#37: Parenting Through Art, Affirmations & Radical Honesty, ft. Lakshmi Madhavan

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I think for your own sort of selfish reasons, who want to be
the best version of yourself that you portray to them, right?
Yeah, hello, beautiful people, and welcome back to another
episode of Parenthood, where we keep it real, raw and radically

(00:20):
human. I'm your host, Neha Gurkh, and
each week we sit with parents who are figuring it out, just
like you and me. At Parenthood, we don't just
talk about parenting wins or Pinterest worthy routines.
We go deeper into the chaos, thequiet, the questions, and the
rediscovery of self that Parenthood brings.

(00:43):
If you are tuning in, whether it's while doing dishes or
during that rare solo walk, welcome.
I'm so glad you're here now. Today's guest is someone who
brings beauty and reflection to everything she touches.
Lakshmi Madhavan is a visual artist, a contemplative
storyteller through her work anda devoted parent.

(01:05):
She has been with her partner Ashwin George for many, many
years and together they parent their 6.5 year old son, Ishan
Lakshmi. Lakshmi describes her parenting
experience as a wholesome, bumpyride with its own set of twists
and turns. And I cannot think of a better
way to capture the layered, unpredictable journey of raising

(01:29):
a little human. So let's begin.
Lakshmi, thank you so much for joining us today.
I'm so glad we could do this. Thank.
You so much for having me and thank you for that wonderful
introduction. Thank you.
Let's let's just start with you.If you had to introduce yourself
today using just three words or phrases, no titles, no labels,

(01:53):
what would they be and why? That's a hard one.
What would I introduce myself is?
Ah wow, I think I would introduce myself as a

(02:16):
storyteller. Yeah, yeah.
Maybe storyteller, this storyteller person who loves to
sleep And what else would I tell?

(02:38):
And I think just maybe hodo, hodo of lots of material and
immaterial things. Wow, wow.
Let's, let's talk about that, you know, tell us, tell us about
your family. Tell us about, let's start with

(03:01):
Ishan. Tell us about him.
What kind of energy or rhythm does he bring to your life?
What's he like as a person? OK, be easier question son is
amazing and you know, I keep saying that now that he's 6.5.
I think every parent who would ask this question, who would
think their child is amazing. I'm obviously different.

(03:21):
I think I have the most magical human being that I've bought
into this world. But I think it's been such a
beautiful journey to watch him grow and now that he's almost
going to, you know, go into those ages where he comes into
his own and comes into performing his own sense of self

(03:42):
and personality. It's been so interesting to
watch. And I think of late, I was
telling somebody else the other day, I feel very little or
almost no need for a social lifebecause it's like I have this
little friend and this person because I can talk to him about
anything, right? Like, I discussed my day.
I discussed what went wrong, what was OK.

(04:02):
I discussed my challenges, you know, things even like this
morning he was telling me you'refalling sick all the time.
And he has advice for me. And I actually feel like I can
just talk to him. And he gives me a perspective
that I feel no other human can. It's such a, you know, it's such

(04:25):
a uncoloured, such a raw, it's such a vulnerable little
perspective that he brings into my world that I'm always amazed.
Yeah. So I really feel like I've gone
into this, you know, little world where I have my studio
life and then I come back to my baby and I'm I'm very
wholesomely fulfilled because mysocial needs are met with these

(04:48):
being I'm anyway a bit of like an introvert and I'd prefer not
to meet people. But now all the more I feel like
I have this excuse that, you know, that need of wanting to
share your D and talk to. And of course, you have your
partner. Yeah.
And that of course continues. But I feel like I have this one
more beautiful human being who is a whole nother different
point of view about how he sees the world, looks at the world

(05:10):
and the conversations we have. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
And talking about your partner, you've been with Ashwin for over
a decade. That's a beautiful amount of
time. Tell us 17 years.
Wow. Tell us about your relationship.
I know how did you meet but tellus, tell your tell our

(05:33):
listeners. How did you 2 meet and what's
helped your bond evolve over theyears especially now as Co
parents? Yeah, we've been, we've been
together for so long. And, you know, I keep joking
with him that we, we know I to met him as a child, only I was
21 when I met him and now I'm almost 39.

(05:56):
So it's been such a long journey.
And I think even for couples it's, I mean, with child without
child, it's really often a journey, right?
Yeah. Especially when you're
traversing decades, like you've met somebody in your 20s and you
go to your 30s and you go to your 30s.

(06:16):
You're changing. You're being, you're changing in
very many facets of your life. And the good or bad thing about
this change is that this other person is also changing.
Yeah. But the pace, the path, the
speed might be completely different.
Yeah. And many times you know these

(06:42):
variables might not even be aligned.
Yeah. You know, so things like when I
met Ashwin, as you would know, we all know each other because
of AB school. Yeah.
Then I chose a completely different career path.
Yeah. And the fact that, you know, we
lived as an expat couple becausewe left India immediately after

(07:04):
our marriage. We lived across different parts
of the world. The plans that you had when you
met was a certain journey and a certain kind of life.
And then life throws lots of things at you and different
things happen. So I'll definitely be lying if
it's all been a bed of roses. It's had its own kind of shares

(07:24):
of, what do you say, curves and forks on the road.
But I think the beauty of what me and Ashwin share is I think
because we met when we were so young and the basis of that was
a friendship. Yeah.
I still feel that that's important in any relationship to

(07:49):
be able to, you know, be on the labels we give each other.
Yeah, it's been. You're my wife.
I expect this of you, and I don't expect this of you.
And you should have done this for me and you didn't do the
chores and all of that. I think on days that I'm really,
really mad at him a lot of days,and I'm sure vice versa.

(08:09):
I just go back to the fact that,you know, we were two people who
would literally steal time out of those days on campus to sit
at this, at this canteen and just have innumerable cups of
Thai and just talk about each other, right?
That's how we met and that's howwe fell in love.
And I go back to that and I say this is that same person.

(08:32):
Yeah. Evolved in different ways and I
think you know, if today like metoday were to meet Ashwin again,
I keep asking him do you think we would hook up because we've
become such different people from who we were there.
But well, these are questions wecan keep asking ourselves.
But I think for me, the tenets of it is just been, I think

(08:56):
there's been a friendship. I think it's the fact that, and
I think the most challenging part of this was also becoming
parents. So I have to also tell you a
funny story about it. I don't think I wanted to become
a father at that point. And there was me, who amongst a
lot of my friends, I was one of the first who had a child.

(09:19):
Oh. OK, actually I didn't know
anybody else who had a child, one some Durka, one cousin who I
don't speak to, 1 Durka Fair. So I didn't have anybody in my
close circle who had gone through the experience.
Yeah. And but still, I knew at that
point in my life I wanted a child.
Yeah, I was completely convincedthat I wanted a child.

(09:42):
Yeah. It was also that juncture in my
life where, you know, a lot of things were up in the air.
I had switched careers. I was trying to make my life as
an artist. Yeah.
But somehow I said, you know, I can manage it all.
It's fine. I also want a baby.
Yeah, and I remember having the conversation with Ashwin and I
told him, you know what, it's going to take at least two
years, okay? We are both so unhealthy and all

(10:04):
our lifestyles and so don't worry, it's going to take two
years to but situation. No, obviously he felt very
cheated. Leaders suppose I said, look, I
don't know, like I don't. I mean, unlike most other things

(10:24):
in our lives which we control, this was a process that I also
went into it with the odds saying that we are actually
unhealthy people and our lifestyle and all of that.
This won't happen so easily. And I heard a lot of stories
around new people who are tryingto conceive for a while, and it
didn't happen. And it happened to both of us.
And at that point also we were in kind of different cities in

(10:48):
the sense that I remember when Icalled him, you know, to say
that, listen, I think I'm pregnant.
And, and the words being I thinkI am because I'm also panicking
because it suddenly was like, oh, really?
This could be it. And it was such an important
juncture, you know, because he was in Hong Kong at that time.

(11:09):
We just moved to Hong Kong. We just set up the house.
I had come back to Bombay for some work or for a break, and I
was obviously meant to go back because it was Hong Kong.
The whole plan was in before that.
We went Copenhagen. Hong Kong is obviously closer to
India. I struggled a lot in Copenhagen
with finding work and finding a rhythm to my work.

(11:31):
And then the plan was, OK, because we're in Hong Kong, it's
much more easier, you know, connecting with a community and
also for me to travel back and forth and maintain sort of
synergies between the two country and my work.
And I said, OK, great. So we'd set up this beautiful
house, and I come back just to figure out some work.
And then this happened. And then I called him.

(11:53):
And he was also making a big choice for his life.
You know what? He had to pay up for a peace
coat. He wanted to do a second MBA and
I called him up and I knew that how important that was also to
him. And then I called him up and I
said this. And then I remember for somebody
who was not very sure of this journey, he immediately said,

(12:16):
OK, OK, So I said, but what about that?
I know you have to pay your feesby this evening.
He said obviously I won't pay it.
Wow. So, you know, in that moment, I
felt like for somebody who wasn't very sure of this, but
I'm saying that it gave me so much confident.

(12:37):
But he's anyway that guy. He's a stand up guy, you know,
who'll always do the right thing.
When he said that, I was like, OK, you're sure about this?
He's like, yeah, it makes no sense because I'm going to go
further away and then you're here and like, how does this
work? It was a commitment for about I
think 2 1/2 years and it wouldn't work out right.

(13:00):
Yeah. But for him, he didn't have to
think much. But I think in, in in reverse, I
would have thought a little moreand I would like, OK, so like,
why does it leave me? And what happened?
But he in that moment just embraced it.
And we also in every fight this comes up, love story.

(13:24):
You wanted a child in Taradan. Obviously, as every couple we
have, we have a rhythmic patternof where fights start from.
So that's how it started. I mean, he was not very sure,
very clear, you know, even all through the months that I was
pregnant and I was a lot more inIndia because aid this happens
in Hong Kong. And for three months I wasn't

(13:45):
allowed to fly back. But he wasn't very like, you
know, like I'm so excited about this phase of our life and this
baby is coming and I'll get veryirritated also.
I'd be like, but little bit excitement you should show.
But I think for him everything changed when he held this little
human in his hand. And he's the most amazing

(14:07):
father. He's actually way better a
parent than me. And the proof is that Ishan, I
think on his most sick days, on his most like cranky days, he'll
always pick Baba over me becauseI think Baba has this amazing
calm energy and Baba's very present with him in the moment.

(14:28):
Yeah. For me, I think I'm, I'm also
learning and growing through this process where I think now
I'm a little bit more favorite than Baba, but it would really
bother me a lot. I think for me it was that, you
know, the minute he stopped breastfeeding and then he felt
like, you know, I don't need anybodily connection to her.

(14:51):
His choice was always the father.
And it would irritate the fuck out of me.
Right? And I would try to rationalize
it with myself and be like, you're being so stupid and
foolish. I mean, this is not a
competition, but my metal competitive like this would
really bother me. It would really upset me.

(15:13):
I remember moments when I was I would be crying and telling him,
I don't care. Both of y'all go and do this
holiday and I don't want to comein anyway.
He doesn't need me. And I went through all of that,
but I'm in a better place. And it's been a journey.
I think, you know, also because for me, I feel like something

(15:33):
that parenting doesn't prepare you for, or at least what my
journey has been like. Everybody prepared me for what I
should do for the pregnancy. Yeah.
Nobody told me anything about what the other side did so the
other side was full like that and that whatever unfolded was

(15:57):
like nobody told me this is whatit is and this this is how hard
it is because I had a latching issue latch for almost the 1st 1
1/2 month. Wow.
There was so much agony and trauma with that because I had
thyroid. I had a major, major bout of, I

(16:19):
want to say PTSD, but that's notthe word I'm being on.
What is the word? What is the word?
Postpartum depression, partum depression.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think I really went through all of it.
And I think because you, in thatmoment, don't realize it.
Yeah. You don't realize how bad it is,
right? But like a year back, my

(16:39):
mother-in-law called me and said, you know, Lakshmi, can I
connect you to one of my friend's daughter?
So I said, OK, what what about? She said, you know, she's also
just had a child and she's goingthrough this severe postpartum.
And I told my friend that my daughter-in-law was the right
person to speak to because hers was so terrible.

(17:00):
So I was a bit shocked. I was like, really, Auntie?
I heard mine was terrible. She's like, you don't remember?
It was so bad. It was so bad.
And for me it was a bit like, you're talking about me.
I know I had it, but I realized for the people around how hard
and bad it was because you are going through it.

(17:21):
Yeah. And then I asked Ashwin and he's
like, yeah, you were like, crazy.
It was crazy to just handle you and things that would pick you
off and all of it, right? So for me, it was a bit of outer
body also. I was like, so I think for me,
it's been a, it's been a real roller coaster.

(17:42):
And then I think coming to my original point of I don't think
I was prepared for a lot of whathappened post.
I was very prepared for the pregnancy.
Yeah. The post I just felt like
everything hit me all at once. Like the latching issue.
I had a very colicky baby, wouldn't sleep more than 1 1/2

(18:03):
hours at a stretch. Wow, the bottle.
So that sleeplessness and everything tested me so much.
And then as you get out of it, then comes the another.
So each year is another set of challenges.
Then I think also parenting is also very triggering journey if
you haven't, it resolved a lot of your own childhood traumas.

(18:24):
Yeah. So today I have the tools and
awareness to know that when I'm dealing with Ishan and dealing
with one of his big feelings, soto speak, and they go through a
lot of these big feelings these days.
Today I know how to sort of disconnect myself, yeah, from
that feeling and that person andnot make it about me.

(18:47):
Yeah. Earlier what would happen is
when he's having a big feeling, suddenly it would trigger me
into some moment from my childhood in about what I felt
and then I'm projecting that into Asian and it's a big mess
of a situation. Yeah.
Today I can just step a little away and say, you know, what
he's feeling is a unique experience for this person.

(19:08):
I don't have to burden him with my feelings.
Yeah. I have to just hold space for
him. Yeah.
I have to be there to listen to him.
I can't necessarily solve everything for him.
Yeah, I just have to let him understand how he can best cope
with it. Yeah.
But this was all a big journey because for that, you know,

(19:31):
everything would take me back into something I felt as a child
and then that would upset me andtrigger me.
And then I am projecting that onto my unit, you know, stuck in
a bit of that loop. Yes.
And honestly, it was only therapy that helped me even
resolve these issues that I was having with Ishan.

(19:52):
Like you know saying why am I not being chosen?
Yeah. And I didn't realize how much it
was affecting me. Yeah.
And, And there's no space to talk about these things.
Absolutely. I can't go to my mother and say,
you know, I'm feeling like a loser today because my child
likes my husband more than me. She'd be like, OK, you don't
have anything better to say or what?

(20:13):
Like, when I'm saying it out loud, it sounds so stupid.
Yeah. I didn't have friends who had
similar experiences. I really didn't know where to go
apart from a therapist. And in many ways, I'm glad.
Yeah, somebody who could look atall of it objectively and help
me kind of work through my big feelings.
And I know a lot of big feelingsabout what was happening.

(20:35):
Yeah, I think because I went through all that today I'm at a
great place. And today, you know, now I joke
with Ashwin. And see, I feel like, you know,
the biggest barometer of who he loves more is now he sleeps in
his own room, whose name he shouts out in the middle of the
night. Every time I hear that, Mama,

(20:55):
I'm just like, yeah, I got chosen.
So yeah, it's been like it's it's been this, yeah, happy,
fun, sad, challenging journey for me.
And how has Ashwin been through all of this?
You know what he's EQ is very very high, so very like stable

(21:17):
solid rock. He has his own flaws.
I see now the listeners will think many Patty going Bhagwan,
but he has his own versions of things he's working on.
But I think with Ishan, you know, at least the initial
formative years because he movedback to India, Yeah.

(21:39):
Then he was also kind of figuring out his life here.
He got a lot of time with Isha and I think that time kind of
was what led to this beautiful bond.
Whereas I was in this dilemma key.
I had a baby. Then after I had the baby, I was

(21:59):
going to come out of it and justseize the day and seize my life
and conquer the world because still nine months of the
pregnancy. My pregnancy was fairly easy.
I worked through it. But then the post took a long
time. It took most till nine months.
It was nine months when I did another show.
So I felt like it was my time tocome out and, you know, get back

(22:23):
to everything. But again, it was a very
humbling sort of life moment because then there was COVID.
Yeah. So you are back to being in the
house doing the same thing. And I was damn frustrated by
then. I was just like, you know, this
can't be idiot. Yeah, I ought to go back for
what's happening. Versus for Ashwin.

(22:43):
It was like, after a long time, he got a break from work.
And he really used that time to kind of spend time with Ishan,
chill with him, and they formed a beautiful bond.
Not to say that I'm not around. I'm there in the picture, but
you know, my core energy was very agitated.
Right. I think I was angry all the

(23:04):
time. I felt like, you know, I was
having a child, the right decision, because I lost that
time. Now I'm losing this.
What happened after COVID, You know, I'd switched careers.
I was not at a very established point when I took the break.
So is it like going back to square one?
What's going to happen? Is work going to come my way?
So I think my energy was very different to what he bought to

(23:27):
the table with Ishan in those early years and that surely
played out in many ways. Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah. I don't know if that answers
your question about how is Ashwin, but Ashwin is very
present in the moments with Ishan and they have a beautiful,
beautiful bond. Yeah, sometimes.
Maybe because I'm the artist andI have those eyes.

(23:48):
Yeah. Look at them and did a whole
movie in themselves like mornings when they both listen
to music. Ishan in many ways talks like
Ashwin, looks like Ashwin. So it's like I have two clones
of the same who kind of. Who I.
Interact with. I think he also has some of

(24:11):
Ashwin's beautiful values, like Ashwin is very kind.
She's very, very moralistic. This is right, this is wrong.
We must always do the right thing.
I'm more like, what situation? Me Joe to me right, like
Karlina. But Ashwin is about no, but this
is right, this is wrong. And I think that's great because
we both as people have two very,very different points of view on

(24:36):
life. And I think it's amazing that we
can give both of that to Ishaan.Yeah.
And I think it could be confusing at times, but it also
gives him very different perspectives to arrive at the
same point and maybe he'll pick for him in every situation what
works for him. Right, right.
So yeah, I think we're both verydifferent in our own parenting

(24:58):
ways, but I can definitely say that he's the most stable, he's
the most sorted. He's the more like I can, I can
be of chaos of emotions and go like, but he'll be like very
rock steady and you know, he won't get too affected or
bothered by Yeah, I thought for big energy.
Yeah. The beautiful beautiful and tell

(25:19):
us about any non parenting rituals or you know things that
you do as a couple that help youstay connected.
You know, beyond Co parenting. I really feel like when I am
being my therapist, I think in the last year, you know, we've

(25:41):
made both Ashwin and me have made a lot more conscious effort
to see that, you know, Ishan is today at a point where he's a
lot more independent. Yeah.
He's a lot more capable of taking care of himself in many
ways from the perspective of ourinputs.
Yeah. So we've had a chance to step

(26:04):
back a lot more. We've also in the last year, we
really asked each other that, you know, like what you said,
our only input of this marriage or companionship can't be that
we're great parents. Yeah.
What else is there that drives us?
Yeah. And, you know, consciously
saying that, OK, we have to makemore time for each other.

(26:26):
What does it mean for us to sit across a table and not be
parents to a child? Yeah.
Just as two people who have grown leaps and bounds and
minds. But you know, have we checked in
with each other on that? Yeah.
So I think a little few small things, like just last week we
decided to take a four day trip without Ishan one day.

(26:49):
So yeah, one of our first, it took our 6 1/2 and we both have
our own sets of anxiety because I feel like, you know, we both
travel so much that little time we have.
I'm just like, yeah, I think it was a good decision because I
think to get 4 days where you'rejust with each other and just

(27:10):
trying to connect in a space that's not your home.
Because even at home now, even if Ishan like the good thing
that I have is that I have the support of my parents were very
close by. So I do have, we do have the
option of where he can go and spend the weekend there or stay
over there. But even if he goes, sometimes
we are those loser parents who by Saturday evening and they

(27:32):
come back, no come back. So, so I think, and then if
you're at home, no, then you also get into that zone of
chores and it's a weekend and what else you have to do for the
house and there's a pen and there's a ton of pending lists,
right? All.
So I think to go away from this space, go to a neutral place,
just try to spend some time witheach other has been nice.

(27:55):
I think even things like, you know, just simple things like
having a dinner or stepping out for a coffee we weren't doing
because everything was structured around Ishans
routine. Yeah.
So we'd automatically, we know I'd automatically gone into this
habit that I have to sleep at 9:30.
Yeah, I have. To wake up early for school.

(28:16):
So I have my dinner very early. I wind down very early.
So a lot of socializing I consciously kind of removed from
my life because you know, for meit was like risk benefit.
I was like, this benefit of thisnight out is nothing to me.
It's riskier to lose my sleep. HDA and Tarata, you know, I can

(28:38):
get very, I don't know, transactional and calculative
about it. So I completely stopped doing
all of that. Yeah.
But today I think I'm a lot moreopen.
I think the word is that I'm a little more open and I can be a
very, very structured person. I have, I have lists and to do
lists and more to do lists. And it's never ending.

(29:00):
Yeah. And I feel calmer when I'm in
control. So I think these are again,
issues that I've been working with, you know, some knowing
that in parenting in a marriage,you have to also learn to flow.
Yeah. Maybe I always plan for the day,
but I have to allow for that. But the earlier Lakshmi would

(29:25):
resist that a lot. I'd be very sour and pissed off.
Like, you know, one day Ishan has not gone to school for
whatever reason. Ashwin would just be like, OK,
let's go for breakfast. How can I?
So for me it would be like, yeah, but I have my BA and of
course studio and I've done this.
And then I'm then I'm worried about Vaisha.

(29:46):
I'm not going to school. Why?
I'm psycho analyzing him. Why is he not going to do?
And I get a lot into solving. Yeah, my something that I've
learnt about myself is that for me, under stress, under duress,
if I lose control, the way I getit back is I will go into
problem solving. Achatu, what is wrong with

(30:08):
Ishan? Why didn't he go to school?
Do I have to change the school? Do I have to make more effort
with play dates? Did I not do this?
Did I not do that? I'm going to was the last minute
just be like OK, he didn't go. What did we do for him in the
moment? Let's just make it a fun day for
him and let's go get breakfast and let's do something fun.
But I can't arrive there immediately.

(30:30):
Yeah. Obviously the journey is much
shorter. Yeah, feed is much shorter where
I'll be like, OK, take it, let'sdo this.
But otherwise, for me, it's a lot more about, OK, there's a
structure, there's a discipline missing School is not an option.
Like, you know, I have things like in a month, I have to at

(30:52):
least schedule 2 play dates. Did I go have coffee with two
school moms or other moms? And, you know, I'm the when it
comes to all that. And with that, Ashwin like was
just like, listen, he'll make friends.
Whether you make that effort or not.
He'll make friends. And if he's making friends
because you are making the effort, those are not friends he
needs. Yeah.

(31:13):
But we have these ideological differences where he's very
like, it'll happen and we'll figure it out.
And I'm constantly listen driving instructor.
So I think he's the more fun parent.
Yeah. I'm the more like this is the
week menu, this is the classes, this is what we should do when
this is the play date. And this is what am I doing to

(31:35):
fulfill his social needs, his emotional needs, his
intellectual needs. So I'm that.
Yeah. So basically I'm not the more
present fun parent. Yeah.
But I think then somebody has todo this part also.
No, Absolutely. Yes, yes, this is.
What keeps the wheel running? Correct.
Yeah. And tell me, Lakshmi, you've

(31:56):
talked about how chaotic your emotional, you know, energy is
and how how chaos rules your world in a lot of ways.
But has there been a moment whenyou surprised yourself with how
calm or intuitive you were as a parent?

(32:21):
So I think see chaos rules my I don't know if chaos.
So I think the first year it wasa lot of chaos because
everything that hit me, I was like, I have no bloody idea what
to do. Yeah.
Eating was so foreign and everything was so new.
And I think for a personality like mine, I, looking back, I
always feel like because I am a certain kind of personality, I

(32:42):
feel like if there is an input and I'm doing everything right
for the input, then there has tobe a certain kind of output.
Yeah. First year of motherhood, you
know, just like destroys that theory or that physics and
chemistry and biology of it in every way.
Yeah. Those basic things like when I

(33:02):
couldn't feed my child. Yeah.
It just messed with my head a lot.
I was like, what am I doing wrong?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, everybody around me and
my mother is like Hamara to SEO Jata.
Aunt is like, you know, I've never heard of this.
You just get the baby to the breast and they drink.

(33:22):
Men, what is this? How could you not know how to do
it? So I think for me it would
really be like, but, you know, Idon't know what am I doing
wrong? Somebody, what should I do to
correct this? Like my brain is not
understanding. Yeah, you told.
Me eat this, you told me. Do this.
I'm doing it, but this is acne. And then we had the whole
colleague issue that hours and hours of crying in it, someone

(33:46):
again, I was like, what? You know, I'm just feeling like
I can't control anything. Yeah, the solution I can come up
with, it makes it go away. Yeah.
So that, for a personality like mine, was very, very difficult
to understand. There is no cause and effect to
it. Yeah.
So what I if they could, Lord Henny?

(34:12):
Right. I can speculate, I can think,
but I'll be so hard on myself saying that.
But I've done this and this, andthen why me?
Why is this happening to me? Why am I feeling at this?
Yeah. Seems like such a normal task
for millions of other mothers. Yeah, until I found a lactation

(34:35):
consultant, until I found a community.
And then I was like, OK, this isnormal.
At any point in the night, therewas, you know, there was some
woman who was talking about something similar I was going
through. And then I felt a little like,
OK, you know, men normal. It's just that the people around
me have not seen it. Yeah, but that doesn't make me

(34:57):
the odd one out. Yes.
But it took some time. And also I didn't know, like I
said, I didn't know that I had to seek help on multiple friends
and help was available. Yeah.
Yeah. Right.
So for a personality like that, that first year was chaotic in
that sense. But I think once I kind of

(35:17):
crossed that your, I was a lot calmer because I on this
journey, I like work like your other parts of life where you
can neatly tidy it and compartmentalize it and you can
have some math to if I put in this much work, my input is this
much, my output will be that much.
That's not going to work here. Yeah.
I also quickly realized that youknow this guilt.

(35:40):
Yeah. Which can also be another side
to the chaos. Yeah.
Is something that is almost likepropaganda for a mother that's
all around. Yeah, so I said, you know, I
can't be 100% mother and 100% artist on all days.

(36:00):
Yeah. I just can't.
There will be some days that I'ma 60% mother, 80% artist.
Some days I need to. I can only be a 30% mother.
Yeah, I'd be a 90% artist and it's OK.
Yeah. I'm not going to be able to
fulfill all of my roles as much as I want to and be able to keep

(36:24):
it all going. Yeah.
And I was striving for that. That was really taking a toll on
me in many ways, mentally, physically.
And I think then there was something really interesting
that I had seen or read and I can't remember from where,
where, you know, this was explained by a woman mother who

(36:45):
said that, you know what, it's important to recognize that as a
woman, you're throwing a lot of balls in the air.
Yeah. But you have to be aware and you
have to know which balls are plastic balls and which balls
are glass balls. Yeah.
Right. So if the plastic balls fall,
it's fine. You can pick them up and throw
them up in the air again. Yeah, but the glass balls, you

(37:06):
can't do that, right? All then they pray.
So when you start each day, eachmonth, each week, you kind of
have to know that what are the balls in the air?
There are some for that month, that week, that day, maybe that
those glass balls, which is the deadline or a project, you
definitely have to turn it. They can't fall.
Yeah. So maybe you will let 2-3

(37:28):
plastic boys fall and you have to be OK with that.
Yeah, that's also been a journeyfor me.
By the time Ishan reached, aboutthree, 3 1/2 years, I really had
to embrace this version of who Iam in my multiple roles and know

(37:48):
that I can't. I can't be fulfilling all those
to the perfection levels that I want to because I'm only driving
myself, my health, my head into a bad space.
Yeah. So I think that's for me the
journey from chaos into some level of calm.
And the other thing is, you know, Ishan is a very, very calm

(38:10):
boy. His energy is like, again, it
could be that I think my amazingboy is so magical.
Yeah. I feel like he's this old soul
who's come back. So he has this very, again,
calm, grounding energy that automatically many ways more

(38:31):
than what I do for him. I think he does for me kind of,
you know, never gets really thatagitating as he's growing up, so
I think. With.
With many sort of factors, I've reached a place where today,
like I say, it's, it's actually very beautiful in the sense that

(38:51):
we're both like adults. If he doesn't agree with
something, he'll tell me. If I don't agree with, I tell
him or you like he'll tell me. Like if I like force him to eat
some fruits or something. Like you're not my body now, so
you don't know what this feels like to eat this fruit when I
don't want to eat it right now. And I respect you, right.
When you tell me you don't want to do something, these examples,

(39:14):
he'll be like, I know you don't like cats.
I don't force you to go touch a cat.
So you can't force me to teach me you don't like cats.
I don't like. You're married to Ashwin.
Yeah. I don't like cats.
And both my husband and son lovecats.
And that's why he keeps bringingthis up to anything.
His example is, you know, we know you don't like cats, but we
don't tell you to do it, so how can you tell me to do it?

(39:37):
And even the other day he told me something about because he
and Ashwin love music, and they listen to a lot of music, and I
don't. Yeah.
And their constant grouse with me is that every time we travel,
I make them do a lot of art stuff, whether it's museums and,
you know, galleries. So they were like the last
holiday we went to. We literally just went to Venice

(40:00):
because you wanted to see the Venice Benale for four days.
But we for you. So you told me we did it right,
Mama, because you wanted to do, but now we're asking you to come
to a concert and you won't. So it's something to do with
will you come for a Guns and Roses concert?
Sounds like this is a bit extreme because a, I've not
heard even one of their songs. I don't like it, so I'm not

(40:22):
coming. So they both had the argument,
like how we are open to your artistic experiences.
Music is a form of art. But you seem to be completely
closed. Yeah.
And Ishan was leading the argument saying that.
How can that be OK? Yeah.
And I was like, this is really like talking to an adult, right?
So he assimilates everything, and he's come to this stage

(40:44):
where in an argument, he pull all that up and tell you this
and this. But then how does that work?
Yeah, I also have to really walkand toe the line, the line that
I showed. And then I have to say that
that's what I'm also embodying as a human being.
Yeah, yeah. So I think parenting in that
way, in it's own way, it asks you to pull up your socks and

(41:06):
look at yourself in the mirror in the most royst, barest
manner. Yeah.
And realize that whatever you'restanding for, you're going to be
tested. And however hard that testing
it, you have to be able to kind of withstand that and still hold
that ground, right? Yeah, yeah.

(41:26):
So. So yeah, in many ways, I feel
like it's an experience that howmany times in life do you get an
experience like this where it breaks you with molds you with,
rebuilds you, it breaks you again, and there's a little
being always watching. Yeah, yeah.
And unlike any other relationship, you feel like

(41:47):
presenting the best version for this little bee.
Yeah. You might not do it with your
family, you might not do it withyour spouse, might actually do
it in zero relationships, but with your own child.
And when you have your own little one, I think for your own

(42:07):
sort of selfish reasons who wantto be the best version of
yourself that you portray to them, right?
Yeah, yeah. So I think that has been for me
the journey of that chaos to even saying, I don't know if
it's I'm at full camp, but I think I'm a lot more.
What do I see? I'm a lot more assured in my

(42:29):
parenting. Yeah, yeah.
Have I made gut decisions, intuitive decision?
I'm sure I am in the everyday. But you know, again, to give you
an example, we're going through a big decision right now about
something to do with Ishan school.
This morning I was telling Ashwin I'll never know if I'm
100% right or if I'm 100% wrong.Yeah.

(42:53):
I won't know. I can only say that as a gut
feeling. This is what I'm feeling about
the situation right now, and this feeling will translate into
an action that we take, and thataction will have a monumental
impact on our child. Yeah.
And that's scary. Yeah.
Right, because with most of the decisions you make in life, at

(43:16):
work, at home, there's some roomwhere you can undo it.
Yeah, redo it. You can edit it.
You can't really. You don't get as many chances
with parenting. Yeah.
You will get enough, but there are also enough that you know
that kind of defines the trajectory for your child.

(43:38):
Yeah. Yeah, what you thought as a
parent was best for your child, and that's a bit overwhelming
and scary, right? Yeah.
Yeah, it is. And it's also like also feeling
like you very little control, like are you doing what's right
for this little being? Yeah.

(43:58):
Not even come into his own. Yeah.
You, you will go back to you will deflect 2 points in your
life and your parents did something and you know, in
hindsight, which is what, Yeah, in hindsight it's amazing to see
yeh hota or hota or maybe Maminior Papani.
But Naiki, correct. And I think that it's also that

(44:22):
for our parents, they did what they did with the process.
They had the information, they had the life circumstances and
their own experiences. Yeah.
I think it's harder for this generation of parents because we
have so much access to information.
Yeah, I think we uphold ourselves also a lot more,
right. We also have that sense of, you

(44:45):
know, like what I was saying earlier, if these are my
ideologies, if these are my principles, then what is it that
translates to my child? Yeah.
And also be cognizant that you can't.
You can't sort of envelope your child with everything you are.
You also have to give that little space and room for him to

(45:07):
develop his own sense of self. Yeah, yeah.
So it's a fine balance here, andit comes with its own set of, I
don't know, I used to get a lot of sleepless nights.
I still do. I worry about all these things
quite a bit, yeah. But I think I'm a lot calmer.
I feel like what's right will happen to him.

(45:30):
I might not. I think what I've also embraced
is I'll not. I'll never be 100% right.
I'll never be 100% wrong. Yeah, pretty much know that one
way or the other, my kid might end up in therapy bitching about
me. How do this?
So I'm like, in the moment, whatfeels best, right?
And with the account of information knowledge I have, I

(45:52):
can take a decision. Absolutely.
Yes, Yes, yeah. And let's talk about today,
Lakshmi, where are you right nowin your life journey, not just
as a mother, a partner, but as Lakshmi, what's unfolding for
you? I think it's been an interesting

(46:14):
year. I mean, almost half the year is
over and some days I feel like it's gone by so fast and
sometimes I feel like it's gone by so slow.
I think it's been a bit of challenging for me.
If you're asking me in the now from a health perspective, from
the perspective of a woman who is now, actually, her body is
transforming as I'm entering my 40s.

(46:35):
Again, something that nobody prepares you for.
Yeah. So many things that I'm feeling
these changes in my body, in my head, I'm really feeling like
there is something that my body is going through.
Like it's almost like it's coming out of its own skin to

(46:56):
grow a new skin. And it's a new kind of journey
I'm into. But I have very little access to
resources, information, knowledge to aid me in this
journey, right? And it's been a bit frustrating
for me in that sense because some of the health issues that
are coming up, I just constantlyfeel like, you know, it's been
like these aha moments. I wish somebody had told me

(47:17):
about this when it started or this constant propaganda from
Instagram to everywhere about this pressure of 40 is the new
30. Yeah. 50 is the new 40 that
right? So I don't know.
I think I will more a short sense of self where also I don't

(47:39):
in many ways give two fucks morethan ever in my life.
I'm also feeling like this is the most short sense of self I
am having and feeling in ever. Yeah.
Today, this version of Lakshmi, you know, she does exactly what
she wants to do. She's not doing anything that's

(48:00):
been compulsion because of validation, because of peer
pressure. So I think in many ways that
there's that one free sense of, you know, I'm so sure and in
myself. Yeah.
Despite possibly not being at myfittest, not being at my vanity

(48:22):
by somebody who was very vain and used to seek vanity.
Those are things that kind of, you know, I've taken a softer
view on today. For me, the definition of
quality of life is radically different from what a 29 year
old me would have wanted for me at in the next decade.
Right. So I think in that today I think

(48:46):
I feel beautifully liberated. I feel amazingly confident as a
woman, as a mother, as an artist.
I have a lot of positivity that I carry within me despite my
challenges. Knowing that I don't know.
I think it's this little sense of a shortness that I've grown
into. Yeah, yeah.

(49:08):
Everything has it's own time andplace.
Things happen. I have to allow things to
happen. As much as I like structure and
control and this, sometimes that's not how it unfolds.
Yeah, yeah. Window yeah so I think it's it's
possibly the best version that Ihave kind of edited myself into

(49:31):
and I also really feel like it'sgonna get better from you I.
Mean. I'm actually looking forward to
like, what does the next decade look like for me?
Wow. Because, you know, yeah, because
I'm on this journey, I feel likeof growing, of learning, of
unlearning more than learning, unlearning so much.
Yeah. That I'm actually very excited.

(49:53):
I keep feeling like if this is what if this is who I am to be.
Yeah. And get only like better in
another five years, 10 years because I for sure I can't, I
can't go back. Yeah, yeah.
Right. Yeah.

(50:14):
Any other age, you have lots of options.
You can go back, you can go sideways, you can swerve and
come back to the same spot. But because I'm so short today
of who I am, the journey can only be forward.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you have AI mean since
you are a person of structure, so do you, do you have a typical

(50:34):
day in your life? What does it look like?
Not a typical day for me, but you know, in this year, like I
was saying, I've been facing a lot of challenges with my
health, which has also asked me to reconsider some of these
questions. You know, when something in you

(50:55):
is not working optimally, do youalso then question what is the
point of a lot of things? Right.
Yeah. So I think the motto for this
year has been a lot more of selflove, tightness towards the
self, to learn to flow. You know, at least every morning

(51:16):
I tell myself that, you know, I want to breathe in more faith.
And. To breathe out more fear, let go
of control. And yeah.
So to start my day, how do I start my day?
I usually wake up by around 6:15.
I really like that one hour in my mornings before I wake Ishana

(51:40):
up that I get to myself. So I usually journal.
I read and some of this has become so non negotiable for me.
That's another problem with me. If there's some structure, if I
get good in a little bit, it agitates me.
And that's also something I'm learning to work through.
Yeah, that these things can't have control over me.

(52:01):
Yeah. Right.
The point of these are also tools, and they assist me in my
day, but they can't become larger than me.
Yeah, I have a tendency to do that, to hold on to my sense of
momentum for the day. So I do that.
Then I usually wake up Vishan by7:15 and we get ready for

(52:21):
school. Then we go to school, one of us
between me and Ashwin, one of ususually drops Ishan, so we get
20 minutes in the car with him, which is also amazing because we
also he's very chatty in the morning because he's the
freshest. Then I come back from school and
usually if I have a workout, I do my I'd go directly for a
workout and then I head into thestudio by 9:30.

(52:45):
Yeah. And I'm usually in the studio
all day, almost till four or five, depending on what Ishan
schedule for the day looks like.And then the evenings I keep
free. I really want to like chill with
Ishan for all three of us to have some time together.
So usually by dinner time, whichis early for us because he goes
to bed early, Dinner time is usually between 6:00 and 7:00.

(53:11):
And that's when we all sit and play something.
We play a board game or, you know, now he's in this habit of
reading a lot. He he loves reading.
So now he's obsessed with opening a book, even while
reading. Or we talk about something he's
reading and then one of us againdoes bedtime with him.
Now he's transitioned to his ownroom and his own bed, but he's

(53:33):
still and he can read on his own.
There are some days that he justpicks up a book that he wants to
read and he goes to sleep. And that was also such a
parenting aha moment for us. Yeah.
Because, you know, I think, you know, there are those few
moments in parenting when you look at each other and we go
like, you know, we've done such a great job.
Yeah. No, we actually, and it all

(53:55):
happened so organically. You know, we actually moved
homes and then we, we kind of pumped Ishan up with the idea
that he's going to get his own room and his own room that was
going to be designed a certain way.
And he loves reading in general.So I told him how I'm going to
make his bookshelf so it's more accessible to him before his

(54:16):
bedtime or whenever in the day. But he's taken to it so
beautifully that there are some mornings and weekends when we
sleep in late and we wake up andwe go to his room.
He's just on his bed reading. Oh wow.
What a sight. It's absolutely, you know, those
are those delightful moments when you're like, OK, wow.

(54:37):
And he can be absorbed in a booklike would be or I'm just like,
do you know, even if I fuck up all the other 99 things he ate
taste to Carolina. Yeah.
You. Know the other day I got a
message from this parent, this school mom, you know, she said,
Lakshmi, I just wanted to reach out to tell you that her son was

(54:58):
telling her that something happened in school.
Kids were bullying this kid and it seems only Ashant stood up
for you. Oh, wow.
And she said, I just wanted to reach out and tell you because
I'm so grateful that you know, my son has a friend like this
who could stand up for him. Wow.

(55:20):
I remember forwarding it to Ashwin and saying that what an
amazing boy we have raised because it's in these little
things, you know, I don't care honestly about the rest, like
whether he's going to be great academically in sports and
activities. But these little traits which
are, you know, those formative character building traits.

(55:42):
Yeah. When you see that, when you
watch that and when other peopletell you, yeah, yeah, it's just
so heart warming because that's when you're like, OK, something
you've done right on this journey, you know, some parts of
it feel like, because again, forme, unlike any other process,

(56:02):
there is no input and feedback mechanism.
Me feedback on Cup 18 to Mille, yeah, Mille giving me right.
I used to keep chasing that. Like, how do I know that I'm
doing a good job? Like I wanted some sort of
validation and there is none. Yeah.
Even if you kind of in some illusion when belief there is,

(56:24):
there's actually none. But.
Little things come your way or you watch something and you're
like, oh, that's, that's probably a little tiny seed that
I sowed so early. How beautiful.
And now you can see it kind of get formed, then form it's
flowers and it's and it's reallybeautiful.
Yeah, yeah. So then, yeah, sorry.

(56:47):
I keep digressing a lot. So coming back to the day, then
we do bedtime, and our bedtime ritual is also beautiful.
We usually read two books, and then Ishan has something that he
calls a mouth story, because thestory comes out of your mouth.
It's not. A book.
So it's two books that we read. 1 mouth story.
Then we chat a little. Then I usually do manifestations

(57:09):
with him. OK, now that he's getting older
like he gets really irritated about and I try and tell him we
we're going to say something newtoday.
Some days, you know, he'll do itfor me, I'll do it for him and
he'll say the most amazing things.
OK, it's it's, it's just too cute and beautiful.
And then we do something called one thing I noticed today.

(57:33):
So he has to tell me one thing and I also have to say, OK,
anything. It could be anything under the
sun. And I think I started that
practice for myself in my journal.
When I journal, usually at night, I also do a nighttime
journal just before like a gratitude journal.
I usually had set in this exercise for myself.

(57:54):
Yeah. About one thing I noticed today,
it means I also felt like at some point that because of all
the chaos of the outside world, also I feel like in a busy city
like Bombay, you also stop seeing and looking, observing.
So I kind of wanted to force myself to pay a little more
attention so as to do this one thing I noticed.

(58:17):
And then I started doing it withIshan very early.
Some of his answers are so amazingly amazing because what
he notices in the day, it also brings your attention to how
some of those things are so obvious to you.
Yeah, but for a little child, you know, those things just are

(58:39):
big momentous things in his life.
Give us give us some examples. I'm also in a major green fog.
I may have because I don't know of age, but I'm trying to think
there are some days that I just sit up and go like, wow, you
know, what did he tell me two days back?

(59:00):
He told me about the flowers that now the new place that
we've moved to, you know, it's like this ground floor house
that the porch outside, there's a lot more green.
So he told me how in the summersthere are three different kinds
of plants that have flowered. Wow.
And I hadn't actually noticed. And I noticed A and I noticed a

(59:22):
lot. I mean, maybe because of my
profession. Yeah.
Because of the visuals that I engage in.
I'm. I'm visually quite aware and I
absorb a lot more than a normal person.
But this boy absorbs more than me.
And that I realized very early on, you know, like, he could go
into a room and he would pick upsome obscure camera in some

(59:44):
corner of the room that my eye would not have noticed.
Or he would come back and Draw Something about that room and
talk to me about it. And you know, like get some
specific detail of the architecture which I'd missed.
Yeah. And that's when I realized he
has his amazing eye for these things.
Yeah. And I kind of wanted to keep
that alive and cultivate it. Yeah.

(01:00:06):
So that's when I started doing this with him.
And now it's been so many years.He'll say lots of funny things.
Some days he'll be like, every day you tell me to say I'm
brave. What if I don't feel like I'm
brave? So I said, OK, fair.
He said, yeah, because the truthis today I didn't feel brave.
I said, OK, so then tell me, youknow, like I'm also trying to

(01:00:29):
teach him the manifestation is not specifically for what we
felt today. Yeah, it's what we want to feel.
Yeah. So sometimes it's a joke.
He'll just come to me and then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I'm curious. I'm brave.
I am strong, happy. And I'll be like, OK, that works
for today. And then there are other days
that he'll think about it and he'll be like, I'm brave about

(01:00:52):
school even though I don't like school or, you know, like he put
thought to it. He'll assimilate things that
he's noticed what we've told himand kind of come into the
conversation. But he's always been this super
curious little child, you know, like I remember because you're
asking me an example. You know that book about the

(01:01:12):
Caterpillar by Eric Carle? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. I remember when he was three, I
think we used to, he used to love that book.
Like, I think it's true. And then by 3000, he would have
heard that story a lot. And one day he asked me that,
you know, Mama, why do you thinkthis Caterpillar feels like he

(01:01:34):
has to become a butterfly? Why is he not happy being just a
Cat Caterpillar? Wow.
You know that question just blewme because in the moment I I
could have mouthed the answers in 1000.
Ways, yeah, and I just. Paused because I was like, you
know, the process of how he kindof come up with that question.

(01:01:57):
Then he followed it up and he said like you've told me that
it's OK to be whoever you are and you should be happy about
it. But why does Caterpillar feel
like it has to be a butterfly that's more beautiful and
colourful? So why he just be happy being a
Caterpillar? Wow.
Yeah, and I was also like, wow, where?
What is this thought process andwhere does this come from?

(01:02:20):
So he's always been that curiousthinker also maybe because of
what he's been exposed to since being a child.
You know, he spends a lot of time in the studio.
Yeah. Understands that art as a medium
of expression is not just the how of the expression.
There's a lot of thought to the wife.
Yeah. So he's I think in his own.

(01:02:45):
I don't I don't think I've like we've done so much like me and
Ashwin keep talking about it like, you know, this reading,
I'm sure he sees us reading. You know, both of us do read a
fair bit. He sees that.
I know when he comes to the studio.
He sees that how in preparing for a work in my studio is
filled and filled with books. We extend that today he picks up

(01:03:09):
some of those big books or to it.
Maybe he can't understand everything.
But yeah, because I am reading it or it's on my table or maybe
looks at pictures and I allow for that.
Whatever you take in at that point he get.
He's also spent a lot of time inmuseums and galleries.
So I think he has a certain way of how he processes and looks at
the world. And I feel that for me as a

(01:03:32):
mother, as an artist, I want to inculcate or continue that.
Yeah. So we're we're playing these
little games and things. And he always has a sketchpad.
You know, I'll give him these little themes.
Like yesterday we were going in the car somewhere.
So he's like, give me a theme. And I said hope.
So it could on some days be as basic as he drew a cookie.

(01:03:54):
And he said, my hope is I get that cookie or, you know, some
of his artworks. I look at it and I'm just blown.
And I'm like, that's amazing that a four year old, A5 year
old, a six year old could think about it and do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there are a lot of times
from school I also get, you know, complaints about how what
he draws is completely differentfrom what the rest of class

(01:04:16):
does. But I'm always amazed.
I look at the teacher and I was like, wow, did he do that?
You should celebrate him. Yeah, because it's, it's mind
blowing that he thought about it.
Yeah. So I think for me and Ashwin,
you know what? We both celebrated him
wholeheartedly. Yeah, Yeah, maybe some of it.

(01:04:36):
Like I'm saying, we keep wondering, K, maybe every other
kid does it could be they do it better.
But for us in the moment, it's like amazing.
You're amazing. You're great and we kind of
boost his confidence like that. Yeah.
Or you know, the other day for Mother's Day, he gave me a card
and I didn't realise that why he'd written what he'd written.

(01:04:57):
So anyway, for every card he gives me, he kind of understands
that I the textile that I workedwith in my practice is the
cassava, which comes from Kerala.
He's understood that it's a certain gold and white.
So every card theme is always gold and white.
I think. That gold border, so it's so
cute. Every card will have that
because he thinks I'm obsessed with this material I have worked

(01:05:17):
with, which maybe I am. But anyway, he wanted to write
adjectives for me. So the adjectives were for L He
was trying to spell out Lakshmi and then write an adjective for
each. So for L he wrote Luminescence.
Oh. So I am again blown.
I was like, I don't, I don't think I knew this word till 10

(01:05:41):
years back. Yeah, on text or what?
To use it then I'm like, he musthave heard it.
Someone written it. So yeah, I asked him that, you
know, baby, what does his word mean?
So he said, though shiny sparklyjust said, you are.
And again, I was like, you know,these are those few moments when

(01:06:03):
you just stop and you're like, this is all that it comes to or
comes down to and and you don't need anything more.
You don't need anything less. And it's a beautiful cardio like
she's done L for luminescence, Afor amusing, K for kind, S for
strong, H for helpful. OK, M for I'm forgetting.

(01:06:26):
What did he write M for and I thought, inspiring?
And. I told him that night, I said,
you know what, baby, I don't need to do any more
manifestations because everything you've written for
me, if I just say that every day, that is, that is more than
enough because you've given me the best adjectives and he's
just learning about adjectives. So now he has that game.

(01:06:49):
He's like, no, you can't say those.
You can't copy those. But I've actually put it up in
my studio, right where I can seeit because I feel like, you
know, when I read that, it was also like, I was thinking, this
is another human being who looksat me with such pure eyes.
Yeah. You know, I am so jaded about

(01:07:10):
myself, and I don't think I would put those adjectives for
myself. Actually, it took in my own
gratitude journey, Lord affirmation.
It's taken me a long journey to associate myself with these
words. Yeah, but there's this other
little bee who sees you every day and at your worst, at your
best, at your worstest worst. And if he still thinks this

(01:07:33):
about you, you're doing something right.
Yeah. You're upholding his world in
some way, right? Yeah.
So it was also so heart warming because I was like, this is how
he sees me. Yeah.
And then there's me, and there is how I see me, which is such a
small reduced version of that. Yeah.

(01:07:54):
So it's so sad that that's what I do to myself, you know, having
a conversation with myself and Iwas like, it's so amazing and
it's so wholehearted and the largeness of his, of how he
views me. Yeah, yeah.
And I don't think any other human, like, not even, I mean,

(01:08:14):
no other human in my life would have looked at me like this,
right? Or expressed it like this.
So I am always like, you know, Ithis little boy of mine being so
much sunshine in so many different ways.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and I didn't realize that he tried to spell Lakshmi.
I thought he had put random adjectives so I can you.

(01:08:36):
He said, no, Mama, it's your full name.
And against your name I put 1 adjective.
I said, ah, OK, that makes sense.
And then I went back to it because I was like, how did he
come up with these exact whatever his process was?
Yeah, but I'm always sort of unraveling all of his more than
the output, his process. How does he think?

(01:08:56):
And I think maybe it also comes from me being an artist.
Yeah, yeah. I always say which are the sort
of process in life gives you another set of eyes.
Yeah. For me, having a baby and watch
him grow was literally having the privilege of being given
another set of eyes. Yeah.

(01:09:17):
Because the truth is your eyes kind of get jaded in a certain
way. You're blindsided to a lot of
things. How you view, how you see the
world. You know, you get in a lot of
blinders or you get in a lot of your own subjectivity and you
can't even see it. Yeah, yeah.
And for an artist who's always trying to chase what you can't

(01:09:38):
see, I don't think any other experience in my life could have
given me that. It was only because I had a
child and through his eyes I waswatching him view the world.
I could view the world again. Yeah.
How beautiful is that? I'm getting goosebumps, you
know, and Lakshmi, I'm very interested in, you know, in so

(01:10:00):
many things that you've spoken about.
How has having Ishan aided or helped you in your creative
process as an artist? Because you talked about the
second set of eyes, you talk about a new perspective, you
talk about so many things. Is is there something that you

(01:10:22):
know that you carry from his life, from his way of looking at
things into your artistic process?
Absolutely, absolutely. I think the last few years
journey, there's a, there's a dramatic shift in my process and
I think that's really because inmany ways it's, it's the input,

(01:10:44):
it's the conversation of how I am looking at the world through
these unfiltered eyes. Yeah.
And I can see that in my work, Ican see that in my process, I
can see that in my being. You know, some I said earlier,
my journey into also becoming who I am today was in many ways
a transformative process only possible because of motherhood.

(01:11:09):
Because nothing shakes you that much into wanting to do better
for yourself. Yeah.
You know, most other times in life you can passively live and
be like KR with your partner, inyour marriage, in your with your
with your family. You can be like, maybe you take
it or leave it, right? Yeah.

(01:11:30):
Create motivation for another human being to change, to look
at what they're seeing. But I think for me, at least
personally, once I became a mother, I knew there were a lot
of red flags in general in my personality, the way I kind of
dealt with the world. But it was not urgent enough for
me to do anything about, Yeah, Isuppose becoming a mother.

(01:11:52):
I really wanted to, you know, like, I see that today, those
adjectives he says for me, I truly want to embody that for
him. Yeah.
So I think it's definitely been,for me, such a huge part of who
I am today as an artist. I carry forth a lot of the
conversations that I have with Ishan, a lot of what we

(01:12:13):
discussed at night. You know, there's one thing I
noticed today and his manifestations and the little
chatter he brings from his worldbecause it's really a peek for
me into the unknown, which I can't manifest for myself.
And however much I try as an artist to quieten my head, it's

(01:12:34):
it's it's not very easy to access.
Yeah. But I think when when, at least
for me, I had a child, it openedthose spaces up a lot more.
It also put the urgency on me for me wanting to know myself
better, hence heal myself, hencebe a better version of myself,

(01:12:55):
hence be more raw, authentic with myself.
Yeah, hence have a lot more fulfilled creative output.
How beautiful, how beautiful is that?
And and we are coming to a closeof this conversation.
Lakshmi, however much I want to keep talking to you, I am also
aware of your health. And tell me, if Ishan listens to

(01:13:17):
this episode 20 years from now, 15 years from now, what would
you want him to hear or take away about you?
About me, I think I want him to remember his Mama as this woman
who loved life, who enjoyed life, who knew how to have fun,

(01:13:44):
how to flow into a lot of experiences and really Remember
Me, I think as this person who truly lived her life.
Yeah. And I think that comes also from
a place where I've always feel like I think about my mother and
I think about my grandmother, and I think about a lot of it

(01:14:07):
is, you know, I think there's somuch regret.
Yeah. And I was very conscious and
clear. I don't want to be that and I
don't want to be that for him asa symbol.
Yeah. I want him to Remember Me as in
whatever capacity I lived, I rode, I celebrated and I went

(01:14:32):
out with a bang. Yeah.
Yeah. And finally, for my last
question, if you had to leave our listeners with one truth,
one insight that holds you steady in the middle of it all,
what would that be? I think it has to come from

(01:14:57):
being really honest to yourself.I think there has to be an
intent to honestly want to know yourself, to travel inwards, to
understand what comprises you asyou.
Because once you know that for yourself, then nothing around

(01:15:23):
you. No variable, no no earth
foreskin shake and take that away from you.
Yeah. So I think that a lot of us,
you're not very confused, lost because we don't really know who
we are and we've never committedto that process.

(01:15:43):
Yeah. Also, it's scary, it's
challenging, it's a lot of work.It's not easy, but I think if
you have a very assured sense ofself and that sense of self will
look very, very different for two people, right?
It's, it's, we're just these unique beings that are made

(01:16:06):
like, but if you're assured in that sense of self, then really
anything that we've spoken about, whether it's marriage,
whether it's parental, whether it's aging, whether it's
transforming, it all becomes a lot more easier, you know,
because then there is no, there are no two fights.

(01:16:28):
Yeah. You know, otherwise you're
fighting yourself and the world.Yeah, at least you're apnea.
AAP SE hamjo DROs jagra karte. Yeah.
You know, this is my journey. This is who I am.
And I accept this. And, and, and the fox can be
many to heal from you. I want to transform from you.

(01:16:52):
But this is my pattern. I want to unlearn it.
And I think you have to start from that point, which I felt
like I arrived very late. So for a long part of my adult
years. And, you know, there was so much
chaos. There was so much confusion,
there was so much anger. There was so much guilt because

(01:17:13):
I didn't know who I am because Ididn't know who I am.
It's exhausting to also be in a fight with yourself everyday.
Yeah. So like to answer that earlier
question of yours also, you know, today I'm freed of a lot
of those shackles. This is in a short sense of this
is who I am, and I have a lot ofshortfalls and I have a lot of

(01:17:35):
things that, you know, I don't live up to is to uphold myself
in a larger way. But at least I'm aware that this
is where I am in this point of time today.
Yeah. And nobody can take that away
from me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think if there's one thing I would leave listeners with

(01:17:57):
would be that I guess I think invest a little in yourself is
that I know there's a lot of those Instagram, Instagram areas
about be friends with yourself and, you know, solo trips and I
don't know, very capitalized, yeah, versions of it.
But I'm trying to give you a more spiritual version of it,

(01:18:19):
which is that you really have toknow how to be able to be
friends with yourself. Yeah.
Your truest self. You know, the dark parts, the
unhealed parts, the childhood parts, the fun parts.
Yeah, there are so many parts ofyou, right?
But we've never been able to synthesize it or even

(01:18:41):
compartmentalize it and say thatit's OK for all of these parts
of me to exist. And this is this is what makes
me me. Yeah, yeah.
And and we didn't get very lost,especially in some of these
journeys and not prioritizing ourselves.
Yeah. Parenting is exhausting in its
own way, but whatever is your little bits that you do in a day

(01:19:05):
to preserve your sense of identity, this is who I am.
This is what I do selfishly. So it'd be just for me.
Yeah. Because, you know, it's like
that flight rule. You can't make the oxygen mask
for yourself. You can't.
And I think the whole unit benefits, you know, to some of

(01:19:25):
what you were asking me because I went on a journey of trying to
find who I am. Yeah.
Merge for me at the other end was that there was a huge energy
shift in me. Yes.
That energy shift in me changed the energy in my home.
That changed the energy in me asa mother, as a wife, and in many
ways transformed my unit itself.Yeah, yeah.

(01:19:48):
So I think there is, there's a lot of power to that.
How I really seem like some big spiritual leadership.
No, but. We should.
We should, you know, give you a name.
No, yeah, no, I don't want to sound like those Instagram

(01:20:11):
obsessed self gurus, but Long story short, I'm just saying
that, you know, if if you don't know who you are, then you don't
know who you want to be in the world.
Yeah, right. And then then everything is kind
of difficult in it's own. Well, I think even for me as a

(01:20:34):
mother, as a parent with Ishan, I think it's really important
for me to instill that in. Him, yeah.
So some of a lot of what I was telling you, conversations, what
we do, rituals, books that we read, it's really to guide him
into that. You know, the world is going to
tell you a million things. Yeah.
And especially now that he's 6 1/2, I can see that.

(01:20:57):
Yeah. You know, labels and what kind
of person is he shall labels that come from his teachers,
from his friends, things that his friends are telling him,
peer pressure. I think my attempt and intent
with him always is that you know, you can be as unique as
you are. Know that this is who I am.

(01:21:18):
Yeah. And have this strength to be
able to walk that line and to defend it right.
Because I keep telling him we asparents are going to always
support you, but you have to have that firm belief and that
takes work in multiple. So you're not just to end also,

(01:21:39):
I'll give you an example. We also as parents do so many
classes, you know, back-to-back because we're so busy.
So we think better than having to think about how will I
meaningfully engage him every evening inside class.
And I've also done it. Yeah, like last year, both me
and Ashwin are like, what are wedoing?
We've over scheduled this child and he was genuinely getting

(01:22:00):
wiped out. But I think as a child, because
he's a little aware, you know, he had the words to come and
tell us, like, I don't want to do so much.
I don't like this, this, this. I don't want to do this in a
week. I want to do this.
And then we all sat down as a family and we said, OK, we'll
commit to a few things. We'll come to that for the year.
Yeah. You can't just flip in and out.

(01:22:20):
Yeah. And I think to to give an
example, so something to do withsome gymnastics.
He was doing capoeira and he'd been doing that for a long time.
And then like all children and like all adults, we have days
I'm feeling lazy, I'm feeling bad, I'm tired.
It's been a long day. But you know what I always leave

(01:22:42):
him with? And I'm not gonna let you quit
on a bad, bad day. You come to me on your best day
and you tell me, Mama, I don't feel like doing basketball.
I don't feel like doing capoeira.
I'll be okay. But this can't be a process
where you commit and then you come out as and when you feel
like. Because I think for me as a

(01:23:02):
parent, these are also some questions like how do I build
the resilience muscle? Yeah.
How do I build the integrity of character muscle?
What is it that in my FTV, what are the conversations we are
having? What is it that we are both
like, I can hold space for both of us that he can like told you,
he'll tell me when I have a double sided take on things.

(01:23:23):
Yeah, right. And also pull me up for those
things. Absolutely.
But yeah, yeah. So I think that they also
respect of both ways what happens.
So yeah, I don't know if I answered your question.
No, you did. You did.
Lakshmi. Lakshmi, thank you so much.
Thank you, this was my pleasure.No, but that after multiple

(01:23:47):
cancellations we could do it. Yes.
And thank you for showing up with this kind of softness, this
clarity and the kind of reflective energy that you have.
I think, I think I am taking away so much from our
conversation and I'm sure our listeners are too.
Thank you for doing this with us.

(01:24:09):
Thank you so much, Mia. And to our dear listeners, thank
you for sharing space with us today.
If this conversation resonated, please do share it with someone
who might need to hear it. Subscribe to Parenthood wherever
you get your podcasts and leave us a review.
Remember, parenting isn't about getting it all right, It's about

(01:24:31):
staying present, holding space for growth in your child and in
yourself. Until next time, this is Neha
Garg, sending you love, breath, and a reminder that you are not
alone. Bye bye.

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