration
or appreciation for the artist or who they are or
their music and how it's impacted you know, the listener,
whoever's you know, initiating this parasocial relationship. But in this case,
(03:59):
it's these instances of obsession and wanting to have an
interpersonal relationship when the relationship is parasocial in its form.
In Eilish's case, this became her reality from September to
November of twenty twenty three. According to The La Times,
Eilish stated that Sean Christopher McIntyre, aged fifty three, sent
(04:22):
hundreds of messages via social media to her and her
family during this time period. These messages to Eilish, her
close family friend, and her mother contained disturbing professions of
love for Eilish and other disturbing violent threats against Eilish's brother, Phineas,
who is also I mean, if you don't know, he's
(04:43):
also a frequent collaborator with Eilish, like in their albums.
So there's a little bit of an extra dynamic to that.
I mean, it doesn't have any there's no reference for
that here, but it's just insane that it was. You know,
the these the people that were sending these messages don't
have any relationship I mean, parasocial, interpersonal, whatever. They don't
(05:07):
have any relationship with or anything invested in like Eilish's mother,
her friend. You know, So why why are these people
being impacted? I mean, and that's that's not for me
to answer or for you to answer. It's just, you know,
something to think about. I don't know if you're if
you're thinking this, but you know, as I was reading
(05:29):
that story, I'm just like, what, this is just insane.
But this incident actually prompted Eilish to hire a twenty
four hour security detail due to the threats, according to
legal documents that were obtained by the La Times in
twenty twenty three, and in those same documents, Eilish requested
that a judge grant a restraining order that required McIntyre
(05:50):
to cease any contact with her or her family and
to stay at least one hundred yards away from her
and her family at all times. I mean, I'm bringing
up all these case studies or these whatever you want
to call it, you know, real life instances where parisocial
relationships turn into obsession and it takes this you know,
dark form. But it's not always the case. I mean,
(06:12):
these parasolstial relationships can still be healthy if you know
what's real and what's not. But I just wanted to
talk quickly about another singer, Ariana Grande. I mean, I've
done three high profile artists musicians now, but they seem
to have, you know, the most impactful stories, even though
(06:33):
they are pretty horrendous. In Grande's case, a man named
Erhuran Zebulun Israel Brown broken to her home in Hollywood
ninety two times between February and September of twenty twenty one.
During those home invasions, according to news outlets, he wielded
a knife and threatened two members of Grande's security team,
which resulted in a five year restraining order against him.
(06:57):
According to KSB Y and NBC affiliates in California, Brown
also broke into Grande's Montecito home on June twenty sixth,
twenty twenty two, by using a screwdriver to disable security
systems and cutting alarm wires and telephone lines around her home. Ultimately,
though police officers apprehended Brown when a canine unit discovered
(07:18):
him hiding in a crawl space. Furthermore, KSBI reported that
investigators also found Brown had more than two thousand images
of Grande and had sent Instagram messages expressing his intent
to hurt her. I mean, this sounds insane, right, It
sounds like it's from a movie or something. So I
guess the point of this is what drives this behavior? Well,
(07:42):
it often stems from an emotional dependency that's left unchecked,
probably in childhood. People project their fantasies, needs, frustrations, desires
onto the public figure, and that creates an imagined connection
that starts to overshadow that person's reality. As we've discovered
over these past couple weeks, parasocial relationships are built upon
(08:04):
this illusion. Media figures curate their lives in a way
that fuels personal and intimate, but it's all one sided,
and for someone who's already struggling with feelings of loneliness
or instability in their lives, that illusion of closeness can
become a dangerous substitute for real relationships and might even
cause that individual to begin to prioritize this imaginary parasocial connection.
(08:28):
Over their real world interactions, which can lead to an
unhealthy fixation on the media figure and influencer, and can
also have dangerous implications for that person's social health. So
what's behind this driving force of the illusion of closeness
and related to obsession, stalking the dark side of parasocial relationships. Well,
(08:52):
social media seems to be to blame. Again. This is
something that we covered in previous episodes. I mean, it's
pretty core understanding how parasocial relationships operate in our society today,
but it can't be overstated. And while behind the scenes
accessibility to celebrities' lives can be exciting, it also can
create a false sense of reciprocity. That brief interaction a
(09:15):
like to comment, a shared fan post can be monumental
to a fan and it can feel like, Wow, they're
paying attention to me, but in reality it's just a
fleeting moment for the celebrity. Now you might be asking yourself,
why are we talking about this, Sam? You know, we
covered this last week. We talked about, you know, what's
behind parasocial relationships and everything that has to go with that,
(09:38):
the illusion of you know, intimacy and all this stuff.
But this actually has a direct correlation to obsession, to stalking,
to knowing, like what's behind all of that? And I'll
give a hypothetical example to illustrate this. Let's just say
a young fan named Mark became obsessed with a YouTuber
(09:59):
who applied to his comment one time about a year ago,
and over time, Mark started to send this YouTuber hundreds
of direct messages on different social media platforms, expecting a
response each time because Mark felt like they shared a
closer bond than they actually do, because that YouTuber responded
(10:19):
one time and seemed to genuinely engage with Mark, and
Mark genuinely thought, Wow, this guy's paying attention to me.
He maybe wants to be friends. I know he's famous,
but he addressed me, this is really cool. And when
that didn't happen, because well, that's just the nature of
parisocial relationships. It's one sided, and there's this illusion that
(10:40):
causes people to think that it's a two way street.
And that's where Mark would be severely disappointed when the
YouTuber didn't respond after days, weeks, months, and then eventually
a year, Mark realized that I don't think this was
exactly what I thought it was, and he felt rejected
and lashed out publicly on social media, accusing the YouTuber
(11:03):
of being fake to their fans and just saying all this,
you know, raging stuff because he was so upset at
this lack of what he was expecting the relationship to be.
And in this scenario, markus hurt because he felt the
YouTuber and he shared a genuine connection and the YouTubers
(11:23):
neglect and responding to the comment and to further interactions
was like a gut punch to Mark because it revealed
to Mark that the connection between the two wasn't as
genuine as Mark thought. And this was his problem was
he was perceiving it as an interpersonal relationship like you'd
have with friends or people you see on a daily basis,
(11:47):
instead of recognizing it for what it is, a parasocial
relationship that has a little bit of different rules around
it for interaction, as we've discussed, and that's pretty much
the topic of this podcast, and stepping outside of the scenario,
you know, this cycle of perceived closeness followed by rejection
can be emotionally devastating for fans of you know, artists, actors, celebrities, influencers, whatever,
(12:13):
especially younger people who struggle to distinguish between genuine connection
and interpersonal relationships and this curated interaction online where you know,
the influencer might be doing a little bit of interaction,
but they're not asking you how your day was. I
mean for the most part, for the most part, they're
not asking like, how's how's your day? Or how's your
(12:35):
dog doing? Or you know, things things that a friend
would ask you about. So here's the question, how do
we manage the darker aspects of parasocial relationships? Well, it
starts with awareness and boundaries. Here's a few tips. First,
it's important to recognize the illusion of parasocial relationships. Remind
yourself that what you see on social media, online, documentaries, music,
(13:00):
whatever it is, all of that is curated. Celebrities and
influencers choose what they want to share, and most of
the time it's not the full picture of their lives,
or at least it's not the unedited, real version of
their lives twenty four to seven, three hundred and sixty
five days of year, you know, all the time. Second,
(13:20):
it's important to limit your screen time, spending too much
time fixating on a public figure, you know, following what
they're doing without having an appropriate balance of real life
interpersonal interactions with real people that you can you know,
see face the face. That's just not healthy. You know,
you have to have that balance. So remember it's okay
(13:43):
to admire musicians, actors, celebrities or influencers from AFAR, but
just remember that it's crucial to maintain these healthy boundaries
and focus on building fulfilling mutual relationships in your own life,
because that's where the dark side parasocial relationships comes in.
If you make this all about, you know, blurring the
(14:05):
boundaries between interpersonal and parisocial relationships, and you lose that
division of you know, the two separate worlds, that's where
you really run into trouble. Just remember here, here's something,
here's something for you to think about. Parasocial relationships. Great
to have them. They should compliment your world, not consume it.
(14:26):
That's what I want you guys to take away from
this episode. Thanks for joining me today on this episode
of Parasocial Paradigm. Be sure to join me next week
as we have our final episode of this series. Man,
I can't believe that next week is the last episode.
I don't know about you. It's just flown by. It'll
be a fun last episode where're'll be exploring the history
(14:46):
of celebrities and they're super fan bases, kind of the
history of parasocial relationships if you will, but by doing
like little tiny case studies, and I promise you won't
want to miss it. It's going to be a great time.
But until then, thanks for listening and have a great week.
Fattipant BAP
Welcome to the fourth episode of Parasocial Paradigm, the podcast
we explore how parasocial relationships shape our realities and our
perceptions of the world around us. I'm your host, Sam Erickson.
In today's episode, we'll be exploring the dark side of
parasocial relationships obsession, stalking, emotional dependency, just to name a few.
(00:44):
Let's get into the episode. From celebrity obsessions to online stalking.
Parasocial relationships have the potential to take a troubling turn
when boundaries between fans and artists blur and reality becomes distorted.
Let's begin by breaking down some of the warning signs
that a parasocial relationship may have gone too far. Most
(01:06):
parasocial relationships begin innocently enough. Maybe you find comfort in
the songs of your favorite artists, or do you follow
a celebrity's journey on social media through their career and
their personal life. But what happens when admiration turns into
full blown obsession? Unfortunately, we've seen high profile examples of
(01:26):
this in the past. For instance, in nineteen eighty Mark
David Chapman, an obsessed fan of the Beatles, and John
Lennon stocked and ultimately murdered Lenin. More recently, we've seen
fans crossing boundaries like showing up uninvited at a celebrities
home or sending threatening messages to them or their families online.
(01:46):
For example, Taylor Swift had a scary incident occur in
her apartment in the Tribeca neighborhood of Manhattan in twenty eighteen,
when a man named Roger Elvrado climbed up a ladder
into Swift's apartment and smashed a window to get into
that apartment. According to police reports, once Alvarado was inside
the apartment, he took a shower and slept in Swift's bed.
(02:08):
Crazy stuff. I mean, I can't I can't even imagine
what goes through these people's heads to think that this
is okay or that they have, you know, the freedom
to do this. I mean, it's just insane. Anyway, Thankfully
someone saw Alvarado break into the apartment, and I guess
that person contacted police because Alvarado was arrested on charges
(02:30):
of burglary, stalking, and criminal trespassing. Another good example with
Taylor Swift is the chaos that ensued when she attended
Jack Antonov's spreading rehearsal dinner back in August of twenty
twenty three. Now this one wasn't necessarily violent. People weren't
trying to cause her harm or do anything creepy. But
just listen to this. This was insane. I remember hearing
(02:52):
about this and I was just like, I couldn't couldn't
believe it. So she attended this diner in Long Beach Island.
It was supposed to be Jack Antonoff and his bride
their wedding rehearsal dinner, and long story short, I don't
know if it was leaked to paparazzi or the press
or whatever that she was going to be there, because
there were other alisters there like Lana del Rey, I
(03:13):
mean music industry people that are well known. But in
a short amount of time, a huge crowd had gathered
outside of that restaurant. And this crowd was big enough
that police had to be called to contain it. And
it was all because she was there and people wanted
to see her. I mean, this is it's amazing. Another
singer that's been impacted by the dangerous side of parasocial
(03:36):
relationships is Billie Eilish. And keep in mind that most
of these cases that I'm talking about, a parasocial relationship
is taking the form of obsession, not just an admiration
or appreciation for the artist or who they are or
their music and how it's impacted you know, the listener,
whoever's you know, initiating this parasocial relationship. But in this case,
(03:59):
it's these instances of obsession and wanting to have an
interpersonal relationship when the relationship is parasocial in its form.
In Eilish's case, this became her reality from September to
November of twenty twenty three. According to The La Times,
Eilish stated that Sean Christopher McIntyre, aged fifty three, sent
(04:22):
hundreds of messages via social media to her and her
family during this time period. These messages to Eilish, her
close family friend, and her mother contained disturbing professions of
love for Eilish and other disturbing violent threats against Eilish's brother, Phineas,
who is also I mean, if you don't know, he's
(04:43):
also a frequent collaborator with Eilish, like in their albums.
So there's a little bit of an extra dynamic to that.
I mean, it doesn't have any there's no reference for
that here, but it's just insane that it was. You know,
the these the people that were sending these messages don't
have any relationship I mean, parasocial, interpersonal, whatever. They don't
(05:07):
have any relationship with or anything invested in like Eilish's mother,
her friend. You know, So why why are these people
being impacted? I mean, and that's that's not for me
to answer or for you to answer. It's just, you know,
something to think about. I don't know if you're if
you're thinking this, but you know, as I was reading
(05:29):
that story, I'm just like, what, this is just insane.
But this incident actually prompted Eilish to hire a twenty
four hour security detail due to the threats, according to
legal documents that were obtained by the La Times in
twenty twenty three, and in those same documents, Eilish requested
that a judge grant a restraining order that required McIntyre
(05:50):
to cease any contact with her or her family and
to stay at least one hundred yards away from her
and her family at all times. I mean, I'm bringing
up all these case studies or these whatever you want
to call it, you know, real life instances where parisocial
relationships turn into obsession and it takes this you know,
dark form. But it's not always the case. I mean,
(06:12):
these parasolstial relationships can still be healthy if you know
what's real and what's not. But I just wanted to
talk quickly about another singer, Ariana Grande. I mean, I've
done three high profile artists musicians now, but they seem
to have, you know, the most impactful stories, even though
(06:33):
they are pretty horrendous. In Grande's case, a man named
Erhuran Zebulun Israel Brown broken to her home in Hollywood
ninety two times between February and September of twenty twenty one.
During those home invasions, according to news outlets, he wielded
a knife and threatened two members of Grande's security team,
which resulted in a five year restraining order against him.
(06:57):
According to KSB Y and NBC affiliates in California, Brown
also broke into Grande's Montecito home on June twenty sixth,
twenty twenty two, by using a screwdriver to disable security
systems and cutting alarm wires and telephone lines around her home. Ultimately,
though police officers apprehended Brown when a canine unit discovered
(07:18):
him hiding in a crawl space. Furthermore, KSBI reported that
investigators also found Brown had more than two thousand images
of Grande and had sent Instagram messages expressing his intent
to hurt her. I mean, this sounds insane, right, It
sounds like it's from a movie or something. So I
guess the point of this is what drives this behavior? Well,
(07:42):
it often stems from an emotional dependency that's left unchecked,
probably in childhood. People project their fantasies, needs, frustrations, desires
onto the public figure, and that creates an imagined connection
that starts to overshadow that person's reality. As we've discovered
over these past couple weeks, parasocial relationships are built upon
(08:04):
this illusion. Media figures curate their lives in a way
that fuels personal and intimate, but it's all one sided,
and for someone who's already struggling with feelings of loneliness
or instability in their lives, that illusion of closeness can
become a dangerous substitute for real relationships and might even
cause that individual to begin to prioritize this imaginary parasocial connection.
(08:28):
Over their real world interactions, which can lead to an
unhealthy fixation on the media figure and influencer, and can
also have dangerous implications for that person's social health. So
what's behind this driving force of the illusion of closeness
and related to obsession, stalking the dark side of parasocial relationships. Well,
(08:52):
social media seems to be to blame. Again. This is
something that we covered in previous episodes. I mean, it's
pretty core understanding how parasocial relationships operate in our society today,
but it can't be overstated. And while behind the scenes
accessibility to celebrities' lives can be exciting, it also can
create a false sense of reciprocity. That brief interaction a
(09:15):
like to comment, a shared fan post can be monumental
to a fan and it can feel like, Wow, they're
paying attention to me, but in reality it's just a
fleeting moment for the celebrity. Now you might be asking yourself,
why are we talking about this, Sam? You know, we
covered this last week. We talked about, you know, what's
behind parasocial relationships and everything that has to go with that,
(09:38):
the illusion of you know, intimacy and all this stuff.
But this actually has a direct correlation to obsession, to stalking,
to knowing, like what's behind all of that? And I'll
give a hypothetical example to illustrate this. Let's just say
a young fan named Mark became obsessed with a YouTuber
(09:59):
who applied to his comment one time about a year ago,
and over time, Mark started to send this YouTuber hundreds
of direct messages on different social media platforms, expecting a
response each time because Mark felt like they shared a
closer bond than they actually do, because that YouTuber responded
(10:19):
one time and seemed to genuinely engage with Mark, and
Mark genuinely thought, Wow, this guy's paying attention to me.
He maybe wants to be friends. I know he's famous,
but he addressed me, this is really cool. And when
that didn't happen, because well, that's just the nature of
parisocial relationships. It's one sided, and there's this illusion that
(10:40):
causes people to think that it's a two way street.
And that's where Mark would be severely disappointed when the
YouTuber didn't respond after days, weeks, months, and then eventually
a year, Mark realized that I don't think this was
exactly what I thought it was, and he felt rejected
and lashed out publicly on social media, accusing the YouTuber
(11:03):
of being fake to their fans and just saying all this,
you know, raging stuff because he was so upset at
this lack of what he was expecting the relationship to be.
And in this scenario, markus hurt because he felt the
YouTuber and he shared a genuine connection and the YouTubers
(11:23):
neglect and responding to the comment and to further interactions
was like a gut punch to Mark because it revealed
to Mark that the connection between the two wasn't as
genuine as Mark thought. And this was his problem was
he was perceiving it as an interpersonal relationship like you'd
have with friends or people you see on a daily basis,
(11:47):
instead of recognizing it for what it is, a parasocial
relationship that has a little bit of different rules around
it for interaction, as we've discussed, and that's pretty much
the topic of this podcast, and stepping outside of the scenario,
you know, this cycle of perceived closeness followed by rejection
can be emotionally devastating for fans of you know, artists, actors, celebrities, influencers, whatever,
(12:13):
especially younger people who struggle to distinguish between genuine connection
and interpersonal relationships and this curated interaction online where you know,
the influencer might be doing a little bit of interaction,
but they're not asking you how your day was. I
mean for the most part, for the most part, they're
not asking like, how's how's your day? Or how's your
(12:35):
dog doing? Or you know, things things that a friend
would ask you about. So here's the question, how do
we manage the darker aspects of parasocial relationships? Well, it
starts with awareness and boundaries. Here's a few tips. First,
it's important to recognize the illusion of parasocial relationships. Remind
yourself that what you see on social media, online, documentaries, music,
(13:00):
whatever it is, all of that is curated. Celebrities and
influencers choose what they want to share, and most of
the time it's not the full picture of their lives,
or at least it's not the unedited, real version of
their lives twenty four to seven, three hundred and sixty
five days of year, you know, all the time. Second,
(13:20):
it's important to limit your screen time, spending too much
time fixating on a public figure, you know, following what
they're doing without having an appropriate balance of real life
interpersonal interactions with real people that you can you know,
see face the face. That's just not healthy. You know,
you have to have that balance. So remember it's okay
(13:43):
to admire musicians, actors, celebrities or influencers from AFAR, but
just remember that it's crucial to maintain these healthy boundaries
and focus on building fulfilling mutual relationships in your own life,
because that's where the dark side parasocial relationships comes in.
If you make this all about, you know, blurring the
(14:05):
boundaries between interpersonal and parisocial relationships, and you lose that
division of you know, the two separate worlds, that's where
you really run into trouble. Just remember here, here's something,
here's something for you to think about. Parasocial relationships. Great
to have them. They should compliment your world, not consume it.
(14:26):
That's what I want you guys to take away from
this episode. Thanks for joining me today on this episode
of Parasocial Paradigm. Be sure to join me next week
as we have our final episode of this series. Man,
I can't believe that next week is the last episode.
I don't know about you. It's just flown by. It'll
be a fun last episode where're'll be exploring the history
(14:46):
of celebrities and they're super fan bases, kind of the
history of parasocial relationships if you will, but by doing
like little tiny case studies, and I promise you won't
want to miss it. It's going to be a great time.
But until then, thanks for listening and have a great week.
Fattipant BAP
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